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Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/08 14:00:58


Post by: Niiai


Desied to start the new thread. If anybody have any primers for 9th let's post them.

Looking around the web I am overall on first impression quite happy.

Abominants (T5, 3 wounds) and purestrain genestealers (4++) got upgraded. Hybrid metamorphs have the whip build in, so they might have a home now.

Trucks and rock grinders got better save, - 1 damage and went up 15 points. Acolytes (our bread and butter unit) went up 1 point and got 1 T.

I am not sold on the 20 point banner. Sad to loose re-roll 1, but primus can do that now. (The wording on the timing templating is amazing BTW.)

All characters seems on first impression to be playable, but I have not followed up on them closely. Psykick powers are weaker, but we have better access to them and they are on good characters now.

Several ways to get good charges from reserves. But best is 8" charge on 3d6, discard lowest, +1. Takes some sett up but it can work.

Crossfire looks great, but we need to lean into it. Especially if we want that +1 to the wound roll. (Hand flamers, yes please.)

Several weapons then where not very exiting got better. All versions of seismic cannon. (Remember any D2 or more makes a crossfire token.) Ridge runners with rockets actually has some use now. (D2 for crossfire.)

All in all it is much the same, but updated for. 9th edition. We still crumble if people glanze our way. But our killing potensial is increased by a lott. We stil need to sett up a myriad of buffs to punch above our weight. But each of those buffs has less chances of failing the sett up. So ouer 'long sequence of dominos' have a better chance of suksess.

Welcome to 2022. May your uprising go as well as it says on the phamplett.



Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/08 14:49:26


Post by: Ordana


Yeah I'm not sold on the icon myself. If its only on a few select units then they will just be removed entirely in 1 go, same as happens to Necrons now except way way easier because its only guardsmen bodies.
For a lot of them (like with 4+ neophyte shooting group) an Iconward may be worth it.

Thanks to a bunch of strats and other tricks I think even with a few Crossfire units you can get a lot of mileage out of it.

An acolyte unit with handflamers and the upgrade them lets them shoot as if the target is exposed.

Jackal Alphus, Sniper Sanctus, 5man squads of Acolytes with hand flamers can all give out a crossfire on 1-2 units and then you open up with some Ridgerunners with +1 to hit and potentially +1 wound.

Being able to put Genestealers out front fishing for a turn 1 charge (thanks to the pre-move upgrade) but also being able to put them into reserve or deploy further back thanks to blips sounds really good.

All in all it reads like an absolutely fantastic book. I don't know if GSC will be top tier because of how squishy the army still is but it certainly looks like a blast to play with lots of options.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/08 16:01:49


Post by: Niiai


One of the big tricks in 40K is to put a ridicules. Amount of buffs on units for a super attack.

Primus re-rolling 1's, crossfire on the i den det target and oveoading an attack from ridge runners seems great. Either it is mining lasers or the rockets. (Rockets become D4 when overloaded.)

Goonhammer also kept talking about that first turn charge unit of purest rains. That sounds like fun. And not a big army investment. (Although they suck a bit when they come on board again fif you did not get turn 1.) The big squad of Neophytes with 4 seismic cannon they talked about also sounded fun. (I think I build most of my seismic cannons into lasers though.)


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/08 17:50:50


Post by: Madjob


Purestrains are our sweepers T1. If there's a unit that will give us problems on T2+ with successfully dropping how we want, they've got the punch to clear it out. If you get them to S5 a unit of 10 averages 9 dead MEQ. Insanely efficient at 140 points, and 4+ invulns will make them obnoxious to clear out, assuming you don't just pull them off the board as soon as they're done.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/08 20:05:15


Post by: Niiai


Some channel (don't know who, goonhammer or MWG) said that there is a relic gun that gives the crossfire keyword to a characters shooting attacks. Can work for kellernoprh and perhaps even better on the sabotour. Sounds fun.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/08 20:17:00


Post by: Ordana


 Niiai wrote:
Some channel (don't know who, goonhammer or MWG) said that there is a relic gun that gives the crossfire keyword to a characters shooting attacks. Can work for kellernoprh and perhaps even better on the sabotour. Sounds fun.
Goonhammer said
The Oppressors Bane also returns, a multi-shot super-powered autopistol that now gives the bearer CROSSFIRE, and always treats the target as Exposed and as already having a Crossfire Marker. It can’t be taken on a Kelermorph any more, but is a huge boost to the utility of the various buff characters that have a throwaway autopistol shot on their statline


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/09 00:46:23


Post by: dreadlybrew


Fire truck tested well today. But I think mixing hybrids and neophytes will.maximize our crossfire and exposed shooting. I've found that I am basically always crossfire and exposing everything until I run out of units.

You still need the transports or a swift wind kills your troops. Its the only defensive option.

Also bladed cog giving +3 inches to flamers is some next level awesome.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/09 02:11:34


Post by: the_scotsman


dreadlybrew wrote:

You still need the transports or a swift wind kills your troops. Its the only defensive option.


I am extremely curious how a horde list centering around an Alien Magesty Acolyte Iconward with the Pauper Princes 5++ relic would go.

You'd take a Jackal Alphus as your second HQ to avoid being forced to make someone else the warlord, and probably since he's so critical to the strategy generally you'd take a Locus to keep the iconward safe. With a bunch of 20-blocks of neophytes the Jackal's ability to tag exposed one one target and sniper-shot a second target to set up crossfire will be invaluable.

I think it'd have good play into the meta atm which doesnt seem to plan for chaff hordes basically at all, and you'd take just a gak-ton of Jackals, neophytes, acolytes, etc for the Iconward to grant a 5++ and resurrect.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/09 04:44:42


Post by: hangnailnz


I don't understand why no one seems to be getting excited about Hivecult being able to perform actions and still shoot. This is pretty massive. We want to be dropping units into the backfield to set up crossfire anyway, and if that unit can Repair Teleport Homers at the same time - it seems like 15 guaranteed points.
Repeat with whatever Actions you feel like you want, and Secondaries should be a lot more manageable - so long as they can be completed within our turn...


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/09 10:30:00


Post by: Niiai


Yeah it is quite powerful. Fall back and shoot as well as the warlord aura are strong also in that creed.

I don't know the best unit to what you are suggesting. 3x5 units of hand flamers is 180 points. But so is 3 units of Neophytes as well. If they are just there to do objectives then theyi might be better, with longer range and more wounds. Not a guaranteed to out up a crossfire token (75% within rapid fire range.) But you can only deeps trike back there turn 2 or 3,athough return to the shadow or something probably gets around this.

But you can just spend some points on some action monkeys anyway. The cult creed affe TS so many things now, it is wild. I have not gotten a firm impression on them yet.

Four armed emperors good charges + free CP is also pretty wild. Rusted claw seems good on vehicles. Advance + stasionary is nice. - 1 on small arms AP means that 3+ and ramshackle is strong on transports.

I have a weak spot for twisted helix. It was what I played in the old codex. Advancing acolytes + cp advance and charge stratagem out of trukks made them as fast as genestealers. (But now genestealers can be as fast as genestealers.) I will have to wait and see. :-)

Edit: It is a shame they came from below says non vehicle.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/09 11:00:11


Post by: Ordana


I think Hiveguard might be the second best cult, because of being able to do both actions and shoot.

Best being any custom cult involving Industrial Affinity. The ability to just ignore any negative modifiers while still getting positives just looks so strong.

But almost every cult has something that you could build a list around. On the surface the balance looks great.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/09 11:08:44


Post by: Niiai


Are there many negative modifiers on industrial weapons? The rock scissors come to mind. Moving with Neophytes. And when the enemy is behind terrain. Abberants don't get it anymore.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/09 12:17:31


Post by: princeyg


So, i've just finished watching a 3 hour run through of the codex by Skari.

Things I've learnt:-

10 Purestrains are absolutely going to be I every army I build.

The cult creeds are all pretty decent, though right now I am leaning towards Hivecult for its sheer flexibility.

The Sanctus has gone from kinda meh to actually really good. deffo getting one of these now.

metamorphs still kinda meh compared to just normal acolytes, but fight on death is pretty cool.

A big unit of acolytes with the 3d6 charge upgrade is pretty much gonna be an auto-include.

Very happy they didnt get rid of blips.

Am finally going to have to invest in rockgrinders.

Overall, very very happy with how flexible and fluffy this book is, really makes GSC feel unique.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/09 13:11:15


Post by: Ordana


 Niiai wrote:
Are there many negative modifiers on industrial weapons? The rock scissors come to mind. Moving with Neophytes. And when the enemy is behind terrain. Abberants don't get it anymore.
those, but multiple armies can also give out -1 to hit as defensive buffs. Ignoring Lightning Reflexes, Smoke Launchers, Nid Malanthrope/Venomthrope. Whatever that Tson power is called, Flyers in general, ect.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/09 13:24:23


Post by: Niiai


Yeah, those are good point. But there is also a creed that makes you count as standing stil after moving and advancing. Witch sorts out the infnatery heavy weapons. It also gives some good range.

Looking at the cost of a brigade.

Patriarch
Magus
Primus

6 troops for 60 each (Neophytes or handflamer acolytes)

3 elite characters at 80 each

3 ridge runners (Although bikes are cheaper)

3 rockgrinders

1470. Plenty of points left for more troops (the reason to field a brigade) and for toys. An option if you need more then 6 troops but do not want to loose cp.

I think we can do good with the codex. Although in experimenting with list buildings I need to add units that can give exposed so I get the important +1 to wound on the shooting. It seems very important.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/09 15:46:18


Post by: dreadlybrew


I think we are looking at always having msu hand flamers units in deep strike to trigger exposed and crossfire. 5 auto hitting weapons triggers the crossfire. Flanking them creates the exposed.

Do we know if ridgrunners are core? That is honestly the best hope the codex has.

Be prepared to argue a lot with opponents on whether their units are exposed or not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also hive cult is my jam. But 3 inches on flamers for bladed cog is some insane hybrid play.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/09 16:00:56


Post by: Ordana


Sadly (but expected) Ridgerunners are not core, which also means that an Alphus does basically nothing for them outside of providing a Crossfire marker.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/09 16:20:35


Post by: Niiai


The old alphus provided +1 bs. The new crossfire rule +1 to hit. You do the math. It is not that big a loss. (If anything, the alphus might be more redundant. Although she is one good source of crossfire. I think the sanctis is as well.)

Ridgerunners and outriders might be our only units that are mobile enough to give exposure outside of deep striking behind stuff.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/09 16:39:03


Post by: Ordana


 Niiai wrote:
The old alphus provided +1 bs. The new crossfire rule +1 to hit. You do the math. It is not that big a loss. (If anything, the alphus might be more redundant. Although she is one good source of crossfire. I think the sanctis is as well.)

Ridgerunners and outriders might be our only units that are mobile enough to give exposure outside of deep striking behind stuff.
My reasoning is that if you have an army of ridgerunners and neophytes in trucks then the HQ's feel bad. Primus can't effect Ridgerunners and the units inside transports, same with Alphus. Iconward doesn't fit the army so your 2 HQ's are Magus and Patriarch almost by default?

Just for the thematic outrider army I would have liked the Alphus to also be able to effect a Ridgerunner unit.
Tho I guess the 'free' expose might be nice for a Jackal unit that brings a Quad with Incinerator? But is that worth 80 points?



Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/09 19:11:20


Post by: Niiai


Mmmm... I see I missed of the neuanses of Alphus abilaty. I was thinking about her sniper rifle has 5/6's chance of putting up an crossfire token as she is damage 2. And she also has the Priority Target abilaty, to give a unit the benefit of the crossfire.

The sanctus also has a 2 damage sniper rifle, but he auto hits. That also gives crossfire.

True, one units of hand flaming acolytes is only 60 points and deal more damage. But they are hard to use turn 1, and they would die after use I suppose.

Regarding the limited numbers of HQ, for each HQ you take you can take a character that does not take up an slot I belive. So you can do all 5 HQ in the same army.

While primus aura do not boost the ridgerunners, he can boost 2 non core units one turn (usualy turn 1.) So that can benefit the overcharged ridgerunner lasers. I am just stuck assosiating 8th edtion ridgerunners and jackal as our anti tank.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/09 19:18:19


Post by: Ordana


careful with wording. There is a Crossfire marker, which is given out with 5+ hits or a >1 damage hit and gives +1 hit and there is Exposed which is +1 wound if you shoot at something with a Crossfire marker while it is in line with another Crossfire unit on the opposite side.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/09 23:35:50


Post by: Acehilator


Best sources of Crossfire Markers:

1. Nexos. Put a marker on a unit anywhere on the battlefield, no questions asked (no LoS required). His ability "Strategic Coordination" allows you to transfer character buffs from other characters in the backline to the front. The Nexos-only relic "Cranial Inlay" gives him CP regen on a 5+, and he can use "Strategic Coordination" twice. 50 points. Auto-include imho.

2. Sanctus with Cult Sniper Rifle. 36" range, Heavy 1, D2, autohit. So he can move around to draw LoS and shoot, even after advancing in Rusted Claw. No need to use a relic on him for Crossfire duty. 70 points. Also auto-include for lists leaning heavily into ranged/Crossfire, imho.

3. Jackal Alphus. Her buffing potential is not that great actually ("Priority Targeting" has some annoying limitations, not only in regards to CORE units, but also interaction with stratagems that require "true" exposed, and don't work with "Priority Targeting"). But it's still there, and M14 instead of M6 for the Sanctus. BS 2+, 3+ after moving. 80 points. Probably really good (and thematic) in Rusted Claw, otherwise not so much.

4. "Oppressor's Bane" autopistol relic. Only 15" range, but nice stats, always counts as having Crossfire/Exposed active, and gives the wearer the Crossfire keyword. Chuck it on a buff character and call it a day. Primus sadly cannot take it, prime candidates are Biophagus and Clamavus.

5. 5 Acolytes with Hand Flamers. You need to roll really badly to not get five hits, but it's still 60 points for a throwaway unit. Max. one these, I guess.

Taking a HQ unit allows you to add another <Character> without taking up a slot, so with 3+6 base for a Batallion slots will prettymuch never be an issue. Limitation of one character of a type per detachment is still in play, though.



Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/10 00:07:01


Post by: KurtAngle2


The day I'll do fewer hits than 5 on auto hitting 5D6s I'll let you know


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/10 00:16:55


Post by: Niiai


Good write up Acehilator. The nice thing about acolytes is that they will often also activate exposed if you come from behind.

While we have a lot of new cool tricks in this codex we stil can't take a hit. We need to milk the new deadly potensial to the max IMHO. It does not help to have +1 to hit and +1 to wound if we don't activate it. (Witch i suspect a lot of first day lists will have a hard time doing.)

Do anybody have any good canidates to get exposed as well?


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/10 00:35:19


Post by: Ordana


KurtAngle2 wrote:
The day I'll do fewer hits than 5 on auto hitting 5D6s I'll let you know
if your trying to be cheap you bring 3 flamers for still an almost guaranteed 5 hits. 2 flamers + 3 pistols is probably not good enough but I havn't done the math on that.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/10 00:36:54


Post by: hangnailnz


Ultimately, getting Exposed relies on angles, so it comes down to how the opposing unit s arranged, and which angle our forces are coming from... hordes should be fairly easy to Expose, but the elite units we most want to get this on will be harder due to small numbers. The closer our first unit is, and the wider they are spaced out, the greater arc of the board they open up for a unit to take advantage of exposed.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/10 00:55:58


Post by: Acehilator


Exposed:

No sources from WL traits, relics or psychic powers (neither general nor Cult-specific), or Cult-specific stratagems.

Proficient planning: "A perfect Ambush"
+15 points, Crossfire & Exposed active on a target within 12" when arriving as Reinforcements. As usual, can only take this upgrade for one unit of your army. Note, you cannot avoid the -1 penalty for Heavy weapons, even as Rusted Claw.

Stratagems:
"Dig them out" (1 CP)
Target within 12" counts as Exposed for Industrial weapons. Interestingly, does not count as Crossfire, and does not require Crossfire active on the target either.

"Pack Hunters" (2 CP)
Enemy unit within 6" of a ATALAN JACKAL unit counts as Exposed for attacks from all other units in your army. Does not require the Jackals to attack the enemy unit, and again only grants Exposed and not Crossfire.

Generally speaking, Exposed will require a sizeable melee element in your army to get consistently. Don't overextend trying to get it, and you probably don't want to drop too many Neophytes in the back of your enemies lines. The obligatory 5-man Acolyte squad will be good for this.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/10 01:23:55


Post by: Niiai


Why does not rusted claw avoid the - 1 from heavy weapons? Is it a spesific wording for GSC? Arriving from reserves count as a normal move. Rusted claw count as remaining stationary until the end of the shooting phase.

With athelan jackals beeing fairly cheap and sturdy for their price they can just sipp back on the back end of the table and try to trigger exposed. Those and ridge runners are probably the most movement per unit for points. 4 jackals can also. Space out quite wide.

I just had a hilarious thought of not taking anything but small infnatery to make the opponents heavy weapons really suck. Just supercost every unit starting on the board with 'they came from below' and suddenly you have a pre game move on all units. Sort of like Necrons have (expansionist, is that what they are called?)


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/10 02:03:28


Post by: JNAProductions


 Ordana wrote:
KurtAngle2 wrote:
The day I'll do fewer hits than 5 on auto hitting 5D6s I'll let you know
if your trying to be cheap you bring 3 flamers for still an almost guaranteed 5 hits. 2 flamers + 3 pistols is probably not good enough but I havn't done the math on that.
Are they BS 3+ or 4+? Assuming 3+...

Numbers are as follows:

99.97% chance of 5+ hits from 4d6 Flamer hits and 1 pistol shot.
99.59% chance of 5+ hits from 3d6 Flamer hits and 2 pistol shots.
96.30% chance of 5+ hits from 2d6 Flamer hits and 3 pistol shots.
77.78% chance of 5+ hits from 1d6 Flamer hits and 4 pistol shots.
13.17% chance of 5+ hits from 5 pistol shots alone.

Two Flamers seems like the sweet spot, actually.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/10 05:47:24


Post by: dreadlybrew


Does the webber trigger crossfire because its not a 1 damage weapon?


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/10 10:23:36


Post by: Ordana


 JNAProductions wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
KurtAngle2 wrote:
The day I'll do fewer hits than 5 on auto hitting 5D6s I'll let you know
if your trying to be cheap you bring 3 flamers for still an almost guaranteed 5 hits. 2 flamers + 3 pistols is probably not good enough but I havn't done the math on that.
Are they BS 3+ or 4+? Assuming 3+...

Numbers are as follows:

99.97% chance of 5+ hits from 4d6 Flamer hits and 1 pistol shot.
99.59% chance of 5+ hits from 3d6 Flamer hits and 2 pistol shots.
96.30% chance of 5+ hits from 2d6 Flamer hits and 3 pistol shots.
77.78% chance of 5+ hits from 1d6 Flamer hits and 4 pistol shots.
13.17% chance of 5+ hits from 5 pistol shots alone.

Two Flamers seems like the sweet spot, actually.
They are 4+ base and I wouldn't assume Crossfire because that is what your trying to trigger. Should still be good with 2, tho I would probably still go 3 just to be really sure unless you desperately need the 3 points elsewhere.

 Niiai wrote:
Why does not rusted claw avoid the - 1 from heavy weapons? Is it a spesific wording for GSC? Arriving from reserves count as a normal move. Rusted claw count as remaining stationary until the end of the shooting phase.

With athelan jackals beeing fairly cheap and sturdy for their price they can just sipp back on the back end of the table and try to trigger exposed. Those and ridge runners are probably the most movement per unit for points. 4 jackals can also. Space out quite wide.

I just had a hilarious thought of not taking anything but small infnatery to make the opponents heavy weapons really suck. Just supercost every unit starting on the board with 'they came from below' and suddenly you have a pre game move on all units. Sort of like Necrons have (expansionist, is that what they are called?)
The unit upgrades are unique. can't give 2 units the same one or give 1 unit two upgrades.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/10 10:34:32


Post by: Niiai


Oh the units upgrades are unique? I think I have seen some battle reports where they do that wrong then.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/10 14:07:48


Post by: Acehilator


Yes, "Proficient Planning" upgrades are unique.

Re: Rusted Claw and avoiding the -1 for Heavy weapons when arriving from reserves, it's in the 40k Core Book FAQ, page 8. Essentially, units arriving from reserves can never benefit from any "counts as stationary" rules in the turn they are set up.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/10 14:16:34


Post by: Niiai


That is just weard, but fear enough.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/10 15:26:00


Post by: The_Real_Chris


I have realised my dream GSC is probably a narrative game where near limitless (recycling) hordes press every closer to the embattled interlopers...


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/10 16:26:19


Post by: Niiai


To be fair that mechanic is in the codex with banners bringing back units. Picturing people joining in out of manhole covers and abandoned buildings.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/10 16:30:46


Post by: dammit


Webber does not hit do cannot proc crossfire.

Exposed does nothing if you dont have a crossfire marker, even if you use the strat.

Sanctus can turn off bodyguard auras with his strat.

Backfield primus with 5++ relic can use nexos to broadcast it to 1 or 2 units anywhere on the board. Clamavus can similarly broadcast action + shoot to a unit anywhere on the board.

Hand flamers are not a good way to proc crossfire because they beneit the most from the +1 to wound from exposed.

Give opressor's bane to a saboteur to give the 2d3 bombs crossfire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, be careful with the strategic reserve upgrade that counts as +1 turn. for the same reason you can come in on turn 1, the unit probably dies if not on the board by end of turn 2.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/10 17:37:38


Post by: JNAProductions


 Ordana wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
KurtAngle2 wrote:
The day I'll do fewer hits than 5 on auto hitting 5D6s I'll let you know
if your trying to be cheap you bring 3 flamers for still an almost guaranteed 5 hits. 2 flamers + 3 pistols is probably not good enough but I havn't done the math on that.
Are they BS 3+ or 4+? Assuming 3+...

Numbers are as follows:

99.97% chance of 5+ hits from 4d6 Flamer hits and 1 pistol shot.
99.59% chance of 5+ hits from 3d6 Flamer hits and 2 pistol shots.
96.30% chance of 5+ hits from 2d6 Flamer hits and 3 pistol shots.
77.78% chance of 5+ hits from 1d6 Flamer hits and 4 pistol shots.
13.17% chance of 5+ hits from 5 pistol shots alone.

Two Flamers seems like the sweet spot, actually.
They are 4+ base and I wouldn't assume Crossfire because that is what your trying to trigger. Should still be good with 2, tho I would probably still go 3 just to be really sure unless you desperately need the 3 points elsewhere.

 Niiai wrote:
Why does not rusted claw avoid the - 1 from heavy weapons? Is it a spesific wording for GSC? Arriving from reserves count as a normal move. Rusted claw count as remaining stationary until the end of the shooting phase.

With athelan jackals beeing fairly cheap and sturdy for their price they can just sipp back on the back end of the table and try to trigger exposed. Those and ridge runners are probably the most movement per unit for points. 4 jackals can also. Space out quite wide.

I just had a hilarious thought of not taking anything but small infnatery to make the opponents heavy weapons really suck. Just supercost every unit starting on the board with 'they came from below' and suddenly you have a pre game move on all units. Sort of like Necrons have (expansionist, is that what they are called?)
The unit upgrades are unique. can't give 2 units the same one or give 1 unit two upgrades.
4+ Base? NEW MATH!

0 Flamers......3.13%
1 Flamers......66.67%
2 Flamers......93.75%
3 Flamers......99.31%
4 Flamers......99.96%
5 Flamers......100%


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/10 17:59:34


Post by: Yarium


dreadlybrew wrote:
Does the webber trigger crossfire because its not a 1 damage weapon?

It may not end up ever dealing 1 damage the normal way, but a Webber does actually have a damage characteristic of 1 - so it only applies Crossfire like normal.
EDIT: Hey, would you look at that, it doesn't even "hit" its target. It does its thing before even getting to the hit roll!


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/10 18:30:16


Post by: Ordana


Yeah a Webber does nothing for Crossfire since it doesn't hit.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/10 22:52:48


Post by: Acehilator


Not really impressed by any of the Assault weapons tbh.

- Webbers are really bad. Wording different from Flamers, generating no hits, and the special "wound" roll must be higher than that of the target unit, so wounding T3 on 4s, and T4 on 5s. +50% range, -43% hits, worse wounding, +100% cost. Horrible.

- Grenade Launcher. 10 points for a Krak Grenade at longer range? Nah. Maybe if your local Meta is infested by T3 infantry, so Frag has some use. Even then, still expensive.

- Flamer. Probably the best pick, especially with Shotguns.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 02:05:01


Post by: pinecone77


hangnailnz wrote:
I don't understand why no one seems to be getting excited about Hivecult being able to perform actions and still shoot. This is pretty massive. We want to be dropping units into the backfield to set up crossfire anyway, and if that unit can Repair Teleport Homers at the same time - it seems like 15 guaranteed points.
Repeat with whatever Actions you feel like you want, and Secondaries should be a lot more manageable - so long as they can be completed within our turn...


Hive Cult might just be the "sleeper" Tourney winner.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 02:15:04


Post by: dreadlybrew


Hivecult/rusted claw double battalions are going to wreck some face. But can you cross cult crossfire?


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 02:22:36


Post by: pinecone77


I don't think so......


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 02:24:24


Post by: hangnailnz


The Crossfire rule only specifies friendly unit with Crossfire, not even <cult>... from what we have seen. Worth mentioning at this point that it doesn't have to be the unit that placed the Crossfire marker when working out if a unit is exposed, just another friendly Crossfire unit, so a backfield unit could place the marker, and then a unit of ridge-runners from either flank could make use of it if the marked unit is between them.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 03:49:39


Post by: the_scotsman


 Niiai wrote:
Are there many negative modifiers on industrial weapons? The rock scissors come to mind. Moving with Neophytes. And when the enemy is behind terrain. Abberants don't get it anymore.


Any time I want to advance and shoot assault.

or fire thru dense.

or attack with a rock cutter.

Or attack an enemy with a -1 to hit mod.

or move and shoot heavy.

It's pretty fething dope as a trait lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
dreadlybrew wrote:
Hivecult/rusted claw double battalions are going to wreck some face. But can you cross cult crossfire?


You cannot because the Crossfire rule specifically states you can only get the Crossfire rule if you have only one <cult> in your army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Acehilator wrote:
Not really impressed by any of the Assault weapons tbh.

- Webbers are really bad. Wording different from Flamers, generating no hits, and the special "wound" roll must be higher than that of the target unit, so wounding T3 on 4s, and T4 on 5s. +50% range, -43% hits, worse wounding, +100% cost. Horrible.

- Grenade Launcher. 10 points for a Krak Grenade at longer range? Nah. Maybe if your local Meta is infested by T3 infantry, so Frag has some use. Even then, still expensive.

- Flamer. Probably the best pick, especially with Shotguns.


I ran Webbers for a spin the other day against SM and wasn't blown away, but wasn't actively made sad. 66% chance of instantly making its points back every time you point it at a baseline Intercessor (you know, because it does 1MW and their wounds cost 10pts) and if your opponent has anything fancier...like mine did, with Lightning Claw/Storm Shield Vanguard Veterans on the board which are more like 18 points per wound, they feel fairly strong.

I definitely think the GL is pretty crapola, though it is worth noting that S3/S4 stuff does benefit pretty nicely from Exposed if you can get it. S4 more than S3 though IMO - I unloaded a bunch of shotguns into a dreadnought with crossfire+exposed and hit them with a solid 3 wounds from just the AP- weapons.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 10:59:58


Post by: Tyel


I can't make up my mind if Hivecult is the obvious competitive choice because objectives win games.

Or if its a fairly marginal bonus that just doesn't come up that much. I.E. "if" you were to do an action with 15 handflamer acolytes then also being able to shoot them is a good bonus. But if you are instead able to carry out that order with an MSU squad (and you'll likely have plenty) then being able to shoot with it is a fairly token bonus - compared with the perks available with other cults (or customs) that can be up much more of the time. Fall back and shoot is also a thing which I feel is overvalued relative to the utility it gives you. Again - if someone tags a unit of 15 handflamers being able to turn and burn is great. But I feel such a unit is going to be target number 1 for shooting so it shouldn't play out that way.

Also not really adding much - but unless there are synergies I'm missing, Abbs feel far too unreliable. I guess the 3 damage might be scary - and when it works it really works. But I feel the relatively low number of attacks, with relatively low AP, just gives too much opportunity for the dice to skew against you.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 11:27:40


Post by: KurtAngle2


Tyel wrote:
I can't make up my mind if Hivecult is the obvious competitive choice because objectives win games.

Or if its a fairly marginal bonus that just doesn't come up that much. I.E. "if" you were to do an action with 15 handflamer acolytes then also being able to shoot them is a good bonus. But if you are instead able to carry out that order with an MSU squad (and you'll likely have plenty) then being able to shoot with it is a fairly token bonus - compared with the perks available with other cults (or customs) that can be up much more of the time. Fall back and shoot is also a thing which I feel is overvalued relative to the utility it gives you. Again - if someone tags a unit of 15 handflamers being able to turn and burn is great. But I feel such a unit is going to be target number 1 for shooting so it shouldn't play out that way.

Also not really adding much - but unless there are synergies I'm missing, Abbs feel far too unreliable. I guess the 3 damage might be scary - and when it works it really works. But I feel the relatively low number of attacks, with relatively low AP, just gives too much opportunity for the dice to skew against you.


Hive Cult is just useless when you can pick 1 action at most and you're going to play a monoCreeds that literally doesn't buff any melee unit whatsoever (and you're still shooting badly when you do not ignore your own Heavy penalties on your Neos)


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 12:55:50


Post by: Acehilator


If anything is clear, it's that there is no such thing as an "obvious" choice in this codex. The depth of this book is crazy. Pretty such it's the best designed Codex of 9E so far.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 13:38:04


Post by: Tiberius501


So how are Neophytes looking? Their banner to bring d6 guys back is pretty neat. And with crossfire they seem more deadly. Seismic cannons and Webbers getting good as well helps them a bunch. And also still being able to take 2 of each weapon is a breath of fresh air in 9th, rather than 1 of each.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 13:59:09


Post by: Niiai


The banner looks really exspensive for me. It is the cost of 3 neophytes (so after one roll you essentially gain it back.) However if every model in the unit gets wiped out it does not help. That is to say it is probbably very good in particular builds. 20 man blobs with neophytes and banners + banner bearer charcater to get 2d6 models backs:

Pauper princes relic gives the 5++. Very good with Xenorpohphet and just have tons of neophytes.

Bladed cog gets 6++ and can get 5++.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 14:00:43


Post by: Tiberius501


I didn’t even notice they can be is blobs of 20 now. That’s cool


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 14:18:51


Post by: the_scotsman


Cults Breakdown:

Codex GSC seems to pretty well hit the mark with most of their cults setups, in summary if you want to specialize/skew your army towards one particular setup, custom cults generally can do that slightly better than core cults, but core cults generally offer a wider breadth of options between all the goodies they bring. For that reason I think it helps to start with custom cults, break those down, and then go into the core cults to see what you could do to make a more rounded list with the slight mechanical disadvantage vs the custom setups.

Custom Cults:

Hunter's Instincts, Impassioned, Alien Fury, Toxin Agents, Cold-Eyed Killers, (Industrial Affinity)

-All these custom cult traits allow you to increase the damage and reliability of melee within your list. Now, initially reading through these, one might be tempted to say "Man, look at the damage I could do if I take Industrial Affinity to spam Rock Cutters, Toxin Agents and Cold Eyed Killers, or maybe Impassioned+Industrial" but I will say there is one factor to make one of these a lot better than it initially seems: Hunters Instincts. Typically, a 9" charge roll with a re-roll is under 50% odds - decent, but not good enough that you're willing to throw your chances 'to the wolves' so to speak. However, our charges are now 8" not 9" from deep strike, which is a roughly 42% base chance instead of 27% - with a re-roll our 8" charges are about a 66% chance of success, and if you take an Acolyte Iconward for the +1" you get up to an almost 80% chance. On everything. From deep strike.

That's pretty great. In terms of the pure power combo talking about competitive play (where money is no object) I think the combo you might see for a melee list is Hunters Instincts+Industrial Affinity and ALLLLLL the rock cutters, because the rock cutter is the one melee industrial weapon that is always going to be getting an effective +1 to hit from Industrial Affinity.

The power of Cold Eyed Killers is actually fairly small IMO because at this point theres very few melee weapons in our army that don't start at AP-2, and Toxin is both an awkward 2-cost and dependent on facing vehicles/monsters. Industrial results in one small "nice to have" buff where you can ignore -1 to hit mods from abilities, but it also gives you an always-on buff from Rock Cutters, which competitive lists will happily spam to take maximum advantage of it.

Deep Supplies, Agile Guerillas, Industrial Affinity, Symbiotic Broodmind, Martial.

AKA "The ones you want to consider if you've got a significant amount of shooting." obvious clean combos for 4 cult points are either Martial or Agile combined with Deep Supplies - I think Agile probably is the pick here, as there are many many many quick and easy ways to set up Crossfire on just about as many units as you want to have it on, and with Agile you're *probably* guaranteed that there won't be enough modifiers to worry about to really consider Industrial over Deep Supplies. Industrial does outperform Deep Supplies if you have more than 1 Industrial weapon in the unit you're firing and your opponent has a -1 modifier that they are applying, but it doesnt actually outperform by *that* much, and the number of times that will actually occur in a game is likely to be minimal compared to the number of times you, for example, just need to hit on low #s wound on low #s and you have some mining laser shot or similar high-value weapon that gets the one-per-attack reroll.

Symbiotic Broodmind is a weird one that can be combined with Industrial for a handy-dandy "Set up a modifier and then give yourself one super obvious way to ignore that built-in modifier." The main unit that you want to think about when you consider this combo is, "exactly how many Achilles Ridgerunners and big blobs of shooty neophytes am i considering bringing in my list today" because that is the main two units that actually want to be falling back and shooting. Heavy seismics and incinerators on rockgrinders, autocannons on trucks and obviously the Jackals with their baked-in fallback+Shoot all don't particularly need Symbiotic, the situation where this combo is really going to shine is when your opponent ties up a 3-man squad of Achilles with something dumb and you really do NOT want to give up those 3d3 Blast shots that can't be fired in melee. So, again, like most custom cults: Heavy skew is needed to get the value out of this.

Accustomed to Toil, Thralls of the Patriarch, War Convoy

These are the defensive ones. Thralls I think is probably among the least effective traits, would be worth considering if it were a 1, but at a 2....nah, I dont think so. Morale as a mechanic has so many baked in easy ways out, and this one locks you out of so many effective combos.

Toil and Convoy however are both IMO quite effective AND handy to combine with other more offensive traits. For example: Deep Supplies+Industrial+Convoy creates a really powerful combo for a lot of truck-borne neophyte squads and Jackal squads making use of Mining Lasers rendered much more reliable with the Deep Supplies reroll. Agile+Convoy+Toil is also a fairly handy combo for an extremely tough mechanized list that can really go balls to the wall with mobility and flexibility. Maxed out jackals, neophytes in trucks, plus a jackal alphus for an HQ that's fast enough to keep up would make for a hell of a scoring heavy list.

And lastly, we have Synaptic Resonance, which I think actually may get taken because there are a couple handy combos that are a 1-1-1 and this one is probably generally more useful to "Throw in there" than something like Cold Eyed which relis on you finding a melee weapon somewhere that isn't already AP-2 or Alien Fury which is just...very meh. If I was going Industrial+Toil+Convoy and I wanted to spend that fourth point, I think if I include just 1 patriarch or magus in the list Resonance looks better than Cold Eyed or Alien Fury.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 14:19:49


Post by: Madjob


 Tiberius501 wrote:
I didn’t even notice they can be is blobs of 20 now. That’s cool


They always could be.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 14:23:47


Post by: Tiberius501


Madjob wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
I didn’t even notice they can be is blobs of 20 now. That’s cool


They always could be.


Huh… so they could. I just always saw them as 10 guys taken in trucks that I hadn’t even noticed lol.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 16:04:59


Post by: the_scotsman


Now, we compare the core cults to the custom cults. A common theme here is definitely going to be: Aspects of the core cults show up in the custom cults, and whether to go custom or core is going to rely on how well you make use of the core's unique aspects.

Hivecult, for example, includes the fall back and shoot with -1 ability available in a custom cult, but instead of having a 1 cult point ability, it has a unique second half: Fall Back and Advance and still perform an action, and can shoot while performing an action.

So that is worth considering as it will probably make one of your three secondaries much, MUCH easier to do even just when looking at the extra movement freedom you get for action performing. And of course then we have to get into the infomercial But Wait, Theres More! aspects of the core cults:

the Hivelord trait which is *most likely* going to wind up on a Primus given the restrictions on who can be your warlord and its obvious synergy with his other abilites actually starts to give a compelling argument for why 20-blocks of on foot neophytes isn't a bad idea. Combine them with an Iconward to make them obnoxious to fully kill, and then the cult trait means your opponent can't stop them by tying them up, you've just basically given yourself license to make a list-check list of "Did you bring enough anti-horde firepower to take down my huge wave of neophytes, or do I win?" As we'll see later, this isnt' the *only* cult you can be trying this with, but I think overall its probably the better one, because offensive power as opposed to defensive power allows you to be putting more pressure on your opponent - by scoring a ton using your handy-dandy cult action trait, and by removing the tools in their list that can actually clear out your horde of scrubs.

Fire Discipline is also a handy tool for those big-unit setups, because if you are taking a foot horde you're not going to have the obvious Goliath trucks to tag enemy units with Crossfire tokens before the big neophyte hordes open up. You'll definitely want to have bare minimum a sniper Sanctus or a Jackal Alphus in the setup to get a couple more free tokens out on the board as well, but this is a nice bonus to ensure your 20-blocks never need to hit on 4s.

Vockor's Talisman is something of an oddball in the rest of the Hivecult setup, since its obvious use case screams "Put me on a patriarch and make it so he kills God!" but the rest of the goodies - the creed, the strat, the trait - are all based around CORE infantry shooting. The simple alternative to it is to just take Alien Magesty on your aura-giving Primus to make him more flexible, but hey, statistically this is probably the best combat trait out there for a Patriarch, so if you want him you can throw him in as a counter charge piece.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 16:28:58


Post by: Niiai


I am tempted to take a double detachment with synaptic ressonance. And take 2 maguses and 2 patrirach and cast a lott of spells. Re-rolling 1 and 2 should give me very consistent smites.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 16:32:18


Post by: the_scotsman


 Niiai wrote:
I am tempted to take a double detachment with synaptic ressonance. And take 2 maguses and 2 patrirach and cast a lott of spells. Re-rolling 1 and 2 should give me very consistent smites.


Personally I think double cult play is essentially dead with the limitation of only one cult to Crossfire. It's too valuable a rule to give up, even if your list is a melee list because of the 1cp fights last strat.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 16:36:28


Post by: Niiai


They would be part of the same cult. Re-rolling 1 and 2 on a psyckick power is just very strong. The biggest problem is running out of psykick powers. With 4 casters I am dividing 6 powers between 8 spell slots. Not ideal. Also, losing CP sounds insane because the relics and warkord traits look really good. (At least for now in the eraly days.)


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 17:01:50


Post by: the_scotsman


Rusted Claw is another one that's going to be directly in competition with Custom Cults, since arguably the main ability (move/advance and count as Stationary) is one of the available custom cult traits, this time only as a 2 point.

Objectively, this is a situation where you can *probably* get more mileage out of a custom trait combo that is trying to do the exact same thing as this core trait - Agile+Toil+Convoy gives you mini-transhuman and a 6+FNP on bikes/vehicles compared to +1 armor save vs AP-1 AP-2.

Let's say you're running some Jackal Bikes, as you obviously would as either RC or the ATC combo above. Assume the firer is BS3+:

Heavy Bolter vs RC: 1 wound
Heavy Bolter vs ATC: 1.11 wounds

Plasma (overcharged) Vs RC: 1.666 wounds
Plasma (overcharged) vs ATC: 1.11 wounds

but wait, the comparison gets even worse! A 6+ fnp against those damage 2 hits even in the heavy bolter comparison makes the advanage of flinging D2 at our poor W2 biker-bois much less effective, as any time you roll 1 of your FNPs (roughly 30% chance of at least 1 6 with 2 dice) you cause a model to survive a D2 hit, which means the next wound GUARANTEED only does 1 damage to the squad. The averages don't tell the whole story here.

In terms of your tanks, ATC almost ALWAYS works out better simply because most antitank weapons are just not Ap-1 or Ap-2, and the mini-transhuman may not help you out much but when it does block a +1 to wound ability, it is quite nice. Realistically RC is really only likely to be better when youre looking at units like Acolytes, who don't get the 6+FNP from Convoy...but you're playing Rusted Claw, what are you doing if youre not spamming vehicles and bikes? Play a cult with good melee support!

So, maybe RC's trait isn't great - what about the rest of its goodies? Well...bad news, theyre also among the more lackluster of the core cults.

The standout is probably Inescapable Decay. Unlike our melee attacks, the shooting weapons we're armed with typically *do* like to have an extra point of AP here and there, particularly stuff like Autocannons, Shotguns/bike small arms, seismic cannons...even mining lasers going to AP-4 can be useful if your opponent is dumb enough to field a non-invuln'd vehicle. Psh. Non-invulned vehicles. In 9th edition? As if. Maybe in a mirror match.

The nomad's mantle is another obvious 'put me on a patriarch' relic, though I will say...fething hilarious on a Kelermorph as well. The warlord trait is...fine, but again our main melee HQ and AP? Gee thanks, my claws are AP-7 now on a 6! Drive-By Demolitions is no longer a source of additional movement, and serves mostly as an amusing little capability than as something really impactful. Fun fact: A unit of RC jackals can throw demo charges in 3/6 phases of the game turn if they want to, and you bought them 3.

Overall, while I don't think RC is a "Burn Your Models, Youve Been Robbed" scenario, from a competitive standpoint I think it is the core cult with the least to recommend it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Twisted Helix

Again we continue the theme of "Part of the creed is available as custom." In this case, it's definitely the least important part of the creed though, the mini-transhuman, and the most important parts, the +1" move and +1S, are totally unique to the Twisted Helix.

This. Is. The. Cult. For. Genestealers! Don't be fooled by the Aberrant-specific stratagem, holy CRAP does this cult just turn those purestrains into blenders of instant and bloody death.

4++, mini-transhuman defenses. +1" movement for 9" move+Advance+charge threat range. That crucial S4->S5 bump granting a wound shift against so many targets. WOOF. Pair them up with a Patriarch who can have the Jazz Hands of Death (Bio-Alchemist Trait and S6 base from the creed) and exploding 6s to hit and 5++ FNP from the prime specimen relic, and you can have a fast, killy, deadly horde of rough tough customers.

There are ostensibly a few buffs on hand for Aberrants, and of course since youll want the extra free enhancement on your Patriarch youll probably take him, so itd probably be worth bringing 5 aberrants for the initial on-board use of the biophagus' special rule. Monstrous Bio-Horrors isnt the worst strat in the world, occasionally you might end up against a horde of something and youll want to just cleave up some guys, so it adds a bit of flexibility, but mostly youd take the squad just to get a guaranteed 5+FNP enhancement on the turn the biophagus drops down.

The biophagus isn't BAD just to use on Acolytes on the turn they drop, since Acolytes are one of the few units where the AP- roll isn't a bit of a sad trombone note, but hey, its twisted helix, aberrants are cool, live a little.

Mutagenic Deviation is a fairly solid psychic buff power, combos nicely with Might from Beyond as yet another tool that turns those genestealers into absolute beastmode shredding machines. All in all, this is a creed where outside of the iffy strat, it's pretty easy to make use of every part of the four-armed mutated muscle-bound buffalo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pauper Princes

Remember Hivecult's general army setup? Neophytes on foot in 20-blocks instead of in trucks, Acolyte Squidward waving his flag and resurrecting dudes, Primus handing out shooting buffs cus hey a bunch of CORE on the battlefield, that whole thing?

PP is that, but with Defenses.

The all-important, traited-up, relic'd up Primus returns, this time with the Reliquary of Saint Tenndarc and the Xenoprophet trait so that he can just never be killed until you kill all his Neophyte buddies - you can go for Alien Majesty to extend his auras out to 9" for more flexibility but you probably want to bring a Locus along with him to keep him from ever getting shot because he IS important and he DOES just have a 5+ save.

The list setup here is probably a bunch of jackals providing a screen for those aforementioned bunch of neophytes, and a couple, maybe just one unit of close combat stuff of some sort looking to get in and get frisky to make use of the +1 to hit part of the trait. Overall a good cult for a mix of shooting and melee if you don't like having to buy a bunch of trucks.

Strat sucks. Sadly/not that sadly most of the cult-specific stratagems aren't exactly game changers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bladed Cog

Silly Helix, Aberrants are for Cogs!

Bladed Cog has unfortunately lost its move and shoot capability, which does mean that the bladed cog neophyte squad in a truck is probably not what it once was, but fortunately you do have synergy with a unit that is genuinely very effective now, which is your Jackal bikers. A bladed cog list with a lot of jackals packing 1 mining laser to make use of the BC re-roll makes for a very good mobile scoring core for the list, while the melee bomb portion of the list I advise a setup maybe like this:

Biophagus (15pt upgrade)
10x Hybrid Metamorphs (exploding 6s from the Biophagus upgrade)
10x Aberrants (Biophagus grants them a 5+FNP when he drops in with them, also purchase them a 5++ for 2CP)
Magus (Broodvolt Surge to make it more obnoxious for your opponent to clear out your melee guys the turn after they drop in)

I do think that the main draw for this cult is the power and the stratagem, the relic and trait are just..not amazing, comparative to other more utility focused traits/relics...mostly because if you bring that magus in deep strike he is most likely just going to be providing a wound reroll for you to kill something that with 10 metamorphs and 10 aberrants is already going to be super, super, super, super dead anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
CT4AE

AKA "The Wildcard Guys." Seriously what a weird wild mix of stuff. They've lost the vaunted Vect of yesteryear, instead now having the 0CP 'make your opponent spend 1-2 more CP' thing that you use on Transhuman or Fire and Fade or whatever. Their trait is bizarrely schitzophrenic, with their melee units getting a charge reroll while their range units want to stay away - pretty solid with the classic army comp of having a basic core of truck neophytes and ridgerunners holding the line until the turn 2 deep strike melee units come in. Their relic is...a general grievous joke? 4 additional attacks, autowounds on a 6...I mean you obviously put it on a Primus to make him do stuff in melee, but, still weird. And the trait is a "Moar CP" thing, albeit a good one, because its just guaranteed, you dont have to roll to get your once per turn 1cp bonus.

The psychic power is kind of neat, too, a good way to keep units at bay while you wait for your own melee forces to arrive.

All in all, this cult is just...a little bit of everything. None of it is especially bad, just weird. And probably optimized for more TAC play than tournament players typically get up to, so I doubt we'll see much of it on the competitive stage as they opt more for the wacky "I ebayed 24 Heavy Rock Cutters for my Industrial Affinity+Reroll Charge acolyte spam army" and leave aside all the funky extra stuff that CT4AE lets them bring to the table.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 17:43:47


Post by: Yarium


I'm thinking of doing a largely CC-bend for my first game.

Patriarch
Primus
3x 5-man's with Cutters
3x Goliath Rock Grinders
2x 10-man Neophytes with Seismic Cannons and Grenade Launchers
2x Goliath Trucks
3x 10-man Purestrains (1 w/They Came From Below)
1x 15-man Hand Flamer Acolytes w/6x Rock Saws & A Trap Sprung
Reductus Sabotuer w/Relic Pistol of Crossfire
Sanctus w/Relic Sniper

Traits I'm thinking of for this are:
- Reroll 1 wound roll per unit.
- Ignore hit modifiers
- 6+ FnP on vehicles.

I'm thinking of maybe switching up 2 of the units of Stealers for 2x 2-man units of Ridgerunners, because the Ridgerunners will benefit from the traits more.

I REALLY like Industrial Affinity because it means you're always Crossfiring at 3+ to hit. I'm looking to use the Sanctus to set up the Crossfire chain (automatically applies it to one target, then next unit targets that same one with the killy stuff, and targets a 2nd unit with the not-killy stuff in order to apply a Crossfire token THERE).


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 17:53:52


Post by: Ordana


re-read the crossfire rules. You can't split fire and apply markers.

And why the relic Sniper? Do you value +1 damage that much? Because that is all it does.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 17:59:22


Post by: Acehilator


No split fire to generate Crossfire markers. If you want to use Crossfire at all, Nexos with Cranial Inlay relic is the first thing you put into your army.

Re: Bladed Cog. Relic goes on an Abo. No questions asked.

/edit: And yeah, if you want the Sanctus on Crossfire duty, don't waste a relic on him. +12" range, -1 AP and +1D is nice, but we have too many great ones.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 18:04:49


Post by: the_scotsman


Acehilator wrote:
No split fire to generate Crossfire markers. If you want to use Crossfire at all, Nexos with Cranial Inlay relic is the first thing you put into your army.


Seems like you can get pretty good crossfire chains going with Sanctus+Jackal Alphus. Jackal seems really good in a shooty list just because in my experience, crossfire is easy...Exposed is HARD, so its nice to be able to set it up on demand.

Sanctus+Nexos does seem pretty good for Crossfire setup though. Seems like youd get basically all you need there.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 18:10:23


Post by: Ordana


Alphus only works if your using Neophytes on foot, can't buff inside trucks and Neophytes out of trucks just die unless your running big blops

Not being able to effect Ridgerunners really hurts the usefullness of the Alphus.

For exposed I would look to Jackals. Both for being fast to move around something and because of the strat to give a unit within 6" expose for the rest of your army


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 18:37:08


Post by: the_scotsman


Acehilator wrote:


Re: Bladed Cog. Relic goes on an Abo. No questions asked.



Ahhh, yep, forgot about the Abominant. If you are gonna use him the 4++ relic is pretty solid as a pickup, gives even more of your list that absurd hyper-durable invuln+damage reduction+5+FNP profile.

Shame he's still so unreliable in combat, though of course the BC reroll trait will work nicely on him.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 19:06:05


Post by: Acehilator


Abo has a hit/wound reroll build-in with his familiar (it's permanent like the Sanctus familiar), so he gets two as BC.

Alphus is still good for Crossfire duty. It's 10 points more and less reliable than the Sanctus, but you cannot double up on the latter, and you might want three Crossfire per turn. Also redundancy, covering more angles (14" move), and double-up with the Sanctus to remove squishy support characters (*cough* upcoming CWE *cough*). "Priority Target" is just a bonus.

Another cool unit to trigger Crossfire are Rockgrinders with Clearance Incinerator - 2d6 autohits plus one or two hits from the Heavy Stubber, pretty reliable.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 22:14:39


Post by: Cephalobeard


PP 5++ Build with 2 Nexos, 2 Iconwards, 3x20 Neos with banners and seismics, 3x10 Jackals, 3x15 Acos with Drills.

Absolutely loving the look of it.

Upset the Patriarch doesnt buff anything and is just a beatstick now.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 22:57:01


Post by: Acehilator


Character cap one each per detachment, not really worth paying 2 CP to double up I think.

- Patriarch is better than ever. Purestrains don't need his aura anymore, and immunity to morale is not a thing in 9E anymore, either. 4++ and know two/cast two psychic powers is amazeballs. One less unit to juggle aura coverage with = absolute win.

- Jackal max. unit size is 9 (3-7 bikes, max. two Quads)

- both large Jackal units and 15 blobs of Acos have a footprint problem, really not sure if you want five of those

- playing PP without the unkillable Patriarch (PP WL trait) seems like a waste


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/11 23:24:10


Post by: Cephalobeard


Its a Battalion and a Patrol.

Absolutely worth it, lets you extend the relic to all 3 Jackal units across the table.

“Better than ever” is a little broad of a claim, he’s definitely a strong singular unit but his lack of utility compared to a Primus for PP specifically is a shame.

No. Jackal units are 10. 8 Bikes (1 Leader), 2 Quads, just like the boxes they come in.

You likely lose enough models that a “footprint” isnt going to be an issue with GSC.

Primus has more value, and the moment you’re spreading the relic aura to more units the value of a Pat goes down.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/12 00:10:56


Post by: Niiai


I am atempting to build some new GSC. It is based on the old list that I cad some suckess with in 9th edition, with the 8th edition codex. But I am over points and I am not happy with it. If you don't want to read my rmabelings I have put it in a spoiler. Suggestions are welcome, I am on a bit of a loss.

Spoiler:

That list was based around goliath trucks with acolytes with handflamers in them. Ridgerunners and Sanctus as fire support. I ditched all other characters as they would just get sniped by the lokal meta. (An ork player with 2 dakkajets.) I used CP to get one unit into melee relable from reserves.

In this new list I have tryed some new elements. Small units of accolytes with handflamers to show up turn 2 and 3 to give exsposed. Sanctus and Jackal Alphus are there to give crossfire tokens. (They can also threaten characters with sniping.) What else is new is that Abberants are now quite good, so they have replaced the accolytes as the premium melee unit.

* Abberants should be able to get a charge from reserve on 3d6, 8" charge. Thanks A to trap sprung.
* 5 units of abberant goes in goliath truck 1 with the patriarch. (Feels bad when it explodes.) Our time is night gives them ekstra attacks on the first fight.
* Other truck has the 10 man unit of accolytes.
* 6 man purestrain unit goes with rockgrinder to have a bigger threath range when they charge from it.
* Biophagus with Alechemist Supreme can inject the 5 man group of abberants pregame, and when he deploys with the 10 man unit of abberants he can inject them as well. I am thinking enchance resillience for that 5+++. Beastial Vigor, T5 and 3 wounds shouled hopefully be sturdy.

I am not sett on creed yet. But War convoy will be good. I really love Agile Gurilla for the vehicles , or impasisoned for the melee units. I would love to tune the list a bit more.

315 points for the fat unit of abberants feels to much, to many eggs in one basket. The Patriarch also feels redudant here. With so many melee ellements I fear people will just do counter offensive and counter him.

I would like to find more points for another transport with either purestrains or acolytes with flamers. Perhaps even a minimum unit of ridgerunners to give exsposed. Nexos could be good to give CP, but I don't know where to hide him.

HQ
1x Patriarch. 140
1x Jackal Alphus. 80

Troops
5x accolytes, 5x hand flamers. 60
5x accolytes, 5x hand flamers. 60
5x accolytes, 5x hand flamers. 60
10x acolytes, 6x hand flamers, 4x mining weapons. 148

Elites
10x Abberants, A Trap Sprung. 315
5x Abberants, Our Time is Nigh. 160
6x Purestrain Genestealers. 84
1x Biophagus, Alchemist Supreme. 55
1x Sanctus. 80 (gets crossfire from sniper rifle)
1x Reductus Sabotour. 80 (with relic gun to give crossifre)

Fast Attack
3x Ridgerunner, Heavy Mining Laser. 240
3x Ridgerunner, Heavy Mining Laser. 240

Heavy Support
1x Rockgrinder. 110

Dedicated Transport
1x Goliath Truck. 90
1x Goliath Truck. 90

2092/2000



On a review I realise that I have cut a lot of accolytes with flamers from the 8th edition list for abberants and purestrains. I don't know, maibe I am meandering to far from where I begun. Abberants and purestrains just look so good now! And the rockgrinder is nice.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/12 01:50:24


Post by: the_scotsman


Acehilator wrote:
Character cap one each per detachment, not really worth paying 2 CP to double up I think.

- Patriarch is better than ever. Purestrains don't need his aura anymore, and immunity to morale is not a thing in 9E anymore, either. 4++ and know two/cast two psychic powers is amazeballs. One less unit to juggle aura coverage with = absolute win.

- Jackal max. unit size is 9 (3-7 bikes, max. two Quads)

- both large Jackal units and 15 blobs of Acos have a footprint problem, really not sure if you want five of those

- playing PP without the unkillable Patriarch (PP WL trait) seems like a waste


7 jackals plus jackal leader plus 2 quads = 10.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/12 02:37:02


Post by: Eldenfirefly


I feel that I need to understand better what's GSC's overall strategy. It feels like the whole crossfire rules and blips and ambush shenanegans is meant to facilitate shooting, stealing objectives and such.

So, GSC should mainly focus more on its shooting? Because you don't really benefit from crossfire if you are fielding a mostly melee army right? But one problem with GSC is that a lot of the units are quite fragile. So, you might get some good shooting in, but you aren't going to have the staying power to just keep on shooting all 5 rounds. I feel that you simply won't last.

So, what's the GSC strategy? Use cross fire rules to shoot off opponents from objectives and then steal objectives off. Do we aim for like mutual destruction where we kill a lot but we die quickly as well, but manage to squeeze out wins because we are stealing away objectives while we are killing ?

Or is it more of, we don't mind losing most of our army (because its fragile), but we will win by VP by the end of the game because we have too much of a lead in points because of our GSC shenenagons.

Or is it we aim to use cross fire and GSC rules and the strength of our codex to outright obliterate so much of the opponents army in earlier turns such that there is no way for them to come back. So, we are aiming to hit our opponent so hard they will be out for the count.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/12 02:52:07


Post by: Cephalobeard


The fun part is there is a perfectly viable cult for shooting, melee, mixed, etc

You can quite literally pick an aspect of the game you want to try to focus on and be just as viable. Its a genuinely fluid codex.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/12 03:11:36


Post by: the_scotsman


Eldenfirefly wrote:

So, GSC should mainly focus more on its shooting? Because you don't really benefit from crossfire if you are fielding a mostly melee army right? But one problem with GSC is that a lot of the units are quite fragile. So, you might get some good shooting in, but you aren't going to have the staying power to just keep on shooting all 5 rounds. I feel that you simply won't last.
.


you know honestly the impression i got from the game I tried was: That's not actually true anymore. We have genuinely tough vehicles, bikers, genestealers, aberrants...even a squad of Neophytes with One with Shadows and a 5+FNP buff from a biophagus weathered insane firepower and lost like 4 models. I'm talking literally a dakka redemptor dread and like 6 assault bolter intercessors+5 infiltrators all in a captain aura.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/12 12:19:00


Post by: quantumgravity


Is it confirmed that the industrial melee weapons in acolytes teams are reduced to 1/5/type?


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/12 12:25:31


Post by: Ordana


quantumgravity wrote:
Is it confirmed that the industrial melee weapons in acolytes teams are reduced to 1/5/type?
No, the evil DG writer did not touch our codex, Acolytes are still 2 heavy weapons per 5.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/12 12:43:06


Post by: quantumgravity


Sorry, I meant that now we can only take 1 saw/cutter/drill, for 2 acolytes. So any combination of 2 of the industrial melee and not 2x as before


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/12 12:48:32


Post by: Ordana


quantumgravity wrote:
Sorry, I meant that now we can only take 1 saw/cutter/drill, for 2 acolytes. So any combination of 2 of the industrial melee and not 2x as before
no, any 2 you want. duplicates are fine.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/12 13:19:30


Post by: Tyel


 Cephalobeard wrote:
The fun part is there is a perfectly viable cult for shooting, melee, mixed, etc

You can quite literally pick an aspect of the game you want to try to focus on and be just as viable. Its a genuinely fluid codex.


Its unlikely to play out that way competitively.

I feel if GSC have a weakness - and so the Codex doesn't prove as powerful as some expect - its in that its hard to do a boring A+B+C=overpowered.
I think you do need multiple parts - and unlike say DE, the power is in the synergy rather than raw numbers.

Genestealers for instance are undoubtedly good against any T that matches their S. But I feel they start to drop off quite badly once they are wounding on 5s and only doing one damage. Without Helix that means they'll have issues with Custodes and DG Terminators - never mind vehicles/monsters with T6+. Compare this with say Incubi who can chop through basically anything in a reasonably efficient way. They are not as point and click as I feel some commentators have made out.

I want to like a Pauper Prince list, with a Neophyte firebase blob under a 5++, while Acolytes/Metamorphs/Abbs go punch units on objectives. But I'm not sure I do in a strictly competitive sense. Mainly I think because its fiddly - and that usually means things can go wrong.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/12 14:37:06


Post by: Tiberius501


With neophytes, is it better to just take heavy weapons and forget about the special weapons? I would imagine though that a blob of shotguns with 4 webbers could be pretty cool tho


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/12 15:47:14


Post by: Niiai


I don't really know Neophytes role in the new codex. The overload stratagem is what makes the seismic cannon interesting to me.

The shotgun Neophytes that arrive within 3 is a good one time objective grabb. Especially if the opponent tries to counterplay against it the rest of your cult can take advantage of odd positioning.

Somebody will have to run the numbers, but I suspect outside of very spesific build where you give Neophytes 5++ acolytes with flamers will just be better. With the exception of beeing sturdy.

People have talked about trucks with laser Neophytes in them. And I just think that sounds like bad fire trucks or bad ridge runners.

As for special weapons I would be supriced if they are much good. The grenade launcher can hang out at that 24 range, but is it any good? Perhaps mimum units of Neophytes with double flamer to give crossfire token and exposed that survive a bit more then the corresponding acolyte group. 70 points VS 60, double number of wounds.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/12 16:50:37


Post by: Acehilator


Uses for Neophytes (if you don't want to lean heavily into them) would be action monkey/backfield screen only, I guess.

For Neophyte hordes, PP and RC are the top picks.

RC has more output from the Industrial weapons and better movement, PP has 5++ everywhere it counts with the relic. But with their special rule, RC is still on a 5+ vs AP 0/-1.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/12 17:58:09


Post by: the_scotsman


 Niiai wrote:
I don't really know Neophytes role in the new codex. The overload stratagem is what makes the seismic cannon interesting to me.

The shotgun Neophytes that arrive within 3 is a good one time objective grabb. Especially if the opponent tries to counterplay against it the rest of your cult can take advantage of odd positioning.

Somebody will have to run the numbers, but I suspect outside of very spesific build where you give Neophytes 5++ acolytes with flamers will just be better. With the exception of beeing sturdy.

People have talked about trucks with laser Neophytes in them. And I just think that sounds like bad fire trucks or bad ridge runners.

As for special weapons I would be supriced if they are much good. The grenade launcher can hang out at that 24 range, but is it any good? Perhaps mimum units of Neophytes with double flamer to give crossfire token and exposed that survive a bit more then the corresponding acolyte group. 70 points VS 60, double number of wounds.


Neophytes' role is as a trickier to kill heavy weapon platform than Ridgerunners, which can also do actions, clear chaff, grab points, get buffs, etc.

In trucks, they're fantastic for snagging both Crossfire and Exposed, as the truck itself can score them a crossfire token and there are a number of ways to make them quite mobile.

Obviously, the other variant way to use Neophytes is as the core of a Hivecult or PP blob list, but for most armies they seem pretty solid as a sustained combat unit.

2x Seismics plus a goliath puts out a large amount of damage flat 2 firepower, and low-S weapons seem to benefit quite heavily from exposed.

Webbers dont seem all that bad to me, either. IDK. Seemed to me the second i pointed them at a MEQ, even a cheap one, they instantly made their 10 points back. Definitely agree the GL is pretty crap, the flamer seems a bit better. People are talking about acolytes in trucks with hand flamers, but:

5x HF acolytes: 17.5 S3 autohits
10x shotgun neophytes with 2x flamers: 70pts, 17 S4 hits (7 autohits) which in this army actually scales up more than it scales down thanks to Crossfire +1 to hit....also once they get cracked out of their transport, they're nearly doubly as difficult to kill and almost half their firepower hinges on killing the last 2 wounds.

Another point of comparison is Jackals: 10 man squad with 2x mining lasers is 174, Neophyte squad with 2x lasers in a truck is 180. The Jackals have extra special rules, but the first 10 wounds you have to do to even get to removing the shotguns/lasers has to go through T6 3+ -1 damage. And that's not even to mention the fact that the neos get an extra 4 autocannon shots+stubber.

Neos seem pretty competent to me. Obviously, dependent on subfaction, the "advance and still do everything" subfaction traits favor them heavily, as does the obvious PP/Hivecult. But that's no different than any unit in 9e.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/12 19:57:14


Post by: Niiai


 JNAProductions wrote:
Spoiler:
 Ordana wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
KurtAngle2 wrote:
The day I'll do fewer hits than 5 on auto hitting 5D6s I'll let you know
if your trying to be cheap you bring 3 flamers for still an almost guaranteed 5 hits. 2 flamers + 3 pistols is probably not good enough but I havn't done the math on that.
Are they BS 3+ or 4+? Assuming 3+...

Numbers are as follows:

99.97% chance of 5+ hits from 4d6 Flamer hits and 1 pistol shot.
99.59% chance of 5+ hits from 3d6 Flamer hits and 2 pistol shots.
96.30% chance of 5+ hits from 2d6 Flamer hits and 3 pistol shots.
77.78% chance of 5+ hits from 1d6 Flamer hits and 4 pistol shots.
13.17% chance of 5+ hits from 5 pistol shots alone.

Two Flamers seems like the sweet spot, actually.
They are 4+ base and I wouldn't assume Crossfire because that is what your trying to trigger. Should still be good with 2, tho I would probably still go 3 just to be really sure unless you desperately need the 3 points elsewhere.

 Niiai wrote:
Why does not rusted claw avoid the - 1 from heavy weapons? Is it a spesific wording for GSC? Arriving from reserves count as a normal move. Rusted claw count as remaining stationary until the end of the shooting phase.

With athelan jackals beeing fairly cheap and sturdy for their price they can just sipp back on the back end of the table and try to trigger exposed. Those and ridge runners are probably the most movement per unit for points. 4 jackals can also. Space out quite wide.

I just had a hilarious thought of not taking anything but small infnatery to make the opponents heavy weapons really suck. Just supercost every unit starting on the board with 'they came from below' and suddenly you have a pre game move on all units. Sort of like Necrons have (expansionist, is that what they are called?)
The unit upgrades are unique. can't give 2 units the same one or give 1 unit two upgrades.


4+ Base? NEW MATH!

0 Flamers......3.13%
1 Flamers......66.67%
2 Flamers......93.75%
3 Flamers......99.31%
4 Flamers......99.96%
5 Flamers......100%


What is the math on 10 neophytes, 2 with flamers? Somewhere a lot hier then 2 flamers i assume. The different in points is 51 points vs 70 points (so quite a lot.) But you have 10 wounds vs 5 wounds.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/12 20:01:02


Post by: JNAProductions


 Niiai wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Spoiler:
 Ordana wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
KurtAngle2 wrote:
The day I'll do fewer hits than 5 on auto hitting 5D6s I'll let you know
if your trying to be cheap you bring 3 flamers for still an almost guaranteed 5 hits. 2 flamers + 3 pistols is probably not good enough but I havn't done the math on that.
Are they BS 3+ or 4+? Assuming 3+...

Numbers are as follows:

99.97% chance of 5+ hits from 4d6 Flamer hits and 1 pistol shot.
99.59% chance of 5+ hits from 3d6 Flamer hits and 2 pistol shots.
96.30% chance of 5+ hits from 2d6 Flamer hits and 3 pistol shots.
77.78% chance of 5+ hits from 1d6 Flamer hits and 4 pistol shots.
13.17% chance of 5+ hits from 5 pistol shots alone.

Two Flamers seems like the sweet spot, actually.
They are 4+ base and I wouldn't assume Crossfire because that is what your trying to trigger. Should still be good with 2, tho I would probably still go 3 just to be really sure unless you desperately need the 3 points elsewhere.

 Niiai wrote:
Why does not rusted claw avoid the - 1 from heavy weapons? Is it a spesific wording for GSC? Arriving from reserves count as a normal move. Rusted claw count as remaining stationary until the end of the shooting phase.

With athelan jackals beeing fairly cheap and sturdy for their price they can just sipp back on the back end of the table and try to trigger exposed. Those and ridge runners are probably the most movement per unit for points. 4 jackals can also. Space out quite wide.

I just had a hilarious thought of not taking anything but small infnatery to make the opponents heavy weapons really suck. Just supercost every unit starting on the board with 'they came from below' and suddenly you have a pre game move on all units. Sort of like Necrons have (expansionist, is that what they are called?)
The unit upgrades are unique. can't give 2 units the same one or give 1 unit two upgrades.


4+ Base? NEW MATH!

0 Flamers......3.13%
1 Flamers......66.67%
2 Flamers......93.75%
3 Flamers......99.31%
4 Flamers......99.96%
5 Flamers......100%


What is the math on 10 neophytes, 2 with flamers? Somewhere a lot hier then 2 flamers i assume. The different in points is 51 points vs 70 points (so quite a lot.) But you have 10 wounds vs 5 wounds.
At work. I used Anydice to check my math, but I can get the numbers to you once I’m out.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/12 20:08:03


Post by: Niiai


Well, assuming that all neophytes are in range to shoot twice (12") I think the question is will one flamer be enough, or should you get two?

With one handflamer and 4 guns you have 1d6 autohits and 4 bs4. But with one flamer on neophytes you get 1d6 autohits and 18 bs4.

10 bs 4+ should have 50% to get 5 hits. 20 bs+ 4 should have 75% to get 5 hits. But the flamer throws me off.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/13 02:06:18


Post by: Keramory


No one is talking about our most improved unit so I'll hint my excitement with this video on YT:




I'm waiting for next week to test out some lists with them. 8th was fun but it felt wrong that no one would even consider the most iconic unit of the faction. Now they look durable and deadly. Especially with decent terrain on the board. I don't see many armies being able to get rid of 2-3 squads of these by T1. I know everyone is excited for our new faction buffs but man I was sold on our elite's improvements.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/13 04:04:05


Post by: Niiai


Edit: Tried to write something funny, but bad judgment told me it probably was not funny.

Glad to see hype around the codex.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/13 04:47:18


Post by: hangnailnz


Niiai, a single 4+ to hit is 50%, but the more rolls you have the more it groups to the average. For example, the chances of rolling at least one hit from 2 dice is 75% and at least one hit on 3 dice is 87.5%.
Now working out the probability of getting at least 5 hits from 10 or 20 rolls is bit beyond me right now, but the chances of having 16 fails from 20 attempts would be a lot smaller than 25%. Doing it manually is a matter of working out the number of possible combinations, and then the number of combinations that qualify.
The automatic hits are easier, because there are less of them... so there is a 16% chance of each result on a single D6 (so one flamer will give you 5+ hits one third of the time), and actually the chance of rolling less than 5 on 2D6 is also 16%.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/13 05:20:18


Post by: JNAProductions


Assuming Rapid Fire...

2 Flamers, 8 Autoguns: 99.99% chance
1 Flamer, 9 Autoguns: 99.92% chance
0 Flamers, 10 Autoguns: 99.41% chance


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/13 11:31:27


Post by: Niiai


10 autoguns is 99,41% chance? I got to read up on my probability.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/13 12:29:55


Post by: tneva82


 Niiai wrote:
10 autoguns is 99,41% chance? I got to read up on my probability.


Odds of rolling 16 1-3 from 20 dice is pretty low.

6 dice fishing for 1+ 6=70% or so odds.



Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/13 12:59:53


Post by: Tyel


The odds of 20 BS4+ shots causing no hits is 1/2^20. Which is about 1 in a million.
The odds of 1 hit is 1/2^20*20. Which is... 20 times better - but still very low.
The odds of 2 hits is 1/2^20*190.
The odds of 3 hits is 1/2^20*1140
The odds of 4 hits is 1/2^20*4845.

Put another way - of all the 1048576 outcomes, 6196 result in you not getting 5 or more hits. Which means you have a 99.41% chance to do it.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/13 16:06:52


Post by: Tiberius501


So, I’m assuming the mining laser is still the best weapon option for the ridgerunners?


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/13 16:39:36


Post by: Acehilator


The rockets are really good at anti-Elite (value drops slightly if proliferation of -1D continues). You just need a true anti-tank solution in your army, and preferably not only melee. Which only leaves three options. And I think the Ridgerunner is quite a bit better than the Rockgrinder with Heavy Seismic. Neophytes are cool too, obviously.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/13 17:10:39


Post by: Ordana


 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, I’m assuming the mining laser is still the best weapon option for the ridgerunners?
d3 shots doing d6 damage is simply to unreliable.
a constant 3 shots with 3 damage is slightly less but much more consistent. Which is what, imo, matters in the long run.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/13 17:24:54


Post by: JNAProductions


 Ordana wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, I’m assuming the mining laser is still the best weapon option for the ridgerunners?
d3 shots doing d6 damage is simply to unreliable.
a constant 3 shots with 3 damage is slightly less but much more consistent. Which is what, imo, matters in the long run.
I mean...

2 shots at d6 damage is 7 damage on average, if everything hits/wounds/fails saves.
3 shots at 3 damage is 9, under the same circumstances.

Sure, d3 at Dd6 can spike to 18 damage, but it can also whiff more easily, as you allude to in the quoted post.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/13 17:53:21


Post by: Niiai


The ridgerunners where soe of the best things in the 8th edition codex that stood the tooth of time. One thing that made them stand out was getting BS+ bonus from the alphus and the stratagem. Overload mining weapons on one unit for +1 to the samage roll you often hit on 3+ and wounded on 2+ witch was good. Even with 1d3 shots and 1d6 damage.

The second thing that was good was the raking fire stratagem that gave you +1 to hit and +1 to wound.

A lot of that juice is replaced by the crossfire keyword. So asuming you can trigger it turn 2 and 3 with deepstrike a lot of other units can benefit from the juice that the ridgerunners had.

Rocket launcher ridgerunners with 3 D3 shots or just amazing, but is kept back with S6. A good comparison could be the goliath rockgrinder shortrange seismic cannon.

Anyway, mad rambeling and conparisons aside I think the overload mining weapons stratagem is stil good on ridgerunners in a big group. 1d6+1 damage is quite good. Getting 1 ekstra point of T and the crossfire keyword for 5 points is a good upgrade.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/13 18:00:16


Post by: Tyel


Reckon there's a chance they could FAQ the Mortar to have 3D6 shots?

Maybe that would be a bit good in the context of Crossfire. But 1D6 is a joke.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/13 19:00:22


Post by: Ordana


Tyel wrote:
Reckon there's a chance they could FAQ the Mortar to have 3D6 shots?

Maybe that would be a bit good in the context of Crossfire. But 1D6 is a joke.
No, they don't faq weapons to be better.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/13 21:09:00


Post by: Tyel


 Ordana wrote:
No, they don't faq weapons to be better.


Well yes, it wasn't that serious.

It just seems weird the mortar is so obviously terrible.

I think the missile is probably fractionally better for less randomness and reliable 3 damage into elite infantry. The laser is better versus T7+ - but as you point out, so much can go wrong (and statistically, it will.)


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/13 21:15:53


Post by: Madjob


 Ordana wrote:
Tyel wrote:
Reckon there's a chance they could FAQ the Mortar to have 3D6 shots?

Maybe that would be a bit good in the context of Crossfire. But 1D6 is a joke.
No, they don't faq weapons to be better.


Except for that time at the start of 9th edition when they did (unless you're niggling on the use of FAQ when he clearly meant errata in which case of course not.)


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/14 06:04:30


Post by: dreadlybrew


Are we limited in the amount of bonus abilities we can buy for our units. Like can I buy more than 1 excavation and bury my opponents in no cover difficult terrain?


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/14 10:30:30


Post by: Ordana


dreadlybrew wrote:
Are we limited in the amount of bonus abilities we can buy for our units. Like can I buy more than 1 excavation and bury my opponents in no cover difficult terrain?
each upgrade can only be taken once and a unit cannot have more then 1 upgrade.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/15 02:18:47


Post by: Lord Clinto


I'm so happy that Patriarchs and Purestrains get <Cult> now...that really ground my gears in the previous codex.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/15 02:24:41


Post by: dreadlybrew


Ridge runners that get to fall back and shoot in hivecult is da bomb


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/15 09:49:31


Post by: Niiai


Ironically, if you have rocket ridge runners you can fire them all in melee. I guess they are krak based and not frag. :-)


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/15 13:47:01


Post by: Tiberius501


Can you still take Tyranid units with GSC? Because that would be cool.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/15 14:23:56


Post by: Niiai


Yes. You can take both, although you loose crossfire. Bar 25% Brood brothers, then you do not loose it.

This is all fine and dandy though. Most GSC adds to tyranids are not shooting based. (A magus for spells. Some acolytes for secindaries. Do the CP regen relic work for nids? Although leviatans already have it.)


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/15 20:28:32


Post by: Ordana


The CP relic would work but you can't get GSC relics unless you have a GSC warlord. Not even with the extra relic strat.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/17 02:19:23


Post by: Madjob


Got a chance to try out the codex. It's really easy to lose sight of your turn goals when juggling crossfire placement, on two separate occasions I needed to set one to turn off overwatch fire from a dangerous unit I was charging and mucked it up both times because I tunnel-visioned on what I wanted to accomplish in the shooting phase.

- Cranial Inlay Nexos and Exacting Planner Primus completely change how the army plays. It's pretty much a mandatory combination, dropping a RR1 to hit on Core and RR1 to wound on <Cult> anywhere on the board just gives you so much flexibility.
- I'm endorsing the Biophagus for anyone who is running Acolytes in squads larger than 5. All 3 buffs are appreciated on them so the random roll doesn't impact much. If you're running Twisted Helix I'd say he's mandatory, as he unlocks the potential of one of the two best relics to have on your Patriarch, and again Acolytes love his buffs and even more so when they're S5.
- I'm not sold on the Jackal Alphus outside of a mechanized-focused list. She needs a dedicated shooting unit that's on the board from the start of the turn.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/17 04:28:21


Post by: dreadlybrew


I'm throwing together a horde list with 120 neophytes with a total of 24 grenade launchers 24 seismic cannons and 2 icon wards.

The second detachment is a patrol for the second icon ward runs 3 5 man flamer acolytes for exposed, crossfire, and rods. Multiple Iconwards means 3x the regen.

Do I do hivecult for actions fall back and charge, pauper princes for the 5+ invuln or rusted claw for more advance and shoot? I still have 60ish points left for planning


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/17 09:25:06


Post by: Niiai


That is a good question.

First can I ask how on earth you have 24 seismic cannons? Also, someone on goonhammer pointed out that with the expose tokens the value of the grenade launcher as a weapon goes up much hier.

The pauper prince's is the 'default one' for neophyte spam. I think the aura increase works with the relic, so you have a 9" bubble with 5++. Good for 20 man squad of Neophytes.

My only consern is that you blob so big that rusted claws advance and shoot as stationary is better. (Meaning you hit on 4 and 3 instead of 5 and 4 on those seismic cannons. Who seem to be the start of the show.) You also short up the 24" range, wit h is not that long VS a gun line with anti infantery blast. You can also consider a custom cult with that very trait. Mini transhuman could be good on them.

If you have 60 points left (I do not know your list) Primus (multiple?) seems good. Nexos seems mandatory. Jackal and or Sanctus to put down tokens. Even the good doctor for 55 can give on if your Neophytes 5++. (Although he gets a 1 in 3 chance to mess things up after that.)


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/17 11:06:59


Post by: Ordana


Madjob wrote:
Got a chance to try out the codex. It's really easy to lose sight of your turn goals when juggling crossfire placement, on two separate occasions I needed to set one to turn off overwatch fire from a dangerous unit I was charging and mucked it up both times because I tunnel-visioned on what I wanted to accomplish in the shooting phase.

- Cranial Inlay Nexos and Exacting Planner Primus completely change how the army plays. It's pretty much a mandatory combination, dropping a RR1 to hit on Core and RR1 to wound on <Cult> anywhere on the board just gives you so much flexibility.
- I'm endorsing the Biophagus for anyone who is running Acolytes in squads larger than 5. All 3 buffs are appreciated on them so the random roll doesn't impact much. If you're running Twisted Helix I'd say he's mandatory, as he unlocks the potential of one of the two best relics to have on your Patriarch, and again Acolytes love his buffs and even more so when they're S5.
- I'm not sold on the Jackal Alphus outside of a mechanized-focused list. She needs a dedicated shooting unit that's on the board from the start of the turn.
A Mechanized focused list is ironically the place where an Alphus does not work. She can't buff RR's. She can't buff Neophytes in trucks. She just buffs Jackals and I don't think those need to be buffed when their use in a mechanised list is driving into the heart of the enemy to give Exposed to RR's and Rockgrinders.

The one unit an Alphus is good for is a footslogging Neophyte squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
dreadlybrew wrote:
I'm throwing together a horde list with 120 neophytes with a total of 24 grenade launchers 24 seismic cannons and 2 icon wards.

The second detachment is a patrol for the second icon ward runs 3 5 man flamer acolytes for exposed, crossfire, and rods. Multiple Iconwards means 3x the regen.

Do I do hivecult for actions fall back and charge, pauper princes for the 5+ invuln or rusted claw for more advance and shoot? I still have 60ish points left for planning
I think you need PP for the 5++. Without it 20 neophytes will not survive long enough, there is so much AP -1/2 in the game.

(also remember that while you can Summon the Cult multiple times your capped at 6 models in total for Neophytes.)


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/17 17:05:15


Post by: dreadlybrew


6 units of 20 with 4 each is 24, i have a healthy dose of allowing myself to proxy weapons. Models made is 12/12 mining lasers and siesemic cannons. But you can make little seismic cannon adding bits to make the mining lasers have the extra prongs to make them look like seismic cannons.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
And rusted claw doesn't really need to fear ap 1 and 2 when moving from cover to cover


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/17 22:09:24


Post by: Arbiter_Shade


I've played a handful of games now with the new book and I am having a hell of a hard time figuring out how to get exposed to work. Small suicide units seem to be the obvious choice but the issue I run into is that if I don't drop them in turn 1 or 2 that I do not have the target saturation to keep anything on the board alive, but if I drop them in turns 1 or 2 they have very little room to be placed in advantageous positions.

More and more as I play I just stop worrying about exposed and focus on the crossfire tokens as they are much easier to get and use. Heavy Clearance Incinerator Rockgrinders are amazing to ensure that I will get those crossfire tokens and when combined with Jackals I find it easier to get exposed, but it is always a suicide trade. I play Rusted Claw mostly and even with the bonus to armor saves everything in the army is so damn squishy.

I did play a 8 man squad of Aberrants with a Biophagus for the 5+++ and I have to say that I am impressed at how much they could tank. 3W with -1D is this magic combination that means D2 weapons are wasted on them and D3 weapons are wasted due to requiring two wounds to kill one body.

Neophytes are interesting in 20 man blobs with an icon. They have a lot of staying power purely by virtue of recoverable wounds, plus you can take your special weapons last meaning that you have a lot of ablative wounds to keep them useful late in the game.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/17 23:54:48


Post by: Keramory


I'm learning to stop caring about trying for exposed. It's nice when its there but after someone plays against GSC just once or twice you'll be hard pressed to get it off again.

I play similarly to 8th and use the stratagems/nexos to get off my crossfire reliably. If someones dumb enough to leave me able to jump behind them, great... if not, and likely not, then I'll just take the +1 to hit.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/17 23:55:50


Post by: Niiai


I have no good baseline to consider how to get exsporue. But during 9th edition I have certanly been many places on the board. I had great suckess with handflamers dropping in and deal damage. But perhaps cossfire token boosting us to a Bs3+ army for the most part is enough.

The deepstrike within 3" upgrade also make itmcuh easier. Perhaps you could do a long bike saussage?


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/18 00:41:19


Post by: Madjob


Obviously very table dependent but the requirement for exposed is pretty generous - line of sight between the two crossfire units and being able to draw a line between the two. You can have units on opposite sides of the table and so long as you can meet that, you have exposed. Most armies can manage to screen out 9" drops, but many will have trouble stopping you from bringing in dudes at 6".


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/18 01:42:24


Post by: the_scotsman


Hilarious timmy combo at ~1000pts level with Bladed Cog.

I had a 20-man neophyte squad, 4x Seismics, 4x GLs. icon in the squad. Primus with Singleminded. Magos with Stimulus+Mass Hyp. Biophagus with an Aberrant squad with A Trap Sprung. upgrade both Abbys and Neos with Bionics. Fill out the rest with Jackals and min aco squads for scoring.

Neophyte squad in light cover with Broodvolt Surge+one with the shadows = base 2+ save vs anti-chaff weaponry

Enemy aims good Ap weapons at them? 5++/5+FNP from the biophagus upgrade

Ties them up in melee? Psychic stimulus, fall back and shoot.

And d6 come back per turn. Hilarious setup. My opponent basically said "Oh no, it's 20 skitarii all over again!"


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/18 03:56:19


Post by: hangnailnz


I think exposed is easier to set up side-to-side across the board than straight from DZ to DZ in earlier rounds. We have some good fast options that can Scout and move up the flanks to enable them to get a crossfire + exposed in, and/or the From Every Angle squad coming in turn one. In later turns, dropping in small units of hand-flamers to grab Secondaries will tend to open up options for Exposed from DZ to DZ.
But Covering Fire and Coordinated Assault only require the token, not Exposed, to trigger.
I have been thinking about it and Prowling Agitant is a pretty amazing charge defence - especially if your opponent tries to multi-charge your character and a squad - it wouldn't be difficult to move far enough to make their charge either too long or illegal, and you will have still had the opportunity to Overwatch.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/18 06:07:26


Post by: Arbiter_Shade


I think that Jackals are probably one of the best units to get exposed to be honest, but it turns them into such a suicide squad that it almost feels like it isn't worth it. I guess in the end it doesn't matter, I have been having great success with GSC without even worrying about exposed. The army just feels good when playing but I am finding that heavy mining laser Ridgerunners are a bit disappointing. Ridgerunners in generally seem to just lack either staying power or punch, leaving them as just kind of meh.

Love heavy incenerator Rockgrinders though. Have had much success with them running up field as charge deterrents due to overwatch on top of being a good melee unit. Demo charges are cheap enough with a small Acolyte squad inside that they pack a good bit of punch on a semi-durable chassis.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/18 06:21:13


Post by: hangnailnz


Having another look at Hivecult, and to be honest, I was only thinking about the "Actions after Advancing or Falling Back, and with shooting" in relation to Secondaries, but I just had a lightbulb moment (forgive me if you saw this from the start) - this makes some of our characters a bit more of a mobile threat - The Reductus can move while she drops her booby trap, the Biophagus and Iconward can Advance if they need to to buff the right unit, and all of them can shoot - which given they are armed with autopistols isn't much, unless you give one the Oppressor' Bane, which gives them Crossfire and the chance to trigger the Stratagems if required.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/18 09:13:46


Post by: Ordana


The Saboteur can't move while doing an action, not even in Hive Cult.

2 things at play here.
You can't do actions after Advancing or Falling Back.
Hive Cult lets you ignore this.

And you can't move, shoot, psychic, charge ect while doing an action.
Hive Cult lets you shoot while doing an action, it does not allow you to move while doing an action.

Since the Saboteurs action is from Command Phase to End of Movement Phase she can't move and complete the action.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/18 10:28:22


Post by: Niiai


The jackals are core, are they not? If so you can use the good doctor to give them 5++ on top of the bonuses they already have. Regrow the wolf quad back is like SM apothecary all over again.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/18 14:28:51


Post by: Not Online!!!


Iconward is looking really fun imo. neo mass assault type lists certainly seem like an valid option.
And now i just kitbashed a biophagus medic for my count as GSC.

Anyways, does the custom trait that makes all wound rolls off 1/2 fail deny wound rerolls?

Also whats the opinion on the rifle sanctus, does his soulsight ability really just make him autohit with the rifle?


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/18 15:17:58


Post by: Arbiter_Shade


 Niiai wrote:
The jackals are core, are they not? If so you can use the good doctor to give them 5++ on top of the bonuses they already have. Regrow the wolf quad back is like SM apothecary all over again.


I mean, yes they are core but you are talking about a character with 6" movement attached to a unit with a 14" movement with a CHANCE of giving 5++. Of course you can use Alchemist Supreme to get it but I really don't think it is worth it on a T4 2W 5+ unit.

Also, unless you know something I don't the Biophagus can not bring models back. Though you can use an Iconward to do it....Hmm Lying in Wait on an Iconward with a couple of blobs of Jackals might be something to play with. Though I do wonder if the investment would be worth it.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/18 17:06:10


Post by: Ordana


Not Online!!! wrote:
Iconward is looking really fun imo. neo mass assault type lists certainly seem like an valid option.
And now i just kitbashed a biophagus medic for my count as GSC.

Anyways, does the custom trait that makes all wound rolls off 1/2 fail deny wound rerolls?

Also whats the opinion on the rifle sanctus, does his soulsight ability really just make him autohit with the rifle?
why would 1/2 fail deny re-rolls? It does exactly what it says, no more no less.

And yes a Sanctus automatically hits with his sniper rifle. And therefor automatically puts down a crossfire marker.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/18 17:09:16


Post by: Niiai


What unit do you using the alchemist supreme on? Most bang for your buck is a 10 man units of abberants. But the good doctor can just deeps trike with them and hand the buff out then. The real Beaty of the alchemist Supreme is that you get to choose, something your normally can not do on core. Atelan jackals are such a good allround unit. - 1 to hit. 2 wounds. Good movement. Fall back and charge. And you can regrow with the iconward later in the game. 2 wolf quads are 8 wounds if you roll a 3+. That sounds insane. Perhaps the iconward needs 'lying in wait'. Some playtesting needs to be done.

If course this is in a vacume. You would need a list where are of this fits in. Just the thought on regrowing 2 of the wolf quads with 5++ sounds nice.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/18 18:05:23


Post by: Not Online!!!


 Ordana wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Iconward is looking really fun imo. neo mass assault type lists certainly seem like an valid option.
And now i just kitbashed a biophagus medic for my count as GSC.

Anyways, does the custom trait that makes all wound rolls off 1/2 fail deny wound rerolls?

Also whats the opinion on the rifle sanctus, does his soulsight ability really just make him autohit with the rifle?
why would 1/2 fail deny re-rolls? It does exactly what it says, no more no less.

And yes a Sanctus automatically hits with his sniper rifle. And therefor automatically puts down a crossfire marker.

When someone rolls like, say 5 2/1s to wound you, will they still be automatically discarded or will a wound reroll effect override that.
That is my question.

Well the crossfire sanctus seems really solid then.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/18 21:42:25


Post by: MinMax


Not Online!!! wrote:
When someone rolls like, say 5 2/1s to wound you, will they still be automatically discarded or will a wound reroll effect override that.
That is my question.

They will still have the ability to reroll those wound rolls.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/18 22:23:28


Post by: Not Online!!!


 MinMax wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
When someone rolls like, say 5 2/1s to wound you, will they still be automatically discarded or will a wound reroll effect override that.
That is my question.

They will still have the ability to reroll those wound rolls.

Then why ever pick it ?
1 anyways fail always and 2' s kick in on s6+ weapons which nobody uses on infantry normaly and on vehicles most weapons will wound on 3s anyways...


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/18 22:25:46


Post by: Arbiter_Shade


 Niiai wrote:
What unit do you using the alchemist supreme on? Most bang for your buck is a 10 man units of abberants. But the good doctor can just deeps trike with them and hand the buff out then. The real Beaty of the alchemist Supreme is that you get to choose, something your normally can not do on core. Atelan jackals are such a good allround unit. - 1 to hit. 2 wounds. Good movement. Fall back and charge. And you can regrow with the iconward later in the game. 2 wolf quads are 8 wounds if you roll a 3+. That sounds insane. Perhaps the iconward needs 'lying in wait'. Some playtesting needs to be done.

If course this is in a vacume. You would need a list where are of this fits in. Just the thought on regrowing 2 of the wolf quads with 5++ sounds nice.


I am toying with the idea of a 15 man acolyte squad as the target with Alchemist Supreme. A bonesword leader with 6 heavy rock saws, Iconward support on top of an Icon in the group almost guaranteeing that you are getting 3 bodies back every turn. All of that together is just 350 points and you don't need to include the Biophagus in the squad because he can be off doing other things having already given the buff pre-game. I would NEVER use Alchemist Supreme on Aberrants due to the fact that if he uses his ability on Aberrants in the first place, you get to choose the buff.

My experience with Atelan Jackals, despite being my favorite unit in the codex, that a 5+++ would be wasted on them. The positions you want to get them into mean that they are very likely to be charged by a nasty melee unit which is great because if you do it right then you are holding a melee unit down in your opponents deployment zone. Jackals are a great distraction unit but not much else and the 5+++ would be more useful with something with some more staying power, like the big blobs of Acolytes or Neophytes IMHO.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/18 22:37:04


Post by: Niiai


Not Online!!! wrote:
 MinMax wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
When someone rolls like, say 5 2/1s to wound you, will they still be automatically discarded or will a wound reroll effect override that.
That is my question.

They will still have the ability to reroll those wound rolls.

Then why ever pick it ?
1 anyways fail always and 2' s kick in on s6+ weapons which nobody uses on infantry normaly and on vehicles most weapons will wound on 3s anyways...


If you don't like it don't pick it. It ain't harder then that.

Meanwhile my friend is playing detahguard with a lot of S6 and S8 weapons and I will end up with a lot of T2 and T3 models. It is probably good vs all manner of thunderhammer, powerfistst and dreandought weapons. Going from a 5/6 to 2/3 is psycological warfare on your opponent.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/19 00:37:21


Post by: Ordana


Arbiter_Shade wrote:
 Niiai wrote:
What unit do you using the alchemist supreme on? Most bang for your buck is a 10 man units of abberants. But the good doctor can just deeps trike with them and hand the buff out then. The real Beaty of the alchemist Supreme is that you get to choose, something your normally can not do on core. Atelan jackals are such a good allround unit. - 1 to hit. 2 wounds. Good movement. Fall back and charge. And you can regrow with the iconward later in the game. 2 wolf quads are 8 wounds if you roll a 3+. That sounds insane. Perhaps the iconward needs 'lying in wait'. Some playtesting needs to be done.

If course this is in a vacume. You would need a list where are of this fits in. Just the thought on regrowing 2 of the wolf quads with 5++ sounds nice.


I am toying with the idea of a 15 man acolyte squad as the target with Alchemist Supreme. A bonesword leader with 6 heavy rock saws, Iconward support on top of an Icon in the group almost guaranteeing that you are getting 3 bodies back every turn. All of that together is just 350 points and you don't need to include the Biophagus in the squad because he can be off doing other things having already given the buff pre-game. I would NEVER use Alchemist Supreme on Aberrants due to the fact that if he uses his ability on Aberrants in the first place, you get to choose the buff.

My experience with Atelan Jackals, despite being my favorite unit in the codex, that a 5+++ would be wasted on them. The positions you want to get them into mean that they are very likely to be charged by a nasty melee unit which is great because if you do it right then you are holding a melee unit down in your opponents deployment zone. Jackals are a great distraction unit but not much else and the 5+++ would be more useful with something with some more staying power, like the big blobs of Acolytes or Neophytes IMHO.
I don't see a world in which 15 t4 wounds that make up 1/5 of your army somehow survive a single turn on the table to be able to use a cult Icon.



Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/19 01:52:33


Post by: Arbiter_Shade


 Ordana wrote:
Arbiter_Shade wrote:
 Niiai wrote:
What unit do you using the alchemist supreme on? Most bang for your buck is a 10 man units of abberants. But the good doctor can just deeps trike with them and hand the buff out then. The real Beaty of the alchemist Supreme is that you get to choose, something your normally can not do on core. Atelan jackals are such a good allround unit. - 1 to hit. 2 wounds. Good movement. Fall back and charge. And you can regrow with the iconward later in the game. 2 wolf quads are 8 wounds if you roll a 3+. That sounds insane. Perhaps the iconward needs 'lying in wait'. Some playtesting needs to be done.

If course this is in a vacume. You would need a list where are of this fits in. Just the thought on regrowing 2 of the wolf quads with 5++ sounds nice.


I am toying with the idea of a 15 man acolyte squad as the target with Alchemist Supreme. A bonesword leader with 6 heavy rock saws, Iconward support on top of an Icon in the group almost guaranteeing that you are getting 3 bodies back every turn. All of that together is just 350 points and you don't need to include the Biophagus in the squad because he can be off doing other things having already given the buff pre-game. I would NEVER use Alchemist Supreme on Aberrants due to the fact that if he uses his ability on Aberrants in the first place, you get to choose the buff.

My experience with Atelan Jackals, despite being my favorite unit in the codex, that a 5+++ would be wasted on them. The positions you want to get them into mean that they are very likely to be charged by a nasty melee unit which is great because if you do it right then you are holding a melee unit down in your opponents deployment zone. Jackals are a great distraction unit but not much else and the 5+++ would be more useful with something with some more staying power, like the big blobs of Acolytes or Neophytes IMHO.
I don't see a world in which 15 t4 wounds that make up 1/5 of your army somehow survive a single turn on the table to be able to use a cult Icon.


I can't help but feel you don't quiet understand how GSC's work. I can drop this unit 8" away from an opponent, give them a +1 to charge with the Iconward.I could go so far as to give them 3d6 charge drop the lowest. On top of all of that GSC is an army about picking and choosing your engagements, between ambush markers and underground I typically get to dictate what I want to engage and when.

GSC is the furthest thing from an army that just walks across the table with its fragile bodies. I have so many options to mitigate alpha strikes and can easily pick apart potential threats before they get to do their damage.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/19 11:08:08


Post by: tneva82


Isn't cult icon bringing stuff back? So point he is making(I think) is you come in, you charge, you do damage to enemy. Great. Then you are in open in opponents turn and he gets to do something to your unit. He's arguing your unit won't survive the counter punch enough to bring models back as you are dead.

Just because you charge from deep strike doesn't mean you are immune to damage next turn. After your turn comes your opponents turn. Opponent can kill your units in his turn.

Similar to how last game with my sisters my zephyrim charged out of deepstrike and took out the enemy unit. Great. But of course come my next turn there were no zephyrim left so any "bring back X models" rules would have been useless. 40k is so lethal that expecting unit to survive after exposing(and if you charge something you expose yourself generally) is optimistic. Are 15 acolytes tougher than 10 zephyrim reducing AP by 1 (S5 attacks so T3 vs T4 would be irrelevant)? Maybe.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/19 13:45:46


Post by: Madjob


tneva82 wrote:

Just because you charge from deep strike doesn't mean you are immune to damage next turn.


To be fair, we have a way of being exactly that, but given the discussion is about the durability of such a unit when stacking cult icon and other buffs, obviously not what he intends to do and even if he did it'd make the icon waste of points as he wouldn't be using it for half the game (also I'm fully expecting an errata for Return to Shadows disallowing it to be used on a unit which has just arrived as reinforcements).


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/19 15:37:34


Post by: Ordana


Exactly, you land, charge something and probably kill it. Then either go back into reserves (and so don't need, or be able to use, an icon) or you stay on the board and if you stay on the board with 15 t4 models your opponent is going to remove them. No self respecting 40k army should have trouble removing 15 acolytes even after you alpha strike them.

And if they can't kill 15 acolytes to wipe the entire unit and allow you to bring 3 back they are so crippled I imagine you win that game with or without the Acolytes.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/19 15:51:44


Post by: Arbiter_Shade


Sorry, not everyone plays at a super competitive level?

If my normal opponents puts that much fire power into those acolytes that means things like my Jackals, Purestrains and Neophytes are going unmolested. Remember that all those points aren't wrapped up in that squad, a good third of the points are in characters that can continue to do other things. I am by no means saying this is a super competitive cutting edge build, but I think it has potential or at least more potential than you are giving it.

Bringing back three models potentially a turn is important when you can bring back special weapons. As far as I can tell you can bring back special weapons so even if you have one surviving model you can bring back the special weapons to do some damage. I can force my opponent to commit to killing the unit much like with Necrons.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/19 16:25:45


Post by: Niiai


Yeah 'It dies to removal' is not really that constructive as it is rather implissit in the game we play.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/20 15:00:30


Post by: Tyel


Arbiter_Shade wrote:
I can force my opponent to commit to killing the unit much like with Necrons.


I think the issue is that this is exactly like 8th Edition Necrons - and kind of the kiss of death as a result.

I think the Iconward might not be too bad. He doesn't need to get too many bodies, across a range of squads, to easily be worth his points.
20 point Icons though just seem a leap too far. If you stack defensives you can get some funny outcomes - but it feels sort of surplus to requirements.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/20 17:06:52


Post by: Arbiter_Shade


Tyel wrote:
Arbiter_Shade wrote:
I can force my opponent to commit to killing the unit much like with Necrons.


I think the issue is that this is exactly like 8th Edition Necrons - and kind of the kiss of death as a result.

I think the Iconward might not be too bad. He doesn't need to get too many bodies, across a range of squads, to easily be worth his points.
20 point Icons though just seem a leap too far. If you stack defensives you can get some funny outcomes - but it feels sort of surplus to requirements.


I generally agree, but so far in my games I've had some decent success with 20 man Neopythes with Icon. I haven't tried it with Acolytes and I accept that D3 is a lot worse than D6 bodies back. None the less, I want to give it a try and see what it does.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/21 06:18:51


Post by: hangnailnz


Some of the Relics seem to be only a slight improvement, where others are a huge boost.
For example, the Gift from Beyond gives +12" range and 1 extra damage, which is OK, but Wyrmtooth rounds triple the Keler's damage output against most targets even allowing for half the number of shots. And the Oppressor's Bane makes a character not just an actual shooting threat, but turns on Crossfire for other units too.
The Crouchling gives you a 4 or 5 in 36 chance (11-14%) to have a non-deniable cast and a re-roll, whereas the Unwilling Orb gives you an extra deny every turn from any range and +1 to cast [Crouchling allows you to be a bit more aggressive, I guess].

Question: If you replace the Magus bio-dagger with the dagger of swift sacrifice it appears that the Magus is still limited to no more than 1 attack with it?

What is your favourite relic, and why?


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/21 10:40:57


Post by: Ordana


hangnailnz wrote:
Some of the Relics seem to be only a slight improvement, where others are a huge boost.
For example, the Gift from Beyond gives +12" range and 1 extra damage, which is OK, but Wyrmtooth rounds triple the Keler's damage output against most targets even allowing for half the number of shots. And the Oppressor's Bane makes a character not just an actual shooting threat, but turns on Crossfire for other units too.
The Crouchling gives you a 4 or 5 in 36 chance (11-14%) to have a non-deniable cast and a re-roll, whereas the Unwilling Orb gives you an extra deny every turn from any range and +1 to cast [Crouchling allows you to be a bit more aggressive, I guess].

Question: If you replace the Magus bio-dagger with the dagger of swift sacrifice it appears that the Magus is still limited to no more than 1 attack with it?

What is your favourite relic, and why?
yes, the relic dagger doesn't replace the models existing weapon, it adds additional rules to it, so the Magus would still only get 1 attack.

Favorite relic? Probably the Unwilling Orb. Board wide denies are great, and thanks to Gestalt Consciousness strat it means you can stay out of Deny range, safely buff a crucial unit and still be able to deny.

Best relic tho probably goes to the Nexos one. CP regen (we have so many good stratagems) and giving the Primus aura to 2 different units.
We have so many good relics, if we could I would bring 4 every single game. (Cranial Inlay, Wyrmtooth Rounds, Unwilling Orb and Hand of Abberance)


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/21 11:57:06


Post by: Niiai


I was thinking that the wyrmtooth rounds are quite good (80 points and 1 relic and he shoots much better then a ridge runner.) However, the heavy part is quite annoying.

If you are in a cult that counts as stasionary after advancing you could perhaps start him on the table (or in a truck) and have him run up, hitting the wyrmtooth at BS2.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/21 12:07:28


Post by: Ordana


The heavy part is a non issue if he is shooting at something with a Crossfire marker.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/23 00:28:29


Post by: Heafstaag


I have not yet played with the new codex, but I am having trouble fitting in all the troops I want in a battalion. I think I may have to go battalion+patrol.

I could go brigade...but I don't have enough heavy slot choices for that since brood brothers are gone from the 'dex!



Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/25 15:39:12


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


I'm stuck at the early list building stages as I start buying into this army. New Codex seemed like a good time to jump in but I'm lost. My goal is to make any army that doesn't play like my current mostly shooty one (AdMech/Knights).

I'm eyeing Rusted Claw for mobility, though Twisted Helix gives actual CC potential.

Anyone have some tips or thoughts for those two Cults?


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/25 16:02:44


Post by: Niiai


In the previous codex I had suksess with handflamer acolytes with mining weapons in transport. I used twisted helix for the S5 and hier movement. Acolytes can run and charge with genetic lineage stratagem. Our codex was so bad and cp starved. That approach gave me more reliable charges. 6 ridge runners gave me ranged support.

I would assume that this approach will be good in the current codex. However it is a very spesific build that spam the one thing that worked. And we have such good things now. You can probably have more fun doing other things.

I don't really know rusted claw that well.

If you do not want to mess around with vehicles pauper prince's seems very good with big blobs of infantry.

Without any hands on experience with the new codex I can only give theoretical musings.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/25 20:05:15


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


Thanks, Niiai. That sounds pretty much what I am aiming for with Twisted Helix. Here was my first draft - very spammy, but gets a lot of what I want on the table (though no Ridge Runners, which makes me sad):

Spoiler:

Twisted Helix Battalion

Leaders of the Cult 1CP
Gene Sire's Gift 1CP

HQ:
Patriarch w/ Familiar
Bio-Alchemist, Elixir
Mass Hypnosis, Psionic Blast

Primus
Exacting Planner, Alien Majesty

Non-FOC:
Nexos

Clamavus

Elites:
(10) PSGS
They Came From Below

(14) Hybrids
Lash, A Trap Sprung

Troops:
(10) Acolytes
4x Rock Drills, 6x Hand Flamers

(10) Acolytes
4x Rock Drills, 6x Hand Flamers

(10) Acolytes
4x Rock Drills, 6x Hand Flamers

Fast Attack:
(4) Atalan Jackals
Quad w/ Incinerator

(4) Atalan Jackals
Quad w/ Incinerator

Dedicated Transports:
Goliath

[1376]

Twisted Helix Patrol

HQ:
Patriarch w/ Familiar
Psychic Stimulus, Psionic Blast

Non-FOC:
Kellermorph w/ Wyrmtooth Rounds

Elites:
(10) PSGS
Our Time is Nigh

Troops:
(10) Acolytes
4x Rock Drills, 6x Hand Flamers

Dedicated Transports:
Goliath

[623]

[1999]

The idea is get a lot of dudes out there assaulting things. Rock Drills seem pretty gnarly. PSGS and Metas for dedicated assault units. Jackals to harass. Some support HQs and killy HQs.


I'm not really sure if that is good or not, so I hope y'all can lend me some input.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/25 20:46:08


Post by: Niiai


It looks very good as a starting point. You can probably tune it more over time.

Compared to my old list you are running quite a lot of characters. Only only ran two, because they where so bad and always got snipped by airplanes etc. But new characters are good.

I did run more range support (6 ridgerunners) and more transports. I am conserved your units can get shot going over the table. Although spending 90 points on more acolytes can be cheaper and better then spending 90 points on a truck.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/27 04:54:30


Post by: dreadlybrew


I think ridgerunners are a trap this time round. The only exception might be rusted claw. Advance and shoot with mining lasers with no penalties and re rolling everything might be a prim tactic.

I think I'm never not taking the orb for my castle. It is along the same view as a nexos with cranial implant are necessary additions.

5 man bike squads with 2 demo charges are 70 points, that lets you drive by demolitions and then use a demo charge in the shooting phase. Advancing is also pretty awesome.

Honestly the only model im having trouble justifying is the patriarch. You can't throw his auras, he is a chump in melee against anything he is designed to kill (hivecult relic exception) and you want 140 points because its 2 5man acolyte flamer units you can put underground and guarantee crossfire and exposed.

I am currently in love with taking more kellermorphs. Its worth the 2 cp for a patrol to take another magus, kellernorph and open up more troops slots.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/27 06:23:17


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


Wait, how is the Patriarch bad? Looks like a decent combat unit to me. You're the first person I've seen say as much.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/27 09:54:32


Post by: Niiai


In the old codex the patriarch was quite bad. A lott has changed in the transition, getting new eapons and stats and beeing affected by cult rules. The old one was really bad and not worth the points. Mind you I cut down on characters because I needed more bodies.

I have not tryed the new one yet. He certainly is better then he used to be.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/27 10:00:26


Post by: Ordana


 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Wait, how is the Patriarch bad? Looks like a decent combat unit to me. You're the first person I've seen say as much.
No, its kind of a general consensus that outside of perhaps TH the Patriarchs is kinda bad. In complete isolation he might seem ok but compare him to for example a Daemon Prince who costs the same he is lacking stats. He is an expensive beatstick in an army full of cheap beatsticks.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/27 10:09:10


Post by: Niiai


One thing to note is the 3 warlord stratagem is dependent on him. (And a 3rd HQ.) And he is your second caster outside of a double detachment. So there is that.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/27 14:24:05


Post by: dreadlybrew


Yeah I am sort of in the boat of taking 3 patriarchs or none. My current rusted claw list is

48 flamers, 5 trucks, 2 kellermorphs, 2 magus, 2 saboteurs, 2 santlctus, a nexos, jackal qlphis and primus 2 bike squads with 2 demo charges each.

I'm agonizing over the 3rd relic

Wrymtooth rounds for a kellermorph or the oppressors bane for a sabatuer.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/27 14:37:51


Post by: Madjob


 Niiai wrote:
One thing to note is the 3 warlord stratagem is dependent on him. (And a 3rd HQ.) And he is your second caster outside of a double detachment. So there is that.


I'm honestly not impressed with our basic WL traits. The best ones are suited for beatstick characters, of which we have 1 in our HQ choices who is forced to have our first WL trait anyways. Alien Majesty sounds nice on paper but the Nexos is obviously a better way of dropping longer range buffs. Prowling Agitant is a great trait that I would love to take on plenty of characters that aren't our HQs. Some of the cult specific ones I can see wanting to use broodcoven with to dip into, but the limitation of HQ only really hurts (and frankly feels bizarre in an edition where certain armies get to drop warlord traits and relics on non-character sergeant models).


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/27 14:58:53


Post by: dreadlybrew


One thing that erks me is that the sabatuer is sooooo close to being a good unit. Right now if she is in melee you need to spend a cp to use her demo charge. But here are the changes I make to the sabatuer to make her worth 80 points

Give her crossfire. Its stupid that she doesn't have it.

Her regular ranged attack bomb needs to be flat 3 damage +1 to vehicles and monsters.

Or rather than reducing it to 1 against infantry it should be mortal wounds.

Alternatively cut her points to 40 to 50 and she is playable.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/27 18:12:32


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


 Ordana wrote:
 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Wait, how is the Patriarch bad? Looks like a decent combat unit to me. You're the first person I've seen say as much.
No, its kind of a general consensus that outside of perhaps TH the Patriarchs is kinda bad. In complete isolation he might seem ok but compare him to for example a Daemon Prince who costs the same he is lacking stats. He is an expensive beatstick in an army full of cheap beatsticks.


I tend to contextualize a unit in their own Codex vs comparing to outside the 'dex. I think for what we have, he is a decent melee option. Not the end-all, but certainly a solid option in a Codex that seems to have no units that aren't viable - at least based on a lot of what I have read from GSC players and blogs.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/28 01:01:28


Post by: dreadlybrew


 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Wait, how is the Patriarch bad? Looks like a decent combat unit to me. You're the first person I've seen say as much.
No, its kind of a general consensus that outside of perhaps TH the Patriarchs is kinda bad. In complete isolation he might seem ok but compare him to for example a Daemon Prince who costs the same he is lacking stats. He is an expensive beatstick in an army full of cheap beatsticks.


I tend to contextualize a unit in their own Codex vs comparing to outside the 'dex. I think for what we have, he is a decent melee option. Not the end-all, but certainly a solid option in a Codex that seems to have no units that aren't viable - at least based on a lot of what I have read from GSC players and blogs.


I think the biggest thing is that you can get 10 purstrains for the cost of 1 patriarch. It just isn't even close.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/28 17:20:28


Post by: deviantduck


Ok gents, I'm starting a GSC army.

I've got the models from the Shadowthrone set, and the hybrids from the admech killteam box purchased from a buddy. What are my next must gets?


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/28 17:48:20


Post by: dreadlybrew


 deviantduck wrote:
Ok gents, I'm starting a GSC army.

I've got the models from the Shadowthrone set, and the hybrids from the admech killteam box purchased from a buddy. What are my next must gets?


If budget is no object, get one of every character. Just to have them, then you need 3 to 5 rock trucks which can be fitted with the grinder to be heavy support As well.

2 boxes of bikers should be enough. Min squading them at 4 to 5 bikers lets them zip around and be sneaky.

Then you have to fill out troops. Because they are cheap and you need all of them. 5 man boxes of acolytes and 10 man boxes of neophytes. There should be plenty of cheap neophytes on ebay.

9th ed ridge runners are meh. But ill run some with missiles to see how they perform.



Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/28 18:15:43


Post by: Heafstaag


dreadlybrew wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:
Ok gents, I'm starting a GSC army.

I've got the models from the Shadowthrone set, and the hybrids from the admech killteam box purchased from a buddy. What are my next must gets?


If budget is no object, get one of every character. Just to have them, then you need 3 to 5 rock trucks which can be fitted with the grinder to be heavy support As well.

2 boxes of bikers should be enough. Min squading them at 4 to 5 bikers lets them zip around and be sneaky.

Then you have to fill out troops. Because they are cheap and you need all of them. 5 man boxes of acolytes and 10 man boxes of neophytes. There should be plenty of cheap neophytes on ebay.

9th ed ridge runners are meh. But ill run some with missiles to see how they perform.



Neophytes are easy to find right now, but acolytes are out of stock and hard to find on ebay!

Luckily I got all my acolytes last year! (I want more, but looks like I'll have to wait a while).

Anyways, I have yet to get a game in with the new codex (very sad about this), but how big would you run your atalan jackal squads? I have the max amount you can field...but that's a ton of points, haha! I was thinking of starting with two units of 10 (with wolfquads), and going from there. I think I plan on upgrading them to have several demo charges and to have the atalan power weapons to make them more threatening.

Anyone had success with big squads of atalans?


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/28 18:25:34


Post by: dreadlybrew


I'm putting together a 30+ jackal list. Or all atlan. Its not going tonbe great. But jackals are really good right now. 4+ armor, -1 to hit always fall back an charge and you can buy them all of their weapons. Rather than replacing some.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/28 18:34:12


Post by: Niiai


 deviantduck wrote:
Ok gents, I'm starting a GSC army.

I've got the models from the Shadowthrone set, and the hybrids from the admech killteam box purchased from a buddy. What are my next must gets?


Welcome to the army, it is a great day to join the rebbelion.

You should try to figure out what sort of army you wnat to do. In the previus codex ridgerunners where mandatory, as wheer acolytes. But these days everything seems to be on the table.

My biggest two suggestions is to

a) get the combat oatrol box when it comes. It is the best bang for you buck. And GSC is an exspensive army to collect.

b) Kitbash. While all our models are exelent they are also a bit exspensive. Consider kitbashing characters. also, after collecting for a while you will end up with a surpluss of acolyte and hybrid arms, and an abundant of neophyte bodies. Sand of the arms of the neophyte bodies and glue on said arms. Now you have a tall leaning model that mixes well with the others. Be shure to attach an acolyte / hybrid head.

Lastly, have some idea what sort of army you want to make.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/28 19:47:20


Post by: deviantduck


dreadlybrew wrote:
If budget is no object, get one of every character. Just to have them, then you need 3 to 5 rock trucks which can be fitted with the grinder to be heavy support As well.

2 boxes of bikers should be enough. Min squading them at 4 to 5 bikers lets them zip around and be sneaky.

Then you have to fill out troops. Because they are cheap and you need all of them. 5 man boxes of acolytes and 10 man boxes of neophytes. There should be plenty of cheap neophytes on ebay.

9th ed ridge runners are meh. But ill run some with missiles to see how they perform.

Can the grinder be magnetized easily?

 Niiai wrote:
Welcome to the army, it is a great day to join the rebbelion.

You should try to figure out what sort of army you wnat to do. In the previus codex ridgerunners where mandatory, as wheer acolytes. But these days everything seems to be on the table.

My biggest two suggestions is to

a) get the combat oatrol box when it comes. It is the best bang for you buck. And GSC is an exspensive army to collect.

b) Kitbash. While all our models are exelent they are also a bit exspensive. Consider kitbashing characters. also, after collecting for a while you will end up with a surpluss of acolyte and hybrid arms, and an abundant of neophyte bodies. Sand of the arms of the neophyte bodies and glue on said arms. Now you have a tall leaning model that mixes well with the others. Be shure to attach an acolyte / hybrid head.

Lastly, have some idea what sort of army you want to make.
Well my metal sisters I've been playing since 2013 scoff at the GSC pricetags, but I really have no idea what kind of army to run. I played 6th alot, but locally, then played in a ton of tourneys in 7th and the first half of 8th. When covid hit I had already been on break from 40k for a year. I'm just now getting back into it. With the mono faction limitations I'm not excited about dusting off my SoB again. I missed their top tier golden age I think. However, oddly enough, I've probably played in close to 100 tournies, including 3 LVOs and I've never played against GSC. I don't know how it happened, but it did. No one I know runs them and I've not been against them on a table. This is a big part of why I decided to give it a go. They are absolutely the army I know the least about and I find it refreshing.

Shopping list so far:
Lots o' Genestealers (I think i still 20ish from 2nd edition plastics) but I'll get new ones
3x trucks
2x Bikers
All the characters. All.
How many acolytes are in a typical list?
How many neophytes?
What about metamorphs and abberants?

As far as a paint theme, I'm thinking maybe 80s punk with bright mohawks, but I'm still on the fence.

Spoiler:


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/28 20:13:40


Post by: dreadlybrew


Acolytes and metamorphs are basically identical models.

If you want punky neophytes I suggest necromunida gangs. Fantastic sculpts. Basically thr same costs. The issue youll run into is the heavy weapons from normal.neopyhtes will be missing from the boxes.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/28 20:17:28


Post by: Madjob


Trickiest part of Goliath magnetizing is the drill ram, I'd recommend dry fitting, marking where the ram supports fit on the "hood" of the vehicle, and then either gluing strong magnets to the inside of the model at that spot, or drilling through and having the magnets recessed in there before covering with GS or something. I did mine with the latter method, though after already gluing the chassis together and losing the magnet in the hole I'd made was a concern so I recommend doing it before gluing it together.

Weapons are all easy to magnetize, you can probably just leave off the flatbed cover that they expect you to use for the rock grinder, it doesn't dramatically impact the visual profile of the model - the drill ram is what most people recognize one or the other by.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/28 20:24:45


Post by: Eldarsif


dreadlybrew wrote:
I think ridgerunners are a trap this time round. The only exception might be rusted claw. Advance and shoot with mining lasers with no penalties and re rolling everything might be a prim tactic.


I have been running Ridgerunners as Bladed Cog a few times in the past two weeks and they underperform 99% of the time. Makes me kind of sad as I like the dune buggy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
dreadlybrew wrote:
Acolytes and metamorphs are basically identical models.

If you want punky neophytes I suggest necromunida gangs. Fantastic sculpts. Basically thr same costs. The issue youll run into is the heavy weapons from normal.neopyhtes will be missing from the boxes.


The differences between the Acolytes and Metamorphs is very superfluous. Slightly more alien on the Metamorph, but I doubt most people will notice unless they are very strict about it.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/28 20:30:17


Post by: deviantduck


dreadlybrew wrote:
Acolytes and metamorphs are basically identical models.

If you want punky neophytes I suggest necromunida gangs. Fantastic sculpts. Basically thr same costs. The issue youll run into is the heavy weapons from normal neopyhtes will be missing from the boxes.
I hadn't noticed. They're the same sprues. Neat. I might get some goliath/escher heads and mix in. I'm really not decided on anything yet. I also thought about doing a Khorne flavored GSC army. I have 3k of Khorne still on the sprue. I could make some neat conversions. Acolytes with bloodletter heads perhaps?


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/28 20:35:30


Post by: pinecone77


 deviantduck wrote:
Ok gents, I'm starting a GSC army.

I've got the models from the Shadowthrone set, and the hybrids from the admech killteam box purchased from a buddy. What are my next must gets?


This is the GSC thread... You probibly need to decide on your Cult. Some are shooty, some are vehicle loving, and some are close combat loving.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/28 20:44:45


Post by: dreadlybrew


 Eldarsif wrote:
dreadlybrew wrote:
I think ridgerunners are a trap this time round. The only exception might be rusted claw. Advance and shoot with mining lasers with no penalties and re rolling everything might be a prim tactic.


I have been running Ridgerunners as Bladed Cog a few times in the past two weeks and they underperform 99% of the time. Makes me kind of sad as I like the dune buggy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
dreadlybrew wrote:
Acolytes and metamorphs are basically identical models.

If you want punky neophytes I suggest necromunida gangs. Fantastic sculpts. Basically thr same costs. The issue youll run into is the heavy weapons from normal.neopyhtes will be missing from the boxes.


The differences between the Acolytes and Metamorphs is very superfluous. Slightly more alien on the Metamorph, but I doubt most people will notice unless they are very strict about it.


Because RR aren't core ( which makes me rage) they will always underperform. You have to invest primus +15 and 2 units of 3. If you dont its just impossible without crossfire.

The question now is missiles or lasers?

Bladed cog is cool for them because you can deny cover because you don't need the flare launcher.

But if we are being honest.... hivecult RR is the only real playable one just because they can fall back and shoot.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/28 21:02:49


Post by: Niiai


The heavy mining laser VS rocket launcher reminds me of the dark eldar launch. People swamped from their 7th edition darklances to the 8th edition dark matter cannon. (I do jot quite remember the name.) Less treanght of shots, but better over all damage output. I stil like the overload option on the mining lasers.

With +1 to wound from exposed you wound on 2's. Rockets wound on 4s VS big stuff.

Anyway, rockets are probably better. Mine are just glued up with lasers.

Regarding GSC historically they where a blip on the radar in 2nd edition, before they where rolled into nids and disappeared. Then they came back in 7th with a bang. They did OK in the index 8th. Codex 8th was so string with 3 detachments and some gazillion CP. Vigulus gave them very good charges. Come 9th edition all of that went away. That is why you have not seen them lately. They became bottom trash or monobuild quite fast. Where they are with the new codex nobody knows.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/29 14:14:45


Post by: dreadlybrew


Played a game last night against 5 dread blood angels.

My list was rusted claw, 46 acolytes with hand flamers( 2 10 man's, 4 5 man's, 1 6 man, 5 rock trucks with demo charges ( I litteraly never remember to use these charges) 2 sanctus, 2 kellermorphs, 2 magus, 2 reductus sabatuers, primus, nexos, jackal alphus. And 2 5 man biker squads with 2 demo charges each.

I won 83 21, the mission was priority target. I took the super bad gsc secondary sabotage critical points. I only scored 8 on it because I tabled him turn 4. The good thing about it is that it gives your opponents 2 more objectives to worry about. So it might be takeable against like... knights.

That many hand flamers with crossfire and exposed was just an insane amount of damage. Adding in the rusted claw ap -1 spell to hit a harder target and space marines just collapsed under the weight of dice.

Never once did I wish i had a patriarch on the table.

[Thumb - 20220129_003305.jpg]
[Thumb - 20220128_194831.jpg]
[Thumb - 20220128_194836.jpg]
[Thumb - 20220128_183951.jpg]


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/29 19:20:15


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


How did you kit the Primus? How did the Saboteurs do? I hear they are kinda underperforming in testing for some folks.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/29 19:56:52


Post by: dreadlybrew


 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
How did you kit the Primus? How did the Saboteurs do? I hear they are kinda underperforming in testing for some folks.


I give the primus focus of adoration. The nexos throws his auras to the bikes so they can heroically intervene.

The saboteurs just need crossfire. But 1 does basically nothing. But 2 focus firing a target get the kill. Especially when coupled with an additional AP from the rusted claw power.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/29 21:53:16


Post by: Eldarsif


Because RR aren't core ( which makes me rage) they will always underperform. You have to invest primus +15 and 2 units of 3. If you dont its just impossible without crossfire.

The question now is missiles or lasers?

Bladed cog is cool for them because you can deny cover because you don't need the flare launcher.

But if we are being honest.... hivecult RR is the only real playable one just because they can fall back and shoot.


Missiles for me. The mining laser can spike, but it can also whiff very badly. I just find missiles in general more reliable.

In regards to Ridgerunners I just feel like they might be something you have to lean hard into or just skip. I just can't find value in using an occasional model in the list.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/30 16:04:47


Post by: dreadlybrew


I threw together an atalan focused list with 9 laser cars, 6 missiles 3 lascannons. Just need to spike a few.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/31 20:16:30


Post by: Strat_N8


So far I am enjoying the new codex. It seems like the designer focused on giving each unit a very well defined role (or set of roles). I felt the old book had this to some extent, but the new version is much more clear about what each unit is intended to do. Having traits on everything is also hugely liberating and in my case allows my mech builds to feel different from each other (whereas before Hivecult was the only creed that did anything for mech). I do miss my 6+++ on my vehicles and have considered building a custom creed to get that back (could use my own OMC for the keyword).

One thing I haven't seen mentioned much (and if so forgive the redundancy) but the revised Conceal rules reveal at the end of the opponent's movement phase instead of the beginning of their shooting phase. The old version made us immune to the first psychic phase of the turn while the new timing allows powers to be used. Not a bad change, just one I didn't immediately catch until playing a game with my friend's Grey Knights.

Edit: Disregard above bit

I've had a couple games with the Ridgerunners and they have been performing similarly to how they did before (using Crossfire and Exposed to replicate the Alphus' +1 to hit and the Overcharged Weaponry respectively). Loss of rerolls is a bit sad, but in practice if they were running in any other creed than Hivecult they would not have had those anyway so I find it more a wash. I do like how they made the other weapons more viable options (even the mortar I could see being used as a niche tool to counter Hive Guard, provided a crossfire token was dropped on them first). Rockets are probably going to be the new "best" option due to the vastly improved consistency, though I think the Heavy Mining Laser still has a place for picking on armor (2+ to wound with exposed vs 4+ for rocket).

As a bit of a surprise, I really like the new Demolition Charge acolytes. They can't 1-round a Knight with weight of dice, but they can pick off a few opponents prior to charging in and do considerable damage with the new Reckless Explosives. I've been including 1 demolition specialist in my melee squads and they have consistently performed quite well in test games so far (albeit they have not ran into a major -1 damage spam list, though even there Reckless Explosives boosts the hit roll to a 2+ and they have a decent chance of getting more attacks at S8 than they would have with a different weapon).

Need to revisit my 5x2 Demolition wagons from 8th. Bit pricier than before, but with the new book 2 models can get the same number of shots as 4 so the squad can include a melee weapon for more flexibility after disembark (or just double down and get twice as many shots).


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/31 20:35:34


Post by: dreadlybrew


 Strat_N8 wrote:
So far I am enjoying the new codex. It seems like the designer focused on giving each unit a very well defined role (or set of roles). I felt the old book had this to some extent, but the new version is much more clear about what each unit is intended to do. Having traits on everything is also hugely liberating and in my case allows my mech builds to feel different from each other (whereas before Hivecult was the only creed that did anything for mech). I do miss my 6+++ on my vehicles and have considered building a custom creed to get that back (could use my own OMC for the keyword).

One thing I haven't seen mentioned much (and if so forgive the redundancy) but the revised Conceal rules reveal at the end of the opponent's movement phase instead of the beginning of their shooting phase. The old version made us immune to the first psychic phase of the turn while the new timing allows powers to be used. Not a bad change, just one I didn't immediately catch until playing a game with my friend's Grey Knights.

.....

As a bit of a surprise, I really like the new Demolition Charge acolytes. They can't 1-round a Knight with weight of dice, but they can pick off a few opponents prior to charging in and do considerable damage with the new Reckless Explosives. I've been including 1 demolition specialist in my melee squads and they have consistently performed quite well in test games so far (albeit they have not ran into a major -1 damage spam list, though even there Reckless Explosives boosts the hit roll to a 2+ and they have a decent chance of getting more attacks at S8 than they would have with a different weapon).

Need to revisit my 5x2 Demolition wagons from 8th. Bit pricier than before, but with the new book 2 models can get the same number of shots as 4 so the squad can include a melee weapon for more flexibility after disembark (or just double down and get twice as many shots).


We never dodged a psychic phase in 8th. It was always end of movement phase.
I re tooled my 46 Flamer list to be roughly 32 flamers but have 25 Demo charges. Crossfire/exposed is making anything a great shooting army. One thing to note is that Acolytes can have models that Carry 2 demo charges. So you have one for the shooting phase and one for the charging phase. If you hit with it it triggers XFIRE. So strong.

The 4: 1 point custom cult ridgerunners are awesome.

DR1 is the bane of GSC right now. Ironically blowing up Rock Trucks is crazy hard to kill.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/31 20:43:22


Post by: Niiai


Not to be to pedantic, but you revealed the tokens in your opponents end of movement, not shooting phase.

I like the rest of the write up thouh. I have been keeping an eye on the dmeolition charges. Lying in wait seems like a good grenede delivery system. Or running out of fire trucks.

Good to hear ridgeruners performed like before. It is similar to what I was expecting.

From a pure theoretical standpoint I am a big fan of Nexos with Cranial Inlay Relic and tag teaming some other hero.

Jackal Alphus and Neophytes squads would be great as they would count as expsoded.

Primus for a general bonus, also works in melee.

But the Clavmagus combi is insane, as you can now also perform actions.This combo is a great supstetute for playing hivecult as potensially 3 units can now shoot and do actions.

Mind you, you might want to combine this with coming from deepstrike on the heroes the same turn as your units come in from reserves and/or transports, othervice the timing does not work.

What is DR1?


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/31 21:01:45


Post by: Strat_N8


dreadlybrew wrote: We never dodged a psychic phase in 8th. It was always end of movement phase.


Well I feel rather silly. I double checked and sure enough the wording is more or less the same as the 8th edition version. Not sure where I got the idea that reveal was at the start of shooting phase, but I do owe my Grey Knight friend an apology for inadvertently cheating a few early 9th edition games...

dreadlybrew wrote:
I re tooled my 46 Flamer list to be roughly 32 flamers but have 25 Demo charges. Crossfire/exposed is making anything a great shooting army. One thing to note is that Acolytes can have models that Carry 2 demo charges. So you have one for the shooting phase and one for the charging phase. If you hit with it it triggers XFIRE. So strong.


Yes, I am glad they gave them an extra shot compared to Jackals. Gives them a different purpose.

I intend to revisit the 2x5 strong squads in a Goliath truck builds from 8th. It was always rather fun to lob 2-3 demolition charges during drive-bys without having to spend for extra explosives (since each squad could throw 1 grenade).


dreadlybrew wrote: The 4: 1 point custom cult ridgerunners are awesome.


I do intend to play with the traits a little bit. Right now I'm working my way through the main creeds to get a better understanding of what has changed with them on the table (on paper it is fairly obvious, but sometimes things play different in practice than in theory).


dreadlybrew wrote: DR1 is the bane of GSC right now. Ironically blowing up Rock Trucks is crazy hard to kill.


Yeah, I had my trucks weather more mid-grade fire than they are typically used to taking. I'm very curious to see what the best creed will be for Mech or what playstyles might emerge leveraging different abilities. I am glad we kept the Rigged to Blow strat too. I have had some fun driving a nearly dead Goliath into the heart of the enemy (after dropping off cargo) and daring them to finish it off. I had one lovely chain reaction against a poor guard player where a forced-detonating truck killed a Chimera (which exploded) and between the two they more or less wiped out everything in the vicinity.

Niiai wrote:What is DR1?


Damage Reduction 1. A surprising number of competitive armies are currently leveraging the mechanic rather heavily (Heamonculus Covens, Tyranid Crusher Stampede, Dreadnaught spam from various factions, Ork Buggies). We have a fair amount of Damage 2 (Rock Saws, Auto-cannons, Seismic Short-wave, Boneswords, Demolition Charges) which is mitigated by the reduction effect.

I suppose also to be fair, we can sorta do it too by spamming trucks, Aberrants, and rockgrinders.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/31 21:21:19


Post by: Niiai


I am really keen on getting some feedback by people who have played aberrants. I have a hard time eyeballing them.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/31 21:32:18


Post by: Strat_N8


I'm intending on taking mine out for a spin tomorrow. I still feel they are a bit pricey, but they did get a number of buffs (extra toughness, extra wound, no more hit-penalty on their high damage weaponry). The Abominant is also very improved at first glance. He can't be made quite as tanky as before (no warlord traits and the Bladed Cog relic is now capped at a 4++) but they buffed his offense considerably. The sledgehammer now does D3 + 3 damage instead of D6 min 3 and lost the -1 to hit penalty it had. While he doesn't get exploding 6's anymore, he does get a free reroll in exchange from his Mindwyrm familiar buddy which should help make him far more consistent.

The Biophagus is also hugely improved, so I'm looking forward to trying him out too (if nothing else, him getting the Rock Cutter's "snip" rule is hilarious to me).


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/31 22:50:32


Post by: Ordana


 Niiai wrote:
I am really keen on getting some feedback by people who have played aberrants. I have a hard time eyeballing them.
Expensive and -1 D is not enough to keep them alive so they require even more investment then just the squad to make work.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/31 23:05:47


Post by: Niiai


Have you tried the ordana or is it just on paper?

I was hoping they could be the very rare anchor unit. 30 points, 3 wounds, T5, - 1 damage. But not to many attacks.

In previous editions a lot of units where not pure 'trading units', but 9th edition is so full of them as deadlyness has been turned up on all units. They have good damage, but very few attacks. Controversial in a codex known for having units that die easily. (Not unlike flesh sircus dark eldar.)


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/01/31 23:41:08


Post by: Red Corsair


 Strat_N8 wrote:
So far I am enjoying the new codex. It seems like the designer focused on giving each unit a very well defined role (or set of roles). I felt the old book had this to some extent, but the new version is much more clear about what each unit is intended to do. Having traits on everything is also hugely liberating and in my case allows my mech builds to feel different from each other (whereas before Hivecult was the only creed that did anything for mech). I do miss my 6+++ on my vehicles and have considered building a custom creed to get that back (could use my own OMC for the keyword).

One thing I haven't seen mentioned much (and if so forgive the redundancy) but the revised Conceal rules reveal at the end of the opponent's movement phase instead of the beginning of their shooting phase. The old version made us immune to the first psychic phase of the turn while the new timing allows powers to be used. Not a bad change, just one I didn't immediately catch until playing a game with my friend's Grey Knights.

Edit: Disregard above bit

I've had a couple games with the Ridgerunners and they have been performing similarly to how they did before (using Crossfire and Exposed to replicate the Alphus' +1 to hit and the Overcharged Weaponry respectively). Loss of rerolls is a bit sad, but in practice if they were running in any other creed than Hivecult they would not have had those anyway so I find it more a wash. I do like how they made the other weapons more viable options (even the mortar I could see being used as a niche tool to counter Hive Guard, provided a crossfire token was dropped on them first). Rockets are probably going to be the new "best" option due to the vastly improved consistency, though I think the Heavy Mining Laser still has a place for picking on armor (2+ to wound with exposed vs 4+ for rocket).

As a bit of a surprise, I really like the new Demolition Charge acolytes. They can't 1-round a Knight with weight of dice, but they can pick off a few opponents prior to charging in and do considerable damage with the new Reckless Explosives. I've been including 1 demolition specialist in my melee squads and they have consistently performed quite well in test games so far (albeit they have not ran into a major -1 damage spam list, though even there Reckless Explosives boosts the hit roll to a 2+ and they have a decent chance of getting more attacks at S8 than they would have with a different weapon).

Need to revisit my 5x2 Demolition wagons from 8th. Bit pricier than before, but with the new book 2 models can get the same number of shots as 4 so the squad can include a melee weapon for more flexibility after disembark (or just double down and get twice as many shots).


Wanna be real cheeky? On any ones to hit with Reckless Explosives remove the demo carrier then in your next command phase bring him back with a new demo charge by summoning the cult with an Iconward.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Niiai wrote:
Have you tried the ordana or is it just on paper?

I was hoping they could be the very rare anchor unit. 30 points, 3 wounds, T5, - 1 damage. But not to many attacks.

In previous editions a lot of units where not pure 'trading units', but 9th edition is so full of them as deadlyness has been turned up on all units. They have good damage, but very few attacks. Controversial in a codex known for having units that die easily. (Not unlike flesh sircus dark eldar.)


Ordanas right that they need a lot of attention. If you bring them you should always reserve them under ground and expect to invest support models, more points and strats into them.

They are deceptively tanky verse hard hitting units, but in my games they got absolutely wrecked to volume of fire and attacks from beast snaggas one game. So if your meta has wrack spam, devil gaunts, or massed infantry from admech or anyone for that matter, you will really notice these guys not carrying their weight in investment.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/01 00:42:56


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


After reading more, I am finally approaching a build/test list that I like!

My wallet weeps at the mere thought, but I think this army looks immensely fun.

Here is my latest incarnation - made the old school way with pen and paper, since BS hasn't been updated yet.

Spoiler:

Twisted Helix Battalion (12CP)

Leaders of the Cult -1CP
Gene Sire's Gift -2CP

HQ:
Patriarch (Warlord)
Bio-Alchemist (WLT), Elixir (Relic)
Mass Hypnosis, Psionic Blast
Enhanced Resilience
[140]

Primus
Exacting Planner, Alien Majesty (WLT)
[95]

Non-FOC:
Nexos
Cranial Inlay (Relic)
[50]

Clamavus
[50]

Elites:
(10) PSGS
From Every Angle
[150]

(5) Hybrid Metas
Lash, Hand Flamers
[75]

(5) Hybrid Metas
Lash, Hand Flamers
They Came From Below
[85]

Troops:
(10) Acolytes
4x Rock Drills, 5x Hand Flamers
[145]

(10) Acolytes
4x Rock Drills, 5x Hand Flamers
[145]

(20) Neophytes (castle for Nexos, Clamavus)
4x Lasers, Shotguns
Icon
[200]

Fast Attack:
(4) Atalan Jackals
Quad w/ Incinerator
[82]

(4) Atalan Jackals
Quad w/ Incinerator
[82]

Dedicated Transports:
Goliath
[90]

[1389]

Twisted Helix Patrol (-2CP)

HQ:
Patriarch
Psychic Stimulus, Psionic Blast
Biomorph Adaptation (WLT)
[140]

Non-FOC:
Kellermorph
Wyrmtooth Rounds (Relic)
[80]

Elites:
(10) PSGS
A Trap Sprung
[155]

Troops:
(10) Acolytes
4x Rock Drills, 5x Hand Flamers
[145]

Dedicated Transports:
Goliath
[90]

[610]

[1999]


Lots of tricks, lots of assaulting, and a lot of hand flamers and drills. Not sure if this will work out in practice, but I am sure by the time I get it built and painted, the meta will have dictated GSC lists a lot better and I can adjust. Still open to all the feedback though, as until I click that order button, I can make larger changes.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/01 05:20:09


Post by: dreadlybrew


Love the list. If you are going double detachment you should be doing double kellermorphs and sabotuers.

Dropping a single metamorph squad and the patriarch should get you about there with a few points shuffled around.


I've found that handflamers and claws are worth more than rock drills saws cutters because you engage in every/more phases and get more value out of having 3 attacks. Plus in the miraculous world where acolytes survive a fight through your turn if you dont want to psychic stimulus them you can just handflame in melee and use the cross fire strat to make their engagement partners fight last.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/01 06:06:09


Post by: em_en_oh_pee


dreadlybrew wrote:
Love the list. If you are going double detachment you should be doing double kellermorphs and sabotuers.

Dropping a single metamorph squad and the patriarch should get you about there with a few points shuffled around.


I've found that handflamers and claws are worth more than rock drills saws cutters because you engage in every/more phases and get more value out of having 3 attacks. Plus in the miraculous world where acolytes survive a fight through your turn if you dont want to psychic stimulus them you can just handflame in melee and use the cross fire strat to make their engagement partners fight last.


Ooh. Yeah, I'll shuffle stuff around and see what I can squeeze in to an alternate list. I am not too keen on leaning into shooty elements as much with TH. Though I'm contemplating making it so I can run as Rusted Claw too when I want to go more shooting/Crossfire heavy. Really also a great excuse to paint up an Alphus.

The drills seem so solid, but if they underperform, definitely hand flamers. TH doesn't really benefit with the drills since they auto wound, so maybe that's a good call, though I do like having something that can put hurt on high toughness targets and those definitely can stack up damage.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/01 06:19:09


Post by: dreadlybrew


Hand flamers and drills are awesome just because you don't roll for parts of your turn.

Flamers auto hit, drills auto wound. Its awesome.

They actually work well together for the fight last strat. But again. The problem is always that the unit doesn't really survive through a turn.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/01 11:31:46


Post by: Eldarsif


 Niiai wrote:
I am really keen on getting some feedback by people who have played aberrants. I have a hard time eyeballing them.


Have currently only used them in casual Crusade, and there they are extremely fun. I run Bladed Cog and give them 5++ save(expensive at 2CP) and with a 5+++ from the Doc they are there to stay. They do however need an Abominant to give them rerolls. In one game They dook down a Defiler, PBC, and a squad of 3 MBH along with their Abominant. So they are fun, but require a lot of comboing to make them work and I can't see it being reasonable in matched play.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/01 12:08:31


Post by: dreadlybrew


So abberants got ruined by 2 attacks and losing their baked in 5+ fnp. They are chunky which is great. But litterally everything they compete with have twice as many attacks as them. And they often have invuln saves. So outside of bladed cog and twisted helix you get a t 5 save less unit that you need to spend 355 to 370 points on to make just barely playable and you need to spend 2 cp pre battle in bladed cog and you need to spend 1 cp for might from.beyond anywhere on the table buffing and you probably need to spend 1 cp to reroll your failed 3d6 charge. And I didn't even price the abdominant in there so your points total goes up to 485. And if you really want to save them 2 cp for transhuman protection which is per phase and not total turn.

So you just spent 485 points 3 elite slots added 2 characters to give up assassinate, cuz you probably aren't giving thr abdom a relic for another cp. And you spent 4 of your 8 to 9 cp just to make it playable.
For 21 attacks which might not be re rollable. At ap-2 3 damage. Who hit on 3s and they can fail to wound.

So are abberants good? Nope. At 30 points a model they basically lose you the game in trades. If they cost 25 each I would still say the same thing. Heck at 22 points I would be mad about playing them.

485 points is like 2.5 fully kitted out 15 man acolyte units with handflamers and rock drills which give you 2 chances to fail your charge, auto wound with ap 4 weapons and can put crossfire markers on stuff by themselves to deny overwatch and or make their target fight last. And with the same 1 cp for might from beyond you actually get (9 x4) +1 ap 2 attacks, plus 18 drills, saws, or cutters.

And you can make that unit 5+ fnp or ap5 for the lols or exploding 6s. And if I didn't say it again... they are obsec.

Are abberants good? Nope. Are they fun? Hell yes. I own 30 and run them all as often as I can. Dropping them to 18 points makes them worth considering. Because then you dont feel like you have to spend half of all of your cp on a non core, non obsec 21 attack unit for 1/4 of your list.

Ok ill stop my rant.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/01 16:49:47


Post by: Arbiter_Shade


Aberrants are really weird to me. On paper they sound really disappointing but every single time I run them they out perform my expectations. 3D6 drop the lowest charge out of underground means that they can pop out and murder something quickly. 3W -1D is this magic spot where you need to hit them with a D4 weapon in order to flat out kill one or two D3 hits. They are a bit tanky not because of their saves but just because they take a lot of firepower to move. Plus, charging a group of Aberrants into a squad of Bladeguard in my last game was just a great feeling.

The unit I am having the most issues with are Jackals. I love Jackals, I run as many as I can due to my primary Cult being the Rusted Claw. Every game I have played them in I find them to just be disappointing. Even with a -1 to hit 2W bodies they just die so easily. So much of the meta is designed to kill 2W models because of space marines so you are really banking on that -1 to hit to protect them. Maybe it is just the armies I have played against but anything like plasma with some form of rerolls just shreds Jackals so easily.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/01 17:35:34


Post by: Madjob


I think that at 30ppm they definitely should have kept their FnP built in. Have the biophagus raise it to 4++ if they take that upgrade.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/01 17:43:10


Post by: dreadlybrew


You need to run smaller jackal units.they are better when they aren't a big target. 3 5 mans with oodles of demo charges will both survive longer than a 10 man and do more damage. They are easier to hide wont run from morale and tend to fit better wherever you need them.

Don't get me wrong. I have 45 jackals and the max is 30 (weeping) but unless you deep strike them with the 3 inch or free move scout when they appear in ambush they are gonna get burned down. Basically the bigger they are the easier it is for an opponent to throw math at them. The smaller it is it takes more of thier shooting and you can annoyingly pull out of sight.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/01 19:02:44


Post by: Eldarsif


Madjob wrote:
I think that at 30ppm they definitely should have kept their FnP built in. Have the biophagus raise it to 4++ if they take that upgrade.


Definitely agree with this.


Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/01 23:15:22


Post by: Niiai


First atempt at new list. It is based on the old 8th edion codex list i ran. That one has to cut very low on characters to fit inn enough scary troops. Supprice supprice I do not have the points for all the sweet toys here either.

Deploy two Goliath and 2 transports on the field. 1 truck with acolytes, 1 with purestrains. Have 6 ridgerunners shooting backup. One unit of purestrains with they came from below to threaten turn 1 charges.

Have Neophytes come on and shoot with the wound on 6 stratagem. They have 5+++ from biomagus.

2 small units of acolytes to trigger exposed (one of them with lying in wait and demo charges.)

1 big acolytes with a trap is sprung to get that chargec. Biomagus and possible Iconward deploy with these. Magus goes where they please.

Spoiler:



  • ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults - 2022) [99 PL, 12CP, 1,999pts] ++

    + Configuration +

    Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

    Cult Creeds: Industrial Affinity, Martial +2, Myriad Cults, War Convoy

    Detachment Command Cost

    + No Force Org Slot +

    Biophagus [3 PL, 55pts]: Alchemist Supreme

    + HQ +

    Acolyte Iconward [4 PL, 75pts]

    Magus [4 PL, 80pts]: Warlord

    + Troops +

    Acolyte Hybrids [6 PL, 148pts]
    . 5x Acolyte Hybrid w/ Hand Flamer: 5x Blasting Charges, 5x Cult Claws and Knife, 5x Frag Grenades, 5x Hand Flamer
    . Acolyte Hybrid w/ Industrial Weapon: Heavy Rock Drill
    . Acolyte Hybrid w/ Industrial Weapon: Heavy Rock Drill
    . Acolyte Hybrid w/ Industrial Weapon: Heavy Rock Drill
    . Acolyte Hybrid w/ Industrial Weapon: Heavy Rock Drill
    . Acolyte Leader: Cult Claws and Knife, Hand Flamer

    Acolyte Hybrids [10 PL, 237pts]: A Trap Sprung
    . 8x Acolyte Hybrid w/ Hand Flamer: 8x Blasting Charges, 8x Cult Claws and Knife, 8x Frag Grenades, 8x Hand Flamer
    . Acolyte Hybrid w/ Industrial Weapon: Heavy Rock Cutter
    . Acolyte Hybrid w/ Industrial Weapon: Heavy Rock Cutter
    . Acolyte Hybrid w/ Industrial Weapon: Heavy Rock Cutter
    . Acolyte Hybrid w/ Industrial Weapon: Heavy Rock Cutter
    . Acolyte Hybrid w/ Industrial Weapon: Heavy Rock Cutter
    . Acolyte Hybrid w/ Industrial Weapon: Heavy Rock Cutter
    . Acolyte Leader: Cult Claws and Knife, Hand Flamer

    Acolyte Hybrids [3 PL, 57pts]
    . Acolyte Hybrid
    . 3x Acolyte Hybrid w/ Hand Flamer: 3x Blasting Charges, 3x Cult Claws and Knife, 3x Frag Grenades, 3x Hand Flamer
    . Acolyte Leader: Cult Claws and Knife, Hand Flamer

    Acolyte Hybrids [4 PL, 87pts]: Lying in Wait
    . 3x Acolyte Hybrid w/ Hand Flamer: 3x Blasting Charges, 3x Cult Claws and Knife, 3x Frag Grenades, 3x Hand Flamer
    . Acolyte Hybrid w/ Industrial Weapon: 2x Demolition Charges
    . Acolyte Leader: Cult Claws and Knife, Hand Flamer

    Neophyte Hybrids [5 PL, 90pts]: Enhanced Resilience
    . 7x Neophyte Hybrid w/ Shotgun: 7x Autopistol, 7x Blasting Charges, 7x Frag Grenades, 7x Shotgun
    . Neophyte Hybrid wi/ Heavy Weapon: Seismic Cannon
    . Neophyte Hybrid wi/ Heavy Weapon: Seismic Cannon
    . Neophyte Leader: Shotgun

    + Elites +

    Purestrain Genestealers [8 PL, 150pts]: 10x Purestrain Genestealer, They Came From Below

    Purestrain Genestealers [3 PL, 70pts]: 5x Purestrain Genestealer

    Purestrain Genestealers [3 PL, 70pts]: 5x Purestrain Genestealer

    + Fast Attack +

    Achilles Ridgerunners [12 PL, 240pts]
    . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser
    . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser
    . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser

    Achilles Ridgerunners [12 PL, 240pts]
    . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser
    . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser
    . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser

    + Heavy Support +

    Goliath Rockgrinder [6 PL, 110pts]: Heavy Seismic Cannon

    Goliath Rockgrinder [6 PL, 110pts]: Heavy Seismic Cannon

    + Dedicated Transport +

    Goliath Truck [5 PL, 90pts]

    Goliath Truck [5 PL, 90pts]

    ++ Total: [99 PL, 12CP, 1,999pts] ++

    Created with BattleScribe



  • Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/02 14:19:51


    Post by: dreadlybrew


    Cult is remarkably bad at the mirror match.

    The 9 inch bubble means you can force the turn 1 purestrains to need a 10 inch charge. Dr1 on trucks means your demo charges only do 1 damage.

    And I play rusted claw. So even abberant hammers are reduced to damage 2, ap 1


    All of our characters can be sniped and murdered by our characters.

    Going into my second cult v cult game today.

    Last gsc v gsc game I virtually tabled my opponent turn 2.

    What are our options in the mirror?


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/02 14:27:11


    Post by: Not Online!!!


    dreadlybrew wrote:
    Cult is remarkably bad at the mirror match.

    The 9 inch bubble means you can force the turn 1 purestrains to need a 10 inch charge. Dr1 on trucks means your demo charges only do 1 damage.

    And I play rusted claw. So even abberant hammers are reduced to damage 2, ap 1


    All of our characters can be sniped and murdered by our characters.

    Going into my second cult v cult game today.

    Last gsc v gsc game I virtually tabled my opponent turn 2.

    What are our options in the mirror?


    Deadly.

    quite literally, the one that gets in the first blood that matters has an extremely high chance to win. Atleast that was what it looked like at my local FLGS table


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/02 19:19:35


    Post by: dreadlybrew


    It also happens to be who can be more mobile, respond to the threats the other player is throwing. And it might just be the gsc player who goes second wins.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/02 21:24:30


    Post by: Not Online!!!


    dreadlybrew wrote:
    It also happens to be who can be more mobile, respond to the threats the other player is throwing. And it might just be the gsc player who goes second wins.


    Hence first relevant blood and not going first, Quite contrary someone going afterwards might hold the better cards due to reserves etc.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/03 04:52:06


    Post by: dreadlybrew


    Today i found out that if you are fast enough and you have enough characters you can stop your opponent from deep striking at all.

    Also I am warming up to the destroy critical objectives secondary. But there are a few conditions that go with it.

    - your opponent must have many fewer units than you

    - the objective mission has at least 5 objectives. So they are constantly having to divert forces away from letting you score the secondary. This lets you focus on primary big turn 1/2. Also based on the way the objectives have to stay apart they tend to not be able to be hidden behind terrain.

    - stage your crossfire around the extra objectives. They are going to be in weird hard to hide spots. And they want to devote units so you don't just score 9 points. Which means they are stuck where you want them


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/04 22:31:16


    Post by: hangnailnz


    I have been thinking through some cheeky possibilities - not sure how useful these will be in-game, but the Normal Moves produced by They Came From Below or Kelermorph's hypersensory abilities or even Prowling Agitant should all allow you to embark on a transport if you end within 3" of it. PA seems like a great way to make a multi-charge fail as you stroll away, but I think the combination of a Goliath disembarking a combat unit on one side of an enemy unit, driving past, and picking up the Kelermorph after both units have fired with (potentially) Crossfire and Exposed, then the Truck can shoot it's cache of demo charges, before the disembarked unit charges in to mop up. is hilarious.
    Probably more common is dropping the Keler at 6" and a Neo unit behind, then Keler wandering back after shooting to avoid immediate retaliation, while still giving heroic inspiration to the unit. This would be the perfect time to overcharge those mining weapons.
    I am struggling a bit to see how to make From Every Angle work well in round one, given the restrictions still keep you outside of opponent DZ and off their table edge.On most maps, this only leaves you marginally further forward than you could get normally, and unless you go second, not in a position to even set up crossfires. What are people's thoughts/ experiences with this?


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/04 22:48:04


    Post by: Ordana


    From Every Angle can be nice to keep a unit of Ridgerunners safe from shooting if your going second.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/05 14:04:55


    Post by: dreadlybrew


    Thr new transport faq transfers the +1 to hit and wound from a truck yo its occupants from crossfire.

    This means our saboteurs inside trucks benefit from crossfire minus the removal of cover.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/05 22:59:42


    Post by: Ordana


    dreadlybrew wrote:
    Thr new transport faq transfers the +1 to hit and wound from a truck yo its occupants from crossfire.

    This means our saboteurs inside trucks benefit from crossfire minus the removal of cover.
    no because crossfire is not a blanket buff.

    If your shooting at a target with a crossfire marker while having the crossfire special rule you get +1.

    If your saboteur inside a truck is shooting at something the Truck does not have +1 hit, because the truck is not shooting.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/05 23:23:24


    Post by: dreadlybrew


    If a Transport model is under the effects of an ability which
    would apply a modifier to a dice roll made when making a
    ranged attack (such as a modifier to its hit rolls, wound rolls,
    etc.) the same modifier applies each time an embarked model
    makes a ranged attack.

    Seems pretty clean cut.

    I guess the question to answer is the target under crossfire or are both?


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Reading crossfire verbatim it works.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/05 23:46:39


    Post by: Ordana


    But the Transport model is not under the effect when the passengers shoot.

    If a transport with crossfire has 2 guns, and shoots 1 at a target with a marker and 1 at a target without. Does the attack on the target without get +1?
    no it doesn't because the buff only exists in a specific circumstance.

    If a transport with crossfire shoots at a target with a marker and then the passengers shoot at a target without a marker do they get +1?
    I hope its obvious that they shouldn't, but the transport briefly had a +1, so surely by your logic the passengers now have a permanent +1?

    If a Tau gunrig fortification shoots its railgun at something with a markerlight, and therefor gets +1. Does the unit inside get a +1 regardless of what they shoot at? Because the gunrig got a +1.

    Crossfire is a very specific modifier. You need the keyword, and your target needs a marker.
    No this rule won't let you just ignore those requirements.
    If the unit inside doesn't need crossfire to get a +1 hit then the target wouldn't need a marker either, and gak gets really bad really fast.

    If the transport shoots at Unit A which is exposed, can the passengers then shoot at Unit B which isn't exposed and still get the +1 wound?


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/05 23:49:17


    Post by: Niiai


    Take it to YMDC.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/06 01:00:01


    Post by: Glintfox


    Hello fellow three armed patrons. I'm doing a escalation competitive league and torn between pauper princes horde of neophytes/acolytes and twisted helix bruisers. What do you think?

    Starting 500, 1k, ect as standard. I love the internal balance of the dex and love all the subfactions. Tips? I appreciate you all


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/06 02:40:51


    Post by: Heafstaag


     Glintfox wrote:
    Hello fellow three armed patrons. I'm doing a escalation competitive league and torn between pauper princes horde of neophytes/acolytes and twisted helix bruisers. What do you think?

    Starting 500, 1k, ect as standard. I love the internal balance of the dex and love all the subfactions. Tips? I appreciate you all


    Well, I've played exactly one game with codex, and I had a fair amount of neophytes packed with all the heavy and special weapons they could take...and they were amazing!

    They put out so much firepower....they were the mvps of the game no doubt!

    Acolytes and aberrants came in and hit...and then died, but the neophytes were relentless in pouring out firepower all game. It was glorious! I had two large 20 man squads, and two squads of 10 for what its worth. One big squad had mining lasers, and the other had seismic cannons. I played against sisters and won the game. I don't think you can go wrong with neophytes as long as you have some melee (which is easy to come by!) keep the enemy off them.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/06 03:03:18


    Post by: shamroll


    What have people's experience been with the different subsections? I'm having trouble deciding on which factions to use.

    Twisted Helix seems like an obvious choice for going melee focused, but I'm not sure for a shooting or balanced list. Does the survivability of Rusted Claw or Bladed Cog make a big difference? Is Hivecult good for just scoring points?


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/06 03:07:30


    Post by: Heafstaag


     shamroll wrote:
    What have people's experience been with the different subsections? I'm having trouble deciding on which factions to use.

    Twisted Helix seems like an obvious choice for going melee focused, but I'm not sure for a shooting or balanced list. Does the survivability of Rusted Claw or Bladed Cog make a big difference? Is Hivecult good for just scoring points?


    In the game I played I used Rusted Claw. The ability to move and shoot all the heavy weapon toting neophytes was amazing, as well as making a few more saves due to reducing ap!



    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/06 09:31:49


    Post by: Ordana


     shamroll wrote:
    What have people's experience been with the different subsections? I'm having trouble deciding on which factions to use.

    Twisted Helix seems like an obvious choice for going melee focused, but I'm not sure for a shooting or balanced list. Does the survivability of Rusted Claw or Bladed Cog make a big difference? Is Hivecult good for just scoring points?
    TH is great for a melee focused, especially Genestealer focussed list. Funnily enough its not good for Abbarents since they need more survivability boosts, especially an invul save from BC or PP.

    PP hordes are an option, leaning heavily on a Primus with the 5++ relic in a blop of Neophytes while using a Nexos to project the aura to units across the table.

    But for a competitive more balanced list I think a custom cult is without a doubt the best option simply because of Industrial Affinity. picking and chosing to ignore modifiers is just so big and applies to almost all of our weapons. It gives your neophytes the ability to move and shoot without penalty, ignores Dense Cover, enemy -1 to hit abilities and strats and it opens up the Cutter for your Acolytes which is a very powerful weapon that is much more reliable then the drill.

    You then have the choice to lean more into movement with Agile Guerrilla's. Go vehicle focussed with Deep Supplies and War convoy or, my personal favourite, Impassioned to lean more into combat.

    We're a squishy army. And there are options to increase the durability but I don't think that fundamentally changes how squishy we are. We can't get durable enough to really compete on that front. We are about trading efficiently and I would rather lean into that efficiency.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/06 18:05:39


    Post by: Niiai


    I did a game today vs my Ork opponent.

    Second game with new codex. Twisted helix. I got first turn. Some weard dpeloyment (table quarters - the circle in the middle.) It is mostly a 1000 point misison, but we miss read it until it was to late. I got first turn.

    - Mannaged to get 2 10 man units of GS into melee, and a rockgrinder. GS fought some big wagon and the squig riders. (He was snakebite, had 6 squig riders and 3 squig characters, including the HQ.) GS rolling S5 into T6 was not good. It was very underwhelming.

    - Patriarch did suprisingly good. He is not a blender. But psyker + fighting is worth the 60 point upgrade over the magus in this case. The move 6 when charged made some charges difficult.

    - Shotgun neophytes deploying within 3" to claim objective was very good. Since I managed to box him in turn 2, and beeing there. They needed some comitment to break up. I had 200 point of them, but that was far to much compared to what I got out of them.

    - Goliaths where A+. So good for their points. Clearence incinerator fixed a lot of my problems with them when I ran the seismic cannon.

    - Best unit in the army was the Abberants. I had a group of 6 with the 5++. They had 3d6 charging from deepstrike. They came in turn 2 and survived until turn 5. Since I pressed so much on points and started boxed in he did not have time to focus them down. They are so anoying!

    - Small units of accolytes are great. Hand flamers to put down crossfire token and trigger exsposed. Small units without hand flamers to retrieve nachmund data.

    - Engage on all fronts, retrieve Nachmund data and assassinate. He had 4 characters. The abberants charged his psyker last turn and killed the last assassin. Maybe my opponent played a bit bad. But he had inisiatives to kill things in melee (ork misison) and on this mission you got more points for taking objektives from the opponent.

    - It was a hoot. Abberants where great, and twisted helix was great. 200 points and primus where shockinly bad. I wish I brought a magus instead.

    Won on points in the end. He had 2 flyers, a gorkanaught and flashgits left. I was tabeled. I had 8 points more.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/07 03:10:03


    Post by: Hecaton


    Does Anointed Throng work anymore?


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/07 10:10:17


    Post by: Ordana


    Hecaton wrote:
    Does Anointed Throng work anymore?
    No, all Specialist detachments from PA were banned in matched play a while ago.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/07 15:40:17


    Post by: deviantduck


    Waha has been updated with our new dex if anyone else is also bored at work.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/07 20:37:11


    Post by: Strat_N8


     Ordana wrote:
    Hecaton wrote:
    Does Anointed Throng work anymore?
    No, all Specialist detachments from PA were banned in matched play a while ago.


    I think it was specifically the tournament mission packs that banned them, not the core rules for matched play (might be misremembering). Even still, as long as you are playing open or a non-crusade narrative game (like one of the missions from the Vigilus books) it is still technically usable. Admittedly, the only thing that hasn't really aged well is the relic sledgehammer, the rest is all fairly useful (though admittedly it kinda doubles down on "all your eggs in one basket" with the Aberrants).

    I anticipate a lot of the stuff from the Viliglus Defiant book may make a return in a Pauper Princes codex supplement in the second campaign book for the current warzone.



    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/07 23:14:58


    Post by: Niiai


    Somebody else pointed this out to me. But the sabotour gets to do their action when they come from deepstrike, and it is finished in the end of the movement phase.

    So you could come in, booby traps and shoot in one turn. The booby trap is stil not that great. But you could fall back from an objective turn 3 and have the bomb on the objective.

    Another thing is that the bomb keeps her safe from charger, or they have to eat some wounds if they charge her.

    However, the nice trick was to give her the deepstrike outside of 3 rule. Land there and you can bomb something. 4+ she takes a mortal wound as it goes off at the end of the phase. But you essentially have a small pie plate. Although it is very narrow. Is there something I am not seeing? (Yes give her the relic gun and she has crossfire.)


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/08 02:38:14


    Post by: Kya_Vess


    Little surprise but playing the old way doesn't work... like at all. Need to play more games but I'm quickly realizing anyone who has even heard the name Genestealer Cult knows better then to allow anything behind or the side of them. Still struggling to find something that worked better then what I had overall from before.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/08 05:12:57


    Post by: deviantduck


     Niiai wrote:
    Somebody else pointed this out to me. But the sabotour gets to do their action when they come from deepstrike, and it is finished in the end of the movement phase.

    So you could come in, booby traps and shoot in one turn. The booby trap is stil not that great. But you could fall back from an objective turn 3 and have the bomb on the objective.

    Another thing is that the bomb keeps her safe from charger, or they have to eat some wounds if they charge her.

    However, the nice trick was to give her the deepstrike outside of 3 rule. Land there and you can bomb something. 4+ she takes a mortal wound as it goes off at the end of the phase. But you essentially have a small pie plate. Although it is very narrow. Is there something I am not seeing? (Yes give her the relic gun and she has crossfire.)
    You can also burn Primed Explosive for max 6 Demo Charges.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/08 09:10:40


    Post by: Niiai


    I suppose yes. I was thinking you shot with the remote detonation VS a vehicle. But 6 S8 is probably better then 2d3.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/08 14:40:43


    Post by: dreadlybrew


    I think thing she is better off just doing her actual shooting attack from a terrain piece. And against vehicles damage 3 is big.

    Her lack of crossfire makes the suicide bomb and unappealing tactical action. While still being super cool. Its actually a really good defensive action to take when you deep strike her 6 inches away on the back field. It says hey im here and this is my spot. Then shoot her remote explosives.

    The crossfire relic isn't that bad for her either


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/08 16:02:22


    Post by: Red Corsair


    She got situationally better at the new missions because you could drop a mine in a landing zone to deter enemy units trying to retrieve nachmund data from reserve, because they usually are not troops and are running the 6 minimum number to auto pass. So in theory if they had to land near the mine due to limited space etc. they could take mortals and roll over the squads number and fail.

    I'll be honest though, thats still real thin lol.

    The mine is just a miss, and her main weapon being damage 1 verse none vehicle is also real silly. Then you add the fact she is the only infantry model with a gun to not have crossrfire and she is 80 pts and I think she becomes an option for style points only at the moment.

    I do think she is fun, but she definitely needs a patch. Give her crossfire (I know about opressors bane and thats a terrible work around IMO) and make her weapon D3 all the time, then she is a threat to all targets and can apply cross fire tokens as well. Suddenly I would be more willing to grab her at 80 points.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Kya_Vess wrote:
    Little surprise but playing the old way doesn't work... like at all. Need to play more games but I'm quickly realizing anyone who has even heard the name Genestealer Cult knows better then to allow anything behind or the side of them. Still struggling to find something that worked better then what I had overall from before.


    Share your standard list so I can get an idea of how you were playing and want to play and maybe I can help you out. The army has a wide range of play styles now which is great, I still think you can play more old school but it takes layering different stratagies and units then prior for sure.

    Stick with it though, it just takes time to memorize all the moving parts and mistakes are still very punishing with this army lol.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/08 17:49:49


    Post by: em_en_oh_pee


    What are folks thinking for Myriad Cults? I'm struggling to see a reason to take them. TH and RC just seem to outshine them so much.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/08 18:50:46


    Post by: Ordana


     em_en_oh_pee wrote:
    What are folks thinking for Myriad Cults? I'm struggling to see a reason to take them. TH and RC just seem to outshine them so much.
    Industrial Affinity and literally anything else, its that good.
    Ignoring dense terrain, Ignoring move and shoot penalties for Neophytes, Ignoring all your opponents -1 hit tricks, ignoring the modifier on Cutters so you don't have to gamble on 6's with the drill.

    After that if your going more melee focussed you have Impassioned for 2+ to hit. Cutters hitting on 2's will wreck a lot of things. I think this is the default custom cult and better then all the 'normal' cults outside of specific builds.

    If you like the mobility of RC you can grab Agile Guerrillas. Now your just as fast and you ignore all the -1's the game can throw at you.

    If your more vehicle focussed you can grab either Agile Guerrillas or Deep supplies.

    Accustomed to Toil, War convoy and Synaptic resonance has been a popular combo. Mini transhuman (tho I think its value is lessened by how much t4 we have), war convoy with lots of bikes can give them some added durability and Synaptic resonance makes our psychic a lot more reliable, since almost all our powers are WC 6 being able to re-roll 1 and 2's goes a long way.



    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/08 19:22:35


    Post by: Niiai


    I think all the cults are well balanced.

    All the named cults come with some sort of gimmic that makes them interesting. Some for more spesific builds. Like pauper princes for the 5++ relic. Or twisted helix for S and speed. Four Armed Emperor mess with CP.

    The kicker though is that one of the aspects can be copied in tailor made cult, but you usually gett less. You get a new relic, a new stratagem and every psyker gets a free new psykick power. All of that is great. However, often they are a bit 'spray and pray' and not very focused.

    The build a cult has some very strong things. 6+++ on vehicles. Amazing psykers (probably with 4 psykers.) Ignoring hit modifiers on very spesific weapons. Etc. I love it. Although builds will probably creep up on the competetive scene and be copied.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/09 16:34:11


    Post by: deviantduck


    how do you guys usually kit out neophytes? shotties?


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/09 18:55:40


    Post by: Niiai


    It depends on their function. 10 shotguns with lying in wait is good for denying your opponent objectives.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/09 21:25:16


    Post by: Strat_N8


     deviantduck wrote:
    how do you guys usually kit out neophytes? shotties?


    More or less the same as 7th edition configurations. Seismic Cannons + Grenade Launchers for autogun squads and Flamers or barebones for shotgun squads. I kinda like squads of 10 with Mining Lasers for Truck squads for some anti-armor support for the truck.

    I do actually rather like the new Icon on the Neophyte squads with accompanying Iconward. The last time I was able to play we ended up doing a 1000 point game and my core was 3 squads of 20 around an Iconward. Between the two uses of Summon the Cult I was fairly consistently getting 6 models back per squad per turn and was able to keep them alive until turn 4 (after which most of my stuff died - had a very bad turn of offense and wasn't able to kill enough to mitigate the hammerblow from the surviving sister squads).


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/09 21:37:33


    Post by: deviantduck


     Strat_N8 wrote:
     deviantduck wrote:
    how do you guys usually kit out neophytes? shotties?


    More or less the same as 7th edition configurations. Seismic Cannons + Grenade Launchers for autogun squads and Flamers or barebones for shotgun squads. I kinda like squads of 10 with Mining Lasers for Truck squads for some anti-armor support for the truck.

    I do actually rather like the new Icon on the Neophyte squads with accompanying Iconward. The last time I was able to play we ended up doing a 1000 point game and my core was 3 squads of 20 around an Iconward. Between the two uses of Summon the Cult I was fairly consistently getting 6 models back per squad per turn and was able to keep them alive until turn 4 (after which most of my stuff died - had a very bad turn of offense and wasn't able to kill enough to mitigate the hammerblow from the surviving sister squads).
    This is literally the first GSC squad i'm taking off the sprue. Thanks for the info. I guess there's no need to magnetize them. I'm going to get a couple patrol boxes when they drop, so i should have enough bodies for any combo.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/09 22:11:38


    Post by: Ordana


    I actually don't think grenades are worth it, they do nothing and the costs add up quick.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/09 23:29:08


    Post by: Strat_N8


     Ordana wrote:
    I actually don't think grenades are worth it, they do nothing and the costs add up quick.


    I guess let me add a couple caveats:

    Part of this is a holdover from 8th, where the Seismic Cannon and Grenade Launcher basically had the same profiles with differing shots (and the "rending" ability on the SC). Putting the two together maximized the volume of fire that could be gotten out of a 10-strong squad which was useful when running them in trucks where you couldn't just add another model. It also concentrated most of the squad's firepower in 4 models, so they dropped off slower than a similar Guard squad (which was a thing to be tailoring for pre-SM 2.0).

    While the profiles don't overlap as much, the Grenade Launchers still do a decent job of increasing the volume of S3 fire against soft infantry and add two more S6 shots (almost a full Seismic Cannon) against tougher infantry. Both S6 weapons really like Exposed as it brings them back to the glory days of wounding most infantry on a 2+ and most vehicles/monsters on a 3+ or 4+. The Krak shot is also the only multi-damage special weapon option, so even a small depleted unit can still trigger Crossfire from afar if they can land the grenade.

    That being said, the main benefit is still force concentration. If you are going with a full 20-strong squad, the grenade launchers are probably not going to be as impactful since they represent a smaller portion of the overall squad's output.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/14 13:44:37


    Post by: dreadlybrew


    I originally took sabotage critical objectives as a meme but I have been consistently scoring 12 on it. Has anyone else tried the amazing mind game this secondary gets to play?


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/14 17:38:07


    Post by: deviantduck


    So what units do we have that are bad? Bear in mind I'm a noob with this army, but to me everything looks fairly viable. The RR strikes me as the worst bang for the buck, but if taken in numbers seems like it could be serviceable. The Locus maybe? I don't fully see the utility of it.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/14 18:04:32


    Post by: dreadlybrew


    The locus is neat tech. I dont ever run them but I always want to. If they were 20 points I would. The patriarch is bad at 140, abberants are horrendously overpriced for 2 attacks, the abdominant is worthless without abberants, the sabatuer is bad if you only take 1, the jackal alphus is meh. Thats half the codex. The rest of the units are really really good. They all have uses and are playable. Its good stuff. Every troop/ unit that you can take 5+ of is worth taking based on your list. Pretty much everything playstyle wise depends on the cult you take and play with.

    Stars of the show are nexos, bikers, neophytes, acolytes, rock trucks, and kellermorphs


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/14 18:14:00


    Post by: Niiai


    I have seen more skilled payed battlereports have the locus bodyguard a patrirach with hiding behind terain.

    My own epereince with abberants was really positive the one time I ran them.

    I see most people beeing really splitt on the patrirach. Some love him, some hate him.

    Most things seem aqsome so far.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/15 20:10:58


    Post by: Glintfox


     deviantduck wrote:
    So what units do we have that are bad? Bear in mind I'm a noob with this army, but to me everything looks fairly viable. The RR strikes me as the worst bang for the buck, but if taken in numbers seems like it could be serviceable. The Locus maybe? I don't fully see the utility of it.


    Honestly the internal balance of this codex is pretty spot on compared to other books. Things in the book aren't bad as much as they are niche depending on what playstyle and cult you are. The stand outs for things being priced too aggressively is abberrants and the abominant imo but they're still quite playable.

    I find the locus to be pretty effective if you're making a blender patriarch, myself.

    Ridge runners make for excellent backfield obj holders or harassing units and triggering expose, especially for their price.

    The only thing I'm not sold on is trucks personally. Especially with the insane anti tank that Tau and Eldar (previews/rumors) are putting out, I think to myself "why bother?".

    All in all there's a ton to explore in this codex compared to other GW releases that have 3 spammy op units and the rest are trash.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/15 21:46:55


    Post by: Madjob


    Trucks are small and easy to hide and let us play with a stronger board presence t1 if it's needed. The twin autocannon is also choice for setting up crossfires.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/16 10:25:25


    Post by: Ordana


    Trucks do not exist to bumrush at the opponent. No transport can do that.

    You park it behind a building in the midfield and use it as a springboard to launch units at the opponent.
    Or do you want to have infantry sitting around waiting to be bombed by SMS?


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/16 15:28:54


    Post by: dreadlybrew


    If you load them up with explosives the trucks are in fact perfect to bumrush opponents with.

    Fire trucks are a trapnto kill. Because you spend so much firepower killing trucks.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/16 16:29:59


    Post by: Glintfox


    I'm well aware of their uses. There's far more anti vehicle in my meta and on the board everywhere nowadays and without having an invulv they are screwed over by lots. The -1 dmg is really nice.. We can talk about SMS all we want but let's not forget that Hive guard have heavily existed in the meta for a long time now. I just kind of see them as worse de raiders. Maybe my opinion is skewed though.

    Edited for spelling


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/16 18:02:04


    Post by: Audustum


     Glintfox wrote:
    I'm well aware of their uses. There's far more anti vehicle in my meta and on the board everywhere nowadays and without having an invulv they are screwed over by lots. The -1 dmg is really nice.. We can talk about SMS all we want but let's not forget that Hive guard have heavily existed in the meta for a long time now. I just kind of see them as worse de raiders. Maybe my opinion is skewed though.

    Edited for spelling


    Don't forget Custodes Salvo Missiles.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/16 18:56:52


    Post by: deviantduck


    In a 2k list, how many characters is too many? Do we run 2 detachments to get more in?

    When making a list, what's are the auto takes when starting before the tweaking begins?

    Let's go with twisted helix to start.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/17 02:06:30


    Post by: dreadlybrew


    No such thing. You are giving up 15 assassinate unless you min your characters. So I run 11


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/17 03:55:39


    Post by: Madjob


    dreadlybrew wrote:
    No such thing. You are giving up 15 assassinate unless you min your characters. So I run 11


    Aren't you giving up Grind Them Down too, then?


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/17 14:45:09


    Post by: NOLA Chris


    I play in Crusade mode , so not as aggressive,
    but I think a second Jakal Alphus in a second det would be a great force multiplier


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/17 15:08:14


    Post by: dreadlybrew


    Madjob wrote:
    dreadlybrew wrote:
    No such thing. You are giving up 15 assassinate unless you min your characters. So I run 11


    Aren't you giving up Grind Them Down too, then?



    For a single turn. They are only exposed for a turn. Your opponent won't leave one alive if they can kill it.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/17 21:32:46


    Post by: Strat_N8


     deviantduck wrote:
    The Locus maybe? I don't fully see the utility of it.


    The Locus has two main uses. The first (and perhaps most obvious) is a bodyguard that also benefits from character protection rules while also protecting his charges from melee combat so long as he is also engaged with the attacking model. This is quite good for things like an Iconward, Patriarch, or Primus that naturally want to hang around the midfield and allows you to position a bit more aggressively so long as the Locus is the closer (ineligible) target.

    The second use is a pocket counter-assault threat thanks to the extended heroic intervention range and always swings first ability. A Locus is remarkably good at disrupting enemy chargers and can be a nasty surprise for an enemy wanting to sweep troops off an objective in close combat (or at least use the charge move to get more bodies on the objective for contesting purposes).

    I've used mine twice so far with the new book and it did well both times. There is just a lot of competition for points and it is hard to just squeeze them in without building around their inclusion.

     deviantduck wrote:
    In a 2k list, how many characters is too many? Do we run 2 detachments to get more in?


    I think you have too many when you don't have enough bodies to protect them. Basically, it is going to depend on your list. Most of the characters cost around the same as a squad of infantry, so the question is how well can you protect them and do they have enough minions running interference so that they can do their job. I tend to have around 5-7 in total, but I also really like my mech and one of the considerations is whether I have seats available for the characters to ride along with the troops.

    I haven't felt a need to get a second detachment yet. Maybe in a Neophyte swarm sort of list where more troop slots and a second Iconward/Kelermorph would be useful?


     deviantduck wrote:

    When making a list, what's are the auto takes when starting before the tweaking begins?

    Let's go with twisted helix to start.


    Other than a Nexos I haven't found any single unit that is a must take regardless of creed. For Twisted Helix I'd probably consider Purestrains and Jackals must-haves though, simply because they get a lot from the creed ability. Both are fast so extra speed is good, both T4 and S8 is fairly common so they can get some use out of the 2's to wound fail ability, and both have S4 melee weaponry (Purestrain Claws and Jackal Power Weapons) that very much like the bump to S5.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/22 16:09:45


    Post by: Madjob


    FAQ/errata is up, very light which is a testament to the book being well authored and edited at print. I can't really think of any rules issues they didn't tackle and they even covered some that hadn't occurred to me.

    However, disappointingly, they walked back the CA2022 confirmation of the price on Our Time is Nigh, errata'ing it to be 15 points again.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/23 01:52:17


    Post by: hangnailnz


    I was a bit sad you can't automatically cause charges to fail with Prowling Agitant any more


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/23 10:49:34


    Post by: Niiai


    Do anybody know what Nick Navadi's GSC list that took 1. place at Melee At Shiloh was? I checked Bestcost Pairings app, but I can only see the list if I attended the event.

    Auspexts Tactics had a copy of the list. But it does not say what the neophytes where armed with. I find it a bit ambigius as to if it was shotsguns or rifles.

    https://youtu.be/zv23-5hmG2c?t=75


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/23 15:53:47


    Post by: Strat_N8


     Niiai wrote:
    Do anybody know what Nick Navadi's GSC list that took 1. place at Melee At Shiloh was? I checked Bestcost Pairings app, but I can only see the list if I attended the event.

    Auspexts Tactics had a copy of the list. But it does not say what the neophytes where armed with. I find it a bit ambigius as to if it was shotsguns or rifles.


    I had to hunt around a bit, but Goonhammer just posted an article with it:
    Spoiler:

    Custom GSC Battalion- Hunters Instincts, Industrial Affinity

    HQ: Patriarch- Warlord Prowling Agitant, the unwilling orb, Mass hypnosis, Mental Onslaught, psychic familiar
    HQ: Acolyte Iconward- Alien Majesty
    TROOP: 10 Acolytes- 4 Heavy Rock Cutters, A Trap Sprung
    TROOP: 10 Acolytes- 4 Heavy Rock Cutters. Our Time is Nigh
    TROOP: 5 Acolytes- 2 Hand Flamers, Excavate
    TROOP: 5 Acolytes- Demo Charge, Lying in wait
    TROOP: 5 Acolytes
    TROOP: 10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons
    ELITE: 10 Purestrain Stealers- They Came From Below
    ELITE: 10 Purestrain Stealers
    FAST: 4 Atalan Jackels- Demo Charge
    FAST: 4 Atalan Jackels- Demo Charge
    FAST: 4 Atalan Jackels- Demo Charge
    TRANSPORT: Goliath Truck

    Custom GSC Patrol- Hunters Instincts, Industrial Affinity
    HQ: Patriarch- Biomorph Adaptaion, The Crouchling, Psychic Stimulus, Might from beyond
    HQ: Primus
    TROOP: 10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons
    TROOP: 10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons
    TROOP: 10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons
    FAST: 2 Ridge Runners- Heavy Mining Lasers, From All Angles


    I'm not 100% sure this is accurate as there is a rather glaring error in both Patriarchs and Iconward having a warlord trait (not possible). If it is accurate it takes away from the victory a smidge and makes one question what else might have been played wrong...

    Error aside,
    it definitely aligns with some of the discussions that have been had in here regarding the power of Industrial Affinity and it follows Navadi's typical list design with emphasis on maxing out certain secondaries. I expect the Neophyes have autoguns for reach. Navadi had said in previous articles he builds lists to max out points first and do damage second, so the Neophytes are probably playing fairly conservatively while the melee units are doing the bulk of the trading.

    Edit: Disregard first part.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/23 16:03:35


    Post by: Not Online!!!


     Strat_N8 wrote:
     Niiai wrote:
    Do anybody know what Nick Navadi's GSC list that took 1. place at Melee At Shiloh was? I checked Bestcost Pairings app, but I can only see the list if I attended the event.

    Auspexts Tactics had a copy of the list. But it does not say what the neophytes where armed with. I find it a bit ambigius as to if it was shotsguns or rifles.


    I had to hunt around a bit, but Goonhammer just posted an article with it:
    Spoiler:

    Custom GSC Battalion- Hunters Instincts, Industrial Affinity

    HQ: Patriarch- Warlord Prowling Agitant, the unwilling orb, Mass hypnosis, Mental Onslaught, psychic familiar
    HQ: Acolyte Iconward- Alien Majesty
    TROOP: 10 Acolytes- 4 Heavy Rock Cutters, A Trap Sprung
    TROOP: 10 Acolytes- 4 Heavy Rock Cutters. Our Time is Nigh
    TROOP: 5 Acolytes- 2 Hand Flamers, Excavate
    TROOP: 5 Acolytes- Demo Charge, Lying in wait
    TROOP: 5 Acolytes
    TROOP: 10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons
    ELITE: 10 Purestrain Stealers- They Came From Below
    ELITE: 10 Purestrain Stealers
    FAST: 4 Atalan Jackels- Demo Charge
    FAST: 4 Atalan Jackels- Demo Charge
    FAST: 4 Atalan Jackels- Demo Charge
    TRANSPORT: Goliath Truck

    Custom GSC Patrol- Hunters Instincts, Industrial Affinity
    HQ: Patriarch- Biomorph Adaptaion, The Crouchling, Psychic Stimulus, Might from beyond
    HQ: Primus
    TROOP: 10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons
    TROOP: 10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons
    TROOP: 10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons
    FAST: 2 Ridge Runners- Heavy Mining Lasers, From All Angles


    I'm not 100% sure this is accurate as there is a rather glaring error in both Patriarchs and Iconward having a warlord trait (not possible). If it is accurate it takes away from the victory a smidge and makes one question what else might have been played wrong...

    Error aside, it definitely aligns with some of the discussions that have been had in here regarding the power of Industrial Affinity and it follows Navadi's typical list design with emphasis on maxing out certain secondaries. I expect the Neophyes have autoguns for reach. Navadi had said in previous articles he builds lists to max out points first and do damage second, so the Neophytes are probably playing fairly conservatively while the melee units are doing the bulk of the trading.


    i am a bit surprised about the alien majesty on the iconward, assuming that only the action activates the aura, which is the only thing affected, unless my german version of the dex is missing the aura keyword on the reinforcement thingy?.

    Further the list is actually faulty as in he only chose to buy a singular demo charge, which is not an option allowed, so he has paid there 5 pts too few for the lying in wait democharge acolythes:

    Spoiler:
    Custom GSC Battalion- Hunters Instincts, Industrial Affinity Genesire’s Gifts
    Patriarch- Warlord Prowling Agitant, the unwilling orb, Mass hypnosis, Mental Onslaught, psychic familiar 150
    Acolyte Iconward- Alien Majesty 75
    10 Acolytes- 4 Heavy Rock Cutters, A Trap Sprung 145
    10 Acolytes- 4 Heavy Rock Cutters. Our Time is Nigh 145
    5 Acolytes- 2 Hand Flamers, Excavate 71
    5 Acolytes- Demo Charge, Lying in wait 70
    5 Acolytes- 45
    10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons 90
    10 Purestrain Stealers- They Came From Below 150
    10 Purestrain Stealers 140
    4 Atalan Jackels- Demo Charge 53
    4 Atalan Jackels- Demo Charge 53
    4 Atalan Jackels- Demo Charge 53
    Goliath Truck 90

    Custom GSC Patrol- Hunters Instincts, Industrial Affinity
    Patriarch- Biomorph Adaptaion, The Crouchling, Psychic Stimulus, Might from beyond 150
    Primus 80
    10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons 90
    10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons 90
    10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons 90
    2 Ridge Runners- Heavy Mining Lasers, From All Angles 170

    so he has 5 pts over since the acolyth squad with the demo is faulty anyways, because the correct pts for the demo lying in wait squad would be 75, albeit i don't see anything prohibiting him from granting the Acolyth and the other patriarch a warlord trait via the stratagem.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/23 16:17:45


    Post by: deviantduck


     Strat_N8 wrote:
    I'm not 100% sure this is accurate as there is a rather glaring error in both Patriarchs and Iconward having a warlord trait (not possible). If it is accurate it takes away from the victory a smidge and makes one question what else might have been played wrong...

    Error aside, it definitely aligns with some of the discussions that have been had in here regarding the power of Industrial Affinity and it follows Navadi's typical list design with emphasis on maxing out certain secondaries. I expect the Neophyes have autoguns for reach. Navadi had said in previous articles he builds lists to max out points first and do damage second, so the Neophytes are probably playing fairly conservatively while the melee units are doing the bulk of the trading.


    Doesn't the Leader of the Cults strat give you a total of 3 warlord traits? What am I missing?

    Use this Stratagem before the battle, when you are mustering your army, if your WARLORD is a <CULT> PATRIARCH. Select up to two other <CULT> models with the HQ Battlefield Role from your army and determine one Warlord Trait for each of them (these must be Warlord Traits they could have); those models are only regarded as your WARLORD for the purposes of those Warlord Traits. Each Warlord Trait in your army must be unique (if randomly generated, re-roll duplicate results). You can only use this Stratagem once.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/23 17:10:16


    Post by: Niiai


    Yeah it gives 2 warlord traits. For 1 CP mind you.

    I stil can't figure out if the Neophytes are shotgun or autoguns. I would assume the later since something in that list needs to start on the table.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/23 20:16:22


    Post by: Strat_N8


     deviantduck wrote:

    Doesn't the Leader of the Cults strat give you a total of 3 warlord traits? What am I missing?


    I will check the wording when I get home (as I could very well be remembering wrong), but I think the Broodcoven army rule stipulated only PATRIARCH, PRIMUS, and MAGUS GSC models could be given warlord traits if one was present in the army. In the case of Nick's list he has a Primus that would take priority over the Iconward.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/23 20:40:52


    Post by: em_en_oh_pee


     Strat_N8 wrote:
     deviantduck wrote:

    Doesn't the Leader of the Cults strat give you a total of 3 warlord traits? What am I missing?


    I will check the wording when I get home (as I could very well be remembering wrong), but I think the Broodcoven army rule stipulated only PATRIARCH, PRIMUS, and MAGUS GSC models could be given warlord traits if one was present in the army. In the case of Nick's list he has a Primus that would take priority over the Iconward.


    I got the 'Dex in front of me. No priorities. They can be given to other cult models with HQ role.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/23 20:48:26


    Post by: princeyg


     em_en_oh_pee wrote:
     Strat_N8 wrote:
     deviantduck wrote:

    Doesn't the Leader of the Cults strat give you a total of 3 warlord traits? What am I missing?


    I will check the wording when I get home (as I could very well be remembering wrong), but I think the Broodcoven army rule stipulated only PATRIARCH, PRIMUS, and MAGUS GSC models could be given warlord traits if one was present in the army. In the case of Nick's list he has a Primus that would take priority over the Iconward.


    I got the 'Dex in front of me. No priorities. They can be given to other cult models with HQ role.


    This. Its why the book states characters without the hq role cant be given traits. It was the previous version of this that required 1 patriarch, 1 magus and 1 primus.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/23 20:48:58


    Post by: deviantduck


     em_en_oh_pee wrote:
     Strat_N8 wrote:
     deviantduck wrote:

    Doesn't the Leader of the Cults strat give you a total of 3 warlord traits? What am I missing?


    I will check the wording when I get home (as I could very well be remembering wrong), but I think the Broodcoven army rule stipulated only PATRIARCH, PRIMUS, and MAGUS GSC models could be given warlord traits if one was present in the army. In the case of Nick's list he has a Primus that would take priority over the Iconward.


    I got the 'Dex in front of me. No priorities. They can be given to other cult models with HQ role.
    Right. The Iconward can't be the warlord over the patriarch, magus, or primus, but it can have warlord traits as long as it's an HQ.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/23 21:32:15


    Post by: Strat_N8


     em_en_oh_pee wrote:

    I got the 'Dex in front of me. No priorities. They can be given to other cult models with HQ role.


    Thanks. I'll scratch out the previous commentary with that confirmation. Admittedly, I'm a bit irked that that is the second rule I've misremembered, but better to be wrong here than wrong in a tournament.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/23 21:35:22


    Post by: em_en_oh_pee


     Strat_N8 wrote:
     em_en_oh_pee wrote:

    I got the 'Dex in front of me. No priorities. They can be given to other cult models with HQ role.


    Thanks. I'll scratch out the comment previous commentary with that confirmation. Admittedly, I'm a bit irked that that is the second rule I've misremembered, but better to be wrong here than wrong in a tournament.


    Don't sweat it too much. The rules bloat over the last decade has been pretty outrageous.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/24 10:14:54


    Post by: Not Online!!!


     Strat_N8 wrote:
     em_en_oh_pee wrote:

    I got the 'Dex in front of me. No priorities. They can be given to other cult models with HQ role.


    Thanks. I'll scratch out the previous commentary with that confirmation. Admittedly, I'm a bit irked that that is the second rule I've misremembered, but better to be wrong here than wrong in a tournament.


    TBH, the last iteration of that stratagem had the limitation to magus and primus.


    Anyways, has anyone tried to field a massed neophyte list yet?
    Thinking about agile guerillas and supplies for the trait and two battalions worth of neophytes aswell as 2 iconwards.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/24 18:34:50


    Post by: Yarium


     Niiai wrote:
    Yeah it gives 2 warlord traits. For 1 CP mind you.

    I stil can't figure out if the Neophytes are shotgun or autoguns. I would assume the later since something in that list needs to start on the table.


    I caught a little of their tier-list for units in the codex, and he mentioned that list. Apparently he was using the Neophytes to deep strike and charge with. The idea being that he'd make the charge and not die to counter-attacks so that he'd have some boots on an objective to steal it. I guess in his world, people have a hard time killing 10 Neophytes. I'm not going to argue with one of the best in the world, but I know in my games if I charge with 10 Neophytes, I end up with 10 dead Neophytes, or I end up with 10 Neophytes sitting in the open because they failed their 8" +1" rerollable charge (and that's assuming the +1" from an Acolyte Iconward that got into the right spot).

    EDIT: because of this, I would assume they're armed with Shotguns.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/24 21:28:52


    Post by: Niiai


    Charging with Neophytes. I guess they deliver the bad touch.

    Tried a version of his list today. Ran with some more elites and only 1 battalion. Ran with my first game VS Tau.

    It went all shades for wrong. He got first turn and halved my table deployed forces. A lost tabled my by turn 2. What little came on the table died horribly in his turn 3.

    I probably played it all manners of wrong. He deployed very far VS me and had I had first turn I would have had 4 turn 1 charges, but he got first. We also had 1 line of sight blocking terrain that was not so good for T3 5+ saves.

    Anyway, it was a good practice game VS Tau. I have never played them before. I got some good datapoints.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/24 21:50:59


    Post by: Strat_N8


    Not Online!!! wrote:
    Anyways, has anyone tried to field a massed neophyte list yet?
    Thinking about agile guerillas and supplies for the trait and two battalions worth of neophytes aswell as 2 iconwards.


    Kinda. I ran 3 blocks of 20 in a 1000 point list experimenting with the Pauper Prince's banner relic and Icons. It wasn't intended to be a serious list, just playing with the mechanics a bit. That being said, the two blocks around the iconward held out until turn 4 before going down. I do think MSU squads are probably more optimal overall, but large squads with an Icon feel like good bunkers to hide the Iconward in (and do get more out of Proficient Planning - I had one block of 20 with 4 Mining Lasers drop in with perfect ambush and nuke a squadron of Mortifiers).

    I might try a full swarm, though I don't have enough heavy weapons to support 12 squads. Might consider taking out the Abominants for such a list. I feel we really want to have some sort of consistent high damage in our lists to deal with Custodes and the like, and the new Abominant looks like it might be able to fulfill that function on a character chassis that naturally has good synergy with a swarm of (comparatively) expendable bodies.

    Yarium wrote:
    I caught a little of their tier-list for units in the codex, and he mentioned that list. Apparently he was using the Neophytes to deep strike and charge with. The idea being that he'd make the charge and not die to counter-attacks so that he'd have some boots on an objective to steal it. I guess in his world, people have a hard time killing 10 Neophytes.


    I've done this before. Typically the target getting charged isn't a healthy squad, but rather something that has been shot to pieces that still has a couple models left. Most troops are not great in close combat and are fairly survivable once whittled down to just 1-2 models. There is some risk calculation involved admittedly. If you charge into 2 Intercessors for example you will probably loose 2-3 Neophytes to return punches, while 2 Custodes guard will probably kill 5-6 (which is admittedly still enough Neophytes to contest if they pass moral).

    The goal isn't to hold the objective for your own scoring benefit, but rather to prevent the opponent from scoring that turn. The Neophytes used in such a maneuver are not expected to survive (and realistically shouldn't), just earn points indirectly by reducing what the opponent can get on their turn.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/25 10:49:12


    Post by: Not Online!!!


     Strat_N8 wrote:
    Not Online!!! wrote:
    Anyways, has anyone tried to field a massed neophyte list yet?
    Thinking about agile guerillas and supplies for the trait and two battalions worth of neophytes aswell as 2 iconwards.


    Kinda. I ran 3 blocks of 20 in a 1000 point list experimenting with the Pauper Prince's banner relic and Icons. It wasn't intended to be a serious list, just playing with the mechanics a bit. That being said, the two blocks around the iconward held out until turn 4 before going down. I do think MSU squads are probably more optimal overall, but large squads with an Icon feel like good bunkers to hide the Iconward in (and do get more out of Proficient Planning - I had one block of 20 with 4 Mining Lasers drop in with perfect ambush and nuke a squadron of Mortifiers).

    I might try a full swarm, though I don't have enough heavy weapons to support 12 squads. Might consider taking out the Abominants for such a list. I feel we really want to have some sort of consistent high damage in our lists to deal with Custodes and the like, and the new Abominant looks like it might be able to fulfill that function on a character chassis that naturally has good synergy with a swarm of (comparatively) expendable bodies.

    Well i still have my R&H horde lying around and the more i look at the custom traits the more i see and can imagine some opportunistic plays.

    Atm i am considering the following list:
    Spoiler:

    Battalion, Agile guerillas , supplies in the deep? (not sure on translation, the one reroll per unit ability)

    HQ:
    Primus, ambitious planner. Warlord trait for the increased aura size. 95 pts
    Iconward: 75pts

    Elites:
    Nexos, Implant relic. 50 pts.
    Sanctus with rifle 70 pts.
    Reductus Saboteur 80 pts.


    Troops:
    10 Neophytes 2 GL 70 pts
    10 Neophytes 2 HS 70 pts
    20 Neophytes Shotguns, 2 Flamers. Pefect ambush. 145 pts
    20 Neophytes 4 GL , 140 pts
    10 Acolythes 2 Saws 2 drills Sprung trap 145 pts.
    5 Acolythes 2 explosive charges. 55 pts.

    Total if did not do accounting wrong 1000 pts.


    Just what i atm can field

    Honestly for efectiveness sake i think one should skip the reductus and instead hand out mining lasers wherever possible, with agile guerrilas pretty much no downsides and same range but more S AND can hit aircraft. NVM that they average out at 3.5 damage. Why GW thought that 80pts is fair to the reductus i will never know, especially when you can field 5 mininglasers and a nade launcher for that price... alas GW once again has hit 8.5 marine codex type design anyways with tau and Bananas so we are back at gw nonsense anyway.

    That said, so far i am positively surprised about rifle sancti, not for their assasination capability that only really is important seemingly to me atleast in a mirror match or against other buff charachter reliant builds, but rather as a 36" crossfire marker provider and anti elite infantry capability.
    Nade launchers aswell can be shockingly effective for a 5 pts upgrade with crossfire or as crossfire provider. I think stubbers are compared to nade launchers underwhelming.

    What are people thoughts of the Seismic cannon? 15 pts is a tad steep for my taste, but maybee i am underestimating them?


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/02/25 17:16:00


    Post by: Strat_N8


    Not Online!!! wrote:

    Why GW thought that 80pts is fair to the reductus i will never know, especially when you can field 5 mininglasers and a nade launcher for that price...


    I think they started with the base cost for a Neophyte character (see Clamavus, Nexos, and Biophagus) and tacked on ~20 points for the Demolition Charge and Remote Explosives weapons. The last few points were probably to accommodate the extra stealth rule and her mine ability (moral wound generators are always a bit pricy, even if unreliable or finicky to work with).

    She probably should be closer to 65-70 but it is what it is. She does have the useful ability to hide without minions which makes her pretty solid for backfield objectives. The Demolition Charge is also handy for Reckless Explosives if she ends up in melee (you don't really care if you roll a 1 since she probably won't survive regardless).

    Not Online!!! wrote:

    What are people thoughts of the Seismic cannon? 15 pts is a tad steep for my taste, but maybee i am underestimating them?


    I like them. They are fairly flexible and deadly when they get to benefit from Exposed (which I think is why they are priced as they are). The base S4 profile wounds GEQ on a 2+ in such instances and up to T7 on a 4+ (which is impressive given the rate of fire) while the S6 profile wounds T5 and under on a 2+ and anything over T6 on a 4+ (again, also fairly impressive with the rate of fire). They still want to keep pointed at infantry in most cases though.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/03/01 22:25:10


    Post by: dreadlybrew


    And you can add a damage to them. Pretty sweet in a 20 man blob


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/03/02 14:30:48


    Post by: Red Corsair


    Seizmics are insanely useful. Your opponent will play around that unit once they see what it does which will win you games.

    I run 20 with a banner and 4 SC near the iconward. My list also runs a 10 and a 4 man jackal unit with 3 demos in each.

    The more I play the more I realize the best units in the book are the Neophytes and the Jackals.

    I run Rusted claw as I means I can advance and shoot with no penalty and I also ignore all the AP massed fire that is recently in the game. The 20 man blob just tags terrain with half the unit and strings around corners with the heavies and overcharges every turn. If you roll 4 1's you kill your canons and stay hidden since you can res them back next turn anyway and if the unit gets shot you just proc +1 save in cover and your neos have a 3+ save ignoring ap -1 and reducing -2.

    Bikes are similar but arguably better. they scout 9" for free, then can move and toss a demo charge, in the shooting phase toss another demo charge then assault and throw the 3rd demo charge. Often turn 1 I over charge these fellers since they can get near a key target making the demos wound on 2's (jackal rules for being close) at -3 3 damage, incinerators at 2 damage lol. You can also max their shots and generally they even survive often as the ap reduction and -1 to hit really make them a PITA. Then you can always drive back to the banner and threaten to res bombs and quads, which means your opponent generally has to shoot way more then they want into them.

    A couple units I am becoming less sold on are actually the kellermorph and the nexos. Everyone raves about them but often the kellermorph struggles to earn his points back, while giving up assassinate and not helping on objectives much and the nexos eats a CP so I can break even by turn 3 or 4 since I can never roll regens lol. I am actually considering switching to the sniper since he also auto gens a CF token but can also sit in the open on my home objective and not be shot.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/03/04 23:15:38


    Post by: deviantduck


    So far all you tourney players, can you swap proficient planning on units between tourney rounds or is it something that's hardcoded in your list?


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/03/05 09:44:07


    Post by: Ordana


     deviantduck wrote:
    So far all you tourney players, can you swap proficient planning on units between tourney rounds or is it something that's hardcoded in your list?
    It is part of your list.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/03/16 02:42:55


    Post by: pinecone77


    Well...if the leaks are accurate, GSC Stealers are Better than Hive Fleet stealers.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/03/16 10:29:07


    Post by: Ordana


    pinecone77 wrote:
    Well...if the leaks are accurate, GSC Stealers are Better than Hive Fleet stealers.
    They do different things. Infiltrate on powerful combat units is a powerful rule. They don't 'need' advance and charge if they have infiltrate and would actually become even more ridiculous if they did.

    Not sure they needed to be more expensive tho.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/03/18 18:27:34


    Post by: pinecone77


    Yeah, I just wish they had the same stats, beyond Moar Powah! I hate GW making the "same" unit different. Extra because I am planning to try out GSC allies, and I could end up with two flavors of Stealer...


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/03/21 21:05:28


    Post by: deviantduck


    When adding Brood Brothers, you can only include units with the <regiment> keyword, not units with an auto locked regiment such as Cadia. AKA, you can't include Creed, correct?


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/03/25 19:31:17


    Post by: Strat_N8


     deviantduck wrote:
    When adding Brood Brothers, you can only include units with the <regiment> keyword, not units with an auto locked regiment such as Cadia. AKA, you can't include Creed, correct?


    Correct. The new version of Brood Brothers acts like a <Regiment> keyword now. A unit with a pre-selected <Regiment> can't replace theirs so they are ineligible for the detachment.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/03/30 20:36:22


    Post by: deviantduck


    With hybrid acolytes, it seems like the drill is the way to go. The -1 to hit on the cutter seems like a big gamble with all the -1 hit stuff already out there. With the saw, the extra damage doesn't seem as worthwhile vs the 18% chance for 2 mortals. Plus, there's a ton of damage reduction out there making the saws worse than the drills.

    What do you guys field?

    Also, do you just buy a crap ton of acolyte boxes to get enough drills? Cause.. dayum.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/03/30 20:54:30


    Post by: Ordana


    with the base cults, yes Drills are the best option.

    But Industrial Affinity custom trait exists and it just removed all the downside from the Cutter making it the 'best' option.
    Drills are still nice in theory but in practice your fishing for 6's and thats just unreliable.

    And saws are just worse then cutters against anything with more then 2 wounds, even with the -1.

    As for bitz. that's what 3d printers and printing services are for these days.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/03/30 22:46:47


    Post by: Madjob


    You can argue that Drills are still better even for Industrial Affinity, just because of autowound. There's other things which affect hit rolls for Drills which Industrial Affinity can help with, but not much that helps Cutters with wound rolls, particularly against targets that force minimum rolls.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/03/30 23:59:32


    Post by: JNAProductions


     deviantduck wrote:
    With hybrid acolytes, it seems like the drill is the way to go. The -1 to hit on the cutter seems like a big gamble with all the -1 hit stuff already out there. With the saw, the extra damage doesn't seem as worthwhile vs the 18% chance for 2 mortals. Plus, there's a ton of damage reduction out there making the saws worse than the drills.

    What do you guys field?

    Also, do you just buy a crap ton of acolyte boxes to get enough drills? Cause.. dayum.
    Don't you mean the opposite?

    If you have -1 to-hit, another -1 doesn't matter.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/03/31 05:46:59


    Post by: Jarms48


     Strat_N8 wrote:
    Correct. The new version of Brood Brothers acts like a <Regiment> keyword now. A unit with a pre-selected <Regiment> can't replace theirs so they are ineligible for the detachment.


    This. Though I would suggest waiting for the next Guard codex before adding Brood Brothers. The only good remaining unit at the moment is the tank commander, which has dropped off in power considerably. They're now both a glass cannon and their damage really isn't what it once was.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/03/31 13:57:59


    Post by: deviantduck


     JNAProductions wrote:
     deviantduck wrote:
    With hybrid acolytes, it seems like the drill is the way to go. The -1 to hit on the cutter seems like a big gamble with all the -1 hit stuff already out there. With the saw, the extra damage doesn't seem as worthwhile vs the 18% chance for 2 mortals. Plus, there's a ton of damage reduction out there making the saws worse than the drills.

    What do you guys field?

    Also, do you just buy a crap ton of acolyte boxes to get enough drills? Cause.. dayum.
    Don't you mean the opposite?

    If you have -1 to-hit, another -1 doesn't matter.
    Due to covid and a couple fresh babies, I've only gotten 1 game of 9th in with my sisters, and now I'm building GSC. I didn't realize -1 to hit was capped. Good to know. So that's certainly less of a con.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/03/31 16:14:47


    Post by: Tyel


    Kind of feel the drills are the more generalist weapon. I think saws and cutters work out better into specifically 2 and 3 wound models - but that's before any -1 damage, FNP.

    I also think things like Transhuman can really skew your odds of an unlucky wound roll. Which doesn't apply with the drills. (I guess the equivalent there is just not getting any 6s - but still.)


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/04/07 15:44:04


    Post by: deviantduck


    Can 1 unit tag multiple enemies for a crossfire marker? The way I read the rule a unit has to fire 100% of its shots at 1 unit to gain the marker. Am I reading it wrong?

    In your Shooting phase, each time a CROSSFIRE unit is selected to shoot, if all of those attacks target one enemy unit without a crossfire marker, after resolving those attacks, the target gains a crossfire marker if any of the following conditions were satisfied:


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/04/07 16:32:14


    Post by: Niiai


    Are you asking for special permision? You can't.

    Although I do believe you can benefit from crosfire during split fire.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/04/07 17:31:46


    Post by: Madjob


    Yes, in order to add a crossfire token, the shooting unit must target one unit with all their attacks. Any unit with a crossfire token already on it has the effects of crossfire and/or exposed
    applied regardless of how the crossfire unit targeting them is dividing it's attacks.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/04/07 18:10:04


    Post by: deviantduck


    Thanks. That's how I interpreted it, too. Time to correct a guy on reddit.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/04/07 19:36:22


    Post by: Niiai


    Life is to short to argue on reddit.



    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/04/07 19:58:06


    Post by: deviantduck


     Niiai wrote:
    Life is to short to argue on reddit.

    well it confused a noob like me, so i'm trying to help someone else that comes across the post.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/04/07 20:11:28


    Post by: Niiai


    I appreciate your opinion and you have a good point.


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/04/21 19:25:35


    Post by: deviantduck


    Is there a limit to how much of your list can be deployed underground?

    Are we restricted to the 50% rule?


    Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire @ 2022/04/21 19:30:29


    Post by: JNAProductions


     deviantduck wrote:
    Is there a limit to how much of your list can be deployed underground?

    Are we restricted to the 50% rule?
    Before the game starts, yes.

    But if you use that strat to dump people underground after the game starts, that can exceed the 50% rule.