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Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 00:01:43


Post by: flamingkillamajig


So these days most entertainment seems to be re-makes or unimaginative cash grabs that wear a mask of a once beloved franchise and have none of the creativity. We get the same series over and over again. A lot of it re-hashes the same political talking points (and probably does it poorly) without something new or fresh up to the point smashing old tropes have made newer tropes. Anything halfway decent becomes milked dry and over-saturates the market like way back when space marine shooting games with grey metal corridors were in fashion, ww2 shooters were everywhere, isekai became too over-done and other such things.

I just can't get myself excited in entertainment anymore. Oh boy another franchise that's had it's last movie 15-20 years ago and already passed its 3rd movie so will likely be absolute crap. Oh man a movie that's had like 6, 9 or more movies after the point was already hammered home and fully delivered after the first or 2nd movie.

Even the comedy feels bland and unimaginative.

-------

I keep wanting to enjoy entertainment but everything is so lacking in substance or action or comedy or anything at all that i'm getting so frustrated i might make my own Tabletop Game and see where it goes. I want it to be really unique. I just don't know if i can but i'm so bored out of my skull i might have to. Most entertainment i consume just feels so hollow, fake and dry now and then it comes with a super inflated price tag and a multi-billion dollar company on the label.

-------

I suppose one of my biggest issues is i want entertainment to entertain me. I want characters to have a sensible purpose and goals which includes the bad guys and their goals and purpose. I want new content with new ideas that people generally don't think about these days. I want emotions backed up by understandable reasons and actions and consequences that make sense for the characters in a story. If we're gonna do something in the movie or game give us a sensible reason to do it where possible. Also remember character should have more than one interest or aspect to themselves. I can understand not fleshing out side characters much but it's so crappy when even the main characters feel unrelatable, unlikeable or have as much depth as paper.

Anyway i dunno. Maybe i'm asking too much these days and i've just gotten old and bored due to over-consumption of entertainment. Perhaps both things are an issue.

What do all of you guys think? Do you agree or disagree with things i've said? Let me know.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 00:33:18


Post by: Voss


I suppose one of my biggest issues is i want entertainment to entertain me. I want characters to have a sensible purpose and goals which includes the bad guys and their goals and purpose. I want new content with new ideas that people generally don't think about these days. I want emotions backed up by understandable reasons and actions and consequences that make sense for the characters in a story. If we're gonna do something in the movie or game give us a sensible reason to do it where possible. Also remember character should have more than one interest or aspect to themselves. I can understand not fleshing out side characters much but it's so crappy when even the main characters feel unrelatable, unlikeable or have as much depth as paper.


Not going to lie, this seems to be the weirdest time in the last 50 or so years to be making this complaint.

Even children's shows today have more depth in this regard than anything produced for mainstream adult audiences in the 80s and 90s. Its very common- if you can't find _anything_ in the entire realm of entertainment, it sounds like a 'you' problem.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 00:57:48


Post by: creeping-deth87


Gonna have to echo Voss here. I feel like we're absolutely spoiled nowadays for entertainment. There's so much good stuff out there I don't have time to watch it all.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 01:39:17


Post by: Lance845


Yup. Bare minimum, Shang Chi just came out. With characters with believable motivations, incredibly well choreographed fights, good guys and bad guys with sensible goals, and pretty much everything in your paragraph about what you want.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 02:46:00


Post by: trexmeyer


When did the last epic film come out that wasn't part of an established IP? Dunkirk? And before that? There have been barely any blockbuster-level live-action films in the last decade that weren't an adaptation or part of an otherwise established IP. Theatres are dominated by MCU, DCEU, and animated films. These movies are generally servicable, but repetitive and not for everyone.

It's the same issue with television.
Star Trek: Discovery and Picard aren't as good as previous Star Trek series.
MCU series are decent, but again, not for everyone.
I can't speak to any western animation, because outside of Invincible I generally really dislike the artstyles employed.
Oh, and Invincible and The Boys aren't MCU, but they are more of the super-hero genre and some people are sick to death of that.
The Mandalorian was good, but again, it's more of a pre-existing series.

Game of Thrones was decent/good for a few years, but it's over (and ended poorly).

The only critically-acclaimed, audience loved, live-action series that I can think of (that isn't tied into a larger IP) is The Expanse, and that's another adaptation. I guess Black Mirror would count.

A24 is producing good movies at least.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 02:47:27


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Could you be experiencing burn-out or depression?


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 03:01:38


Post by: SkavenLord


Seconding the inquiry of burn-out. Maybe a break from movies and such might be helpful?

You mentioned creating your own tabletop game. Sounds like an awesome idea! Why not give it a shot and see where it spins?


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 03:50:06


Post by: Lance845


 trexmeyer wrote:
When did the last epic film come out that wasn't part of an established IP?

...

A24 is producing good movies at least.


The Green Knight would be the last film. Before that would have been Tenet? The pandemic through off a lot of things.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 04:32:44


Post by: trexmeyer


I don't know if Tenet fits the bill for an epic, but The Green Knight certainly doesn't. That's a very small scale film.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 04:37:49


Post by: Lance845


 trexmeyer wrote:
I don't know if Tenet fits the bill for an epic, but The Green Knight certainly doesn't. That's a very small scale film.
Its an epic in the very classic sense of a hero going on the Heroes Journey encountering fantastical elements like literal giants, ghosts, and an immortal knight monster man.

Epic is a genre of narrative defined by heroic or legendary adventures presented in a long format.[1][2] Originating in the form of epic poetry,[3][4] the genre also now applies to epic theatre, epic films, music, novels, stage play, television series, and video games.[4] Scholars argue that 'the epic' has long since become "disembedded" from its origins in oral poetry.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_(genre)


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 05:22:01


Post by: Ork-en Man


I recommend turning off the TV set. I went through a similar thing with TV shows and movies. Another thing is that I don't read articles about or look at internet discussions of movies and TV, either. There are way too many people out there picking apart every little detail looking for "plot holes" to drive internet views. However, they've usually only found continuity errors. That said, I still don't watch nearly as many movies or TV shows that I used to.

I'm currently going through the same thing with video games.





Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 05:45:35


Post by: trexmeyer


 Lance845 wrote:
 trexmeyer wrote:
I don't know if Tenet fits the bill for an epic, but The Green Knight certainly doesn't. That's a very small scale film.
Its an epic in the very classic sense of a hero going on the Heroes Journey encountering fantastical elements like literal giants, ghosts, and an immortal knight monster man.

Epic is a genre of narrative defined by heroic or legendary adventures presented in a long format.[1][2] Originating in the form of epic poetry,[3][4] the genre also now applies to epic theatre, epic films, music, novels, stage play, television series, and video games.[4] Scholars argue that 'the epic' has long since become "disembedded" from its origins in oral poetry.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_(genre)


You snipped out the part about scope.
Epic films are a style of filmmaking with large scale, sweeping scope, and spectacle.


The Green Knight is arguably an epic poem, but it doesn't translate into an epic film IMO.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 06:52:48


Post by: hotsauceman1


Are you sure you are looking in the right places for entertainment or getting out of your comfort zone?
For example, I would have never picked up centaurworld if It wasn't recommended by someone I trusted but didn't have the same tastes.(you all need to watch centaurworld, it's not what you think it is)
Go looking for stuff, you never know what you might find


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 07:25:09


Post by: Blackie


 trexmeyer wrote:
I don't know if Tenet fits the bill for an epic, but The Green Knight certainly doesn't. That's a very small scale film.


Both among the worst movies I've ever seen.

I understand the OP's feeling and I somehow agree. I mean mainstream movies/tv series/videogames are exactly like that, pure cash grab. But there's a lot of stuff with huge depth.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 08:36:47


Post by: posermcbogus


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Could you be experiencing burn-out or depression?


This was my first thought, too. Usually if I stop finding something I know is fun, fun, then that's a really good sign that I'm hitting a depressive episode. Take care of yourself, OP.

That said, idk, it kind of depends just how this burnout is hitting you. If contemporary popcorn films aren't doing it for you, I'd suggest trying stuff outside your comfort zone. When you mentioned modern media being dominated by re-fried movies from the last 50 years, while I kind of agree with you, one of my current favorite franchises - the Korean Kingdom series - absolutely isn't that. While it's really solidly in the 'unplug brain, have fun' spectrum, it's also gorgeously stylish, the set design and costuming is absolutely world-class, and it manages to meld intrigue with creepyness wonderfully, without being too pretentious to just fully lean into kitsch Korean horror.
It might just be that between Hollywood reckoning with the advent of streaming supremacy, and then also the pandemic really throwing a spanner in the works on top of that, that you've consumed all of the cinema from (I'm assuming, pardon me if I'm wrong) the Anglophone film industry. If you try broadening your horizons a little, and you might have more fun? What's big in Indian cinema right now? What has happened in domestically-made Chinese film in the last 25 years? You ever checked out those hoity-toity French films from like the 60s that all the hipster girls who smoke clover cigarettes always seem to like? Post-war Japanese gangster flicks? British indie cinema? Challenge yourself! You never know, you might accidentally find something utterly brilliant.
Alternately, it never hurts to look at what influenced the movie makers you like best. Often, film makers are real nerds, and have a huge list of favorite film makers that the vast majority of us have never heard of.

Another thing to bear in mind is... interests just change sometimes. For like, more than the last 10 years, I was a HUGE music nerd, constantly listening to new stuff, making music, reading about musicians, chewing over theory and history, wondering what makes a pop song good, going to shows, and then, like the last 3 or so years? I just stopped.
That's not to say I don't listen to music anymore, and if anything, I'm listening to a broader range of music now than I was then, but... nothing hits me the same way anymore, or at least, not as often
Spoiler:
I listened to The Weakerthans' Saga of a Cat Named Virtue and boy oh boy that got me good
as it used to. I rarely pick up my guitar anymore. It feels really weird, because it was such a huge part of who I was, and who I understood myself to be, and then suddenly it just wasn't.

But that's not a bad thing, unless you feel like it is. As music stepped out of my life, I was already developing new hobbies. I got super into photography, and as much as my best pictures are all on digital, I love film the best. Photography took me to art museums, and now that scruffy punk teen who thumbed his nose at the art establishment actually really likes theory, composition, and the minutiae of anatomy. He even has favorite painters!
Spoiler:
I still think the impressionists are boring though. feth Monet.


Change can be scary, but it can also be a growth thing, and that's sometimes good. It's fine to feel frustrated about stuff you like - you like it, it makes you happy, there's an emotional investment there. Sometimes, like Bob says, losing interest in something you know you like can be a warning sign about your overall mental health. But at the same time, maybe you just need to try something else? Idk, hope this helped! Interesting thread! If you, or anyone else ever wants to talk mental health stuff, my DMs are open!


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 09:03:54


Post by: Flinty


Tomorrow’s War is a big budget action film not based on any really established IP. I found it to be entertaining.

It’s a matter of opinion, but I think Discovery stands up quite well to TNG. it’s a grittier take on the franchise, but I like it.

Disney have released Soul, Raya and Luca recently, and Zootopia a bit further back.

Cinema recently has been dominated by Star Wars and MCU, but there are other things out there.

If you want to watch basically the best thing ever go find Hey Duggee. It’s animation for young children, but it is basically the best programme ever made


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 09:44:08


Post by: Manchu


There’s just so much content.

Any given person is unlikely to enjoy the vast majority of it.

This leads to the impression that virtually all of it is garbage.

Of course, a large amount of it probably is pretty dire.

But there is also a significant portion that somebody, just not you or I, finds enjoyable.

Contributing to the impression that “everything is worse” is many of the most famous of rebooted franchises (e.g., Star Wars, Star Trek) being truly God awful in significant ways.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 09:59:41


Post by: Mr Morden


 trexmeyer wrote:
When did the last epic film come out that wasn't part of an established IP? Dunkirk? And before that? There have been barely any blockbuster-level live-action films in the last decade that weren't an adaptation or part of an otherwise established IP. Theatres are dominated by MCU, DCEU, and animated films. These movies are generally servicable, but repetitive and not for everyone.

It's the same issue with television.
Star Trek: Discovery and Picard aren't as good as previous Star Trek series.
MCU series are decent, but again, not for everyone.
I can't speak to any western animation, because outside of Invincible I generally really dislike the artstyles employed.
Oh, and Invincible and The Boys aren't MCU, but they are more of the super-hero genre and some people are sick to death of that.
The Mandalorian was good, but again, it's more of a pre-existing series.

Game of Thrones was decent/good for a few years, but it's over (and ended poorly).

The only critically-acclaimed, audience loved, live-action series that I can think of (that isn't tied into a larger IP) is The Expanse, and that's another adaptation. I guess Black Mirror would count.

A24 is producing good movies at least.


Well Dunkirk is just a poor remake of a much better B/W film by a (IMO) very weak director but putting that aside and having several friends with depression - this sounds like exactly the same thing they report when I speak to them - they just can't anything they want to watch and things they know they should enjoy - they don't/can't.

We have so much choice now - in genre, in ways to watch things, in access anytime and in creators both proffessional and amuteur.

Even in franschises like the MCU - the films are IMO exremely well crafted and full of excellent and variable characters.

Game of Thrones started well but ended badly and that was sad for many many of us - there are plenty of exqually good fantsy shows (often with much lower budgets telling interesting stories.

The Zombie theme is said to be "old and tired" by soem but there are plenty of quality variations compare Walking Dead to I Zombie to Black Summer to Z Nation.

Superheor shows are the same - Black Lightning is my favourite of these with a great story and characters plus plenty of poltical commentary whereas others are darker (Boys), fluffier (Stargirl, most DCU), wierder (Umbrella Accademy) whatever you want.

Comedies - - new Season of Archer is out, enjoying Ghosts on BBC

I have not got time to watch all the shows I enjoy....

Maybe take some time for yourself and see if there is anything else thats really causing you to feel bad....


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 11:10:36


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Comedies? What We Do In The Shadows is superb.

There’s a new series of American Horror Story too, a show I absolutely adore, even if the seasons are somewhat uneven (Roanoke took a couple of watches, but Hotel is my absolute favourite).

But I’d like to echo the concerns of other posters that you might be experiencing depression. As a long time sufferer myself, I urge you to talk to your Doctor, as support is out there.

Other than that? We’re literally spoiled for choice these days. Streaming has opened up our entertainment options like never before. We can enjoy brand new content (Only Murders in the Building is great), and still comfort binge old favourites, as well as discovering classics from yesteryear.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 12:08:38


Post by: Elemental


As you get older, more and more stuff will seem like something you've seen before. It might be worth seeing the reactions of people who are genuinely new to whatever you're fed up with to recapture that first time awe.

I remember the pre-X-Men superhero movies. I remember old kid's cartoons. I remember pre-LOTR fantasy movies (the very few that you could find). We're in the Golden Age right now.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 12:14:02


Post by: Da Boss


Went through a major depressive episode last year and felt like this a lot of the time. Hope you're just bored and it's not the onset of something like that, wouldn't wish it on you.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 22:01:06


Post by: Tannhauser42


 trexmeyer wrote:
When did the last epic film come out that wasn't part of an established IP? Dunkirk? And before that? There have been barely any blockbuster-level live-action films in the last decade that weren't an adaptation or part of an otherwise established IP. Theatres are dominated by MCU, DCEU, and animated films. These movies are generally servicable, but repetitive and not for everyone.



I'm sorry, but I really had to laugh out loud at this. Using Dunkirk as an example of something not in an "established IP"? I'm pretty sure that, at this point, World War II is very well established.
But, this does help make a good point. How many epic war movies do you have to see before they all start to feel the same? When you're younger, and everything is still a new experience, it's easier to enjoy things as they are. As you get older, and see/read/hear more stuff, you start to recognize the tropes and the archetypes, and things can start to feel the same.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/11 22:50:01


Post by: trexmeyer


 Tannhauser42 wrote:


I'm sorry, but I really had to laugh out loud at this. Using Dunkirk as an example of something not in an "established IP"? I'm pretty sure that, at this point, World War II is very well established.


Intellectual Property:

a work or invention that is the result of creativity, such as a manuscript or a design, to which one has rights and for which one may apply for a patent, copyright, trademark, etc.


What an incredibly rude response.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/12 00:01:08


Post by: flamingkillamajig


I suppose things i've enjoyed in the past would include Psycho-Pass and i suppose Berserk (the anime), Monster (anime) or Parasyte (another anime).

I think i tend to prefer more serious or philosophical things or things that deal with fairly serious questions. I've never read Dune or Starship Troopers but both sound like they could be up my alley.

--------

As far as stories i'd personally make there's one i wanted to make that kind of criticized both main political parties at the cost of the citizens with political corruption and disenfranchising of the average citizen that eventually a Caesar-like individual comes into being after he sees everything he once believed in to seem like a total sham. Eventually he goes from semi-normal to a dude that starts committing nuclear genocide near book's end. He basically pulls out at the end after a matter of personal conscience but he gets betrayed and killed and his power seized. It's kind of tragic for everybody involved. It's more a story to tell everybody IRL to calm the feth down and settle things down a bit if you don't want things to end violently and horribly.

------

Another story is about a guy in some made up world (it's not a fantasy world) that's similar to probably the 1800s to early 1900s in technology level and he basically gets recruited after his town suffers at the hands of an enemy army only to later find out the group he sides with has its own skeletons in the closet. The end has him saving somebody from being raped and killing the friendly soldiers responsible only to be tried and sentenced to firing squad. Part of the idea was the actual history varies from written history and what the books choose to remember or are authorized to remember.

-----

The tabletop game i wanted to make was about biker gangs in hell. This one i think i've decided will be more light hearted but include sex, violence and 80s rock n roll with demons and bikes and they war over territory in hell trying to claim ownership of hell. Over-the-top and silly dark parodies of the Real World are common. I'm probably gonna keep it less serious so people have fun.

-----

Final story idea i had was about people and their families getting abducted and put into psychological experiments (often times ending with them killing each other). By the end of the story it ends up governments and companies use these psychological experiments in order to learn the masses in order to control them. Some do it to prevent things like mass genocide and others do it to help themselves. Ofc the idea one of the Good Guys says is that people are corruptible and the leaders that think they know the best for others are willing to sacrifice others but never themselves or their own families for the betterment of society. Also people are flawed and a lot of the experiments might not be correct and they're for an end that is unknown but the known is they're committing real mass death in the here and now.

The Bad Guy convinces himself and tries to convince others he only is trying to help society from another genocide and is one of those "Ends Justify the Means" types. Ofc all of this is happening somewhat in secret so the abducted people are in lower income neighborhoods and the ones in power use money, influence and connections to prevent police from investigations. It's basically about shady as a certain scummy individual being found hung in a jail cell for "Suicide" when things didn't add up to that.

-----

Oh and i think another story was about a guy that goes psychotic but it ends up he tries to show people how fake and superficial society has become and that we only care about the most worthless of things rather than our family, mental or physical disorders, homelessness, love, death, etc. Meanwhile we focus on who is best at sex, hashtag activism (without putting in the physical labor in person) and so on. Basically people being shells of a normal functioning person.

-----

I suppose part of my issue with entertainment is the depth of the story is about as thin as cardboard. It's not like Deus Ex, the Manchurian Candidate or other great stories.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/12 00:13:50


Post by: Gitzbitah


You might want to give Overlord a try- the anime, not the movie. It really does a great job of a villain with no regards for human life trying to be a hero- for their own ends.

Otherwise it sounds like you're looking for high concept, weird, philosophical shows. I'd highly recommend Altered Carbon- although you can stop after season 1, it's much more impressive than season 2.

Sense8 is a really interesting exploration of the reality of spontaneous telepathic connection with a cluster of 8 individuals. Very, very strange and unique.

I bounced off of it, but the OA may be another one to explore.

edit- Oh, and I can't believe I forgot it- The Magicians. Imagine a school for witchcraft and wizardry, but it's actually a college, and every attempt to use magic to fix their problems inevitably ends up creating further problems and complications. It's a complex world, where the characters are allowed to fail, and has a great cast of deeply flawed individuals.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/12 00:20:22


Post by: warboss


You're not the only one who feels that way, OP. A lot of previously dependable sources of entertainment have soured for me over the past five years. Staples like Star Trek, Star Wars, and Doctor Who have significantly worsened for me and the fragmentation of newer properties via streaming means I'm not watching many of them. The ones I do watch and somewhat enjoy on prime/Netflix tend to have the double whammy of shortened seasons AND longer gaps inbetween. I suppose I'll have a ton to catch up on it I ever sub to hbomax and Disney again.

And that's before considering the pandemic and family health problems that put a damper on my other sources of entertainment like movie going and in person gaming.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/12 00:38:16


Post by: flamingkillamajig


@trexmeyer: I have heard The Expanse was good. I'm guessing i'd need a streaming service to watch it though.

-----

Part of my issue with entertainment is over-saturation. For instance since my sister lives in Los Angeles i asked if going to Disney Land so much now made the experience less impactful and fun for her and she said "Of course it does." Perhaps the issue is that we get so much of the same standard crap over and over it's just nothing i haven't seen before.

I think there's a SMBC comic on this where an older man becomes bored with things due to age and then he tries to remember fun things as he did as a child and then dies from eating too much candy with diabetes.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/12 00:41:54


Post by: hotsauceman1


The amount of entertainment is bigger than it has ever been. There is so much out there that there is something for you.
Are you looking for entertainment? or are you looking for something to fill a void you have? OR are you looking for a new obsessions.
Because to me, it sounds like you are looking for something to fill a part of your life and impact your life


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/12 00:46:10


Post by: creeping-deth87


 Tannhauser42 wrote:


I'm sorry, but I really had to laugh out loud at this. Using Dunkirk as an example of something not in an "established IP"? I'm pretty sure that, at this point, World War II is very well established.


I can't believe this needs to be said, but WW2 is not an intellectual property.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/12 00:55:03


Post by: Voss


 creeping-deth87 wrote:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:


I'm sorry, but I really had to laugh out loud at this. Using Dunkirk as an example of something not in an "established IP"? I'm pretty sure that, at this point, World War II is very well established.


I can't believe this needs to be said, but WW2 is not an intellectual property.

Obviously not, but it has been absolutely beaten to death as a topic, and reused over and over again in the most shallow and tropey ways.
Dunkirk wasn't a departure from anything, except reasonable volume control.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/12 01:10:38


Post by: flamingkillamajig


Voss wrote:
 creeping-deth87 wrote:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:


I'm sorry, but I really had to laugh out loud at this. Using Dunkirk as an example of something not in an "established IP"? I'm pretty sure that, at this point, World War II is very well established.


I can't believe this needs to be said, but WW2 is not an intellectual property.

Obviously not, but it has been absolutely beaten to death as a topic, and reused over and over again in the most shallow and tropey ways.
Dunkirk wasn't a departure from anything, except reasonable volume control.


The issue i had with Dunkirk is more that they repeated the same scene from like several different perspectives. You know you can do that without showing literally the same events playing out 3 separate times based around different perspectives. Like you could've done it more seamlessly by showing one perspective and then keeping time flowing through. For instance if an enemy bombing run is happening on a ship you can show it from one perspective but show the next 30 seconds of that bombing run from the pilot's perspective and then show the next 45 seconds to a minute where they're freaking out on a recovery boat. I just don't know. That movie would've been solid if it didn't show the same 15 minutes repeated 3 separate times for a total of 45 mins. I realize it's a tense movie but repeating events 3 times is like that dude that tells the same unfunny joke 3 times in rapid succession or tries to jump scare you the same way 3 times in a row.

Also WW2 always bugged the crap out of me as a setting when it was over-saturated to death. WW2 shooters and movies in general have been shown and played to death. I know Russia as an enemy is more of a semi-recent thing but i feel it was never played into the ground in the way WW2 films have been esp. vs the nazis. For some reason though i always found Cold War going into WW3 is far more fun of a setting like the Wargame series. Plus it's even modern enough to have apache helicopters, stealth bombers and some seriously fun weapons rather than jeeps that probably can't go beyond 30 mph at top speed, super close ranged rocket launchers (still sorta fun in a suicidal moment of glory type of way) and only just started to have automatic weapons (meaning crappy carbines with a small stick of ammo before reload were common).


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/12 02:22:16


Post by: Grimskul


If you want good shows with well-fleshed out cast and that delves into interesting topics, I highly suggest Bojack Horseman. It covers really good topics on intergenerational trauma, depression and the fundamentals of toxic relationships while having the comedy to balance out a lot of the underlying messages with a solid story.

For more of a take on the typical superhero tropes while really bringing something new and great character development, you really can't beat Venture Bros. The best part is that even though they officially got cancelled, they're apparently going to release a movie to tie up loose ends so after you're finished you still have something to look forward to.

If you're a fan of Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul is one of the best spin-off shows I've seen in any franchise. It really manages to stand on its own while still having meaningful (and not overused) callbacks to BB, and its not a cash-grab since you legitimately give a crap with the other characters in Saul's life and how his own transformation into the sleazy lawyer in BB happens is just masterfully done.

As far as movies go, I feel like WW2 is kinda better for weird story takes moreso than any real war story given that its been done to death by classics like Saving Private Ryan and a bunch of other movies. Some of the examples is Jojo Rabbit, where you pretty much have a kid who has Hitler as his imaginary friend and its surprisingly very good as a coming of age story having WW2 as the backdrop.

Parasite (the Korean movie) is another fantastic movie and I feel like you just kinda need to take the time to explore and test out some of the shows/movies you're watching since there's just so much out there.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/12 02:30:21


Post by: trexmeyer


Some other things.

What We Do In The Shadows, the film and the series, as well as Wellington Paranormal, which is a decent comedy, albeit a very dry one.

Atlanta is a good show, sadly it only has 2 seasons.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/12 11:01:49


Post by: techsoldaten


I'm pretty put off by entertainment these days, and media generally.

Grew up on Star Wars, Star Trek, Dr. Who, and American cartoons of the 90s, along with local bands, nature documentaries and DIY shows. Common themes from that era have been replaced with something less optimistic, lots of focus on systems, heists and indicting authority. Noticed Netflix has a cottage industry going with documentaries portraying drug traffickers from the 80s in a sympathetic light.

My daughter watches YouTube and agitates for me to get her a smartphone or an iPad. Her 10-year-old cousin did a YouTube video that went viral, she wants to replicate that somehow. I notice her attention span isn't the same, I was reading novels by her age and she loses interest in most things after a few minutes. The things I used to watch would hold my attention for hours.

While there might be a glut of entertainment, there's not really a lot that inspires or nourishes an inquisitive mind. We spend more time in nature than I ever did as a kid, I just want her to have an active lifestyle and have a role for media. I don't want it to play as much of a role as it did for me. Even sports, I won't sit and watch a game anymore because I don't want to set a bad example (and, partially, because friends won't come over anymore due to lockdowns.)

Would love to have this impression challenged. Feels like I'm missing something, but I can't find it.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/12 11:11:49


Post by: BertBert


It has certainly become much more difficult to sift through the vast amount of entertainment on offer. Netflix is a legitimate pain to navigate and riddled with tripe, so the (once) simple act of looking for a suitable show/movie becomes a pain in the behind that frequently kills any joy of anticipation.

The OP has it right in that there is more low quality stuff out there than ever, but that's mostly because there is so much stuff period. There is also a lot of good or even great stuff out there, it's just not as easy to find as it once was.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/12 11:37:01


Post by: Cronch



While there might be a glut of entertainment, there's not really a lot that inspires or nourishes an inquisitive mind.

I just saw a video of a man explaining how XVIII century potters made their wares by walking round in the woods looking for wild clay.
There are at least two quality channels on YT dedicated to short, 10-15-minute animated videos about history and mythology. There's innumerable channels doing nature and science stuff. And that's just youtube. When I was growing up, it was by then painfully outdated 70's and 80's documentaries re-runs on the TV if i wanted any educational content that wasn't old, talking heads on the screen.

Even "proper" nature documentaries of today blow the old stuff out of the water in detail, scope and ability to pass on this knowledge and wonder.
Is it all sugar and candy? No, but if it were, those documentaries would be lying to you. The kids have the right to know that those wonderful animals they're watching, they probably won't be there for their kids to watch unless their parents do something right NOW.

You can complain about modern movies and shows all you want (you'd still be wrong, but that's subjective taste), but the wealth of science, nature and historical shows available both on streaming platforms and made by enthusiasts on youtube is simply unmatched. Yes, you as a parent have to make sure the Algorithm doesn't lead her to some horrid rabbitholes, but that was always the case with media.




Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/12 12:23:53


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


In terms of what I watch?

There’s a definite level of “comfort food TV”. Classics from my youth, such as TNG, DS9 and stuff from yesteryear I missed first time around.

I also like learning new stuff, however useless the resulting info might be. Towsends (the video Cronch referenced above) gives me inspiration for when I go back to LARPing. FactFiend fills my head with cool but useless trivia. True Crime stuff is for bedtime. Cookery YouTube channels give me new ideas for healthier food.

With Disney+. Prime, BritBox and FITE (for AEW) I can find something to suit any particular mood or craving.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/13 13:53:11


Post by: Frazzled


 trexmeyer wrote:
When did the last epic film come out that wasn't part of an established IP? Dunkirk? And before that? There have been barely any blockbuster-level live-action films in the last decade that weren't an adaptation or part of an otherwise established IP. Theatres are dominated by MCU, DCEU, and animated films. These movies are generally servicable, but repetitive and not for everyone.



Welcome to adulthood.
You're looking in the wrong places. You won't find new or revolutionary in "blockbuster" films. You watch smaller films that can be excellent.
Quiet Place. Malcolm and Marie. Judas and the Black Messiah. Nomadland. The Invisible Man. Promising Young Woman.

You watch TV series that are excellent. Reservation Dogs. What We Do in the Shadows. The Great. Witcher. Mindhunters. Ratched.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/13 14:07:43


Post by: bbb


I'm 41 now and I don't really enjoy much entertainment anymore. Part of me feels like a grumpy nerd, but how much does one need new entertainment?

I'd rather listen to a non-fiction podcast while I puttered around working on projects than sit down and watch a made up story. Part of it is the "slickness" that modern entertainment has. It's really relatively easy to make snazzy looking stories with digital effects, but I find I enjoy stripped down, simpler, slower entertainment if I do sit down to watch something. Shows with lots of running and yelling don't appeal much to me.

As far as new fictional entertainment I've watched over the last few years that I've liked: The Orville, The Mandalorian, lots of Masterpiece shows, Wandavision, Loki, and I can't think of much else.

As far as non-fiction entertainment: Forged in Fire, Nova, Nature, Lego Masters

Now, all that being said, I absolutely love professional wresting. At it's core you have three+ people (2+ wrestlers and a ref) trying to tell a story in a ring. The documentaries and interview shows that have been done over the last few years have been great as well.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/13 15:16:01


Post by: LunarSol


There's a lot of quality stuff out there, but more and more I'm coming to realize that my enjoyment comes not as much from what it is, but how I consume it.

Binging a show or movie or game or whatever and jettisoning it for the next just feels empty. I need the social connection around it. Walking out of a theater together and discussing what we though or discussing cliffhangers week to week while waiting for the next episode. The social aspect is in a lot of ways more meaningful than the actual entertainment.

One of the big challenges I find these days is just the relentless negativity that surrounds just about all forms of entertainment these days. It's so hard to find something to be passionate about when there is so much online effort put towards hating on everything. You can't even really hide from it, as much often than not it filters down to people you know who get caught up in the same traps.

Ultimately the best advice I can give is to keep trying new things, but try not to feel the need to complete everything you try. So many games, tv shows, games, franchises, etc these days have good hooks but mostly just want to turn themselves into a banal habit in the long run. Identifying and cutting those out is pretty key.



Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/13 21:41:04


Post by: trexmeyer


 Frazzled wrote:
 trexmeyer wrote:
When did the last epic film come out that wasn't part of an established IP? Dunkirk? And before that? There have been barely any blockbuster-level live-action films in the last decade that weren't an adaptation or part of an otherwise established IP. Theatres are dominated by MCU, DCEU, and animated films. These movies are generally servicable, but repetitive and not for everyone.



Welcome to adulthood.
You're looking in the wrong places. You won't find new or revolutionary in "blockbuster" films. You watch smaller films that can be excellent.
Quiet Place. Malcolm and Marie. Judas and the Black Messiah. Nomadland. The Invisible Man. Promising Young Woman.

You watch TV series that are excellent. Reservation Dogs. What We Do in the Shadows. The Great. Witcher. Mindhunters. Ratched.


List of blockbuster films that were revolutionary (not all-inclusive):

Ben-Hur
Star Wars
Alien
Aliens (IMO)
The Terminator, but T2 moreso
2001: A Space Odyssey
Jurassic Park
Indiana Jones (even though I dislike the series)
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
Titanic (don't even like it)
The Matrix
Saving Private Ryan
Apocalypse Now
LOTR Trilogy

I would say you could probably include X-Men, Spider-Man 2, Batman Begins or Dark Knight as well, since those were the first massively successful comic-book adaptations.

The problem is that modern blockbusters are literally nothing but MCU, DCEU trying to be MCU, decades-old franchises, the occasional Nolan film, or blatant cash grabs. There is too much money at stake now. Everyone wants Tres Commas. It has nothing to do with adulthood. This issue didn't exist 20 years ago.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/13 22:14:39


Post by: Easy E


That reminds me, I think it is time to make Apocalypse NOW!

Same story, but different setting.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/13 22:48:36


Post by: Voss


Africa, maybe? 19th century?


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/14 00:37:49


Post by: trexmeyer


Voss wrote:
Africa, maybe? 19th century?


I understood that reference.

I wouldn't touch that setting with a ten-foot pole if I was studio. However, the Shaka Zulu mini-series was interesting and the lead actor did a great job.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/14 01:16:15


Post by: flamingkillamajig


 trexmeyer wrote:
Voss wrote:
Africa, maybe? 19th century?


I understood that reference.

I wouldn't touch that setting with a ten-foot pole if I was studio. However, the Shaka Zulu mini-series was interesting and the lead actor did a great job.


I think a historical setting could be ok or even a future or fantasy setting. Thing is it'd need to be unique and most things aren't unique anymore.

Also on the subject of all these high budget movies i am wondering if 200 to 250 million as a max budget for a series would be an idea we should try. That or we could go the book to movie route. Maybe if a book is good enough we can make a movie out of it. It seems to work and i imagine there's less risk involved.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/14 01:50:07


Post by: trexmeyer


I disagree. I think series are inherently riskier from a production standpoint even if they are better as a medium. Losing a key actor, especially if they're an unknown that blows up, can really mess up a series. It's one thing if it's a short run or short seasons, but otherwise...


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/14 02:02:25


Post by: Tyran


 trexmeyer wrote:

List of blockbuster films that were revolutionary (not all-inclusive):

Ben-Hur
Star Wars
Alien
Aliens (IMO)
The Terminator, but T2 moreso
2001: A Space Odyssey
Jurassic Park
Indiana Jones (even though I dislike the series)
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
Titanic (don't even like it)
The Matrix
Saving Private Ryan
Apocalypse Now
LOTR Trilogy

I would say you could probably include X-Men, Spider-Man 2, Batman Begins or Dark Knight as well, since those were the first massively successful comic-book adaptations.

The problem is that modern blockbusters are literally nothing but MCU, DCEU trying to be MCU, decades-old franchises, the occasional Nolan film, or blatant cash grabs. There is too much money at stake now. Everyone wants Tres Commas. It has nothing to do with adulthood. This issue didn't exist 20 years ago.

Doesn't mean the point is wrong, you are looking for something you will not find in modern blockbusters.

Watch a tv series (live action and/or animated), read books, play video games, read comics (not Marvel or DC, but there are smaller comic brands), read webcomics, watch anime, read mangas, watch youtube videos, hell even read fanfiction and/or watch fan animation.

We live in an era with absurd amount of entertainment accessible in a few clicks in a plethora of formats, from all kinds of authors. And sure you are not going to like 99.999% of them, but the remaining 0.001% is still a lot.
Just don't expect that 0.001% to simply fall on your lap, the sheer immensity of entertainment does mean digging is required. Helps if you belong to a community with similar tastes that can help you look.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/14 03:56:43


Post by: flamingkillamajig


I said series when in fact I meant a movie. Each movie shouldn't go too far beyond the 250 million USD threshold (probably less than that even). It just becomes far too risky.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/14 09:36:38


Post by: Cronch


 trexmeyer wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
 trexmeyer wrote:
When did the last epic film come out that wasn't part of an established IP? Dunkirk? And before that? There have been barely any blockbuster-level live-action films in the last decade that weren't an adaptation or part of an otherwise established IP. Theatres are dominated by MCU, DCEU, and animated films. These movies are generally servicable, but repetitive and not for everyone.



Welcome to adulthood.
You're looking in the wrong places. You won't find new or revolutionary in "blockbuster" films. You watch smaller films that can be excellent.
Quiet Place. Malcolm and Marie. Judas and the Black Messiah. Nomadland. The Invisible Man. Promising Young Woman.

You watch TV series that are excellent. Reservation Dogs. What We Do in the Shadows. The Great. Witcher. Mindhunters. Ratched.


List of blockbuster films that were revolutionary (not all-inclusive):

Ben-Hur
Star Wars
Alien
Aliens (IMO)
The Terminator, but T2 moreso
2001: A Space Odyssey
Jurassic Park
Indiana Jones (even though I dislike the series)
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
Titanic (don't even like it)
The Matrix
Saving Private Ryan
Apocalypse Now
LOTR Trilogy

I'd argue there as nothiing revolutionary about Indy movies or Titanic, they were just highly refined takes on existing movie genre.
Most of the others were revolutionary in use of special effects, something that was brand new 40-20 years ago when most of those movies were made, and something that has since reached it's plateau. Studios know what works and what doesn't, and since the only reason for their existence is making money, they stick to the formula that proven to make money. Making visionary movies is risky, and that's not the job of the movie studios to be visionary, their job is to bring profit to shareholders.

tl;dr big studios funded revolutionary movies in the last 50 years because the technology shift introduced uncertainty as to what will sell. Now that uncertainty has been removed, and they're back to funding safe products with high ROI like they did in the 40s-60s.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/14 14:07:31


Post by: Easy E


We all ready only make movies from successful books (or material that was successful in another medium first). Almost all movies now-a-days come from some place else. It is less risky if there is all ready an audience.

This is true even of the old days. Ben-Hur was a very successful novel way before it became a movie, and then it was even made multiple times as a movie!


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/14 14:14:11


Post by: LunarSol


 Easy E wrote:
We all ready only make movies from successful books (or material that was successful in another medium first). Almost all movies now-a-days come from some place else. It is less risky if there is all ready an audience.

This is true even of the old days. Ben-Hur was a very successful novel way before it became a movie, and then it was even made multiple times as a movie!


This.

Even Sherlock Holmes was once about the same level of literature as your average comic book. All of the "prestige" gangster films out there are mostly people trying to legitimize trashy pulp novels of their youth.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/14 16:32:27


Post by: John Prins


There's too much self censorship in the entertainment industry.

Everybody's afraid of getting cancelled.

The studios want to get their movie shown in China.

Both these things create a lot of self-censorship.



Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/14 16:59:55


Post by: Cronch


Unlike the movies of yore, which...do tell exactly what they did that these new, cancel-wary productions don't?


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/14 18:18:08


Post by: Frazzled


I don't believe any of the blockbusters mentioned are from this Century.

The Nolan movies were ok, but...not much above ok.

Comic Book movies are pure popcorn films, to be forgotten when you finish the popcorn. Thats ok. Westerns were like that, and musicals were like that too.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/14 18:25:16


Post by: John Prins


Cronch wrote:
Unlike the movies of yore, which...do tell exactly what they did that these new, cancel-wary productions don't?


That would require me to veer off into politics.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/14 18:36:21


Post by: Tyran


I think the last blockbuster that was made for love to the art instead of to get the billions was James Cameron's Avatar.

I know many among the demographics of this board disliked it, but you cannot deny that movie was born from James Cameron's passion for film making instead of a corporation board wanting the billions (they got the billions alright, but the movie was so expensive to produce it was a very real risk).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 John Prins wrote:
Cronch wrote:
Unlike the movies of yore, which...do tell exactly what they did that these new, cancel-wary productions don't?


That would require me to veer off into politics.


I will, because the politics of movies of yore are, well politics of yore that are not really political these days.

I mean, OT Star Wars has a blatant anti-imperialist message, in particular an anti-Vietnam war theme.
LotR has Luddite themes born from Tolkien's experiences in WW1.
The Matrix is about social control, plus being a transgender allegory... ok that one is still political.
Jurassic Park deals with the dangers of unethical scientific and corporate progress.
Ellen Ripley is the first action heroine that redefined what it means to be a female lead in action films, specially in horror and sci-fi.

Modern blockbusters? they don't really bring anything new politically wise, because they have to sell in China.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/14 20:19:19


Post by: Goose LeChance


No you aren't jaded, we've entered a new dark age of mainstream entertainment. It's heavily controlled by corporations and suits who treat art like it's the same as selling microwaves.

It's just a side effect of having to please so many masters during the board meetings.

 John Prins wrote:
There's too much self censorship in the entertainment industry.

Everybody's afraid of getting cancelled.

The studios want to get their movie shown in China.

Both these things create a lot of self-censorship.



This has a lot to do with it, along with the terrible remakes and franchise milking properties like Marvel/Star Wars.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/14 20:39:53


Post by: phandaal


 flamingkillamajig wrote:


What do all of you guys think? Do you agree or disagree with things i've said? Let me know.


Going against the board-certified psychiatrists who've decided that not liking modern entertainment is a sign of mental illness: agree with what you've said.

There certainly does seem to be a trend of mining the franchises of 20-35 years ago for reboots and rehashes. At best it is mediocre and/or boring. At worst, it is a corpo wearing the skin of your franchise while dancing to midnight rituals.

You're better off ignoring all that. Keep your canon intact and your wallet a little bit fuller.

That said, there still is some original content coming out. Some of it even makes its way to theaters. Ignore reboots, ignore 30-years-later "sequels," and you'll find it.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/14 20:49:03


Post by: LordofHats


Because some of this did strike a cord with me, my thoughts;

I don't think I'm jaded or depressed. I think I'm just a slight step off of the mainstream audience most modern media tries to cater itself to. Modern action films make me roll my eyes. Every anime season these days is 70-80% Isekai stories that are all 99% the same as the ones from the last season. One of my favorite genres is horror and urban fantasy but most of the stuff coming out for both genres just isn't quite what I'm looking for.

Mind, I like MCU stuff, and such so I don't think I'm completely outside the stream. But I'd kill to see a well produced and executed haunted house movie that isn't garbage and there's maybe one real attempt at they every other year now. Most horror movies are cheap slasher crap or demonic possession films and neither of those really catch my fancy. True blue Lovecraftian fiction is few and far between though we've gotten a bit more of that the past few years which has been nice. I'd love something like classic TNG era Star Trek cause Discovery and Picard are not even remotely close and The Orville was banal and bland to me. The Expanse is great, but its a grittier sci-fi so it doesn't scratch the itch. All I really have is rewatching DS9 for the 80th time on Netflix.

And I don't think it's that I'm jaded (said that before).

I think there's things I want that just aren't being made right now.

It might be that what you want out of your entertainment has been pushed into a market niche and the stuff that gets all the attention and budget just isn't it. I feel like I'm just kind of stuck waiting for media trends to kind of swing back around my way. Might be why I've been so insanely productive writing the past few years. I couldn't find some of the things I wanted anywhere else so I started writing it myself.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/14 20:51:36


Post by: gorgon


Hollywood has never not been about making money, LOL. And actually, studios used to be vertically integrated and MORE powerful, not less. It's far easier for indy studios now than when the big 5 controlled all the theaters. The studios used to own the actors also, and the moguls that sat atop those studios controlled everything.

There's never been more -- and more independent -- content than right now. There have never been more 'voices' and 'visions' being heard and created. And if you point to the most commercial stuff...it's not even that different. As Frazz pointed out, superhero films are just Westerns with bigger budgets. Churned out factory-style just the same. And what, formula films are something new? LOL. They go back decades and decades. What do you think all those Elvis movies were? Just a marketable star with a bunch of formula written around him. Easy, quick bucks. Cha-ching.

If there's a problem with entertainment today, it's in the sheer volume of it. It's overwhelming, but also leads us to think our entertainment needs to be "perfect" and tailored for us just like our news and virtual world has become. I've certainly found myself spending half my evening navigating my streaming services to find *just* the right scratch for my itch. In that instance, I've found it's best to just pick SOMETHING and watch it. Sometimes you'll be disappointed, but sometimes you'll be surprised.



Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/14 21:03:22


Post by: Cronch


The Matrix is about social control, plus being a transgender allegory... ok that one is still political.

Only if you think the existence of a whole group of people is a political question.
But yes, the fact they felt elaborating would be a mistake explains what exactly they think is being censored these days. I'm not going to pursue further, but I doubt this is the reason we don't see innovative blockbusters.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/14 21:54:50


Post by: LunarSol


 gorgon wrote:
As Frazz pointed out, superhero films are just Westerns with bigger budgets. Churned out factory-style just the same. And what, formula films are something new? LOL. They go back decades and decades. What do you think all those Elvis movies were? Just a marketable star with a bunch of formula written around him. Easy, quick bucks. Cha-ching.


Very much this. The only difference now is that it's YOUR childhood being mind for nostalgia because you're old enough to have the income to pander to. The western boom was all about cashing in on kids that grew up playing cowboys and indians or reading pulp novels of the pioneer days. Same things with fairy tales. Every generation grows up and tries to make everyone take the things they loved as kids seriously. Give it another 10-20 years and we'll be looking at the gritty live action reboot of Steven Universe while our generation is mostly pandered to with recontextualizations of the war in the middle east.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/14 22:05:42


Post by: trexmeyer


 LunarSol wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
As Frazz pointed out, superhero films are just Westerns with bigger budgets. Churned out factory-style just the same. And what, formula films are something new? LOL. They go back decades and decades. What do you think all those Elvis movies were? Just a marketable star with a bunch of formula written around him. Easy, quick bucks. Cha-ching.


Very much this. The only difference now is that it's YOUR childhood being mind for nostalgia because you're old enough to have the income to pander to. The western boom was all about cashing in on kids that grew up playing cowboys and indians or reading pulp novels of the pioneer days. Same things with fairy tales. Every generation grows up and tries to make everyone take the things they loved as kids seriously. Give it another 10-20 years and we'll be looking at the gritty live action reboot of Steven Universe while our generation is mostly pandered to with recontextualizations of the war in the middle east.


That might be true in broad strokes, but it's also a bit of a strawman. Who is going around saying that every generic western made was good? Who is holding up Elvis films as high cinema?

The difference is that people are now praising the MCU as amazing cinema and those films are doing gangbusters.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 00:08:48


Post by: phandaal


 LunarSol wrote:
Give it another 10-20 years and we'll be looking at the gritty live action reboot of Steven Universe while our generation is mostly pandered to with recontextualizations of the war in the middle east.


The darkest timeline.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 04:02:30


Post by: flamingkillamajig


@gorgon: Let's be real here though. Mega corporations are far too big again in most types of business. Maybe the big corporations arent as big with movies but a massive corporation break-up by the govt for various things would solve that temporarily at least. Ofc that's getting off topic.

I think I'll try making some books or tabletop ideas. I haven't really fleshed things out too much but I discussed the ideas before. Hopefully some of those ideas interest some of you people here.

Btw I don't think politics can't be done in shows. It's just sadly entertainment is only shown in one political direction mostly. If you want politics done right look at south park. They attack the BS of all groups so nobody feels esp. singled out. That's actually how comedy should be done too but I suppose some forget that.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 08:17:29


Post by: Da Boss


Loads of people criticise MCU films. I've never seen an article or discussion of MCU films that didn't include some criticism or lamenting of the fact that they are so dominant. People like them, but people liked westerns too. Nobody is pretending the MCU is high art or anything.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 09:33:33


Post by: Paint it Pink


flamingkillamajig wrote:So these days most entertainment seems to be re-makes or unimaginative cash grabs that wear a mask of a once beloved franchise and have none of the creativity. We get the same series over and over again. A lot of it re-hashes the same political talking points (and probably does it poorly) without something new or fresh up to the point smashing old tropes have made newer tropes. [snip]

What do all of you guys think? Do you agree or disagree with things i've said? Let me know.

I don't think it's a matter of disagreeing, or agreeing, but rather ennui from a number of stressors: obvious and non-obvious.

My opinion, worth exactly what you paid for it (disclaimer that I used to be a therapist, but if you want therapy you need to go consult with one, and nothing I say here is therapy) is that you're not coping with your stresses, which may me a physical illness, or isolation from normal routine (see disclaimer).

So yes, to be clear, I think you've become jaded. Why you've become jaded is a matter that can only be uncovered by looking to see what stressors you have been living with.

trexmeyer wrote:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:

I'm sorry, but I really had to laugh out loud at this. Using Dunkirk as an example of something not in an "established IP"? I'm pretty sure that, at this point, World War II is very well established.

Intellectual Property: [snip] What an incredibly rude response.

I'm always glad when I meet someone who understands IP. However, just because you've met someone who doesn't, but who who is trying to make a metaphor (yes, badly, but that's not the point), I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.

For what it's worth, I think that labeling their reply as rude is ruder than the original reply. Of course, I could be wrong, and YMMV.

trexmeyer wrote:List of blockbuster films that were revolutionary (not all-inclusive):

Ben-Hur
Star Wars etc. etc. [snip]

This issue didn't exist 20 years ago.

Oh boy. Yes, but no, and maybe. Definitions of what is or was revolutionary are all over the place, and I'm not here to nit-pick the listed films or add those that you missed. I'm only going to point out that this is a matter of perspective. A Douglas Adams quote to illustrate:

1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.”

Change this to how you look at films, stories and ideas, and hopefully you'll see what I'm getting at.

This question is both complex, because one needs to whittle down what can become pointless arguments down to the essentials, to arrive at a more interesting question. Is it enough for any story to be purely the product of the creator's imagination, or does a story need be extrapolated from scientific provable measurements?

We live in a world that is divided between those who prefer stories based on fantasy rather than reason, not that this is the problem, but rather that the conflict between the preferred tasted has become important to people's identity.

To this I can only quote, De gustibus non est disputandum – there can be no argument about taste.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 09:42:47


Post by: Elemental


 LunarSol wrote:

One of the big challenges I find these days is just the relentless negativity that surrounds just about all forms of entertainment these days. It's so hard to find something to be passionate about when there is so much online effort put towards hating on everything. You can't even really hide from it, as much often than not it filters down to people you know who get caught up in the same traps.


I'm glad someone else bought this up, because for me, this is something that had unqestionably changed for the worse. The toxicity was always there, but it's so much more ubiquitous these days--it's not enough to dislike something, you must relentlessly make sure EVERYONE knows how much you dislike it, and you must keep on bringing that hate every time someone talks about enjoying something you dislike. And then add in cancelling or review-bombing campaigns where we're supposed to hate art because of factors entirely outside of the art itself. The cumulative effect is a sense that you're not allowed to have your own private opinion on a piece of entertainment--I know there have been a couple of times when I've found to my surprise that I have very strong opinions on things I've never actually seen in a series I don't care about.

(Heck, this forum is a great example, loaded down with people who have been trumpeting their hate of Warhammer and Games Workshop for years on end, but who still hang around a dedicated forum in mortal terror that somebody might not know their opinions.)

I do sometimes wonder if the Star Wars prequels are responsible (alongside 9/11) for some of the shape the modern Internet has taken. Super-hyped movies playing on nostalgia, that turned out to be disappointing for most and where the hate quickly shot to super-histrionic levels, right in the days of the early Internet. How much did they do to set the template for modern fandom?


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 10:38:08


Post by: Blackie


 Da Boss wrote:
Loads of people criticise MCU films. I've never seen an article or discussion of MCU films that didn't include some criticism or lamenting of the fact that they are so dominant. People like them, but people liked westerns too. Nobody is pretending the MCU is high art or anything.


Or.... Disney have the monopoly and all we can watch is their products? It's like people complaining about 40k: in any articles or discussions there are some criticism and lamenting included and also the fact that is the most dominant wargame. But people like it, that's why it's still the most popular wargame despite all its issues. But is it the real reason why 40k is so popular? I mean is it because people like it, specifically more than any alternative? To me it's because it has the monopoly, just like Disney dominates the action/fantasy movies market.

So yeah nobody is pretending the MCU is high art but don't fool yourself that is grossing that much because people actually loves it. It's grossing those numbers because there's no competition. Same as 40k.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 11:50:08


Post by: Polonius


 John Prins wrote:
There's too much self censorship in the entertainment industry.

Everybody's afraid of getting cancelled.

The studios want to get their movie shown in China.

Both these things create a lot of self-censorship.


I love statements like this, because I'm torn between wondering if it's just a dashed off regurgitation of talking points picked up elsewhere, or a sincere belief about the universe.

You think that self censorship is the number one reason entertainment is not as good as it was? That is such an absurdly bizarre take! Especially since, at least for movies, the reason for the collapse of the mid budget, adult oriented dramas and comedies has been streaming killing the box office for those films. There's a reason they can't make the R rated comedies that were big hits in the 80s and 2000s, it's because movies like that are incapable of being big hits when everbody knows they'll be able to watch them on their couch in six months.

The China thing is real, although I'm not sure how much entertainment broadly would improve if we had more blockbusters that addressed the issue of Taiwan.

And then, finally, the boogie man: cancel culture. So, I'm going to tip you off to something: movies have always been self censored. For decades under the Hayes code, this was literal censorship. (HUAC also cancelled more than a few writers, but whatever). Movies are made by a lot of people, and scripts are approved, daily shoots are approved, final cut is approved. A comedian can go on a local morning radio show with Fungus and Chuckles and say something that crosses a line, but movies are a lot more restrained. I guess, unless you think that the key to entertainment is a combination of gay panic and rape jokes?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Blackie wrote:
Or.... Disney have the monopoly and all we can watch is their products?

So yeah nobody is pretending the MCU is high art but don't fool yourself that is grossing that much because people actually loves it. It's grossing those numbers because there's no competition. Same as 40k.


Disney is not a monopoly. For starters, there is literally another company making superhero movies with a shared universe. Those movies are successful despite the collective assessment being a world weary shrug.

What you mean to say is that Disney is the only company making good superhero movies in a rich shared universe that combines movies with television. That's not a monopoly, that's simply a competitive advantage.



Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 13:20:12


Post by: gorgon


 flamingkillamajig wrote:
@gorgon: Let's be real here though. Mega corporations are far too big again in most types of business. Maybe the big corporations arent as big with movies but a massive corporation break-up by the govt for various things would solve that temporarily at least. Ofc that's getting off topic.


That's a separate discussion from the one regarding creative ideas though. There has never been a better time than now for creators to realize their ideas for movies and television. There are more independent studios and more distribution platforms in addition to more content demand and funding. And there really is less censorship overall.

Now, does this environment lead to better creative works overall? Probably not if you look at it as an average. There's a lot of essentially shovelware being made for streaming in particular. But there's also really good stuff being made out there...it just requires some digging to find it. Horror films -- which came up a little earlier in the discussion -- are great examples. Films like The Witch and Hereditary would probably have never been made 30 years ago...at least probably not in the US.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 14:15:06


Post by: Frazzled




The difference is that people are now praising the MCU as amazing cinema and those films are doing gangbusters.


Wait, who's "that people?" 17 year old males? anyone praising comic movies as amazing cinema are either doing it for the money or ignorant.



40s were Westerns and musicals
50s/60s were Westerns, Sandals epics, the occasional historical blockbuster and movies with Clark Gable.
The early 70s were a dark period bereft of hope, then the holy Spielberg appeared.
This reminds me, in the 80s formula films were the generic muscle guy killing generic badguys with guns or karate kicks...

Now everyone, quit your griping and watch some Bollywood!


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 15:31:25


Post by: Elemental


 Blackie wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
Loads of people criticise MCU films. I've never seen an article or discussion of MCU films that didn't include some criticism or lamenting of the fact that they are so dominant. People like them, but people liked westerns too. Nobody is pretending the MCU is high art or anything.


Or.... Disney have the monopoly and all we can watch is their products? It's like people complaining about 40k: in any articles or discussions there are some criticism and lamenting included and also the fact that is the most dominant wargame. But people like it, that's why it's still the most popular wargame despite all its issues. But is it the real reason why 40k is so popular? I mean is it because people like it, specifically more than any alternative? To me it's because it has the monopoly, just like Disney dominates the action/fantasy movies market.

So yeah nobody is pretending the MCU is high art but don't fool yourself that is grossing that much because people actually loves it. It's grossing those numbers because there's no competition. Same as 40k.


"No, you don't REALLY like the stuff I don't like, you just don't know any better, you barbarian."

Thanks for perfectly illustrating my point.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 15:53:12


Post by: LunarSol


 Elemental wrote:

I do sometimes wonder if the Star Wars prequels are responsible (alongside 9/11) for some of the shape the modern Internet has taken. Super-hyped movies playing on nostalgia, that turned out to be disappointing for most and where the hate quickly shot to super-histrionic levels, right in the days of the early Internet. How much did they do to set the template for modern fandom?


I think less than you'd think. Fans feeling ownership of something and gauging their dedication through the accumulation of trivial knowledge of that fandom has really always been a thing. Comic Book Guy has been a part of the Simpsons since 1991 after all. Sherlock Holmes continued beyond his death in the Final Problem due to fan outrage a century prior. There have always been people like this; its widely believed that Jason Todd was killed by someone with an auto-dialer. The main difference is just that the internet is a perfect place to find like minded people to form an echo chamber around and the comments section is a perfect recipe for dedicated people with too much time on their hands to police the thoughts of others. The latter Web 2.0 is when I saw things shift from an annoyance to a real problem. It was one thing when this kind of behavior was limited to heated debates about trivial content, but adding the comments to every article meant this extended to every topic you could hope to find.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 16:20:19


Post by: trexmeyer


 Frazzled wrote:


The difference is that people are now praising the MCU as amazing cinema and those films are doing gangbusters.


Wait, who's "that people?" 17 year old males? anyone praising comic movies as amazing cinema are either doing it for the money or ignorant.



Are you being facetious or willfully ignorant?


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 16:50:26


Post by: gorgon


 trexmeyer wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:


The difference is that people are now praising the MCU as amazing cinema and those films are doing gangbusters.


Wait, who's "that people?" 17 year old males? anyone praising comic movies as amazing cinema are either doing it for the money or ignorant.



Are you being facetious or willfully ignorant?


I don't know what you're talking about either. I think everyone can agree they do a great job at making fun popcorn films that make a lot of money. Nothing wrong with that at all...it's been part of what Hollywood has done since the beginning. The popcorn films are often what pays for the high art. But Marvel films as high art?



By choosing the words "amazing cinema" you really kind of are suggesting high art. Perhaps that wasn't your intention, which would make your comment potentially make more sense.



Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 16:56:47


Post by: hotsauceman1


Being MCU and good art are not mutually exclusive.
to continue the western allegory, just because something isnt a wester didnt meant is was bad.
like "The Searchers" or lotsa others

Shows today really do hit it out of the park with quality. Just because something is an adaptation doesnt make it bad or good, that is irrelevent when you have to look at the product itself.



Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 17:09:50


Post by: gorgon


 LunarSol wrote:
 Elemental wrote:

I do sometimes wonder if the Star Wars prequels are responsible (alongside 9/11) for some of the shape the modern Internet has taken. Super-hyped movies playing on nostalgia, that turned out to be disappointing for most and where the hate quickly shot to super-histrionic levels, right in the days of the early Internet. How much did they do to set the template for modern fandom?


I think less than you'd think. Fans feeling ownership of something and gauging their dedication through the accumulation of trivial knowledge of that fandom has really always been a thing. Comic Book Guy has been a part of the Simpsons since 1991 after all. Sherlock Holmes continued beyond his death in the Final Problem due to fan outrage a century prior. There have always been people like this; its widely believed that Jason Todd was killed by someone with an auto-dialer. The main difference is just that the internet is a perfect place to find like minded people to form an echo chamber around and the comments section is a perfect recipe for dedicated people with too much time on their hands to police the thoughts of others. The latter Web 2.0 is when I saw things shift from an annoyance to a real problem. It was one thing when this kind of behavior was limited to heated debates about trivial content, but adding the comments to every article meant this extended to every topic you could hope to find.


I think that the internet echo chambers combined with targeted 'news' (which is almost never news but instead usually inflammatory/opinion-reinforcing opinion pieces) to create the monsters we're seeing in everything from entertainment to politics. If it was just one's peers reinforcing one's opinions, it'd be one thing. But to then have more reinforcement coming from "authorities" is what leads to dangerously siloed people. Keeping this conversation to entertainment, even the biggest fan sites do a ton of opinion pile-jumping to get clicks. I don't think they'd really have a viable business if they were strictly reporting geek entertainment news.

I always thought this stuff would resolve itself as people got more sophisticated and learned what was happening to them. Similar to what happened with banner ads after internet newbies grew up and stopped clicking on all of them to see where they led, lol. I have grown more skeptical of that, however.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 17:47:45


Post by: trexmeyer


How does "amazing cinema" become "high art" in your mind? Those two descriptions hardly mean the same thing. It's not even close. You're quite literally tilting at windmills in order to fight against some argument that only exists for you.

The MCU has made over $23B. Nearly every film has 85% on RT. It's the most successful film franchise ever. That doesn't happen when the only fans you have are "17 year old males".


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 17:49:16


Post by: Frazzled


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Being MCU and good art are not mutually exclusive.
to continue the western allegory, just because something isnt a wester didnt meant is was bad.
like "The Searchers" or lotsa others

Shows today really do hit it out of the park with quality. Just because something is an adaptation doesnt make it bad or good, that is irrelevent when you have to look at the product itself.



Very true. Occasionally a movie will break out of the assembly line into greatness. After all, the genre has to have some good works or else it goes away.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 trexmeyer wrote:
How does "amazing cinema" become "high art" in your mind?


Probably because thats what you wrote. Words have meaning.


The MCU has made over $23B. Nearly every film has 85% on RT. It's the most successful film franchise ever. That doesn't happen when the only fans you have are "17 year old males".


You can be a fan and not think of them as great films. African Queen is a great film. The Long Riders is a great film.
Blade was fun, but not a great film. GOTG was fun, but not a great film.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 17:57:24


Post by: AnomanderRake


General advice to the OP on media: What you're describing here is the curse of being high-budget; there are people in suits who insist on making things a) completely inoffensive (therefore taking only the most bland and unarguable positions like "murder bad!"), and b) broadly appealing (therefore telling only stories that are relatable to anyone, regardless of culture, age, etc.), before they'll release the hundred million dollars or whatever you need to make your superhero movie or your AAA video game. If you want to find creativity you need to look for small budgets, indie projects, and things where the creative people aren't getting hamstrung by the marketing machine. Try reading more books; novels aren't expensive to produce, tend to have a single cohesive creative vision rather than a hodgepodge of different interests tugging them in different directions, and they're not so terrified of the social-media outrage machine because the social media outrage machine doesn't have the attention span to read more than 140 characters at a time.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 17:58:31


Post by: Frazzled


And more Bollywood!




Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 18:04:53


Post by: trexmeyer


Amazing:

causing great surprise or wonder; astonishing.


Explain how that word is related to High Art. Do you even know the definition of High Art? You say "words have meaning", but you apparently don't even know what they mean.

You reduce the fans of the MCU to being 17 year old-males and fail to realize that you made a sexist statement.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 18:25:56


Post by: Cronch


 gorgon wrote:

I always thought this stuff would resolve itself as people got more sophisticated and learned what was happening to them. Similar to what happened with banner ads after internet newbies grew up and stopped clicking on all of them to see where they led, lol. I have grown more skeptical of that, however.

It would naturally, but...
Spoiler:


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 18:39:36


Post by: gorgon


 trexmeyer wrote:
How does "amazing cinema" become "high art" in your mind? Those two descriptions hardly mean the same thing. It's not even close. You're quite literally tilting at windmills in order to fight against some argument that only exists for you.

The MCU has made over $23B. Nearly every film has 85% on RT. It's the most successful film franchise ever. That doesn't happen when the only fans you have are "17 year old males".


So we're in agreement then. The Marvel films are an extremely successful, fun, popcorn film series. I don't know who would argue against that. Although your quote was:

That might be true in broad strokes, but it's also a bit of a strawman. Who is going around saying that every generic western made was good? Who is holding up Elvis films as high cinema?

The difference is that people are now praising the MCU as amazing cinema and those films are doing gangbusters


So it did seem as though you were saying that the MCU was in fact high cinema/art...contrasting it against Elvis films. I guess it's now clear that you weren't...? But I don't think any of this is on topic anyway, so I'm going to let this rest.



Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 18:51:50


Post by: Frazzled


You reduce the fans of the MCU to being 17 year old-males and fail to realize that you made a sexist statement.

I didn't. Thats your statement, not mine. A refresher:

The difference is that people are now praising the MCU as amazing cinema and those films are doing gangbusters.

Wait, who's "that people?" 17 year old males? anyone praising comic movies as amazing cinema are either doing it for the money or ignorant.

Fans does not equal praising. Again, you're misreading, but my apologies if you are ESL, as that would explain the problem.
How old are you by the way? I say that as this seems new to you and an older person would see this is not a new phenomenon, as they would have lived through the cycles.

 gorgon wrote:
 trexmeyer wrote:
How does "amazing cinema" become "high art" in your mind? Those two descriptions hardly mean the same thing. It's not even close. You're quite literally tilting at windmills in order to fight against some argument that only exists for you.

The MCU has made over $23B. Nearly every film has 85% on RT. It's the most successful film franchise ever. That doesn't happen when the only fans you have are "17 year old males".


So we're in agreement then. The Marvel films are an extremely successful, fun, popcorn film series. I don't know who would argue against that. Although your quote was:

That might be true in broad strokes, but it's also a bit of a strawman. Who is going around saying that every generic western made was good? Who is holding up Elvis films as high cinema?

The difference is that people are now praising the MCU as amazing cinema and those films are doing gangbusters


So it did seem as though you were saying that the MCU was in fact high cinema/art...contrasting it against Elvis films. I guess it's now clear that you weren't...? But I don't think any of this is on topic anyway, so I'm going to let this rest.



What he said.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 19:08:58


Post by: trexmeyer


Resorting to personal attacks is very mature.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 20:21:55


Post by: Easy E


 gorgon wrote:
Hollywood has never not been about making money, LOL. And actually, studios used to be vertically integrated and MORE powerful, not less. It's far easier for indy studios now than when the big 5 controlled all the theaters. The studios used to own the actors also, and the moguls that sat atop those studios controlled everything.


Totally agree!

 gorgon wrote:
There's never been more -- and more independent -- content than right now. There have never been more 'voices' and 'visions' being heard and created. And if you point to the most commercial stuff...it's not even that different.


Also dead on.

 gorgon wrote:
As Frazz pointed out, superhero films are just Westerns with bigger budgets. Churned out factory-style just the same. And what, formula films are something new? LOL. They go back decades and decades. What do you think all those Elvis movies were? Just a marketable star with a bunch of formula written around him. Easy, quick bucks. Cha-ching.


Not true at all. A western was a single genre with set conventions. Super-hero flicks now-a-days are using a variety of genre conventions. There success is based partly on the fact that they do NOT use a super-hero genre convention all the time. They lean heavily on Origin story conventions, BUT they implant these into different genres such as Heist flicks, Ensemble Team genres, Buddy Cop, Wuxia, Political Thriller, Espionage, etc.

 gorgon wrote:
If there's a problem with entertainment today, it's in the sheer volume of it. It's overwhelming, but also leads us to think our entertainment needs to be "perfect" and tailored for us just like our news and virtual world has become. I've certainly found myself spending half my evening navigating my streaming services to find *just* the right scratch for my itch. In that instance, I've found it's best to just pick SOMETHING and watch it. Sometimes you'll be disappointed, but sometimes you'll be surprised.


Yes, even our entertainment needs have become "entitled" and "privileged". All media should be made for me, or it is crap; or worse "woke".


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 20:24:40


Post by: LunarSol


FWIW, I do think people are a little quick to defend the Marvel films by dismissing them. I get it, a lot of the criticisms of the films are totally valid. Their plots aren't particularly noteworthy and often driven by weak and forgettable villains. Truth be told though, that's the case for quite a few great films because its not really what theater is all about.

What Marvel does right is write characters that people connect to and actors that sell those characters exceedingly well. What happens really doesn't matter at any point, its about who it happens to and how they react. It's the details of Tony agonizing over losing his son that idolized him but he never really heard how proud he was or characters like Thor losing the things they took for granted as being eternal. These are the mechanics of the film, but they're why people care and that's where so many franchise sequels have forgotten what truly made the originals great.

That's not to say that everyone is going to enjoy them. It'd be really weird if they did. There have been plenty of films that didn't connect with me simply because I wasn't emotionally in a place to connect with them. Some of which I love now. There are films that I used to love that I no longer connect with because I've changed. That said, there's way more that's endured audiences to the MCU than it's false sense of continuity and ability to make monkey brain like shiny thing.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 20:39:54


Post by: SkavenLord


I’m moreso observing this conversation rather than participating, but is the MCU the only example that can be used for this discussion?

I think we can all agree that the MCU is one of the big franchises today, but would observing this issue through the lens of another perspective (ex. The recent surge of reboots) offer additional factors for consideration?


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 20:59:02


Post by: gorgon


 Easy E wrote:
Not true at all. A western was a single genre with set conventions. Super-hero flicks now-a-days are using a variety of genre conventions. There success is based partly on the fact that they do NOT use a super-hero genre convention all the time. They lean heavily on Origin story conventions, BUT they implant these into different genres such as Heist flicks, Ensemble Team genres, Buddy Cop, Wuxia, Political Thriller, Espionage, etc.


Well...within Westerns, there are comedies, romantic dramas, family dramas, singing cowboy musicals, martial arts films, team/ensemble cast films, heist plots, revenge plots, empire-building stories, films with supernatural elements, films from the perspective of lawmen, films from the perspectives of outlaws...I can go on. I really think you're drawing lines where almost none exist. Whether it's cowboy hats or multi-colored suits, they're both overlaid onto stories about human beings and their interactions.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 20:59:30


Post by: trexmeyer


 SkavenLord wrote:
I’m moreso observing this conversation rather than participating, but is the MCU the only example that can be used for this discussion?

I think we can all agree that the MCU is one of the big franchises today, but would observing this issue through the lens of another perspective (ex. The recent surge of reboots) offer additional factors for consideration?


Prior to Star Wars the only major film franchise I can think of would be James Bond. The success of Star Wars led to the Star Trek TOS film series and likely contributed to Alien, Predator, and Terminator all transforming into series as their initial films were successes. I feel like Indiana Jones was always intended to be a series, but I may be wrong. We also had Batman and Jurassic Park throughout the 90s and then the success of the X-Men and critical success of the Nolan Batman trilogy paved the way for Iron Man which then transformed into the MCU. The Avengers was a cultural event and essentially a proof of concept (the concept being a cinematic universe, not simply a series). I think it's important to point out that this had not been done before. The closest thing would be Alien vs Predator, but those films were critically reviled.

If Star Wars marked the beginning of franchises, then the MCU has marked the beginning of full-blown cinematic universes, but no one else has matched them. The DC Cinematic Universe is trying and coming up short.

I say this all because, love it or hate it, the MCU has changed the game. Franchises have been around for decades, but not to this degree. I don't think you can have a conversation about the current state of blockbusters without acknowledging that Disney/Marvel is dictating the terms of discussion.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 21:21:16


Post by: LordofHats


 Blackie wrote:
Or.... Disney have the monopoly and all we can watch is their products?


You'd almost think Disney had a gun to your head. If you don't want to watch their products, don't. I skip the overwhelming majority of them these days cause I'm not interested.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 21:29:32


Post by: Lance845


John Wick is a perfectly profitable franchise these days. Original content that just gets another entry as it goes. Good characters. Good story. Great action.

Marvel gets mentioned a bunch because honestly what they have done has never been done before. Nobody has successfully linked 4 films in a cohesive story that has kept the audience gripped and made MORE money as it went along let alone over 20 + TV shows.

I say this fully honestly. There are going to be books written about the MCU. Not fan books showing concept art. Books studying what they actually did to make it all work and succeed. Kevin Feige is going to get a Biography at some point like "Have A Nice Day" for Mic Foley. It's everyones current go to right now because how could it not be?


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 21:51:07


Post by: Easy E


 gorgon wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
Not true at all. A western was a single genre with set conventions. Super-hero flicks now-a-days are using a variety of genre conventions. There success is based partly on the fact that they do NOT use a super-hero genre convention all the time. They lean heavily on Origin story conventions, BUT they implant these into different genres such as Heist flicks, Ensemble Team genres, Buddy Cop, Wuxia, Political Thriller, Espionage, etc.


Well...within Westerns, there are comedies, romantic dramas, family dramas, singing cowboy musicals, martial arts films, team/ensemble cast films, heist plots, revenge plots, empire-building stories, films with supernatural elements, films from the perspective of lawmen, films from the perspectives of outlaws...I can go on. I really think you're drawing lines where almost none exist. Whether it's cowboy hats or multi-colored suits, they're both overlaid onto stories about human beings and their interactions.


A fair point and well made. Perhaps my repertoire of Westerns is too limited.

I would still say that almost all modern movies (big and small) are adaptions of things that have been successful elsewhere. I recently watched an indie film, made in my "former" home town, by a local production company that got distribution from Paramount. Even this film was based on a book that they negotiated the rights for.

It is too much of a risk to make original content that has not proven itself to an audience someplace else.



Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 21:51:51


Post by: LunarSol


 SkavenLord wrote:
I’m moreso observing this conversation rather than participating, but is the MCU the only example that can be used for this discussion?

I think we can all agree that the MCU is one of the big franchises today, but would observing this issue through the lens of another perspective (ex. The recent surge of reboots) offer additional factors for consideration?


I'm not sure if the reboot thing is really the issue people perceive. I suspect it has more to do with the evolution of entertainment away from genre and towards more unique ways to distinguish a property from the competition. When you talk Westerns, you're talking about something based in a certain amount of fact, where rebooting it doesn't make a lot of sense. It's just easier to take the same trappings of the genre, rename the characters and start up your own thing. Same with medieval fairy tales, or spy thrillers or detective mysteries or what have you. It's only fairly recently that having something unique and iconic has been common enough that there's real value in bringing back those unique and iconic elements in a reboot.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 21:57:42


Post by: hotsauceman1


 Easy E wrote:


It is too much of a risk to make original content that has not proven itself to an audience someplace else.


Why?
Did you know of the book beforehand or before you watched it?
If you never have seen the material before, it's still new.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 22:07:03


Post by: Easy E


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 Easy E wrote:


It is too much of a risk to make original content that has not proven itself to an audience someplace else.


Why?
Did you know of the book beforehand or before you watched it?
If you never have seen the material before, it's still new.


It is new.... to you.

However, it has brought in an audience before. With a decent distributor it will continue to appeal to that demographic/segment but just broaden the reach to more of the people in that segment.

The material itself has proven it can find and appeal to an audience all ready so the risk is reduced.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 22:14:12


Post by: LordofHats


 LunarSol wrote:
 SkavenLord wrote:
I’m moreso observing this conversation rather than participating, but is the MCU the only example that can be used for this discussion?

I think we can all agree that the MCU is one of the big franchises today, but would observing this issue through the lens of another perspective (ex. The recent surge of reboots) offer additional factors for consideration?


I'm not sure if the reboot thing is really the issue people perceive. I suspect it has more to do with the evolution of entertainment away from genre and towards more unique ways to distinguish a property from the competition. When you talk Westerns, you're talking about something based in a certain amount of fact, where rebooting it doesn't make a lot of sense. It's just easier to take the same trappings of the genre, rename the characters and start up your own thing. Same with medieval fairy tales, or spy thrillers or detective mysteries or what have you. It's only fairly recently that having something unique and iconic has been common enough that there's real value in bringing back those unique and iconic elements in a reboot.


IP laws and the consolidation of IP rights shouldn't be assumed to have no role.

50 years ago, when a movie hit blockbuster status, there'd be dozens of studios and production houses looking to cash in on that discovered current of interest in the audience. You'd get a dozen efforts looking to both replicate success and carve out their own niche. As IPs have become increasingly consolidated into fewer and fewer hands, the shift has predictably shifted to developing IP for its own distinct qualities and away from a mass market looking to replicate its own iterations of those ideas for their own ends.

There is a strong argument to be made that copyright laws as they currently exist, have become stifling to the creation of new creative property. After all, why try and compete with Marvel and DC when between the two of them they completely command the market and anything you do will look like a cheap knock off in comparison? Why should Disney take a risk on a new IP when it can just acquire one people already like and do it right? In some ways its easy to point at Disney and say 'you're the problem' especially since they're heavily responsible for the current copyright paradigms, but I think simply shouting 'boo Disney how dare they make popular stuff' is pretty goofy. Disney is at this point a symptom of a problem Disney made long ago, but Disney isn't the only party to that system anymore. We all are. Company's don't take risks because as much as people bitch about the endless recycling of content, box office dollars prove time and time again that even mediocre crap from an established IP is more profitably reliable than something new and unless Disney has a gun to anyone's head that's kind of our fault as consumers.

We'll bitch about it, but we like seeing the same old gak and it's patent denial to pretend otherwise.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 22:37:15


Post by: Goose LeChance


Who's we?

As far as westerns go, you won't be seeing them or any other period pieces ever again in a theatre. It's a hard sell to a global market, the best you can hope for is turds like The Magnificent Seven(2016) and King Arthur (2004/2017)

The MCU is just bland and safe enough to appeal to a very large demographic without offending anyone. Including that all important Chinese money.



Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 22:47:14


Post by: trexmeyer


You may not be included in it, but enough people are implicit in the system for it to continue on with minimal deviation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Goose LeChance wrote:
Who's we?

As far as westerns go, you won't be seeing them or any other period pieces ever again in a theatre. It's a hard sell to a global market, the best you can hope for is turds like The Magnificent Seven(2016) and King Arthur (2004/2017)

The MCU is just bland and safe enough to appeal to a very large demographic without offending anyone. Including that all important Chinese money.



In the last 20 years we have had Gladiator, Master and Commander, The Last Samurai, The Green Knight, The Witch, The Lighthouse, Gangs of New York, There Will Be Blood, The Prestige, Shutter Island, The Illusionist, Emma, etc. Are those not all period pieces to a degree?


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 22:55:24


Post by: Goose LeChance


They are but we're not going to get another Gladiator or Gangs of New York. It's the era of Harry Potter and Spiderman.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/15 22:58:01


Post by: flamingkillamajig


 Easy E wrote:


 gorgon wrote:
If there's a problem with entertainment today, it's in the sheer volume of it. It's overwhelming, but also leads us to think our entertainment needs to be "perfect" and tailored for us just like our news and virtual world has become. I've certainly found myself spending half my evening navigating my streaming services to find *just* the right scratch for my itch. In that instance, I've found it's best to just pick SOMETHING and watch it. Sometimes you'll be disappointed, but sometimes you'll be surprised.


Yes, even our entertainment needs have become "entitled" and "privileged". All media should be made for me, or it is crap; or worse "woke".


I'll only slightly touch on this because i'd rather not have a thread lock. Amazingly we've gotten to like 4 pages with this without serious arguments so good job everybody!

As far as entitled and privileged goes that's sorta true but some may say being rich or being a big middle eastern prince with mounds of oil and personal cruise boats is privileged. I suppose in the West we've mostly been catered to and now that the potential market has extended beyond the West more ways of thinking will have to be considered and they don't always mesh together like Chocolate and Peanut Butter.

As entertainment goes it's been said previously but the global market is getting a bigger look at by the entertainment industry in some ways. Yeah they saw movies like Star Wars before but how well can a movie cater to the "woke" and china at the same time.

For what it's worth i may not be fond of what's "woke" though i find some people who are to still be decent people overall and to actually be people i'd still chat or be friends with (unbelievable in current year as we all know). One of my bigger issues with what's "woke" is in movies, tv and businesses in general and the way they pander and do it horribly. I'm autistic and i can't stand the way movies portray autistic people 90% of the time (they usually highlight the social awkwardness, the autism and give us super-human intelligence). I watched a youtube video where a Trans Woman goes into detail about how a tv show turned gay or trans people into walking stereotypes and she absolutely hated it. Other commenters said the same.

I also hate how corporations have commodified race, sex, gender identity and so on....but only in countries it's profitable to do so as shown by their branches in the middle east or china (and just about all of them do this btw). It feels like it's something like this. "Diversity can be yours for the Low, Low Price of 3 payments of $19.99+shipping and handling!" It's just disgusting to watch. I just wish people would view their inborn characteristics as worth more to them than making a few bucks off of.

-----

Anyway i apologize for bringing some politics into this but it seems to be simmering just under the surface right now. Hopefully you understand it's more the way companies and entertainment portray political situations that bugs me. I'll admit i'm wondering if i should delete some of what i'm posting to prevent an early thread lock.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/16 00:12:12


Post by: Tyran


The thing about corporations is that while a corporation as a whole only cares about money, corporations are still made of people and they are not a hive mind.
So you have multiple different people from differing backgrounds, interests and views competing withing a corporation. The name of the competition is profit, but the competitors are not necessarily competing for profit.
On one hand you have corporate business(wo)men who may only care about diversity in function of profit, and on the other you also have content creators with a genuine interest in diversity for the sake of diversity (but still need to generate profit for their corporate masters).

And that leads to two different types of diversity in entertainment. There is the token diversity made by corporate committee, which usually manifests as token characters that can be modularly removed to sell on more conservative markets, and there is the rarer but more genuine diverse characters because the creator personally cares about diversity. And you can find both examples even from the same company. I mean, on one hand you have the MCU with a blink and you miss it gay character, and on the other you have the Owl House with a bisexual protagonist (written by a bisexual creator), and both are from Disney.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/16 01:38:41


Post by: Lance845


Goose LeChance wrote:
Who's we?

As far as westerns go, you won't be seeing them or any other period pieces ever again in a theatre. It's a hard sell to a global market, the best you can hope for is turds like The Magnificent Seven(2016) and King Arthur (2004/2017)

The MCU is just bland and safe enough to appeal to a very large demographic without offending anyone. Including that all important Chinese money.



Shang Chi apparently pissed china right off. They refuse to play it in theaters.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/16 01:50:05


Post by: LordofHats


Reportedly, Simu Liu made negative comments about life in China a few years back and we know how China feels about that.

China's also reportedly pushing new policies meant to prioritize Chinese films and actors in the country, which will diminish or shut out the release of foreign films with foreign stars. Turns out the Chinese state doesn't really care about how much you pander to them when all the profits from your work ultimately go overseas.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/16 01:54:00


Post by: Grimskul


They're also generally cracking down on any Western influences in general, so its unsurprising that Western movies aren't being allowed, even if they're made to pander to the Chinese market. It's almost like you shouldn't try investing money in foreign dictatorial powers.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/16 02:01:05


Post by: LordofHats


 Grimskul wrote:
They're also generally cracking down on any Western influences in general, so its unsurprising that Western movies aren't being allowed, even if they're made to pander to the Chinese market. It's almost like you shouldn't try investing money in foreign dictatorial powers.


At least, not those that are unwilling to tolerate anything even approaching short of blinding praise. The best part is that some of these laws even exclude actors from Hong Kong. And after all the shilling Yifei Liu did for Mulan.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/16 03:47:02


Post by: Grimskul


 LordofHats wrote:
 Grimskul wrote:
They're also generally cracking down on any Western influences in general, so its unsurprising that Western movies aren't being allowed, even if they're made to pander to the Chinese market. It's almost like you shouldn't try investing money in foreign dictatorial powers.


At least, not those that are unwilling to tolerate anything even approaching short of blinding praise. The best part is that some of these laws even exclude actors from Hong Kong. And after all the shilling Yifei Liu did for Mulan.


Yeah, its hilarious seeing people who sucked up to China so hard get slapped down so quickly and harshly despite all their efforts. Unfortunately, if history has taught me anything, this won't teach them anything and they'll keep trying to chase the money dragon another way.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/16 06:28:40


Post by: Blackie


 Polonius wrote:


What you mean to say is that Disney is the only company making good superhero movies in a rich shared universe that combines movies with television. That's not a monopoly, that's simply a competitive advantage.



That's not what I meant, MCU aren't good films in my opinion. I meant they have much more power and resources than other companies, that's how they have the advantage. Exactly like 40k: it isn't the only game around, it isn't probably even the better one but GW is more powerful than other companies.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/16 06:32:37


Post by: Goose LeChance


 LordofHats wrote:
Reportedly, Simu Liu made negative comments about life in China a few years back and we know how China feels about that.

China's also reportedly pushing new policies meant to prioritize Chinese films and actors in the country, which will diminish or shut out the release of foreign films with foreign stars. Turns out the Chinese state doesn't really care about how much you pander to them when all the profits from your work ultimately go overseas.


If that happens it's not all bad, more Countries should ban Hollywood's junk. They'd be better off without it, and maybe we could get some real movies/variety again when there are no worldwide box office profits to chase.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/16 06:34:38


Post by: Blackie


 Elemental wrote:


"No, you don't REALLY like the stuff I don't like, you just don't know any better, you barbarian."

Thanks for perfectly illustrating my point.


Yes and no. I mean when something like MCU is so dominant (like 40k in wargaming) lots of other stuff don't get the same attention a people may lose them, regardless of how good these alternatives are. On the other hand not many producers are investing time and money in such aforementioned alternatives considering how strong the Disney brand is. So in part it is ignorance, but in part there's also the fact that not many companies invest in blockbusters as much as Disney, and something like the MCU doesn't really have strong alternatives. It doesn't mean is actually good and people loves it.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/16 07:45:15


Post by: moreorless


 Blackie wrote:
 Elemental wrote:


"No, you don't REALLY like the stuff I don't like, you just don't know any better, you barbarian."

Thanks for perfectly illustrating my point.


Yes and no. I mean when something like MCU is so dominant (like 40k in wargaming) lots of other stuff don't get the same attention a people may lose them, regardless of how good these alternatives are. On the other hand not many producers are investing time and money in such aforementioned alternatives considering how strong the Disney brand is. So in part it is ignorance, but in part there's also the fact that not many companies invest in blockbusters as much as Disney, and something like the MCU doesn't really have strong alternatives. It doesn't mean is actually good and people loves it.


I don't think you could say that the MCU is so dominant that its stopping anything else from being made, your talking 3-4 films a year in a time were box office is much more front loaded and films only need 2-3 weeks to make a big return.

Marvel itself like Pixar I actually think is actually one of the more creative bright spots in Hollywood in recent decades, its films maybe based on comics but really the vast majority of them arent widely known, only Spiderman and the Hulk had previously had blockbusters made with them and something like Guardians of the Galaxy was a near total unknown to most of the public. DIsney's path to dominance really was that you had these new studios on the rise taking more risks than the existing establishment was and they were able to buy them out to piggyback on that, such monopolistic behavior really isnt unique to the film business though.

Really I think the main problem with Hollywood is that its obsessed with mega blockbusters, the idea of mid budget cinema that takes some creative risks really has gone into steep decline outside of a few well know directors. Cinema now to be actually feels a lot like the music business in the 80's were you had your massive stadium artists and then you had an almost totally seperate culture of alt/indie music. The arthouse scene today is I think quite similar to that, very much seperate from big hollywood and it means you have a situation were films seem to either have $2 million or $200 million budgets, were directors like Zhao, Waititi, Gunn, etc move from one extreme to the other.

I'd say theres good and bad to that personally, I think its actually easier to get a budget for genuinely left field cinema these days than it has been since at leats the 60's BUT it is mostly limited to relatively small budgets and it doesnt tend to make the same cultural inroads as in the past, something like say Taxi Driver became a cultural lexicon in a way something like Under The Skin hasnt.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/16 08:22:44


Post by: Blackie


moreorless wrote:


I don't think you could say that the MCU is so dominant that its stopping anything else from being made, your talking 3-4 films a year in a time were box office is much more front loaded and films only need 2-3 weeks to make a big return.


Well it's actually 3-4 MCU blockbusters plus other Disney stuff. Note that also Star Wars and Pixar are Disney stuff, among other things. And there's a lot of people who really don't go to theatres to watch mainstream movies more than once per month, at most. It might be personal and biased but I go to theatres basically twice per month and me and my films' group are considered by most of my other friends and relatives like someone that always go to the cinema . We actually watch 20-25 movies per year at the theatre, including indie stuff.

It doesn't matter if comics are known. Who knew about Shang Chi for example???? Or even Black Panther. But with the MCU label they become the main attraction of the month. MCU is about quantity over quality and serializing the movies in order to convince people to watch their movies to avoid missing parts and references. Same with SW: a lot of people watch the new movies even if they hated the previous episodes since the franchise is super strong and even if the last good movie was released almost 40 years ago they still want to have knowledge of that universe. That's Disney's superpower.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/16 08:49:59


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I strongly disagree that the MCU is lacking on quality.

This isn’t some weird fashion thing. Not after this long.

The MCU has taken pains to ensure that, barring Infinity War and Endgame, people can drop in and drop out as they wish, with no need to see every single entry.

Like Pratchett’s Discworld, there is a benefit to starting at the beginning and watching/reading in release order - but it’s not completely necessary.

For instance, Sam Vimes and Tony Stark both develop over their starring roles. Yet one can pick up any Discworld book about The Watch, or any given Iron Man film and not have gaps in that entry’s narrative. Yes you do gain a better appreciation following their adventures chronologically, but each does a good enough job to not only satisfy on its own, but encourage further reading/viewing.

The most remarkable thing about the MCU isn’t so much it’s success (which absolutely is remarkable), but that nobody else has really come close to replicating the formula.

I think part of that may be down to Studios not hitting MCU money straight off the bat.

Let’s consider the Universal “Dark Universe”. I was up for that. I loved and still love the first two Brendan Fraser Mummy films. The third is a bit shonky but still not completely disastrous. And I’m a sucker for their first monster movies.

Then came the first entry. 2017’s The Mummy. Now, it wasn’t a great film, and was justifiably panned upon release. But when we compare it’s budget and box office take to Iron Man?

The Mummy. Budget estimated to be $125m-$195m. Box office $410m. Not a massive hit, but not a loss either (once we factor in the marketing costs)

Iron Man. Budget estimated to be $140m. Box office? $585m. That was the followed by The Incredible Hulk. $137m budget, $264m box office.

Imagine if the MCU called it a day after Incredible Hulk? I mean, it’s not a great film, and it didn’t do all that well at the Box Office. But the plug wasn’t pulled on the wider project as a result - and now we end up where we are.

It feels as if a nascent franchise isn’t making a Billion with its first movie, the Studios just walk away.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/16 11:42:33


Post by: Blackie


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


Then came the first entry. 2017’s The Mummy. Now, it wasn’t a great film, and was justifiably panned upon release. But when we compare it’s budget and box office take to Iron Man?

The Mummy. Budget estimated to be $125m-$195m. Box office $410m. Not a massive hit, but not a loss either (once we factor in the marketing costs)

Iron Man. Budget estimated to be $140m. Box office? $585m. That was the followed by The Incredible Hulk. $137m budget, $264m box office.



I don't think The Mummy (2017) is a masterpiece, really not at all, but I liked it much more than most of the MCU episodes. And was definitely way better than anything SW related that came after Return of the Jedi. The Mummy is considered an awful movie, 15% fresh on RottenTomatoes and with a ton of Razzie Awards nominations but I can't really see it as much worse than the average MCU episode, which on the other hand are never considered this level of bad from the critics, not even remotely.

The Mummy and Iron Man could have similar numbers, but the latter is not just a movie, it's a long term investment. It's part of an infinite amount of episodes, all related to the same universe and not all the producers can afford this strategy or are willing to try it. If a MCU episode doesn't gross enough it's no big deal, the franchise is still strong and the next episode won't suffer from it. Same with SW. Marvel invested in the franchise, not in the movies. That's how they dominated the scene and will dominate for long.

I'm not saying MCU movies are bad. I watch them all as I think they're entertaining enough to get my money. But I don't believe they're so popular because they're very good. I compared MCU (Disney products in general to be fair) to 40k as I think they are popular, successful and dominate their field for the very same reasons.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/16 12:18:39


Post by: Frazzled


moreorless wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
 Elemental wrote:


"No, you don't REALLY like the stuff I don't like, you just don't know any better, you barbarian."

Thanks for perfectly illustrating my point.


Yes and no. I mean when something like MCU is so dominant (like 40k in wargaming) lots of other stuff don't get the same attention a people may lose them, regardless of how good these alternatives are. On the other hand not many producers are investing time and money in such aforementioned alternatives considering how strong the Disney brand is. So in part it is ignorance, but in part there's also the fact that not many companies invest in blockbusters as much as Disney, and something like the MCU doesn't really have strong alternatives. It doesn't mean is actually good and people loves it.


I don't think you could say that the MCU is so dominant that its stopping anything else from being made, your talking 3-4 films a year in a time were box office is much more front loaded and films only need 2-3 weeks to make a big return.

Marvel itself like Pixar I actually think is actually one of the more creative bright spots in Hollywood in recent decades, its films maybe based on comics but really the vast majority of them arent widely known, only Spiderman and the Hulk had previously had blockbusters made with them and something like Guardians of the Galaxy was a near total unknown to most of the public. DIsney's path to dominance really was that you had these new studios on the rise taking more risks than the existing establishment was and they were able to buy them out to piggyback on that, such monopolistic behavior really isnt unique to the film business though.

Really I think the main problem with Hollywood is that its obsessed with mega blockbusters, the idea of mid budget cinema that takes some creative risks really has gone into steep decline outside of a few well know directors. Cinema now to be actually feels a lot like the music business in the 80's were you had your massive stadium artists and then you had an almost totally seperate culture of alt/indie music. The arthouse scene today is I think quite similar to that, very much seperate from big hollywood and it means you have a situation were films seem to either have $2 million or $200 million budgets, were directors like Zhao, Waititi, Gunn, etc move from one extreme to the other.

I'd say theres good and bad to that personally, I think its actually easier to get a budget for genuinely left field cinema these days than it has been since at leats the 60's BUT it is mostly limited to relatively small budgets and it doesnt tend to make the same cultural inroads as in the past, something like say Taxi Driver became a cultural lexicon in a way something like Under The Skin hasnt.


Excellent points. It will be interesting to see if or how the ongoing pandemic changes things. Not certain if tentpoles do as well on the small screen.

On the positive, watched The Courier last night. Didn't realize that was based on real people. It threw me.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/16 14:06:54


Post by: LunarSol


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

The most remarkable thing about the MCU isn’t so much it’s success (which absolutely is remarkable), but that nobody else has really come close to replicating the formula.


The biggest mistake almost everyone makes is focusing on continuity over the film itself. You have these drawn out scenes of pointless exposition and teases for films that probably won't even happen and they drag down the film to the point where its a chore to watch. The MCU almost exclusively leaves this stuff to the post credit scenes and building off background Easter eggs. The few times it hasn't have been some of the low points in the franchise (Iron Man 2, Thor's sidequest in Ultron, etc). Most attempts to replicate the MCU turn out to be Iron Man 2's or Thor 2's and the like. They focus on the shared universe rather than making great films that just happen to belong together.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/16 15:24:24


Post by: gorgon


Cronch wrote:
 gorgon wrote:

I always thought this stuff would resolve itself as people got more sophisticated and learned what was happening to them. Similar to what happened with banner ads after internet newbies grew up and stopped clicking on all of them to see where they led, lol. I have grown more skeptical of that, however.

It would naturally, but...
Spoiler:


I think it's much more wide-ranging than 'big, bad corporations'. I feel like like their interests are very focused and less intentionally sinister, to be honest with you. There are governments and political dark money groups, etc very involved. And there are individual agents of chaos who are real wild cards. Those are more troubling actors, IMO.

I'm not sure how we pull things back to some sense of shared reality when people's itches are getting scratched more by their pocket realities. It's like the Matrix (or Matrices) are here, but in more of an augmented reality form that most didn't see coming.

Think this is getting off-topic though.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/16 17:30:56


Post by: Tyran


 Blackie wrote:

That's not what I meant, MCU aren't good films in my opinion. I meant they have much more power and resources than other companies, that's how they have the advantage. Exactly like 40k: it isn't the only game around, it isn't probably even the better one but GW is more powerful than other companies.


Disney isn't even the largest entertainment company, Comcast almost doubles its revenue.
Disney is big, but it exist in a very big ocean with some other very big fishes.



Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/16 21:34:01


Post by: LordofHats


I definitely agree that mainstream entertainment producers are too focused on big budget projects. Part of that is understandable as cameras and technology have made producing cheap films using old tricks increasingly accessible so the indie market has kind of encroached there. A big part of their risk assessments though seem needlessly focused on tying budget to return (as in, low budget + low return) when I feel like Deadpool should have proven outright that a creative passion project can produce huge returns on a small budget if they just get the right people involved.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/16 23:05:07


Post by: flamingkillamajig


 Blackie wrote:
 Polonius wrote:


What you mean to say is that Disney is the only company making good superhero movies in a rich shared universe that combines movies with television. That's not a monopoly, that's simply a competitive advantage.



That's not what I meant, MCU aren't good films in my opinion. I meant they have much more power and resources than other companies, that's how they have the advantage. Exactly like 40k: it isn't the only game around, it isn't probably even the better one but GW is more powerful than other companies.


Kinda like Raid Shadow Legends ? I'm admittedly not into those types of games but I hear it's like that. Man that's a story of succeeding by advertising something into oblivion compared to everybody else.

If I recall people often compare GWs current standing as bloated and massive but losing ground....or at least before new management fixed things for a few years followed by insane copyright restrictions all over again. GW sure seems to hate their fan community don't they?


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/17 02:26:42


Post by: Flipsiders


 Tyran wrote:
 Blackie wrote:

That's not what I meant, MCU aren't good films in my opinion. I meant they have much more power and resources than other companies, that's how they have the advantage. Exactly like 40k: it isn't the only game around, it isn't probably even the better one but GW is more powerful than other companies.


Disney isn't even the largest entertainment company, Comcast almost doubles its revenue.
Disney is big, but it exist in a very big ocean with some other very big fishes.



Comcast is a large entertainment company in the same way Games Workshop is a large magazine publisher. It's not a fair comparison by any means.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/17 03:45:07


Post by: Tyran


 Flipsiders wrote:



Comcast is a large entertainment company in the same way Games Workshop is a large magazine publisher. It's not a fair comparison by any means.

I don't think GW is a large magazine publisher in any way.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/17 04:35:04


Post by: flamingkillamajig


 LordofHats wrote:
I definitely agree that mainstream entertainment producers are too focused on big budget projects. Part of that is understandable as cameras and technology have made producing cheap films using old tricks increasingly accessible so the indie market has kind of encroached there. A big part of their risk assessments though seem needlessly focused on tying budget to return (as in, low budget + low return) when I feel like Deadpool should have proven outright that a creative passion project can produce huge returns on a small budget if they just get the right people involved.


I found it funnier The Joker movie had a larger net gain and less investment than the avengers movie at around the same time. I guess The Joker had the last laugh.

Which is exactly what we agree on here. You can have a great film with a much smaller budget. Sure you don't get some cool set piece battles but the first film should almost always be the cheapest one to make. That way if it fails no big loss. If it does really well then maybe step up costs a bit. Ofc i suppose sequels are doing that but they arent doing small productiins for new series.

I think I'll take frazzled advice about looking for more low budget series or movies.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/17 04:37:03


Post by: LordofHats


The Joker is another good example. It doesn't even belong in the same league as the other DCU films. It's too fething good for the slop Warner Brothers keeps throwing out in a vein attempt to chase the MCU's success and it's good largely because it did something completely different.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/17 04:42:14


Post by: flamingkillamajig


 LordofHats wrote:
The Joker is another good example. It doesn't even belong in the same league as the other DCU films. It's too fething good for the slop Warner Brothers keeps throwing out in a vein attempt to chase the MCU's success and it's good largely because it did something completely different.


It sounded like it made the tragic villain backstory popular. Note I didn't say start but merely popularized it just enough for Disney to try it more and Disney probably did it before Joker. Oddly it seems they did it right where Disney did it wrong and Disney owns the MCU.

As far as series that have gone on forever James Bond while somewhat timeless is also likely repetitive. I used to like it, then cared little for it and then now I don't know if I should watch the old movies. Many people prefer assassin Bond to the gadget and over the top villain James Bond movies.

Also on the subject of trying to copy success is that a copy often feels cheaper esp. in something with a solid story, good ideas, interesting messages and concepts. The Matrix is definitely up there ticking all those bubbles but I don't know if those same ideas can be applied and still feel interesting and new. I still feel like neo and trinity weren't the best romantic duo as far as how well they mesh together and the idea of using humans as batteries sounds horribly inefficient even if it was as part of another thing to turn them into a human battery. Still horrifying tho.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/17 04:50:06


Post by: Flipsiders


 Tyran wrote:
 Flipsiders wrote:



Comcast is a large entertainment company in the same way Games Workshop is a large magazine publisher. It's not a fair comparison by any means.

I don't think GW is a large magazine publisher in any way.


Another poster here said they recently found issues of White Dwarf for sale in Walmart, which means that the publication is larger than at least 90% of magazines sold in the United States by default.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/17 04:55:49


Post by: LordofHats


I would say Joker makes a brutal and nuanced attack that both presents a complete maniac as sympathetic, while at the same time mincing no words about how they are in fact a maniac and that maniacs can be shockingly charismatic because of their madness.

Joker isn't just a tragic villain origin story. IMO, that's completely short selling Phoenix's convincing performance of a man on the cliff of insanity, flanked by crippling isolation and maliciously casual cruelty on one side, and an uncaring society on the other. The film brutally depicts the way the world both allows and fosters derangement in a certain kind of person and how this is both an individual and social tragedy. More than that, it makes multiple points of showing all the ways Arthur could have not become Joker and the ways his vulnerability itself produced the dismissals that left him floundering and stumbling into a self-detonation. I think comparisons made to Taxi Driver are very apt. It's the same kind of movie presenting many of the same themes to a new generation of movie goer but in a new shell.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/17 05:20:42


Post by: flamingkillamajig


I always thought The Joker was in short a tragic story of mental illness and society being uncaring or even malicious to not understanding it. There's probably more to it than that but it was from his perspective. I can definitely dig movies about mental illness in some ways if they're done like Fight Club, The Joker or similar.

I suppose you kind of said that but I just saw mental disorder being the biggest obvious part of it. Rather disgusted some Saturday night live idiots were so far off point making fun of the point of it.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/17 05:39:18


Post by: GoldenHorde


 LordofHats wrote:
The Joker is another good example. It doesn't even belong in the same league as the other DCU films. It's too fething good for the slop Warner Brothers keeps throwing out in a vein attempt to chase the MCU's success and it's good largely because it did something completely different.


Joker was an actual film unlike the corporate theme park franchise films


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/17 05:59:48


Post by: hotsauceman1


Y'know what has alot of good unique shows with interesting premises?
Netflix
Seriously.
They found their niche, they are not making big budget adaptations on the lvl of Amazon or apple
But they are giving smaller and more nuanced voices their chance to shine.
Centaurworld, Arlo, Troll hunters, Witcher, Queens Gambit, The Crown and so much more.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/17 07:27:37


Post by: Blackie


 GoldenHorde wrote:
 LordofHats wrote:
The Joker is another good example. It doesn't even belong in the same league as the other DCU films. It's too fething good for the slop Warner Brothers keeps throwing out in a vein attempt to chase the MCU's success and it's good largely because it did something completely different.


Joker was an actual film unlike the corporate theme park franchise films


Exactly, Joker was an exception.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Y'know what has alot of good unique shows with interesting premises?
Netflix
Seriously.
They found their niche, they are not making big budget adaptations on the lvl of Amazon or apple
But they are giving smaller and more nuanced voices their chance to shine.
Centaurworld, Arlo, Troll hunters, Witcher, Queens Gambit, The Crown and so much more.


I've been a movie guy for my entire life, except the last 3-4 years, in which I basically became a tv series guy. I get the OP's feelings about entertainment and about movies I definitely feel the same. There are a lot of shows that can be watched at home that are simply amazing though, not only those from Netflix. In my opinion stories are way better written in tv series than in the movies, especially if we consider the mainstream shows (both movies and tv series). For example I loved Netflix Marvel series much more than the MCU movies, The Punisher and Daredevil in particular. The Mandalorian is considered better than any recent SW episode pretty much by everyone.

Focussing on a few tv series could be a nice suggestion for someone that is looking for new ways of spending his free time, if other sources of entertainment don't seem to do their job anymore. Worked for me.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/17 17:04:25


Post by: hotsauceman1


I think a problem is people are just less likely to try something new or different


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/17 17:06:01


Post by: LunarSol


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Y'know what has alot of good unique shows with interesting premises?
Netflix
Seriously.
They found their niche, they are not making big budget adaptations on the lvl of Amazon or apple
But they are giving smaller and more nuanced voices their chance to shine.
Centaurworld, Arlo, Troll hunters, Witcher, Queens Gambit, The Crown and so much more.


Generally speaking, the main reason movies all seem to be Blockbusters these days is just that those are the experiences people feel are "worth" going to theater for. The quieter, more intimate movies have significant competition from TV that has increasingly moved towards the mini series format that is possibly better than feature length for character exploration or just direct films, which more and more don't require a Hollywood budget for similar output. Out of all the quieter films releases in a year, there may be 1, maybe 3 that have the kind of cinematography and sound design worth seeing in a theater, and sadly, most audiences have no means of identifying those films from basic television.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/17 18:27:30


Post by: gorgon


Yeah, in an era when people have home theaters with giant UHD TVs and theater-style seating -- or even just big TVs and comfy couches -- movies need to be more of an experience to get people out and paying today's prices.

Sports are having some of the same issues, FYI. Pre-COVID attendance was down in most US sports for the same basic reason. Why sit in hot or cold weather or precipitation if you can watch it at home with all those comforts around you? Personally, I think attending games is worth it...even in weather, etc. It's what makes the experience. But not everyone agrees. I'm a season ticket holder of an NFL team that doesn't even have too many attendance issues, and I'm continually getting surveys from them asking about my fan experience. The NFL is watching that stuff like a hawk.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/17 20:48:50


Post by: LordofHats


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Y'know what has alot of good unique shows with interesting premises?
Netflix
Seriously.
They found their niche, they are not making big budget adaptations on the lvl of Amazon or apple
But they are giving smaller and more nuanced voices their chance to shine.
Centaurworld, Arlo, Troll hunters, Witcher, Queens Gambit, The Crown and so much more.


My main beef with Netlfix is that they have lots of shows with great premises.

Then they run most of those premises into the ground. No. I'm not bitter about October Faction. Why would I be bitter about a show that promised me monster hunting and supernatural horror and then jerked me around with a series of teenage melodrama bs that devolved into a string of tired cliches that became tired cliches 20 years ago when a couple dozen Urban Fantasy YA novels did the exact same plot but better?

The Crown is pretty great though, I'm not really that bitter I just think Netflixes produces a hell of a lot more chaffe than gems.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/17 20:54:18


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 gorgon wrote:
Yeah, in an era when people have home theaters with giant UHD TVs and theater-style seating -- or even just big TVs and comfy couches -- movies need to be more of an experience to get people out and paying today's prices.

Sports are having some of the same issues, FYI. Pre-COVID attendance was down in most US sports for the same basic reason. Why sit in hot or cold weather or precipitation if you can watch it at home with all those comforts around you? Personally, I think attending games is worth it...even in weather, etc. It's what makes the experience. But not everyone agrees. I'm a season ticket holder of an NFL team that doesn't even have too many attendance issues, and I'm continually getting surveys from them asking about my fan experience. The NFL is watching that stuff like a hawk.


I’m not a sports fan, but have always enjoyed the atmosphere in the stadium at football matches. My Dad used to take me to see Hearts play as a kid, and occasionally visit local teams for something different to do.

Indeed most of my distaste comes from drunken idiots shouting at the screen in the pub, ruining my quiet drinkies! Though the World Cup is an exception. As are the current England team, who are thoroughly decent people.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/22 16:50:52


Post by: tauist


For me its the opposite when it comes to sports. I think it's one of the most boring things to watch on TV, yet when you're actually there in the event, its much more visceral and engaging even for a guy who hates sports like me.

I'm too late to this thread, but just my two tuppence's worth on the subject. Jaded? I hate most of the "entertainment" dross coming out these days. Its all production values and trying hard to impress, and not enough story. If cinematic entertainment wants to evolve, we need good stories.

Hanging out in art galleries and watching obscure indie movies might sound pretentious, but at least those things have some substance to them unlike the corporate entertainment media universe.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/22 18:05:22


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I’d argue that there’s absolutely nothing wrong with pop culture brain bubblegum cinema.

To kinda quote Beavis and Butthead? If everything was arthouse and thought provoking? How we would know it for what it is?

Just because something is indy and/or arthouse does not meant it’s good, at all. Rather too much is simply pretentious nonsense for the sake of being pretentious.

Like modern art, I don’t have the time, or want to spend the time, riddling out “but what does it actually mean?”. I want to be entertained.

That could be a really solidly made film with no flaws the man in the street would be bothered about. It could be a deliberately or unintentionally crap B-Movie. If it invests my attention, whether I’m laughing with it or at it, it’s done it’s job, however unintentional.

I’ve seen arthouse stuff, I’ve seen indy stuff. And for my tastes it’s entirely too far up it’s own arse for its own good.

Some of it is very good, and serves to genuinely entertain. But if, like much of modern art, it requires a self appointed “connoisseur” of the genre to explain it to me? It’s not art. It’s crap. Especially given such explanations seem to come with a hefty amount of condescension. As if the whole point is for people who at least pretend to “get it” to have the chance to talk down to people who watched it and wondered “what the heck was that rubbish about!”


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let’s use Robocop as an example.

As a kid from that era (though much too young to have seen it), it was just a glorious hyper violent gun fest.

As I’ve grown, learned and matured? I can see the sharp as you like satire behind it all. The American Jesus. The snappy dialogue (Emil encountering Robocop, freaking out because “we killed you man, you’re dead” and Murphy’s tagline of “dead or alive, you’re coming with me” being gloriously inverted.

Like Starship Troopers, it’s an excellent form of satire, because you don’t need to get the joke to enjoy the film. You want to see it solely as a daft but well made action film? You’ll get s daft but well made action flick. But. If you care to scratch the surface? There’s a whole rabbit hole of stuff to explore and discuss.



Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/22 18:50:32


Post by: Goose LeChance


Hopefully Disney's reign of terror ends soon so we can get back to it


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/22 18:52:52


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Oh bless your little cotton socks.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/28 23:53:47


Post by: privateer4hire


Lordofhats said. “ …My main beef with Netlfix is that they have lots of shows with great premises…”

Agreed with that being a trend with many services. Seeing trailers all the time for what looks like a cool movie only to find they’re going to drag 2 hours worth of idea into a full season.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/09/29 00:03:07


Post by: LordofHats


That's a whole other kettle of fish for me.

I think I really only started to comprehend it because of fanfiction of all things, but some ideas just don't have the gas to go longer than X amount of time. Trying to drag them out actually ends up feeling even worse than padding.

I don't think Netflix shows necessarily strike me as overstaying their welcomes, but many other things do. A good example are the 'dream' seasons of Archer which frankly could have been fun 1 off episodes of movie specials. As seasons, I was sick of them before the first was even halfway over.

For Netflix, my issue is how incredibly predictable the formula is. They'll start with a great opening 3-5 episodes that are great or interesting. Then the second half of the season hits and the entire story derails following some lesser subplot for far long than is needed. Which actually sounds like the 'this idea wasn't can't run this long and stay interesting' complaint now that I say it. So I guess that is the issue.

To use October Faction again, it had a great premise. Then it spent 3 whole episodes derailing its primary plot to remind us all that high school sucks, teenagers are donkey-caves, being gay involves a lot of prejudicial pricks and challenges, and a whole lot of absolutely nothing about the primary plot going on. Every single one of those sub-plots overstayed their welcome or remained the focus of the show for entirely too long. It happens too often in Netflix shows and it's definitely soured me. 13 Reasons why didn't need a second or a third season. Both seasons were basically nothing but this issue, but with multiple agonizingly depressing sub-plots that made me hate the entire show and wonder if it was trying to become infamous by encouraging someone to kill themselves after watching it or something. They went way out of their way to make that show soullessly and oppressively dark it boggled my mind. And when it wasn't, it was just wall to wall cringe.

There's a way to balance main plot and sub-plot and Netflix still hasn't figured it out. All they can do is run a main-plot and then throw a stop sign in front of it for multiple episodes while a side-plot resolves in far more time than was remotely necessary.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/04 14:54:39


Post by: Easy E


I am really getting tired of "the back story" episode that tells us the backstory of each and every side character.

No one cares.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/04 16:22:07


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


With Netflix, the beef for me is the noise to signal ratio, and a somewhat rubbish algorithm for recommending stuff.

For instance, I like my Sci-Fi, noir drama and Horror. Those are my staples, but other genres remain welcome to try my tastebuds.

But….Bollywood just isn’t my bag. Nothing against the genre or the industry, but given I’ve never watched any on Netflix, it sure did like to recommend it to me.

Plus I find some of their programming to be exploitative, such as any reality TV which relies on “characters” to drive the show. Sure that’s not solely Netflix’s preserve (I tried Hardcore Pawn on Prime the other day. Yeah, sure. Let’s just film and poke fun at people with obvious mental health issues. That’s fine!).

The stuff that is worth watching is so minimal compared to the mountain of absolute crap. This is why I ditched Netflix, especially after their monthly price kept on creeping up.

Prime has similar issues of course, but I find it a better channel for my own tastes.

Revisiting the Reality TV thing? That entire genre needs to get in a bin, get on fire and then get in the sea. Horrific exploitative nasty rubbish that it is. Victorians would go to freak shows and poke the “exhibits”. Us modern day folk gawk at them and encourage them to ever greater lows of shameless self exploitation, before abandoning them the second the next performing monkey proves even less mentally stable. Though I should stress I am not having a go at the people who turn up on those shows - it’s the companies exploiting them that my beef lies with.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/04 21:22:07


Post by: LordofHats


 Easy E wrote:
I am really getting tired of "the back story" episode that tells us the backstory of each and every side character.

No one cares.


One thing I really love about Worm (the web-novel) is how you can infer so much about its vast cast of side-characters largely without knowing every detail of their background. A great deal about them can readily and easily be inferred from their actions, behaviors, and the in-universe power mechanics. It's a technique I think most writers would kill to have mastery of and would really benefit us if more media made use of it. Indeed, we do not need to know the origin story of everything. Point of fact, the origin story for most things is probably not that interesting. A good example is in Way of the House Husband, where we're never really told how Tatsu and Miku ended up together and it's probably for the best because the humor comes from the premise and no origin story would ever adequately explain or enhance it.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/05 22:40:34


Post by: privateer4hire


Reality TV is well depicted in the Mitchell and Webb Gift Shop sketch (available on YouTube).



Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/05 23:24:39


Post by: flamingkillamajig


I dunno. Maybe media just isn't that good anymore or at least for my tastes.

This game kinda interests me. People said it's like The Expanse in computer game form.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=falling+frontier

I might also watch the new Dune movie. Also heard the latest James Bond movie wasn't too bad but you can only push James Bond so much. At least it isn't the millionth version of a horror movie franchise. Thank god i hate horror. I prefer psychological things more anyway. Action and comedy can be good. I'm really unsure what i'd want to watch next.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/06 03:12:45


Post by: Goose LeChance


Just watch Platoon over and over again. Modern cinema sucks.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/06 06:35:43


Post by: Blackie


 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I dunno. Maybe media just isn't that good anymore or at least for my tastes.

This game kinda interests me. People said it's like The Expanse in computer game form.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=falling+frontier

I might also watch the new Dune movie. Also heard the latest James Bond movie wasn't too bad but you can only push James Bond so much. At least it isn't the millionth version of a horror movie franchise. Thank god i hate horror. I prefer psychological things more anyway. Action and comedy can be good. I'm really unsure what i'd want to watch next.


The new Bond is very solid, and I didn't like any of the Craig's previous episodes. It's also the conclusion of the current Bond's era and I think it was somehow epic. Highly recommended.

Dune on the other hand was quite disappointing, but I am a fan of Villeneuve's (loved every single previous work of the canadian director) not a Dune's fan boy. I found the plot and the characters to be completely flat and uninspiring while the movie is well directed but it's based on the very same settings, soundtrack, visual effects, etc that we've already experienced in Villeneuve's previous works. Nothing new here that deserved to be watched, performances of the actors were poor or just standard. I'd suggest to watch it only if you're deep into the Dune world.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/06 14:38:33


Post by: Easy E


 LordofHats wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
I am really getting tired of "the back story" episode that tells us the backstory of each and every side character.

No one cares.


One thing I really love about Worm (the web-novel) is how you can infer so much about its vast cast of side-characters largely without knowing every detail of their background. A great deal about them can readily and easily be inferred from their actions, behaviors, and the in-universe power mechanics. It's a technique I think most writers would kill to have mastery of and would really benefit us if more media made use of it. Indeed, we do not need to know the origin story of everything. Point of fact, the origin story for most things is probably not that interesting. A good example is in Way of the House Husband, where we're never really told how Tatsu and Miku ended up together and it's probably for the best because the humor comes from the premise and no origin story would ever adequately explain or enhance it.


I find this technique more exciting as well, where you have to piece it together from the character themselves. However, many people may not ever pick up on those clues; so the writers/producers/studios feel the need to spell it all out, draw a picture of it, and put it in black and white.

I think this backstory problem comes from what fans actually claim they want!


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/06 21:23:19


Post by: Tawnis


 flamingkillamajig wrote:
So these days most entertainment seems to be re-makes or unimaginative cash grabs that wear a mask of a once beloved franchise and have none of the creativity. We get the same series over and over again. A lot of it re-hashes the same political talking points (and probably does it poorly) without something new or fresh up to the point smashing old tropes have made newer tropes. Anything halfway decent becomes milked dry and over-saturates the market like way back when space marine shooting games with grey metal corridors were in fashion, ww2 shooters were everywhere, isekai became too over-done and other such things.

I just can't get myself excited in entertainment anymore. Oh boy another franchise that's had it's last movie 15-20 years ago and already passed its 3rd movie so will likely be absolute crap. Oh man a movie that's had like 6, 9 or more movies after the point was already hammered home and fully delivered after the first or 2nd movie.

Even the comedy feels bland and unimaginative.

-------

I keep wanting to enjoy entertainment but everything is so lacking in substance or action or comedy or anything at all that i'm getting so frustrated i might make my own Tabletop Game and see where it goes. I want it to be really unique. I just don't know if i can but i'm so bored out of my skull i might have to. Most entertainment i consume just feels so hollow, fake and dry now and then it comes with a super inflated price tag and a multi-billion dollar company on the label.

-------

I suppose one of my biggest issues is i want entertainment to entertain me. I want characters to have a sensible purpose and goals which includes the bad guys and their goals and purpose. I want new content with new ideas that people generally don't think about these days. I want emotions backed up by understandable reasons and actions and consequences that make sense for the characters in a story. If we're gonna do something in the movie or game give us a sensible reason to do it where possible. Also remember character should have more than one interest or aspect to themselves. I can understand not fleshing out side characters much but it's so crappy when even the main characters feel unrelatable, unlikeable or have as much depth as paper.

Anyway i dunno. Maybe i'm asking too much these days and i've just gotten old and bored due to over-consumption of entertainment. Perhaps both things are an issue.

What do all of you guys think? Do you agree or disagree with things i've said? Let me know.


I was in the same boat as you for a while about 5 or so years ago. I felt like everything was a variation on either a procedural cop show, a medical drama, a reality show, a slightly different sitcom, a remake, or a combination of those. Don't get my wrong, I like the Marvel movies and some other things here and there, but it felt like every time something REALLY unqiue came out, it didn't last. (Exceptions, I got really into Sweet Tooth and Love, Death & Robots on Netflix recently, fingers crossed they stick around).

My solution, was to go beyond North America for entertainment, and for me, that was Anime. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of dumpster tier anime out there as with any medium, but I love it because it feels like (for better or worse) no one over there ever says "No, that idea is too crazy to work." Let me float a few concepts by you and you let me know if you've ever heard anything like these before:

Shadow's House: In a vast Victorian style mansion live the Shadows Family, people who have every inch of their body cover in black soot. They seem to have a similar structure to a Mafia family, but the specifics are unclear. Each young Shadow is assigned a living doll near their coming of age, a regular person with the same height/build/gender/ect as the shadow master to serve as their maid/butler and "face" becoming so in synch with their master that they show their master's expressions for them. Are they clones? it's unclear, but it's known that they are not exactly the same (one doll needs glasses while his master does not). Together they must past the "Debut" a mysterious right of passage designed to test their capabilities as Shadow and Doll and prove themselves worthy to their "Lord Grandfather."

Stein's;Gate: An eccentric amateur inventor (and self proclaimed mad scientist) creates a machine that can send text messages into the past, but only under certain unknown circumstances. As they begin testing the device to prove it however, he is contacted by John Titor (yes THAT John Titor if you are familiar with early internet) who claims to be a time traveler from the future claiming that CERN will eventually develop their own time machine and use it to create a tyrannical oligarchy by the year 2030. (Show is set in 2011). Things spiral out of control fast as small changes make the main character begin to loose sight of what reality he's even a part of, all while scrambling to try to prevent tragedy from befalling those closest to him.

Baccano!: Set in 1930's America, the story is a tightly wound knot of interconnecting stories about Mafia families coming into contact with a group of people who are unable to die (no other magic or superpowers or anything, they simply can't die). Train robberies, turf wards, swimming with the fishes. It's got it all. (Kinda like Highlander meets The Godfather.)

Cowboy Beebop: This is about as close as you'd get to something like Firefly if you were into that. I don't really need to say much more, Wild West in space, featuring down on their luck bounty hunters.

Re:Zero: A young man find himself suddenly in a Fantasy World with no explanation (though it's slowly hinted at over time.) He has no money, no understanding of the world or its customs, can't read or write (though fortunately he can at least speak to people). After nearly getting killed by some muggers, he's saved by a beautiful young woman who takes him under his wing and whom he instantly falls for. It's cut short however by a mysterious assailant who, while after the woman, kills them both. He then wakes up again earlier that day. With his only ability allowing him to revive in the past after dying (though he still feels all the pain), can he repay his perceived debt to a woman he knows virtually nothing about and save her life before going insane from being killed over and over and over again by fantasy monsters that will forever be way out of his league.

This was just a broad sampling, your milage based on your tastes will vary, but if you're looking for unique, it's certainly something anime has in spades.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/06 22:44:03


Post by: Strg Alt


trexmeyer wrote:
When did the last epic film come out that wasn't part of an established IP? Dunkirk? And before that? There have been barely any blockbuster-level live-action films in the last decade that weren't an adaptation or part of an otherwise established IP. Theatres are dominated by MCU, DCEU, and animated films. These movies are generally servicable, but repetitive and not for everyone.

It's the same issue with television.
Star Trek: Discovery and Picard aren't as good as previous Star Trek series.
MCU series are decent, but again, not for everyone.
I can't speak to any western animation, because outside of Invincible I generally really dislike the artstyles employed.
Oh, and Invincible and The Boys aren't MCU, but they are more of the super-hero genre and some people are sick to death of that.
The Mandalorian was good, but again, it's more of a pre-existing series.

Game of Thrones was decent/good for a few years, but it's over (and ended poorly).

The only critically-acclaimed, audience loved, live-action series that I can think of (that isn't tied into a larger IP) is The Expanse, and that's another adaptation. I guess Black Mirror would count.

A24 is producing good movies at least.


What about the Walking Dead? To my knowledge there has never been before a TV show about a zombie apocalypse. Was this also not good enough?


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/07 06:39:56


Post by: Blackie


The Walking Dead was brilliant for 2-3 seasons, then started to decrease in quality. Currently is just a barely ok-ish show, but I still watch it.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/07 13:52:34


Post by: LunarSol


It's VERY rare for anything to run for more than 3 seasons and remain satisfying. One of the big reasons I really lean towards anime is just that it rarely overstays its welcome unless its a weekly show.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/07 14:32:03


Post by: Tyran


Anime has the opposite problem, the anime market is so oversaturated in a race to the bottom line that most anime simply fail to make enough cash to be continued (and many are little more than oversized merchandizing for their respective manga or book)

There are the big household names that are the exception of course, but if you become interested in any of the smaller anime, you have to pray and maybe sell your soul for a continuation.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/07 15:39:56


Post by: LunarSol


Yes, but that also means that things rarely get written on the assumption of their being more. Seasons end on a satisfying note, even if they leave you wanting more they don't feel unfinished the same way. It also means there's a batch of completely new things fighting for attention each season and a lot more quirkly little ideas like Vivi or Decadence or whatever that tell their tale and bow out for something else.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/07 15:45:29


Post by: Tawnis


 LunarSol wrote:
It's VERY rare for anything to run for more than 3 seasons and remain satisfying. One of the big reasons I really lean towards anime is just that it rarely overstays its welcome unless its a weekly show.


They do sometimes have the problem of randomly just ending too, but a lot of that can be solved by doing a tiny bit of research beforehand to see how much source material it's based on.

Overall, totally agree, sometimes all you need to tell a compelling story is a season or two. My favorite example of this is Eden of the East. After their first season finished, they realized they didn't have enough story for a whole second season, so they released two movies (the functional length of half a season) to finish the story rather than stretch it out with nonsense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Tyran wrote:
Anime has the opposite problem, the anime market is so oversaturated in a race to the bottom line that most anime simply fail to make enough cash to be continued (and many are little more than oversized merchandizing for their respective manga or book)

There are the big household names that are the exception of course, but if you become interested in any of the smaller anime, you have to pray and maybe sell your soul for a continuation.


While that's still certainly an issue, it has been getting a bit better lately, we've been seeing continuations of series from years and years ago that people never thought would get picked back up, and they've been successful which is slowly changing the idea behind the one and done methodology. Just in the last year or so we got continuations for Full Metal Panic (which last aired in 2005!), The Devil is a Part Timer! (From back in 2013), Log Horizon (from 2015), D-Gray man got a continuation a while back, Miss Kobyashi's Dragon Maid got a second season even after the KyotoAni fire, Code Geass got a continuation after 13 years (to be fair it was "finished" and didn't need one, but still). I'm sure there are more that I haven't seen, that's just off the top of my head.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 LunarSol wrote:
Yes, but that also means that things rarely get written on the assumption of their being more. Seasons end on a satisfying note, even if they leave you wanting more they don't feel unfinished the same way. It also means there's a batch of completely new things fighting for attention each season and a lot more quirkly little ideas like Vivi or Decadence or whatever that tell their tale and bow out for something else.


Yes and no. Moreso yes recently and no in the past. There are a lot of older shows that had a "read the source material" ending, deliberatly leaving a great show unresolved so that you'd go and buy the LN's/Manga (see my shelf full of of Spice & Wolf light novels). However, it does seem that they have tended to shy away from that in more recent years and wrapping up their stories in satisfying ways. You're example of Decadence was a great one and I almost listed it above, but didn't think I could adequately sell the premise without spoiling the second episode twist.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/07 16:07:50


Post by: Tyran


 Tawnis wrote:

Miss Kobyashi's Dragon Maid got a second season even after the KyotoAni fire,

To be fair, the only reason Dragon Maid was ever in risk of discontinuation was because of said fire. Without it we would have gotten season 2 years ago.


Yes and no. Moreso yes recently and no in the past. There are a lot of older shows that had a "read the source material" ending, deliberatly leaving a great show unresolved so that you'd go and buy the LN's/Manga (see my shelf full of of Spice & Wolf light novels).


We still get that, Kumo Desu in this year's spring season being an example


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/07 16:14:03


Post by: Tawnis


 Tyran wrote:
 Tawnis wrote:

Miss Kobyashi's Dragon Maid got a second season even after the KyotoAni fire,

To be fair, the only reason Dragon Maid was ever in risk of discontinuation was because of said fire. Without it we would have gotten season 2 years ago.


Yes and no. Moreso yes recently and no in the past. There are a lot of older shows that had a "read the source material" ending, deliberatly leaving a great show unresolved so that you'd go and buy the LN's/Manga (see my shelf full of of Spice & Wolf light novels).


We still get that, Kumo Desu in this year's spring season being an example.


Perhaps. It was successful, but not like Violet Evergarden successful. It had a solid ending so, it was pretty up in the air. Even so, I guess that probably wasn't the best example.

Oh yeah, it's certainly not gone by any means, just saying that we see it less than we used to.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/07 16:30:56


Post by: LunarSol


 Tawnis wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 LunarSol wrote:
Yes, but that also means that things rarely get written on the assumption of their being more. Seasons end on a satisfying note, even if they leave you wanting more they don't feel unfinished the same way. It also means there's a batch of completely new things fighting for attention each season and a lot more quirkly little ideas like Vivi or Decadence or whatever that tell their tale and bow out for something else.


Yes and no. Moreso yes recently and no in the past. There are a lot of older shows that had a "read the source material" ending, deliberatly leaving a great show unresolved so that you'd go and buy the LN's/Manga (see my shelf full of of Spice & Wolf light novels). However, it does seem that they have tended to shy away from that in more recent years and wrapping up their stories in satisfying ways. You're example of Decadence was a great one and I almost listed it above, but didn't think I could adequately sell the premise without spoiling the second episode twist.


Depends on how far back you mean in the past. The era of Bebop, Eva, Trigun and the like rarely left room for franchising. The mid 00's and early 10's definitely had some awful franchising dreams and the whole moe push that happened alongside the rise of streaming is where I lost interest for a while. Luckily, modern anime comes labeled with clear warnings like "That Time I Tried to Make a Franchise Out of Stock Cliches".


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/07 17:46:07


Post by: Tawnis


 LunarSol wrote:
 Tawnis wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 LunarSol wrote:
Yes, but that also means that things rarely get written on the assumption of their being more. Seasons end on a satisfying note, even if they leave you wanting more they don't feel unfinished the same way. It also means there's a batch of completely new things fighting for attention each season and a lot more quirkly little ideas like Vivi or Decadence or whatever that tell their tale and bow out for something else.


Yes and no. Moreso yes recently and no in the past. There are a lot of older shows that had a "read the source material" ending, deliberatly leaving a great show unresolved so that you'd go and buy the LN's/Manga (see my shelf full of of Spice & Wolf light novels). However, it does seem that they have tended to shy away from that in more recent years and wrapping up their stories in satisfying ways. You're example of Decadence was a great one and I almost listed it above, but didn't think I could adequately sell the premise without spoiling the second episode twist.


Depends on how far back you mean in the past. The era of Bebop, Eva, Trigun and the like rarely left room for franchising. The mid 00's and early 10's definitely had some awful franchising dreams and the whole moe push that happened alongside the rise of streaming is where I lost interest for a while. Luckily, modern anime comes labeled with clear warnings like "That Time I Tried to Make a Franchise Out of Stock Cliches".


True, go far enough back and you get past all that.

Ha ha, yeah. To That Time I Got Reincarnated As A Slime's credit though, it is pretty much the best at what it does. Kinda like the RWBY of the anime world. Yeah it's filled with tropes and cliché's but that kinda gives it it's charm as long as you don't take it too seriously.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/07 19:32:43


Post by: LunarSol


I wasn't specifically calling out Slime. There's a full litany of shows where someone confused the the title with a plot summary. A few of them are actually solid, but most of the time its an easy way to flag something as skippable. At least until there's enough buzz to be worth catching up on.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/07 23:58:29


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


I think one of the things to keep in mind is the business aspect of entertainment.

Remember when the Beetles came to the US and were a smashing hit? Shortly after, literally EVERY record label wanted their version of "the beetles", and as a result, you get bands like The Monkees and others.

In the big 4 of thrash you had one get on a major record label, and then everyone else wanted their version of Metallica. Then when Metallica releases a power ballad, the other bands were "forced" to follow suit.

You can pretty much pick any genre of music, and you'll see the same patterns bear out over and over again.

On the TV side of things, one network took a bit of a gamble, and released NYPD Blue, and suddenly, everyone needed their own super awesome cop drama show! This process plays out repeatedly with nearly every genre of television. We get stuck with "American Idol" and then other networks bring out their lesser version of the same show.


I'd say to an extent, if you're consuming mainstream media, you ARE getting inundated with carbon copies, or semi-clones of things that have happened before, or "peer shows", and of course, the nerds that we are, and we all /want/ shows we can get into and pay attention to, and see neat little details on and generally "nerd out" to, become rather non existent because so many shows rely on tropes and conditions set by other shows around them that you do feel like you've seen it all before.

This same phenomena plays out in books and just about everywhere you look. I mean, how many YA books can be boiled down to "odd ball youth who feels like they dont fit in anywhere has X thing revealed/happen to them, and now they know they are The Special, and the world is beset by a problem that only The Special can solve" ?? Like, its pretty much just a Madlibs game at this point, there's so little creativity in mainstream entertainment these days.


I guess ultimately the issue comes down to what sort of mindset you have going in to various things. Like, are you turning on the TV at 7pm because that's just what you're supposed to do? Is this something that is habitually or ritually done on a certain life schedule? This is one of the nice/liberating things about streaming services where I am no longer a "slave" to the time schedule set by media bigwigs. I am a big sports guy, and the advent of streaming services means that, when the 24h of Le Mans green flag drops at 5 am my time, I don't need to be up that early. Same is true for grand tour cycling races, or the Rugby World Cup. I can view whatever sporting event "live" once I am up and ready to view them on my time.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/08 01:10:29


Post by: Gitzbitah


Keep in mind, this is far, far from a modern phenomenon. Shakespeare stole most of his plots from previous works- Romeo and Juliet is just a Pyramus and Thisbe reboot. The Roman gods are basically Greek gods- the Next Generation. Halloween is the sequel to the entirely too serious All Hallow's Eve, which was itself an attempt to make Samhuain less offensive to the Catholic Church. The groundbreaking horror novel Frankenstein.... is subtitled 'The Modern Prometheus' and is heavily based upon that ancient myth. The Chronicles of Narnia are a massive episode of Marvel's What if... Jesus was a Lion?

Sometimes you even get nonsensical spin offs, like Mari Lwyd, the Welsh tradition where a grinning horse's skull comes to your door and rap battles you- if you lose the horse skull drinks all of the beer in your house. Someone did a seriously dark and gritty reboot of Christmas Caroling for that one!

The old saying is that there's no story that hasn't been told. Watch and read what you enjoy!


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/16 16:00:45


Post by: AndrewGPaul


While I'm not one to talk down the horror of running out of beer at Christmas, that last one could have turned out much worse.


Am i Jaded? I can't seem to enjoy entertainment anymore. @ 2021/10/16 16:30:06


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Hell, I’d happily donate all the beer in my house to experience a rapping horse skull.

Knowing my luck, though, he would cringe-rap, “My name is Mari Lwyd and I’m here to say/ I’m a horse who loves beer in a major way/…”

Okay, I would actually enjoy that far too much.