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Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/10 14:23:20


Post by: Tiberias


The Adeptus Custodes 9th edition codex was finally released after some delay and a lot of things have changed. Our guys know Karate now!


Here are some of the most relevant changes compared to 8th edition:

-Custodes models count as 2 models when determening whether a character benefits from the Look Out Sir! rule. Adeptus Custodes models count as two models when determenting who controls and objective marker. This is a really nice buff to our obsec.

-No more 3+ invulnerable saves. The only 3+ invuln left in the codex is from a relic and it only lasts one phase.

-Our infantry got cheaper. Custodian Guard with shield are not as tough as they were before.

-Sisters of Silence are finally rolled into our codex and you can play them as troops! (with the restriction that you can't take more of them than custodes troops). They get characters, warlord traits and relics which is awsome.

-Martial Ka'tah let us do Karate on the battlefield. Those are similar to Necron Command Protocols and sound super complicated, but it's quite straight forward in practice:
You pick 3 Ka'tahs who have 2 Stances each at the beginning of the game.
You then pick one as your primariy, secondary and tertiery.
First battle round you pick one of the two available Stances from our primary Ka'tah
Second battle round you either go straight to one of the two available Stances from your secondary Ka'tah, or you pick the Stance from your primary Ka'tah that you did not chose in the first battle round.
You can't pick a stance twice and you can't go backwards in order.

-Shield hosts now give passive boni, which are called Fighting Styles. Each Shield Host has two Fighting Styles and you benefit from both. You also get one Warlord Trait, Relic and Stratagem that is exclusive to the corresponding shield host. What is great about the new Shield Hosts in my opinion, is that all of them are actually playable. One is going to prove to be the strongest and end up as the flavor of the month meta build, but none of them are truly terrible.

-Characters are amazing. Both our named characters and generic characters are very good in the new codex. Old man Valoris is stronger than ever and probably an auto-include in most lists and even our other available named character Valerian got a significant boost.

-We have lost some stratagems like "Stooping Dive" and "Vexilla Teleport Homer", but retained other key stratagems. Also a lot of our bread and butter stratagems like "Arcane Genetic Alchemy" and "Emperor's Auspice" now cost only 1CP for smaller units, which is really good.

-Our weapon profiles got changed quite a bit: almost everything is flat damage 2 now. This is a nerf in certain matchups and while nobody really understands why Castellan Axes did not get bumped to flat 3 damage, our weapons are still decent. Ballistus Grenade launchers and Sentinel Blades got a buff on their shooting profile, which is nice.

-Storm shields got changed. They no longer provide a 3+ invulnerable save, instead they give +1 to your armor save. This is a straight nerf, but custodian guards with shields are now quite a bit cheaper than before.

-Vertus Praetors went up to 5 wounds and get +1 to wound on the charge now instead of re-rolling all wounds. Their salvo launcher does 3+d3 damage now, which makes them a very potent unit both in shooting and in melee. Very expensive though.

-Captain Commander traits are now points upgrades and every type of shield captain gets access to three different traits.


There was some disappointment towards this new codex from the community (myself included), but the true power of the codex still remains to be seen. It definitely feels different. To me this codex is Herohammer incarnate. Our characters are true powerhouses now and can fulfill basically any role you equip them for. Custodian Guard is going to feel squishier and die faster than before, but they are still beefy boys...just don't expect them to tank anything the enemy throws at them.


Unit Analysis:
Spoiler:

Characters:

-Trajann Valoris: our Captain General is stronger than ever and probably an auto-include. Provides CORE with reroll 1s to hit and wound, has flat 3 damage on his axe (finally!) and gets two warlord traits. Also the moment shackle can still do some nifty tricks. He is an incredible force multiplier and beat stick, on top of all that he also gives one extra CP and let's you farm CP on 5+. He is probably one of the best special characters in the entire game.
-Valerian: now gets perma-transhuman and his spear just straight bypasses rules that ignore damage. He also gets one hit, wound or save-reroll per battle round. He's actually not bad now and can be a good counter pick against C'tan or Ghazgkull because he ignores their "only x wounds per phase" cap.
-Aleya: Valerians BFF and certified badass. She's cool and good in combat, but probably overshadowed by our other characters.

-Guardian Shield Captain: these are our standard shield captains that still provide an aura of reroll 1s to hit, though now it only affects CORE units. They might see more play, since some Captain Commander traits on them could be useful, but I suspect that they are going to be overshadowed again by the bike and terminator captain.
-Allarus Shield Captain: our chonky terminator shield captain got 8 wounds base now and some really spicy relic and warlord trait options. Especially the praetorian plate relic makes this shield captain very interesting for the sheer flexibility and movement it can provide on a tough obsec body.
-Vertus Praetor Shield Captain: our captain on jetbike now starts with 9(!) wounds base and is still an all-star unit in my opinion. They are durable, fast and have some very good warlord trait and captain commander upgrade options. I suspect that this shield captain variant will remain the most popular.
-Blade Champion: Our newest addition to the golden boys and a pure beatstick unit. You can kit this guy to be one of the most potent character killers or horde blenders in the entire game and he's quite cheap for what he can do.
-Knight Centuria: the Sisters of Silence finally get a generic HQ option. The Knight Centuria is very cool albeit a bit situational, since her Daughters of the Abyss ability makes her very usefull against Psyker units, but otherwhise she's probably overshadowed by our other HQ options. Still amazing that we now have the option for playing a sisters HQ.

Troops:

-Custodian Guard: our standard golden boys, playable with either Guardian Spear or Praesidium Shield and Sentinel Blade. The stormshield (now Praesidium Shield) build was by far the most popular and effective in 8th edition due to the 3+ invulnerable save it provided. The shields now only provide +1 to armor saves. So shields still provide some utility, but we are probably going to see a lot more spears running around than we used to.
-Prosecutors: it really happened. Sisters of Silence as troops, rejoice! Though with a restriction: you can't take more of them than you have Custodian Guard in your list. I believe Prosecutors will see play, because cheap objective holders were something Custodes sorely missed in 8th.

Elites:

-Wardens: basically Custodian Guard with extra attack, but with access to Castellan Axes and a 6+++. They now also have the bodyguard rule, which is really starting to grow on me since our characters are more important than ever in the new codex.
-Allarus Custodians: our beefy terminators, which can now be taken in units of 1-6, which can be really handy to have access to a singular terminator unit that can do actions in the enemy backfield and be a general nuisance. Also their grenade launchers got buffed to S5, which is nice. They are now really quite cheap for what they can do.
-Vexillus Praetor: the banners were a staple in many 8th edition lists and they are still decent. They provide either +1 attack, light cover or dense cover. I don't think they are as much of an auto-include as they used to be, but the buffs they provide are still powerful and useful.
-Vexillus Praetor in Terminator Armor: same as the one above, but with more wounds and the ability to teleport. Which one is better really depends on your list in my opinion.
-Venerable Contemptor Dreadnought: Still ugly and still overshadowed by the Forgeworld alternatives. Now don't get me wrong, the standard contemptor is not bad per se. It has good melee and can give you access to some multimelta shots which is always nice, the Forgeworld variants are just simply better.
-Vigilators: Sisters of Silence with giant swords are really cool, but we don't really need more melee power in our lists. Our Custodes units arguably fulfill that role much better.

Forgeworld:
-Contemptor Galatus Dreadnought: the coolest looking dreadnought in the entire game is still a very useful unit in most custodes lists. He's difficult to remove in shooting with his 4++ and even more so in melee. A great unit to contest the midfield and be a complete pain for your opponent to deal with.
-Contemptor Achillus Dreadnought: the second coolest looking dreadnought in the game is our hardest hitting melee unit with his S14, 3+d3 dmg spear of doom. He's not as tough as the Galatus variant since he only has a 5+ invuln. He is a prime candidate for the "Eternal Penitent" stratagem and might have a nice place in Dreadhost lists. A 8" re-rollable charge from deepstrike is not that bad. The Achillus also has decent shooting.

Fast Attack:

-Vertus Praetors: the dawneagle jetbikes got an extra wound and 3+d3 damage on their Salvo Launchers. They are a really potent, fast unit that shines even more when you take them as Solar Watch, but they are very expensive. I suspect that they are going to find a place in a lot of lists despite their cost.
-Witchseekers: Sisters of Silence with Flamers. They get a 6" pregame move, which could be very valuable. Decent unit that might see some play due to the pregame move.

Forgeworld:
-Venatari: The coolest looking jumppack unit in the game has lost some power in the new codex. They can not double shoot any more which made them staples in many lists in 8th ed. They are still a very decent, fast moving unit and with the new codex the Venatari Lances become interesting for the first time, since the pistols are not longer obviously better.
-Agamatus Jetbikes: They didn't get an extra wound for some reason like the Vertus Praetors and are too expensive for what they offer. Until they get an update, the other jetbike variant is going to be superior.

Heavy Support:
-Venerable Land Raider: still bad, as is every Land Raider

Forgeworld:
-Telemon Heavy Dreadnought: Still probably the toughest dreadnought in the game, but slightly nerfed in the new codex. He's not CORE so he won't get any re-rolls and he can't benefit from the Shadowkeepers specific stratagem anymore, which made him even more tanky. He now benefits a lot from the Emperor's Chosen shield host for the free re-rolls, but Dreadhost would also be quite good with him for the extra Ap on his flamers for example. I believe that one Telemon will still find his way in some lists, but he won't be an auto-include anymore.
-Caladius Grav-Tank: The Caladius still provides great anti tank firepower, but it also can not benefit from re-rolls anymore without the CORE keyword. So again, the emperor's chosen fighting style for the free re-roll becomes very valuable on the Caladius.


Flyer:

Forgeworld:
-Orion Dropship: proof that custodes truly have the most pimped up rides in the imperium. Still very expensive and if you use it for transporting troops and/or a dreanought its basically the definition of "all eggs in one basket".
-Ares Gunship: provides the heaviest anti-tank firepower custodes have access to. Might have a place in a leafblower list.


Dedicated Transport:

-Anathema Psykana Rhino: I am not sure if our lists will include enough sisters to justify a rhino for them, since most of the time you probably want your Prosecutors sitting on your home objective anyway. Witchseekers are primarily interesting because of their pregame move and nobody is going to play Vigilators, so I don't see it really. Might be wrong though.

Forgeworld:
-Coronus Grav-Carrier: I want to love the Coronus, but I don't see a place for it in most lists. I might be wrong though. It's still really expensive...




Warlord Traits:
Spoiler:


Adpetus Custodes:

-Master of Martial Strategy: +5 CP refund and rearrange order of Ka'tah. One of Trajanns Warlord Traits and you are never going to pick it on another character since Trajann is an auto include.
-Champion of the Imperium: reroll hits and 6" heroic intervention. Trajanns second trait.
-Superior Creation: 5+ FnP. Just a very good survivability buff and still a powerful option.
-Impregnable Mind: Deny the Witch and warlord counts as two models for obsec, so effectively 4 models. Deny is situational, but the second ability can be very powerful scoring tool, especially in combination with the praetorian plate.
-Radiant Mantle: -1 to be hit. Not a bad trait for sure, but with the cap to modifiers in 9th I don't think -1 to be hit is as powerful as it once was or should be.
-Peerless Warrior: 6s to wound do MWs in addition, also saving throws can not be re-rolled. Very powerful on the blade champion, especially when using his Hurricanis profile.

Anathema Psykana:

-Oblivion Knight: +1 advance and charge for Sisters within 6" and reroll wounds of 1 for warlord. Meh.
-Silent Judge: -1 to enemy combat attrition and enem units lose obsec within 3" of warlord. Now we're talking! Taking away obsec is super powerful and if you are bringing a Knight Centuria, this is an auto take in my opinion.
-Mistress of Persecution: Sisters within 6" ignore cover and get +3" range on ranged weapons. Meh.


Relics:
Spoiler:


Relics of Terra:

-Eagle's Eye: extra wound and once per game gain 3+ invulnerable save until end of phase. Not bad, but quite a nerf to it's previous iteration.
-Auric Aquilas: everyones favourite relic in 8th is back, but it's changed. Reroll charge rolls or add 1 to charge rolls if you can already reroll your charges and you can double move once per game, but can't charge or shoot afterwards. Also not bad, but not an auto-pick as it used to be
-Gatekeeper: automatically hitting guardian spear. Cute, with a decent shooting profile, but ultimately overshadowed by other relics.
-Veiled Blade: buffed Sentinel Blade with extra attacks. Not bad, but I don't see many people going for a Guardian Shield Captain with sword and board over the other options available
-Obliteratum: aka the pocket nuke. Replaces the grenade launcher on a terminator captain and gives one very strong shot with 3+d3 dmg.
-Fulminaris Aggressor: friendly units in range ignore dense and light cover. Not sure about this one, probably also overshadowed by other options.
-Praetorian Plate: best non-shield host relic in the book by far. The mobility that this thing provides a terminator captain is absolutely amazing and getting +1 toughness is just the cherry on top.
-Castellan's Mark: re-deploy for up to two units. Can be very powerful, but is situational.
-Wrath Angelis: once per battle deal mortal wounds. Hot garbage.

Relics of the Vigil:

-Raptor Blade: buffed Sisters of Silence greatsword. It's cool, but not worth it if you also bring Custodes.
-Excrutiatus Flamer: buffed witchseeker flamer with S6, AP3 and flat 6 auto-hits. That's quite a good, consistent shooting profile. Decent relic for sisters.
-Enhanched Voidsheen Cloak: -1 to be hit AND wounded plus a 4+ invuln. Very strong relic if you plan to chuck your Knight Centuria into the frontlines.


Shield Hosts:
Spoiler:


Emperor's Chosen:
-Fighting Style: 4+ FnP against all mortal wounds and each unit can re-roll one hit or wound each time it shoots or fights. Obviously a very good general purpose shield host, but particularly good in dreadnought lists, especially when using the Telemon since our big chonky boy does not have the CORE keyword and can't benefit from captain re-rolls. Also units like the Caladius or Ares benefit a lot from that free re-roll.
-Stratagem: select one unit, until next command phase that unit benefits from another shield hosts fighting style instead of emperors chosen. I LOVE this stratagem, it provides so much flexibility. Really great stuff and one of the most powerful stratagems in the entire codex.
-Warlord Trait: get extra attacks per enemy models killed (up to 4). This is amazing on the Lawnmower Blade Champion, since it's basically 8 extra attacks with the hurricanis profile.
-Relic: the Paragon Spear is basically a souped up guardian spear with a bazillion AP, which is cool but useless if you don't ignore invulns. Coolest name for a relic, sadly overshadowed by better options.

Shadowkeepers:
-Fighting Style: re-roll all wounds against characters and enemy models in engagement range get -1 attack. This can be amazingly strong against combat focused armies and obviously also against characters.
-Stratagem: Grim Responsibility returns however you now can no longer use it on vehicles. Nooo....my poor unkillable Telemon. But jokes aside, this is still a very powerful stratagem.
-Warlord Trait: just strait up ignore invulns against characters. This is hilarious on a blade champion or bike captain....almost no character in the game is going to want to tangle with these guys. This trait can be extremely powerful, but you actually have to reach the enemy character first to get any benefit.
-Relic: finally we get a fight last ability! I love it and it's obviously very strong and useful against any combat oriented army.

Dread Host:
-Fighting Style: if you attack something that's within 9" of your guys get +1 AP on everything, also re-roll charges. This makes Castellan Axes quite a bit more potent and also boosts short range shooting. The re-rolling charges is always very useful for any combat oriented army.
-Stratagem: Golden Light of the Moraides returns, but has changed quite a bit. You no longer get better charges from deepstrike, but rather your guys are -1 to be hit the turn they come down from deepstrike and the enemy can't overwatch or set to defend against them. Ignoring overwatch is decent, but I honestly liked the old one way better because it provided consistency.
-Warlord Trait: pick a CORE unit or this warlord, the chosen unit gets exploding 6s each time it makes an attack. Good buff, since it now works both in shooting and melee.
-Relic: the biggest, baddest axe in the galaxy returns. Admonimortis is one of the few infantry weapons we have acces to that provides a profile with flat 3dmg, which is quite valuable for us.

Solar Watch:
-Fighting Style: +1 to advance and charge, also fall back and charge. This is just a very powerful fighting style for Custodes. Movement is king and getting more consistency in our charges is very valuable. Especially strong with bikes for obvious reasons.
-Stratagem: if you slay the enemy warlord, -1 to combat attrition tests for enemy untis for the rest of the game. Very situational...I'm not a fan because the morale phase is so insiginificant in 9th.
-Warlord Trait: pick and infantry unit (not CORE locked!) whithin 6", that unit can advance and charge. Amazing. Yes, it's only on infantry but I don't care...advance and charge will always be an extremely strong buff on Custodes.
-Relic: buffed guardian spear that lets be bearer fall back and charge/shoot. Cute but not good enough to see play probably.

Emissaries Imperatus:
-Fighting Style: always fight first and ignore all hit and wound modifiers when making an attack. This shield host is the sleeper hit of the codex in my opinion, because those are some very powerful abilities to have on your whole army.
-Stratagem: CORE unit gets a pregame move. Expensive for bigger units, but very powerful.
-Warlord Trait: +3" to aura abilities and units within 9" get +1 leadership. This rather weak imo. Custodes already have 11Ld so that buff is largely useless.
-Relic: friendly units within 3" ignore all penalties to move, advance and charge. Also in the fight phase each enemy unit within 3" gets mortal wounds. Meh, overshadowed by other relics in the codex.

Aquilan Shield:
-Fighting Style: everyone gets heroic interventions and ignore AP1. It's decent, but I feel the other shield hosts are just better.
-Stratagem: can't target imperium character with shooting when within 6" of Aquilan Shield CORE unti. Meh.
-Warlord Trait: halve all damage (rounded up). For the beefiest of boys
-Relic: Stormshield that gives -1 to enemy wound rolls. Strong ability, but I suspect that few people are going to bring a shield captain with sword and board, because the other options are just way more enticing.

So what's amazing about these new shield host options, is that Aquilan Shield is the only comparatively weak one. Every other Shield Host is very much playable and it's really hard for me to pick a favourite or determine which is the strongest one (probably Solar Watch or Emssaries.....or maybe it's Shadowkeepers...).


Martial Ka'tah
Spoiler:


Calistus
-Stance 1: each time unit advances, roll additional D6 and then discard one.
-Stance 2: in shooting phase count as stationary if units advanced or made a normal move
Preferred Shield Host: Solar Watch

Calistus is a great opening Ka'tah that enables you to get towards objectives more consistently or enables you to cover some distance on the board and still shoot your opponent. However it could also be useful lategame for getting onto some crucial objective to edge out some primary points you desperatly need to turn a close game.

Salvus
-Stance 1: add 4" range to shooting weapons
-Stance 2. infantry can shoot "Auric" weapons twice if did not advance.
Preferred Shield Host: Aquilan Shield

Salvus is a decent Kata if you bring a bunch of infantry with Auric Weapons that can then double shoot. But it feels definitely a bit weaker than the other choices.

Dacatarai
Stance 1: when an enemy unit piles in or consolidates, they get -2" on their movement.
Stance 2: units get extra attack, but damage of weapon becomes 1. Units in this stance can choose to use this or not.
Preferred Shield Host: Dread Host

This is an amazing Ka'tah. The first stance can provide incredible utility in the fight phase: it can neuter the melee potential of a horde unit if they can't get enough units into melee with a 1" pile in. It can be a great trick if you charge into a unit that makes you fight last: string your models out and barely get into engagement range with one enemy model. The enemy unit will fight first, but with a 1" pile in they might not get a lot of models into combat with you depending on the positioning.
Stance 2 of Dacatarai is obviously great against horde units and always great to use on the Blade Champion with his hurricanis profile.

Kaptaris
Stance 1: enemy units can not re-roll hits against you in combat.
Stance 2: if enemy unit wants to fall back from one of your infantry units (except vehicles and monsters) roll off with your opponent. If you win the enemy unit can not fall back.
Preferred Shield Host: Shadowkeepers

Stance one of this Ka'tah is obviously very powerful against any combat army. Stance two can be downright game winning if you manage to keep a crucial enemy unit from falling back and thus keeping your unit from being shot at, though it's a gamble. But still, this is a very nice ability to have in ones toolbox.

Conservai
Stance 1: unit can still perform action after advancing or falling back.
Stance 2: unit can still shoot while performing action.
Preferred Shield Host: Emissaries Imperatus

Depending on the mission and your list, this can be extremely powerful. Getting on a midfield objective turn 1 by advancing and still being able to raise banners for example is really good. Being able to still shoot while performing an action might not be as powerful as Stance 1, but it is still a nice ability to have.

Rendax
Stance 1: 6s to hit autimatically wound against vehicles and monsters
Stance 2: +1 strength in melee when making an attack against vehicle and monster (when charged, was charged, heroic intervention)
Preferred Shield Host: Emperor's Chosen

Stance one of Rendax can be really useful since it also works in shooting and Stance 2 can basically be +1 to wound in a lot of instances because it pushes you to S8 or past it. Overall a good Ka'tah if you know you are up against a lot of big stuff.

So which Ka'tah are the best? Which ones are you going to use every game? Really depends on the matchup in my opinion, all of them can have a place depending on your list, the enemy list and the mission. The only one that feels weaker than the other right now is Salvus, but only until maybe some of our Forgeworld infantry gets the Auric Weapon keyword, then it's probably really quite good.


Secondaries
Spoiler:


-Might of Terra (no mercy, no respite category): gain 4 victory points at the end of the battle round if one or more enemy units were destroyed and none of your units were destroyed. Our guys are tough, but not that tough....especially after losing the 3+ invuln. This seems very difficult to achieve, not a fan honestly.
-Stand Vigil (battlefield supremacy category): 3 victory points at the end of battle round if you control more objectives in no mans land. Pseudo-Stranglehold....idk it can be good I guess, but it's very dependent on the mission.
-Auric Mortalis (purge the enemy category): ok here me out: this is the best, most badass secondary ever and you are oathbound to take it every time you play custodes. No, but seriously this secondary can be good depending on matchup. If your enemy has any unit with SUPREME COMMANDER or PRIMARCH keyword you have to kill it (if not, your target is the most expensive enemy unit).
If that unit dies = 5 VP
If that unit dies in melee = another 5VP
If that unit dies 6" away from your deployment = another 5VP
BUT for every one of your units that gets killed by your target, you lose 2VP from this secondary. It's just so badass, I love it.

Over all none of these secondaries are auto-takes, but Auric Mortalis might be useful depending on the matchup aside from being just super cool.


Stratagems
Spoiler:


S-Tier: you are going to use these in every single game
A-Tier: Very strong stragems
B-Tier: Situationally useful
C-Tier: Not that good

Durability:
-Arcane Genetic Alchemy: our version of transhuman physiology, now at a special price of 1CP for small units! You are going to use this in every game.
-The Emperor's Auspice: turning off re-rolls on hit, wound and damage rolls is an amazingly powerful effect and now also cheaper on small units. Same as above, you'll probably use this every single game.
-Tanglefoot grenade: still absolutely amazing. I put this in the durability category, because preventing a charge with this thing can be so clutch.
-Praesidium Shieldwall: -1 to be hit on storm shields. This is not a very powerful debuff anymore, but it might be useful once in a while.
-Indomitable Engines: vehicles get 5+ FnP against mortal wounds. Very strong ability to have if you don’t play the Emperor’s Chosen Shield host with your dreadnoughts.

Herohammer:
-The Emperor’s Heroes: Give warlord traits to characters other than your actual warlord. How many you can give is dependent on game size.
-Open the Vaults: standard extra relic stratagem every codex has.
-Victor of the Blood Games: one character gets to pick an additional warlord trait.
These above three stratagems are probably going to be used very single game given how powerful our characters can be with this new book. Golden Boys assemble!
-Earning of a Name: if an enemy character is destroyed by an attack from one of your adeptus custodes characters (no named custodes characters) you can either give this character one Shield Host fighting style or one stance of a Marial Ka’tah as a permanent buff. This is the coolest stratagem in the whole book, period. Won’t come up every game but I don’t care. This is the best one.

Damage and Consistency Boosts:
-Wisdom of the Moritoi: friendly dreadnought gets an aura until next command phase to either re-roll hits or wounds of 1 for CORE within 6“. This is can be really handy if you have an Achillus Dreadnought running around outside Trajanns aura.
-Slayers of Nightmares: when hitting something in melee with higher toughness, get +1 to wound. Got cheaper for small units. Very powerful stratagem to have access to.
-Avenge the Fallen: get +1 attack when your unit lost any models, get +2 attacks when your unit is below half strength. I like this iteration better than the old one.
-Talons of the Emperor: After an Adeptus Custodes unit has shot or fought, friendly Sisters of Silence within 6“ get +1 to hit. Very cool and flavourful, but won’t come up that often.
-Purgation Sweep: when Witchseekers shoot their flamers or give overwatch, get +1 strength on flamers. Good buff for Witchseekers.
-Death Mark: before the game select enemy unit, Vigilators re-roll hits against that unit. It’s a strong buff, but I don’t think Vigilators will see much play.
-Desperation’s Price: enemy Psyker within 18“ of Sisters of Silence suffers an additional D3 mortal wounds when they peril. Add insult to injury! Really funny strat that won’t come up that often.
-Rapid Reactions: when an enemy unit falls back from an Adeptus Custodes infantry unit, that unit can shoot as if it were the shooting phase. This can be very good and also utterly hilarious if someone decides to fall back from a Terminator Captain with the Obliteratum relic. Pocket nuke go!
-Psyk-Out Grenade: Closest visible enemy psyker within 6“ of Sisters of Silence suffers perils of the warp. Cute.

General Purpose:
-Sweeping Advance: get +3“ to consolidate on jetbikes. Being able to tag something further away can be very strong depending on matchup.
-Vigil Unending: fight on death for characters. Obviously situational, but a strong ability to have in your pocket.
-Retribution of the Machine Spirit: vehicle gets to act on top profile until next command phase. Situational, but useful to have.
-Fraternity of Heroes: Adeptus Custodes unit gets to herocially intervene 6“. This is really, really good.
-Martial Discretion: pick one Adeptus Custodes unit, until next Command Phase that unit benefits from another Ka’tah stance of your choosing. Amazing flexibility, this might come up quite often.
-Indomitable Guardians: interrupt combat for 1CP if in range of objective with Adeptus Custodes unit. Obviously situational, but very powerful if it comes up.
-Unleash the Lions: Split up Allarus Terminator unit into one model units. You can take Allarus as units of one now anyway so I’m not sure how often this would come up.
-Shoulder the Mantle: if warlord dies, other character gets that warlord trait if it does not have a warlord trait. I think this won’t come up often because you probably won’t have any characters running around without warlord trait who could benefit from this.
-Manoeuvre and fire: Adeptus Custodes unit with fly gets to fall back an shoot. Amazing.
-From Golden Light they Come: put something in deepstrike. Will depend on your list and strategy.
-Empyric Severance: Sisters of Silence within 18“ of enemy psyker can nullify psychic power on a 4+. Matchup dependent, but can be super clutch.
-Creeping Dread: Sisters of Silence unit gains aura ability to give enemies within 6“ -1 to hit.
-Teleport Homer: you can Yeet terminators across the field within 3“ of a Vexilla model and 9“ away from enemies. Magnitudes weaker than it was before, but might be useful sometimes.

We lost some powerful stratagems compared to 8th, but most of the good stuff is still here.



Some amazing Herohammer builds:
Spoiler:


The "YEET a walking tank across the map" Allarus Captain:
-give your Allarus Captain the Praetorian Plate relic and the Superior Creation Warlord Trait. You now have T6, 4++, 5+++ character that can basically herocally intervene into any combat on the battlefield. The amount of movement and flexibility this provides along with an extremely tough Obsec body is truly amazing.

The Assassin (Blade Champion):
-give your Blade Champion both the Lockwarden and Peerless Warrior Warlord Trait by spending one CP on the "Victor of the Blood Games" stratagem. Also give him the Stasis Oubliette Relic. This is arguably the deadliest generic character in the game. He hits with S6,Ap4 and flat 3 damage, re-rolls all wounds against characters, does MWs on 6s to wound in addition and completely ignores invulnerable saves on enemy characters. He can also make an enemy unit fight last. This guy provides the most raw damage against enemy characters, but he is comparatively slow.

The flying Duelist (Bike Captain):
-give your Bike Captain the Lockwarden Warlord Trait and the Superior Creation Warlord Trait. Pay 20p for the Ceaseless Hunter Captain Commander Trait to give him the ability to fall back and charge. Add the Stasis Oubliette for fight last. You now have a super durable character that moves 14" and can easily hunt down enemy characters. He can't be tied down since he flies and can fall back and charge. This build does less damage to characters than the aforementioned Blade Champion, but this bike captain is a lot faster and arguably more flexible.

The Lawnmower (Blade Champion):
-give your Blade Champion the Auric Paragon and Peerless Warrior Warlord Trait by spending 1CP on "Victor of the Blood Games". Send this character towards hordes with his Hurricanis weapon profile to get 20 attacks that do mortal wounds on 6s to wound in addition to any other damage. You can even push this to 24 attacks with the right Vexillus Banner and Martial Ka'tah. Then spend another CP to use the Emperors Chosen specific stratagem to give your Blade Champion the benefit of the Dread Host fighting style, which improves his AP in combat by 1. So you get 20-24 attacks at S5, Ap2, Dmg1 that also do mortal wounds. For how cheap the blade champ is, this is actually insane.

You can also do this kind of build when you choose Dreadhost: give your Blade Champ the Dreadhost specific warlord trait "All-seeing Annihilator" and also "Peerless Warrior". So you get exploding 6s to hit and 6s to wound do mortal wounds. Dreadhost natively gives you +1AP, which is very good on your Hurricanis profile. This Dreadhost variant has greater high roll potential than the Emperor's Chosen build.



All things considered the new codex looks interesting and I am quite curious what type of lists are going to materialize with all these new options.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/10 15:26:24


Post by: KGYM


Thank you for the new thread and the write up. The latter helps a lot for newcomers (see Ork thread page 1, color coded unit analysis).


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/10 16:29:11


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


Great thread, thanks very much for this. Custodes are my new-year-new-army project, and I am excited for a higher skill army that is notably less OP than much of what I already own.

So here's a weird question. I know it isn't currently "meta" but several of our local players spam Guard Russes, Manticores, etc... How would Custodes even approach that match-up? Other than running loads of bikes with Salvo launchers, it seems virtually impossible to get mass anti-tank.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/10 16:40:35


Post by: Thairne


achillus dreads and telemon with arachnus cannons are both pretty nice.
Calladius grav tanks have strong shooting as well.
Those all hit on 2s, wound on 3s and do D3+3 damage. Thats a relatively easy 7-8 damage on each russ with average dice, I'd wager. And once they're down to the last bracket, they
're not that threatening anymore and can be picked up at your own leasure.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/10 16:41:32


Post by: Audustum


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Great thread, thanks very much for this. Custodes are my new-year-new-army project, and I am excited for a higher skill army that is notably less OP than much of what I already own.

So here's a weird question. I know it isn't currently "meta" but several of our local players spam Guard Russes, Manticores, etc... How would Custodes even approach that match-up? Other than running loads of bikes with Salvo launchers, it seems virtually impossible to get mass anti-tank.


Yes, mass ranged anti-tank is largely the domain of jetbike lists or Ares builds. The alternative is to slam down Dreads/Terminators from reserves and try to crush them in melee (probably want Dread Host or you could try running at them with Solar Watch). Even flat 2 damage wrecks Astra Militarum vehicles pretty handily.

Guard BS isn't great so if running across the field give your Custodes the -1 to be Hit flag unless you have a lot of dense cover. Should help.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/10 16:44:56


Post by: Thairne


What exactly is an Ares build?
I mean I know what an Ares is, yet I seem to have missed the memo when that thing became viable?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/10 17:00:25


Post by: Audustum


 Thairne wrote:
What exactly is an Ares build?
I mean I know what an Ares is, yet I seem to have missed the memo when that thing became viable?


It's been floating on the edge of viability with a podium placing or two for 9th Edition.

The idea is that you take the -1 to be Hit flag (though maybe not now as I don't think the Ares is CORE), the Ares, I believe 1 squad of sword + board, Trajann, Bike Captain (decked out to be unkillable: 3++, 5+++, Victor of the Blood Games re-roll) and then as many Caladii/Telemons/Palasus as you can shove in there. Telemons should be spec'd for pure shooting.

Telemons and vehicles hold backfield while going pew-pew. Ares positions to annihilate key enemy component pieces with Trajann and the flag following to buff it. The one Guardian squad is a troop tax and maybe for mid-field. The Bike Captain is for going into the enemy's backline to harass chaff holding back objectives.

Honestly, writing it out, most of this is now obsolete with 9th so it may not be workable anymore.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/10 17:43:41


Post by: Thairne


That's sad. Printing an Ares would be a fun past time, especially if you get to use it afterwards


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/10 17:45:28


Post by: Torgroll


Which one do you think is better overall?

Blade Champion:
WT:Lockwarden, Pearless Warrior
Relic: Stasis Oubliette

Allarus Shield Captain, Spear:
WT: Lockwarden, Superior Creation
CC: Defiant to the last
Relic:Gatekeeper

If that Allarus guy could kill a character, he would have 8x S5 AP- 3 Dmg2 attacks at 12" no ++ which are autohits and you can re-roll
wounds against characters.

Not sure which one is better...i mean i like the Blade Champion but im not sure if he is to slow in the end.
Here is the rest of my list, not finished yet (~200 points left)

Trajann
Blade Champion
Allarus Shield Captain, spear


3 Guards, sword + shield
3 Guards, sword + shield

5 Sisters of Silence, Prosecutors
5 Sisters of Silence, Prosecutors


Vexillus Praetor, Vexilla Defensor
Achillus, 2 Twin adrathic destructor
2 Allarus Custodians, spear


3 Vertus Praetors, salvo launchers
3 Vertus Praetors, salvo launchers




Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/10 18:27:58


Post by: Tiberias


Torgroll wrote:
Which one do you think is better overall?

Blade Champion:
WT:Lockwarden, Pearless Warrior
Relic: Stasis Oubliette

Allarus Shield Captain, Spear:
WT: Lockwarden, Superior Creation
CC: Defiant to the last
Relic:Gatekeeper

If that Allarus guy could kill a character, he would have 8x S5 AP- 3 Dmg2 attacks at 12" no ++ which are autohits and you can re-roll
wounds against characters.

Not sure which one is better...i mean i like the Blade Champion but im not sure if he is to slow in the end.
Here is the rest of my list, not finished yet (~200 points left)

Trajann
Blade Champion
Allarus Shield Captain, spear


3 Guards, sword + shield
3 Guards, sword + shield

5 Sisters of Silence, Prosecutors
5 Sisters of Silence, Prosecutors


Vexillus Praetor, Vexilla Defensor
Achillus, 2 Twin adrathic destructor
2 Allarus Custodians, spear


3 Vertus Praetors, salvo launchers
3 Vertus Praetors, salvo launchers




If you include that blade champion/allarus terminator to specifically hunt characters and also want him to be able to bring down tough characters with good consistency, then the blade champion provides the most consistent damage with flat 3 damage and Ap4. Flat out ignoring any save worse than a 2+ armor really goes a long way.

The blade champion is, like you said, quite slow however. If you want a faster option I'd go with a bike captain instead. Not as much damage as the blade champ, but way faster and harder to tie down, especially with the ceaseless hunter captain commander trait.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/10 19:07:28


Post by: Torgroll


Thats the point, is the Blade Champion that much better?

I mean as you said he has flat 3 damage, Ap4 and he would fight first but the Allarus Shield Captain would have 8 shots with S5 AP-2 Dmg2 which are autohitting and D3 shots with S5 AP-3 Dmg1 and he could re-roll all wounds. In melee he isn't that bad either, he could gain from his Captain Commander Trait +1 to wound or 1/2 attacks more and if you want Pearless Warrior too. If you could kill a character with him he would gain +1 AP from the Dreadhost Trait which would boost him really good.

So im not sure if he wouldn't be better overall because of his shooting attacks and teleport.
Both would be cool but you can only choose Lockwarden one time, right?


Edit: Yeah, i think your right, the Blade Champion is stronger for pure character killing, i forgot you could give him the Slayers of Nightmares Strategem which would boost him against T6+.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/10 19:48:16


Post by: cuda1179


Until now I have not really liked the idea of a terminator Captain. However, with the new relics he seems to be nifty. I'd like to convert one to stand out, so I think I'll use a Stormcast Annihilator I have in my bits box with an Allarus head. Don't know what would look the part of the super grenade launcher.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/10 20:26:40


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


We are sure he is on a 40m base correct?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/10 20:33:21


Post by: Eihnlazer


Since everyone likes memes, and the ares is cool, I got ya fam!:

Spoiler:
Emmisaries Imperatus Battalion detachment: 2000/2000pts 9/13CP

HQ
Trajann Valoris 160pts WL
SCoB- salvo launcher, CC-195 superior creation, radiant mantle, Castellans Mark

TROOP
Saggitarum guard x5 250
Saggitarum guard x5 250
Saggitarum guard x5 250

ELITE
Vexillas praetor in allarus /Vexilla magnifica &Fulminaris Aggresssor /wVoice of the Emperor 115

FA

HEAVY SUPPORT

AIRCRAFT
Ares 400
Ares 400



So this one is fun and makes use of the buffed Castellans mark to guarentee you get to use your big birds at least once. For secondaries your gonna take grind, EoaF, and depending on the enemy and mission take banners/TTL/or one of our custom ones.
deploy the ares first (and do it with flair), smuggly telling your opponent you fixing to drop the bomb on him. Hide your characters and sagg guard as best as you can. You have 8 drops so your opponents gonna finish after you, but you arent even gonna pay attention to his deploy.
If you get first turn, redeploy your 2 units for better firing positions and/or closer to an objective. If you go second, put both ares into reserves with the castellans mark.
For katah's, your either taking double advance dice, actions while shooting, or extra range for your first 2 selections. Third picks gonna almost always be the melee ka'tah cause your opponent will have closed with you by then.
Either way, have fun knowing without a doubt you'll get to blast 2 giga lazers into the opponent before they get to do anything about it.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/10 21:13:41


Post by: Thairne


bru
two of them.
Thats such an investment in time and painting... but it looks hilarious.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/10 22:37:15


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I think it's hilarious that what GW is trying to make us avoid playing, is the first thing people think to play. I hope FW doesn't lose the Shield Host abilities or Core/obsec.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/10 22:48:52


Post by: iGuy91


I gotta say. I'm torn between
Shadowkeepers
White Sc...I mean Solar Watch
Emmisaries
and Emperor's Chosen.

I think Dread Host is...good...but the benefits are kind of marginal IMO.

I must say, knowing what we know of the secondaries, what is everyone's take? I think the only real good one...is probably Auric Mortalis..


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/10 22:56:41


Post by: Necronmaniac05


Emperor's chosen for me I think. 4+++ Vs all mortal wounds is excellent for a low model count army like Custodes. Plus for 1CP I can put one unit in another shield host fighting style each turn.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/10 23:05:32


Post by: The Red Hobbit


Great write up Tiberias, thanks for the new thread. I've been playing my Orks recently but I'll see if I can get for my Shadowkeepers in next weekend.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/10 23:24:14


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


According to the boys at Tabletop Titans, it's Solar watch all day. I am not sure I agree, but they make a pretty convincing argument.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/10 23:40:49


Post by: Tiberias


 iGuy91 wrote:
I gotta say. I'm torn between
Shadowkeepers
White Sc...I mean Solar Watch
Emmisaries
and Emperor's Chosen.

I think Dread Host is...good...but the benefits are kind of marginal IMO.

I must say, knowing what we know of the secondaries, what is everyone's take? I think the only real good one...is probably Auric Mortalis..


I added the secondaries to the writeup and I agree. Only one that's really worth taking is Auric Mortalis, but that one is just so awsome and badass, that I'm tempted to take it every time
Stand Vigil could be decent depending on the mission.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 00:10:19


Post by: leerm02


Hmmm am I the only one who thinks that Dread Host is one of the best ones? Unless... the extra ap DOES apply to melee right?



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 02:53:17


Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis


When and how should we be expecting an update to the FW units? Will it be on an IA book or released on their own?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 03:33:41


Post by: Eihnlazer


leerm02 wrote:
Hmmm am I the only one who thinks that Dread Host is one of the best ones? Unless... the extra ap DOES apply to melee right?



It applies to everything. Honestly would only run a 6 man allarus unit in dread host as they are pretty scary shooting in salvus with ap-2 and ASA


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 05:22:31


Post by: xerxeskingofking


 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
When and how should we be expecting an update to the FW units? Will it be on an IA book or released on their own?


It will be a FAQ/errata to the IA book I would imagine pretty soon.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 08:38:20


Post by: ZergSmasher


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
According to the boys at Tabletop Titans, it's Solar watch all day. I am not sure I agree, but they make a pretty convincing argument.

According to Goonhammer's codex review, The Emperor's Chosen is the strongest, and I tend to agree there. Honestly all the Shield Hosts seem at least okay though. Between the new codex, an upcoming Combat Patrol box, and the fact that I've found some nice STL files for good proxies of certain FW units, I'm actually considering starting Custodes. I need another new army like I need a hole in my head, but at least Custodes is one of the cheapest if you don't take any FW stuff.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 10:13:08


Post by: Semper


 ZergSmasher wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
According to the boys at Tabletop Titans, it's Solar watch all day. I am not sure I agree, but they make a pretty convincing argument.

According to Goonhammer's codex review, The Emperor's Chosen is the strongest, and I tend to agree there. Honestly all the Shield Hosts seem at least okay though. Between the new codex, an upcoming Combat Patrol box, and the fact that I've found some nice STL files for good proxies of certain FW units, I'm actually considering starting Custodes. I need another new army like I need a hole in my head, but at least Custodes is one of the cheapest if you don't take any FW stuff.


TBF, I think they're all solid with probably Acquilian Shield being the weakest overall. From there it will likely depend on the army you're building and/or opponent and mission. Clearly some will work better against psychic or warp based armies, others against combat/horde focused. Really does become situational, especially with you take the K's into consideration as they can off-set some of the shield host specialisation to make it more TAAC.

Tabletop Titans definitely do have a point about the Allurus Commander. Being able to yeet a 4model obsec, tough character across the board and straight into hitting something is useful, the problem is ensuring you have the opportunity to do it well with such a low model count. Probably better paired with Dread, Keepers or Chosen (in that order) than Solar watch though. Will need testing to see if it's not just a shiny 'got'cha' gimmik.



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 12:09:21


Post by: Audustum


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
According to the boys at Tabletop Titans, it's Solar watch all day. I am not sure I agree, but they make a pretty convincing argument.


It's funny, I was listening to Art of War and they seem to think Solar Watch is one of the weakest (but still viable). They're big on Emperor's Chosen.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 12:21:32


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Everyone will be big on the Emperor's Chosen for a while I think, simply because of the defense. But in time the offensive power of the others will win out I think. Also, I trust the guys at Art of War about as far as I can throw one of them. YMMV.

So I'm giving up on the Bike list for now, as it's practically impossible to win the objective game now.

Gonna try and go Full Wardens for fun and see how far I can get. HQ of Trajaan and a Blade Champion.

3x3 spear guardians
3x6 spear wardens
2x mm Contemptors


Some prosecutors for flavor, or to get me closer to 2000.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 12:25:43


Post by: Tiberias


Audustum wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
According to the boys at Tabletop Titans, it's Solar watch all day. I am not sure I agree, but they make a pretty convincing argument.


It's funny, I was listening to Art of War and they seem to think Solar Watch is one of the weakest (but still viable). They're big on Emperor's Chosen.


I think it's really difficult to reach a final verdict yet. I'm obviously not as good of a player as the Art of War guys, but I honestly believe that Emissaries is also a contender. Emperor's Chosen is really pushed however and if dreadnoughts remain relevant (*cough*railgun*cough*) it might really edge out the other options.

Shadowkeepers might actually be somewhat overvalued, including by me. Don't get me wrond, Shadowkeepers can be utterly devastating in certain matchups and Grim Responsibility is still amazing, but Emperor's Chosen and Emissaries provide buffs that are always relevant.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 12:59:20


Post by: iGuy91


I think the thing that is making Emperor's Chosen shine for me is the fact that they can use other Shield Host's abilities for a turn for CP. Need to slow down a unit in melee, now they're shadow keepers and you're -1 attack against them. Or they reroll to wound a character.

Need to fall back, shoot something with the rest of your army and charge back in with your terminators? Well, good thing that squad is currently Solar Watch for CP.

That flexibility is rapidly growing on me the more I think about it.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 13:43:57


Post by: Tiberias


 iGuy91 wrote:
I think the thing that is making Emperor's Chosen shine for me is the fact that they can use other Shield Host's abilities for a turn for CP. Need to slow down a unit in melee, now they're shadow keepers and you're -1 attack against them. Or they reroll to wound a character.

Need to fall back, shoot something with the rest of your army and charge back in with your terminators? Well, good thing that squad is currently Solar Watch for CP.

That flexibility is rapidly growing on me the more I think about it.


The Emperor's Chosen specific stratagem might actually be my favourite new stratagem (well aside from Earning of a Name, cause that gak is badass). The flexibility and options it provides is truly amazing. Why can't we just pick a shield host for every unit seperately? Imagine that


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 13:51:05


Post by: Sterling191


Tiberias wrote:
Why can't we just pick a shield host for every unit seperately? Imagine that


That'll be the supplement AoR.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 15:02:58


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


The new Eldar Fire Dragons are leaked, and they are packing d6+4, which is INSANE. 5-10 models, 23 points each. They have a 12" A1 S9 AP4 d6+2. For an extra 10 points, you get 18" A1 S9, AP4 d6+4. Oh and they get the strands of fate Miracle dice.

This is why I feel like the Emperor's Chosen is a bit of a distraction. When there is hella cheap anti-tank fire on the battlefield, a 4+ against mortals isn't doing us any big favors. We need to hit harder, not take hits better. Solar and Shadow help us kill better. We need to break away from the Turtle style of gameplay that we've become used to, and get out there and kill fast.



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 15:52:33


Post by: leerm02



Hey everyone,

So, I have a slight problem and I wanted to get some advice. My local store is awesome, but recently implemented a policy where tournaments require 100% GW and FW models. MOST of my Custodes are some version of 3rd party conversion... but I crunched the numbers and I do have enough “official” stuff to put together a somewhat odd 2k point list.

Essentially:

1 Allarus Captain (with a converted Obliteratum, but apparently that's cool)

1 Blade Champion (actually not the official model, but it's a GW conversion, so apparently that's okay)

9x shield custodes (three squads of three)

x2 Contemptor Dreads (One MM and One Kheres)

x2 Galatus Dreads

x2 Achillus Dreads (gun choice isn't glued on yet)

x1 Venerable Land Raider

=

somewhere around 1990 pts with the new point costs (assuming the Achillus have the expensive guns)



So here is my question: is this even vaguely competitive as it stands? I figure I'm going to have to shell out for a few more official GW stuff pretty soon and start tweaking things, (probably getting rid of the LR first,) but right now this is what I have that meets the criteria.

Also, what shield host would you pick for the above list? Right now I'm leaning towards Dreadhost, but I can definitely be persuaded to some other shieldhost.

Thanks in advance!



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 16:19:41


Post by: stratigo


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Everyone will be big on the Emperor's Chosen for a while I think, simply because of the defense. But in time the offensive power of the others will win out I think. Also, I trust the guys at Art of War about as far as I can throw one of them. YMMV.

So I'm giving up on the Bike list for now, as it's practically impossible to win the objective game now.

Gonna try and go Full Wardens for fun and see how far I can get. HQ of Trajaan and a Blade Champion.

3x3 spear guardians
3x6 spear wardens
2x mm Contemptors


Some prosecutors for flavor, or to get me closer to 2000.


Emperor's chosen boosts dreadnoughts that we still kinda need because everything in the game is getting -1 damage.

We absolutely can't rely on our infantry to match up against other combat specialists, they will just lose. It's dreadnoughts and missile bikes and characters. And even our characters kind of fall flat into -1 damage. Like, for 175 points you can have the honor of dying in 1 turn to a beastsnagga boss on the sqig that's 30 points cheaper after you do maybe 2 or 3 damage to him with your vertus shield captain.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The new Eldar Fire Dragons are leaked, and they are packing d6+4, which is INSANE. 5-10 models, 23 points each. They have a 12" A1 S9 AP4 d6+2. For an extra 10 points, you get 18" A1 S9, AP4 d6+4. Oh and they get the strands of fate Miracle dice.

This is why I feel like the Emperor's Chosen is a bit of a distraction. When there is hella cheap anti-tank fire on the battlefield, a 4+ against mortals isn't doing us any big favors. We need to hit harder, not take hits better. Solar and Shadow help us kill better. We need to break away from the Turtle style of gameplay that we've become used to, and get out there and kill fast.



If they suppress armor hard enough, custodes is a dead letter.

But like, custodes are fethed into eldar. They are getting super AT to kill our dreads. Then they get -1 damage tough objective grabbers. And like, bizarro world super durable wave serpents cause the eldar rules writer went "Oh we have started to overtune AT damage? Better make sure the wave serpent is very hard to kill into that. Oh and fething unkillable to anyone without that lul"

Remember, the playtesters have gone "Eldar are fethed, there's no hope, burn all your other armies"


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 16:35:50


Post by: Necronmaniac05


I'm prepared to withhold judgement until i have the codex and until I see the final Eldar codex rules. You can out range the fire dragons with spears or axes and will make some holes in them with S4 AP-1 D2 shooting but i do take the point more generally in terms of upcoming codexes and their damage output. The tau railgun was insane, the heavy wraithcannon looks almost as bad, now we have the fusion pikes on the fire dragons. There seems to be no logic behind what gets what damage and why, the fact that improvised mining equipment does more damage than the weapons of the elite guardians of the emperor of mankind shows this. Why are the custodes not just going grabbing some mining picks and defending the emperor with those? In any case, spare a thought for the poor necrons whose entire weapon range almost seems to just have a spin the wheel approach to damage.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 16:41:31


Post by: Audustum


Fire Dragons have hurt our infantry since start of 8th. It's not really new. They get murderized in return pretty easily once out of transport. It's like playing any Eldar: blow (transport), torch (contents). Rinse and repeat. We'll need full datasheets/strats/e.t.c. to see the optimal way of doing that.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 16:42:14


Post by: stratigo


Blowing the transport isn't gonna happen. Have you seen what they're doing to wave serpents?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 16:42:21


Post by: Audustum


leerm02 wrote:

Hey everyone,

So, I have a slight problem and I wanted to get some advice. My local store is awesome, but recently implemented a policy where tournaments require 100% GW and FW models. MOST of my Custodes are some version of 3rd party conversion... but I crunched the numbers and I do have enough “official” stuff to put together a somewhat odd 2k point list.

Essentially:

1 Allarus Captain (with a converted Obliteratum, but apparently that's cool)

1 Blade Champion (actually not the official model, but it's a GW conversion, so apparently that's okay)

9x shield custodes (three squads of three)

x2 Contemptor Dreads (One MM and One Kheres)

x2 Galatus Dreads

x2 Achillus Dreads (gun choice isn't glued on yet)

x1 Venerable Land Raider

=

somewhere around 1990 pts with the new point costs (assuming the Achillus have the expensive guns)



So here is my question: is this even vaguely competitive as it stands? I figure I'm going to have to shell out for a few more official GW stuff pretty soon and start tweaking things, (probably getting rid of the LR first,) but right now this is what I have that meets the criteria.

Also, what shield host would you pick for the above list? Right now I'm leaning towards Dreadhost, but I can definitely be persuaded to some other shieldhost.

Thanks in advance!



You're mostly O.K. except for the two plastic contemptors (MM and Kheres) and the Landraider. Those are generally considered pretty bleh.

For Shield Host, look at Emperor's Chosen. Less for the 4+++ and more for the '1 re-roll per squad'. You have a lot of MSU here so that gets some mileage.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 18:19:01


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Wait, Obliteratum has a specific model? I thought it was just a normal grenade launcher on the wrist.

Also, I'd go out on a limb and ask if they'd let you "counts as" the Contemptors as something else.

Finally, Necrons are suffering from "first codex" syndrome. The first codex is always garbage by the end of an edition. First and last. Last because you only get to play it for about 6-12 months, if that. Sisters dropped in 8th and we had 9th like what, 4 months later?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 19:33:38


Post by: nordsturmking


I am trying to figure out why GW didn't make axes 3D, I think they considered it and decided against it. The reason I can think of is that 3D axes would be too power full with wardens and Allarus hitting on 2+, 4 attacks and being hard to kill. Besides Deathwing knights I can't think of any unit with a 3D weapon that hits on 2+ and has a 2+/4++.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 19:44:24


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


S8, 5 attacks, ap3 D3, with the new katas, our axes would have been anti-horde as well as anti-elite.

I just want either all bikes to lose ObSec, or give us back obsec.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 19:46:39


Post by: novembermike


I seriously doubt that Fire Dragons will be our bane. They look good but eldar are only going to take so many of them and the short range means they need to be paired with a transport to really work. They'll hurt but they should be manageable.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 20:07:59


Post by: PandatheWarrior


Hey guys what you think of the elite sisters units.

I was thinking a hq with flame relic with the flamers or small squads of vigilators.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 20:34:34


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


So the flamers are interesting, a horde of auto-hitting S5 ap1 d1 shooting is a great way to thin out hordes, and even SM.

The sword sisters are still mostly useless, given we don't need S6 melee, at all.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 20:52:13


Post by: Eihnlazer


Ok peeps, time for another meme list only this time from solar watch. I lovingly dub this the First Turn Funk House:

Spoiler:
Solar Watch Battalion 2000/2000pts 10/13CP

HQ
Trajann Valoris WL 160
Shield Captain on Bike/w Ceasless Hunter, Salvo launcher, Auric Aquillos, Sally Forth, Superior Creation 180

TROOPS
Spear Guard x4 180
Spear Guard x3 135
Spear Guard x3 135

ELITE
Vexillas Praetor in terminator armor/w Castellans Mark 115
Aquillon Terminators x6 /wSolarite gauntlets and Lastrum 420
Allarus Terminator 60
Allarus Terminator 60
Allarus terminator 60

FA
Venetari x5 275
HS

DT
Coronus Heavy Grav Tank 220



Alright so heres the plan. Behind enemy lines, banners/strangle, Our new Kill secondary/assasinate/BiD (whichever is better into opponent).
Deployment, Coronus on the line, vexilla hidden, spear guard hidden, bike captain on the line, venetari and terminators hidden. Allarus in deep strike. Trajann with the spear guard. Take Calistus, Dacatarai or Rendax depending on opponent, then kaptaris or salvus. Stance 1 first round (use both if you plan on swapping turn 2).
If you get first turn you win. redeploy the vex and venetari into the coronus and prepare for fun. If you get second you can move the coronus into a saver position and put the venetari into deep strike.

Plan is though, very simple. Vexilla exits coronus and advances. If you roll less than a 4 on both dice use a reroll. Run him straight at the things you want dead. Next up, exit the venetari, also advancing, towards a target they can mulch pretty easily. With average rolls you should be able to move them about 20" up the field. Bike captain activates the double move on his auric and lands 35" up the field right where he needs to be to buff the venetari and the terminators after they charge. trajaan, shield boys, and coronus move onto as many objectives as they can. End of the move phase you teleport your aquilons 9" away from whatever needs to die off the vex.

Shoot any screens or weak obsec units you want in the shooting phase, then have a blast as you go into the charge phase with your opponent still processing you making a first turn charge with a unit of termies and venetari.

You have an 8" charge with the termies and possibly an even shorter one with the venetari.


If the fighting goes like you want, you can score Behind on turn one potentially. If not, you'll have single man allarus dropping in to score that for you in turn 2 and afterwards.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 21:34:08


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Can we still take Sag troops in groups of 5? Because 250 points is a small amount for a Strike Force of Emperors Chosen in the backfield.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 21:50:11


Post by: Eihnlazer


saggitarum datasheet hasnt changed at all to my knowledge.

Until the FAQ drops they dont even benefit from ka'tahs


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/11 23:59:35


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


No, but they do get shield host benefits, and FGLTC. That's all that is needed.

Until they release the updated Las-Rifles for Cadians. Assault 4 at 18" S4 AP2 D1.

Or the new Basilisk Profile: No LOS, Heavy 3 72" S10 ap4, d3+3.
or Heavy 1 72" S14 AP5 D6+6 Earthshaker round.

/S


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 01:10:44


Post by: stratigo


novembermike wrote:
I seriously doubt that Fire Dragons will be our bane. They look good but eldar are only going to take so many of them and the short range means they need to be paired with a transport to really work. They'll hurt but they should be manageable.


Look, wave serpents are gonna be a thing, and really, put whatever in them really. It doesn't matter.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 03:04:50


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Like a lot of people, I've had Custodes on the mind recently, but I have a query for those that have experiencing playing them:

Are misericordia worth taking?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 05:24:33


Post by: cuda1179


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Like a lot of people, I've had Custodes on the mind recently, but I have a query for those that have experiencing playing them:

Are misericordia worth taking?


I thought someone stated they are free upgrades now? If so, then that's a definite yes.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 05:26:46


Post by: Audustum


 cuda1179 wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Like a lot of people, I've had Custodes on the mind recently, but I have a query for those that have experiencing playing them:

Are misericordia worth taking?


I thought someone stated they are free upgrades now? If so, then that's a definite yes.


That's a rumor for the next CA which comes out like a week after our Codex. So we'll know soon.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 09:21:45


Post by: Thairne


If not, Misericordias are more of a "I have 20 pts left and no other way to put them".
They're filler and obligatory on Saggitarum Guard. Otherwise - nice to have, but not worth taking over anything else.
Once they go free - why WOULDN'T you?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 10:07:43


Post by: Insularum


Plenty of codex reviews up on youtube showing page by page (sprues & brews has a decent clear vid without potato cam quality) - misericordia are not free, generally 5 on a character and 3 on a squad. Also, Wardens don't have them as standard anymore - they have to pay (but still work out cheaper than before so not bad).

As before, Sag Guard need them, everywhere else they are a way of burning those last few points. In Crusade games the relic knife looks ok I guess.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 10:21:47


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I take them, if only because it's resulted in some pretty hilarious last ditch kills. Especially on bikers with re-roll wounds. Which isn't a thing anymore. But still, logic applies.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 10:56:59


Post by: KGYM


 Insularum wrote:
Plenty of codex reviews up on youtube showing page by page (sprues & brews has a decent clear vid without potato cam quality) - misericordia are not free, generally 5 on a character and 3 on a squad. Also, Wardens don't have them as standard anymore - they have to pay (but still work out cheaper than before so not bad).

As before, Sag Guard need them, everywhere else they are a way of burning those last few points. In Crusade games the relic knife looks ok I guess.


We are talking about MFM leaks, preorder probably jan22, and they have free misericordias.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 11:57:30


Post by: JNAProductions


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I take them, if only because it's resulted in some pretty hilarious last ditch kills. Especially on bikers with re-roll wounds. Which isn't a thing anymore. But still, logic applies.
Reroll wounds was a weapon rule, not a model rule.
So if you were rerolling your Misericordia wound rolls on Vertus Praetors before... You were cheating.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 12:32:57


Post by: tneva82


KGYM wrote:
 Insularum wrote:
Plenty of codex reviews up on youtube showing page by page (sprues & brews has a decent clear vid without potato cam quality) - misericordia are not free, generally 5 on a character and 3 on a squad. Also, Wardens don't have them as standard anymore - they have to pay (but still work out cheaper than before so not bad).

As before, Sag Guard need them, everywhere else they are a way of burning those last few points. In Crusade games the relic knife looks ok I guess.


We are talking about MFM leaks, preorder probably jan22, and they have free misericordias.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfQplsy7xw0 <- same leaks as these rather suspicious looking ones?

Wouldn't count on custodians getting point changes right away with just book coming out. Albeit GW doesn't change points for sake of balance but for marketing but still bit rich.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 12:47:18


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I'll be honest, I don't understand the point of upping our Contemptor by 40 points, but only leaving the other Dreads alone. Custodes Contemptors weren't really tearing up the Meta, ever. But I guess if GW wants to flat our nerf a unit, it can do it.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 12:51:28


Post by: Audustum


tneva82 wrote:
KGYM wrote:
 Insularum wrote:
Plenty of codex reviews up on youtube showing page by page (sprues & brews has a decent clear vid without potato cam quality) - misericordia are not free, generally 5 on a character and 3 on a squad. Also, Wardens don't have them as standard anymore - they have to pay (but still work out cheaper than before so not bad).

As before, Sag Guard need them, everywhere else they are a way of burning those last few points. In Crusade games the relic knife looks ok I guess.


We are talking about MFM leaks, preorder probably jan22, and they have free misericordias.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfQplsy7xw0 <- same leaks as these rather suspicious looking ones?

Wouldn't count on custodians getting point changes right away with just book coming out. Albeit GW doesn't change points for sake of balance but for marketing but still bit rich.


I didn't click this link cause of where I am at the moment, but for clarity, the CA/MFM leaks are from Canhammer which is claiming to have an exclusive.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 13:40:20


Post by: stratigo


Darren on canhammer has a strong track record of being on the ball with leaks. He’s very cautious about them usually.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 13:40:49


Post by: KGYM


tneva82 wrote:
KGYM wrote:
 Insularum wrote:
Plenty of codex reviews up on youtube showing page by page (sprues & brews has a decent clear vid without potato cam quality) - misericordia are not free, generally 5 on a character and 3 on a squad. Also, Wardens don't have them as standard anymore - they have to pay (but still work out cheaper than before so not bad).

As before, Sag Guard need them, everywhere else they are a way of burning those last few points. In Crusade games the relic knife looks ok I guess.


We are talking about MFM leaks, preorder probably jan22, and they have free misericordias.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfQplsy7xw0 <- same leaks as these rather suspicious looking ones?

Wouldn't count on custodians getting point changes right away with just book coming out. Albeit GW doesn't change points for sake of balance but for marketing but still bit rich.


Custodes codex was completed around last summer, but the whole publishing schedule was pushed due to covid. This is not "right away", this is half a year later.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 13:57:29


Post by: cuda1179


Rumors from Spikey Bits say the FAQ points adjustments will pretty much be a day-1 download. Guardians 45 points. Also it will likely settle whether or not the ForgeWorld weapons count as "auric" or not. Frankly, I think they should as it would make spear Venatari less derpy, and the dreadnought silly good.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 14:50:05


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


The "dreadnought" being the Telemon or the Contemptor? because even a Melta Contemptor at 200 points 185 base (Melta is +15?) is waaaay over costed. Also, the Telemon being 285 base with storm cannons being +15 each is an ugly nerf. I only saw the video, please tell me I got the numbers wrong.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 15:05:46


Post by: Balerion


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The "dreadnought" being the Telemon or the Contemptor? because even a Melta Contemptor at 200 points 185 base (Melta is +15?) is waaaay over costed. Also, the Telemon being 285 base with storm cannons being +15 each is an ugly nerf. I only saw the video, please tell me I got the numbers wrong.

Where are you getting 200pts for Contemptor? The melta, ugly one, is 155pts in the codex.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 17:15:04


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Balerion wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The "dreadnought" being the Telemon or the Contemptor? because even a Melta Contemptor at 200 points 185 base (Melta is +15?) is waaaay over costed. Also, the Telemon being 285 base with storm cannons being +15 each is an ugly nerf. I only saw the video, please tell me I got the numbers wrong.

Where are you getting 200pts for Contemptor? The melta, ugly one, is 155pts in the codex.


Watch the video. The "leaks" show 185 for the model. My mistake, zero update on cost of melta. possible no charge for either weapon. Just a straight up 30 point nerf. This is the sort of Day 1 DLC a lot of people worry about. Drop a dex followed by immediate point nerfs after sales have gone out. Hopefully this is fake leaking, and we didn't just catch a day 1 nerf to our Telemon.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 18:19:29


Post by: nordsturmking


The leaks in the TacticalTortoise video are almost certainly fake, look at the comments
Spoiler:
ShadowDrakken: "
Knowing how publishing software works -- I worked as a layout designer for three years -- the leaders (they're periods, not ellipsis) and the points alignment issues: those definitely wouldn't happen because of the way tabs and leaders work. Typos are one thing, and alignment issues CAN happen, but not typically in text tables.

From the standpoint of publishing, this looks extremely suspect at best. "


I trust the Canhammer leaks from Darren:

CHAPTER APPROVED 1 week later
I have it on good authority that MFM drops 1 week after the codex (Jan 22), and that points are
all dropping for us.
• Misericordia free across the board
• Trajan 160
SC on bike 160
• Blade champ 120
SC on foot 105 (+10 shield, free mis)
SC allarus 115
• Valerian 130
• Allarus 60 both weapons
• Guardians 45 (+10 for shields)
• Wardens 50
• Venatari 55. (Auric under debate as defined as any built in shooting and melee weapon,
so possible that spears, venatari spears, dread weapons count)
• Vex 105, allarus vex 115
• Bikers 80
• Ugly dread 155
• Sisters unchanged (12/14/14)
• Adrasite spear guard 55
Sags 50 (+3 for mis will be FAQd again)
• Aquilon base 70 (+10 for destructor or flamer)
• Galatus 170
• Achillus 160 (+10 for wrists)
• Agamatus 95
• Pallas 95
• Caladius 205
• Telemon 260 (+15 for storms)
• Orion 450
• Ares 400
• Coronus 220

Only the 10 points for shields make no sense.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 18:30:15


Post by: Tiberias


Wait, Trajann gets cheaper?! That I did not expect

It'd be quite funny if venatari lances get to be auric weapons and pistols don't. Suddenly the lances would become viable, when nobody ever took them in forever


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 18:51:09


Post by: Balerion


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Balerion wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The "dreadnought" being the Telemon or the Contemptor? because even a Melta Contemptor at 200 points 185 base (Melta is +15?) is waaaay over costed. Also, the Telemon being 285 base with storm cannons being +15 each is an ugly nerf. I only saw the video, please tell me I got the numbers wrong.

Where are you getting 200pts for Contemptor? The melta, ugly one, is 155pts in the codex.


Watch the video. The "leaks" show 185 for the model. My mistake, zero update on cost of melta. possible no charge for either weapon. Just a straight up 30 point nerf. This is the sort of Day 1 DLC a lot of people worry about. Drop a dex followed by immediate point nerfs after sales have gone out. Hopefully this is fake leaking, and we didn't just catch a day 1 nerf to our Telemon.

Then CA22 leaks from can hammer, that are posted also above, have Contemptor at 155pts, so no change. That's including multi melta.
FW contemptors will also stay the at 160pts.

And according to the leak, if true, misericordias are going to be free for everyone.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 19:25:14


Post by: Eihnlazer


points changes look legit actually, other than the shield nerf. Misericordas should have been free to begin with as every custodes has one and its a way to fix the small base attacks per point we have in melee.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 20:08:43


Post by: Torgroll


Guys, if i play a Shadowkeeper Patrol Detachment and a Dread Host Patrol Detachment do i get their specific traits for each Shield Host Detachment or do i lose them because i play two different Shield Hosts?

Whats with that Kata stuff if i play two different Shield Host Detachments?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 20:43:13


Post by: Balerion


If you play 2 shield hosts, you lose access to Kata. But you get both shield host benefits (traits, wtl, etc)

I was considering this, but I think I'll ho mono for first couple games to try katas.

But combining 2 shield hosts (as long as it's allowed), sounds pretty good actually.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 21:10:17


Post by: The Red Hobbit


Interesting, I didn't know that. I started collecting Custodes because they were such a simple army to play as, getting a benefit and losing word salad Katas sounds somewhat appealing.

Of course then I'd have to paint a new batch of Custodes hah!


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 21:28:23


Post by: Audustum


I'm most tempted to say ditch the Katah for the soup. Blade Champion loves Shadowkeepers and slots easily into an add-on Patrol.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 21:34:59


Post by: Eihnlazer


Ok, worked out the kinks on the SoS list so here it be:

Spoiler:
2000pts/2000 10/12

HQ -240
Valarian WL
Centura/w Relic Flamer
Centura/w Greatblade, no obsec, and mantle

TROOP -380
Prosecutors x5
Prosecutors x5
Prosecutors x5
Prosecutors x5
Prosecutors x10

ELITE -420
Vigilators x10
Vigilators x10
Vigilators x10

FA - 420
Witchseekers x10
Witchseekers x10
Witchseekers x10

DT -560
Rhino/w HK missle x7



Alright so 7 10 man squads in 7 rhinos. Pretty straightfowards. 11 infantry units, 7 rhinos, 3 character. Secondaries should be relicated to holding objectives and actions. We only have teeth into psychers and deamons but can actually mulch marines with the sisters as well. Because Valarian is in the list we get access to the +1 to hit strat which should help a bit. We also gain tanglefoot for usefulness. The Vman himself can earn a name potentially and gets a shield host trait with katah of your choice. I'd probably go shadowkeepers, but Solar Watch is also useful for him.

You get 30 bolters, 7 storm bolters, 7 HK missles for turn one, and 30 flamers for shooting. The flamers actually can put out some serious damage, and one unit gets the strat for +1str. The vigilators get the +1 to wound strat and are no slouches in combat either. Psychic armies will hate you, as you are mostly immune to them and can double perils them. They will be at -3 to cast from turn 2 and onwards most likely wich will make their buffing hard. Your characters will have to run up the board, but with all the rhinos to hide behind they should be safe.


SoS might be squishy, but you have 90 of the girls, plus 7 rhinos and 3 characters. This list is actually a hoard..........


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 22:05:44


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


So two big things for me:

1. Pallas Grav attack now may be our best disruption unit. 95 points for a weaker Storm cannon on a flying 14" moving T6 platform with 8 wounds? Yes please.

If Venetari are 55 points, I'll take three full units every day now.

Also, they made Agamatus MORE expensive, given how crap they already are, that is hilarious.

Finally,


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/12 22:50:21


Post by: artific3r


That list would make a fun narrative game against daemons.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 00:41:04


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Why would shields on Custodes go up in cost?



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 00:54:34


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Why would shields on Custodes go up in cost?



Easy, because the CA was written before the Codex.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 02:06:24


Post by: leerm02


I know it's a bit early and all, but can someone explain to me the whole "two shield host" thing? Because, being brutally honest, I kinda hate the Katas and if I could get rid of them AND get some amazing benefit then they will get yeeted from my playlist so fast...

With the two detachment thing, specifically: would you need to ensure that each detachment was very clearly marked and thus each would only benefit from the one shield host? Because if somehow all your units benefited from both shield-host abilities... well, that would be amazingly janky (and probably FAQ'ed away very quickly).


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 03:27:06


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


According to the upcoming Soup leaks, (This is getting silly) you can take subfactions together soon, with no negative detriment. The example provided was two separate hives of tyranids in the same list. Honestly, this makes a lot of sense. I always thought it was silly how they doubled down on killing soup. They redesigned the CP and detachment system, so souping wasn't a way to get cheap CP, but then they said if you soup, you lose purity. which makes no sense.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 04:05:38


Post by: The Red Hobbit


I'm also very interested in this. I'd be surprised if both detachments could benefit from each shield-host but if they could that'd be very impressive.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 06:15:03


Post by: Eihnlazer


If you take seperate shield hosts/hivefleets/forgeworlds then yes they must be clearly differentiated from each other in paint scheme to prevent confusion.

And no, you wouldnt be double stacking any shield hosts bonus's.

As of now you loose the ka'tah's, which is fair.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 07:06:28


Post by: Salt donkey


While I don’t think losing Ka’tahs by themselves is enough not to go 2 detachments, losing CP is a harsher cost for us than many other armies. Due to this, I don’t think it’s worth doing this.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 08:06:50


Post by: tneva82


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
According to the upcoming Soup leaks, (This is getting silly) you can take subfactions together soon, with no negative detriment. The example provided was two separate hives of tyranids in the same list. Honestly, this makes a lot of sense. I always thought it was silly how they doubled down on killing soup. They redesigned the CP and detachment system, so souping wasn't a way to get cheap CP, but then they said if you soup, you lose purity. which makes no sense.


Uh pretty sure rumour is opposite. Can't subfaction soup at all. That's why sister players are all rage atm.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 09:53:24


Post by: Salt donkey


Yeah rumor is that armies will be locked to 1 sub faction. Would make sense as GWs is all about adding army restrictions in 9th. If true than I think battalion armies will be the clear cut choice.



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 09:57:04


Post by: tneva82


Well many armies still want multiple det's for extra HQ/HS/whatever slot.

Custodians probably don't need unless they want multiple bike/termi captain etc.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 13:07:27


Post by: leerm02


Thanks for the clarification everyone!

On another note, considering our faction's problem with anti-tank: what do you guys think about the Custodes with Pyrithite spears? The range is almost absurdly short, but it's basically a melta AND the folks wielding it are troops...

The price tag is a bit steep, but I think it might have some viability. Adrasite spears seem somewhat useless to me though.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 14:51:17


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


leerm02 wrote:
Thanks for the clarification everyone!

On another note, considering our faction's problem with anti-tank: what do you guys think about the Custodes with Pyrithite spears? The range is almost absurdly short, but it's basically a melta AND the folks wielding it are troops...

The price tag is a bit steep, but I think it might have some viability. Adrasite spears seem somewhat useless to me though.


Andrastite spears were an attempt at making hipowered anti-elite shooting. They suck now, ignore them.

For anti-tank, our best options are either bike squads with melta missiles, or our Dreads. The Telemon with dual storm canons strikes fear in everything, same with dual fists, which I call Fisto-Roboto.

The Ares is our crem-de-la-crem of anti-tank, and if there is something that survives it's magna cannon, run, because it's immortal, and now it's pissed and in pain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
New leaks:



I don't know whether to cry or just laugh. This has gonna mean the Shadow sword is gonna do 20-30 damage per hit.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 16:00:27


Post by: Tiberias


Lol at the new Stormsurge gun they just previewed on Warcom. The railgun is still way scarier, especially for us, but flat 12 dmg is really something.
It's not as bad though with 24" range and not ignoring invulns, just seems really scary at first glance.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 17:42:41


Post by: The Red Hobbit


12 DMG eh? That's the same damage as a Reaver Volcano cannon as I recall. I wonder if they'll be updating Titan profiles as well after they finish Tau.

Since it doesn't ignore Invuls it's still less dangerous to us than the railgun.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 17:54:28


Post by: leerm02


The new tau guns are so bananas that I'm half wondering if there are going to be some seriously bad drawbacks to the army we aren't being shown. Something like:

"Tau players never get an armor save of any kind ever and if anyone ever attempts an armor save then you have the game's written permission to smack them in the face."


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 18:10:58


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


 The Red Hobbit wrote:
12 DMG eh? That's the same damage as a Reaver Volcano cannon as I recall. I wonder if they'll be updating Titan profiles as well after they finish Tau.

Since it doesn't ignore Invuls it's still less dangerous to us than the railgun.


Notice the 4 damage 6 shot burst fire. Also, this unit/weapon has a shoot twice strat currently (Please nerf dear god). I don't want to face this thing if it shoots twice. That is a dead squad of bikes per turn. 13.333 wounds on a Telemon, 17 and change to an Ares. (In Focused mode)


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 18:17:43


Post by: Eihnlazer


the 24" range on the big shot means that wont happen too often on such a slow unit.

The 6 shot burst though is gonna be rough on us. Thats 2 or 3 dead terminators per volley.

It has other guns too.

Glad to see its been improved but im not sure why these armies are getting such a huge glow up when all we got are tricks.

All i know is im expecting the Ares main gun to get buffed big time even with the points drop.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 20:44:43


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


 Eihnlazer wrote:
the 24" range on the big shot means that wont happen too often on such a slow unit.

The 6 shot burst though is gonna be rough on us. Thats 2 or 3 dead terminators per volley.

It has other guns too.

Glad to see its been improved but im not sure why these armies are getting such a huge glow up when all we got are tricks.

All i know is im expecting the Ares main gun to get buffed big time even with the points drop.


I'm eagerly awaiting that truth man. I'd love a 36" Heavy 2 S16 AP5 D8 shooter, with a volley setting of H6 AP4 6 damage. But I doubt it with the points drop. I'd also love to see Aquilons get something hot for the cost bumb.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 20:55:00


Post by: leerm02


You know, for some reason this didn't occur to me earlier but:

Wouldn't it be exactly on theme for our codex to be a bit of a sidegrade but whenever the new FW rules come out they are crazy-go-nuts powerful?

For a long time the "common wisdom" of the Custodes faction has been that you need FW units to really compete (It's debatable I know, but you have to admit the idea gets thrown around a lot). So if that trend continues I could totally see the ACTUAL power units of our faction just being stupidly expensive FW models...


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 21:02:37


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


leerm02 wrote:
You know, for some reason this didn't occur to me earlier but:

Wouldn't it be exactly on theme for our codex to be a bit of a sidegrade but whenever the new FW rules come out they are crazy-go-nuts powerful?

For a long time the "common wisdom" of the Custodes faction has been that you need FW units to really compete (It's debatable I know, but you have to admit the idea gets thrown around a lot). So if that trend continues I could totally see the ACTUAL power units of our faction just being stupidly expensive FW models...


That would be something indeed. But I seriously don't see GW running that direction. I have yet to see GW actually buff a FW unit in 9th.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 21:52:42


Post by: H.B.M.C.


What does S12 or S16 matter when GW won't use Toughness values above 9 (and even then, that's the Warlord Titan's toughness!)?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 22:32:18


Post by: nordsturmking


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What does S12 or S16 matter when GW won't use Toughness values above 9 (and even then, that's the Warlord Titan's toughness!)?

Wounding T8 on 3+ or 2+ that the reason.

I think people are overreacting because 12D seem nuts. its not gonna be as game breaking as people think because GW now is pretty fast with balancing compared two a few years a go when we hat 1 and half years of Castellan meta or a year of Ynnari bs where players got tabled in their own turn.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 22:56:25


Post by: Necronmaniac05


 nordsturmking wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What does S12 or S16 matter when GW won't use Toughness values above 9 (and even then, that's the Warlord Titan's toughness!)?

Wounding T8 on 3+ or 2+ that the reason.

I think people are overreacting because 12D seem nuts. its not gonna be as game breaking as people think because GW now is pretty fast with balancing compared two a few years a go when we hat 1 and half years of Castellan meta or a year of Ynnari bs where players got tabled in their own turn.


I don't think the issue is we might have to wait ages for this to be fixed it is more....why did someone even think this was a good idea? Like why are they even putting a gun like that in the game? I really hope it is not as simple for Tau to get Markerlights down for +1 to hit as it used to be.or that they have as many ignores cover things as they used to have.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 23:07:46


Post by: iGuy91


It looks like to fight Tau we'll need to rely more on deep strikers and obscuring terrain to get close enough to break through. The Tau army by and large doesn't have a lot of invulns (outside shield drones, which may change), and much of the anti-tank is stuck on semi-mobile or fragile platforms, so our anti-tank should also in kind be effective. Tau still have to come to midboard to really play the game. When you fight them, plan to deploy out of LOS, limit those alpha strikes.

They've also ALWAYS had an achilles heel with anything making their base BS 4+ -1 to hit. It really cuts down what they can do.



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 23:39:47


Post by: nordsturmking


Necronmaniac05 wrote:
 nordsturmking wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What does S12 or S16 matter when GW won't use Toughness values above 9 (and even then, that's the Warlord Titan's toughness!)?

Wounding T8 on 3+ or 2+ that the reason.

I think people are overreacting because 12D seem nuts. its not gonna be as game breaking as people think because GW now is pretty fast with balancing compared two a few years a go when we hat 1 and half years of Castellan meta or a year of Ynnari bs where players got tabled in their own turn.


I don't think the issue is we might have to wait ages for this to be fixed it is more....why did someone even think this was a good idea? Like why are they even putting a gun like that in the game? I really hope it is not as simple for Tau to get Markerlights down for +1 to hit as it used to be.or that they have as many ignores cover things as they used to have.


I agree its a bad idea to put such a gun in the game on a knight sized model that should be a titan scale model. And especially the hammerhead rail gun is a bad idea (because it has no interaction) and will probably create a lot of feels bad moments.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/13 23:53:58


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 nordsturmking wrote:
Wounding T8 on 3+ or 2+ that the reason.
Seems like a situation that only exists because GW is afraid of giving anything high toughnesses.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 00:11:16


Post by: Azuza001


So played my first game yesterday with the new codex, played as my Shadowkeepers because they are the shield host I have always run. My opponent played Nidzilla tyranids using all the new rules from the white dwarf and supplement.

Overall was a very interesting game. My list was

Spoiler:


Hq =

Shield captain w/ sword and shield, peerless Warrior warlord trait, veiled blade

Shield captain on bike w/ Salvo Launcher, tip of the spear (reroll 1's in cc on the charge), lockwarden (no invulnerable allowed vs him), superior creation (5+++)

Troops =

Sangittarum - 5 w/ misercordias
Sangittarum - 5 w/ misercordias
Custodian guard - 3 w/ spears
Custodian guard - 3 w/ spears

Fast Attack=

Veritus preators- 3 w/Salvo launchers
Venatari Custodians- 3 men
Venatari Custodians- 3 men

Heavy Support=

Telemon- Arachnus Storm Cannon, Telemon Caestus




I won the game 63 to 45 at end of t4. We called it there because all he had left was old one eye and a malenthrope and I had only lost the venatari, 1 bike, 1 spear squad, and 4 of the 5 men from a saggitarum squad. He was only going to be able to score another 5 pts where I was about to score another 13 at least in the final turn.

Some things I learned while playing, The reduce attacks by 1 is very powerful, reducing the enemys cc output by so much actually helps keep us alive much longer in cc. Also the Telemon isn't the unkillable stomping machine it was in the past. Having said that it still felt like a serious threat and my opponent had to deal with it quickly or else get hurt badly which he did. Also the venetari still have a place in our forces for a cheap deep striking unit.

Having said that the actual gw stuff (not forgeworld) feels very viable now. It felt like I could have ran a full gw only army and gotten great results so I put that as a major win. The bikes were very effective and hard to kill, the bike captain ran through whoever he wanted to thanks to lockwarden, and the captain on foot with sword and shield ended up killing a hive tyrant with little trouble thanks to how many attacks he was getting and 6's to wound giving out a mortal wound. In return he only took 4 wounds so he was fine in the fight.

I really want to try some terms and more bikes, I think next game i won't run any forgeworld and see how that plays out.

Question on the Wardens vs Custodian Guard- while it seems like they are just 5 pts more for not much I am thinking they may actually be worth the upgrade if your going spears on your guard anyways. They get the bodyguard rule (eh...), 6+++ (ok, not worth banking on), and an extra attack (ok, now we are talking). For 5 pts I think that's possibly worth more than putting a misercordia on a guard (and you can always put a misercordia on a Warden if you wanted as well....) if you don't need the troop slots filled.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 02:17:22


Post by: artific3r


After thinking about the rules more and watching some battle reports, I'm starting to think the codex is really strong. Our objective control capabilities combined with the tactical flexibility of Emperor's Chosen makes things pretty over the top.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 02:18:13


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I suppose now is a bad time to re-mention that drones are 2 wounds each now? Meaning a squad of 5 Terminators DSing into the backfield, might kill 5 total drones, for a trade of exactly 300 points to kill maybe 120 points (1 killed in shooting, 5 killed in melee if they make the charge) We don't even reach the Stormsurge waiting behind the drones, which will kill 3 of the terminators in the reply, if the drones don't kill/wound any in the Overwatch. Tau are shaping up to be a nightmare for us. Also, we better pray they revise "Early Warning Protocols" or The Allarus won't even make it to the shooting phase.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 02:29:48


Post by: The Red Hobbit


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 nordsturmking wrote:
Wounding T8 on 3+ or 2+ that the reason.
Seems like a situation that only exists because GW is afraid of giving anything high toughnesses.


Do you remember what Toughness Titans had before GW made them all T<10?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 02:42:31


Post by: H.B.M.C.


They had armour values.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 03:22:47


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I don't see how anything we have can take down Heavy T8 platforms with Invuln saves, like the Stormsurge with tactical drones, or a Plagueburst Crawler. Hell, even T7 HS platforms like Contemptors give us fits now.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 04:11:28


Post by: leerm02


Yeah, from everything I can tell: I don't think killing things is supposed to be our strength.

Objective control, resilience (as much as anything is resilient in 9th), and tricks are our new bag.

Sure we can kill some things (we aren't super nerfed or anything like that) but I think that the Custodes real strength now lies in other aspects of the game.

Is that good? Is that bad? I guess it kind of depends really. As others have said: I can totally see us being able to win on points a LOT of the time.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 04:54:40


Post by: artific3r


leerm02 wrote:
Yeah, from everything I can tell: I don't think killing things is supposed to be our strength.

Objective control, resilience (as much as anything is resilient in 9th), and tricks are our new bag.

Sure we can kill some things (we aren't super nerfed or anything like that) but I think that the Custodes real strength now lies in other aspects of the game.

Is that good? Is that bad? I guess it kind of depends really. As others have said: I can totally see us being able to win on points a LOT of the time.


Pretty much. Good luck pushing guardians off objectives when we can casually turn on a -1A aura on any unit


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 07:04:16


Post by: ZergSmasher


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
 The Red Hobbit wrote:
12 DMG eh? That's the same damage as a Reaver Volcano cannon as I recall. I wonder if they'll be updating Titan profiles as well after they finish Tau.

Since it doesn't ignore Invuls it's still less dangerous to us than the railgun.


Notice the 4 damage 6 shot burst fire. Also, this unit/weapon has a shoot twice strat currently (Please nerf dear god). I don't want to face this thing if it shoots twice. That is a dead squad of bikes per turn. 13.333 wounds on a Telemon, 17 and change to an Ares. (In Focused mode)

Um, I don't know of any stratagem that allows Tau to shoot twice (at least in the 8th edition codex, which I used to play). Or rather, there was one, but it was locked to Vior'la Sept (which no one plays) and Fire Warriors IIRC. Of course maybe there is one now from leaks or something and I haven't heard about it.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:I don't see how anything we have can take down Heavy T8 platforms with Invuln saves, like the Stormsurge with tactical drones, or a Plagueburst Crawler. Hell, even T7 HS platforms like Contemptors give us fits now.

Tactical drones don't give any benefits to the Stormsurge as far as I know unless this has changed in the upcoming codex. The Surge lacks the BATTLESUIT keyword and so can't be protected by drones. They can still get in front and bodyblock enemy chargers, but any army with decent screening units can do similar things obviously.

I do concede that taking down crunchy high-Toughness targets is a struggle bus for Custodes. Bikes with the salvo launchers and our FW toys are probably the best bet for handling that kind of stuff.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 08:27:17


Post by: locarno24


Excrutiatus Flamer: buffed witchseeker flamer with S6 and AP3. Meh.


I gather it also it goes from assault D6 to assault 6. Given that it's basically a 3+-to-kill on anything shy of a space marine, that's not bad for a light infantry character if that's true.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 08:55:57


Post by: Necronmaniac05


Bikes are probably our best bet for killing T8 platforms. S7, +1 to wound on the charge and a further +1 to wound from slayer of nightmares means you can get them wounding T8 on 3s which is decent.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 11:00:14


Post by: Twilight Pathways


Necronmaniac05 wrote:
Bikes are probably our best bet for killing T8 platforms. S7, +1 to wound on the charge and a further +1 to wound from slayer of nightmares means you can get them wounding T8 on 3s which is decent.


No, wound modifiers cap at +1


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 11:10:54


Post by: Tiberias


locarno24 wrote:
Excrutiatus Flamer: buffed witchseeker flamer with S6 and AP3. Meh.


I gather it also it goes from assault D6 to assault 6. Given that it's basically a 3+-to-kill on anything shy of a space marine, that's not bad for a light infantry character if that's true.


You are correct. It is in fact assault 6 and not D6. I am going to amend that it is a decent relic, if you are bringing a sisters character.

Thanks for calling me out on that one.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 11:35:42


Post by: Balerion


Twilight Pathways wrote:
Necronmaniac05 wrote:
Bikes are probably our best bet for killing T8 platforms. S7, +1 to wound on the charge and a further +1 to wound from slayer of nightmares means you can get them wounding T8 on 3s which is decent.


No, wound modifiers cap at +1

Yes. But the way around it is with Rendax Kata that gives you +1S vs vehicles and monsters.
So you can get to wounding on 3+ against T8

With bikes and Caladius, there's plenty of high quality d3+3 in the army I thin to deal with vehicles.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 12:08:12


Post by: WisdomLS


Azuza001 wrote:
So played my first game yesterday with the new codex, played as my Shadowkeepers because they are the shield host I have always run. My opponent played Nidzilla tyranids using all the new rules from the white dwarf and supplement.

Overall was a very interesting game. My list was

Spoiler:


Hq =

Shield captain w/ sword and shield, peerless Warrior warlord trait, veiled blade

Shield captain on bike w/ Salvo Launcher, tip of the spear (reroll 1's in cc on the charge), lockwarden (no invulnerable allowed vs him), superior creation (5+++)

Troops =

Sangittarum - 5 w/ misercordias
Sangittarum - 5 w/ misercordias
Custodian guard - 3 w/ spears
Custodian guard - 3 w/ spears

Fast Attack=

Veritus preators- 3 w/Salvo launchers
Venatari Custodians- 3 men
Venatari Custodians- 3 men

Heavy Support=

Telemon- Arachnus Storm Cannon, Telemon Caestus




I won the game 63 to 45 at end of t4. We called it there because all he had left was old one eye and a malenthrope and I had only lost the venatari, 1 bike, 1 spear squad, and 4 of the 5 men from a saggitarum squad. He was only going to be able to score another 5 pts where I was about to score another 13 at least in the final turn.

Some things I learned while playing, The reduce attacks by 1 is very powerful, reducing the enemys cc output by so much actually helps keep us alive much longer in cc. Also the Telemon isn't the unkillable stomping machine it was in the past. Having said that it still felt like a serious threat and my opponent had to deal with it quickly or else get hurt badly which he did. Also the venetari still have a place in our forces for a cheap deep striking unit.

Having said that the actual gw stuff (not forgeworld) feels very viable now. It felt like I could have ran a full gw only army and gotten great results so I put that as a major win. The bikes were very effective and hard to kill, the bike captain ran through whoever he wanted to thanks to lockwarden, and the captain on foot with sword and shield ended up killing a hive tyrant with little trouble thanks to how many attacks he was getting and 6's to wound giving out a mortal wound. In return he only took 4 wounds so he was fine in the fight.

I really want to try some terms and more bikes, I think next game i won't run any forgeworld and see how that plays out.

Question on the Wardens vs Custodian Guard- while it seems like they are just 5 pts more for not much I am thinking they may actually be worth the upgrade if your going spears on your guard anyways. They get the bodyguard rule (eh...), 6+++ (ok, not worth banking on), and an extra attack (ok, now we are talking). For 5 pts I think that's possibly worth more than putting a misercordia on a guard (and you can always put a misercordia on a Warden if you wanted as well....) if you don't need the troop slots filled.


How did you manage to so effectively kill all his big bugs? -1 Dam and high T plus Invuln makes him pretty immune to most of your attacks other than the salvo launchers?

I've got a mate who is gonna run the crusher into me next week and I can't see a way of killing his stuff so was gonna just try to take it on objectives.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 12:58:13


Post by: stratigo


 WisdomLS wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
So played my first game yesterday with the new codex, played as my Shadowkeepers because they are the shield host I have always run. My opponent played Nidzilla tyranids using all the new rules from the white dwarf and supplement.

Overall was a very interesting game. My list was

Spoiler:


Hq =

Shield captain w/ sword and shield, peerless Warrior warlord trait, veiled blade

Shield captain on bike w/ Salvo Launcher, tip of the spear (reroll 1's in cc on the charge), lockwarden (no invulnerable allowed vs him), superior creation (5+++)

Troops =

Sangittarum - 5 w/ misercordias
Sangittarum - 5 w/ misercordias
Custodian guard - 3 w/ spears
Custodian guard - 3 w/ spears

Fast Attack=

Veritus preators- 3 w/Salvo launchers
Venatari Custodians- 3 men
Venatari Custodians- 3 men

Heavy Support=

Telemon- Arachnus Storm Cannon, Telemon Caestus




I won the game 63 to 45 at end of t4. We called it there because all he had left was old one eye and a malenthrope and I had only lost the venatari, 1 bike, 1 spear squad, and 4 of the 5 men from a saggitarum squad. He was only going to be able to score another 5 pts where I was about to score another 13 at least in the final turn.

Some things I learned while playing, The reduce attacks by 1 is very powerful, reducing the enemys cc output by so much actually helps keep us alive much longer in cc. Also the Telemon isn't the unkillable stomping machine it was in the past. Having said that it still felt like a serious threat and my opponent had to deal with it quickly or else get hurt badly which he did. Also the venetari still have a place in our forces for a cheap deep striking unit.

Having said that the actual gw stuff (not forgeworld) feels very viable now. It felt like I could have ran a full gw only army and gotten great results so I put that as a major win. The bikes were very effective and hard to kill, the bike captain ran through whoever he wanted to thanks to lockwarden, and the captain on foot with sword and shield ended up killing a hive tyrant with little trouble thanks to how many attacks he was getting and 6's to wound giving out a mortal wound. In return he only took 4 wounds so he was fine in the fight.

I really want to try some terms and more bikes, I think next game i won't run any forgeworld and see how that plays out.

Question on the Wardens vs Custodian Guard- while it seems like they are just 5 pts more for not much I am thinking they may actually be worth the upgrade if your going spears on your guard anyways. They get the bodyguard rule (eh...), 6+++ (ok, not worth banking on), and an extra attack (ok, now we are talking). For 5 pts I think that's possibly worth more than putting a misercordia on a guard (and you can always put a misercordia on a Warden if you wanted as well....) if you don't need the troop slots filled.


How did you manage to so effectively kill all his big bugs? -1 Dam and high T plus Invuln makes him pretty immune to most of your attacks other than the salvo launchers?

I've got a mate who is gonna run the crusher into me next week and I can't see a way of killing his stuff so was gonna just try to take it on objectives.


Depends on the bugs. Carnifexes only have 8 wounds


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 13:57:16


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


So the Melta is 1 shot now. This a really substantial nerf, as against any major t8 target (Repulsor) it's got a flat out 1/6 chance of doing ZERO damage. Granted those aren't great odds, but this is our main tank hunter now, on the plastic side.

So for 270 points, we have 3 shots, say 2 hit. Thats roughly 1 unsaved wound, if they have no mitigation, for about 5 damage. Hardly a good dent in a 14+ wound platform. Especially for the cost. IF it makes the charge, it gets another 5-6 wounds.

We need the Melta Missile to be Heavy 2 at least, or it's worthless for it's job. Right now it's barely good at anti-anything. Nah, I say go HBs all day, and let the Terminators deal with the big stuff.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 14:15:00


Post by: Eihnlazer


you should usually have reroll 1's to hit so your hitting with all of them.

This combined with possibly trajaan wound rerolls or Emperors chosen reroll and a CP reroll can get you 2-3 wounds through most of the time.

Only invuns worry our bikes tbh.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 15:27:29


Post by: Mr. Funktastic


The melta missile was always 1 shot and with EC that free reroll makes them way more reliable, especially if something like a bike cap is also giving them reroll 1's to hit. With the d3+3 damage they're actually mathematically straight up better in the majority of circumstance than the old missile (especially vs monsters), even without the wound reroll vs vehicles. I don't think you know what you're talking about.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 15:40:43


Post by: Balerion


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So the Melta is 1 shot now. This a really substantial nerf, as against any major t8 target (Repulsor) it's got a flat out 1/6 chance of doing ZERO damage. Granted those aren't great odds, but this is our main tank hunter now, on the plastic side.

So for 270 points, we have 3 shots, say 2 hit. Thats roughly 1 unsaved wound, if they have no mitigation, for about 5 damage. Hardly a good dent in a 14+ wound platform. Especially for the cost. IF it makes the charge, it gets another 5-6 wounds.

We need the Melta Missile to be Heavy 2 at least, or it's worthless for it's job. Right now it's barely good at anti-anything. Nah, I say go HBs all day, and let the Terminators deal with the big stuff.

So you are saying that bikes with their mobility might not make the charge to mop up that repulsor (if it survives 3-4 (with SC) d3+3 shots hitting on 2+, with rr), but the terminators will?
Those terminators don't have the added bonus of d3+3 shooting, so if you run them into that repulsor, they'll have to make up the dmg done by Salvo with their additional attacks (which in the case of a 5 man unit is 8 more attacks, provided you get them all into the cc, and with worse AP

not to mention if the target has -1dmg

I think I'll go with Salvo bikes into vehicles primarily.




Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 15:47:56


Post by: Tiberias


Balerion wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So the Melta is 1 shot now. This a really substantial nerf, as against any major t8 target (Repulsor) it's got a flat out 1/6 chance of doing ZERO damage. Granted those aren't great odds, but this is our main tank hunter now, on the plastic side.

So for 270 points, we have 3 shots, say 2 hit. Thats roughly 1 unsaved wound, if they have no mitigation, for about 5 damage. Hardly a good dent in a 14+ wound platform. Especially for the cost. IF it makes the charge, it gets another 5-6 wounds.

We need the Melta Missile to be Heavy 2 at least, or it's worthless for it's job. Right now it's barely good at anti-anything. Nah, I say go HBs all day, and let the Terminators deal with the big stuff.

So you are saying that bikes with their mobility might not make the charge to mop up that repulsor (if it survives 3-4 (with SC) d3+3 shots hitting on 2+, with rr), but the terminators will?
Those terminators don't have the added bonus of d3+3 shooting, so if you run them into that repulsor, they'll have to make up the dmg done by Salvo with their additional attacks (which in the case of a 5 man unit is 8 more attacks, provided you get them all into the cc)

I think I'll go with Salvo bikes into vehicles primarily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Balerion wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So the Melta is 1 shot now. This a really substantial nerf, as against any major t8 target (Repulsor) it's got a flat out 1/6 chance of doing ZERO damage. Granted those aren't great odds, but this is our main tank hunter now, on the plastic side.

So for 270 points, we have 3 shots, say 2 hit. Thats roughly 1 unsaved wound, if they have no mitigation, for about 5 damage. Hardly a good dent in a 14+ wound platform. Especially for the cost. IF it makes the charge, it gets another 5-6 wounds.

We need the Melta Missile to be Heavy 2 at least, or it's worthless for it's job. Right now it's barely good at anti-anything. Nah, I say go HBs all day, and let the Terminators deal with the big stuff.

So you are saying that bikes with their mobility might not make the charge to mop up that repulsor (if it survives 3-4 (with SC) d3+3 shots hitting on 2+, with rr), but the terminators will?
Those terminators don't have the added bonus of d3+3 shooting, so if you run them into that repulsor, they'll have to make up the dmg done by Salvo with their additional attacks (which in the case of a 5 man unit is 8 more attacks, provided you get them all into the cc)

not to mention if the target has -1 dmg

I think I'll go with Salvo bikes into vehicles primarily.


I agree. I'd say that terminators are not that great anymore at hunting big stuff. Too much - 1 dmg.
I'd much rather use them as units of one to do actions and being a general nuisance to the enemy.
Our terminators are much less impressive than deathwing or deathshroud terminators. But being able to bring them as units of one is amazing.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 16:01:49


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Aquilons are better tank hunters than anything in our faction, for the cost. They also lost the re-roll wounds on the Salvo, so that's out. They also don't re-roll 1s to hit unless you drop 170ist points on a SC bike, and he's in 6 inches. I'd rather not factor that in, because I'd like to keep my big tasty Railgun targets AWAY from the anti-tank shooting.

So yeah, you get 1 shot per 90 points, that might do 5 damage, if you make the 3+ roll to wound. And they don't have an Invuln. And, they don't have bodyguard units. And you don't get instantly shot off the board by Auspex Scan-like abilities. See where this is going?

We pay a premium for a anti-tank platform that is better suited to taking out light vehicles, ala other bikes, or Rhinos. Both of which are significantly cheaper than the platform we are paying for.

I just don't think bikes are even decent now, and it's silly to me how you guys are defending them.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 16:11:22


Post by: Balerion


Dude, what are you talking about? They are better than before. Salvos were always 1 shot, but now you are not only hitting reliably, but provided you push the hit through, you are also dealing damage reliably.

With hits on 2+, most of the times you are hitting all of them and you can save that free rr on wond roll so you can rr 1 or 2 wounds out of 3. You should be getting through 2 wounds out of 3 shots pretty reliably with a 3 man unit of bikes. That's excluding SC.

What's left after that, you mop up in cc with ap3. You can fall back and shoot/charge, they have the same defense as termies but 1 more wound.

I'll be trying them out tomorrow, will report back my experience. But on paper, the army can get quite a lot of reliable d3+3 shots in the.




Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 17:02:00


Post by: The Red Hobbit


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They had armour values.


I could have swore there was a period in 8th where Titans had 10+ Toughness.

Just doublechecked and Reavers were T10, Warbringer Nemesis Titans were T13 and Warlord Titans were T16.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 17:35:59


Post by: Azuza001




 WisdomLS wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:

So played my first game yesterday with the new codex, played as my Shadowkeepers because they are the shield host I have always run. My opponent played Nidzilla tyranids using all the new rules from the white dwarf and supplement.

Overall was a very interesting game. My list was

Spoiler:


Hq =

Shield captain w/ sword and shield, peerless Warrior warlord trait, veiled blade

Shield captain on bike w/ Salvo Launcher, tip of the spear (reroll 1's in cc on the charge), lockwarden (no invulnerable allowed vs him), superior creation (5+++)

Troops =

Sangittarum - 5 w/ misercordias
Sangittarum - 5 w/ misercordias
Custodian guard - 3 w/ spears
Custodian guard - 3 w/ spears

Fast Attack=

Veritus preators- 3 w/Salvo launchers
Venatari Custodians- 3 men
Venatari Custodians- 3 men

Heavy Support=

Telemon- Arachnus Storm Cannon, Telemon Caestus




I won the game 63 to 45 at end of t4. We called it there because all he had left was old one eye and a malenthrope and I had only lost the venatari, 1 bike, 1 spear squad, and 4 of the 5 men from a saggitarum squad. He was only going to be able to score another 5 pts where I was about to score another 13 at least in the final turn.

Some things I learned while playing, The reduce attacks by 1 is very powerful, reducing the enemys cc output by so much actually helps keep us alive much longer in cc. Also the Telemon isn't the unkillable stomping machine it was in the past. Having said that it still felt like a serious threat and my opponent had to deal with it quickly or else get hurt badly which he did. Also the venetari still have a place in our forces for a cheap deep striking unit.

Having said that the actual gw stuff (not forgeworld) feels very viable now. It felt like I could have ran a full gw only army and gotten great results so I put that as a major win. The bikes were very effective and hard to kill, the bike captain ran through whoever he wanted to thanks to lockwarden, and the captain on foot with sword and shield ended up killing a hive tyrant with little trouble thanks to how many attacks he was getting and 6's to wound giving out a mortal wound. In return he only took 4 wounds so he was fine in the fight.

I really want to try some terms and more bikes, I think next game i won't run any forgeworld and see how that plays out.

Question on the Wardens vs Custodian Guard- while it seems like they are just 5 pts more for not much I am thinking they may actually be worth the upgrade if your going spears on your guard anyways. They get the bodyguard rule (eh...), 6+++ (ok, not worth banking on), and an extra attack (ok, now we are talking). For 5 pts I think that's possibly worth more than putting a misercordia on a guard (and you can always put a misercordia on a Warden if you wanted as well....) if you don't need the troop slots filled.





How did you manage to so effectively kill all his big bugs? -1 Dam and high T plus Invuln makes him pretty immune to most of your attacks other than the salvo launchers?

I've got a mate who is gonna run the crusher into me next week and I can't see a way of killing his stuff so was gonna just try to take it on objectives.


Gonna put the battle report in a spoiler so it's not taking up a ton of space.

Spoiler:

I started in rendax karate form with 6's to hit auto wounding to put out as much firepower against him as I could. This allowed most of my army to drop his Dimacharhon to 2 wounds t1 between all the chip damage from 10 saggitarum, 3 guard spears, and 4 Salvo Launchers from the bikes and telemon. Followed that up by him not getting into combat with me t1 (I stayed as far away as I could while still being able to shoot) and his guns doing jack all to me between transhuman and -1 strength strats, though he did drop the telemon to 8w with a tyranofex that had +1bs from tyranid warriors.

T2 I switched to Kaptrais and activated no melee rerolls, took out his dinacharhon with telemon and sagittarum, then killed 1 carnifexe while bringing another down to 3w with the bikes. His t2 he killed the telemon between the hive tyrants shooting and the tyranofex, he smited with a squad of 5 zonathropes and did 2 wounds to the forward saggitarum, and he carnifexes didn't do any dmg. He charged in and got into combat with 3 shield guard with one of his carnifexes and his hive tyrant charged the wounded saggitarum but thanks to -1 attack and no rerolls to hit he killed 1 shield guard and 3 saggitarum. Saggitarum did 4 wounds back (nice chr you got there.... shadowkeepers!) And guard did 1 to the carnifex.

T3 I activated both forms of Kaptrais, 3 bikes killed 1 carnifex in shooting, shield captain moved up into charge range of hive tyrant, shield captain ok bike with lockwarden got into charge position on the zonathropes, dropped both squads of venatari into his back line to threaten his warriors / malenthrope / Ole one eye, and kept the pressure on. Tyranofex got dropped to 6w, warriors dropped to 1w left from the venatari shooting, and 3 bikes killed another carnifex with their Salvo launchers. Bikes tried to make a long charge onto tyranofex and failed, venatari tried and failed, but both captains made it in. Captain on foot ended up doing 5 wounds to the hive tyrant thanks to 8 attacks with 6's to wound being mortals and rerolls (he is very good, I get why people like the sword wizard as he is known as on TTT but this guy wasn't a joke) and the captain on bike killed 4 of the 5 zonathropes. His fight back he did 4w to the captain on foot and killed another guard with his carnifex.

His t3 he moved old one eye and malenthrope up to deal with venatari, tyranofex fired and did nothing to the bikes, but the Warrior did do some dmg to one of the venatari squads. Onto combat, old one eye/malenthrope charged in and killed 1 squad of venatari while also killing 1 guy from the 2nd squad (he rolled well and I did not). Carnifex swung and missed, but guard got 2w through, shield captain on foot swung and dropped the hive tyrant to 1w. Hive swung and didn't do anything due to no hit rerolls and being bracketed. Sagittarum finished the hive tyrant off. Bike captain finished the zonathrope off.

My t4 it's pretty much over. I switch to 1 additonal attacks, but 1dmg only form. Bikes move up and wiff at shooting tyranofex but can now charge him freely. Bike captain moves up and gets ready to charge old one eye. Captain on foot moves up to charge a lone neronthrope that was doing warp ritual in the middle of the table. Go to charges, get in with captains and bikes, bikes drop tyranofex down to 3w, captain drops nerothrope to 2w (9 attacks now, yeah!, give me dem 6's!), and bike captain does 4w to old one eye. Old one eye swings and killes remaining 2 venatari. Carnifex swings and finally kills that last guard with a spear.

His t4 was quick, he kept the carnifex on the objective it had finally won from my custodies, psycic he tried to smite but only did 1w with the neronthope, and tyranodex didn't do anything to bikes. Combat neronthope dies, old one eye does 2w to my bike captain, I do 3w back to old one eye, tyranofex does nothing, dies to bikes.

Called it there. I was about to have 5 of the 6 objectives on the table with him not able to do anything about what was left.



Long and short of it, we are durable. Against an army that wants to be charging and killin in cc shadowkeepers are very good. Reducing the number of attacks an opponent has really can make a difference from a pure numbers game. Dropping 5 attacks to 4 is already an increase in 20% durability just since that's 1 attack you don't have to worry about, and carnifexes are really only good on the charge in cc. Once there hitting on 4's with 4 attacks and not able to reroll hits..... thats 2 hits, 1 w with transhuman, and 50% chance of doing nothing with our 4++. Lockwarden bike captain was absolutely amazing. If I hadn't had that those zonathropes would have been a huge pain.

Basically it seemed like I was just taking away /reducing his rules.

No rerolls to hit me in cc.
No charges due to Tanglefoot Grenade (I did use that once to stop a carnifex charge t1).
No invulnerable saves allowed from bike captain.
You can't swing as much as you should.
Nope, you wound on 4's.

After that it was just holding out where I needed to and keeping the pressure on where I could.

I liked the telemon (1st game with him) but I wonder if 3 more bikes with Salvo launchers wouldn't be a better choice?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 17:38:24


Post by: The Red Hobbit


A friend of mine really enjoys running brainbugs, I'm looking forward to fielding a Lockwarden biker captain next time we play.

Great battle report!


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 19:25:37


Post by: locarno24


Tiberias wrote:
locarno24 wrote:
Excrutiatus Flamer: buffed witchseeker flamer with S6 and AP3. Meh.


I gather it also it goes from assault D6 to assault 6. Given that it's basically a 3+-to-kill on anything shy of a space marine, that's not bad for a light infantry character if that's true.


You are correct. It is in fact assault 6 and not D6. I am going to amend that it is a decent relic, if you are bringing a sisters character.



It's fair enough: I think I mentally dismissed it as a typo the first time, but then improved S, AP and rate of fire isn't unreasonable for a ranged relic, especially since it doesn't have improved damage.

Given how useful she can be, both for prosaic "crap I need another HQ choice" as well as psyker screening and the awesome tactical usefulness of baleful judge.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 19:35:28


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I'm very confused. What sort of list did your opponent play? Your list seems very well setup to directly counter your opponent. Was that intended? Also, did your opponent throw any heavy T8 platforms at you? And psykers? How did you mitigate those? Finally, it seems an odd pairing, throwing a brand new codex against what is currently one of the weaker non-9thcodex factions in the game. I hope we do as well against DE, or TS.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 20:07:30


Post by: leerm02


Well, it is my understanding that right now this new form of "Nid-zilla" has been quite popular in the meta, and for that alone, I think the battle-report is well warranted.

Also: it is a well done report, so there is that :-)


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 20:32:51


Post by: Azuza001


No it wasn't intended. I told him I was going to bring the new codex and thats what he decided to bring against it.

His list, from my memory so I apologize if I get something wrong

Spoiler:


Hq-

Hive tyrant with miasma cannon and talons
Nerothrope
Malenthrope
Old one eye

Troops -
3 tyranid warriors

Elites-

5 zonathropes.

Faxt attack -

Dimacharhon

Heavy Support

Tyranofex with rupture cannon
1 carnifex with husks and double sything talons
2 carnifexes with enhanced senes, spore systs stranglehorn cannon, sything talons
1 carnifex with enhanced senses, spore syths, venom cannon, sything talons



I got first turn which I think helped as I was able to stop the Dimacharhon by dropping it to its bottom bracket t1 before it got to move. Even after he got a heal, nid heals at end of movement so that didn't help much. He only had 1 t8 platform, the tyranofex, but beyond forgeworld not a lot of nid forces have t8 in the codex.

The 5++ rarely came up in his favor, he didn't make many of them. However that reduce dmg by 1 was so huge, if that wasn't a thing this would have been over t2. That says something for nids I think.

As for the psycic, there wasn't anything I could do so I just ignored it as best as possible. I took abhor the witch so I was gunning for them anyways to stop them from being effective.

I have ran shadowkeepers for my custodes before they had rules (love their paint scheme) and I don't see myself switching this edition even though the Emporers Choosen look very interesting to me and TTT are all about Solar Watch. That bike captain lockwarden is just way too useful, in almost all match ups him with the stasis relic, lockwarden, tip of the spear, and superior creation makes one hell of a strong "I am going to kill whoever steps up" guy with the rerolling wounds vs chrs.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 21:48:49


Post by: Balerion


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Finally, it seems an odd pairing, throwing a brand new codex against what is currently one of the weaker non-9thcodex factions in the game. I hope we do as well against DE, or TS.

I'm not a competitive player, but tyranids seems to be crushing it currently, thanks to their new rules.
https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-back-to-work-back-to-war/

Also, isn't -1dmg our current boogeyman? This type of tyranid list seems to have it in spades, so that's a good test for custodes I think.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 23:41:00


Post by: Eihnlazer


Azuza001 wrote:
No it wasn't intended. I told him I was going to bring the new codex and thats what he decided to bring against it.

His list, from my memory so I apologize if I get something wrong

Spoiler:


Hq-

Hive tyrant with miasma cannon and talons
Nerothrope
Malenthrope
Old one eye

Troops -
3 tyranid warriors

Elites-

5 zonathropes.

Faxt attack -

Dimacharhon

Heavy Support

Tyranofex with rupture cannon
1 carnifex with husks and double sything talons
2 carnifexes with enhanced senes, spore systs stranglehorn cannon, sything talons
1 carnifex with enhanced senses, spore syths, venom cannon, sything talons



I got first turn which I think helped as I was able to stop the Dimacharhon by dropping it to its bottom bracket t1 before it got to move. Even after he got a heal, nid heals at end of movement so that didn't help much. He only had 1 t8 platform, the tyranofex, but beyond forgeworld not a lot of nid forces have t8 in the codex.

The 5++ rarely came up in his favor, he didn't make many of them. However that reduce dmg by 1 was so huge, if that wasn't a thing this would have been over t2. That says something for nids I think.

As for the psycic, there wasn't anything I could do so I just ignored it as best as possible. I took abhor the witch so I was gunning for them anyways to stop them from being effective.

I have ran shadowkeepers for my custodes before they had rules (love their paint scheme) and I don't see myself switching this edition even though the Emporers Choosen look very interesting to me and TTT are all about Solar Watch. That bike captain lockwarden is just way too useful, in almost all match ups him with the stasis relic, lockwarden, tip of the spear, and superior creation makes one hell of a strong "I am going to kill whoever steps up" guy with the rerolling wounds vs chrs.





Looks like he took a spearhead detachment only he has 2 extra HQ's he cant have (2 max).



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/14 23:42:32


Post by: JNAProductions


Patrol and a Spearhead, maybe?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 00:43:52


Post by: Azuza001


Yeah patrol and spearhead


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 01:18:01


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I had no idea the nids were so dominant of late. Consider my objections on that point rescinded. I'm glad to you had a good match.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 01:41:11


Post by: Azuza001


So back to the question I posed earlier-

Custodian guard vs Custodian Wardens

5pts worth an extra attack, bodyguard rule, and 6+++? I am thinking it is.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 01:51:27


Post by: ihockert


It should be noted that Lockwarden only allows you to ignore the invulnerable saves of Characters. Units with invulnerable saves that aren't characters such as Zoanthropes and bladeguard are unaffected.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 02:38:46


Post by: Azuza001


ihockert wrote:
It should be noted that Lockwarden only allows you to ignore the invulnerable saves of Characters. Units with invulnerable saves that aren't characters such as Zoanthropes and bladeguard are unaffected.


Yikes! Good catch! I didn't catch that. I will let my opponent know right away so he is aware. Good to know!


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 03:04:10


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


ihockert wrote:
It should be noted that Lockwarden only allows you to ignore the invulnerable saves of Characters. Units with invulnerable saves that aren't characters such as Zoanthropes and bladeguard are unaffected.



Is the with shooting as well as melee? If so a Bike Captain with Lockwarden and Stasis Oubliette just became silly. Although I dare say a Terminator Captain with an axe might still be better.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 03:10:25


Post by: stratigo


leerm02 wrote:
Well, it is my understanding that right now this new form of "Nid-zilla" has been quite popular in the meta, and for that alone, I think the battle-report is well warranted.

Also: it is a well done report, so there is that :-)


But it wasn't a good formulation of that meta list.

The crusher list to be 'meta' doesn't use zonethropes. No swarmlord for example. No malenthrope either? It feels like he had a grab bag of big bugs and wanted an excuse to play with them. He didn't even seen to have enough warriors to form a batallion



FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
ihockert wrote:
It should be noted that Lockwarden only allows you to ignore the invulnerable saves of Characters. Units with invulnerable saves that aren't characters such as Zoanthropes and bladeguard are unaffected.



Is the with shooting as well as melee? If so a Bike Captain with Lockwarden and Stasis Oubliette just became silly. Although I dare say a Terminator Captain with an axe might still be better.


It is


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 03:59:43


Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis


Anyone else order the collector's edition codex? Just got a call from my GW store that mine was delayed until next Wednesday -_-


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 09:48:33


Post by: Eihnlazer


nah i cant justify spending an extra 25 for a fancy cover.

If the collectors edition actually came with collectables, like a limited edition character or dice set and mabey some extra fluff stuff, then i'd be interested in it for even 30-40 extra bucks.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 11:40:29


Post by: nordsturmking


 Eihnlazer wrote:
nah i cant justify spending an extra 25 for a fancy cover.

If the collectors edition actually came with collectables, like a limited edition character or dice set and mabey some extra fluff stuff, then i'd be interested in it for even 30-40 extra bucks.

Or a different cover. i don't like the cover, the ugly dread, the axe head looks too big.


How would you rate the Shield hosts?

I would say:
Emperors Chosen
Emissaries
Shadowkeepers
Solar Watch
Dread Host
Aquilan Shield


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 12:21:24


Post by: The Red Hobbit


ihockert wrote:
It should be noted that Lockwarden only allows you to ignore the invulnerable saves of Characters. Units with invulnerable saves that aren't characters such as Zoanthropes and bladeguard are unaffected.

Great catch. It is still effective against Neurothropes at least.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 12:27:23


Post by: Thairne


 nordsturmking wrote:
 Eihnlazer wrote:
nah i cant justify spending an extra 25 for a fancy cover.

If the collectors edition actually came with collectables, like a limited edition character or dice set and mabey some extra fluff stuff, then i'd be interested in it for even 30-40 extra bucks.

Or a different cover. i don't like the cover, the ugly dread, the axe head looks too big.


How would you rate the Shield hosts?

I would say:
Emperors Chosen
Emissaries
Shadowkeepers
Solar Watch
Dread Host
Aquilan Shield



Emperors Chosen - especially against MW heavy armies
Shadowkeepers - switch with Solar watch if going against a shooty army
Solar Watch - switch with Shadowkeepers if going against a fighty army
Emissaries
Dread Host
Aquilan Shield


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 12:52:19


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


You guys are really doing Dread and Aquilan hosts dirty. Dread is still the top pick when running 3 Telemon lists, which is looking more and more attractive with the leaks, and AS is a great pick if you are running heavy character lists, as it makes any solo model unit untargetable within "6 inches of another unit. It's a great way to get your big fighty characters up the board against things like Tau or any other shooting heavy army, Guard or Admech, or even Knights?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 13:03:07


Post by: Thairne


Thing with Dreadhost is that Solar Watch does it better. RR charges is nice, but +1 to advance and charges is more versatile.
The -1AP is situational, but still useful.
Solar Watch is just faster and speed is something that wins you games.
AS does not have a real place... I mean yes, you can do it, but... why? You have to have 2 models nearby to have your character protected.
You give up a LOT of good stuff for something that can be replicated very easily... maybe if you face sniper heavy lists (but historically, snipers suck and Custodes characters are especially not scared of snipers).
Also, if you charge something with Solar Watch or threaten the backline with the speed, they aint gonna have time to shoot down the incoming character and his double counting escort. Heck, just take wardens if you're worried that much and cut down on Guard Troops...


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 13:04:26


Post by: Tiberias


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
You guys are really doing Dread and Aquilan hosts dirty. Dread is still the top pick when running 3 Telemon lists, which is looking more and more attractive with the leaks, and AS is a great pick if you are running heavy character lists, as it makes any solo model unit untargetable within "6 inches of another unit. It's a great way to get your big fighty characters up the board against things like Tau or any other shooting heavy army, Guard or Admech, or even Knights?


How is dread host any good for telemons specifically? Especially if you run three.....you get waaay more mileage out of emperors chosen with the rerolls to hit or wound. Where do you need the extra AP with a telemon? Not only that, but if you truly needed the extra AP in some fringe cases, you can make one of your telemons dread host for a turn with the emperors chosen specific strat.

We also really don't have any issue with character protection now that every model counds as two for look out sir. And if you still for some reasons had issues with it, you could just bring wardens instead and benefit from a better shield host.

I still stand by my initial assessment that out of the 6 shield hosts, Emperor's chosen, Shadowkeepers, Solar Watch and Emissaries are the true contenders for the top spot depending on your list.
Aquilan shield and dread host are still very much playable, but they are not as good as the other 4.

Dedit: Thairne beat me by a minute


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 14:58:06


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Dread host has the best Axe in the faction, and a negative 1 to hit strat, as well as the ability to shut down overwatch. Thats great for helping to survive to the fight. Is it a 4+++? No, but it's not the worst thing in the game. Aquilan Shield has the ability to Halve damage. That's massive when running shields against things like Hammerheads or Dark Reapers/Fire Dragons.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 15:07:55


Post by: Tiberias


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Dread host has the best Axe in the faction, and a negative 1 to hit strat, as well as the ability to shut down overwatch. Thats great for helping to survive to the fight. Is it a 4+++? No, but it's not the worst thing in the game. Aquilan Shield has the ability to Halve damage. That's massive when running shields against things like Hammerheads or Dark Reapers/Fire Dragons.


You said it yourself, it's not as good as the 4+++, it's also not as good as the free wound or hit re-roll you get with emperors chosen, especially when running three Telemons like you mentioned.
The Admonimortis relic is good, but who are you going to give it to? A terminator Captain would be the best pick probably, but if you bring a terminator Captain he'll take the Pretorian Plate relic anyway 9/10 times because it's that good.

The ability to halve damage is the Aquilan Shield warlord trait, so it works on one model and that really doesn't justify the shield host especially considering that we have arguably better warlord traits and waay better shield host fighting styles.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 16:19:51


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Tiberias wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Dread host has the best Axe in the faction, and a negative 1 to hit strat, as well as the ability to shut down overwatch. Thats great for helping to survive to the fight. Is it a 4+++? No, but it's not the worst thing in the game. Aquilan Shield has the ability to Halve damage. That's massive when running shields against things like Hammerheads or Dark Reapers/Fire Dragons.


You said it yourself, it's not as good as the 4+++, it's also not as good as the free wound or hit re-roll you get with emperors chosen, especially when running three Telemons like you mentioned.
The Admonimortis relic is good, but who are you going to give it to? A terminator Captain would be the best pick probably, but if you bring a terminator Captain he'll take the Pretorian Plate relic anyway 9/10 times because it's that good.

The ability to halve damage is the Aquilan Shield warlord trait, so it works on one model and that really doesn't justify the shield host especially considering that we have arguably better warlord traits and waay better shield host fighting styles.


All I'm saying is wait for the meta to shake out. Everyone's hot on the 4++ right now, or the shadow keepers, but guess what, FOTM and Tactics are a fickle thing. No one thought the Orks were a top contender until they won out at a major. A 4+++ is great against MW, but completely irrelevant against a faction that deals mostly non MW damage. I just don't think pure defensive is the way to win in 9th. Especially when the Meta shifts on a daily basis around here depending on leaks.

For instance, what good is a 4+++ for MWs against Eradicators or the new Tau Hotness? Defense isn't everything. And for all we've been given, it can be taken away by special rules, as we've seen, in an instant.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 16:34:56


Post by: Rivener


IMO Dread Host is a top contender. Putting aside the relic, which can and should be put on a standard Shield-Captain, the boost to AP is a gigantic help. It allows you to bring axes over spears, and getting to S8 is a gigantic break point for this army. Suddenly you’re wounding marines on 2’s, ignoring Ramshackle and unbuffed Wrack toughness, wounding T7 on 3’s (buffable to rerollable 2’s), and crucially wounding T8 on 4’s, or 3’s during Rendax (again, buffable to rerollable 2’s). All of that in addition to the fact that the AP applies to our otherwise anemic shooting within 9”.

The WLT gives out a mathematical +1 to hit for melee and shooting, which is obviously huge. The shooting portion may end up being crucial depending on what is qualified as Auric. +1 to hit at range matters quite a lot more if you can double tap with meltas, after all.

Finally the +1 attack stance is one of our only gateways to dealing with hordes AND damage reduction, and Dread Host can do it twice.

All in all I think Dread Host belongs in the top echelon with the other great ones.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 16:56:04


Post by: leerm02


Rivener: Fully agree!

I plan on running my first few games as Dread-host (my Custodes have a custom paint job so I can pretty much just pick my shield-host).

Actually, on that subject: I get the fluff reasons for not including any "custom shield host" stuff, but gameplay wise it's a bit of a let down considering how many other factions have a "custom sub-faction" option.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 21:35:10


Post by: stratigo


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Dread host has the best Axe in the faction, and a negative 1 to hit strat, as well as the ability to shut down overwatch. Thats great for helping to survive to the fight. Is it a 4+++? No, but it's not the worst thing in the game. Aquilan Shield has the ability to Halve damage. That's massive when running shields against things like Hammerheads or Dark Reapers/Fire Dragons.


You said it yourself, it's not as good as the 4+++, it's also not as good as the free wound or hit re-roll you get with emperors chosen, especially when running three Telemons like you mentioned.
The Admonimortis relic is good, but who are you going to give it to? A terminator Captain would be the best pick probably, but if you bring a terminator Captain he'll take the Pretorian Plate relic anyway 9/10 times because it's that good.

The ability to halve damage is the Aquilan Shield warlord trait, so it works on one model and that really doesn't justify the shield host especially considering that we have arguably better warlord traits and waay better shield host fighting styles.


All I'm saying is wait for the meta to shake out. Everyone's hot on the 4++ right now, or the shadow keepers, but guess what, FOTM and Tactics are a fickle thing. No one thought the Orks were a top contender until they won out at a major. A 4+++ is great against MW, but completely irrelevant against a faction that deals mostly non MW damage. I just don't think pure defensive is the way to win in 9th. Especially when the Meta shifts on a daily basis around here depending on leaks.

For instance, what good is a 4+++ for MWs against Eradicators or the new Tau Hotness? Defense isn't everything. And for all we've been given, it can be taken away by special rules, as we've seen, in an instant.


Most people who read the ork codex went "This is nuts" and were more surprised they weren't turning out for months (it's cause GW delayed all their kits and people were waiting for them before dumping their previously meta ork army which had just become bad)


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 22:07:33


Post by: Eihnlazer


Dread host is a 1 dreadnought army. Eternal pentient means one dread is dropping in with an 8" rerollable charge and when he gets in gains extra AP. This screams double fist telemon out of anything in our codex.

The telemon then benefits from the extra AP on his shooting the following turns alot.


If your running multiple dreads, you go solar watch. The 8" charge from deep strike or the extra advance on multiple dreads is the way to go.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 22:14:24


Post by: leerm02


I don't disagree with you, but it is kinda funny that the one called "Dread host" isn't the best for running a dreadnought heavy army :-)

On a more serious note: what do you guys think of an infantry spam list? I was going over my shiny new codex today and I started thinking about how a lot of things really seem to benefit infantry. Considering that durability is one of our strengths, an all (or mostly) infantry list seems like a pretty viable way to go.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 23:05:20


Post by: Thairne


The most important thing though is - while some shield hosts appear to be better for the most of us, everyone has SOME use.
There's no total duds you can never see yourself play, and that in itself is a win.
Now, will I ever play dreadhost? Probably not.
Not convinced of it (yet) especially with Emperor's Chosen basically giving it to you whenever you REALLY need it.
But there are arguments for it to be made although AS still is a swing and miss. Not because the host in itself is bad, but because what it does just isn't needed. But with herohammer being probably THE playstyle...
I can see Aquilan Shield be used if you take a few SoS characters that need protecting.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/15 23:34:02


Post by: Azuza001


Well it all depends on how the meta shakes out after Tau come out. Tau have some serious anti tank, if that forces people to not bring vehicles then in a weird way it solves our biggest weakness with our infantry. If that happens we will definitely be on top.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/16 12:27:02


Post by: stratigo


Azuza001 wrote:
Well it all depends on how the meta shakes out after Tau come out. Tau have some serious anti tank, if that forces people to not bring vehicles then in a weird way it solves our biggest weakness with our infantry. If that happens we will definitely be on top.


most vehicles aren't our biggest weakness. It's -1 damage.

Talos aren't going anywhere from tau shooting. They might get nerfed out of the meta. But grotesques, abberents, the ork on a big squig. Those things mess us up.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/16 14:47:32


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Yeah, we still get wrecked by big things with damage reduction abilities, things that can do a ton of -1 damage, and things that can dish out easy high strength high AP shooting, Ala Guard tanks and basilisks/mortars. I agree with the

"We don't have any duds" view. I just think we hakuna our tatas before we see which is the TOP because we have no idea what the Meta is going to throw at us. If GW turns around and makes Defilers ignore invulns or something stupid, the EC won't be that helpful.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/16 15:23:41


Post by: leerm02



Hey folks, what do you think of my infantry spam list I'm going to (hopefully) try out today:

(Dreadhost)

HQ:
Shield Captain (spear)
Allarus Captain (axe)
Blade Champion

Troops:
x3 Shield Custodes
x3 Shield Custodes
x3 Shield Custodes
x3 Sagittarum w/dagger
x3 Sagittarum w/dagger
x3 Sagittarum w/dagger

Elite:
x2 Contemptor Achillus Dreads w/Adrathic Destructors

Fast attack:
x3 Venatari w/bucklers
x3 Venatari w/bucklers

=
1990pts

Strategy:
Basically cover the board with durable obsec infantry, with the HQ sticking close by for cover. I plan to use deep strikers to tie up the opponent's responses. The Contemptor's should probably stick together and try to go after whatever the big threat on the board is. I still need to work out things like warlord traits / relics etc.

Thoughts?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/16 16:06:50


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


leerm02 wrote:

Hey folks, what do you think of my infantry spam list I'm going to (hopefully) try out today:

(Dreadhost)

HQ:
Shield Captain (spear)
Allarus Captain (axe)
Blade Champion

Troops:
x3 Shield Custodes
x3 Shield Custodes
x3 Shield Custodes
x3 Sagittarum w/dagger
x3 Sagittarum w/dagger
x3 Sagittarum w/dagger

Elite:
x2 Contemptor Achillus Dreads w/Adrathic Destructors

Fast attack:
x3 Venatari w/bucklers
x3 Venatari w/bucklers

=
1990pts

Strategy:
Basically cover the board with durable obsec infantry, with the HQ sticking close by for cover. I plan to use deep strikers to tie up the opponent's responses. The Contemptor's should probably stick together and try to go after whatever the big threat on the board is. I still need to work out things like warlord traits / relics etc.

Thoughts?


I like it! I am hesitant to use Venetari yet, until we know they get "auric", or even Obsec. But until then, go nuts, because you're playing them with pre-rules. I don't know if Shield custodes are worth their cost now with the nerfs, especially as dread host. I'd at least throw in a single spear guy in each squad.

Otherwise looks great!


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/16 17:27:53


Post by: Audustum


Rumor is that both Harpster and Lennon are considering taking Custodes to LVO. I do not understand the pessimism in this thread. Jetbikes are -amazing-. Trajann's basically an auto take. We have 3ish incredible shieldhosts, minimum.

Yeah, it's not the old style where you take 2-3 Telemons, Venatari and Shields. It's actually more flexible now. I fought Death Guard, the king of -1. I didn't come close to tabling him. I -did- outscore him on primary though because we're fast and we can hold deep objectives. We're looking great.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/16 17:35:52


Post by: Tiberias


Really curious about the results from LVO for custodes.

I was able to try out shadowkeepers against black templars and they feel really strong.
Brought a lockwarden bladechampion, every character that guy touches just instantly evaporates....it's great.
I will say though, that the bike captain/lockwarden combo is probably still better because of the sheer mobility it provides. The -1 attack from shadowkeepers really feels oppressive against combat armies.

Edit: also played Trajann. The old man slaps, he's an auto-include for sure.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/16 18:21:55


Post by: Audustum


Tiberias wrote:
Really curious about the results from LVO for custodes.

I was able to try out shadowkeepers against black templars and they feel really strong.
Brought a lockwarden bladechampion, every character that guy touches just instantly evaporates....it's great.
I will say though, that the bike captain/lockwarden combo is probably still better because of the sheer mobility it provides. The -1 attack from shadowkeepers really feels oppressive against combat armies.

Edit: also played Trajann. The old man slaps, he's an auto-include for sure.


One thing to keep in mind for LVO results is they have ruled that FW stuff doesn't get Martial Katahs. I am interested to see it too though.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/16 19:05:15


Post by: Tiberias


Audustum wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
Really curious about the results from LVO for custodes.

I was able to try out shadowkeepers against black templars and they feel really strong.
Brought a lockwarden bladechampion, every character that guy touches just instantly evaporates....it's great.
I will say though, that the bike captain/lockwarden combo is probably still better because of the sheer mobility it provides. The -1 attack from shadowkeepers really feels oppressive against combat armies.

Edit: also played Trajann. The old man slaps, he's an auto-include for sure.


One thing to keep in mind for LVO results is they have ruled that FW stuff doesn't get Martial Katahs. I am interested to see it too though.


Oh, I did not know that. But it won't make that much of a difference right? So your achillus dreadnought can't do Karate for example, that's not an extreme handicap.
Since our shield hosts are that good, it might even be viable to just skip Karate entirely and go for two detatchments of different shield hosts.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/16 19:53:58


Post by: Eihnlazer


The dreads arent gonna get Ka'tah's anyway so I doubt that taking them or not will make a difference. It only matters for FW infantry like venetari and saggitarum.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/16 20:13:32


Post by: Toofast


Tiberias wrote:

Since our shield hosts are that good, it might even be viable to just skip Karate entirely and go for two detatchments of different shield hosts.


I would like to do that just because of how much of a word salad the karate moves are.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/16 20:51:34


Post by: The Red Hobbit


Audustum wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
Really curious about the results from LVO for custodes.

I was able to try out shadowkeepers against black templars and they feel really strong.
Brought a lockwarden bladechampion, every character that guy touches just instantly evaporates....it's great.
I will say though, that the bike captain/lockwarden combo is probably still better because of the sheer mobility it provides. The -1 attack from shadowkeepers really feels oppressive against combat armies.

Edit: also played Trajann. The old man slaps, he's an auto-include for sure.


One thing to keep in mind for LVO results is they have ruled that FW stuff doesn't get Martial Katahs. I am interested to see it too though.


Oof. That's going to be a limiting factor for the folks running Sagittarum and Venatari


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/16 21:50:44


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Toofast wrote:
Tiberias wrote:

Since our shield hosts are that good, it might even be viable to just skip Karate entirely and go for two detatchments of different shield hosts.


I would like to do that just because of how much of a word salad the karate moves are.


Not gonna lie, adding trash complexity for the sake of complexity is never a good sign. It's like they literally redesigned Custodes away from what made them great.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/16 23:40:34


Post by: PandatheWarrior


What are you on, katah are making the codex great. I guess people want an entire dex relying on rolling 3+ at crutch timing and ordering stuff from forgeworld.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/17 01:03:53


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I don't want to have to play jenga while making dice rolls. Some people want more complexity I guess. Many people don't. If it takes more than 5 minutes to explain how to use a basic class feature to a new player, then it's a bad design. If it takes more than fifteen minutes to understand how to use said feature in playing the game, it's even worse design. Custodes have always been: Role dice, punch faces.

No one asked for, "Before game starts pick a bunch of dual purpose, but only single use abilities, that you have to remember throughout the game, because you can't use them twice, or you can, if you pick the right faction sub class, but also, you should write them down, so your opponent doesn't think you are cheating. But don't forget, each sub faction is tied to a specific ability, so make sure you pick the right sub faction. Here's a handy excel spreadsheet to understand this BASIC CONCEPT of your faction.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/17 01:32:26


Post by: Tiberias


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I don't want to have to play jenga while making dice rolls. Some people want more complexity I guess. Many people don't. If it takes more than 5 minutes to explain how to use a basic class feature to a new player, then it's a bad design. If it takes more than fifteen minutes to understand how to use said feature in playing the game, it's even worse design. Custodes have always been: Role dice, punch faces.

No one asked for, "Before game starts pick a bunch of dual purpose, but only single use abilities, that you have to remember throughout the game, because you can't use them twice, or you can, if you pick the right faction sub class, but also, you should write them down, so your opponent doesn't think you are cheating. But don't forget, each sub faction is tied to a specific ability, so make sure you pick the right sub faction. Here's a handy excel spreadsheet to understand this BASIC CONCEPT of your faction.


Honest question: have you ever actually used the Katas in practice? Because they really sound more complicated than they actually are ingame.

And you don't have to use them. Just play two detachments of different shield hosts and voila, your guys no longer know Karate.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/17 03:44:28


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Tiberias wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I don't want to have to play jenga while making dice rolls. Some people want more complexity I guess. Many people don't. If it takes more than 5 minutes to explain how to use a basic class feature to a new player, then it's a bad design. If it takes more than fifteen minutes to understand how to use said feature in playing the game, it's even worse design. Custodes have always been: Role dice, punch faces.

No one asked for, "Before game starts pick a bunch of dual purpose, but only single use abilities, that you have to remember throughout the game, because you can't use them twice, or you can, if you pick the right faction sub class, but also, you should write them down, so your opponent doesn't think you are cheating. But don't forget, each sub faction is tied to a specific ability, so make sure you pick the right sub faction. Here's a handy excel spreadsheet to understand this BASIC CONCEPT of your faction.


Honest question: have you ever actually used the Katas in practice? Because they really sound more complicated than they actually are ingame.

And you don't have to use them. Just play two detachments of different shield hosts and voila, your guys no longer know Karate.


No, I still don't have a codex. I've theory crafted only at this point. And I still dont understand how you can keep this style of play honest? Do you have a whiteboard constantly displaying which parts you've used, and have yet to use, because it seems like upgrading to C+ when you were doing Python before.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/17 04:10:40


Post by: Azuza001


Katas are incredibly simple once you put them in practice. I purchased the cards (though you could make your own index cards that do the same thing) and it's very easy to keep track of and understand.

For example in my game I wrote about

T1. Rendax - 6's to hit autowound. Since I was playing big monsters this made sense to get some use from all the str 4 guns I had.

T2. Went to Kaptris and picked no cc rerolls. My opponent was already in move up and charge range of me so I picked remove rerolls to hit me to try and get as few wounds to me as possible.

T3. Stayed in kaptris and picked both abilities as shadowkeeprs let's me do. This again kept my opponent from rerolling hits vs me. Very good.

T4. Moved to Dacatari and picked +1a for switching to 1d attacks, this was the turn I planned on finishing this game and now was the time to do max damage since all my attacks were at 1d anyways due to damage reduction. This allowed more dmg to move oh thru.

T5. Would have ended in reducing pile ins and consolidation but game was over at this point and it didn't matter.

I would have loved to use the +4" range one and if he hadn't been playing big bugs that would have been my opening katas.

It's not hard. Doctrines for marines and what docrine is their super doctrine is harder than this system. It's wordy because gw is doing their best to try and stop people from figuring out a secret "broken" interpretation of the rules that on the 5th Sunday of every month allows custodes to get a 2++ save..... you know what I mean. Word lawyers who fight interpretation to get what they want make the game difficult.... i had one the other day that told me that "an extra attack to a dakka weapon when shooting could mean it gets to fire twice...."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Katas are incredibly simple once you put them in practice. I purchased the cards (though you could make your own index cards that do the same thing) and it's very easy to keep track of and understand.

For example in my game I wrote about

T1. Rendax - 6's to hit autowound. Since I was playing big monsters this made sense to get some use from all the str 4 guns I had.

T2. Went to Kaptris and picked no cc rerolls. My opponent was already in move up and charge range of me so I picked remove rerolls to hit me to try and get as few wounds to me as possible.

T3. Stayed in kaptris and picked both abilities as shadowkeeprs let's me do. This again kept my opponent from rerolling hits vs me. Very good.

T4. Moved to Dacatari and picked +1a for switching to 1d attacks, this was the turn I planned on finishing this game and now was the time to do max damage since all my attacks were at 1d anyways due to damage reduction. This allowed more dmg to move oh thru.

T5. Would have ended in reducing pile ins and consolidation but game was over at this point and it didn't matter.

I would have loved to use the +4" range one and if he hadn't been playing big bugs that would have been my opening katas.

It's not hard. Doctrines for marines and what docrine is their super doctrine is harder than this system. It's wordy because gw is doing their best to try and stop people from figuring out a secret "broken" interpretation of the rules that on the 5th Sunday of every month allows custodes to get a 2++ save..... you know what I mean. Word lawyers who fight interpretation to get what they want make the game difficult.... i had one the other day that told me that "an extra attack to a dakka weapon when shooting could mean it gets to fire twice...."


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/17 05:55:39


Post by: stratigo


PandatheWarrior wrote:
What are you on, katah are making the codex great. I guess people want an entire dex relying on rolling 3+ at crutch timing and ordering stuff from forgeworld.


forgeworld isn't going no where.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/17 14:43:31


Post by: Tiberias


What do you guys think about this Emperor's Chosen list?

Spoiler:

2000p Emperors Chosen (BBCode)

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [107 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Detachment Type / Shield Host: Adeptus Custodes, Emperor's Chosen

+ HQ +

Blade Champion [7 PL, -2CP, 110pts]: (Emperor's Chosen): Auric Exemplar, 6. Peerless Warrior, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Stratagem: Victor of the Blood Games

Shield-Captain in Allarus Terminator Armor [8 PL, -1CP, 135pts]: 3. Superior Creation, Castellan Axe, Praetorian Plate, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Unstoppable Destroyer

Trajann Valoris [9 PL, 1CP, 170pts]

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 140pts]
. 2x Custodian w/ Guardian Spear: 2x Guardian Spear
. Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: Praesidium Shield

Prosecutors [3 PL, 60pts]: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun

Prosecutors [3 PL, 60pts]: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Sagittarum: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver

+ Elites +

Allarus Custodians [3 PL, 65pts]
. Allarus w/ Castellan Axe

Allarus Custodians [3 PL, 65pts]
. Allarus w/ Castellan Axe

Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought [9 PL, -1CP, 170pts]: Stratagem: Eternal Penitent

Vexilus Praetor [6 PL, 105pts]: Guardian Spear, Vexilla Imperius

+ Fast Attack +

Venatari Custodians [16 PL, 220pts]
. Venatari Custodian
. . Kinetic Destroyer and Tarsus Buckler
. Venatari Custodian
. . Kinetic Destroyer and Tarsus Buckler
. Venatari Custodian
. . Kinetic Destroyer and Tarsus Buckler
. Venatari Custodian
. . Kinetic Destroyer and Tarsus Buckler

Vertus Praetors [12 PL, 270pts]
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Salvo Launcher

+ Heavy Support +

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought [14 PL, 280pts]
. Telemon Caestus
. Telemon Caestus

++ Total: [107 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I'm beginning to enjoy having two units of prosecutors as objective holders and to do actions.

The two lone allarus terminators are quite flexible, since it's easier to deepstrike them somewhere you want them due to the smaller footprint. If they manage to teleport into the enemy backfield, they can also combo very well with the praetorian plate captain.
I still think one Telemon is a great thing to have as an immovable object that contests the midfield.

Imo this blade champion build is probably the most flexible. You can chuck him towards blobs of skitarii, necrons, wyches or whatever horde unit you come across and he'll slice his way through most of them with his 20-24 attacks that do extra mortal wounds. And he's still good against characters...obviously not as good as the shadowkeepers build, but still.

One major weakness might be the anti tank shooting. 3 bikes might not be enough in that department.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/17 14:47:14


Post by: artific3r


Emperor's Chosen made it to the finals at Fabricator's Forge GT yesterday, just barely losing to Twisted Helix GSC on the last turn. The guy ran 2 bike captains, 8 bikes, 3 pallas, and 3 caladius.

https://pastebin.com/F46KFtFp



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/17 15:28:04


Post by: stratigo


Oh boy I hope the meta isn't back to oops all calladius


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/17 15:34:57


Post by: artific3r


Ka'tahs don't even work on most of that list. I'm guessing he wanted to take something simpler and familiar to play for a first GT outing.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/17 15:36:26


Post by: Audustum


The Pallas are doing work in there too. It's a leafblower list. I'd classify those as a kind of skew list. If you don't run into anyone prepared for it you're fine, but if you do find an opponent prepared for it; you're wrecked.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/17 15:58:40


Post by: stratigo


artific3r wrote:
Ka'tahs don't even work on most of that list. I'm guessing he wanted to take something simpler and familiar to play for a first GT outing.


Ka'tahs aren't important.

They are a tiny boost to the army, but otherwise mostly ignorable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Audustum wrote:
The Pallas are doing work in there too. It's a leafblower list. I'd classify those as a kind of skew list. If you don't run into anyone prepared for it you're fine, but if you do find an opponent prepared for it; you're wrecked.


This has always depended on the strength of the leaf blower


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/17 17:19:01


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I'm actually excited by the rumored leaks for our CA/ Day 1 DLC. Trajaan is going down in points cost, as are bikes, and dreads.



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/17 17:26:04


Post by: artific3r


stratigo wrote:
artific3r wrote:
Ka'tahs don't even work on most of that list. I'm guessing he wanted to take something simpler and familiar to play for a first GT outing.


Ka'tahs aren't important.

They are a tiny boost to the army, but otherwise mostly ignorable.



You're joking, right? The ability to spend 1 CP to give any infantry unit one of 12 stances isn't important?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/17 18:19:35


Post by: Tiberias


artific3r wrote:
stratigo wrote:
artific3r wrote:
Ka'tahs don't even work on most of that list. I'm guessing he wanted to take something simpler and familiar to play for a first GT outing.


Ka'tahs aren't important.

They are a tiny boost to the army, but otherwise mostly ignorable.




You're joking, right? The ability to spend 1 CP to give any infantry unit one of 12 stances isn't important?


I don't think the point was to say that the stratagem to put one unit into another Ka'tah Stance is bad. But rather that the Ka'tah themselves are not that important for the army to function successfully.

I'm not sure where I stand on this, because the Ka'tah can be situationally very powerful. For example it can be downright game winning if you manage to prevent a crucial unit from falling back with the Kaptaris stance....but this won't ever happen consistently.
But the main deciding factors that make the army function are the shield hosts and stratagems.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/17 18:19:41


Post by: Balerion


Yeah, the thing with katas is that, true, you don't need them. You can make lists without katas and be perfectly fine.
But saying you can just ignore them because they are tiny boosts, is not exactly correct.

Some of them can be really great and the ability to use any stance on a unit for 1cp can be very good. Like doing actions after advance or Advance and shoot. I was able to deploy teleport Homer turn 1 with a bike cap in opponents dz thanks to the katas. He survived and scored me 4 points. Advance and shoot with Salvo bikes for t1 alpha strike was also pretty handy.
+1A/1dmg can be very useful against dg.

The usefulness of the katas depend on your list and game plan. Which is great. They give you more options.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/17 19:54:03


Post by: artific3r


I suspect the ka'tahs are what's going to separate an average Custodes player from a great one. All the depth of the codex is locked up in the ka'tahs and the Emp's Chosen strat.

Using just the datasheets, basic strats, and non-Emperor's Chosen shield hosts will probably be a sort of baseline way to play the army. But I really think the real test of skill (and perhaps the real power of the book, who knows) is going to be in learning how to get mileage out of 1) your stance order, 2) Esteemed Amalgam, and 3) Martial Discretion.

Your stance order is obviously super important because if you get it right, you won't have to burn as much CP on Martial Discretion to get the effect you want on the unit you want, which would then free up Esteemed Amalgam for use on something else, or simply save you 1 CP for any of the other myriad, highly useful 1 CP strats.

Esteemed Amalgam can essentially be thought of as 5 strats in 1. Martial Discretion is 12 strats in 1. Not sure I'd describe a set of 17 strats that work on your whole army (excluding vehicles) as ignorable.





Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/17 22:13:45


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


artific3r wrote:
I suspect the ka'tahs are what's going to separate an average Custodes player from a great one. All the depth of the codex is locked up in the ka'tahs and the Emp's Chosen strat.

Using just the datasheets, basic strats, and non-Emperor's Chosen shield hosts will probably be a sort of baseline way to play the army. But I really think the real test of skill (and perhaps the real power of the book, who knows) is going to be in learning how to get mileage out of 1) your stance order, 2) Esteemed Amalgam, and 3) Martial Discretion.

Your stance order is obviously super important because if you get it right, you won't have to burn as much CP on Martial Discretion to get the effect you want on the unit you want, which would then free up Esteemed Amalgam for use on something else, or simply save you 1 CP for any of the other myriad, highly useful 1 CP strats.

Esteemed Amalgam can essentially be thought of as 5 strats in 1. Martial Discretion is 12 strats in 1. Not sure I'd describe a set of 17 strats that work on your whole army (excluding vehicles) as ignorable.





If the new CA shows tanks and telemons getting a points drop/rules buff, (Neither currently get Katas) then you can kiss all this complexity goodbye, because it's still gonna be Bike Captains and Robots with Tanks, all day.

Keep in mind they are also shifting all the ways you score secondaries. Anything over 10 wounds now counts as a vehicle for scored points according to the leaks. That means Trajaan with his +2 wounds. Also, they've hinted at re-designing the way missions are played in majors. Custodes don't have a tier list until at least 2 months after the CA/last FAQ/Update. Because what's the point in assigning something as "The best way to play" when we don't even know what they plan to FAQ/CA to death yet.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/17 22:31:01


Post by: leerm02


Actually, that makes a nice opening:

Any idea when the FAQ or forge-world updates are supposed to come?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 01:05:26


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


The leaks have been coming non-stop since the custodes drop, so I feel soon, but no idea.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 05:26:43


Post by: stratigo


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
artific3r wrote:
I suspect the ka'tahs are what's going to separate an average Custodes player from a great one. All the depth of the codex is locked up in the ka'tahs and the Emp's Chosen strat.

Using just the datasheets, basic strats, and non-Emperor's Chosen shield hosts will probably be a sort of baseline way to play the army. But I really think the real test of skill (and perhaps the real power of the book, who knows) is going to be in learning how to get mileage out of 1) your stance order, 2) Esteemed Amalgam, and 3) Martial Discretion.

Your stance order is obviously super important because if you get it right, you won't have to burn as much CP on Martial Discretion to get the effect you want on the unit you want, which would then free up Esteemed Amalgam for use on something else, or simply save you 1 CP for any of the other myriad, highly useful 1 CP strats.

Esteemed Amalgam can essentially be thought of as 5 strats in 1. Martial Discretion is 12 strats in 1. Not sure I'd describe a set of 17 strats that work on your whole army (excluding vehicles) as ignorable.





If the new CA shows tanks and telemons getting a points drop/rules buff, (Neither currently get Katas) then you can kiss all this complexity goodbye, because it's still gonna be Bike Captains and Robots with Tanks, all day.

Keep in mind they are also shifting all the ways you score secondaries. Anything over 10 wounds now counts as a vehicle for scored points according to the leaks. That means Trajaan with his +2 wounds. Also, they've hinted at re-designing the way missions are played in majors. Custodes don't have a tier list until at least 2 months after the CA/last FAQ/Update. Because what's the point in assigning something as "The best way to play" when we don't even know what they plan to FAQ/CA to death yet.


So it is extremely unlikely that dreads or tanks get ka'tahs because the current dread doesn't, it would indeed be weird if they did.

But again, neither need Ka'tahs, they are powerful without them.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 05:29:13


Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis


Are we expecting any changes to the Telemon's weapon profiles or just a points adjustment?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 07:47:25


Post by: Formosa


got a game against custodes with my deathwing tomorrow, any tips ?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 08:00:12


Post by: Eihnlazer


kill the bikes fast as you can. Dont know your opponents list but that advice will always help.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 12:43:31


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Are we expecting any changes to the Telemon's weapon profiles or just a points adjustment?


So far I've just heard points drops. And CA rarely if ever changes rules, just points. Then again, in this CA they are radically altering missions, objectives, and how secondaries work, so who knows? This wouldn't be the first time GW has violated precedent. My biggest hope for a profile change would have been in the form of a day 1 FAQ for specific units. That obviously didn't happen, so now all we have to hope for is a MFM sometime in the next few months? Unless there is another way GW has updated specific FW units before? White dwarf maybe?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 13:15:21


Post by: Salt donkey


Some thoughts after playing some games with new codex and seeing that the leaks are indeed correct. Heads up I am playing custodes through a “take an hold” style of list. If you are planning on bringing a more leaf blower style list like that GT one above this is less relevant to you.

1) Conservai (advance and do actions) is the best kha’tah stance IMO. This is pretty much for 1 reason. With it you can setup a midpoint objective banners on the first turn that you otherwise couldn’t reach. This has the downside of your opponent potentially contesting some objectives if he gets the first turn, but that also could
draw him too far out/cause him mis- position his units. Additionally, this does require you to roll high enough on your advance roll to make it to the objective, but we can help this by being solar watch/becoming solar watch. Anything that can get you extra points is cash money IMO.

2) CP usage will be divided between “defensive stratagems” “tanglefoot “ “heroic intervention, “emperors chosen strat,” and “other stuff” You’ll need a darn good reason to use “other stuff.” Once again our CP is very important.

3) Points adjustments make non single Allarus terminators more interesting, as they’re no longer completely outclassed by wardens, Also, everyone getting knives for free is a bigger buff than it may look on the surface. A free extra attack on everyone adds up fast, and is a real buff to our offensive capabilities. Think the book looks significantly stronger after this update.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 13:17:44


Post by: Spado


I found this leak about custodes points:

Codex Changes
Blade Champion +10
Bike Captain -10
Foot Captain -5
Allarus Captain -10
Trajann -10
Valerian -10
Allarus Terminators -5 per model
Vertus Bikes -5 per model
Land Raider -20

FW changes
Aquilon Terminators -5 per model
Telemon -20
Coronus Grav-carrier -30
Orion & Ares -50


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 13:22:17


Post by: nordsturmking


Misericordia are free(see designer note)

pics of points leak:
Spoiler:



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 13:55:29


Post by: Audustum


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Are we expecting any changes to the Telemon's weapon profiles or just a points adjustment?


So far I've just heard points drops. And CA rarely if ever changes rules, just points. Then again, in this CA they are radically altering missions, objectives, and how secondaries work, so who knows? This wouldn't be the first time GW has violated precedent. My biggest hope for a profile change would have been in the form of a day 1 FAQ for specific units. That obviously didn't happen, so now all we have to hope for is a MFM sometime in the next few months? Unless there is another way GW has updated specific FW units before? White dwarf maybe?


Just a note, MFM is going up for pre-order on the 22nd of this month. It's very soon.

Sadly, I don't think there's any profile updates incoming. Likely, within 2-3 weeks we get a FAQ that adds Katah to some FW stuff. Probably minimal from there. Just my guess though.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 15:07:51


Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis


IMO Ven. Land Raiders needed to drop at least 40 pts to start being viable. Everything else looks great though.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 15:26:59


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Are telemons still worth going dual Storm Cannons? It feels like they are super powerful at 220ish points but at 250, ehh. Also, with the -10 in bike cost, that effectively makes HB bikes more cost effective than terminators for hunting down characters. Meltas are now basically a free upgrade. If Miseracordias are free now, bikes are the ultimate horde defense now. No one wants to mess with 240pt squads that can wipe hordes off the map in a single turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
speaking of leaks, Tau have a commander plasma rifle option that is Assault 2, ap5 3 flat damage, ignores invulns. YIPPEE. It can go on any of their battlesuit commanders.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 17:41:23


Post by: stratigo


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Are telemons still worth going dual Storm Cannons? It feels like they are super powerful at 220ish points but at 250, ehh. Also, with the -10 in bike cost, that effectively makes HB bikes more cost effective than terminators for hunting down characters. Meltas are now basically a free upgrade. If Miseracordias are free now, bikes are the ultimate horde defense now. No one wants to mess with 240pt squads that can wipe hordes off the map in a single turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
speaking of leaks, Tau have a commander plasma rifle option that is Assault 2, ap5 3 flat damage, ignores invulns. YIPPEE. It can go on any of their battlesuit commanders.


They haven't been worth the dual cannons in like a year.

The best build is cannon fist.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the rate of ignore invul that is coming out tells me this is GW's new "thing" and, well, we're pretty fethed. The army lives and dies off of invuls.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 18:05:06


Post by: Tiberias


stratigo wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Are telemons still worth going dual Storm Cannons? It feels like they are super powerful at 220ish points but at 250, ehh. Also, with the -10 in bike cost, that effectively makes HB bikes more cost effective than terminators for hunting down characters. Meltas are now basically a free upgrade. If Miseracordias are free now, bikes are the ultimate horde defense now. No one wants to mess with 240pt squads that can wipe hordes off the map in a single turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
speaking of leaks, Tau have a commander plasma rifle option that is Assault 2, ap5 3 flat damage, ignores invulns. YIPPEE. It can go on any of their battlesuit commanders.


They haven't been worth the dual cannons in like a year.

The best build is cannon fist.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the rate of ignore invul that is coming out tells me this is GW's new "thing" and, well, we're pretty fethed. The army lives and dies off of invuls.


The new Tau Bork'an specific stratagem previewed on warcom is probably one of the strongest strats in the entire game: "2CP pick a friendly unit and one weapon of that unit, ignore invulns with that weapon." Geez, thats powerful....not only because it can ignore invulns, but for the sheer flexibility since it works on any weapon you need it to.

Edit: and according to Auspex tactics Tau commanders or Ghostkeel can get a prototype plasma rifle with Ap5, dmg3 that just straight also ignores invulns. So at least 3 options in the Tau codex to just ignore invulns. I know we need the full codex to assess how strong Tau are, but is anyone else worried as a Custodes player?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 18:18:24


Post by: leerm02


Wow, that strat is basically: "pick a custodes unit to kill this phase". I bet the tau players are loving this! (our faction, not so much...)


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 18:58:57


Post by: Mr. Funktastic


artific3r wrote:
I suspect the ka'tahs are what's going to separate an average Custodes player from a great one. All the depth of the codex is locked up in the ka'tahs and the Emp's Chosen strat.

Using just the datasheets, basic strats, and non-Emperor's Chosen shield hosts will probably be a sort of baseline way to play the army. But I really think the real test of skill (and perhaps the real power of the book, who knows) is going to be in learning how to get mileage out of 1) your stance order, 2) Esteemed Amalgam, and 3) Martial Discretion.

Your stance order is obviously super important because if you get it right, you won't have to burn as much CP on Martial Discretion to get the effect you want on the unit you want, which would then free up Esteemed Amalgam for use on something else, or simply save you 1 CP for any of the other myriad, highly useful 1 CP strats.

Esteemed Amalgam can essentially be thought of as 5 strats in 1. Martial Discretion is 12 strats in 1. Not sure I'd describe a set of 17 strats that work on your whole army (excluding vehicles) as ignorable.



I agree with this take completely. I suspect the people that are down on katahs either haven't played with them enough or aren't even bothering to give them a fair shake in the first place. Katahs are potent and impactful if you use them correctly and depending on the match ups. Rendax makes our anti vehicle capability so much better across our whole army since the auto wounding on 6's applies to both shooting and melee and the +1S can basically be translated to +1 to wound in a lot of circumstances. Calistus increases our early/late game mobility significantly. Conservai makes action secondaries like Deploy Teleport Homer much more viable for us now. Dacatarai/Kaptaris can seriously neuter melee armies if used properly. And if things like Venatari Lances and Pyrithite Spears from FW get auric, you'll be seeing more people use Salvus too. All of those things spread across more or less army wide really adds up. You can seriously do some pretty nutty things with katahs that you wouldn't be able to if you know how to use them. Sleep on them at your own peril.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 19:55:47


Post by: Audustum


leerm02 wrote:
Wow, that strat is basically: "pick a custodes unit to kill this phase". I bet the tau players are loving this! (our faction, not so much...)


It's subfaction locked. We'll have to see if that's the subfaction people like.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 20:00:01


Post by: gigasnail


Late to the party, subbing to thread.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 20:09:53


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


So this is what I was afraid of. People are so happy over the shiney new toy (Katas) that they are not seeing the emergent trend, i.e. GW is sick of Invulns, and wants them to not be a thing anymore.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 20:15:36


Post by: JNAProductions


Audustum wrote:
leerm02 wrote:
Wow, that strat is basically: "pick a custodes unit to kill this phase". I bet the tau players are loving this! (our faction, not so much...)


It's subfaction locked. We'll have to see if that's the subfaction people like.
It's also one weapon on one model.

Hell, a Fusion Gun (assuming Melta stats) hitting on a 3+ still has a more than 60% chance of failing to kill a single Custodian Guard with no shield. And that's in Melta range!


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 20:18:27


Post by: Audustum


 JNAProductions wrote:
Audustum wrote:
leerm02 wrote:
Wow, that strat is basically: "pick a custodes unit to kill this phase". I bet the tau players are loving this! (our faction, not so much...)


It's subfaction locked. We'll have to see if that's the subfaction people like.
It's also one weapon on one model.

Hell, a Fusion Gun (assuming Melta stats) hitting on a 3+ still has a more than 60% chance of failing to kill a single Custodian Guard with no shield. And that's in Melta range!


That's a good point too. I didn't realize it was only on one model! If it was used on some serious firepower coming our way we can also always shut off re-rolls and Transhuman too.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 20:31:38


Post by: Toofast


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So this is what I was afraid of. People are so happy over the shiney new toy (Katas) that they are not seeing the emergent trend, i.e. GW is sick of Invulns, and wants them to not be a thing anymore.


Which is weird because Black Templars just got a 5+ invuln army wide and Custodes got their version. 1 book later GW is changing their entire strategy and giving everyone a way to ignore invulns. Can they maintain a consistent and cohesive design philosophy for just one edition? Each edition only lasts like 2 years now so it can't be that hard...


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 20:50:31


Post by: xerxeskingofking


and, I must point out, "ignore invunerable saves" has Been A Thing for this whole edition. C'tan nightbringer has been able to do it, the Deathwatch have a swrod they can give to regular squad sgts that can do it, even. Yes those are melee weapons but still, they haven't really invalidated our faction YET.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 21:03:53


Post by: Tiberias


JNAProductions wrote:
Audustum wrote:
leerm02 wrote:
Wow, that strat is basically: "pick a custodes unit to kill this phase". I bet the tau players are loving this! (our faction, not so much...)


It's subfaction locked. We'll have to see if that's the subfaction people like.
It's also one weapon on one model.

Hell, a Fusion Gun (assuming Melta stats) hitting on a 3+ still has a more than 60% chance of failing to kill a single Custodian Guard with no shield. And that's in Melta range!


Fair point, but I'd argue that our single model units like dreadnoughts or bike captains suffer the most here. The option to remove or severely damage such a high value target with consistency is very powerful.

Regarding our Infantry, I worry more about high volume Ap2 shots.

xerxeskingofking wrote:and, I must point out, "ignore invunerable saves" has Been A Thing for this whole edition. C'tan nightbringer has been able to do it, the Deathwatch have a swrod they can give to regular squad sgts that can do it, even. Yes those are melee weapons but still, they haven't really invalidated our faction YET.


The Nightbringer was a counterpick against custodes since he got his new rules. But like you said he's a melee threat and can be slowed and outmaneuvered. This is more difficult to do against shooting weapons that ignore invulns.

Look, I'm not saying it's the end of the world for custodes here, but the rate at which GW is putting out rules to invalidate invulns is frankly a bit worrying.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 21:05:46


Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis


Man, I always love the chicken-littleing by some people whenever another faction's dex is about to come out.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 21:06:44


Post by: nordsturmking


Yeah it seems like GW is giving almost everyone a 5+ inv. all aspect warriors are gonna have one too.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 21:12:32


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


"Give a single model the ability to ignore Invuln saves in a shooting round" changes A LOT when we are talking about the burst fire of a Heavy Burst Fire Cannon, that is 48" H6, S12 AP5 d4. Lets not also overlook the battlesuits can fire in melee now, and when charged, "jump out of the charge" making them nonchargeable for a round. I just feel like this is why Custodes need to give up relying on just turtle style, and be able to get into the fight faster, and wreck stuff. But we are now locked at d2, so we either over kill a bunch of drones and firewarriors, or we barely do enough wounds to bracket a FW battlesuit.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 21:13:16


Post by: Grimskul


With how rampant high AP weaponry is, this is GW's terrible band aid solution. Which they then circumvent with this nonsensical "ignore invuln" weaponry. Mortal wounds exist already as a mechanic, it's bizarre they're going out of their way to work around the defenses they're handing out.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 21:14:31


Post by: stratigo


 JNAProductions wrote:
Audustum wrote:
leerm02 wrote:
Wow, that strat is basically: "pick a custodes unit to kill this phase". I bet the tau players are loving this! (our faction, not so much...)


It's subfaction locked. We'll have to see if that's the subfaction people like.
It's also one weapon on one model.

Hell, a Fusion Gun (assuming Melta stats) hitting on a 3+ still has a more than 60% chance of failing to kill a single Custodian Guard with no shield. And that's in Melta range!


You wouldn't use it on a fusion gun.

In any case, GW has clearly hit on a trend, ignoring invul saves. This trend will ONLY increase, like -1 damage did, until it is mundane and common in armies. This happens EVERY time GW hits on a trend. They over proliferated invuls (which devalues ours, ha), so now they are proliferating ways around invuls. I mean, at least this is a trend we got some sugar from, but it is gonna kick us pretty hard in half a year's time.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 22:12:01


Post by: Audustum


stratigo wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Audustum wrote:
leerm02 wrote:
Wow, that strat is basically: "pick a custodes unit to kill this phase". I bet the tau players are loving this! (our faction, not so much...)


It's subfaction locked. We'll have to see if that's the subfaction people like.
It's also one weapon on one model.

Hell, a Fusion Gun (assuming Melta stats) hitting on a 3+ still has a more than 60% chance of failing to kill a single Custodian Guard with no shield. And that's in Melta range!


You wouldn't use it on a fusion gun.

In any case, GW has clearly hit on a trend, ignoring invul saves. This trend will ONLY increase, like -1 damage did, until it is mundane and common in armies. This happens EVERY time GW hits on a trend. They over proliferated invuls (which devalues ours, ha), so now they are proliferating ways around invuls. I mean, at least this is a trend we got some sugar from, but it is gonna kick us pretty hard in half a year's time.


It's locked to one unit. I don't play Tau. What loadouts does it get?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 22:26:22


Post by: xerxeskingofking


Audustum wrote:


It's locked to one unit. I don't play Tau. What loadouts does it get?


its locked to a single gun, chosen by the player on casting, from the unit he chooses, so it could be any gun in the armory, but only one instance of that gun.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/18 23:20:47


Post by: Torgroll


Overcharged Riptide would be fun with this stratagem Heavy 6 + 2, S7, AP -3, Dmg 3. Overcharge to S8 & Dmg 4. 1 MW per 1 to hit if i read the leaks right.

Commander with relic and HH hero looks nice too but im sure our tough guys can take the hit, i mean we have the glorious kata for the good players what else do we need. Nervermind the sneaking from los blocking terrain to los blocking terrain because we are the golden gits!

Deepstrike or bikes... .

Jokes aside i'm really happy for them, their codex looks like fun.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/19 01:16:06


Post by: stratigo


Torgroll wrote:
Overcharged Riptide would be fun with this stratagem Heavy 6 + 2, S7, AP -3, Dmg 3. Overcharge to S8 & Dmg 4. 1 MW per 1 to hit if i read the leaks right.

Commander with relic and HH hero looks nice too but im sure our tough guys can take the hit, i mean we have the glorious kata for the good players what else do we need. Nervermind the sneaking from los blocking terrain to los blocking terrain because we are the golden gits!

Deepstrike or bikes... .

Jokes aside i'm really happy for them, their codex looks like fun.


The tau have a problem that their codex, when good, is just fething awful to play against. They stand up, shoot you, shoot you more, shoot again. And that's it. There's no interaction, indeed the tau player is better off the more he can just ignore whatever the other player does. They made them miserable in 8th, and they're still not fun in 9th, and GW is going "Well, since we made riptides no longer actually immortal, guess we better give them enough shooting to one round anyone".

If tau are tournament playable, it'll be through the same gak GW had to nerf into non existence from orks and admech. Cause they never learn


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/19 01:27:25


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


It feels like GW had two very different rules teams here. One did Custodes, and didn't care about them, but had just watched the entire collection of Sammo Hung Kung fu movies, and the team that did the Tau codex was entirely comprised of Tau playing fans who were very upset that they didn't get to play a lot in 8th, or 9th, and wanted to go back to the days of 7th. Look at the complexity difference:

Custodes - Pick three, then two, then 1, now follow this Venn diagram, but blindfolded.

Tau - BIG GUN GO PEW PEW YOU TAKE 60 DAMAGE, NO SAVE! HURR HURR.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/19 02:03:05


Post by: leerm02


Rules talk aside, there is something inherently funny about the pitch meeting that must have taken place for the new Custodes dex:

"What's better than nearly immortal golden space-marine demi-gods?"

"Nearly immortal golden space-marine demi-gods that know KARATE!"

"Sold! Someone promote this man!"


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/19 03:44:12


Post by: McMagnus Mindbullets


Mr. Funktastic wrote:
artific3r wrote:
I suspect the ka'tahs are what's going to separate an average Custodes player from a great one. All the depth of the codex is locked up in the ka'tahs and the Emp's Chosen strat.

Using just the datasheets, basic strats, and non-Emperor's Chosen shield hosts will probably be a sort of baseline way to play the army. But I really think the real test of skill (and perhaps the real power of the book, who knows) is going to be in learning how to get mileage out of 1) your stance order, 2) Esteemed Amalgam, and 3) Martial Discretion.

Your stance order is obviously super important because if you get it right, you won't have to burn as much CP on Martial Discretion to get the effect you want on the unit you want, which would then free up Esteemed Amalgam for use on something else, or simply save you 1 CP for any of the other myriad, highly useful 1 CP strats.

Esteemed Amalgam can essentially be thought of as 5 strats in 1. Martial Discretion is 12 strats in 1. Not sure I'd describe a set of 17 strats that work on your whole army (excluding vehicles) as ignorable.



I agree with this take completely. I suspect the people that are down on katahs either haven't played with them enough or aren't even bothering to give them a fair shake in the first place. Katahs are potent and impactful if you use them correctly and depending on the match ups. Rendax makes our anti vehicle capability so much better across our whole army since the auto wounding on 6's applies to both shooting and melee and the +1S can basically be translated to +1 to wound in a lot of circumstances. Calistus increases our early/late game mobility significantly. Conservai makes action secondaries like Deploy Teleport Homer much more viable for us now. Dacatarai/Kaptaris can seriously neuter melee armies if used properly. And if things like Venatari Lances and Pyrithite Spears from FW get auric, you'll be seeing more people use Salvus too. All of those things spread across more or less army wide really adds up. You can seriously do some pretty nutty things with katahs that you wouldn't be able to if you know how to use them. Sleep on them at your own peril.


I agree with all of this absolutely. To master playing the old custodes, it was all about expert resource management: managing a small number of quality units, using them to constantly create threats and contain the enemy while maximising points scored, alongside measured CP use to ensure the right choices were made from our host of high quality strats.

The new book takes this and turns it up to 11. I haven't had the chance to playtest yet, but the sheer versatility of the rules provided by the Emps Chosen shield host just bring an insane depth to the army. The trait is always good on every unit, and with the new stratagem style encouraging msu that rule will be utilized throughout the game. I think people are quick to discount just how great a single rr to hit or wound can be, and with the general high quality and scarcity of Custodes attacks it can just make all the msu units so much more efficient.

As mentioned above, the existence of the ka'tahs breadth of benefits provides so so many decisions to make in order to optimise performance. Combine that with the ability for a single unit to use any ka'tah/shield host trait for 1 CP and there's just so much juice that can be squeezed out of every point of the game. The resource management required to master the army has increased tenfold and for that I have really come around on the design of the book. I'm really excited to learn how to play it well and take it to events.

I'd be wrong not to mention that I am at least a little disappointed we aren't lacking the raw damage potential I wished our units had (lack of access to 3 damage sources is criminal) and am definitely fearful of the prevalence of ignored invulns. It's a rather hostile meta for the Custodes at the moment and it might only get worse from here, just have to hope our counters will wane soon. I am hoping that GW tones down the 'it' thing they keep doing, prev with ignoring damage then with -1dmg and now ignoring invulns in the tau. I hope that the quarterly balance dataslates/biannual seasons promote more active tuning of these meta.

I think someone mentioned that it seems like the 9e dexes have been written by different people and I have to disagree. It's been pretty clear across 9e that while GW is introducing clear power creep, each books internal balance and relative power has been steadily getting better. If this book released when it was meant to it would've been amazing and performed brilliantly after the balance update. Once the FW FAQ comes out and we can look at the army holistically, I'm pretty confident in assuming we're gonna find that the army is very satisfying to learn, play as and against .The Custodes and GSC dexes are masterpieces for flavour, internal balance and flair imo. It's a shame that power creep is so profitable, because if every book was like these two we'd be in a very very good era of game design.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/19 08:17:35


Post by: Balerion


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
It feels like GW had two very different rules teams here. One did Custodes, and didn't care about them, but had just watched the entire collection of Sammo Hung Kung fu movies, and the team that did the Tau codex was entirely comprised of Tau playing fans who were very upset that they didn't get to play a lot in 8th, or 9th, and wanted to go back to the days of 7th. Look at the complexity difference:

Custodes - Pick three, then two, then 1, now follow this Venn diagram, but blindfolded.

Tau - BIG GUN GO PEW PEW YOU TAKE 60 DAMAGE, NO SAVE! HURR HURR.

Now don't take this in a wrong way, but I assume you haven't played with the new codex yet?
The Kata system may seem rigid or complicated until you try it out. In reality, it improves the flexibility of custodes and it's more complicated on paper than in reality. Plus, you are free to not use it at all. The army (based on just 1 game I had so far), feels very free on the table.
According to the lore, Custodes adapt to their opponents, right? I remember a scene from Master of Mankind I think, were a Custodian let their opponent to swing at him a couple of times, to get information and then, pummeled him.

This is how the codex actually feels in a way. You have a big toolkit that can adapt to your opponent. Same with Katas, the fact you choose them AFTER your opponent deployed, gives you chance to prepare bonuses toy counter your opponent.

I was also down on the katas at first, feeling they don't match the fluff, but I might've been wrong. Obviously, to match the fluff 100%, the katas would be chosen per model, but that'd be nuts And with EC you can still change hosts or katas per unit, so that's very close to the fluff considering the limitations of a game.

So I don't agree with your assessment that the guy writing the custodes codex didn't care about them. The opposite might be true actually.


EDIT: Also, in fluff, custodes study A LOT, right? They learn about their enemies to prepare in advance and are also able to adapt on the battlefield based on their opponent. That makes EC an amazing representation of fluff in game when you think about it.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/19 08:20:59


Post by: ZergSmasher


I'm still trying to figure out why everyone is saying that ignoring invul saves is so common. Tau are the only army I know of that can do it very much, and even that is with specific weapons and/or a specific subfaction. The C'tan Nightbringer shard is one model, from a faction that isn't exactly dominating the meta. That Deathwatch weapon mentioned earlier (the Xenophase Blade); do any Deathwatch players actually take it?

Am I missing any ignore invuls here? Or is everyone including lists like GK and TS that can spam Psychic powers as ignoring invul saves? Because those have been ignoring saves since early 8th (anyone remember Chaos Malefic Lord spam lists? Pepperidge Farm remembers).


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/19 09:37:55


Post by: WisdomLS


 ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out why everyone is saying that ignoring invul saves is so common. Tau are the only army I know of that can do it very much, and even that is with specific weapons and/or a specific subfaction. The C'tan Nightbringer shard is one model, from a faction that isn't exactly dominating the meta. That Deathwatch weapon mentioned earlier (the Xenophase Blade); do any Deathwatch players actually take it?

Am I missing any ignore invuls here? Or is everyone including lists like GK and TS that can spam Psychic powers as ignoring invul saves? Because those have been ignoring saves since early 8th (anyone remember Chaos Malefic Lord spam lists? Pepperidge Farm remembers).


Its becoming more common I think is the point - besides the ones you mentioned there is Belakor who ignores them in combat, our lockwarden WT, GSC have a way to do it on a character but Tau are the main offenders with High Damage, High AP ranged attacks.
Giving it to ranged attacks makes it a hell of alot more powerful, the new strat is sept locked and costs 2 CP which is pretty costly but when you consider it can be used on the massive gun on a Stormsurge (or god forbid a Ta'unar) it will just auto delete anything it shoots.

Its part of the wider issue with durability and lethality that is plaguing 9th edition -

They up the wounds on marines and other models - they then make more weapons have multi damage - they then give more units -1 damage.

They up the AP of weapons across the board (primaris bolters, blade artists, pulse rifles, choppas, etc....)- then armour become pretty pointless so they give out invulns like candy (seriously most factions can take them army wide!) - now they are introducing attacks to ignore invulns as its pretty silly that powerful weapons are getting saved against on all targets.


The problem is that this just creates rock/paper/scissors matchups - does your opponent have the new rules to counter your rules or vice versa? if so a bad game is had.

Custodes are on the bottom end of most of these matchup unfortunately, our damage is mostly flat 2 and high AP and we rely on good armour and invuln saves for are survivability - all of which are becoming pretty poor.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/19 13:03:46


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Nullzone, several SoB miracle dice abilities, "Always wounds on a X" abilities, Two assassins, and MWs are all DGAF about your Invuln saves. But then there are also things like the new Eldar mess where they are basically getting miracle dice, so they can force you to roll a 1 on your save, when tanking that fusion pistol to the face, or worse, the Fire Lance. Also, Avatar of Khaine is getting Ignores invulns on his sword as well. According to leaks.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/19 15:20:18


Post by: The Red Hobbit


 ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out why everyone is saying that ignoring invul saves is so common. Tau are the only army I know of that can do it very much, and even that is with specific weapons and/or a specific subfaction. The C'tan Nightbringer shard is one model, from a faction that isn't exactly dominating the meta. That Deathwatch weapon mentioned earlier (the Xenophase Blade); do any Deathwatch players actually take it?

Am I missing any ignore invuls here? Or is everyone including lists like GK and TS that can spam Psychic powers as ignoring invul saves? Because those have been ignoring saves since early 8th (anyone remember Chaos Malefic Lord spam lists? Pepperidge Farm remembers).


There haven't been many ignore Invuls so far but now that they are no longer locked to very powerful units like the Nightbringer / Belakor or a rare weapon so it seems people are getting concerned this is the new design trend where more common units (and strats) will come out that will ignore Invuls.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/19 16:02:10


Post by: Audustum


Which is a little premature. Ignore invulns on a AP-3 weapon still leaves us with a 5+ armor save, for example. Yeah, we don't want the ability slathered across tons of stuff because then the 4++ we pay for isn't doing anything, but it's O.K. on this strat in my view.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/19 17:11:43


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Again, this is just a single faction, but just in the last two months, we've seen the faction that relies on Invulns more than any other faction, flanked by two entire factions that have units and abilities, which can now easily ignore Invulns at will. That being Tau and Eldar. This is very disturbing trend, and should not be brushed aside with a casual wave of the hand. This is why I was so hesitent to proclaim our vaunted Emperor's Chosen 4+++ against MWs as king.

MWs are no longer the name of the threat. If you have units that can ignore Invulns, you don't need MWs. Unless you are Mortarian, where even a double shoot from a Hammerhead fails to kill.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/19 18:45:00


Post by: artific3r


 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
.The Custodes and GSC dexes are masterpieces for flavour


Competitive power is great and all but if I'm being honest this is my favorite thing about the new book. Learning to play Custodes suddenly feels like you are studying to become a martial arts demigod, one who has mastered all forms of warfare and knows exactly the right move to use on exactly the right unit at the exactly the right time. The fact that your whole army can use all stances and all fighting styles really rams home the theme of every single Custodian being a hyper versatile, multi-disciplined, warrior-hero in his own right. Even if the meta shifts against Custodes I will still be happy with this book for delivering on the flavor side of things.

People were pretty down on the new codex in the weeks leading up to release, but I think they will come around once they sit down and take the time to learn the ka'tahs and the fighting styles. There is a lot of depth here, and a lot of the book's power is hidden away in that depth.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/19 18:52:47


Post by: ERJAK


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Nullzone, several SoB miracle dice abilities, "Always wounds on a X" abilities, Two assassins, and MWs are all DGAF about your Invuln saves. But then there are also things like the new Eldar mess where they are basically getting miracle dice, so they can force you to roll a 1 on your save, when tanking that fusion pistol to the face, or worse, the Fire Lance. Also, Avatar of Khaine is getting Ignores invulns on his sword as well. According to leaks.


1 SoB miracle dice ability.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/19 23:44:48


Post by: MinMax


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The faction that relies on Invulns more than any other faction

Yeah - that would be Daemons.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/20 03:50:48


Post by: Mr. Funktastic


Damn, we just got an awesome new codex to figure out that the AOW guys agree is an A to A+ tier book that's arguably one of the most versatile and well balanced to come out so far and all the doomers on here can do is lament about the next books coming out. Play some actual games and really get to know how the new army works before y'all start complaining that we don't have enough of this and that to compete. We have a massive toolkit now to deal with a plethora of situations, we're going to be just fine. Some people will find anything to whine about, I guess.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/20 05:18:00


Post by: ZergSmasher


Mr. Funktastic wrote:
Damn, we just got an awesome new codex to figure out that the AOW guys agree is an A to A+ tier book that's arguably one of the most versatile and well balanced to come out so far and all the doomers on here can do is lament about the next books coming out. Play some actual games and really get to know how the new army works before y'all start complaining that we don't have enough of this and that to compete. We have a massive toolkit now to deal with a plethora of situations, we're going to be just fine. Some people will find anything to whine about, I guess.

Welcome to the internet, where everything's doom and gloom and the facts don't matter.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/20 08:21:14


Post by: KGYM


Had my first 2 games yesterday with the new codex. Shield Host traits, Katahs and our strats are just mind blowingly amazing. Our army became a smart army overnight: previously we either did full on dread brawl, or a defensive strategy with shields. The first has no appeal to me, it is fun, but at the same time there is no brain behind it (hit them faster than they hit us), and the "sword and board sitting on objectives" play just took away all my agency.

Now we have so many janky gak it's amazing. I brought the EC list from Goonhammer's codex review, and went down the soon to be classic Katah-road of (movement)/(horde or vehicle bashing)/(locking in combat). Katahs are so simple, my opponents understood them in half a minute, and they proved incredibly useful. Combining these with all these small tools we have (bikes extra consolidate, reroll deny, SH change for one turn, praetorian plate etc) made the army harder to play, but more rewarding, and more forgiving of mistakes in a way.

First match was against DG, terminus est pox horde with huge blobs of termies and DP, Typhus, more termies in DS. We had Battle Lines, so short side deploy, and knowing that the DS will hurt me I opted for a quick steamroll over everything they have in order to prepare for the second wave. The Advance 2d6HI trait was incredible for positioning, and the +1 A in exchange for D1 is a big up against poxwalkers and termies. I agree with Harpster from AoW on this, Damage Reduction is a superficial problem for us, as we are converting attacks at a high rate even without buffs, and also we have a dedicated katah stance to combat this. DG player missed a few charges with the DS units, so I cleaned house on his side of the board and turned around with losing 2 shield guardians until T3. He gave up.

Next one was eldar, shitton of reapers, wraithdudes (TEQ eldar unit), and shining spears. I took the mission sec of 3 points for midboard objective, maxed it out even with an open middle. Deathblob just walked up the board, the praetorian plate made my opponent incredibly frustrated, and the Vehicle/Monster Rendax katah was a godsend against all these vehicles and monsters (6s to autowound are pretty strong, turns out). He had some good moments, but when I can just teleport shunt into combat, when I can just switch my Galatus to fallback+charge mode for 1CP to suddenly go around the midboard brawl and charge into the backfield reaper line, there really is no pushback. Ofc eldar are really overcosted without a new codex, but still came away with a 80-30 against a formidable opponent.

Folks, we became a smart army and a damn good one as well.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/20 11:46:42


Post by: Darkseid


As someone who is facing close-combat Space Marines regularly; what Shield Host should I consider?

Emperor’s Chosen seem to be hyped up, but the 4+ against mortals doesn’t seem super important going by my previous games.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/20 12:14:37


Post by: KGYM


Shadowkeepers is nice as it takes away a good portion of their attacks, and lets you take out buffing characters faster. Aquilan Shield also funky, as the Core Heroic makes you able to just gang up on anyone jumping at you. Emissaries also great with the fight first and the modifier optional ignoring.

From what I know, melee marines either go full berzerk with a shitton of attacks, or lean hard into power weapons. I would look around Emissaries, with an option to switch someone to SK for the -1A (even though it is telegraphed quite a bit).


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/20 13:11:57


Post by: Tiberias


 Darkseid wrote:
As someone who is facing close-combat Space Marines regularly; what Shield Host should I consider?

Emperor’s Chosen seem to be hyped up, but the 4+ against mortals doesn’t seem super important going by my previous games.


If you know your are up against combat focused space marines a lot, then Shadowkeepers is the way to go. Not only do you reduce their attacks with the shield host trait, which is very powerful, but you also get access to fight last with the stasis oubliette relic and you can easily kill any character they throw at you with the lockwarden warlord trait. Imo it doesn't get any better than shadowkeepers against combat focused space marine armies.

If you do not like shadowkeepers, then Emissaries Imperatus are worth a shot. Having fight first on everything and ignoring modifiers can be really strong against combat armies specifically.

And lastly there is everybodys darling: Emperor's Chosen. Their shield host fighting style doesn't help you specifically against combat armies, but what makes them interesting even in such a matchup is their shield host specific stratagem, which lets you give one unit a different shield host fighting style for a turn. Need to reduce incoming damage? Make your unit into shadowkeepers and reduce their attacks. Need to get out of combat to charge something more important? Make one unit into solar watch for a turn so you can fall back an charge. Need extra AP to cut through space marine armor more consistently? Dread Host it is.



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/20 13:21:01


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Which blade master config would be best suited for chopping up an army of Saly Aggressors? Victus? Even then he would only kill maybe 3, if they don't murder him on the charge with fires of battle.

I found a really awesome 3d printable dnd sculpt of a space janitor with a big runic sword, and I'm gonna try slapping that on a 50m base and see what he looks like. I need to get the dimensions of the actual model to know what I have to size him to. Does anyone actually have the model and can give me the assembled height etc?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/21 14:26:19


Post by: xerxeskingofking


original article here:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/21/spread-the-glory-of-the-emperor-with-these-free-adeptus-custodes-points-updates/


GW have dropped the updated points values for the custodes for free as a pdf download.

quick highlights form the article:

Misericordias are now free.

Trajan, bike caps and valerian are all 10 points cheaper.
standard sheild caps and termie caps are both 5 points more expensive, blade champ is +10

Allarus and jetbikes are both down 5pts.

our heavy vehicles have had points drop. Intrestingly, the telemon and coronus both have large point adjustments advertised on the article but their not on the PDF, nor are any of the Forge world stuff.


edit:

what i find most intresting is this rebalance CANNOT be as a result of any playtesting feedback, given the lack of time since codex release and the lead times for getting a hardcopy book printed. so these must have been planned either form the get go, or the MFM team doesnt talk to the codex rules teams and just overwrites what they print.




Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/21 15:07:40


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


So Grav Carriers are the new best way to get up the map? At 220, It's a T8 platform, with 18 wounds, a lite Storm Cannon, Fly, and a 14" move. I hope they allow us to put Sisters and or Terminators in them. Right now it just says "Custodes Infantry", but most transports have extra wording for Terminators.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/21 16:15:02


Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis


Venerable Land Raiders need to drop another 20 points before they're worth considering IMO. Better now, but still too much.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/21 16:16:11


Post by: Tiberias


xerxeskingofking wrote:
original article here:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/21/spread-the-glory-of-the-emperor-with-these-free-adeptus-custodes-points-updates/


GW have dropped the updated points values for the custodes for free as a pdf download.

quick highlights form the article:

Misericordias are now free.

Trajan, bike caps and valerian are all 10 points cheaper.
standard sheild caps and termie caps are both 5 points more expensive, blade champ is +10

Allarus and jetbikes are both down 5pts.

our heavy vehicles have had points drop. Intrestingly, the telemon and coronus both have large point adjustments advertised on the article but their not on the PDF, nor are any of the Forge world stuff.


edit:

what i find most intresting is this rebalance CANNOT be as a result of any playtesting feedback, given the lack of time since codex release and the lead times for getting a hardcopy book printed. so these must have been planned either form the get go, or the MFM team doesnt talk to the codex rules teams and just overwrites what they print.




Those are some juicy point drops. So the coronus drops a whopping 30p....at what point does that thing become interesting and could it even fill a role we need? Do we need a transport for our Infantry?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/21 16:23:19


Post by: Audustum


xerxeskingofking wrote:
original article here:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/21/spread-the-glory-of-the-emperor-with-these-free-adeptus-custodes-points-updates/


GW have dropped the updated points values for the custodes for free as a pdf download.

quick highlights form the article:

Misericordias are now free.

Trajan, bike caps and valerian are all 10 points cheaper.
standard sheild caps and termie caps are both 5 points more expensive, blade champ is +10

Allarus and jetbikes are both down 5pts.

our heavy vehicles have had points drop. Intrestingly, the telemon and coronus both have large point adjustments advertised on the article but their not on the PDF, nor are any of the Forge world stuff.


edit:

what i find most intresting is this rebalance CANNOT be as a result of any playtesting feedback, given the lack of time since codex release and the lead times for getting a hardcopy book printed. so these must have been planned either form the get go, or the MFM team doesnt talk to the codex rules teams and just overwrites what they print.




Note also that GSC aren't getting any changes despite releasing at the same time as us. Definitely weird.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/21 16:29:58


Post by: H.B.M.C.


What am I missing? Where are the FW unit changes? I see one page in that doc, and it's just Codex units.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/21 16:32:17


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What am I missing? Where are the FW unit changes? I see one page in that doc, and it's just Codex units.


Did you read his post? He says the download page only covers codex units, but the webpage shows non-codex units, like Telemon and Cgravis.

I wonder if this is because GW plans on releasing a All faction FW book soon, and doesn't want to give that away free.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/21 17:06:04


Post by: Thairne


I still dont think we need a Coronus. Or a LR for that matter.
Its just not a role the army needs in this stage...
I mean the Coronus is beefy now, but it's a door stopper. Same with the LR, if it was worth taking.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/21 17:37:47


Post by: nordsturmking


xerxeskingofking wrote:
original article here:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/21/spread-the-glory-of-the-emperor-with-these-free-adeptus-custodes-points-updates/


GW have dropped the updated points values for the custodes for free as a pdf download.

quick highlights form the article:

Misericordias are now free.

Trajan, bike caps and valerian are all 10 points cheaper.
standard sheild caps and termie caps are both 5 points more expensive, blade champ is +10

Allarus and jetbikes are both down 5pts.

our heavy vehicles have had points drop. Intrestingly, the telemon and coronus both have large point adjustments advertised on the article but their not on the PDF, nor are any of the Forge world stuff.


edit:

what i find most intresting is this rebalance CANNOT be as a result of any playtesting feedback, given the lack of time since codex release and the lead times for getting a hardcopy book printed. so these must have been planned either form the get go, or the MFM team doesnt talk to the codex rules teams and just overwrites what they print.




I posted the points changes (including FW ) 3 days ago.
This gives me 85-100 points in m list and free daggers is might push us in to S Tier we will see.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/21 17:44:26


Post by: Third_Age_of_Baggz


xerxeskingofking wrote:
original article here:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/21/spread-the-glory-of-the-emperor-with-these-free-adeptus-custodes-points-updates/


GW have dropped the updated points values for the custodes for free as a pdf download.

quick highlights form the article:

Misericordias are now free.

Trajan, bike caps and valerian are all 10 points cheaper.
standard sheild caps and termie caps are both 5 points more expensive, blade champ is +10

Allarus and jetbikes are both down 5pts.

our heavy vehicles have had points drop. Intrestingly, the telemon and coronus both have large point adjustments advertised on the article but their not on the PDF, nor are any of the Forge world stuff.


edit:

what i find most intresting is this rebalance CANNOT be as a result of any playtesting feedback, given the lack of time since codex release and the lead times for getting a hardcopy book printed. so these must have been planned either form the get go, or the MFM team doesnt talk to the codex rules teams and just overwrites what they print.




After I saw that points drop, I about spit my coffee out. Trajan is an absolute BEAST after already being dropped in points. Now he's an auto-include in my book. I was bummed that Wardens didn't drop in points, but after seeing free Stabby Sticks....oh yeah! Now I'm not so miffed. Cheaper Allarus Terminators + free Misericordia....Man GW really wants us to use those minis!

Xerxes, I think shield captains went down 5 points? I'm I mistaken?

I'm going to testing out Aquilan Shield Host with lots of Wardens this weekend. I


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/21 17:57:49


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Expect Trajaan to even out soon, maybe in the next few months when he's auto-include in EVERY top list.

Also, I think Wardens with free daggers now make for great "Troops" as it were. If you just take Wardens, you can basically get really tough 50 point Anti-tank axes. I'm gonna theory craft some Vanguard lists.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/21 19:39:22


Post by: leerm02


I have to say I'm loving the point drops!

I didn't get my game in the other day, unfortunately (getting a game in during the time of covid seems frustratingly difficult) but I have high hopes for this Saturday... and with the point drops I can even tweak my list!

On the subject of Land Raiders... I actually have had good luck running one in an astartes list at 1k points, because at that level it becomes difficult to deal with (or, alternately, a huge bullet sponge that lets a lot of your units score points).

I'm wondering if the same might be true of our venerable land raider...


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/21 20:38:00


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Yeah, not gonna lie, a quad LC platform hitting on 2s, that soaks up fire and requires dedicated shooting to remove, isn't that bad an option. For transports though I still say the Orion or the Cronus. Cronus if you are looking to save points, and you anti-tank is coming from other sources. I still can't believe the Telemon is unscathed after all this. I would have at least expected a nerf to Storm Cannon profile or something.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/21 20:54:14


Post by: xerxeskingofking


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Yeah, not gonna lie, a quad LC platform hitting on 2s, that soaks up fire and requires dedicated shooting to remove, isn't that bad an option. For transports though I still say the Orion or the Cronus. Cronus if you are looking to save points, and you anti-tank is coming from other sources. I still can't believe the Telemon is unscathed after all this. I would have at least expected a nerf to Storm Cannon profile or something.



well, just to tip you into more doom and gloom (if you needed help) this is JUST A points adjustment, not the long expected FAQ/Errata/Update to the forge world compendium that would include rules and stat-line changes, so thats still a possiblity.

however, bearing in mind the telemon is not CORE, and (like every other 9e codex) our stat boosting auras are now CORE locked, this points reduction might just be them reflecting this change in buff-ability reducing damage output.


Also

I wonder if this is because GW plans on releasing a All faction FW book soon, and doesn't want to give that away free.



they....they already did that? the forge world compendium? its been out for well over a year now?

I know form the previous free points update they did this time last year, they organise all the FW stuff into a separate section form the "codex" stuff in the MFM, so their will be a page for custodes FW stuff in this new book, its just not been pushed out for free (apart form via their app, that has all unit princes for free even if you dont have the book, but lets ignore that for now.....)


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/21 21:22:57


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I guess my point was that since last year, when that compendium came out, there have been multiple codexes released, and several more on the very near horizon. The game has radically altered it's style as well. I don't intend to say it's a completely different game, but keeping units like the Venetari locked out of certain updates, and the Golden dingle bikes desperately need something to give them a chance, seems counter to the purpose of making those books anyway. Now with the advent of GW plastic Heavy support units doing damage that is normally reserved for only the silliest of FW units, I think it's worth re-visiting the FW units that need some love.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/21 22:05:53


Post by: xerxeskingofking


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I guess my point was that since last year, when that compendium came out, there have been multiple codexes released, and several more on the very near horizon. The game has radically altered it's style as well. I don't intend to say it's a completely different game, but keeping units like the Venetari locked out of certain updates, and the Golden dingle bikes desperately need something to give them a chance, seems counter to the purpose of making those books anyway. Now with the advent of GW plastic Heavy support units doing damage that is normally reserved for only the silliest of FW units, I think it's worth re-visiting the FW units that need some love.


Ah, fair enough, I agree you have a point.

Something I missed in my reading of the article until auspex tactics pointed it out was that thier is another "balence datasheet" due "early February", so that would be the most likely time for a move like that to happen.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/21 23:39:27


Post by: The Red Hobbit


Ah too bad, I was hoping to see if the Achillus had dropped in price, guess I'll have to wait for the FW FAQ.

Has anyone gotten in any games yet running Talons? I'm curious if people prefer Prosecutors, Vigilators or Witchseekers thus far.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/21 23:41:43


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Since they havent changed at all from the pre codex version, I'd say TAC is Bolters, Flamers are great for hordes and daemon armies, Swords are still pretty useless.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/22 00:42:04


Post by: Rivener


In another codex a 14 point M7 WS3 S5 AP-3 D2 with two attacks and easy access to +1 to hit and/or full hit rerolls, rerolling wounds of 1, etc. would be pretty damned good.

Incubi are used extremely aggressively at 4 points more per model with very similar stats. Obviously Incubi have a vast infrastructure of support that gets them to the outrageous murder machines they are, but my point remains the same: Vigilators will positively hew through marines and other MEQs, and they’ll do it at a ferocious price point while hurting enemy psykers by proxy.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/22 00:50:34


Post by: The Red Hobbit


I picked up Valerian and Aleya a while back and have always wanted to run them. I plan on putting together some Vigilators in the future for her to command the only concern I have of course is they don't seem like they're very survivable outside a null-maiden rhino.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/22 00:58:55


Post by: leerm02


You know, I love the addition of the SoS into the codex... but is there really a GOOD reason to run a full SoS army? I mean, I guess if you want to do a thematic open-play mission or something against demons or T-sons... but that seems like it probably would't be much fun for the other player...

I feel like, to really make them "pop" as a sort of "faction within a faction" they need at least a few more models or... something.

Help me out here: do YOU see yourself running an ALL SoS army?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/22 01:06:47


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I am really interested in finding out what GW plans to give us for a fortification, as every army is supposed to get one.

Also, I'm trying to consider the value of taking Allarus over Aquilons now that they've lost all their special abilities that made them worth taking over Aquilons.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/22 01:58:11


Post by: Audustum


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I am really interested in finding out what GW plans to give us for a fortification, as every army is supposed to get one.

Also, I'm trying to consider the value of taking Allarus over Aquilons now that they've lost all their special abilities that made them worth taking over Aquilons.


They're cheaper and you can take squads of 1. Those are the two big advantages from my point of view.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/22 13:45:46


Post by: Darkseid


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Also, I'm trying to consider the value of taking Allarus over Aquilons now that they've lost all their special abilities that made them worth taking over Aquilons.


Maybe anti-horde duty with lastrum bolters and claws in the +1 attack stance. That’s 6 attacks per model that hit on 2+ with S6 re-rolling.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/22 15:16:02


Post by: Third_Age_of_Baggz


leerm02 wrote:
I have to say I'm loving the point drops!

On the subject of Land Raiders... I actually have had good luck running one in an astartes list at 1k points, because at that level it becomes difficult to deal with (or, alternately, a huge bullet sponge that lets a lot of your units score points).

I'm wondering if the same might be true of our venerable land raider...


I was already contemplating taking a Land Raider with the codex release, but after another points drop I’m definitely going to try it out.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/22 15:24:42


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I don't understand how our powerfists still didn't get a power bump in the damage department. The Andrathic Destructors are looking like our best anti-elite option now. I just don't get the intent behind the lack of obvious changes.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/22 15:36:33


Post by: Eihnlazer


Not EVERYTHING is -1dmg. Our aquilons do still overkill a knight if they charge it afterall.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/22 17:08:53


Post by: Bilge Rat


Hi all,

I had never been all that interested in the Custodes but I have always thought that the Sisters of Silence were pretty cool. I was interest to hear that it is now possible to make a proper detachment using only SoS units.

However, I assume that an all SoS army would still be pretty bad, right? It may be possible, and they at least they warlord traits and stuff now, but am I right that, say, a 1000 point list would still struggle in most situations?

There is also the practical side that I would need something like 40-50 models. Are there any good model options for an HQ other than the one from the Valerian and Aleya twin pack?

Thanks for any info


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/22 17:42:42


Post by: Eihnlazer


Your in luck. You can make a decent 2k list with only SoS now. It is rather cost prohibitive though.

Spoiler:

+++ SoS (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [107 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Detachment Type / Shield Host: Anathema Psykana, Emperor's Chosen

+ Stratagems +

Stratagem: Open the Vaults: 2x Additional Relics

+ HQ +

Knight-Centura: 2. Silent Judge (Aura), Enhanced Voidsheen Cloak, Executioner Greatblade, Warlord

Knight-Centura: 1. Oblivion Knight, Executioner Greatblade, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes

Knight-Centura: 3. Mistress of Persecution (Aura), Excruciatus Flamer, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Witchseeker Flamer

+ Troops +

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 9x Prosecutor: 9x Boltgun

+ Elites +

Vigilators: Vigilator Sister Superior
. 9x Vigilator: 9x Executioner Greatblade

Vigilators: Vigilator Sister Superior
. 9x Vigilator: 9x Executioner Greatblade

Vigilators: Vigilator Sister Superior
. 9x Vigilator: 9x Executioner Greatblade

+ Fast Attack +

Witchseekers: Witchseeker Sister Superior
. 9x Witchseeker: 9x Witchseeker Flamer

Witchseekers: Witchseeker Sister Superior
. 9x Witchseeker: 9x Witchseeker Flamer

Witchseekers: Witchseeker Sister Superior
. 9x Witchseeker: 9x Witchseeker Flamer

+ Dedicated Transport +

Anathema Psykana Rhino: Hunter-killer missile

Anathema Psykana Rhino: Hunter-killer missile

Anathema Psykana Rhino: Hunter-killer missile

Anathema Psykana Rhino: Hunter-killer missile

Anathema Psykana Rhino: Hunter-killer missile

Anathema Psykana Rhino: Hunter-killer missile

Anathema Psykana Rhino: Hunter-killer missile

Anathema Psykana Rhino: Hunter-killer missile

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)




All things told, this is 8 rhinos and 19 box's of SoS to create. Not cheap in the least and has some bad matchups. It isnt a bad list though and i'd rate it at an A- in terms of gameplay since its pretty good at doing most secondaries.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/22 21:12:56


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


What are people's thoughts on Telemon after the point adjustment? I know Tau/Eldar anti-tank is a legit looming threat, but they were already so good, and a discount just feels so tasty.

I just ordered two and some Sagitarrum upgrade kits because something tells me they'll see a lot of use. I also just love the models soooo much.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/22 21:22:20


Post by: Eihnlazer


Telemon was at this point range before, and it was amazing, which is why they went up on the points to the current amount.

Its even better now with shield host traits, though it is not as durable as it once was in the grand scheme of things and no longer benefits from character auras.

The points drop were in due to the fact that its not core, and you are only allowed one Eternal Pentient dread compared to before.



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/22 21:29:41


Post by: Bilge Rat


 Eihnlazer wrote:
Your in luck. You can make a decent 2k list with only SoS now. It is rather cost prohibitive though.

That is a sweet list! This is very helpful, thank you


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/23 01:06:23


Post by: Tiberias


Had a 2k game against necrons with an Emperors Chosen list.

4 jetbikes took out a 20man necron warrior squad with their hurricane bolsters after I made them into Dread Host with Esteemed Amalgam. Turns out 48 shots at S4, Ap1 is really good.

Blade Champion with Peerless Warrior and Auric Exemplar took out the second 20man warrior squad (that squad had lost 4 in shooting already, blade champion "only" killed 16 necron warriors)

I brought Valerian, because I was curious what he could do. He and the Nightbringer killed each other which was an awesome moment.

Trajann is just amazing and he got even cheaper now. Just no way that you don't include him in every single list.

After my opponent lost both 20man warrior squads his board presence was severely dampened, which allowed me to pull ahead in primary points. Ended up winning decisively.

The more I play Emperors Chosen, the more I start to love them. Esteemed Amalgam is definitely one of the best stratagems in the codex.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/23 14:33:04


Post by: Thairne


Anyone else have "problems" building Custodes lists now?
I always find myself pretty quickly at the points limit after throwing in 3 HQs and 3 Troops... those take up 2/3rds of my lists easily at 1500 pts which just leaves me with no room for "fun stuff" (I dont have prosecutors yet, so I'm still locked in to Custodes Troops).
Add in 3 bikes or 3 Terminators and the list is done...
And prosecutors run the risk of abandoning your home objective pretty quickly because 5 T3 3+ models arent durable and die to a stiff breeze/any kind of deep strike.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/23 15:02:43


Post by: Tiberias


 Thairne wrote:
Anyone else have "problems" building Custodes lists now?
I always find myself pretty quickly at the points limit after throwing in 3 HQs and 3 Troops... those take up 2/3rds of my lists easily at 1500 pts which just leaves me with no room for "fun stuff" (I dont have prosecutors yet, so I'm still locked in to Custodes Troops).
Add in 3 bikes or 3 Terminators and the list is done...
And prosecutors run the risk of abandoning your home objective pretty quickly because 5 T3 3+ models arent durable and die to a stiff breeze/any kind of deep strike.


Well, we got quite a significant points drop so it's actually kinda fun playing around with lists.

I'm my opinion you can't leave home without 3 HQs. Filling up a battalion with troops is really helped by prosecutors. I personally really enjoy one unit of sagittarium, because they can also babysit a home objective if the need arises and one unit of normal custodian guard.

That's roughly 800p if you go with MSU troop squads, which still leaves enough room to play around with elites and fast attack for 1500p and more than enough room for 2000p.



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/23 15:36:26


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I honestly don't see the value in Prosecutor troops. 50 point objective holders I guess. But what can't wipe out a 5 person squad of t3 troops that have zero support? I'd rather waste a single spear squad, at least they can pop strats and actually camp out.

I also want to ask if anyone thinks there has been a meta shift in our dreads now with the point changes? Obviously Telemon is BAMF, but for cost, aren't plastic contemptors at least a halfway decent AT and mixing it up in the front lines now? Or even DS into the backfield and popping off their Melta at something juicy?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/23 16:25:45


Post by: Thairne


Tiberias wrote:
 Thairne wrote:
Anyone else have "problems" building Custodes lists now?
I always find myself pretty quickly at the points limit after throwing in 3 HQs and 3 Troops... those take up 2/3rds of my lists easily at 1500 pts which just leaves me with no room for "fun stuff" (I dont have prosecutors yet, so I'm still locked in to Custodes Troops).
Add in 3 bikes or 3 Terminators and the list is done...
And prosecutors run the risk of abandoning your home objective pretty quickly because 5 T3 3+ models arent durable and die to a stiff breeze/any kind of deep strike.


Well, we got quite a significant points drop so it's actually kinda fun playing around with lists.

I'm my opinion you can't leave home without 3 HQs. Filling up a battalion with troops is really helped by prosecutors. I personally really enjoy one unit of sagittarium, because they can also babysit a home objective if the need arises and one unit of normal custodian guard.

That's roughly 800p if you go with MSU troop squads, which still leaves enough room to play around with elites and fast attack for 1500p and more than enough room for 2000p.



Yeah, but as Fezzik says... using prosecutors for backfield camping is just SCREAMING to have them taken away.
And if you cant leave home without 3 HQs and 3 required troops you're very, very limited.
I mean it is a 1st world problem... having 2 squads of Custodes for the Hold 1/2 is sufficient, but then again you're "only" ahead for like 80 pts which in custodes gives you not that much. And playing hold 2/3 at 1500 is really hard for Custodes anyway. So... I guess!
I am just confliced by the requirement of 3 HQs which basically means you're out of other fun stuff at that pts level.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/23 17:41:07


Post by: Audustum


I use a Prosecutor squad. They're great. You put 3-4 in cover and one touching the objective. It's 60 points or 5 2+ wounds. If anything with AP-2 or better is targeting them you already have a small victory on trades because it won't be cost efficient at 60 points


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/23 17:46:57


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I know with the current rush to put the cheapest thing possible on the backfield OBJ this suggestion is a violation of norms, but I dare say a full squad of Flamer sisters with a SoS HQ would be an amazingly devastating back field fortifier. Anything that plops down beside them gets to eat 11d6 Auto hitting s4 ap1 d1 shots. If you drop a purgation sweep thats 40-60 hits. Thats a dead squad of BLightlord terminators. And it's a dead squad of Bladeguard Vets.

I think wasting 250ish points on that isn't a bad plan for holding back fields.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/23 18:19:18


Post by: Tiberias


 Thairne wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
 Thairne wrote:
Anyone else have "problems" building Custodes lists now?
I always find myself pretty quickly at the points limit after throwing in 3 HQs and 3 Troops... those take up 2/3rds of my lists easily at 1500 pts which just leaves me with no room for "fun stuff" (I dont have prosecutors yet, so I'm still locked in to Custodes Troops).
Add in 3 bikes or 3 Terminators and the list is done...
And prosecutors run the risk of abandoning your home objective pretty quickly because 5 T3 3+ models arent durable and die to a stiff breeze/any kind of deep strike.


Well, we got quite a significant points drop so it's actually kinda fun playing around with lists.

I'm my opinion you can't leave home without 3 HQs. Filling up a battalion with troops is really helped by prosecutors. I personally really enjoy one unit of sagittarium, because they can also babysit a home objective if the need arises and one unit of normal custodian guard.

That's roughly 800p if you go with MSU troop squads, which still leaves enough room to play around with elites and fast attack for 1500p and more than enough room for 2000p.



Yeah, but as Fezzik says... using prosecutors for backfield camping is just SCREAMING to have them taken away.
And if you cant leave home without 3 HQs and 3 required troops you're very, very limited.
I mean it is a 1st world problem... having 2 squads of Custodes for the Hold 1/2 is sufficient, but then again you're "only" ahead for like 80 pts which in custodes gives you not that much. And playing hold 2/3 at 1500 is really hard for Custodes anyway. So... I guess!
I am just confliced by the requirement of 3 HQs which basically means you're out of other fun stuff at that pts level.


Prosecutors get a 2+ save in cover, so they aren't made of paper. And again, if you also bring a unit of sagittarum, you can have them babysit a home objective instead should the need arise, because the objective/terrain placement would expose prosecutors too much.

You obviously don't HAVE to bring 3 HQs. They are just really, really good. Trajann for example now costs 160p...for that cost he brings so much to the table, it's hard to pass up.

You can play 100 sister models and 6 rhinos if you want and it wouldn't be a terrible list.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/23 18:39:46


Post by: Thairne


I disagree with the paper.
They're still 5W at T3. A 2+ isnt what it used to be.. it would be a no-brainer if they stood in no mans land, but if I can take away 5 VP and force the enemy to recommit a 150+ unit to backline duty, I am so going to strike that obvious weak spot. It might be not points efficient in the literal sense, but it will draw forces away and bind them on the obj that your opp obviously doesnt want to commit.
And considering you may need to hold 2 at the min, 3 at the worst having 1 Squad of custodes for that job is simply insufficient.

Now, in my pod we all agree to NOT use hold 2/3 at 1500 pts if I play stodes because you just cannot afford it. So I can get away with 1 Prosecutor squad, more depending on enemy. But all it takes is a tiny bit of artillery and those prosecutors turn into red mist...

Or just

Do we still have an intercept strat? I don't think we do? So how do you get those 11D6 flamers out there to shoot, if they're smart enough to DS something shooty?

Also, once you deploy 190pts on an objective, roundabout, you run into even more pts problems... :(


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/23 20:06:26


Post by: Tiberias


 Thairne wrote:
I disagree with the paper.
They're still 5W at T3. A 2+ isnt what it used to be.. it would be a no-brainer if they stood in no mans land, but if I can take away 5 VP and force the enemy to recommit a 150+ unit to backline duty, I am so going to strike that obvious weak spot. It might be not points efficient in the literal sense, but it will draw forces away and bind them on the obj that your opp obviously doesnt want to commit.
And considering you may need to hold 2 at the min, 3 at the worst having 1 Squad of custodes for that job is simply insufficient.

Now, in my pod we all agree to NOT use hold 2/3 at 1500 pts if I play stodes because you just cannot afford it. So I can get away with 1 Prosecutor squad, more depending on enemy. But all it takes is a tiny bit of artillery and those prosecutors turn into red mist...

Or just

Do we still have an intercept strat? I don't think we do? So how do you get those 11D6 flamers out there to shoot, if they're smart enough to DS something shooty?

Also, once you deploy 190pts on an objective, roundabout, you run into even more pts problems... :(


There's no rule in listbuliding. I get your points and if you feel that prosecutors holding a backfield objective would be a liability, then go the patrol route. Play less HQs, get one squad of sagittarium to hold your backline where they can theoretically still contribute via shooting. That way you have enough points left to go ham on your elite and fast attack slots.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/23 20:53:34


Post by: Thairne


I guess that's just the way the cookie crumbles.
HQ or Elite/FA.
Cant have your cake AND eat it too...


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/23 20:54:31


Post by: McMagnus Mindbullets


Went 5-0 with the old shadowkeepers at the Nottingham GT this weekend. 8th placing out of 307. I'm gonna miss -1str on the telemons haha

After seeing all the previews of CA, I'm loving the place we are at right now. Almost all of the armies close to us in terms of competitive power get worse due to nerfs to key units across the board, while we get TONS better (both pts and new rules)

A wealth of very flexible options are available to us due to the terrific internal balance of the new book, and the army just seems like loads and loads of fun now. Excited to leave behind the shadowkeepers archetype and try a bit more experimentation


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/23 21:09:59


Post by: Thairne


Had a think
I actually believe that the Allarus Captain Yeetus is a good tool to shore up the prosecutor weakness.
If someone insists of DSing in and makes the charge, you can just yeet him in there and deliver fat, juicy, golden justice to the interloper, all the while bringing more bodies to the table.
He'll be stuck there probably for the rest of the game, but that's still better than losing 5-15 VP if you dont have something else nearby that can assist (which one probably wont, considering the low unit count)

I think I came up with a list I can like.
It's build vs an expected melee army like Space Wolves, so I made decisions based on that.

vs a ranged army, choices would obviously be different..

Spoiler:
b]Detachment Type / Shield Host:[/b] Adeptus Custodes, Shadowkeepers

+ Stratagems +

Stratagem: Open the Vaults: Additional Relics

+ HQ +

Blade Champion: (Shadowkeepers): Lockwarden, (Shadowkeepers): Statis Oubliette, 3. Superior Creation, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Stratagem: Victor of the Blood Games

Shield-Captain in Allarus Terminator Armor: 4. Impregnable Mind, Castellan Axe, Misericordia, Praetorian Plate, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes

Trajann Valoris

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad
3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Custodian Guard Squad
3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun

+ Elites +

Aquilon Custodians
3x Aquilon Custodian: Lastrum Storm Bolter, Misericordia, Solerite Power Gauntlet

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors
3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher

+ Heavy Support +

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought:
Arachnus Storm Cannon
Telemon Caestus


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/23 21:56:05


Post by: Tiberias


 Thairne wrote:
Had a think
I actually believe that the Allarus Captain Yeetus is a good tool to shore up the prosecutor weakness.
If someone insists of DSing in and makes the charge, you can just yeet him in there and deliver fat, juicy, golden justice to the interloper, all the while bringing more bodies to the table.
He'll be stuck there probably for the rest of the game, but that's still better than losing 5-15 VP if you dont have something else nearby that can assist (which one probably wont, considering the low unit count)

I think I came up with a list I can like.
It's build vs an expected melee army like Space Wolves, so I made decisions based on that.

vs a ranged army, choices would obviously be different..

Spoiler:
b]Detachment Type / Shield Host:[/b] Adeptus Custodes, Shadowkeepers

+ Stratagems +

Stratagem: Open the Vaults: Additional Relics

+ HQ +

Blade Champion: (Shadowkeepers): Lockwarden, (Shadowkeepers): Statis Oubliette, 3. Superior Creation, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Stratagem: Victor of the Blood Games

Shield-Captain in Allarus Terminator Armor: 4. Impregnable Mind, Castellan Axe, Misericordia, Praetorian Plate, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes

Trajann Valoris

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad
3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Custodian Guard Squad
3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun

+ Elites +

Aquilon Custodians
3x Aquilon Custodian: Lastrum Storm Bolter, Misericordia, Solerite Power Gauntlet

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors
3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher

+ Heavy Support +

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought:
Arachnus Storm Cannon
Telemon Caestus


Cool list, space wolves player is going to hate playing against that shadowkeepers list. Blade champ is going to run through every space wolves character and fight last plus - 1 attack is going to hurt them a lot in general.

Edit: this is personal preference, but I'd rather give the terminator Captain superior creation instead of the blade champ. The blade champ is going to kill every single character space wolves throw at him without a problem, but the extra survivability on a allarus captain once you yeet him across the board goes a long way since he might walk around alone.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/23 23:30:36


Post by: Eihnlazer


You know....i never really thought about it, but a bike captain with the auric aquillas is basically gonna guarentee us an action turn one in our enemies deployment zone if you plan on doing that type of action.

Tak conservoi stance 1 and he can just advance 34-35" deep into enemy territory and preform an action. Put Superior creation and radiant mantle on him and hes almost impossible to kill in one turn as well, since you can AGA and EA on him in both the shooting and fighting phase for fairly cheap.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/24 00:14:06


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I dunno about percentages, but I think GK or any psyker heavy army is gonna have a fun time making that list lose. A Squad of GK Terminators will eat that backfield for lunch.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/24 00:26:55


Post by: Tiberias


 Eihnlazer wrote:
You know....i never really thought about it, but a bike captain with the auric aquillas is basically gonna guarentee us an action turn one in our enemies deployment zone if you plan on doing that type of action.

Tak conservoi stance 1 and he can just advance 34-35" deep into enemy territory and preform an action. Put Superior creation and radiant mantle on him and hes almost impossible to kill in one turn as well, since you can AGA and EA on him in both the shooting and fighting phase for fairly cheap.


That's a neat trick. And if you bring an Allarus Captain with Praetorian Plate you can then probably yeet him towards your bike captain. So your opponent now has to deal with two super tough characters in his backfield.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/24 02:16:41


Post by: Audustum


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I dunno about percentages, but I think GK or any psyker heavy army is gonna have a fun time making that list lose. A Squad of GK Terminators will eat that backfield for lunch.


Most GK don't take terminators. Maybe they will now because DK got nerfed but it's mostly DK + Interceptor spam from them lately.

My experience, and I run a lot of bikes usually, has been that anyone who wants to focus heavily on my DZ just swaps as I take their DZ to compensate.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/24 10:57:46


Post by: Thairne


Tiberias wrote:

Edit: this is personal preference, but I'd rather give the terminator Captain superior creation instead of the blade champ. The blade champ is going to kill every single character space wolves throw at him without a problem, but the extra survivability on a allarus captain once you yeet him across the board goes a long way since he might walk around alone.


Fair point. My thinking was that the Allarus Captain will not be targetable in the turn he yeets in anyway as he was neither charged nor performed a HI. The Bladechampion will have to deal with the escorting unit of the character, like Thunderwolf Cavalry. And they can definately smash him up bad. So I figured he would need it more to do better than trade (with the I die, I fight strat).

Like I said, this list is focused on melee armies.
Against Psyker armies you'd require a totally different list and not Shadowkeepers. Just as you would play a different list against a shooty army.This is not TAC by any means


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/24 11:25:01


Post by: Tiberias


 Thairne wrote:
Tiberias wrote:

Edit: this is personal preference, but I'd rather give the terminator Captain superior creation instead of the blade champ. The blade champ is going to kill every single character space wolves throw at him without a problem, but the extra survivability on a allarus captain once you yeet him across the board goes a long way since he might walk around alone.


Fair point. My thinking was that the Allarus Captain will not be targetable in the turn he yeets in anyway as he was neither charged nor performed a HI. The Bladechampion will have to deal with the escorting unit of the character, like Thunderwolf Cavalry. And they can definately smash him up bad. So I figured he would need it more to do better than trade (with the I die, I fight strat).

Like I said, this list is focused on melee armies.
Against Psyker armies you'd require a totally different list and not Shadowkeepers. Just as you would play a different list against a shooty army.This is not TAC by any means


If you are worried of the blade champ getting killed by thunder wolf cavalry with storm hammers remember that one: it would be quite a big investment for your opponent to divert a full squad of them to kill a character that costs less than half of the unit. And second that if you spend 2cp for transhuman and emperors auspice, they probably won't even kill him. And if you want to really make sure that your blade champ can tank these space wolves units, should the need arise after he killed one of their characters, then give him the eagle's eye for that once per game 3++. That way he'll 100% tank those thunder wolves depending on how many CP you want to spend on him.

Mathhammer guys please correct but a 5man squad of thunder wolves with -1 attack from shadowkeepers are going to do about 1,4 unsaved wounds on the blade champ with their thunder hammers (if you throw transhuman and auspice on him).
If you pop the eagle's eye for the 3++ it goes down to about 0,9 unsaved wounds.

I still think the blade champ doesn't need the 5+ FnP as much as the Allarus Captain could benefit from it. Correct me if I'm wrong though or if I overlooked something.

But again as I said, personal preference.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/24 12:01:48


Post by: Thairne


Fair point again.
I think I'm overly scared of Thunderwolves because those really hurt with all the buffs, extra attacks (although negated) and flat 3 in that special case.
According to mathhammer, they have a 12% chance to kill him - that is if I dont take a CP reroll for that final failed save, which lowers it even further.
So you're right. The Captain can probably make better use of the FNP