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Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/05 11:08:09


Post by: insaniak


New teaser video posted by the Army Painter:






Looks an awful lot like they're launching their own version of Contrast.


Edit - new teaser pic on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheArmyPainter/photos/a.593881697363870/4372461992839136/







Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/05 11:24:52


Post by: lord_blackfang


New Contrast is always exciting but I hope it turns out better than Scele75's feeble attempt!


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/05 14:06:53


Post by: scarletsquig


Really excited for this.

Contrast is the staple painting method for me now (lets me paint the minis before I'm dead which is always nice).

AP version will be more affordable, looks like that red has good coverage unlike the weak Scale75 glazes, and having them in addition to GW's range will massively increase the colour variety.

Some of the GW contrast paints are better than others as well, it's weird how they made some really diluted, while others like cygor Brown are unusable without dilution with medium. So, perhaps there will be replacements for some of the duds in the GW line.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/05 14:49:20


Post by: stahly


Sweet, I'm waiting for a proper Contrast alternative for quite a while. Scale75 is just not vibrant enough from what I've seen.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/05 15:20:18


Post by: chaos0xomega


Eh, but Army Painters quality is so inconsistent and generally poor in my experience, it might as well not exist.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/05 15:32:23


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


I’m looking forward to these. Minimal effort is my painting style.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/05 16:30:04


Post by: Arbitrator


 lord_blackfang wrote:
New Contrast is always exciting but I hope it turns out better than Scele75's feeble attempt!

Out of genuine curiosity as someone who was eyeing a few up, what's wrong with S75's?


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/05 16:41:33


Post by: chaos0xomega


My understanding is that the S75 contrast (instant colors iirc?) have a low pigment saturation, meaning the colors when applied and dried look washed out unless you build it up over multiple coats. IMO its purely a matter of personal preference, 40k gamers generally want high saturation because they want their minis to be painted with loud bright colors that really pop, etc. Scale 75s target audience is more aimed towards hobby painters (rather than gamers) who tend to paint towards more realistic and more muted tones, etc. so lower pigment saturation is preferable to them - and the fact that you can build up the intensity of the color with repeat application offers a higher level of sensitivity/control to really hit the exact looks that they are going for. As a result of the lower saturation, the shading on them isn't as intense either (again, need multiple coats to get there). I have heard some complain about "staining" too (i.e. it doesn't dry evenly and leaves splotches on parts of the mini), but I haven't witnessed that myself.

Basically, I think the issue is "different strokes for different folks" rather than a specific product issue.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/05 16:50:30


Post by: Red Corsair


Scale75 instacolor are not bad, they are just different. They are much more subtle and I'd suggest viewing them as a different tool with similarities rather then a direct competitor. They are better for glazing IMO.

S75 normal paints are already extremely pigmented and matte, and their insta colors are meant to accompany those.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/05 16:51:25


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


S75 instacolor are not bad paints, but are bad for the application of trying to use them as a contrast replacement.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/05 16:58:53


Post by: Arbitrator


chaos0xomega wrote:
My understanding is that the S75 contrast (instant colors iirc?) have a low pigment saturation, meaning the colors when applied and dried look washed out unless you build it up over multiple coats. IMO its purely a matter of personal preference, 40k gamers generally want high saturation because they want their minis to be painted with loud bright colors that really pop, etc. Scale 75s target audience is more aimed towards hobby painters (rather than gamers) who tend to paint towards more realistic and more muted tones, etc. so lower pigment saturation is preferable to them - and the fact that you can build up the intensity of the color with repeat application offers a higher level of sensitivity/control to really hit the exact looks that they are going for. As a result of the lower saturation, the shading on them isn't as intense either (again, need multiple coats to get there). I have heard some complain about "staining" too (i.e. it doesn't dry evenly and leaves splotches on parts of the mini), but I haven't witnessed that myself.

Basically, I think the issue is "different strokes for different folks" rather than a specific product issue.

Good to know, thanks for the explanation. As somebody who's gripe with Contrast was how 'bubblegummy' they looked the InstaColours does seem far more up my alley.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/05 17:35:14


Post by: Monkeysloth


S75 Instant Colors are great for layering up, especially when diluted with their mix. Work well with contrast paints too.
 Red Corsair wrote:
Scale75 instacolor are not bad, they are just different. They are much more subtle and I'd suggest viewing them as a different tool with similarities rather then a direct competitor. They are better for glazing IMO.

S75 normal paints are already extremely pigmented and matte, and their insta colors are meant to accompany those.


Pretty much these. You can think of them as pre-made glazes that you can use in different ways. I tend to do a diluted base coat of an instant paint or contrast (using the instant paint medium), dry brush white (or other bright color) then out of the pot layer of instant paint (rarely contrast here as they're quite strong).

These were all done this way:


Spoiler:


Spoiler:


Spoiler:


Spoiler:


This is a mix of instant colors and contrast paint (diluted down with the instant paint thinner for a base coat).
Spoiler:


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/05 17:43:06


Post by: lord_blackfang


In the end you probably pay more "per unit of pigment" for Scale75 Instants than you do for Contrast as it's that watered down. Get Contrast and thin it if you want to layer.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/05 17:53:01


Post by: hotsauceman1


I will say.
For highly textured models, a zenithal prime and contrast paints are pretty good.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/07 20:44:40


Post by: ced1106


I've been brushing on colored primers, followed by washes, for tabletop. Think contrast paints will work? AP wash colors are limited, so I'm thinking of contrast paints for other colors I'm missing?

Too bad there's still no paint that gets rid of pesky mold lines!


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/07 22:52:33


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


 lord_blackfang wrote:
New Contrast is always exciting but I hope it turns out better than Scele75's feeble attempt!


I very much regret going all-in on that Kickstarter. Its not an unusable product and eventually I will use it up, but it isn't remotely as advertised, and is just some of the weirdest consistency paint I own instead of being Contrast adjacent.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/07 23:19:32


Post by: Monkeysloth


 ced1106 wrote:
I've been brushing on colored primers, followed by washes, for tabletop. Think contrast paints will work? AP wash colors are limited, so I'm thinking of contrast paints for other colors I'm missing?


Contrast can work very well over basecoats/primers.

the models below without the weapon are pre-painted O Scale figures for train layouts. I just did a quick dry brush of white then used contrast or instant paints and did some quick touchups for highlights on the skin. All the skin was contrast as instant paint really doesn't have anything that I like for that. All in all maybe10 min per figure just because I wanted to touch up the skin, probably be 3-5 if I didn't bother doing that.



this is how they came out of the box.





Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/08 01:32:58


Post by: hotsauceman1


 ced1106 wrote:
I've been brushing on colored primers, followed by washes, for tabletop. Think contrast paints will work? AP wash colors are limited, so I'm thinking of contrast paints for other colors I'm missing?

Too bad there's still no paint that gets rid of pesky mold lines!

YES!!!
use like a white(OR more preferably, an offwhite) and then use constrast. They work better on textured models.
IF you want really good, zenithal prime and then do it!!!


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/08 14:42:03


Post by: stahly





Product reveal video is up. 23 colours, look pretty close to their GW counterparts. If these are priced like regular The Army Painter paints, then they'll be less than half the price of Contrast paints!


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/08 16:33:39


Post by: hotsauceman1


Looks like some pretty good saturated colors to me.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/08 21:04:46


Post by: scarletsquig


Brilliant. I'm all over that mega set the second it's up for sale.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/08 21:35:43


Post by: lord_blackfang


Yea I'm in all for sure


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/08 22:05:56


Post by: stonehorse


It was only a matter of time before Army Painter did their version of Contrast paints.

Looking forward to seeing how these shape up, and more importantly just how big a price difference they have.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/09 04:12:53


Post by: Monkeysloth


I'm interested in that near white one on the right, second row. GW's is more of a cool blue gray and this looks to be a warm color.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/09 07:44:13


Post by: DaveC


Screen cap of the sets I’m surprised there aren’t more flesh tones I’m sure give them a try at some point


[Thumb - 2A27B851-3863-4594-9A84-759CF53A45EA.jpeg]


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/09 08:26:25


Post by: insaniak


The Hardened Leather or Dark Wood could easily double as flesh tones for darker skin, and they also have a Flesh Wash and their various brown Tones in their current range for more skin options.

If they're launching as a smaller range, it's probably preferable to get as many colour options in there as possible, particularly since that's where their current range of inks is lacking.



Definitely excited to try these out.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/09 08:53:06


Post by: BrianDavion


 stonehorse wrote:
It was only a matter of time before Army Painter did their version of Contrast paints.

Looking forward to seeing how these shape up, and more importantly just how big a price difference they have.


Yeah GW sort of stole a march on everyone with contrast, and contrast has become VERY popular in some circles so I expect this won't be the first "knock off" we see. I'd not be suprised to see Vallejo do it's own version of it too


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/09 09:06:00


Post by: NAVARRO


BrianDavion wrote:
 stonehorse wrote:
It was only a matter of time before Army Painter did their version of Contrast paints.

Looking forward to seeing how these shape up, and more importantly just how big a price difference they have.


Yeah GW sort of stole a march on everyone with contrast, and contrast has become VERY popular in some circles so I expect this won't be the first "knock off" we see. I'd not be suprised to see Vallejo do it's own version of it too


To be honest I would expect to see Army Painter coming up with contrast paints before GW did since Army Painter range started with the easy approach to painting of dipping the miniatures.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/09 09:12:08


Post by: lord_blackfang


BrianDavion wrote:
Yeah GW sort of stole a march on everyone with contrast, and contrast has become VERY popular in some circles so I expect this won't be the first "knock off" we see.

It's not, Scale75 already did theirs a year ago.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/09 09:36:50


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


BrianDavion wrote:
 stonehorse wrote:
It was only a matter of time before Army Painter did their version of Contrast paints.

Looking forward to seeing how these shape up, and more importantly just how big a price difference they have.


Yeah GW sort of stole a march on everyone with contrast, and contrast has become VERY popular in some circles so I expect this won't be the first "knock off" we see. I'd not be suprised to see Vallejo do it's own version of it too


GW basically just knocked off the idea of inks and refined them a bit so they were more usable out of the bottle. People had been using P3's and Vallejo's inks like contrasts for years prior.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/09 15:43:47


Post by: chaos0xomega


 NAVARRO wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 stonehorse wrote:
It was only a matter of time before Army Painter did their version of Contrast paints.

Looking forward to seeing how these shape up, and more importantly just how big a price difference they have.


Yeah GW sort of stole a march on everyone with contrast, and contrast has become VERY popular in some circles so I expect this won't be the first "knock off" we see. I'd not be suprised to see Vallejo do it's own version of it too


To be honest I would expect to see Army Painter coming up with contrast paints before GW did since Army Painter range started with the easy approach to painting of dipping the miniatures.


Army Painter has never been particularly innovative though, the whole dipping thing was a pre-existing process and product line, just not one that was catered towards hobbyists (it was wood stain/varnish or something like that that you would buy at home depot). All Army Painter did was slap new labeling and branding on it and upcharge the price 50%. None of their products to date have lead the market, mostly they've just been essentially rebrands/repackagings of other products from other manufacturers. Something like contrast paint would be seemingly outside their ability to innovate, but now that others have figured it out they no doubt worked with some chemists to duplicate it themselves.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/10 22:37:49


Post by: ced1106


Only took me two years but I finally looked up Contrast paints on Reaper Bones, and lowly linked Goobertown Hobbie's not-quite recipe for Contrast paints. Jump to about 6:30.

* 50% matte medium (a squirt or two)
* 50% acrylic ink
* A few drops of flow aid

I'm sure there are other YT videos and web pages with more concrete recipes. But those of you who have used Les' Wash recipe know that the ingredients are almost the same. Not surprising, since contrast paints behave similarly to washes. Flow aid is what sucks the wash into the recesses. Les' recipe for washes uses more water and thus is actually a little more work to make. (Maybe you can add water to contrast paint so you don't have to make a separate wash. Dunno.)

If you dislike DIY as much as I do, I only recommend making your own wash (and thus contrast paints) if you need a batch of it for a larger project, such as terrain or an army. No point making a few ounces when you only need a few drops for a cape. If you're a fantasy gamer with dungeon and wood terrain, try making your own black and brown washes and see what you think. OTOH, If you're used to mixing with mediums, I figure you could just mix up whatever contrast paint you need right in a bottlecap, instead of bothering with mixing cups.

Also, from the Beast of War thread on contrast, it doesn't look like the GW contrast paints overcome some problems painters have with different paint colors (eg. yellow notorious for poor coverage). But if AP can release a paint line where you DON'T have to find the idiosyncrasies of each paint color, then I think it's well worth picking up a set. (IIRC, GW has one-coat conventional hobby paint for difficult colors, like red, in their Base paint line.)

Les' Washes : https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/261541.page




3:40 This guy fiddles with a similar medium. Says five drops of matte medium and one flow aid is too much. Tries 1-2 drops of ink. Also adds water (which is what Les Bursley's wash recipe would call for).




1:01 Different formula. 3-4 parts glazing medium : 1 part matte medium : ink




Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/11 16:17:59


Post by: Ghaz


Army Painter has posted a new Speedpaint video:




Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/11 16:28:44


Post by: NAVARRO


See thats a simple, short and informative video to make. I appreciate that!

Paint tones seem nice too, I think they have a winner depending on price tag.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/11 16:34:08


Post by: lord_blackfang


A bit long winded way to say it's cheaper Contrast. They didn't need to pretend it's a revolutionary concept.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/11 17:35:20


Post by: chaos0xomega


The problem with "make your own contrast" is that you still have the non-contrast medium thats native to the paint that you're using to mix the wash with impacting how it flows and settles ont he model, etc. Actual contrast paint doesn't have this problem, because the only medium in it *is* the contrast medium which is mixed directly with the pigment to give it color.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/11 17:57:48


Post by: kodos


People have used the Acrylic Inks that way long before Washes were a thing
Even the old GW Inks were advertised in WD painting articles to go directly on the primer for speed painting (remember old Chestnut Ink for leather effect with 1 layer and the Dark Blue one for making Eldar), as well as the Washes that came later (and were removed again)

GW itself had 2 similar ranges suitable for that style of painting replaced by different products

Army Painter Washes, Vallejo Inks/Washes, Scale75 or standard Acrylic Inks all can be used in similar ways or as base to make a Contrast like base (to avoid the problem of having the wrong medium inside like with standard acrylics) although Contrast works a little bit different (and better on some colours, but not all)

Just a matter of time until Army Painter comes up with a modified version of their Washes to be more like Contrast


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/11 20:54:23


Post by: Quasistellar


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I will say.
For highly textured models, a zenithal prime and contrast paints are pretty good.


They work amazingly well on Seraphon models in particular (lots of scales). I knocked out a Carnosaur in one evening with them, and it looks fantastic.

If these are any good, I might see if there's any colors I'd like to fill gaps in the Contrast range.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/11 22:38:26


Post by: ced1106


 kodos wrote:
People have used the Acrylic Inks that way long before Washes were a thing


fwiw, Goobertown Hobbies also has this acrylic inks airbrush on zenithal priming video. I'm still looking for something more brush-on with generic fantasy models, though.

Tangibleday has an acrylic inks article, although I'm still looking for something more "one coat" for us lazy painters...
https://tangibleday.com/15-best-inks-for-painting-miniatures-and-models/

(I do use brushtip pens out of laziness for this-and-that, so technically I'm using inks...)




Back to contrast. Two years ago, draadhaai on Reddit came up with these results for DIY, based on Goober's constrast mix.

Sounds like contrast paints are little more than bottles of hype that can be replaced by 9-10 drops of matte medium, 1 drop of flow aid, and 10 drops of ink. You can even make a wash from this mixture by wetting down your miniature and painting the recesses.

https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/comments/co3l41/diy_contrastlike_paints_using_acrylic_inks/

Spoiler:


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/12 06:13:19


Post by: kodos


Contrast is different and reverse engineering not that easy, and it makes some speed painting techniques easier
the big hype about this is all new and was not there before, was just that, a hype
Some of the colours work better but not all and not for all kind of models

Friend of mine painted all his Eldar with White Primer and Blue Ink 20 years ago, another did his Orcs with Green+Purple Ink 10 years ago (1 layer green ink for Grots, 2 layers Green for Boys, Purple+Green for Nobz/Heroes)
I used the Army Painter Washes for small scale models, (15mm Infantry/Tanks or 1/1200 Ships etc.)

Contrast did not make anything possible that was not doable before, most people just learned miniature painting with GW and there everything but green bases is already highly innovative


I guess I will get some of the AP Colours just to compare them to what I already have as I have some historical armies planned and not happy with the available blues/reds for uniform colours


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/12 08:17:42


Post by: lord_blackfang


Yes yes all this talk of making contrast by the gallon from painters' ink is lovely but my art shop doesn't have magos purple ink, I checked. A bottle of ink is also no cheaper than a bottle of contrast, and sure, you can make a gallon of contrast from it, but I'm not going to paint my car with it so why.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/12 08:50:53


Post by: ced1106


Goober's constrast mix doesn't seem to be any more difficult than making your own thinner fluid ("gunk"). I'm going to start out with 9 drops of matte medium and 1 drop of flow aid stored in an eye dropper. Then, when I need to make some contrast paint or wash, I'll take a few drops of Goober fluid (: and add an equal number of acrylic ink, diluting with water for a wash. *None* of those components are necessary to purchase if you're already making Les Bursley's wash, which I certainly did (black and brown) when painting several sprues worth of Archon terrain. My FLGS, though, is several cities away, so DIY is more convenient than making yet another trip for a color of wash I find I need.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/12 10:25:14


Post by: stahly


I received three samples from The Army Painter today: Gravelord Grey, Dark Wood, and Cloudburst Blue.

The three paints I tried are definitely on par with Contrast paints. Vibrant colours, the medium has a great flow, and they dry as smoothly as Contrast paints like Blood Angels Red or Basilicanum Grey, not as patchy as paints like Militarum Green.

Gravelord Grey is about as dark as Black Templar, but without the weird greenish hint that Black Templar has. Dark Wood is quite similar to Cygor Brown, but a tiny nuance lighter so the highlights are more nuanced when applied to a model, unlike Cygor Brown, which is quite flat. Cloudburst Blue is similar to Leviadon Blue, again, maybe a tiny nuance lighter so there is again slightly more "contrast" between light and dark when applied on a model.

I noticed on the label, that these are recommended to go over their white primer, so I guess they won't release a Grey Seer / Wraithbone primer alternative.

So early verdict: If you like Contrast paints, you'll love these too, if only for the slightly different hues. I don't know about the price point yet, but if they keep them at the price of their washes (18 ml dropper bottles at 3 Euro), then these are a sure hit.

Can't wait until next year to try the full range.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/12 10:50:48


Post by: kodos


AP already has a Grey and Bone coloured Primer, no real need to release new ones


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/17 08:41:33


Post by: Shadow Walker


There are like a 3 videos on YT already using AP new notcontrast, and I am really happy with what I see so far. These paints seem a lot more easier to control than contrast ones. Maybe finally there is a salvation for horrible painters like me who do not enjoy that part of the hobby? I will check more videos, and if they continue to impress me I will get the mega set to have as much new colors as possible.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/17 08:48:33


Post by: jullevi


Speed paint has me intrigued but being cheaper and offering different hues isn't enough to convince me yet. I need to try them first hand to but there is a good chance that I won't like using them because I prefer to use Contrast paints straight from pot as often as possible.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/17 09:31:26


Post by: lord_blackfang


Yeah dropper bottles are a pain for washes, but if it's gonna be half cheaper...


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/17 09:39:54


Post by: Shadow Walker


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Yeah dropper bottles are a pain for washes, but if it's gonna be half cheaper...
Yeah, half the price (alongside being better to control etc.) is a very good motivator.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/17 10:00:26


Post by: insaniak


I use an old medicine cup for the current Army Painter washes. Any leftovers can just be poured back into the bottle.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/17 15:51:29


Post by: Psychopomp


 insaniak wrote:
I use an old medicine cup for the current Army Painter washes. Any leftovers can just be poured back into the bottle.


I use water bottle caps for the same purpose and as my mixing palettes. Easy to lay hands on, not too large, cheap, and technically(?) recycling something that gets thrown out anyway - albeit just for one more use.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/19 08:54:48


Post by: lord_blackfang


The small set (10 bottles + monster brush) has appeared on distribution lists at 40€ RRP.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/19 17:16:05


Post by: ced1106


 Shadow Walker wrote:
Maybe finally there is a salvation for horrible painters like me who do not enjoy that part of the hobby?


I actually hate painting, and use colored primers and washes. I brush-on colored airbrush primer, apply a wash, then touch-up when necessary. The colored primer acts as both primer and basecoat, and removes the step of priming, particularly useful if you're only painting a few mini's or painting at night. The washes can be pre-made, or DIY if you need a lot of one color, such as for terrain. Search on "Les Bursley wash". The washes, of course, can also be used as you wish during conventional painting, and don't require the special conditions that contrast paints require. (OTOH, If the pre-made contrast uses Gooberhobbie's medium (matte medium, flow aid, acrylic ink), you can add a few drops of water to make it into a wash, and use it any way you would a wash.)

The figure on the left was primed in red then washed in red. The figure on the right was painted conventionally (started as purple, then repainted blue). The red figure took less time to complete (still had to paint the face conventionally with paints), since I didn't have to spend additional time painting the dress. These figures are from PEG's "The Goon" miniatures, based on the comic.

https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/18/18478.phtml

Spoiler:







Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/20 20:40:26


Post by: Chillreaper


I've been watching the Watch It Paint It videos on YouTube where they've put the three demo colours through their paces.

Interesting to see what happens when you slap them over a metallic base and zenithal base, because that's the kind of thing that I'd try.

Turns out that you seem to get some really nice effects, so next year looks like I'm going to be making my first paint purchases for seems like a very long time.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/20 23:15:58


Post by: Ghaz


 Chillreaper wrote:
I've been watching the Watch It Paint It videos on YouTube where they've put the three demo colours through their paces.

Interesting to see what happens when you slap them over a metallic base and zenithal base, because that's the kind of thing that I'd try.

Turns out that you seem to get some really nice effects, so next year looks like I'm going to be making my first paint purchases for seems like a very long time.

You can get similar results over metallic and zenithal bases using Contrast paints.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/21 00:12:05


Post by: ced1106


Yep. You can also use hobby inks over metallics, although I dunno if artist acrylic inks would work. For advanced tabletop, I've even drybrushed metallic craft paints for good effect!

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/420128.page


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/21 01:42:33


Post by: axotl


Contrast medium is the secret sauce. It does not glob up when drying - it's the best leveling medium I've ever worked with and I obsessively test mediums. It's good gak for a matte/satin finish. Still, if you want ultra high contrast you need to use a thin gloss like medium like Future - the lack of matting agent makes the pigment truly settle into recesses like no other.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/21 04:45:29


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Future as in Future Floor Wax? That is a name I have not heard in a long time. Do they even sell it still?

Also, do you mean you add Future Floor Wax to washes or contrast paints?


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/21 07:21:44


Post by: Astmeister


If anyone wants to see contrast on metallic coats, i have some pictures.

All done using Army painter metal spray with
Black templar
Blood angels red
Akhelian green the stormcast left of the maleceptor tyranid

[Thumb - IMG-20211010-WA0005.jpg]
[Thumb - IMG-20211010-WA0006.jpg]
[Thumb - 20210109_220006.jpg]


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/22 13:46:00


Post by: kodos


This is now interesting, you get different effects with using them directly on primer or put on gloss varnish first




Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/22 16:19:01


Post by: Kalamadea


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Future as in Future Floor Wax? That is a name I have not heard in a long time. Do they even sell it still?

Also, do you mean you add Future Floor Wax to washes or contrast paints?


I still use Future a lot for varnishing and decals and as a paint flow improver. I actually just had to pick up a new bottle for the first time in years. It changed to "Pledge with Future Shine" for a while, now the current version is "Pledge Revive It floor gloss". Different name and label, same bottle, same product.

I've never used it with Contrast, but 1:4 Future:distilled water mix has been my go-to paint thinning medium for many years for both paint and for acrylic washes. I can see using Contrast OVER a layer of Future as you're basically just going Contrast over a gloss varnish at that point, should work out like in the Speedpaint video just above where it pulls away more from the highlights/edges.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/29 15:44:40


Post by: Ghaz


We should be seeing this soon. ACD Distribution has the Speedpaint Starter Set listed with a retail price of $45 USD and available for pre-order.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/29 16:06:08


Post by: warboss


Thanks. I'm curious how this will fair on less organic models with larger flat or gently curved surfaces.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/29 16:12:07


Post by: Shadow Walker


 warboss wrote:
Thanks. I'm curious how this will fair on less organic models with larger flat or gently curved surfaces.

That I would like to see too. Like on some Rhinos etc.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/29 16:36:01


Post by: Ghaz


 Shadow Walker wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYWQvuX4vmw

It says "Video unavailable. This video has been removed by the uploader."


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/29 16:39:48


Post by: Shadow Walker


 Ghaz wrote:
 Shadow Walker wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYWQvuX4vmw

It says "Video unavailable. This video has been removed by the uploader."

Weird, looks like they removed it. Here is another https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmpUQAnWFwA


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/29 16:54:08


Post by: warboss


 Shadow Walker wrote:
 warboss wrote:
Thanks. I'm curious how this will fair on less organic models with larger flat or gently curved surfaces.

That I would like to see too. Like on some Rhinos etc.


Definitely that too but I wasn't even thinking that ambitiously and was referring to thing from terminator/primaris to ogryn sized.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/29 20:20:44


Post by: insaniak


 Shadow Walker wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 Shadow Walker wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYWQvuX4vmw

It says "Video unavailable. This video has been removed by the uploader."

Weird, looks like they removed it. Here is another https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmpUQAnWFwA

Yeah, they said on FB that there was an error in the original video so they deleted it and uploaded a new version.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/29 21:05:44


Post by: angel of death 007


 Ghaz wrote:
We should be seeing this soon. ACD Distribution has the Speedpaint Starter Set listed with a retail price of $45 USD and available for pre-order.


According to the preorders I saw the starter set will be released in February 2022


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/29 23:34:24


Post by: Ghaz


angel of death 007 wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
We should be seeing this soon. ACD Distribution has the Speedpaint Starter Set listed with a retail price of $45 USD and available for pre-order.


According to the preorders I saw the starter set will be released in February 2022

My FLGS is already taking pre-orders, so take that as you wish...


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/10/30 01:12:25


Post by: angel of death 007


 Ghaz wrote:
angel of death 007 wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
We should be seeing this soon. ACD Distribution has the Speedpaint Starter Set listed with a retail price of $45 USD and available for pre-order.


According to the preorders I saw the starter set will be released in February 2022

My FLGS is already taking pre-orders, so take that as you wish...


Several places are now but the word of release is February 2022. Unless they changed something. They still haven't put the full set up for preorder and I could easily see it being February especially with how far off release dates have been recently from every gaming company.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/12/03 12:31:11


Post by: Shadow Walker


One more review and comparison with GW Contrasts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHTeFwcKE9A


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/12/12 08:18:36


Post by: privateer4hire


My missus saw the video from AP and wanted to surprise me with an early Christmas present.

Unfortunately, Quickshade and Speedpaint sound similar enough that I would have mixed them up too.

Oh well. I am out of nuln and agrax is nearly gone as well so these will still be useful.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/12/12 12:21:07


Post by: VBS


From a few videos, they seem to be a heavier version of quickshades, which is exactly what I need.
Been painting full quickshades for a while though they tend to need several layers as they are very diluted.
gw contrast and scale75 instant colors aint good enough, but AP might have hit the sweet spot.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/12/19 12:52:03


Post by: kodos












Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/12/20 21:56:41


Post by: insaniak


These are looking really good - like a perfect sweet spot between AP's current 'Tones' and Contrast (which I'm finding a little too heavy for most stuff).


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/12/20 23:31:51


Post by: Gallahad


I do find myself adding a lot of medium to most contrast paints. These do look very promising.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/12/21 00:17:30


Post by: Monkeysloth


I add a lot of mediums too but I find that to be a positive as it's just the painter adjusting to tool for the look they want. Being heavy means that's easier to do.

That being said I am interested in these as well. Both Contrast and Insta paints are how I do 80% of my painting now days (everything but skin which I paint traditionally) and I'm sure I'll find these a great complement to those paints.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/12/21 10:17:02


Post by: Pacific


I needed to get some Contrast paints to do the Game of Thrones ASOIAF miniatures.. might take a look at some reviews for these, they look like they come out at about £3 a pot if you buy at discount for the starter, which is very reasonable.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2021/12/24 13:58:19


Post by: Shadow Walker


Painting a miniature using only speed paints https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_Bu28rApgU


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/16 09:43:50


Post by: Shadow Walker


Speedpaint Starter set
10 paints
brush
$45
release date FEB/19/2022
Speedpaints Megaset
24 paints (includes medium)
brush
$99
release date MARCH/26/2022


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/17 20:28:28


Post by: Ghaz


A fairly unbiased review of the new Speed Paints from Squidmar:




Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/17 20:48:51


Post by: NAVARRO


Great review actually thanks for posting.

It gives me an overall idea of what to expect.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/18 10:37:01


Post by: stahly


Here is the working link: https://taleofpainters.com/2022/01/first-look-speedpaint-by-the-army-painter-better-cheaper-than-contrast/



An issue I haven't seen in any other review is that Speedpaints can reactivate when you don't seal them, bleeding through the paint layers on top.

Also, here is a comparison between all Speedpaints and Contrast colours:



Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/18 12:24:33


Post by: BigOscar


 Ghaz wrote:
A fairly unbiased review of the new Speed Paints from Squidmar:




I like squidmar but not convinced that's a particularly fair review, as he's kind of ignored the intended purpose and audience for speed paint and only looked at it from his perspective.

Sure, I guess its interesting to see how useful they are for a top quality painter, using an airbrush, but that really isn't what they are aiming to be. He did a little bit on using them to quickly paint with just a brush, but that really has to be the main focus for a review of them imo.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/18 12:38:33


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


BigOscar wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
A fairly unbiased review of the new Speed Paints from Squidmar:




I like squidmar but not convinced that's a particularly fair review, as he's kind of ignored the intended purpose and audience for speed paint and only looked at it from his perspective.

Sure, I guess its interesting to see how useful they are for a top quality painter, using an airbrush, but that really isn't what they are aiming to be. He did a little bit on using them to quickly paint with just a brush, but that really has to be the main focus for a review of them imo.


I disagree, I think he gave them a decent go. He didn't spend a lot of time talking about airbrushing them, and the conclusion was basically "yep, they airbrush fine", which is a reasonable thing to review because a lot of people these days like airbrushing with contrast paints or inks.

Most of the time he spent talking about how they were to paint with a regular brush vs contrast which will be the reference point for most people. The gist seemed to be that they were more runny, pooled in the cracks more and were harder to control than contrast paints. Kind of like they're a thinned down ink, whereas contrast paints have more body.

Maybe you didn't like his approach to the review, but I found it really useful to get an idea of what to expect from them given I already have some experience with GW contrast paints.

From the sounds of things I'm not going to like them as much as GW contrasts... which would be unfortunate since they're sooo much cheaper and come in dropper bottles. I'll probably grab a couple of pots to try, maybe not a whole set.




Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/18 12:49:27


Post by: NAVARRO


Yep its a very useful review and he covered all that I wanted to hear about them. Not a fair review? Well you and me have different opinions on whats a fair review then since he tried to cover most painting angles.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/18 12:57:08


Post by: Shadow Walker


AllSeeingSkink wrote:
and were harder to control than contrast paints.

Harder to control? All videos I saw gave me the opposite impression.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/18 13:26:26


Post by: Ian Sturrock


They look great apart from the bleeding aspect. I almost always use Contrast primarily to save one step in the painting process, but if I have to add matt varnish after Speedpaint, that just adds the extra step back in, as well as meaning I have to worry about ventilation, humidity, etc.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/18 13:46:24


Post by: BigOscar


AllSeeingSkink wrote:
BigOscar wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
A fairly unbiased review of the new Speed Paints from Squidmar:




I like squidmar but not convinced that's a particularly fair review, as he's kind of ignored the intended purpose and audience for speed paint and only looked at it from his perspective.

Sure, I guess its interesting to see how useful they are for a top quality painter, using an airbrush, but that really isn't what they are aiming to be. He did a little bit on using them to quickly paint with just a brush, but that really has to be the main focus for a review of them imo.


I disagree, I think he gave them a decent go. He didn't spend a lot of time talking about airbrushing them, and the conclusion was basically "yep, they airbrush fine", which is a reasonable thing to review because a lot of people these days like airbrushing with contrast paints or inks.

Most of the time he spent talking about how they were to paint with a regular brush vs contrast which will be the reference point for most people. The gist seemed to be that they were more runny, pooled in the cracks more and were harder to control than contrast paints. Kind of like they're a thinned down ink, whereas contrast paints have more body.

Maybe you didn't like his approach to the review, but I found it really useful to get an idea of what to expect from them given I already have some experience with GW contrast paints.

From the sounds of things I'm not going to like them as much as GW contrasts... which would be unfortunate since they're sooo much cheaper and come in dropper bottles. I'll probably grab a couple of pots to try, maybe not a whole set.



Guess it comes down to what you want them for, whether it's as a contrast paint cheap alternative, to be used exactly how you currently use contrast paint, or to view it as what it's selling itself as, a speed paint deigned to get armies painted quickly to an acceptable level.

For me, a paint labelled speed paint, the main focus should be on how well it speed paints. That review didn't really address that fir me, I found ourt a lot more from the first minute of the goobertown review of that front. It looks like it actually slaps on pretty well, offering decent coverage and depth of colour when used that way. It looks like i could slap a ton of that turquoise over my night haunt army and gave a solid starting point to paint them very quickly.

Obviously there is value in knowing whether it'll be useful for advanced painters who want to use it for specific, non speed related techniques, but in my opinion at least, I want to know if it does the job it sets out to do first and foremost


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/18 22:17:49


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 Shadow Walker wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
and were harder to control than contrast paints.

Harder to control? All videos I saw gave me the opposite impression.


That's literally what Squidmar said. I haven't watched a lot of reviews so maybe other folk think differently.

I did flick through Goobertown's review, which on the surface looks like a more comprehensive review and he said they were on par with contrast paints. But I noticed Goob only tested them on highly detailed models where slopping them on without trying to control them works well.

Dana Howl gave a review that I haven't watched through, that's not a channel I normally watch but I flicked through the results where they tried to paint a space marine in contrasts vs speed paints and to be honest both looked terrible




Automatically Appended Next Post:
BigOscar wrote:
Guess it comes down to what you want them for, whether it's as a contrast paint cheap alternative, to be used exactly how you currently use contrast paint, or to view it as what it's selling itself as, a speed paint deigned to get armies painted quickly to an acceptable level.

For me, a paint labelled speed paint, the main focus should be on how well it speed paints. That review didn't really address that fir me, I found ourt a lot more from the first minute of the goobertown review of that front. It looks like it actually slaps on pretty well, offering decent coverage and depth of colour when used that way. It looks like i could slap a ton of that turquoise over my night haunt army and gave a solid starting point to paint them very quickly.

Obviously there is value in knowing whether it'll be useful for advanced painters who want to use it for specific, non speed related techniques, but in my opinion at least, I want to know if it does the job it sets out to do first and foremost


I like both Goober and Squidmar, but in this case I think Goober's might be a bit misleading because he only painted models that have a very high density of detail, the sort of models where you could paint them with with a regular old ink straight out of the bottle and get pretty good results.

I'd be cautious extrapolating Goober's results to a Nighthaunt army, as many (most?) Nighthaunts models have much more flowing detail and more open curving surfaces which will be more prone to tide marks, staining and pooling in undesirable places.



Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/18 22:31:42


Post by: Arbitrator


BigOscar wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
A fairly unbiased review of the new Speed Paints from Squidmar:




I like squidmar but not convinced that's a particularly fair review, as he's kind of ignored the intended purpose and audience for speed paint and only looked at it from his perspective.

Sure, I guess its interesting to see how useful they are for a top quality painter, using an airbrush, but that really isn't what they are aiming to be. He did a little bit on using them to quickly paint with just a brush, but that really has to be the main focus for a review of them imo.

He recently had a video where he gushed over Contrast going through an airbrush. Might be he doesn't want to step on his own toes as it were.

It also found it bizarre he said Contrast is more matte than SpeedPaints when every other Youtuber and image I've seen shows the opposite.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/18 22:36:40


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 Arbitrator wrote:
BigOscar wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
A fairly unbiased review of the new Speed Paints from Squidmar:




I like squidmar but not convinced that's a particularly fair review, as he's kind of ignored the intended purpose and audience for speed paint and only looked at it from his perspective.

Sure, I guess its interesting to see how useful they are for a top quality painter, using an airbrush, but that really isn't what they are aiming to be. He did a little bit on using them to quickly paint with just a brush, but that really has to be the main focus for a review of them imo.

He recently had a video where he gushed over Contrast for ten+ minutes. Might be he doesn't want to step on his own toes as it were.



I don't see why? I don't think he's getting paid by GW, so if he thought contrasts were great and speed paints were just as good I don't see how it'd be stepping on his own toes to say "hey guys, you know how much a love contrast paints, these are just as good as contrasts and a fraction of the price!"

Contrast paints have found a home amongst many higher end painters, though not used in the typical "slop it on" painting style for which they might have been originally intended.



Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/18 22:38:47


Post by: insaniak


Wasn't the bleeding also something some painters initially complained about with Contrast as well? Or am I misremembering?


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/18 22:46:20


Post by: Aeneades


 insaniak wrote:
Wasn't the bleeding also something some painters initially complained about with Contrast as well? Or am I misremembering?


I have never had any issue with it. I frequently paint over contrast. Most but not all of speed paints seem to have this issue but it’s not a massive problem as varnishing works.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/18 22:52:54


Post by: insaniak


I haven't had a problem with it, either. I just vaguely recall it being brought up when Contrast was released.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/18 23:20:42


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


I don't recall bleeding being a problem, occasionally I've had the issue that paint rubs off the edges very easily.

Aeneades wrote:
 insaniak wrote:
Wasn't the bleeding also something some painters initially complained about with Contrast as well? Or am I misremembering?


I have never had any issue with it. I frequently paint over contrast. Most but not all of speed paints seem to have this issue but it’s not a massive problem as varnishing works.


It kind of defies the point of "speed paints" if you have to keep revarnishing the model.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/19 03:34:16


Post by: Irbis


Funniest thing in the Squid review was the mention on the start that some people love AP and bash GW without even using either once. Pretty much on point, it seems these days people preformulate opinion and even expert can't tell them they are wrong.

Not a fan of Goober review. If either video sounded bribed, it's him, all the oohs and aahs over AP when you can easily see blatant ugly dry marks in places where he didn't bother to control the paint and let it pool. Maybe the end result looks better if you carefully spread it with brush, but he didn't even try, and his results comment was really divorced from what he shown on screen. Also, bottle labels really not matching end result is unacceptable, slight deviation is fine but even rosy G review made a point how big fail the label on sand AP was. Even names are bad, malignant "green" is more yellow than half the actual AP yellows

Sigh, I really want to like AP because dropper and price are a big plus, but it really looks like it's only good at painting extremely textured surfaces you will only touch once. Still surprised no one managed to even come close to contrast a few years down the line, looks like 'just a heavy wash' sour grape comments claimed was really more than that, eh?


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/19 06:53:09


Post by: hotsauceman1


I really dont get the goobertown love.
I saw him airbrush the speedpain and i was floored by how he was handing it, just hovering over one area and letting it pool.

Im going to get the mega set because I have been airbrushing contrast and using it over a zenithal primse and it works great, I love it.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/19 07:01:39


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I really dont get the goobertown love.
I saw him airbrush the speedpain and i was floored by how he was handing it, just hovering over one area and letting it pool.


That was the point, he wasn't trying to use it to tint the model, he was using it as a technique to apply it rapidly and still have it behave like it was applied by hairy brush.

I used to use washes in this way on my tyranids, just load up the wash in the airbrush and blast the model until it was covered with the same amount of wet wash as if I'd applied it with a hairy brush, let me wash a whole swarm in just a few minutes. It certainly wasn't a technique aimed getting a good quality paint job, it's a technique aimed at getting an army done super fast.



Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/19 08:48:32


Post by: stahly




I have tried to paint a more nuanced picture in my review: https://taleofpainters.com/2022/01/first-look-speedpaint-by-the-army-painter-better-cheaper-than-contrast/

I also find that Speedpaints are a little thinner and a little more difficult to control, but they also dry a little smoother with less pooling. The Squidmar review is a bit one-sided and very much focused on his personal painting style, which doesn't really correspond to the idea of Speedpaint/Contrast.



Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/19 10:46:34


Post by: lord_blackfang


 stahly wrote:

I have tried to paint a more nuanced picture in my review: https://taleofpainters.com/2022/01/first-look-speedpaint-by-the-army-painter-better-cheaper-than-contrast/

I also find that Speedpaints are a little thinner and a little more difficult to control, but they also dry a little smoother with less pooling. The Squidmar review is a bit one-sided and very much focused on his personal painting style, which doesn't really correspond to the idea of Speedpaint/Contrast.


Thanks, this is good stuff. Reactivation is gonna piss me off, I can tell that now. But the finish is nice even on a Space Marine.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/19 10:51:38


Post by: Pacific


Well, I guess the point is, for a couple of quid for a pot just buy one and try for yourself on a couple of minis?


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/19 11:06:28


Post by: deano2099


AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Contrast paints have found a home amongst many higher end painters, though not used in the typical "slop it on" painting style for which they might have been originally intended.


I really love this Sorastro video: uses Contrast in the way it was intended: just painting it on the model, but blends a few different colours on the model to get some amazing results with just a few highlights.



I think the biggest problem with the marketing for Contrast is that it's rubbish for things with large flat surfaces like, well, Space Marines. GW made a product that sucks for painting their poster boys.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/19 13:03:29


Post by: Irbis


AllSeeingSkink wrote:
It certainly wasn't a technique aimed getting a good quality paint job, it's a technique aimed at getting an army done super fast.

But it fails at both. It looks like utter garbage and I bet it wasn't much faster than the SM picture ToP did, with paint brushed on while minding to not pool it excessively (which is sidenote much better praise of AP than any of the videos linked so far). At that point you might just chuck minis into bucket of wood stainer, it will be just as "quick" and certainly much easier and cheaper.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/19 13:24:14


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


When I use contrast I just use it sparingly for some bigger area that's all gonna be one colour, like leather shoes or a coat or a tall furry hat.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/19 14:47:36


Post by: Tannhauser42


Well, I'm building an Ultramarines army right now, so I guess I'll find out soon enough for myself if the Contrast paints I bought will do the job well or if I'll need to check out this new SpeedPaint.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/19 15:20:11


Post by: Ghaz


 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Well, I'm building an Ultramarines army right now, so I guess I'll find out soon enough for myself if the Contrast paints I bought will do the job well or if I'll need to check out this new SpeedPaint.

Check out some of Juan Hidalgo's 'Eavy Contrast tutorials:




Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/19 15:53:03


Post by: kodos


so overall the complains are similar to Contrust (need highly textured model to work well), while the are better on flat surfaces with less pooling
so painting a Rhino or similar vehicle should work much better with the Speed Paints than with contrast

and going with a Metal Base Coat will give you also better results

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
It kind of defies the point of "speed paints" if you have to keep revarnishing the model.

this really depends on your style of painting and what you think about "speed"

not a big problem if there is just one coat of paint on each part and you carefully ably the paint, and if you are using them as base for advanced techniques, using a varnish is not a big extra step if you can save time on the base coat
same as oil washes are great but need a varnish between steps depending on what your are aiming for

and going by some reviews, doing a varnish before you add speed paints on some parts of the model will give you a different effect so using a varnish between steps could be worth it anyway


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/19 16:28:32


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Can you not just spray on the Matt varnish after the whole mini is done?


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/19 16:56:52


Post by: NAVARRO


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Can you not just spray on the Matt varnish after the whole mini is done?


I think he was refering to use varnish as a tool so that the ink flows more into the recesses and doesn't pool as much.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/19 17:04:00


Post by: kodos


referring to this video:



this allows for different effects, as prime, speed paint some parts, varnish, speed paint the rest (or all parts again)



Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/19 18:26:35


Post by: hotsauceman1


I find the complaint of People reviewing or not using them as intended....... interesting.
Just because it's marketed a certain way doesn't mean it can't be used for others. I love shooting contrast through to make my shadows.
Very interesting that people don't like it that way


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/21 11:57:27


Post by: Azazelx


 stahly wrote:

I have tried to paint a more nuanced picture in my review: https://taleofpainters.com/2022/01/first-look-speedpaint-by-the-army-painter-better-cheaper-than-contrast/
I also find that Speedpaints are a little thinner and a little more difficult to control, but they also dry a little smoother with less pooling. The Squidmar review is a bit one-sided and very much focused on his personal painting style, which doesn't really correspond to the idea of Speedpaint/Contrast.


Awesome - thank you for the review. I was set to buy the mega set, but that reactivation is a deal-breaker for the way I paint. Haven't seen it mentioned before in the YT reviews (though I haven't yet watched the newer youtube reviews mentioned here).
You saved me a good chunk of money.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/25 15:36:54


Post by: Ghaz


A direct comparison between Speed Paints and Contrast from Pete the Wargamer:




Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/29 10:20:03


Post by: Shadow Walker


Oathmark Revenant hero painted mostly with Army Painter Speedpaints

[Thumb - 272830668_4845910572170300_7124569888253544332_n.jpg]
[Thumb - 272872466_4845910588836965_4489590342443583333_n.jpg]


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/29 13:06:10


Post by: Irbis


First good comparison (and test of practical use/drybrushing/zenithal/highlighting) of SP IMO. Makes them look good too, unlike gak blotches and muddy pools in other videos:



Note he didn't heard of reactivation/bleeding yet ran into the very issue doing tests...


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/01/29 13:12:34


Post by: Orlanth


I watched the Pate the Wargamer compare video a few days back, it was fair and comprehensive.
It also told me many things.

I will be getting Speed Paint ASAP, I was going to anyway, but I have also topped up my Contrast paint supply. Currently Contrast is used by me as a layer paint, and I only use it 'raw' in certain circumstances, to me the big question will be what is I use Speed Paint as another form of layer paint, but for difficult applications and combo them together with Contrast and other paint lines.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/01 10:32:22


Post by: Shadow Walker


Another video showing painting with Speedpaints


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/01 10:58:26


Post by: The Phazer


I think one of the positive things it that the range seems different enough that it fills in some of the weaknesses in the Contrast range - notably the darker blues/purples in Contrast are awful, and they seem better here.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/01 15:29:37


Post by: scarletsquig


 stahly wrote:


I have tried to paint a more nuanced picture in my review: https://taleofpainters.com/2022/01/first-look-speedpaint-by-the-army-painter-better-cheaper-than-contrast/

I also find that Speedpaints are a little thinner and a little more difficult to control, but they also dry a little smoother with less pooling. The Squidmar review is a bit one-sided and very much focused on his personal painting style, which doesn't really correspond to the idea of Speedpaint/Contrast.



Thanks for that review, I always add extra layers over contrast to highlight and the reactivation of speedpaint kills it for me, I can't be doing highlights over an area then have the basecoat melt into it, probably in a patchy manner and having to varnish seal constantly just isn't acceptable as a fix.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/01 18:42:40


Post by: chaos0xomega


 Shadow Walker wrote:
Oathmark Revenant hero painted mostly with Army Painter Speedpaints


Ohh what colors/technique did you use to accomplish that?? I love it, I want to use that scheme for one of my armies.

 stahly wrote:

I have tried to paint a more nuanced picture in my review: https://taleofpainters.com/2022/01/first-look-speedpaint-by-the-army-painter-better-cheaper-than-contrast/
I also find that Speedpaints are a little thinner and a little more difficult to control, but they also dry a little smoother with less pooling. The Squidmar review is a bit one-sided and very much focused on his personal painting style, which doesn't really correspond to the idea of Speedpaint/Contrast.



I think the speedpaint looks better, something about the coloration feels more dramatic and cleaner than contrast.



Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/01 19:45:32


Post by: NAVARRO


Looking at some reviews looks like it flows better into the recesses and has a glossier finish witch probably helps with the flow.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/01 19:56:16


Post by: Shadow Walker


chaos0xomega wrote:
 Shadow Walker wrote:
Oathmark Revenant hero painted mostly with Army Painter Speedpaints


Ohh what colors/technique did you use to accomplish that??


It is not mine. It was posted on Northstar Miniatures FB. If I remember correctly there was a description of techniques used on the model too.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/01 20:26:56


Post by: Azazelx


scarletsquig wrote:
 stahly wrote:


I have tried to paint a more nuanced picture in my review: https://taleofpainters.com/2022/01/first-look-speedpaint-by-the-army-painter-better-cheaper-than-contrast/

I also find that Speedpaints are a little thinner and a little more difficult to control, but they also dry a little smoother with less pooling. The Squidmar review is a bit one-sided and very much focused on his personal painting style, which doesn't really correspond to the idea of Speedpaint/Contrast.



Thanks for that review, I always add extra layers over contrast to highlight and the reactivation of speedpaint kills it for me, I can't be doing highlights over an area then have the basecoat melt into it, probably in a patchy manner and having to varnish seal constantly just isn't acceptable as a fix.


Agreed!
Stahly - if you're able to do a follow-up as you said you might, I'd be very interested in finding out which Speedpaints don't reactivate when painted over.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/01 22:25:28


Post by: ced1106


> Sigh, I really want to like AP because dropper and price are a big plus, but it really looks like it's only good at painting extremely textured surfaces you will only touch once.

Yeah, that. And with washes and colored primers, I was able to buy only one or two bottles and integrate them into my existing paint set. I keep getting the impression that GW and AP want you to buy a whole set of paints.

As a generic fantasy miniature painter, I don't have many uniformly colored miniatures (eg. demons, boars). Most of my miniatures have small and distinctly colored areas. I figure contrast paints lose their speed advantage when you have the overhead between colors of cleaning your brushes, unclogging eye droppers dripping paint to your palette (I'm so lazy I prefer paints with caps), and, worst of all, if and when one color of paint goes into an area where you don't want it and you have to repaint it.

Dunno why Goobertown cares about AP Speedpaint, when GH pulled off their own contrast paint formula, which uses matte medium, acrylic ink, and a little flow aid. Still, if you're a new painter who hasn't sunk $$$ into conventional hobby paints and aren't used to speedpainting, then, sure, contrast. My painting sped up dramatically when I switched to colored primers and washes.

But if someone made a paint that got rid of mold lines, filled in gaps, and primed my miniature while I painted, I'd be there!


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/02 09:11:41


Post by: Shadow Walker


 ced1106 wrote:


But if someone made a paint that got rid of mold lines, filled in gaps, and primed my miniature while I painted, I'd be there!


Ha ha that would be the epitome of human ingenuity!


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/02 10:40:41


Post by: stahly


 Azazelx wrote:
scarletsquig wrote:
 stahly wrote:


I have tried to paint a more nuanced picture in my review: https://taleofpainters.com/2022/01/first-look-speedpaint-by-the-army-painter-better-cheaper-than-contrast/

I also find that Speedpaints are a little thinner and a little more difficult to control, but they also dry a little smoother with less pooling. The Squidmar review is a bit one-sided and very much focused on his personal painting style, which doesn't really correspond to the idea of Speedpaint/Contrast.



Thanks for that review, I always add extra layers over contrast to highlight and the reactivation of speedpaint kills it for me, I can't be doing highlights over an area then have the basecoat melt into it, probably in a patchy manner and having to varnish seal constantly just isn't acceptable as a fix.


Agreed!
Stahly - if you're able to do a follow-up as you said you might, I'd be very interested in finding out which Speedpaints don't reactivate when painted over.


I'm at it! My in-depth video review will be drop before the 19th, which is the release date of the starter set.

I've reached out to my contacts at The Army Painter and they said the reactivating is a side effect of the medium they use, but it would only tend to happen with Speedpaints containg yellow pigments – so yellow, orange, red, and some of the greens, but I'll have to try for myself. It's an issue no other review has pointed out so far, at least the ones I watched, maybe because Games Workshop and Contrast bashing generates more clicks on YouTube?


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/02 10:45:39


Post by: Shadow Walker


Another video about testing Speedpaints


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/02 14:44:45


Post by: chaos0xomega


 ced1106 wrote:
> Sigh, I really want to like AP because dropper and price are a big plus, but it really looks like it's only good at painting extremely textured surfaces you will only touch once.

Yeah, that. And with washes and colored primers, I was able to buy only one or two bottles and integrate them into my existing paint set. I keep getting the impression that GW and AP want you to buy a whole set of paints.

As a generic fantasy miniature painter, I don't have many uniformly colored miniatures (eg. demons, boars). Most of my miniatures have small and distinctly colored areas. I figure contrast paints lose their speed advantage when you have the overhead between colors of cleaning your brushes, unclogging eye droppers dripping paint to your palette (I'm so lazy I prefer paints with caps), and, worst of all, if and when one color of paint goes into an area where you don't want it and you have to repaint it.

Dunno why Goobertown cares about AP Speedpaint, when GH pulled off their own contrast paint formula, which uses matte medium, acrylic ink, and a little flow aid.


Probably a mix of factors:

1. Convenience, sometimes you don't want to deal with mixing stuff yourself.
2. Sponsorship/revenue streams - I assume like most big social influencers that Goobertown gets paid for his reviews by the publishers, etc. If not, then he definitely generates revenue through traffic, which means he has a good reason to do reviews on products that would generate views on his content.
3. His homemade contrast isn't that good and doesn't flow the same way contrast does. Its a nice approximation but not a 1:1 analog and doesn't quite do the same things that contrast does.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/02 15:31:12


Post by: Ian Sturrock


 stahly wrote:


I've reached out to my contacts at The Army Painter and they said the reactivating is a side effect of the medium they use, but it would only tend to happen with Speedpaints containg yellow pigments – so yellow, orange, red, and some of the greens, but I'll have to try for myself. It's an issue no other review has pointed out so far, at least the ones I watched, maybe because Games Workshop and Contrast bashing generates more clicks on YouTube?


I am very interested again! I think Contrast fills my needs in yellows, oranges, and to some extent reds pretty well. I will be very happy to pick up blue, purple, and black Speedpaints, and use old school approaches to green if I have to. A decent blue Speedpaint with a clear yellow over the top might be a good compromise for green.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/02 15:41:42


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 Ian Sturrock wrote:
 stahly wrote:


I've reached out to my contacts at The Army Painter and they said the reactivating is a side effect of the medium they use, but it would only tend to happen with Speedpaints containg yellow pigments – so yellow, orange, red, and some of the greens, but I'll have to try for myself. It's an issue no other review has pointed out so far, at least the ones I watched, maybe because Games Workshop and Contrast bashing generates more clicks on YouTube?


I am very interested again! I think Contrast fills my needs in yellows, oranges, and to some extent reds pretty well. I will be very happy to pick up blue, purple, and black Speedpaints, and use old school approaches to green if I have to. A decent blue Speedpaint with a clear yellow over the top might be a good compromise for green.


Goober didn't mention it in his initial review, but in his more recent video he brought up the issue of paint reactivating and commented that you either need to apply it carefully or varnish between coats. He specifically showed the purple colour as having this issue by applying some medium over it to reactivate it.

I really liked the effect Goober got by applying it over a black/white primed model, I've seen others (maybe Marco Frisoni?) doing the same thing with contrast paints, but usually in a much more controlled and time consuming manner. Goober got pretty good results quickly with it.

I think both GW and Army Painter should advertise prepainting as a way to get better results, as it's super quick to prime a model black, drybrush it grey and then white prior to applying the contrast/speed paint. Could also try priming dark brown instead of black, or the complementary colour of the main colour you'll be using on the model.






Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/02 18:35:37


Post by: BigOscar


I liked the video put up by Geek Gaming Scenics, where he paints an entire LotR goblin army by slathering them in speed paint and then just drybrushing over them. That feels like what I would probably use them for, when I need a bunch of miniatures painted so they don't look terrible, in a hurry with no real effort.




Also, with Goobertown, it is pretty much worth remembering that he is the miniatures equivalent of a kids TV presenter or someone like Bob Ross. The guy loves everything, always positive and just seems to enjoy life. So pretty much everything I've seen him use, he's pretty positive about, even when he's not crazy about something he seems to find positives. That seems to be just who he is


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/02 19:38:20


Post by: chaos0xomega


BigOscar wrote:


Also, with Goobertown, it is pretty much worth remembering that he is the miniatures equivalent of a kids TV presenter or someone like Bob Ross. The guy loves everything, always positive and just seems to enjoy life. So pretty much everything I've seen him use, he's pretty positive about, even when he's not crazy about something he seems to find positives. That seems to be just who he is


Which is completely 100% admirable and arguably more helpful in terms of review quality than someone who doesn't do the same.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/02 19:43:36


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


chaos0xomega wrote:
BigOscar wrote:


Also, with Goobertown, it is pretty much worth remembering that he is the miniatures equivalent of a kids TV presenter or someone like Bob Ross. The guy loves everything, always positive and just seems to enjoy life. So pretty much everything I've seen him use, he's pretty positive about, even when he's not crazy about something he seems to find positives. That seems to be just who he is


Which is completely 100% admirable and arguably more helpful in terms of review quality than someone who doesn't do the same.


In what world does every review being positive help assess the objective quality of a product in any way? Logically, it would do the opposite.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/02 19:56:13


Post by: kodos


because the attitude is different

being positive about the product helps you the same way as being negative, it points you to the thing it is good or bad

if the review stays positive and the only thing they say is "the product is cheap", tells you as much as a review with a 30 minute rant of what other more expensive products can do better


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/02 20:08:36


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


 kodos wrote:
because the attitude is different

being positive about the product helps you the same way as being negative, it points you to the thing it is good or bad


...no?
If they're relentlessly positive about everything, then they're gonna present everything as good, never bad, and thus will present a decent product in the same way as a bloody disgrace that never should've been made, not informing you of really anything.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/02 22:38:14


Post by: insaniak


 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 kodos wrote:
because the attitude is different

being positive about the product helps you the same way as being negative, it points you to the thing it is good or bad


...no?
If they're relentlessly positive about everything, then they're gonna present everything as good, never bad, and thus will present a decent product in the same way as a bloody disgrace that never should've been made, not informing you of really anything.

Unless you can point to an actual example of this from the reviewer in question, you're arguing about the definition of 'positive' rather than the value of positive reviews. Move on.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/02 23:21:51


Post by: NAVARRO


Goobertown is a legend. He has so many genuine fun ideas like the random painting blind packs etc. Super chilled.

Besides if he doesn't like something he says so... for example the swamp Orcs he said they are not fun and way too serious etc.

Either way all kinds of reviews are important for you to make up your own mind. God, bad, sugarcoated, salty... all is good keep them coming.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/02 23:31:49


Post by: ced1106


> Unless you can point to an actual example of this from the reviewer in question

Well, there's a site called Amazon that has too many such reviews.

When internet shopping was a new thing (go ask grandpa), businesses were reluctant to allow online reviews, fearing negative ones. Turns out the reverse. Online reviews tend to be positive, making it difficult sometimes for a consumer to make a choice. When three stars is a bad review... well, talk about grade inflation.

As a reviewer myself (doing it less, since I can just buy stuff on sale you have two reasons why a good review is suspect:
1. The reviewer gets free stuff. Besides the obvious not paying, the reviewer may present positive reviews to get more free stuff.
2. It takes work to write and film a review. Why bother if you're not passionate about the product? Why write a negative review (which is often not fun to write) when you have a positive one to review (which allows you to enjoy another aspect of a a product, develops your presentation skills, and often involves advocacy).

From boardgames, Undead Viking was criticized for being positive about everything he reviews, leading to the claim that his reviews weren't helpful. In fact, he got involved in some sort of KS games controversy over a review of his. I'll agree, then, that positivity makes it difficulty to make a comparative decision between one reviewer's review of one of his reviewed product vs. another. OTOH, If you read between the lines, what a reviewer *doesn't* review may be telling. He may not have enough of an argument to make a proper review, yet if he had a negative first impression, that might be enough to make a decision about a product. Either that, or he didn't get the free stuff he wanted.

I don't bother with videos for reviews, since, as a reader of written reviews, I can skim a review and jump to the negative parts, then read the positive ones if I'm still interested. I find it a waste of time to watch a video review only for it to end without telling me the information I'm looking for. I also don't watch or read reviews for entertainment, though would understand why someone would watch a review channel for its entertainment value (particularly Shut Up and Play (?) or any channel with a pretty girl...). Video tutorials, meanwhile, I find invaluable, since -- other than boardgames -- I mostly have to learn by seeing.

Still, someone has to pay for these things, and if you're not, guess who is (even with those annoying YT ads). Consumer Reports specifically only reviews products they pay for, but charge a subscription fee for it. Customers who want "free" reviews are obviously winning out (our family dropped our CR subscription decades and I was just reading several for some games on sale so all I can say is good luck and don't have poor impulse control like I have (Ooo... Judge Dredd: Helter Skelter on sale at Osprey!).

EDIT: As for pictures, I have to dismiss those, too. As an advanced tabletop painter, I know that a picture doesn't tell you how much skill or time is the paintjob versus the product. More importantly, most miniature pictures are shown close-up. Unless you play your miniature games by pushing a miniature around with your nose, this really doesn't matter, especially with boardgamers.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/03 11:24:43


Post by: deano2099


For board games, any review can be useful as you'll still get an idea how it plays regardless of how the reviewer approaches it. For paint I think it's different as even with real-time footage of the painting happening, it still doesn't really show you how it feels to use, how easy it is to apply and so on. Opinion is much more important at that point.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/03 11:39:45


Post by: Albertorius


 ced1106 wrote:
> Unless you can point to an actual example of this from the reviewer in question

Well, there's a site called Amazon that has too many such reviews.


You realize, of course, that you didn't actually answer to what insaniak said, right?


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/03 11:56:20


Post by: lord_blackfang


BigOscar wrote:

Also, with Goobertown, it is pretty much worth remembering that he is the miniatures equivalent of a kids TV presenter or someone like Bob Ross. The guy loves everything, always positive and just seems to enjoy life. So pretty much everything I've seen him use, he's pretty positive about, even when he's not crazy about something he seems to find positives. That seems to be just who he is


Uh, Goobertown's review of Contrast was "don't buy, make your own washes"


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/03 13:06:16


Post by: chaos0xomega


 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
BigOscar wrote:


Also, with Goobertown, it is pretty much worth remembering that he is the miniatures equivalent of a kids TV presenter or someone like Bob Ross. The guy loves everything, always positive and just seems to enjoy life. So pretty much everything I've seen him use, he's pretty positive about, even when he's not crazy about something he seems to find positives. That seems to be just who he is


Which is completely 100% admirable and arguably more helpful in terms of review quality than someone who doesn't do the same.


In what world does every review being positive help assess the objective quality of a product in any way? Logically, it would do the opposite.


The default for reviewers who don't like something is to typically focus on the negatives and the reasons why they don't like it and in the process overlook the positives entirely. If you're able to not like something but still tell me what it does well then you're being more helpful to me than just telling me it sucks.



Agreed. I usually don't bother looking for product reviews on storefronts or from big influencers on youtube. If I want to know how a product performs, I'll look on dakka to get a "real consumers" input or watch tutorial videos, etc. on youtube to see a product being used in a practical application by someone who didn't get it for free, etc.



Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/03 19:56:59


Post by: ced1106


> tutorial videos, etc.

Good point. My Dad does handyman work, and he watches tutorial videos all the time. Why? Because he has an actual problem (or knows he may have one in the future) and needs to fix it.

Myself, I rarely watch tutorial videos (I'm not the handyman guy -- I'm the consumer information guy, so I look up written articles on the web) so, evidently, I don't have a problem right now that needs fixing. (When I was trying to paint hair and learn OSL, not that I use either nowadays, you bet I was watching videos.) And, growing up as a technology consumer, almost everything I'm pitched fixes "a problem I didn't know I had", aka. the "solution looking for a problem". The problem about the solution" is that most of these solutions are, at best, incremental. (As I said earlier, I'd buy any paint that removed mold lines. Oh, and I'm looking for a brush that keeps its tip even if I only rinse it.) Yet, at the same time, you not only have to buy a new product, you often have to learn a new skill set (and discard an old one), and this cost is hidden within the hype. (So, no, I'm fine with forums and don't use social media, either, you kids get off of my lawn.)


> You realize, of course, that you didn't actually answer to what insaniak said, right?

You realize, of course, that I don't find these review videos helpful to watch, right? I'm not going to watch a review that doesn't answer my questions so turns out to be little more than a commercial. I actually find the term "social influencer" ironic, as these videos rarely influence me, and watching a video isn't a social activity.

EDIT: Oh, and the best way to show one's argument creds is to post a follow-up post that says the same thing someone's said before. And did I mention that I'm looking for a paint that saves me the time and frustration of painting eyes? Because I totally am.


> For paint I think it's different as even with real-time footage of the painting happening, it still doesn't really show you how it feels to use, how easy it is to apply and so on.

Yeah, that's definitely a problem. I bought Stynylrez black primer, and it was great for not only priming, but as paint. I later bought their white primer and now I have a $12 bottle of air bubbles. As for boardgames, some consumers used to believe, "try before you buy". But that was pre-internet, before FOMO and self-quarantine took over. (Not to mention buying more stuff to reach free shipping...) You'd see the occasional "paint and take" event at a miniatures convention or FLGS, but they're obviously more expensive than to ship free product, and even more difficult to do during the pandemic. Main problem with video boardgame reviews that you don't see in painting ones is that often you may need to play a boardgame a fair amount to understand the game design and deeper strategies. In fact, BGG has written "First Impression" posts that aren't comprehensive reviews, but are there for those who want to know about a product as soon as it comes out. Anyway, the more popular video reviewers has so much product to review that, not only do they turn away product, but, more importantly, don't always have the proper time to review a game. (OTOH, video unboxings and "learn how to play" are implicit disclaimers that the video is not a proper review.)


> I liked the video put up by Geek Gaming Scenics, where he paints an entire LotR goblin army by slathering them in speed paint and then just drybrushing over them.

Thanks for the video. I also think constrast was oversold for paint applications beyond its original intent. Yes, other painters want to be creative, but, like handymen, I'm fine with "the right tool for the right job".

Or, at least tutorial videos when I don't have the right tool and need to fix something.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/03 20:44:41


Post by: Albertorius


 ced1106 wrote:

> You realize, of course, that you didn't actually answer to what insaniak said, right?

You realize, of course, that I don't find these review videos helpful to watch, right? I'm not going to watch a review that doesn't answer my questions so turns out to be little more than a commercial. I actually find the term "social influencer" ironic, as these videos rarely influence me, and watching a video isn't a social activity.

So, answer's no, then, you can't, or won't, point to an actual example from Goobertown. Right on.

Interesting to note that you seem to feel qualified to rate his videos as you don't appear to actually watch them.

(I don't usually do either, but I really wouldn't be as categoric).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
chaos0xomega wrote:
The default for reviewers who don't like something is to typically focus on the negatives and the reasons why they don't like it and in the process overlook the positives entirely. If you're able to not like something but still tell me what it does well then you're being more helpful to me than just telling me it sucks.

Also, this, yeah. Usually someone absolutely positive will tell me more about products than someone absolutely negative, who usually will only tell me it's manure.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/03 20:51:56


Post by: NAVARRO


 Albertorius wrote:
 ced1106 wrote:

> You realize, of course, that you didn't actually answer to what insaniak said, right?

You realize, of course, that I don't find these review videos helpful to watch, right? I'm not going to watch a review that doesn't answer my questions so turns out to be little more than a commercial. I actually find the term "social influencer" ironic, as these videos rarely influence me, and watching a video isn't a social activity.

So, answer's no, then, you can't, or won't, point to an actual example from Goobertown. Right on.

Interesting to note that you seem to feel qualified to rate his videos as you don't appear to actually watch them.

(I don't usually do either, but I really wouldn't be as categoric).


I know right? This does not make any sense but hey, sure!
How can someone say he doesn't watch a review that doesn't answers his questions... If you dont watch you dont know... unless your questions are totally unrelated to the review then yeah


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/04 01:04:31


Post by: insaniak


 ced1106 wrote:
And did I mention that I'm looking for a paint that saves me the time and frustration of painting eyes? Because I totally am.

Someone needs to come up with a paint equivalent of those 'outline' marker pens, so you can just dot the paint onto the eye and it dries black in the middle with a white border.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/04 17:12:28


Post by: Shadow Walker





Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/05 10:34:22


Post by: Shadow Walker





Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/05 11:06:12


Post by: NAVARRO


POTS? Is he nuts???? Move liquid paints to POTS! Oh my.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/05 13:57:43


Post by: Toofast


 NAVARRO wrote:
POTS? Is he nuts???? Move liquid paints to POTS! Oh my.


Maybe I'm nuts but I actually prefer the contrast paint in flip top pots. I move most of my citadel paints to dropper bottles but the washes, glazes, technical paints, and contrast paints stay in the pots. They dry out too fast on a paper palette. The bottom layer can also dry into a solid and then when you move your brush around, you get little pieces of it in the brush and then onto your model. It's just easier to use out of a pot IMO


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/05 22:35:37


Post by: BigOscar


I sort of agree, but I end up diluting most of my contrast paints with medium, so a bottle ends up more useful than the pots. I use a little metal makeup dish as a palette for them and have no real issue. (and I have a pre-mixed 80% medium/20% skeleton horde dropper bottle that I use as the base coat of my army anyway)


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/05 23:46:27


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


Meh, I personally never had issues with GW's pots, strangely enough. Especially for shades and contrast and such, the little...roundish tray on the underside of the cap is awfully convinient for them.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/06 05:01:01


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


I've heard a few reviews say it's more runny and a few say it's less runny than contrast.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/06 09:15:39


Post by: Shadow Walker


Another vs video



Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/12 15:36:28


Post by: Shadow Walker





Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/17 21:10:42


Post by: stahly


So, here is my final review & comparison. And yes, Speedpaints reactivate when you paint over them. All of them. Doesn't matter how long you let them dry.

It's not the end of the world, but you need to think about how you want to use them:




I must have put over 25 hours into filming and editing this video, hopefully it's the most comprehensive review yet. Hope it helps!


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/17 23:47:28


Post by: Tannhauser42


Thanks for that review, Stahly!
It's great to have that detailed testing on the reactivation aspect.
As someone who has a rather large Ultramarines army to paint, I've been trying to find just the right blue for them, as Idon't like GW's "official" Ultramarines/Macragge Blue (too dark). I really want to give that Highlord Blue from Speedpaint a try.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/18 00:08:53


Post by: BigOscar


Very disappointing that they all bleed, can't see myself picking them up now tbh. It's shame as they do look to cover quite nicely, particularly on the flatter surfaces that contrast falls short on, but if the purpose is to save me time then they seem like a bit of a non-starter


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/18 01:38:11


Post by: angel of death 007


 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Thanks for that review, Stahly!
It's great to have that detailed testing on the reactivation aspect.


I will second this, i was completely sold on Speedpaints from the reviews I saw. Now I am definately second guessing it. The problem I have with contrast is often times I have to go and touch up spots which sounds really hard if they bleed through. My question might be for edge highlighting or drybrushing over the Speedpaint. Is the bleed through still an issue?


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/18 08:36:50


Post by: Chillreaper


I'm seriously thinking about picking up big box of Speedpaints, as I've realised that there's a time and a place for putting hours and days into a single model and times when I just need to get stuff done.

This reactivation thing looks like it will require a different approach; I'll have to start staying in the lines and not just slapping it on and painting over it. Also, I'm thinking that it will be a case of doing Speedpaint base layers (carefully!), then hitting it with varnish before doing any details. This just adds another step to the whole process. At some point I'll decide that that's just not worth the effort and go back to my old tactics.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/18 08:58:35


Post by: lord_blackfang


Staying in the lines is a dealbreaker. I'm probably switching from the Megaset to none.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/18 09:35:34


Post by: stahly


angel of death 007 wrote:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Thanks for that review, Stahly!
It's great to have that detailed testing on the reactivation aspect.


I will second this, i was completely sold on Speedpaints from the reviews I saw. Now I am definately second guessing it. The problem I have with contrast is often times I have to go and touch up spots which sounds really hard if they bleed through. My question might be for edge highlighting or drybrushing over the Speedpaint. Is the bleed through still an issue?


Edge highlights and drybrushing should be fine, the reactivation only becomes noticeable when you want to paint over a "larger" area.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/18 10:10:03


Post by: Albertorius


I have ordered the small set, should arrive in a couple days, so I'll be able to check for myself.

If nothing else, I'll surely be able to use them for all those boardgames that glare at me unpainted from the shelf.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/18 20:45:16


Post by: Reavsie


I'm going for the full set next month.

I'm mostly painting power armour so first pass can probably still be a sloppy all over base coat. I'll then do a rattle can varnish pass to deal with the reactivation issue.

Yes, it's an extra step, but minimal time investment.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/18 21:05:44


Post by: Gallahad


I frequently have to varnish contrast minis anyways because of how easy is for the paint to rub off.

I wonder if you can reactivate contrast paints with the Speed paints to correct unsightly pool marks etc. that I missed on the first pass?

That would be very useful


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/20 06:26:19


Post by: insaniak


 stahly wrote:
angel of death 007 wrote:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Thanks for that review, Stahly!
It's great to have that detailed testing on the reactivation aspect.


I will second this, i was completely sold on Speedpaints from the reviews I saw. Now I am definately second guessing it. The problem I have with contrast is often times I have to go and touch up spots which sounds really hard if they bleed through. My question might be for edge highlighting or drybrushing over the Speedpaint. Is the bleed through still an issue?


Edge highlights and drybrushing should be fine, the reactivation only becomes noticeable when you want to paint over a "larger" area.

If anything, reactivating slightly on edge highlighting will potentially just help with blending.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/20 07:13:43


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 Gallahad wrote:
I frequently have to varnish contrast minis anyways because of how easy is for the paint to rub off.

I wonder if you can reactivate contrast paints with the Speed paints to correct unsightly pool marks etc. that I missed on the first pass?

That would be very useful


I have no experience with speed paint, but reactivating paint is rarely a neat or clean process, it's not going to return to a nice consistency and it's probably stained the surface, so you're probably more likely to make it look even messier.



Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/20 15:34:06


Post by: Ghaz


A review of the Speed Paint line by Juan Hidalgo:




Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/20 15:36:40


Post by: NAVARRO


Yeah just looked at that If theres someone that knows the ins and outs of contrast its Hidalgo since he is one of the best painters using those techniques and pushing the limits of contrasts.

As expected a great review.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/20 16:06:55


Post by: Shadow Walker


Ok, guys I have now a little big head after all those reviews. Could you please give a horrible painter a quick, short, definitive answer - are these paints for me? Will they make the painting as short, and least unpleasant experience as possible or should I save my money?


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/20 16:46:08


Post by: kodos


you want to have a simple base coat on your minis that looks ok are going to use the colours straight out of the bottle with no mixing, and are still able to paint careful enough for only getting the colour were it should be
than those are for you

you want a basecoat to apply some advanced techniques or use them as base colours for wet-blending so you don't need to thin others down
get something else


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/20 16:49:33


Post by: Tannhauser42


 Shadow Walker wrote:
Ok, guys I have now a little big head after all those reviews. Could you please give a horrible painter a quick, short, definitive answer - are these paints for me? Will they make the painting as short, and least unpleasant experience as possible or should I save my money?


Maybe?
I think a large part of it depends on what models you're painting and what color you're using. If you're after a quick and easy paintjob, I think Army Painter's standard method is still one of the most straightforward: basecoat the model (possibly using a primer of the color your majority basecoat is), and then just "dipping" the whole model (either literally in a can of quickshade, or brushing a wash over it), with maybe a drybrush somewhere in there to highlight. Speedpaints and contrast kind of combine those steps of basecoating and dipping/washing.
To offer my own anecdotal evidence: I'm starting an Ultramarines army. GW's Ultramarines Blue Contrast paint had terrible coverage when I tested it. To get an even color on the flat surfaces of the marine I was testing, I had to apply two coats. With two coats, just about any shading created by the Contrast paint was gone. So I would be better off using a standard one-coat paint and then shading with a wash/dip. On the other hand, I hear that the red Contrast paint offers great coverage in one coat, but I'm not painting Blood Angels.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/20 16:50:19


Post by: Ac4155


Oh man, these reviews coming out showing the reactivation issue are disappointing.

I like using contrast as an additional element/tool in traditional base/layer/highlight painting, speeds up painting and helps hide my poorer skills. With the reactivation of the paints that’s basically not possible now. Even just the need to keep it all neatly in the lines, and not be able to touch up spillovers, limits their value for me.

Was hoping that we’d get a couple of nice substitutes for the darker/worse Contrast paints. But it looks like I’ll give them a miss entirely now.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/20 16:58:57


Post by: kodos


that they are still reactive to water after the colours tried, actually makes them better in that case as you can remove spillovers easier
you just don't paint over them but remove them

so the colours do exactly that they are advertised for, 1 layer speed paint

for more advanced techniques, Acrylic Inks have always been the alternative to Contrast, or better said have already been used for that long before Contrast existed


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/20 17:03:53


Post by: Shadow Walker


 kodos wrote:
you want to have a simple base coat on your minis that looks ok are going to use the colours straight out of the bottle with no mixing, and are still able to paint careful enough for only getting the colour were it should be
than those are for you

This! Thank you


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/20 17:29:11


Post by: joseph_curwen


Hidalgo's video is the first I've seen mentioning that they have a tendency to reactivate with water and that has completely changed my idea of what I might use them for (and maybe it's ironic that that's what convinced me to get some but it's good to see them as different from contrast paints as Scale 75's instant color range rather than as any sort of competition or alternative.)


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/20 18:04:24


Post by: jullevi


I can see Speedpaints being useful for what they are intended but for me who prefers to use Contrast paints and Shades straight from the pot, paint over them and use brush-on varnish, they don't tick any boxes.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/20 18:20:25


Post by: NAVARRO


Also they could be used like an enamel wash since you can easy remove parts by reactivating it.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/20 18:48:56


Post by: lord_blackfang


Being able to paint my way around a large model and join up the last brush stroke with the first without a tide line in between does seem like a massive upside, that is the single weakest point of Contrast.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/20 19:45:26


Post by: petrov27


 NAVARRO wrote:
Also they could be used like an enamel wash since you can easy remove parts by reactivating it.



Thats a good point there that I hadn't considered I could see some use that way possibly hmm....


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/21 01:55:18


Post by: TalonZahn


Or you could shoot it with a matte cover spray and it won't reactivate.

I guess it depends how much time you want to spend really.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/21 02:07:31


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Angela has another one up, this time using the speedpaint over existing colours. It seems to make the red nicer:




Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/21 09:26:36


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Angela has another one up, this time using the speedpaint over existing colours. It seems to make the red nicer:




At that point you'll probably get just as much bang for your buck using a traditional wash / shade / ink because she's only really using it to darken the crevices.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/21 10:08:23


Post by: Pacific


I might get a few of these to use for speed-painting the A Song of Ice and Fire starter. No advanced techniques for me I'm afraid (I know which way around to hold the brush and that's it!) but if these are just a layer, highlight and varnish then that's fine by me.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/21 10:48:01


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 Pacific wrote:
I might get a few of these to use for speed-painting the A Song of Ice and Fire starter. No advanced techniques for me I'm afraid (I know which way around to hold the brush and that's it!) but if these are just a layer, highlight and varnish then that's fine by me.


Looking at Goober's 2nd video, I think a good way to use these is to prime a dark colour (black, dark brown, etc), drybrush with a light colour (white, light grey) and then apply the speed paint.

If won't take a hell of a lot longer than just prime white then speedpaint, but it looks to add a lot of depth. This is the video I'm talking about...




Of course your traditional contrasts can be painted the same way also.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/21 12:22:38


Post by: Pacific


Thanks a lot for that video AllSeeingSkink, that was super useful! And has completely sold me on getting some of these. It almost feels like cheating actually! But, I think for larger groups of miniatures, that would otherwise take many months to paint, this surely has to be the best option.

Interesting seeing comments about the varnishing. I am honestly amazed anyone has miniatures for tabletop gaming and does not varnish them, regardless of paint used (unless enamels have been used or something?!) Especially once the miniature starts to get a bit older, or you have that heavy-handed friend that always breaks anything they touch, then its quite noticeable how the paint will start to fade - for me they are an absolute essential.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/21 12:34:34


Post by: angel of death 007


 stahly wrote:
angel of death 007 wrote:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Thanks for that review, Stahly!
It's great to have that detailed testing on the reactivation aspect.


I will second this, i was completely sold on Speedpaints from the reviews I saw. Now I am definately second guessing it. The problem I have with contrast is often times I have to go and touch up spots which sounds really hard if they bleed through. My question might be for edge highlighting or drybrushing over the Speedpaint. Is the bleed through still an issue?


Edge highlights and drybrushing should be fine, the reactivation only becomes noticeable when you want to paint over a "larger" area.


That is good to know. I might pick up a few colors and give them a go. What are your most recommended colors if you already got quite a lot of contrast.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/21 18:55:55


Post by: Bossk_Hogg


Are these actually out yet in the US?


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/21 20:09:29


Post by: Azazelx


 Pacific wrote:
Thanks a lot for that video AllSeeingSkink, that was super useful! And has completely sold me on getting some of these. It almost feels like cheating actually! But, I think for larger groups of miniatures, that would otherwise take many months to paint, this surely has to be the best option.

Interesting seeing comments about the varnishing. I am honestly amazed anyone has miniatures for tabletop gaming and does not varnish them, regardless of paint used (unless enamels have been used or something?!) Especially once the miniature starts to get a bit older, or you have that heavy-handed friend that always breaks anything they touch, then its quite noticeable how the paint will start to fade - for me they are an absolute essential.


The issue really isn't about varnishing our tabletop miniatures - it's about needing to varnish them partway through the painting process - or before you can touch up where you accidentally slopped paint on an area and don't want it reactivating when you planned to go over it with white/yellow/etc before you can move on. Also, the fact that varnish can apparently reactivate the stuff....


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/21 20:36:09


Post by: kodos


if the varnish reactivates it, this would be bad

the others are not an issue straight away as:

need to varnish for advanced techniques is already a thing with certain colours and if you are going to buy them to use them that way you know this in advanced (like no one is complaining that he needs to varnish before using an oil-wash)

in the other case, this colour is meant to be the only layer or the top layer, not a base for something else

or before you can touch up where you accidentally slopped paint on an area and don't want it reactivating when you planned to go over it with white/yellow/etc before you can move on

well in this case, you take some water and remove the speed paint before you advance and not just paint over it or varnish before you move on


I for now will get some of those or maybe the starter set as I see some possibilities to use them for my models
looks like to be the best method to have large areas of bronce or golden armour, and I want to try them for weathering instead of oil-washes or chipping


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/21 21:46:22


Post by: insaniak


 Pacific wrote:

Interesting seeing comments about the varnishing. I am honestly amazed anyone has miniatures for tabletop gaming and does not varnish them, regardless of paint used (unless enamels have been used or something?!) Especially once the miniature starts to get a bit older, or you have that heavy-handed friend that always breaks anything they touch, then its quite noticeable how the paint will start to fade - for me they are an absolute essential.

I've never varnished gaming minatures, as I don't like the way it affects the highlights. Unless you're storing them in direct sunlight, fading shouldn't be an issue. Chipping or rubbing can be a bigger problem, particularly for miniatures basecoated with brush-on paints rather than sprays, but tends to be a bigger problem with metal models, and even there it's minimal if you actually look after your minis.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/21 22:30:41


Post by: dewd11


They look awesome. Painting is honestly my least favorite part of the hobby. Being able to get a whole army table top ready quickly is a huge selling point, and the cost compared to contrast makes it even sweeter.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/22 11:39:56


Post by: Pacific


insaniak wrote:
 Pacific wrote:

Interesting seeing comments about the varnishing. I am honestly amazed anyone has miniatures for tabletop gaming and does not varnish them, regardless of paint used (unless enamels have been used or something?!) Especially once the miniature starts to get a bit older, or you have that heavy-handed friend that always breaks anything they touch, then its quite noticeable how the paint will start to fade - for me they are an absolute essential.

I've never varnished gaming minatures, as I don't like the way it affects the highlights. Unless you're storing them in direct sunlight, fading shouldn't be an issue. Chipping or rubbing can be a bigger problem, particularly for miniatures basecoated with brush-on paints rather than sprays, but tends to be a bigger problem with metal models, and even there it's minimal if you actually look after your minis.


I think the key point is there the 'look after your minis bit'. I quite often paint stuff that is used by friends (who haven't spent the many hours painting and so are perhaps less careful). One in particular moves the minis around like he is hauling the gear stick on a 12-wheeler he is so heavy handed, so that means a lot more pinning and varnishing for me unfortunately. I usually use a satin or gloss followed by a matt to bring it back down. Definitely agree it can impact the look of the mini though, I can understand why a lot of competition painters don't varnish.

Azazelx wrote:
 Pacific wrote:
Thanks a lot for that video AllSeeingSkink, that was super useful! And has completely sold me on getting some of these. It almost feels like cheating actually! But, I think for larger groups of miniatures, that would otherwise take many months to paint, this surely has to be the best option.

Interesting seeing comments about the varnishing. I am honestly amazed anyone has miniatures for tabletop gaming and does not varnish them, regardless of paint used (unless enamels have been used or something?!) Especially once the miniature starts to get a bit older, or you have that heavy-handed friend that always breaks anything they touch, then its quite noticeable how the paint will start to fade - for me they are an absolute essential.


The issue really isn't about varnishing our tabletop miniatures - it's about needing to varnish them partway through the painting process - or before you can touch up where you accidentally slopped paint on an area and don't want it reactivating when you planned to go over it with white/yellow/etc before you can move on. Also, the fact that varnish can apparently reactivate the stuff....


That video linked above said that the paint doesn't re-activate with varnish. Do you know if someone else has had a contrary opinion? As that would be a deal breaker for me (and actually, you would have to say the product isn't fit for purpose).


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/22 11:47:13


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 Pacific wrote:
Azazelx wrote:The issue really isn't about varnishing our tabletop miniatures - it's about needing to varnish them partway through the painting process - or before you can touch up where you accidentally slopped paint on an area and don't want it reactivating when you planned to go over it with white/yellow/etc before you can move on. Also, the fact that varnish can apparently reactivate the stuff....


That video linked above said that the paint doesn't re-activate with varnish. Do you know if someone else has had a contrary opinion? As that would be a deal breaker for me (and actually, you would have to say the product isn't fit for purpose).


I imagine the issue is that if you use a brush on varnish. If it reactivates with a spray on varnish it doesn't really matter (unless it's REALLY badly reactivating and starts to run).

Given some reviews have demonstrated the reactivation with nothing more than water, I imagine almost anything will reactivate it.

Maybe a separate but related question for people who use enamel or oil washes, does it reactivate with white spirits / turps / oils? I'm currently using a painting technique that uses oils over contrasts, if I instead use speed paints and the speed paints get reactivated that'd be a pain in the arse.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
dewd11 wrote:
They look awesome. Painting is honestly my least favorite part of the hobby. Being able to get a whole army table top ready quickly is a huge selling point, and the cost compared to contrast makes it even sweeter.


Is the cost much different in the US/UK/everywhere else? Here in Oz I was surprised how similar the price was to contrasts.

A local online discounter is selling Army Painter for $8AUD a pot or $75 for the pack of 10, and contrasts at the same discounter are $9.20AUD a pot. Cheaper, yeah, but it's not blowing my socks off and making me want to replace any contrasts I already use.



Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/22 12:05:24


Post by: tneva82


 Pacific wrote:
Thanks a lot for that video AllSeeingSkink, that was super useful! And has completely sold me on getting some of these. It almost feels like cheating actually! But, I think for larger groups of miniatures, that would otherwise take many months to paint, this surely has to be the best option.

Interesting seeing comments about the varnishing. I am honestly amazed anyone has miniatures for tabletop gaming and does not varnish them, regardless of paint used (unless enamels have been used or something?!) Especially once the miniature starts to get a bit older, or you have that heavy-handed friend that always breaks anything they touch, then its quite noticeable how the paint will start to fade - for me they are an absolute essential.


What I'm worrying is need to varnish during steps.

Contrast, regular paint, contrast, regular paint...If I replace contrast with speed paint I'll need 3 steps to varnish? And seeing I'm not doing generally one colour all the way to every spot at once...even more varnish steps?


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/22 12:08:10


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 kodos wrote:
well in this case, you take some water and remove the speed paint before you advance and not just paint over it or varnish before you move on
Reactivation doesn't necessarily translate to "easy to remove" though. It seems for some colours it maybe is, others maybe not. That one review showed the blue was reasonably easy to reactivate to the point of completely removing it, but the red wasn't as easy to get moving and it'd probably be quicker to paint over a contrast than try to reactivate and remove a red speed paint. We'll have to see I guess.




Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/22 15:02:36


Post by: Pacific


AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Pacific wrote:
Azazelx wrote:The issue really isn't about varnishing our tabletop miniatures - it's about needing to varnish them partway through the painting process - or before you can touch up where you accidentally slopped paint on an area and don't want it reactivating when you planned to go over it with white/yellow/etc before you can move on. Also, the fact that varnish can apparently reactivate the stuff....


That video linked above said that the paint doesn't re-activate with varnish. Do you know if someone else has had a contrary opinion? As that would be a deal breaker for me (and actually, you would have to say the product isn't fit for purpose).


I imagine the issue is that if you use a brush on varnish. If it reactivates with a spray on varnish it doesn't really matter (unless it's REALLY badly reactivating and starts to run).

Given some reviews have demonstrated the reactivation with nothing more than water, I imagine almost anything will reactivate it.

The chap in the video specifically mentioned and used a brush on varnish and that it was OK. It's the only review I have taken the time to watch though so don't know if other people doing sampling have found out anything that says differently.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/22 15:29:51


Post by: kodos


AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Is the cost much different in the US/UK/everywhere else? Here in Oz I was surprised how similar the price was to contrasts.

the single Speedpaint here is 3,99€, 3,39€ with discount, Contrast is 6,30€, 5,67€ with discount

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 kodos wrote:
well in this case, you take some water and remove the speed paint before you advance and not just paint over it or varnish before you move on
Reactivation doesn't necessarily translate to "easy to remove" though. It seems for some colours it maybe is, others maybe not. That one review showed the blue was reasonably easy to reactivate to the point of completely removing it, but the red wasn't as easy to get moving and it'd probably be quicker to paint over a contrast than try to reactivate and remove a red speed paint. We'll have to see I guess.

I have to try it
and this is just me, I know, but I also always try to remove mistakes with acrylics by reactivating them with water instead of just painting over it, which works depening on the brand and time it had to try not always very well


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/22 16:15:51


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 kodos wrote:

I have to try it
and this is just me, I know, but I also always try to remove mistakes with acrylics by reactivating them with water instead of just painting over it, which works depening on the brand and time it had to try not always very well


I do the same, for a while I used to have a shot of vodka next to my paint because it was better to clean up mistakes than water. I imagine if you cleaned it up immediately it would be easy enough, though that's usually not what you'll be doing because you'll want to finish painting the area you were working on before going back to clean up mistakes. At that point it's a guess how easy it'll be to remove.

Personally my main worry is that with contrasts I'll often just paint over details to avoid over working the contrast, then I'll go back and pick those details out again, but if the thing reactivates that'll just be annoying to deal with and like others I normally don't varnish my models, so adding varnishing steps in between does not sound appealing, it also will wipe out any money savings for using speed paints because varnish is going to become more expensive than the paint itself. I'll just pay the 15% extra and get a contrast instead if that's going to be a problem.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/22 20:07:31


Post by: Albertorius


Just did a quick test using four paints:



Spoiler:






So far they work prett well, but the reactivation is a thing. I don't thin k it will be an issue for the case use I had in mind, though.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/22 22:35:00


Post by: angel of death 007


 Bossk_Hogg wrote:
Are these actually out yet in the US?


Nope maybe sometime in March. They were supposed to be released on 2/18/22 for the basic set. Now we are in an unknown date in March.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/23 09:00:35


Post by: Garfield666


I received and tested my paints and can happily say, they work perfectly with the cheapest white primer that my local hobby & crafts store has. I strongly dislike the overpriced trash companies sell to painters and only use regular primer. Cheaper, better finish, more content - as long as you don't need a specific colour, it only has advantages.

That being said, while the Speedpaint Colour looks good and gives a nice even finish, the bleeding through is really nasty... This severely limits the useability of these colours. I hope they fiddle with their mix and remedy this in the future...


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/23 09:54:16


Post by: Pacific


Can I ask Garfield666 have you used Contrast paints too? If so how do they compare?


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/23 20:26:36


Post by: Azazelx


 kodos wrote:
if the varnish reactivates it, this would be bad
the others are not an issue straight away as:
need to varnish for advanced techniques is already a thing with certain colours and if you are going to buy them to use them that way you know this in advanced (like no one is complaining that he needs to varnish before using an oil-wash)


Complete agreement with you on that.


in the other case, this colour is meant to be the only layer or the top layer, not a base for something else


Well, they're not advertising it as such. That's not a detail they're mentioning - it's something you're coming up with in your post. I see nothing from AP saying "Out new range of amazing Speedpaints are meant to be the only layer or the top layer, not a base for something else." - or any different verbiage with the same or a similar meaning. So then it's an issue, I hope we can agree.


or before you can touch up where you accidentally slopped paint on an area and don't want it reactivating when you planned to go over it with white/yellow/etc before you can move on

well in this case, you take some water and remove the speed paint before you advance and not just paint over it or varnish before you move on


It doesn't appear to work cleanly like that, but let us all know how it goes for you.


I for now will get some of those or maybe the starter set as I see some possibilities to use them for my models
looks like to be the best method to have large areas of bronce or golden armour, and I want to try them for weathering instead of oil-washes or chipping


Cool - looking forward to your feedback and impressions, especially on the bleed issue but also on the rest. You're not beholden to clicks or keeping AP onside like (most) of these YouTubers, so more consumer reviews are always better! I've been using two brush coats of Seraphim Sepia over Silver sparay base for bronze-ish armour.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Pacific wrote:

That video linked above said that the paint doesn't re-activate with varnish. Do you know if someone else has had a contrary opinion? As that would be a deal breaker for me (and actually, you would have to say the product isn't fit for purpose).


Both stahly's first impressions and youtube video talk about the reactivation in depth, as well as Hildago's video. I don't recall which (or if both) of the videos mentioned varnish reactivation, but one (stahly's, I *think*) definitely did.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:

A local online discounter is selling Army Painter for $8AUD a pot or $75 for the pack of 10, and contrasts at the same discounter are $9.20AUD a pot. Cheaper, yeah, but it's not blowing my socks off and making me want to replace any contrasts I already use.


Which one is that if you don't mind me asking? PM is fine if you don't want to post it.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/23 20:52:13


Post by: Gregor Samsa


Im really curious about what happened in the AP studio that a product could get so far into development with such a glaring issue. I guess they sunk the cash into the chemical formula and then realized once it was too late to turn back?


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/23 22:27:22


Post by: deano2099


 Azazelx wrote:
 kodos wrote:
if the varnish reactivates it, this would be bad
the others are not an issue straight away as:
need to varnish for advanced techniques is already a thing with certain colours and if you are going to buy them to use them that way you know this in advanced (like no one is complaining that he needs to varnish before using an oil-wash)


Complete agreement with you on that.


in the other case, this colour is meant to be the only layer or the top layer, not a base for something else


Well, they're not advertising it as such. That's not a detail they're mentioning - it's something you're coming up with in your post. I see nothing from AP saying "Out new range of amazing Speedpaints are meant to be the only layer or the top layer, not a base for something else." - or any different verbiage with the same or a similar meaning. So then it's an issue, I hope we can agree.


The description on the website literally says that:
"The all-in-one Warpaint Speedpaint is truly a one-coat painting solution. In the Speedpaint Starter Set you’ll find all the basic colours you need to begin painting beautiful tabletop-quality miniatures in no time. Simply apply one rich coat of Speedpaint directly over a primed miniature and you are done! "
https://shop.thearmypainter.com/us/wp8054p
All their own PR has stressed the "one coat" thing too. I know Contrast was marketed in the same way, but in reality even GW's own painting tutorials had it be used as just part of a combined approach much of time, but that doesn't mean this will go the same way.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/23 22:56:22


Post by: axotl


Also do people not realize that GW contrast also reactivates if you apply contrast medium to it? Same way as shown in goobertown's video for speed paints. I just realized while using it today.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/23 22:58:56


Post by: Azazelx


It's fine with regular acrylic hobby paint going over it, which is how I've been using the stuff since it came out and the main point of contention.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/23 23:02:25


Post by: warboss


That would suck if a varnish spray on top would somehow screw it up.

Has anyone done demos of metallic undercoats with speedpaints over it? I remember seeing those when contrast paints came up and I'm curious how metallic bits would look tinted with it.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 02:27:09


Post by: insaniak


 Azazelx wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

A local online discounter is selling Army Painter for $8AUD a pot or $75 for the pack of 10, and contrasts at the same discounter are $9.20AUD a pot. Cheaper, yeah, but it's not blowing my socks off and making me want to replace any contrasts I already use.

Which one is that if you don't mind me asking? PM is fine if you don't want to post it.

I pre-ordered through the Combat Company, who have it for that price. Still waiting on their stock, though, by the look of it.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 02:29:51


Post by: silent25


 warboss wrote:
That would suck if a varnish spray on top would somehow screw it up.

Has anyone done demos of metallic undercoats with speedpaints over it? I remember seeing those when contrast paints came up and I'm curious how metallic bits would look tinted with it.


In the first Goobertown video he shows multiple paint overs of a silver metallic.

Even with the reactivation issue, looking forward to several of these colors. Unlike Contrast though, this one doesn't look to be able to be used as much beyond what it says on the tin. Still, it does what is said it was supposed to do. Contrast help get a friend who hadn't painted in over 25 years pump out an army. So anything that helps people who hate to paint put out a well painted army has be to applauded.



Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 02:29:58


Post by: insaniak


 Gregor Samsa wrote:
Im really curious about what happened in the AP studio that a product could get so far into development with such a glaring issue. I guess they sunk the cash into the chemical formula and then realized once it was too late to turn back?

That, or they felt that the need to varnish over layers if you were applying anything on top, on a paint range that wasn't actually intended to have anything on top, was an acceptable compromise for smoother coverage on flat areas.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 02:57:30


Post by: Azreal13


Yeah, I think calling it "an issue" is pretty dubious, let alone a glaring one.

It's tough to argue it as a feature either, in fairness, as the messaging isn't coming from AP directly, but it would be very easy to spin this as "easily correct any errors with a wet brush, then give a coat of Army Painter Anti Shine Varnish once you're happy to lock the paint in place."



Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 03:08:18


Post by: Monkeysloth


This has placed these on the hold and wait pile for me as I do lots of layering with contrast/instant paints, regular paints and washes to get the look I want.

I also use brush on matte varnish as spray matte varnish messes with blends as has been mentioned.

Once they've been widely available for a few weeks to see how common it is (could just be not giving them enough of a dry time) with the varnish for example. But at the end of the day I'm happy with my current options and while I'm always interested in new tools but if the AP speed paints aren't for my needs that's fine.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 06:41:56


Post by: insaniak


 Azreal13 wrote:

It's tough to argue it as a feature either, in fairness, as the messaging isn't coming from AP directly, but it would be very easy to spin this as "easily correct any errors with a wet brush, then give a coat of Army Painter Anti Shine Varnish once you're happy to lock the paint in place."

Going by their comments on Twitter, the reactivation isn't specifically intended as a feature, but also isn't seen (by them) as a flaw, because they intended Speedpaint as a one-coat solution. It does what it was intended to do, and the reactivation is simply a side-effect of the specific medium they used to reduce pooling on flat surfaces.

The intended use of the product is to basecoat - apply speedpaint - spray on some varnish and you're done.



Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 08:12:49


Post by: NAVARRO


Isnt reactivation standard with oil painting? I mean calling that a flaw is probably incorrect.

Speed paints seem to do what they were intended to do and its up for painters to find ways to explore new possibilities that the medium brings to the table.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 08:38:54


Post by: tneva82


axotl wrote:
Also do people not realize that GW contrast also reactivates if you apply contrast medium to it? Same way as shown in goobertown's video for speed paints. I just realized while using it today.


But does it with water or other paints? Never for me.

It's less of issue if it reactivates with one specific thing you don't have to apply there. Why are you putting contrast medium to it in the first place? Unless you specifically want to reactivate it but then if there's way to specifically reactivate when you want while not reactivating when you don't want THAT'S useful.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 09:27:36


Post by: dan2026


When people say it 'reactivates' with varnish what do you mean?
As I put a top coat of matte varnish on all of my models.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 09:32:35


Post by: insaniak


Going by the reviews, brush on varnish can reactivate it. Sprays appear to be fine.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 12:13:03


Post by: Pacific


 insaniak wrote:
Going by the reviews, brush on varnish can reactivate it. Sprays appear to be fine.


Yes but that's not what the other video linked above says, and the guy explicitly shows it in the video

Jeez this is really difficult, there seems to be so much contradictory information, with one reviewer saying one thing and then one another.

I think really the only way is to get a couple of pots, use them on something that you don't care too much about, and then find out for yourself. At least, that's what I'll be doing.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 13:01:59


Post by: NAVARRO


 Pacific wrote:
 insaniak wrote:
Going by the reviews, brush on varnish can reactivate it. Sprays appear to be fine.


Yes but that's not what the other video linked above says, and the guy explicitly shows it in the video

Jeez this is really difficult, there seems to be so much contradictory information, with one reviewer saying one thing and then one another.

I think really the only way is to get a couple of pots, use them on something that you don't care too much about, and then find out for yourself. At least, that's what I'll be doing.


I agree.
Seems the best approach if you ask me. I mean everyone needs to check if it matches their personal painting style by themselves. The fact reviewers report different things does not help!


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 13:54:02


Post by: warboss


 silent25 wrote:

In the first Goobertown video he shows multiple paint overs of a silver metallic.



Thanks. I will take a look.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 13:56:58


Post by: stahly


 Pacific wrote:
 insaniak wrote:
Going by the reviews, brush on varnish can reactivate it. Sprays appear to be fine.


Yes but that's not what the other video linked above says, and the guy explicitly shows it in the video

Jeez this is really difficult, there seems to be so much contradictory information, with one reviewer saying one thing and then one another.

I think really the only way is to get a couple of pots, use them on something that you don't care too much about, and then find out for yourself. At least, that's what I'll be doing.


Or just watch my video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB4_16Fr7-M


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 13:58:32


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 NAVARRO wrote:
Isnt reactivation standard with oil painting? I mean calling that a flaw is probably incorrect.


I'd say many people would describe that as a flaw in oils *specifically* in the context of painting wargaming models. For most wargamers, they either don't use oils or only use oil washes at least in part because of that "flaw".

Maybe if it's really easily reactivated then some people will start using it like an enamel or oil wash, though I think that'll be an edge case rather than a typical usage.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 insaniak wrote:
The intended use of the product is to basecoat - apply speedpaint - spray on some varnish and you're done.


But anyone who has experience with contrasts will realise that the "speed paint" technique is one where you don't always try and paint within the lines. Say you want to paint the 3D wing emblem on your Space Marine's shoulder pad a different colour to the rest of the pad, you don't spend ages carefully painting around it so as to not get paint on it, you just paint over the emblem and then repaint it because if you spend too much time carefully working your way around it you're more likely to make a mess of the contrast and it's more time consuming.

Then you have usages like wanting to give it a 2nd coat to make it darker / more vibrant, using multiple layers of different colours to create more visual interest, or coming back with washes to darken the crevices more.

The "it's ONLY intended to be a topcoat" thing doesn't fly with me, whether you're painting within the intended "speed" parameter or you're using it for more advanced techniques, you want to be able to paint over it, and if you can't do that without an extra coat of varnish it's a pretty significant drawback.

If the reactivation thing means you can fix tide marks and patches afterwards, maybe that'll be a pro that outweighs the con, but I think that's being a bit hopeful because *usually* it's more of a challenge to manipulate reactivated paint without just making more of a mess.





Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 14:29:27


Post by: Gregor Samsa


Great news!

Army Painter Twitter account has responded and shown that reactivating is a cause of very slow cure time. Both AP and Juan Hidalgo have reported that given enough time to dry, the paint does eventually cure and seal as a basecoat.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 14:32:08


Post by: Pacific


 stahly wrote:
 Pacific wrote:
 insaniak wrote:
Going by the reviews, brush on varnish can reactivate it. Sprays appear to be fine.


Yes but that's not what the other video linked above says, and the guy explicitly shows it in the video

Jeez this is really difficult, there seems to be so much contradictory information, with one reviewer saying one thing and then one another.

I think really the only way is to get a couple of pots, use them on something that you don't care too much about, and then find out for yourself. At least, that's what I'll be doing.


Or just watch my video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB4_16Fr7-M


Thanks that was a really interesting video to watch, very informative and I liked the examples of the colours.

I had one more question to ask about varnishing, if you would be so kind! Can I ask which varnish you used when it re-activated, was it a spray or brush-on? I was hoping to use these for a very simple job - zenithal shading, then one coat of speed paint, then varnish. So the varnishing not ruining it (as I will be using these as playing pieces) is a real deal breaker for me.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 14:42:17


Post by: Ian Sturrock


 Gregor Samsa wrote:
Great news!

Army Painter Twitter account has responded and shown that reactivating is a cause of very slow cure time. Both AP and Juan Hidalgo have reported that given enough time to dry, the paint does eventually cure and seal as a basecoat.


That is great news, although it does reduce the utility of the product as an, uh, speed paint. So as long as they don't want us to use this for, ya know, painting speedily, it is fine.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 14:48:02


Post by: Garfield666


That's good news... I guess. But how long are we talking? If its three days then ok, I can work around that. If it is three weeks then this is still very flawed...
Maybe AP already has a special Speedpaint varnish in the pipeline


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 15:32:11


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 Gregor Samsa wrote:
Great news!

Army Painter Twitter account has responded and shown that reactivating is a cause of very slow cure time. Both AP and Juan Hidalgo have reported that given enough time to dry, the paint does eventually cure and seal as a basecoat.


How long are we talking? Hidalgo said in his original review they were reactivating after a hairdryer and 2 days... so are we talking a week or something for them to fully cure?


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 16:28:44


Post by: Tannhauser42


Yeah, didn't Stahly wait 24 hours for his testing, too?
i know environmental factors are always a, well, factor (humidity, temperature, etc.), but how long is long enough and when does it become too long to wait?


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 16:33:39


Post by: Pacific


Yes Stahly commented that he waited 24hrs in his video.

This feels like we are going back to the days of the ol' Humbrol enamels, that you had to wait for several days to dry and then you had a thin layer of dust on top when they finally did


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 16:59:38


Post by: Valander


 NAVARRO wrote:
Isnt reactivation standard with oil painting?

Not really. If you let the oils "dry" completely (8-12 hours), you can go back on top of them with more oils without reactivating. Now, sure, if you soak the thing in mineral spirits, it may reactivate some, but that isn't really how you typically use them.

I've been doing 100% oil painting lately, following James Wappel's method, and even pinline washes later on don't reactivate the way these seem to with just more wet paint.

Though, I have no first hand experience with the Speedpaints; just going off what those videos and various reddit, etc. posts say. I don't plan on picking them up because I'm pretty much switching to exclusively oil paints.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 18:34:57


Post by: Monkeysloth


 NAVARRO wrote:
Isnt reactivation standard with oil painting? I mean calling that a flaw is probably incorrect.


Oil paints don't truly dry, not in a way that water based paints do so it's not a real comparison.


The linseed oil and pigments oxidize (react with oxygen) and harden, but the oil has a low enough vapor pressure that it doesn't appreciably evaporate. Cross-linking occurs between the relatively small oil molecules, essentially forming a plastic. This isn't really 'drying' since you don't have water evaporating off. Most of the hardening takes place in the first few hours/days/months after the paint has been deposited, but the process never really stops.


Water based paints, when the reactivate, rarely do so cleanly meaning you'll have parts that just done and some that only partially do. It's also uncommon for reactivated water based pants to be workable after reactivation and it's generally only good for removing paint.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 18:39:33


Post by: Albertorius


Ok, used for a full (small) squad "as intended", without anything except speed paints and a bit of cenital priming:



So far I'm happy enough, for what it is. I'd probably seal them now and add highlights and stuff.

That said, they mostly feel like a bit denser inks that stain heavier the recesses, I don't see nearly as much "edge highlights" as contrast paints leave, but they seem to dry much cleaner on flat surfaces.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 22:56:11


Post by: Gallahad


Dude, those look really good. Much better result on flat surfaces.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/24 23:54:30


Post by: Ghaz


AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Gregor Samsa wrote:
Great news!

Army Painter Twitter account has responded and shown that reactivating is a cause of very slow cure time. Both AP and Juan Hidalgo have reported that given enough time to dry, the paint does eventually cure and seal as a basecoat.


How long are we talking? Hidalgo said in his original review they were reactivating after a hairdryer and 2 days... so are we talking a week or something for them to fully cure?

You should find your answers HERE on Army Painter's twitter.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 01:06:27


Post by: Azazelx


 insaniak wrote:
 Azazelx wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

A local online discounter is selling Army Painter for $8AUD a pot or $75 for the pack of 10, and contrasts at the same discounter are $9.20AUD a pot. Cheaper, yeah, but it's not blowing my socks off and making me want to replace any contrasts I already use.

Which one is that if you don't mind me asking? PM is fine if you don't want to post it.

I pre-ordered through the Combat Company, who have it for that price. Still waiting on their stock, though, by the look of it.


Oh, I was more interested in restocking Contrast at that price.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 insaniak wrote:
 Gregor Samsa wrote:
Im really curious about what happened in the AP studio that a product could get so far into development with such a glaring issue. I guess they sunk the cash into the chemical formula and then realized once it was too late to turn back?

That, or they felt that the need to varnish over layers if you were applying anything on top, on a paint range that wasn't actually intended to have anything on top, was an acceptable compromise for smoother coverage on flat areas.


...and not telling anyone about the reactivation issue in their media blitz with an army of clearly-compromised YouTubers reviewing them...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Azreal13 wrote:
Yeah, I think calling it "an issue" is pretty dubious, let alone a glaring one.
It's tough to argue it as a feature either, in fairness, as the messaging isn't coming from AP directly, but it would be very easy to spin this as "easily correct any errors with a wet brush, then give a coat of Army Painter Anti Shine Varnish once you're happy to lock the paint in place."


Well, you're objectively wrong there. if they'd mentioned that it was a thing then it'd be simple, straightforward, no nasty surprises. Since they're not doing so and it's not sold with a caveat of "don't paint over it" then it's an issue, and anyone arguing otherwise are the ones making dubious statements.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 02:06:59


Post by: insaniak


 Azazelx wrote:

Oh, I was more interested in restocking Contrast at that price.

Yup, still the Combat Company, then


...and not telling anyone about the reactivation issue in their media blitz with an army of clearly-compromised YouTubers reviewing them...

Meh, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it was just something that hadn't come up during their own testing, since it seems to be something of a condition-dependent issue. Particularly if their own testing was focused specifically on using them as a one-coat solution, or the painting conditions in their office meant it hadn't shown up.


Well, you're objectively wrong there. if they'd mentioned that it was a thing then it'd be simple, straightforward, no nasty surprises. Since they're not doing so and it's not sold with a caveat of "don't paint over it" then it's an issue, and anyone arguing otherwise are the ones making dubious statements.

It is, however, marketed specifically as a one coat solution. They don't say 'Don't paint over it' for the same reason Nike don't print 'Not to be worn on your ears' on their shoeboxes. It's simply not what the product is intended for.

Don't get me wrong, it certainly would have been nice for the reactivation thing to have been mentioned up front, I just don't think we have enough information to know whether it was a deliberate omission, not considered relevant, or just not something they had encountered until the paint started appearing in the wild.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 03:23:32


Post by: Ghool


All I have to ask about a glaring issue of the paint reactivating is one thing:

Who paints minis without touching an already painted area by mistake or accident?

All it takes is a single mistake or paint on an already painted area to notice this.
If they went through a whole product trial run without seeing this major flaw, their honesty seems dubious at best.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 03:37:09


Post by: insaniak


From what's being said, the reactivation is down to how well cured the paint is, which is going to vary depending on temperature, humidity, and the amount of paint applied. Also potentially on the basecoat, as different base surfaces can affect how paint dries.

So it doesn't seem that unlikely that they tested these in house and never encountered the reactivation issue because their office didn't have the particular conditions that trigger it.

I'd be curious to see how much difference there is using AP basecoats as opposed to other brands of spray - AP did mention on twitter that they tested these with their own sprays. Some sprays take a long time to cure properly, and it's possible that painting these over an improperly cured basecoat could cause problems. I've had that problem with terrain basecoated with regular spray paints, where model acrylics drybrushed on didn't dry properly because the basecoat wasn't fully cured.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 04:44:03


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 Ghaz wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Gregor Samsa wrote:
Great news!

Army Painter Twitter account has responded and shown that reactivating is a cause of very slow cure time. Both AP and Juan Hidalgo have reported that given enough time to dry, the paint does eventually cure and seal as a basecoat.


How long are we talking? Hidalgo said in his original review they were reactivating after a hairdryer and 2 days... so are we talking a week or something for them to fully cure?

You should find your answers HERE on Army Painter's twitter.


So he painted it on Monday (21st) and posted that 3 days later? So we assume probably somewhere between 2 and 3 days cure time?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 insaniak wrote:
It is, however, marketed specifically as a one coat solution. They don't say 'Don't paint over it' for the same reason Nike don't print 'Not to be worn on your ears' on their shoeboxes. It's simply not what the product is intended for.


That's just BS to me, unless you're painting single colour models there's always going to be times when you want to paint over it. I gave an example in my last post specific to the concept of speed painting, if you have an detailed emblem that's a different colour you don't pissfart around trying to stay within the lines, you just paint over it then repaint it, otherwise you create a bigger mess over working the paint while trying to stay within the lines.

Stahly's review gave a similar situation, where painting a Space Marine's main colour you'll inevitably get some on the rubber-looking joins between the armour plates that needs to be touched up before moving on.

These are not some edge cases or using the paints in an unintended way, that's how people have been using contrast paints from day 1 and to assume people wouldn't use speed paints in the same way would imply they did zero product testing to realise that's how people paint.



Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 06:11:17


Post by: hotsauceman1


Still going to get these but use them like I originally thinking of more through and airbrush.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 06:48:52


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Still going to get these but use them like I originally thinking of more through and airbrush.


A lot of people like contrasts through an airbrush and I think these will be similar.

That said, I'm more interested in trying artists acrylic inks through my airbrush than speed paints.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 08:44:50


Post by: NAVARRO


I get the impression that there's something on the formula that is making this behave like an enamel or something similar where it flows amazingly well, high pigment covering flat areas with no ugly "join marks' of pools and extensive curing time.

We will never know the formula though.

Different reviewers experienced different things depending on their conditions and style use of paint. Dropping a chunk of water on top of paint on a horizontal area is also different from vertical small detailed minis that will never have that much water on top due to gravity etc...

What Im saying I dont think reviewers are compromised or that is there anything here more than this is a new hybrid formula.

Theres today oils paints water based this may well be that too.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 10:25:35


Post by: Albertorius


Ok, another quick color test... I fething love the red, it looks gorgeous:




As I'm trying stuff out, I took the fifth mini of the squad and right after this I repainted the grey areas over with metal. then I added water to the purple and washed over the metal parts with it, plus some chest and legs panel lines and the whole head, to see how it would react. I also painted the chestpiece gold and then used brown speed paint over it:




I had no reactivation issues for this, and it behaved pretty ok. I'm gonna varnish them afterwards.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 10:47:13


Post by: deano2099


AllSeeingSkink wrote:


The "it's ONLY intended to be a topcoat" thing doesn't fly with me, whether you're painting within the intended "speed" parameter or you're using it for more advanced techniques, you want to be able to paint over it, and if you can't do that without an extra coat of varnish it's a pretty significant drawback.



This is Army Painter though. As much as Citadel get crap for pushing their own base/shade/layer technique ahead of anything else, AP also do the same thing. For the best part of a decade the Army Painter "method" was "base coat your models, dip them in Quickshade and you are done". The very point of Quickshade was that it was both a shade and a varnish in one, so it'd protect your paint job at the same time as shading it. Could you paint on top of it? Well sure, but at that point you might as well use a wash instead. There were Army Painter booklets that addressed one of the issues mentioned here: "what if I get the colours slightly wrong or go outside the lines" - they literally said "doesn't really matter, after the Quickshade you probably won't notice". Painting delicate symbols? Don't bother. Again, their primary market is still historical wargamers, they're trying to provide quick ways of getting armies with 100s of identical figures painted.

Yeah it'd be nice if it were different but this sort of thing completely fits the Army Painter approach that we've seen in the past. Cheap and gets the job done. I'm very much not surprised that Army Painter weren't able to produce a paint that's superior to Contrast and every other similar paint at a cheaper price. It's not really their thing.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 11:15:06


Post by: Pacific


Yep that's very true. I guess different people are going to want different things from this. I was hoping for a quick way to batch paint some rank and file. That these are apparently better with flat surfaces is a great advantage. The re-activation with varnish is a deal-breaker for me though, so I'll get a few pots and just try them. Otherwise will just have to use Contrast.

The other side is people that are using them at a much higher level, mixing them as glazing, using with oils and stuff like that. So it's almost like you need separate reviews for how the product performs in each circumstance, as its quite likely hobbyists just want one approach or the other.

Azazelx - that gets the scurillous comment of the thread award lol!


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 11:21:10


Post by: Albertorius


Well, the spray varnish at least doesn't seem to have had any adverse effect on the yellow/orange drones, so that's good


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 11:46:03


Post by: NAVARRO


Those reds look so vivid and good Albertorius.

One coat does that? yikes thats nice I must say.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 11:49:33


Post by: Albertorius


 NAVARRO wrote:
Those reds look so vivid and good Albertorius.

One coat does that? yikes thats nice I must say.


Yeah, the only one I touched up after is the single with the metals: on that i added a bit of thinned purple in some recesses of the red armor.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 11:51:56


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 Albertorius wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
Those reds look so vivid and good Albertorius.

One coat does that? yikes thats nice I must say.


Yeah, the only one I touched up after is the single with the metals: on that i added a bit of thinned purple in some recesses of the red armor.


I was going to say it looks like your shades are deeper/darker than you'd get out of the pot, that probably helps the vibrancy of the red by increasing the separation from the crevices to the main surfaces.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 12:44:03


Post by: Albertorius


AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
Those reds look so vivid and good Albertorius.

One coat does that? yikes thats nice I must say.


Yeah, the only one I touched up after is the single with the metals: on that i added a bit of thinned purple in some recesses of the red armor.


I was going to say it looks like your shades are deeper/darker than you'd get out of the pot, that probably helps the vibrancy of the red by increasing the separation from the crevices to the main surfaces.


Oh yeah, in person it's pretty evident.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 13:44:09


Post by: ekwatts


They look good. Cost difference between this and contrast is negligible to me. Some of the colours are definitely nicer, with the usual variations you'd expect in coverage and viscosity when compared to other paint ranges.

I've been painting for years, so reactivation isn't a new thing to me, and I can deal with it.

I imagine for younger or less experienced painters, this is an issue, so I understand how this can be seen as a pretty major issue but for more experienced painters like myself, and, I imagine, many others here, it's surmountable. And not entirely worthy of debate much beyond that.

That's about it, I guess.



Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 14:35:04


Post by: Pacific


 Albertorius wrote:
Well, the spray varnish at least doesn't seem to have had any adverse effect on the yellow/orange drones, so that's good


Excellent that's what I was hoping to hear - thanks mate!


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 14:37:30


Post by: Garfield666


Sooo...
I painted some WF Cannon Fodder with their orange jumpsuits on monday. Painted the backpanel white with Vallejo the same evening - reactivated in an orange mess.
Today (friday), painted over the area again in white - reactivated almost instantly.
So I don't really believe their excuses. This is either flawed or deliberately swept under the (marketing) rug.
Don't get me wrong - the colour feels good to paint and the results are nice. But only being able to paint over it with very dark colours severely limits the usefullness for me.
Without the reactivating issue, I would rate these as amazing colours in their own right.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 18:57:42


Post by: Ghaz


The '5 Best Practices for Speedpaint' was just posted and (briefly) mentions the reactivation issues:




Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 19:21:19


Post by: Azazelx


 insaniak wrote:
 Azazelx wrote:

Oh, I was more interested in restocking Contrast at that price.

Yup, still the Combat Company, then

Cheers for that!


...and not telling anyone about the reactivation issue in their media blitz with an army of clearly-compromised YouTubers reviewing them...

Meh, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it was just something that hadn't come up during their own testing, since it seems to be something of a condition-dependent issue. Particularly if their own testing was focused specifically on using them as a one-coat solution, or the painting conditions in their office meant it hadn't shown up.



We'll have to agree to disagree on that - at least in part. A few too many glowing BETTAR THAN CONTRAST!!!!one! videos. I'm not suggesting that the YTers are paid or bribed, but free advance review copies can compromise people who are reliant on the format for clicks for their full time income.


Well, you're objectively wrong there. if they'd mentioned that it was a thing then it'd be simple, straightforward, no nasty surprises. Since they're not doing so and it's not sold with a caveat of "don't paint over it" then it's an issue, and anyone arguing otherwise are the ones making dubious statements.

It is, however, marketed specifically as a one coat solution. They don't say 'Don't paint over it' for the same reason Nike don't print 'Not to be worn on your ears' on their shoeboxes. It's simply not what the product is intended for.

Don't get me wrong, it certainly would have been nice for the reactivation thing to have been mentioned up front, I just don't think we have enough information to know whether it was a deliberate omission, not considered relevant, or just not something they had encountered until the paint started appearing in the wild.


I think you're being overly-generous there. Painting over some other paints is hardly analogous to wearing shoes on your head or something that's just not done.
I'll use an example that's not only extreme, but more analogous in the underlying philosopy. I think it's more like manufacturers of autos deciding not to do a recall since it'd cost them more to recall the cars than to deal with the (relatively) few times that the cars have a critical fail...

Or to put it another way - sunk R&D costs, works "well enough", only found the flaw late in testing once production was set up, minimum viable product, etc.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ekwatts wrote:
They look good. Cost difference between this and contrast is negligible to me. Some of the colours are definitely nicer, with the usual variations you'd expect in coverage and viscosity when compared to other paint ranges.
I've been painting for years, so reactivation isn't a new thing to me, and I can deal with it.
I imagine for younger or less experienced painters, this is an issue, so I understand how this can be seen as a pretty major issue but for more experienced painters like myself, and, I imagine, many others here, it's surmountable. And not entirely worthy of debate much beyond that.
That's about it, I guess.



I've (probably) been painting for longer than you've been alive. I would suggest it depends not on time spent painting, but on how you use the paints and how much extra work you want to do to get around the issues. Little to do with how "experienced" you are, and clearly worthy of debate since the debate is happening regardless of your "FIGJAM" post.

- edit - goddamn quote tags!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Pacific wrote:
Yep that's very true. I guess different people are going to want different things from this. I was hoping for a quick way to batch paint some rank and file. That these are apparently better with flat surfaces is a great advantage. The re-activation with varnish is a deal-breaker for me though, so I'll get a few pots and just try them. Otherwise will just have to use Contrast.
The other side is people that are using them at a much higher level, mixing them as glazing, using with oils and stuff like that. So it's almost like you need separate reviews for how the product performs in each circumstance, as its quite likely hobbyists just want one approach or the other.
Azazelx - that gets the scurillous comment of the thread award lol!


I hope so!
More seriously, my issue is about AP (not) being upfront with the information about reactivation before release. Now they're doing some damage control and mentioning it, which is fine - and certainly better than not at all, but they should have been upfront. Can't miss out on those pre-orders to push the restocks, I guess.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 19:47:48


Post by: Monkeysloth


 Ghaz wrote:
The '5 Best Practices for Speedpaint' was just posted and (briefly) mentions the reactivation issues:




I came to post this. They mention spray varnishing (can or airbrush) before adding more layers.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/02/25 20:14:03


Post by: hotsauceman1


AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Still going to get these but use them like I originally thinking of more through and airbrush.


A lot of people like contrasts through an airbrush and I think these will be similar.

That said, I'm more interested in trying artists acrylic inks through my airbrush than speed paints.

My problem is inks tend to be less available to me.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/01 17:49:20


Post by: Shadow Walker





Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/01 18:39:36


Post by: frankelee


I have a feeling the specifics of why the Speed Paints don't always behave themselves will be sussed out before too long. People do some many different things when painting models, they use primers they get from hardware stores, they use gloss undercoats, all kinds of different stuff than Army Painter might have done during testing.

Not to mention men's incredible capability for not reading the instructions and then blaming everyone else when they get a bad result. This is why every varnish, no matter how good, has bad reviews all over the internet. Every day, somewhere on the Earth, somebody walks outside in 90 degree heat and 102% relative humidity, holds his model 2" from the can nozzle, and sprays for a count of 27 elephants, then gets mad at the company for making a bad product.

I doubt anybody got lied to here, it's a new product, they haven't had the chance to test all the possibilities (or thought of them all).


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/01 19:46:34


Post by: NAVARRO


I stoped watching the video when he started ' Im possible the most qualified person" remark Dont know the guy and dont want to


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/02 01:33:31


Post by: themonk


I REALLY wanted to believe in this product and had actually pre-ordered (and cancelled) the mega set. The results look as good as Contrast in many cases. However, I make mistakes. If I can't apply a small amount of basecoat over the Speed Paint (after a similar drying period as Contrast) without reactivation then it will simply not work for me. It's not a "speed" solution if I must apply varnish before touch-ups. I hope it gets fixed.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/02 01:45:11


Post by: Arschbombe


 NAVARRO wrote:
I stoped watching the video when he started ' Im possible the most qualified person" remark Dont know the guy and dont want to


It's a joke. In the very next sentence he talks about how he's colorblind and hates painting.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/02 02:25:58


Post by: Azazelx


 hotsauceman1 wrote:

My problem is inks tend to be less available to me.


I got my inks through the post. From the US. To Australia. This was before Amazon was available to me.

They're available, if you want them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 frankelee wrote:

(mega snip)
I doubt anybody got lied to here, it's a new product, they haven't had the chance to test all the possibilities (or thought of them all).


Most of the stuff you wrote reads like a strawman argument. I think the AP Speedpaints do look good - the coverage looks smooth and great. I'd gladly buy the mega set without a second thought - and was going to - but the reactivaton makes them a no-use-to-me product.

Suggesting that nobody, not the YTers nor AP themselves had any awareness of it before stahly came along is ...disingenious at best.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 NAVARRO wrote:
I stoped watching the video when he started ' Im possible the most qualified person" remark Dont know the guy and dont want to


I stopped right after that when he said "I use them how most people do". Anyone who presumes that they speak for "most people" doesn't work for me.
"Many", fine.
"Most". Nope, you lost me, mate.



Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/02 03:19:12


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 frankelee wrote:
I have a feeling the specifics of why the Speed Paints don't always behave themselves will be sussed out before too long. People do some many different things when painting models, they use primers they get from hardware stores, they use gloss undercoats, all kinds of different stuff than Army Painter might have done during testing.

Not to mention men's incredible capability for not reading the instructions and then blaming everyone else when they get a bad result. This is why every varnish, no matter how good, has bad reviews all over the internet. Every day, somewhere on the Earth, somebody walks outside in 90 degree heat and 102% relative humidity, holds his model 2" from the can nozzle, and sprays for a count of 27 elephants, then gets mad at the company for making a bad product.

I doubt anybody got lied to here, it's a new product, they haven't had the chance to test all the possibilities (or thought of them all).


Several of the reviewers have given very detailed descriptions of the variables which eventually led to reactivation, and none of it jumped out of me as particularly odd.

We're not talking about some edge cases of randoms on reddit who give no description of how they've used it, it's been reviewers with demonstrated capability in how to paint a model using well described methods that are typical of most*** people.


***Sorry Azazelx, I had to do it after your comment


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/02 04:29:45


Post by: frankelee


Yeah, and plenty have said they used it and it worked fine. Guess it must be a conspiracy.

If a person wants to be aggrieved, they'll find a way to be aggrieved, facts be damned.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/02 05:26:35


Post by: privateer4hire


On the prices, I wonder what individual bottles will cost. It’s $4.16/bottle of speed paint if you pay full price for the big set.

Compared to $7.80/contrast bottle, speed paint costs a little more than half. Not sure if there’s a discount baked in to the whopper set, though.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/02 05:57:03


Post by: insaniak


A local e-tailer has them listed for AU$8 a pot ($13.99 RRP), and Contrasts are AU$9.20 ($11.50 RRP)

Wayland Games has SP for £3.36 (£3.75 RRP), and Contrast for £4.01 (£4.75 RRP)

Miniature Market has SP for $3.89 (RRP $4.50), and Contrast for $6.99 (RRP $7.80)


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/02 09:31:05


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 frankelee wrote:
Yeah, and plenty have said they used it and it worked fine. Guess it must be a conspiracy.


Or maybe those people who said it worked fine didn't test it thoroughly enough, or maybe the product range is inconsistent and some reviewers got a worse sample than others, or maybe AP have updated their formula as time has gone on.

If a person wants to be aggrieved, they'll find a way to be aggrieved, facts be damned.


That's an absurd position to take on a demonstrable flaw. It's as absurd as saying "no matter how much a product sucks some fanboys will still champion it".

If you don't personally care about the flaw, that's fine, but it's a bit silly to pretend the flaw doesn't exist or arises from product misuse when the reviews that have shown the flaw are rather comprehensive in their description on how they used the product.

I'll still probably buy a couple to test them for myself, but I'm less interested in buying the big pack of them and given the price difference in Oz isn't terribly significant, I'm not jumping over myself to swap from my contrast paints.



Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/02 10:06:54


Post by: Pacific


 frankelee wrote:

Not to mention men's incredible capability for not reading the instructions and then blaming everyone else when they get a bad result. This is why every varnish, no matter how good, has bad reviews all over the internet. Every day, somewhere on the Earth, somebody walks outside in 90 degree heat and 102% relative humidity, holds his model 2" from the can nozzle, and sprays for a count of 27 elephants, then gets mad at the company for making a bad product.
.


That really made me chuckle


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/02 11:13:26


Post by: deano2099


 frankelee wrote:
Yeah, and plenty have said they used it and it worked fine.

Have they though? All the positive review videos I've seen have been people painting the figure entirely with SpeedPaint with the marketed one layer approach, and doing various plastic swatches that show how it looks compared to Contrast over different undercoats.

I've not seen any videos of someone using it then layering on top that hasn't pointed out the reactivation issue. Happy to admit I'm wrong on this, I've certainly not watched and read every review, but I've watched quite a few and at no point have I seen someone use it in a way that would apparently cause it to reactivate, and have no problems. But if those videos are out there I'd happily be pointed in the right direction - would be a good thing if it's less of an issue that we thought.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/02 11:33:19


Post by: StraightSilver


I think the issue here is essentially comparing the 2 products as if they were the same.

Speed Paints aren't Army Painter's version of Contrast, they are just Army Painter Speed Paints.

They do exactly what they are advertised to do, which is paint minis quickly whilst adding a base and shade colour.

Citadel's Contrast paints do that too, but also do lots of other things that Speed paints don't, such as glazing and being able to layer over etc.

If you just want to base and shade models quickly and then do nothing more with them, go for Speed Paints.

If you want to do other things, go for Contrast.

It's not quite comparing apples and oranges, but kinda lemons and limes. Sort of....


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/02 12:21:38


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


StraightSilver wrote:
If you just want to base and shade models quickly and then do nothing more with them, go for Speed Paints.

If you want to do other things, go for Contrast.

It's not quite comparing apples and oranges, but kinda lemons and limes. Sort of....


I appreciate your argument that they're "meant" for different things, but it's the ability to use contrasts for a broad range of tasks that is what gives them value IMO.

But even in the context of "speed paint" sometimes you accidentally slop some paint on the wrong area (or sometimes intentionally slop some paint on the wrong area) and you want to touch it up before you move on.

Another one is if you want to spent a just a minute extra on a model to take it to a slightly higher standard, sometimes you want to lay a wash over a speed paint for some added depth. Speed paints / Contrasts are monochrome, and we know to add visual interest it can be good to add a touch of complimentary colour, so adding a different colour just locally into a crevice here and there can make the model pop a lot more and add a lot more depth and contrast. It's a very minor addition in terms of how long it takes to paint a model (still firmly in the "speed" category) but adds a lot to the model.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/02 12:25:19


Post by: Albertorius


For the moment the main use case seems to be to block the main colors of a mini without the need for extra shadows and highlights, and so far it does it pretty well, with (in my experience) a cleaner result than contrast paints and a more homogenous result along the range, but also with less marked highlights than what you can get with a layer of contrast paint.

As far as that goes it does it pretty well, and if you then seal that (just to make absolutely sure there's no bleeding) you can then continue with anything else. If I'm painting armies or units, for which I'll be batch painting, it doesn't seem to be an issue.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/02 12:44:19


Post by: scarletsquig


I'm going to give them a try, I'll be painting an eldar army soon and that's going to involve a lot of flatter smoother surfaces where the speedpaint might work better than contrast.

All I want is to get a good colour scheme going where primer > contrast/speedpaint > edge highlight works properly as a 3-stage process, at the moment contrast is just too "blobby" unless diluted to work on smooth surfaces, but if diluted loses its intensity. They're great paints, but overall the highlights are too bright and often just let the entire underlying colour through, with the exception of some awesome colours like iyanden yellow which gives perfect smooth yellow surfaces and orange in the recesses.

I might need to take a second look at glazes to get the results I want over contrast if speedpaint doesn't work out. Something like dilute flesh tearers + primary red glaze might give me the smooth result I need.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/02 20:46:20


Post by: Azazelx


 frankelee wrote:
Yeah, and plenty have said they used it and it worked fine. Guess it must be a conspiracy.

If a person wants to be aggrieved, they'll find a way to be aggrieved, facts be damned.


Odd how this is like an issue of faith to you.
Here's an idea - go buy some, use them, enjoy them, and if they reactivate while you're using them either post in this thread about how you weren't 100% correct or pretend it didnt happen because people can't be wrong or change their mind on the internet.

--------------------------------

Here's a series of blog posts from a mate of mine for anyone interested in a regular hobbyist trying them out over a few (continuing) sessions:

Starting with this one, then "next post" your way through.
https://bogenwald.blog/2022/02/22/test-run-with-new-paints/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
scarletsquig wrote:
I'm going to give them a try, I'll be painting an eldar army soon and that's going to involve a lot of flatter smoother surfaces where the speedpaint might work better than contrast.
All I want is to get a good colour scheme going where primer > contrast/speedpaint > edge highlight works properly as a 3-stage process,


It'll probably work fine for that, as long as you let them dry for (??) days and then spray varnish before adding edge highlights or doing any form of touchup or detail (gems, eyes).


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/02 21:02:29


Post by: warboss


 Albertorius wrote:
Ok, another quick color test... I fething love the red, it looks gorgeous:

Spoiler:



As I'm trying stuff out, I took the fifth mini of the squad and right after this I repainted the grey areas over with metal. then I added water to the purple and washed over the metal parts with it, plus some chest and legs panel lines and the whole head, to see how it would react. I also painted the chestpiece gold and then used brown speed paint over it:

Spoiler:



I had no reactivation issues for this, and it behaved pretty ok. I'm gonna varnish them afterwards.


Looks good! Did you do a two step prime? It's hard to tell if you started with black and then xenithal white oversprayed or if that's just the nature plastic color of the bases coming through. I've seen recommendations to do the two step/color prime for added depth.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/02 22:24:06


Post by: Garfield666


Okay, after three coats of Vallejo Model Colour white, it still bleeds through. Applied the three coats on the same area after one, four and ten days.
So, just wait a bit and it doesn't reactivate... yeah, that wasn't true really...
Shame.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/02 23:14:48


Post by: Albertorius


 warboss wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
Ok, another quick color test... I fething love the red, it looks gorgeous:

Spoiler:



As I'm trying stuff out, I took the fifth mini of the squad and right after this I repainted the grey areas over with metal. then I added water to the purple and washed over the metal parts with it, plus some chest and legs panel lines and the whole head, to see how it would react. I also painted the chestpiece gold and then used brown speed paint over it:

Spoiler:



I had no reactivation issues for this, and it behaved pretty ok. I'm gonna varnish them afterwards.


Looks good! Did you do a two step prime? It's hard to tell if you started with black and then xenithal white oversprayed or if that's just the nature plastic color of the bases coming through. I've seen recommendations to do the two step/color prime for added depth.


Yeah, I usually do a zenithal priming with black and white sprays whenever I want to use contrasts, so I used the same method.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/02 23:17:52


Post by: warboss


Cool and thanks. Also, now I know how to spell zenithal correctly.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/02 23:41:17


Post by: Dendarien


One of the Army Painter reps is on stream somewhere saying that the people with reactivation issues all used primers with a more gloss finish. Not sure how true or universal it is, but there you go.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/03 00:24:32


Post by: Azazelx


 Garfield666 wrote:
Okay, after three coats of Vallejo Model Colour white, it still bleeds through. Applied the three coats on the same area after one, four and ten days.
So, just wait a bit and it doesn't reactivate... yeah, that wasn't true really...
Shame.


It's totally your fault for not using the paints "correctly".

Apparently.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dendarien wrote:
One of the Army Painter reps is on stream somewhere saying that the people with reactivation issues all used primers with a more gloss finish. Not sure how true or universal it is, but there you go.


So is the next step to tell hobbyists and painters that they need to use only Army Painter products in order to use these paints "correctly"? Because they never explicitly said that we can use GW or Vallejo or AK or hardware store or auto primers?


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/03 00:29:53


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


 Dendarien wrote:
One of the Army Painter reps is on stream somewhere saying that the people with reactivation issues all used primers with a more gloss finish. Not sure how true or universal it is, but there you go.


Sounds like damage control to me.

I think one of the folks said they were using Corax White spray. I've not used Corax White spray, but isn't it more on the matte side?

EDIT: Yeah, Stahly's review used Corax White.

You also have an Army Painter representative several days ago replying to Juan Hidalgo's video saying that reactivation is intentional and you need to varnish between coats.





Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/03 08:22:55


Post by: NAVARRO


I don't think its intentional I think its a side effect of the smooth coverage of pigment on a flat surface.
The formula visually works for its intended purposes but to expand into other techniques you will need a different approach to the traditional acrylics.

I think the inks can be used but just differently so painters will need to adjust to it not the other way around.

If you like the tones give it a go on a few pots and try them out, you may like them or not.

Reviews are useful only to a certain point because with these things you really need to try it yourself.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/03 11:30:50


Post by: Shadow Walker





Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/03 11:43:33


Post by: Garfield666


 Azazelx wrote:
 Garfield666 wrote:
Okay, after three coats of Vallejo Model Colour white, it still bleeds through. Applied the three coats on the same area after one, four and ten days.
So, just wait a bit and it doesn't reactivate... yeah, that wasn't true really...
Shame.


It's totally your fault for not using the paints "correctly".

Apparently.


Well, I did indeed not use any army painter primer, which would be ridiculous as it is not that good and quite expensive...
What I used was what is called "Haftgrund" in geman... White and matt. It's only purpose is having paint adhere to it better, it is pretty much the primer of primers. Maybe it was the mooncycle or the wrong star constellation or my brand of brush...
Dang... I like Armypainter products and these have many merrits, but please skip on the excuses and refine your formular. Then we'd have a winner here.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/03 12:05:55


Post by: deano2099


 Garfield666 wrote:

Dang... I like Armypainter products and these have many merrits, but please skip on the excuses and refine your formular. Then we'd have a winner here.


I'd put money on the thing that causes them to reactivate being the same thing that makes them cover smoother than Contrast. I mean, these things paint marine power armor far better than Contrast does in one coat. I don't believe for a minute that Citadel hadn't tried and junked something similar to the Speed Paint formula when they were working on Contrast for this very reason. And this is Army Painter, they're the cheap and cheerful mini-painting alternative. I think if there were some way to refine the formula, one of them would have done it.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/03 12:09:13


Post by: Wha-Mu-077


deano2099 wrote:
 Garfield666 wrote:

Dang... I like Armypainter products and these have many merrits, but please skip on the excuses and refine your formular. Then we'd have a winner here.


I'd put money on the thing that causes them to reactivate being the same thing that makes them cover smoother than Contrast. I mean, these things paint marine power armor far better than Contrast does in one coat. I don't believe for a minute that Citadel hadn't tried and junked something similar to the Speed Paint formula when they were working on Contrast for this very reason. And this is Army Painter, they're the cheap and cheerful mini-painting alternative. I think if there were some way to refine the formula, one of them would have done it.


Then again, Citadel is Games Workshop, when was the last time they've done more than the bare minimum?


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/03 22:45:49


Post by: AllSeeingSkink


Some reviews have mentioned the reactivation / bleeding can be an issue where 2 colours meet also, with one colour wanting to bleed into the other and creating a different coloured line between them.

deano2099 wrote:
I mean, these things paint marine power armor far better than Contrast does in one coat.


I feel like the reviews have been a bit mixed on that. In some reviews, the Speed Paint looks better than Contrast does on a Marine, but in others they look very similar. Some reviewers have said speed paint is easier to manipulate, others have said contrast is easier to manipulate (I think squidmar said that).

Application technique definitely matters with paints like these, so it's probably hard to judge without just using them yourself.

It seems odd that it wouldn't be something they could fix. Acrylic drying retarders that slow drying but still allow a full cure do exist. I'd be curious to see what results one could get from just adding some drying retarder to GW's contrasts and if it'd make it easier to avoid tide marks.

I do intend to pick up a couple to try, but my interest has gone from "I'll buy the 10 paint set from an online store" to "I might buy 1 or 2 to try out when I see them in stock in my FLGS".

Does anywhere in Australia have them yet? Preorders were being taken with an expected date of Feb, but TCC still has them as "preorder" rather than "in stock".



Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/04 11:51:54


Post by: deano2099


 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
deano2099 wrote:
 Garfield666 wrote:

Dang... I like Armypainter products and these have many merrits, but please skip on the excuses and refine your formular. Then we'd have a winner here.


I'd put money on the thing that causes them to reactivate being the same thing that makes them cover smoother than Contrast. I mean, these things paint marine power armor far better than Contrast does in one coat. I don't believe for a minute that Citadel hadn't tried and junked something similar to the Speed Paint formula when they were working on Contrast for this very reason. And this is Army Painter, they're the cheap and cheerful mini-painting alternative. I think if there were some way to refine the formula, one of them would have done it.


Then again, Citadel is Games Workshop, when was the last time they've done more than the bare minimum?


Except there's a point where that basically becomes a meme and not actually the truth. Citadel paints are generally better than a lot of others on the market. Do the pots suck? Yes. Are they better enough to be worth the very premium price? You can argue either way.

The reality is GW consistently push out very good products. They just charge a fortune for them.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/04 12:59:45


Post by: Klickor


Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the problems actually stem from the difference in primer.

The first test of contrast I ever did I compared an intercessor primed with army painter's white primer and one with GW's Wraith Bone and there was a very noticeable difference. On the AP primer it looked more like just a normal wash, it didnt flow very well at all and if you looked close the surface wasn't smooth at all. The one with wraithbone primer looked just like any of the GW promotional material at the time. Almost like difference between painting on paper that sucks in the paint versus on plastic were the paint dries on the surface only.

My experience with army painter primer is that they are much more matte and "rough" and absorb way more paint/Water/fluid than the GW primers made for contrast. GW's contrast primers are much more glossy on the surface so the contrast paints flow more like they want to.

So if you use contrast on AP primer you don't get as good of a result as using it on a GW contrast primer. So it is almost expected hen if you get worse result from using the AP speed paints on something more like a GW primer than AP's own.

How glossy/smooth a surface is matters a lot when applying stuff like washes, inks and contrats. For example I coat my Blood Angel vehicles in gloss varnish inbetween the basecoat and wash step or it looks like crap on the larger surfaces.



Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/04 13:24:00


Post by: Nomeny


Klickor wrote:
Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the problems actually stem from the difference in primer.

The first test of contrast I ever did I compared an intercessor primed with army painter's white primer and one with GW's Wraith Bone and there was a very noticeable difference. On the AP primer it looked more like just a normal wash, it didnt flow very well at all and if you looked close the surface wasn't smooth at all. The one with wraithbone primer looked just like any of the GW promotional material at the time. Almost like difference between painting on paper that sucks in the paint versus on plastic were the paint dries on the surface only.

My experience with army painter primer is that they are much more matte and "rough" and absorb way more paint/Water/fluid than the GW primers made for contrast. GW's contrast primers are much more glossy on the surface so the contrast paints flow more like they want to.

So if you use contrast on AP primer you don't get as good of a result as using it on a GW contrast primer. So it is almost expected hen if you get worse result from using the AP speed paints on something more like a GW primer than AP's own.

How glossy/smooth a surface is matters a lot when applying stuff like washes, inks and contrats. For example I coat my Blood Angel vehicles in gloss varnish inbetween the basecoat and wash step or it looks like crap on the larger surfaces.



That's very handy to know, thank you!


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/04 14:28:43


Post by: Ghaz


Klickor wrote:
The first test of contrast I ever did I compared an intercessor primed with army painter's white primer and one with GW's Wraith Bone and there was a very noticeable difference. On the AP primer it looked more like just a normal wash, it didnt flow very well at all and if you looked close the surface wasn't smooth at all. The one with wraithbone primer looked just like any of the GW promotional material at the time. Almost like difference between painting on paper that sucks in the paint versus on plastic were the paint dries on the surface only.

That was covered on Warhammer Community when the Contrast paints were released. From The Science of Paint:

4. The Pigment Predicament

You know when we said colour is the art, and bases are the science? We weren’t telling the whole truth. Some colours have unique properties which make them difficult to pin down, with white paint being the most tricky to nail.

Pigment is made by grinding down chemical compounds. Each chemical compound has a minimum size it can be reduced to, with black pigment being the smallest, and white pigment – or titanium dioxide – being the largest. As such, pure white paint can appear clumpy or struggle to provide good coverage.

When we make white paints, we mix them with pigments of other colours to increase their coverage and smoothness, as pure white can lead to a bumpy or rough surface texture.


Army Painter product teaser - It's Not Contrast! @ 2022/03/13 09:23:49


Post by: Shadow Walker