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Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/20 13:19:21


Post by: Jidmah


Are you a new player? There is no need to read the entire thread! Just jump to the last page and ask away!

If you have things you think should be added to this post, PM me.

"Live off da land.
Go ta find war.
Kill wot comes close.
Da old wayz iz best."


I know, us orks don't like rules, but a couple of things should be said before starting:
- This is supposed to be about actively trying to win games. I know there are a lot of players who just want to toss some dice, watch their beautiful converted models, re-enact battles from the fluff and don't really care about who wins the game. You are all awesome people, but sorry, this thread isn't for you :(
- It's safe to assume that the vast majority of games will be using the newest FAQs, points, matched play and any current beta rules. Please don't base tactics on not using the most recent rule set.
- If you are looking for crusade advice, specifically say so. Unless stated otherwise it is assumed that current Grand Tournament mission pack is used to play.
- Keep in mind that not everybody has access to forgeworld models or rules.
- Legend rules aren't allowed everywhere.
- Be clear about whether you are discussing army composition (looking for the best options), or whether you simply want to use a unit in an efficient way, even if it's not the best choice.
- Clarify whether you are discussing regular Matched Play or Tournament rules where it matters.
- There are communities and tournaments that do not allow certain things. The people looking for advice here cannot change that, so accept that they have to work around those limitations.
- Do not discuss GW's business practices in this thread.
- Do not discuss the number of releases other armies get in this thread. Especially not beakies.
- It is fine to agree to disagree.
- Back up your arguments.
- Provide links to blogs/videos/podcasts you are referencing
- If you need help with list-building, provide us with a list of models you have available
- Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya
- Lists not in spoilers are to be responded with a krumpin of the poster
- Orks never lose.
- WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!


Eternal Boss Pole:
Thanks to the these awesome gits for providing content:

the_scrotsman
PiñaColada
hollow one
Waaaghbert
Emicrania
flandarz
An Actual Englishman
Grotrebel



Complete list of ork rules:
(Last update: 2022-03-13)
Spoiler:
Codex: Orks 2021
Relevant rules: Datasheets, Stratagems, Cultures, Relics, Psychic Powers, Warlord Traits

Imperial Armour Compendium (optional)
Relevant rules: Warboss on Warbike, Mek Boss Buzzgob, Grot Tank, Grot Mega-tank, Nobz on Warbikes, Mega Dread, Meka Dread, Big Trakk, Squiggoth, Gargantuan Squiggoth, Kustom Stompa, Kill Tank, Kannonwagon

War Zone Octarius: Book 2 - Critical Mass (optional)
Relevant rules: Speed Mob Army of Renown, Blood Axes Supplement, Looted vehicles (open play rules)

Warhammer Legends (optional)
Relevant rules: Da Red Gobbo, Big Mek on Warbike, Painboy on Warbike, Big Guns
Link: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/7661dd41.pdf

Forgewold Legends (optional)
Relevant rules: Zhadsnark da Ripper, Grot Bomm Launcha, Lifta Wagon, Attack Fighta, Fighta-Bommer, Chinork Warkopta, Deff Rolla Battle Fortress, Kill Krusha
Link: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/ROlabv2jfo8uNWLJ.pdf

What do you really need out of all those to play orks?
1) Codex: Orks, because all the rules are in there. Dat's it.


Odd, difficult and messed up rules, aka the "talk to your opponent first"-list:
(Last update: 2022-03-13)

1) The big 'ead boss bunker can be tellyported, but has to be 3" from other terrain pieces
2) The big 'ead boss bunker cannot move using the careen stratagem because models with movement speed "-" cannot move for any reason.
3) NOB and NOBZ is the same keyword according to the keyword plural rules. Therefore MANz can be trukkboyz.
4) Kustom jobs and specialist mobs CAN be used on models in SUPER-HEAVY AUXILIARY DETACHMENT or SUPER-HEAVY DETACHMENT if there is another ork detachment in your army.
5) When you make battlewagon specialst mobs, they lose the ability to transport <CLAN> models. When you make characters specialist mobs, their auras will not affect <CLAN> models anymore.
6) There are no BEAST SNAGGA MONSTER units that could be targeted by the "Tough as a Squig-Hide" stratagem. Possible meant to say BEAST SNAGGA VEHICLE, but unclear.
7) The Red Rolla kustom job adds extra attacks "until that fight is resolved", which isn't really a defined term. Most likely meant to say until the end of the fight phase.
8) The interaction between the Beastboss on Squigosaur's jaws and the Brutal but Kunnin' warlord trait is unclear, but it is likely that chomps triggering mortal wounds should not cause extra attacks.
9) The goff kultur causes extra HITS on sixes, so it is not limited by the "no more than X attacks can be made with this weapon" wording. You get a second hit with the same weapon that made the original attack.
10) The blood axe warlord trait is done at the end of the "Deploy Forces" step, which can be find in the mission pack you are playing. For matched play, this is before you know who is going first.
11) The freebootas kulture gives +1 to hit for each unit you kill. Keep in mind that even if you trigger the kulture ten times, you can never modify a hit roll by more than +1. You can keep those eldar fliers from dodging though.
12) A unit of trukk boyz would confers +1 to hit to its trukk, which in turn would confer that modifier back to the trukk boyz and any other model on board of that transport (SAG, MA big mek).
13) Beast snaggas inside a beast snagga transport would get the hit bonus versus vehicles and monsters twice.
14) It is not clear if INFANTRY inside of transports would benefit from the Speedwaaagh! AP bonus.
15) The dedskull banner seems to be an aura, but is not flagged as such

If you disagree with any of these interpretations, please discuss them in the YMDC subforum or shoot me a message to a relevant discussion.


Color legend:
Green Tier - These are great and perform well as long as you include them in a coherent army.
Cyan Tier - These are great in the right army, but they will not work an army that does not support them.
Blue Tier - These do what they are supposed to do, but aren't the most competitive options for their roles.
Yellow Tier - These do work in general but either cost too much for what they do or lock you out of bringing much better choices.
Red Tier - There is no point in bringing these, fielding them will actively reduce your chances of winning.


Unit analysis:
(Last update: 2021-08-17)

Beastboss on Squigosaur The biggest, meanest ork in town riding a T-Rex. The ability to take relics and traits that make him extremely tanky and the jaws of the squig make him good against pretty much anything.
Big Mek in Mega Armour With BS4+ and the ded shiney shoota, you have a rather decent shooty HQ at your hands which can either carry a KFF to burn or the vastly improved tellyporta blasta to get up close and personal. Our best HQ that can't call a Waaagh!. Grot oiler is a waste of points.
Burnas Finally having gotten actual flamers, they can benefit from the pyromaniacs specialist mob to get insane number of average shots that make shoota boyz look like gretchin. If they ever manage to get in combat, you can now pay CP to get their cutter AP-2 back.
Kommandos For just one extra point over boyz, you get the ability to infiltrate, +2 to armor when in cover for a 3+ save and +1 to wound when touching terrain. If you have 10 or more of these, you also can also specialize them for melee or range. Make sure to focus your unit.
Megatrakk Skrapjet Tons of rokkit shots make it great for vehicle hunting that also brings a decent close combat weapon and four big shootas.
Ruckatrukk Squigbuggy After a complete rework for the launchers, a new mine and better saws the squig buggy is actually one of the best models in the codex. Even in larger units, they can just hide out of sight and lob angry squigs across the board.
Warbikes Smoke cloud is back! In addition, they went up by one wound, have better guns and advance faster. A great unit for grabbing objectives which are difficult to remove.

Mad Dok Grotsnik Finally free of his deff skulls clan lock, he is as durable as a warboss that provides models around him with a 6+++. A great addition for any infantry-focused list.
Mozgrod Skragbad A more powerful, yet more expensive version of the squigosaur boss. While he gets a lot for the extra points you pay, you often don't want to spend that many points on an HQ. Being locked into Snakebites is not a huge drawback.
Deffkilla Wartrike Finally having gotten a 5++, the claw no longer leaving one in three marines alive and standard 12" range on its weapons, it's actually fairly decent right now. However, the biggest selling point is the ability to call a Speed Waaagh! though, which is very valuable in vehicle-centric lists. It can also benefit from a number of clan specific relics and warlord traits.
Warboss in Mega Armour With access to great relics and warlord traits, you can turn this warboss into a brawler that can take on anything but the most powerful combat experts. The 'uge choppa is no killa klaw, but still a decent weapon to crush elite infantry. Having a gun with a realistic chance of hitting stuff also isn't terrible.
Boomdakka Snazzwagon It's main gun has been upgraded to do 2 damage per shot, which changes everything. Good against any kind of infantry, cheap and rather durable, it is only outdone by even better buggies.
Kustom Boosta-Blasta The KBB combines a reliable anti-chaff tool with a solid elite/light armor hunting weapon and a mortal wound ram ability for a discount price.
Shokkjump Dragsta Good, reliable anti-tank firepower. The loss of their stratagems makes them less flexible and bigger units make deep striking not as easy as it was before.
Squighog Boyz Essentially these are warbikers with less shooting but better melee. With the help of stratagems and the goff or snakebite culture, these can punch way above their weight class and deal massive damage to vehicles and monsters. Sadly, they die easily.
Stormboyz Essentially fill the same role as kommandoz, but are slightly more mobile and flexible. They still die to a stiff breeze, so often the extra points spent over kommandoz don't pay off.
Deffkopta Many wounds, FLY, at least six attacks and dual rokkits each make them quite powerful for any flanking job. There isn't much reason to pay points to side-grade two rokkits into a KMB and bomb.
Battlewagon Multi-functional transport that can transport up to 20 shooty models, a unit of MANz and/or some boyz into battle. For unknown reason it's a lot cheaper than the specialist versions Battlewagons should always be run along with other vehicles. If you are transporting valuable targets, make sure to buy the fortress kustom job.
Deff Dreads Tellyport them in to attack a vulnerable part of your enemy's army, two often fit better than three. For shooting the KMB is the vastly better option over the rokkit, skorchas are an option if you need anti-horde options.
Kill Rig Psychic main battle tank that has similar melee of deff rolla wagon, the shooting of a gunwagon and comes with a free wurrboy stuck to it for a similiar price as a fully decked out battlewagon. It can also transport models, but no one cares.
Mek guns Mek guns have taken a hit with lower unit sizes and no longer being able to split up makes them vulnerable to their terrible ld. They still provide good shooting with KMK once again being the best choice, with the other three closely behind. If you are feeling lucky, even the bubblechukka has become a decent choice now.
Dakkajet Good against anything that's not well armored, always buy the extra shootas. Can be useful for assassinating characters, as it can jump next to them and unload its guns on them. It's the best unit for the moar dakka kustom job, but it still only serves as a point sink, spending points on other units will likely be better.
Blitza-Bommer If you miss flying 'eadbut, this bommer brings two of them. The bombs are great against any elite MSU army.
Wazbom Blastajet Not only did it get to keep its 5++ KFF (only for AIRCRAFT now though), it also went to BS4+ and the guns now deal tons of damage. No vehicle is safe from this looted doomsday cannon.
Trukk Trukk boyz are actually a fairly decent choice for troops, and both lootas and burnas might be potential passengers. The improved big shoota is welcomed, but nothing to write home about.
Warboss on Warbike (FW) Fast model that can carry the killa klaw.
Kannonwagon (FW) Great gun and improved BS combined with insane range. Ork don't have many good weapons with 3 damage, and this fills the niche nicely.
Kill Tank (FW) Low cost, decent shooting, high durabilty, but no culture and CP costs for running them.

Ghazkgull Thrakka He can wreck pretty much anything in combat and can call both kinds of Waaagh! at once for a questionable benefit. He still hard to kill, but can no longer be healed in any way and the goff horde from the old codex is no longer as powerful as it used to be.
Kaptin Badrukk Great shooty HQ that can fit in with any list, even better if he has some flash gits to buff. He is fairly durable and can call a Waaagh! if you don't want another warboss in a freeboota army.
Snikrot Used similar to kommandoz or MANz, he beats enemy units off objectives and then stays there, near impossible to remove without dedicated shooting. He still suffers from being locked into blood axes, but at least he can be fielded in addition to another warboss or speedboss.
Makari 2++ save, a 6+ FNP aura and the ability to tag along with Thrakka make him decent addition to goff armies. With all other support characters getting a kick in the nutz, he is actually a decent choice if you are bringing Thrakka.
Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun The SAG is a powerful long-range weapon. You need multiples to get any mileage out of them, and they are a bit overpriced.
Warboss Looking for a mediocre warboss that's neither good nor bad at anything? This is your guy. Dead tough gives him a better fighting chance against many things, but he still needs to get there.
Weirdboy No longer gets a cast bonus and has to be near 20 orks to cast a second power. This makes casting da jump a lot less reliable now and he can no longer jump himself, but most other powers got better. He doesn't fit well with fast lists, and slow footsloggers are rather bad now.
Wurrboy It's discipline is mostly about dealing damage at close range and buffing beast snaggas. It needs 20 orks nearby to cast a second power and has a low range shooting attack. It would be a decent support an army focusing on many footslogging orks.
Mega Armoured Nobz MANz are great for taking and holding objectives, and with the "Hit 'em harder" stratagem not even a knight is safe from them. Killsaws are fairly expensive now, so PK and kustom shootas are probably the better alternative. Can be trukkboyz.
Nob on Smasha Squig Decent and cheap melee character that deals a lot of mortal wounds and doesn't take up a slot. It does give your opponent assassinate points, so be aware.
Banner Nob Not locked into CORE and does not count as a warboss for the one per detachment limit. A valuable asset for any walker list, as none of them are CORE.
Boyz Slow, die easily, mediocre damage, vulnerable to morale and 9 points because it's 9th edition. At least choppas get AP-1 which makes them better than shoota boyz. You can turn them into trukk boyz though, which allows to disembark and charge after the trukk moved. Outside of that, they aren't too hot unless fielded as goff.
Flash Gitz Awesome guns that lay waste to light infantry, elite infantry, light vehicles and anything else that's not T7 or higher, decent armor saves, good combat ability and a good stratagem. Sadly, they are a bit too expensive.
Killa Kanz Twice as many rokkits for twice the price. They also are back to hitting on 4+ in combat again and can be targeted by stratagems (whatever that is worth), so at least they can do what they are supposed to do again. Morale can screw them over, so be careful with big units.
Lootas Lootas can now move and shoot, get a guaranteed two shots plus another one at half range but have to take mandatory spannas per 5. This allows them to rider transports without losing firepower, which they definitely should because they still die like flies despite T5.
Gorkanaut All its guns were improved and despite the loss of one attack, it's more deadly in combat. It cannot have a culture in SHA, but you can give it the Big Krumaz specialist mob instead. The tellyporta and ramming speed combo still works.
Burna Bommer In addition to fairly decent shooting, its bombs have been changed to drop old school blasts, which is fairly unique. Right now there is no real need for such a thing, but most horde armies haven't had their new codices yet. Skorcha missiles are a way to sink your last few points, but not awesome. The pyromaniacs special mob is wasted on the bommer.
Big'ed Bossbunka Paired with the tellyporta stratagem, this essentially becomes an ork drop pod for stuff like flash gits, tank bustas or lootas. Sadly the terrible 3" rule for setting up fortifications this from actually being good, but YMMV depending on how your tables look.

Zaggstruk Slightly improved as he can use his vulcha claws for all his attacks, the better goff trait and his morale mitigation rules. For his point costs and just 2 damage per attack he still doesn't compare well to other bosses.
Beastboss A beast-snagga specific warboss variant that faces the problem of not getting access to the killa klaw, not having a squigosaur and beast snaggas not being that awesome in the first place.
Painboss A faster pain boy with slightly better melee weapons, but can only heal beast snaggas and warbikes (wat?). Yet, he isn't fast enough to keep up with squigs or bikes and too expensive to be considered a budget HQ option.
Nobz Despite not being terrible, Nobz struggle to find a place between MANz and boyz. Big choppas are the only weapon option not horrible overcosted. Equipping multiple combi weapons cost too much for what you get. Can also be trukkboyz.
Painboy Too expensive for the 6+++ he provides, but his mandatory PK sometimes kills something.
Tankbustas Powerful but fragile unit that tends to be dead as soon as your opponent can shoot them. A unit that has 24" range but wants to stand still doesn't work too well, though they are still decent at taking out vehicles, but not at much else. Both tank hammers and rokkit pistols should be avoided.
Beast Snagga Boyz The upgrade they get over regular boyz is totally worth 2 points, but boyz weren't worth it to begin with. Without being able to become trukk boyz, beast snaggas are just a unit that is too expensive to be used as tax.
Gretchin Terrible overcosted unit without objective secured, horrible morale, extra losses from attrition and no offensive output. The only value is that they can perform actions on a home objective, and when used as such should definitely be upgraded to 'orrible gits.
Bonebreaker The bonebreaker is powerful in melee and can transport units. The high price is not worth the extra d6 attacks compared to a regular battlewagon. The red rolla is a waste of points.
Gunwagon The "da boomer" is absolutely mandatory for the gunwagon, don't bother bringing one without. It's expensive though and doesn't do anything unique, there are plenty of options with do 2 damage shots better than the gunwagon. Inferior to the kannonwagon.
Hunta Rig Just like the kill rig, it has the melee of a bonebreaka but none of the other cool stuff. Being able to transport beast snaggas is rather worthless, which make the whole thing kind of bad.
Morkanaut With sparkly bits gone, the nauts sent to LoW exile causing both a loss of culture and requiring an extra detachment, there isn't much of a reason left to take the morkanaut. It did get a lot better in combat, but the gorkanaut is vastly better in that field.
Stompa Its points dropped once again and it finally reached regions where it doesn't just ruin your game for bringing it. Still not great.
Mekboy Workshop While no longer being pure self-sabotage, it has very narrow uses, assuming you can deploy it at all. It comes with a metric ton of barricades which are rather interesting for defending infantry while the shop can put kustom jobs on shooty units. Doubling up kustom jobs would be interesting if all of them weren't so bad.
Mek Boss Buzzgob (FW) He can super-charge a goff walker for a turn, so he is a nice addition if you were running a goff dread mob anyways. While interesting and unique, he is a bit too expensive for what he does.
Gargantuan Squiggoth (FW) Barely worth the costs, assuming you can get it around terrain at all.
Kustom Stompa (FW) The lifta droppas on this are some really mean weapons, but you might want to bring the cheaper regular stompa.

Zodgrod Wortsnagga Yet another grot HQ that provides a completely worthless offensive buff to a unit that has the offensive capabilies of, well, gretchin. No thanks. The only redeeming feature is that he can put Gulliman to sleep with the squig stoppa.
Big Mek with Kustom Force Field The KFF has become terrible unless you burn through it with a stratagem. After you have done that you are left with a choppa nob for 60 points. Nope.
Mini Mek Bad gun, bad melee, bad at repairing stuff and dies easily. Avoid. This text is unchanged since 7th, GW really doesn't want to sell this model.
Runtherd You have to run a lot of gretchins to make runtherds a useful investment, since they cost almost as much as a whole replacement squad of gretchins for the squad you lost because he wasn't there to stop them running away.
Nobz on Warbikes (FW) Unless they get updated with the new warbiker's rules there really is no reason to play them over squighogs or warbikers.


Clans:
(Last update: 2021-08-17)

Goffs
Kulture: No Muckin' About Every roll of six in combat add one additional HIT (was attack in 8th) and +1S. Essentially everyone is skarboyz. This is an incredibly powerful melee buff, so if your are running multiple melee units (boyz!) this is the best trait to give them.
Warlord trait: Proper Killy Proper Killy is worse than almost every other trait. So there is no reason to give a warlord Proper Killy by choice, but Thrakka is locked into it.
Stratagem: Unbridled Carnage (2 CP) The goff trait triggers on fives instead of sixes, characters and core only. It might make a difference when you really have to make sure that you kill something, but at 2CP it's too expensive to use regularly.
Relic: Da Iron Gob After fighting, the model gets to headbut someone for d3 mortal wounds. I really don't see a character that I want to put this on, there are so many better relics out available.

Bad Moonz
Kulture: Armed To Da Teef The extra range is fairly significant on most weapons as it makes many weapons jump from 24" to 30", and the extra AP is great for most non-kustom weapons.
Warlord Trait: Da Best Armor Teef Can Buy Essentially, this is a worse version of the generic "Da Krushin Armor", but without the MA requirement. Especially the wartrike can make good use of this, but it also pairs well with any killa klaw or squiggosaur boss.
Stratagem: Showin' Off (1 CP) At first glance this just seems to be the old DDD, but sixes generate extra HITS, just like the goff trait. It only works for core units and characters, so the only good targets are meks with ded shiney shoota and maybe lootas.
Relic: Gobshot Blunderbuss Turns a kustom shoota into a dual skorcha. Since it's a heavy weapon it gets 6" extra range and is actually 18", so it's not bad. It's main issue is that it can only taken by a very limited number of models and most of them want other relics.

Evil Sunz
Kultur: Red Ones Go Fasta The assault buff is gone and the dakka weapon type and many weapons moving from assault to heavy messed up the trait badly, especially since many models have a mix of types. The extra movement by itself doesn't really help any army.
Warlord trait: Fasta Than Yooz One CORE unit within 6" can fall back and charge or advance and charge. I don't see why you would ever want this over another trait, since there aren't many CORE units that need this.
Stratagem: Drive-by Dakka(1 CP) Enables an Evil Sunz SPEED FREEKS unit to move again at the end of the shooting phase. Allows units like buggies or koptas to get out of dangerous situations and hopefully behind obscuring terrain
Relic: Rezmekka's redder paint Probably one of the best relics in the codex, not only does it make everyone in combat with the wearer fight last, but it can be taken by vehicles and adds movement.

Snakebites
Kultur: Da Old Ways Don't listen to your space marines friends, it's nowhere even close to transhuman. The great part of this culture is a very juicy +1 to wound for all squigs - so when you have squigosaurs, squig hogs and smasha squigs. For every other unit the culture is essentially worthless. Note that the rigs are not squigs.
Warlord trait: Surly as a Squiggoth When you die, you have 50% chance to bounce back up with d3 wounds remaining. For almost every character, just taking defensive relic like the super-cybork is better. Mozrog is locked into this.
Stratagem: Mystic Chanting(1 CP) Deny the witch for 1CP. If you opponent has psykers you can spend a CP to deny a power you really don't want to be happening.
Relic: Bogrog's Buzzbomb Single use grenade that hits on a 2+ and does 3d6 S5 AP-1 hits, with +1 to wound if you put it on a squig. Blast makes it rather powerful against hordes, not that awesome against elite armies.

Deathskullz
Kultur: Lucky Gitz 5+++ against MW, all infantry gains objective secured, and you may reroll 1 dice per unit per phase to hit OR wound. Provides excellent benefits for pretty much every ork unit. A lot less powerful than before, but still a great jack-of-all-traits kultur.
Warlord trait: Opportunist Allows your warlord to snipe characters and might gain you a CP if you destroy a vehicle, which combos nicely with Wreckaz. While it did not improve greatly from the last codex, especially a MA big mek with the ded shiney shoota and the wartrike are now much better candidates for this trait.
Stratagem: Wreckaz (2 CP) Adds +1 to wound when attacking vehicles. Since it is limited to CORE and CHARACTERs, there are preciously few units that can benefit from it, so it is probably best used when you want to finish something off in combat.
Relic: The Fixer Upperz Now mek and big mek only, so no more shenanigans. It does mortal wounds to nearby vehicles when repairs one of your own vehicles, which just too many stars that need to align.

Blood Axes
Kultur: Taktiks While orks rarely find themselves outside of 18", the gives vehicles a 3+ save and walkers a 2+ save during the first turn. Falling back and charging or shooting is only useful on a few units like koptas or bonebreakers as most ork units either don't survive two rounds of combat, the enemy wants to get out of combat ASAP or the orks annihilate whatever they have charge anyways, leaving nothing to fall back from.
Warlord Trait: I've got a Plan, Ladz Allows you to pick up to 3 (not d3 like in the past) units and either re-deploy them or put them in reserves for free. There is no limit on this, so feel free to outflank two stompas and a gargantuan squiggoth for free.
Stratagem: Dead Sneaky(1 CP) If an infantry unit is within 3" of a table edge it can be put into strategic reserves. This can be use to save units from destruction, get outmaneuvered units back in the fight or to secure table quaters/perform actions for secondaries.
Relic: Morgarg's finkin cap Gain a CP if your warlord is alive. You can't ever have enough CP and this a fairly reliable way to gain one or two.

Freebootas
Kultur: Competitive Streak Each time a freeboota unit destroys an enemy unit, all other freebootas add 1 to hit for the phase. The only trait that allows Gretchin units to (indirectly) benefit by causing other non-gretchin freeboota units to gain the +1 to hit. Be aware that some units like buggies have inherrent +1 to hit and thus don't benefit from the culture. (They get to ignore dense cover though)
Warlord Trait: Killa Reputation -1 to leadership and attrition tests for enemies +1 1d for your own models. Especially 9th edition codices will be hurt by this, but with many codices still ignoring morale and many great warlord traits available, it's probably more of a trait to pick up for one of your support characters during cursade.
Stratagem: Get Da Loot (1 CP) If you ever find yourself in a situation where you outnumber your opponnet, just switch on your objective secured and go for a 8 VP swing. Insanely powerful if you can make it happen. INFANTRY only.
Relic: Badskull Banna Enemies within 6" lose objective secured. Powerful relic that can even go on vehicles.


Specialist Mobs:
(Last update: 2021-08-20)

Pyromaniacs Totally awesome when put on burnas, just forget about all the others as the gain for a single skorcha or weapons rolling multiple dice is minimal. KBBs might be the only other interesting target.
Boomboyz Extra AP for all blast weapons the vehicle is equipped with. Koptas and tank bustas benefit from this, just like for pyromaniacs, don't waste your specialist mob on single weapons. A MA mek with both KMB and tellyporta blasta might get some use out of it.
Flyboyz Light cover for planes or koptas. If you don't benefit from the kultur your would normally have, this can inprove your durability. Wasted on stormboyz.
Big Krumpaz While ok-ish on killsaw MANz or melee focused dreads, it really shines because it provides a loophole for nauts - units in SHA detachments lose their kulture, but can be specalist mobz. Works better for the gorkanaut than the morkanaut.
Madboyz Roll a d3 to see if you get 1) super-pile ins 2) worse deff skullz or 3) worse goff. If it just were the first one all the time, it would probably not suck as hard. If you get random traits, they need to be better than regular traits, not worse.
Sneaky Gitz AP-1 against targets in cover. Unless your kultur does absolutely nothing for melee units, don't take this.
Trukk boyz Yes! Finally we get our trukkboyz back. While boyz aren't great, this is still the best way to run them as they become increadibly mobile when charging out of moving trukks oldschool style.
'orrible gitz You can cover your gretchin in gak to give them objective secured. They also stink so bad that everyone (even your own units) shoots worse when standing next to them. And yes, that's the official fluff.


Kustom Jobs
(Last update: 2021-08-20)

Da Boomer Since periscope no longer doubles the shots, it just makes a bad gun average.
Fortress on Wheels If you want a deff rolla wagon to kill stuff combat or you want to transport valuable cargo, this is the best kustom job to do so.
Gyroscopic Whirligig For 10 points you can prevent a single buggy from maybe taking d3 MW when it maybe jumps. Maybe if you have spare scrap during crusade, but nah.
Moar Dakka Only really worth using on dakkajet. It's not particularly point efficient upgrade, but a good spot to sink some spare points you can't spend anywhere else.
Nitro Squigs Squig buggies are da nu shiney now, and this makes them even better. Sadly, can only be taken on single buggy units.
Red Rolla So this upgrade got worse and now makes the too expensive bonebreaka even more expensive. You'll probably find a better way to spend 20 points.
Shokka Hull Each time the model is attacked, on a 4+ it zaps the attacker for d3 mortal wounds. Battlewagon, dreads, wartrike and kill rig are all good targets for this as they want to be in combat and get the job for just 15 points.
Souped-up Speshul +2 shots for a boomdakka snazzwagon. If you have 10 points you can't get rid anywhere else you can buy this.
Squig-hide Tyres Why would you pay 10 points for +1" movement?
Stompmatic Pistons +3" movement, +1" to advance rolls for walkers. Probably a good investment for a gorkanaut or a dread that starts on the board.

Bionik Oiler Repairing is questionable, buying an one-use upgrade to repairs is worthless, and upgrading that upgrade is just a waste of everyones time. I wouldn't even take this for free.
Enhanced Runt-Sucker Makes the SAG more reliable, but an upgraded SAG is too expensive for what it does. Avoid in crusade, as this upgrade is built into the relic SAG.
Extra-Kustom Weapon The MA Bigmek is probably the only model who would seriously consider spending 10 points on an extra shot of KMB.
Smokey Gubbinz If you don't move your lootaz or burnas you get +1 to armor which does exactly zero to prevent them from getting mowed down. Just put your units in cover.
Zzapkrumpaz When fighting, wound rolls of 6 cause mortal wounds to the enemy. Actually not too shabby when used on a unit of burnas, but expensive. Lootas should not be in a situation where they can use this.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/20 14:17:47


Post by: kingbbobb


Warlord trait: Fasta Than Yooz One CORE unit within 6" can fall back and charge or advance and charge. I don't see why you would ever want this over another trait, since there aren't many CORE units that need this.


I think it's a bit harsh making this red tier.
I could see someone wanting the ability to advance and charge core units.
Warbikers for example are core. Squigboys are core.
It's not what I would do but, there are people who use trukks to get an xtra 3" on stormboys.





Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/20 14:20:54


Post by: Vineheart01


eh for any other army i could see it being awesome but not for orks.
Every single ork Core unit is either super squishy or super killy.

Boyz? Not worth bringing for them.
Bikers/squigboyz? Odds are they either got plastered because they didnt kill what they charged, or they killed what they charged.

If this were an automatic bonus and not taking a warlord trait/relic or something then i dont think anyone would be talking down on it. But since it does take a slot....nope i pass


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/20 15:30:20


Post by: Afrodactyl


 kingbbobb wrote:
Warlord trait: Fasta Than Yooz One CORE unit within 6" can fall back and charge or advance and charge. I don't see why you would ever want this over another trait, since there aren't many CORE units that need this.


I think it's a bit harsh making this red tier.
I could see someone wanting the ability to advance and charge core units.
Warbikers for example are core. Squigboys are core.
It's not what I would do but, there are people who use trukks to get an xtra 3" on stormboys.





I can see it having a niche use, but so incredibly fine a niche that it ultimately isn't worth taking.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/20 16:43:42


Post by: kingbbobb


 Afrodactyl wrote:
 kingbbobb wrote:
Warlord trait: Fasta Than Yooz One CORE unit within 6" can fall back and charge or advance and charge. I don't see why you would ever want this over another trait, since there aren't many CORE units that need this.


I think it's a bit harsh making this red tier.
I could see someone wanting the ability to advance and charge core units.
Warbikers for example are core. Squigboys are core.
It's not what I would do but, there are people who use trukks to get an xtra 3" on stormboys.





I can see it having a niche use, but so incredibly fine a niche that it ultimately isn't worth taking.


Well that's what I mean.
It's currently red tier - says it "actively reduces your chances of winning"

I would put it in yellow tier or blue

Being able to charge an opponent potentially turn 1 could mean the difference between gaining and losing VPs.








Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/20 17:44:20


Post by: koooaei


Minimeks can be a cheap source of finkin' cap and might have a plan...ladz


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/20 17:54:15


Post by: Blackie


Amazing work, as always. Thank you Jidmah .

Bad Moon's unique stratagem Showing Off is also good on warbikes which are CORE.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/20 18:49:11


Post by: enni


thank you for all the work put into this

some minor comments and corrections

1) deathskullz kulture no longer lets you reroll damage

2) bad moons more dakka strat only works on dakka weapons which tankbustas don't have

3) evil sunz warlord trait happens in command phase and gives your bikers a threat range of 24"-34" which is hillarious for boxing in your opponent. also drive by dakka can double down as double move for blocking passages.

4) blood axe warlord trait i've got a plan ladz must be ised at end of deployment step hence you don't know who's going first.

5) burna boyz with pyromaniacs statistically gain 15 percent more hits. I'm not sure this is worth it for losing clan kulture. in particular freebootaz burna boyz coming in from reserve can almost guarantee you a trigger of competitive strike now on later turns



Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/20 19:01:28


Post by: Jidmah


Thanks enni, I will update some of those - I lost my post like six times so I forgot to update some things when rewriting parts it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
enni wrote:
3) evil sunz warlord trait happens in command phase and gives your bikers a threat range of 24"-34" which is hillarious for boxing in your opponent. also drive by dakka can double down as double move for blocking passages.

Sure, but you can also just call the waaagh! and do the same. If this were a stratagem it would be great, but you are giving up one of the awesome warlord traits to get it.

4) blood axe warlord trait i've got a plan ladz must be ised at end of deployment step hence you don't know who's going first.

Yup, I considered this when evaluating it. You can still react to their deployment and get free strategic reserves even for expensive units.

5) burna boyz with pyromaniacs statistically gain 15 percent more hits. I'm not sure this is worth it for losing clan kulture. in particular freebootaz burna boyz coming in from reserve can almost guarantee you a trigger of competitive strike now on later turns

Freebootas would be the only kulture worth keeping though. For all others getting half an extra hit per burna is probably better than the kulture.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/20 19:43:53


Post by: Rogerio134134


How good is evil suns relic? Used it the other night for my wartrike who was babysitting a squad of warbikers who all good charged and then we're able to just fight first, absolutely brilliant.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/20 19:55:30


Post by: enni


agreed

I'm not through playtesting with what I own and less so with all the new stuff. Plus up to date it was only friendly games with lesser skilled opponents where I tried to take it a bit easier.

Got to say that some tricks were removed but the stats of some units are aggressively costed (megatrakk scrapjets, squigbuggies, bosses on dino).


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/20 20:02:33


Post by: kingbbobb


 Jidmah wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
enni wrote:
3) evil sunz warlord trait happens in command phase and gives your bikers a threat range of 24"-34" which is hillarious for boxing in your opponent. also drive by dakka can double down as double move for blocking passages.

Sure, but you can also just call the waaagh! and do the same. If this were a stratagem it would be great, but you are giving up one of the awesome warlord traits to get it.


well that depends on if you are bringing the Speedwaaagh!, bikers would benefit from both Speedwaaagh! (xtra shots and AP) and the trait (advance and charge) but you can't advance and fire dakka weapons
like i said Yellow Tier for me

nice work on the post jidmah


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/20 20:48:48


Post by: koooaei


How does drive-by Dakka thatallows you to make normal movement at the end of your shooting phase interact with units locked in combat?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/20 21:05:25


Post by: Jidmah


 koooaei wrote:
How does drive-by Dakka thatallows you to make normal movement at the end of your shooting phase interact with units locked in combat?


"If a unit is within Engagement Range of any enemy models when it is selected to move, it cannot make a Normal Move or Advance;"

Or in other words, it doesn't.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/20 21:10:56


Post by: kingbbobb


 koooaei wrote:
How does drive-by Dakka thatallows you to make normal movement at the end of your shooting phase interact with units locked in combat?


it can't move

the stratagem says "That unit can immediately make a Normal Move as if it was your Movement phase."

key part there is "as if it was your Movement phase"


The core rules state that during the movemenmt phase " If a unit is within Engagement Range of any enemy models when it is selected to move, it cannot make a Normal Move or Advance"



Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/20 21:15:16


Post by: Jidmah


 kingbbobb wrote:
well that depends on if you are bringing the Speedwaaagh!, bikers would benefit from both Speedwaaagh! (xtra shots and AP) and the trait (advance and charge) but you can't advance and fire dakka weapons
like i said Yellow Tier for me


Yellow tier would imply that there is a reason to pick it as one of your up to three warlord traits, and there already is no reason to pick it when you are using a regular Waaagh! or when Thrakka is in your army.

When you have a speedwaaagh!, your warlord must be either the wartrike or a warboss on warbike. Both really don't want to have this trait, and most foot characters really can't keep up with buggies or squigs, so the only character that really could use them would be a nob on smasha squig?

That's just too many "ifs" and you lose too much by not simply picking one of the other great warlord traits.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/20 21:22:29


Post by: crzylgs


I don't post here often - tend to lurk A LOT though and I've just got to applaud Jidmah for the effort he puts in to these posts and everyone else who constructively contributes to all things Orky.

During one of the various lockdowns I flirted with the idea of trying some other factions out on TTS - was shocked at the standard of the other tactics threads on here. Amazed they didn't all have a similar Tier List and basic over-view on the front page of their respective posts!

So keep up the amazing work everyone


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/20 21:31:50


Post by: Vineheart01


Ork players tend to be extremely dedicated to their army. Theres a reason ork armies have so much character to them most of the time.

Also i just have to point this out...
STOMPA ISNT RED!!! ITS A MIRACLE!!!
(still sucks major balls butt its useable now)


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/20 23:29:58


Post by: Wakshaani


Just raisin' a banner so I can secure this objective for later.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 01:35:09


Post by: XC18


Nice job


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 02:00:14


Post by: kingbbobb


 Jidmah wrote:
 kingbbobb wrote:
well that depends on if you are bringing the Speedwaaagh!, bikers would benefit from both Speedwaaagh! (xtra shots and AP) and the trait (advance and charge) but you can't advance and fire dakka weapons
like i said Yellow Tier for me


Yellow tier would imply that there is a reason to pick it as one of your up to three warlord traits, and there already is no reason to pick it when you are using a regular Waaagh! or when Thrakka is in your army.

When you have a speedwaaagh!, your warlord must be either the wartrike or a warboss on warbike. Both really don't want to have this trait, and most foot characters really can't keep up with buggies or squigs, so the only character that really could use them would be a nob on smasha squig?

That's just too many "ifs" and you lose too much by not simply picking one of the other great warlord traits.


well i don't like evil sons or buggies, so i won't post about it any further, but i do know there are some warbosses out there who will view it as the best trait in the codex and will definitely put it on a wartrike.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 04:23:57


Post by: cody.d.


So, just took a Goff ork stompa list against a mates new Tsons. Took the stomp em harder, abhor the witch and united we stand secondaries.

Buzzgob is an interesting choice. the 1+ to hit is a fun little buff, though with how aggressive gorks tend to be it tends to only be for one turn. paying the extra CP to get the goff trait is fun, but i'm not sure if it is epsecially worth it. When you get those extra 6s on a hard target it's a hilarious laugh, but usually overkill.

The stompa throws out a lot of dice, but it's accuracy is still poor. It's CCW is wonderful though, killed magnus outright even with -1 to hit and -1 dmg on the guy. And swept a 7 scarab termie unit out with a round of combat too.

Stomp em harder feels like a solid secondary as if things go well for you and poorly for your opponant it's possible to score it in both your and the opponants round of combat.

Of course, the opponant tooled up for hordes trying to meta game a bit perhaps. Instead for some decently tanky vehicles. His only multi damage weapons were D2 powerswords and force weapons. Both of which had their teeth pulled by ramshackle. I wouldn't expect the same results against a marine list tooled up with lascannons or even just plasma.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 04:51:50


Post by: shogun


"Forgeworld Kill Tank: no culture"

Is this correct? I believe the do have <clan>...


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 06:04:19


Post by: Tomsug


Great job Jidmah, thanks.

I think it' s ok like this. Now everybody start playing! We need more games passed to know more.



Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 06:21:55


Post by: ninjafiredragon


Hey! Couple of questions for y'all who are in the know.

Are Grot Mega Tanks any good? They seem a decent way to pump out a lot of shots. And with freebooters... Hitting on 3s.

And on the note, what forge world choices are good? Or at least stand out.

I hear a lot of talk on fliers being good, anyone think a tournament list with 6 of them would have any legs lol. Pushing a bunch of planes around a table sounds pretty fun


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 06:24:36


Post by: Grimskul


shogun wrote:
"Forgeworld Kill Tank: no culture"

Is this correct? I believe the do have <clan>...


They have the clan keyword but they don't have access to the trait ability itself, that's what he meant when he said that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Hey! Couple of questions for y'all who are in the know.

Are Grot Mega Tanks any good? They seem a decent way to pump out a lot of shots. And with freebooters... Hitting on 3s.

And on the note, what forge world choices are good? Or at least stand out.

I hear a lot of talk on fliers being good, anyone think a tournament list with 6 of them would have any legs lol. Pushing a bunch of planes around a table sounds pretty fun


Grot tanks aren't terrible but they're also not the greatest due to unpredictable movement and being pretty easy to lock up in cc now that both rokkits and KMB are blast weapons. They're also gretchen units so they can't benefit from kulturs like Freebootas.

Right now, the top FW unit is probably still the Kill Tank because of how aggressively costed they are. Mega Dreads are also pretty decent for their price, though you do basically have to teleport them to guarantee them getting stuck in. The Warboss on Warbike is another staple as well.



Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 07:07:21


Post by: Emicrania


 kingbbobb wrote:
Warlord trait: Fasta Than Yooz One CORE unit within 6" can fall back and charge or advance and charge. I don't see why you would ever want this over another trait, since there aren't many CORE units that need this.


I think it's a bit harsh making this red tier.
I could see someone wanting the ability to advance and charge core units.
Warbikers for example are core. Squigboys are core.
It's not what I would do but, there are people who use trukks to get an xtra 3" on stormboys.





Richard Kilton had this on a nob on smashasquig and said it was instrumental in his victory.

I would argue that this trait is a teal in a ES army(which is still teal in a bigger ES detachment, but that is another discussion) since most of our strats are trash and having this trait for 1 CP allow us to have a minor character midfield and using the OG waagh rules on our good <CORE> MSU.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 07:48:19


Post by: Tomsug


My guts says, SJD will drop down to yellow tier or similar. Light blue is just show of respect to what SJD did in old codex.
Now, this buggy does not do what it supposed to do. It does not jump. It has just a chance to jump. This is useless. And there are almost no usefull synergies about shooting, so it does not shoot so much.

My beloved buggy. That is life…


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 09:07:44


Post by: Bossdoc


I'd say Beast Snagga Boys are an ok choice if you intend to bring a kill rig (and thus Provide them with a Transport without Additional cost). The can fill up your Standard without the need to buy another trukk or rather useless grots and can pose a significant threat to enemy vehicles, especially as Goffs. Goff snaggas have a decent chance to oneshot a Raider and cause about 6 d to a T7 3+ vehicle in CC (or wipe a primaris squad when charging).


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 09:39:45


Post by: koooaei


Tiers are quite arguable ATM.
For example, blastajet is green while dakka jet is not. Blastajets are indeed great in regards to firepower but are very expensive and fragile. Enemies with long-ranged firepower will take them out t1. While dakkajets provide more utility for missions as there are more of them for the price. And with new csm anti-air I think that light but expensive planes are gona be out of the picture very soon.

Blitza bomber being better than a burns bomber - another questionable thing. Burna can shoot better and bombs aren't great for any of them anyway. Burna is also cheaper.

Blood axes culture being red - totally disagree, so do tourney results that show that there are a lot of blood axe buggies that perform great in tourney meta due to fall back + shoot or charge. It's also great for kommandoes. I think red is just op's personal view on the matter which is not objective.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grots being worse than boyz is also quite questionable. There are too many situations when you want cheaper troops. Grots are better in this regard.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 12:19:46


Post by: Jidmah


 Vineheart01 wrote:
Ork players tend to be extremely dedicated to their army. Theres a reason ork armies have so much character to them most of the time.

It's also worth noting that almost all ork players placing highly in tournaments are people who we have seen doing well with orks before. It's good to see that all these guys stuck with the green ladz and are now utelizing the much better codex.

Also i just have to point this out...
STOMPA ISNT RED!!! ITS A MIRACLE!!!
(still sucks major balls butt its useable now)


It is also worth noting that the red section in general shrunk a lot compared to the previous thread (almost exclusively characters left here!) and the "colors" are also more evenly spread across the kultures. While it's truely no more than a first draft before the meta settled down, it feels like internal balance is greatly improved.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
XC18 wrote:
You could mention the Big Krumpaz Specialist Mob.
For Gorkanaut I think it is good, since a single naut can't get the clan benefits anyway, no reason not to make it a specialist. On Smash profile that gets you 15 attacks on 2+.


Ah, I meant to add that, will add it later.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
shogun wrote:
"Forgeworld Kill Tank: no culture"

Is this correct? I believe the do have <clan>...


The core rules remove detachment rules from units in a SHA - kultures are a detachment rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 koooaei wrote:
Tiers are quite arguable ATM.

Isn't the list being arguable is the whole point of starting a new thread with it?

Blitza bomber being better than a burns bomber - another questionable thing. Burna can shoot better and bombs aren't great for any of them anyway. Burna is also cheaper.

The bombs of the blitza bommer are vastly better, especially against elite armies. The burna bommer's bombs work differently and there isn't really any army you would pick them against that you can't just gun down much more efficiently with a much more flexible dakkajet.

Blood axes culture being red - totally disagree, so do tourney results that show that there are a lot of blood axe buggies that perform great in tourney meta due to fall back + shoot or charge. It's also great for kommandoes. I think red is just op's personal view on the matter which is not objective.

"A lot"? Mind backing up that claim?
For the one guy I saw doing well with blood axes, he said he mainly picked them for the redeployment shenanigans, and that he will drop them next time.

Grots being worse than boyz is also quite questionable. There are too many situations when you want cheaper troops. Grots are better in this regard.

A unit isn't good just because it's the cheapest crap option. Gretchin essentially are terrible at every task you could possibly want them for, you are buying them to pay less CP for detachments.

I also want to point out that you are very closely focusing on the current tournament meta which is all about defeating admech and drukhari. Most people's metas aren't as heavily warped as top tournament play is, and this list is supposed to be for everyone. Anyone trying to play top tournament meta should not be taking hints from a one-dimensional list anyways


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 12:47:17


Post by: addnid


I initially thought the dakkajet was bad, but with the freebooter +1 to hit I have to admit I was wrong. Also freebooter trait is a lot easier to trigger than I initially thought, mainly because 3 sguigbuggies are a lot more powerful than I first thought, and because nearly all armies need cheap stuff to do actions.
Time will tell but I think the freebooter trait and dakkajets should go in green, as tournament results currently seem to indicate (emphasis on « seem »)


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 13:06:23


Post by: Afrodactyl


 addnid wrote:
I initially thought the dakkajet was bad, but with the freebooter +1 to hit I have to admit I was wrong. Also freebooter trait is a lot easier to trigger than I initially thought, mainly because 3 sguigbuggies are a lot more powerful than I first thought, and because nearly all armies need cheap stuff to do actions.
Time will tell but I think the freebooter trait and dakkajets should go in green, as tournament results currently seem to indicate (emphasis on « seem »)


Dakkajet is really good at what it does, squishing already squishy infantry, but it bounces off everything else too much to be a "must take" option


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 13:27:45


Post by: koooaei


 Jidmah wrote:


Blood axes culture being red - totally disagree, so do tourney results that show that there are a lot of blood axe buggies that perform great in tourney meta due to fall back + shoot or charge. It's also great for kommandoes. I think red is just op's personal view on the matter which is not objective.

"A lot"? Mind backing up that claim?
For the one guy I saw doing well with blood axes, he said he mainly picked them for the redeployment shenanigans, and that he will drop them next time.

Grots being worse than boyz is also quite questionable. There are too many situations when you want cheaper troops. Grots are better in this regard.

A unit isn't good just because it's the cheapest crap option. Gretchin essentially are terrible at every task you could possibly want them for, you are buying them to pay less CP for detachments.


I think i've seen 2 lists from top 3 running blood axe buggies. That's like 1/3 of all top ork lists so far
Blood axes are on par or even better than others clans vs armies with fast mellee that just ties you up. That's all types of elves, nids, gsc, Csm with warptime or dragons and pods. Also, custodes that are not as fast but are too tough. Those armies can tie up any unit they want and simple bigshootas with -1 to hit will not be enough to deal with them if you get to 2d. Blood axe kommandoes are also great for 3+ turn scoring in the open when the opponent can't get closer and simply doesn't have enough firepower to reliably kill 3+ armored orks.
I fail to see it being Red. It's green vs this matchups and yellow vs others.

As for grots, you need troops that simply sit behind blos, score secondaeies and perform actions. Doing this with a 50 pt squad is better than with a 90 pt squad.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 13:52:41


Post by: shabadoit


This is a great post. The only thing that stands out as strange to me is the Snakebite strat being green. Deny is super unreliably and having to contest it on the strat is bad. Similar strats elsewhere are a deny on a 4+. The strat will get use because our strats are terrible, but the majority of the time it'll just be throwing a CP away.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 14:00:43


Post by: MinMax


You don't have to commit to the CP expenditure until you've seen the results of the Psychic test - deny on a 4+ is a 50% chance to work, clearly, but deny on 2d6 can have better odds than that, especially as you can reroll it with additional CP in a pinch.

Anytime someone has barely squeaked off a psychic power, or a psychic action, you can pounce. And since it's a regular deny, its existence may bait your opponent into blowing CP on rerolling that 4 they rolled on Warp Ritual.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 14:35:54


Post by: Vineheart01


The Killtank kulture thing is referring to the Superheavy Aux detachment, which is denied detachment rules per core rules.
Killtanks are one of the extremely few LoWs that are cheap enough to bring 3 in a Superheavy Detachment so they would get kulture benefits there, but its 6cp which is painful.

GW seriously needs to revamp LoW stuff


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 15:06:25


Post by: kingbbobb


 addnid wrote:
I initially thought the dakkajet was bad, but with the freebooter +1 to hit I have to admit I was wrong. Also freebooter trait is a lot easier to trigger than I initially thought, mainly because 3 sguigbuggies are a lot more powerful than I first thought, and because nearly all armies need cheap stuff to do actions.
Time will tell but I think the freebooter trait and dakkajets should go in green, as tournament results currently seem to indicate (emphasis on « seem »)


my opinion is still undecided on the dakka jet but i am leaning towards freebooter hype train,
blast means opponents are bringing smaller units, easier to kill and orks are killy in general.
the detachment ability benefits all units - unlike snakebits which tend to benefit squigs or goffs which benefit melee, badmoons which benefit shooting.

Its also stackable if you kill more than 1 - this will offset negatives like stealth or dense terrain.

it's warlord trait is a miss

but the stratagem and relic could be key to winning a game


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 15:07:59


Post by: shabadoit


 MinMax wrote:
You don't have to commit to the CP expenditure until you've seen the results of the Psychic test - deny on a 4+ is a 50% chance to work, clearly, but deny on 2d6 can have better odds than that, especially as you can reroll it with additional CP in a pinch.

Anytime someone has barely squeaked off a psychic power, or a psychic action, you can pounce. And since it's a regular deny, its existence may bait your opponent into blowing CP on rerolling that 4 they rolled on Warp Ritual.


That's all true, but a 4+ works 50% of the time on any cast. There are situations where it's worse, sure. I think it's a nice strat to have, but I don't think it's one of the best strats in the book, it's way too situational and unreliable.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 15:44:40


Post by: Jidmah


 addnid wrote:
I initially thought the dakkajet was bad, but with the freebooter +1 to hit I have to admit I was wrong. Also freebooter trait is a lot easier to trigger than I initially thought, mainly because 3 sguigbuggies are a lot more powerful than I first thought, and because nearly all armies need cheap stuff to do actions.
Time will tell but I think the freebooter trait and dakkajets should go in green, as tournament results currently seem to indicate (emphasis on « seem »)


Agree on the dakkajet.

For the freebootas I chose to keep it at the same tier as it was before, because the issue with the trait has never been the now removed 24" but that you actually have absolutely no trait when you fail to kill something.

If armies like knights, custodes, death guard or deathwing would be more present in the meta, there would be a real chance of not triggering any bonus until almost everything has shot.

That said, nothing is set in stone. Once the top builds have been established and the meta has reacted to orks, I will update the list as usual - which is a whole lot less work that initially setting it up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
shabadoit wrote:
This is a great post. The only thing that stands out as strange to me is the Snakebite strat being green. Deny is super unreliably and having to contest it on the strat is bad. Similar strats elsewhere are a deny on a 4+. The strat will get use because our strats are terrible, but the majority of the time it'll just be throwing a CP away.


You can literally use the stratagem at any time, so you can wait for the final result. Any time you find that a deny is not worth your CP or that your opponent has rolled too high you can just not spend a CP. It is also worth noting that deny the witch rolls can be re-rolled with a command re-roll, 4+ stratagems cannot.
Essentially this stratagem is almost the same as having an army-wide deny but you only need to pay for it when you use it.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 16:20:50


Post by: SemperMortis


Lootas just got worse pt for pt than last edition but went up a grade.... Can you explain that?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 16:44:44


Post by: Vineheart01


worse? explain how they got worse pt for pt when their shots are no longer random and their cost went down?
i'd be more curious how you came to that conclusion than Jid explaining why they went up a tier.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 16:51:40


Post by: the_scotsman


SemperMortis wrote:
Lootas just got worse pt for pt than last edition but went up a grade.... Can you explain that?


Loots were obviously better given the totality of last codex (loota bomb) but imo they ate in a generally better spot if you just throw a unit down on the table and try to use them.

Freebootas is competitive now, which gets them up to approximately the damage they'd be doing with old Showin Off while spending 0cp. They're worse than other options in the dex but they're more useful than they were a couple months ago.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 16:53:30


Post by: Emicrania


Grots are terrible because they fill a troops spot not doing the main thing any other troops does, ObSec. For 5 pts more you can take a unit of kommandos DS that do anything 10 grots can do but better. Also using a rare resource as specialist mob on them is a crime. Trukkboyz are better in any shape or form.

BA shouldn't be red because is better than before, by the possibility to fall back and shoot/charge and incredible reserve manipulation, by strat and WT. Finally their relic is the only way to gain CP for Orks and can be taken by a any character.

Which leads to Mek being somehow a tiny better than before, since he can have the Finkin Cap and just farm CP together for with a mek gunz that can be repaired every turn. Possibly.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 18:37:45


Post by: Grimskul


Hey guys, I'm thinking of trying out a list with Flash Gitz with Badrukk ideally and I'm not entirely sure where to go about this. Badrukk's reroll one's will definitely help their efficiency but the main problem is the relative short range and heavy weapon nature of Flash Gitz making them want to use transports but at the same time not move in them. I'm debating using the big 'ead bossbunka for them since tellyporting them down lets them fire at full efficiency while also giving them cost-effective protection. The only problem is then Badrukk can't affect them with his aura and the other issue is that I won't be able to use the 2CP shoot again strat with them. I feel like Flash Gitz are in a really weird spot in terms of how they want to be set up, especially since now grot shields is more expensive as a strat and grots in general got a whole lot worse.

Any thoughts?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 19:12:32


Post by: koooaei


Flash gits are too expensive and fragile and d2 is not even close to how good it used to be a year ago.

They can be used in min squads in trukks or as a large squad marching behind grots. Ideally, ran as freebootas with +1 triggered twice or bdmoons on smaller maps.

Yeah, they have a strategem to shoot twice but it's whooping 2 cp and targets closest enemy. And can't be used from a transport, so you need to walk on foot and you need a grotshield or an evil sun battlewagon moving blos which is, well, a whole wagon and 1cp.

If I had to run them, I'd go for 5-man squads in trukks. Sarges have free +1 to hit and you won't waste tons of cp and extra pts on grot shields. Freebootas in 1k+ games with mandatory couple of squig buggies to trigger +1 to hit. In smaller games, probably bad moons.

I don't see large footslogging squads working in even semi-competitive games atm. Just too expensive, too fragile and require too much to work well. You're better off with tankbustas or even lootas for the price. It's odd they're marked as good.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 19:25:44


Post by: Vineheart01


Nope, there is 100% no reason to run big mobs other than the optional secondary objective.

Which is a really dumb way to balance an army but whatever. Introduce tons of ways to hurt hordes, then remove the reason hordes want to exist in the first place. Wouldnt be surprised if tyranid gaunts have some weird change to make them never want big blobs again


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 19:46:39


Post by: Grimskul


 Vineheart01 wrote:
Nope, there is 100% no reason to run big mobs other than the optional secondary objective.

Which is a really dumb way to balance an army but whatever. Introduce tons of ways to hurt hordes, then remove the reason hordes want to exist in the first place. Wouldnt be surprised if tyranid gaunts have some weird change to make them never want big blobs again


Yeah, GW has made it very clear they hate efficient chaff/horde units with the way they've been methodically neuteuring cultists, conscripts, grots, boyz and other conventional horde style units. Barring the outliers of guys like skitarii, they've taken away the incentive to take larger units and I feel like they could have balanced it a bit more so that it's not like it's a complete waste of time rather than it being the only choice to take boyz like before.

Also, thanks for the feedback regarding Flash Gitz. In that case, it seems like Badrukk is kinda pointless as a support character given how untenable taking a footslogging squad is. I usually play 1500+ games so I'll probably be aiming more for Freebootas rather than Bad Moonz in terms of klan choice.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 20:26:40


Post by: Vineheart01


 Grimskul wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
Nope, there is 100% no reason to run big mobs other than the optional secondary objective.

Which is a really dumb way to balance an army but whatever. Introduce tons of ways to hurt hordes, then remove the reason hordes want to exist in the first place. Wouldnt be surprised if tyranid gaunts have some weird change to make them never want big blobs again


Yeah, GW has made it very clear they hate efficient chaff/horde units with the way they've been methodically neuteuring cultists, conscripts, grots, boyz and other conventional horde style units. Barring the outliers of guys like skitarii, they've taken away the incentive to take larger units and I feel like they could have balanced it a bit more so that it's not like it's a complete waste of time rather than it being the only choice to take boyz like before.

Also, thanks for the feedback regarding Flash Gitz. In that case, it seems like Badrukk is kinda pointless as a support character given how untenable taking a footslogging squad is. I usually play 1500+ games so I'll probably be aiming more for Freebootas rather than Bad Moonz in terms of klan choice.


And im going to laugh if they suddenly bring back Squats as a marine horde and suddenly THAT horde unit is actually stupid strong lol


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 20:42:34


Post by: epronovost


 Vineheart01 wrote:
Nope, there is 100% no reason to run big mobs other than the optional secondary objective.

Which is a really dumb way to balance an army but whatever. Introduce tons of ways to hurt hordes, then remove the reason hordes want to exist in the first place. Wouldnt be surprised if tyranid gaunts have some weird change to make them never want big blobs again


Are there seriously people relying on big blobs of gaunts to do stuff in a competitive meta with Tyranids? Last I checked, it was mostly MSU Gargoyle to grab objectives or devilgaunts bombs here and there (and even then).

Orks still have a solid shot at horde, it's just light vehicles horde instead of boyz hordes and its not huge mobz, but multiple smaller ones. You still see a lot of boyz, but specialists ones like Kommandos, Stormboyz, Burna Boyz and the odd Slugga Boyz troop tax.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 20:48:08


Post by: Grimskul


 Vineheart01 wrote:
 Grimskul wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
Nope, there is 100% no reason to run big mobs other than the optional secondary objective.

Which is a really dumb way to balance an army but whatever. Introduce tons of ways to hurt hordes, then remove the reason hordes want to exist in the first place. Wouldnt be surprised if tyranid gaunts have some weird change to make them never want big blobs again


Yeah, GW has made it very clear they hate efficient chaff/horde units with the way they've been methodically neuteuring cultists, conscripts, grots, boyz and other conventional horde style units. Barring the outliers of guys like skitarii, they've taken away the incentive to take larger units and I feel like they could have balanced it a bit more so that it's not like it's a complete waste of time rather than it being the only choice to take boyz like before.

Also, thanks for the feedback regarding Flash Gitz. In that case, it seems like Badrukk is kinda pointless as a support character given how untenable taking a footslogging squad is. I usually play 1500+ games so I'll probably be aiming more for Freebootas rather than Bad Moonz in terms of klan choice.


And im going to laugh if they suddenly bring back Squats as a marine horde and suddenly THAT horde unit is actually stupid strong lol


Honestly, given how their constant updates/additions to the SM line have resulted in the army's schtick becoming stealing other army traits (i.e. the aspect warrior-ization of primaris units becoming specialists rather than generalists like most firstborn units are) I wouldn't be surprised if the Black Templar supplement makes marine hordes a thing with revamped Crusader squads being the new gold standard for a horde unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
epronovost wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
Nope, there is 100% no reason to run big mobs other than the optional secondary objective.

Which is a really dumb way to balance an army but whatever. Introduce tons of ways to hurt hordes, then remove the reason hordes want to exist in the first place. Wouldnt be surprised if tyranid gaunts have some weird change to make them never want big blobs again


Are there seriously people relying on big blobs of gaunts to do stuff in a competitive meta with Tyranids? Last I checked, it was mostly MSU Gargoyle to grab objectives or devilgaunts bombs here and there (and even then).

Orks still have a solid shot at horde, it's just light vehicles horde instead of boyz hordes and its not huge mobz, but multiple smaller ones. You still see a lot of boyz, but specialists ones like Kommandos, Stormboyz, Burna Boyz and the odd Slugga Boyz troop tax.


I wouldn't really consider 10 man unit spam of Ork boyz and specialists a "horde" army in the conventional sense. You'll barely outnumber the enemy barring hyper elite armies like Custodes.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 21:33:54


Post by: Beardedragon


The scrapjet dont have 4 big shootas, they have 2 twin big shootas. Its important for speed waagh purposes as I believe they only get +2 extra dakka shots, for being 2 guns, rather than +4 for having 4 big shootas


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 21:51:35


Post by: xttz


Disclaimer: I know this won't compete with buggies & squigosaurs, but it's a combo I'll try once I've painted up my battlewagon and don't see why it's under red / yellow in the OP

Bonebreaka with Red Rolla that arrives safely from a Tellyporta on turn 2, and makes a virtually guaranteed (~92%) charge via Ramming Speed. Then it inflicts D3 mortal wounds on a 2+, followed by 10-12 attacks at WS2+ S9 AP-2 D2. On average that's 6+ MEQ's or a potentially deadly amount of damage to any medium vehicle.
Then you have a Ramshackle T8 W16 3+ vehicle with a solid threat range for turn 3, as well as disembark a unit for additional damage / midboard control.

Is 4CP & 195pts badly overcosted for that?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 22:14:01


Post by: epronovost


 xttz wrote:
Disclaimer: I know this won't compete with buggies & squigosaurs, but it's a combo I'll try once I've painted up my battlewagon and don't see why it's under red / yellow in the OP

Bonebreaka with Red Rolla that arrives safely from a Tellyporta on turn 2, and makes a virtually guaranteed (~92%) charge via Ramming Speed. Then it inflicts D3 mortal wounds on a 2+, followed by 10-12 attacks at WS2+ S9 AP-2 D2. On average that's 6+ MEQ's or a potentially deadly amount of damage to any medium vehicle.
Then you have a Ramshackle T8 W16 3+ vehicle with a solid threat range for turn 3, as well as disembark a unit for additional damage / midboard control.

Is 4CP & 195pts badly overcosted for that?


It certainly interesting though I wonder what unit would benefit most from being inside such a Bonebreaka. My first intuition would be Burna boyz for some nasty shooting should there be infantry in the area though that would be very expansive and not use the full transport capacity of the Bonebreaka.

On another note, am I crazy or did GW removed the Battlewagon entirely from its webstore?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 22:46:47


Post by: Tyel


 koooaei wrote:
Flash gits are too expensive and fragile and d2 is not even close to how good it used to be a year ago.

I don't see large footslogging squads working in even semi-competitive games atm. Just too expensive, too fragile and require too much to work well. You're better off with tankbustas or even lootas for the price. It's odd they're marked as good.


Agree in principle.

I think the problem is that they are paying for (and I think this applies to Tankbustas and Lootas too) the potential buff stacking you can apply to them. 24" range isn't that great perhaps - but its not impossible to imagine a situation (at least in the semi-competitive games I usually play) where you can deploy them forward and central into cover (preferably somewhere elevated) which gives them good fire lanes covering a range of mid-table and your zone objectives and a 3+ save. With say the Freeboota trait and shooting twice (sure 2 CP is 2 CP, but I think if you have the opportunity for 15-30 more shots at BS3+ early game you are taking it) the probable damage output is rising to incredible levels.

In a competitive game though there probably won't be that sort of terrain set up. On foot your opponent will almost certainly just LOS the unit out until they decide to kill it. In a Trukk you'll drive up, get off one volley at BS5+, kind of meh (I guess Freebootas but its still a bit meh), then the Trukk will be destroyed and almost certainly along with the Flash Gitz inside. Even at 5 that's too many points to go "oh well never mind" - at 10 it feels game losing. Would you ever take this over the equivalent points in buggies, dakkajets etc? I don't think so. Does that necessarily mean Flash Gitz should get a points reduction? Maybe - but you are making the above even more ludicrous if it ever happens.

I also tend to think they should have got Choppas. Not really sure this changes anything - but given their points it feels a bit "why not". "But the models tho" - well, just use your imagination.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/21 23:51:29


Post by: SemperMortis


 the_scotsman wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Lootas just got worse pt for pt than last edition but went up a grade.... Can you explain that?


Loots were obviously better given the totality of last codex (loota bomb) but imo they ate in a generally better spot if you just throw a unit down on the table and try to use them.

Freebootas is competitive now, which gets them up to approximately the damage they'd be doing with old Showin Off while spending 0cp. They're worse than other options in the dex but they're more useful than they were a couple months ago.


right...but you could do the same thing with the 8th edition codex by putting them in a freeboota list, only difference was they had to be within 24' of the unit that killed something. Not exactly hard to do honestly. So again, they just got worse, but went up a grade. It doesn't make sense.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 01:07:31


Post by: kingbbobb


epronovost wrote:
 xttz wrote:
Disclaimer: I know this won't compete with buggies & squigosaurs, but it's a combo I'll try once I've painted up my battlewagon and don't see why it's under red / yellow in the OP

Bonebreaka with Red Rolla that arrives safely from a Tellyporta on turn 2, and makes a virtually guaranteed (~92%) charge via Ramming Speed. Then it inflicts D3 mortal wounds on a 2+, followed by 10-12 attacks at WS2+ S9 AP-2 D2. On average that's 6+ MEQ's or a potentially deadly amount of damage to any medium vehicle.
Then you have a Ramshackle T8 W16 3+ vehicle with a solid threat range for turn 3, as well as disembark a unit for additional damage / midboard control.

Is 4CP & 195pts badly overcosted for that?


It certainly interesting though I wonder what unit would benefit most from being inside such a Bonebreaka. My first intuition would be Burna boyz for some nasty shooting should there be infantry in the area though that would be very expansive and not use the full transport capacity of the Bonebreaka.

On another note, am I crazy or did GW removed the Battlewagon entirely from its webstore?


problem bone breakers have is they get compared to kill rigs.
and other than the transport aspect, kill rigs are just better


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 02:01:35


Post by: Jidmah


SemperMortis wrote:
Lootas just got worse pt for pt than last edition but went up a grade.... Can you explain that?


I'm not sure why exactly you think they are worse? They got cheaper, can move and shoot, gained T5, are more reliable and get 50% more shots at 24" than before. Heck, even grot shield is more reliable at protecting them now, even though it still sucks with 5pt gretchin.

Yes, mandatory spannaz, but both KMB and big shoota are decent options as they unit can now finally move instead of having to sit in a corner and or lose half their shooting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Emicrania wrote:
BA shouldn't be red because is better than before, by the possibility to fall back and shoot/charge and incredible reserve manipulation, by strat and WT. Finally their relic is the only way to gain CP for Orks and can be taken by a any character.

Only the kultur is red, not the entire clan. I did not put any colors on clans as a whole, because for one I think they are all fairly close to each other and many of them are situational and second it's a bit too early to decide that for all of them.

Which leads to Mek being somehow a tiny better than before, since he can have the Finkin Cap and just farm CP together for with a mek gunz that can be repaired every turn. Possibly.

I feel like we have this discussion every time I write a new list
You could just put the relic on a character that actually does something and not give away free assassination points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 xttz wrote:
Disclaimer: I know this won't compete with buggies & squigosaurs, but it's a combo I'll try once I've painted up my battlewagon and don't see why it's under red / yellow in the OP

Bonebreaka with Red Rolla that arrives safely from a Tellyporta on turn 2, and makes a virtually guaranteed (~92%) charge via Ramming Speed. Then it inflicts D3 mortal wounds on a 2+, followed by 10-12 attacks at WS2+ S9 AP-2 D2. On average that's 6+ MEQ's or a potentially deadly amount of damage to any medium vehicle.
Then you have a Ramshackle T8 W16 3+ vehicle with a solid threat range for turn 3, as well as disembark a unit for additional damage / midboard control.

Is 4CP & 195pts badly overcosted for that?


Well, it kind of is? Essentially you are paying an extra 60 points to make an extra 3+d3 attacks with the deff rolla, and only if you get the charge. If you just deep struck a barebone battlewagon with 4 burnas and a KMB spanna inside, you would get almost the same results, but you would have two units.

I have no idea why GW made both the gun wagon and the bonebreaka so much more expensive than the regular battlewagon, but it does make them quite bad in comparison.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 02:24:50


Post by: russellmoo


What I like about the burna bommer is that it is a great way to destroy large squads taking advantage of cover to boost their survivability. I feel it helps out an ork army in an area where it can struggle which is dealing with mass 2+ armor saves.

Granted I can also see matchups where the burna bommer might not have a prime target, but it can also wreck your opponents scoring plans


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 02:41:59


Post by: epronovost


 kingbbobb wrote:
epronovost wrote:
 xttz wrote:
Disclaimer: I know this won't compete with buggies & squigosaurs, but it's a combo I'll try once I've painted up my battlewagon and don't see why it's under red / yellow in the OP

Bonebreaka with Red Rolla that arrives safely from a Tellyporta on turn 2, and makes a virtually guaranteed (~92%) charge via Ramming Speed. Then it inflicts D3 mortal wounds on a 2+, followed by 10-12 attacks at WS2+ S9 AP-2 D2. On average that's 6+ MEQ's or a potentially deadly amount of damage to any medium vehicle.
Then you have a Ramshackle T8 W16 3+ vehicle with a solid threat range for turn 3, as well as disembark a unit for additional damage / midboard control.

Is 4CP & 195pts badly overcosted for that?


It certainly interesting though I wonder what unit would benefit most from being inside such a Bonebreaka. My first intuition would be Burna boyz for some nasty shooting should there be infantry in the area though that would be very expansive and not use the full transport capacity of the Bonebreaka.

On another note, am I crazy or did GW removed the Battlewagon entirely from its webstore?


problem bone breakers have is they get compared to kill rigs.
and other than the transport aspect, kill rigs are just better


That's a tough place to be. Kill Rigs are probably a solid contender for best heavy tank in the game I would say. While the Bonebreaka isn't as good in most circumstances, the idea of kingbbobb might actually be valuable when facing some particularly elite units that the Kill Rig would struggle against in close combat. It's quite situational though.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 06:54:14


Post by: Blackie


SemperMortis wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Lootas just got worse pt for pt than last edition but went up a grade.... Can you explain that?


Loots were obviously better given the totality of last codex (loota bomb) but imo they ate in a generally better spot if you just throw a unit down on the table and try to use them.

Freebootas is competitive now, which gets them up to approximately the damage they'd be doing with old Showin Off while spending 0cp. They're worse than other options in the dex but they're more useful than they were a couple months ago.


right...but you could do the same thing with the 8th edition codex by putting them in a freeboota list, only difference was they had to be within 24' of the unit that killed something. Not exactly hard to do honestly. So again, they just got worse, but went up a grade. It doesn't make sense.


The unsupported unit (no CPs invested and no auxiliary unit except a transport) is so much better now, that's why they gained a grade.

They were completely unplayable without investing tons of stuff on them, now they are at least decent even on their own.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 06:54:22


Post by: koooaei


 Emicrania wrote:

BA shouldn't be red because is better than before, by the possibility to fall back and shoot/charge and incredible reserve manipulation, by strat and WT. Finally their relic is the only way to gain CP for Orks and can be taken by a any character.

Which leads to Mek being somehow a tiny better than before, since he can have the Finkin Cap and just farm CP together for with a mek gunz that can be repaired every turn. Possibly.


Just ignore the rating if you know the units allready. It's aimed for new players that are yet to figure stuff out themselves. And more obvious buffs like +1 to hit or a re-roll are better for them.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 07:18:54


Post by: Tomsug


Advance and charge and long range charge generaly:

My shooting buggy list likes enemy pined down in his deploy. I don' t like some CC dreadnoughts walking in my half of the table. I like to keep them home to give me space to care about my beloved objectives in the midfield.

To do this, stick something hard in opponents face is necessary.

However, we lost all abilities giving us advance and charge on Vehicles. This is pretty game-changing because to alphacharge, you need min.24” “guaranteed” and Advance was the few inches that pushed the BW to 27”. Without advance the standard one turn thread distance is for Battlewagon or Killrig or similar is M12” + Ramming speed 10,5”+ EreWeGo 1” = 23,5” or something.

This is not enough. How to pimp it up?

Options:

1. Take a Ghazzy and call the Great Waaaagh. This works however just for core and character units => Killrig is back on 27”. But you need to pay huge tax for Ghazzy

2. Mega Dread Mega Charge add 1D6 and discard lowest. However MD is M8” so it is hardly over 20,5” range. Don' t work.

3. Da Jump - Just Core, don' t work.

4. Evil Sunz sheneningas - add 1”. Better with Great Waaagh but not so much. Warlord trait don' t work because CORE. Redder paint add M2” and fight first, which is great.

5. Wartrika - M14” = 25,5”. With GW = 31,5” but wartrike is one shot. Die fast alone. Not great

7. Squig-hide Tyres - add M1” and A2” to any vehicles.


Scenarios:

I. Without Ghazzy - BW / BB / Killrig M12” + Squig Tyres 1” + Ramming Speed and Erewego = about 24,5”…. not great

ES Killrig is 25,5” + Redder paint 2” = 27,5” and Fight first. That works but you need Evil Sunz.

II. With Ghazzy - Killrig is the only option due the CHARACTER keyword with maximum range without ES = 28”

With ES and Redder paint it' s 32” and fight first. Well… that is cool


Conclusions:
1. We can do Alpha Charge with Vehicles, but we have pretty limited options.
2. Either we need Ghazzy
3. Or Evil Sunz
4. Or both
5. And you definitely need Killrig


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 11:11:12


Post by: Beardedragon


Im not sure why the power lever and point cost is higer for the snazzwagon than the boosta blasta. Over all the kustom boosta blasta seem to have much higer damage output and the -1 to hit can be offset by keeping your buggies near your wartrike Who uses cloud of smoke to get -1 to hit.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 11:49:18


Post by: XC18


 Tomsug wrote:
Advance and charge and long range charge generaly:

My shooting buggy list likes enemy pined down in his deploy. I don' t like some CC dreadnoughts walking in my half of the table. I like to keep them home to give me space to care about my beloved objectives in the midfield.

To do this, stick something hard in opponents face is necessary.


The most accessible option is to infiltrate kommandos and charge them turn 1 in opponent DZ. They will be wiped of course, but that should pin the enemy for a turn, enough time for the rest of your army to arrive.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 12:27:56


Post by: discopuma


 Tomsug wrote:
Advance and charge and long range charge generaly:

Conclusions:
1. We can do Alpha Charge with Vehicles, but we have pretty limited options.
2. Either we need Ghazzy
3. Or Evil Sunz
4. Or both
5. And you definitely need Killrig



Why do you need Ghaz? I understand he gives you the benefits of Speedwaaagh! as well, but if you just want an alpha strike, any warboss that can call the regular Waaagh will work, right?

How about a Squigboss, with Redder Paint as your warlord, send Wartrike from another detachment, Kill Rigs as desired and Kommandos as mentioned above? Stormboyz could also work but if you are running buggies you might not have the Fast Attack slots. I am not sure it is worth it versus just waiting a turn, but giving up Speedwaaagh for regular Waaagh seems like an option if you want to prioritize your alpha.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 12:40:10


Post by: kingbbobb


 Tomsug wrote:
Advance and charge and long range charge generaly:

My shooting buggy list likes enemy pined down in his deploy. I don' t like some CC dreadnoughts walking in my half of the table. I like to keep them home to give me space to care about my beloved objectives in the midfield.

To do this, stick something hard in opponents face is necessary.

However, we lost all abilities giving us advance and charge on Vehicles. This is pretty game-changing because to alphacharge, you need min.24” “guaranteed” and Advance was the few inches that pushed the BW to 27”. Without advance the standard one turn thread distance is for Battlewagon or Killrig or similar is M12” + Ramming speed 10,5”+ EreWeGo 1” = 23,5” or something.

This is not enough. How to pimp it up?

Options:

1. Take a Ghazzy and call the Great Waaaagh. This works however just for core and character units => Killrig is back on 27”. But you need to pay huge tax for Ghazzy

2. Mega Dread Mega Charge add 1D6 and discard lowest. However MD is M8” so it is hardly over 20,5” range. Don' t work.

3. Da Jump - Just Core, don' t work.

4. Evil Sunz sheneningas - add 1”. Better with Great Waaagh but not so much. Warlord trait don' t work because CORE. Redder paint add M2” and fight first, which is great.

5. Wartrika - M14” = 25,5”. With GW = 31,5” but wartrike is one shot. Die fast alone. Not great

7. Squig-hide Tyres - add M1” and A2” to any vehicles.


Scenarios:

I. Without Ghazzy - BW / BB / Killrig M12” + Squig Tyres 1” + Ramming Speed and Erewego = about 24,5”…. not great

ES Killrig is 25,5” + Redder paint 2” = 27,5” and Fight first. That works but you need Evil Sunz.

II. With Ghazzy - Killrig is the only option due the CHARACTER keyword with maximum range without ES = 28”

With ES and Redder paint it' s 32” and fight first. Well… that is cool


Conclusions:
1. We can do Alpha Charge with Vehicles, but we have pretty limited options.
2. Either we need Ghazzy
3. Or Evil Sunz
4. Or both
5. And you definitely need Killrig


though this may not be a good idea, vehicles arn't the only option for a turn one charge

Kommandos can deploy " 9" away from the enemy deployment zone and any enemy models."
they have movement 7 with evil sons kulture and adavnce d6+1 meaning you can advance as at "minimum" to the enemy deployment zone

using evil sons warlord trait you would almost certainly be able to advance and charge something turn 1.
only problem is you don't know if your going to have first turn and first turn is determined after deployment so probably not a good idea xD


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 13:18:33


Post by: Tomsug


XC18 wrote:

The most accessible option is to infiltrate kommandos and charge them turn 1 in opponent DZ. They will be wiped of course, but that should pine the enemy for a turn, enough time for the rest of your army to arrive.


That is a good point! The rest of my army stays back but the close combat part of the army will do.

The problem I see is a colision with opponent pregame moves and the 9”. And the fact, I don' t know if I go first or second. Because if go second, opponents move less than 9” and use my kommandos like a swing to get with his charge and consolidation to the midfield objectives in T1 and score even with slow units. Honestly, is it a good idea at all?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I put a priority on shooting for my buggies. That' s why I want speedwaaaagh.

But to protect my buggies to give them the space to shoot and score the VPs I need to keep enemy home. That is the reason, why I combine shooting buggies with some hard hitting stuff. I can't shoot down the whole opponents army. I need to batch it

The magic of transports is, that if they charge, fight and die another turn and than there is a crew that disemabark.

And the crew can use emergency disembark 6”. So they basicly jump over the opponents units and with their obsec, they take some objectives… in opponent deployment zone or whatever. That is what I do now and it works very good and drives opponent crazy. And score me the points.

Oh yes, and there are some armies, that shoot much better than me and the only way how to play againts them is charge them. As fast, as possible. Eldar, small chaos knights spam, etc.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 kingbbobb wrote:

…. using evil sons warlord trait you would almost certainly be able to advance and charge something turn 1.
only problem is you don't know if your going to have first turn and first turn is determined after deployment so probably not a good idea xD


Well, the point is not to charge and die in T1. The idea is to charge and stink there even in next opponents turn.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 13:37:04


Post by: gungo


Is the wazbom really green when at minimum it’s 190 points with kff and really should be 210 pts with telly blasta… that’s one of our most expensive vehicles.. maybe I don’t use them enough but it seems like an expensive easier to kill vehicle target especially when the Killrig is 190pts for better shooting, better durability and a great melee profile.. I mean sure the wazbom gets a -1 to hit and 5++ kff but the Killrig has more wounds, higher toughness, higher armor save and a built in 6++. And the Killrig is a rank lower. I’m missing something or it’s not adding up.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 14:40:13


Post by: SemperMortis


 Jidmah wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Lootas just got worse pt for pt than last edition but went up a grade.... Can you explain that?


I'm not sure why exactly you think they are worse? They got cheaper, can move and shoot, gained T5, are more reliable and get 50% more shots at 24" than before. Heck, even grot shield is more reliable at protecting them now, even though it still sucks with 5pt gretchin.

Yes, mandatory spannaz, but both KMB and big shoota are decent options as they unit can now finally move instead of having to sit in a corner and or lose half their shooting.


They went down in price...but stayed the same as far as primary weapons loadout is concerned. 5 Lootas with Deffgunz = 100pts in 8th edition. 5 Lootas with deffgunz is now 102pts but you get a free spanner. The reason I highlight this is because nobody took the spanner last edition because...why would you? So points wise for their primary weapon system, they have gotten more expensive. They gained T5 absolutely but that is cancelled out by Mob rule nerf which means you really don't want to field these guys in anything bigger than MSU. They are more reliable at shooting, but they used to average 0.77 hits a turn at all ranges, they now average 0.66 hits a turn at 25-48' range. Grot shields did get better at protecting them...but the grots also went up in price and worse, you have to declare you are grot shielding the lootas before they are targeted which means your opponent can just ignore them and force you to spend CP without any benefit for yourself except protecting your lootas which as mentioned...just got worse dmg potential wise. As far as 50% more shots at 24. Again, on average yes, but you have to get within 24' to get this and if you are footsloggin they won't last long unless you are also foot sloggin a Grots unit which at that point you just jacked their price up even higher for less dmg potential. At best they will ride in a trukk but that also increases their cost by 70pts.

KMB and big shoota are ok options, but of the two, neither has the same range as the loota which means they want you to get close to benefit from it. And if the KMB rolls a 1 you just lost a 22pt model, and as a reminder, a Spanner has a 33% chance to hit with a KMB and a 16.6% chance to kill himself with the KMB.

 Blackie wrote:

The unsupported unit (no CPs invested and no auxiliary unit except a transport) is so much better now, that's why they gained a grade.

They were completely unplayable without investing tons of stuff on them, now they are at least decent even on their own.


Well that was the thing wasn't it? Lootas were god awful last edition, as soon as Loota bomb went away you never saw lootas on the table again.

So unsupported, as in, no kulture, no CP, no anything. A unit of 5 lootas was 100pts and averaged 3.88 hits a turn at all ranges that works out to 1 hit per 25.7pts. A unit of 5 lootas now is 85pts and averages 2.66 hits a turn at 25-48' and 4 hits a turn at 1-24 range. That means that at 50%+ range they are 1 hit per 31.8pts and at 50% range or less they are 1 hit per 25.25pts

As far as Dmg potential in modifiers, the 8th edition loota was way better, but the CP investment was huge and again, after mob up went away...not worth it.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 14:47:16


Post by: Vineheart01


its incredibly difficult to math out a random shot mechanic and compare it to a nonrandom one.

I stopped using lootas long before the lootabomb went away because i got sick of rolling a 1 multiple times in a row on that D3, which basically makes them completely worthless.
Their theoretical damage output is lower now for sure...since when do we compare that to averages? Nobody likes bringing units that 1/3 of the time does jack squat even if it means 1/3 of the time they make it rain bullets.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 14:50:22


Post by: SemperMortis


 Vineheart01 wrote:
its incredibly difficult to math out a random shot mechanic and compare it to a nonrandom one.

I stopped using lootas long before the lootabomb went away because i got sick of rolling a 1 multiple times in a row on that D3, which basically makes them completely worthless.
Their theoretical damage output is lower now for sure...since when do we compare that to averages? Nobody likes bringing units that 1/3 of the time does jack squat even if it means 1/3 of the time they make it rain bullets.


Competitively, before the loota bomb went away, Ork players were winning tournament with it. So yeah, those occasions when you rolled 1 shot and re-rolled 1 shot were bad, but they were countered by far by the chance of rolling 3 shots and not having to re-roll a 2 shot either. They were a CP sink to be sure, but they would EAT your opponents army.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 15:15:32


Post by: Afrodactyl


XC18 wrote:
 Tomsug wrote:
Advance and charge and long range charge generaly:

My shooting buggy list likes enemy pined down in his deploy. I don' t like some CC dreadnoughts walking in my half of the table. I like to keep them home to give me space to care about my beloved objectives in the midfield.

To do this, stick something hard in opponents face is necessary.


The most accessible option is to infiltrate kommandos and charge them turn 1 in opponent DZ. They will be wiped of course, but that should pine the enemy for a turn, enough time for the rest of your army to arrive.


I'm actually using bigger mobs of kommandos for exactly this. Two units of ten kommandos with a PK, bomb squig and Breacha Ram. They either get a turn one charge to save other units from being shot off the board, or they're enough of a threat in cover that they get the attention of the shooting that would otherwise past more threatening units.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 17:02:04


Post by: addnid


Yeah killrig not in green means Jidmah probably hasn’t tried it out yet. Once you try it out, you know GW won’t leave it at 190 points for long still.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 17:56:06


Post by: Vineheart01


yeah the Hunta Rig is probably about right since it really doesnt do much other than move 15 snaggas and has decent melee
Kill rig is pennies more for psyker power and a mean autohitting attack....for 5 less capacity

i dont see a reason to run hunta rigs, even if say killrigs were not allowed i would just run wagons.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 18:11:07


Post by: Tomsug


 Vineheart01 wrote:
i dont see a reason to run hunta rigs, even if say killrigs were not allowed i would just run wagons.


That is the reason why I do Killrigs like extension on my wagons on magnets. After the nerf of killrigs, I can switch back to anything else, totaly dyno-free.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 18:11:44


Post by: addnid


Anyways they will fist sell tons of kits, then once they have sold enough, they will give it a 20 point increase. I will be one of the suckers buying the thing (just one though)


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 18:43:22


Post by: Tomsug


 Afrodactyl wrote:

I'm actually using bigger mobs of kommandos for exactly this. Two units of ten kommandos with a PK, bomb squig and Breacha Ram. They either get a turn one charge to save other units from being shot off the board, or they're enough of a threat in cover that they get the attention of the shooting that would otherwise past more threatening units.


That is actualy one of the alternative options. The problem is a magic number 24”. This is very common range and the distance between the deployments. Putting Komandos in 9” does not necessary soak the fire that threaten the buggies. It just offer the target for the guns that remain silence otherwise. The same story like with the Jets. Jets are however the same target as buggies, so soaking better.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 19:19:40


Post by: epronovost


 addnid wrote:
Anyways they will fist sell tons of kits, then once they have sold enough, they will give it a 20 point increase. I will be one of the suckers buying the thing (just one though)


It would still be fairly good with a 20 point increase in my opinion.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 20:33:11


Post by: Afrodactyl


 Tomsug wrote:
 Afrodactyl wrote:

I'm actually using bigger mobs of kommandos for exactly this. Two units of ten kommandos with a PK, bomb squig and Breacha Ram. They either get a turn one charge to save other units from being shot off the board, or they're enough of a threat in cover that they get the attention of the shooting that would otherwise past more threatening units.


That is actualy one of the alternative options. The problem is a magic number 24”. This is very common range and the distance between the deployments. Putting Komandos in 9” does not necessary soak the fire that threaten the buggies. It just offer the target for the guns that remain silence otherwise. The same story like with the Jets. Jets are however the same target as buggies, so soaking better.


My kommandos and buggies are both supported by trukk boys that present as fast moving targets on both ends of that spectrum. Fortunately so far they've all gelled quite well with one another in that regard and shooting at one target has meant that the other is getting through to cause chaos for my opponent.

This will probably change with time and as soon as my regular opponents have nailed down the target priority of the list, but for now it's certainly working.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 21:12:19


Post by: Jidmah


SemperMortis wrote:

They went down in price...but stayed the same as far as primary weapons loadout is concerned. 5 Lootas with Deffgunz = 100pts in 8th edition. 5 Lootas with deffgunz is now 102pts but you get a free spanner. The reason I highlight this is because nobody took the spanner last edition because...why would you? So points wise for their primary weapon system, they have gotten more expensive.

So they gained an extra wound, the ability to move, more shots at 24" and a big shoota for two points. That's not a nerf.
The new KMB for just 5 points also isn't a terrible deal.

They gained T5 absolutely but that is cancelled out by Mob rule nerf which means you really don't want to field these guys in anything bigger than MSU.

Outside of the lootastar, which was already dead an buried with the start of 9th, there was no reason to field lootas as anything but MSU already. In fact, 9 models was optimal because of blasts and the clever spanna stratagem. So when you lost 3 lootas for the 50% chance to fail you already were below the ld6 threshold, meaning mob rule actually got better for lootas.
But alas, lootas never really benefited from mob rule to begin with because they were nowhere near large mobs or inside transports for most of the game.

They are more reliable at shooting, but they used to average 0.77 hits a turn at all ranges, they now average 0.66 hits a turn at 25-48' range.

I'm not willing to math that out in detail, but I'm sure the one big shoota hit amounts to some damage as well which is only slightly worse than the .5555 lota hits lost.

Grot shields did get better at protecting them...but the grots also went up in price

They didn't. They were 5 points before and are now slightly harder get through if you want to get to the unit behind it.

and worse, you have to declare you are grot shielding the lootas before they are targeted which means your opponent can just ignore them and force you to spend CP without any benefit for yourself except protecting your lootas

That is true, though with proper obscuring terrain there is no guarantee that your opponent can pick a different target. Personally, I haven't use the stratagem to protect lootas in 9th before the codex and won't use it after. 5 points gretchin are just too expensive for this purpose. I didn't put up a stratagem ranking because it varies too much with personal playstyle, but for me grot shields are a dead red stratagem. The only real use I could see is if a dedicated shooting unit would be out of targets when you use the stratagem, which is quite situational.
If you try to plan around it, you are definitely setting yourself up for failure, so it's not something you should consider for lootas.

which as mentioned...just got worse dmg potential wise. As far as 50% more shots at 24. Again, on average yes, but you have to get within 24' to get this and if you are footsloggin they won't last long unless you are also foot sloggin a Grots unit which at that point you just jacked their price up even higher for less dmg potential. At best they will ride in a trukk but that also increases their cost by 70pts.

Sorry, but this is a bit to hand-wavey. Even if you completely ignore anything but damage output (which is flawed by itself already), at 24" you now get 5 loota hits instead of 3 for your 100/102 points plus 1 or 1.4444 big shoota hits.
In addition, lootas can now move to line up shots without investing CP or losing half their firepower, so you also gain

So for your premise of these changes being a nerf to be true, you would have to prove that the losing the .5555 hits when standing still at 25"+ is actually vastly more likely to happen than gaining 2 hits at 0-24" or moving to line up shots and gaining 1.9444 hits.

When properly deployed, 24" range usually means being able to reach all of the midfield of on one flank, or when deployed in the center (don't don that) all of it. Basically you are shooting all your opponent's fast assets, melee units, mid-range shooting and objective grabbers with the vastly improved profile, while being worse at shooting home objective campers, direkt fire artillery and unobscurable models from across the board.
Lootas aren't too hot at taking out T7+ vehicles and elite infantry which usually make up the later group, so this makes the loss matter even less.

In other words, in terms of pure offense, the "nerf" is that you trade DDD and 2 points at 25-48" for a big shoota if someone choses to stand in your LoS for some reason. If you need to move to line up shots or are within 24", lootas have undeniably become strictly better.

KMB and big shoota are ok options, but of the two, neither has the same range as the loota which means they want you to get close to benefit from it. And if the KMB rolls a 1 you just lost a 22pt model, and as a reminder, a Spanner has a 33% chance to hit with a KMB and a 16.6% chance to kill himself with the KMB.

A spanner with KMB gets .66 hits on average with the KMB and has a 30.55% chance to kill himself. From a pure damage perspective, a KMB is superior to a deff gun, but only a valid choice if you put them into a trukk.
As for the big shoota, according to your own calculations it's an extra wound for 2 points that sometimes add damage and can repair vehicles. An 8th edition ammo runt for 2 points would have been a no-brainer auto-take update.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 addnid wrote:
Yeah killrig not in green means Jidmah probably hasn’t tried it out yet. Once you try it out, you know GW won’t leave it at 190 points for long still.


I don't think anyone has tried it out yet properly. The post is not just based on my own experience, but also on experiences I read across the multiple ork communities I visit.

I do think it has the potential to become a staple for every ork vehicle list. It also has the potential to become a crater at the beginning of turn 1 every game. As such, I do not want to give it a green flag(=every ork player should have this) until people have actually proven that it is as awesome as everyone thought.

Personally I think its main weakness is probably that most of the beast snagga powers are very situational, so you aren't guaranteed to super-charge the laser if you bring more than one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In other related new, a certain russian wiki now has the new ork codex. In accordance to the wishes of the dakka moderatos, please do not post links to pages that might be violating IP rights.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/22 23:01:50


Post by: Keramory


I am known as a lazy ork player and I'm in love that the stompa points went down. Now I can bring my stompy knights.

Behold my 2k (not so) nightmare list of Big Mek's Brainzzap:

Big Mek in mega armor with teleporta/kmb

3 deff dreads.
1 with all 4 klaws
1 with 3 klaws/scortch
1 with 4 rockets
(how I modeled them all)

3 killa kans
2 with rockets, 1 with scortcha

1 morkanaut with KFF
1 gorkanaut
1 very stompy stompa

No idea what to do though for kultur/wl/relic though


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 00:23:43


Post by: koooaei


Either freebootas, goffs or blood axes. Freebootas would have been a go-to option if you had more shooty elements to deal with small enemy squads for your super heavies to get +1 to hit bonus, however you'll not likely get it triggered with shooting before at least 1 of the naughty and will still waste some mellee potential before getting +1 to hit, but hey, if you know your opponent is gona run easy-to-kill msu that will reliably get a squad gunned down by a couple killa kan + dread rokkits, go for it.

Goffs are plain and simple extra mellee hits while blood axes are more subtle with "i've got a plan, ladz", 2+ armor t1 vs shooting outside 18 in case you go 2d, so that you can save kff for t2 or lure your opponent within 18" for your big'n stompy robots to follow up with the charge, and more versatility to fall back and shoot with your gargants or charge with your smaller walkers. In case you get tarpitted with something you can't chew through. And when our Titans degrade, they become progressively worse in mellee. Well, freebootas are

So, in your case, I'd go blood axes. The mind tricks you can pull off redeploying or reserving a stompa with 2 naughty are gold. And those extra tricks are more likely to win you games than simple extra hits in mellee.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 01:05:57


Post by: kingbbobb


 addnid wrote:
Yeah killrig not in green means Jidmah probably hasn’t tried it out yet. Once you try it out, you know GW won’t leave it at 190 points for long still.


lol not a chance in hell.......250 pts during the next update,


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 03:28:54


Post by: gungo


I mean the wazbom is green and it costs more (190-210pts), has less reliable offense, lower toughness, lower wounds, lower save and no massive melee potential. In fact I don’t even think the wazbom is worth being green.

And the psyker Killrig gets to cast 2 powers automatically including smite and most of thier powers are only a warp charge 6 including the squig buffing power. I don’t really see an issue with being able to cast stuff.

I mean sure the wazbom has a -1 to hit built in and a 5++ instead of a 6++ but the Killrig is still more Durable with better more reliable offense. Auto hitting main gun, all other shooting is +1 to hit vs vehicles/monster and reroll hit. I think the Killrig will certainly be nerfed at some point. If you want to lower its rank cause of that maybe.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 03:35:03


Post by: cody.d.


Especially if you pass them the gitbones relic. If you intend to give one of the killrigs just witchfires it could very much be worth it. Fairly useful for sniping characters if you use a few different spells to do so.

But yeah, i'd not be surprised if killrigs get a point increase in the near future. They offer so much. Or the hunta rig gets a points decrease. I'd prefer that option honestly.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 05:11:03


Post by: koooaei


Killrig unarguably green. Especially if you have multiples.

Blastajet - arguably. It's green vs certain matchups. Just like blood axes that are green vs fast mellee armies but are red just cause.

Green is best but red ones go fasta, so, you never know.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 07:26:04


Post by: Scactha


 Jidmah wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yeah killrig not in green means Jidmah probably hasn’t tried it out yet. Once you try it out, you know GW won’t leave it at 190 points for long still.
I don't think anyone has tried it out yet properly. The post is not just based on my own experience, but also on experiences I read across the multiple ork communities I visit.

I do think it has the potential to become a staple for every ork vehicle list. It also has the potential to become a crater at the beginning of turn 1 every game. As such, I do not want to give it a green flag(=every ork player should have this) until people have actually proven that it is as awesome as everyone thought.

Personally I think its main weakness is probably that most of the beast snagga powers are very situational, so you aren't guaranteed to super-charge the laser if you bring more than one.
I would agree with this. There´s something problematic with a 190 points model that brims with options, yet is mostly a brawler piece.

It transports Beastsnagga only. There are guns, but they are iffy (1 shot or D6 Blast on a melee unit?). It´s a anti-tank magnet in an army that thrives on multiple small vehicles. It´s a Psyker, which is good, but also adds an (unnecessary) character to the list, meaning it cancels Abhor the With, raising the Assassinate count, making it even a bigger target. It´s just a bunch of small little things.

It´s also theory, but I can´t really like it (yet). I might be totally wrong too.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 09:03:53


Post by: Jidmah


 koooaei wrote:
Killrig unarguably green. Especially if you have multiples.

Blastajet - arguably. It's green vs certain matchups. Just like blood axes that are green vs fast mellee armies but are red just cause.

Green is best but red ones go fasta, so, you never know.


Since this is the third time you are taking a piss on the first post, feel free to write up a rainbow table yourself and let the other pick it apart. Make sure to not copy any of my work to get a real feel about how much effort that is.
I'm not a fan of these tables. They are for new players and people unfamiliar with orks, and assigning numbers from 1-5 to an entire codex is highly inaccurate. I create them at the request of the community, because people wanted them back when I dropped them. Their primary gain for me from them is starting a discussion.

I have heard your opinion and disagree with it, because the terrible trait hasn't magically become "always take, no matter what" just because everyone has OP dark eldar stuck to their bumpers. I have played literally dozens of games with blood axe buggies and it is a non-trait against pretty much every army that is not drukhari for the reasons outlined in the post. A trait that has almost no effect when playing against marines, sisters, admech, AM, craftworld eldar, knights or death guard has no business being anywhere near green.

The blood axe clan as a whole as improved, but the kulture is unchanged. I see zero reason why it suddenly should go up, especially that far, and your only real argument is "tournaments!!!". And just for the record, having seen tournament results without providing links is not proof.

So either provide some actual reasoning why a worthless trait has jumped from red to green overnight despite not changing, or stop being a whiney about it. It's always easy to take a gak on other people's work and not invest any yourself.

And just for the record, I had already changed the rating of the wazzbom based on your arguments.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 09:19:46


Post by: Blackie


Ratings are just a hint, tiers that are divided by one step are basically on par. As long as there aren't units that are put out of place and clearly belong to a wrong tier (example: kill rig in red) the table is ok. Minor changes to units' ratings are not significant, as it's impossible to make everyone agree about all ratings.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 09:20:03


Post by: Jidmah


gungo wrote:
And the psyker Killrig gets to cast 2 powers automatically including smite and most of thier powers are only a warp charge 6 including the squig buffing power. I don’t really see an issue with being able to cast stuff.


Ah, I was under the impression that you had to be within range of something to actually cast the power, but you can just roll to cast for the main gun and fail to select a target. It cannot target itself with the squig buff though.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 13:32:18


Post by: koooaei


 Jidmah wrote:

The blood axe clan as a whole as improved, but the kulture is unchanged. I see zero reason why it suddenly should go up, especially that far, and your only real argument is "tournaments!!!". And just for the record, having seen tournament results without providing links is not proof.

So either provide some actual reasoning why a worthless trait has jumped from red to green overnight despite not changing, or stop being a whiney about it. It's always easy to take a gak on other people's work and not invest any yourself.


There's an ork player taking 1st with mono blood axe buggy spam. But he specializes in spam.

I'm gona participate in an escalating pts tourney next month if I manage to finish buggies in time. Will take blood axes to feel all the nuances myself. I think that the added versatility is gona be good for scrap jets. Being able to shoot + charge + fall back and shoot again can be quite helpful. But we'll see. It's gona start small with 500 and than go to 1k and than 1500. My collection of buggies is not large enough for 2k but it's possible to finish up 4 scrap jets and 2 squig buggies in time.

I'll write how it goes - good or bad.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 13:39:20


Post by: Jidmah


Link?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 13:41:17


Post by: koooaei


It's gona pop up eventually, it's some large tourney and the player is Money Chim.

He was fielding a ridiculous list of 9 scrap jets and 9 squig buggies. And went undefeated.

Redeploying a total of 9 buggies is very neat. And safe charges with skrapjets profiles are also great.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 13:45:25


Post by: Jidmah


So he is putting the units of scrapjets into reserves and comes out of it with ramming speed?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 14:04:12


Post by: koooaei


Jidmah wrote: It's always easy to take a gak on other people's work and not invest any yourself.


I'm not trying to devalue what you're doing. Trying to provide arguments. Blood axes are my favorite clan and for once in it's recent history it has some great interactions that are actually worth bringing in our competitive meta.
And so, I come here to share my joy, and see them red. Which makes me a very sad war boss. Don't break me 'eart, man.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 14:10:06


Post by: gungo


 Jidmah wrote:
gungo wrote:
And the psyker Killrig gets to cast 2 powers automatically including smite and most of thier powers are only a warp charge 6 including the squig buffing power. I don’t really see an issue with being able to cast stuff.


Ah, I was under the impression that you had to be within range of something to actually cast the power, but you can just roll to cast for the main gun and fail to select a target. It cannot target itself with the squig buff though.

While your defensive sarcasm is great I’m not talking crap about your list I’m providing feedback as you asked… the 12in squig buffing power means you are likely near one of your units but regardless the vast majority of thier powers are 18 inches (Minus frazzle). That isn’t exactly hard to get on a large unit that wants to get close and moves 12in. And even if you fail to cast both psychic powers the main gun is still +1 to hit vs vehicles and monsters..


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 14:13:43


Post by: Jidmah


Hah, my orks used to be all blood axes as well, I know the pain. That's the primary reason why I did so many games with bloodaxe buggies before eventually moving on to another clan.

Keep in mind that red applies to the kultur only. A clan is always the sum of its parts, blood axes have a great stratagem now, a decent relic, a decent named character and an extremely awesome warlord trait.

If you go through the clans and find an average color for all of them, most will probably very similar to each other.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
gungo wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
gungo wrote:
And the psyker Killrig gets to cast 2 powers automatically including smite and most of thier powers are only a warp charge 6 including the squig buffing power. I don’t really see an issue with being able to cast stuff.


Ah, I was under the impression that you had to be within range of something to actually cast the power, but you can just roll to cast for the main gun and fail to select a target. It cannot target itself with the squig buff though.

While your defensive sarcasm is great I’m not talking crap about your list I’m providing feedback as you asked… the 12in squig buffing power means you are likely near one of your units but regardless the vast majority of thier powers are 18 inches (Minus frazzle). That isn’t exactly hard to get on a large unit that wants to get close and moves 12in.


I wasn't being sarcastic - unless I'm missing something "picking the target" happens after manifesting the power. Which means you can just roll for the heck of it and then fail to find a target.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 14:17:22


Post by: Vineheart01


on that note if you averaged all the klan colors they'd probably all be cyan.

Its almost like no single klan is ultimately the best, it just largely depends on your playstyle/preferences since obviously some klans are superior to others in certain areas (badmoonz using squigboyz for instance = LOL)


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 14:19:17


Post by: koooaei


Killrig is also our only unit that's gona see table time that can slow enemy blobs if death with it's ''Eavy lobba.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 14:21:42


Post by: Tomsug




https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-waaagh-on-the-horizon/

But no info about how does it really works. Just goonhammer speculation I guess…

Spoiler:

Darren Jac – Orks – 2nd ✪ Place

Army List - Click to Expand

++ Outrider Detachment -3CP (Orks 2021) [84 PL, 7CP, 1,390pts] ++

+ Configuration [9CP] +

Clan Kultur: Blood Axes

+ HQ [8 PL, -2CP, 145pts] +

Beastboss on Squigosaur [8 PL, -2CP, 145pts]: 4. Brutal but Kunnin, Beastchoppa, Headwoppa’s Killchoppa, Slugga, Squigosaur’s Jaws, Stratagem: Big Boss [-1CP], Stratagem: Extra Gubbinz [-1CP]

+ Elites [10 PL, 105pts] +

Kommandos [8 PL, 80pts] . Boss Nob [10pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. 7x Kommando [70pts]: 7x Choppa, 7x Slugga, 7x Stikkbombs

Mek [2 PL, 25pts]: Choppa, I’ve Got A Plan, Ladz!, Kustom Mega-Slugga, Morgog’s Finkin’ Cap, Warlord

+ Fast Attack [48 PL, 870pts] +

Megatrakk Scrapjets [10 PL, 180pts] . Megatrakk Scrapjet [5 PL, 90pts]: Nose Drill, Rokkit Cannon, 2x Twin Big Shoota, Wing Missiles
. Megatrakk Scrapjet [5 PL, 90pts]: Nose Drill, Rokkit Cannon, 2x Twin Big Shoota, Wing Missiles

Rukkatrukk Squigbuggies [10 PL, 180pts] . Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy [5 PL, 90pts]: Heavy Squig Launcha, Saw Blades, Sawn-off Shotgun, Squig Launcha, Squig Mine, Stikkbombs
. Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy [5 PL, 90pts]: Heavy Squig Launcha, Saw Blades, Sawn-off Shotgun, Squig Launcha, Squig Mine, Stikkbombs

Rukkatrukk Squigbuggies [10 PL, 180pts] . Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy [5 PL, 90pts]: Heavy Squig Launcha, Saw Blades, Sawn-off Shotgun, Squig Launcha, Squig Mine, Stikkbombs
. Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy [5 PL, 90pts]: Heavy Squig Launcha, Saw Blades, Sawn-off Shotgun, Squig Launcha, Squig Mine, Stikkbombs

Rukkatrukk Squigbuggies [10 PL, 180pts] . Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy [5 PL, 90pts]: Heavy Squig Launcha, Saw Blades, Sawn-off Shotgun, Squig Launcha, Squig Mine, Stikkbombs
. Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy [5 PL, 90pts]: Heavy Squig Launcha, Saw Blades, Sawn-off Shotgun, Squig Launcha, Squig Mine, Stikkbombs

Warbikers [4 PL, 75pts] . Boss Nob [25pts]: Choppa, 2x Dakkagun
. 2x Warbiker w/ Choppa [50pts]: 2x Choppa, 4x Dakkagun

Warbikers [4 PL, 75pts] . Boss Nob [25pts]: Choppa, 2x Dakkagun
. 2x Warbiker w/ Choppa [50pts]: 2x Choppa, 4x Dakkagun

+ Heavy Support [18 PL, 270pts] +

Mek Gunz [9 PL, 135pts] . Mek Gun [3 PL, 45pts]: Kustom Mega Kannon
. Mek Gun [3 PL, 45pts]: Kustom Mega Kannon
. Mek Gun [3 PL, 45pts]: Kustom Mega Kannon

Mek Gunz [9 PL, 135pts] . Mek Gun [3 PL, 45pts]: Kustom Mega Kannon
. Mek Gun [3 PL, 45pts]: Kustom Mega Kannon
. Mek Gun [3 PL, 45pts]: Kustom Mega Kannon

++ Outrider Detachment -3CP (Orks 2021) [33 PL, -4CP, 610pts] ++

+ Configuration [-3CP] +

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

+ HQ [6 PL, -1CP, 120pts] +

Deffkilla Wartrike [6 PL, -1CP, 120pts]: 3. ‘Ard as Nails, Killa Jet, Snagga Klaw, Stratagem: Big Boss [-1CP], 3x Twin Boomstick

+ Elites [8 PL, 100pts] +

Kommandos [4 PL, 50pts] . Boss Nob [10pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. 4x Kommando [40pts]: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs

Kommandos [4 PL, 50pts] . Boss Nob [10pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. 4x Kommando [40pts]: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs

+ Fast Attack [19 PL, 390pts] +

DeffKoptas [6 PL, 150pts]: Boom Boyz
. DeffKopta [50pts]: Kopta Rokkits, Slugga, Spinnin’ Blades, Stikkbombs
. DeffKopta [50pts]: Kopta Rokkits, Slugga, Spinnin’ Blades, Stikkbombs
. DeffKopta [50pts]: Kopta Rokkits, Slugga, Spinnin’ Blades, Stikkbombs

Stormboyz [3 PL, 55pts] . Boss Nob [11pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. 4x Stormboy [44pts]: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs

Stormboyz [3 PL, 55pts] . Boss Nob [11pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. 4x Stormboy [44pts]: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs

Stormboyz [3 PL, 55pts] . Boss Nob [11pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. 4x Stormboy [44pts]: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs

Warbikers [4 PL, 75pts] . Boss Nob [25pts]: Choppa, 2x Dakkagun
. 2x Warbiker w/ Choppa [50pts]: 2x Choppa, 4x Dakkagun

++ Total: [117 PL, 3CP, 2,000pts] ++


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 14:23:41


Post by: koooaei


 Tomsug wrote:


https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-waaagh-on-the-horizon/

But no info about how does it really works. Just goonhammer speculation I guess…

Spoiler:

Darren Jac – Orks – 2nd ✪ Place

Army List - Click to Expand

++ Outrider Detachment -3CP (Orks 2021) [84 PL, 7CP, 1,390pts] ++

+ Configuration [9CP] +

Clan Kultur: Blood Axes

+ HQ [8 PL, -2CP, 145pts] +

Beastboss on Squigosaur [8 PL, -2CP, 145pts]: 4. Brutal but Kunnin, Beastchoppa, Headwoppa’s Killchoppa, Slugga, Squigosaur’s Jaws, Stratagem: Big Boss [-1CP], Stratagem: Extra Gubbinz [-1CP]

+ Elites [10 PL, 105pts] +

Kommandos [8 PL, 80pts] . Boss Nob [10pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. 7x Kommando [70pts]: 7x Choppa, 7x Slugga, 7x Stikkbombs

Mek [2 PL, 25pts]: Choppa, I’ve Got A Plan, Ladz!, Kustom Mega-Slugga, Morgog’s Finkin’ Cap, Warlord

+ Fast Attack [48 PL, 870pts] +

Megatrakk Scrapjets [10 PL, 180pts] . Megatrakk Scrapjet [5 PL, 90pts]: Nose Drill, Rokkit Cannon, 2x Twin Big Shoota, Wing Missiles
. Megatrakk Scrapjet [5 PL, 90pts]: Nose Drill, Rokkit Cannon, 2x Twin Big Shoota, Wing Missiles

Rukkatrukk Squigbuggies [10 PL, 180pts] . Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy [5 PL, 90pts]: Heavy Squig Launcha, Saw Blades, Sawn-off Shotgun, Squig Launcha, Squig Mine, Stikkbombs
. Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy [5 PL, 90pts]: Heavy Squig Launcha, Saw Blades, Sawn-off Shotgun, Squig Launcha, Squig Mine, Stikkbombs

Rukkatrukk Squigbuggies [10 PL, 180pts] . Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy [5 PL, 90pts]: Heavy Squig Launcha, Saw Blades, Sawn-off Shotgun, Squig Launcha, Squig Mine, Stikkbombs
. Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy [5 PL, 90pts]: Heavy Squig Launcha, Saw Blades, Sawn-off Shotgun, Squig Launcha, Squig Mine, Stikkbombs

Rukkatrukk Squigbuggies [10 PL, 180pts] . Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy [5 PL, 90pts]: Heavy Squig Launcha, Saw Blades, Sawn-off Shotgun, Squig Launcha, Squig Mine, Stikkbombs
. Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy [5 PL, 90pts]: Heavy Squig Launcha, Saw Blades, Sawn-off Shotgun, Squig Launcha, Squig Mine, Stikkbombs

Warbikers [4 PL, 75pts] . Boss Nob [25pts]: Choppa, 2x Dakkagun
. 2x Warbiker w/ Choppa [50pts]: 2x Choppa, 4x Dakkagun

Warbikers [4 PL, 75pts] . Boss Nob [25pts]: Choppa, 2x Dakkagun
. 2x Warbiker w/ Choppa [50pts]: 2x Choppa, 4x Dakkagun

+ Heavy Support [18 PL, 270pts] +

Mek Gunz [9 PL, 135pts] . Mek Gun [3 PL, 45pts]: Kustom Mega Kannon
. Mek Gun [3 PL, 45pts]: Kustom Mega Kannon
. Mek Gun [3 PL, 45pts]: Kustom Mega Kannon

Mek Gunz [9 PL, 135pts] . Mek Gun [3 PL, 45pts]: Kustom Mega Kannon
. Mek Gun [3 PL, 45pts]: Kustom Mega Kannon
. Mek Gun [3 PL, 45pts]: Kustom Mega Kannon

++ Outrider Detachment -3CP (Orks 2021) [33 PL, -4CP, 610pts] ++

+ Configuration [-3CP] +

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

+ HQ [6 PL, -1CP, 120pts] +

Deffkilla Wartrike [6 PL, -1CP, 120pts]: 3. ‘Ard as Nails, Killa Jet, Snagga Klaw, Stratagem: Big Boss [-1CP], 3x Twin Boomstick

+ Elites [8 PL, 100pts] +

Kommandos [4 PL, 50pts] . Boss Nob [10pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. 4x Kommando [40pts]: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs

Kommandos [4 PL, 50pts] . Boss Nob [10pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. 4x Kommando [40pts]: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs

+ Fast Attack [19 PL, 390pts] +

DeffKoptas [6 PL, 150pts]: Boom Boyz
. DeffKopta [50pts]: Kopta Rokkits, Slugga, Spinnin’ Blades, Stikkbombs
. DeffKopta [50pts]: Kopta Rokkits, Slugga, Spinnin’ Blades, Stikkbombs
. DeffKopta [50pts]: Kopta Rokkits, Slugga, Spinnin’ Blades, Stikkbombs

Stormboyz [3 PL, 55pts] . Boss Nob [11pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. 4x Stormboy [44pts]: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs

Stormboyz [3 PL, 55pts] . Boss Nob [11pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. 4x Stormboy [44pts]: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs

Stormboyz [3 PL, 55pts] . Boss Nob [11pts]: Choppa, Slugga, Stikkbombs
. 4x Stormboy [44pts]: 4x Choppa, 4x Slugga, 4x Stikkbombs

Warbikers [4 PL, 75pts] . Boss Nob [25pts]: Choppa, 2x Dakkagun
. 2x Warbiker w/ Choppa [50pts]: 2x Choppa, 4x Dakkagun

++ Total: [117 PL, 3CP, 2,000pts] ++


That's another list but it also went pretty good with blood axes.
So... Teal, I guess?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or at least yellow.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 14:28:25


Post by: gungo


I’m cool with the ratings now was mostly just confused w wazbom being higher then the rig. When it did less for more points. And I’m not saying the rig is a must take. Outside of buggy spam it becomes a big target.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 14:36:10


Post by: Jidmah


gungo wrote:
I’m cool with the ratings now was mostly just confused w wazbom being higher then the rig. When it did less for more points. And I’m not saying the rig is a must take. Outside of buggy spam it becomes a big target.


I changed that two days ago *whacks gungo with a grot prod*


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 14:43:03


Post by: koooaei


Old orks live in the past.

Also, what about flash gits. Anyone ran them in at least semi-competitive games?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 14:43:51


Post by: Vineheart01


im concerned to mess with them since i suspect theyre still supposed to be freeboota locked


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 14:44:10


Post by: SemperMortis


 Jidmah wrote:

So they gained an extra wound, the ability to move, more shots at 24" and a big shoota for two points. That's not a nerf.
The new KMB for just 5 points also isn't a terrible deal.


They gained an extra wound, the ability to move, more reliable shots at 24' and a big shoota for 2pts. They also got beaten to death with Morale, lost ranged dmg, and are just as bad as last edition because they are massively over priced for very little dmg output. 5 lootas at max range are 8 shots, 2.66 hits and against a Marine profile that is 1.7 dead Marines, for 85pts that is not a good return on investment. And if you really want to move them into 24' range they will die on your opponents turn. GW has effectively turned a ranged heavy support unit into a crappier version of a suicide unit. GW has Accidentally? forced Lootas into the same category as tankbustas. The "new" KMB for just 5pts isn't a terrible upgrade...except you are already paying 17pts for the Spanner...which is effectively the exact same as the 11pt Burna Spanner. So the Burna spanner armed with a KMB is 16pts, the Loota Spanner is 22pts. While Burna's aren't super competitive in my opinion (way better than before mind you) they are absolutely the better option if you really want some KMBs.


 Jidmah wrote:
Outside of the lootastar, which was already dead an buried with the start of 9th, there was no reason to field lootas as anything but MSU already. In fact, 9 models was optimal because of blasts and the clever spanna stratagem. So when you lost 3 lootas for the 50% chance to fail you already were below the ld6 threshold, meaning mob rule actually got better for lootas.
But alas, lootas never really benefited from mob rule to begin with because they were nowhere near large mobs or inside transports for most of the game.
I really want to point this out. Yes, Lootas were DEAD AND BURIED as soon as the loota bomb went away. Why? Because LOOTAS WERE TRASH! something I had been saying for all of 8th edition. If you didn't invest all your CP into them, you were better off not taking them at all. So think about that, A loota which had better ranged firepower at 25-48' range than it does now was not worth taking at all because of how crap it was. So GW addressed this by....reducing its max range dmg, giving it a paltry 3ppm price cut (15%) getting rid of the stratagems which the Lootas used and required you to take a spanner for hte same price even though it didn't wield the same weapon system...And it provides zero benefit to the mob unlike a Sgt in a Devastator squad which at least gives one model better BS. And no, Mob rule/leadership has not gotten better for lootas, because if nothing else there was usually a mob of something else nearby or failing that a character which could kill D3 models to auto-pass morale, where as now you have to pay 2CP for the honor of killing your own models




 Jidmah wrote:
I'm not willing to math that out in detail, but I'm sure the one big shoota hit amounts to some damage as well which is only slightly worse than the .5555 lota hits lost.
The Big shoota is out of range for the first 12', when it is in range its 1 hit at S5 no AP 1dmg, so no, it does not account for the 0.55 lost loota hits. The Big shoota is just another example of GW not understanding the ork army. GET STUCK IN AND GET 5 SHOTS! Also, no advancing and shooting. WTF!? Regardless, we can all at least agree the spanner is just crap


 Jidmah wrote:
They didn't. They were 5 points before and are now slightly harder get through if you want to get to the unit behind it.
Lootas weren't taken after the loota bomb went away, we have all agreed on that, and when it went away grots were 3ppm and considered over priced. Grots going to 5ppm is a nerf in itself, and for the lootas means you really can't afford to foot slog them. Especially with the grots abysmal leadership and the fact that old Grot shields meant you had to wound the Loota on its T4 defensive profile where as now you have to target the grot first on its T3 profile.

 Jidmah wrote:
Sorry, but this is a bit to hand-wavey. Even if you completely ignore anything but damage output (which is flawed by itself already), at 24" you now get 5 loota hits instead of 3 for your 100/102 points plus 1 or 1.4444 big shoota hits.
In addition, lootas can now move to line up shots without investing CP or losing half their firepower, so you also gain
Again, going back to the main premise that nobody took Lootas after the Loota bomb went away, if you are now required to put Lootas in a 70pt trukk to get any hope out of them past turn 1 you have just been nerfed, especially since the trukk itself does nothing outside of protection and movement. Sadly, they even got rid of the loot it strat so if hte trukk explodes you can give the unit inside +1 Armor. As far as 24' range getting 5 hits. Yes but you could do that from max range with old lootas, albeit it only 1/3rd of the time. The increase in reliability is nice, don't get me wrong, I just don't think it scaled with how deadly and durable the game has become. How many targets now have -1dmg or ignore the first pip of AP? Heck, Ironically, Ramshackle is ideally suited to weakening Auto-cannons But I will readily admit that lootas are now more foot mobile...but that is fairly irrelevant because again, you can't foot slog them and hope they survive longer than 1 turn.

 Jidmah wrote:
A spanner with KMB gets .66 hits on average with the KMB and has a 30.55% chance to kill himself. From a pure damage perspective, a KMB is superior to a deff gun, but only a valid choice if you put them into a trukk.
As for the big shoota, according to your own calculations it's an extra wound for 2 points that sometimes add damage and can repair vehicles. An 8th edition ammo runt for 2 points would have been a no-brainer auto-take update.
It is in fact an extra wound, but its also not because as we all agree, lootas were CRAP in 8th and only competitive in 8th with the loota bomb which was good IN SPITE OF how bad lootas were as opposed to because of how good they were. So giving them what amounts to a 2pt extra wound doesn't fix their inherent problem which is being way to fragile while also not being able to put out enough dakka to make them worth taking.



Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 14:44:18


Post by: Jidmah


Well, they haven't changed much outside of gaining cultures, but I can't wait to try them out as bad moons.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 15:18:36


Post by: Grimskul


 Jidmah wrote:
Well, they haven't changed much outside of gaining cultures, but I can't wait to try them out as bad moons.


Yeah, having a functional 30" range with a smaller board size makes them much easier to park in a firing lane and not have to move for most of the game. Showin Off is also not a bad strat to use on them assuming you've been forced out of your transport, combo's decently well with Shoot Twice FG strat.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 15:40:55


Post by: Jidmah


@Semper: I think you are misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. Lootas aren't suddenly great, I think we mathed that out together. But they are better now than before. And they were literally never great at shooting marines, so please stop bringing that up. You are also reducing your entire argument to 5 lootas shooting in the 36-48" corridor, which has already been pointed out be a largely irrelevant edge case.

And I do think that T5, being able to move and an extra wound solve some problems for them. Unlike boyz, they can just get around any morale issues by fielding max units of 8-9, which is optimal anyways to dodge the second spanna.

Last but not least your points evaluation is flawed. If you assume a unit of 9, it now has 8 lootas for 153. Before 8 lootas were 160. So if you do it right, you get more firepower, more wounds, more toughness and more flexibility for less points while being able to ignore the loss of old mob rule and potentially benefit from the new one. You could even toss in a KMB and still pay less than you did before.

In regards to stratagems, moar dakka can add .3333 hits per loota in that zone you always expect them to be in (old moar dakka was .1111 hits per loota), the bad moonz stratagem adds .3333 hits per loota (old shoot twice one added .6666 hits per loota) but also costs half as many CP and the deff skulls wreckas side-graded from re-rolls to +1 to wound.
You also no longer need to pay CP to re-roll the number of hits or for clever spanna.

Basically instead of paying 5 CP for 1.297 extra hits per loota (0.2594 per CP), you now get 0.8333 extra hits per lootas for just 3 CP (0.2777 hits per CP).

Bottom line, there is no objective evidence of lootas being nerfed. And once again, I do not consider them great, have a look at what other units sit around in the blue category. In my mind, that category was the "works well in crusade" bucket.
The finally can contribute in a meaningful way to your army, and there are definitely multiple units which can do the same thing much better - but those aren't in the blue category.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 16:01:07


Post by: SemperMortis


 Jidmah wrote:
Spoiler:
@Semper: I think you are misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. Lootas aren't suddenly great, I think we mathed that out together. But they are better now than before. And they were literally never great at shooting marines, so please stop bringing that up. You are also reducing your entire argument to 5 lootas shooting in the 36-48" corridor, which has already been pointed out be a largely irrelevant edge case.

And I do think that T5, being able to move and an extra wound solve some problems for them. Unlike boyz, they can just get around any morale issues by fielding max units of 8-9, which is optimal anyways to dodge the second spanna.

Last but not least your points evaluation is flawed. If you assume a unit of 9, it now has 8 lootas for 153. Before 8 lootas were 160. So if you do it right, you get more firepower, more wounds, more toughness and more flexibility for less points while being able to ignore the loss of old mob rule and potentially benefit from the new one. You could even toss in a KMB and still pay less than you did before.

In regards to stratagems, moar dakka can add .3333 hits per loota in that zone you always expect them to be in (old moar dakka was .1111 hits per loota), the bad moonz stratagem adds .3333 hits per loota (old shoot twice one added .6666 hits per loota) but also costs half as many CP and the deff skulls wreckas side-graded from re-rolls to +1 to wound.
You also no longer need to pay CP to re-roll the number of hits or for clever spanna.

Basically instead of paying 5 CP for 1.297 extra hits per loota (0.2594 per CP), you now get 0.8333 extra hits per lootas for just 3 CP (0.2777 hits per CP).

Bottom line, there is no objective evidence of lootas being nerfed. And once again, I do not consider them great, have a look at what other units sit around in the blue category. In my mind, that category was the "works well in crusade" bucket.
The finally can contribute in a meaningful way to your army, and there are definitely multiple units which can do the same thing much better - but those aren't in the blue category.


I think you are misunderstanding me entirely. You are the one who bumped them up a tier. Specifically from "Yellow Tier - These do work in general but either cost too much for what they do or lock you out of bringing much better choices." to "Blue Tier - These do what they are supposed to do, but aren't the most competitive options for their roles."

They lost maximum dmg output, they lost long range dmg they lost morale they lost out in general. Yes they gained more reliable 2 shots, but it averaged 2.33 (including DDD) already. Even when it rolled a 1-2 it averaged 1.16 shots, and you as often rolled a 5 or 6 so you went up to 3.5 shots. Now it maxes out at 3 shots but only at half range and yes this is more reliable, it doesn't help you enough in my opinion to justify bumping it up a tier.

This is what you said of Lootas.
Lootas Lootas can now move and shoot, get a guaranteed two shots plus another one at half range but have to take mandatory spannas per 5. This allows them to rider transports without losing firepower, which they definitely should because they still die like flies despite T5.

Moving is largely irrelevant since you can't footslog them because they die immediately. Guaranteed 2 shots is a reliability buff, but on average its LESS shots than before except at Half range which is your next point. You mention the transports which I agree 100% in, but that is fringe at best since the trukk also went up in price and at that point you are paying for a unit of lootas and a 70pt bunker for it to drive around in.

I think lootas were trash tier in 8th after loota bomb went away...i don't see them as any better now. And your arguments that they are haven't remotely convinced me otherwise. If anything its just you arguing that since they can get guaranteed 3 shots while riding in a trukk they are better...but I could pay CP to let them shoot twice before, now I can't. I would argue the difference between 2 CP and 70pts is about the same.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 16:11:50


Post by: Afrodactyl


SemperMortis wrote:
I think you are misunderstanding me entirely. You are the one who bumped them up a tier. Specifically from "Yellow Tier - These do work in general but either cost too much for what they do or lock you out of bringing much better choices." to "Blue Tier - These do what they are supposed to do, but aren't the most competitive options for their roles."

They lost maximum dmg output, they lost long range dmg they lost morale they lost out in general. Yes they gained more reliable 2 shots, but it averaged 2.33 (including DDD) already. Even when it rolled a 1-2 it averaged 1.16 shots, and you as often rolled a 5 or 6 so you went up to 3.5 shots. Now it maxes out at 3 shots but only at half range and yes this is more reliable, it doesn't help you enough in my opinion to justify bumping it up a tier.

This is what you said of Lootas.
Lootas Lootas can now move and shoot, get a guaranteed two shots plus another one at half range but have to take mandatory spannas per 5. This allows them to rider transports without losing firepower, which they definitely should because they still die like flies despite T5.

Moving is largely irrelevant since you can't footslog them because they die immediately. Guaranteed 2 shots is a reliability buff, but on average its LESS shots than before except at Half range which is your next point. You mention the transports which I agree 100% in, but that is fringe at best since the trukk also went up in price and at that point you are paying for a unit of lootas and a 70pt bunker for it to drive around in.

I think lootas were trash tier in 8th after loota bomb went away...i don't see them as any better now. And your arguments that they are haven't remotely convinced me otherwise. If anything its just you arguing that since they can get guaranteed 3 shots while riding in a trukk they are better...but I could pay CP to let them shoot twice before, now I can't. I would argue the difference between 2 CP and 70pts is about the same.


Lootas defintely got better as a standalone unit. They don't eat all of your CP any more, and no longer need a load of gretchin babysitters. Granted, they aren't going to sit behind grots and vaporise half of your opponents army any more, but we didn't have that at the start of 9th anyway and have other units for that, and being more consistent on their own has made them go from being a bad choice to a niche unit.

Them being able to move and shoot without penalty is also a pretty big deal, because when your targets wander out of line of sight they can just move over and keep shooting at full effect. No one is expecting them to footslog up the board with your other infantry because that's dumb. And the half range thing is still basically most of the board these days.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 16:16:39


Post by: Beardedragon


Lootas got an extra wound? I cant see that on the statistics.

Unless you meant they got an extra model for the same price or something i dunno


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 16:17:08


Post by: SemperMortis


 Afrodactyl wrote:


Lootas defintely got better as a standalone unit. They don't eat all of your CP any more, and no longer need a load of gretchin babysitters. Granted, they aren't going to sit behind grots and vaporise half of your opponents army any more, but we didn't have that at the start of 9th anyway and have other units for that, and being more consistent on their own has made them go from being a bad choice to a niche unit.

Them being able to move and shoot without penalty is also a pretty big deal, because when your targets wander out of line of sight they can just move over and keep shooting at full effect. No one is expecting them to footslog up the board with your other infantry because that's dumb. And the half range thing is still basically most of the board these days.


The point of the tier system is to rate them strictly in a competitive mindset. I don't see them as anymore competitive. And as you pointed out "they got better as a standalone unit" but only at short range and they got SIGNIFICANTLY worse in terms of buffing potential. So who cares that they got marginally better without buffs at short range when nobody is going to take them anyway because they actually got significantly worse in terms of dmg potential.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 16:42:18


Post by: Madjob


Deffguns definitely needed some oomph on their new Dakka profile. Autocannon type weapons have lost a lot of sheen lately with all the -1 damage sources out there these days, so an entire unit armed with them (with Ork BS) is not very intimidating. Dakka 4/3 or even 5/3 was probably a better option to make them a worthy threat.

And I hadn't considered that price discrepancy for KMB spanners, just ridiculous.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 16:45:15


Post by: SemperMortis


Madjob wrote:
Deffguns definitely needed some oomph on their new Dakka profile. Autocannon type weapons have lost a lot of sheen lately with all the -1 damage sources out there these days, so an entire unit armed with them (with Ork BS) is not very intimidating. Dakka 4/3 or even 5/3 was probably a better option to make them a worthy threat.

And I hadn't considered that price discrepancy for KMB spanners, just ridiculous.


I honestly feel like GW doesn't have any Ork players on their rules team, or if they do, they are the type of player who thinks Orkz shouldn't be competitive but just fluffy and fun and die in droves as a great NPC race to beat on to really "Forge that narrative".


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 17:20:39


Post by: Afrodactyl


SemperMortis wrote:
 Afrodactyl wrote:


Lootas defintely got better as a standalone unit. They don't eat all of your CP any more, and no longer need a load of gretchin babysitters. Granted, they aren't going to sit behind grots and vaporise half of your opponents army any more, but we didn't have that at the start of 9th anyway and have other units for that, and being more consistent on their own has made them go from being a bad choice to a niche unit.

Them being able to move and shoot without penalty is also a pretty big deal, because when your targets wander out of line of sight they can just move over and keep shooting at full effect. No one is expecting them to footslog up the board with your other infantry because that's dumb. And the half range thing is still basically most of the board these days.


The point of the tier system is to rate them strictly in a competitive mindset. I don't see them as anymore competitive. And as you pointed out "they got better as a standalone unit" but only at short range and they got SIGNIFICANTLY worse in terms of buffing potential. So who cares that they got marginally better without buffs at short range when nobody is going to take them anyway because they actually got significantly worse in terms of dmg potential.


I completely agree with you about them not being a competitive unit, their battlefield role is done by a single buggy and because of all the other things you get on a buggy profile the loota mob has no reason to be taken unlesss you have serious issues about taking any kind of vehicle in your army.

A lot of things lost their buffing potential as well, we basically lost most of our buffs except for Flash gitz shooting twice and a thousand sources of +1 to hit for some bizarre reason.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 17:48:29


Post by: koooaei


If we're talking proposed rules, i'd make lootas heavy 2 with d3 damage for 13ppm with no mandatory mek and flashgitz Dakka 5/3 with their strat giving +1d and AP instead of shoot twice. This way we'd have one ranged cheap-ish unit that doesn't deal much damage but can sit all across the board in some ruin dropping autocannon-like pod shots with 1 in 3 chance to deal 2 damage to -1d opponents that we face a lot. And another more elite unit that wants to get closer and can make their guns extremely deadly for 2cp and not just vs the closest opponent. But that'd force them to disembark ans get smoked next turn. But they'd not loose their deadliness for moving.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another thing about mini meks. They're characters, are one of the cheapest around and can also perform actions. Now with how look out sir works, you can have a unit of grots hidden out of Los while mek can perform actions in the open and while he is within 3 of grots and further from the enemy than ANY other friendly unit - not necessarily this grots, he can just hold a point with no danger of being shot to bits.

Now that doesn't work every time and with every objective but it's very common in tourney makes to have some Los just close to a point but out of it's reach for a regular squad. But if you add this 3", you can so it. And it can be the thing earning you victory.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 19:29:51


Post by: Nora


Hi
I am in a sort of dilemma and would be happy for some input from you guys.
I plan to run a Groff list with multiple Stormboyz and Kommandos units. the problem is what HQ to choose... This is for a 1000-1500 points list. At first I looked into the Warboss or Warboss in Mega Armour in order to get access to the +1 to hit aura, but both these options are rather slow so I am not sure that these are very good. It does not help to run them as Trukkboyz since this will mess up their keywords so that the other units wont get the to-hit bonus anyway. Alternatively I could run the Squig-Boss, it a bigger threat but will probably not be able to charge the first turn anyway and will not give any to-hit bonus to the named units. Third option is to use Ghazghull but this looks like the least appealing option for me.
Cheers!


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 19:31:16


Post by: koooaei


Squigbosses are easilly the best available beat stick around. They're 3 times choppier than ghaz point-for-point.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 20:28:46


Post by: Beardedragon


I would definitely not make lootas 2 shots each. A loota is the the epitomy of ork infantry shooting, the very personification of the word "Dakka" in infantry form.

They are the type of infantry shooting that should have the most amount of shots. More than flash gitz.

Flash gitz lorewise is meant to be quality shooting, Lootas are quantity shooting. They should have 5 shots each.

Dakka 4/5 id say.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 20:51:16


Post by: Blackie


Lootas are certainly improved with the dakka profile, heavy weapons are bad for infantries. Units of 10-15 dudes that fire from the corner and never move are impractical in 9th thanks to terrain. The ability of moving and shoot with no penalty is invaluable, so is cutting randomness on the number of shots.

If anything it's the autocannon profile that aged, but I guess it's hard to improve it while keeping some purpose for the rokkit launcha. Possibly their heavy support role aged as well, they could be elites once again now that they don't even fire heavy weapons.

Flash gitz would benefit a lot if their weapons get a dakka profile as well.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 21:36:38


Post by: gungo


 Nora wrote:
Hi
I am in a sort of dilemma and would be happy for some input from you guys.
I plan to run a Groff list with multiple Stormboyz and Kommandos units. the problem is what HQ to choose... This is for a 1000-1500 points list. At first I looked into the Warboss or Warboss in Mega Armour in order to get access to the +1 to hit aura, but both these options are rather slow so I am not sure that these are very good. It does not help to run them as Trukkboyz since this will mess up their keywords so that the other units wont get the to-hit bonus anyway. Alternatively I could run the Squig-Boss, it a bigger threat but will probably not be able to charge the first turn anyway and will not give any to-hit bonus to the named units. Third option is to use Ghazghull but this looks like the least appealing option for me.
Cheers!

Warboss on bike is fast and can Waagh with the caveat that this unit may change wildly in the faq.
Zagstrukk also isn’t bad in a goff stormboy heavy list… you can take a full 15 man squad of storm boys or multiple and largely not worry to much about morale losses because most times you won’t lose more then 2 with him nearby but he has no + hit aura…
Also I don’t think the warboss variant in a trukk boy transport messes up keywords but someone feel free to correct me.

Beyond that you are correct the squigboss is just slow enough not to make a first turn charge.
I kinda wish the mega/meka dread was an HQ choice for a true dreadmob HQ.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Jidmah wrote:
gungo wrote:
I’m cool with the ratings now was mostly just confused w wazbom being higher then the rig. When it did less for more points. And I’m not saying the rig is a must take. Outside of buggy spam it becomes a big target.


I changed that two days ago *whacks gungo with a grot prod*

At this point we need to wait for the faq and campaign preview rules, since things can wildly change depending on how they rule specialist nobs and change FW units.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 22:09:06


Post by: Nym


What do we think about the Big Mek in MA boyz ?
I plan to use mine with Tellyporta Blasta and either Da dead shiny shoota or an Extra kustom KMB (and maybe Da fixer's upperz). What do you think fits the meta best ?

I'm also thinking about giving him Opportunist... Maybe. But I'm not sure it's worth the CP.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 22:14:54


Post by: xttz


 Blackie wrote:
Lootas are certainly improved with the dakka profile, heavy weapons are bad for infantries. Units of 10-15 dudes that fire from the corner and never move are impractical in 9th thanks to terrain. The ability of moving and shoot with no penalty is invaluable, so is cutting randomness on the number of shots.

If anything it's the autocannon profile that aged, but I guess it's hard to improve it while keeping some purpose for the rokkit launcha. Possibly their heavy support role aged as well, they could be elites once again now that they don't even fire heavy weapons.


I made a point along these lines in another thread - the issue is probably less about Lootas being bad and more to do with the rest of the game power-creeping past classic heavy weapon infantry. The 9E meta skews towards units that are mobile, while many FOTM units also have great defensive gimmicks like -1 damage, ignoring AP 1/2, transhuman, or -1 to hit. All of those hurt a BS5+ S7 AP-1 D2 weapon profile.

Meanwhile many of the codex units they're competing with (like buggies) are highly mobile with a built-in -1 damage and can use melee when needed. That's before factoring in strats & speedwaagh benefits.

It doesn't mean Lootas are terrible, but does beg the question why you'd take a unit that does X when other units can do X, Y and Z.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 22:17:22


Post by: Afrodactyl


 Nym wrote:
What do we think about the Big Mek in MA boyz ?
I plan to use mine with Tellyporta Blasta and either Da dead shiny shoota or an Extra kustom KMB (and maybe Da fixer's upperz). What do you think fits the meta best ?

I'm also thinking about giving him Opportunist... Maybe. But I'm not sure it's worth the CP.


Mega mek with DDSS is actually really good if you have a spare HQ slot and CP. Both the KFF and the TPB are both viable picks, but I would personally lean towards the TPB.

Opportunist will probably be worthwhile if you have the spare CP and actually want to go character hunting with him.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 23:12:55


Post by: cody.d.


 Afrodactyl wrote:
 Nym wrote:
What do we think about the Big Mek in MA boyz ?
I plan to use mine with Tellyporta Blasta and either Da dead shiny shoota or an Extra kustom KMB (and maybe Da fixer's upperz). What do you think fits the meta best ?

I'm also thinking about giving him Opportunist... Maybe. But I'm not sure it's worth the CP.


Mega mek with DDSS is actually really good if you have a spare HQ slot and CP. Both the KFF and the TPB are both viable picks, but I would personally lean towards the TPB.

Opportunist will probably be worthwhile if you have the spare CP and actually want to go character hunting with him.


Yeah, used a DDSS megamek on the weekend. He was goffs so out of his element, but still great for putting a dent in MEQ units. I got lucky and managed to clear out a 5 man rubric squad in one round. Great times!

If you take a megamek for the KFF they're pretty good for adding some firesupport after reducing the first turn shooting with the stratagem. Though a KMB is still some good dakka, just more swingy by nature.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/23 23:21:23


Post by: gungo


 Nym wrote:
What do we think about the Big Mek in MA boyz ?
I plan to use mine with Tellyporta Blasta and either Da dead shiny shoota or an Extra kustom KMB (and maybe Da fixer's upperz). What do you think fits the meta best ?

I'm also thinking about giving him Opportunist... Maybe. But I'm not sure it's worth the CP.

It’s hard to find a secondary HQ that fills a role in your army for a battalion.
If you have ghaz… Makari is a great choice.
If you don’t have ghaz your choice is basically the mega Mek as most other choices don’t seem to be as point efficient..

With the mega Mek you either lean into his shooting profile with a da shiny shoota (better if he jumps into a trukk boys transport) with or without the tellyporta or you take da krushin armor with tellyporta blasta for a more defensive profile.. He’s also the only decent choice if you decide you want to blow up a kff turn 1. He’s essentially good by default but I wouldn’t go out of my way to put him in a list.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/24 04:56:17


Post by: Tomsug


 Nym wrote:
What do we think about the Big Mek in MA boyz ?
I plan to use mine with Tellyporta Blasta and either Da dead shiny shoota or an Extra kustom KMB (and maybe Da fixer's upperz). What do you think fits the meta best ?

I'm also thinking about giving him Opportunist... Maybe. But I'm not sure it's worth the CP.


I like the price, profile and I love the model I can create, but I don 't see the way how to use them now. Slow and short range. Needs some transport - increase his price. I think I see better and more flexible options how to spent a points or what HQ to take.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/24 05:00:54


Post by: cody.d.


Really wish GW let meganobz act like actual terminators. Dakka at full range and ignore heavy modifiers. Would help Kustom shootas and Kombi rokkits hold their own.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/24 05:15:43


Post by: koooaei


I've run tellyporta mek with dss. Great unit. I used a trukk but footslogging alongside buggies is also ok - obviously, tellyporta ain't working t1 in this case.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/24 06:29:44


Post by: Blackie


 xttz wrote:


It doesn't mean Lootas are terrible, but does beg the question why you'd take a unit that does X when other units can do X, Y and Z.


Honest answer: because I have X and not Y and Z models. It's the same dilemma tons of SM units have, those with countless alternatives to serve the same purpose. Model's availability in real life is a thing. To me the greatest issue lootas have (and flash gitz with them) is the heavy support role; I'm playing lists with 0-4 HS but 3 solo mek gunz and a BW are staples in my style of playing. If they were elites I'd likely play them quite regularly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Nym wrote:
What do we think about the Big Mek in MA boyz ?
I plan to use mine with Tellyporta Blasta and either Da dead shiny shoota or an Extra kustom KMB (and maybe Da fixer's upperz). What do you think fits the meta best ?

I'm also thinking about giving him Opportunist... Maybe. But I'm not sure it's worth the CP.


I think BM big mek with relic shoota is a very good unit, especially with turn 1 KFF shenanigan. Deathskull one with Opportunist is also worth a shot, if you want to play with that klan anyway. Adding a WL to him for 1 CP is always a good option IMHO, as BM I'm giving him the invuln and +1 save. Opprtunist also gives you some chance to regain CPs.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/24 07:29:48


Post by: Beardedragon


Im my current speed waaagh list i have my Big Mek with shiny shoota and tellyport blasta in a trukk along side trukk boys (which i would assume i can do as the trukk doesnt change keyword).

So when they charge out and run towards the enemy my big mek remains in the trukk and shoots out.

That also negates the fact that hes only movement 4.

Im not sure if its a good or a bad idea, but so far its the best i could come up with.

I wonder if its a fuckup that the stormboyz nob cant carry a big choppa and only a Powerklaw? Maybe that gets FAQ'ed. but i expect not.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/24 08:20:08


Post by: xttz


 Blackie wrote:
 xttz wrote:


It doesn't mean Lootas are terrible, but does beg the question why you'd take a unit that does X when other units can do X, Y and Z.


Honest answer: because I have X and not Y and Z models. It's the same dilemma tons of SM units have, those with countless alternatives to serve the same purpose. Model's availability in real life is a thing. To me the greatest issue lootas have (and flash gitz with them) is the heavy support role; I'm playing lists with 0-4 HS but 3 solo mek gunz and a BW are staples in my style of playing. If they were elites I'd likely play them quite regularly.


Oh I fully agree, it was a bit of a rhetorical question to be honest. There are others in this thread with far more established Ork collections who would always want to take the optimal units, but of course that's not everyone.

Personally I have no interest in buggies as the models don't inspire me in the same way as the rest of the Ork range. I'm in the process of buying & painting my first Orks right now. It's unlikely I'll be able to field a fully painted 2000pt army before the next major points / FAQ update. The last thing I want to do is drop a bunch of cash and several weeks painting models that will likely eat a points hike before I get any real use from them. Instead I'm focusing on my favourite units as a foundation for the army.

On the advice of someone here I went and picked up a spare box of the old Boyz to put aside before they went OOP, on the expectation that I'll likely get Lootas at some point in the future and be able to make the Burnas too.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/24 15:09:09


Post by: R1ncewind


Beardedragon wrote:
Im my current speed waaagh list i have my Big Mek with shiny shoota and tellyport blasta in a trukk along side trukk boys (which i would assume i can do as the trukk doesnt change keyword).

So when they charge out and run towards the enemy my big mek remains in the trukk and shoots out.

That also negates the fact that hes only movement 4.

Im not sure if its a good or a bad idea, but so far its the best i could come up with.


Did try the same yesterday. Since the trukk boys give the trukk +1 to hit and then get the +1 from the trukk, it also applies to the mek, right?
BS3 opportunist shots


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/24 15:11:35


Post by: Grimskul


 R1ncewind wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
Im my current speed waaagh list i have my Big Mek with shiny shoota and tellyport blasta in a trukk along side trukk boys (which i would assume i can do as the trukk doesnt change keyword).

So when they charge out and run towards the enemy my big mek remains in the trukk and shoots out.

That also negates the fact that hes only movement 4.

Im not sure if its a good or a bad idea, but so far its the best i could come up with.


Did try the same yesterday. Since the trukk boys give the trukk +1 to hit and then get the +1 from the trukk, it also applies to the mek, right?
BS3 opportunist shots


Unfortunately, Trukk Boyz can't apply to Big Meks since they aren't one of the units with the requisite Keyword to get that buff.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/24 15:17:01


Post by: R1ncewind


 Grimskul wrote:
 R1ncewind wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
Im my current speed waaagh list i have my Big Mek with shiny shoota and tellyport blasta in a trukk along side trukk boys (which i would assume i can do as the trukk doesnt change keyword).

So when they charge out and run towards the enemy my big mek remains in the trukk and shoots out.

That also negates the fact that hes only movement 4.

Im not sure if its a good or a bad idea, but so far its the best i could come up with.


Did try the same yesterday. Since the trukk boys give the trukk +1 to hit and then get the +1 from the trukk, it also applies to the mek, right?
BS3 opportunist shots


Unfortunately, Trukk Boyz can't apply to Big Meks since they aren't one of the units with the requisite Keyword to get that buff.


It can not get the keyword, but it should be able to profit from an unit of trukk boys inside the same trukk, since the trukk boy +1 to hit applies to the trukk they are in and as such to all models inside the trukk as well


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/24 15:41:09


Post by: Grimskul


 R1ncewind wrote:
 Grimskul wrote:
 R1ncewind wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
Im my current speed waaagh list i have my Big Mek with shiny shoota and tellyport blasta in a trukk along side trukk boys (which i would assume i can do as the trukk doesnt change keyword).

So when they charge out and run towards the enemy my big mek remains in the trukk and shoots out.

That also negates the fact that hes only movement 4.

Im not sure if its a good or a bad idea, but so far its the best i could come up with.


Did try the same yesterday. Since the trukk boys give the trukk +1 to hit and then get the +1 from the trukk, it also applies to the mek, right?
BS3 opportunist shots


Unfortunately, Trukk Boyz can't apply to Big Meks since they aren't one of the units with the requisite Keyword to get that buff.


It can not get the keyword, but it should be able to profit from an unit of trukk boys inside the same trukk, since the trukk boy +1 to hit applies to the trukk they are in and as such to all models inside the trukk as well


It's hard to say atm, because its not clear how they'll be errata'ing how specialist mobz work currently. As it is, trukk boyz don't work as written, but I don't know if they'll allow both a KLAN unit and a specialist mob unit in the same trukk due to differing keywords.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/24 15:48:12


Post by: R1ncewind


 Grimskul wrote:
Spoiler:
 R1ncewind wrote:
 Grimskul wrote:
 R1ncewind wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
Im my current speed waaagh list i have my Big Mek with shiny shoota and tellyport blasta in a trukk along side trukk boys (which i would assume i can do as the trukk doesnt change keyword).

So when they charge out and run towards the enemy my big mek remains in the trukk and shoots out.

That also negates the fact that hes only movement 4.

Im not sure if its a good or a bad idea, but so far its the best i could come up with.


Did try the same yesterday. Since the trukk boys give the trukk +1 to hit and then get the +1 from the trukk, it also applies to the mek, right?
BS3 opportunist shots


Unfortunately, Trukk Boyz can't apply to Big Meks since they aren't one of the units with the requisite Keyword to get that buff.


It can not get the keyword, but it should be able to profit from an unit of trukk boys inside the same trukk, since the trukk boy +1 to hit applies to the trukk they are in and as such to all models inside the trukk as well


It's hard to say atm, because its not clear how they'll be errata'ing how specialist mobz work currently. As it is, trukk boyz don't work as written, but I don't know if they'll allow both a KLAN unit and a specialist mob unit in the same trukk due to differing keywords.


That they can ride together was the assumption in the first quoted post and I think it is reasonable. There is nothing to do but wait for it, though.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/24 16:01:47


Post by: xttz


Fingers crossed we should get the FAQ this weekend. Charadon II came out 1 week before the Beastsnagga box, and that got a FAQ last Friday.

Today's warcom article also hinted at the Ork codex going on general release as the first Sept pre-order.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/24 16:04:23


Post by: Vineheart01


'the assumption" is correct.
Thats all it is. As is, subkultures cannot go into a transport period even though nobody is going to enforce that right now because it breaks a lot of crap.
How they choose to fix this problem will spur other reactions, namely the above of a BS3 mek that isnt a trukkboy benefitting via OpenTopped mod sharing.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/24 18:21:54


Post by: Beardedragon


 R1ncewind wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
Im my current speed waaagh list i have my Big Mek with shiny shoota and tellyport blasta in a trukk along side trukk boys (which i would assume i can do as the trukk doesnt change keyword).

So when they charge out and run towards the enemy my big mek remains in the trukk and shoots out.

That also negates the fact that hes only movement 4.

Im not sure if its a good or a bad idea, but so far its the best i could come up with.


Did try the same yesterday. Since the trukk boys give the trukk +1 to hit and then get the +1 from the trukk, it also applies to the mek, right?
BS3 opportunist shots


i didnt give my Mek +1 to hit that way.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 07:12:01


Post by: Jidmah


 koooaei wrote:
Another thing about mini meks. They're characters, are one of the cheapest around and can also perform actions. Now with how look out sir works, you can have a unit of grots hidden out of Los while mek can perform actions in the open and while he is within 3 of grots and further from the enemy than ANY other friendly unit - not necessarily this grots, he can just hold a point with no danger of being shot to bits.


Most relevant actions cannot be performed by characters though. The only one you can pick in any mission is Raise The Banners High and a mek and gretchin aren't exactly great at scoring a lot of points from raised banners. Essentially this would only work for certain mission specific secondaries, and at least half of the action ones are not something you would ever pick.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Afrodactyl wrote:
Mega mek with DDSS is actually really good if you have a spare HQ slot and CP. Both the KFF and the TPB are both viable picks, but I would personally lean towards the TPB.

Opportunist will probably be worthwhile if you have the spare CP and actually want to go character hunting with him.


Please refrain from using abbreviations that aren't resolved by the forum software or super common, it makes your posts much more readable for others.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
cody.d. wrote:
Really wish GW let meganobz act like actual terminators. Dakka at full range and ignore heavy modifiers. Would help Kustom shootas and Kombi rokkits hold their own.


Yeah, they need something, at the very least free weapon options. While I usually hate these kind of comparisons, it feels utterly wrong that a dual killsaw MAN is almost as much as deathshroud terminator who feel like a unit of warbosses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 xttz wrote:
It doesn't mean Lootas are terrible, but does beg the question why you'd take a unit that does X when other units can do X, Y and Z.


That's essentially what blue tier is - this unit can do what it is supposed to do (high range light anti-tank), but there are better units. It also doesn't help that the game currently has no need for light anti-tank shooting, but that is a completely different.

In contrast, yellow is for units that do not perform well at their intended role. For example nobz cannot perform as their intended role of elite melee experts and thus belong in yellow tier.

So for people like Blackie, who might have up to 45 lootas flying around from 5th, it's fine to run lootas in a semi-competitive environment without automatically tossing the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Grimskul wrote:
It's hard to say atm, because its not clear how they'll be errata'ing how specialist mobz work currently. As it is, trukk boyz don't work as written, but I don't know if they'll allow both a KLAN unit and a specialist mob unit in the same trukk due to differing keywords.


I need to put that on the rules list...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hilarious thoughts on modifier problem.

If I put beast snaggas inside a kill rig, do the beast snaggas inside get +2 to hit when shooting transports and mosters?

If I run a unit of trukk boyz and put 2 SAGs with it, do those SAGs hit on 3+?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 08:31:46


Post by: wallygator


Where do you guys find the rule that a trukk transfers it abilities to it's passenger?
the BRB states that passengers cannot be affected in any way, and I don't see the "open topped" rule in the trukk datasheet counter this issue.

Could be wrong as I don't have my codex by hand atm, only a pdf for quick reference during work .


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 08:32:32


Post by: Beardedragon


 wallygator wrote:
Where do you guys find the rule that a trukk transfers it abilities to it's passenger?
the BRB states that passengers cannot be affected in any way, and I don't see the "open topped" rule in the trukk datasheet counter this issue.

Could be wrong as I don't have my codex by hand atm, only a pdf for quick reference during work .


its not an ork rule.

Its in the rare rules section i believe.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 08:38:48


Post by: Jidmah


 wallygator wrote:
Where do you guys find the rule that a trukk transfers it abilities to it's passenger?
the BRB states that passengers cannot be affected in any way, and I don't see the "open topped" rule in the trukk datasheet counter this issue.

Could be wrong as I don't have my codex by hand atm, only a pdf for quick reference during work .


There was a FAQ, you can find it on page 8 of the BRB FAQ.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/lKo58OjfYV7Ysecp.pdf


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 08:47:26


Post by: wallygator


 Jidmah wrote:
 wallygator wrote:
Where do you guys find the rule that a trukk transfers it abilities to it's passenger?
the BRB states that passengers cannot be affected in any way, and I don't see the "open topped" rule in the trukk datasheet counter this issue.

Could be wrong as I don't have my codex by hand atm, only a pdf for quick reference during work .


There was a FAQ, you can find it on page 8 of the BRB FAQ.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/lKo58OjfYV7Ysecp.pdf


found it, thanks


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 08:53:59


Post by: koooaei


 Jidmah wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
Another thing about mini meks. They're characters, are one of the cheapest around and can also perform actions. Now with how look out sir works, you can have a unit of grots hidden out of Los while mek can perform actions in the open and while he is within 3 of grots and further from the enemy than ANY other friendly unit - not necessarily this grots, he can just hold a point with no danger of being shot to bits.


Most relevant actions cannot be performed by characters though. The only one you can pick in any mission is Raise The Banners High and a mek and gretchin aren't exactly great at scoring a lot of points from raised banners. Essentially this would only work for certain mission specific secondaries, and at least half of the action ones are not something you would ever pick.


There's nothing wrong with banners. Pretty good for us - at least it's competing with octarius data and can potentially bring more points. Also, scoring a point in the open with an untargetable character is what can win you games.

Also, I've calculated skrapjets damage output vs unbuffed Mortarion and found out that apeedwaagh skrapjets deals 1.7 wounds with shooting (1.1 comes from bigshootas) and 1.2 in mellee - mostly from mortal wounds.
Not saying it's a great idea to charge Mortarion but the fact that mellee can give such a huge percentage boost is a bit unexpected. I'm even more positive for blood axes now.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 09:02:59


Post by: Jidmah


Does it work well for you? I eventually stopped using it, because it's just to easy for other armies to tear them down.

For the Mortarion math did you consider the 5+++, -1 to hit and anti-rerolls aura?
But yes, rokkits and MW are great against him in general. You just need to keep in mind the variance of three 4+ rolls, there is a good chance that you fail all of them and just have put three buggies to the scythe.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 09:21:43


Post by: Beardedragon


 Jidmah wrote:
 wallygator wrote:
Where do you guys find the rule that a trukk transfers it abilities to it's passenger?
the BRB states that passengers cannot be affected in any way, and I don't see the "open topped" rule in the trukk datasheet counter this issue.

Could be wrong as I don't have my codex by hand atm, only a pdf for quick reference during work .


There was a FAQ, you can find it on page 8 of the BRB FAQ.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/lKo58OjfYV7Ysecp.pdf


but doesnt the sentence from your link:
If a Transport model is under the effects of a modifier to its
ranged attacks (such as a modifier to its hit rolls, wound rolls,
etc.) the same modifier applies each time an embarked model
makes a ranged attack."


Pretty much mean that you DO get +1 to hit when you remain on your trukk with trukkboys? you give it +1 to hit, and you get +1 to hit yourself. Furthermore, wouldnt that also mean that during a speedwaaagh you do actually get the extra AP on infantry shooting as well while embarked?

I know we are waiting for an FAQ to shed light on the case but it seems pretty clear that right now thats how it works. I have not been playing it that way.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 09:38:31


Post by: Jidmah


Yes, I agree, but the interaction rather unintuitive and usually explicitly GW spells out such odd cases.

The AP thing is a bit more unclear, because there are valid reason to assume that the modifier is not just "-1 AP" but "-1 AP for bikes and vehicles", which would then not apply to INFANTRY or MONSTER.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 10:23:42


Post by: Bonde


Shoota boyz could really use some improvements, giving Trukkboyz' shooting -1 AP on the Speedwaagh turn while embarked would make them a lot more usable for supporting a light vehicle list.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 10:27:13


Post by: ThePauliPrinciple


Beardedragon wrote:


I know we are waiting for an FAQ to shed light on the case but it seems pretty clear that right now thats how it works. I have not been playing it that way.


You are arguing that trukk boys should be able to enter trukks RAI, and this makes perfect sense, but then you continue on how if you play it that way, you can obtain a RAW rule interaction which doesn't seem RAI. Or in other words, your argument is along the lines of "if I don't follow the rules, this is how the rules play out". It will depend entirely on how they errata the trukk boys rule. E.g. they could do something like the trukk boys being allowed to designate a single trukk in their detachment to be able to trainsport them but nothing else. Of course they can also change the rule to work like you are stating, but that really just makes it wish listing more than a strategy.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 12:23:40


Post by: Beardedragon


ThePauliPrinciple wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:


I know we are waiting for an FAQ to shed light on the case but it seems pretty clear that right now thats how it works. I have not been playing it that way.


You are arguing that trukk boys should be able to enter trukks RAI, and this makes perfect sense, but then you continue on how if you play it that way, you can obtain a RAW rule interaction which doesn't seem RAI. Or in other words, your argument is along the lines of "if I don't follow the rules, this is how the rules play out". It will depend entirely on how they errata the trukk boys rule. E.g. they could do something like the trukk boys being allowed to designate a single trukk in their detachment to be able to trainsport them but nothing else. Of course they can also change the rule to work like you are stating, but that really just makes it wish listing more than a strategy.


Well why wouldnt i? Its pretty clear that rules as intended is that you can disembark a unit after the trukk has moved, and said trukk can get +1 to its shooting. Unlike many issues in our codex, The biggest feth up is the idea that trukk boys cant go inside trukks. That is a blatant mistake that will get an FAQ.

The idea that the boys inside would hit on a +4 when they shoot isnt too far fetched as we must assume that they know their own rules. They made their own rare rules and they even include a +1 to hit as an example. basically at that point everything points towards the boys getting +1 to hit when shooting while remaining inside. The only point we can make that should advocate for this not working, is that kulture thing with trukkboys is already a bit messed up, and GW regularly feths up their own rare rules and write incoherent things.

If the boys arent meant to get +1 to hit to ranged attacks when inside the trukk then they fethed up big time because again, the +1 to hit is even included in the example given by themselves. I dont feel like its really a question if units embarked on a trukk boys trukk should get +1 to hit, because they themselves have made clear examples that they should.

But as Jidmah said, what is and what isnt a modifier? Do they also get -1AP on a speedwaagh? technically sure but we do lack a modifier list to really know. So its unclear.

You cant look at every single rule or rare rule that tells you that RAW you can do something and wait for FAQs to play the game. Like makari being able to use grot shields. that sounds like an oversight that can easily be done by putting "non character" on the stratagem. I dont use said stratagem on Makari. The entire codex is in a limbo where things might work and might NOT work.


The only issue i see with Trukkboys is how the trukk and the infantry going in to it interacts with klan kulture, because right now you could put a trukk boy warboss in the trukk, add 10 tankbustas who are normal bad moon, and get +1 to your tankbustas because the warboss gives the trukk +1. That interaction between klans and what works and dont, that i can see being an issue. So that a trukk boy warboss and bad moon tankbustas might not be able to enter a bad moon trukk.

But it doesnt seem to be an issue, that a warboss alone in a trukk would get +1 to hit because the trukk is given +1 to hit. Because as i said, they themselves used +1 to hit as an example. With even an example to prove your point not even a TO would be able to point at that and say: nah.

Furthermore, what even was the point of given the trukk +1 to hit? Who gives a feth about +1 to hit on a single big shoota. Its probably to make this interaction that the models inside get +1 to hit as well. And yes i said probably because no one knows what GW is thinking. But i dont intend not giving my boys +1 to hit when i have an example backing me up.




Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 12:24:11


Post by: Jidmah


I'm fairly sure that they will just change the transport rule to say "Specialist Ladz" instead of FLASH GITS.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 12:31:39


Post by: Beardedragon


 Jidmah wrote:
I'm fairly sure that they will just change the transport rule to say "Specialist Ladz" instead of FLASH GITS.


yea im curious if they allow a bad moon trukk to be carrying trukk boys boys, and a bad moon Big Mek with shiny shoota and tellyport blasta.


But atm i have no idea how they will fix it. Because the trukk remains <Klan> so they should naturally keep being able to ferry <Klan> members like a big Mek. So in the end, the trukk basically carries.. two klans atm.

In my current freebootas list i have Trukk boys with a big mek with shiny shoota and Tellyport blasta. I didnt give him +1 to hit because i forgot about the interaction, but they did ride together. only difference was my big mek never jumped out after the trukk had moved as only the boys could.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 14:06:15


Post by: koooaei


 Jidmah wrote:
Does it work well for you? I eventually stopped using it, because it's just to easy for other armies to tear them down.

For the Mortarion math did you consider the 5+++, -1 to hit and anti-rerolls aura?
But yes, rokkits and MW are great against him in general. You just need to keep in mind the variance of three 4+ rolls, there is a good chance that you fail all of them and just have put three buggies to the scythe.


The skrapjets was only buffed with speedwaagh and Mortarion did not have -1 to hit.

Freeboota skrapjet with sttacked hits will do better in shooting but it will still have around 1/3 of it's damage output in mellee.

I started calculations cause there are a couple dg players that run tough lists with mortarion in 1k pt games and I wanted to calculate what can I expect to achieve if I decide to attack him. And once again, I'm not saying it's a good idea to charge Mortarion, you're better off going in all directions, scoring and trying to kill the rest of the list which is still not easy - and you need every bit possible to do it in time. So, just pointing out that we can squeeze even more out of our jets - not just shooting. But mellee is indeed quite swingy. I think there will be plenty of targets for buggy charges and having an option to do against stuff that won't wreck your vehicle in return. And divinng right in without fear of getting bogged down in mellee is a nice thing to consider.

So far, I have not tried any of the buggies yet as they are still under construction but, as I've said previously, I'm gona run blood axes in an escalating league and see how it goes. My initial thought was to run death skulls (as it's an obvious choice for a couple of beat re rolls and mw protection) as we're starting at 500 pts, than 1k and that's clearly not freebootas league...but than I thought, why not go for my favorite clan - blood axes! And than,after some re-reading of the rules and calculations I've come to a conclusion that it might not just be a fluffy choice. It might end up pretty competitive.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 14:55:10


Post by: Tumbleweed


If you're going to be butting heads with dudes that are playing Mortarion at 1k, take Ghaz, give him some Fists of Gork and knock 7 bells out of him. Messing about trying to kite on a 4x4 board or plinking wounds off is an exercise in futility.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 15:23:33


Post by: Tomsug


 Jidmah wrote:
Does it work well for you? I eventually stopped using it, because it's just to easy for other armies to tear them down.


Banners works but depend heavily on the mission, opponent and your list of course.

Following is valid for high mobile buggy list (with the old codex)

1. Mission - you need 6 objective mission and just some of them works well - Overrun is the best. Easy to score 3VP on beginning of 2nd turn.
2. Opponent - armies that tend to charge you T1 and make a mess in your deploy = banners have a problem. Better play Octarius and Behind enemy lines to make them to care about their deploy. However, if your opponent tends to camp in his deploy or prefer shooting over CC, Banners makes him to go front and fight for every objective. Single commandos dropped from the sky can rise the banner and the banner scores VP even if opponent shoot kommandos down. Opponent needs to go to this objective and take it. This secondary is very much a “make him do what I want” type of secondary.

I use it about 30% of the games and if I take them, works mostly very good.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 16:09:11


Post by: koooaei


Tumbleweed wrote:
If you're going to be butting heads with dudes that are playing Mortarion at 1k, take Ghaz, give him some Fists of Gork and knock 7 bells out of him. Messing about trying to kite on a 4x4 board or plinking wounds off is an exercise in futility.


I don't own Ghaz but I have a friend that we often share collection with who is planning to buy Ghaz + Makari. But anyway, Ghaz is not that great vs mort. If you calculate his damage output - it's pretty comparable with a skeapjet's damage output in mellee. Point for point. Ghaz will deal 4-5 damage to mort in mellee, while 3 skrapjets will deal around 3-4. Pretty comparable.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 16:17:35


Post by: Jidmah


 koooaei wrote:
And once again, I'm not saying it's a good idea to charge Mortarion, you're better off going in all directions, scoring and trying to kill the rest of the list which is still not easy - and you need every bit possible to do it in time.

Oh, no, if you get to finish Mortarion, you should totally do that. I have run him quite a bit myself, and depending on the objective setup of the mission you are playing, you simply can't win by scattering. But if you do charge him for the rams, you definitely need to have a plan B for when it fails, otherwise you most likely have thrown the game.

So far, I have not tried any of the buggies yet as they are still under construction but, as I've said previously, I'm gona run blood axes in an escalating league and see how it goes. My initial thought was to run death skulls (as it's an obvious choice for a couple of beat re rolls and mw protection) as we're starting at 500 pts, than 1k and that's clearly not freebootas league...but than I thought, why not go for my favorite clan - blood axes! And than,after some re-reading of the rules and calculations I've come to a conclusion that it might not just be a fluffy choice. It might end up pretty competitive.

If you bring a unit that can benefit from the BA stratagem (burnas?), it might even be quite powerful in small games. I often play 500 and 1000 points currently because our gaming location is on lockdown and I have no full sized gaming board that fits in my living room. Also, crusade. Many games end with some leftover units not being able to reach other leftovers, so being able to jump to the other side of a board can be huge tactical asset.
Heck, if you meet one of those Mortarion at 1k dorks, you could bait him to one side and then just redeploy to the other


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 17:12:00


Post by: Tumbleweed


I don't own Ghaz but I have a friend that we often share collection with who is planning to buy Ghaz + Makari. But anyway, Ghaz is not that great vs mort. If you calculate his damage output - it's pretty comparable with a skeapjet's damage output in mellee. Point for point. Ghaz will deal 4-5 damage to mort in mellee, while 3 skrapjets will deal around 3-4. Pretty comparable.


Is it really that bad? I've never sat down to roll dice to try it out, but with Fists of Gork you're hitting him ~8 times (base, fists and WL trait, exploding hits and rerolling misses), wounding on 2s (14 +2 at least) for 12 damage (not counting waaaagh or charging in the numbers) or so. That aside, the reason to take ghaz is your chums are sinking 500 points into a mega beatstick. If you can limit him to doing 4W in CC per turn you're onto a winner. As others have said, if you're charging him with scrapjets, what you're actually doing is feeding him free kills on your turn...unless somehow you've got him to 4W already, in which case, fill your boots!


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 18:43:48


Post by: koooaei


Tumbleweed wrote:
I don't own Ghaz but I have a friend that we often share collection with who is planning to buy Ghaz + Makari. But anyway, Ghaz is not that great vs mort. If you calculate his damage output - it's pretty comparable with a skeapjet's damage output in mellee. Point for point. Ghaz will deal 4-5 damage to mort in mellee, while 3 skrapjets will deal around 3-4. Pretty comparable.


Is it really that bad? I've never sat down to roll dice to try it out, but with Fists of Gork you're hitting him ~8 times (base, fists and WL trait, exploding hits and rerolling misses), wounding on 2s (14 +2 at least) for 12 damage (not counting waaaagh or charging in the numbers) or so. That aside, the reason to take ghaz is your chums are sinking 500 points into a mega beatstick. If you can limit him to doing 4W in CC per turn you're onto a winner. As others have said, if you're charging him with scrapjets, what you're actually doing is feeding him free kills on your turn...unless somehow you've got him to 4W already, in which case, fill your boots!


No, I haven't included +3 attacks for magic and waagh but the rest is calculated accurately. Remember, you can't re-roll anything or be affected by any auras While fighting mort.
Skrapjets didn't get any benefits in mellee at all but you could probably make them...goffs, which is a bit counter-productive. More than half of the damage they deal to mort comes from mortal wounds anyway.

As for magic buffs, Magic is tricky. First of all, it's quite unreliavlble and mort can also deny it, second - it comes with the price of another jet. Even if you include fully buffed Ghaz, you end up with around 7-9 damage on average which is close to degrading mort to 1 less attack. But ghaz will likely get killed in 2 turns as mort is a caster and can also shoot his gun.
4 skrapjets will deal around 4-5 wounds in mellee. And around 8-10 with shooting... i don't know, Ghaz seems a bit underwhelming for his price in such small games. He's more of a force multiplier that can occasionally beat not top mellee stuff and can be good if the opponent focuses on just shooting or just mellee as he can survive long enough to fight a couple times and buff what's around him.

Now if you take Ghaz in a 500 pt game... He will still get wrecked by small dreadnaughts Yeah, he needs his buddies around.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 19:13:53


Post by: Tumbleweed


Fair enough, I'm convinced. Point being that a Primarch in a 500 point game proably isn't balanced. Get new friends


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 20:06:27


Post by: koooaei


I think I can handle mort by outscoring him and killing his scoring ASAP. Basically, playing a 1k vs 500 game with loosing a portion of your army every turn. The idea is to try and not provide more than 1 squad to kill in mellee at a time. Easier said than done but that's a better plan than go all out on buffed mort if you go 2d.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have plenty of experience of dealing with knight armies in 1k games at their prime - when we had no real way to reliably kill them in mellee. So, it might be close to that. Mort is slower and less shoots, but is much tougher.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 21:35:56


Post by: Rogerio134134


Mani cheemas list run though is up on YouTube now and his army is absolutely brutal. It annoys me that I can't buy any buggies in the whole of the UK due to people jumping on the bandwagon though, all I want us 1 squig buggy!


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/25 22:23:24


Post by: Jidmah


Tumbleweed wrote:
Fair enough, I'm convinced. Point being that a Primarch in a 500 point game proably isn't balanced. Get new friends


Eh, they are dorks. They are essentially banking on coin-flips, as the mission and the enemy army will essentially auto-decide who wins or loses. A serious DG player trying to win as many games as possible would not bring him at that level.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 05:48:34


Post by: koooaei


Well, that's a game, and, as i've told a couple times - our meta is competitive. I don't mind facing him in small games as I think he's beatable but not all lists and approaches can handle him. But that's normal for 40k in general.
Btw, last time one of them mistakenly took mortarion in a 500 pt game. As it turns out, you can't take only supreme command. Anyways, he went 2d as he was just outscored and was unlucky to fail the charge one turn.
In 1k pt he's gona have some durable scoring that might prove problematic, but if we focus on this scoring and score ourselves, we might get a chance.

Or, if orks get 1st turn, we can, instead try to focus down mort. It's unlikely we will kill him in one go but the chances of dealing around 8-10 damage with buggies and kmk are not that slim.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 05:50:33


Post by: cody.d.


So how many people have been trying out squig lists?

I'm hoping to test one that focuses on the hog riders, a BBK squigosaur boss and Skragbad backed up by a trio of killrigs for that weirdboy dakka. And heck, to keep to the theme of the army, a squigbuggie.

The best buffs I can think to pass out on the squig units would be the beastgob trait on a smashasquig nob and giving one or maybe even two of the killrigs the spirit of gork spell. (2 for having a backup)

Main problem that comes to my mind is the inherent squishiness of such a list. You're likely to take one or even two rounds of shooting due to the meh speed of the riders.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 05:51:05


Post by: koooaei


There were some squigrider-focused list that placed well. Iirc, he was running 3 jobs alongside 2x5 squigriders. And 2 squigosaurs ofc.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 05:59:28


Post by: cody.d.


Yeah, for the 150-170 price tag squigosaur bosses are fairly decent. The only drawback I can think of is the D2, no D3 or D4 weapons via relics or combos. (at least that I can think of) But in exchange you get decent durability and a solid number of attacks thanks to the 3 extra mount attacks.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 06:27:18


Post by: koooaei


Btw, unbuffed bbk goff boss on squigosaur with killchoppa will deal around 5 wounds to mort. Which is close to 2.5 times better than ghaz point-for-point.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 06:40:52


Post by: Beardedragon


You know what annoys me? That Da Boomer must go on a wagon.

It would be much more interesting if you could just outright replace a kill kannon with it.


That way you could put it on a Meka Dread too.

Do you guys see any use for Mega and Meka Dreads in this new codex?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 06:54:04


Post by: Afrodactyl


Beardedragon wrote:
You know what annoys me? That Da Boomer must go on a wagon.

It would be much more interesting if you could just outright replace a kill kannon with it.


That way you could put it on a Meka Dread too.

Do you guys see any use for Mega and Meka Dreads in this new codex?


I personally don't see a competitive use for either as things stand currently. Maybe a Mega dread with double klaws and maybe a shokka hull of you fancy it, tellyported and thrown in the enemy's face turn two for basically a guaranteed charge. But that would purely be novelty and I don't see it being anything more than a wild card choice to catch an opponent off guard.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 07:19:22


Post by: AarresaariAarre


 koooaei wrote:
Btw, unbuffed bbk goff boss on squigosaur with killchoppa will deal around 5 wounds to mort. Which is close to 2.5 times better than ghaz point-for-point.

What implementation of the Brutal but kunnin' + mortal wounds combo is that based on and how much can it degrade when the FAQ comes?

I like the concept of the Dinoboss murder machine, but I've yet to use it as it feels so wonky and kinda annoying to explain.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 07:39:30


Post by: Beardedragon


When you use brutal but kunning warlord trait, are you allowed to dedicate those extra hits to another target you are in close combat with and is eligable to attack?

Or must you use those extra hits to attack the same target as your original attacks?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 08:01:46


Post by: koooaei


It seems you can allocate extra attacks wherever you want


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 09:41:08


Post by: R1ncewind


Beardedragon wrote:When you use brutal but kunning warlord trait, are you allowed to dedicate those extra hits to another target you are in close combat with and is eligable to attack?

Or must you use those extra hits to attack the same target as your original attacks?

koooaei wrote:It seems you can allocate extra attacks wherever you want

That would be another interesting interaction. In that case, when killing the first target with the extra bite attacks before the normal attacks, would the normal attacks count against brutal but kunning as attacks that did not reach the damage step?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 09:54:05


Post by: Beardedragon


 R1ncewind wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:When you use brutal but kunning warlord trait, are you allowed to dedicate those extra hits to another target you are in close combat with and is eligable to attack?

Or must you use those extra hits to attack the same target as your original attacks?

koooaei wrote:It seems you can allocate extra attacks wherever you want

That would be another interesting interaction. In that case, when killing the first target with the extra bite attacks before the normal attacks, would the normal attacks count against brutal but kunning as attacks that did not reach the damage step?


oh wait it does state it has to be against the same unit.

I just didnt read the warlord trait properly. My bad


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 09:58:03


Post by: Jidmah


 R1ncewind wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:When you use brutal but kunning warlord trait, are you allowed to dedicate those extra hits to another target you are in close combat with and is eligable to attack?

Or must you use those extra hits to attack the same target as your original attacks?

koooaei wrote:It seems you can allocate extra attacks wherever you want

That would be another interesting interaction. In that case, when killing the first target with the extra bite attacks before the normal attacks, would the normal attacks count against brutal but kunning as attacks that did not reach the damage step?


It's worth noting that you still can only allocate attacks to models you have charged if you charged this turn. You also don't get another pile-in so you might no longer be in engagement range after killing your original target.

As for making attacks against a dead unit - technically you still would need to make hit and wound rolls for those attacks which then cannot be allocated to a model afterwards. So yes, they would be attacks that did not reach the inflict damage step.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 10:28:33


Post by: koooaei


 Jidmah wrote:
 R1ncewind wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:When you use brutal but kunning warlord trait, are you allowed to dedicate those extra hits to another target you are in close combat with and is eligable to attack?

Or must you use those extra hits to attack the same target as your original attacks?

koooaei wrote:It seems you can allocate extra attacks wherever you want

That would be another interesting interaction. In that case, when killing the first target with the extra bite attacks before the normal attacks, would the normal attacks count against brutal but kunning as attacks that did not reach the damage step?


It's worth noting that you still can only allocate attacks to models you have charged if you charged this turn. You also don't get another pile-in so you might no longer be in engagement range after killing your original target.

As for making attacks against a dead unit - technically you still would need to make hit and wound rolls for those attacks which then cannot be allocated to a model afterwards. So yes, they would be attacks that did not reach the inflict damage step.


The out-of range is not an issue as you do not fight again, just get additional attacks.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 10:38:35


Post by: Jidmah


 koooaei wrote:
The out-of range is not an issue as you do not fight again, just get additional attacks.


Never mind, re-read BBK. You always have to make the attacks against the same unit you have targeted before, thus skipping the select target step.

So if you wipe the enemy unit, no extra attacks for you.

For reference:
Each time this WARLORD fights, if all of its attacks target one enemy unit, after resolving all of those attacks, it can make a number of additional attacks against that enemy unit equal to the number of attacks that did not reach the Inflict Damage step of the attack sequence during that fight.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 10:59:58


Post by: Beardedragon


So... BBK dont even trigger unless all attacks reach one target? thats a bit annoying.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 11:01:39


Post by: koooaei


 Jidmah wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
The out-of range is not an issue as you do not fight again, just get additional attacks.


Never mind, re-read BBK. You always have to make the attacks against the same unit you have targeted before, thus skipping the select target step.

So if you wipe the enemy unit, no extra attacks for you.

For reference:
Each time this WARLORD fights, if all of its attacks target one enemy unit, after resolving all of those attacks, it can make a number of additional attacks against that enemy unit equal to the number of attacks that did not reach the Inflict Damage step of the attack sequence during that fight.


Oh, right, you got to allocate them to the same unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's still ok as it adds around 1/3 damage against tougher targets with good invuls.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or, to be more precise, it's your attack stabilizer. In case you roll poorly 1st time or the enemy gets too lucky, you got to make a lot of extra attacks. In case you got lucky and your opponent failed a lot of saves, you don't get much out of it.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 12:25:25


Post by: Jidmah


Beardedragon wrote:
So... BBK dont even trigger unless all attacks reach one target? thats a bit annoying.


No, you pick targets before making any attacks. So if you have 6 attacks and two of those fail to hit, wound or are saved, you get to make another two attacks against the very same unit, irrespective of whether they still have model in engagement range.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 13:19:49


Post by: Beardedragon


 Jidmah wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
So... BBK dont even trigger unless all attacks reach one target? thats a bit annoying.


No, you pick targets before making any attacks. So if you have 6 attacks and two of those fail to hit, wound or are saved, you get to make another two attacks against the very same unit, irrespective of whether they still have model in engagement range.


ah. gotcha


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 14:13:47


Post by: SemperMortis


 Bonde wrote:
Shoota boyz could really use some improvements, giving Trukkboyz' shooting -1 AP on the Speedwaagh turn while embarked would make them a lot more usable for supporting a light vehicle list.


it would take a helluva lot more than that to make Shoota boyz competitive.
So lets break it down. ATM 11 shoota boyz is 99pts. Against MEQ they average 1.2dmg Against GEQ they average 3.25dmg At 9' range (which sorry but this is useless) they average 1.8 and 4.8

Shooting wise a 5 Man intercessor squad is shooting 10 shots at 30' range (12' further than shoota boyz) and average 1.6ish vs MEQ and 3.7 against GEQ, and they are by no means the best shooting unit in the game and are in fact rarely if ever taken in lists. In actuality they are taken as 5 man Tax units to sit on an objective and plink wounds away at 30' range.

Kabelite Warriors for 100pts get 12.5 models and at 24' range average 8.3 hits, 4.16 wounds and against MEQ that is 1.38dmg and against GEQ its 2.7, importantly, their weapon is Poison so it always wounds on a 4. When you get within 12' range these guys double their dmg, so while still 3' further out than Dakka range for Shoota Boyz these kabalite warriors are dumping out 2.76dmg to MEQ and 5.4 to GEQ. These guys are taken in competitive games, albeit in skew lists. They are spammed as MSU Blaster delivery systems. The Drukhari player who finished 2nd at Last Summer/Winehammer GT took 12 units of them, all 5 man MSU with 1 blaster and a Phantasm Grenade Launcher on the Sybarite....which btw, Orkz are now going to get absolutely gutted by

Necron Immortals: 102pts gets you 6 models (These guys are overpriced) they get 6 shots at 30 or 12 at 15, At 30 its 4 hits, 2.6 wounds and 1.77dmg and at 15 its 3.54dmg vs MEQ, Vs GEQ its 2.6dmg and 5.2dmg. Still taken but necrons in general aren't in a great spot.

The Humble Guardsmen, for 110pts you get 20 Guardsmen (they come in bricks of 10)they get 20 shots at 24' and 40 at 12 with easy access to buffs for this. Regardless, Against MEQ its 1.1 at Max range and 2.2 at Half range, against GEQ its 3.33 and 6.66, and again, these guys are a tax unit usually, though there is 1 competitive IG player who routinely brings 10 bricks of them.

Skitarii Rangers: 96pts nets you 12 models which gets you 24 shots at 30' range which works out to 4dmg vs MEQ and 8.88 Vs GEQ. However, they also can self buff themselves to have +1BS which gives them 5dmg vs MEQ and 11.11 Vs GEQ. There is also little if any reason not to buff yourself with either +1BS or giving yourself a 3+ armor save which in cover becomes 2+.


So, all of these troops are better at shooting than Shoota boyz all of them are significantly more durable, especially when you factor in Morale. Even the guardsmen believe it or not. It takes 2.25 hits to kill 1 guardsmen who is worth roughly 5.5pts, it takes 3.6 hits to kill 1 shootaboy at 9ppm. *and guardsmen haven't received a codex yet. All of these guys are obsec and have longer ranged guns than the Shootaboy and the range to increase their RoF if they get an increase is 3-6' further away than Shootaboyz.

I just don't see any purpose for Shootaboyz since we have so many better shooting options which aren't as vulnerable to return fire and morale.



Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 16:22:02


Post by: Nym


I think what's hurting the most is knowing that in 5th edition, it took 18 shots from 6pts Shoota boyz to kill 1 Marine (~15pts), wether it was in cover or not.

Now it takes 36 shots from 9pts Shoota boyz to kill 1 Marine (18pts), or 72 shots if he's in cover.

Between 5th and 9th edition, Marines gained a second wound for only 3pts while Shoota boyz became 50% more expensive. Marines thus became twice as durable, and the new cover rules again doubled their resistance.

You could argue that Tactical squads where underwhelming by then, but it still was one of the more balanced edition I can remember (before GK).

I think the old S4 AP- has no place in the game anymore, unless you can unleash hundreds of them or benefit from stupidly good special rules (Skitarii Vanguards...).


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 17:23:04


Post by: SemperMortis


 Nym wrote:
I think what's hurting the most is knowing that in 5th edition, it took 18 shots from 6pts Shoota boyz to kill 1 Marine (~15pts), wether it was in cover or not.

Now it takes 36 shots from 9pts Shoota boyz to kill 1 Marine (18pts), or 72 shots if he's in cover.

Between 5th and 9th edition, Marines gained a second wound for only 3pts while Shoota boyz became 50% more expensive. Marines thus became twice as durable, and the new cover rules again doubled their resistance.

You could argue that Tactical squads where underwhelming by then, but it still was one of the more balanced edition I can remember (before GK).

I think the old S4 AP- has no place in the game anymore, unless you can unleash hundreds of them or benefit from stupidly good special rules (Skitarii Vanguards...).


Pretty much. And the only special rules i can think of that really benefit the dmg output for shoota boyz are Freeboota kulture and the +1 shot -1AP during a speedWaaaagh. And even that last part we still aren't sure yet since GW continued to be GW and wrote the rules ....interestingly to put it nicely.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 18:16:13


Post by: Grimskul


Yeah. The arms race and durability increases in response to increasingly deadly weapons has made a lot of baseline infantry weapons largely irrelevant unless you have some way of boosting their damage through strats, army-wide abilities or if they're particularly upgunned in some way.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 18:42:07


Post by: Beardedragon


SemperMortis wrote:
 Nym wrote:
I think what's hurting the most is knowing that in 5th edition, it took 18 shots from 6pts Shoota boyz to kill 1 Marine (~15pts), wether it was in cover or not.

Now it takes 36 shots from 9pts Shoota boyz to kill 1 Marine (18pts), or 72 shots if he's in cover.

Between 5th and 9th edition, Marines gained a second wound for only 3pts while Shoota boyz became 50% more expensive. Marines thus became twice as durable, and the new cover rules again doubled their resistance.

You could argue that Tactical squads where underwhelming by then, but it still was one of the more balanced edition I can remember (before GK).

I think the old S4 AP- has no place in the game anymore, unless you can unleash hundreds of them or benefit from stupidly good special rules (Skitarii Vanguards...).


Pretty much. And the only special rules i can think of that really benefit the dmg output for shoota boyz are Freeboota kulture and the +1 shot -1AP during a speedWaaaagh. And even that last part we still aren't sure yet since GW continued to be GW and wrote the rules ....interestingly to put it nicely.


And Bad Moon -AP on 6+ wounds


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 21:44:16


Post by: SemperMortis


Beardedragon wrote:


And Bad Moon -AP on 6+ wounds


30 shoota boyz, in Dakka range, average 5 6+ to wound. 5. And all that does is -1AP. And that is also why Bad Moonz is in my opinion a trash tier Kulture. 90 shots nets you 5 -1AP on average, 5! Freeboota is +1 to hit if you kill a unit, so if they bring MSU like everyone is doing, all we need to do is ice one of those and poof 4+ to hit.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 22:59:15


Post by: RedNoak


hi, so i am thinking about a list for my next game... nothing high competitive just trying stuff out for the first time with the new codex

going for double detachment freebooters with speedwaagh in mind

for anyone whos interested:
Spoiler:
5 kommandoz
5-7 tankbustaz in a trukk

gretchin

2x scrapjets
squigbuggie
3 hogriders
1 hog nob
2x couple o' warbikers
5 stormboyz

killrig
1-2 mekgunz

dakkajet
wazboom


the only thing i am not sure of is my HQ's... well since i wanna run a speedwagh, bike or trike is a must (maybe both?) kinda leaning towards the trike, since the biker rules are kinda janky atm and i've recently scratchbuilded myself a trike

so that leaves the second option... dont really know what to do here... don't have a squigwarboss, so thats out of the question... do i field a biker missile or a tanky as gak megawarboss?
megawarboss seems like an mean beatstick. ard as nails combined with the supa cyborg or krushing armour just seems ridiculous. (could put it in the tankbusta trukk and bullie whatever tries to bully the trukk) but it lacks punchy power... so maybe get the biker? Killa klaw and junkboss to give it an invul? idk doesnt seem THAT good :/
maybe forgo CC at all and take a mek with shiny shoota?

any suggestions?

on a side note... is there ANY reason not to give the rig a beast mantle for a 5+++ ??!!
16 wounds T8 3+ AND a 5+++ seems kinda like an autotake

EDIT:
scrap that, just realized cant get it because its a vehicle


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 23:09:02


Post by: cody.d.


Sadly you can't take the beast mantle on a killrig as it's a vehicle.

The current relic rules are that unless it specifically allows it any given relic cannot be placed on a vehicle.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 23:11:50


Post by: RedNoak


yeah found that out myself just 1min ago. now i am sad and at the same time relieved


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/26 23:24:11


Post by: cody.d.


It's a bit of a bummer for sure. Like killrigs having set traits sucks. A killrig with ard as nails would be super fun!


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/27 06:42:05


Post by: Blackie


SemperMortis wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:


And Bad Moon -AP on 6+ wounds


30 shoota boyz, in Dakka range, average 5 6+ to wound. 5. And all that does is -1AP. And that is also why Bad Moonz is in my opinion a trash tier Kulture. 90 shots nets you 5 -1AP on average, 5! Freeboota is +1 to hit if you kill a unit, so if they bring MSU like everyone is doing, all we need to do is ice one of those and poof 4+ to hit.


Freeboota can be a trap though. Some armies bring units that are not easy to kill, even with MSU style. Even drukhari units are quite tough (-1 to hit, invulns, deep strike, ability to hide and move long distances, ability to assault pretty soon, etc...) and in practise most of the freebota units won't get their +1 to hit as they need to trigger it first. Good luck with Deathguard and custodes.

Bad Moon trait shines on units that have already AP-1, AP-2 and/or have high rof with S5+ weapons. Rokkits, supa shootas, and big shootas/dakkaguns are the best candidates to get benefits from the kultur. It can also be combined with the dedicated stratagem that grants additional hits for 1CP. Shoota boyz are garbage for every klan .


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/27 08:07:51


Post by: Beardedragon


And bad moon shoots further so your positioning is easier.

I would assume that when the range is increased, so is the dakka range?

From 18 to 24 shoota range, and 9 to 12 full dakka range? thats something as well.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/27 08:16:55


Post by: Jidmah


On a different topic - what secondaries do you use for your buggy lists?

I'm a huge fan of Get da Good Bitz, because it can be performed by bikers and in many missions it will just default to the center objectives. Sometimes you can max it out to 9 VP in your first turn as you can have the action performed on multiple objectives at once.
If I feel like the mission, table setup or opponent will not allow me to perform those actions, it's always deploy tellyporta homers. The main reason for me once again is that it can be performed by warbikers (and infantry characters), but also because usually armies aren't strong at defending both midfield and their deployment zone.

In the same manner I pick engage on all front or behind enemy lines, so it's usually good bitz+engage or tellyporta homers+behind enemy lines.

Third one is a bit difficult. First stop are the obvious ones like assassinate, titan hunter or abhor if they can easily be maxed or a least score 9+ VP. Afterwards, I usually pick No Prisoners if my opponent has a wound count of ~100 or more or Bring it Down if you can reliably score 8VP with it, always assuming that out of four enemy vehicles I will fail to kill one.
If all that fails, you just pick whatever gets you the most VP, with my favorite one being assassinate as almost every army can still give up 10 VP from that, and there isn't really a huge downside to focusing on taking out the enemy warlord and support characters.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/27 08:17:06


Post by: Blackie


Yes dakka range is increased as well.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/27 08:58:34


Post by: cody.d.


One big thing i've just noticed. With the wording changes you can trigger the freebootaz trait with units that arn't on the table. Like those in transports!

Toying with the idea of the bunkers deepstriking in. Since the wording of their gaze could let you hit characters in some situations. Fill them up with some burna boyz or even skorcha nobs and it'd be a blast.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/27 09:13:33


Post by: Jidmah


The bunker can't have a culture, it can only trigger it for others.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/27 09:23:44


Post by: starscream17


The bunker also can never be put in strategic reserves due to the core book faq


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/27 09:53:24


Post by: Jidmah


starscream17 wrote:
The bunker also can never be put in strategic reserves due to the core book faq


It can use the tellyporta stratagem which isn't strategic reserves, so that doesn't really matter.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/27 09:54:15


Post by: Beardedragon


starscream17 wrote:
The bunker also can never be put in strategic reserves due to the core book faq


that part is not fully correct necessarily by being a fortification but also behaving more like a drop pod by having wounds and so on, as well as having vehicle keyword.

Its own open topped ability that states embarked units are considered as having not moved if they started inside the bunker (and didnt move in first), also only makes sense if you tellyport it on to the battlefield given that it cant move otherwise, and tellyporting would be its only way of moving. further hinting at the idea that you actually can tellyport it in.

We need an FAQ to clarify things. like so many other things in the codex.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/27 09:57:15


Post by: Jidmah


Actually, that part is quite clear and doesn't need a FAQ whatsoever.

The only issue with the "ork drop pod" is having to stay away 3" from other terrain - which isn't unclear either, as that rule was specifically introduced to prevent shenanigans with deep striking Feculent Gnarlmaws walling off other armies.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/27 10:00:56


Post by: starscream17


 Jidmah wrote:
Actually, that part is quite clear and doesn't need a FAQ whatsoever.

The only issue with the "ork drop pod" is having to stay away 3" from other terrain - which isn't unclear either, as that rule was specifically introduced to prevent shenanigans with deep striking Feculent Gnarlmaws walling off other armies.


Yea staying 9" away from enemy and also 3" from terrain is clucky as


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/27 12:31:46


Post by: Beardedragon


eeeh.. what actually happens if you make your warlord Trukk boys?

What stratagems and relics are you allowed to use? None klan specific only? Or is your warlord still somehow tied to, lets say, goff while being trukk boys?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/27 12:56:02


Post by: Grimskul


Beardedragon wrote:
eeeh.. what actually happens if you make your warlord Trukk boys?

What stratagems and relics are you allowed to use? None klan specific only? Or is your warlord still somehow tied to, lets say, goff while being trukk boys?


Assuming it works the way its supposed to (you swap the keyword), then you're only allowed the generic ones like you said. They would lose whatever Klan keyword they had originally and the warboss aura would only affect himself and other Trukk Boyz.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/27 16:19:01


Post by: Beardedragon


 Grimskul wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
eeeh.. what actually happens if you make your warlord Trukk boys?

What stratagems and relics are you allowed to use? None klan specific only? Or is your warlord still somehow tied to, lets say, goff while being trukk boys?


Assuming it works the way its supposed to (you swap the keyword), then you're only allowed the generic ones like you said. They would lose whatever Klan keyword they had originally and the warboss aura would only affect himself and other Trukk Boyz.


i figured that would be the thing.

Otherwise i was considering having two warboss as trukk boys specialist lads in 2 trukks, and throw maybe some tankbustas or something inside the trukks for the +1 to hit that he gives the trukk, which is then given to the occupants.

I thought of the warlord as specialist ladz because hes a single model so i could fill up the rest of the trukk with flash gitz or tankbustas. The +1 to hit would then mitigate the fact you are moving and they are heavy weapons. I dont recall any singular models who have "Nobz" keyword that could do the same so warboss was my best guess.

But that would mean 1 warboss per detatchment. Realistically speaking this is only feasable with 1 trukk boys detatchment since you dont want a trukk boys warlord.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually i just found a tiny loop hole to my own issue. The Nob With Waagh banner has Nob keyword so HE could function as trukkboys, giving +1 to hit to the trukk who then gives it to the flash gitz or tankbustas.

This is interesting. Ofc an FAQ could deem this to be.. not how its intended but atm it is and atm i think it will work after the FAQ too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
but im assuming you cant use bomb squigs from an open topped transport? It is an ability after all.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/27 19:51:11


Post by: cody.d.


 Jidmah wrote:
The bunker can't have a culture, it can only trigger it for others.


I can't find anything that says as such. It's a Orks <clan> unit in a detacehment that isn't a super heavy auxiliary or an auxiliary. Thus in theory it should get the culture bonuses. But that dosn't matter too much since it's squint fire hits automatically. Meaning if you do deep strike (and I can't find anything that says you can't do so) you could be able to get in a position where you can hit a character with a str9 ap3 d3 weapon. If the stars aline, two or even three would likley wipe out even some marine characters. (looking at you selfless healer apothacaries. The bane of my existence.)

But the big thing I was indicating is that transported units can utilize and trigger freebootaz. Before 10 tankbustas in a trukk for example could kill something but you'd never be able to measure 24 inches to them as they were in that odd limbo of not existing. Now because it's "A Freebootaz unit from your army" there's little question. So it feels like a motorized freebootaz army has legs. Or wheels. Just a case of having a variety of tools to make sure you can kill any weak target first. Which is why we're seeing squigbuggies in tourney lists i reckon.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/27 20:06:28


Post by: koooaei


Even if you could deep strike t2, it's not a good option as you will likely not get a place to fit your fortification due to 3" away from other terrain - rule.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/27 20:14:35


Post by: Vineheart01


The same exact rule that excludes auxiliary detachments from getting detachment rules also mentions fortifications.

Thats why the bunker doesnt get anything.

Its a core rule thing not a codex thing


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/27 22:59:35


Post by: SemperMortis


 Blackie wrote:


Freeboota can be a trap though. Some armies bring units that are not easy to kill, even with MSU style. Even drukhari units are quite tough (-1 to hit, invulns, deep strike, ability to hide and move long distances, ability to assault pretty soon, etc...) and in practise most of the freebota units won't get their +1 to hit as they need to trigger it first. Good luck with Deathguard and custodes.

Bad Moon trait shines on units that have already AP-1, AP-2 and/or have high rof with S5+ weapons. Rokkits, supa shootas, and big shootas/dakkaguns are the best candidates to get benefits from the kultur. It can also be combined with the dedicated stratagem that grants additional hits for 1CP. Shoota boyz are garbage for every klan .


I agree shoota boys are crap I was just using them as my go to unit because of their ROF. But even with that incredible ROF they still only that paltry amount of -1AP. To me, the -1AP is kind of crap for how its worded. If it had been -1AP for shots that hit on 6s....that would have been slightly better. 90 shots = 30 hits = 15 wounds = 5 -1AP shots. 90 shots = 30 hits, but also 15 -1AP shots which = 7.5 Normal hits and 7.5 -1AP shots, so still not great, but around 50% more.

On Rokkitz, if you got 10 tankbustas all in range without moving thats 20 shots on average. that is 7.3 hits and only 1ish -1AP shot. That isn't just kind of crap, its UTTER crap. Yeah freeboota is harder to proc but its significantly better across the board and Drukhari are an easy army to kill 1 unit. They spam cheap throwaway transports which pop when shot at with dedicated firepower.

There is a reason the top tables are heavy with Freeboota right now and not Badmoonz.



Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/28 05:08:48


Post by: cody.d.


So, just came out of another game with a mate using the following list

Spoiler:


BBK boss on squigosaur using the killchoppa
Skragbad
weirdboy with FOG and JF
painboss
30beastsnagga boyz
3 killrigs with a spread of powers, one holding the gitbones
A smasha squig with beastgob
17 squighog boyz
10 grots and a squigbuggy
Naturally all snakebites


He was using a fairly standard Tsons list.

Squigs have plenty of hitting power, especially against marines. Bosses hit like a load of bricks which is fun. The waagh is decent enough. Still loving Stomp em good, with a few heroic interventions you can easily get points in your opponants turn too. Get the good bits only feels decent if you can get an early control of the board. Same with Da biggest and Da best.

Between ramshackle and the squigosaurs Tsons really struggle against orks. They have plenty of D2 under Str7 and we just happen to work great against that meaning we can push for the advantage early.

Mid game Frazzle and biting jawz are great on a gitbones killrig. Lets you slap out a great number of mortal wounds with ease.

Squigbuggies can also hit really hard with a little luck. Against marines at least.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/28 12:00:43


Post by: SemperMortis


Alright guys, i've been pouring over my rulebook for awhile now and I can't seem to find the rule I am looking for.

It used to be that you deployed units which can "Infiltrate" at the end of the deployment phase, but I can't seem to find that rule in the 9th edition book. Am I missing it entirely or did GW get rid of it and units like Kommandos just deploy normally?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/28 12:22:25


Post by: starscream17


SemperMortis wrote:
Alright guys, i've been pouring over my rulebook for awhile now and I can't seem to find the rule I am looking for.

It used to be that you deployed units which can "Infiltrate" at the end of the deployment phase, but I can't seem to find that rule in the 9th edition book. Am I missing it entirely or did GW get rid of it and units like Kommandos just deploy normally?


"infiltrate" units deploy just like normal units. The wording or these special rules can be found in the unit datasheet itself. It'll say when you deploy this unit set it up anywhere 9" from enemy deployment and enemy models.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/28 12:23:51


Post by: SemperMortis


starscream17 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Alright guys, i've been pouring over my rulebook for awhile now and I can't seem to find the rule I am looking for.

It used to be that you deployed units which can "Infiltrate" at the end of the deployment phase, but I can't seem to find that rule in the 9th edition book. Am I missing it entirely or did GW get rid of it and units like Kommandos just deploy normally?


"infiltrate" units deploy just like normal units. The wording or these special rules can be found in the unit datasheet itself. It'll say when you deploy this unit set it up anywhere 9" from enemy deployment and enemy models.


Well damn i'm bringing a rather small detachment to my game and wanted to maximize my time to place Kommandos.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/28 17:02:55


Post by: Jidmah


cody.d. wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
The bunker can't have a culture, it can only trigger it for others.


I can't find anything that says as such. It's a Orks <clan> unit in a detacehment that isn't a super heavy auxiliary or an auxiliary. Thus in theory it should get the culture bonuses. But that dosn't matter too much since it's squint fire hits automatically. Meaning if you do deep strike (and I can't find anything that says you can't do so) you could be able to get in a position where you can hit a character with a str9 ap3 d3 weapon. If the stars aline, two or even three would likley wipe out even some marine characters. (looking at you selfless healer apothacaries. The bane of my existence.)

But the big thing I was indicating is that transported units can utilize and trigger freebootaz. Before 10 tankbustas in a trukk for example could kill something but you'd never be able to measure 24 inches to them as they were in that odd limbo of not existing. Now because it's "A Freebootaz unit from your army" there's little question. So it feels like a motorized freebootaz army has legs. Or wheels. Just a case of having a variety of tools to make sure you can kill any weak target first. Which is why we're seeing squigbuggies in tourney lists i reckon.


Every Codex lists a set of abilities that units in a Detachment gain if every unit in that Detachment is from a specified Faction. Units in Auxiliary Support Detachments, Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachments and Fortification Network Detachments never gain any Detachment abilities, even if every unit in that Detachment is from the Faction specified.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/29 13:53:12


Post by: Kaptin_Grubkrumpa


Hey these questions might have been answered, but there's already 8 pages to go through, so here it goes:

1. Do any of our secondaries in the book seem especially strong? I know secondaries are often situational, but I was wondering if any jumped out at anyone as auto takes.

2. For mekgunz: Is there a gun that is clearly a "best" from a TAC standpoint? If so, why?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/29 14:23:09


Post by: koooaei


Kmk is usually the best.

Ork secondaries are quite mediocre. You're better off with generic ones.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/29 14:43:47


Post by: Tomsug


Da gut Gitz are in fact pretty good. You have to choose 3 objectives and try to hold them. but it' s a trap. You need to hold just one of them, to get 3VP per turn = 15VP in total and you can score with any CORE units which means Warbikers are an option (minimum squad…)


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/29 15:59:26


Post by: Keramory


Uh oh maybe I screwed up. I thought if you had a detachment of 3 low (mork, gork and stompa) you DID get the kultur? And it only cost 1 cp? It's only if you bring 1 low in a super you don't get it.

Is that not correct?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/29 16:26:33


Post by: Vineheart01


No that is correct.
Its the Super-Heavy Auxiliary detachment that does not.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/29 16:50:53


Post by: xttz


Keramory wrote:
Uh oh maybe I screwed up. I thought if you had a detachment of 3 low (mork, gork and stompa) you DID get the kultur?


Correct

Keramory wrote:
And it only cost 1 cp?


It costs 6CP since the units have the Titanic keyword and Super-heavy detachments don't get the CP refund like SH Aux detachments

Edit: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/29/sunday-preview-green-is-good/

Codex release up next, alongside Combat Patrol, beast snagga stuff and bossbunka


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/29 21:48:37


Post by: Rogerio134134


Cool releases this week but I'm in no rush to buy anything else for now, still working on my beast snagga box and some more warbikers! I really like the combat patrol but just don't think I need it for my collection due to having so many boys already. Sure I'll pick it up at some point though.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/29 21:55:11


Post by: Jidmah


Same. I hope someone sells the warboss separately, as I like the model but really have no need for all the other things.

But then again, I think I've spend enough on 40k recently, the only thing I'm definitely getting is the Beastboss on Squigosaur.

Hilarious anecdote: I've just returned from a game where I killed the nightbringer by ramming it with a scrapjet that was only alive because I repaired with with a big mek for 3 wounds the round before. It's almost as if that flyboy inside the scrapjet had read this thread and decided to prove me wrong on three separate things I suggested for tactics


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/29 22:02:10


Post by: Madjob


The most relevant info from this is it pushes up the earliest we will see an errata for this awfully edited book.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/29 22:23:16


Post by: cody.d.


 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
Hey these questions might have been answered, but there's already 8 pages to go through, so here it goes:

1. Do any of our secondaries in the book seem especially strong? I know secondaries are often situational, but I was wondering if any jumped out at anyone as auto takes.

2. For mekgunz: Is there a gun that is clearly a "best" from a TAC standpoint? If so, why?


I guess like any secondaries it all depends on your list.

Stomp em good is reliable for 15 points in my experience. But I like aggressive combat focused lists and so far haven't faced off against a super elite list like knights. It's also good that you can achieve it in the opponents turn if things go well.

Da biggest and Da best is okay if you're taking a fast, hitty and tough boss. So the squigosaurs essentially. Though I've found it hard to get 5 points a turn from it. But you can use the things the boss kills to count towards Stomp em so that's nice.

Only tried get da good bitz once and on a mission with only 2 viable objectives for it. Ideally you place less valuable units on them once the frontline has pushed forward, like slot filler grots. But it's an action that needs you to live for a turn, meaning whoever is performing the action has a massive target on it. Do you put an expensive tanky unit on action duty? Or a cheap, weak disposable one and hope you can keep the opponent occupied? The ability to get 9 points a turn is great and all, but a lot of opponents would be able to clear them off said objective.

Not tried Green tide yet. In theory if you're taking a horde it's easy enough. Spamming infantry units of all types. Though it is an easier secondary if you have second turn. Scores at the end of the battleround so is great if your opponent doesn't get to shoot you before you score.

Some factions have gotten better secondaries. But at least we have stuff to suit a few of our playstyles.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/29 23:25:17


Post by: Keramory


 xttz wrote:
Keramory wrote:
Uh oh maybe I screwed up. I thought if you had a detachment of 3 low (mork, gork and stompa) you DID get the kultur?


Correct

Keramory wrote:
And it only cost 1 cp?


It costs 6CP since the units have the Titanic keyword and Super-heavy detachments don't get the CP refund like SH Aux detachments

Edit: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/29/sunday-preview-green-is-good/

Codex release up next, alongside Combat Patrol, beast snagga stuff and bossbunka


Thanks. I thought someone on here said there was an faq and that xenos super heavys dont pay as much for some reason, that its really for imperium and chaos.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/29 23:39:35


Post by: XC18


 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
Hey these questions might have been answered, but there's already 8 pages to go through, so here it goes:

1. Do any of our secondaries in the book seem especially strong? I know secondaries are often situational, but I was wondering if any jumped out at anyone as auto takes.


If I play melee oriented army (don't own any buggies) and I face a shooty army, I think Stomp em good could be nice, as it ignores the number of my units wiped by shooting, and the dead gretchins units.
Not strong- cause not reliable at all, but a good candidate for that 3rd secondary that I always have trouble to chose.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/30 02:31:58


Post by: OOTN


Played a couple games vs Sisters this weekend. Learned that Blood Axes are very good for buggies and kannonwagons. Being able to fall back and shoot is vital sometimes, and the light cover doesn't hurt either. Also learned that boyz are not good, in either form, but at least choppaz have a chance at doing something. Badrukk is probably better than a shokk attack gun. Flash Gitz are in a super weird place where they need to be in a transport to survive, but also don't want that transport to move, and also can't use their shoot twice stratagem in a transport, and also can't use badrukks aura while in transport.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/30 07:22:05


Post by: AarresaariAarre


 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
Hey these questions might have been answered, but there's already 8 pages to go through, so here it goes:

1. Do any of our secondaries in the book seem especially strong? I know secondaries are often situational, but I was wondering if any jumped out at anyone as auto takes.

Definitely not an auto take, but I've found Da Biggest and Da Best to be half decent when you're doing the Battlewagon-Ghaz trick. The transport basically makes him unhurtable for the first turn and after that makes it very hard for the opponent to screen him off properly. IMO Ghaz's biggest weakness is how inefficiently pointwise he deals with chaff, but that secondary kinda turns it around, making it perfectly fine to go reap VPs from whatever gits there are on his way. You can even start scoring from t1 if going second and the opponent pushed for the mid-board. Just stay away from Dark Angels and 4++ terminators in general.

It's a risky secondary any which way you look at it, depending on a single model's survival. But it gives a nice boost to Ghaz's utility, provides you with much better board control and in an aggressive list with multiple early threats isn't that hard to pull through.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/30 08:29:37


Post by: Beardedragon


So i thought about something with the whole, interaction between transports giving their buffs to embarked units. I dont know if its a good interaction at all, but well.. its there.

modifiers given to transports is given to the embarked models, and as their own example given in the FAQ, +/- to hit and wound was made.

That would also mean that if you have 3 kill rigs or 3 hunta rigs and you use the stratagem, Monster hunters to give up to 3 beast snagga units +1 to wound, and those hunta rigs/kill rigs have beast snagga boys embarked, they too would receive +1 to wound with their pistols.

So you would hit on 4s, both rigs and boys, and if its a toughness 7 model your boys would wound on 4+and rigs better than that with its own guns. if you have kill rigs or hunta rigs with beast snagga boys inside of them, you effectively go from 3 units that get +1 to wound, to 6 units.

According to rare rules i would assume thats how it works. There is a lot of rare rules interactions with our new codex, and i really wonder how much of it works like that. Like +1 to hit for trukk boy units and -AP modifiers from speedwaaaghs.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/30 09:48:10


Post by: xttz


Beardedragon wrote:
So i thought about something with the whole, interaction between transports giving their buffs to embarked units. I dont know if its a good interaction at all, but well.. its there.


I'm assuming that GW's intent for that interaction is that open-toppped transport passengers can still be subject to debuffs, ensuring they're not completely immune from counterplay while still being able to interact with the rest of the game themselves.

So an opponent not in an position to pop a troublesome transport still has the option to slap a -1 to hit psychic power on them instead.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/30 10:05:23


Post by: Zompa


 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
Hey these questions might have been answered, but there's already 8 pages to go through, so here it goes:

1. Do any of our secondaries in the book seem especially strong? I know secondaries are often situational, but I was wondering if any jumped out at anyone as auto takes.

2. For mekgunz: Is there a gun that is clearly a "best" from a TAC standpoint? If so, why?


1. DA BIGGEST can work with a Squigosaur Warboss simply because he has enough attacks to kill 5 models and enough punch to erase characters. Even one built "defensively" with something like the -1 to be wounded trait will probably still manage to do it every turn he actually gets in combat, only issue being that you won't be scoring this turn 1 unless your opponent goes first and lets you charge something AND you can keep screening your warboss in the subsequent turns to let him keep rolling trough the battlefield.

Other Warbosses could struggle with the squad mopping part, even with BrutalButKunning simply because they don't have enough base attacks/punch IMHO.

2. Kustom Mega Kannons, there's just no debate.
Mekgunz will die as soon as something looks at them angrily so taking 1 MW from Gets Hot! is hardly an issue (and it's limited to 1 each time you fire the weapon so whatever).
Smasha Gunz were wicked because they were cheaper AND their wounding system would ignore Transhuman and similar strats but now they're just meh.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/30 10:27:49


Post by: kingbbobb


Zompa wrote:
 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
Hey these questions might have been answered, but there's already 8 pages to go through, so here it goes:

1. Do any of our secondaries in the book seem especially strong? I know secondaries are often situational, but I was wondering if any jumped out at anyone as auto takes.

2. For mekgunz: Is there a gun that is clearly a "best" from a TAC standpoint? If so, why?


1. DA BIGGEST can work with a Squigosaur Warboss simply because he has enough attacks to kill 5 models and enough punch to erase characters. Even one built "defensively" with something like the -1 to be wounded trait will probably still manage to do it every turn he actually gets in combat, only issue being that you won't be scoring this turn 1 unless your opponent goes first and lets you charge something AND you can keep screening your warboss in the subsequent turns to let him keep rolling trough the battlefield.

Other Warbosses could struggle with the squad mopping part, even with BrutalButKunning simply because they don't have enough base attacks/punch IMHO.


i like STOMP ’EM GOOD - i don't think there are many armies that will defeat ork infantry using melee attacks especially since all orks are now minimum T5, i have played 2 games but these were against Tau and Eldar so it was always gonna work and get maxed out against them xD


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/30 12:41:54


Post by: SemperMortis


Had a bunch of games over the weekend and I can now confirm my belief that Kommandos are RIDICULOUSLY GOOD!

Played a mirror matchup against a fellow ork player who was leaning more into elite CC units like dreadz and the new squig riders and the new Beast Boss on Squigysaur.

Turn 1 I went first and deployed all my Kommandos 9' from the deployment zone as well as trukk boyz. I Called my WAAAAGH and bum rushed straight into his Elite Nobz armed with PKs, his deff Dread and his warboss. The Trukk Boyz double tagged his dread and the unit of Nobz while the Kommandos went after the warboss a unit of nobz and a scrapjet. First round of combat, all targets were dead. Kommandos mulched his CC Warboss and the scrapjet, the Boyz finished off the nobz without much effort and more importantly, hit a Tankbusta Bomb strat perfectly dealing 6 Mortal Wounds to the dread which was instrumental in finishing it off before it even had a turn to swing.

At this point the game was basically over (1k point game) as I had already gutted 2/3rds of his list in my opening turn and none of my CC threats had even received any return dmg, except the Trukk Boyz who had been interrupted by the Dread but had mostly whiffed and only inflicted 2 casualties to the boyz.

In every other game I played the Kommando/Trukk Boy double team was just a ridiculous good Alpha Strike. The only player who caused me any pain at all was Imperial Guard infantry spam ironically, and this was because he arrayed a unit of sacrificial guardsmen up front who ate my alpha strike, luckily my Kommandos were all in cover on turn 1 so when they got shot at they were a T5 3+ save unit that was able to weather the storm relatively well, enough at least to get stuck in turn 2 against his next line and finish off his biggest threats.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/30 12:50:49


Post by: Grimskul


SemperMortis wrote:
Had a bunch of games over the weekend and I can now confirm my belief that Kommandos are RIDICULOUSLY GOOD!

Played a mirror matchup against a fellow ork player who was leaning more into elite CC units like dreadz and the new squig riders and the new Beast Boss on Squigysaur.

Turn 1 I went first and deployed all my Kommandos 9' from the deployment zone as well as trukk boyz. I Called my WAAAAGH and bum rushed straight into his Elite Nobz armed with PKs, his deff Dread and his warboss. The Trukk Boyz double tagged his dread and the unit of Nobz while the Kommandos went after the warboss a unit of nobz and a scrapjet. First round of combat, all targets were dead. Kommandos mulched his CC Warboss and the scrapjet, the Boyz finished off the nobz without much effort and more importantly, hit a Tankbusta Bomb strat perfectly dealing 6 Mortal Wounds to the dread which was instrumental in finishing it off before it even had a turn to swing.

At this point the game was basically over (1k point game) as I had already gutted 2/3rds of his list in my opening turn and none of my CC threats had even received any return dmg, except the Trukk Boyz who had been interrupted by the Dread but had mostly whiffed and only inflicted 2 casualties to the boyz.

In every other game I played the Kommando/Trukk Boy double team was just a ridiculous good Alpha Strike. The only player who caused me any pain at all was Imperial Guard infantry spam ironically, and this was because he arrayed a unit of sacrificial guardsmen up front who ate my alpha strike, luckily my Kommandos were all in cover on turn 1 so when they got shot at they were a T5 3+ save unit that was able to weather the storm relatively well, enough at least to get stuck in turn 2 against his next line and finish off his biggest threats.


Congrats on your krushing victory! What clan did you take for this alpha strike list? I'm guessing Goffs? Also, how many kommandos ended up engaging with the Squigasaur boss? I'm kinda surprised that you were able to wipe him in one turn, given that you'd be wounding him on 5's.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/30 13:58:07


Post by: Jidmah


Keep in mind if you can reliably score 9 VP in a secondary you tend to win the game, so if you can archive that, it's already a decent choice.

According to goonhammers latest meta review a "good" secondary scored 7-8 VP on average.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/30 14:06:09


Post by: Afrodactyl


SemperMortis wrote:
Had a bunch of games over the weekend and I can now confirm my belief that Kommandos are RIDICULOUSLY GOOD!

Played a mirror matchup against a fellow ork player who was leaning more into elite CC units like dreadz and the new squig riders and the new Beast Boss on Squigysaur.

Turn 1 I went first and deployed all my Kommandos 9' from the deployment zone as well as trukk boyz. I Called my WAAAAGH and bum rushed straight into his Elite Nobz armed with PKs, his deff Dread and his warboss. The Trukk Boyz double tagged his dread and the unit of Nobz while the Kommandos went after the warboss a unit of nobz and a scrapjet. First round of combat, all targets were dead. Kommandos mulched his CC Warboss and the scrapjet, the Boyz finished off the nobz without much effort and more importantly, hit a Tankbusta Bomb strat perfectly dealing 6 Mortal Wounds to the dread which was instrumental in finishing it off before it even had a turn to swing.

At this point the game was basically over (1k point game) as I had already gutted 2/3rds of his list in my opening turn and none of my CC threats had even received any return dmg, except the Trukk Boyz who had been interrupted by the Dread but had mostly whiffed and only inflicted 2 casualties to the boyz.

In every other game I played the Kommando/Trukk Boy double team was just a ridiculous good Alpha Strike. The only player who caused me any pain at all was Imperial Guard infantry spam ironically, and this was because he arrayed a unit of sacrificial guardsmen up front who ate my alpha strike, luckily my Kommandos were all in cover on turn 1 so when they got shot at they were a T5 3+ save unit that was able to weather the storm relatively well, enough at least to get stuck in turn 2 against his next line and finish off his biggest threats.


Glad someone else is finding the same success with the Kommando/trukk boys alpha strike. What's your build for the kommandos and the Nob weapon on the boys?

I'm using two blocks of ten kommandos with a breacha ram, and PKs on the Kommando and boys nobs.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/30 14:25:37


Post by: SemperMortis


 Grimskul wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Had a bunch of games over the weekend and I can now confirm my belief that Kommandos are RIDICULOUSLY GOOD!

Played a mirror matchup against a fellow ork player who was leaning more into elite CC units like dreadz and the new squig riders and the new Beast Boss on Squigysaur.

Turn 1 I went first and deployed all my Kommandos 9' from the deployment zone as well as trukk boyz. I Called my WAAAAGH and bum rushed straight into his Elite Nobz armed with PKs, his deff Dread and his warboss. The Trukk Boyz double tagged his dread and the unit of Nobz while the Kommandos went after the warboss a unit of nobz and a scrapjet. First round of combat, all targets were dead. Kommandos mulched his CC Warboss and the scrapjet, the Boyz finished off the nobz without much effort and more importantly, hit a Tankbusta Bomb strat perfectly dealing 6 Mortal Wounds to the dread which was instrumental in finishing it off before it even had a turn to swing.

At this point the game was basically over (1k point game) as I had already gutted 2/3rds of his list in my opening turn and none of my CC threats had even received any return dmg, except the Trukk Boyz who had been interrupted by the Dread but had mostly whiffed and only inflicted 2 casualties to the boyz.

In every other game I played the Kommando/Trukk Boy double team was just a ridiculous good Alpha Strike. The only player who caused me any pain at all was Imperial Guard infantry spam ironically, and this was because he arrayed a unit of sacrificial guardsmen up front who ate my alpha strike, luckily my Kommandos were all in cover on turn 1 so when they got shot at they were a T5 3+ save unit that was able to weather the storm relatively well, enough at least to get stuck in turn 2 against his next line and finish off his biggest threats.


Congrats on your krushing victory! What clan did you take for this alpha strike list? I'm guessing Goffs? Also, how many kommandos ended up engaging with the Squigasaur boss? I'm kinda surprised that you were able to wipe him in one turn, given that you'd be wounding him on 5's.


Goffs. Squigyboss is T7, Kommandos get +1 to wound so they were wounding on 4s not 5s On average they get 9x5 for 45 attacks hitting on 3s. So 30 hits, goffs gives them another 7-8 hits (Something I continually forget btw), that is 18-19 wounds on average which are saved on a 5+, that averages 12-13 wounds. They utterly mulched him, it wasn't even average it was well beyond, and that isn't with the Nob swinging with his PK at all

 Afrodactyl wrote:

Glad someone else is finding the same success with the Kommando/trukk boys alpha strike. What's your build for the kommandos and the Nob weapon on the boys?

I'm using two blocks of ten kommandos with a breacha ram, and PKs on the Kommando and boys nobs.


Trukk boyz I am running naked, the Nob gets 2 choppas, Kommandos I'm running Nob with PK because its 5pts...why wouldn't you? And Distraction grot/Bomb Squig, no other upgrades.

I'm toying with a list idea of 3 Patrol Detachments with a warboss in each one, riding in the Trukk along with the Trukk Boyz

Warboss W/Headwhoppa Proper Killy (big boss/Extra Gubbinz)
Warboss W/PK Supa Cybork, Warlord, Brutal but Kunnin
Warboss in Mega Armor w/Da Krushin Armor, Might is right, (Big Boss/Extra Gubbinz)
3x 10 Trukk Boyz (including Nob w/2xchoppa)
3x Trukkz
3x 10 Kommandos with Nob w/PK Bomb Squig and Distraction Grot.
3x 10 StormBoyz W/Nob
2x 3 Deff Koptas
5x KMK in 3 units (two with two, one with one)

Declare WAAAAAGH turn 1 and you have 3x 10 Trukk Boyz moving 12, getting out, moving/advancing 3x 10 Kommandos being 9' from deployment, moving 6 and advancing if necessary. 3x 10 Stormboyz going full throttle for 18' movement(losing 1.5 models on average, but up to 3) and 2x 3 Deff Koptas Moving 14 and than either shooting or going flat out for 20 but they can't shoot. ***SIDE NOTE*** Deff Koptas get 12 attacks each as Goff/WAAAAGH at S6 AP-1 ***

That gives you 90 Ork Boyz/kommandos/stormboyz in your face turn 1, all with a minimum of 4 attacks each, most with 5 as well as 6 Deff Koptas which are either going for a charge as well or hanging back to fire missiles at your opponent. You also have 3 Trukkz with Warbosses in them which act as a really nice Turn 2 Threat and all of this is backed up by 5 Mek Gunz holding your rear line/objectives and happily plinking away with KMKs.

If you fail to get first turn you can position your trukkz out of LOS, Kommandos in Cover and either put your Koptas/Stormboyz in deep strike OR have them in cover/out of LOS as well. If your opponent spends their first turn plinking away at Kommandos in cover with a 3+ save and T5 and Mek Gunz hanging out in the back, well...not ideal but not the end of the game either.

I figure the Warbosses are just absolute beat sticks who show up turn 2 to absolutely wreck face.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/30 15:14:53


Post by: gungo


Kommando/trukkboy/stormboy spam is as close to a green tide that works this edition.

Still wondering if the campaign renown detachment is based on greentide.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/30 17:37:50


Post by: Vineheart01


So the beastboss and megaboss are coming up soon...and the same question i had before is still rattling through my head.

What, if any, reason is there for these 2 bosses to even exist?
Beastboss is basically the old footboss, but is a Snagga so slightly better. But overall underwhelming compared to the others and not really cheaper when you factor how much weaker he is.
Megaboss isnt really stronger offensively but at least he can be made annoyingly tanky.

Then theres the squigboss which is just ridiculous for its price in terms of offense. Who cares about defense when you kill everything before they swing at ya? Also hes faster by a long shot.
And of course, wartrike is the big thorn in the side in this decision. Virtually every list has a lot of vehicles right now, so a Speedboss is kinda mandatory. And for the before mentioned reasons that 2nd detachment boss is going to be a squigboss.

Unless you play a lot of 500pt games i just dont see why those other 2 bosses exist. Had the 1 boss per detachment rule not been a thing i'd run a megaboss over a megamek any day.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/30 18:15:24


Post by: Grimskul


 Vineheart01 wrote:
So the beastboss and megaboss are coming up soon...and the same question i had before is still rattling through my head.

What, if any, reason is there for these 2 bosses to even exist?
Beastboss is basically the old footboss, but is a Snagga so slightly better. But overall underwhelming compared to the others and not really cheaper when you factor how much weaker he is.
Megaboss isnt really stronger offensively but at least he can be made annoyingly tanky.

Then theres the squigboss which is just ridiculous for its price in terms of offense. Who cares about defense when you kill everything before they swing at ya? Also hes faster by a long shot.
And of course, wartrike is the big thorn in the side in this decision. Virtually every list has a lot of vehicles right now, so a Speedboss is kinda mandatory. And for the before mentioned reasons that 2nd detachment boss is going to be a squigboss.

Unless you play a lot of 500pt games i just dont see why those other 2 bosses exist. Had the 1 boss per detachment rule not been a thing i'd run a megaboss over a megamek any day.


I think the problem is that we know how GW works when it comes to rules. The design team makes the sculpts and then the rules team has to make unit profiles and rulesets around them. Since usually the sculpt team follows a certain theme when it comes to new batches of models versus when they just do sculpt updates, it wouldn't be surprising that they gave Beast Snaggas a mounted HQ to reflect the Squighog boyz and a foot version for the regular Snagga ladz. The rules team unfortunately then has to try and shoehorn the Beastboss into the codex even though his position is arguably already filled by the existing regular Warboss on foot. I feel like they could have definitely done a better job of giving him meaningful rules that doesn't make him seem redundant, but I would say that's why he even exists at all as an entry, and given that the rules writers certainly held back a lot on giving most of our generic HQ's distinct/imaginative bespoke rules, it's not surprising he doesn't offer Beast Snagga units anything different than regular Warbosses do.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/30 18:40:26


Post by: Vineheart01


Yeah thats the other thing that bugs me, unlike other armies our bosses dont do different things. All 4 of them hit things and hit them in varying levels of hardness or speed, thats it.
None of them have a different aura or gimick.

So its not even a debate of "better melee vs better support?" which further makes me wonder why he exists.
i get it that GW is notorious for rules/artists not really talking but the bosses we got now feel like the worst offender of that problem


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/30 18:49:37


Post by: Jidmah


 Grimskul wrote:
I think the problem is that we know how GW works when it comes to rules. The design team makes the sculpts and then the rules team has to make unit profiles and rulesets around them. Since usually the sculpt team follows a certain theme when it comes to new batches of models versus when they just do sculpt updates, it wouldn't be surprising that they gave Beast Snaggas a mounted HQ to reflect the Squighog boyz and a foot version for the regular Snagga ladz. The rules team unfortunately then has to try and shoehorn the Beastboss into the codex even though his position is arguably already filled by the existing regular Warboss on foot. I feel like they could have definitely done a better job of giving him meaningful rules that doesn't make him seem redundant, but I would say that's why he even exists at all as an entry, and given that the rules writers certainly held back a lot on giving most of our generic HQ's distinct/imaginative bespoke rules, it's not surprising he doesn't offer Beast Snagga units anything different than regular Warbosses do.


This. The entire codex feels like the development team was almost done with it, but then was pulled from them and released early with the beast snagga box.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah thats the other thing that bugs me, unlike other armies our bosses dont do different things. All 4 of them hit things and hit them in varying levels of hardness or speed, thats it.
None of them have a different aura or gimick.

So its not even a debate of "better melee vs better support?" which further makes me wonder why he exists.
i get it that GW is notorious for rules/artists not really talking but the bosses we got now feel like the worst offender of that problem


DG are the same though. You can chose between Typhus (re-roll aura, hits hard in melee, psyker), Chaos Lord (re-roll aura, hits hard in melee, some ranged weapons), Lord of Contagions (re-roll aura, hits hard in melee) and Lord of Virulence (re-roll aura, hits hard in melee, double flamer). One per detachment, just like warbosses.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/30 18:53:14


Post by: the_scotsman


 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah thats the other thing that bugs me, unlike other armies our bosses dont do different things. All 4 of them hit things and hit them in varying levels of hardness or speed, thats it.
None of them have a different aura or gimick.

So its not even a debate of "better melee vs better support?" which further makes me wonder why he exists.
i get it that GW is notorious for rules/artists not really talking but the bosses we got now feel like the worst offender of that problem


Damn really, because redundant warboss HQs definitely feel like the least of the 'what were you thinking' design decisions GW went with in this 'dex....

For me, the decision of 'hey let's give orks, the faction that really loves advancing to make up for their low base mv, who we used to distinguish from every other factions' special/heavy weapons by making them all Assault, who we just handed army-wide advance and charge, a new weapon type that STOPS WORKING if you fire it while advancing!!!' is the number one.

Like, i'm almost 99% certain that whoever came up with dakka weaponry just...didn't know that the default rule for weapons wasn't "Assault" and that if you change the weapon type to something other than Assault, you can no longer shoot it if you advance.

All in all orks seem pretty similar to drukhari in terms of their rules - some units that you look at and go "wait...can that possibly be right? it does HOW MUCH DAMAGE??" and then others that are just their previous incarnation with all the flavor and interest stripped away who can only be propped up through weird subfaction trait/army wide rule interactions.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/30 18:53:46


Post by: Beardedragon


At least theirs are casters so they can have different powers.

Ours arent casters so we just have generic: Walk over there and hit very hard" characters. with a single aura, +1 to hit.

There should be some leadership bonuses as long as our warlord is alive I feel. Lorewise boys tend to run when the warboss is dead, they often dont run before. So im not sure why every single ork unit suffers so much from morale. They took a step in the right direction with the waagh thing, but its like they didnt go all the way.

Leadership is such an annoyance and stops me from wanting to play the way i want to the most, with a big blob of boys.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/30 19:01:26


Post by: Grimskul


Beardedragon wrote:
At least theirs are casters so they can have different powers.

Ours arent so we just have generic: Walk over there and hit very hard" characters.

There should be some leadership bonuses as long as our warlord is alive I feel. Lorewise boys tend to run when the warboss is dead, they often dont run before. So im not sure why every single ork unit suffers so much from morale. They took a step in the right direction with the waagh thing, but its like they didnt go all the way.

Leadership is such an annoyance and stops me from wanting to play the way i want to the most, with a big blob of boys.


Our only way of making WB feel distinct and flavourful is basically taking extra WL traits and relics to make them do their job of being tanky or killy better. That's about it. Which is a little disappointing when I feel like they could have shifted more towards Ork Warbosses having the same obsessive tendencies as some of the Ork specialists like Tankbustas, Burna Boyz and Speed Freeks, which makes sense since usually most Orks who rise to the top are basically the biggest versions of these kinds of Orks. Having more ways to reflect guys like Nazdreg and the Arch-Arsonist of Charadon would have been nice.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 00:49:04


Post by: The Shrike


I have a game tomorrow, and I really don’t want to cheat. I play Freebootaz. It is my understanding that in a Superheavy Auxiliary Detachment, A Stompa cannot gain the detachment abilities of Freebootaz, but IS a Freebootaz unit and hence can kick off the buffs for the rest of the army. But, Battlescribe seems to disagree with me.

Who’s right?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 02:09:16


Post by: Grimskul


 The Shrike wrote:
I have a game tomorrow, and I really don’t want to cheat. I play Freebootaz. It is my understanding that in a Superheavy Auxiliary Detachment, A Stompa cannot gain the detachment abilities of Freebootaz, but IS a Freebootaz unit and hence can kick off the buffs for the rest of the army. But, Battlescribe seems to disagree with me.

Who’s right?


You have it correct, since your Stompa still has the Freeboota keyword even if it doesn't personally benefit from the detachment abilities. So long as you kill a unit with the Stompa, every other Freeboota unit in your army gets +1 to hit that phase.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 02:25:07


Post by: Keramory


Thinking about throwing nobs in as trukk boys because their models are so cool. 10-12 choppa/bigchoppa/pks

Sound decent enough or is it really that bad?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 02:39:07


Post by: OOTN


A squigosaur with ard as nails and the beasthide mantle sounds hilariously hard to kill. Wounded on 6's unless you have S7, 5+ Invuln, 5+ FNP, -1 damage.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 02:59:58


Post by: Afrodactyl


 OOTN wrote:
A squigosaur with ard as nails and the beasthide mantle sounds hilariously hard to kill. Wounded on 6's unless you have S7, 5+ Invuln, 5+ FNP, -1 damage.


It's silly really. Definitely one of my MVPs lately. It either soaks up soooo much firepower that everything else gets left alone, or it gets ignored and causes chaos.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 04:01:35


Post by: cody.d.


A mega armoured boss with ard as nails and krusin' armour is also a solid tanky option. No damage reduction but great armour saves backed up by the -1 to wound rolls.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 05:09:05


Post by: koooaei


You can technically gain -1+ armor in cover.
Megaboss/megamek + Bad moon best armor teef can buy + crushin' armor + being in cover.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 07:09:57


Post by: Tomsug


 Vineheart01 wrote:
So the beastboss and megaboss are coming up soon...and the same question i had before is still rattling through my head.

What, if any, reason is there for these 2 bosses to even exist?
Beastboss is basically the old footboss, but is a Snagga so slightly better. But overall underwhelming compared to the others and not really cheaper when you factor how much weaker he is.
Megaboss isnt really stronger offensively but at least he can be made annoyingly tanky.

Then theres the squigboss which is just ridiculous for its price in terms of offense. Who cares about defense when you kill everything before they swing at ya? Also hes faster by a long shot.
And of course, wartrike is the big thorn in the side in this decision. Virtually every list has a lot of vehicles right now, so a Speedboss is kinda mandatory. And for the before mentioned reasons that 2nd detachment boss is going to be a squigboss.

Unless you play a lot of 500pt games i just dont see why those other 2 bosses exist. Had the 1 boss per detachment rule not been a thing i'd run a megaboss over a megamek any day.


Yeah and than there is a Warboss on Warbike….
Don ' t even mention, you can take two Beastbosses on Squigosaur.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 09:05:55


Post by: Blackie


 Vineheart01 wrote:


What, if any, reason is there for these 2 bosses to even exist?


Rule wise? Same reason why primaris were released in the first place. None!

We got two almost identical HQs, like SM with their captains, so ork players can buy more models. Having different flavours they also allow hobbysts to collect, and eventually play, thematic armies.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 09:31:32


Post by: Jidmah


Well, the MA warboss was a much requested model after he was legend'ed.

The beastboss on foot though? IMO just an inferior version of the Orruk Megaboss, a side grade to the least used Ork HQ with a vastly better mounted version.

I don't think there is a model in the ork range that I have less interest in than in that guy.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 10:29:22


Post by: Blackie


Painboss maybe?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 11:16:52


Post by: gungo


 Blackie wrote:
Painboss maybe?

Painboss is 3in to slow for replacing the painboy on bike… oh and the fact his rules make no sense for ONLY working on beastboys and warbikers for some reason. I have faith he will be better in another editon.

The beastboss has zero role and reason to be played. Even the kommando stormboy trukk spam list which can use 3 warbosses doesn’t want the beastboss. You rather take generic warbosses and/or mega warboss.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 11:32:22


Post by: Jidmah


Yeah, painboss is another odd one, but at least it's not a completely lost cause.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 12:31:07


Post by: Grimskul


 Jidmah wrote:
Yeah, painboss is another odd one, but at least it's not a completely lost cause.


Yeah, I feel like they saw they kinda dropped the ball when people started spamming master apothecaries with selfless healer left and right when the new SM codex dropped and they overcorrected it when we finally got a Painboy-type HQ again, by somehow making him not only a selective healer...but his selling point is that he's....faster? By like 2-3". I think they forget that barring squighog boyz we don't really have the same value that SM have when it comes to replacing entire models (not to mention we never had that ability to begin with).

Super-missed opportunity to have some kind of command phase "in-game boosts" where on a 3+ you get to choose what kind of "Fightin' Juice" he can inject into an Ork CORE unit within 3" to give +2M, +1S, +1T or +1A or something until the start of the next command phase. Hell, having a pre-game ability to cybork a CORE Unit with some kind of upgrade would have been nice too (the Mad Dok should have this ability to, like he used to).


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 14:33:00


Post by: addnid


Well if painboss was 45 points like the ad mech HQs (which as opposed to the painboss are really good) it would be fine.
Just as beastboss on foot for 55 points could be an option (I still think everyone would be taking sguigosaur for 115 but perhaps for small games ?).
I agree with the model team / rules team fiasco theory


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 14:39:03


Post by: Beardedragon


oh yea totally. the Painboss is a completely missed opportunity


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 14:49:08


Post by: beast_gts


Join in the Waaagh! Pick Up an Ork Miniature and Coin In-store in September - WarCom

Show multiple pics of the new Nob, but stick "*** The model you receive may differ from the one shown." at the bottom of the page...


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 15:02:53


Post by: gungo


I think they wanted the painboss to keep up with warbikers which is the only reason to give him that keyword for fnp. But with only a 3in aura and 7in movement. Warbikers are out of his range first turn. He honestly need to be 10in movement to keep up with squigriders and warbikers if he advances.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 15:10:10


Post by: Grimskul


It stings more because as far as models go, we were super spoiled for this release. It just sucks that the rules quality isn't on par with what we got in terms of model-quality (new boyz and the somewhat iffy Beastboss/Kill-Rig kit aside).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
gungo wrote:
I think they wanted the painboss to keep up with warbikers which is the only reason to give him that keyword for fnp. But with only a 3in aura and 7in movement. Warbikers are out of his range first turn. He honestly need to be 10in movement to keep up with squigriders and warbikers if he advances.


Yeah, I think they should have bit the bullet and just either gave him an auto-advance ability of 6" or 10" movement base.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
beast_gts wrote:
Join in the Waaagh! Pick Up an Ork Miniature and Coin In-store in September - WarCom

Show multiple pics of the new Nob, but stick "*** The model you receive may differ from the one shown." at the bottom of the page...


Does the coin come in with a purchase or do you have to pay for it as well?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 15:21:22


Post by: beast_gts


 Grimskul wrote:
Does the coin come in with a purchase or do you have to pay for it as well?
You get a coin for every £60 you spend - I think the Ork one is the 9th one released.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 17:11:40


Post by: Keramory


I saw on fb that apparently some gw employee mentioned its the old nob. So... take that for what it is. Gw stores are too far away for me to play investigator myself


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 17:13:05


Post by: beast_gts


Keramory wrote:
I saw on fb that apparently some gw employee mentioned its the old nob. So... take that for what it is. Gw stores are too far away for me to play investigator myself
Yeah - confirmed with my local manager (who is yelling at WarCom for showing the new one).


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 18:13:21


Post by: Tomsug


Nick Nanavati / drukkari vs Mark Perry / Orks

https://youtu.be/KX1CpO9Wx10

Marks list

interesting focus max on secondaries etc

And Blood Axe / Deathskulls

[Thumb - 4FC7E8D9-E71C-4EEC-A86E-E9B86774AE18.jpeg]


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 22:35:58


Post by: OOTN


Keramory wrote:
Thinking about throwing nobs in as trukk boys because their models are so cool. 10-12 choppa/bigchoppa/pks

Sound decent enough or is it really that bad?


Nobz are quite killy and do their job of massacring whatever they charge just fine, although they're the squishiest blob of points in your army. The main issue is that what they do Boyz and Meganobz can also do, and probably more efficiently. Theres nothing really wrong with them though. A full squad of 12 might be too juicy of a target, and will probably be overkill half the time.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 22:52:58


Post by: cody.d.


beast_gts wrote:
Keramory wrote:
I saw on fb that apparently some gw employee mentioned its the old nob. So... take that for what it is. Gw stores are too far away for me to play investigator myself
Yeah - confirmed with my local manager (who is yelling at WarCom for showing the new one).


Certainly would be considered dodgey from the advertising POV. Like if they showed a primaris marine then boom, they give you a random marine from the battle for maccrage box set.

To my knowledge they just get allocated a sprue or two, cut out and assemble the boxes then pass them out. So the real question is, what sprue is it? New boyz, old boyz, beast snagga boyz? I'm gonna want at least one of those coins, so the question is what's the bonus model? Also, here in NSW our stores are still closed due to lockdown.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 23:00:51


Post by: beast_gts


cody.d. wrote:
Certainly would be considered dodgey from the advertising POV. Like if they showed a primaris marine then boom, they give you a random marine from the battle for maccrage box set.
That's why they've got the "*** The model you receive may differ from the one shown." disclaimer.

cody.d. wrote:
To my knowledge they just get allocated a sprue or two, cut out and assemble the boxes then pass them out. So the real question is, what sprue is it? New boyz, old boyz, beast snagga boyz? I'm gonna want at least one of those coins, so the question is what's the bonus model?
It's the current Nobz kit they're splitting up. I wonder if the ammo runt is getting their own box or if the store is going to end up with a pile of them...


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 23:03:57


Post by: cody.d.


Even then, to show a model from one kit then package one from a completely different kit? Eeeh, feels meh. On the plus side, if it is the nobz kit. Well those are one of the better kits out there. Now if they went hog wild and gave us a flashgit? Well that'd be a laugh getting random bitz.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 23:21:53


Post by: gungo


I’m confused are you saying they are cutting up the nob kit and SELLING them piece mail? Or is this like a free nob with every ork purchase?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/08/31 23:39:32


Post by: cody.d.


gungo wrote:
I’m confused are you saying they are cutting up the nob kit and SELLING them piece mail? Or is this like a free nob with every ork purchase?


To my knowledge that's what they've been doing with the free model every month. Tell the store manager to cut up a sprue, send them a bunch of those one model boxes then just write off the sprue as part of a promotion. Seen the managers going through the process with the sisters model way back, getting some help from customers in the store at the time.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/09/01 04:58:11


Post by: Beardedragon


oh no. the battlewagon is 600 kr from 450 danish kr.

Thats like 95 bucks or something from the usual like 71 bucks. or 70 if we round down.

All because of the added sprue.

Im glad i already have 3 battlewagons.

the rest they release the first wave is:
Squig hogs: 350 dkk - 55ish usd
beastboss 230 dkk - 36ish usd
Snaggaboys 300 dkk - 47ish usd
bossbunka 400dkk - 63ish usd
combat patrol box 850 dkk - 135ish usd
wortsnagga 250 dkk - 39ish usd

I just converted the numbers from dkk to usd from google so its probably +/- one or two USD. I have the correct numbers in euros though if anyone wants that.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/09/01 06:23:13


Post by: Nym


Beardedragon wrote:
I have the correct numbers in euros though if anyone wants that.

I'm interested !

Especially the BW and combat patrol.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/09/01 07:01:02


Post by: Jidmah


Beardedragon wrote:
oh no. the battlewagon is 600 kr from 450 danish kr.

Thats like 95 bucks or something from the usual like 71 bucks. or 70 if we round down.

All because of the added sprue.

Im glad i already have 3 battlewagons.


What the heck - back in 5th when I bought all mine, you could get "battlewagon with deff rolla" from the GW web store for about 375 kr (in euro obviously), which was just the BW box with the upgrade sprue taped on top.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/09/01 07:35:48


Post by: Bossdoc


RAW, it seems possible to field a unit of 4 burnas and 3 spanners, since the Datasheet only forces you to take one per 4 burnas but does not prohibit taking more (to the datasheets max of 3, of course). That seems to be a cheap way to get some kmbs - on the other hand, it's about the same cost as a scrapjet, so probably not worth it...
And what is the general opinion on tellyporting the bossbunka? Seems legit atm...


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/09/01 07:53:07


Post by: Jidmah


I've been toying with KMB a bit and I don't think they are worth the trouble. It's better than having a big shoota, but often enough they just blow themselves up and then force you to roll on ld6 in your turn.

IMO, both for burnas and lootas trying to minimize spannas is the best way to go, which mean units of 9 with 1 spanna and 8 lootas/burnas.

As for the boss bunka, during my last 3 games, there would have been no way to place it other than corners of my own deployment zone, so it's essentially dead for my games. I suggest that you try the same thing, just check during your next games whether you find any spot to deploy it.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/09/01 08:06:28


Post by: xttz


 Jidmah wrote:

What the heck - back in 5th when I bought all mine, you could get "battlewagon with deff rolla" from the GW web store for about 375 kr (in euro obviously), which was just the BW box with the upgrade sprue taped on top.


FWIW I bought a battlewagon + upgrade pack just before they went out of stock a few weeks ago and that worked out to £42.75 from a 3rd-party retailer (£55 RRP). New price will be £45 from the same retailer, or £60 RRP

Still a slight increase but not as big as I expected.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/09/01 08:27:49


Post by: Bossdoc


 Jidmah wrote:
I've been toying with KMB a bit and I don't think they are worth the trouble. It's better than having a big shoota, but often enough they just blow themselves up and then force you to roll on ld6 in your turn.

IMO, both for burnas and lootas trying to minimize spannas is the best way to go, which mean units of 9 with 1 spanna and 8 lootas/burnas.

As for the boss bunka, during my last 3 games, there would have been no way to place it other than corners of my own deployment zone, so it's essentially dead for my games. I suggest that you try the same thing, just check during your next games whether you find any spot to deploy it.


I don't think that a unit of 9 burnas is raw possible. You must take 1 Spanner per 4 burnas, so you have to include the 10th model... max for 1 Spanner would be 7 burna boys.

Yeah, good point on the foot print of the bossbunka. What did you use as proxy? Oh, and where exactly can I find the restriction on deploying it close to Terrain? Didn't find it in rulebook and mission pack, so probably some FAQ?

Edit: found it, core rules FAQ p. 3





Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/09/01 10:06:38


Post by: Jidmah


Bossdoc wrote:
I don't think that a unit of 9 burnas is raw possible. You must take 1 Spanner per 4 burnas, so you have to include the 10th model... max for 1 Spanner would be 7 burna boys.

Good catch, you're right. I didn't double-check but simply trusted battlescribe on this, my faul really.

Still, for lootas bringing less spannas probably is better anyways, for burnas you kind of need to reach the critical mass where they can wipe stuff easily and 7 might not be enough.

Yeah, good point on the foot print of the bossbunka. What did you use as proxy?

A Miasmic Malignifier actually. Most faction terrain seems to be roughly the same size.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/09/01 12:13:59


Post by: koooaei


 Jidmah wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
oh no. the battlewagon is 600 kr from 450 danish kr.

Thats like 95 bucks or something from the usual like 71 bucks. or 70 if we round down.

All because of the added sprue.

Im glad i already have 3 battlewagons.


What the heck - back in 5th when I bought all mine, you could get "battlewagon with deff rolla" from the GW web store for about 375 kr (in euro obviously), which was just the BW box with the upgrade sprue taped on top.


Got my BW last year for ~ 50$ (if you convert from rubles). But I got a ~15-20% discount.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/09/01 12:29:52


Post by: Grimskul


Big OOF for those new prices. GW gonna GW, I feel really bad for any new Ork players because GW really is gouging them price wise for those old kits. I mean, they've already made their money for the BW kit when it was released ages ago, anything more now is just gravy, could they not have just done the customers a solid and kept them the same price like they were combined?


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/09/01 12:47:29


Post by: koooaei


To be honest, the stuff is probably around the same price point-per-point.
Rolla wagon was what - 110 pts back than? Usually taken with 2 bigshootas to avoid being immobilized. And now a rolla wagon with 2 bigshootas is 145 pts.

Boyz were 6 pts - 9 pts now.

It's just that we get less models. But I'm tired of running hordes. I always wanted boyz to cost around 10 pts but be tougher and choppier. We kinda got that. When the rest of the rules will get brought in line with their 9 pts cost, they're gona be great.

I mean - they could get their fearless back and, maybe, something more - like easier sources of increased durability.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/09/01 14:42:54


Post by: Tomsug


 Grimskul wrote:
Big OOF for those new prices. GW gonna GW, I feel really bad for any new Ork players because GW really is gouging them price wise for those old kits. I mean, they've already made their money for the BW kit when it was released ages ago, anything more now is just gravy, could they not have just done the customers a solid and kept them the same price like they were combined?


Face to the fact of rapidly increasing prices of all resources across all industries and face to the rising inflation across the world and face to the big struggles with global suplies of everything, increasing prices of themodels are nothing to be surprised about. Honestly, I stockpiling the boxes and material last 6 months or something to have enough for the next year or two.

There is tons of topics about GW business models to be angry or sad with, but increasing prices is definitely not one of them. This is a story of everything right now.

What is most important of all however is the fact, that discussing GW business models is not a topic of this thread and sooner or later Jidmah comes and get angry. So skip it.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/09/01 15:01:28


Post by: Jidmah


Talking about new ork prices in general is fine, but going through the whole "why does GW do dis?" circle is not, as the GW suits are clearly not orks.

If you feel inclined to join dakka's creme de la creme on this topic, there also is this thread currently going on: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1680/797386.page


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/09/01 15:21:14


Post by: Beardedragon


 Nym wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
I have the correct numbers in euros though if anyone wants that.

I'm interested !

Especially the BW and combat patrol.


Actually im sorry they werent in Euros. i misread the Eud currency as Eur.

So i dont have an exact number for euros.

my apologies


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/09/01 19:51:37


Post by: gungo


Prices for the new models makes the snagga box a legit deal. Essentially free codex. There are still a few snagga boxes out there.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/09/01 21:34:09


Post by: beast_gts


WarCom wrote:Update: The original version of this article showed a different Ork Nob, who was clearly eager to grab himself five minutes of fame. That Nob has been reprimanded and the picture below now shows the correct miniature of the month, though it’s worth noting that the model you receive may differ depending on which Warhammer store you visit.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/09/01 22:11:19


Post by: cody.d.


So I reckon this weekend i'm going to try out the Drop pod style list. 3 bunkas in tellyporta with 10 flashgitz in each. In theory the bunkas should be able to soften up a unit and something else in the list can finish it off. Question is, after dropping nearly 1K points on the droppin' dakka, what do I build the rest of the list around? I'm thinking some ranged dakka in trukks with some commandos to get in the way first turn.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/09/02 00:19:17


Post by: SemperMortis


gungo wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
Painboss maybe?

Painboss is 3in to slow for replacing the painboy on bike… oh and the fact his rules make no sense for ONLY working on beastboys and warbikers for some reason. I have faith he will be better in another editon.

The beastboss has zero role and reason to be played. Even the kommando stormboy trukk spam list which can use 3 warbosses doesn’t want the beastboss. You rather take generic warbosses and/or mega warboss.


Yep, that theoretical list I made has no need for the beastboss...which trust me...I REALLY TRIED. I really wanted a Beastboss with the mantle in my list, but he serves no purpose that a warboss can't do for better/cheaper and he actually buffs my units as opposed to solely being there as a beat stick. I just would rather have that +1 aura everywhere possible rather than the mantle.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/09/02 04:46:09


Post by: Beardedragon


cody.d. wrote:
So I reckon this weekend i'm going to try out the Drop pod style list. 3 bunkas in tellyporta with 10 flashgitz in each. In theory the bunkas should be able to soften up a unit and something else in the list can finish it off. Question is, after dropping nearly 1K points on the droppin' dakka, what do I build the rest of the list around? I'm thinking some ranged dakka in trukks with some commandos to get in the way first turn.


I Think dropping 1 bunka is difficult enough with deployment rules of fortifications being they must be more than 3 inches away from any given terrain piece.

Not sure how one can properly fit 3. sounds like at least 2 of those will end up on your own deployment zone and flash gitz only shoot 24inches. unless bad moon then 30.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/09/02 11:16:17


Post by: Tomsug


Well, Goonhammer drops two interesitng articles for us:

1. Nick Nannavati explain in the whole article his concept of how makes orks works with the spam of small scoring units. See the list from the video I posted few days ago? That is that. Very interesting, despite the fact I don' t agree with him in his thesis “buggy spam cannot work” and I doubt, he can survive on the table until T5 and I think he lacks the punching power. Especially the lack of MW dealing units…. But his way how to deal with secondaries is definitely very effective.

https://www.goonhammer.com/nick-nanavati-talks-about-playing-orks-with-the-new-codex/

2. Competitive Innovation

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-global-waaaagh/

My favorit Australian player - Andrew Penn. - 1st in Adeliede with exactly heavy buggy list Nick consider to be no-go which is what I like on Orks. Anyway, his list is very much what has been discussed here before - combination of Freebotas for Dakka and Deathskulls for obsec elite infantry.

Spoiler:
FREEBOOTERS OUTRIDER-3 cp

WARLORD- DEFFKILLA WARTRIKE W/lord trait- Da Road Killa Relic :- Da Badskull Banna

2 SCRAPJETS 180
2 SCRAPJETS 180
2 SCRAPJETS 180
2 KUSTOM BOOSTA BLASTAS 160
2 BOOMDAKKA SNAZWAGONS 180
2 SQUIGBUGGY 180

5 KOMMANDOZ 50

DAKKA JET 6 Super Shootas Kustom job – more DAKKA 135
DAKKA JET 6 Super Shootas 120

DEATHSKULLS OUTRIDER -3cp

BIG MEK in Mega Armour w/ oiler grot 120

SHOKKJUMP DRAGSTA 85
SHOKKJUMP DRAGSTA 85
5 STORM BOYZ 55
5 STORM BOYZ 55

5 KOMMANDOZ 50
6 KOMMANDOZ nob w/ power Klaw 65

Army Total 2,000

6 CP Spent pre game.


Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics @ 2021/09/02 11:51:45


Post by: Jidmah


If anything, Nick has proven repeatedly that despite being an exceptionally good player, he doesn't understand how orks work.

He did a very similar article for our last codex, was wrong about most of it and failed to place with orks even once, and not for the lack of trying.