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GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/21 08:42:56


Post by: Bago


So, the big rumour dump seems to suggest these codexes for december. This popped up in the GSC reddit. I could not find a source so take it with a big grain of salt

Spoiler:



For completions sake, the other rumour spoke of a box set Custodes vs GSC (a la Hexfire) with a new Character for Custodes and GSC (Saboteur, probably the rumour engine with the detonator).


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/21 08:53:38


Post by: Galas


I wouldn't be opposed to any of that as a custodes player. I have 0 shields in my army so is all positive for me. Tought the change from 4++ to 5++ will be felt. Hard.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/21 09:31:26


Post by: zamerion


I wanted the saboteur to be a new unit and not just a hero, more with the new KT.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/21 11:01:09


Post by: Patriarch


Love those GSC rumours from the Purestrain/Patriarch point of view. Would like my monsters to be worth more than just nostalgia.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/21 12:18:17


Post by: The Phazer


Honestly those sound like generally good changes for GC. The army is currently too hard to play effectively and needs simplifying a bit or it's just going to scare big chunks of the player base off.

Webbers sound too unpredictable though.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/21 12:34:57


Post by: Grimskul


I'm surprised to see that both axes AND spears are getting flat 3 damage, because that makes base Custodes pretty damn scary. I guess this might incentivize taking Wardens more if they price them effectively or give them something in addition to having the option to take Castellan Axes. I know the Allarus Custodians are almost guaranteed to take them every time. The 4+FNP is sorely needed given the amount of MW output that can be pumped out from all the different abilities out of the psychic phase, hopefully this applies to all phases for Custodes. The loss of that beefed up invuln. is going to sting though, and the one SS guy looks like he's still going to be mandatory.



GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/21 13:13:28


Post by: the_scotsman


honestly the thing that makes the rumor for GSC so credible to me is just how fantastically GW-ful it all sounds.

"oh, your army is bad? It cant be for any kind of structural reason, we'll just take all the numers you use for killing things, add 1, and then take all the points costs, and subtract 1. Did that fix it???"

"Oh, this unique xenos weapon, yeah ummm, it's...wouldn't you know it, it works out to be just identical to this standard imperial weapon, no differences at all (except for later on down the line when we buff the imperial weapon and we will not buff your equivalent hehehehehehehehehehe).

...now if you excuse me, I have to go think up the 33rd unique, distinct statline for a type of bolt weapon."

"Hey you know that key ability you guys had that a lot of stuff was dependent on? Yeaaaaaaaah, now it's over here, on this new model and ohbythewayhesonlyinaboxset. Go, fetch! Good boy!"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
GSC sucks now because:

1) their signature ability, Cult Ambush, is primarily useful in the context of board control, and GW reduced the area of the board that you have to control by approximately 30%

2) GW also condensed the game down from around a 4-turn experience to a 3 meaningful turn experience, and in those 3 turns you're supposed to be FURIOUSLY pursuing random secondary tasks in order to rack your points up before you're effectively tabled and dont have the models to pursue your objectives anymore. Surprise surprise, armies that invest significant chunks of their power budget into deep striking and therefore not being on the board for 1 of those 3 turns appear to be pretty darn gakky playing that paradigm.

3) being a 'glass cannon' when literally every army appears to instantly explodinate anything they look at is kind of meaningless, and it doesnt seem theyre going the Harlequins/Drukhari/Daemons route of 'hey remember how these guys were 'glass cannons' well now theyre just, as durable as everybody else but just differently durable and theyre defensively good against different weapons.'


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/21 19:14:37


Post by: Strat_N8


To somewhat echo the_scotsman, the GSC rumors do seem to match the general design philosophy of the 9th edition books like Orks and Grey Knights, namely removing "shenanigans" in favor of increased base power.

While I would miss the ambush markers, moving ambush modifiers from stratagems to characters is probably a net gain overall (begrudgingly). The current design is incredibly command point hungry, to the point that most of the CP pool is accounted for before the game begins. Freeing up some of the reliance on CP for basic functionality would give players a bit more freedom for stratagem use at least.

Weapon changes all look plausible, if perhaps uninspired. Seismic cannon is basically taking the current heavy profile with -1 strength on the short range profile, Metamorph claw more or less mirrors a crushing claw on a Tyrant Guard, Familiar change is just reverting to the 7th edition version. The Rending Claw change is interesting provided they don't compensate by lowering the base strength of models that come equipped with them (I'm assuming the change is mostly with the Tyranid book in mind).

I do like the supposed change for the Locus' aura ability. That effect works far better with their theme as a defensive bodyguard (and is more gameplay relevant) than the -1 ld effect it current has.

To be honest though, the main thing I'm looking forward to with a new book is (hopefully) decent points adjustments. They really shouldn't be paying MEQ prices for GEQ bodies.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/21 21:40:20


Post by: xttz


 Strat_N8 wrote:
To somewhat echo the_scotsman, the GSC rumors do seem to match the general design philosophy of the 9th edition books like Orks and Grey Knights, namely removing "shenanigans" in favor of increased base power.

While I would miss the ambush markers, moving ambush modifiers from stratagems to characters is probably a net gain overall (begrudgingly). The current design is incredibly command point hungry, to the point that most of the CP pool is accounted for before the game begins. Freeing up some of the reliance on CP for basic functionality would give players a bit more freedom for stratagem use at least.


Agreed. The 8E codex felt like you needed to string multiple complex special rules together just to reach the same performance as units from other factions. Having character choices from the armylist directly affect deployment options is a better way to handle faction abilities than an upfront CP tax.

Also this is speculation, but after the Orks and Sisters boxes I wonder if GW will bring back the Deathwatch Overkill infantry for the GSC Combat Patrol. An HQ character plus 3 sprues would be 500pts+ and gives 50+models at a much lower cost of entry than the separate model kits.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/21 22:23:05


Post by: Kanluwen


 xttz wrote:

Also this is speculation, but after the Orks and Sisters boxes I wonder if GW will bring back the Deathwatch Overkill infantry for the GSC Combat Patrol. An HQ character plus 3 sprues would be 500pts+ and gives 50+models at a much lower cost of entry than the separate model kits.

Am inclined to agree, but those numbers are gonna be heckin' funky.

It was 12 Hybrids with Autoguns, 2 each of Grenade Launchers and Mining Lasers.
12 Acolytes with Autopistols, CCWs, Rending Claws, and Blasting Charges.
2 Purestrain Genestealers.
2 Aberrants with Power Hammers and 2 Aberrants with Power Picks.

Then there was the other sprue with the Primus, Patriarch, Magus, and Familiars...

I guess maybe they could be swapping unit sizes or something going forward? Maybe moving the Icon Bearers out into their own unit ala the new Smasha Squigs for the Beastsnaggas?


I'm 99% sure that the removal of the counters though has to do with the necessity of actually getting them printed.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/21 22:30:43


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


 Kanluwen wrote:
 xttz wrote:

Also this is speculation, but after the Orks and Sisters boxes I wonder if GW will bring back the Deathwatch Overkill infantry for the GSC Combat Patrol. An HQ character plus 3 sprues would be 500pts+ and gives 50+models at a much lower cost of entry than the separate model kits.

Am inclined to agree, but those numbers are gonna be heckin' funky.

It was 12 Hybrids with Autoguns, 2 each of Grenade Launchers and Mining Lasers.
12 Acolytes with Autopistols, CCWs, Rending Claws, and Blasting Charges.
2 Purestrain Genestealers.
2 Aberrants with Power Hammers and 2 Aberrants with Power Picks.




Doesn't sound much worse than the SoB Combat Patrol tbh.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/22 05:22:31


Post by: xttz


 Kanluwen wrote:
 xttz wrote:

Also this is speculation, but after the Orks and Sisters boxes I wonder if GW will bring back the Deathwatch Overkill infantry for the GSC Combat Patrol. An HQ character plus 3 sprues would be 500pts+ and gives 50+models at a much lower cost of entry than the separate model kits.

Am inclined to agree, but those numbers are gonna be heckin' funky.

It was 12 Hybrids with Autoguns, 2 each of Grenade Launchers and Mining Lasers.
12 Acolytes with Autopistols, CCWs, Rending Claws, and Blasting Charges.
2 Purestrain Genestealers.
2 Aberrants with Power Hammers and 2 Aberrants with Power Picks.

Then there was the other sprue with the Primus, Patriarch, Magus, and Familiars..


The Patriarch + characters is already available separately as it's own sprue, so I think it's more likely to see the cheaper Iconward or female Magus in a Combat Patrol.

Each DWOK infantry sprue was:
8 Neophyte (inc 1 grenade launcher and mining laser)
6 Acolytes
2 Aberrants
1 Purestrain

Putting three of those sprues in the box would be closer to currently usable unit sizes. I could see Purestrains becoming a 3+ model unit for GSC to show how rare they are. Hopefully GW do that rather than throw in some old stealer models to make up the numbers.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/22 05:36:14


Post by: Marshal Loss


Sounds plausible & mostly very good. I'd be sad to see the ambush/blip markers go though, always thought that was a cool mechanic.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/22 05:45:43


Post by: drbored


Interesting. I think Genestealer Cults will remain a very tricky army to play. Being low save and low toughness, without any -1 to hit them like Eldar have is their main issue. They just fall apart to a stiff breeze, so I'm sure it'll all come down to the points in the new Codex.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/22 06:48:53


Post by: Sunny Side Up


Armywide bodyguard? Lol

Can't wait for the Tau Codex.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/22 12:29:51


Post by: The_Real_Chris


 xttz wrote:
Each DWOK infantry sprue was:
8 Neophyte (inc 1 grenade launcher and mining laser)
6 Acolytes
2 Aberrants
1 Purestrain

Putting three of those sprues in the box would be closer to currently usable unit sizes. I could see Purestrains becoming a 3+ model unit for GSC to show how rare they are. Hopefully GW do that rather than throw in some old stealer models to make up the numbers.


Or have mixed squads and have fluff of purestrains hiding in larger squads as they are shielded by the mass of blood relatives.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/22 12:34:59


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


The_Real_Chris wrote:
 xttz wrote:
Each DWOK infantry sprue was:
8 Neophyte (inc 1 grenade launcher and mining laser)
6 Acolytes
2 Aberrants
1 Purestrain

Putting three of those sprues in the box would be closer to currently usable unit sizes. I could see Purestrains becoming a 3+ model unit for GSC to show how rare they are. Hopefully GW do that rather than throw in some old stealer models to make up the numbers.


Or have mixed squads and have fluff of purestrains hiding in larger squads as they are shielded by the mass of blood relatives.



I think they'll just reduce the minimum squad size, as they did with SoB.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/22 12:36:02


Post by: Kanluwen


 xttz wrote:

The Patriarch + characters is already available separately as it's own sprue, so I think it's more likely to see the cheaper Iconward or female Magus in a Combat Patrol.

I don't think it would be an Iconward at this juncture. They've oversaturated that model to hell and back again.

It possibly could be the new Saboteur though.

Each DWOK infantry sprue was:
8 Neophyte (inc 1 grenade launcher and mining laser)
6 Acolytes
2 Aberrants
1 Purestrain

Putting three of those sprues in the box would be closer to currently usable unit sizes. I could see Purestrains becoming a 3+ model unit for GSC to show how rare they are. Hopefully GW do that rather than throw in some old stealer models to make up the numbers.

Right, but the point I was making is just how weird the overall numbers are. That's why I listed the entire DWOK contents.

I guess one way that it could go is including a Goliath or possibly two that they have you build as Rockgrinders. There's two "crew" figures that go in the back that would give you the remaining 4 models to hit a 20 model unit.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/22 12:48:32


Post by: Valkyrie


5++ Custodes is going to be a pretty big nerf, although I suspect perhaps they may just make Custodes 4++ by default, possibly to simplify the listbuilding when SoS are involved.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/22 13:23:32


Post by: Tiberias


 Valkyrie wrote:
5++ Custodes is going to be a pretty big nerf, although I suspect perhaps they may just make Custodes 4++ by default, possibly to simplify the listbuilding when SoS are involved.


This. I'm betting they are going to make Aegis of the Emperor a flat 4++.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/22 16:23:03


Post by: the_scotsman


Sunny Side Up wrote:
Armywide bodyguard? Lol

Can't wait for the Tau Codex.


Presumably only for characters though. The reason its cancer in tau is that you can use it on fething riptides and stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
drbored wrote:
Interesting. I think Genestealer Cults will remain a very tricky army to play. Being low save and low toughness, without any -1 to hit them like Eldar have is their main issue. They just fall apart to a stiff breeze, so I'm sure it'll all come down to the points in the new Codex.


Honestly, this is a bit my frustration with them.

The bikers, aberrants, trucks, and rockgrinders would seem to indicate some way to play beyond simply "glass cannon table your opponent or instantly get tabled yourself" but again and again GW puts 99% of their design efforts into making GSC's whole identity just 'ambush some thing, charge and table enemy."

its so dull. I really wish 40k had sigmar's attitude towards resurrection mechanics to make hordes feel and play like actual hordes.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/22 16:40:07


Post by: tneva82


Tiberias wrote:
 Valkyrie wrote:
5++ Custodes is going to be a pretty big nerf, although I suspect perhaps they may just make Custodes 4++ by default, possibly to simplify the listbuilding when SoS are involved.


This. I'm betting they are going to make Aegis of the Emperor a flat 4++.


What about stormshields then?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/22 17:07:05


Post by: Voss


tneva82 wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
 Valkyrie wrote:
5++ Custodes is going to be a pretty big nerf, although I suspect perhaps they may just make Custodes 4++ by default, possibly to simplify the listbuilding when SoS are involved.


This. I'm betting they are going to make Aegis of the Emperor a flat 4++.


What about stormshields then?


Easily solved, depending on how they want to do it. 'Stormshields' become 'Custodes Lightning Shields' that simply don't buff invulnerables.
Alternately they go with 5++ and assume people will take Stormshields.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/22 17:10:33


Post by: CragHack


I hope the new HQ won't be as ridiculous as Trajann and not in Allarus.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/22 18:05:32


Post by: Dysartes


Given Trajann is "Head Custodian" IIRC, I'm fairly sure any new HQ won't be on his level.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/22 18:28:27


Post by: Kanluwen


 CragHack wrote:
I hope the new HQ won't be as ridiculous as Trajann and not in Allarus.


I still think that this is a tease of the new HQ:
Spoiler:


Would be a good opportunity to bring in The Eyes of the Emperor stuff, as an ally-able non-Knight unit.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/22 18:29:53


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Quite possibly.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/22 19:12:34


Post by: Arbitrator


Bland enough to be true.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/22 20:15:36


Post by: JNAProductions


tneva82 wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
 Valkyrie wrote:
5++ Custodes is going to be a pretty big nerf, although I suspect perhaps they may just make Custodes 4++ by default, possibly to simplify the listbuilding when SoS are involved.


This. I'm betting they are going to make Aegis of the Emperor a flat 4++.


What about stormshields then?
Storm Shields don’t affect invulnerable saves already.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/22 20:30:07


Post by: nordsturmking


I think Storm Shields should give a minus to hit or wound just like the Galatus. Makes most sense fluff wise and game wise since GW wants to get rid of 3++.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/23 19:21:05


Post by: cuda1179


At least one of the following is going to happen:

1. Custodes get a 5++ standard and no special rule to buff it.

2. Storm shields will become something different, like the Ultramarines Vexatrix Guard shields, and still give a 3++.

If Custodes can be 4++ without storm shields, then storm shields are virtually useless.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/23 19:50:27


Post by: Red Corsair


A 1+ save standing in the open is pretty damn good IMO.



In regard to GSC... Finally! I have been banging on the drum to change cult ambush to DS or infiltrate since the silly blips came out. The blips look cool and are a fantastic idea for a game the scale of KillTeam but are god awful on an entire hoard army.

Here's to hoping they fixed the Goliaths, I own 6 trucks and 3 rock grinders and I am hoping they are a bit more durable. Part of me feels like GW, being as predictable as they are, will just give them -1 damage since that appears to be 9ths golden goose rule but we will see. Also hoping the Magus and Pat can finally cast 2 spells base.

In regard to rending claws, I am guessing acolytes become base S3 otherwise S5 acolytes seems a tad much. That will of course really affect how the mining waepons work as well, but considering you could always take 2 per 5 dudes, I imagine those could easily just become MUCH cheaper.

The real proof will come in the points.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/09/23 21:43:15


Post by: MajorWesJanson


 cuda1179 wrote:
At least one of the following is going to happen:

1. Custodes get a 5++ standard and no special rule to buff it.

2. Storm shields will become something different, like the Ultramarines Vexatrix Guard shields, and still give a 3++.

If Custodes can be 4++ without storm shields, then storm shields are virtually useless.


I could see 1. being the option, with Terminators getting a 4+ Inv. Losing a point of Inv for some models would be a tradeoff for gaining a wound and better MW negation.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 13:54:32


Post by: Bago


Not much of a surprise but here we are.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/10/30/warhammer-day-2021-take-the-fight-to-terra-itself-with-the-next-battle-box-and-codexes-for-warhammer-40000/

Unfortunately got a brood coven in a sweet Bundle I picked up second hand. But will probably still pick up the box and go splitsies with a custodes friend. I love the Saboteur sculpt. Really excited about the codex


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 14:28:17


Post by: xttz


Today's stream mentioned that a lot of the current GSC pre-employment stratagems were being moved to rules you pay points/PL for instead during list building. Stratagems instead would be mostly "reactive" during the game.

Partially supports (but doesn't prove) the leaks in the OP


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 15:05:36


Post by: Voss


Meh box. The standard characters and a box of neophytes? Versus Two.min squads of whatevers?

Yes, standard new character fomo, but there really isn't much here.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 15:06:18


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


Is this the most one-sided box GW ever produced?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 15:11:34


Post by: Gert


Why even put the SoS in the box when they're not going to be in the Codex. I mean obviously its because the SoS don't sell but why not just make the army Talons like in 30k?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 15:12:54


Post by: Lord Damocles


But Sisters are going to be in the new codex.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 15:12:55


Post by: xttz


 Gert wrote:
Why even put the SoS in the box when they're not going to be in the Codex. I mean obviously its because the SoS don't sell but why not just make the army Talons like in 30k?


They are in the new codex


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 15:15:11


Post by: Voss


They... Are in the codex? Explicitly

....

As for one-sided, I've seen worse. It comes down to psyker and patriarch vs whatever custodes are left after shooting. For the one time anyone tries to fight this box as a real game.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 15:15:23


Post by: Ordana


If nothing changes to allow GSC to actually survive standing on objectives then the army is still bad.

If they don't get to ignore the "no DS turn 1" rule like Drop Pods can they will still be bad.


9th edition you need to be able to hold objectives and you can't do nothing on turn 1 or you have to be so broken that you basically wipe the board on T2 which would obviously be a horrible design.
The whole army identify of GSC doesn't work in 9th edition.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 16:07:20


Post by: Dysartes


 Gert wrote:
Why even put the SoS in the box when they're not going to be in the Codex. I mean obviously its because the SoS don't sell but why not just make the army Talons like in 30k?

Reading is tough, huh?

The Shadow Throne box also contains Sisters of Silence. That’s because the new Codex: Adeptus Custodes combines the Talons of the Emperor into one book, adding the psyker-killing power of the Silent Sisters to your Shield Host.


I do kinda wish they'd called the book "Talons of the Emperor" now they've done this, though.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 16:58:07


Post by: Da Boss


If there's a decent discount I might pick this up. Be fun to paint one squad of Custodes and SoS and I like all the GSC models.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 17:25:13


Post by: GoatboyBeta


 Dysartes wrote:

I do kinda wish they'd called the book "Talons of the Emperor" now they've done this, though.


That would have made sense to me as well. Although I wonder if they wanted to avoid any confusion from what would essentially have been a renaming of the faction? I could definitely see someone insisting there Adaptus Custodes Codex was still valid because the replacement had a different name


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 17:27:00


Post by: MonkeyBallistic


I think this is the first 40K battle box where I’ve actually liked both of the factions. I might get this.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 17:34:16


Post by: flaherty


GoatboyBeta wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:

I do kinda wish they'd called the book "Talons of the Emperor" now they've done this, though.


That would have made sense to me as well. Although I wonder if they wanted to avoid any confusion from what would essentially have been a renaming of the faction? I could definitely see someone insisting there Adaptus Custodes Codex was still valid because the replacement had a different name


I assume it's going to be at the $170 price point and it looks like it's going to clock in at ~$270 value. That's on the low side of recent value offered by such boxes, but still healthy, especially if you manage to snag one at a retailer who offers a discount. Here is the data:

Hexfire: $329

https://spikeybits.com/2021/08/save-40k-hexfire-battlebox-pricing-value.html

Piety & Pain: $311

https://spikeybits.com/2021/03/piety-pain-warhammer-40k-box-value-release-date.html

Prophecy of the Wolf: $258

https://spikeybits.com/2020/03/save-hobby-40k-prophecy-of-the-wolf-value.html


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 17:51:35


Post by: stonehorse


Wait, so the Genestealer Cult (and by extension the Hive Mind/Tyranids) are on Terra...

This has massive fluff ramifications, also shows that the Tyranids/Hive Mind have achieved in a relatively small space of time what Chaos Space Marines haven't achieved since the Horus Heresy.

Would be hilarious if this results in the Genestealer Cult blowing up the Golden Throne!


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 17:55:40


Post by: Lord Damocles


Terra is already riddled with Chaos cults, so it's hardly surprising that genestealers got there too.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 19:11:50


Post by: Ordana


indeed, a cult being on Terra is not remotely surprising.
Terra is not some bastion of perfect virtue.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 20:10:16


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


 Ordana wrote:
indeed, a cult being on Terra is not remotely surprising.
Terra is not some bastion of perfect virtue.


Inquisitor Draco warned this would happen back in 1994!


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 20:11:56


Post by: Plant


 Ordana wrote:
indeed, a cult being on Terra is not remotely surprising.
Terra is not some bastion of perfect virtue.

Heretic.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 20:28:21


Post by: Lord Damocles


In fact, the map in the 8th edition Codex: Genestealer Cults already shows Terra as an infected planet.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 21:07:26


Post by: GoatboyBeta


IIRC the current Custodes dex has a small bit in the timeline about purging a Stealer cult on Terra. I don't think this is a global day of ascension deal. Most likely the lower levels of a Hive or two.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/30 21:09:49


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


GoatboyBeta wrote:
IIRC the current Custodes dex has a small bit in the timeline about purging a Stealer cult on Terra. I don't think this is a global day of ascension deal. Most likely the lower levels of a Hive or two.


Yes, around 50 of them went in and purged billions of genestealers.
Puts into perspective how painfully one-sided this box is.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/31 05:43:15


Post by: alphaecho


 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
GoatboyBeta wrote:
IIRC the current Custodes dex has a small bit in the timeline about purging a Stealer cult on Terra. I don't think this is a global day of ascension deal. Most likely the lower levels of a Hive or two.


Yes, around 50 of them went in and purged billions of genestealers.
Puts into perspective how painfully one-sided this box is.



One sided if you throw everything on the table at the same time and shout "Fight".

How do the narrative missions affect the forces if you play the scenarios as written in the booklet?

What are the Victory conditions for those scenarios? Can the plucky underdog Cultists win simply by having a model alive at the end of a set number of turns?

I'll never know because I'm not in the market for this box, same as I didn't pick up the Thousand Sons/ Space Wolves one.




GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/31 08:37:11


Post by: xerxeskingofking


ok, hear me out on this:

the custodies contents of this box are:

this new champion
3 termies
5 sisters.


unless i am mistaken, these boxes are partly intended to act as starters for these factions, so they contain a battle forged, match play legal detachment, yes? May not be a full 500 points, but the Hexfire one certainly managed that.

so, form that, we can make the following ductions:

The Blade Champion is a HQ choice. hes the only character in the force, he kinda has to be.

EITHER the termies OR the sister are moving to Troops. at 500points, you MUST use a Patrol detachment, which has a mandatory troops unit in it. Ergo, one of those two units (currently both elite choices) must be a troops choice.

thats intresting news..


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/31 08:51:10


Post by: MonkeyBallistic


If you ask me (and I know nobody did), they completely screwed up Sisters of Silence back when they were released. They had wonderful art depicting a range of SOS units which distinctive appearances, but went with trying to do a complete force in a single kit. It’s one of the worst examples of the models not fitting the already established lore.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/31 08:55:31


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


xerxeskingofking wrote:
ok, hear me out on this:

the custodies contents of this box are:

this new champion
3 termies
5 sisters.


unless i am mistaken, these boxes are partly intended to act as starters for these factions, so they contain a battle forged, match play legal detachment, yes? May not be a full 500 points, but the Hexfire one certainly managed that.

so, form that, we can make the following ductions:

The Blade Champion is a HQ choice. hes the only character in the force, he kinda has to be.

EITHER the termies OR the sister are moving to Troops. at 500points, you MUST use a Patrol detachment, which has a mandatory troops unit in it. Ergo, one of those two units (currently both elite choices) must be a troops choice.

thats intresting news..


My money is on SOS's being moved to Troops.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/31 08:56:42


Post by: endlesswaltz123


SoS being troops would be nice, mainly so you don't see the same standard multiple of 3-man shield squads used as the minimum troop choice for custodes.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/31 09:10:34


Post by: lord_blackfang


Yawn. I remember battle boxes being cooler.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/31 09:30:07


Post by: Arbitrator


 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
If you ask me (and I know nobody did), they completely screwed up Sisters of Silence back when they were released. They had wonderful art depicting a range of SOS units which distinctive appearances, but went with trying to do a complete force in a single kit. It’s one of the worst examples of the models not fitting the already established lore.

They were a release for Horus Heresy that some execs no doubt wanted to push onto 40k for the sales, which is why you end up with the sort of weird lore about how they essentially ceased to exist after the Scouring but came back in time for Guillman to show up a millennia later.

They're a full army in 30k, FW just haven't gotten around to actually making the models.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/31 09:53:31


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


I want an Emperor on the Golden Throne objective mini!


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/31 10:16:55


Post by: Apple fox


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I want an Emperor on the Golden Throne objective mini!


Can we afford that, plus the 3 book box and army it bundled with ; )

I think this isn’t a bad box as a whole, and if price here isn’t crazy I will consider picking it up.

Don’t like the running custodes guy, he looks bad though.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/31 10:35:12


Post by: ImAGeek


I really like the GSC codex cover art. There’s been some great covers so far this edition.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/31 11:30:03


Post by: tneva82


 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
GoatboyBeta wrote:
IIRC the current Custodes dex has a small bit in the timeline about purging a Stealer cult on Terra. I don't think this is a global day of ascension deal. Most likely the lower levels of a Hive or two.


Yes, around 50 of them went in and purged billions of genestealers.
Puts into perspective how painfully one-sided this box is.


Try putting million genestealer vs 50 custodians and custodians are dead.

Fluff ls fluff. Irrelevant for how one sided box is.

Of course you know this and are just trolling as usual.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/31 11:31:13


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


tneva82 wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
GoatboyBeta wrote:
IIRC the current Custodes dex has a small bit in the timeline about purging a Stealer cult on Terra. I don't think this is a global day of ascension deal. Most likely the lower levels of a Hive or two.


Yes, around 50 of them went in and purged billions of genestealers.
Puts into perspective how painfully one-sided this box is.


Try putting million genestealer vs 50 custodians and custodians are dead.

Fluff ls fluff. Irrelevant for how one sided box is.


Regardless of fluff, it still is one of the best armies in the game against one of the worst armies in the game, y'know?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/31 11:42:36


Post by: alphaecho


 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
GoatboyBeta wrote:
IIRC the current Custodes dex has a small bit in the timeline about purging a Stealer cult on Terra. I don't think this is a global day of ascension deal. Most likely the lower levels of a Hive or two.


Yes, around 50 of them went in and purged billions of genestealers.
Puts into perspective how painfully one-sided this box is.


Try putting million genestealer vs 50 custodians and custodians are dead.

Fluff ls fluff. Irrelevant for how one sided box is.


Regardless of fluff, it still is one of the best armies in the game against one of the worst armies in the game, y'know?


As I said earlier, wait for the scenarios to see if the box is one sided.

As a theoretical example, as long as one Cultist survives, the Cult will continue to spread. Chalk up a victory for the Genestealer Cults.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/31 11:44:13


Post by: EightFoldPath


 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
xerxeskingofking wrote:
ok, hear me out on this:

the custodies contents of this box are:

this new champion
3 termies
5 sisters.


unless i am mistaken, these boxes are partly intended to act as starters for these factions, so they contain a battle forged, match play legal detachment, yes? May not be a full 500 points, but the Hexfire one certainly managed that.

so, form that, we can make the following ductions:

The Blade Champion is a HQ choice. hes the only character in the force, he kinda has to be.

EITHER the termies OR the sister are moving to Troops. at 500points, you MUST use a Patrol detachment, which has a mandatory troops unit in it. Ergo, one of those two units (currently both elite choices) must be a troops choice.

thats intresting news..


My money is on SOS's being moved to Troops.

Assuming this is happening. I think the ideal would be SOS being given the poxwalker/tzaangor/cultist treatment and requiring one Custodian infantry unit per SOS squad. Just to prevent HQ+SOS+dreads/tanks lists.

I am intrigued by the how powerful the GSC codex will turn out to be, I can see this being the first on release lemon of a codex, but I can also equally see this being Drukhari 2.0. The least likely outcome I can see is it being mid tier with decent match ups and no brokenly undercosted datasheets.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/31 12:46:36


Post by: Arbitrator


I think GSC will either be one extreme or the other, dominating the meta for a while or just falling flat on it's face and making everyone question what the point even was.

After their 8th 'dex they went from A to D tier so quickly you'd be excused for getting whiplash. Eliminators seemingly being designed specifically to kill any kind of GSC 'meta' was so comical, nevermind the continued punishment Aberrants were made to endure for the sin of being good for two weeks.

If the leaks are true, the Blandification that's coming will probably mitigate a lot of the "wtf is happening???" problems people had against them when the 8th 'dex dropped.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/31 13:09:14


Post by: Irbis


xerxeskingofking wrote:
The Blade Champion is a HQ choice. hes the only character in the force, he kinda has to be.

Technically termie box builds Captain in terminator armour (and the Aquila waving dude) so that's 2 more right there.

EightFoldPath wrote:
Assuming this is happening. I think the ideal would be SOS being given the poxwalker/tzaangor/cultist treatment and requiring one Custodian infantry unit per SOS squad. Just to prevent HQ+SOS+dreads/tanks lists.

That would be nice and logical, yes.

On my side, I hope they hit the FW with a nerf hammer. Not only I am sick of seeing pile of cherrypicked OP recasts completely replacing plastic models that are supposed to be actual core of the army, most of FW range is just pointlessly duplicating plastics, only with vastly uglier models (that are being made even worse by gak, fluff breaking FW paint jobs).

Or just do logical thing and remove duplication, the FW models are now just closest GW equivalent, much like 'relic terminators' in SM range. Do we really need 2 kinds of lance bikes and termies? The only exception I'd make is rifle custodes, make a plastic upgrade sprue (or new kit) building these because it's the only thing in FW range that actually offers something new and isn't horribly broken.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/31 14:10:45


Post by: Galas


I would kill for a plastic Galatus/Achillus dreadnought plastic double kit.


The vehicles TBH I don't care about. I play custodes to play infantry+dreadnoughts just like I play marines for.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/31 15:01:18


Post by: Dysartes


 Irbis wrote:
On my side, I hope they hit the FW with a nerf hammer. Not only I am sick of seeing pile of cherrypicked OP recasts completely replacing plastic models that are supposed to be actual core of the army, most of FW range is just pointlessly duplicating plastics, only with vastly uglier models (that are being made even worse by gak, fluff breaking FW paint jobs).

Or just do logical thing and remove duplication, the FW models are now just closest GW equivalent, much like 'relic terminators' in SM range. Do we really need 2 kinds of lance bikes and termies? The only exception I'd make is rifle custodes, make a plastic upgrade sprue (or new kit) building these because it's the only thing in FW range that actually offers something new and isn't horribly broken.

Here's hoping they tune the FW Custodes/SoS stuff up to be even better, and add further options.

Seriously, Irbis, you need to speak to a professional regarding these FW issues you have.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/31 19:51:04


Post by: xerxeskingofking


 Irbis wrote:
xerxeskingofking wrote:
The Blade Champion is a HQ choice. hes the only character in the force, he kinda has to be.

Technically termie box builds Captain in terminator armour (and the Aquila waving dude) so that's 2 more right there.

EightFoldPath wrote:
Assuming this is happening. I think the ideal would be SOS being given the poxwalker/tzaangor/cultist treatment and requiring one Custodian infantry unit per SOS squad. Just to prevent HQ+SOS+dreads/tanks lists.

That would be nice and logical, yes.

On my side, I hope they hit the FW with a nerf hammer. Not only I am sick of seeing pile of cherrypicked OP recasts completely replacing plastic models that are supposed to be actual core of the army, most of FW range is just pointlessly duplicating plastics, only with vastly uglier models (that are being made even worse by gak, fluff breaking FW paint jobs).

Or just do logical thing and remove duplication, the FW models are now just closest GW equivalent, much like 'relic terminators' in SM range. Do we really need 2 kinds of lance bikes and termies? The only exception I'd make is rifle custodes, make a plastic upgrade sprue (or new kit) building these because it's the only thing in FW range that actually offers something new and isn't horribly broken.


the FW stuff has already got its 9th edition rules, in the FW compenidum. so far GW has only really made small changes to that book, normally adding in new faction wide rules (ie changing the FW Skitarii to Doctrina Imperitives), or adding new keywords in and brining shared weapon profiles into line (ie the flamer range boost). its highly likely that the custodes elements of that book will get similar treatment with just updated keywords.

and your right, you COULD build a shield cap form the termies, but that would leave you with a unit below min size so its unlikely they INTEND you to do that. i feel its more likely the new blade champ is the HQ and the allarus are the elite beatstick of the force, with the sisters filling out the troops.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/31 20:25:48


Post by: bullyboy


I really cannot get into GSC as a faction in 40k, probably my least favourite overall (just personal taste, no logical reason for it), but Damn do they get some really characterful models. It makes me laugh at how bad some marine faces are yet this new GSC character has 2 outstanding head sculpts.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/10/31 22:45:22


Post by: Arbitrator


 bullyboy wrote:
I really cannot get into GSC as a faction in 40k, probably my least favourite overall (just personal taste, no logical reason for it), but Damn do they get some really characterful models. It makes me laugh at how bad some marine faces are yet this new GSC character has 2 outstanding head sculpts.

Apparently the one 'Eavy Metal staffer who can paint faces is only allowed to work on GSC or something.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 02:28:36


Post by: posermcbogus


Aww man, while I'm not dead keen on the custard boys, I could deffo find a use for them. I really hope that maybe the low mini count might make this boxset cheaper, even if tfw Japan prices. Otherwise I love everything here, the gsc troops are a lovely kit, and I'd be happy to have another, the character is ace, and I keep on meaning to have an excuse to pick up some SOS.

Also lmao at Irbis being mad at FW paint jobs, like dude, people can paint minis whatever colour they want, and the Citadel crew should absolutely show a broad range of colour schemes, I think it's a good thing. Chill out my man, they aren't even your little resin space men.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 02:50:15


Post by: Sasori


I think with the Blade Champion being revealed to use blade stances and nothing like Litanies, that kills that 4chan rumor?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 06:33:01


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Speaking of the Emperor on the Golden Throne objective marker, there's no word on what terrain might be in the box is there?

Is that red building on the right new?



GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 06:44:51


Post by: alphaecho




Sector Fronteris buildings?.


For The Emperor, get hold of the Rogue Trader Lord Macragge on porta potty and paint him gold.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 07:08:54


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Is that red building on the right new?
Ain't nuthin' new in that pic. Here are my two.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 08:20:05


Post by: Togusa


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Speaking of the Emperor on the Golden Throne objective marker, there's no word on what terrain might be in the box is there?

Is that red building on the right new?



I doubt the GSC/Chadstodes box will have terrain. Unless they said it did and I missed it?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 08:42:12


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


alphaecho wrote:


Sector Fronteris buildings?.



Ah must have been another 'blink and you'll miss it' release. Already OOP.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 08:57:48


Post by: beast_gts


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
alphaecho wrote:
Sector Fronteris buildings?.

Ah must have been another 'blink and you'll miss it' release. Already OOP.
Pretty much - both times it was released was as a Killzone box. Some FLGSs still have stock (Wayland, for example).


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 15:12:30


Post by: Kanluwen


Article!

Shadow Throne will be available to pre-order next month, but while you wait for its glorious arrival, prepare your Terran uprising with a Start Collecting! Genestealer Cults set, or get ready to ruthlessly purge them from the Throneworld with a Custodian Guard Squad or two.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 15:42:46


Post by: The Phazer


The saboteur seems quite useful, depending on points.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 15:45:12


Post by: BrianDavion


A single new unit for custodes is dissappointing, we could have used some more stuff


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 15:52:07


Post by: Grimskul


I feel like that while the Blade Champion is versatile and has decent defensive stats (basically transhuman against hits rather than wound rolls), it's going to largely depend on his overall cost since his damage output is decent but not at a level where I think you'd take him since he's not mobile enough to be a consistent character or monster/vehicle hunter due being on foot and having to deal with all the -1D abilities flying about nowadays (outside of spending CP to deep strike him).

Also, really weird how they try making Ld11 for him to be a selling point somehow.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 15:53:49


Post by: Kanluwen


Personal hot-take:
I'm slightly irked that the Saboteur gets to use markers in the way that Incursors used to get to use their Haywire Mines. I bought an extra box of Incursors/Infiltrators specifically so my Incursor units could have a Haywire Mine equipped model--and a model to replace it when they used them.

Now it's just a counter-charge reaction for some stupid reason on the Incursors, while the Saboteur gets the area denial aspect that I had really liked.

Also, is it just me or is it weird that it is called a "Reductus Saboteur" when the AdMech have the "Ordo Reductor"?
BrianDavion wrote:
A single new unit for custodes is dissappointing, we could have used some more stuff

You also get the entire Sisters of Silence setup rolled in. And it sounds like there might be some unit size changes coming for both.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 18:10:37


Post by: Ordana


Can't help but giggle at seeing they felt the need to give the GSC character 3 separate defensive layers in an attempt to have it survive more then a second on the table top.



GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 18:29:34


Post by: lord_blackfang


If the GSC girl's weapon represents mines she planted all over the board ahead of the battle, why does it have a range


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 18:33:14


Post by: bullyboy


 lord_blackfang wrote:
If the GSC girl's weapon represents mines she planted all over the board ahead of the battle, why does it have a range


Range of device that detonated the bomb?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 18:38:25


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


 lord_blackfang wrote:
If the GSC girl's weapon represents mines she planted all over the board ahead of the battle, why does it have a range


I choose to headcanon as her having an entire backpack full of anti-tank mines, and she's just throwing them like frisbees.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 18:39:36


Post by: tneva82


 lord_blackfang wrote:
If the GSC girl's weapon represents mines she planted all over the board ahead of the battle, why does it have a range


The explosives triggered via bluetooth?-)


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 18:43:21


Post by: Niiai


One of the stratagems is called "A plan geerations in the making". That is a long time to plant bombs.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 18:50:43


Post by: Red Corsair


The mine is kind of awful verse infantry. It;s 50/50 per model in range of 3 lol. So they can just toe in with a unit and coin flip to take one mortal.

At least you do have the option to not detonate it based on the wording, but I doubt you would spend a turn planting one over shooting.

Also, why are her IED's worse verse infantry and bikes then verse land raiders? It is also even funnier based on the fact she is facing no monsters or vehicles in the box set lol.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 18:57:06


Post by: Niiai


I guess it depends on aa few things. Does it work like a biovore mine? A carpet of biovores could put down a minefield and block movement as you could not go within 1" unless you charged.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 19:04:58


Post by: Red Corsair


 Niiai wrote:
I guess it depends on aa few things. Does it work like a biovore mine? A carpet of biovores could put down a minefield and block movement as you could not go within 1" unless you charged.


It says its a marker, which means it isn't a model so they can walk all over the thing if they want unless theres an interaction i am unaware of.

The wording also explicitly states it can detonate at the end of the movement phase but doesn't specify whose, so presumably either, but only in the enemies charge phase which also means they can toe in a charge so less models are threatened, because once they pile in closer the window to explode will be closed. Since it's an action to place the mine, and you can't shoot and perform actions this ability is seeming kind of bad.

Edit: that said, Id be willing to bet theres some 1-2 CP strat that makes the unit busted per usual GW rules design.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 19:06:22


Post by: Niiai


Perhaps it is a reasonably riced stratagem to pre-game place some.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 19:08:11


Post by: Red Corsair


 Niiai wrote:
Perhaps it is a reasonably riced stratagem to pre-game place some.


I was editing something similar to this as you posted, your probably right. Although I hate stratagems as the game moves forward more and more as they seem wildly all over the place and hard to balance with the actual units themselves appropriately.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 19:13:55


Post by: Irbis


I like how explosion that can easily rip apart tanks and monsters is just D1 (95% of things that are D2 thanks to stupid stat inflation has no business being more deadly than this is). I guess she forgot to ask colt dude next datasheet over how to make absurdly OP weapons better than most relic guns in 40K from literal junk?

Also, we get to add another idiotic, immersion breaking moment to orkstodes - T buff made them twice as durable against these explosions, because unarmored, soft bodies are somehow really resilient to main tactic used in every codex and BL book to dispose of ork masses quickly and easily


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 19:14:00


Post by: Dudeface


 Red Corsair wrote:
The mine is kind of awful verse infantry. It;s 50/50 per model in range of 3 lol. So they can just toe in with a unit and coin flip to take one mortal.

At least you do have the option to not detonate it based on the wording, but I doubt you would spend a turn planting one over shooting.

Also, why are her IED's worse verse infantry and bikes then verse land raiders? It is also even funnier based on the fact she is facing no monsters or vehicles in the box set lol.


Controlling your opponents movements and dictating awkward activations is part of the potential value of the mine, I agree just shooting is likely better though.

But the IED might be a shaped charge intended to take out bigger targets or something, it's just a useful game control mechanic.

But heaven forbid the characters rules are designed with thought for use outside of the release box.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 19:26:07


Post by: Red Corsair


Dudeface wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
The mine is kind of awful verse infantry. It;s 50/50 per model in range of 3 lol. So they can just toe in with a unit and coin flip to take one mortal.

At least you do have the option to not detonate it based on the wording, but I doubt you would spend a turn planting one over shooting.

Also, why are her IED's worse verse infantry and bikes then verse land raiders? It is also even funnier based on the fact she is facing no monsters or vehicles in the box set lol.


Controlling your opponents movements and dictating awkward activations is part of the potential value of the mine, I agree just shooting is likely better though.

But the IED might be a shaped charge intended to take out bigger targets or something, it's just a useful game control mechanic.

But heaven forbid the characters rules are designed with thought for use outside of the release box.


It doesn't really deter enemy movement though. It still requires a 4+ to even hit it's intended target (vehicles or monsters) and once you use it you lose it lol. Verse infantry it's laughably poor since as I already wrote, it rolls hits based on models within 3" and only in specific phases. So even verse chaf like guardsmen, they can move move move in the shooting phase and sit right on top of it and you can't detonate it lol. Any strat for additional movement (fire and fade etc) or psychic power just embarrasses it. Thats poor rules design in general IMO.

Heaven forbid they write rules that actually function in general.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 19:38:22


Post by: Kanluwen


It doesn't say that you cannot replant the mine that I can see?

Just that once you use it, it's gone.

I'm going to be extremely interested to see how GSC handle the number of characters they have. If AdMech is anything to go by, there might be certain characters able to be taken with no slot requirement.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 19:51:59


Post by: Arbitrator


She'll probably go in HS what with her obvious anti-vehicle focus and GSC currently having one HS option that isn't on-loan from the Guard.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 20:30:50


Post by: Tyel


Barring the revelation she's a combat monster for some reason, if she's about 50 points she's probably good/auto-include. If 80+ you'd probably never bother.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 22:30:24


Post by: alextroy


 Red Corsair wrote:
Spoiler:
Dudeface wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
The mine is kind of awful verse infantry. It;s 50/50 per model in range of 3 lol. So they can just toe in with a unit and coin flip to take one mortal.

At least you do have the option to not detonate it based on the wording, but I doubt you would spend a turn planting one over shooting.

Also, why are her IED's worse verse infantry and bikes then verse land raiders? It is also even funnier based on the fact she is facing no monsters or vehicles in the box set lol.


Controlling your opponents movements and dictating awkward activations is part of the potential value of the mine, I agree just shooting is likely better though.

But the IED might be a shaped charge intended to take out bigger targets or something, it's just a useful game control mechanic.

But heaven forbid the characters rules are designed with thought for use outside of the release box.


It doesn't really deter enemy movement though. It still requires a 4+ to even hit it's intended target (vehicles or monsters) and once you use it you lose it lol. Verse infantry it's laughably poor since as I already wrote, it rolls hits based on models within 3" and only in specific phases. So even verse chaf like guardsmen, they can move move move in the shooting phase and sit right on top of it and you can't detonate it lol. Any strat for additional movement (fire and fade etc) or psychic power just embarrasses it. Thats poor rules design in general IMO.

Heaven forbid they write rules that actually function in general.
The die roll gets a +2 versus Biker, Monster and Vehicle models, so it hits on a 2+ against the primary target. Taking 4 MW on a 2+ will make we think twice about going over there.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 22:55:01


Post by: H.B.M.C.


So... umm... do Custodes really need a super-fighty HTH character?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 23:29:16


Post by: Voss


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... umm... do Custodes really need a super-fighty HTH character?


You know that's not how this works. Sculptor made a sword guy in layers and layers of.. leather?*... and the codex writer had to come up with something for sword guy to do.


*I'm honestly not convinced there isn't just a standard primaris marine in power armor buried under all that... stuff.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 23:33:15


Post by: Hellebore


The rules for Sword Guy are like Exarch powers, only good...

It would be nice to see Exarchs and Phoenix lords with even half that ability...


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/01 23:34:55


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Voss wrote:
You know that's not how this works. Sculptor made a sword guy in layers and layers of.. leather?*... and the codex writer had to come up with something for sword guy to do.
Yep. You're right. Forgot what I was talking about for a moment there.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/02 00:04:45


Post by: cuda1179


 Sasori wrote:
I think with the Blade Champion being revealed to use blade stances and nothing like Litanies, that kills that 4chan rumor?


IDK, It would be a bit humorous if all these special rule tacked on top of other rules too, making this guy a total beatstick blender.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/02 02:02:09


Post by: Red Corsair


 alextroy wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
Spoiler:
Dudeface wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
The mine is kind of awful verse infantry. It;s 50/50 per model in range of 3 lol. So they can just toe in with a unit and coin flip to take one mortal.

At least you do have the option to not detonate it based on the wording, but I doubt you would spend a turn planting one over shooting.

Also, why are her IED's worse verse infantry and bikes then verse land raiders? It is also even funnier based on the fact she is facing no monsters or vehicles in the box set lol.


Controlling your opponents movements and dictating awkward activations is part of the potential value of the mine, I agree just shooting is likely better though.

But the IED might be a shaped charge intended to take out bigger targets or something, it's just a useful game control mechanic.

But heaven forbid the characters rules are designed with thought for use outside of the release box.


It doesn't really deter enemy movement though. It still requires a 4+ to even hit it's intended target (vehicles or monsters) and once you use it you lose it lol. Verse infantry it's laughably poor since as I already wrote, it rolls hits based on models within 3" and only in specific phases. So even verse chaf like guardsmen, they can move move move in the shooting phase and sit right on top of it and you can't detonate it lol. Any strat for additional movement (fire and fade etc) or psychic power just embarrasses it. Thats poor rules design in general IMO.

Heaven forbid they write rules that actually function in general.
The die roll gets a +2 versus Biker, Monster and Vehicle models, so it hits on a 2+ against the primary target. Taking 4 MW on a 2+ will make we think twice about going over there.


Sure sure, 2+ to do 1 whole mortal to a bike unit at the expense of shooting to plant that bomb..... wow amazing. And in regard to vehicles and monsters it's cute, but then again why is the other player in a rush to drive up to her again?

Theres no fog of war here, your opponent has perfect information on the mine, and they wrote the rules in such a way that it's laughably easy to counter. Thats kind of my main problem with it, I wish they had just given her mine rules like aircraft bombs, you know the rules where you roll X number of dice equal to models in the unit up to a maximum of some number. Because the way it is designed now, they can just work around it way too easily and unlike aircraft that fly over and drop it where they want she has to hope they run onto it.

I still bet theres some strat to make it work, but as I said earlier I prefer rules that don't require stategems to save them.





GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/02 02:36:24


Post by: Arbitrator


It's hard to get excited about possibly doing 4 MW to a vehicle when having Psykers doing that on anything is pretty normal these days

Atm people aren't taking Kelermorphs at 80. If she's in the 50pt range I could see her being used as a filler when there's some points left over, but anything 70+ and she's gathering dust in most lists I expect.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/02 07:39:31


Post by: Niiai


Somebody pointed out you roll a dice per model on the mine. Not per unit. So with unit coherence you might get 5 rolls for instance. Not good, but certainly better. It can also blow up your own unit. But they will die anyway if you get charged.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/02 07:52:56


Post by: GiToRaZor


 Red Corsair wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
The mine is kind of awful verse infantry. It;s 50/50 per model in range of 3 lol. So they can just toe in with a unit and coin flip to take one mortal.

At least you do have the option to not detonate it based on the wording, but I doubt you would spend a turn planting one over shooting.

Also, why are her IED's worse verse infantry and bikes then verse land raiders? It is also even funnier based on the fact she is facing no monsters or vehicles in the box set lol.


Controlling your opponents movements and dictating awkward activations is part of the potential value of the mine, I agree just shooting is likely better though.

But the IED might be a shaped charge intended to take out bigger targets or something, it's just a useful game control mechanic.

But heaven forbid the characters rules are designed with thought for use outside of the release box.


It doesn't really deter enemy movement though. It still requires a 4+ to even hit it's intended target (vehicles or monsters) and once you use it you lose it lol. Verse infantry it's laughably poor since as I already wrote, it rolls hits based on models within 3" and only in specific phases. So even verse chaf like guardsmen, they can move move move in the shooting phase and sit right on top of it and you can't detonate it lol. Any strat for additional movement (fire and fade etc) or psychic power just embarrasses it. Thats poor rules design in general IMO.

Heaven forbid they write rules that actually function in general.


While the damage output can be debated, your point about the movement is plain wrong. It doesn't say that your enemy needs to have charged, just that it's the end of the Charge Phase, and that one ist after Shooting (move move move) and Psychic. So if your enemy moves up on the mine in any of those, you can still blow it up in the Charge Phase. Don't forget the H in IMHO.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/02 08:52:09


Post by: Arbitrator


 Niiai wrote:
Somebody pointed out you roll a dice per model on the mine. Not per unit. So with unit coherence you might get 5 rolls for instance. Not good, but certainly better. It can also blow up your own unit. But they will die anyway if you get charged.

What're the odds of getting more than one vehicle in 3" at the same time though? Good when it happens, but it seems like one of those things that'd be so rare you'd not be factoring it in when deciding whether or not to take her.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/02 09:24:04


Post by: tneva82


 Arbitrator wrote:
 Niiai wrote:
Somebody pointed out you roll a dice per model on the mine. Not per unit. So with unit coherence you might get 5 rolls for instance. Not good, but certainly better. It can also blow up your own unit. But they will die anyway if you get charged.

What're the odds of getting more than one vehicle in 3" at the same time though? Good when it happens, but it seems like one of those things that'd be so rare you'd not be factoring it in when deciding whether or not to take her.


Seeing he's talking about unit coherency...well either it's unit of vehicles(where it does apply due to having to stay close to others due to...well COHERENCY) or he's talking about units of infantry.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/02 09:30:36


Post by: beast_gts


Voss wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... umm... do Custodes really need a super-fighty HTH character?


You know that's not how this works. Sculptor made a sword guy in layers and layers of.. leather?*... and the codex writer had to come up with something for sword guy to do.


*I'm honestly not convinced there isn't just a standard primaris marine in power armor buried under all that... stuff.


Didn't they say on the stream that it's the same armour as the jetbike guys?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/02 09:48:45


Post by: tneva82


If you can't see multiple features shared between other custodes rather than marines maybe book time with nearest ophthalmologist

Just because guy is big, armoured and wields a sword doesn't make him space marines.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/02 09:53:35


Post by: xttz


tneva82 wrote:
Just because guy is big, armoured and wields a sword doesn't make him space marines.


Very excited for the Primaris Avatar of Khaine next year!


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/02 12:56:21


Post by: kurhanik


So I like both models and all, but I find it very strange that they have decided a good and balanced box set involves someone with tons of defensive buffs specifically against ranged combat and dealing big damage to Vehicles and Monsters, and then setting them up against melee blenders with none of her ideal targets.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/02 14:12:54


Post by: Geifer


beast_gts wrote:
Voss wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... umm... do Custodes really need a super-fighty HTH character?


You know that's not how this works. Sculptor made a sword guy in layers and layers of.. leather?*... and the codex writer had to come up with something for sword guy to do.


*I'm honestly not convinced there isn't just a standard primaris marine in power armor buried under all that... stuff.


Didn't they say on the stream that it's the same armour as the jetbike guys?


They did make that observation, yes.

 kurhanik wrote:
So I like both models and all, but I find it very strange that they have decided a good and balanced box set involves someone with tons of defensive buffs specifically against ranged combat and dealing big damage to Vehicles and Monsters, and then setting them up against melee blenders with none of her ideal targets.


I don't think GW even considered the words good and balanced when they made this box. The battle box on the Genestealer side looks like it's composed of models that are either useful in large numbers (Neophytes) or haven't featured in a similar box yet or for some time, so there's no issue with duplication for a large number of customers. Plus the new model for which the box is made in the first place.

I could find a use for all the models in the box, but neither side looks like a representative core of their respective army in my opinion. They're just models GW figured might appeal enough to players with existing collections to spend the big bucks trying to get their hands on the new character.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/02 14:14:14


Post by: Kanluwen


Or that it's a "good" spread for someone looking to jump into either faction.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/02 14:32:30


Post by: Geifer


Sure, but someone without a collection is not as easily turned off by the inclusion of certain units because taste aside, they'll find their first unit of whatever is in the box useful. An player with an established collection may not want a third, fourth, fifth squad of Lolrus Terminators.

It doesn't cost GW anything to let that inform battle box composition, and as we've seen with that Eldar versus Dark Eldar box, being mindful of the contents instead of throwing in any old junk helps sales (I know, price also figured into it, but not exclusively).


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/02 17:09:06


Post by: MajorWesJanson


 kurhanik wrote:
So I like both models and all, but I find it very strange that they have decided a good and balanced box set involves someone with tons of defensive buffs specifically against ranged combat and dealing big damage to Vehicles and Monsters, and then setting them up against melee blenders with none of her ideal targets.


On the Custodes side, all their good vehicles are made by forgeworld, with only the old rhino and land raider, plus the etb contemptor in plastic.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/02 19:50:51


Post by: tneva82


 kurhanik wrote:
So I like both models and all, but I find it very strange that they have decided a good and balanced box set involves someone with tons of defensive buffs specifically against ranged combat and dealing big damage to Vehicles and Monsters, and then setting them up against melee blenders with none of her ideal targets.


Balanced? These boxes are never intended for balance. They are discount boxes. Only balance you can hope is money value(makes splitting easier)


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/02 22:58:18


Post by: Red Corsair


 GiToRaZor wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
The mine is kind of awful verse infantry. It;s 50/50 per model in range of 3 lol. So they can just toe in with a unit and coin flip to take one mortal.

At least you do have the option to not detonate it based on the wording, but I doubt you would spend a turn planting one over shooting.

Also, why are her IED's worse verse infantry and bikes then verse land raiders? It is also even funnier based on the fact she is facing no monsters or vehicles in the box set lol.


Controlling your opponents movements and dictating awkward activations is part of the potential value of the mine, I agree just shooting is likely better though.

But the IED might be a shaped charge intended to take out bigger targets or something, it's just a useful game control mechanic.

But heaven forbid the characters rules are designed with thought for use outside of the release box.


It doesn't really deter enemy movement though. It still requires a 4+ to even hit it's intended target (vehicles or monsters) and once you use it you lose it lol. Verse infantry it's laughably poor since as I already wrote, it rolls hits based on models within 3" and only in specific phases. So even verse chaf like guardsmen, they can move move move in the shooting phase and sit right on top of it and you can't detonate it lol. Any strat for additional movement (fire and fade etc) or psychic power just embarrasses it. Thats poor rules design in general IMO.

Heaven forbid they write rules that actually function in general.


While the damage output can be debated, your point about the movement is plain wrong. It doesn't say that your enemy needs to have charged, just that it's the end of the Charge Phase, and that one ist after Shooting (move move move) and Psychic. So if your enemy moves up on the mine in any of those, you can still blow it up in the Charge Phase. Don't forget the H in IMHO.


Couple things,

1st, thats a great catch and I hadn't thought of that interaction. So thanks for pointing it out!

2nd, the fact that we need a fething debate about when to detonate a weapon, and of all things to situationally detonate it in an otherwise unused assault phase still speaks volumes on how over-baked the rule is for minimal effect. Again it should have simply allowed you to roll a die for each model in the unit up to a max of X or simply done flat mortals.

3rd, you really need to work on your own humility if your getting your panties in a bunch over acronym shorthand unless your trying to just be funny, in which case improve on that instead.

I have still yet to hear a compelling argument on why someone would forgo the units shooting for the mine.

Edit:

"At the end of the movement phase or opponents charge phase if any enemy models are within 3"..."

Further evidence the rule is written like crap. The enemy can actually drive a tank over the mine so long as they drive 3.1" past it and you cannot detonate it...


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/03 01:22:14


Post by: Voss


tneva82 wrote:
If you can't see multiple features shared between other custodes rather than marines maybe book time with nearest ophthalmologist

Just because guy is big, armoured and wields a sword doesn't make him space marines.


He's got the top-knot and the lion shoulders, sure. But underneath the leather, the armor looks smaller than other custodes, more power armor sized, and all the armor details are buried under the piles of fabric and leather, including his shiny gold booties.
Swap the pauldrons and shave some iconography and you've got a better Emperor's Champion model.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/03 17:30:52


Post by: Galas


Voss wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
If you can't see multiple features shared between other custodes rather than marines maybe book time with nearest ophthalmologist

Just because guy is big, armoured and wields a sword doesn't make him space marines.


He's got the top-knot and the lion shoulders, sure. But underneath the leather, the armor looks smaller than other custodes, more power armor sized, and all the armor details are buried under the piles of fabric and leather, including his shiny gold booties.
Swap the pauldrons and shave some iconography and you've got a better Emperor's Champion model.


He has the armor and helmet of a Vertus Praetor, the Custodes Bikers. They wear ligther armour, and have had it since their release years ago.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/03 17:34:31


Post by: JWBS


Yeah they used to be super light on armour



GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/16 13:19:16


Post by: xttz


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/16/is-a-genestealer-cult-on-terra-the-death-knell-of-the-imperium/

A heads-up on codex release dates

While we previously expected the Adeptus Custodes and Genestealer Cults codexes to arrive alongside Shadow Throne, it’s fair to say that the process of shipping things around the world is still not without its challenges.

Despite the Herculean efforts of the teams that work to get new Warhammer into stores and homes every week, these codexes are now expected to land early next year. In the meantime, though, we’re going to reveal a bunch of cool stuff from both books while we wait, so stay tuned to Warhammer Community for regular updates.




GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/16 13:39:46


Post by: warboss


JWBS wrote:
Yeah they used to be super light on armour

Spoiler:



The community has us covered on 3d printable models for the OG versions complete with pole(arm) dancing pose.

https://www.thingiverse.com/search?q=fabstodes&type=things&sort=relevant


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/16 13:58:48


Post by: bullyboy


Oof, feel sorry for GSC and Custodes players planning to go to LVO in January as now they are touch and go of making the cutoff for new rules. They would need to be released on Jan 8th to make it.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/16 14:18:49


Post by: Asmodai


 bullyboy wrote:
Oof, feel sorry for GSC and Custodes players planning to go to LVO in January as now they are touch and go of making the cutoff for new rules. They would need to be released on Jan 8th to make it.


Doesn't seem likely since they're not even able to commit to January in the article - just a vaguer "early 2022".


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/16 15:15:29


Post by: Ordana


WTF is going on with GW. I understand global trade is kinda scuffed but surely its been going on for long enough now that they should have a better handle on things.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/16 15:28:57


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


 Ordana wrote:
WTF is going on with GW. I understand global trade is kinda scuffed but surely its been going on for long enough now that they should have a better handle on things.


...you seriously think this wasn't the plan?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/16 15:29:37


Post by: Inquisitor Gideon


It's not just scuffed, it's royally screwed for everybody. It's the first year i've ever known where places are already sold out of Christmas gear and can't even be sure they'll get anymore in the next 6 weeks.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/16 15:41:54


Post by: MonkeyBallistic


 Ordana wrote:
WTF is going on with GW. I understand global trade is kinda scuffed but surely its been going on for long enough now that they should have a better handle on things.


WTF is going on with you, that you think a worldwide problem that is crippling global trade, should be an easy fix for GW?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/16 15:44:32


Post by: Theophony


 Ordana wrote:
WTF is going on with GW. I understand global trade is kinda scuffed but surely its been going on for long enough now that they should have a better handle on things.


GW may be the biggest tabletop miniature game company around, but they are still a tiny fish in the global economy. When massive companies (In the US anyway), such as Walmart and Home Depot cannot get supplies from their vendors even with their well established supply chains, GW is going to have an even worse time. Not only do they not print their own books and pamphlets, their suppliers are out of the country and dealing with their own supply chain issues. GW is doing a better job at it than most businesses, but they are still at the mercy of other factors. Plus GW might get the product and ship it across the globe, but if they cannot get the product to one section of the world, they will delay the release of the entire product across the globe to ensure everyone gets it at roughly the same time.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/16 15:46:34


Post by: Arbitrator


 Ordana wrote:
WTF is going on with GW. I understand global trade is kinda scuffed but surely its been going on for long enough now that they should have a better handle on things.

They doubled down on dead trees for selling rulesets in time for a paper and shipping shortage.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/16 15:48:28


Post by: xttz


Last week there were over 100 container ships anchored at the coast near LA, unable to unload cargo due because current demand far outstrips port capacity.

But I'm sure that has nothing to do with it, and this is some kind of evil plan to actively make things worse for customers


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/16 15:51:45


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


 xttz wrote:

But I'm sure that has nothing to do with it, and this is some kind of evil plan to actively make things worse for customers


To be fair.
Has GW ever missed an opportunity to make things worse for customers?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/16 15:56:47


Post by: bullyboy


Apparently the most important item for Black Friday sales this year is a wetsuit. Keeps you warmish while trying to swim out to those tankers to get the early bird deals!


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/16 16:00:29


Post by: the_scotsman


 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
WTF is going on with GW. I understand global trade is kinda scuffed but surely its been going on for long enough now that they should have a better handle on things.


WTF is going on with you, that you think a worldwide problem that is crippling global trade, should be an easy fix for GW?


I mean, it would be not an issue at all if they'd figured out the thing that a lot of book manufacturers had figured out ages ago...ebooks....

...but then GW couldn't charge 60 fething human dollars for their 100 page mostly copy-pasted books.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
either way, 2 years into an edition, 5 not-marine armies have gotten anything at all with only 2 getting any significant model releases...CSMs in a completely unusable like "dont even try" unplayable state....

...this is all making me mighty nostalgic for older editions, I dont know about you guys!


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/16 16:12:11


Post by: Theophony


I just wonder why they cannot get the FAQ out now even before the books. I mean they were getting the FAQs out shortly after a book release, but now with the books being delayed a couple months, they should have the FAQs as day one downloads. It's not like they don't have their electronic master copies to be reading over .


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/16 16:12:17


Post by: Ordana


 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
WTF is going on with GW. I understand global trade is kinda scuffed but surely its been going on for long enough now that they should have a better handle on things.


WTF is going on with you, that you think a worldwide problem that is crippling global trade, should be an easy fix for GW?
Fix it? Obviously not. Hence my comment about knowing its screwed up. But I would expect them to have a better idea of when they can get goods delivered or further shorten the window for announcing things if they don't.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/16 16:22:35


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Maybe they could make the rules available in some sort of app or something?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/16 16:23:00


Post by: Theophony


 Ordana wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
WTF is going on with GW. I understand global trade is kinda scuffed but surely its been going on for long enough now that they should have a better handle on things.


WTF is going on with you, that you think a worldwide problem that is crippling global trade, should be an easy fix for GW?
Fix it? Obviously not. Hence my comment about knowing its screwed up. But I would expect them to have a better idea of when they can get goods delivered or further shorten the window for announcing things if they don't.


Maybe you are new here....

Look at any of the GW threads and people are clamouring for releases and dates. GW is trying to get product out, they are working with all the steps needed to get product out. Shipping centers are giving dates out for when products "Should Arrive", but even those are optomistic. To give you some insight, a couple from my church run a freight hauling business. We all read in the news how there is a container shortage which is leading to part of the problem of getting supplies. One of their trucks took an empty container to the port to drop off when they went to pick up a new container full of product for a company. They were turned away at the port because there was no place to stack the empty container, which means they had to turn around without any new container because they could not unload the empty container. They were not warned about this when the scheduled their pick up over the phone. So the container they were to pick up was now blocking other unloads. EVERY step of the shipping process is buggered up right now. President Biden just took a trip to one of the ports in the last week to address the situation. Sounds great, but with a Presidential presence, certain tasks are halted by security measures, So yet another delay . It really is not as simple as everyone thinks it should be. There has been remarkable improvements in the last couple weeks, but most of that was due to letting the ports start to work 24 hours a day.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/16 16:27:30


Post by: the_scotsman


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Maybe they could make the rules available in some sort of app or something?


Yeah, its not like we have a sort of live demonstration of a half-dozen randos in russia being paid voluntarily thru patreon running absolute circles around the output of a billion dollar corporation charging 5$/month plus 60$/book ultra-ultra-premium prices.

That would really just illustrate the comedy of the people defending profit motive-sempai in the hopes that he'll notice them.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/17 04:06:16


Post by: Red Corsair


Are the books inside the limited box set?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/17 04:15:42


Post by: Voss


 Red Corsair wrote:
Are the books inside the limited box set?

Nope.

Separately to the Shadow Throne box, codexes for both the Adeptus Custodes and the Genestealer Cults will also be released later this year, bringing new features to each faction.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/10/30/warhammer-day-2021-take-the-fight-to-terra-itself-with-the-next-battle-box-and-codexes-for-warhammer-40000/


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/17 13:46:34


Post by: deano2099


It's not just shipping issues - manufacturing in China has taken a huge hit because of electricity rationing - lots of factories only being allowed to operate 4 days a week, putting them miles behind schedule. Not that there's enough containers for the stuff to go on anyway... then you have Christmas where a lot of even the core stuff (food buying pattern, gifts, etc) changes...

GW going "well we're going to put out the box and then the codexes separately" *is* them getting a handle on the situation and doing something regardless, rather than just sitting on the announcement and pushing the whole thing to the new year.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/17 15:29:52


Post by: tneva82


 Ordana wrote:
WTF is going on with GW. I understand global trade is kinda scuffed but surely its been going on for long enough now that they should have a better handle on things.


Brexit is making mess of things in uk compounding issue far beyond elsewhere


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/17 19:08:34


Post by: Platuan4th


 Ordana wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
WTF is going on with GW. I understand global trade is kinda scuffed but surely its been going on for long enough now that they should have a better handle on things.


WTF is going on with you, that you think a worldwide problem that is crippling global trade, should be an easy fix for GW?
Fix it? Obviously not. Hence my comment about knowing its screwed up. But I would expect them to have a better idea of when they can get goods delivered or further shorten the window for announcing things if they don't.


I can't even get a timeline from corporate Starbucks on when my store is getting something as simple as STRAWS again and those are domestically produced. I can forgive GW not knowing when they're getting their foreign produced product.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/17 21:04:48


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


If only there was SOME WAY to distribute rules without needing imported books!

If only!

But something like that must certainly remain in the realm of science fiction.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/17 21:07:52


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
If only there was SOME WAY to distribute rules without needing imported books!

If only!

But something like that must certainly remain in the realm of science fiction.


Yeah, think of all the possible Applications for such a technology!
They could answer so many Frequently Asked Questions!
It would truly be a big Plus for Warhammer.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/17 21:18:55


Post by: Theophony


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
If only there was SOME WAY to distribute rules without needing imported books!

If only!

But something like that must certainly remain in the realm of science fiction.


I guess you didn't sign up for Telegram+


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/18 08:05:02


Post by: tneva82


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
If only there was SOME WAY to distribute rules without needing imported books!

If only!

But something like that must certainly remain in the realm of science fiction.


Maybe gw prefers everybody to get the book rather than only partion at first?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/18 08:25:42


Post by: Olthannon


In a way I'm glad all that outsourcing of cheap unsustainable labour is biting corporations in the arse. Even now it means they can wash their hands of responsibility and blame it on the supply chain.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/18 12:33:32


Post by: The_Real_Chris


To be fair GW sees the fluff content of a book as a key recruiting and retention factor. Wahpedia doesn't do that. They might be right or wrong, but its certainly how they see their business continuing.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/18 13:50:26


Post by: xttz


The_Real_Chris wrote:
To be fair GW sees the fluff content of a book as a key recruiting and retention factor.


To be fair that's still true, although not to the same extent it used to be. While many older players have read most of that fluff before, newer ones still use that material for inspiration.

There will always be a market for printed books. Even when we had official ebooks available GW still sold plenty of printed copies to people with a preference for paper over digital.

There's also the issue of 3rd-party retailers losing a lot of income if the only place to buy certain new products is direct from GW. On a launch weekend a popular new codex alone can be worth thousands in revenue to the larger resellers, and that's not counting additional sales added to ship with the same order.

Claiming that a switch to all digital rules is some kind of simple fix to global supply issues is very disingenuous.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/25 13:07:39


Post by: Bago


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/25/troops-are-better-than-ever-how-the-next-three-codexes-improve-your-units/?utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40%2C000&utm_content=codexupdates25112021

Previews for troops update.

Summoning via cult icon sounds interesting, but your unit have to survive for that. But I like it from a flavor point of view. Also T4 on Acolytes is nice.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/25 13:09:04


Post by: Kanluwen



This calls upon reinforcements lurking in the shadows to restore them to fighting strength – in the case of Acolyte Hybrids, that’s D3 destroyed models from the unit.


For those not wanting to click the link.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/29 14:39:54


Post by: xttz


New codex rules preview up

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/29/adeptus-custodes-crush-foes-with-devastating-battle-stances-in-the-new-codex/

After both sides have deployed, but before you have determined who will have the first turn, you must select a Convoluted Special Rule from the list opposite to explain to your opponent during the game. Note this down secretly on your roster, otherwise you won't remember which Convoluted Special Rule you picked.

In each of your Command phases, you must select half of the Convoluted Special Rule to explain to your opponent during the turn. This has some kind of benefit to your army.

Convoluted Special Rules cannot be used more than once per game in case we accidently made them too strong. They must also be used in a specific order for some reason. However if you are willing to spend command points there will inevitably be a strategem that lets you ignore these restrictions.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/29 14:41:12


Post by: Kanluwen



You spent more effort being snarky than just copy/pasting the image URL.





GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/29 14:48:00


Post by: wict01


Sounds cool to me. The extra attack in exchange for 1 damage seems really handy.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/29 14:49:37


Post by: JWBS


 Kanluwen wrote:

You spent more effort being snarky than just copy/pasting the image URL.

You say that as if both of these two things are meant to be equivalent.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/29 14:53:21


Post by: Geifer


 xttz wrote:
New codex rules preview up

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/29/adeptus-custodes-crush-foes-with-devastating-battle-stances-in-the-new-codex/

After both sides have deployed, but before you have determined who will have the first turn, you must select a Convoluted Special Rule from the list opposite to explain to your opponent during the game. Note this down secretly on your roster, otherwise you won't remember which Convoluted Special Rule you picked.

In each of your Command phases, you must select half of the Convoluted Special Rule to explain to your opponent during the turn. This has some kind of benefit to your army.

Convoluted Special Rules cannot be used more than once per game in case we accidently made them too strong. They must also be used in a specific order for some reason. However if you are willing to spend command points there will inevitably be a strategem that lets you ignore these restrictions.


Thanks for the laugh.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/29 15:12:28


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


I miss when 40k didn't have forty layers of special rules on top of the main gameplay and the unit stats actually kinda mattered


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/29 15:45:22


Post by: the_scotsman


I really, really love the fact that this sentence:

"Sorry, but you can't fall back with that unit because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance 2, having already declared the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn"

has real meaning in the game warhammer 40,000. Absolute dadaist brilliance. Phenomenal. I watched my friend defend his doctoral thesis in theoretical particle physics yesterday and there were not just one but multiple sentences more comprehensible to me than the rules for this game i've played for over 15 years.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/29 16:29:04


Post by: yukishiro1


Man, it's like GW went out of their way to find the one thing no Custodes player was asking for or would even think to ask for, and gave it to them. It's hard for me to imagine a bigger miss.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/29 17:14:27


Post by: Asmodai


One of the things I previously liked about Custodes is that they mostly worked without a laundry list of special rules to remember and explain.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/29 17:58:37


Post by: Grimskul


Yeah, it's super weird that Custodes, who are mentioned to fight like a series of individuals or like lions, suddenly have an overarching army buff that forces everyone to follow a rigid process.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/29 18:06:14


Post by: Lord Damocles


Do YOU want to simulate the fact that the Custodes guard Holy Terra: seat of the Administratum? Well GOOD NEWS! Now you can with Codex: Adeptus Custodes' new tedious bookkeeping! More notes to make! More rules teetering atop the already gratuitous piling!


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/29 20:05:24


Post by: the_scotsman


 Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, it's super weird that Custodes, who are mentioned to fight like a series of individuals or like lions, suddenly have an overarching army buff that forces everyone to follow a rigid process.


Wait...but lions don't fight as...

....oh, never mind, it's space marine lore, whatever. Sure. Lions, famous for fighting 'as individuals', widely regarded as the most individualistic of the big cats.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/29 20:26:32


Post by: Quasistellar


I just feel like they had to shoe-horn this rule in there.

They were like:

Bob, the head codex planning guy: "hmm, every other army has a weird rule that requires book keeping and explaination/confusion for the opponent, so we'd better think of something!"

Codex editor Terry (aka unpaid intern that just rubber stamps OK on codexes): "hey, we should also use names that no one will ever, EVER be able to recognize or memorize or otherwise associate with the rule without looking it up"

Head codex guy Bob: <sweating>

GW el presidente: "Terry, how would you like to be the next Head Codex Honcho? You will be paid in Citadel Colour Spray Sticks."


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/29 20:51:58


Post by: Iracundus


I am more interested in what the GSC “summon the cult” rules previewed a little earlier (recover d3 models) might mean for Tyranids down the line. Maybe that will be how their numbers will be shown, in the form of rapidly “healing” tarpit units.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 02:13:43


Post by: Gadzilla666


Soooo......looks like the same people that wrote the Admech codex wrote the Custodes codex. Let's hope they stick with Imperials.....


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 04:40:21


Post by: alextroy


"We need to come up with a faction rule for the Custodes. Which of the existing style of rules should we use as the base."

"Everybody really hates the Necron Command Protocols were you have to choose the turn order of the bonuses before the game starts."

"We can improve on that and prove the players are wrong to hate that process! Great suggestion."


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 04:41:12


Post by: H.B.M.C.


It'd be even better if you rolled for them randomly.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 08:36:34


Post by: GiToRaZor


It really begs to wonder, how their internal feedback and review process looks like. The solution for this horrid design would have been obvious, give every squad the ability to declare an individual Kata (FU GW for unreasonable spelling of existing words. Extra minus points for the "add an apostrophe, it'll make it look sophisticated" BS) from the list in the Command Phase. No restrictions. Price the models accordingly. It would have been reasonably elite and thematic. Heck, they could even have sold markers for every Kata so that you can keep track like in KT.

I really dread for what BS they come up for IG in 2023. My expectation at this point is, declare an Order in the Command Phase. Any model in 6" to an Officer receives the benefit. Thereby finally nailing any theme of the special rule into a coffin after 3 editions of dilution.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 09:54:39


Post by: Geifer


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It'd be even better if you rolled for them randomly.


Next codex, alongside the release of a new model for the Drunken Shield-Master that lets you roll for an additional effect if he's your warlord.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 10:05:47


Post by: Ordana


I suspect its their answer to people complaining they want more decision making at the table and have gameplay be less pre-determined at the list building stage?

But its a horrible way to go about this and doesn't even really do that since you only ever have 2 choices while playing and what those are was decided beforehand.

And yes lore wise this completely goes against what Custodes armies are supposed to be. A collection of exceptional individual soldiers fighting their own battle but not working as a single cohesive unit.

Also if they made the Custodes and GSC somewhat mirror eachother, in the same way that GK and TS do this makes me really wonder wtf they are doing with GSC.
Arguably a rule like this would work much better for GSC where an ambush has been set ahead of time and different parts of the uprising will have been given objectives and orders ahead of time.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 13:18:44


Post by: Galas


The best part about Custodes was how simple in rules they were. To win you needed to use your stats and your units.

At least is not as bad as the Necron Protocols but feth meh, I would have liked more a flat bonus that I chose like sacred rites. Or nothing at all TBH.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 13:56:44


Post by: lord_blackfang


 Galas wrote:
The best part about Custodes was how simple in rules they were.


Are you sure you're not thinking of Heroquest?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 15:11:58


Post by: Gert


Nah those are just SoS kit parts, nothing new there. Kudos to GW for making an entire army out like 3 kits


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 15:12:07


Post by: Grimskul




I think it's just from the plastic kit, doesn't look like a new model.

Interesting to see that they're trying to make SoS standalone detachments more viable but I don't know if people will take them beyond the min 5 man Prosecutor squads for troops, and we don't know if they have any restrictions if they're in a detachment with Custodes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gert wrote:
Nah those are just SoS kit parts, nothing new there. Kudos to GW for making an entire army out like 3 kits


To be fair, they've got some practice from AoS. They basically did the same thing with Bonesplitterz.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 15:14:13


Post by: Gert


I be surprised to see restrictions on mixed forces since that's the point of the Talons. Maybe mixed forces lose access to the Cutsodes and SoS special rules but gain something else to supplant it but I doubt it'll be like the Cultist restrictions in the Tsons and DG books.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 15:19:25


Post by: Grimskul


 Gert wrote:
I be surprised to see restrictions on mixed forces since that's the point of the Talons. Maybe mixed forces lose access to the Cutsodes and SoS special rules but gain something else to supplant it but I doubt it'll be like the Cultist restrictions in the Tsons and DG books.


Yeah, and SoS aren't in the "cheap" range of cultists anyways so it would seem unnecessarily punitive given that SoS and Custodes are supposed to work in tandem with one another versus cultists being generally treated like slaves/cannon fodder.

We'll see if they add any new bespoke rules to the Datasheets for the SoS since I don't remember most of their units having much selling points besides being able to target/damage psykers more easily and their baseline Pariah rules.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 15:28:42


Post by: A.T.


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
New character. Totally unsure if new model. I think it’s just made from the basic kit?
Basic model, and by fortuitous coincidence the exact model that I converted a while back as a 'character'. IIRC it needed very few extra bitz over and above the spares in the squad box to put together an 11th sister.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 15:31:18


Post by: the_scotsman




GOOD fething lord no are you kidding man, GW would have to make a new sculpt for sisters of silence!!!

AND THEY SHALL KNOW. ONE. SPRUEEEE!


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 15:40:15


Post by: Grimskul


 the_scotsman wrote:


GOOD fething lord no are you kidding man, GW would have to make a new sculpt for sisters of silence!!!

AND THEY SHALL KNOW. ONE. SPRUEEEE!


It is really funny that GW has like an endless supply of primaris lieutenants sculpts in their closet or something but they can't be bothered with one official clampack HQ model for SoS.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 15:48:07


Post by: Asmodai


My plan is to just use Jenetia Krole as my Knight-Centura.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 15:51:12


Post by: chaos0xomega


 Gert wrote:
Nah those are just SoS kit parts, nothing new there. Kudos to GW for making an entire army out like 3 kits


Its only 1 kit. The Proesecutors, Vigilators, and Witchseekers are all built out of the same set of sprues/box (regardless of what name they put on the box itself). The HQ choice is just the unit sergeant from that box (I believe leaving you 4 sisters without a leader, though it sounds like someone else managed to squeeze one out from the leftover bits instead). The only additional unit in the army would be a rhino and land raider I guess, so in that sense I suppose it could be 3.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 15:58:25


Post by: Gert


Ahem, you forget the humble Rhino and the recent NC. Checkmate atheists!


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 16:10:36


Post by: Kanluwen


chaos0xomega wrote:
 Gert wrote:
Nah those are just SoS kit parts, nothing new there. Kudos to GW for making an entire army out like 3 kits


Its only 1 kit. The Proesecutors, Vigilators, and Witchseekers are all built out of the same set of sprues/box (regardless of what name they put on the box itself). The HQ choice is just the unit sergeant from that box (I believe leaving you 4 sisters without a leader, though it sounds like someone else managed to squeeze one out from the leftover bits instead). The only additional unit in the army would be a rhino and land raider I guess, so in that sense I suppose it could be 3.



Or it looks like 4 models being the base size, with 5 as an upgrade.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 16:31:18


Post by: chaos0xomega


 Kanluwen wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
 Gert wrote:
Nah those are just SoS kit parts, nothing new there. Kudos to GW for making an entire army out like 3 kits


Its only 1 kit. The Proesecutors, Vigilators, and Witchseekers are all built out of the same set of sprues/box (regardless of what name they put on the box itself). The HQ choice is just the unit sergeant from that box (I believe leaving you 4 sisters without a leader, though it sounds like someone else managed to squeeze one out from the leftover bits instead). The only additional unit in the army would be a rhino and land raider I guess, so in that sense I suppose it could be 3.



Or it looks like 4 models being the base size, with 5 as an upgrade.


No, they're 5 model units. The "HQ" unit is literally just the sergeant from the box built as a Vigilator. https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Vigilator-Squad

All what you're seeing in that photo is the base 5 model unit of Vigilators up front, 5 Witchseekers in the middle, and 5 Prosecutors in back. The Vigilator at the very front is the unit sergeant rather than the Knight-Centura HQ.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 16:45:50


Post by: Kanluwen


The two look exactly the same...which is kinda my point.



There's zero possibility they will not allow for you to build a minimum sized unit out of the box if you build the HQ.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 16:48:45


Post by: A.T.


chaos0xomega wrote:
though it sounds like someone else managed to squeeze one out from the leftover bits instead
I had a look at the left-over sprues at it is the torso/cloak that is missing. £2-3 from ebay, don't remember if I bothered to pick up a matching shoulder piece or not.



GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 16:49:08


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I’d bet some kind of bodyguard unit, four strong?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 16:55:11


Post by: GaroRobe


 Gert wrote:
Nah those are just SoS kit parts, nothing new there. Kudos to GW for making an entire army out like 3 kits


The Flesheater courts from AOS is pretty much that. They just took a dual kit, and kept combining different options until they had half a dozen different options. Honestly surprised they have divided up the blightkings into an "armored" and "unarmored" unit yet


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 17:28:51


Post by: Ordana


any particular reason why she has 1 point of movement more then you would normally expect?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 17:54:16


Post by: Kanluwen


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’d bet some kind of bodyguard unit, four strong?

I'd assume that if they were a bodyguard unit, they would have mentioned it in the article.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 18:07:19


Post by: jaredb


 Ordana wrote:
any particular reason why she has 1 point of movement more then you would normally expect?


All sisters of silence are currently move 7.


As someone who owns like 40 sisters of silence, I'm pretty excited about this news!


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 21:25:06


Post by: chaos0xomega


 Kanluwen wrote:
The two look exactly the same...which is kinda my point.



There's zero possibility they will not allow for you to build a minimum sized unit out of the box if you build the HQ.


If by "zero" you mean "every".

Want a Big Mek in Mega Armor? Build it from the Meganobz box and you have 2 left over Meganobz that aren't big enough to be a minimum sized unit.
Want a Flesh Eater Courts Crypt Haunter/Flayer Courtier? Build it from a box of Crypt Haunters/Flayers, you have 2 left over Haunters/Flayers that aren't big enough to be a minimum sized unit.
Want a FEC Crypt Ghast Courtier? Build from a box of Crypt Ghouls, leaving you 19 other Crypt Ghouls, which is big enough for a minimum sized unit of 10, but gives you 9 extra Ghouls that you won't want to field short of a full sized unit.
How about if you want an Adeptus Custodes Shield Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike? Gotta buy a box of Vertus Praetors to build it, leaving you 2 leftover Custodes on Jetbikes that you can't field as part of a minimum unit. Same with Shield Captains wearing Allarus Terminator armor, gotta buy the box of Allarus Terminators, leaving you 2 leftover dudes that you can't field as a min unit.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 21:48:28


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Yeah but apart from all that, there's, like, zero possibility!


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 22:12:03


Post by: Galas


When they made the Custodes Codex they changed the custodes squad from 5 min to 3 min to allow you to use the basic box as basically a start collecting of captain, troop squad and vexilla.

If woud like 4 girl squads of SoS but I'm not counting on it.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 22:27:51


Post by: Necronmaniac05


I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the Katah rules are garbage. Why do they think that 'pick x options from a list pre game before you know pretty much anything about how the game is going and then hope you didn't pick badly' is good rules design?

I genuinely didn't think they could come up with an army wide rule as bad as command protocols for necrons and to be fair these are not as bad. Dear god it was close though.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 22:29:42


Post by: Kanluwen


chaos0xomega wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
The two look exactly the same...which is kinda my point.
There's zero possibility they will not allow for you to build a minimum sized unit out of the box if you build the HQ.


If by "zero" you mean "every".

Want a Big Mek in Mega Armor? Build it from the Meganobz box and you have 2 left over Meganobz that aren't big enough to be a minimum sized unit.
Want a Flesh Eater Courts Crypt Haunter/Flayer Courtier? Build it from a box of Crypt Haunters/Flayers, you have 2 left over Haunters/Flayers that aren't big enough to be a minimum sized unit.
Want a FEC Crypt Ghast Courtier? Build from a box of Crypt Ghouls, leaving you 19 other Crypt Ghouls, which is big enough for a minimum sized unit of 10, but gives you 9 extra Ghouls that you won't want to field short of a full sized unit.
How about if you want an Adeptus Custodes Shield Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike? Gotta buy a box of Vertus Praetors to build it, leaving you 2 leftover Custodes on Jetbikes that you can't field as part of a minimum unit. Same with Shield Captains wearing Allarus Terminator armor, gotta buy the box of Allarus Terminators, leaving you 2 leftover dudes that you can't field as a min unit.

Black Templars Sword Brethren are 5 model boxed set, minimum unit size of 4 because you can build a hero.
Stormdrake Guard and Fulminators literally got a unique unit of 1 model that is tied to you fielding the alt build of a hero from a box.
Evocators (on foot and Dracoline) used to have a 4 and 2 model unit but no longer do.

We'll have to wait and see if Maggotkin get a similar rule for Pusgoyle Blightlords.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 22:31:11


Post by: Duskweaver


My guess is Vigilators (the sword-armed SoS), who are staying as an Elites choice, are going to be min-4 units (and maybe also have better stats), while the bolter (Troops) and flamer (FA) versions stay as min-5.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/11/30 22:39:43


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


GW would literally rather return to making rules for units without models than stop making Marines for a second, huh?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 00:12:06


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Kanluwen wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
If by "zero" you mean "every".
Black Templars Sword Brethren are 5 model boxed set, minimum unit size of 4 because you can build a hero.
Stormdrake Guard and Fulminators literally got a unique unit of 1 model that is tied to you fielding the alt build of a hero from a box.
Evocators (on foot and Dracoline) used to have a 4 and 2 model unit but no longer do.
So you found examples where they have, and he found examples where they haven't. That means you're both right, and both wrong.

The only consistency is GW's inconsistency.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
GW would literally rather return to making rules for units without models than stop making Marines for a second, huh?
Custodes aren't Marines.



GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 00:16:10


Post by: Platuan4th


 H.B.M.C. wrote:


 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
GW would literally rather return to making rules for units without models than stop making Marines for a second, huh?
Custodes aren't Marines.



Much as Wha-Mu annoys me, that was kind of their point.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 09:30:53


Post by: Geifer


While it is indeed a shame that GW can't be bothered to make an actual model for the Sisters leader, I wouldn't ever complain about getting such expanded unit options. Even if it's just done by relabeling a squad leader.

GW has real consistency issues, as H.B.M.C. is so fond of pointing out, and I'd rather see a lot more armies win the rules lottery like this than get the dodgy upgrade option limitations some units got in the last year.

Hurray for (inconsistent, possibly accidental) baby steps!

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the Katah rules are garbage. Why do they think that 'pick x options from a list pre game before you know pretty much anything about how the game is going and then hope you didn't pick badly' is good rules design?

I genuinely didn't think they could come up with an army wide rule as bad as command protocols for necrons and to be fair these are not as bad. Dear god it was close though.


Drugs? Insanity? Drug-induced insanity?

If that isn't your default answer to what the current rules designers do, you're being gracious.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 10:35:34


Post by: Duskweaver


 Geifer wrote:
If that isn't your default answer to what the current rules designers do, you're being gracious.

No, as was explained to me when I went to work for GW, the actual answer is "We hire for attitude/enthusiasm, not skills/ability/experience."

That's not to say they deliberately hire incompetent fanboys, but they're not trying to recruit the best of the best, either. They'll take a barely-competent, inexperienced designer who absolutely loves, lives and breathes Warhammer, rather than a highly-skilled and experienced designer who only vaguely knows what a Space Marine is.

So we get rules that are just about functional, but 'fluffy', not the sparklingly elegant, finely balanced, cutting-edge-of-modern-game-design system that a lot of Dakka-ites seem to want.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 14:06:37


Post by: Sunny Side Up


It should also be pointed that getting the "feel" of units / models right, matching the aesthetics and themes developed (pre-rules) by the artists, etc.. is a much higher priority to them then the "balance" a lot of Dakka obsesses about as the alleged primary goal of game design.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 14:39:30


Post by: Necronmaniac05


I don't mind a fluff heavy approach and don't really expect a perfectly balanced game but to me if a rule is incredibly situational, too random in how it works, unreliable/rarely triggers then it is not fun and if its not fun then I don't care how fluffy it is.

Command protocols are a perfect example of this. They're fluffy and the bonuses (well, some of them) are decent. However, its very difficult to get them to work reliably (protocol of the eternal guardian only to find you're going first for example) and so more often than not buffs go off at the wrong time and become useless. They're also taxed because you need nobles and characters to make them work and you lose them if those characters die. Living metal and reanimation protocols are similarly fluffy but rarely effectual rules.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 14:59:05


Post by: spiralingcadaver


Yeah, bad rules don't do that much to improve the "feel" of a unit except on paper. That flavorful niche special rule or just poorly thought out and unnecessarily difficult to execute mechanic is more likely IMHO to do the exact opposite of make the unit feel right, in practice. Bad design space is worse than unused design space, as it's information that gets in the way of more intuitively understanding or more quickly reviewing/assessing a unit. It's fine for characters or other rarer units, but such a chore in practice and across armies, worse than bloat even, it tends to just turn into noise.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 15:04:08


Post by: Ordana


Sunny Side Up wrote:
It should also be pointed that getting the "feel" of units / models right, matching the aesthetics and themes developed (pre-rules) by the artists, etc.. is a much higher priority to them then the "balance" a lot of Dakka obsesses about as the alleged primary goal of game design.
But that is part of the problem. The Kata rules do not thematically fit with Custodes, they are not an army that moves and acts as one, all doing the same thing. They are a force of individual soldiers that do not fight as a unit.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 15:13:24


Post by: JohnnyHell


 Ordana wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
It should also be pointed that getting the "feel" of units / models right, matching the aesthetics and themes developed (pre-rules) by the artists, etc.. is a much higher priority to them then the "balance" a lot of Dakka obsesses about as the alleged primary goal of game design.
But that is part of the problem. The Kata rules do not thematically fit with Custodes, they are not an army that moves and acts as one, all doing the same thing. They are a force of individual soldiers that do not fight as a unit.


They do now.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 15:18:22


Post by: Voss


 Ordana wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
It should also be pointed that getting the "feel" of units / models right, matching the aesthetics and themes developed (pre-rules) by the artists, etc.. is a much higher priority to them then the "balance" a lot of Dakka obsesses about as the alleged primary goal of game design.
But that is part of the problem. The Kata rules do not thematically fit with Custodes, they are not an army that moves and acts as one, all doing the same thing. They are a force of individual soldiers that do not fight as a unit.


Individual warriors (warrior-philosopher elites or whatever hogwash). GW rarely understands the distinction between soldier and warrior, and Guard are one of the few where it even vaguely feels they've latched onto the idea of 'soldiers' and only because the core of the army concept says they have to. Custodes are about as far from the concept as its possible to be.

That they just bounced on doing a sisters lieutenant (or whatever) is weird and annoying. Would have been better for the Shadowthrone box than 'leather custodes with a hackmaster+12'


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 15:22:24


Post by: Kanluwen


 Ordana wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
It should also be pointed that getting the "feel" of units / models right, matching the aesthetics and themes developed (pre-rules) by the artists, etc.. is a much higher priority to them then the "balance" a lot of Dakka obsesses about as the alleged primary goal of game design.
But that is part of the problem. The Kata rules do not thematically fit with Custodes, they are not an army that moves and acts as one, all doing the same thing. They are a force of individual soldiers that do not fight as a unit.

That was during the Great Crusade and its aftermath...and it was the observations of an Astartes.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 16:23:47


Post by: RaptorusRex


One password recovery later.

An online friend from the DMC area was not too pleased with this Ka'tah change. His problem was the added complexity, at least pre-game. I, myself, feel it's a flawed mechanic because it rewards you for holding to a rigid battle plan. I, as a Space Wolves player, like to have a pre-game plan for initial deployments and what to do generally. However, I recognize that plans must be able to adapt on the fly. This is such a universal truth it has become a maxim - "No plan survives first contact".

As to whether or not it's thematic, I feel it isn't. While the observation of the Custodes fighting style is indeed from Argel Tal's perspective, I feel that they are supposed to be individual warriors. Each Custodes is a massive investment on the Imperium's part, and they are only committed when circumstances are dire. As the Emperor himself said:

Each one of the Ten Thousand represents genetic lore acquired over many lifetimes. Each one of you is unique, a work of art never to be repeated. I am miserly with your lives, where I would spend so many others without a thought.


Furthermore, each Custodes' individuality is encouraged. They are taught arts, diplomacy, geography, history, etc. They are each forces in their own right, both politically and militarily. This is the nature of the Imperium's superhuman soldiers - compressing the fighting power of perhaps many hundreds of men into a couple of bodies.

Vast unified maneuvers and teamwork are an Astartes thing. They are a "band of brothers", whereas Custodes are quite the opposite.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 16:47:53


Post by: DreadfullyHopeful


 Duskweaver wrote:
 Geifer wrote:
If that isn't your default answer to what the current rules designers do, you're being gracious.

No, as was explained to me when I went to work for GW, the actual answer is "We hire for attitude/enthusiasm, not skills/ability/experience."

That's not to say they deliberately hire incompetent fanboys, but they're not trying to recruit the best of the best, either. They'll take a barely-competent, inexperienced designer who absolutely loves, lives and breathes Warhammer, rather than a highly-skilled and experienced designer who only vaguely knows what a Space Marine is.

So we get rules that are just about functional, but 'fluffy', not the sparklingly elegant, finely balanced, cutting-edge-of-modern-game-design system that a lot of Dakka-ites seem to want.


Let's not forget that if developers are fans they are also less likely to think of themselves as employees offering their expertise against remuneration and more as a "part of the family". Thus being more likely to work more for less, in the name of being paid with "passion".


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 17:26:52


Post by: yukishiro1


 Kanluwen wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
It should also be pointed that getting the "feel" of units / models right, matching the aesthetics and themes developed (pre-rules) by the artists, etc.. is a much higher priority to them then the "balance" a lot of Dakka obsesses about as the alleged primary goal of game design.
But that is part of the problem. The Kata rules do not thematically fit with Custodes, they are not an army that moves and acts as one, all doing the same thing. They are a force of individual soldiers that do not fight as a unit.

That was during the Great Crusade and its aftermath...and it was the observations of an Astartes.


No, it's literally all over the 8th edition Custodes book. They're individuals. They fight as individuals, each making their own individual calculations about how to respond in every given situation. This is from literally the first page of text in the codex, second paragraph:

However, where the warriors
of the Adeptus Astartes employ squad-level
tactics, their battle-brothers functioning as
a cohesive whole, the Custodians fight as
individuals.



The idea that these paragons of individuality have to get their boss to write down their tactics on a piece of paper before the battle and then decide ahead of time when he's going to pull out the paper and remind them what their tactics were is beyond silly. The new rules are about as far from fluffy as you could possibly get.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 17:29:50


Post by: Lord Damocles


 Kanluwen wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
It should also be pointed that getting the "feel" of units / models right, matching the aesthetics and themes developed (pre-rules) by the artists, etc.. is a much higher priority to them then the "balance" a lot of Dakka obsesses about as the alleged primary goal of game design.
But that is part of the problem. The Kata rules do not thematically fit with Custodes, they are not an army that moves and acts as one, all doing the same thing. They are a force of individual soldiers that do not fight as a unit.

That was during the Great Crusade and its aftermath...and it was the observations of an Astartes.

If you're going to play apologetics, at least try not to be so egregiously wrong.

'However, where the warriors of the Adeptus Astartes employ squad-level tactics, their battle-brothers functioning as a cohesive whole, the Custodians fight as individuals.'
Codex: Adeptus Custodes (8th ed.), pg.6


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 17:38:09


Post by: the_scotsman


 Lord Damocles wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
It should also be pointed that getting the "feel" of units / models right, matching the aesthetics and themes developed (pre-rules) by the artists, etc.. is a much higher priority to them then the "balance" a lot of Dakka obsesses about as the alleged primary goal of game design.
But that is part of the problem. The Kata rules do not thematically fit with Custodes, they are not an army that moves and acts as one, all doing the same thing. They are a force of individual soldiers that do not fight as a unit.

That was during the Great Crusade and its aftermath...and it was the observations of an Astartes.

If you're going to play apologetics, at least try not to be so egregiously wrong.

'However, where the warriors of the Adeptus Astartes employ squad-level tactics, their battle-brothers functioning as a cohesive whole, the Custodians fight as individuals.'
Codex: Adeptus Custodes (8th ed.), pg.6


Yeah, and they compare that to "lions" apparently.

Has anyone told a GW writer about lions? how lions do? Because youre either calling adeptus custodes extremely lazy (to be fair, I guess they did sleep for like 10,000 years) or youre calling them...not...people who fight as individuals...


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 17:51:10


Post by: Third_Age_of_Baggz


Oh BALLS! Seems the Golden Boys fans are in a tizzy!

As a fan myself, I'm willing to give this whole "Kung-Fu" stuff a try with my Custodes. It's really hard to say that this isn't "fluffy" for them. Between reading, the codex (8th), White Dwarf articles, Master of Mankind, Valdor, etc etc I'd agree with HBMC statement of GW's consistent inconsistency.

After 10,000 years of fluff, GW is still trying to find the Custodes "Voice".

It is what it is.....


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 18:01:57


Post by: Geifer


 Third_Age_of_Baggz wrote:
Oh BALLS! Seems the Golden Boys fans are in a tizzy!

As a fan myself, I'm willing to give this whole "Kung-Fu" stuff a try with my Custodes. It's really hard to say that this isn't "fluffy" for them. Between reading, the codex (8th), White Dwarf articles, Master of Mankind, Valdor, etc etc I'd agree with HBMC statement of GW's consistent inconsistency.

After 10,000 years of fluff, GW is still trying to find the Custodes "Voice".

It is what it is.....


Please, when you do, write a note for your opponent and tell them they should open it at the start of their third turn. The note should read:

"During your command phase, inform your opponent that their kung fu is weak."


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 19:09:57


Post by: yukishiro1


 the_scotsman wrote:


Has anyone told a GW writer about lions? how lions do? Because youre either calling adeptus custodes extremely lazy (to be fair, I guess they did sleep for like 10,000 years) or youre calling them...not...people who fight as individuals...


Lions don't fight at all. They're predators, they run from anything that isn't an easy kill. But putting that aside...

I dunno, I think the comparison actually sort-of works. They're not saying they fight individually, they're saying they fight as individuals even when in a group. I'm not sure that's really wrong re: how lions hunt. I don't think lions have a boss who writes down their tactics on a piece of paper and then pulls out the piece of paper telling the peon lions what to do. They each make their own judgments about what the situation entails. They do it in a coordinated fashion because they're smart and understand the value of working together, but not because anybody's relaying tactics to the other lions. I don't think any lion is raising her paw and telling them to use the Bitey Bitey Kata as opposed to the Run Around in Circles Kata or the Roll Over And Ask For Belly Scratches Kata.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 19:14:35


Post by: Galas


I think the comparison was about MALE lions vs astartes as a wolves pack. That works much better because female lions also hunts as a pack.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 19:24:31


Post by: the_scotsman


yukishiro1 wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:


Has anyone told a GW writer about lions? how lions do? Because youre either calling adeptus custodes extremely lazy (to be fair, I guess they did sleep for like 10,000 years) or youre calling them...not...people who fight as individuals...


Lions don't fight at all. They're predators, they run from anything that isn't an easy kill. But putting that aside...

I dunno, I think the comparison actually sort-of works. They're not saying they fight individually, they're saying they fight as individuals even when in a group. I'm not sure that's really wrong re: how lions hunt. I don't think lions have a boss who writes down their tactics on a piece of paper and then pulls out the piece of paper telling the peon lions what to do. They each make their own judgments about what the situation entails. They do it in a coordinated fashion because they're smart and understand the value of working together, but not because anybody's relaying tactics to the other lions. I don't think any lion is raising her paw and telling them to use the Bitey Bitey Kata as opposed to the Run Around in Circles Kata or the Roll Over And Ask For Belly Scratches Kata.


Right. Like every pack animal behaves during a hunt. Including wolves - the thing that theyre being used to 'contrast' against.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Galas wrote:
I think the comparison was about MALE lions vs astartes as a wolves pack. That works much better because female lions also hunts as a pack.


OK, so it is an apt comparison with how they sat around doing nothing for 99% of their existence then.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 19:28:01


Post by: Gert


I think they just used Lions because they're similar colours (gold) and bigger than Wolves. Plus the height of masculinity and all that stuff. It's not great, maybe a Bear would have been a better choice.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 19:48:59


Post by: Nurglitch


Does it matter?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 20:21:14


Post by: DreadfullyHopeful


 Nurglitch wrote:
Does it matter?


Hush you ! I for one could read thousand of posts about the inaccuracy of comparing the psycho-social organisation of large land mammals and an order of fictional golden super men from the 41st millennia. I mean , it's not as if Lion were used as symbols of regal might and authority for centuries and were now shorthand for "strong manly cool man".

I mean, yes it is quite silly.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 20:56:31


Post by: Mr. Burning


 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
 Nurglitch wrote:
Does it matter?


Hush you ! I for one could read thousand of posts about the inaccuracy of comparing the psycho-social organisation of large land mammals and an order of fictional golden super men from the 41st millennia. I mean , it's not as if Lion were used as symbols of regal might and authority for centuries and were now shorthand for "strong manly cool man".

I mean, yes it is quite silly.


Think of poor Jeremy the Lion.




GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 22:06:46


Post by: Duskweaver


"They're like lions because they either strut around looking magnificently useless, or laze about doing nothing productive, while the females actually do all the fething work." - Tanau Aleya probably


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 22:19:32


Post by: Togusa


 Grimskul wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:


GOOD fething lord no are you kidding man, GW would have to make a new sculpt for sisters of silence!!!

AND THEY SHALL KNOW. ONE. SPRUEEEE!


It is really funny that GW has like an endless supply of primaris lieutenants sculpts in their closet or something but they can't be bothered with one official clampack HQ model for SoS.


It's economics. How many people would really buy such a model? Given I have NEVER seen SoS on the tabletop, outside of promotional pictures and stuff like that, I have a hard time believing anyone even uses these models in the Custodes book. I doubt that's going to change. SoS seems like the most useless thing when we have SoB already. IMO.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 22:30:00


Post by: stratigo


wict01 wrote:
Sounds cool to me. The extra attack in exchange for 1 damage seems really handy.


It being once per game sucks though. Like that's something you want all game or none of the game.

 Duskweaver wrote:
 Geifer wrote:
If that isn't your default answer to what the current rules designers do, you're being gracious.

No, as was explained to me when I went to work for GW, the actual answer is "We hire for attitude/enthusiasm, not skills/ability/experience."

That's not to say they deliberately hire incompetent fanboys, but they're not trying to recruit the best of the best, either. They'll take a barely-competent, inexperienced designer who absolutely loves, lives and breathes Warhammer, rather than a highly-skilled and experienced designer who only vaguely knows what a Space Marine is.

So we get rules that are just about functional, but 'fluffy', not the sparklingly elegant, finely balanced, cutting-edge-of-modern-game-design system that a lot of Dakka-ites seem to want.


The main reason they do this is to pay them like gak though. Enthusiasm is only worthwhile for how much they can talk your paycheck down

 Third_Age_of_Baggz wrote:
Oh BALLS! Seems the Golden Boys fans are in a tizzy!

As a fan myself, I'm willing to give this whole "Kung-Fu" stuff a try with my Custodes. It's really hard to say that this isn't "fluffy" for them. Between reading, the codex (8th), White Dwarf articles, Master of Mankind, Valdor, etc etc I'd agree with HBMC statement of GW's consistent inconsistency.

After 10,000 years of fluff, GW is still trying to find the Custodes "Voice".

It is what it is.....


I am absolutely tickled by the idea that custodes start every battle practicing their kung fu, it's hilarious.

But I want the rulles to be both good and... good XD


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/01 23:43:16


Post by: Arbitrator


While you were crusading away from Terra, I studied the bla'de.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 09:38:09


Post by: Sunny Side Up


 Ordana wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
It should also be pointed that getting the "feel" of units / models right, matching the aesthetics and themes developed (pre-rules) by the artists, etc.. is a much higher priority to them then the "balance" a lot of Dakka obsesses about as the alleged primary goal of game design.
But that is part of the problem. The Kata rules do not thematically fit with Custodes, they are not an army that moves and acts as one, all doing the same thing. They are a force of individual soldiers that do not fight as a unit.


Well, it's not like they are playing very individually different at the moment. Right now, Custodes are a simple math-check to the opponent in the tradition of 8th ed. Plaguebearer or Tau Drones spam. Switching it up a little by actually adding decision points can't possibly make it worse.




GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 09:53:53


Post by: Geifer


 Togusa wrote:
Spoiler:
 Grimskul wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:


GOOD fething lord no are you kidding man, GW would have to make a new sculpt for sisters of silence!!!

AND THEY SHALL KNOW. ONE. SPRUEEEE!


It is really funny that GW has like an endless supply of primaris lieutenants sculpts in their closet or something but they can't be bothered with one official clampack HQ model for SoS.


It's economics. How many people would really buy such a model? Given I have NEVER seen SoS on the tabletop, outside of promotional pictures and stuff like that, I have a hard time believing anyone even uses these models in the Custodes book. I doubt that's going to change. SoS seems like the most useless thing when we have SoB already. IMO.


Aside from being women in power armor, there's no overlap between Sisters of Silence and Sisters of Battle. Sisters of Battle are a complete, functional army with all that entails, that lacks the one thing Sisters of Silence exist to provide: dedicated psychic defense. Sisters of Silence have a completely different function to a squad of Sisters of Battle. Lorewise, they're also as far apart as you can be.

Sisters of Silence came out as plastic models before Sisters of Battle received theirs, and primarily for Horus Heresy with 40k rules as a bonus. They, like Custodes at the time, were a single squad meant to be allied into an Imperial army. When GW finally got around to making Codex Adeptus Custodes, rather than Codex Talons of the Emperor, Custodes were elevated to a full army and instead of integrating Sisters of Silence as a specialist unit in that army as they should have, GW instead left them orphaned as one of those units that technically exist, but that simply don't get to appear in a mainline codex. Much like Inquisition, really. That means less exposure for Sisters of Silence and less reason to take them. Even less so after GW shifted their rules design away from merry souping to powerful mono-faction bonuses. Sisters of Silence have to be integrated into the Custodes codex, which, again, is where they belonged in the first place, if they are to stand any chance of being taken in their own army lest they break the weak kung fu GW is adding to the new codex.

And with being a full part of the army, finally, you have to ask the question whether they should have an HQ character to go with them. GW asked that question and found the answer to be yes. So apparently at least they think the idea has merit. As far as your comment about economics goes, it was long held to be true that Sisters of Battle didn't warrant translation to plastic, both by GW and a portion of the community. Now it looks like Sisters are a popular seller and the only thing that got in the way of making money on plastic Sisters was GW's refusal to make them. This applies to a number of other models as well. For a Sisters of Silence character, GW has the sculptors and plastic casting expertise to make such a model look good and desirable. If it still fails to sell, they have rules writers that can help popularity along. But none of that matters if the model doesn't exist in the first place. As much as you can say without data it's prudent not to invest in the mold, it's just as easy to argue that without investment, you'll never see returns. Since GW has been making plastic characters for over a decade now, it's probably a safe assumption to say character clampacks have worked out for them if they keep investing in them. And at that point you have to ask, if they want to make Sisters of Silence successful, why shy away from that investment?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 10:03:12


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


Maybe people would use SoS on tabletop if GW actually gave a gak about them.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 10:47:56


Post by: Sunny Side Up


The idea of a company being able to generate the demand for a product simply by producing/selling it is ludicrous.

If that were the case, no product or product line and ultimately no company would ever fail. We'd all be drinking New-Coke, drive Delorians and watch Apple TV all day.

GW cannot dictate what people buy or don't buy. They have to make guesses and weigh the risks/rewards for investing X amount of money into Product Y like every company ever, from the one-guy-in-mom's-basement operation to General Motors, Microsoft & co.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 11:32:41


Post by: Arbitrator


Sunny Side Up wrote:
The idea of a company being able to generate the demand for a product simply by producing/selling it is ludicrous.

If that were the case, no product or product line and ultimately no company would ever fail. We'd all be drinking New-Coke, drive Delorians and watch Apple TV all day.

GW cannot dictate what people buy or don't buy. They have to make guesses and weigh the risks/rewards for investing X amount of money into Product Y like every company ever, from the one-guy-in-mom's-basement operation to General Motors, Microsoft & co.

Worked for AoS didn't it?

GW's fanbase can't really be viewed the same way a normal company's would be. If GW want to market, push and shift something onto their fanbase, then eventually something just clicks into place and it happens. Sure, they'd never hit Marine sales - Sigmarines are a testament to that - but generally if GW show their intention to support something longterm, they seem to do extremely well out of something no matter what.



GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 12:16:29


Post by: Sunny Side Up


 Arbitrator wrote:


GW's fanbase can't really be viewed the same way a normal company's would be. If GW want to market, push and shift something onto their fanbase, then eventually something just clicks into place and it happens. Sure, they'd never hit Marine sales - Sigmarines are a testament to that - but generally if GW show their intention to support something longterm, they seem to do extremely well out of something no matter what.



No.

Collapse of WHB and re-launch using AoS is the best example it doesn't.

For nearly 2 decades, GW had a perfectly matched release schedule. One month WFB, one month 40K. One Army book WFB, one Codex 40K. They basically ran the 50% WFB / 50% 40K business from the late 90s to start of AoS. By that logic, WFB and 40K should've always been equal in sales, popularity, etc.. and WFB would've never failed.

Point is, it didn't work and they had to let WFB die (but not 40K), despite both games having gotten exactly the same releases and attention for literally decades. It's one of the best case studies there is on why companies cannot influence demand and success of products, but are better of designing products to meet the existing demand (as good as they can do, being an imperfect process).


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 14:03:23


Post by: tneva82


Well obviously not everything can sell same. Whfb failed only in terms of not matching marine sales. Still profitable and top-3 selling miniature game in world. But not marine level and for kirby not marine level sales=bad


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 14:28:59


Post by: Galas


 Arbitrator wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
The idea of a company being able to generate the demand for a product simply by producing/selling it is ludicrous.

If that were the case, no product or product line and ultimately no company would ever fail. We'd all be drinking New-Coke, drive Delorians and watch Apple TV all day.

GW cannot dictate what people buy or don't buy. They have to make guesses and weigh the risks/rewards for investing X amount of money into Product Y like every company ever, from the one-guy-in-mom's-basement operation to General Motors, Microsoft & co.

Worked for AoS didn't it?

GW's fanbase can't really be viewed the same way a normal company's would be. If GW want to market, push and shift something onto their fanbase, then eventually something just clicks into place and it happens. Sure, they'd never hit Marine sales - Sigmarines are a testament to that - but generally if GW show their intention to support something longterm, they seem to do extremely well out of something no matter what.



No it didn't, AoS at launch was a massive failure and the worst and best example of GW thinking themselves too good to fail and "Our customers will buy whatever we put out"

 xttz wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/02/the-upcoming-genestealer-cults-codex-lets-you-pin-flank-and-destroy-with-the-crossfire-rule/

Cool, they brought the old Epic crossfire rule into 40k


A very cool mechanic but a shame is only for Genestealer Cult. That would add tactical depth to the game.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 15:02:18


Post by: The Phazer


Yeah, interesting, but it's odd to add such a mechanic to just a single faction really. It almost feels more Tau ish.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 15:12:17


Post by: bullyboy


Yet no downside about shots actually hitting the friendly model(s) that are directly in the line of fire on the opposite side!!! lol


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 15:14:38


Post by: Asmodai


 the_scotsman wrote:
I really, really love the fact that this sentence:

"Sorry, but you can't fall back with that unit because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance 2, having already declared the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn"

has real meaning in the game warhammer 40,000. Absolute dadaist brilliance. Phenomenal. I watched my friend defend his doctoral thesis in theoretical particle physics yesterday and there were not just one but multiple sentences more comprehensible to me than the rules for this game i've played for over 15 years.


But wait, there's more! https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/02/powerful-new-shield-host-rules-cement-the-adeptus-custodes-as-the-true-elites-of-humanity/

"Sorry, but you can't fall back with that unit because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance 2, having already declared the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn, I'm allowed to do this despite declaring the primary kaptaris ka'tah stance 1 the turn before that because kapataris is the martial ka'tah of my Shield Host, having chosen to forgo Magna Imperator."


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 15:17:05


Post by: Grimskul


 Asmodai wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:
I really, really love the fact that this sentence:

"Sorry, but you can't fall back with that unit because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance 2, having already declared the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn"

has real meaning in the game warhammer 40,000. Absolute dadaist brilliance. Phenomenal. I watched my friend defend his doctoral thesis in theoretical particle physics yesterday and there were not just one but multiple sentences more comprehensible to me than the rules for this game i've played for over 15 years.


But wait, there's more! https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/02/powerful-new-shield-host-rules-cement-the-adeptus-custodes-as-the-true-elites-of-humanity/

"Sorry, but you can't fall back with that unit because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance 2, having already declared the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn, I'm allowed to do this despite declaring the primary kaptaris ka'tah stance 1 the turn before that because kapataris is the martial ka'tah of my Shield Host, having chosen to forgo Magna Imperator."


I am very happy that I chose not to give into the temptation of starting a Custodes side army now. My god what is that word gumbo.

I also like how they already have a typo where the relic spear hits at strength 2, not Strength PLUS two.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 15:31:33


Post by: catbarf


xttz wrote:https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/02/the-upcoming-genestealer-cults-codex-lets-you-pin-flank-and-destroy-with-the-crossfire-rule/

Cool, they brought the old Epic crossfire rule into 40k


I find it extremely amusing that basic military concepts of crossfire and covering fire are not game-wide rules, nor rules for a professional military force, but instead special rules for a faction composed of rag-tag alien hybrids.

At least it does fit their MO- and makes positioning from Deep Strike more relevant.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 15:35:29


Post by: Ordana


I literally read the start of that Custodes article and said 'this is to complicated, I'm going to stop reading this'. feth me that looks bad.

As for the GSC. Its ok? Its not overly complicated. 2 units being in line of a 3e is most of the time not going to cause long discussions with your opponent and it adds more weight to movement.

I do concur that it also feels more Tau then GSC tho. And if we give an army like GSC access to such 'easy' +1 to hit and +1 to wound. WTF are they going to do to Tau?

Also looks like confimation that GSC will get unit upgrades in the same style of GK and TS. Perfect Ambush being one such upgrade. 15 points for a once per game +1 hit and +1 wound seems real good.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 15:40:25


Post by: Valkyrie


I can't be the only one who wishes the stances were easier to understand.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 15:52:19


Post by: Voss


Oh, oh. Shield Host is chapter tactics. That took... longer to establish than it should have. Or is Fighting Style Chapter Tactics?

And shield host lets you use a kata twice because you're using the other one despite using both. OK, sure. By GW logic, that works, I guess.

"And that's not all," the article says. Feth you.

---
That GSC article reads like a preview of new shooting rules.
I can't imagine they'll go a full edition without Space Marines being able to benefit from the crossfire or exposed conditions.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 15:55:18


Post by: Not Online!!!


Oof that is ... pretty nasty, that crossfire and exposed.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 16:11:00


Post by: Daedalus81


 Ordana wrote:
Also looks like confimation that GSC will get unit upgrades in the same style of GK and TS. Perfect Ambush being one such upgrade. 15 points for a once per game +1 hit and +1 wound seems real good.


It really depends on what units get Crossfire and how other non-Crossfire units interact with Exposed units.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 16:14:05


Post by: Rihgu


Is the Custodes stuff not nearly identical to the Necron stuff in how it operates?

Before the game, set 3 kata which have 2 abilities each. Each subfaction lets you use both kata abilities at once for one set of kata.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 16:22:06


Post by: bullyboy


Seriously GW, stop, this is getting beyond ridiculous.
reading through the Custodes rules is a nightmare and we have just been given snippets. someone across the table could play any damn rule they'd want and I would be none the wiser. Will probably stop me from going to events as I simply just don't need the headache.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 16:26:04


Post by: Ordana


Rihgu wrote:
Is the Custodes stuff not nearly identical to the Necron stuff in how it operates?

Before the game, set 3 kata which have 2 abilities each. Each subfaction lets you use both kata abilities at once for one set of kata.
its a little more freedom then Necrons since your only forced to move on to the next kata after having used both options of the previous. So you can stall for time and go 1a-1b-2a-2b-3a or if you need your 2nd kata in turn 2 you can go 1a-2a-2b-3a-3b.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 16:30:59


Post by: Galas


I'll take a patrol of Tempestus Scions to just not have to bother with this Ka'tah nonsense.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 16:32:47


Post by: Gert


You could just not use it, no need to bother with extra detachments of Scions


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 16:53:08


Post by: VictorVonTzeentch


This Custodes stuff all looks like a mess, not a huge fan of what I am seeing.

Also the article seems like its got some mistakes, like talking about the Dread Host, but showing the Gilded Guardians.

Then theres the guardian spear relic for the Solar Watch, being S2 in melee.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 16:59:14


Post by: Voss


Rihgu wrote:
Is the Custodes stuff not nearly identical to the Necron stuff in how it operates?

Before the game, set 3 kata which have 2 abilities each. Each subfaction lets you use both kata abilities at once for one set of kata.


Its similar, but the increased flexibility makes for a lot more gotcha moments. Necrons are locked into a choice every round, and the opponent can just say 'yeah, no' by sniping characters or locking them down so they aren't close enough to units that matter to pass on the buffs.

On turn 2+, Custodes have 3 choices to metagame your plans with. (starting with 1b, 2a or 2b), and none of the previews have the same look of necrons (like the common first turn protocol: where if you go first, one of the choices is useless, so you don't have a choice).


Mostly, though its just the way the article is organized and written. Things don't match up and aren't introduced well, and the transitions really suck. Obvious example: the Dread Host get the dakkamelee stance, but they then jump to talking about increased AP and 'more chance to guarantee charges,' then immediate show a pic of the Gilded Guardians style, which is about heroic interventions and ignoring AP, which is followed by 'pick this shield host when you absolutely positively want an enemy force incredibly dead.' Is this a slightly misplaced commentary on the Dread Host, or is it about the Gilded Guardians and heroic interventions and the Salvus kata are just that good? No way to tell, because it immediately launches into a strat for a completely different Host.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 17:24:35


Post by: The Black Adder


I do think the custodes rules could be written far more simply than the extracts of the rules from the upcoming codex. Somebody needs to give the rules writer a lesson in plain simple English. As for the comparison with the necron equivalent rules it just shows (yet again) how poor those bonuses are for the necrons. The necrons have to jump through hoops for less substantive benefits

The application of army wide pre-planned benefits seems anathema to the custodes. Whilst more flexible than the doctrine system or power from pain, which are sequenced, it's still more constrained than canticles or dogmas. I'd have preferred fighting stances as character auras as the largest grouping of models in a custodes force, better yet single unit bonuses (albeit requiring more book keeping than I'd like).

I really like the look of the gsc rules and I agree that the game overall would be improved by making such rules more widespread. At least they're easy to understand and do a good job of reflecting the benefits of ambushing the enemy.

I'm not looking forward to the rules induced migraine caused by playing against my friend's custodes when the codex drops.

I'm looking forward to using my gsc when the codex drops.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 17:28:00


Post by: Quasistellar


Wow custodes rules just keep looking more and more annoying.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 17:29:21


Post by: Arbitrator


Crossfire's a cute way of making GSC more than just go-melee-or-go-home. I imagine it'll mostly come down to shooting with Neophytes so your Ridgerunners can do their job, maybe with the Alphus automatically applying a token or whatever.

Those Custodes rules though. Yikes.

 Galas wrote:
 Arbitrator wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
The idea of a company being able to generate the demand for a product simply by producing/selling it is ludicrous.

If that were the case, no product or product line and ultimately no company would ever fail. We'd all be drinking New-Coke, drive Delorians and watch Apple TV all day.

GW cannot dictate what people buy or don't buy. They have to make guesses and weigh the risks/rewards for investing X amount of money into Product Y like every company ever, from the one-guy-in-mom's-basement operation to General Motors, Microsoft & co.

Worked for AoS didn't it?

GW's fanbase can't really be viewed the same way a normal company's would be. If GW want to market, push and shift something onto their fanbase, then eventually something just clicks into place and it happens. Sure, they'd never hit Marine sales - Sigmarines are a testament to that - but generally if GW show their intention to support something longterm, they seem to do extremely well out of something no matter what.



No it didn't, AoS at launch was a massive failure and the worst and best example of GW thinking themselves too good to fail and "Our customers will buy whatever we put out".

Except it eventually did. They slapped some points on their barely-existent ruleset and it sprung up to the second most popular tabletop game after 40k before 2e was even a thing.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 18:06:13


Post by: JWBS


So they did have to offer something people actually want to buy, instead of just overturning bins full of product at a local point of congregation and telling people to form an orderly queue, is what your saying.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 18:10:25


Post by: chaos0xomega


 Grimskul wrote:
 Asmodai wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:
I really, really love the fact that this sentence:

"Sorry, but you can't fall back with that unit because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance 2, having already declared the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn"

has real meaning in the game warhammer 40,000. Absolute dadaist brilliance. Phenomenal. I watched my friend defend his doctoral thesis in theoretical particle physics yesterday and there were not just one but multiple sentences more comprehensible to me than the rules for this game i've played for over 15 years.


But wait, there's more! https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/02/powerful-new-shield-host-rules-cement-the-adeptus-custodes-as-the-true-elites-of-humanity/

"Sorry, but you can't fall back with that unit because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance 2, having already declared the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn, I'm allowed to do this despite declaring the primary kaptaris ka'tah stance 1 the turn before that because kapataris is the martial ka'tah of my Shield Host, having chosen to forgo Magna Imperator."


I am very happy that I chose not to give into the temptation of starting a Custodes side army now. My god what is that word gumbo.

I also like how they already have a typo where the relic spear hits at strength 2, not Strength PLUS two.


I am convinced that the lead designer on Necrons, AdMech and Custodes was the same person. This game does not need and should not have factions which have special rules that change every fething turn. Its confusing enough as it is without throwing that hand grenade of a design feature into the mix.

At the very least, this gak should be like "here is a menu of options you can apply to your army each turn, you pick one each command phase, have fun" without all these requirements and stipulations that you can't select the same one more than once or in back to back turns or if you pick from a different option then you can't go back and use the sub-option from the one you used previously, etc. Theres far too much gak to remember which isn't directly tied to board state - its really piss poor game design.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The GSC Crossfire/Exposed rule is pretty neat, agree that it makes more sense/should be core rules that everyone plays with rather than rules for one specific faction. I understand the angle they are going for with giving it to GSC, but thats the sort of maneuver warfare doctrine that you would expect trained and drilled military forces to leverage rather than something you would expect from ragtag rebels.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 18:24:38


Post by: bullyboy


Whoever decided upon the Necron, Custodes, Admech rules must be thinking the game has about 10-15 models on the table like a skirmish. No reason whatsoever that so much detail and bloat should be added to a tabletop wargame of this scale.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 19:07:25


Post by: Daedalus81


Seen elsewhere:

Ka’tah’s are wordy but pretty straightforward:

1) You pick 3 of them after deployment and order them 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.
2) In your first command phase, you activate one of the choices from your 1st. 1a or 1b.
3) In your next command phase, you can either pick the other option from your first or go to 2 and pick 2a or 2b. If you go to 2 you can never go back to 1.
4) In your next command phase you can pick the other 2 or go to 3 just like in the last step.

Once you’re at 3, you only have the two options left. You can run out early. There may be a strat to manipulate ka’tahs like doctrines but I’m doubtful.

The only modifier to this is that every shield host will have a preferred ka’tah. While that one is active, you don’t pick a or b, you get both once per game.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 19:18:13


Post by: Tyran


 bullyboy wrote:
Whoever decided upon the Necron, Custodes, Admech rules must be thinking the game has about 10-15 models on the table like a skirmish. No reason whatsoever that so much detail and bloat should be added to a tabletop wargame of this scale.

To be fair to Custodes, they usually only have 20-30 models on the table, being the third most elite army after both flavors of Knights.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 19:24:36


Post by: Umbros


 Tyran wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
Whoever decided upon the Necron, Custodes, Admech rules must be thinking the game has about 10-15 models on the table like a skirmish. No reason whatsoever that so much detail and bloat should be added to a tabletop wargame of this scale.

To be fair to Custodes, they usually only have 20-30 models on the table, being the third most elite army after both flavors of Knights.


and let's be real, the Necron Command Protocols might as well not exist.

Though I agree with the point that they are just unnecessary complexity.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 19:25:13


Post by: Necronmaniac05


Does any necron player even bother with command protocols? I think I've used them like once.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 19:43:25


Post by: Irbis


It could have been so much simpler and fluffier: "Before game, assign each of your units kata of your choice. That unit can use one of two benefits once per game. If your shield host likes that kata, it can be used twice, but different benefit each time". There, done.

Also, I like GSC nonsense. That terminator, that walked through hundreds of las shots without anything more serious than slightly burned paint on his plate? Now hides in corner huddling his head in his power fist refusing to fight because he was hit five times with a thrown rock. Or that warlord titan next to him? It can suddenly be blown up with S3 hand flamers as they disproportionately benefit with +1 to wound roll. Necromunda bit makers knew what they were doing, it's new melta

Another funny thing - you can be exposed if you are hit five times even if these hits do nothing, but you aren't exposed if these shots will kill half of your unit and you strategically remove models in a way that stops GSC player from drawing a line. Apparently guns cease to be scary if they are really effective at killing your buddies


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 19:58:41


Post by: chaos0xomega


 Daedalus81 wrote:
Seen elsewhere:

Ka’tah’s are wordy but pretty straightforward:

1) You pick 3 of them after deployment and order them 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.
2) In your first command phase, you activate one of the choices from your 1st. 1a or 1b.
3) In your next command phase, you can either pick the other option from your first or go to 2 and pick 2a or 2b. If you go to 2 you can never go back to 1.
4) In your next command phase you can pick the other 2 or go to 3 just like in the last step.

Once you’re at 3, you only have the two options left. You can run out early. There may be a strat to manipulate ka’tahs like doctrines but I’m doubtful.

The only modifier to this is that every shield host will have a preferred ka’tah. While that one is active, you don’t pick a or b, you get both once per game.


Thats not straightforward at all. We all get how the rule works, the issue is not one of people not understanding the rules or how they work, the issue is one of the mental overhead and bookkeeping required to actually use the rule. You gotta pick your 3 katas - each of which provides you with 2 separate and distinct rules - then you gotta know which 2 katas are linked to eachother and figure out when to use them, you have to remember which ones you have already used, etc. Its a ton of overhead and bookkeeping that isn't actually built into actual gameplay with any sort of dashboard or system to track any of that. The designers put that on you as the player to create your own tokens/system for tracking that, and while printing out a sheet with all this stuff written up on it and just crossing stuff out as needed is easy enough, its still an unnecessary burden to actually have to reference back to that as you play to put it into use.

It could have been so much simpler and fluffier: "Before game, assign each of your units kata of your choice. That unit can use one of two benefits once per game. If your shield host likes that kata, it can be used twice, but different benefit each time". There, done.


Thats not really simpler, now you would have to track a separate kata for every unit in your army which is arguably even more confusing. The simplest way of doing it would be to just give you a list of abilities to choose from and say "choose 1 to apply to your entire army each command phase". Done. No need for "can only use it once unless its your special thing then you get to use it twice" and all the tracking that comes with it, no need to track each unit individually, etc. Its just a bonus that you can implement each turn to give you that extra edge you might need.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 20:41:51


Post by: Ordana


 Daedalus81 wrote:
Seen elsewhere:

Ka’tah’s are wordy but pretty straightforward:

1) You pick 3 of them after deployment and order them 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.
2) In your first command phase, you activate one of the choices from your 1st. 1a or 1b.
3) In your next command phase, you can either pick the other option from your first or go to 2 and pick 2a or 2b. If you go to 2 you can never go back to 1.
4) In your next command phase you can pick the other 2 or go to 3 just like in the last step.

Once you’re at 3, you only have the two options left. You can run out early. There may be a strat to manipulate ka’tahs like doctrines but I’m doubtful.

The only modifier to this is that every shield host will have a preferred ka’tah. While that one is active, you don’t pick a or b, you get both once per game.
except that with your prefered kata you still have to pick a or b, and then you chose if you want both, regardless of if you already did the other one.

so assuming kata 2 is your preferred you can go '2a, next turn 2b + a' or '2a +b, next turn 2b'


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 21:53:30


Post by: Gadzilla666


 The Phazer wrote:
Yeah, interesting, but it's odd to add such a mechanic to just a single faction really. It almost feels more Tau ish.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Tau and the Guard get similar rules. This definitely sounds how multiple squads of Guardsmen should work together.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 22:04:22


Post by: kurhanik


Crossfire and Exposed are neat, but it kind of feels like they should be basic rules of the game, not some specialist rule for a single faction. Also not quite sure why exposed has a 12" limit on it, I'd imagine lighting up a heavy unit like a christmas tree would give the lascannon operator farther back, or a sharpshooter an easier shot. I mean, the game is lethal enough as it is so limitations on how this can be used is probably a good thing.

Still just odd to me why this isn't core rule level stuff, and comes with some sort of suppression mechanic as the target unit hunkers down to avoid needless casualties.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 22:15:18


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Asmodai wrote:
"Sorry, but you can't fall back with that unit because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance 2, having already declared the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn, I'm allowed to do this despite declaring the primary kaptaris ka'tah stance 1 the turn before that because kapataris is the martial ka'tah of my Shield Host, having chosen to forgo Magna Imperator."
Are... are you having a stroke?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/02 22:38:22


Post by: Platuan4th


 kurhanik wrote:
Crossfire and Exposed are neat, but it kind of feels like they should be basic rules of the game


I said the exact same thing to my group the moment I saw them.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/03 00:03:43


Post by: xttz


 Platuan4th wrote:
 kurhanik wrote:
Crossfire and Exposed are neat, but it kind of feels like they should be basic rules of the game


I said the exact same thing to my group the moment I saw them.


Tyranids were the first faction to get Objective Secured before it was rolled into the main game. Maybe GSC are the test bed for this rule being in 10th?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/03 01:54:12


Post by: tneva82


 Ordana wrote:
Rihgu wrote:
Is the Custodes stuff not nearly identical to the Necron stuff in how it operates?

Before the game, set 3 kata which have 2 abilities each. Each subfaction lets you use both kata abilities at once for one set of kata.
its a little more freedom then Necrons since your only forced to move on to the next kata after having used both options of the previous. So you can stall for time and go 1a-1b-2a-2b-3a or if you need your 2nd kata in turn 2 you can go 1a-2a-2b-3a-3b.


And the subfaction one you can use better bonus 2 turns in row.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/03 02:40:17


Post by: Quasistellar


 kurhanik wrote:
Crossfire and Exposed are neat, but it kind of feels like they should be basic rules of the game, not some specialist rule for a single faction. Also not quite sure why exposed has a 12" limit on it, I'd imagine lighting up a heavy unit like a christmas tree would give the lascannon operator farther back, or a sharpshooter an easier shot. I mean, the game is lethal enough as it is so limitations on how this can be used is probably a good thing.

Still just odd to me why this isn't core rule level stuff, and comes with some sort of suppression mechanic as the target unit hunkers down to avoid needless casualties.


Maybe this will get implemented for all the BS4 armies?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/03 03:41:00


Post by: Togusa


 Geifer wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
Spoiler:
 Grimskul wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:


GOOD fething lord no are you kidding man, GW would have to make a new sculpt for sisters of silence!!!

AND THEY SHALL KNOW. ONE. SPRUEEEE!


It is really funny that GW has like an endless supply of primaris lieutenants sculpts in their closet or something but they can't be bothered with one official clampack HQ model for SoS.


It's economics. How many people would really buy such a model? Given I have NEVER seen SoS on the tabletop, outside of promotional pictures and stuff like that, I have a hard time believing anyone even uses these models in the Custodes book. I doubt that's going to change. SoS seems like the most useless thing when we have SoB already. IMO.


Aside from being women in power armor, there's no overlap between Sisters of Silence and Sisters of Battle. Sisters of Battle are a complete, functional army with all that entails, that lacks the one thing Sisters of Silence exist to provide: dedicated psychic defense. Sisters of Silence have a completely different function to a squad of Sisters of Battle. Lorewise, they're also as far apart as you can be.

Sisters of Silence came out as plastic models before Sisters of Battle received theirs, and primarily for Horus Heresy with 40k rules as a bonus. They, like Custodes at the time, were a single squad meant to be allied into an Imperial army. When GW finally got around to making Codex Adeptus Custodes, rather than Codex Talons of the Emperor, Custodes were elevated to a full army and instead of integrating Sisters of Silence as a specialist unit in that army as they should have, GW instead left them orphaned as one of those units that technically exist, but that simply don't get to appear in a mainline codex. Much like Inquisition, really. That means less exposure for Sisters of Silence and less reason to take them. Even less so after GW shifted their rules design away from merry souping to powerful mono-faction bonuses. Sisters of Silence have to be integrated into the Custodes codex, which, again, is where they belonged in the first place, if they are to stand any chance of being taken in their own army lest they break the weak kung fu GW is adding to the new codex.

And with being a full part of the army, finally, you have to ask the question whether they should have an HQ character to go with them. GW asked that question and found the answer to be yes. So apparently at least they think the idea has merit. As far as your comment about economics goes, it was long held to be true that Sisters of Battle didn't warrant translation to plastic, both by GW and a portion of the community. Now it looks like Sisters are a popular seller and the only thing that got in the way of making money on plastic Sisters was GW's refusal to make them. This applies to a number of other models as well. For a Sisters of Silence character, GW has the sculptors and plastic casting expertise to make such a model look good and desirable. If it still fails to sell, they have rules writers that can help popularity along. But none of that matters if the model doesn't exist in the first place. As much as you can say without data it's prudent not to invest in the mold, it's just as easy to argue that without investment, you'll never see returns. Since GW has been making plastic characters for over a decade now, it's probably a safe assumption to say character clampacks have worked out for them if they keep investing in them. And at that point you have to ask, if they want to make Sisters of Silence successful, why shy away from that investment?


Do we need them to be a faction? I say no, they just need to be a unit choice for Custodes players. The game has too many factions as it is.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/03 06:53:07


Post by: Dudeface


Quasistellar wrote:
 kurhanik wrote:
Crossfire and Exposed are neat, but it kind of feels like they should be basic rules of the game, not some specialist rule for a single faction. Also not quite sure why exposed has a 12" limit on it, I'd imagine lighting up a heavy unit like a christmas tree would give the lascannon operator farther back, or a sharpshooter an easier shot. I mean, the game is lethal enough as it is so limitations on how this can be used is probably a good thing.

Still just odd to me why this isn't core rule level stuff, and comes with some sort of suppression mechanic as the target unit hunkers down to avoid needless casualties.


Maybe this will get implemented for all the BS4 armies?


I doubt it/hope not unless there's a fair way to make all units get an artificial +1 to hit, not just BS4 otherwise BS4 might as well not exist.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/03 12:05:39


Post by: Arbitrator


 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 The Phazer wrote:
Yeah, interesting, but it's odd to add such a mechanic to just a single faction really. It almost feels more Tau ish.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Tau and the Guard get similar rules. This definitely sounds how multiple squads of Guardsmen should work together.

Cadians have a Strat that's similar already, so it'd not be too wild if it happened.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/03 12:41:52


Post by: Tyel


I think the crossfire rules fit GSC because mechanically its meant to encourage surrounding and actually ambushing with your units with ranged weapons. As opposed to just effectively Deep Striking in a line across the table with mass acolytes and charging in. Whether it actually works however remains to be seen.

The Custodes stuff just makes me go crosseyed. I suspect once you play it a few times you might get sort of used to it but you don't need this many options. Its going to be hard for the Custodes player to keep in their head - never mind anyone else.

(FWIW I kind of liked the Necron rules as a concept - but it should be army wide not only applicable if you have a character baby sitting the regular units. Instead you have a clunky rule which is rarely ever up anyway.)


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/03 14:43:43


Post by: Valkyrie


 Daedalus81 wrote:
Seen elsewhere:

Ka’tah’s are wordy but pretty straightforward:

1) You pick 3 of them after deployment and order them 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.
2) In your first command phase, you activate one of the choices from your 1st. 1a or 1b.
3) In your next command phase, you can either pick the other option from your first or go to 2 and pick 2a or 2b. If you go to 2 you can never go back to 1.
4) In your next command phase you can pick the other 2 or go to 3 just like in the last step.

Once you’re at 3, you only have the two options left. You can run out early. There may be a strat to manipulate ka’tahs like doctrines but I’m doubtful.

The only modifier to this is that every shield host will have a preferred ka’tah. While that one is active, you don’t pick a or b, you get both once per game.


Why can't GW phrase rules like this? While there'll have to be some slight changes to ensure the rules flow correctly, I don't see why it has to be as complicated as previewed.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/03 16:38:24


Post by: the_scotsman


 Platuan4th wrote:
 kurhanik wrote:
Crossfire and Exposed are neat, but it kind of feels like they should be basic rules of the game


I said the exact same thing to my group the moment I saw them.


A xenos faction: Gets Anything

Imperial players: "B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-ut why dont we have this? I DEMAND SPACE MARINE CODEX 9th Ed 4.0 RIGHT NOW!"


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/03 16:46:04


Post by: Voss


 the_scotsman wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:
 kurhanik wrote:
Crossfire and Exposed are neat, but it kind of feels like they should be basic rules of the game


I said the exact same thing to my group the moment I saw them.


A xenos faction: Gets Anything

Imperial players: "B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-ut why dont we have this? I DEMAND SPACE MARINE CODEX 9th Ed 4.0 RIGHT NOW!"


Yep. That's certainly the issue, when someone suggests these are good additions to the basic shooting rules (because they actually add a measure of depth to maneuver and shooting, rather than bloat), they mean only for the Imperium.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/03 16:56:56


Post by: Dudeface


 the_scotsman wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:
 kurhanik wrote:
Crossfire and Exposed are neat, but it kind of feels like they should be basic rules of the game


I said the exact same thing to my group the moment I saw them.


A xenos faction: Gets Anything

Imperial players: "B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-ut why dont we have this? I DEMAND SPACE MARINE CODEX 9th Ed 4.0 RIGHT NOW!"


I mean that might be oft correct, but on this occasion it is actually a fun depth bringing mechanic that could be adapted for everyone. Imperial scum or otherwise.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/03 17:54:43


Post by: Geifer


 Togusa wrote:
 Geifer wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
Spoiler:
 Grimskul wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:


GOOD fething lord no are you kidding man, GW would have to make a new sculpt for sisters of silence!!!

AND THEY SHALL KNOW. ONE. SPRUEEEE!


It is really funny that GW has like an endless supply of primaris lieutenants sculpts in their closet or something but they can't be bothered with one official clampack HQ model for SoS.


It's economics. How many people would really buy such a model? Given I have NEVER seen SoS on the tabletop, outside of promotional pictures and stuff like that, I have a hard time believing anyone even uses these models in the Custodes book. I doubt that's going to change. SoS seems like the most useless thing when we have SoB already. IMO.


Aside from being women in power armor, there's no overlap between Sisters of Silence and Sisters of Battle. Sisters of Battle are a complete, functional army with all that entails, that lacks the one thing Sisters of Silence exist to provide: dedicated psychic defense. Sisters of Silence have a completely different function to a squad of Sisters of Battle. Lorewise, they're also as far apart as you can be.

Sisters of Silence came out as plastic models before Sisters of Battle received theirs, and primarily for Horus Heresy with 40k rules as a bonus. They, like Custodes at the time, were a single squad meant to be allied into an Imperial army. When GW finally got around to making Codex Adeptus Custodes, rather than Codex Talons of the Emperor, Custodes were elevated to a full army and instead of integrating Sisters of Silence as a specialist unit in that army as they should have, GW instead left them orphaned as one of those units that technically exist, but that simply don't get to appear in a mainline codex. Much like Inquisition, really. That means less exposure for Sisters of Silence and less reason to take them. Even less so after GW shifted their rules design away from merry souping to powerful mono-faction bonuses. Sisters of Silence have to be integrated into the Custodes codex, which, again, is where they belonged in the first place, if they are to stand any chance of being taken in their own army lest they break the weak kung fu GW is adding to the new codex.

And with being a full part of the army, finally, you have to ask the question whether they should have an HQ character to go with them. GW asked that question and found the answer to be yes. So apparently at least they think the idea has merit. As far as your comment about economics goes, it was long held to be true that Sisters of Battle didn't warrant translation to plastic, both by GW and a portion of the community. Now it looks like Sisters are a popular seller and the only thing that got in the way of making money on plastic Sisters was GW's refusal to make them. This applies to a number of other models as well. For a Sisters of Silence character, GW has the sculptors and plastic casting expertise to make such a model look good and desirable. If it still fails to sell, they have rules writers that can help popularity along. But none of that matters if the model doesn't exist in the first place. As much as you can say without data it's prudent not to invest in the mold, it's just as easy to argue that without investment, you'll never see returns. Since GW has been making plastic characters for over a decade now, it's probably a safe assumption to say character clampacks have worked out for them if they keep investing in them. And at that point you have to ask, if they want to make Sisters of Silence successful, why shy away from that investment?


Do we need them to be a faction? I say no, they just need to be a unit choice for Custodes players. The game has too many factions as it is.


I never said Sisters of Silence should be a faction of their own? Quite the opposite, actually.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/03 19:44:01


Post by: Platuan4th


 the_scotsman wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:
 kurhanik wrote:
Crossfire and Exposed are neat, but it kind of feels like they should be basic rules of the game


I said the exact same thing to my group the moment I saw them.


A xenos faction: Gets Anything

Imperial players: "B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-ut why dont we have this? I DEMAND SPACE MARINE CODEX 9th Ed 4.0 RIGHT NOW!"


Funny, since neither post mentioned Marines(or any other army for that matter). Maybe you shouldn't project your own bugbears on other people?


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/03 20:15:02


Post by: Hankovitch


Why would Space Marine players want bonuses for things like clever positioning or aggressive maneuvering? They already get better bonuses than that from standing still on their own front step.


GSC & Custodes Codex (Preorder up 08/01) @ 2021/12/03 20:56:14


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 the_scotsman wrote:
A xenos faction: Gets Anything

Imperial players: "B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-ut why dont we have this? I DEMAND SPACE MARINE CODEX 9th Ed 4.0 RIGHT NOW!"
That's not what's happening here. You know that.