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Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 00:27:27


Post by: caladancid


https://jobs.games-workshop.com/search-and-apply/infringements-assistant

"Would you like to assist in protecting Games Workshop from risk through removing infringing and counterfeit products, ensuring that our customers can continue to enjoy our products for years to come?

Reporting to our Senior Legal Counsel, you will be part of our Legal team which handles a wide range of legal matters which affect Games Workshop including infringements, trade mark and copyright protection, competitions, dispute resolution and litigation, to name but a few!

As Infringements Assistant, you will assist with all things relating to infringements. In this role, you will be monitoring websites and sales platforms to identify infringements and counterfeit products and then you will follow a structured process for removing those products, reducing counterfeit products available across all sales platforms and websites. You will create reports for the business to be discussed at monthly infringement meetings.

We are always keen to ensure continuous improvement of our processes, so you will be involved in researching and identifying new ways for Games Workshop to approach infringing and counterfeit product removal and implementing improvements to the infringements process."



Where are all my "Games Workshop is just making these rules to have them, they won't actively go after people" bros at?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 00:37:32


Post by: drbored


Want to blame someone? Blame Disney for helping push copyright laws to this ridiculous point.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 00:38:31


Post by: phandaal


caladancid wrote:


Where are all my "Games Workshop is just making these rules to have them, they won't actively go after people" bros at?


Hope they don't take too long. Really need someone to help explain how 2+2=5 here.

Bonus points if they can work in Midwinter Minis immediately getting a YouTube copyright strike from GW for reviewing Warhammer+.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 00:47:24


Post by: caladancid


drbored wrote:
Want to blame someone? Blame Disney for helping push copyright laws to this ridiculous point.


I think I will probably just blame GW and their enablers.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 00:48:32


Post by: drbored


caladancid wrote:
drbored wrote:
Want to blame someone? Blame Disney for helping push copyright laws to this ridiculous point.


I think I will probably just blame GW and their enablers.


Will literally do nothing but keep you upset. You want change? Write to your congressperson about removing major corp monopolies on IP and relaxing IP laws internationally.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 01:20:25


Post by: phandaal


drbored wrote:
caladancid wrote:
drbored wrote:
Want to blame someone? Blame Disney for helping push copyright laws to this ridiculous point.


I think I will probably just blame GW and their enablers.


Will literally do nothing but keep you upset. You want change? Write to your congressperson about removing major corp monopolies on IP and relaxing IP laws internationally.


This might be asking a lot, but Games Workshop can also choose not to push the boundaries of copyright on their own, without the government telling them not to.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 01:24:02


Post by: NinthMusketeer


drbored wrote:
caladancid wrote:
drbored wrote:
Want to blame someone? Blame Disney for helping push copyright laws to this ridiculous point.


I think I will probably just blame GW and their enablers.


Will literally do nothing but keep you upset. You want change? Write to your congressperson about removing major corp monopolies on IP and relaxing IP laws internationally.
Yeah, voting is the way to take action against this.

Though really, of late my experience with the Warhammer community has been so toxic I'm not even upset to see GW stabbing it. Not happy either, just apathetic.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 01:37:13


Post by: yukishiro1


Average Americans have zero ability to influence copyright law. It doesn't matter how many times you write to your congressperson, you're not going to convince them to forgo the campaign contributions made to both parties to keep them in the pocket of people who like the current IP setup.



Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 01:40:16


Post by: H.B.M.C.


The jokes for this basically write themselves, but I will exercise a level of self-control and leave this one well alone.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 01:54:17


Post by: Goose LeChance


yukishiro1 wrote:
Average Americans have zero ability to influence copyright law. It doesn't matter how many times you write to your congressperson, you're not going to convince them to forgo the campaign contributions made to both parties to keep them in the pocket of people who like the current IP setup.



Yes. It's pointless and a massive waste of time.

The absolute only thing that matters is money. Don't like something? don't buy it and hope enough people follow you to force a change in direction or behaviour.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 02:03:23


Post by: jojo_monkey_boy


"What do you do for a living?"
"I am a poorly paid tool of corporate oppression."


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 02:24:59


Post by: GoldenHorde


All this for two animated series on warhammer plus lol


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 02:29:40


Post by: Ghaz


Meh. I read it as they're more looking to shut down stuff like what we saw in this thread.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 03:05:44


Post by: Azreal13


Where's the distinction, legally speaking?

You're just projecting a benelevonce onto GW by making a totally arbitrary difference between "good" and "bad" non-authorised use of IP.

Based on recent events what possible reasons could one have to think that GW make any distinction?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 03:18:50


Post by: privateer4hire


Life not sweet enough for you, citizen?” Dredd quipped as he eyed a half full sugar bowl.

They could get better coverage offering product vouchers as bounties.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 03:27:03


Post by: Ghaz


 Azreal13 wrote:
Where's the distinction, legally speaking?

You're just projecting a benelevonce onto GW by making a totally arbitrary difference between "good" and "bad" non-authorised use of IP.

Based on recent events what possible reasons could one have to think that GW make any distinction?

I'm going by the mention of 'counterfeit product' in the job listing and not just blindly listing GW as the 'evil empire' as it seems like you and so many others are wanting to do. I'm sure GW already has eyes on YouTube as we've seen prior to the launch of Warhammer+.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 03:52:06


Post by: Veldrain


This role sits within our legal department, however, no legal qualifications/experience is needed for this role.


This is the best part.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 04:00:49


Post by: BrianDavion


considering that 5 seconds on goggle lets me find several caches of pirated 40k codices/AOS Battletomes etc I think assuming GW is going to be focusing on C&Ding some guy drawing pictures of space marines on deviant art is proably a bit silly.

my guess is GW will be focused on going after pirates and recasters.. it'll be a full time job just playing wackamole with those places


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 04:06:51


Post by: CEO Kasen


drbored wrote:
Want to blame someone? Blame Disney for helping push copyright laws to this ridiculous point.


True, but GW these days is somehow making Evil Mouse Corporation(tm)(r)(c)(q)(


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 04:28:10


Post by: Azreal13


 Ghaz wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
Where's the distinction, legally speaking?

You're just projecting a benelevonce onto GW by making a totally arbitrary difference between "good" and "bad" non-authorised use of IP.

Based on recent events what possible reasons could one have to think that GW make any distinction?

I'm going by the mention of 'counterfeit product' in the job listing and not just blindly listing GW as the 'evil empire' as it seems like you and so many others are wanting to do. I'm sure GW already has eyes on YouTube as we've seen prior to the launch of Warhammer+.


Oh "its ok, they're just going after pirates and counterfeiters, anyone using the IP without permission in a positive way is going to be alright?"

I'm not painting GW as an evil empire, just this line of thinking as naive.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 04:29:46


Post by: drbored


Goose LeChance wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
Average Americans have zero ability to influence copyright law. It doesn't matter how many times you write to your congressperson, you're not going to convince them to forgo the campaign contributions made to both parties to keep them in the pocket of people who like the current IP setup.



Yes. It's pointless and a massive waste of time.

The absolute only thing that matters is money. Don't like something? don't buy it and hope enough people follow you to force a change in direction or behaviour.


Then why even bother complaining? You're just admitting that it's a waste of energy. Accept your overlord-provided food-paste.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 05:30:51


Post by: Goose LeChance


I don't care about youtubers personally. There are better reasons to stop buying GWs products.

I was just agreeing that trying to change IP laws is pointless. If you hate Disney or what they do, stop buying everything Disney.







Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 05:43:15


Post by: Tokhuah


This position is basically like working parking enforcement for a municipality that relies on predatory parking ordinances as a revenue generating stream.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 06:08:19


Post by: privateer4hire


And a staff discount!


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 07:44:09


Post by: Kinetochore


Going on the job description this looks more like hiring people to trawl ETSY, ebay and the like and ping people selling "counterfeit" stuff or using wording that infringes on their IP rather than shutting down fan art or youtubers.

How heavy handed they end up being with this and how much untrained staff push the boundaries of genuine copyright infringement is concerning for people who sell on these sites as they operate a "take down and never question copyright claims" procedure


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 07:44:26


Post by: jojo_monkey_boy


 Tokhuah wrote:
This position is basically like working parking enforcement for a municipality that relies on predatory parking ordinances as a revenue generating stream.


Lol 100%.

GW is a luxury brand. Regardless of where you stand morally on the topic, some people have turned to illegal measures to continue their hobby and, rather than combating the loss if sales by lowering prices, GW is just going after the counterfeiting.

I guess you can't really blame them. But then, some could say the same about the people buying the counterfeit goods.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 07:49:26


Post by: Cronch


drbored wrote:
caladancid wrote:
drbored wrote:
Want to blame someone? Blame Disney for helping push copyright laws to this ridiculous point.


I think I will probably just blame GW and their enablers.


Will literally do nothing but keep you upset. You want change? Write to your congressperson about removing major corp monopolies on IP and relaxing IP laws internationally.

USA, while powerful, isn't responsible for UK IP laws.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 07:51:22


Post by: Flinty


I’d like to see the minutes of the monthly infringement meeting. I like to imagine flickering candles and sinister hoods


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How does one formally record the ominous tolling of the bell of woe? Maybe they also give training.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 07:58:40


Post by: jojo_monkey_boy


 Flinty wrote:

How does one formally record the ominous tolling of the bell of woe?


I think it's the sound of a cash register opening whenever the low-pay mook doing this job uses their staff discount in exchange for being a narc.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 08:05:14


Post by: BrianDavion


I doubt this position is a new one, every company with an IP worth a damn has people on their payroll doing stuff like this I suspect


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 08:11:01


Post by: a_typical_hero


The job description leaves room for interpretation what exactly GW will be looking for to sue or send C&D letters to.

Do we think they will handle Youtube channels and fan sites differently from the last few months because of that one additional staff member?

Why not wait and see what comes out of it instead of getting worked up on things that haven't happened, yet?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 08:19:10


Post by: Turnip Jedi


But, as someone else told me, aren't a lot of the recasters kind of out of reach in parts of the world with a fluid take on IP

So it'll just be swinging at the low hanging fruit with the odd overstep lest the record profits become less recordy


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 08:21:28


Post by: Not Online!!!


 Turnip Jedi wrote:
But, as someone else told me, aren't a lot of the recasters kind of out of reach in parts of the world with a fluid take on IP

So it'll just be swinging at the low hanging fruit with the odd overstep lest the record profits become less recordy




This.

Neither russia nor Chinacast will care.
this will just target 3d Printing community and artists in there for either Infringement or imagined infringement.


Frankly this is just more of the most recent trend of GW further targetting community goodwill for no other reason then to look good to investors.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 08:24:22


Post by: jojo_monkey_boy


 Turnip Jedi wrote:
So it'll just be swinging at the low hanging fruit with the odd overstep lest the record profits become less recordy


It's hard to imagine all of the recast sales were missed sales to GW. An unaffordable price does not just become affordable due to a lack of alternative.

Anyone who can stomach GW prices was likely already buying legit products to begin with.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 08:25:33


Post by: Pacific


 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
"What do you do for a living?"
"I am a poorly paid tool of corporate oppression."


I know people often make this claim, but this really did make me spit out my coffee (well cup of tea) while reading


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 08:28:56


Post by: Andykp


Are all these people bemoaning GW here saying that copyright infringement, the making of counterfeit goods are ok??

Because a company is big it shouldn’t protect its IP and actual products?

WTF?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 08:34:07


Post by: Not Online!!!


Considering gw's ip if created nowadays would get C&Ded the feth out off?

Or the fact that it already attempted to target what was protected under "Fair Use"...



Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 08:42:04


Post by: Turnip Jedi


Andykp wrote:
Are all these people bemoaning GW here saying that copyright infringement, the making of counterfeit goods are ok??

Because a company is big it shouldn’t protect its IP and actual products?

WTF?


No, it's just the shaky narrative of somehow doing us a favour when like you say its about protecting IP and wotnot

And like Jojo said it isn't really lost GW sales as folks indulging in 3d or recasts never had the intention of GW purchases, of course I'm already damned in GW eyes for those Chapterhouse Jetseers I bought (as the 4 boxes of legit bikes I had to buy was offset by not buying a model that GW didn't do at the time)


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 08:43:16


Post by: Albertorius


Andykp wrote:
Are all these people bemoaning GW here saying that copyright infringement, the making of counterfeit goods are ok??

Because a company is big it shouldn’t protect its IP and actual products?

WTF?


Reductionism is fun, y'all!

For starters? Let us all remember that, for something to be a counterfeit, there must exist something you're counterfeiting it from. Not "using the same aesthetics" or "being substitutes for" but actual counterfeits like resin clones or something.

So you're kind of sweeping a lot of things under a very broad rug that probably won't fit under it.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 08:49:07


Post by: Lord Kragan


drbored wrote:
caladancid wrote:
drbored wrote:
Want to blame someone? Blame Disney for helping push copyright laws to this ridiculous point.


I think I will probably just blame GW and their enablers.


Will literally do nothing but keep you upset. You want change? Write to your congressperson about removing major corp monopolies on IP and relaxing IP laws internationally.


Ah yes, surely an american politician will get british ip laws to change.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 09:02:26


Post by: TheGoodGerman


This is hilarious.

They're hiring for a non-lawyer, assistant role. If that role is new at all and not just a replacement for someone leaving (which I think is far more likely), it would basically mean that they want greater capabilities to do the low-level work inhouse, as opposed to paying ballooned fees for external lawyers' assistants performing the same work, something they would have been doing for the past few years. In that case, it only shows that they've accepted IP protection work is going to stay with them for longer, and that they're better off not to outsource all of it (which for a UK company, is quite an insight).

But what some people on here make of this news… Well, I guess we'll see if hiring this assistant leads to a wave of new IP litigation.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 09:24:41


Post by: Albertorius


TheGoodGerman wrote:
This is hilarious.

They're hiring for a non-lawyer, assistant role. If that role is new at all and not just a replacement for someone leaving (which I think is far more likely), it would basically mean that they want greater capabilities to do the low-level work inhouse, as opposed to paying ballooned fees for external lawyers' assistants performing the same work, something they would have been doing for the past few years. In that case, it only shows that they've accepted IP protection work is going to stay with them for longer, and that they're better off not to outsource all of it (which for a UK company, is quite an insight).

But what some people on here make of this news… Well, I guess we'll see if hiring this assistant leads to a wave of new IP litigation.

I mean... we're already in a new wave of C&D, so...


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 09:31:06


Post by: Mentlegen324


I think it's absurd how so many seem to be trying to make out GW as being bad by doing this. Should they not be allowed to stop unauthorized uses of their IP?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 09:32:54


Post by: Spoletta


To me this sounds more like hiring to get rid of the STCs going around, which I can't really blame them for.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 09:49:09


Post by: TheGoodGerman


 Albertorius wrote:
TheGoodGerman wrote:
This is hilarious.

They're hiring for a non-lawyer, assistant role. If that role is new at all and not just a replacement for someone leaving (which I think is far more likely), it would basically mean that they want greater capabilities to do the low-level work inhouse, as opposed to paying ballooned fees for external lawyers' assistants performing the same work, something they would have been doing for the past few years. In that case, it only shows that they've accepted IP protection work is going to stay with them for longer, and that they're better off not to outsource all of it (which for a UK company, is quite an insight).

But what some people on here make of this news… Well, I guess we'll see if hiring this assistant leads to a wave of new IP litigation.

I mean... we're already in a new wave of C&D, so...

Just clicked on the job advert. It is still open, so the new person cannot have done much yet.

But I'll admit I'm not monitoring GW. What is this wave, an increase in C&D letters? Where, and against whom?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 09:51:11


Post by: lord_blackfang


Now hiring: professional snitch

Don't think for a moment this dude won't flag minor infractions like fanart when he needs to meet quota.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 10:08:51


Post by: StraightSilver


Just to add a bit of context for those outside of the UK (where GW is based).

The UK used to be part of WIPO (World Intellectual Property Organization).

This was a group of 193 member states who collaborated together to protect intellectual property.

However, from September 2021 (the end of the 9 month Brexit transition period), the UK actually leaves WIPO.

This was one of those "unforeseen" consequences of Brexit (which is ridiculous but hey, the whole thing has been a clown show...).

The UK may well rejoin WIPO but, for the time being, is on its own and is now UKIPO.

This has both weakened IP protection for UK companies, but at the same time because we now sit outside WIPO allows UK companies to go after infringements within those 193 member states that they couldn't before.

So if you're wondering why, all of a sudden GW seem to be making a big deal regarding IP protection, it's because UK companies are currently panicking as they don't actually know how to protect their IP.....


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 10:15:11


Post by: Pacific


That's very interesting to read StraightSilver - thanks for adding a bit of context there. Would certainly explain why GW recently seems to have been going back to the late 00's recently with the legal ongoings.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 10:15:26


Post by: MarkNorfolk


StraightSilver wrote:
Just to add a bit of context for those outside of the UK (where GW is based).

The UK used to be part of WIPO (World Intellectual Property Organization).

This was a group of 193 member states who collaborated together to protect intellectual property.

However, from September 2021 (the end of the 9 month Brexit transition period), the UK actually leaves WIPO.

This was one of those "unforeseen" consequences of Brexit (which is ridiculous but hey, the whole thing has been a clown show...).

The UK may well rejoin WIPO but, for the time being, is on its own and is now UKIPO.

This has both weakened IP protection for UK companies, but at the same time because we now sit outside WIPO allows UK companies to go after infringements within those 193 member states that they couldn't before.

So if you're wondering why, all of a sudden GW seem to be making a big deal regarding IP protection, it's because UK companies are currently panicking as they don't actually know how to protect their IP.....


Ah Brexit. The gift that keeps on giving.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 10:16:12


Post by: The Phazer


caladancid wrote:
https://jobs.games-workshop.com/search-and-apply/infringements-assistant
Where are all my "Games Workshop is just making these rules to have them, they won't actively go after people" bros at?


GW already has these, and it's probably just replacing someone who's leaving so?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 10:21:25


Post by: lost_lilliputian


This is definitely intriguing.

I actually think this job would be somewhat interesting and also quite secure. Why do I get the feeling this position will probably evolve in the future to be part of a dedicated team if it isn't already. I think it can only grow from here.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 10:23:15


Post by: beast_gts


 Pacific wrote:
That's very interesting to read StraightSilver - thanks for adding a bit of context there. Would certainly explain why GW recently seems to have been going back to the late 00's recently with the legal ongoings.
It's not just GW - TT Combat is doing it as well, and have banned discussion of 3D printing from their official channels:

We would like everyone to be aware that 3d printing of alternatives to official product is not something we want to encourage so any posts in regard to 3D printented models will be removed.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 10:30:47


Post by: BrianDavion


lost_lilliputian wrote:
This is definitely intriguing.

I actually think this job would be somewhat interesting and also quite secure. Why do I get the feeling this position will probably evolve in the future to be part of a dedicated team if it isn't already. I think it can only grow from here.


my guess is it is part of a team. they're eaither simply adding to the team (for the reasons straightsilver indicated) or replacing someone whose retired.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Turnip Jedi wrote:
But, as someone else told me, aren't a lot of the recasters kind of out of reach in parts of the world with a fluid take on IP

So it'll just be swinging at the low hanging fruit with the odd overstep lest the record profits become less recordy


I suppose they could report those sites to google and try and get google to delist them from search engines.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 10:32:02


Post by: Albertorius


StraightSilver wrote:
Just to add a bit of context for those outside of the UK (where GW is based).

Pretty interesting, thanks for that

I find it funny how you mostly can end up anything regarding UK nowadays with "... and then Brexit".


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 10:33:40


Post by: BrianDavion


 Albertorius wrote:
StraightSilver wrote:
Just to add a bit of context for those outside of the UK (where GW is based).

Pretty interesting, thanks for that

I find it funny how you mostly can end up anything regarding UK nowadays with "... and then Brexit".


It's almost like it was a bad poorly thought out idea?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 10:44:55


Post by: Mentlegen324


 The Phazer wrote:
caladancid wrote:
https://jobs.games-workshop.com/search-and-apply/infringements-assistant
Where are all my "Games Workshop is just making these rules to have them, they won't actively go after people" bros at?


GW already has these, and it's probably just replacing someone who's leaving so?


Have you got a source for them already having them? The updated IP guidelines stuff was also a situation where people jumped to conclusions and said it was a sudden bad thing they were doing, despite the guidelines that were in place for over half a decade already saying the very same things as the "new" guidelines. Would make it all even more absurd if this is another misrepresentation of something they've already had for years that's suddenly being used for a "GW Evil!" narrative.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 10:58:05


Post by: Dudeface


 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 The Phazer wrote:
caladancid wrote:
https://jobs.games-workshop.com/search-and-apply/infringements-assistant
Where are all my "Games Workshop is just making these rules to have them, they won't actively go after people" bros at?


GW already has these, and it's probably just replacing someone who's leaving so?


Have you got a source for them already having them? The updated IP guidelines stuff was also a situation where people jumped to conclusions and said it was a sudden bad thing they were doing, despite the guidelines that were in place for over half a decade already saying the very same things as the "new" guidelines. Would make it all even more absurd if this is another misrepresentation of something they've already had for years that's suddenly being used for a "GW Evil!" narrative.


The job role feels like a standard legal assistant role that a qualified solicitor would have, they essentially do the pen pushing and leg work, then the documentation is filed under the solicitor who then conducts the serious litigation.

It would be odd to have two unqualified legal staff not reporting into an existing solicitor.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 11:42:35


Post by: Albertorius


Dudeface wrote:
The job role feels like a standard legal assistant role that a qualified solicitor would have, they essentially do the pen pushing and leg work, then the documentation is filed under the solicitor who then conducts the serious litigation.

Well, except for the "no qualifications" part ^^

Or is that something usual?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 11:45:00


Post by: MJRyder


 Mentlegen324 wrote:
I think it's absurd how so many seem to be trying to make out GW as being bad by doing this. Should they not be allowed to stop unauthorized uses of their IP?


Exactly right. Also, it's important to note that IP infringement (of whatever kind) doesn't just hurt a business in terms of sales. There's reputational damage to take into account, plus long term damage to the brand. This has the potential to become a much bigger problem than merely losing the odd sale here and there.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Now hiring: professional snitch

Don't think for a moment this dude won't flag minor infractions like fanart when he needs to meet quota.


I do wish you would stop extrapolating horror scenarios that simply aren't / can't ever be the case. This is 'slippery slope' fallacy, and one we see all too often on these boards.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 11:52:23


Post by: The Phazer


 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 The Phazer wrote:
caladancid wrote:
https://jobs.games-workshop.com/search-and-apply/infringements-assistant
Where are all my "Games Workshop is just making these rules to have them, they won't actively go after people" bros at?


GW already has these, and it's probably just replacing someone who's leaving so?


Have you got a source for them already having them? The updated IP guidelines stuff was also a situation where people jumped to conclusions and said it was a sudden bad thing they were doing, despite the guidelines that were in place for over half a decade already saying the very same things as the "new" guidelines. Would make it all even more absurd if this is another misrepresentation of something they've already had for years that's suddenly being used for a "GW Evil!" narrative.


I've met one.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 12:18:55


Post by: Mentlegen324


 MJRyder wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
I think it's absurd how so many seem to be trying to make out GW as being bad by doing this. Should they not be allowed to stop unauthorized uses of their IP?


Exactly right. Also, it's important to note that IP infringement (of whatever kind) doesn't just hurt a business in terms of sales. There's reputational damage to take into account, plus long term damage to the brand. This has the potential to become a much bigger problem than merely losing the odd sale here and there.





In the other thread about the guidelines there were plenty of people making the baffling claim that they couldn't try and protect their reputation and goodwill or that they shouldn't be allowed to do anything to stop that sort of damage to their brand and/or business.

There seems to be a lot of poorly informed jumping to conclusions and misrepresentation that goes on with any sort of IP-law related news. Seems the facts of it don't matter to some.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 12:26:08


Post by: Turnip Jedi





Still better than Simon Bates popping up and reminding you an 18 film may well contain the words muddy funster


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 12:31:48


Post by: phandaal


Seems like a lot of people here are saying this is a nothing burger due to the fact that Games Workshop isn't hiring an actual lawyer. Therefore, anyone who says this is another sign that GW is going to ramp up their IP enforcement attempts is a dum-dum, because a person in this role can't physically litigate anything themselves.

Is that the gist of it?

If so, then you should know that Games Workshop doesn't actually need lawyers for every aspect of their IP claims.

For example: Midwinter Minis got his YouTube channel copyright struck by Games Workshop yesterday for his review of Warhammer+. Think a lawyer did that, or was it some menial on Games Workshop's IP/copyright team who was tasked with finding things to strike - just like the role from the OP?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 12:48:15


Post by: TheGoodGerman


 phandaal wrote:
Seems like a lot of people here are saying this is a nothing burger due to the fact that Games Workshop isn't hiring an actual lawyer. Therefore, anyone who says this is another sign that GW is going to ramp up their IP enforcement attempts is a dum-dum, because a person in this role can't physically litigate anything themselves.

Is that the gist of it?

If so, then you should know that Games Workshop doesn't actually need lawyers for every aspect of their IP claims.

For example: Midwinter Minis got his YouTube channel copyright struck by Games Workshop yesterday for his review of Warhammer+. Think a lawyer did that, or was it some menial on Games Workshop's IP/copyright team who was tasked with finding things to strike - just like the role from the OP?

Except they didn't copyright strike, as Midwinter points out in the comments to his video himself. And it's still online.

The starting point of this discussion is a nothing burger. GW is hiring for a junior role, most likely a replacement for someone leaving.

Maybe GW is playing unfair with its IP law options. But them hiring some assistant is not a sign of impending doom.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 12:55:18


Post by: Pacific


beast_gts wrote:
 Pacific wrote:
That's very interesting to read StraightSilver - thanks for adding a bit of context there. Would certainly explain why GW recently seems to have been going back to the late 00's recently with the legal ongoings.
It's not just GW - TT Combat is doing it as well, and have banned discussion of 3D printing from their official channels:

We would like everyone to be aware that 3d printing of alternatives to official product is not something we want to encourage so any posts in regard to 3D printented models will be removed.


That's interesting, although I would have thought TT Combat probably have the least to worry out of anyone, as their prices probably undercut anyone doing re-casts or re-prints!


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 12:58:14


Post by: GoldenHorde


Derp derp.

GW thinks anything with wings is going to cause "brand confusion".... give me a break.

The double headed eagle is public domain. The double headed eagle is a historical symbol used by many cultures and empires.

The GW aquila logo/design is a straight up ripoff of the motif. It should not be protected trademark for that reason


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 13:00:59


Post by: phandaal


TheGoodGerman wrote:

Except they didn't copyright strike, as Midwinter points out in the comments to his video himself. And it's still online.



Wondering why you would choose to represent this as if Games Workshop didn't actually do anything.

Games Workshop took copyright action against his channel, which you obviously know if you read the comment he left.

The word that Midwinter Minis uses to describe the action doesn't change the fact that Games Workshop had to have a person go to YouTube and make a claim against his video.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 13:05:10


Post by: Not Online!!!


 phandaal wrote:
TheGoodGerman wrote:

Except they didn't copyright strike, as Midwinter points out in the comments to his video himself. And it's still online.



Wondering why you would choose to represent this as if Games Workshop didn't actually do anything.

Games Workshop took copyright action against his channel, which you obviously know if you read the comment he left.

The word that Midwinter Minis uses to describe the action doesn't change the fact that Games Workshop had to have a person go to YouTube and make a claim against his video.


This. Further reviews are technically protected aswell.
Therefore shouldn't Midwinters video fall in most countries under Fair use and therefore GW shouldn't have a right to demonetize?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 13:09:34


Post by: Stranger83


StraightSilver wrote:
Just to add a bit of context for those outside of the UK (where GW is based).

The UK used to be part of WIPO (World Intellectual Property Organization).

This was a group of 193 member states who collaborated together to protect intellectual property.

However, from September 2021 (the end of the 9 month Brexit transition period), the UK actually leaves WIPO.

This was one of those "unforeseen" consequences of Brexit (which is ridiculous but hey, the whole thing has been a clown show...).

The UK may well rejoin WIPO but, for the time being, is on its own and is now UKIPO.

This has both weakened IP protection for UK companies, but at the same time because we now sit outside WIPO allows UK companies to go after infringements within those 193 member states that they couldn't before.

So if you're wondering why, all of a sudden GW seem to be making a big deal regarding IP protection, it's because UK companies are currently panicking as they don't actually know how to protect their IP.....


https://www.wipo.int/members/en/details.jsp?country_id=62

Pretty sure the UK is still a member - unless the WIPO website itself is wrong.

https://www.wipo.int/members/en/

Membership had nothing to do with the EU, EU member states are signed up individually and not as part of the EU


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 13:11:40


Post by: TheGoodGerman


 phandaal wrote:
TheGoodGerman wrote:

Except they didn't copyright strike, as Midwinter points out in the comments to his video himself. And it's still online.



Wondering why you would choose to represent this as if Games Workshop didn't actually do anything.

Games Workshop took copyright action against his channel, which you obviously know if you read the comment he left.

The word that Midwinter Minis uses to describe the action doesn't change the fact that Games Workshop had to have a person go to YouTube and make a claim against his video.

You chose this.

The claim apparently is that Midwinter used too much of their video content in his video, so he should not generate profit from said video. Midwinter's objection is that, although he did use their content, it was not enough to warrant de-monetization. So he objected.

I think this is enough of a grey area to give them both the benefit of the doubt - both probably thought they were doing the right thing. Let's just see how this plays out, shall we? And yes, it's not a good PR move on GW's part.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 phandaal wrote:
TheGoodGerman wrote:

Except they didn't copyright strike, as Midwinter points out in the comments to his video himself. And it's still online.



Wondering why you would choose to represent this as if Games Workshop didn't actually do anything.

Games Workshop took copyright action against his channel, which you obviously know if you read the comment he left.

The word that Midwinter Minis uses to describe the action doesn't change the fact that Games Workshop had to have a person go to YouTube and make a claim against his video.


This. Further reviews are technically protected aswell.
Therefore shouldn't Midwinters video fall in most countries under Fair use and therefore GW shouldn't have a right to demonetize?

In that case he has nothing to fear and his objection will go through.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 13:16:20


Post by: Mentlegen324


 GoldenHorde wrote:
Derp derp.

GW thinks anything with wings is going to cause "brand confusion".... give me a break.

The double headed eagle is public domain. The double headed eagle is a historical symbol used by many cultures and empires.

The GW aquila logo/design is a straight up ripoff of the motif. It should not be protected trademark for that reason


I suggest you read up on trademarks, unless this is some disingenuous take, because it sounds like you have quite a strange interpretation of how they work.

A trademark is there to show the source of something. The function of them is to give across a message of "This thing belongs to ___" so that you can tell whos it is or what it belongs to and so they have to be identifiable for a specific company or brand or thing in a way that means you can tell them apart from others. Their Aquila is a uniquely stylized design that is recognizable as identifier for GW and their brand within the contexts its used, it being broadly based on a historical motif doesn't change that.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 13:26:16


Post by: Ghool


A copyright strike like that against Midwinter probably didn’t hurt his revenue at all.
If the strike did anything it most likely will have increased his channel subs, views and thumbs.
Simply because of this strike.

I’ve seen this happen several times now with a couple of different channels and it has done nothing but increase each channels subs, views, and watch time, which increases revenue.

While it might seem that GW is the evil empire (and don’t get me wrong, strikes like this are BS), but to even think it did Midwinter any harm at all in the short, or long term is a fallacy.

He’s likely making even more because supporters will flock to his channel solely for that reason. I don’t feel sorry for huge channels like that at all. They’re already cashing in on GWs IP, so it’s not really a big deal if a single video is flagged.

And it’s not like it’s difficult to find other companies that won’t hit you with C&Ds. It’s just that regardless of what GW does, gamers are so hopelessly enamoured with the company it won’t make any difference in the long run.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 13:29:33


Post by: tauist


So GW offering more jobs with a salary less than minimum wage? Slow news day huh


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 13:32:48


Post by: H.B.M.C.


StraightSilver wrote:
This was a group of 193 member states who collaborated together to protect intellectual property.
I'd never heard of WIPO before. That's interesting.

Let's see who some of their members are...

Russia
China

So what does WIPO do again?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 13:36:32


Post by: TheGoodGerman


 Ghool wrote:
A copyright strike like that against Midwinter probably didn’t hurt his revenue at all.
If the strike did anything it most likely will have increased his channel subs, views and thumbs.
Simply because of this strike.

I’ve seen this happen several times now with a couple of different channels and it has done nothing but increase each channels subs, views, and watch time, which increases revenue.

While it might seem that GW is the evil empire (and don’t get me wrong, strikes like this are BS), but to even think it did Midwinter any harm at all in the short, or long term is a fallacy.

He’s likely making even more because supporters will flock to his channel solely for that reason. I don’t feel sorry for huge channels like that at all. They’re already cashing in on GWs IP, so it’s not really a big deal if a single video is flagged.

And it’s not like it’s difficult to find other companies that won’t hit you with C&Ds. It’s just that regardless of what GW does, gamers are so hopelessly enamoured with the company it won’t make any difference in the long run.

Agreed.

Now having skimmed through the video in question, going against that is stupid by GW. Even if they might succeed in this case (unlikely, imo), it would still be stupid because there will be no benefit and they just alienate the community. But GW sometimes acts stupid, like all larger organizations.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 13:36:32


Post by: Mario


TheGoodGerman wrote:In that case he has nothing to fear and his objection will go through.
I think the video was demonetised. Meaning they get no money during that time from that video and by the time his objection goes through and it's reinstated the peak monetisation phase is gone. You don't get that back just because your video is monetised later on (for the little bit of a long tail that a video tends to have on average).

If somebody makes their money from these reviews and a company were to do that every time a somewhat critical review appears then that creates a chilling effect for the reviewer, even if things are technically corrected after a few weeks. That's is one of these "technically correct" statements that are, in practice, ignorant of the circumstances that cause the real damage.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 13:46:58


Post by: TheGoodGerman


Mario wrote:
TheGoodGerman wrote:In that case he has nothing to fear and his objection will go through.
I think the video was demonetised. Meaning they get no money during that time from that video and by the time his objection goes through and it's reinstated the peak monetisation phase is gone. You don't get that back just because your video is monetised later on (for the little bit of a long tail that a video tends to have on average).

If somebody makes their money from these reviews and a company were to do that every time a somewhat critical review appears then that creates a chilling effect for the reviewer, even if things are technically corrected after a few weeks. That's is one of these "technically correct" statements that are, in practice, ignorant of the circumstances that cause the real damage.

OK, that makes sense, I didn‘t take that into account.

I guess this is one of the risks when a „content creator“ signs up to that giant company YouTube’s terms.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 14:09:31


Post by: caladancid


TheGoodGerman wrote:
Mario wrote:
TheGoodGerman wrote:In that case he has nothing to fear and his objection will go through.
I think the video was demonetised. Meaning they get no money during that time from that video and by the time his objection goes through and it's reinstated the peak monetisation phase is gone. You don't get that back just because your video is monetised later on (for the little bit of a long tail that a video tends to have on average).

If somebody makes their money from these reviews and a company were to do that every time a somewhat critical review appears then that creates a chilling effect for the reviewer, even if things are technically corrected after a few weeks. That's is one of these "technically correct" statements that are, in practice, ignorant of the circumstances that cause the real damage.

OK, that makes sense, I didn‘t take that into account.

I guess this is one of the risks when a „content creator“ signs up to that giant company YouTube’s terms.


Maybe I am misreading what you wrote, or not interpreting it correctly, and if so I apologize up front.

But, are you still saying that we should hold GW accountable? It looks like, and again maybe I am imputing something to you that isn't true, you are bending over backwards to not have any blame on GW. If that is the case I am interested to know why? YouTube's policies, or any other policies, don't seem to matter if GW's behavior was better.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 14:24:50


Post by: Dudeface


 Albertorius wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
The job role feels like a standard legal assistant role that a qualified solicitor would have, they essentially do the pen pushing and leg work, then the documentation is filed under the solicitor who then conducts the serious litigation.

Well, except for the "no qualifications" part ^^

Or is that something usual?


Having worked in/alongside many UK legal firms, it's perfectly normal for the assistants to have at best a law degree (but not required). It's a good way of keeping salaries low, offloading menial tasks and the staff are usually there for work experience and on the hope of one day being offered a training contract to become a solicitor themselves.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 14:28:34


Post by: warboss


The ultimate irony would be if they paid these folks more than the chump change they reportedly did their games designers.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 14:30:24


Post by: meatybtz


 Azreal13 wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
Where's the distinction, legally speaking?

You're just projecting a benelevonce onto GW by making a totally arbitrary difference between "good" and "bad" non-authorised use of IP.

Based on recent events what possible reasons could one have to think that GW make any distinction?

I'm going by the mention of 'counterfeit product' in the job listing and not just blindly listing GW as the 'evil empire' as it seems like you and so many others are wanting to do. I'm sure GW already has eyes on YouTube as we've seen prior to the launch of Warhammer+.


Oh "its ok, they're just going after pirates and counterfeiters, anyone using the IP without permission in a positive way is going to be alright?"

I'm not painting GW as an evil empire, just this line of thinking as naive.


Not evil, just insane. Gone mad. Then again.. the whole world has gone bonkers so this isn't surprising.
#crushGW
#TeachGW a lesson.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 14:31:07


Post by: Dudeface


 warboss wrote:
The ultimate irony would be if they paid these folks more than the chump change they reportedly did their games designers.


I really doubt it.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 14:32:14


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


 warboss wrote:
The ultimate irony would be if they paid these folks more than the chump change they reportedly did their games designers.


Nah, the ultimate irony would be if they paid these dudes more than what they would lose if they didn't have them in the first place.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 14:41:17


Post by: The Phazer


phandaal wrote:Seems like a lot of people here are saying this is a nothing burger due to the fact that Games Workshop isn't hiring an actual lawyer. Therefore, anyone who says this is another sign that GW is going to ramp up their IP enforcement attempts is a dum-dum, because a person in this role can't physically litigate anything themselves.

Is that the gist of it?


Not really, it would also be a nothingburger if it was an actual lawyer.

GW has always had a team under legal looking at infringements, and given I've had half a dozen adverts on Facebook for that obvious scam advent calendar that came up the other day they clearly need them and it's appropriate for them to have some. Indeed, GW has had such a team since before some people posting in this topic were likely born.

TheGoodGerman wrote:
Wondering why you would choose to represent this as if Games Workshop didn't actually do anything.

Games Workshop took copyright action against his channel, which you obviously know if you read the comment he left.

The word that Midwinter Minis uses to describe the action doesn't change the fact that Games Workshop had to have a person go to YouTube and make a claim against his video.


GW will not have had a person go to YouTube and make a claim against the video, no. GW uploads a fingerprint of the Warhammer+ content assets to YouTube's ContentID system, and from that point YouTube's bots do everything. GW have very likely never even seen the video.

It appears in this case GW have not permitted a short window (say 1 minute) of footage that is allowed, and the ContentID bot permits. They should do that to be honest, it's good practice, but I'm far from convinced them not doing so is anything more than a balls up. Trust me, the ContentID UI is nothing if not gak.

This. Further reviews are technically protected aswell.
Therefore shouldn't Midwinters video fall in most countries under Fair use and therefore GW shouldn't have a right to demonetize?


The video is likely fair use/fair dealing in most countries yes (though I'd note that it probably isn't fair dealing in the UK because the credit isn't explicit enough. Obvious cockup that MWM should fix). But YouTube's contentID system isn't a legal system, it's a YouTube system and the law is pretty irrelevant. You want a video host that will respond properly and have a robust IP process? There are thousands available, they're just not free. You use YouTube, a free hosting service, and you get what you pay for there. It's crap. That's why it's free.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
StraightSilver wrote:
This was a group of 193 member states who collaborated together to protect intellectual property.
I'd never heard of WIPO before. That's interesting.

Let's see who some of their members are...

Russia
China

So what does WIPO do again?


The reputation China and Russia have here isn't entirely deserved. Russia is *very* hot on IP infringement, it's just only hot on IP infringement for Russian companies and doesn't give much of a toss if you're not. But most corporations get around this by having a shell company that's 51% Russian controlled to conduct takedowns in Russia. Yandex does a lot more copyright filtering than it used to once Western companies figured this out.

China has very inconsistent enforcement, but when it does enforce (and it does! A lot!) the penalties are extremely harsh. Multiple factories producing unlicensed Marvel and Transformers merchandise have been shut down this year, with the owners dragged out in cuffs and it being aired on television in China. But it's a big country and some areas are extremely corrupt and you end up with the consequences of that.

Still, I think anyone arguing WIPO doesn't result in enforcement of IP in those nations isn't correct.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dudeface wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
The job role feels like a standard legal assistant role that a qualified solicitor would have, they essentially do the pen pushing and leg work, then the documentation is filed under the solicitor who then conducts the serious litigation.

Well, except for the "no qualifications" part ^^

Or is that something usual?


Having worked in/alongside many UK legal firms, it's perfectly normal for the assistants to have at best a law degree (but not required). It's a good way of keeping salaries low, offloading menial tasks and the staff are usually there for work experience and on the hope of one day being offered a training contract to become a solicitor themselves.


Indeed. For example, BBC Worldwide have a large infringement team, but only a few of them are lawyers. And they have an outsourced vendor too.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 15:03:19


Post by: frankelee


If you're gonna take down GW for being too reporty about Youtube videos, take down Sony and Disney while you're at it. They used to go nuts with copyright claiming reviewers.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 15:06:25


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Anyone else keep reading the thread title as Assassins rather than Assistants?

As for the meat and bones? Kind of a non-story. Multi million pound company that relies on its IP seeking to protect said IP is….nothing new.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 15:10:44


Post by: Mentlegen324


Not Online!!! wrote:
 phandaal wrote:
TheGoodGerman wrote:

Except they didn't copyright strike, as Midwinter points out in the comments to his video himself. And it's still online.



Wondering why you would choose to represent this as if Games Workshop didn't actually do anything.

Games Workshop took copyright action against his channel, which you obviously know if you read the comment he left.

The word that Midwinter Minis uses to describe the action doesn't change the fact that Games Workshop had to have a person go to YouTube and make a claim against his video.


This. Further reviews are technically protected aswell.
Therefore shouldn't Midwinters video fall in most countries under Fair use and therefore GW shouldn't have a right to demonetize?


From what I've read this seems like a bit of a common misconception, really. Yes, things like parody and review are part of the stuff that can come under Fair Dealing exemptions in the UK, but it doesn't appear to be so much a case of "This is a parody, therefore I can use what i want with it" , they can still be infringement and it isn't automatically not infringement just because its a review or parody or whatever. The exemptions more so mean those might not be infringement, but whether they are or not doesn't get determined until action is taken and it goes far enough to properly evaluate either way. Fair dealing exemptions come down to judging the specific situation as to whether it's actually infringing or not, but there isn't so much strict criteria and its instead determined on a case-by-case basis. With this video it appears like quite a bit of GWs copyrighted stuff was included and they may feel that too much was used, it being a review doesn't necessarily mean it avoids that problem. The exceptions are for a limited use of copyright material, it's possible to use too much to be classed as Fair Dealing.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 15:33:39


Post by: caladancid


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Anyone else keep reading the thread title as Assassins rather than Assistants?

As for the meat and bones? Kind of a non-story. Multi million pound company that relies on its IP seeking to protect said IP is….nothing new.


Except that is the thing, this level of enforcement or attempted enforcement is new from GW.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 15:36:16


Post by: Pacific


Interesting to see the battle lines being drawn here as they were with the Chapterhouse threads from years ago..

Cue 300+ pages of people arguing with cries of 'burn the heretics!" and "Freedommmmm!" on either side

 warboss wrote:
The ultimate irony would be if they paid these folks more than the chump change they reportedly did their games designers.


Considering that someone washing dishes in a Chinese Takeaway probably earns more than the games designers that's not that much of a stretch!


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 15:46:47


Post by: yukishiro1


 frankelee wrote:
If you're gonna take down GW for being too reporty about Youtube videos, take down Sony and Disney while you're at it. They used to go nuts with copyright claiming reviewers.


This is just a great illustration of a misguided way to defend someone. It's both irrelevant - like a drunk driver who defends himself at trial by saying "everybody does it! if you don't prosecute all of them too it's unfair to prosecute me!" - and wrong even on its own terms: you state that these companies "used" to do the thing GW is doing now, by definition implying they no longer do so.

Some things can't be defended, and all attempting it does is void one's own credibility. GW's action on Midwinter's video is one of these times. It is clearly a review, and the amount of content he shows is clearly for the purpose of reviewing it. There's no way GW's IP objection here would be upheld. But it doesn't need to be, because GW knows it can make the objection in bad faith and still achieve its objective even if it is ultimately overturned. It's the definition of abuse of the legal process.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 15:48:06


Post by: NAVARRO


caladancid wrote:
https://jobs.games-workshop.com/search-and-apply/infringements-assistant

"Would you like to assist in protecting Games Workshop?



We are always keen to ensure continuous improvement of our processes, so you will be involved in researching and identifying new ways for Games Workshop to approach infringing and counterfeit product removal and implementing improvements to the infringements process."




Brilliant! New assistant, no legal expertise(probably not 100% aware of what an infringement is), underpaid and instructed to find NEW ways to frag "infringements" if he wants to shine.

Brace yourself guys its going to be fun to watch this.... I would say to reviewers, content creators to simply drop GW but what do I know.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 15:50:45


Post by: A Town Called Malus


Stranger83 wrote:

https://www.wipo.int/members/en/

Membership had nothing to do with the EU, EU member states are signed up individually and not as part of the EU


That is also true of EURATOM, yet our government threw in that we were leaving that as well in their Article 50 letter. Which then required us to negotiate a new Nuclear Cooperation Agreement or risk losing access to nuclear materials, research, safety and regulation enforcement etc.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 15:52:01


Post by: beast_gts


yukishiro1 wrote:
GW knows it can make the objection in bad faith and still achieve its objective even if it is ultimately overturned. It's the definition of abuse of the legal process.
If this is the case - report them to the relevant authorities. In the UK that's the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA), as acting without honesty or integrity violates their principles.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 15:57:53


Post by: TheGoodGerman


caladancid wrote:
TheGoodGerman wrote:
Mario wrote:
TheGoodGerman wrote:In that case he has nothing to fear and his objection will go through.
I think the video was demonetised. Meaning they get no money during that time from that video and by the time his objection goes through and it's reinstated the peak monetisation phase is gone. You don't get that back just because your video is monetised later on (for the little bit of a long tail that a video tends to have on average).

If somebody makes their money from these reviews and a company were to do that every time a somewhat critical review appears then that creates a chilling effect for the reviewer, even if things are technically corrected after a few weeks. That's is one of these "technically correct" statements that are, in practice, ignorant of the circumstances that cause the real damage.

OK, that makes sense, I didn‘t take that into account.

I guess this is one of the risks when a „content creator“ signs up to that giant company YouTube’s terms.


Maybe I am misreading what you wrote, or not interpreting it correctly, and if so I apologize up front.

Probably. Apology accepted.

But, are you still saying that we should hold GW accountable? It looks like, and again maybe I am imputing something to you that isn't true, you are bending over backwards to not have any blame on GW. If that is the case I am interested to know why? YouTube's policies, or any other policies, don't seem to matter if GW's behavior was better.

GW is to blame for its actions and I have called them stupid myself. They're just not this evil superorganization, but just a regular large-ish company that behaves mostly normal (and does dumb stuff occasionally, because people who work also make mistakes). From what I see their cultural problem could be that they are mostly immune against the consequences of their mistakes because their products sell like hot cake whatever they do - so they go from success to success and there is no incentive to question things.

Also I don't see much wrongdoing in the specific cases we're discussing here:

- They have a job advert for a junior role that happens to be in their IP protection team. Big deal. The uproar on this forum about it is out of proportion.

- They went after Midwinter because of this Warhammerplus review video. That is a stupid move and if they had watched the video, they should know there is nothing to win for them really. As „The Phazer" points out (with a citation wrongly attributed to me), it's likely that no human had actually reviewed the video before they "struck". This would be a plausible explanation, because their specialized IP law team likely isn't that stupid.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 16:02:54


Post by: A Town Called Malus


It is possible for "normal" behaviour of a company to still be unethical. It is perfectly normal for companies to exploit cheap labour with wages barely sufficient to allow workers to live, to the point that Fair Trade became a thing to distinguish the few companies which didn't do that.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 16:05:01


Post by: yukishiro1


beast_gts wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
GW knows it can make the objection in bad faith and still achieve its objective even if it is ultimately overturned. It's the definition of abuse of the legal process.
If this is the case - report them to the relevant authorities. In the UK that's the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA), as acting without honesty or integrity violates their principles.


I think you are confused here. That organization regulates solicitors, i.e. law firms, or similar organizations. GW isn't a solicitor. It isn't regulated by any sort of bar organization.

GW employs 6 regulated solicitors according to the website, but to get the SRA involved, you would have to prove they were behind the decision to make the youtube IP complaint, and were doing so dishonestly with the full knowledge that what they were doing was against the law.

Obviously there is going to be no such proof - they likely aren't involved at all in the decision to issue the strike, and if they were, they're hardly going to leave a paper trail saying "yeah, we know this is bogus, but we're going to do it anyway because we can! mwahahahaha!"






Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 16:05:07


Post by: TheGoodGerman


 NAVARRO wrote:
caladancid wrote:
https://jobs.games-workshop.com/search-and-apply/infringements-assistant

"Would you like to assist in protecting Games Workshop?



We are always keen to ensure continuous improvement of our processes, so you will be involved in researching and identifying new ways for Games Workshop to approach infringing and counterfeit product removal and implementing improvements to the infringements process."




Brilliant! New assistant, no legal expertise(probably not 100% aware of what an infringement is), underpaid and instructed to find NEW ways to frag "infringements" if he wants to shine.

Brace yourself guys its going to be fun to watch this.... I would say to reviewers, content creators to simply drop GW but what do I know.

Or maybe you are reading too much into this. The advert says the new person will be part of the legal team. That team will also have lawyers.

The non-lawyer legal assistants I work with are brilliant. Still they wouldn't send out lawyerly stuff without at least a signoff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:
It is possible for "normal" behaviour of a company to still be unethical. It is perfectly normal for companies to exploit cheap labour with wages barely sufficient to allow workers to live, to the point that Fair Trade became a thing to distinguish the few companies which didn't do that.

Well yes. But that would be socialism, right?

From where I stand, the UK runs a more extreme model of exploitative capitalism than where I'm from, and many practices you have would simply not be legal where I live (see e.g. zero-hours contracts). GW is hardly exceptional in UK with its subpar working conditions. Discussing societal changes leads too far here and goes way beyond GW anyway. The point with GW is just: they could be a role model in this field because they are basically printing money now.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 16:20:21


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


 frankelee wrote:
If you're gonna take down GW for being too reporty about Youtube videos, take down Sony and Disney while you're at it. They used to go nuts with copyright claiming reviewers.


Gladly.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 16:21:26


Post by: Billicus


Ooof, "Disney do it too" is really not a good defence my guy


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 16:26:11


Post by: yukishiro1


No kidding, but it isn't even "Disney does it too," it's "Disney used to do it too."



Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 17:19:54


Post by: Mentlegen324


yukishiro1 wrote:
 frankelee wrote:
If you're gonna take down GW for being too reporty about Youtube videos, take down Sony and Disney while you're at it. They used to go nuts with copyright claiming reviewers.


This is just a great illustration of a misguided way to defend someone. It's both irrelevant - like a drunk driver who defends himself at trial by saying "everybody does it! if you don't prosecute all of them too it's unfair to prosecute me!" - and wrong even on its own terms: you state that these companies "used" to do the thing GW is doing now, by definition implying they no longer do so.

Some things can't be defended, and all attempting it does is void one's own credibility. GW's action on Midwinter's video is one of these times. It is clearly a review, and the amount of content he shows is clearly for the purpose of reviewing it. There's no way GW's IP objection here would be upheld. But it doesn't need to be, because GW knows it can make the objection in bad faith and still achieve its objective even if it is ultimately overturned. It's the definition of abuse of the legal process.


"It's a review, therefore he can include any amount of copyrighted content he wants because it's for a review" is not how it works. A review can still be infringement.

You trying to claim that there's "no way" that when a 10 minute video includes a mix of random video footage of the app in use including showing copyrighted content such as rules, articles, white dwarf pages, parts of several animations, music and more with quite a lot of it shown just shown because of a general theme of " it's part of warhammer+", that there's no chance at all that it could possibly be determined that it may feature too much of their copyrighted material without enough of a reason for all that (whether all that actually would count or not is besides the point as that could only be fully determined via things going further than this) and that instead GW demonetizing that video must be them knowingly trying to abuse IP law has to be the most absurd take of this whole thing I've seen.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 17:22:17


Post by: ERJAK


yukishiro1 wrote:
No kidding, but it isn't even "Disney does it too," it's "Disney used to do it too."



I think this is probably the most misguided thing anyone has said in this thread. 'Used to' lol.

That said, fair use is an argument. Not a statute.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 17:22:27


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


 Mentlegen324 wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
 frankelee wrote:
If you're gonna take down GW for being too reporty about Youtube videos, take down Sony and Disney while you're at it. They used to go nuts with copyright claiming reviewers.


This is just a great illustration of a misguided way to defend someone. It's both irrelevant - like a drunk driver who defends himself at trial by saying "everybody does it! if you don't prosecute all of them too it's unfair to prosecute me!" - and wrong even on its own terms: you state that these companies "used" to do the thing GW is doing now, by definition implying they no longer do so.

Some things can't be defended, and all attempting it does is void one's own credibility. GW's action on Midwinter's video is one of these times. It is clearly a review, and the amount of content he shows is clearly for the purpose of reviewing it. There's no way GW's IP objection here would be upheld. But it doesn't need to be, because GW knows it can make the objection in bad faith and still achieve its objective even if it is ultimately overturned. It's the definition of abuse of the legal process.


"It's a review, therefore he can include any amount of copyrighted content he wants because it's for a review" is not how it works. A review can still be infringement.

You trying to claim that there's "no way" that when a 10 minute video includes a mix of random video footage of the app in use including showing copyrighted content such as rules, articles, white dwarf pages, parts of several animations, music and more beyond what is needed (as in, it's just shown for little reason beyond just a general theme of " it's part of warhammer+") that there's no chance at all that it could possibly be determined that it may feature too much of their copyrighted material without enough of a reason for all that (whether all that actually would count or not is besides the point as that could only be fully determined via things going further than this) and that instead GW demonetizing that video must be them knowingly trying to abuse IP law has to be the most absurd take of this whole thing I've seen.


"Including video footage of the thing you're reviewing in a review is bad and evil and GW is entirely in the right"

What?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 17:23:40


Post by: ERJAK


 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
 frankelee wrote:
If you're gonna take down GW for being too reporty about Youtube videos, take down Sony and Disney while you're at it. They used to go nuts with copyright claiming reviewers.


This is just a great illustration of a misguided way to defend someone. It's both irrelevant - like a drunk driver who defends himself at trial by saying "everybody does it! if you don't prosecute all of them too it's unfair to prosecute me!" - and wrong even on its own terms: you state that these companies "used" to do the thing GW is doing now, by definition implying they no longer do so.

Some things can't be defended, and all attempting it does is void one's own credibility. GW's action on Midwinter's video is one of these times. It is clearly a review, and the amount of content he shows is clearly for the purpose of reviewing it. There's no way GW's IP objection here would be upheld. But it doesn't need to be, because GW knows it can make the objection in bad faith and still achieve its objective even if it is ultimately overturned. It's the definition of abuse of the legal process.


"It's a review, therefore he can include any amount of copyrighted content he wants because it's for a review" is not how it works. A review can still be infringement.

You trying to claim that there's "no way" that when a 10 minute video includes a mix of random video footage of the app in use including showing copyrighted content such as rules, articles, white dwarf pages, parts of several animations, music and more beyond what is needed (as in, it's just shown for little reason beyond just a general theme of " it's part of warhammer+") that there's no chance at all that it could possibly be determined that it may feature too much of their copyrighted material without enough of a reason for all that (whether all that actually would count or not is besides the point as that could only be fully determined via things going further than this) and that instead GW demonetizing that video must be them knowingly trying to abuse IP law has to be the most absurd take of this whole thing I've seen.


"Including video footage of the thing you're reviewing in a review is bad and evil and GW is entirely in the right"

What?


Dude, can you read? Because like...it doesn't seem like you can.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 17:23:51


Post by: Galas


Thats not what he said. Like, at all.

I mean GW is scummy but theres no need to exaggerate what they are doing to critizise them. This is like when people comes and calls intercessors monopose. It weakens their arguemnt when GW is doing enough badly designed monopose kits allready to call out the ones that aren't.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 17:26:53


Post by: yukishiro1


 Mentlegen324 wrote:


"It's a review, therefore he can include any amount of copyrighted content he wants because it's for a review"


Is not what I wrote. If you insist on wasting everyone's time with egregious straw men, please at least have the decency not to put quotation marks around them.

Did you even watch the video we're talking about? You're just making yourself look silly here. There is just no world in which that isn't fair use for purposes of review. If you actually disagree, feel free to give some time stamps for where you think there's an argument that the displayed copyrighted material wouldn't be covered by the fair use exception for reviewing a product.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 17:27:40


Post by: Mentlegen324


 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
 frankelee wrote:
If you're gonna take down GW for being too reporty about Youtube videos, take down Sony and Disney while you're at it. They used to go nuts with copyright claiming reviewers.


This is just a great illustration of a misguided way to defend someone. It's both irrelevant - like a drunk driver who defends himself at trial by saying "everybody does it! if you don't prosecute all of them too it's unfair to prosecute me!" - and wrong even on its own terms: you state that these companies "used" to do the thing GW is doing now, by definition implying they no longer do so.

Some things can't be defended, and all attempting it does is void one's own credibility. GW's action on Midwinter's video is one of these times. It is clearly a review, and the amount of content he shows is clearly for the purpose of reviewing it. There's no way GW's IP objection here would be upheld. But it doesn't need to be, because GW knows it can make the objection in bad faith and still achieve its objective even if it is ultimately overturned. It's the definition of abuse of the legal process.


"It's a review, therefore he can include any amount of copyrighted content he wants because it's for a review" is not how it works. A review can still be infringement.

You trying to claim that there's "no way" that when a 10 minute video includes a mix of random video footage of the app in use including showing copyrighted content such as rules, articles, white dwarf pages, parts of several animations, music and more beyond what is needed (as in, it's just shown for little reason beyond just a general theme of " it's part of warhammer+") that there's no chance at all that it could possibly be determined that it may feature too much of their copyrighted material without enough of a reason for all that (whether all that actually would count or not is besides the point as that could only be fully determined via things going further than this) and that instead GW demonetizing that video must be them knowingly trying to abuse IP law has to be the most absurd take of this whole thing I've seen.


"Including video footage of the thing you're reviewing in a review is bad and evil and GW is entirely in the right"

What?


Not what was said at all, don't misrepresent what I wrote. Re-read it and you'll see the parts about the amount of stuff included being an important factor, that's part of what determines fair dealing. Also you'll notice i didn't say whether GW was actually right or wrong in itself here, but just that it's possible they could be and it's not something so clearly "They're wrong with absolutely no chance they're right" like was claimed.

Here's the quote on fair dealing from the UK Gov site for you:

Fair dealing

Certain exceptions only apply if the use of the work is a ‘fair dealing’. For example, the exceptions relating to research and private study, criticism or review, or news reporting.

‘Fair dealing’ is a legal term used to establish whether a use of copyright material is lawful or whether it infringes copyright. There is no statutory definition of fair dealing - it will always be a matter of fact, degree and impression in each case. The question to be asked is: how would a fair-minded and honest person have dealt with the work?

Factors that have been identified by the courts as relevant in determining whether a particular dealing with a work is fair include:

does using the work affect the market for the original work? If a use of a work acts as a substitute for it, causing the owner to lose revenue, then it is not likely to be fair

is the amount of the work taken reasonable and appropriate? Was it necessary to use the amount that was taken? Usually only part of a work may be used

The relative importance of any one factor will vary according to the case in hand and the type of dealing in question.


A review can still be infringement depending on the specifics of it.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 17:43:57


Post by: catbarf


If you watch that Midwinter video and conclude GW is rightfully quashing unauthorized use beyond what is appropriate for the fair use / fair dealings exceptions, you must have never seen a film critique before in your life.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 18:05:45


Post by: Gregor Samsa


The moral issue which upsets people here is not about denying GWs legal rights to protect its intellectual property using the minutiae of common law systems.

It is rather people's generally accurate perception that threats of litigation are used by larger entities to bully smaller ones in order to maintain a competitive edge in a commercial market.

I have no doubt that Midwinter's video did indeed breach some tedious infraction about the precise amount of IP allowed to be shown without a license blah blah. The technicality, again, is not the issue. The issue is that GW shouldn't have bullied Midwinter. It is bad press for GW generally (midwinter isn't costing them a dime over this) and it is also just a mean spirited thing to do generally.



Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 18:08:14


Post by: caladancid


TheGoodGerman wrote:
caladancid wrote:
TheGoodGerman wrote:
Mario wrote:
TheGoodGerman wrote:In that case he has nothing to fear and his objection will go through.
I think the video was demonetised. Meaning they get no money during that time from that video and by the time his objection goes through and it's reinstated the peak monetisation phase is gone. You don't get that back just because your video is monetised later on (for the little bit of a long tail that a video tends to have on average).

If somebody makes their money from these reviews and a company were to do that every time a somewhat critical review appears then that creates a chilling effect for the reviewer, even if things are technically corrected after a few weeks. That's is one of these "technically correct" statements that are, in practice, ignorant of the circumstances that cause the real damage.

OK, that makes sense, I didn‘t take that into account.

I guess this is one of the risks when a „content creator“ signs up to that giant company YouTube’s terms.


Maybe I am misreading what you wrote, or not interpreting it correctly, and if so I apologize up front.

Probably. Apology accepted.

But, are you still saying that we should hold GW accountable? It looks like, and again maybe I am imputing something to you that isn't true, you are bending over backwards to not have any blame on GW. If that is the case I am interested to know why? YouTube's policies, or any other policies, don't seem to matter if GW's behavior was better.

GW is to blame for its actions and I have called them stupid myself. They're just not this evil superorganization, but just a regular large-ish company that behaves mostly normal (and does dumb stuff occasionally, because people who work also make mistakes). From what I see their cultural problem could be that they are mostly immune against the consequences of their mistakes because their products sell like hot cake whatever they do - so they go from success to success and there is no incentive to question things.

Also I don't see much wrongdoing in the specific cases we're discussing here:

- They have a job advert for a junior role that happens to be in their IP protection team. Big deal. The uproar on this forum about it is out of proportion.

- They went after Midwinter because of this Warhammerplus review video. That is a stupid move and if they had watched the video, they should know there is nothing to win for them really. As „The Phazer" points out (with a citation wrongly attributed to me), it's likely that no human had actually reviewed the video before they "struck". This would be a plausible explanation, because their specialized IP law team likely isn't that stupid.


Midwinter Minis has said it was a 'manual' strike versus the ones done by a computer program.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 18:08:30


Post by: yukishiro1


But it didn't even do that. It breached nothing at all. There are no such precise technicalities when it comes to what is fair use/dealing and what isn't. The standard is what a reasonable person would have done. And I challenge you to find a single reasonable person in the world who viewed that video and thought "this guy is showing more of GW's IP than is reasonable in order to review it."

So they're not only bullying Midwinter for no good reason, they're not even doing it based on something that is even technically correct. It's a true abuse of the system.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 18:11:52


Post by: H.B.M.C.


The Midwinter Minis situation has two possible reasons:

1. It was a bot

Generally speaking, from everything I've seen with YouTube, bots more often that not tag videos as a breach due to the use of music more than anything else.

In Guy's video there is a specific section where he puts in part of the soundtrack to one of the Hammer & Bolter episodes, as he's responding to calls that GW ripped his own music off. He plays his own music, and then part of the music from H&B, acknowledges that they are similar, but then moves on.

If it was a bot, then my guess would be that it got tagged because of that part. I think this is by far the most likely reason.

2. It was a human being

Then that's someone not understanding what a review is, and using YouTube copyright strikes to silence reviews will earn you no friends and an even worse reputation than GW already has with the community right now. This would be very bad.

Unless something's changed in the past few hours, Guy hasn't said which of the above two types it was, so for now I'd say it's safer to assume it was a bot doing what YT bots always do: Claim things for stupid illogical reasons detached of any human interaction or reasoning.



Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 18:14:07


Post by: yukishiro1


If it was a bot, that's also an abuse of the legal process. It shouldn't be possible to report a violation without having an actual human attest that said violation occurred, so someone can at least in theory be held responsible for making a false complaint.

I do think you are right about the music being the likely reason for the strike. Ironically, if it was a bot, it was probably for playing his own music, which the bot then inaccurately thought was GW's music, because he doesn't actually play GW's music for long enough to trigger the normal bot strike criteria. Which would be hilarious, as it would actually perfectly illustrate the point: if even the bot can't tell the difference between the two compositions...


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 18:15:49


Post by: auticus


And they are still continuing to rake in cash hand over fist.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 18:17:45


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


They're also looking for a Social Media Manager, maybe the previous one got fired for the Cursed City kerfuffle? I sure hope so.

https://jobs.games-workshop.com/search-and-apply/social-media-manager


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 18:18:49


Post by: phandaal


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The Midwinter Minis situation has two possible reasons:

1. It was a bot

Generally speaking, from everything I've seen with YouTube, bots more often that not tag videos as a breach due to the use of music more than anything else.

In Guy's video there is a specific section where he puts in part of the soundtrack to one of the Hammer & Bolter episodes, as he's responding to calls that GW ripped his own music off. He plays his own music, and then part of the music from H&B, acknowledges that they are similar, but then moves on.

If it was a bot, then my guess would be that it got tagged because of that part. I think this is by far the most likely reason.



Genuine question - how does a bot do this? Scan for any video mentioning Warhammer+ in the title and then use image recognition on every frame of the video to compare what's in the frame against the full library of Warhammer+ videos? Or is there some other method a bot would use to auto-flag video footage as opposed to something like music?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 18:23:41


Post by: jojo_monkey_boy


 phandaal wrote:

Genuine question - how does a bot do this?


My understanding is that they usually scan for sound. Apparently the YouTuber in question played part of the actual warhammer+ video which contained sound.

Anyone is free to correct me on this...


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 18:24:22


Post by: phandaal


yukishiro1 wrote:
If it was a bot, that's also an abuse of the legal process. It shouldn't be possible to report a violation without having an actual human attest that said violation occurred, so someone can at least in theory be held responsible for making a false complaint.

I do think you are right about the music being the likely reason for the strike. Ironically, if it was a bot, it was probably for playing his own music, which the bot then inaccurately thought was GW's music, because he doesn't actually play GW's music for long enough to trigger the normal bot strike criteria. Which would be hilarious, as it would actually perfectly illustrate the point: if even the bot can't tell the difference between the two compositions...


This actually makes more sense than a bot flagging his Warhammer+ footage. And yeah, it would not be a good look for Games Workshop.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
 phandaal wrote:

Genuine question - how does a bot do this?


My understanding is that they usually scan for sound. Apparently the YouTuber in question played part of the actual warhammer+ video which contained sound.

Anyone is free to correct me on this...


Yeah sound would make more sense. I was thinking it had scanned his video for the footage.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 18:25:30


Post by: Albertorius


 phandaal wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The Midwinter Minis situation has two possible reasons:

1. It was a bot

Generally speaking, from everything I've seen with YouTube, bots more often that not tag videos as a breach due to the use of music more than anything else.

In Guy's video there is a specific section where he puts in part of the soundtrack to one of the Hammer & Bolter episodes, as he's responding to calls that GW ripped his own music off. He plays his own music, and then part of the music from H&B, acknowledges that they are similar, but then moves on.

If it was a bot, then my guess would be that it got tagged because of that part. I think this is by far the most likely reason.



Genuine question - how does a bot do this? Scan for any video mentioning Warhammer+ in the title and then use image recognition on every frame of the video to compare what's in the frame against the full library of Warhammer+ videos? Or is there some other method a bot would use to auto-flag video footage as opposed to something like music?


Usually, this way:

https://www.internetandtechnologylaw.com/copyright-bots/

It usually depends on the datasources you set for the bot, and they can analyze audio, video and (of course) text.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 18:28:49


Post by: H.B.M.C.


yukishiro1 wrote:
If it was a bot, that's also an abuse of the legal process. It shouldn't be possible to report a violation without having an actual human attest that said violation occurred, so someone can at least in theory be held responsible for making a false complaint.
But that's not how YT works unfortunately. They're too busy trying to not be/appear evil as a company, so Google can't handle the literally millions of hours of footage on that site, so bots were created to do the job (poorly). Thus we get bots tagging things like this.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Ironically, if it was a bot, it was probably for playing his own music, which the bot then inaccurately thought was GW's music, because he doesn't actually play GW's music for long enough to trigger the normal bot strike criteria. Which would be hilarious, as it would actually perfectly illustrate the point: if even the bot can't tell the difference between the two compositions...
Getting copyright struck for his own music is actually not outside the realm of possibility.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 18:29:36


Post by: phandaal


 Albertorius wrote:


Usually, this way:

https://www.internetandtechnologylaw.com/copyright-bots/

It usually depends on the datasources you set for the bot, and they can analyze audio, video and (of course) text.


That's interesting from a technological standpoint. They really are able to scan images as well as audio.

Guess the video gets its first flag from the title and then the bot actually scans it.

Edit - seeing now that Midwinter Minis is saying it was not a bot:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/ph22jz/hello_guy_here_it_wasnt_automatically_flagged_by/

But on the plus side, GW seems to have realized their error and gotten rid of the claim.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 18:36:10


Post by: yukishiro1


Haha, "erroneously flagged." Manually. By an individual.

If you believe that, GW has a miniature version of a bridge they would like to sell you...

Does make their defenders look pretty silly here, though, when not even GW will stand by its own IP flagging decisions.



Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 18:48:12


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Well I was wrong. I really thought it would be a bot. Instead it was just a preview for what this "Infringement Assistant" is likely to evolve into in the future.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 19:06:23


Post by: jojo_monkey_boy


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Well I was wrong. I really thought it would be a bot. Instead it was just a preview for what this "Infringement Assistant" is likely to evolve into in the future.


I really wonder if the number of people they manage to herd onto their subscription is worth all of the negative attention they get by doing things like this.

It's almost like they want to refine their consumer / supporter base into only the most ardent, forgiving group possible.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 19:10:10


Post by: caladancid


The next stage in this process is all of the folks who have been claiming it was an auto strike, will now tell us this shows GW isn’t so bad after all since they changed their mind.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 19:37:09


Post by: Flipsiders


I, for one, am glad that Games Workshop is hiring hardworking employees to help them infringe on copyrighted materials more efficiently.

That's what "infringement assistant" means, correct?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 19:40:20


Post by: GoldenHorde


 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Derp derp.

GW thinks anything with wings is going to cause "brand confusion".... give me a break.

The double headed eagle is public domain. The double headed eagle is a historical symbol used by many cultures and empires.

The GW aquila logo/design is a straight up ripoff of the motif. It should not be protected trademark for that reason


I suggest you read up on trademarks, unless this is some disingenuous take, because it sounds like you have quite a strange interpretation of how they work.

A trademark is there to show the source of something. The function of them is to give across a message of "This thing belongs to ___" so that you can tell whos it is or what it belongs to and so they have to be identifiable for a specific company or brand or thing in a way that means you can tell them apart from others. Their Aquila is a uniquely stylized design that is recognizable as identifier for GW and their brand within the contexts its used, it being broadly based on a historical motif doesn't change that.


The issue is nutbag GW goes after designs which are nothing like ttheir ripoff double eagle. Like when they argued the chapterhouse logo caused "confusion".

The imp aquila may be stylised but it is in no damn way unique. One has to be insane and ignorant of history to believe it is "unique". It's derivative asf

"Broadly based" is a total spin. It's not broadly based, it is solely based on the double eagle, all the elements are in the same positions and even angles.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 19:53:38


Post by: Mentlegen324


 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Derp derp.

GW thinks anything with wings is going to cause "brand confusion".... give me a break.

The double headed eagle is public domain. The double headed eagle is a historical symbol used by many cultures and empires.

The GW aquila logo/design is a straight up ripoff of the motif. It should not be protected trademark for that reason


I suggest you read up on trademarks, unless this is some disingenuous take, because it sounds like you have quite a strange interpretation of how they work.

A trademark is there to show the source of something. The function of them is to give across a message of "This thing belongs to ___" so that you can tell whos it is or what it belongs to and so they have to be identifiable for a specific company or brand or thing in a way that means you can tell them apart from others. Their Aquila is a uniquely stylized design that is recognizable as identifier for GW and their brand within the contexts its used, it being broadly based on a historical motif doesn't change that.


The issue is nutbag GW goes after designs which are nothing like ttheir ripoff double eagle. Like when they argued the chapterhouse logo caused "confusion".

The imp aquila may be stylised but it is in no damn way unique. One has to be insane and ignorant of history to believe it is "unique". It's derivative asf

"Broadly based" is a total spin. It's not broadly based, it is solely based on the double eagle, all the elements are in the same positions and even angles.


I said uniquely stylized. As in both terms together. Even though the concept itself isn't unique, their specific stylization of the double eagle is unique and distinct enough to serve as an identifier for GW and their brand, within the contexts applicable to it.

Broadly based meaning despite the idea of it being taken from a historical source, they've done their own thing with it.

The logo for their evil space empire takes inspiration from a motif commonly used by various empires throughout history. That doesn't mean it's a "ripoff", especially when it has thematic purpose.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 19:55:49


Post by: NAVARRO


TheGoodGerman wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
caladancid wrote:
https://jobs.games-workshop.com/search-and-apply/infringements-assistant

"Would you like to assist in protecting Games Workshop?



We are always keen to ensure continuous improvement of our processes, so you will be involved in researching and identifying new ways for Games Workshop to approach infringing and counterfeit product removal and implementing improvements to the infringements process."




Brilliant! New assistant, no legal expertise(probably not 100% aware of what an infringement is), underpaid and instructed to find NEW ways to frag "infringements" if he wants to shine.

Brace yourself guys its going to be fun to watch this.... I would say to reviewers, content creators to simply drop GW but what do I know.

Or maybe you are reading too much into this. The advert says the new person will be part of the legal team. That team will also have lawyers.

The non-lawyer legal assistants I work with are brilliant. Still they wouldn't send out lawyerly stuff without at least a signoff.



"researching and identifying new ways for Games Workshop to approach infringing" even in the hands of brilliant assistants does not bode well for the future of anyone doing content.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 19:59:09


Post by: yukishiro1


 Mentlegen324 wrote:


You trying to claim that there's "no way" that when a 10 minute video includes a mix of random video footage of the app in use including showing copyrighted content such as rules, articles, white dwarf pages, parts of several animations, music and more with quite a lot of it shown just shown because of a general theme of " it's part of warhammer+", that there's no chance at all that it could possibly be determined that it may feature too much of their copyrighted material without enough of a reason for all that (whether all that actually would count or not is besides the point as that could only be fully determined via things going further than this) and that instead GW demonetizing that video must be them knowingly trying to abuse IP law has to be the most absurd take of this whole thing I've seen.


Sooo....this didn't age too well, did it?




Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 19:59:22


Post by: Flipsiders


 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Derp derp.

GW thinks anything with wings is going to cause "brand confusion".... give me a break.

The double headed eagle is public domain. The double headed eagle is a historical symbol used by many cultures and empires.

The GW aquila logo/design is a straight up ripoff of the motif. It should not be protected trademark for that reason


I suggest you read up on trademarks, unless this is some disingenuous take, because it sounds like you have quite a strange interpretation of how they work.

A trademark is there to show the source of something. The function of them is to give across a message of "This thing belongs to ___" so that you can tell whos it is or what it belongs to and so they have to be identifiable for a specific company or brand or thing in a way that means you can tell them apart from others. Their Aquila is a uniquely stylized design that is recognizable as identifier for GW and their brand within the contexts its used, it being broadly based on a historical motif doesn't change that.


The issue is nutbag GW goes after designs which are nothing like ttheir ripoff double eagle. Like when they argued the chapterhouse logo caused "confusion".

The imp aquila may be stylised but it is in no damn way unique. One has to be insane and ignorant of history to believe it is "unique". It's derivative asf

"Broadly based" is a total spin. It's not broadly based, it is solely based on the double eagle, all the elements are in the same positions and even angles.


I said uniquely stylized. As in both terms together. Even though the concept itself isn't unique, their specific stylization of the double eagle is unique and distinct enough to serve as an identifier for GW and their brand, within the contexts applicable to it.

Broadly based meaning despite the idea of it being taken from a historical source, they've done their own thing with it.

The logo for their evil space empire takes inspiration from a motif commonly used by various empires throughout history. That doesn't mean it's a "ripoff", especially when it has thematic purpose.


Hate to say it, but this is true. Think of the Lambda and the circle. Both of those symbols are some of the simplest designs in human history, yet no one is saying that this logo doesn't signify a particular brand:
Spoiler:


EDIT: Image now hopefully works


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:01:58


Post by: LordAriakan


Every time I see the thread title I read it as Infringement Assassins lol


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:03:44


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


LordAriakan wrote:
Every time I see the thread title I read it as Infringement Assassins lol


To be fair, it seems as if GW isn't too far from that


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:08:24


Post by: GoldenHorde


 Flipsiders wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Derp derp.

GW thinks anything with wings is going to cause "brand confusion".... give me a break.

The double headed eagle is public domain. The double headed eagle is a historical symbol used by many cultures and empires.

The GW aquila logo/design is a straight up ripoff of the motif. It should not be protected trademark for that reason


I suggest you read up on trademarks, unless this is some disingenuous take, because it sounds like you have quite a strange interpretation of how they work.

A trademark is there to show the source of something. The function of them is to give across a message of "This thing belongs to ___" so that you can tell whos it is or what it belongs to and so they have to be identifiable for a specific company or brand or thing in a way that means you can tell them apart from others. Their Aquila is a uniquely stylized design that is recognizable as identifier for GW and their brand within the contexts its used, it being broadly based on a historical motif doesn't change that.


The issue is nutbag GW goes after designs which are nothing like ttheir ripoff double eagle. Like when they argued the chapterhouse logo caused "confusion".

The imp aquila may be stylised but it is in no damn way unique. One has to be insane and ignorant of history to believe it is "unique". It's derivative asf

"Broadly based" is a total spin. It's not broadly based, it is solely based on the double eagle, all the elements are in the same positions and even angles.


I said uniquely stylized. As in both terms together. Even though the concept itself isn't unique, their specific stylization of the double eagle is unique and distinct enough to serve as an identifier for GW and their brand, within the contexts applicable to it.

Broadly based meaning despite the idea of it being taken from a historical source, they've done their own thing with it.

The logo for their evil space empire takes inspiration from a motif commonly used by various empires throughout history. That doesn't mean it's a "ripoff", especially when it has thematic purpose.


Hate to say it, but this is true. Think of the Lambda and the circle. Both of those symbols are some of the simplest designs in human history, yet no one is saying that this logo doesn't signify a particular brand:
Spoiler:


EDIT: Image now hopefully works


So what if valve were also lazy and derivative?
Missing the point completely.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:09:32


Post by: Flipsiders


 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Flipsiders wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Derp derp.

GW thinks anything with wings is going to cause "brand confusion".... give me a break.

The double headed eagle is public domain. The double headed eagle is a historical symbol used by many cultures and empires.

The GW aquila logo/design is a straight up ripoff of the motif. It should not be protected trademark for that reason


I suggest you read up on trademarks, unless this is some disingenuous take, because it sounds like you have quite a strange interpretation of how they work.

A trademark is there to show the source of something. The function of them is to give across a message of "This thing belongs to ___" so that you can tell whos it is or what it belongs to and so they have to be identifiable for a specific company or brand or thing in a way that means you can tell them apart from others. Their Aquila is a uniquely stylized design that is recognizable as identifier for GW and their brand within the contexts its used, it being broadly based on a historical motif doesn't change that.


The issue is nutbag GW goes after designs which are nothing like ttheir ripoff double eagle. Like when they argued the chapterhouse logo caused "confusion".

The imp aquila may be stylised but it is in no damn way unique. One has to be insane and ignorant of history to believe it is "unique". It's derivative asf

"Broadly based" is a total spin. It's not broadly based, it is solely based on the double eagle, all the elements are in the same positions and even angles.


I said uniquely stylized. As in both terms together. Even though the concept itself isn't unique, their specific stylization of the double eagle is unique and distinct enough to serve as an identifier for GW and their brand, within the contexts applicable to it.

Broadly based meaning despite the idea of it being taken from a historical source, they've done their own thing with it.

The logo for their evil space empire takes inspiration from a motif commonly used by various empires throughout history. That doesn't mean it's a "ripoff", especially when it has thematic purpose.


Hate to say it, but this is true. Think of the Lambda and the circle. Both of those symbols are some of the simplest designs in human history, yet no one is saying that this logo doesn't signify a particular brand:
Spoiler:


EDIT: Image now hopefully works


So what if valve were also lazy and derivative?
Missing the point completely.


Alright, how about you provide an example of what you would consider a properly copyrightable symbol?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:11:17


Post by: GoldenHorde


Those punks at AWS lambda are stealing valve's derivative trademark zOmG!!>!>!


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:14:24


Post by: Flipsiders


 GoldenHorde wrote:
Those punks at AWS lambda are stealing valve's derivative trademark zOmG!!>!>!


Ignoring the fact that that's a blatant strawman, it's pretty interesting how you identified the owners of the symbol I posted without me ever mentioning them in the thread. It almost seems like that symbol has a distinct shape, style, and color scheme which separates it from other depictions of circles and lambdas in popular culture. Perhaps, since that symbol so clearly signifies a certain brand (which you yourself properly identified), there should be some sort of law which prevents others from associating that symbol with things which the owners of the brand do not endorse? An interesting thought.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:17:05


Post by: No One Important


So what I'm getting here is I can drive job growth by posting silly Warhammer fanfiction online.
Time to do my part to help UK's economic recovery.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:20:07


Post by: GoldenHorde


 Flipsiders wrote:


Alright, how about you provide an example of what you would consider a properly copyrightable symbol?


Easy, since you're on corporate authoritarian vibes today...



Dear Sirs,

my name is Stefan Krilla. I work for Volkswagen AG section Corporate Identity/Design Wolfsburg/Germany. I was surfing through the internet, when I found a tutorial link about making the Volkswagen logo on your site.

The Volkswagen logo is a registered Trademark!!! No one is allowed to replicate it! Any offence against it will result in legal effects.

Therefore you have to delete the link “Make Volkswagen Logo – Learn an easy way to make the logo” from you list. The tutorial is submitted by “Rakker Design” in section “Drawing” (05-02-2006)

I also contacted the author and told him to delete this tutorial.

Thank you for your cooperation in this case.
Best regards.

Stefan Krilla


Corporate nazis looking to ban fan art lolz, seem familiar?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:24:14


Post by: Flipsiders


 GoldenHorde wrote:
Spoiler:
 Flipsiders wrote:


Alright, how about you provide an example of what you would consider a properly copyrightable symbol?


Easy, since you're on corporate authoritarian vibes today...



Dear Sirs,

my name is Stefan Krilla. I work for Volkswagen AG section Corporate Identity/Design Wolfsburg/Germany. I was surfing through the internet, when I found a tutorial link about making the Volkswagen logo on your site.

The Volkswagen logo is a registered Trademark!!! No one is allowed to replicate it! Any offence against it will result in legal effects.

Therefore you have to delete the link “Make Volkswagen Logo – Learn an easy way to make the logo” from you list. The tutorial is submitted by “Rakker Design” in section “Drawing” (05-02-2006)

I also contacted the author and told him to delete this tutorial.

Thank you for your cooperation in this case.
Best regards.

Stefan Krilla


Corporate nazis looking to ban fan art lolz, seem familiar?


I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to say here.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:24:35


Post by: Mario


TheGoodGerman wrote:
Spoiler:
Mario wrote:
TheGoodGerman wrote:In that case he has nothing to fear and his objection will go through.
I think the video was demonetised. Meaning they get no money during that time from that video and by the time his objection goes through and it's reinstated the peak monetisation phase is gone. You don't get that back just because your video is monetised later on (for the little bit of a long tail that a video tends to have on average).

If somebody makes their money from these reviews and a company were to do that every time a somewhat critical review appears then that creates a chilling effect for the reviewer, even if things are technically corrected after a few weeks. That's is one of these "technically correct" statements that are, in practice, ignorant of the circumstances that cause the real damage.

OK, that makes sense, I didn‘t take that into account.

I guess this is one of the risks when a „content creator“ signs up to that giant company YouTube’s terms.
It's one thing to take youtube's algorithms into account but companies who actively hunt down all kinds of "fair use" uses of their work are despised by youtube creators in general. They already have an uphill battle against youtube as the first layers of these systems are all automated so even if youtube were to hit you accidentally, it would take time to even get to a human who can reverse such accidents. And malicious hits from somebody who has an axe to grind with somebody are even worse. When companies actively go after such stuff (not wholesale copyright infringement but criticism they want to silence) then that's simply bad form and usually not an accident.

Nobody just slips on the mouse button a few times and accidentally clicks through the whole process of flagging something. At best some low level worker (like the one GW is looking for that started this thread) was overzealous and it was not company policy and at worst they are actively targeting "bad press" to make it disappear. Of course the creator on the other side doesn't know why it happens and simply has to deal with the fallout of it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/ph22jz/hello_guy_here_it_wasnt_automatically_flagged_by/

It seems that in GW's latest case the explanation is that somebody made a mistake. If, or to what degree, one trusts such a statement, everybody has to decide for themselves. To me it looks like a reaction to bad PR instead of an actual accident. Your mileage may vary.

frankelee wrote:If you're gonna take down GW for being too reporty about Youtube videos, take down Sony and Disney while you're at it. They used to go nuts with copyright claiming reviewers.
People do complain about those (and many others) all the time. That usually doesn't happen on a wargaming forum as those companies don't have a big presence in wargaming, unlike GW. Thus we talk about GW issues here, and not the others.

beast_gts wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
GW knows it can make the objection in bad faith and still achieve its objective even if it is ultimately overturned. It's the definition of abuse of the legal process.
If this is the case - report them to the relevant authorities. In the UK that's the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA), as acting without honesty or integrity violates their principles.
That shouldn't work in this case. The system is a youtube one, and it's made to work with/around DMCA issues in the USA and the fact that youtube ingests hours of content every minute and can't be manually moderated. The system, as it is, is one of private agreements (between you when you click on the EULA and them), and a defensive one to protect youtube first. It favours those who do these takedown notices and there are little/no negative consequences for that within the youtube framework (as they need to do at least as well as the DMCA demands or be liable for stuff they leave on their servers). It has nothing to do with laws or lawyers. Those are a few layers away from what's happening on youtube when somebody clicks around on youtube to say "they are infringing on my stuff in their video".

Tom Scott has a video about that and copyright in general. The youtube specific stuff starts at about half of the video (chapter 3, at 22:23) but the whole video is worth watching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jwo5qc78QU

phandaal wrote:Genuine question - how does a bot do this? Scan for any video mentioning Warhammer+ in the title and then use image recognition on every frame of the video to compare what's in the frame against the full library of Warhammer+ videos? Or is there some other method a bot would use to auto-flag video footage as opposed to something like music?
The most effective bots seems to be based on audio fingerprinting because music labels were some of the earliest who complained about this stuff. Fingerprint (computing)

There are similar systems for other stuff (text, video), and probably some "fancy" AI systems that try to do even more. I think some of those bots that youtube uses start looking into this stuff when a creator uploads a video and not randomly. I've heard from creators who had to re-edit their videos multiple times because the system caught something the moment they uploaded the video (before it even got published for the world to see). And even that can be a bit nebulous with the creator not knowing what exactly the bots were complaining about and them having to try many different versions until youtube accepts the video.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:28:06


Post by: TheGoodGerman


 NAVARRO wrote:
TheGoodGerman wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
caladancid wrote:
https://jobs.games-workshop.com/search-and-apply/infringements-assistant

"Would you like to assist in protecting Games Workshop?



We are always keen to ensure continuous improvement of our processes, so you will be involved in researching and identifying new ways for Games Workshop to approach infringing and counterfeit product removal and implementing improvements to the infringements process."




Brilliant! New assistant, no legal expertise(probably not 100% aware of what an infringement is), underpaid and instructed to find NEW ways to frag "infringements" if he wants to shine.

Brace yourself guys its going to be fun to watch this.... I would say to reviewers, content creators to simply drop GW but what do I know.

Or maybe you are reading too much into this. The advert says the new person will be part of the legal team. That team will also have lawyers.

The non-lawyer legal assistants I work with are brilliant. Still they wouldn't send out lawyerly stuff without at least a signoff.



"researching and identifying new ways for Games Workshop to approach infringing" even in the hands of brilliant assistants does not bode well for the future of anyone doing content.

If you take off your negativity glasses, it could also be a good thing. Such as, giving better guidance about where they draw the line for example so everybody knows how to continue.

Now they've withdrawn their claim against Midwinter, I can see 3 possible reasons:

1. It was an error. This is the reason given. If true, it's a good sign because they never really intended to go after this video.

2. It was not an error, but they have seen the light. Meaning, they realized that this action would generate more negatives than positives. Would be a good sign also, maybe they've learned something.

3. It was not an error and they would like to continue, but backed down after the objection because they know they would lose. Intimidation attempt by bad-faith application of this tool failed. Would be a bad sign, but I think the least likely alternative.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:30:54


Post by: GoldenHorde


 Flipsiders wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Spoiler:
 Flipsiders wrote:


Alright, how about you provide an example of what you would consider a properly copyrightable symbol?


Easy, since you're on corporate authoritarian vibes today...



Dear Sirs,

my name is Stefan Krilla. I work for Volkswagen AG section Corporate Identity/Design Wolfsburg/Germany. I was surfing through the internet, when I found a tutorial link about making the Volkswagen logo on your site.

The Volkswagen logo is a registered Trademark!!! No one is allowed to replicate it! Any offence against it will result in legal effects.

Therefore you have to delete the link “Make Volkswagen Logo – Learn an easy way to make the logo” from you list. The tutorial is submitted by “Rakker Design” in section “Drawing” (05-02-2006)

I also contacted the author and told him to delete this tutorial.

Thank you for your cooperation in this case.
Best regards.

Stefan Krilla


Corporate nazis looking to ban fan art lolz, seem familiar?


I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to say here.


I gave you an example of a registered trademark as per your request that is not derivative as the imperial aquila is.

The original had the circle in a cogwheel and was "broadly based" on a swastika



Now you know what broadly based looks like.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:31:52


Post by: TheGoodGerman


No One Important wrote:
So what I'm getting here is I can drive job growth by posting silly Warhammer fanfiction online.
Time to do my part to help UK's economic recovery.

That's the spirit!


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:35:14


Post by: GoldenHorde


TheGoodGerman wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
TheGoodGerman wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
caladancid wrote:
https://jobs.games-workshop.com/search-and-apply/infringements-assistant

"Would you like to assist in protecting Games Workshop?



We are always keen to ensure continuous improvement of our processes, so you will be involved in researching and identifying new ways for Games Workshop to approach infringing and counterfeit product removal and implementing improvements to the infringements process."




Brilliant! New assistant, no legal expertise(probably not 100% aware of what an infringement is), underpaid and instructed to find NEW ways to frag "infringements" if he wants to shine.

Brace yourself guys its going to be fun to watch this.... I would say to reviewers, content creators to simply drop GW but what do I know.

Or maybe you are reading too much into this. The advert says the new person will be part of the legal team. That team will also have lawyers.

The non-lawyer legal assistants I work with are brilliant. Still they wouldn't send out lawyerly stuff without at least a signoff.



"researching and identifying new ways for Games Workshop to approach infringing" even in the hands of brilliant assistants does not bode well for the future of anyone doing content.

If you take off your negativity glasses, it could also be a good thing. Such as, giving better guidance about where they draw the line for example so everybody knows how to continue.

Now they've withdrawn their claim against Midwinter, I can see 3 possible reasons:

1. It was an error. This is the reason given. If true, it's a good sign because they never really intended to go after this video.

2. It was not an error, but they have seen the light. Meaning, they realized that this action would generate more negatives than positives. Would be a good sign also, maybe they've learned something.

3. It was not an error and they would like to continue, but backed down after the objection because they know they would lose. Intimidation attempt by bad-faith application of this tool failed. Would be a bad sign, but I think the least likely alternative.


So tell me, what positive came out of the corporate harassment?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:38:43


Post by: yukishiro1


What does being "an error" even mean, though? I mean obviously it was an error, because by definition if they're revoking it, it was an error.

If you mean it was an error as in they never intended to strike the video in the first place, that's just not plausible. You don't just accidentally issue a manual copyright strike. It doesn't work that way. If somehow GW did "accidentally" issue a copyright strike, that's hugely concerning because it shows the company is even more of a basket case than any of us thought.

The real possibilities are:

1. They thought it infringed for reasons inexplicable to anyone who knows anything about IP, but changed their mind. This isn't particularly reassuring, because it's not like the video changed. This means they're issuing copyright strikes before actually looking into them carefully enough to decide whether they're valid, based on a completely misunderstanding of what actual IP laws are. This possibility would indicate GW doesn't understand what the IP laws are in very basic ways.

2. They knew there was no basis, but decided to do it anyway, only to back off when it blew up in their faces.

GW comes out of this looking terrible no matter what. Either they are wildly operationally incompetent (accidentally issuing a manual copyright strike), wildly substantively incompetent (issuing the strike because they thought it infringed when it obviously did not), or malicious (issuing the strike knowing full well it was bogus).



Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:39:29


Post by: GoldenHorde


 Flipsiders wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Those punks at AWS lambda are stealing valve's derivative trademark zOmG!!>!>!

there should be some sort of law which prevents others from associating that symbol with things which the owners of the brand do not endorse? An interesting thought.


Quick, someone tell the Greeks that their alphabet is infringing on 'mericun trademark.
Tell them everytime they type or draw that letter they need explicit corporate permission for the 'fanart'


I'm going to draw the double headed eagle, oh noes can't do that despite the historicity of the motif.

Ofc law is perfect and has no flaws or inherent problems, you got me with that GOTCHA, right




Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:39:49


Post by: caladancid


caladancid wrote:
The next stage in this process is all of the folks who have been claiming it was an auto strike, will now tell us this shows GW isn’t so bad after all since they changed their mind.


TheGoodGerman wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
TheGoodGerman wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
caladancid wrote:
https://jobs.games-workshop.com/search-and-apply/infringements-assistant

"Would you like to assist in protecting Games Workshop?



We are always keen to ensure continuous improvement of our processes, so you will be involved in researching and identifying new ways for Games Workshop to approach infringing and counterfeit product removal and implementing improvements to the infringements process."




Brilliant! New assistant, no legal expertise(probably not 100% aware of what an infringement is), underpaid and instructed to find NEW ways to frag "infringements" if he wants to shine.

Brace yourself guys its going to be fun to watch this.... I would say to reviewers, content creators to simply drop GW but what do I know.

Or maybe you are reading too much into this. The advert says the new person will be part of the legal team. That team will also have lawyers.

The non-lawyer legal assistants I work with are brilliant. Still they wouldn't send out lawyerly stuff without at least a signoff.



"researching and identifying new ways for Games Workshop to approach infringing" even in the hands of brilliant assistants does not bode well for the future of anyone doing content.

If you take off your negativity glasses, it could also be a good thing. Such as, giving better guidance about where they draw the line for example so everybody knows how to continue.

Now they've withdrawn their claim against Midwinter, I can see 3 possible reasons:

1. It was an error. This is the reason given. If true, it's a good sign because they never really intended to go after this video.

2. It was not an error, but they have seen the light. Meaning, they realized that this action would generate more negatives than positives. Would be a good sign also, maybe they've learned something.

3. It was not an error and they would like to continue, but backed down after the objection because they know they would lose. Intimidation attempt by bad-faith application of this tool failed. Would be a bad sign, but I think the least likely alternative.


Lol. I hope you did this on purpose.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:41:25


Post by: A Town Called Malus


yukishiro1 wrote:
This possibility would indicate GW doesn't understand what the IP laws are in very basic ways.



We already know this was true in the past. Their head of IP didn't know the difference between copyright and trademark.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:42:04


Post by: Flipsiders


 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Flipsiders wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Spoiler:
 Flipsiders wrote:


Alright, how about you provide an example of what you would consider a properly copyrightable symbol?


Easy, since you're on corporate authoritarian vibes today...



Dear Sirs,

my name is Stefan Krilla. I work for Volkswagen AG section Corporate Identity/Design Wolfsburg/Germany. I was surfing through the internet, when I found a tutorial link about making the Volkswagen logo on your site.

The Volkswagen logo is a registered Trademark!!! No one is allowed to replicate it! Any offence against it will result in legal effects.

Therefore you have to delete the link “Make Volkswagen Logo – Learn an easy way to make the logo” from you list. The tutorial is submitted by “Rakker Design” in section “Drawing” (05-02-2006)

I also contacted the author and told him to delete this tutorial.

Thank you for your cooperation in this case.
Best regards.

Stefan Krilla


Corporate nazis looking to ban fan art lolz, seem familiar?


I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to say here.


I gave you an example of a registered trademark as per your request that is not derivative as the imperial aquila is.

The original had the circle in a cogwheel and was "broadly based" on swastika



Now you know what broadly based looks like


Frankly, I think stacking the letters "V" and "W" inside a circle is just as derivative as the other logos you've discussed. Yes, you can recognize that specific logo as Volkswagen's, but that's exactly my point. Trademarks are simple, easy-to-recognize shapes which are almost universally either extremely simple to replicate or draw upon some recognizable symbol in human history. Unlike copyright, originality is not a defining characteristic of a trademark. Distinctiveness is.

The GW Aquila in particular is different from other Aquilas in that it's extremely sharp, minimal, and angular, especially around the wings. If you gave me a selection of aquila images and asked me which one was from Warhammer, I would be able to identify it ten times out of ten. Trademarks gain legal protection based on their distinctiveness, and the Imperial Aquila does that, regardless of whether it's derivative.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I should mention there's a significant political difference between copyright and trademark. Copyright is often used to increase the power of corporations, as it can under many circumstances remove competition and cultivate brand identity. Trademark almost universally benefits the consumer, as it prevents the spread of misleading or counterfeit goods. Copyright laws are bad right now, but trademark laws are great. Again, a difference.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:47:40


Post by: NAVARRO


 GoldenHorde wrote:
TheGoodGerman wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
TheGoodGerman wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
caladancid wrote:
https://jobs.games-workshop.com/search-and-apply/infringements-assistant

"Would you like to assist in protecting Games Workshop?



We are always keen to ensure continuous improvement of our processes, so you will be involved in researching and identifying new ways for Games Workshop to approach infringing and counterfeit product removal and implementing improvements to the infringements process."




Brilliant! New assistant, no legal expertise(probably not 100% aware of what an infringement is), underpaid and instructed to find NEW ways to frag "infringements" if he wants to shine.

Brace yourself guys its going to be fun to watch this.... I would say to reviewers, content creators to simply drop GW but what do I know.

Or maybe you are reading too much into this. The advert says the new person will be part of the legal team. That team will also have lawyers.

The non-lawyer legal assistants I work with are brilliant. Still they wouldn't send out lawyerly stuff without at least a signoff.



"researching and identifying new ways for Games Workshop to approach infringing" even in the hands of brilliant assistants does not bode well for the future of anyone doing content.

If you take off your negativity glasses, it could also be a good thing. Such as, giving better guidance about where they draw the line for example so everybody knows how to continue.

Now they've withdrawn their claim against Midwinter, I can see 3 possible reasons:

1. It was an error. This is the reason given. If true, it's a good sign because they never really intended to go after this video.

2. It was not an error, but they have seen the light. Meaning, they realized that this action would generate more negatives than positives. Would be a good sign also, maybe they've learned something.

3. It was not an error and they would like to continue, but backed down after the objection because they know they would lose. Intimidation attempt by bad-faith application of this tool failed. Would be a bad sign, but I think the least likely alternative.


So tell me, what positive came out of the corporate harassment?


And to add to that tell me what good came out of the "old GW" some years ago when they started all the witch hunt and harassing companies, stores with pictures, forums, suing etc I dont need any glasses sir I have seen it all before from GW with my own eyes. Not a pretty spectacle.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:48:15


Post by: GoldenHorde


 Flipsiders wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Flipsiders wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Spoiler:
 Flipsiders wrote:


Alright, how about you provide an example of what you would consider a properly copyrightable symbol?


Easy, since you're on corporate authoritarian vibes today...



Dear Sirs,

my name is Stefan Krilla. I work for Volkswagen AG section Corporate Identity/Design Wolfsburg/Germany. I was surfing through the internet, when I found a tutorial link about making the Volkswagen logo on your site.

The Volkswagen logo is a registered Trademark!!! No one is allowed to replicate it! Any offence against it will result in legal effects.

Therefore you have to delete the link “Make Volkswagen Logo – Learn an easy way to make the logo” from you list. The tutorial is submitted by “Rakker Design” in section “Drawing” (05-02-2006)

I also contacted the author and told him to delete this tutorial.

Thank you for your cooperation in this case.
Best regards.

Stefan Krilla


Corporate nazis looking to ban fan art lolz, seem familiar?


I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to say here.


I gave you an example of a registered trademark as per your request that is not derivative as the imperial aquila is.

The original had the circle in a cogwheel and was "broadly based" on swastika



Now you know what broadly based looks like


Frankly, I think stacking the letters "V" and "W" inside a circle is just as derivative as the other logos you've discussed. Yes, you can recognize that specific logo as Volkswagen's, but that's exactly my point. Trademarks are simple, easy-to-recognize shapes which are almost universally either extremely simple to replicate or draw upon some recognizable symbol in human history. Unlike copyright, originality is not a defining characteristic of a trademark. Distinctiveness is.

The GW Aquila in particular is different from other Aquilas in that it's extremely sharp, minimal, and angular, especially around the wings. If you gave me a selection of aquila images and asked me which one was from Warhammer, I would be able to identify it ten times out of ten. Trademarks gain legal protection based on their distinctiveness, and the Imperial Aquila does that, regardless of whether it's derivative.


Find me ONE, just ONE stacked VW in a circle prior to volkswagen existing.

Conversely how much time do you have to go through examples of double headed eagles.

Some corporate prick has no right to tell you that you're not allowed to draw a sharp lined double eagle.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:48:53


Post by: Mentlegen324


 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Flipsiders wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Those punks at AWS lambda are stealing valve's derivative trademark zOmG!!>!>!

there should be some sort of law which prevents others from associating that symbol with things which the owners of the brand do not endorse? An interesting thought.


Quick, someone tell the Greeks that their alphabet is infringing on 'mericun trademark.
Tell them everytime they type or draw that letter they need explicit corporate permission for the 'fanart'


I'm going to draw the double headed eagle, oh noes can't do that despite the historicity of the motif.

Ofc law is perfect and has no flaws or inherent problems, you got me with that GOTCHA, right




Completely missing that trademark protection applies within specific contexts or towards types of products and services rather than giving the trademark holder ownership of the very idea used for their trademark in all contexts like you absurdly claim.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:53:23


Post by: GoldenHorde


 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Flipsiders wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Those punks at AWS lambda are stealing valve's derivative trademark zOmG!!>!>!

there should be some sort of law which prevents others from associating that symbol with things which the owners of the brand do not endorse? An interesting thought.


Quick, someone tell the Greeks that their alphabet is infringing on 'mericun trademark.
Tell them everytime they type or draw that letter they need explicit corporate permission for the 'fanart'


I'm going to draw the double headed eagle, oh noes can't do that despite the historicity of the motif.

Ofc law is perfect and has no flaws or inherent problems, you got me with that GOTCHA, right




Completely missing that trademark protection applies within specific contexts or towards types of products and services rather than giving the trademark holder ownership of the very idea used for their trademark in all contexts like you absurdly claim.


Trademark protection applies when there is a court ruling on the specific context where it is tested. The holder doesn't decide if it applies or not, and neither do you.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:53:27


Post by: yukishiro1


 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Completely missing that trademark protection applies within specific contexts or towards types of products and services rather than giving the trademark holder ownership of the very idea used for their trademark in all contexts like you absurdly claim.


According to you, it was also "absurd" of me to claim that there was no plausible basis for the copyright strike GW issued that it now admits had no plausible basis.

It might be better to consider a little bit more carefully before you characterize peoples' posts as absurd. Even when it doesn't blow up in your face like it did there, it tends to escalate arguments for no real reason.

We ought to be able to discuss what one another writes without such hyperbolic adjective use and straw manning.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:55:25


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


Chapterhouse logo wasn't even a double-headed eagle. It wasn't even an Aquillia.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 20:58:08


Post by: yukishiro1


Yeah, there was no danger of actual confusion. Was it clearly riffing off GW's logo in an amusing way? Absolutely. It's not like they independently came up with the idea to use an eagle logo with wings. But it was not intended to confuse people into thinking Chapterhouse was GW.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 21:03:21


Post by: A Town Called Malus


 Flipsiders wrote:

I should mention there's a significant political difference between copyright and trademark. Copyright is often used to increase the power of corporations, as it can under many circumstances remove competition and cultivate brand identity. Trademark almost universally benefits the consumer, as it prevents the spread of misleading or counterfeit goods. Copyright laws are bad right now, but trademark laws are great. Again, a difference.


Yeah, no. Trademark law is also in a bad state. Companies like King are able to get ridiculously broad trademarks, such as them trademarking the words "Candy" and "Saga" when used in connection to video games.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 21:06:41


Post by: yukishiro1


I think he's right that the concept of trademarks are less problematic from a consumer point of view than the concept of copyright. The actual implementation, however, tends to favor those with deep pockets, as almost everything in life does.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 21:07:02


Post by: Mentlegen324


 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Flipsiders wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Those punks at AWS lambda are stealing valve's derivative trademark zOmG!!>!>!

there should be some sort of law which prevents others from associating that symbol with things which the owners of the brand do not endorse? An interesting thought.


Quick, someone tell the Greeks that their alphabet is infringing on 'mericun trademark.
Tell them everytime they type or draw that letter they need explicit corporate permission for the 'fanart'


I'm going to draw the double headed eagle, oh noes can't do that despite the historicity of the motif.

Ofc law is perfect and has no flaws or inherent problems, you got me with that GOTCHA, right




Completely missing that trademark protection applies within specific contexts or towards types of products and services rather than giving the trademark holder ownership of the very idea used for their trademark in all contexts like you absurdly claim.


Trademark protection applies when there is a court ruling on the specific context where it is tested. The holder doesn't decide if it applies or not, and neither do you.



You claimed you can't draw something like letters of the greek alphabet or the Imperial Eagle because they're trademarked. Your specific wording was "everytime" and that "everytime" someone made use of those ideas they would need permission. You showed a wildly incorrect view of how trademarks work, were told how that was wrong, and now you've moved the goalposts.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 21:10:23


Post by: GoldenHorde


 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Flipsiders wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Those punks at AWS lambda are stealing valve's derivative trademark zOmG!!>!>!

there should be some sort of law which prevents others from associating that symbol with things which the owners of the brand do not endorse? An interesting thought.


Quick, someone tell the Greeks that their alphabet is infringing on 'mericun trademark.
Tell them everytime they type or draw that letter they need explicit corporate permission for the 'fanart'


I'm going to draw the double headed eagle, oh noes can't do that despite the historicity of the motif.

Ofc law is perfect and has no flaws or inherent problems, you got me with that GOTCHA, right




Completely missing that trademark protection applies within specific contexts or towards types of products and services rather than giving the trademark holder ownership of the very idea used for their trademark in all contexts like you absurdly claim.


Trademark protection applies when there is a court ruling on the specific context where it is tested. The holder doesn't decide if it applies or not, and neither do you.



You claimed you can't draw something like letters of the greek alphabet or the Imperial Eagle because they're trademarked. Your specific wording was "everytime" and that "everytime" someone made use of those ideas they would need permission. You showed a wildly incorrect view of how trademarks work, were told how that was wrong, and now you've moved the goalposts.


You show a wildly incorrect view of how flippant and sarcastic comments work,

I didn't move any goalpost. GW doesn't own double headed eagles. Not in a million years. They might own their low poly scrapbook version .


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also; adding points to a discussion =/= moving goalposts.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 21:19:35


Post by: Daedalus81


caladancid wrote:
Where are all my "Games Workshop is just making these rules to have them, they won't actively go after people" bros at?


Hmm? I think people were talking about battle reports. Not 3d prints. This is expected even if it is the least tactful thing they could do about it.

Also, it looks like they're hiring an ( singular ) assistant - not an army and I'd imagine this has been a thing for GW for quite some time.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Frankly this is just more of the most recent trend of GW further targetting community goodwill for no other reason then to look good to investors.


I don't think I understand how recasters promote community good will nor do I think investors give a single gak about how GW handles it's IP as long as the dividend remains up.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 21:39:41


Post by: yukishiro1


Actually, recasters definitely promote community goodwill at the moment, when it's impossible to get many highly desired models from GW legitimately. Recasters are working around the clock right now to supply all the Vulkite Contemptors that GW can't get its act together to produce enough of to satisfy demand. Without the recasters, there would be a ton of angry competitive players who are unable to get the models they feel they need.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 21:46:32


Post by: Daedalus81


yukishiro1 wrote:
Actually, recasters definitely promote community goodwill at the moment, when it's impossible to get many highly desired models from GW legitimately. Recasters are working around the clock right now to supply all the Vulkite Contemptors that GW can't get its act together to produce enough of to satisfy demand. Without the recasters, there would be a ton of angry competitive players who are unable to get the models they feel they need.


So they'll stop when the production issues are cleared?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 21:48:27


Post by: CMLR


How much do they pay for? Do I get WH+ for free?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 21:55:40


Post by: Racerguy180


 Daedalus81 wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
Actually, recasters definitely promote community goodwill at the moment, when it's impossible to get many highly desired models from GW legitimately. Recasters are working around the clock right now to supply all the Vulkite Contemptors that GW can't get its act together to produce enough of to satisfy demand. Without the recasters, there would be a ton of angry competitive players who are unable to get the models they feel they need.


So they'll stop when the production issues are cleared?

Cough, cough...ummm....my guess is no.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 22:01:32


Post by: phandaal


yukishiro1 wrote:
Haha, "erroneously flagged." Manually. By an individual.

If you believe that, GW has a miniature version of a bridge they would like to sell you...

Does make their defenders look pretty silly here, though, when not even GW will stand by its own IP flagging decisions.



Hmm, but I have it on very good authority that anyone who even suggests that Games Workshop might be ramping up their copyright claims is a hateful, vitriolic, fear mongering hater who lies about Games Workshop out of spite.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 22:03:18


Post by: Dudeface


 CMLR wrote:
How much do they pay for? Do I get WH+ for free?


I'd guess about £21k, you probably do get free warhammer+ but you also would need to be based in Nottingham.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 22:03:23


Post by: Goose LeChance


You get one month free for every scalp you collect


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 22:13:04


Post by: Flipsiders


 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Flipsiders wrote:

I should mention there's a significant political difference between copyright and trademark. Copyright is often used to increase the power of corporations, as it can under many circumstances remove competition and cultivate brand identity. Trademark almost universally benefits the consumer, as it prevents the spread of misleading or counterfeit goods. Copyright laws are bad right now, but trademark laws are great. Again, a difference.


Yeah, no. Trademark law is also in a bad state. Companies like King are able to get ridiculously broad trademarks, such as them trademarking the words "Candy" and "Saga" when used in connection to video games.


I'm going to be frank: I completely forgot that that happened until you mentioned it. Trademark is still far better than copyright, but in that regard, but you are entirely correct.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 GoldenHorde wrote:

I didn't move any goalpost. GW doesn't own double headed eagles. Not in a million years. They might own their low poly scrapbook version .


What? Yes. That's true. You're arguing against that statement when you say that things like the Warhammer and Half-Life logos aren't or shouldn't be enforceable trademarks, or that you would get sued for drawing a lambda or an eagle.. Those companies don't own the actual symbols, but they do own their (as you put it) "scrapbook versions." I don't see the issue here.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 22:32:41


Post by: Azreal13


The issue is that GW have, even when they've actually legally owned something, historically overstepped their boundaries by some margin. They may have a very narrow ownership of a specific double-headed eagle in a specific set of circumstances, but that hasn't stopped them pursuing people utilising entirely more generic versions.

Which is the nub of the problem, not that GW is entitled to righteously and vigorously pursue the defence of their IP wherever they see fit, but that they can't be trusted to stay in their lane and only pursue that which they can legitimately claim.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 22:40:33


Post by: GoldenHorde


 Flipsiders wrote:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Flipsiders wrote:

I should mention there's a significant political difference between copyright and trademark. Copyright is often used to increase the power of corporations, as it can under many circumstances remove competition and cultivate brand identity. Trademark almost universally benefits the consumer, as it prevents the spread of misleading or counterfeit goods. Copyright laws are bad right now, but trademark laws are great. Again, a difference.


Yeah, no. Trademark law is also in a bad state. Companies like King are able to get ridiculously broad trademarks, such as them trademarking the words "Candy" and "Saga" when used in connection to video games.


I'm going to be frank: I completely forgot that that happened until you mentioned it. Trademark is still far better than copyright, but in that regard, but you are entirely correct.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 GoldenHorde wrote:

I didn't move any goalpost. GW doesn't own double headed eagles. Not in a million years. They might own their low poly scrapbook version .


What? Yes. That's true. You're arguing against that statement when you say that things like the Warhammer and Half-Life logos aren't or shouldn't be enforceable trademarks, or that you would get sued for drawing a lambda or an eagle.. Those companies don't own the actual symbols, but they do own their (as you put it) "scrapbook versions." I don't see the issue here.


The issue is corporate harassment based on their arbitrary interpretations of their legal entitlements.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 22:52:30


Post by: phandaal


 NAVARRO wrote:

And to add to that tell me what good came out of the "old GW" some years ago when they started all the witch hunt and harassing companies, stores with pictures, forums, suing etc I dont need any glasses sir I have seen it all before from GW with my own eyes. Not a pretty spectacle.


The consequences for GW are lost on some people. All they see is their favorite company being attacked, so they jump to the defense without realizing that people are calling out behavior that will be destructive for Games Workshop itself in the long run.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 23:00:51


Post by: Mentlegen324



 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Flipsiders wrote:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
Those punks at AWS lambda are stealing valve's derivative trademark zOmG!!>!>!

there should be some sort of law which prevents others from associating that symbol with things which the owners of the brand do not endorse? An interesting thought.


I didn't move any goalpost. GW doesn't own double headed eagles. Not in a million years. They might own their low poly scrapbook version .





You're the one who's claiming they claim to own the entire concept of a double-headed eagle in its entirety and that no one else can do anything even remotely similar regardless of the context of it, or no one can use the Lambda because of Half-life - which is absolutely not the case. You don't seem to understand that having their own specific stylized version of those elements that functions as an identifier for their own brand, services, products etc within the relevant contexts is how trademarks work and the entire purpose of them is to show the source of something and who/what it's from....

That the Lambda and Aquila are based on common things is quite irrelevant because they've been made distinct enough by being used and stylized in such a way that you can look at them and easily go "That's the Warhammer 40k logo" or "That's Half-Life's lambda".


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 23:03:38


Post by: yukishiro1


 Daedalus81 wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
Actually, recasters definitely promote community goodwill at the moment, when it's impossible to get many highly desired models from GW legitimately. Recasters are working around the clock right now to supply all the Vulkite Contemptors that GW can't get its act together to produce enough of to satisfy demand. Without the recasters, there would be a ton of angry competitive players who are unable to get the models they feel they need.


So they'll stop when the production issues are cleared?


Of course not. I'm not saying they're good actors. Just that it's verifiably true that at the moment the availability of recasters is promoting community goodwill because GW can't make the product available itself.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/03 23:14:48


Post by: NinthMusketeer


After reading the variety of informed and qualified opinions available here, I feel convinced that the sky is, in fact, still falling. Again.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 01:36:04


Post by: Grot 6


This was not appropriate the first time, it is still not, do not advocate violence here - ingtær.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 02:41:19


Post by: phandaal


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
After reading the variety of informed and qualified opinions available here, I feel convinced that the sky is, in fact, still falling. Again.


Indeed. There is so much useful information here that you were able to make a post with zero value, safe in the knowledge that everything important has already been said.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 03:07:18


Post by: GoldenHorde


 Mentlegen324 wrote:




You're the one who's claiming they claim to own the entire concept of a double-headed eagle in its entirety and that no one else can do anything even remotely similar regardless of the context of it, or no one can use the Lambda because of Half-life - which is absolutely not the case. You don't seem to understand that having their own specific stylized version of those elements that functions as an identifier for their own brand, services, products etc within the relevant contexts is how trademarks work and the entire purpose of them is to show the source of something and who/what it's from....
.


Stop being disingenuous and get real for a second. GW goes even further.

You don't seem to understand GW thinks it is entitled to a bubble around the imp eagle. Refer to GW vs Chapterhouse Studios where they cried for protection from this;

Imagine how ape they'd go over the cultural motif of a double headed eagle ....

Cut the crap. GW takes issue with double headed eagle motif on minis.



Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 03:13:24


Post by: NinthMusketeer


 phandaal wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
After reading the variety of informed and qualified opinions available here, I feel convinced that the sky is, in fact, still falling. Again.


Indeed. There is so much useful information here that you were able to make a post with zero value, safe in the knowledge that everything important has already been said.
I felt that making a post with more value than those before me would be unwarranted effort. I can see you feel the same.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 03:14:54


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Daedalus81 wrote:
So they'll stop when the production issues are cleared?
The recasters? Of course not. But it's been my experience that people tend to buy the genuine article when given the choice.

Right now GW isn't giving them that choice.

 Azreal13 wrote:
The issue is that GW have, even when they've actually legally owned something, historically overstepped their boundaries by some margin. They may have a very narrow ownership of a specific double-headed eagle in a specific set of circumstances, but that hasn't stopped them pursuing people utilising entirely more generic versions.

Which is the nub of the problem, not that GW is entitled to righteously and vigorously pursue the defence of their IP wherever they see fit, but that they can't be trusted to stay in their lane and only pursue that which they can legitimately claim.
Well said. Now can you please convince Mentlegen324 of this?



Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 03:45:53


Post by: NinthMusketeer


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
So they'll stop when the production issues are cleared?
The recasters? Of course not. But it's been my experience that people tend to buy the genuine article when given the choice.

Right now GW isn't giving them that choice.
But HBMC you know how important those box sets are! What is GW supposed to do, release Crowe and the Infernal Master as individual models?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 04:01:46


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
But HBMC you know how important those box sets are! What is GW supposed to do, release Crowe and the Infernal Master as individual models?
Had to double check to see if you were joking but, wow, those models still aren't out yet. I... I just can't fathom how GW works. Or doesn't work.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 06:04:39


Post by: NinthMusketeer


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
But HBMC you know how important those box sets are! What is GW supposed to do, release Crowe and the Infernal Master as individual models?
Had to double check to see if you were joking but, wow, those models still aren't out yet. I... I just can't fathom how GW works. Or doesn't work.
Ah, but tis a simple ABC process sir!
A - GW creates designs for great miniatures!
C - People enjoy models which look like those miniatures!


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 06:58:53


Post by: Not Online!!!


 Daedalus81 wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Frankly this is just more of the most recent trend of GW further targetting community goodwill for no other reason then to look good to investors.


I don't think I understand how recasters promote community good will nor do I think investors give a single gak about how GW handles it's IP as long as the dividend remains up.


Well, they said they check 3D printing and it is of no concern in their investor statement.

If they can make it look like they can bludgeon 3d printing that is a clear sign to the investors.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 08:29:41


Post by: Grimtuff


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
So they'll stop when the production issues are cleared?
The recasters? Of course not. But it's been my experience that people tend to buy the genuine article when given the choice.

Right now GW isn't giving them that choice.

 Azreal13 wrote:
The issue is that GW have, even when they've actually legally owned something, historically overstepped their boundaries by some margin. They may have a very narrow ownership of a specific double-headed eagle in a specific set of circumstances, but that hasn't stopped them pursuing people utilising entirely more generic versions.

Which is the nub of the problem, not that GW is entitled to righteously and vigorously pursue the defence of their IP wherever they see fit, but that they can't be trusted to stay in their lane and only pursue that which they can legitimately claim.
Well said. Now can you please convince Mentlegen324 of this?



Won't happen. He'll keep spouting comments that will age like a fine milk...


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 10:55:39


Post by: endlesswaltz123


Whilst I know this is a bit more of a chat about re-casting as opposed to content creation issues (youtube videos), it's worth nothing that the midwinter minis issue is resolved as GW have said the copyright claim was an error... Whether this was truly an error or they have backtracked because of the backlash who knows, but it shows that GW won't be as heavy fisted or be allowed to be as heavy fisted as they would like.

Killteam is still on sale on their site, let alone 3rd parties, so is dominion... Maybe it isn't a boycott as such but people are choosing to be picky with their GW spending and they are starting to get worried about that.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 11:37:07


Post by: RazorEdge


drbored wrote:
Want to blame someone? Blame Disney for helping push copyright laws to this ridiculous point.


Or try and fail to sabotage them...


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 13:57:20


Post by: phandaal


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
So they'll stop when the production issues are cleared?
The recasters? Of course not. But it's been my experience that people tend to buy the genuine article when given the choice.

Right now GW isn't giving them that choice.



That's the consensus in my area. If people can't get it from their FLGS and GW isn't selling it, people are just fine printing it themselves or having someone else print it for them, or buying it from a recaster.

This came up most recently in a discussion about Forge World models constantly being out of stock or out of production.

GW shutting down those sources isn't going to make people buy stuff from GW, because sometimes it is physically impossible to do so.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 14:54:14


Post by: NAVARRO


 phandaal wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
So they'll stop when the production issues are cleared?
The recasters? Of course not. But it's been my experience that people tend to buy the genuine article when given the choice.

Right now GW isn't giving them that choice.



That's the consensus in my area. If people can't get it from their FLGS and GW isn't selling it, people are just fine printing it themselves or having someone else print it for them, or buying it from a recaster.

This came up most recently in a discussion about Forge World models constantly being out of stock or out of production.

GW shutting down those sources isn't going to make people buy stuff from GW, because sometimes it is physically impossible to do so.



Also begs the question what GW considers an "infringement"... Ignoring the recast illegal activities from now on.
The 3d printing market is exploding and someone producing a particular mini from scratch may or not may still be deemed as an Infringement. Point being GW can simply shut you down if you dont have the resources to fight it.
The company loses because they cant dispute that, GW loses it because they dont have that specific model for sale and you lose because you cant have that model either.
Artificially GW believes it wins by shutting down potential startup competitors forgetting the not so clear consequences like: the technology is evolving in a way that makes GW model obsolete in the long run. You cant stop that, you can try but that will only erode all good will towards you.

Furthermore and unlike, say Mickey or Mario which are such clear designs the miniatures GW does are for the most part derivative of other folk work, so the same way GW was inspired so are other artists. In the past GW seemed inclined to claim all their own though. Eagles, universal Geometric shapes and so on. Which shows the type of things they think it's their own.

So I believe this is an attempt to tap into shutting down 3d projects while they can.
These projects will only increase in volume and it will be impossible to stop people from printing the files they want. The problem is that unlike previously you needed to sculpt cast and sell, now you send a file by email. So good luck xD Same to 3d only business I think they will cannibalise each other. You simply cannot track files transactions provenience as you did with an object.




Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 15:06:42


Post by: phandaal


The problem with Games Workshop trying to unring the 3D printing bell is that the market is becoming more and more decentralized every day. If you want something printed, all you need is to "know a guy who knows a guy" and you can get it.

So Games Workshop can hire these infringement assistants to do the things we all said they would do, but at the end of the day the horse has well and truly left the barn.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 15:14:58


Post by: hotsauceman1


 phandaal wrote:
caladancid wrote:


Where are all my "Games Workshop is just making these rules to have them, they won't actively go after people" bros at?


Hope they don't take too long. Really need someone to help explain how 2+2=5 here.

Bonus points if they can work in Midwinter Minis immediately getting a YouTube copyright strike from GW for reviewing Warhammer+.

Ugh MWM is so bad.
He went From an ok YouTuber to one that just seems to hate everything.
Not to mention creepy Instagram posts


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 15:22:41


Post by: Dudeface


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 phandaal wrote:
caladancid wrote:


Where are all my "Games Workshop is just making these rules to have them, they won't actively go after people" bros at?


Hope they don't take too long. Really need someone to help explain how 2+2=5 here.

Bonus points if they can work in Midwinter Minis immediately getting a YouTube copyright strike from GW for reviewing Warhammer+.

Ugh MWM is so bad.
He went From an ok YouTuber to one that just seems to hate everything.
Not to mention creepy Instagram posts


That's most of the warhammer community online atm, it's very on trend to GW bash aimlessly.

They could cut prices in half and there'd be a slew of complaints and "it's for show, they'll come and shoot your family in your sleep" type posters.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 15:29:03


Post by: Goose LeChance


Dudeface wrote:

That's most of the warhammer community online atm, it's very on trend to GW bash aimlessly.

They could cut prices in half and there'd be a slew of complaints and "it's for show, they'll come and shoot your family in your sleep" type posters.


If they cut prices in half it would be received with universal praise, silence the majority of their detractors overnight and bring upon a new golden age of peace and harmony.

Luckily there is 0% chance of this ever happening.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 15:40:04


Post by: NAVARRO


Dudeface wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 phandaal wrote:
caladancid wrote:


Where are all my "Games Workshop is just making these rules to have them, they won't actively go after people" bros at?


Hope they don't take too long. Really need someone to help explain how 2+2=5 here.

Bonus points if they can work in Midwinter Minis immediately getting a YouTube copyright strike from GW for reviewing Warhammer+.

Ugh MWM is so bad.
He went From an ok YouTuber to one that just seems to hate everything.
Not to mention creepy Instagram posts


That's most of the warhammer community online atm, it's very on trend to GW bash aimlessly.




Thats most of the Warhammer community online you personally selected to see.
Big difference.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 16:23:14


Post by: phandaal


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 phandaal wrote:
caladancid wrote:


Where are all my "Games Workshop is just making these rules to have them, they won't actively go after people" bros at?


Hope they don't take too long. Really need someone to help explain how 2+2=5 here.

Bonus points if they can work in Midwinter Minis immediately getting a YouTube copyright strike from GW for reviewing Warhammer+.

Ugh MWM is so bad.
He went From an ok YouTuber to one that just seems to hate everything.
Not to mention creepy Instagram posts


I don't watch him either for probably the same reasons as you, and I agree that his negativity doesn't make a fun watch, but whether he's someone we like or not is irrelevant, yeah?

People said that Games Workshop would probably be taking more action with respect to copyright, we were told that we were irrational fear monger haters, and now Games Workshop is doing the thing we said they would do.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 16:32:04


Post by: Gert


No. GW has made one claim on the ad revenue (not a copy strike, not a takedown) that was then clarified as a mistake.
Did any other channels get ad revenue claims? No.
Did it take days for the Legal Team to fix the issue? No.
Did the anti-GW crowd once again take a single incident and use it as justification to launch another wave of "GW is coming for YOU!" rhetoric? Yes.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 16:39:22


Post by: phandaal


Please show us where in this thread anyone said that, Gert.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 16:51:49


Post by: Gert


 phandaal wrote:

People said that Games Workshop would probably be taking more action with respect to copyright, we were told that we were irrational fear monger haters, and now Games Workshop is doing the thing we said they would do.

You mean like this? Blowing a single incident out of proportion.
The topic has been brought up and I am pre-empting the arguments that have already been made elsewhere.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 17:02:20


Post by: endlesswaltz123


You guys think MWM is bad and moans all the time?!?!?! What on earth do you think of the other people who actually don't provide a balanced and reasonable discussion and argument.

MWM's video on the benefits of allowing casters/3d printers to license out the GW back catalogue is one of the most reasonable video's ever. And his video on Warhammer+, wasn't saying anything most of us posters have been saying on here... And in a much more polite manner I'd add.

Some of you need to take a look in the mirror and read back some of your own absolute bile you post on here. Pot Kettle Black.



Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 17:10:00


Post by: phandaal


 Gert wrote:
 phandaal wrote:

People said that Games Workshop would probably be taking more action with respect to copyright, we were told that we were irrational fear monger haters, and now Games Workshop is doing the thing we said they would do.

You mean like this? Blowing a single incident out of proportion.
The topic has been brought up and I am pre-empting the arguments that have already been made elsewhere.


No, I don't mean like that. I mean, who has said "Games Workshop is coming for YOU" as you claim.

You are preempting arguments that you are making up in your own head. You know this, of course. Anything to avoid thinking about the fact that Games Workshop is doing just what we said they would. Must be exhausting.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 17:12:20


Post by: endlesswaltz123


 phandaal wrote:
 Gert wrote:
 phandaal wrote:

People said that Games Workshop would probably be taking more action with respect to copyright, we were told that we were irrational fear monger haters, and now Games Workshop is doing the thing we said they would do.

You mean like this? Blowing a single incident out of proportion.
The topic has been brought up and I am pre-empting the arguments that have already been made elsewhere.


No, I don't mean like that. I mean, who has said "Games Workshop is coming for YOU" as you claim.

You are preempting arguments that you are making up in your own head. You know this, of course. Anything to avoid thinking about the fact that Games Workshop is doing just what we said they would. Must be exhausting.


Nah, you got called out and are just back tracking now and trying to gaslight Gert whilst doing it... Don't be that person.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 17:18:53


Post by: phandaal


Let me be clear: I stand by everything I said.

I don't stand by whatever delusion people invent in their head to argue against though.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 17:28:58


Post by: endlesswaltz123


It's just a play on a saying/meme 'They're coming for you', typically used in response to over the top conspiracy theorists spouting utter bubbles.... Much like a lot of this thread.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 17:31:51


Post by: Grimtuff


Wait? Since when did MWM get lumped in with the “hater” crowd? I got YouTube to stop recommending me his vids for the exact opposite reason, as he was too “white-knightey” for my tastes.

Weird. Has something happened and he’s gone and done a heel turn?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 17:40:29


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ugh MWM is so bad.
He went From an ok YouTuber to one that just seems to hate everything.
What MWM have you been watching? He mostly does painting and gameplay videos.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 17:43:42


Post by: Arbitrator


 Grimtuff wrote:
Wait? Since when did MWM get lumped in with the “hater” crowd? I got YouTube to stop recommending me his vids for the exact opposite reason, as he was too “white-knightey” for my tastes.

Weird. Has something happened and he’s gone and done a heel turn?

I've seen 'Uncle Atom' get lumped in with the hater crowd ever since he was critical of the Kill-Team Compendium too.

There can be no repentance for heresies once you've sinned against Almighty Rountree apparently.

Hail Corporate.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 17:47:30


Post by: Cronch


 Gert wrote:

Did the anti-GW crowd once again take a single incident and use it as justification to launch another wave of "GW is coming for YOU!" rhetoric? Yes.

Does it hurt GW in any noticeable, measurable way, and if yes, why do you care?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 17:48:49


Post by: Goose LeChance


 Arbitrator wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
Wait? Since when did MWM get lumped in with the “hater” crowd? I got YouTube to stop recommending me his vids for the exact opposite reason, as he was too “white-knightey” for my tastes.

Weird. Has something happened and he’s gone and done a heel turn?

I've seen 'Uncle Atom' get lumped in with the hater crowd ever since he was critical of the Kill-Team Compendium too.

There can be no repentance for heresies once you've sinned against Almighty Rountree apparently.

Hail Corporate.


I just assume every youtuber is a complete shill for GW and ignore them.

Which makes it funny when they get in trouble with the boss


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 17:52:34


Post by: Gert


Cronch wrote:
Does it hurt GW in any noticeable, measurable way, and if yes, why do you care?

Maybe I'm just sick of the constant aggro and negativity, as well as the attempts to maintain the momentum of said aggro and negativity.
By all means, be annoyed for a variety of reasons. But made-up stuff or stuff that has been blown out of proportion? Come on, it's not neccesary.

As a side note regarding "hurting GW". It's not the profit margins or shareholder dividends that suffer any time people get up in arms, it's the staff in shops and on the Community Team, it's people who aren't filled with an irrational hatred of a company, it's the general state of the hobby in general.
Nothing good comes from raiding the Twitch streams with rage about how "GW killed TTS/MWM/the latest inaccurate rage of the week".


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 17:55:00


Post by: Cronch


Last 10 years and more taught me that if you're not angry at the entertainment industry, they just keep piling feth on. Better to cause a stink and make GW retract the "mistaken" claim than not.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 17:55:31


Post by: endlesswaltz123


 Gert wrote:
Cronch wrote:
Does it hurt GW in any noticeable, measurable way, and if yes, why do you care?

Maybe I'm just sick of the constant aggro and negativity, as well as the attempts to maintain the momentum of said aggro and negativity.
By all means, be annoyed for a variety of reasons. But made-up stuff or stuff that has been blown out of proportion? Come on, it's not neccesary.


Ignore button, makes threads a lot quicker to read as well.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 18:01:36


Post by: Albertorius


 Gert wrote:
Cronch wrote:
Does it hurt GW in any noticeable, measurable way, and if yes, why do you care?

Maybe I'm just sick of the constant aggro and negativity, as well as the attempts to maintain the momentum of said aggro and negativity.

I would argue that the Ignore button is there for a reason. Don't like to see stuff? Ignore it.

EDIT: What endlesswaltz123 said


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 18:01:46


Post by: Overread


Cronch wrote:
Last 10 years and more taught me that if you're not angry at the entertainment industry, they just keep piling feth on. Better to cause a stink and make GW retract the "mistaken" claim than not.


They already retracted it
We don't need to raise a stink, the situation has already resolved before we even got to talking about it.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 18:11:21


Post by: yukishiro1


Nobody forced GW to copyright strike Midwinter Minis. Blaming people for reacting to that is genuinely hilarious. The seamless pivot of defenders of the action in this thread from "it was fine to strike him!" to "it was an error to strike him!" brings to mind the scene in 1984 where the braying mob seamlessly transitions from being at war with Eurasia and allied to Eastasia to the reverse without batting an eye.

If you are tired of GW being criticized for doing ridiculous things, perhaps the best thing to do would be to come around to the position that GW shouldn't be doing ridiculous things in the first place, rather than blame the people reacting to said ridiculous things.

"They retracted it" doesn't fix the situation. They never should have issued the strike in the first place, and the claim that it was an error is not credible as a claim it was not intentional. This was a manual copyright strike. You can't do those "by mistake." Now was it an error in the sense that it was completely legally unjustified? Definitely. But that's the problem: GW is behaving in an irresponsible and legally indefensible way. Walking it back after the fact after it blew up in their faces doesn't change what they did, any more than someone who performs a meritless citizen's arrest on you can just say "oh, oops, I guess that was an error" and then get all huffy if you're still angry about having been wrongfully detained.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 18:13:00


Post by: caladancid


 Overread wrote:
Cronch wrote:
Last 10 years and more taught me that if you're not angry at the entertainment industry, they just keep piling feth on. Better to cause a stink and make GW retract the "mistaken" claim than not.


They already retracted it
We don't need to raise a stink, the situation has already resolved before we even got to talking about it.


Yeah and since they retracted it (after it made waves) we should absolve them of all responsibility!!

If y’all could just sit back and listen to yourselves for just one minute. First it was, this was an accident so it’s not a big deal. Then, when that didn’t work it was well probably it was just someone low in the company (literally the subject of my original post). And NOW, it’s well it was on purpose but they took it back so it’s not bad.

Come on. What will it take? When GW decides to exercise the part of their policy that says anything that brings discredit to GW? You think Dakkadakka or B&C will survive that? Even your site Overread, even with the excessive moderating there, I guarantee you will not be unscathed.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 18:15:20


Post by: Gert


I do ignore some who I consider being the worst offenders but at the same time I also see worth in discussing views that are different from mine and challenging those that are, in a diplomatic sense, adverse to others.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 18:15:34


Post by: Cronch


 Overread wrote:
Cronch wrote:
Last 10 years and more taught me that if you're not angry at the entertainment industry, they just keep piling feth on. Better to cause a stink and make GW retract the "mistaken" claim than not.


They already retracted it
We don't need to raise a stink, the situation has already resolved before we even got to talking about it.

They already did, but they didn't go "oops, that's a mistake" and did it right away, did they? For all you know, if no one reacted to it, it'd just stay there. It's possible it was a genuine mistake, but...it's a business, they never fix their mistakes unless they feel something is at stake. Businesses are basically 5yo's with even worse grasp of object permanence.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 18:19:41


Post by: Albertorius


 Gert wrote:
I do ignore some who I consider being the worst offenders but at the same time I also see worth in discussing views that are different from mine and challenging those that are, in a diplomatic sense, adverse to others.


Well, fair enough


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 18:20:36


Post by: yukishiro1


They only retracted it after Midwinter protested it, and after it became a huge PR black eye. Even after all that, it was only retracted based on his challenge, it's not like they even did it on their own initiative once they realized what a snafu it was.

It's not possible it was a genuine mistake in the sense that they didn't intend to strike him. It's not possible to accidentally manually copyright strike someone on youtube. It's not like you can just get fat fingers and oops, you hit Midwinter by mistake instead of some other youtuber. The only sense in which it could be an "error" is in the sense that it was legally unjustified. In other words, GW abused the Youtube copyright strike process and is now trying to spin that as just an "error."


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 18:20:59


Post by: Overread


Cronch wrote:
 Overread wrote:
Cronch wrote:
Last 10 years and more taught me that if you're not angry at the entertainment industry, they just keep piling feth on. Better to cause a stink and make GW retract the "mistaken" claim than not.


They already retracted it
We don't need to raise a stink, the situation has already resolved before we even got to talking about it.

They already did, but they didn't go "oops, that's a mistake" and did it right away, did they? For all you know, if no one reacted to it, it'd just stay there. It's possible it was a genuine mistake, but...it's a business, they never fix their mistakes unless they feel something is at stake. Businesses are basically 5yo's with even worse grasp of object permanence.


I mean that's the same as most people. If they make a mistake and don't notice the mistake and its not flagged up they will leave it as is.
By all means if GW, or any firm/person, makes a mistake it deserves flagging up. At which point the resolution and speed of resolution are what's important and what I judge them on. So in this case it was flagged up fairly fast and resolved pretty fast in a positive way. No revenue was lost, no video was lost, no one outside of GW was punished or penalised.

I prefer to judge on the whole thing not just the first act.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 18:26:56


Post by: yukishiro1


Again, it's not possible they did it "by mistake." You cannot mistakenly manually copyright strike someone on Youtube. You can't just fat finger a button accidentally and boom, it happens. You need to fill out a detailed form and go through several confirmations.

By "error" they mean "there was no legal basis for what we did," not "we accidentally did it without meaning to." Though they're certainly happy if you're confused into thinking it was the latter - that's why they chose those words in the first place.

GW has effectively admitted there was no legal basis for their action. They abused the Youtube copyright strike process, were called on it, and had to walk it back. Now did they abuse it intentionally in bad faith, or are they instead simply so clueless about copyright laws that they genuinely thought it was infringing? Who knows, that's impossible to say for certain without inside info. But either alternative is frightening in terms of what it says about the company's professionalism and competence.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 18:30:21


Post by: Gert


Mistake - An act or judgement that is misguided or wrong (noun). To be wrong about (verb).
Yup, "mistake" fits the bill.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 18:32:25


Post by: endlesswaltz123


Mistakes and accidents are different things. Accidents are the example above with fat thumbs, mistakes you can make knowingly by misinformation or other factors that cause you to have an error of judgement.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 18:45:57


Post by: Albertorius


 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Mistakes and accidents are different things. Accidents are the example above with fat thumbs, mistakes you can make knowingly by misinformation or other factors that cause you to have an error of judgement.


Yes, basically. Issuing the copyright claim was "a mistake". But I fail to see how they could have done it "by mistake".


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 18:52:23


Post by: yukishiro1


Right. So we're all on the same page then that they intentionally issued a copyright strike against Midwinter, which they have now admitted they had no legal basis for issuing. So they were either acting maliciously in bad faith, or they don't understand what copyright protections are in the first place, and genuinely thought his video was infringing.

Both possibilities are really bad. It's not something GW can just say "oh, oops, on reflection, that was an error." It's not acceptable for a billion-dollar company to be striking people without any legal basis. In the best case scenario, this shows the people they have doing IP enforcement don't understand the IP laws in very basic ways. That's a massive problem, whether or not they walk things back after being called out on it.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 18:52:26


Post by: Crimson


The most charitable reading of it being 'mistake' was that they were going through a ton of content about people sharing WH+ stuff illegally and issued a bunch of strikes and a legit review got hit in the process.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 18:55:11


Post by: Dysartes


 Overread wrote:
No revenue was lost, no video was lost, no one outside of GW was punished or penalised.


...if the video in question was demonetised for X period of time, surely revenue has been lost? Or does GW running away mean this MWM character will get the ad earnings he would otherwise have gotten for that period, whatever that may be?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 18:57:45


Post by: yukishiro1


 Crimson wrote:
The most charitable reading of it being 'mistake' was that they were going through a ton of content about people sharing WH+ stuff illegally and issued a bunch of strikes and a legit review got hit in the process.
\

Correct, and that's totally unacceptable, because the whole process is set up to make that impossible by making you have to fill out a different form for each strike, attesting that you've reviewed that specific case. If they were just going through the motions, that itself is an abuse of the copyright strike process.

In a just world, GW would be punished by Youtube for this abuse of the process by having their copyright strikes flagged for pre-review before execution for some period of time, to make sure they are taking the process seriously.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 19:05:00


Post by: Albertorius


 Dysartes wrote:
 Overread wrote:
No revenue was lost, no video was lost, no one outside of GW was punished or penalised.


...if the video in question was demonetised for X period of time, surely revenue has been lost? Or does GW running away mean this MWM character will get the ad earnings he would otherwise have gotten for that period, whatever that may be?


The second: YT stores the money until the resolution of the claim.

Had it been taking down it would have been different, of course.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 19:05:05


Post by: yukishiro1


 Dysartes wrote:
 Overread wrote:
No revenue was lost, no video was lost, no one outside of GW was punished or penalised.


...if the video in question was demonetised for X period of time, surely revenue has been lost? Or does GW running away mean this MWM character will get the ad earnings he would otherwise have gotten for that period, whatever that may be?


Depends on what exactly happened. He said he the video was demonetized, and in that case, no, you don't get your money back if you've been actually wrongfully demonetized, on the theory that Youtube can't calculate what your lost revenues would have been. Yes, that's bogus, but unless they've changed their policy very recently, that's still the case.

If he wasn't actually demonetized but the video was instead flagged and the revenues sequestered pending a dispute as to whom they should be paid to, he would be able to receive those revenues now that the accuser has withdrawn their complaint.



Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 19:07:01


Post by: Crimson


yukishiro1 wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
The most charitable reading of it being 'mistake' was that they were going through a ton of content about people sharing WH+ stuff illegally and issued a bunch of strikes and a legit review got hit in the process.
\

Correct, and that's totally unacceptable, because the whole process is set up to make that impossible by making you have to fill out a different form for each strike, attesting that you've reviewed that specific case. If they were just going through the motions, that itself is an abuse of the copyright strike process.

In a just world, GW would be punished by Youtube for this abuse of the process by having their copyright strikes flagged for pre-review before execution for some period of time, to make sure they are taking the process seriously.

Yes. But this is not such a world. Youtube strike system is massively abusable, and big companies use it against content creators all the time and Youtube doesn't care.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 19:07:09


Post by: Albertorius


yukishiro1 wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
 Overread wrote:
No revenue was lost, no video was lost, no one outside of GW was punished or penalised.


...if the video in question was demonetised for X period of time, surely revenue has been lost? Or does GW running away mean this MWM character will get the ad earnings he would otherwise have gotten for that period, whatever that may be?


Depends on what exactly happened. He said he the video was demonetized, and in that case, no, you don't get your money back if you've been actually wrongfully demonetized, on the theory that Youtube can't calculate what your lost revenues would have been. Yes, that's bogus, but unless they've changed their policy very recently, that's still the case.

If he wasn't actually demonetized but the video was instead flagged and the revenues sequestered pending a dispute as to whom they should be paid to, he would be able to receive those revenues now that the accuser has withdrawn their complaint.



Better explained


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 19:07:40


Post by: Dysartes


yukishiro1 wrote:
He said he the video was demonetized, and in that case, no, you don't get your money back if you've been actually wrongfully demonetized, on the theory that Youtube can't calculate what your lost revenues would have been. Yes, that's bogus, but unless they've changed their policy very recently, that's still the case.


I've not looked into how YT calculates this, but they'll have the data for views, etc, so surely this could be reverse-engineered? Maybe not if there's a click-through element, but certainly for "completed watches" during the period of time the strike was in place for (depending on how this is calculated, anyway - but Big Data is called Big Data for a reason).


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 19:22:16


Post by: yukishiro1


 Dysartes wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
He said he the video was demonetized, and in that case, no, you don't get your money back if you've been actually wrongfully demonetized, on the theory that Youtube can't calculate what your lost revenues would have been. Yes, that's bogus, but unless they've changed their policy very recently, that's still the case.


I've not looked into how YT calculates this, but they'll have the data for views, etc, so surely this could be reverse-engineered? Maybe not if there's a click-through element, but certainly for "completed watches" during the period of time the strike was in place for (depending on how this is calculated, anyway - but Big Data is called Big Data for a reason).


Yeah, but that'd mean YT would be paying them for ads that weren't actually shown. I.e. YT would be eating the costs of the lost revenue. Which they should, don't get me wrong. But YT isn't exactly known for being charitable.

I mean really what should happen is YT should pay him what he would have earned, and bill GW for it, maybe with a 5x penalty for abuse of the process. YT makes money, the creator makes money, the bad actor gets punished, everybody's happy. But that doesn't actually happen because YT is notorious for taking the side of the big guy.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 19:25:05


Post by: NinthMusketeer


 phandaal wrote:
 Gert wrote:
 phandaal wrote:

People said that Games Workshop would probably be taking more action with respect to copyright, we were told that we were irrational fear monger haters, and now Games Workshop is doing the thing we said they would do.

You mean like this? Blowing a single incident out of proportion.
The topic has been brought up and I am pre-empting the arguments that have already been made elsewhere.


No, I don't mean like that. I mean, who has said "Games Workshop is coming for YOU" as you claim.

You are preempting arguments that you are making up in your own head. You know this, of course. Anything to avoid thinking about the fact that Games Workshop is doing just what we said they would. Must be exhausting.
You are both exaggerating past and present arguments into hyperbolic exclamations that do not accurately represent what the other side actually said.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 19:34:34


Post by: yukishiro1


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
You are both exaggerating past and present arguments into hyperbolic exclamations that do not accurately represent what the other side actually said.


Are you new here?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 19:38:00


Post by: caladancid


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 phandaal wrote:
 Gert wrote:
 phandaal wrote:

People said that Games Workshop would probably be taking more action with respect to copyright, we were told that we were irrational fear monger haters, and now Games Workshop is doing the thing we said they would do.

You mean like this? Blowing a single incident out of proportion.
The topic has been brought up and I am pre-empting the arguments that have already been made elsewhere.


No, I don't mean like that. I mean, who has said "Games Workshop is coming for YOU" as you claim.

You are preempting arguments that you are making up in your own head. You know this, of course. Anything to avoid thinking about the fact that Games Workshop is doing just what we said they would. Must be exhausting.
You are both exaggerating past and present arguments into hyperbolic exclamations that do not accurately represent what the other side actually said.


If you cared to, you could find examples of everything he said on the first page of the News and Rumors section. But, only if you wanted to, and weren't trying to make a clever point.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 19:40:34


Post by: NinthMusketeer


yukishiro1 wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
You are both exaggerating past and present arguments into hyperbolic exclamations that do not accurately represent what the other side actually said.


Are you new here?
I've actually never changed my avatar; when I joined it was a normal pig but over time the foul energies of the ruinous internet have corrupted the image much as they have done to my soul.

But more seriously, they seem reasonable and I think if they started looking for common ground they'd find it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
caladancid wrote:
If you cared to, you could find examples of everything he said on the first page of the News and Rumors section. But, only if you wanted to, and weren't trying to make a clever point.
I don't think dredging up a bunch of examples as a hit against both of them would push the discussion in a positive direction. I think they are reasonable enough to understand that we humans do tend to hyperbolize things online and that they really aren't that far apart. And I didn't feel it was clever, I just know in the past I have been helped by people pointing out what was obvious to everyone else but I was missing due to being focused in on an argument, but I do thank you for the compliment.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 19:50:19


Post by: phandaal


Nothing I said was hyperbole.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 20:10:46


Post by: NinthMusketeer


*sigh* As they say, hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 20:27:57


Post by: Dudeface


I just don't understand the inability to parse this as potentially a mistake or accident.

I don't know how these forms are completed or applied. If you copy and paste the url of the video or apply it to an open tab, of course it is possible to insert the wrong url by accident.

To be a mistake, if it's some poor soul tired and with a quota and stack of a few hundred videos to plough through. They either don't fully understand what they're doing, or make an error of judgement on the grounds of what they see. It could be a training error.

Human error is always a risk and I don't think branding them with aims of abusing a system to deprive people of income, or only changing tact as a part of a PR backlash is fair here.

If it happens repeatedly, sure, but as a one off? Likely some tired admin guy who gets a slap on the wrist and feels bad for a week or two.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 20:37:08


Post by: caladancid


Dudeface wrote:
I just don't understand the inability to parse this as potentially a mistake or accident.

I don't know how these forms are completed or applied. If you copy and paste the url of the video or apply it to an open tab, of course it is possible to insert the wrong url by accident.

To be a mistake, if it's some poor soul tired and with a quota and stack of a few hundred videos to plough through. They either don't fully understand what they're doing, or make an error of judgement on the grounds of what they see. It could be a training error.

Human error is always a risk and I don't think branding them with aims of abusing a system to deprive people of income, or only changing tact as a part of a PR backlash is fair here.

If it happens repeatedly, sure, but as a one off? Likely some tired admin guy who gets a slap on the wrist and feels bad for a week or two.

.
Games Workshop- Changes their IP policies.

Games Workshop- Begins to pursue a wider variety of creators for IP usage.

Games Workshop- Hires additional staff to hunt for IP usage.

Games Workshop- Strikes a YouTube video.

You- Why can't everyone just give them the benefit of the doubt?!


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 20:39:11


Post by: Cronch


Dudeface wrote:
I just don't understand the inability to parse this as potentially a mistake or accident.

I don't know how these forms are completed or applied. If you copy and paste the url of the video or apply it to an open tab, of course it is possible to insert the wrong url by accident.

To be a mistake, if it's some poor soul tired and with a quota and stack of a few hundred videos to plough through. They either don't fully understand what they're doing, or make an error of judgement on the grounds of what they see. It could be a training error.

Human error is always a risk and I don't think branding them with aims of abusing a system to deprive people of income, or only changing tact as a part of a PR backlash is fair here.

If it happens repeatedly, sure, but as a one off? Likely some tired admin guy who gets a slap on the wrist and feels bad for a week or two.

Sure, great, but here's the thing, YT strikes/claims can threaten people's livelihood. It's not an innocent whoopsie.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 20:41:11


Post by: Overread


As someone who has moderated on forums and see new mods join teams (and been one myself), I can totally see how mistakes happen; and also how new people can make miss-informed actions either because they didn't get enough guidance or perhaps they interpreted what they got slightly differently than was intended.

So yes even if it wasn't done by accidental clicking (which can easily be done if you're processing a batch of things in one go); then the person might well have seen GW content or a flag/report for it and didn't check enough or interpreted their duties wrongly and took the wrong action



GW is VERY unlikely to be paying a lawyer to do most of the actual mechanics of this, a lot of this is going to be overseen by someone from legal ,but likely done by someone much lower down the rankings and perhaps someone who isn't a core gamer or legal person etc...

So chances are they can make mistakes.



That's why for me the key isn't just that a strike was issued; its the resolution and fallout from that. An error was found, GW resolved that error and things moved forward. Hopefully whoever and however the strike was issued would be reviewed and experience/training/new working practice imposed to reduce the chances of this happening again.



In the end GW gains no benefit shutting down reviews like that and even enters into grounds where they could be legally challenged and lose. There's no gain for them in the long nor short term.

Like I said before I try to look at the whole event not just the initial strike. I also note that this is a strike issued in isolation, not part of a coordinated campaign of strikes or a big series of them.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 20:44:01


Post by: Mario


Dysartes wrote:I've not looked into how YT calculates this, but they'll have the data for views, etc, so surely this could be reverse-engineered? Maybe not if there's a click-through element, but certainly for "completed watches" during the period of time the strike was in place for (depending on how this is calculated, anyway - but Big Data is called Big Data for a reason).
Ad rates differ by ad, demand, target audience and all kinds of other factors. They probably have data on who watched the video, who they are, for how long (how many and what type of ad slots there would be in a video), and all that but not what ads would have played (and thus paid). So if an ad is not shown they are missing the whole advertiser side of that ad acution (and how much they'd pay for it) and these rates would vary each time as they also depend on multiple factors that they do not know about (surprising but Google can't yet predict alternative futures).

Youtube creators can't even be sure they'll make a certain amount of money based on whatever views/month they get due to the dynamic nature of how ads and ad prices are allotted. They can guess based on historic data (and what type of audience they have) but if I remember correctly even the same ad can be worth different rates depending on all kinds of factors. The general google ad auction system:
https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/6366577?hl=en

The youtube version (from the advertisers side):
https://mailchimp.com/marketing-glossary/youtube-advertising/
The amount you’ll ultimately pay for your ads will depend on how much you’ve bid per view or 1,000 impressions. Keep in mind that your bid per view isn’t always the price you’ll pay—it’s the maximum price you’re willing to pay. Your actual cost will be 1 penny above the second-lowest price someone else is willing to pay. An example might help. Let’s say you set your CPV at $0.30, but the next highest bid is $0.20, you’ll be charged only $0.21 per view.


Also if the ad wasn't shown (despite it being enabled on the creator side) then nobody paid for it and there's simply no cut to give to the creator in the first place. That's just a fundamental thing about youtube not wanting to give away their own money.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 20:45:20


Post by: NinthMusketeer


caladancid wrote:
Spoiler:
Dudeface wrote:
I just don't understand the inability to parse this as potentially a mistake or accident.

I don't know how these forms are completed or applied. If you copy and paste the url of the video or apply it to an open tab, of course it is possible to insert the wrong url by accident.

To be a mistake, if it's some poor soul tired and with a quota and stack of a few hundred videos to plough through. They either don't fully understand what they're doing, or make an error of judgement on the grounds of what they see. It could be a training error.

Human error is always a risk and I don't think branding them with aims of abusing a system to deprive people of income, or only changing tact as a part of a PR backlash is fair here.

If it happens repeatedly, sure, but as a one off? Likely some tired admin guy who gets a slap on the wrist and feels bad for a week or two.

.
Games Workshop- Changes their IP policies.

Games Workshop- Begins to pursue a wider variety of creators for IP usage.

Games Workshop- Hires additional staff to hunt for IP usage.

Games Workshop- Strikes a YouTube video.


You- Why can't everyone just give them the benefit of the doubt?!
That is quite clearly not what he said.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 20:48:01


Post by: yukishiro1


Dudeface wrote:
I just don't understand the inability to parse this as potentially a mistake or accident.

I don't know how these forms are completed or applied. If you copy and paste the url of the video or apply it to an open tab, of course it is possible to insert the wrong url by accident.

To be a mistake, if it's some poor soul tired and with a quota and stack of a few hundred videos to plough through. They either don't fully understand what they're doing, or make an error of judgement on the grounds of what they see. It could be a training error.

Human error is always a risk and I don't think branding them with aims of abusing a system to deprive people of income, or only changing tact as a part of a PR backlash is fair here.

If it happens repeatedly, sure, but as a one off? Likely some tired admin guy who gets a slap on the wrist and feels bad for a week or two.


If you don't know how the forms work that probably explains why you don't understand.

You can find the form here:

http://www.youtube.com/copyright_complaint_form

As you can see, when you copy the URL, it brings up the video for you to confirm it's the correct link. You must then provide more detailed info about the alleged infringement - timestamps, links to the material being infringed, etc. And you must also state under penalty of perjury that you're submitting a valid claim.

If someone is tired and not paying attention to what they're doing and violating the law in the process by submitting a false claim, that's on GW for employing overworked, inattentive people. If someone doesn't understand what they're doing, that's on GW for delegating its IP enforcement to incompetent people who don't know what they're doing. If it's a "training error," that's on GW for using a live complaint as a training exercise and failing to property supervise the training.

It's completely fair to hold GW responsible for what it did. Nobody was holding a gun to anyone's head forcing them to file a complaint. This is someone's life they were messing with. When you do that, the responsibility is on you to make sure you're messing with them for a valid reason, not that your employees are exhausted and/or incompetent and/or malicious. A company is responsible for the actions of its employees.

It's like saying "oops I filed a false police report and someone got wrongly arrested, oh well, I was tired, nobody died or got hurt, no harm no foul right? What's the big deal?"

I mean, GW hasn't even come out and said why the "error" happened - and I guarantee you it will not. There is zero reason to give them the benefit of the doubt here when they haven't even given their side of the story, and never will.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 20:51:00


Post by: Overread


I don't think anyone is absolving GW of their responsibility for what they did. They are just giving reasonable justification for why an abnormal action was taken, an action which GW did revoke.

Anything else - reasoning, compensation etc... is all honestly a private matter between the youtube creator and GW themselves; or between the creator and youtube


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 20:51:56


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Who is suggesting GW gets the benefit of the doubt? All I see is people suggesting that what GW says was a mistake was, in fact, a mistake. Not that all is forgiven, not that their recent moves mean nothing, not even that they shouldn't be criticized for making a mistake, just that the company which makes mistakes all the time made another one.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 21:02:04


Post by: yukishiro1


GW hasn't said anything directly at all about why it happened. Midwinter said he was told the claim was submitted "in error." This is lawyerly language which carefully makes no real representations as to what actually occurred. It would be "in error" if it was truly accidental, it would be "in error" if it was based on a faulty understanding the law, and it would also be "in error" even if it was submitted with knowledge that there was no basis for it.

More fundamentally...there is no reasonable justification for submitting a false copyright claim. There is no way this happens reasonably, in a "eh, everybody makes mistakes" kind of way. It doesn't fundamentally matter why it happened, it is never acceptable behavior. If GW is treating the whole process so cavalierly that the result is "oh well, errors happen" that itself is not reasonable.

That doesn't mean I'm saying GW should have its corporate character revoked and all the management put into the stocks. But this isn't a mistake it's ok to make. This is someone's livelihood they were messing with. We should take this stuff seriously. It's a big deal.

 Overread wrote:
I don't think anyone is absolving GW of their responsibility for what they did.


I was responding to a specific post that treated the issue as something to "slap an admin guy on the wrist" over. That is very much absolving GW of responsibility in my book. I don't see how it could be possibly read as anything other than absolving GW of responsibility, as well as dismissing the seriousness of the error.

It just shows such a misunderstanding of the importance and gravity of submitting a copyright complaint. I think a lot of people see something on the internet and assume it doesn't really matter, it's not "IRL." But this is "IRL" - it is someone's job that is at stake here. The fact that in practice YT allows big companies like GW to get away with these sorts of "errors" by turning a blind eye doesn't make it less of a big deal for the person on the receiving end.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 21:03:47


Post by: caladancid


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
caladancid wrote:
Spoiler:
Dudeface wrote:
I just don't understand the inability to parse this as potentially a mistake or accident.

I don't know how these forms are completed or applied. If you copy and paste the url of the video or apply it to an open tab, of course it is possible to insert the wrong url by accident.

To be a mistake, if it's some poor soul tired and with a quota and stack of a few hundred videos to plough through. They either don't fully understand what they're doing, or make an error of judgement on the grounds of what they see. It could be a training error.

Human error is always a risk and I don't think branding them with aims of abusing a system to deprive people of income, or only changing tact as a part of a PR backlash is fair here.

If it happens repeatedly, sure, but as a one off? Likely some tired admin guy who gets a slap on the wrist and feels bad for a week or two.

.
Games Workshop- Changes their IP policies.

Games Workshop- Begins to pursue a wider variety of creators for IP usage.

Games Workshop- Hires additional staff to hunt for IP usage.

Games Workshop- Strikes a YouTube video.


You- Why can't everyone just give them the benefit of the doubt?!
That is quite clearly not what he said.


He/she asked a question/expressed confusion as to why a number of people didn't put stock in this being a simple mistake. I responded to said question with a demonstration, that though reductive (a bit), adequately answered the question.

It is a rhetorical tool that can be very effective, though sometimes not with people who have replaced logical thinking with emotional attachment to a company.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 21:41:50


Post by: MaxT


What happened with all the stuff about games mods? Did that ever come to anything?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 22:02:36


Post by: Mentlegen324


caladancid wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
I just don't understand the inability to parse this as potentially a mistake or accident.

I don't know how these forms are completed or applied. If you copy and paste the url of the video or apply it to an open tab, of course it is possible to insert the wrong url by accident.

To be a mistake, if it's some poor soul tired and with a quota and stack of a few hundred videos to plough through. They either don't fully understand what they're doing, or make an error of judgement on the grounds of what they see. It could be a training error.

Human error is always a risk and I don't think branding them with aims of abusing a system to deprive people of income, or only changing tact as a part of a PR backlash is fair here.

If it happens repeatedly, sure, but as a one off? Likely some tired admin guy who gets a slap on the wrist and feels bad for a week or two.

.
Games Workshop- Changes their IP policies.



They didn't, actually. The claim of them changing their IP rules to not allow animations that keeps being touted is hyperbole, as the IP rules that have been in place for at least have a decade also didn't allow animations and similar such things. It's not a new rule.

They updated the guidelines to shorten it all and re-word parts, but beyond those wording changes what the guidelines cover is the same with the updated guidelines as it was before.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 22:13:44


Post by: caladancid


 Mentlegen324 wrote:
caladancid wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
I just don't understand the inability to parse this as potentially a mistake or accident.

I don't know how these forms are completed or applied. If you copy and paste the url of the video or apply it to an open tab, of course it is possible to insert the wrong url by accident.

To be a mistake, if it's some poor soul tired and with a quota and stack of a few hundred videos to plough through. They either don't fully understand what they're doing, or make an error of judgement on the grounds of what they see. It could be a training error.

Human error is always a risk and I don't think branding them with aims of abusing a system to deprive people of income, or only changing tact as a part of a PR backlash is fair here.

If it happens repeatedly, sure, but as a one off? Likely some tired admin guy who gets a slap on the wrist and feels bad for a week or two.

.
Games Workshop- Changes their IP policies.



They didn't, actually. The claim of them changing their IP rules to not allow animations that keeps being touted is hyperbole, as the IP rules that have been in place for at least have a decade also didn't allow animations and similar such things. It's not a new rule.

They updated the guidelines to shorten it all and re-word parts, but beyond those wording changes what the guidelines cover is the same with the updated guidelines as it was before.


They did change the guidelines. You can call it updating, but it was a change- that led to different enforcement than was taking place before the change/updating.

I feel like maybe you wrote this without looking at it, and then read it and came back and made edits.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 22:31:36


Post by: phandaal


caladancid wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
caladancid wrote:
Spoiler:
Dudeface wrote:
I just don't understand the inability to parse this as potentially a mistake or accident.

I don't know how these forms are completed or applied. If you copy and paste the url of the video or apply it to an open tab, of course it is possible to insert the wrong url by accident.

To be a mistake, if it's some poor soul tired and with a quota and stack of a few hundred videos to plough through. They either don't fully understand what they're doing, or make an error of judgement on the grounds of what they see. It could be a training error.

Human error is always a risk and I don't think branding them with aims of abusing a system to deprive people of income, or only changing tact as a part of a PR backlash is fair here.

If it happens repeatedly, sure, but as a one off? Likely some tired admin guy who gets a slap on the wrist and feels bad for a week or two.

.
Games Workshop- Changes their IP policies.

Games Workshop- Begins to pursue a wider variety of creators for IP usage.

Games Workshop- Hires additional staff to hunt for IP usage.

Games Workshop- Strikes a YouTube video.


You- Why can't everyone just give them the benefit of the doubt?!
That is quite clearly not what he said.


He/she asked a question/expressed confusion as to why a number of people didn't put stock in this being a simple mistake. I responded to said question with a demonstration, that though reductive (a bit), adequately answered the question.

It is a rhetorical tool that can be very effective, though sometimes not with people who have replaced logical thinking with emotional attachment to a company.


People are trying very, very hard not to think about the fact that Games Workshop is doing exactly what people said they would do.

Don't connect the dots. That would be hyperbole.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 23:04:14


Post by: yukishiro1


Mentlegen also said it was "absurd" to suggest there was no valid basis for the copyright claim GW made against Midwinter that GW itself has now withdrawn because there was, in fact, no valid basis for it. Soo...



Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 23:11:42


Post by: Overread


 phandaal wrote:
caladancid wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
caladancid wrote:
Spoiler:
Dudeface wrote:
I just don't understand the inability to parse this as potentially a mistake or accident.

I don't know how these forms are completed or applied. If you copy and paste the url of the video or apply it to an open tab, of course it is possible to insert the wrong url by accident.

To be a mistake, if it's some poor soul tired and with a quota and stack of a few hundred videos to plough through. They either don't fully understand what they're doing, or make an error of judgement on the grounds of what they see. It could be a training error.

Human error is always a risk and I don't think branding them with aims of abusing a system to deprive people of income, or only changing tact as a part of a PR backlash is fair here.

If it happens repeatedly, sure, but as a one off? Likely some tired admin guy who gets a slap on the wrist and feels bad for a week or two.

.
Games Workshop- Changes their IP policies.

Games Workshop- Begins to pursue a wider variety of creators for IP usage.

Games Workshop- Hires additional staff to hunt for IP usage.

Games Workshop- Strikes a YouTube video.


You- Why can't everyone just give them the benefit of the doubt?!
That is quite clearly not what he said.


He/she asked a question/expressed confusion as to why a number of people didn't put stock in this being a simple mistake. I responded to said question with a demonstration, that though reductive (a bit), adequately answered the question.

It is a rhetorical tool that can be very effective, though sometimes not with people who have replaced logical thinking with emotional attachment to a company.


People are trying very, very hard not to think about the fact that Games Workshop is doing exactly what people said they would do.

Don't connect the dots. That would be hyperbole.


GW did the thing once and pulled out from doing it with almost no real pressure against them.
That doesn't sound like the actions of a company who want to do that, or who are planning to do it again. It sounds the exact opposite.

Again if GW had done this to multiple youtubers; if they'd required a huge amount of pushback to change their choice; if they'd put up a fight to defend their choice and if they'd been doing it over and over then yes we'd have a problem.

But we don't have that, we have one action that has been resolved for the good of the community. And without any real fight or battle or protest or anything



Again, thus far with all these copyright strikes, esp against video content, the only actual full on loss we've had was one guy being scared off the entire 40K animation concept by FANS not by GW.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 23:19:51


Post by: Mentlegen324


caladancid wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
caladancid wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
I just don't understand the inability to parse this as potentially a mistake or accident.

I don't know how these forms are completed or applied. If you copy and paste the url of the video or apply it to an open tab, of course it is possible to insert the wrong url by accident.

To be a mistake, if it's some poor soul tired and with a quota and stack of a few hundred videos to plough through. They either don't fully understand what they're doing, or make an error of judgement on the grounds of what they see. It could be a training error.

Human error is always a risk and I don't think branding them with aims of abusing a system to deprive people of income, or only changing tact as a part of a PR backlash is fair here.

If it happens repeatedly, sure, but as a one off? Likely some tired admin guy who gets a slap on the wrist and feels bad for a week or two.

.
Games Workshop- Changes their IP policies.



They didn't, actually. The claim of them changing their IP rules to not allow animations that keeps being touted is hyperbole, as the IP rules that have been in place for at least have a decade also didn't allow animations and similar such things. It's not a new rule.

They updated the guidelines to shorten it all and re-word parts, but beyond those wording changes what the guidelines cover is the same with the updated guidelines as it was before.


They did change the guidelines. You can call it updating, but it was a change- that led to different enforcement than was taking place before the change/updating.

I feel like maybe you wrote this without looking at it, and then read it and came back and made edits.


No, what the rules actually cover was not changed with the updated guidelines.

Licensing

If you think you have a winning idea and want to make a video game, an app, some merchandise, a movie or anything else that you will be distributing (either for free or at a cost) using Games Workshop’s IP then you need permission in the form of a license from Games Workshop.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 23:23:35


Post by: yukishiro1


We don't know who else they may have done it to; it's speculation to suggest Midwinter was the only one, just like it's speculation to suggest he wasn't. And it hasn't been resolved for the good of the community, GW got challenged for breaking the law (yes, it violates the law to submit a false DMCA claim) and backed off with a vague excuse about "an error." We can speculate about its motives for breaking the law in the first place, but the fact that it backed off doesn't mean the action has been " resolved for the good of the community," any more than it's " resolved for the good of the community" when someone falsely arrested is released without any real admission of wrongdoing. The status quo has been restored after GW did some damage to it for no good reason, but that doesn't mean GW did something good, it just means they, belatedly, backed off on something bad.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 23:24:14


Post by: Flipsiders


yukishiro1 wrote:
They only retracted it after Midwinter protested it, and after it became a huge PR black eye. Even after all that, it was only retracted based on his challenge, it's not like they even did it on their own initiative once they realized what a snafu it was.

It's not possible it was a genuine mistake in the sense that they didn't intend to strike him. It's not possible to accidentally manually copyright strike someone on youtube. It's not like you can just get fat fingers and oops, you hit Midwinter by mistake instead of some other youtuber. The only sense in which it could be an "error" is in the sense that it was legally unjustified. In other words, GW abused the Youtube copyright strike process and is now trying to spin that as just an "error."


I wouldn't be surprised if GW was using the old "kill them all and let God sort them out" strategy when it comes to WH+ content. They clearly highly value the service right now, and it would make sense if there was some GW intern tasked with flagging every YouTube video with WH+ stuff in it, then wait for the non-infringing videos to fight the claim themselves. It's a lot less work than GW having to decide for themselves whether every single video on YouTube with WH+ stuff falls under fair use or not.

Obviously if GW actually is doing that it's a pretty gakky move, but it's an equally expected one.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/04 23:56:44


Post by: yukishiro1


If they had been striking everyone we'd know about it by now, Midwinter wouldn't have been the only big content producer to raise a stink about it.

Honestly, I think the most plausible theory is that it was done by someone who just has no idea what copyright does and doesn't protect. The difference between Midwinter's video and the other high profile reviewers is that it does contain snippets of the actual animations, which the other reviews (I only looked briefly) don't seem to. We know from past evidence that at least some people at GW in positions of power really have no clue what IP laws are at all, and we also know they're super disorganized as a company. I suspect someone without a clue about IP authorized the DMCA takedown because "it must violate copyright to show the animations we strong-armed people into handing over to us!" only to have a lawyer approach them a few days later and be like "uh no, we need to back down on this one." Or even just some intern who was given faulty, incomplete training materials that didn't have anything on fair use for purposes of review who found a video with actual animations in it, and then some lazy or overworked supervisor who just ok'd sending in the claim it without really looking at it.

The other plausible possibility in my mind is that the part about their music being eerily similar to his may have angered someone at the company who saw it as an accusation of IP theft, then went after the video because of it.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 00:51:02


Post by: Overread


yukishiro1 wrote:
We don't know who else they may have done it to; it's speculation to suggest Midwinter was the only one, just like it's speculation to suggest he wasn't. And it hasn't been resolved for the good of the community, GW got challenged for breaking the law (yes, it violates the law to submit a false DMCA claim) and backed off with a vague excuse about "an error." We can speculate about its motives for breaking the law in the first place, but the fact that it backed off doesn't mean the action has been " resolved for the good of the community," any more than it's " resolved for the good of the community" when someone falsely arrested is released without any real admission of wrongdoing. The status quo has been restored after GW did some damage to it for no good reason, but that doesn't mean GW did something good, it just means they, belatedly, backed off on something bad.


What exactly do you want GW to do though? They filed a false claim - acknowledged it and removed the claim.
All done within Youtube's internal system.
There isn't really any more recourse for GW to do anything beyond that unless the person claimed against feels a need to take it to the next level and take them to court (small claims or such).


Other than that what else do you want GW to do? We can assume that internally they don't want their system to fail so they'll have taken discipline/retraining on the person who issued the false claim; we might assume that youtube has means to track false claims from specific groups and that GW now has 1 black mark on their name. Ergo that they can't just send out false claims all over the place and see what sticks.*


*even big hollywood studios have done that and been told off by youtube. In their time it was also the irony that it was often their legal wing taking down their marketing wings actual ads so it wasn't just false claims but claims against their own firm.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 01:03:12


Post by: Gert


 Overread wrote:
What exactly do you want GW to do though?

^This.
GW worked within YouTube's system and corrected the mistake, fairly quickly might I add, considering how bad YT is with resolving things usually.
Do people want a public apology? If so what purpose does that serve?
In terms of companies doing bad things we're talking in the realms of "GW pulled another kid's hair in the playground".


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 01:13:18


Post by: yukishiro1


 Gert wrote:

In terms of companies doing bad things we're talking in the realms of "GW pulled another kid's hair in the playground".


No, that's exactly what is wrong about your point of view and exactly what I am reacting to. It is *not* "GW pulled another kid's hair in the playground." It's "GW threatened someone's job for no good reason." Filing a false copyright infringement complaint is a serious thing. That they backed off after huge backlash should not make us overlook that they wrongly attempted to deprive someone of the income from their job. That's a big deal. Brushing it off as rough-housing on the playground is totally irresponsible and shows a real lack of understanding of the gravity of the situation.

What I hope GW does is that it doesn't treat the matter the way you have, and that it appreciates the gravity of what it did. But I don't honestly have any confidence they don't see it the same way you do, as no big deal. Wrongfully demonetizing someone is an extremely serious thing, and taking steps to deprive someone of the income from their job should only be done when the rights holder is certain their claim is valid. GW failed miserably here to behave in an even vaguely responsible manner, and I hope they recognize that and seriously reorganize the way they handle copyright infringement claims so it can't happen again, because it simply isn't good enough.






Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 01:15:41


Post by: GoldenHorde


 Gert wrote:
 Overread wrote:
What exactly do you want GW to do though?

^This.
GW worked within YouTube's system and corrected the mistake, fairly quickly might I add, considering how bad YT is with resolving things usually.
Do people want a public apology? If so what purpose does that serve?


Establishing goodwill and respect to the community. Also most difficult for many on this forum to parse; its just the right thing to do and basic PR that GW has no idea about

Great logic right there Gert, I punched you in the face and then told the principal of the school I had mistaken you for another kid. I guess it makes it hunky dory, right?.





Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 01:20:06


Post by: Overread


yukishiro1 wrote:
 Gert wrote:

In terms of companies doing bad things we're talking in the realms of "GW pulled another kid's hair in the playground".


No, that's exactly what is wrong about your point of view and exactly what I am reacting to. It is *not* "GW pulled another kid's hair in the playground." It's "GW threatened someone's job for no good reason." Filing a false copyright infringement complaint is a serious thing. That they backed off after huge backlash should not make us overlook that they wrongly attempted to deprive someone of the income from their job. That's a big deal. Brushing it off as rough-housing on the playground is totally irresponsible and shows a real lack of understanding of the gravity of the situation.

What I hope GW does is that it doesn't treat the matter the way you have, and that it appreciates the gravity of what it did. But I don't honestly have any confidence they don't see it the same way you do, as no big deal. Wrongfully demonetizing someone is an extremely serious thing, and it should only be done when the rights holder is absolutely sure their claim is valid. GW failed miserably here, and I hope they recognize that and seriously reorganize the way they handle copyright infringement claims so it can't happen again, because it simply isn't good enough.


But what exactly does that MEAN. What action do you want GW to perform?
I'm sure GW take it seriously, I mean they did they resolved the matter. They didn't push back, or argue for months or contest or anything. They acknowledged the error and resolved it. That is taking it seriously.

I'm just not sure what you're really after for GW to do other than not make mistakes, which I'm sure GW doesn't want to do in the first place since, as noted, I'm sure youtube monitors false/contested claims and would hinder GW's ability to issue claims in the future if GW were issuing false/unjustified claims.


I totally get that you're angry it happened and that it shouldn't happen, but in the end it did happen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Gert wrote:
 Overread wrote:
What exactly do you want GW to do though?

^This.
GW worked within YouTube's system and corrected the mistake, fairly quickly might I add, considering how bad YT is with resolving things usually.
Do people want a public apology? If so what purpose does that serve?


Establishing goodwill and respect to the community. Also most difficult for many on this forum to parse; its just the right thing to do

Great logic right there Gert, I punched you in the face and then told the principal of the school I had mistaken you for another kid. I guess it makes it hunky dory.


No, because punching any kid in the face is wrong.

Also from what I can tell "good will" in the community often translates to many as "lower prices"


I would note that in the past GW HAS done good will things. I recall they gave compensation to gamers who lost models/collections in some fires in the USA.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/16/dec-16-fire-relief-the-local-warhammer-community-steps-ingw-homepage-post-2/


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 01:33:56


Post by: yukishiro1


 Overread wrote:

But what exactly does that MEAN. What action do you want GW to perform?
I'm sure GW take it seriously, I mean they did they resolved the matter. They didn't push back, or argue for months or contest or anything. They acknowledged the error and resolved it. That is taking it seriously.

I'm just not sure what you're really after for GW to do other than not make mistakes, which I'm sure GW doesn't want to do in the first place since, as noted, I'm sure youtube monitors false/contested claims and would hinder GW's ability to issue claims in the future if GW were issuing false/unjustified claims.

I totally get that you're angry it happened and that it shouldn't happen, but in the end it did happen.
/


What should anyone do when they screw up? Make sure they don't screw up again, make the person whole, apologize to everybody they let down, realize that people are going to hold it against them and not be surprised that they'll have to earn the trust back that they squandered, etc.

The onus should be on GW to demonstrate to us that it recognizes what it did and will take steps to make sure it can't happen again. The onus isn't on everyone else to just accept the "this was an error" and draw a line under it.

You're "sure" of a lot of things I see no reason to be sure of based on GW's actions here and in the past. I'm sure I would be fine with what happened if I was also sure that GW is a good, responsible actor and that this somehow "just happened" to them without it really being their fault. But I'm not sure of that at all. And I'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt after they did something really unprofessional.

But honestly my problem isn't really with you or even necessarily with GW's handling of the fallout, it's with the people in this thread who have repeatedly acted like what happened was no big deal, at worst just a "slap on the wrist" for some supposedly rogue employee. I hope you are right that GW doesn't share their point of view.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 01:34:28


Post by: GoldenHorde


 Overread wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 GoldenHorde wrote:
 Gert wrote:
 Overread wrote:
What exactly do you want GW to do though?

^This.
GW worked within YouTube's system and corrected the mistake, fairly quickly might I add, considering how bad YT is with resolving things usually.
Do people want a public apology? If so what purpose does that serve?


Establishing goodwill and respect to the community. Also most difficult for many on this forum to parse; its just the right thing to do

Great logic right there Gert, I punched you in the face and then told the principal of the school I had mistaken you for another kid. I guess it makes it hunky dory.


No, because punching any kid in the face is wrong.

Also from what I can tell "good will" in the community often translates to many as "lower prices"


I would note that in the past GW HAS done good will things. I recall they gave compensation to gamers who lost models/collections in some fires in the USA.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/16/dec-16-fire-relief-the-local-warhammer-community-steps-ingw-homepage-post-2/


I don't think you understand how trust works.

We're talking about a company that cultivated an anti consumer stance for years; do you not remember when posting point values on forums was feared wholesale?

They still need to build their trust brick by brick. There's decades of abuse they've stacked onto consumers. The recent IP policy signals a return to their belligerent stupidity

People don't care that you're in a group that gives them a pass go collect $200


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Overread wrote:


GW did the thing once and pulled out from doing it with almost no real pressure against them.
That doesn't sound like the actions of a company who want to do that, or who are planning to do it again. It sounds the exact opposite.


Sounds like inept belligerence to me

Oh don't blame them because they might be hiring someone with no knowledge of IP to strike people on IP...

You guys make me laugh


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 02:44:33


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I've actually never changed my avatar; when I joined it was a normal pig but over time the foul energies of the ruinous internet have corrupted the image much as they have done to my soul.
What are you talking about? I look at your avatar and all I see is a Porsche.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 02:47:05


Post by: caladancid


 Overread wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
 Gert wrote:

In terms of companies doing bad things we're talking in the realms of "GW pulled another kid's hair in the playground".


No, that's exactly what is wrong about your point of view and exactly what I am reacting to. It is *not* "GW pulled another kid's hair in the playground." It's "GW threatened someone's job for no good reason." Filing a false copyright infringement complaint is a serious thing. That they backed off after huge backlash should not make us overlook that they wrongly attempted to deprive someone of the income from their job. That's a big deal. Brushing it off as rough-housing on the playground is totally irresponsible and shows a real lack of understanding of the gravity of the situation.

What I hope GW does is that it doesn't treat the matter the way you have, and that it appreciates the gravity of what it did. But I don't honestly have any confidence they don't see it the same way you do, as no big deal. Wrongfully demonetizing someone is an extremely serious thing, and it should only be done when the rights holder is absolutely sure their claim is valid. GW failed miserably here, and I hope they recognize that and seriously reorganize the way they handle copyright infringement claims so it can't happen again, because it simply isn't good enough.


But what exactly does that MEAN. What action do you want GW to perform?
I'm sure GW take it seriously, I mean they did they resolved the matter. They didn't push back, or argue for months or contest or anything. They acknowledged the error and resolved it. That is taking it seriously.

I'm just not sure what you're really after for GW to do other than not make mistakes, which I'm sure GW doesn't want to do in the first place since, as noted, I'm sure youtube monitors false/contested claims and would hinder GW's ability to issue claims in the future if GW were issuing false/unjustified claims.


I totally get that you're angry it happened and that it shouldn't happen, but in the end it did happen.


I sort of wonder what people like this are like in real life? Because I'm honestly struggling to understand this attitude. If someone does something wrong, usually society expects an apology even if just to the person who was wronged. Taking the punching a kid on the playground analogy, would these same people praise a bully for not punching someone MORE?

Yet here, we have a number of people (who started off saying GW did nothing wrong because it was automated, don't forget that part) who seem to want us to praise GW for not making it worse. Just that. When they did something wrong and got caught, they stopped doing wrong. And yet that is praiseworthy? Huh?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 02:47:55


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Gert wrote:
Maybe I'm just sick of the constant aggro and negativity, as well as the attempts to maintain the momentum of said aggro and negativity.
Maybe the aggro was the posts we made along the way?

What I mean by that is, if we look at your posts in the thread, it has been a litany of "This isn't a big deal!" or "This isn't actually a problem!" from the very start. You've been dismissive of every single discussion point that has been brought up, and you really wonder why people might get a bit 'aggro' because of that?

It think it would be best not to act as if you are somehow sitting in the eye of a raging storm, constantly shrugging your shoulders and going "I just don't know why people seem so angry!" and acting as if you're not part of the maelstrom itself.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 06:53:54


Post by: NinthMusketeer


The viewpoint I really want to push back on is that something has changed--I do not at all mean to say GW is blameless, I mean to say GW is the same level of corporate dickishness it has been for some time. Which is in turn the same level that corporations in general have been for some time.

Like, corporate entities do crappy things. They always have. By all means discuss the latest crappy thing but let's not pretend this is any less predictable than new Space Marine models every edition. Or that it represents some new low. It feels like some people are acting like this one terd is a big deal when we've been swimming it in since before we were born.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I've actually never changed my avatar; when I joined it was a normal pig but over time the foul energies of the ruinous internet have corrupted the image much as they have done to my soul.
What are you talking about? I look at your avatar and all I see is a Porsche.
Being made of excellent best quality high superior Citadel(tm) Finecast(tm) it is naturally at a similar level of value


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 08:54:43


Post by: Dudeface


yukishiro1 wrote:
 Overread wrote:

But what exactly does that MEAN. What action do you want GW to perform?
I'm sure GW take it seriously, I mean they did they resolved the matter. They didn't push back, or argue for months or contest or anything. They acknowledged the error and resolved it. That is taking it seriously.

I'm just not sure what you're really after for GW to do other than not make mistakes, which I'm sure GW doesn't want to do in the first place since, as noted, I'm sure youtube monitors false/contested claims and would hinder GW's ability to issue claims in the future if GW were issuing false/unjustified claims.

I totally get that you're angry it happened and that it shouldn't happen, but in the end it did happen.
/


What should anyone do when they screw up? Make sure they don't screw up again, make the person whole, apologize to everybody they let down, realize that people are going to hold it against them and not be surprised that they'll have to earn the trust back that they squandered, etc.

The onus should be on GW to demonstrate to us that it recognizes what it did and will take steps to make sure it can't happen again. The onus isn't on everyone else to just accept the "this was an error" and draw a line under it.

You're "sure" of a lot of things I see no reason to be sure of based on GW's actions here and in the past. I'm sure I would be fine with what happened if I was also sure that GW is a good, responsible actor and that this somehow "just happened" to them without it really being their fault. But I'm not sure of that at all. And I'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt after they did something really unprofessional.

But honestly my problem isn't really with you or even necessarily with GW's handling of the fallout, it's with the people in this thread who have repeatedly acted like what happened was no big deal, at worst just a "slap on the wrist" for some supposedly rogue employee. I hope you are right that GW doesn't share their point of view.


No, it isn't. The onus is on GW to redact their application, apologise and if needs be compensate MWM. The Royal "us" need nothing proving to us.

They've done nothing to a wider community, they impacted 1 persons singular piece of content.

Yes they did wrong but its nothing to do with anyone in here, nobody in this thread (Unless Guy is here) has been impacted and the frankly ridiculous levels of demands for public explanations and accusations of witch-hunts are out of line.

Yes I stated a GW employee will get a slap on the wrist and carry on. They're not going to be marched outside warhammer world making a public apology on YouTube.

All the claims about it impacting someone's livelihood? Well maybe that's why they're clamping down on IP infringement, because there's a large slew of people using their livelihood for personal profit. Or directly copying their products with 3d printers and bragging about not paying the creators.

Of course the online community simply praises the creativity and resourcefulness of ripping off a GW mini, but when GW make a small mistake that they rectify privately in short notice, ofc they need to be strung up.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 09:16:49


Post by: Sunny Side Up


People with genuine creativity don't need to parasite off GW's (or anyone's) IP to make a living on YouTube, sculpting miniatures, whatever.



Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 09:23:35


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Now content creators on YouTube are "parasites" are they?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 09:27:13


Post by: Albertorius


Sunny Side Up wrote:
People with genuine creativity don't need to parasite off GW's (or anyone's) IP to make a living on YouTube, sculpting miniatures, whatever.


...we're speaking about GW and "not parasiting IP" on the same sentence? Well, that's a take.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 09:41:59


Post by: Not Online!!!


No, GW wouldn't do such a thing as "faultily" manually claim reviews and such...no that wouldn't happen they said.

They would never attempt to do so and controll the narrative sourounding their product by expanding their policy from animations to reviews..

We should all have trust in the new GW with PR and "interaction"
________________________________

Why yes, I AM Bitter about GW.
And yes I also fall into the category of people that gave GW the benefit of the boubt at the start of 8th edition and came back.
I fell for the sweet sireen song of Indices, of Chapter Approved and pts updates.

Unlike many others though i also got my reality check quite a bit earlier, especially in regards to legends. and the supposed interaction that GW now has with its community.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 09:43:07


Post by: NAVARRO


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Gert wrote:
Maybe I'm just sick of the constant aggro and negativity, as well as the attempts to maintain the momentum of said aggro and negativity.
Maybe the aggro was the posts we made along the way?

What I mean by that is, if we look at your posts in the thread, it has been a litany of "This isn't a big deal!" or "This isn't actually a problem!" from the very start. You've been dismissive of every single discussion point that has been brought up, and you really wonder why people might get a bit 'aggro' because of that?

It think it would be best not to act as if you are somehow sitting in the eye of a raging storm, constantly shrugging your shoulders and going "I just don't know why people seem so angry!" and acting as if you're not part of the maelstrom itself.


How negative of you please stop that

As for the parasites, oh my... The only parasite is GW freaking IP paranoia imposed and bombarded onto everyone! Thats the big parasite in the room and the hobby and industry does NOT need that.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 09:49:24


Post by: Dudeface


Not Online!!! wrote:
No, GW wouldn't do such a thing as "faultily" manually claim reviews and such...no that wouldn't happen they said.

They would never attempt to do so and controll the narrative sourounding their product by expanding their policy from animations to reviews..

We should all have trust in the new GW with PR and "interaction"
________________________________

Why yes, I AM Bitter about GW.
And yes I also fall into the category of people that gave GW the benefit of the boubt at the start of 8th edition and came back.
I fell for the sweet sireen song of Indices, of Chapter Approved and pts updates.

Unlike many others though i also got my reality check quite a bit earlier, especially in regards to legends. and the supposed interaction that GW now has with its community.


Of course they're going to make incorrect or mistaken claims, they're evidently trying to get better at this process and as long as a human is sat at the wheel there will be a mistake. All GW can do it mitigate the risk and impact of the mistake.

The review is still up and viewable, no other reviews have been impacted I'm aware of, infact very little to no content has been directly taken down without some behind the scenes employment offer as far as I'm aware.

Again, yes they do dumb things and have some bad practices. But so far what are the casualties of the IP changes that everyone is gaking the bed over?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 09:51:50


Post by: GoldenHorde


Sunny Side Up wrote:
People with genuine creativity don't need to parasite off GW's (or anyone's) IP to make a living on YouTube, sculpting miniatures, whatever.



Yeah because GW covers everything those whopping TWO....yes folks count that TWO WHOLE animated series on warhammer plus.

lol all those rules and weapon options from 40k removed because GW CBF to make the parts....haha




You remind me of the fearmongering and toxic mentality this utterly moronic scare campaign about aftermarket wiper blades that we had in Australia....lol







Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 10:05:21


Post by: Not Online!!!


Dudeface wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
No, GW wouldn't do such a thing as "faultily" manually claim reviews and such...no that wouldn't happen they said.

They would never attempt to do so and controll the narrative sourounding their product by expanding their policy from animations to reviews..

We should all have trust in the new GW with PR and "interaction"
________________________________

Why yes, I AM Bitter about GW.
And yes I also fall into the category of people that gave GW the benefit of the boubt at the start of 8th edition and came back.
I fell for the sweet sireen song of Indices, of Chapter Approved and pts updates.

Unlike many others though i also got my reality check quite a bit earlier, especially in regards to legends. and the supposed interaction that GW now has with its community.


Of course they're going to make incorrect or mistaken claims, they're evidently trying to get better at this process and as long as a human is sat at the wheel there will be a mistake. All GW can do it mitigate the risk and impact of the mistake.

The review is still up and viewable, no other reviews have been impacted I'm aware of, infact very little to no content has been directly taken down without some behind the scenes employment offer as far as I'm aware.

Again, yes they do dumb things and have some bad practices. But so far what are the casualties of the IP changes that everyone is gaking the bed over?


You know what. Nintendo has a similar bad habit, regularly demonitising and taking down reviews and letsplays, both of which are protected by fair use. Attacking livelyhoods directly.

You know however unlike GW nintendo delievers acceptable product, and is willing to forgoe boni for their CEO to keep workers employed.

Oh and fun fact, the initial release time frame is the time were a video makes the most views and pays the most. So no it still was a quite sever impact due to the demonetisation of GW which was just an "accident".


So yes i think when we give Nintendo gak for their nonsenseical take torwards Youtube and reviews with their medieval practices i think we can give GW more than double the gak for failing in both regards.

And make no mistake GW IS failing in both regards its community, because everything NON SM has some serious issue and people like me which collected rarities / FW armies have all the reason to tell GW to feth off with its gakky practices which it has imported from the mobile gaming and video gaming industries like pre order DLC type of cut content and complete ignorance of some ranges or the artificial scarcity of some parts like the chain cannon.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 10:10:15


Post by: BrianDavion


Not Online!!! wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
No, GW wouldn't do such a thing as "faultily" manually claim reviews and such...no that wouldn't happen they said.

They would never attempt to do so and controll the narrative sourounding their product by expanding their policy from animations to reviews..

We should all have trust in the new GW with PR and "interaction"
________________________________

Why yes, I AM Bitter about GW.
And yes I also fall into the category of people that gave GW the benefit of the boubt at the start of 8th edition and came back.
I fell for the sweet sireen song of Indices, of Chapter Approved and pts updates.

Unlike many others though i also got my reality check quite a bit earlier, especially in regards to legends. and the supposed interaction that GW now has with its community.


Of course they're going to make incorrect or mistaken claims, they're evidently trying to get better at this process and as long as a human is sat at the wheel there will be a mistake. All GW can do it mitigate the risk and impact of the mistake.

The review is still up and viewable, no other reviews have been impacted I'm aware of, infact very little to no content has been directly taken down without some behind the scenes employment offer as far as I'm aware.

Again, yes they do dumb things and have some bad practices. But so far what are the casualties of the IP changes that everyone is gaking the bed over?


You know what. Nintendo has a similar bad habit, regularly demonitising and taking down reviews and letsplays, both of which are protected by fair use. Attacking livelyhoods directly.

You know however unlike GW nintendo delievers acceptable product, and is willing to forgoe boni for their CEO to keep workers employed.

Oh and fun fact, the initial release time frame is the time were a video makes the most views and pays the most. So no it still was a quite sever impact due to the demonetisation of GW which was just an "accident".


So yes i think when we give Nintendo gak for their nonsenseical take torwards Youtube and reviews with their medieval practices i think we can give GW more than double the gak for failing in both regards.

And make no mistake GW IS failing in both regards its community, because everything NON SM has some serious issue and people like me which collected rarities / FW armies have all the reason to tell GW to feth off with its gakky practices which it has imported from the mobile gaming and video gaming industries like pre order DLC type of cut content and complete ignorance of some ranges or the artificial scarcity of some parts like the chain cannon.


ues GW is such an evil company... incidently, how dare they not put out stuff you want to buy....


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 10:13:28


Post by: Not Online!!!


BrianDavion wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
No, GW wouldn't do such a thing as "faultily" manually claim reviews and such...no that wouldn't happen they said.

They would never attempt to do so and controll the narrative sourounding their product by expanding their policy from animations to reviews..

We should all have trust in the new GW with PR and "interaction"
________________________________

Why yes, I AM Bitter about GW.
And yes I also fall into the category of people that gave GW the benefit of the boubt at the start of 8th edition and came back.
I fell for the sweet sireen song of Indices, of Chapter Approved and pts updates.

Unlike many others though i also got my reality check quite a bit earlier, especially in regards to legends. and the supposed interaction that GW now has with its community.


Of course they're going to make incorrect or mistaken claims, they're evidently trying to get better at this process and as long as a human is sat at the wheel there will be a mistake. All GW can do it mitigate the risk and impact of the mistake.

The review is still up and viewable, no other reviews have been impacted I'm aware of, infact very little to no content has been directly taken down without some behind the scenes employment offer as far as I'm aware.

Again, yes they do dumb things and have some bad practices. But so far what are the casualties of the IP changes that everyone is gaking the bed over?


You know what. Nintendo has a similar bad habit, regularly demonitising and taking down reviews and letsplays, both of which are protected by fair use. Attacking livelyhoods directly.

You know however unlike GW nintendo delievers acceptable product, and is willing to forgoe boni for their CEO to keep workers employed.

Oh and fun fact, the initial release time frame is the time were a video makes the most views and pays the most. So no it still was a quite sever impact due to the demonetisation of GW which was just an "accident".


So yes i think when we give Nintendo gak for their nonsenseical take torwards Youtube and reviews with their medieval practices i think we can give GW more than double the gak for failing in both regards.

And make no mistake GW IS failing in both regards its community, because everything NON SM has some serious issue and people like me which collected rarities / FW armies have all the reason to tell GW to feth off with its gakky practices which it has imported from the mobile gaming and video gaming industries like pre order DLC type of cut content and complete ignorance of some ranges or the artificial scarcity of some parts like the chain cannon.


ues GW is such an evil company... incidently, how dare they not put out stuff you want to buy....

Stop strawmanning.

This was entirely about their bad practices. Which you can't argue with especially in regards to the cut content type nice add on rulessets.
Or the blatantly hilarious kit design.
Or the completly lopsided release cycles.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 10:13:36


Post by: NAVARRO


Dudeface wrote:
Snip

But so far what are the casualties of the IP changes that everyone is gaking the bed over?


Everyone that is in the hobby for hobby sake dont need GW IP battles, these in the past killed forums, debates and every miniature producer was tiptoeing afraid to create something that for some bizarre reason GW would feel inclined to nuke. Stores bullied not to carry images, court cases and so on and on and on. Its a big list.

GW is back to that now and taking a step further, by inviting animators to stop and now hitting a review channel. They are now looking at reviews too.

So yes if your happy to have forums, YouTube and the community hold hostage of these types of debates and "legal" actions and in fear then be my guest.

That is the big loss, when the big fish in the pound sets a precedent splash of IP deluded paranoia and toxicity, the ripples will be noticed... even deleting their past posts on their site when they do not fulfil their promises. Come on.

I believe we just want fun minis and games right? I do! So GW can keep their dark agenda away from public...


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 10:15:17


Post by: Dudeface


Not Online!!! wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
No, GW wouldn't do such a thing as "faultily" manually claim reviews and such...no that wouldn't happen they said.

They would never attempt to do so and controll the narrative sourounding their product by expanding their policy from animations to reviews..

We should all have trust in the new GW with PR and "interaction"
________________________________

Why yes, I AM Bitter about GW.
And yes I also fall into the category of people that gave GW the benefit of the boubt at the start of 8th edition and came back.
I fell for the sweet sireen song of Indices, of Chapter Approved and pts updates.

Unlike many others though i also got my reality check quite a bit earlier, especially in regards to legends. and the supposed interaction that GW now has with its community.


Of course they're going to make incorrect or mistaken claims, they're evidently trying to get better at this process and as long as a human is sat at the wheel there will be a mistake. All GW can do it mitigate the risk and impact of the mistake.

The review is still up and viewable, no other reviews have been impacted I'm aware of, infact very little to no content has been directly taken down without some behind the scenes employment offer as far as I'm aware.

Again, yes they do dumb things and have some bad practices. But so far what are the casualties of the IP changes that everyone is gaking the bed over?


You know what. Nintendo has a similar bad habit, regularly demonitising and taking down reviews and letsplays, both of which are protected by fair use. Attacking livelyhoods directly.

You know however unlike GW nintendo delievers acceptable product, and is willing to forgoe boni for their CEO to keep workers employed.

Oh and fun fact, the initial release time frame is the time were a video makes the most views and pays the most. So no it still was a quite sever impact due to the demonetisation of GW which was just an "accident".


So yes i think when we give Nintendo gak for their nonsenseical take torwards Youtube and reviews with their medieval practices i think we can give GW more than double the gak for failing in both regards.

And make no mistake GW IS failing in both regards its community, because everything NON SM has some serious issue and people like me which collected rarities / FW armies have all the reason to tell GW to feth off with its gakky practices which it has imported from the mobile gaming and video gaming industries like pre order DLC type of cut content and complete ignorance of some ranges or the artificial scarcity of some parts like the chain cannon.


You do know they contested the monetisation of the video, it never went down and the funds were in a hold account by youtube so were returned in full right? Never mind the extra views and donations MWM received off the back of this?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 10:20:20


Post by: Not Online!!!


Except that GW gave in only AFTERWARDS it made waves.
What about smaller creators that can't make such waves?
feth em? Because remember the contestation goes back to the companies leeway, thanks to YouTubes gakky system.

And because they gave in afterwards we should congratulate them? Trust them?

The same company that has also now entered the mobile gaming plattform with 3 diffrent but really same game titles that are blatant p2w cashgrabs?
The same company that basically has turned its rules model for a miniature wargaming game into a cut content DLC system? That monetises what is in essence a balance patch? Not even EA gets away with such a move and here we are expected to do so?


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 10:26:24


Post by: Gert


To make a point here, how do you know GW Legal acted because people "made waves'?
The whole situation was resolved in 2 days and the only evidence you have for your theory is that GW Legal removed the claim and sent an apology email after people posted online, which is entirely circumstantial.
The Legal Team could have already known before seeing the "waves" and was working to resolve it.
Maybe until its confirmed, people should stop pretending like "We the People" forced GW to rescind an erroneous revenue claim.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 10:36:00


Post by: Not Online!!!


 Gert wrote:
To make a point here, how do you know GW Legal acted because people "made waves'?
The whole situation was resolved in 2 days and the only evidence you have for your theory is that GW Legal removed the claim and sent an apology email after people posted online, which is entirely circumstantial.
The Legal Team could have already known before seeing the "waves" and was working to resolve it.
Maybe until its confirmed, people should stop pretending like "We the People" forced GW to rescind an erroneous revenue claim.


Except that song and Dance happens all the time with Games reviewers.
And other reviewers so no , i am not conviced that i shouldn't draw parallels, especially by a company with a history of Bad faith acting .


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 10:53:10


Post by: jeff white


Wow. I have not seen a thread blow up so fast on dakka in a long while... GW hitting some nerves.

I do not understand how a company which depends on the good will of its fan base for sales and subscriptions in good faith for IOUs like Warhammer+ (as many subscribers seem to be paying in advance for presumably forthcoming content rather than for what is provided in the streaming service at present) can both raise prices so high as to push many people to 3d print or order resin reproductions rather than pay those prices and use some (most? a lot? I mean, "legal" ain't cheap!) of those profits to discourage those same people from staying involved, at all.

Has GW forgotten Fafrd and the Grey Mouser, completely? Conan? Any and every elf and myth of goblins and trolls that belonged to humanity post script? What are they going to do, sue history for infringement, now? 1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual... yikes.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 11:12:11


Post by: Arbitrator


Sunny Side Up wrote:
People with genuine creativity don't need to parasite off GW's (or anyone's) IP to make a living on YouTube, sculpting miniatures, whatever.


You know I really do wonder sometimes if GW has people paid to astroturf in forum and social media communities.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 11:30:02


Post by: Lord Damocles


'There was nothing wrong with the Spots the Space Marine incident.'

- Some in this thread, apparently


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 11:36:08


Post by: Cronch


 Arbitrator wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
People with genuine creativity don't need to parasite off GW's (or anyone's) IP to make a living on YouTube, sculpting miniatures, whatever.


You know I really do wonder sometimes if GW has people paid to astroturf in forum and social media communities.

GW is too cheap to pay it's devs well, it's just people who grafted corporate product as personality prosthetic.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 11:40:51


Post by: Albertorius


Dudeface wrote:
Of course they're going to make incorrect or mistaken claims, they're evidently trying to get better at this process and as long as a human is sat at the wheel there will be a mistake. All GW can do it mitigate the risk and impact of the mistake.

I think it's a matter of perspective. To you, they're making incorrect or mistaken claims. To me, they're trying to see just how far they can push.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
Yes GW is such an evil company... incidently, how dare they not put out stuff you want to buy....

All corporations are evil by default, if you adscribe to them human values.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 11:48:09


Post by: lost_lilliputian


Hmm


Sorry, I tried to post a meme about pushing it.

Also a 2nd link to someone on twitter saying they got a request to remove some homemade addition to a gw game. Strange


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 11:50:28


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Yeah 'cause we're going to click on some random link like that.

Tell us what it is.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 11:50:58


Post by: Albertorius


Yeah... not going to click on that without knowing what that is.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 11:54:55


Post by: lost_lilliputian


Anyway for anyone in Aus enjoy what's left of Fathers Day. It's been a blast reading the different opinions on here


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 11:56:04


Post by: Dudeface


 Albertorius wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Of course they're going to make incorrect or mistaken claims, they're evidently trying to get better at this process and as long as a human is sat at the wheel there will be a mistake. All GW can do it mitigate the risk and impact of the mistake.

I think it's a matter of perspective. To you, they're making incorrect or mistaken claims. To me, they're trying to see just how far they can push.


Good, so you're saying you believe that GW is incapable of making a mistake or incorrectly understanding legal terms, boundaries and conditions. Therefore are 100% competent and capable as a legal team, as no action is being made without intent?

Because that's a lofty claim if so, I mean they really showed people who was boss making 1 guy get a 2 day late payment on 1 video.


Games Workshop Hiring Infringement Assistants @ 2021/09/05 11:58:45


Post by: endlesswaltz123


Some people need to learn that correlation does not equal causation.

The MWM thing making waves over reddit may not have been the reason for GW backing down... Maybe GW reviewed the appeal and realised one person had been overzealous and decided to do the right thing. Mistakes happen, and I'm genuinely getting bored of continuing witch hunts on people who apologise and reverse their decisions, otherwise lock up and cancel everyone on the planet, not one of us is perfect.

GW DID THE RIGHT THING IN THE END, THIS IS PROGRESS, TAKE THE PROGRESS.

Alternatively, there are actual and severe issues within society globally that could use people such as yourselves that want to be angry and enforce change.... That will actually have a significant impact, and do some good.