Datasheet leaks for Swarmlord, Flyrant, Prime, Warriors, Gargoyles, Haruspex:
Spoiler:
Condensed Codex rumour summary first posted Feb 26 - the original post was corroborated by Ok_Entrepreneur3004 as mostly right:
Synaptic Links are changing to once per game effects that work on every unit within 6" of a Synapse Unit. (Note: they technically aren't called links anymore)
Known links:
• Zoanthropes give 4++ to Monsters and 5++ to non-Monsters.
• Maleceptors give the following abilities: shoot and do actions, fall back or advance and do an action, perform a psychic action and still cast powers.
• Warriors give 6s to hit in melee generate an additional hit
• Tyranid Prime gives exploding 6s for shooting when shooting a target within 24"
• Tervigon gives +2" move
• All other synapse units have changed links. A lot of buffs trigger off the Synapse keyword (Warriors are amazing, apparently)
Unit Changes:
• Swarmlord - Loses Hive Commander and 3++. Gives a unit the ability to reroll hit rolls and gives a unit Obsec. Does not ignore invulns
• Hive Tyrant – Gives reroll 1s to hit to a unit in command phase.
• Tervigon - +1 to hit for Termagants in range (don't know what). If there is a 15+ model Termagant unit within 1" of her she is untargetable. There's also a stratagem to return d3+3 models to a termagant unit, which may be linked to the tervigon
• Termagants - Devourers are 2 shots, s3 ap0 d1. Fleshborers go to Assault 1 S5 AP1 D1
• Zoanthropes - Get +1 to cast for each model in the unit and does +1 mortal wound on smite for each model in the unit (up to +3 mortals)
• Tyranid Warriors - S5/T5 base, 4+ save. Access to -1D strat in all phases. Can get to A4 S8 AP2 D2.
• Gargoyles - Troop choice - nice
• Genestealers - Elite choice, gets infiltrate
• Ripper Swarms - Fast Attack choice
• Hormagaunts - 10" move S3 WS 4+, 5+ save, 3 attacks. There's also a way to get a pregame move on them
• Carnifex - -1D as base, WS 3+ and 2+ save, 4 attacks base with +1 attack on the charge. Gets +2 attacks per pair of scything talons. With certain combos, can get up to 11 s7 ap-3 d3 attacks hitting on 2s, exploding 6s and 6s auto-wounding plus 2d3+3 mortal wounds on the charge
• Hive Guard keep Impaler Cannons {Shockcannons are apparently getting a buff though and are good for hunting light vehicles and heavy infantry} .
• Tyrant Guard gain a 6" move, s5 t6, 4 wounds, 3 attacks, and a 2+ save. Unsurprisingly, they gain the 9th edition bodyguard rule, but only for hive tyrants and swarmlord. They also get +1 attack while near a hive tyrant. [NEW]
Hive Fleet Changes:
• Hive Fleets get 2 traits as standard - one static, one flexible - and then there's 3 tables of 5 traits each (Lurk, Feed, and Hunt). Each Hive fleet has access to two of these tables, and can choose to swap their flexible trait to any of the traits from the available tables. Importantly, whether or not you choose to do this and which you swap to happens at the point after you've seen your opponent's list
Adaptive traits are the doctrine ability of the tyranids. every hive fleet gets their own proprietary adaptive trait, once per game before the battle begins you can decide to exchange the adaptive trait for 1 from the generic adaptive traits
Gorgon - All weapons effectively get Poison 4+
Leviathan:
* 1-2 TransNid on non-synapse creatures. 1-3 TransNid on synapse creatures.
* Adaptive trait: reroll one hit roll
Kronos:
* +4" to ranged weapons
* Adaptive trait: +1ap @ half range
Stratagems:
• 1cp, hormagaunts auto-advance 6" and can still charge
• 1/2cp, give +1 attack to a unit. 1cp if 19 or fewer models
Psychic Powers
• The hive fleet powers are known by every psyker in the faction without taking up a slot.
• Leviathan psychic power: choose an synaptic link from your army whose unit is alive (including one that has already triggered) and another unit from your army. The unit gains the benefit of that synaptic link in addition to any links it's currently benefitting from.
Other:
• The Parasite of Mortrex is the new kit.
• There are no new LoWs. Folks, the only new unit is the parasite
• Double move + charge is completely gone from the codex
• One Hive Tyrant per detachment (includes swarmlord)
• Lots more attacks in general. Also, apparently better WS {which should be a massive buff to basically half our roster}
March 1 - Tyrant Guard:
Tyrant Guard gain a 6" move, s5 t6, 4 wounds, 3 attacks, and a 2+ save. Unsurprisingly, they gain the 9th edition bodyguard rule, but only for hive tyrants and swarmlord. They also get +1 attack while near a hive tyrant. Their lash whips are s+2 ap-2 d2 and reroll 1s to hit, their rending claws are s+1 ap-4 d1, and their crushing claws are s+3 ap-3 d2
March 4:
The Maw-Claws of Thyrax: generic relic for all characters (you no longer need to have a specific weapon for it). The bearer gains +1 attack and can reroll wounds in the fight phase. In addition, every time it kills a model in the fight phase, it gains +1 attack for the rest of the battle (it can gain up to +3 attacks this way).
There is also a Warlord trait to give the warlord a 5+ Feel No Pain
Tyrannocytes gain true drop pod status, with the ability to enter from reserves on turn 1. Up to 20 infantry models or a monster of up to 16 wounds
Sporocysts can be deployed anywhere on the table outside 12" of enemies and the enemy deployment zone
March 6: Adaptive traits are the doctrine ability of the tyranids. every hive fleet gets their own proprietary adaptive trait, once per game before the battle begins you can decide to exchange the adaptive trait for 1 from the generic adaptive traits
Leviathan adaptive trait: reroll one hit roll
Kronos adaptive trait: +1ap @ half range
March 8:
Welcome to one of the weirder units in the book, and possibly the winner of "most improved" unit. The mawloc!
To start, he's got 16 attacks at s7 ap-1 d1 (though the strength degrades). Now that's pretty solid, but where things get fun (and strange) is the new Terror from the Deep.
In your movement phase, you place down a marker anywhere on the battlefield. At the end of your next movement phase, the mawloc comes in anywhere within 12" of that marker and outside engagement range of enemy models. If he comes in within 9" of enemy models, he can't charge that turn. When he does thing, roll a die for every unit within 6" of the marker and add 1 if they have 6-10 models, and add 2 if they have 11+ models. On a 3+ they take d3 mortals, on a 7+ they take flat 3 mortals. You can only have one mawloc come in a turn this way
One of the tail options is the biostatic rattle, and that's very different now - at the start of the fight phase, you choose a unit engaged with him and roll 3d6. If you beat their leadership, that unit cannot reroll hits or wounds this phase
March 10:
So, just to start out: a quick reminder about how the hive fleet traits work. There's two parts, a static and an adaptive - the adaptive trait can be switched out for something from the Lurk, Feed, or Hunt table - three tables of 5 traits each. Each hive fleet has access to two of these tables (for example, Leviathan can swap out their adaptive trait for anything from Feed or Hunt, kronos can swap for anything from Feed or Lurk, etc).
Now with all that reminder out of the way, here's one of the possible traits from each table. Remember that these can be switched out after you see your opponents list.
Lurk: Ignore ap-1
Feed: Targets of a charge cannot fire overwatch or set to defend
Hunt: All units in your army can heroically intervene as if they were characters
Bonus leak: Overrun not only stayed, but actually got buffed in the new codex
Synapse still allows you to ignore morale, but now only works in a 6" range. Shadow in the warp remains in the codex, but I'm unsure what form it takes.
March 12: Raveners, our favorite mini snake bois.
To start out, they're slightly more expensive than warriors, but not much. As expected, Raveners get s5/t5 4+ save. However, they also get 4 wounds and a whopping 5 attacks base. In addition, they are always -1 to hit in melee.
Their weapons have been simplified somewhat, with them having Ravener Claws and a pair of Scything Talons base, giving them 5 s5 ap-2 d1 attacks and 2 s5 ap-1 d1 attacks. Alternatively, they can swap out their Scything Talons for rending claws to get 5 s6 ap-4 d1 attacks. Finally, if they don't take any guns they get reroll 1s to hit in melee. Also they're core
Free leak because warriors got spoiled: Warriors are 25ppm, and that's irrelevant of wargear (except cannons those cost extra). Also adrenal glands/toxin sacs/flesh hooks are +X points per unit, regardless of how many models are in that unit
.
I actually quite like the aesthetics of the Tyranid range as it is. The Lictors could do with being in plastic, but other than that I'm in no real hurry for new sculpts. The rules certainly need an update though.
I doubt I'll be picking up the new Termagants and Hormagaunts, unless the models look amazing. I have so many of the little gribblies already.
New Termagants with more than one pose and not-sucky heads would be nice. Having weapon options back on top of that? Perfect.
Plastic Lictors, yes, also good.
Something old made new? Great.
Something completely unexpected like a new super-heavy? Okay I guess.
A full re-examination of the rules to make ‘nids terrifying up close again, the way T’au are terrifying at range? Outstanding.
Mr_Rose wrote: New Termagants with more than one pose and not-sucky heads would be nice. Having weapon options back on top of that? Perfect.
Plastic Lictors, yes, also good.
Something old made new? Great.
Something completely unexpected like a new super-heavy? Okay I guess.
A full re-examination of the rules to make ‘nids terrifying up close again, the way T’au are terrifying at range? Outstanding.
Something Olde, Something New, Something Burrowed, Something Blue
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Well, I took delivery of my 2nd Ed Tyranid Codex, so if you’ll excuse me, I’ll be in my corner hissing at you. And possibly clawing.
Give in to your instinctive behavior.
And have a snack. Biomass makes everything better.
I've always liked the old fluffy 'nids...endless hordes of claws and teeth with token artillery and psychic powers so vast to make Magnus pink with envy.
Valrak said "a range refresh" so it might not be just gants and gaunts..Hoping for a few kits and a few clamp packs. Bring in more weirdness and add some new bioweapons/biomorphs.
Claws crossed.. and some scenery wouldn't go amiss..
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Maybe a big new creepy crawly in the £100 range as a new centerpiece, all the current stuff is looking cheap and small
i suspect marketing would love a greater demon priced piece
It's called a Trygon.
that's only £50 though, only half what current 'centerpiece' kits cost, if something new comes out they get to charge new kit prices so it wouldnt surprise me
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Well, I took delivery of my 2nd Ed Tyranid Codex, so if you’ll excuse me, I’ll be in my corner hissing at you. And possibly clawing.
Give in to your instinctive behavior.
And have a snack. Biomass makes everything better.
Oh looooook! Non-2nd Ed Codex Tyranids owner….
You are the biomass, bunghole!
GET IN MY BELLY!
(Yes, that was no less than three pop (when I was young, so it counts) culture references in but one post!
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Well, I took delivery of my 2nd Ed Tyranid Codex, so if you’ll excuse me, I’ll be in my corner hissing at you. And possibly clawing.
Give in to your instinctive behavior.
And have a snack. Biomass makes everything better.
Oh looooook! Non-2nd Ed Codex Tyranids owner….
You are the biomass, bunghole!
GET IN MY BELLY!
(Yes, that was no less than three pop (when I was young, so it counts) culture references in but one post!
Bold of you to assume I don’t have a 2nd ed nid codex. Go find someone else to devour.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Well, I took delivery of my 2nd Ed Tyranid Codex, so if you’ll excuse me, I’ll be in my corner hissing at you. And possibly clawing.
Give in to your instinctive behavior.
And have a snack. Biomass makes everything better.
Oh looooook! Non-2nd Ed Codex Tyranids owner….
You are the biomass, bunghole!
GET IN MY BELLY!
(Yes, that was no less than three pop (when I was young, so it counts) culture references in but one post!
Bold of you to assume I don’t have a 2nd ed nid codex. Go find someone else to devour.
Esmer wrote: That means...Tyranids, then CSM, then Guard and World Eaters in either order?
Means that most likely CSM will be alongside Space Marines in a summer boxed set. The Valrak video above claimed that World Eaters would be "before the end of the year".
Speculation; if this Tyranid release consists of multiple kits as rumoured I'm wondering if it was originally pencilled in to be out with the Octarius books last year but ended up being pushed back due to production / logistics issues. That would explain why it seems to be strangely wedged in the middle of a Chaos-themed season. That's why I didn't believe the Valrak rumour when I first saw it.
I would love to make my army entirely plastic, so a Lictor kit and a -vores kit is at the top of my wishlist.
Buying new Gaunts would be ok if the codex continues to anti-promote hordes, which seems to be the vibe in 9th, but I probably wouldn't spring for more than 2-4 kits.
Genestealers could kinda use a refresh. The Deathwatch Overkill ones were a little slicker than the hoary multipart kit. And it would be of use to GSC players as well.
Esmer wrote: That means...Tyranids, then CSM, then Guard and World Eaters in either order?
Means that most likely CSM will be alongside Space Marines in a summer boxed set. The Valrak video above claimed that World Eaters would be "before the end of the year".
Speculation; if this Tyranid release consists of multiple kits as rumoured I'm wondering if it was originally pencilled in to be out with the Octarius books last year but ended up being pushed back due to production / logistics issues. That would explain why it seems to be strangely wedged in the middle of a Chaos-themed season. That's why I didn't believe the Valrak rumour when I first saw it.
Yeah I was thinking Nids probably were probably supposed to be released last year. I'd love a big kit but happy with some smaller kits instead.
Lictor/Deathleaper in plastic sold in sets of 3
Biovore/pyrovore in plastic sold in sets of 3
I'm still shocked that these haven't been done. It would remove all the finecast from the army on regular models; leaving only the Red Terror hero model.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Not gonna lie, i think the model in the New Year's thing might just be an updated Shrike.
Right now I'd also think Shrikes as well. Parasite would be a lot of fun and its something honestly new for the army to do - whilst shrikes are just warriors with wings (heck that IS what they were).
El Torro wrote: I actually quite like the aesthetics of the Tyranid range as it is. The Lictors could do with being in plastic, but other than that I'm in no real hurry for new sculpts. The rules certainly need an update though.
I doubt I'll be picking up the new Termagants and Hormagaunts, unless the models look amazing. I have so many of the little gribblies already.
Plastic Shrikes would be great though.
Uh, I got that army in 8th when the book came out. Gaunts are horrendous, ugly and very finnicky models. Ignoring Eldar and Guard, New gaunts is an absolute necessity. Carnifexes need to be upscaled to match at least the new Redemptor Dread as well....ᴹᵃʸᵇᵉ ᵗʰᵉʸ ᶜᵒᵘˡᵈ ᵃˡˢᵒ ʰᶦᵗ ᵒⁿ ˢᵒᵐᵉᵗʰᶦⁿᵍ ᵇᵉᵗᵗᵉʳ ᵗʰᵃⁿ ᵃ ⁴⁺ ᶠᵒʳ ᵒⁿᶜᵉ ʷʰᶦˡᵉ ʷᵉ'ʳᵉ ᵃᵗ ᶦᵗ.
Overread wrote: Lictor/Deathleaper in plastic sold in sets of 3
Biovore/pyrovore in plastic sold in sets of 3
I'm still shocked that these haven't been done. It would remove all the finecast from the army on regular models; leaving only the Red Terror hero model.
Technically spore mines would also need a new kit to escape resin. But if they are doing a new biovore kit, I could see them just wrapping them in together on the same sprue. I wonder how many spores they could fit into a HQ size clampack? If they did them on their own frame they could toss one into the biovore box, or let you buy them alone if you just wanted to rain floating death on the battlefield.
Just have a bad feeling that this'll be another "One-and-done" Codex, like Tau just got.
Either way, I want those 'Nid Crusade rules. I really do hope the concept behind them isn't making an infamous Tyranid creature to lead your swarm and is instead about planetary invasion and the various cycles that involves.
Overread wrote: Lictor/Deathleaper in plastic sold in sets of 3
Biovore/pyrovore in plastic sold in sets of 3
I'm still shocked that these haven't been done. It would remove all the finecast from the army on regular models; leaving only the Red Terror hero model.
Technically spore mines would also need a new kit to escape resin. But if they are doing a new biovore kit, I could see them just wrapping them in together on the same sprue. I wonder how many spores they could fit into a HQ size clampack? If they did them on their own frame they could toss one into the biovore box, or let you buy them alone if you just wanted to rain floating death on the battlefield.
You can already get plastic spore mines with the Harpy and Tyrannocyte kits, so I'm not certain they'd need a separate release if they're put alongside a plastic Biovore too.
I'm real tired of Tyranids getting a bloat of options for giant things while ostensibly being the 'swarm army'. More small stuff, anything with W1 or W2, would be welcome from me.
Don't think of this as a complete gaunt overhaul (ala 3rd ed. Dark Eldar to 5th ed Dark Eldar).
But think of it more as what they did with Tyranid Warriors - maintain the aesthetic but recut and switch up the sprues to allow for some different poses, all weapon options and easier builds.
I think GW are -very- happy with the current Tyranid Aesthetic. I think 4th ed struck the nail on the head with the hybrid sleekness of the 3rd ed designs combined with the 2nd ed postures.
But Tyranids have a lot of things that need to either be shifted out of Finecast or just redone for improved aesthetics overall (like the Eldar Guardians)..
Termagants, Hormagaunts, Carnifexes, Genestealers - all need subtle recuts or even just resculpts for new poses and designs and better sprue usage.
Termagants are too Static atm, Hormagaunts are unbalanced and spindly, Carnifexes have a LOT of dead sprue space and could do with some flexibility of build to allow them to rear up properly etc and Genestealers are effectively monopose hunched over.
Lictors, Biovores and Pyrovores are all still stuck in Finecast. And it would be so very easy for a kit for each to be a multi-build - Lictors with the option for Deathleaper and Biovore/Pyrovore dual kit.
The Red Terror needs a proper update as well as it's the old 3rd ed still.
So Tyranids don't so much need NEW as they need general tidy ups to improve the aesthetic.
It'd also be nice for Rippers not to be stuck scattered across multiple kits too.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: Just have a bad feeling that this'll be another "One-and-done" Codex, like Tau just got.
Either way, I want those 'Nid Crusade rules. I really do hope the concept behind them isn't making an infamous Tyranid creature to lead your swarm and is instead about planetary invasion and the various cycles that involves.
I'd appreciate it if the 'nid Crusade rules had a similar system to the OBR PtG rules with Bone Tithe. Destroyed enemy units PL counting as temporary RP that can be spent in place of RP - either to buy more PL/units or upgrade units etc but being lost if not spent, so unable to bank.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Just have a bad feeling that this'll be another "One-and-done" Codex, like Tau just got.
Yeah, unfortunately. The 'natural' followup to the eldar book was chaos given that they're also getting kits in the box (and rumors of more). This feels like spacing out the big releases for the season/half-year with a sacrificial codex.
Nids are very very rarely a sac codex. They arent always good but they do get semi consistent releases. They just suffered from being in a good place aesthetics wise and other ranges ate up that space (gsc, sisters, nurgle, primaris, etc). Now they are hitting ranges that have 20 year old plastics (eldar, nids).
That's why I think we're getting a one-and-done Codex. It's a flash single character release, rather than a squad or something useful new/updated.
They can make a big song and dance about the "Return of the Parasite of Mortex", tie it into some campaign book, and make it out like this is the greatest thing to happen to Tyranids since two-piece Gaunt heads.
Dysartes wrote: Question for those with a 'Nid 'dex of an appropriate vintage - what type of 'Nid was the Parasite a SC version of?
Essentially related to Shrikes the way the Red Terror was an Alpha Ravenor I think. I agree that the gants/gaunts IF they come will be like the new Eldar guardians - sharper sculpts with added poses and options. I'd love them to glow up the Fexes [I have 8] . They have been eating their greens..
But I think gants/gaunts , a Parasite, a Terror and maybe the return of Shrikes could do a lot. They may save lictors [or Shrikes?] for a Killteam release [I'm suddenly thinking Shrikes as they could avail of multiple options although warriors would be ideal as well- very mutable].
So a couple of kits, a couple of specialists/alpha critters. I'd say rippers will come with the gants [like necron warriors and scarabs].They seem to be refreshing all the old troop boxes now.
Very exited about this.
While everyone is talking about Hormagaunts and Termagants: what about new models for the Gargoyles? Sure, they're not that old, but they are horrible miniatures - body, tail and wings are fine, but the arms with the fleshborer and the head are far too large. They look like a bad kitbash. But to be fair - they never had good models.
Honestly, I kind of wish they'd make the gaunts and gargoyles out of the same base model. One box with a sprue with arms, claws, and guns, and the other box that swaps out that sprue in favor of wings. Will help make them feel more cohesive as an army.
Dryaktylus wrote: While everyone is talking about Hormagaunts and Termagants: what about new models for the Gargoyles? Sure, they're not that old, but they are horrible miniatures - body, tail and wings are fine, but the arms with the fleshborer and the head are far too large. They look like a bad kitbash. But to be fair - they never had good models.
You want whole units of Gargoyes on the new flying base GW makes?
Nvs wrote: Honestly, I kind of wish they'd make the gaunts and gargoyles out of the same base model. One box with a sprue with arms, claws, and guns, and the other box that swaps out that sprue in favor of wings. Will help make them feel more cohesive as an army.
I think its better that dedicated flying units are separate from land ones. The Hive Tyrant works but even then you're basically swapping a huge chunk of the lower body and legs around to make it work.
I think for gaunts having separate models each way is best. That lets you have gargoyles with a flying body and long wings; it lets you have hormagaunts with long legs and regular gaunts that slink closer ot the ground. I think the only way to combine them into one kit would require a lot of gaunt redesign.
That said I could see GW adjusting the design to make thinner gaunts. When you compare Tyranids to a lot of other models, the tyranids are very chunky. I'd love to see gaunts off the front of the 4th or 5th edition codex where they had a FW style Carnifex surrounded by needle legged gaunts and little spiders (toxin sacs)
Dryaktylus wrote: While everyone is talking about Hormagaunts and Termagants: what about new models for the Gargoyles? Sure, they're not that old, but they are horrible miniatures - body, tail and wings are fine, but the arms with the fleshborer and the head are far too large. They look like a bad kitbash. But to be fair - they never had good models.
You want whole units of Gargoyes on the new flying base GW makes?
No, but I want their flamer back! I want a full flamer unit again (or Strangleweb on my Gants as second-best choice). Never tried the plastic ones, never really saw a need to field the unit in its modern stance to be honest. But flamer I would (I love flamer units)!
Talking of flamers, box of 3 plastic Pyrovore when?? I want more of them, they are great little models (actually pretty large) and alway have a lots of fun using them! They are cheap in point, but who would pay nearly 40$ USD for a single 28pts models? They lost a bit of edge since every army got a flamer range boost in 9th, but they were one of the very few to be able to shoot out deep strike with their 10" range. Great little unit to fill out a list with!
Agree. Hive Guard need the TFC-treatment, though GW seems to mostly understand that going by the latter and the late adjustments to Rukkatrucks.
Of course, it'd be nice if the other Hive Guard gun that doesn't ignore LoS becomes playable. Being a more interactive piece with shorter range and, well, requiring LOS, it should be the default that Nid players go to 99.9999999% of the time they pick Hive Guard.
Jack Flask wrote: Maaaan, I know this isn't the release for it but when will GW finally make a Tyra-knight?
You mean a Heirodule?
I guess a plastic one would be nice.
I wouldn't consider a Heirodule at the level of a proper Knight personally. Both in stat and size it falls somewhere between an Armiger and a Questoris.
I'm thinking more something firmly Questoris or Castellan tier. Personally my vote would be for something like Mr_Pink's Dactylis and Dominatrix.
ZergSmasher wrote: I don't play Nids and am not planning on starting them anytime soon, so I have but one wish for them. 3 little words: Nerf. Hive. Guard.
That's automatic. As soon as SMA gets purged from the dex, Hyve guards get a big hit. The rumors also say that they are losing the no-LoS shooting.
I expect HG to lose the double shooting stratagem, but that alone is more than enough, the Impaler stat line alone is fairly mediocre.
The Single-minded Annihilation and its ability to double returns of any buff layered on the HG is just that good.
Losing indirect Line of Sight would require a complete overhaul of the unit concept and change Impalers into something fundamentally different.
Just look at the Shock Cannon HG, it would need to double the shots per cannon (so 2d3) just to be comparable to modern anti-tank units like Eradicators (very similar profile and the cost, actually) and that's the stronger of the two HG variants against vehicles.
Necronmaniac05 wrote: I broadly agree but the lack of a plastic Tyranid LOW still is a little frustrating.
We have plenty of big bugs, I’d just like them to have rules to back up the models.
We do not have a proper LOW unless they go back to old fluff where a Trygon was a one.
What is a lord of war to you? The trygon and tyrannofex are both big enough to get a look in at this, but having a "lord of war" forces the use of a SHA detachment, costing cp and loses the hive fleet trait on the model.
So if you're asking for a "big centrepiece gribbly" such as a plastic hierophant, cool, but it's a be careful what you wish for moment.
Necronmaniac05 wrote: I broadly agree but the lack of a plastic Tyranid LOW still is a little frustrating.
We have plenty of big bugs, I’d just like them to have rules to back up the models.
We do not have a proper LOW unless they go back to old fluff where a Trygon was a one.
What is a lord of war to you? The trygon and tyrannofex are both big enough to get a look in at this, but having a "lord of war" forces the use of a SHA detachment, costing cp and loses the hive fleet trait on the model.
So if you're asking for a "big centrepiece gribbly" such as a plastic hierophant, cool, but it's a be careful what you wish for moment.
Evidence: monolith and gork/morkanaught
Yeah, plastic Hierophant/Hierodules/Dominatrix/Hydraphant etc. is what I want. I agree that Tyrannofex/Trygon are big enough to count as one though. Still why not have the best of both worlds? Anyway I doubt that GW will pass for a chance to give us LOW without introducing a new model, and how many fans of nids would not like a one mentioned in plastic instead FW resin crap?
Only thing is that they’d probably feel obliged to change the old Epic design, which would suck.
Even worse is it would be because someone just “couldn’t believe” a lever arm mechanism like that could throw things hard enough. To which I say mantis shrimp!
Or at the very least, for the love of god, put em on 32mm bases.
^ This please, thnx GW.
Officialness be damned, I’ve been using base extenders on mine to bring them up to 32s. With their arms everywhere they were never getting into actual BTB contact anyway. And now they look better and are more stable.
Lictors, Deathleaper and The Red Terror would be awesome. I've been after an all-Lictor Kill Team for a while now but only had a spare metal kit lying around...
With regards to the weird sudden announcement of this codex between Eldar and Chaos, anyone else think that maybe this was due to release alongside the Octarius book originally but delayed for some reason?
Also, put me down for "really want to see the crusade rules".
princeyg wrote: With regards to the weird sudden announcement of this codex between Eldar and Chaos, anyone else think that maybe this was due to release alongside the Octarius book originally but delayed for some reason?
Speculation; if this Tyranid release consists of multiple kits as rumoured I'm wondering if it was originally pencilled in to be out with the Octarius books last year but ended up being pushed back due to production / logistics issues. That would explain why it seems to be strangely wedged in the middle of a Chaos-themed season. That's why I didn't believe the Valrak rumour when I first saw it.
I think Tyranids may have been originally set to be after Orks or BT, but early last year GW were plagued with supply delays for various releases and had a new AOS edition firmly scheduled for the summer. If they were unsure that everything could be produced / delivered time it made sense to delay the faction able to have interim rules, so they copy pasted Synaptic Links from the new codex into Rising Tide before it went it print.
This theory is more likely to be true if it turns out we're getting multiple new kits as rumoured.
For me, a reimagined dominatrix as supreme commander lord of war makes the most sense. Much like Szarekh for necrons you get a big centre piece that can use the supreme command detachment so is more useable. It fits the fluff given the dominatrixes role in the hive mind pecking order too.
Necronmaniac05 wrote: For me, a reimagined dominatrix as supreme commander lord of war makes the most sense. Much like Szarekh for necrons you get a big centre piece that can use the supreme command detachment so is more useable. It fits the fluff given the dominatrixes role in the hive mind pecking order too.
Doesn't quite fit 5th+ lore in which the Swarmlord is the supreme commander of the Tyranid swarm. (BTW, the Swarmlord definitely is getting the Supreme Commander keyword which should make including it into lists easier).
Still I would love a Dominatrix LoW, but it will need some lore rewriting to fit with modern Tyranids.
Necronmaniac05 wrote: For me, a reimagined dominatrix as supreme commander lord of war makes the most sense. Much like Szarekh for necrons you get a big centre piece that can use the supreme command detachment so is more useable. It fits the fluff given the dominatrixes role in the hive mind pecking order too.
Doesn't quite fit 5th+ lore in which the Swarmlord is the supreme commander of the Tyranid swarm. (BTW, the Swarmlord definitely is getting the Supreme Commander keyword which should make including it into lists easier).
Still I would love a Dominatrix LoW, but it will need some lore rewriting to fit with modern Tyranids.
Would be interesting in seeing the Swarmlord with a knight sized kit and stats to back that up. He can just have a helping of whatever the Avatar of Khain has been eating.
Dunno, but as much as that also sounds great( Jungles! Yes! My 'Nids are jungle inclined beasts ), its just a rumour and the current WHC articles are now going on about Corsairs and Tyranids.
SamusDrake wrote: Dunno, but as much as that also sounds great( Jungles! Yes! My 'Nids are jungle inclined beasts ), its just a rumour and the current WHC articles are now going on about Corsairs and Tyranids.
It's just referring to Yriel's old history with Tyranids as a hive fleet attacked Iyanden.
One of the KT videos from last week had "corsairs vs CSM box" in the link, so it's definitely Chaos.
Pipe dream to never happen: Lictor plastic box of 3, but one sprue is clear plastic.
But yeah Tyranids/Lictors versus Catachan, that's a pairing I'm surprised that have never been done before. I'd love to see that happen. Would be perfect to introduce new Lictors/Genestealers/Hormagaunts (maybe Termagants too) if anything. Maybe even Biovore/Pyrovore as the Artillery/Heavy weapon kinda deal, kinda like they put some Chaos Oblits in one of the Chaos box, before getting them into their Start Collecting. Of course I don't expect new sculpt for most of them, but at least one or two would be great (we already got Necron and Eldar as a xenos range refresh, plus decent expansion to the Orks, so I would see Tyranids more a focus in the next edition while we get the Tau treatment in 9th).
Or at the very least, for the love of god, put em on 32mm bases.
^ This please, thnx GW.
Officialness be damned, I’ve been using base extenders on mine to bring them up to 32s. With their arms everywhere they were never getting into actual BTB contact anyway. And now they look better and are more stable.
Yeah I started Tyras two years ago and put genestealers on 32mm bases from the get go. Best decision ever.
Mr_Rose wrote: New Termagants with more than one pose and not-sucky heads would be nice. Having weapon options back on top of that? Perfect.
Plastic Lictors, yes, also good.
Something old made new? Great.
Something completely unexpected like a new super-heavy? Okay I guess.
A full re-examination of the rules to make ‘nids terrifying up close again, the way T’au are terrifying at range? Outstanding.
Yeaaaah. I gave up all hope of getting back my fast and deadly swarm a looooooong time ago. My thousands of points of Hive Fleet Gorgon that I played at many an event back in the day is now boxed away. As in packed away, not stored in cases. I'm too attached to it to ever sell it off, but I very literally have no desire to ever play them again under the rules design concepts of the past few editions that I can only assume will continue. It's been *very* uninspired, mail-it-in work from the studio with Tyranid rules for years and years. Not saying any of this to be dramatic or whiny...it's just the honest truth of my relationship with the army, lol. It's just complete ambivalence at this point.
Only thing is that they’d probably feel obliged to change the old Epic design, which would suck.
Even worse is it would be because someone just “couldn’t believe” a lever arm mechanism like that could throw things hard enough. To which I say mantis shrimp!
In all fairness, the mantis shrimp's body structure is a lot more efficient than that of the epic Dactylis, which resembles a large trebuchet more than anything else. Unlike the mantis shrimp, it also has to deal a lot more with gravity.
I'm not a big nid guy, but I think the famous custom Dactylis conversion is probably the best direction GW could go for the model:
Spoiler:
Realism aside, it just looks cool, and is a nice evolution from the Biovore and Exocrine.
Only thing is that they’d probably feel obliged to change the old Epic design, which would suck.
Even worse is it would be because someone just “couldn’t believe” a lever arm mechanism like that could throw things hard enough. To which I say mantis shrimp!
In all fairness, the mantis shrimp's body structure is a lot more efficient than that of the epic Dactylis, which resembles a large trebuchet more than anything else. Unlike the mantis shrimp, it also has to deal a lot more with gravity.
I'm not a big nid guy, but I think the famous custom Dactylis conversion is probably the best direction GW could go for the model:
Spoiler:
Realism aside, it just looks cool, and is a nice evolution from the Biovore and Exocrine.
I absolutely love the "chitinous anti-tank gun gunshield" thing it's got going for.
It's a sweet conversion, but I feel that as a Dactylis it's just too much like a "bigger Exocrine".
I think there is a way they could take the Hive War "slug" style Dactylis and turn it into the more multi-limbed bug style thing we have now without losing the big glob-chucking arms that it had.
I think the translation from Hive War Exocrine to what we have in 40k was great (so much so that I am seriously torn on whether to build my third kit as a Haruspex, of which I have none, or a third Exocrine), so I think they could do it with a Dactylis.
Skywave wrote: With 15 wounds it can survive 1 Rail Gun shot at least!
I’m glad to see that.
As a way to make nids more survivable, I’d like to see them just have buckets of wounds. Rather than fancy tricks or gimmicky rules, you just need to pour fire into them to bring them down. Feels right for the faction.
Presumably the existing rules for fire twice and +1 to hit when stationary have been removed or changed.
Spoiler:
I expect it to still have a +1 (or maybe re-rolls) to hit when Remained Stationary, because that is part of the lore of the model.
Firing twice is gone, because otherwise that thing would be broken. Likely also has blast which is a nerf for when it gets caught in melee.
Overall a massive improvement in all fields maybe except against light infantry given that it will fire less shots.
Moreover the +1 to WS and BS hopefully means our monsters (or at least our melee) now have 3+ to hit as standard, similar to how Daemon Engines went from 4+ to 3+ (or you know, like our FW models did).
+3 to wounds also probably means we have similar increases of wounds for our other monsters, kinda worried on the Tyrannofex and Tervigon as that may mean they got pushed to 18 wounds and thus may no longer benefit from cover (to be fair, they are very big and bulky models). It also means we are unlikely to have defensive special rules and will have to rely on sheer stats for defense, but I guess that's why we have Crusher Stampede.
But the one thing I'm the most hopeful is that with fire twice gone, we can actually move and fire that thing without sacrificing 2/3 of its firepower, allowing it to be far more dynamic, and we can assume the same thing will apply to the Tyrannofex.
Presumably the existing rules for fire twice and +1 to hit when stationary have been removed or changed.
Spoiler:
I expect it to still have a +1 (or maybe re-rolls) to hit when Remained Stationary, because that is part of the lore of the model.
Firing twice is gone, because otherwise that thing would be broken. Likely also has blast which is a nerf for when it gets caught in melee.
Overall a massive improvement in all fields maybe except against light infantry given that it will fire less shots.
Moreover the +1 to WS and BS hopefully means our monsters (or at least our melee) now have 3+ to hit as standard, similar to how Daemon Engines went from 4+ to 3+ (or you know, like our FW models did).
+3 to wounds also probably means we have similar increases of wounds for our other monsters, kinda worried on the Tyrannofex and Tervigon as that may mean they got pushed to 18 wounds and thus may no longer benefit from cover (to be fair, they are very big and bulky models). It also means we are unlikely to have defensive special rules and will have to rely on sheer stats for defense, but I guess that's why we have Crusher Stampede.
But the one thing I'm the most hopeful is that with fire twice gone, we can actually move and fire that thing without sacrificing 2/3 of its firepower, allowing it to be far more dynamic, and we can assume the same thing will apply to the Tyrannofex.
I disliked the change for the daemon engines and I dislike the change here as well, unless the +1 for stationary is also gone. I like that not every army hits on a 3+, I like that being big doesn't = skilled. The game is based on the d6 and people seem to constantly want to be hitting things on a 3+ because otherwise it's not reliable enough/doesn't represent something being good at something, but it's just whittling down variance and options. The daemon engines were an interesting trade off (in theory) because it opened design options out for something that was either cheaper, or had potential to compensate the lower accuracy with higher burst potential. Instead they just got a 3+ because then they match the marines and to make them "better". What happens when everything hits on a 3+?
Tyranids already had 3+ in many units, so it doesn't make much sense for other dedicated ranged creatures to hit on a 4+ (Tyrannofexes mostly at this point) or for dedicated melee creatures to hit on a 4+ (Haruspexes and Hormagaunts).
I do expect our non-dedicated creatures to still hit on a 4+ (Termagants, gargoyles, non-buffed warriors, raveners, non-buffed Carnifexes) for shooting, or spore creatures to still hit on a 5+ (but will have that 'shoot at everything' rule that the Space Marine bunker has).
Speaking of Haruspexes, I'm annoyed we are so close yet still so far to seeing their profile, making us beg for it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: From the main Tyranid thread:
Automatically Appended Next Post: Loving the new venom cannon
Skywave wrote: With 15 wounds it can survive 1 Rail Gun shot at least!
Well, "survive" because then it's on 3 wounds and hits on 5+ and moves 5 inches, letting Tau player just ignore it. Or plink down to 0 with a single shot with the rest of OP gak they can now field. For a model that is likely to cost substantially more than Hammerhead? That's just kinda sad...
Nevelon wrote: As a way to make nids more survivable, I’d like to see them just have buckets of wounds. Rather than fancy tricks or gimmicky rules, you just need to pour fire into them to bring them down. Feels right for the faction.
And it layers nice with any gimmicks we do get...
The problem is, idiotic W2 squat decision pretty much broke the game. W12 Hive Tyrant has is effectively reduced to W6 by D2 spam that followed. Hell, W4 because Tau and co upped the inflation and now D3 is becoming more and more common on ridiculously small arms. With little to no save because AP grotesquely inflated too, especially on Xeno weapons. That's less durability than it had pretty much ever, doubly so with Tau just gunning them down at range while laughing at ++ saves.
And I like how Cheese'la Tau commander with glorified power fist can now effortlessly punch Swarmlord, supposedly one of the most deadly combatants in the 40K verse, to death. If Swarmlord even gets to melee and is not instantly vaporized by all the other OP crap the suit carries on the remaining 4 arms, all while costing less and being better at pretty much everything
So the Swarmlord have 9 attacks at S9, AP-4 and D3. Also went to 13W, T8 and 2+ save.
Not bad at all.
Regular Tyrant only got 5A though (sad hiss noise), hope that he gets more with Scythe and/or Sword (or other buff like current expansion granting D3 attacks).
Heavy Venom looks really great with those stats. Even the Stranglethorn is pretty great here!
Monstrous Scything Talon lost a point of damage though, that's sad.
Tyran wrote: Scything Talons are probably going to be our "do a lot of attacks" melee option.
I hope so, especially with multiple sets (so Trygon and Mawloc can benefit from have 3 sets). Also dual set is always cool-looking so if there's a bit more oomph to it, the better!
Skywave wrote: So the Swarmlord have 9 attacks at S9, AP-4 and D3. Also went to 13W, T8 and 2+ save.
Not bad at all.
Regular Tyrant only got 5A though (sad hiss noise), hope that he gets more with Scythe and/or Sword (or other buff like current expansion granting D3 attacks).
Heavy Venom looks really great with those stats. Even the Stranglethorn is pretty great here!
Monstrous Scything Talon lost a point of damage though, that's sad.
Who knows what special rules might make up for it. These are just the raw, get-you-by, stats.
I know the whole “wait until we have the whole picture” thing gets dragged out a lot, but right now we only have a tiny fragment of info.
Right now I’m optimistic. Would have liked to see more attacks on the tyrant, but they are psychers and leaders, not just pure murder bugs. And they should be able to cause some harm with those.
Tyran wrote: Scything Talons are probably going to be our "do a lot of attacks" melee option.
I also hope so, massive/monstrous scything talons getting sweeping profile is one of my longest wishes for Tyranids. I know the Nids are modeled to "wield" them in the dumbest way possible, but they are still called scything talons for a reason, and these ones are 3-5m long...
edit: The omission of devourers and deathspitters makes zero sense.
I’m glad they are calling out the flyrants feet as weapons in the pic. I was a little worried in the next codex we’d loose a weapon option for them as one of the slots is taken up by the wings.
Another change is that the heavy venom cannon and the stranglethorn cannon are now heavy weapons, something that is likely going to be reflected on the lesser, infantry versions.
What I'm surprised by is that the Tyrant/Swarmy got bumped to T8 (and Flyrant at T7 is fine, makes sens fluff wise too they'd be a bit lighter and give something to consider between both option beside points) and 2+ save.
Makes me think most, is not all monsters gonna get 2+ save and a bump to their toughness too (I'd take +2T on Trygon for T8 please, look at the size of the thing!).
Skywave wrote: What I'm surprised by is that the Tyrant/Swarmy got bumped to T8 (and Flyrant at T7 is fine, makes sens fluff wise too they'd be a bit lighter and give something to consider between both option beside points) and 2+ save.
So happy to see a more distinct difference between the two options than just moving faster for a few extra points. Tyrant Guard look so cool, would be great to carve out a role for them.
Voss wrote: Very much doubt we'll see T9.
That will be the desperate upgrade to the big marine tanks first.
Yeah I can't see T9 happening, hardly anything has it. I reckon the Tfex will get a couple of extra wounds and perhaps some special rule to make it tougher; like +1 to armour saves or some flavour of transhuman.
So no Devourers/Deathspitters on Tyrants seems pretty likely. That's a shame.
Tyran wrote: Kinda hoping for the Tyrannofex to get T9 now.
The Warlord Titan is T9, so I doubt that'll happen sadly. It should, of course, because things like the Warlord Titan should be Toughness 18, but still, GW introduced this 10+ characteristic scale for 8th and has so far been terrified of actually using it for anything outside of Strength, Wounds and occasionally Leadership.
Tyran wrote: I would be fine with the Trygon being a softer target if it comes with an increase in movement, it is a giant ravener after all.
I never understood why Raveners should be that fast. Unless they use their bodies as a coil springs they should be slower than any other creature of similar size and weight with legs. I guess it's a heritage of the not-thought over-so-well 3rd edition codex.
I'll add on to the Chorus that I don't think the Tyrannofex is getting T9. I could see more wounds though.
I'm okay with this being the toughness design choice for big bugs, if it's T8/2+. Diffrenates them quite a bit from -1 D and 5++ that's rolling around everywhere.
I'm curious How many bugs are going to get the upped toughness treatment.
Very unlikely we'll see t9 on the Tyranids. The game had only 3 models with t10 (Aquila strong points and fortress of redemption) and one model with t9 (warlord titan). And now they've dropped the fortress of redemption to t8.
Nevelon wrote: I’d rather our giant monsters had stats and points to match their looks.
Right now their game mechanics are just not doing justice to the look of the minis.
How may points of army is that gun killing in one shot? Not a small amount.
T6 is ridiculous tbh. Even more so on Trygons and Mawlocs when you consider the size of them. Ridiculous on Carnifexes which used to be one of the absolute toughest beasts in the game and now is one of our weakest.
Sasori wrote: I'll add on to the Chorus that I don't think the Tyrannofex is getting T9. I could see more wounds though.
I'm okay with this being the toughness design choice for big bugs, if it's T8/2+. Diffrenates them quite a bit from -1 D and 5++ that's rolling around everywhere.
I'm curious How many bugs are going to get the upped toughness treatment.
xttz wrote: Haruspex has the same statline as the new Exocrine, except it goes from the 4 attacks base to 5.
Grasping tongue changes from D3 to flat 3 damage
Ravenous maw changes from D3 to flat 2 damage
Claws change from D6 to D3+3 damage
Spoiler:
Thanks for that! Was a bit annoyed that we got the Exo and no pics of the Haruspex to be honest Between the two, the later needed a buff more so it's to get the pics!
The maw is currently doing D3 hit per attacks, so going flat 2 or 3 would be great. Just hope they get a better mechanic for the claws!
Tyran wrote: I would be fine with the Trygon being a softer target if it comes with an increase in movement, it is a giant ravener after all.
I never understood why Raveners should be that fast. Unless they use their bodies as a coil springs they should be slower than any other creature of similar size and weight with legs. I guess it's a heritage of the not-thought over-so-well 3rd edition codex.
Like many Tyranid organisms they have unexplained factors in their capabilities (IMO wise of GW as no explanation is generally better than a bad one). Nothing about their form suggests or explains how they might burrow so quickly, we can infer that there is some sci-fi biotrickery allowing that. Perhaps it boosts their speed above ground as well.
Sidenote; nothing stopping them from using arms for movement either, modeling such would just mean they don't fit on the base!
Well if you move via hovering legs would just be extra weight! You do have a point though, GW tends to make snake-bodied things really fast. Which is odd because it isn't an adaptation known or used for speed.
Welp. Seeing the Eldar previews has me hoping we get some teases of our own soon and some shenanigans to book.
Eldar Guardians with a 4+, melee Guardians getting the option for a 5++ and transhuman lite perma....and all guardians getting rerolls of 1 in objective range...?
At this point I hope we get shenanigans other than base toughness and save increases across our monsters.
Tyranids getting an armywide Transhuman would be hilarious but probably would make people explode in rage - even if it was something like 'as long as they're in Synapse range' - fluffy and fitting, showing the Hive Mind just pushing them on regardless of damage.
I'm getting a bad gut feeling though.
A horrible gut feeling that sees us end up the 6th ed Ork equivalent - where there was blatant power ramp...with the exception of Orks who were very sub par even compared to the older 6th ed books!
Considering Tyranids are currently winning tournaments thanks to all the layers of shenanigans from PA, Leviathan and Crusher Stampede, I find that a weird hope.
We already have plenty of shenanigans, what we actually need are decent stats so we do not rely on shenanigans so damn much.
Stevefamine wrote: Heres to hoping tyranids become more swarm than nidzilla
The absolute worst take I've seen so far.
It shouldn't be one or the other.
BOTH should be viable options and what you would want to aim for. If you want to take an army and hammer it into what -you- perceive it to be, to hell with the rest, then that's damn sloppy design.
Swarms, Mid-range Nids, Infiltrate/burrow nids and Nidzilla should all be viable and usable. Not one at the cost of all the others.
Stevefamine wrote: Heres to hoping tyranids become more swarm than nidzilla
The absolute worst take I've seen so far.
It shouldn't be one or the other.
BOTH should be viable options and what you would want to aim for. If you want to take an army and hammer it into what -you- perceive it to be, to hell with the rest, then that's damn sloppy design.
Swarms, Mid-range Nids, Infiltrate/burrow nids and Nidzilla should all be viable and usable. Not one at the cost of all the others.
This. A nid swarm, fluffwise isn't just hordes of gribblies, it's a mix of everything top to bottom.
Stevefamine wrote: Heres to hoping tyranids become more swarm than nidzilla
The absolute worst take I've seen so far.
It shouldn't be one or the other.
BOTH should be viable options and what you would want to aim for. If you want to take an army and hammer it into what -you- perceive it to be, to hell with the rest, then that's damn sloppy design.
Swarms, Mid-range Nids, Infiltrate/burrow nids and Nidzilla should all be viable and usable. Not one at the cost of all the others.
100%, and a big part of the appeal of nids is the ability to play these various playstyles. Only army in the game where you get tons of big monsters.
This is why I'm really hoping they get both the internal and external balance right. Internal balance has been a problem since I started the Army back in 5th, so I'm hoping they at least get a lost closer this time.
Stevefamine wrote: Heres to hoping tyranids become more swarm than nidzilla
The absolute worst take I've seen so far.
It shouldn't be one or the other.
BOTH should be viable options and what you would want to aim for. If you want to take an army and hammer it into what -you- perceive it to be, to hell with the rest, then that's damn sloppy design.
Swarms, Mid-range Nids, Infiltrate/burrow nids and Nidzilla should all be viable and usable. Not one at the cost of all the others.
100%, and a big part of the appeal of nids is the ability to play these various playstyles. Only army in the game where you get tons of big monsters.
This is why I'm really hoping they get both the internal and external balance right. Internal balance has been a problem since I started the Army back in 5th, so I'm hoping they at least get a lost closer this time.
Imo they should expand the Crusher stampede concept to favor whatever big monster is concerned, by Hive Fleets rules :
- meleefex/Haruspex in Behemoth
- Trigon/Mawloc in Jormungandr
- Toxicrene in Gorgon
- Exocrine/shootyfex in Kronos
etc.
It would be awesome to make certain big monsters much more threatening when playing a certain hive fleet.
By extension, making raveners better than warriors when playing jormungadr, and other little difference that would make each hive fleet much more unique.
100%, and a big part of the appeal of nids is the ability to play these various playstyles. Only army in the game where you get tons of big monsters.
This is why I'm really hoping they get both the internal and external balance right. Internal balance has been a problem since I started the Army back in 5th, so I'm hoping they at least get a lost closer this time.
I'm concerned that the existence of Crusher Stampede will make that tricky. Even if the codex has "perfect" internal balance between the various list archetypes then CS is going to swing it towards nidzilla.
Will be interesting to see what happens with the existing nid rules.
100%, and a big part of the appeal of nids is the ability to play these various playstyles. Only army in the game where you get tons of big monsters.
This is why I'm really hoping they get both the internal and external balance right. Internal balance has been a problem since I started the Army back in 5th, so I'm hoping they at least get a lost closer this time.
I'm concerned that the existence of Crusher Stampede will make that tricky. Even if the codex has "perfect" internal balance between the various list archetypes then CS is going to swing it towards nidzilla.
Will be interesting to see what happens with the existing nid rules.
They can always errata away crusher stampede or fix it. I would hope they are not basing the monsters balance on a single AOR.
That being said, it's quite possible it will be the most comp form of nids until it gets fixed, but as long as the actual codex is solid internally, that's fine with me at least.
Tyran wrote: We already have plenty of shenanigans, what we actually need are decent stats so we do not rely on shenanigans so damn much.
Hit the nail on the head. Being able to do well with Leviathan + Crusher Stampede + specific units makes the faction something of a one-trick pony.
I'm hoping the army is getting appropriate buffs to underperforming units while dialing back the shenanigans, to make a variety of builds viable without any particular ones overperforming.
I want better internal balance. It's been bad for ages, always with certain units/gimmicks being a near requirement. Obviously every army has that to some extent but I feel Nids have always really suffered by just how awful the army gets when stepping outside the optimum.
Stevefamine wrote: Heres to hoping tyranids become more swarm than nidzilla
I'd much rather see them do this to Orks. It's depressing that Ork armies have so few... y'know... Orks.
That’s gonna need a fundamental change to the core game in order to make big units viable. In both cases, I feel.
Tyranids are already 50% closer by being able to ignore morale - that's a massive detriment to the current Ork horde now.
Another issue is GW's insistence on inflating the cost of basic troops since late 8th / early 9th. Cultists & grots being 5ppm is the most obvious example, but it also affects things like gaunts and boyz. One solution I liked was to just have diminishing costs for horde units. So hypothetically you could have gaunts cost say 6ppm. But if you take over 15 or 20 in the unit they all become 5ppm instead, and perhaps there's a 4ppm tier too.
That adds a trade-off against blast weapons currently making MSU the auto-take option.
MSU is VERY heavily pushed in AoS right now as well.
Heck right now in AoS each unit is bought only at its minimum unit count. You then have "reinforcement" points which allow you to increase the number of models in a unit by "1 box" worth of models (in general). However at 2K points you only have 4 of those reinforcement points.
So suddenly you can only have, at most, 2 full units; assuming most units come in 10 model boxes and have 30 units to a full unit. Ergo 2 reinforcement points to reach 30 models.
It skews things heavily and whilst it has a bonus in that it makes middle-weight elite style units more viable since they are no longer having to compete purely against big infantry blocks; it has the other flipside of making the game more of a middle skirmish in appearance from what it was before. It also means that, esp in AoS, you are kind of encouraged to have lots of command models per boxed set you build. This can, to me, appear very silly when you've things like cavalry where there's perhaps 5 models to a set and of those 5, 3 are command models (Slaanesh is even worst, they have 4 to a set of 5).
That was fine when units game in 10-20 blocks; but in 5 unit blocks you suddenly have more commanders on the field than actual fighting troops. Visually its jarring. Though I do notice that newer model sets are reducing the command element.
I suspect banners and musicians will be things of the past, in time, in infantry sets; being replaced with likely heroes/leaders taking those roles.
At least if GW maintains this choice;
Stevefamine wrote: Heres to hoping tyranids become more swarm than nidzilla
The absolute worst take I've seen so far.
It shouldn't be one or the other.
BOTH should be viable options and what you would want to aim for. If you want to take an army and hammer it into what -you- perceive it to be, to hell with the rest, then that's damn sloppy design.
Swarms, Mid-range Nids, Infiltrate/burrow nids and Nidzilla should all be viable and usable. Not one at the cost of all the others.
100%, and a big part of the appeal of nids is the ability to play these various playstyles. Only army in the game where you get tons of big monsters.
This is why I'm really hoping they get both the internal and external balance right. Internal balance has been a problem since I started the Army back in 5th, so I'm hoping they at least get a lost closer this time.
Imo they should expand the Crusher stampede concept to favor whatever big monster is concerned, by Hive Fleets rules :
- meleefex/Haruspex in Behemoth
- Trigon/Mawloc in Jormungandr
- Toxicrene in Gorgon
- Exocrine/shootyfex in Kronos
etc.
It would be awesome to make certain big monsters much more threatening when playing a certain hive fleet.
By extension, making raveners better than warriors when playing jormungadr, and other little difference that would make each hive fleet much more unique.
Darkness above, absolutely not. You must be <blue> to use <unit X> effectively is the dumbest thing that 9th edition enables and focuses on. Its even more absurd for an army that focuses on rapid adaptation to overcome circumstances, rather than crippling themselves with overspecialization.
Its also an exceptionally weird response to someone enthusing about variable playstyles as a strength of the faction
Stevefamine wrote: Heres to hoping tyranids become more swarm than nidzilla
The absolute worst take I've seen so far.
It shouldn't be one or the other.
BOTH should be viable options and what you would want to aim for. If you want to take an army and hammer it into what -you- perceive it to be, to hell with the rest, then that's damn sloppy design.
Swarms, Mid-range Nids, Infiltrate/burrow nids and Nidzilla should all be viable and usable. Not one at the cost of all the others.
100%, and a big part of the appeal of nids is the ability to play these various playstyles. Only army in the game where you get tons of big monsters.
This is why I'm really hoping they get both the internal and external balance right. Internal balance has been a problem since I started the Army back in 5th, so I'm hoping they at least get a lost closer this time.
Imo they should expand the Crusher stampede concept to favor whatever big monster is concerned, by Hive Fleets rules :
- meleefex/Haruspex in Behemoth
- Trigon/Mawloc in Jormungandr
- Toxicrene in Gorgon
- Exocrine/shootyfex in Kronos
etc.
It would be awesome to make certain big monsters much more threatening when playing a certain hive fleet.
By extension, making raveners better than warriors when playing jormungadr, and other little difference that would make each hive fleet much more unique.
Darkness above, absolutely not. You must be <blue> to use <unit X> effectively is the dumbest thing that 9th edition enables and focuses on. Its even more absurd for an army that focuses on rapid adaptation to overcome circumstances, rather than crippling themselves with overspecialization.
Its also an exceptionally weird response to someone enthusing about variable playstyles as a strength of the faction
No, I get where he's coming from.
Wanting the viability of multiple builds....
But also having specific Hive Fleets granting bonuses to specific build archetype. So Jormungandr giving inherent bonuses and encouraging the 'Infiltrate/Borrow' AT of Raveners, Trygon, Genestealers etc. But I don't quite agree with filtering the monsters out like that entirely.
The idea of Hive Fleets favouring inherent archetype playstyles works to an extent. It certainly adds flavour to them. But it shouldn't be Playstyle X is only valid in Hive Fleet Y. That would be terrible.
The way I see things at the moment? We need general stat buffs....
So tougher monsters with better saves, our mid-range getting better saves as well would all be pretty solid. I do feel with how Transhuman is being spammed everywhere in the oddest ways (literally giving Transhuman Lite to Storm Guardians for bringing a force field generator? Whaaaaaa?) that adding something as an addition to Synapse could be interesting - and again, represent the whole horror aspect of Synapse just forcing nids forwards even as they literally start to fall apart..
I'm actually curious to see if our damage outputs are going to increase - the sheets for the Exocrine and the HVC on the Tyrant (and presumably Carnifex) show a significant increase and boon there. Plus the Bonesword looks to be a hell of a lot better (which might just make Twin Bonesword Slayer Tyrants even more terrifying as assassins).
I do feel that Crushing Claws are a bit meh, in part because the units that can take them don't for the most part cause they drop so hard in actually hitting anything. (50% to 33% in most cases) - so I'll be curious if new datasheets have information about them as it seems they did have a very recent reboxing in advance - hopefully during this week I'll get my awaited order and be able to shed some light on the Tyranid Warriors and Harpy/Crone to see if there's a new sheet in there...
Stevefamine wrote: Heres to hoping tyranids become more swarm than nidzilla
I'd much rather see them do this to Orks. It's depressing that Ork armies have so few... y'know... Orks.
That’s gonna need a fundamental change to the core game in order to make big units viable. In both cases, I feel.
Tyranids are already 50% closer by being able to ignore morale - that's a massive detriment to the current Ork horde now.
Another issue is GW's insistence on inflating the cost of basic troops since late 8th / early 9th. Cultists & grots being 5ppm is the most obvious example, but it also affects things like gaunts and boyz. One solution I liked was to just have diminishing costs for horde units. So hypothetically you could have gaunts cost say 6ppm. But if you take over 15 or 20 in the unit they all become 5ppm instead, and perhaps there's a 4ppm tier too.
That adds a trade-off against blast weapons currently making MSU the auto-take option.
Tyranids also have command phase buffs and psychic powers that synergize well with big blocks of troops. Orks do not.
It skews things heavily and whilst it has a bonus in that it makes middle-weight elite style units more viable since they are no longer having to compete purely against big infantry blocks; it has the other flipside of making the game more of a middle skirmish in appearance from what it was before. It also means that, esp in AoS, you are kind of encouraged to have lots of command models per boxed set you build. This can, to me, appear very silly when you've things like cavalry where there's perhaps 5 models to a set and of those 5, 3 are command models (Slaanesh is even worst, they have 4 to a set of 5).
That has zero impact. Only thing you are encouraged is more unit leaders. Banners, musicians etc you should build max regardless are you minimum or maximum size. You have 1 per 5 and unit is 10 to 30? You build 2 if you are 10, you build 5 if you are 30. Either way you go for maximum.
It would be awesome to make certain big monsters much more threatening when playing a certain hive fleet.
By extension, making raveners better than warriors when playing jormungadr, and other little difference that would make each hive fleet much more unique.
That's basically what 40katm is and results in a) broken as hell game b) unfluffy armies.
You really want to make balance and variety even WORSE? ROFLMAO.
It would be awesome to make certain big monsters much more threatening when playing a certain hive fleet.
By extension, making raveners better than warriors when playing jormungadr, and other little difference that would make each hive fleet much more unique.
That's basically what 40katm is and results in a) broken as hell game b) unfluffy armies.
You really want to make balance and variety even WORSE? ROFLMAO.
...How would giving each Hive Fleet bonuses to specific monsters reduce fluffiness and variety? You appear to have found the two criticisms that work least effectively against this suggestion, then chosen to use them both in your argument.
It skews things heavily and whilst it has a bonus in that it makes middle-weight elite style units more viable since they are no longer having to compete purely against big infantry blocks; it has the other flipside of making the game more of a middle skirmish in appearance from what it was before. It also means that, esp in AoS, you are kind of encouraged to have lots of command models per boxed set you build. This can, to me, appear very silly when you've things like cavalry where there's perhaps 5 models to a set and of those 5, 3 are command models (Slaanesh is even worst, they have 4 to a set of 5).
That has zero impact. Only thing you are encouraged is more unit leaders. Banners, musicians etc you should build max regardless are you minimum or maximum size. You have 1 per 5 and unit is 10 to 30? You build 2 if you are 10, you build 5 if you are 30. Either way you go for maximum.
Yes and no. See banners and musicians don't actually give multiple bonuses for having multiple in the same unit. The only bonus you have having more than one is that if one is killed you don't lose the bonus of having them until they are all killed. However visually it looks totally stupid to me to have a block of infantry where over half are "command" style models with musical instruments, banners and such. It just looks wrong. So I tend to stick to the Old World style of 1 command squad per "unit". Visually it looks right and honestly barring a few sniper abilities, most of the time you control what models are removed from the unit when you take damage so you can just leave banners/musicians for last.
I honestly dislike GW's entire attitude on this front. I can also tell that they are changing it because a lot of newer models (not all) are steadily dropping those kind of support unit. Banners and musicians are steadily vanishing, not totally but steadily from most units. The result is that I suspect, as said, in the future AoS won't have them as part of units, but will instead have them as leader type models. With units having other kinds of support model that "blend" into them more visually.
Eg the new Blissbarbs for Slaanesh don't have musicians or banners, but they have a guy with a magical ammo container. He appears once every X models and blends in, esp as you've 9 regular troops to 1 of him in the first block and then 1 in 10 for any reinforcements (since you have 1 leader in the first block but have no further leaders if you reinforce a unit)
Flipsiders wrote: ...How would giving each Hive Fleet bonuses to specific monsters reduce fluffiness and variety? You appear to have found the two criticisms that work least effectively against this suggestion, then chosen to use them both in your argument.
The problem is WAAAC types cherrypick one 'best' Fleet, then spam the monster it brings. Which ends up with nothing but say Behemoth Zoanthropes on the tables for the whole edition. Which is not really fluffy (or fun to face if they are made OP by this).
IMO better way to do it would be to give different Fleets different troop options if you have X warlord, like in AoS (or 40K 5th edition, but alas, taking cues from the best written and balanced set of Codexes ever seems to be banned by GW for 4 editions now)...
Flipsiders wrote: ...How would giving each Hive Fleet bonuses to specific monsters reduce fluffiness and variety? You appear to have found the two criticisms that work least effectively against this suggestion, then chosen to use them both in your argument.
The fluff tells you that Tyranids are masters of adaptation and reform their armies to fight new threats, and yet every Kronos army is going to be shooty, every Hydra army is going to be a horde, every Behemoth army is going to be melee, and so on. Having creature-specific buffs exacerbates this problem- if Jormungandr gets a special bonus to Raveners, either Jormungandr Raveners will overperform or everyone else's Raveners will underperform, and either way you'll probably only see Raveners in a Jormungandr army.
These synergies pigeonhole you into a narrow set of options and are detrimental to game balance. The main reason I usually play Kraken or Leviathan is to be able to take whatever units I want without being indirectly penalized by not maximizing synergies.
Hive fleet bonus's should be thematically powerful traits that are based on the fluff.
Kronos is supposed to be the anti-chaos fleet, but only got buffs to shooting, a WL trait that causes double perils, and a relic gun that ignores invuns (but only has -1ap).
The relic is the only one that is actually anti-deamon and its the one that noone uses.
I would personally change kronos alot going by the fluff. Changing the WL trait to a 2 part ability like: Any units summoned to the battlefield with reserve points must be placed outside of 12" from any kronos unit within synapse range of this WL, and the Shadows of the warp ability has its range increased by 12" on this model.
Trait can continue to be reroll hit rolls if the model did not move and mabey -1 to be charged if standing in light cover?
Relic can still ignore invuns, but needs to get 2d6 shots that count infantry units as though they were 5 models larger for blast purposes.
Tyran wrote: Saying 5th edition were the best written and balanced set of Codexes ever in a Tyranid thread is certainly a way to start a bar fight.
It was, though. Yes, Kelly's and Cruddace books sucked, but I have said that a zillion times now about their output so I gave it a rest this time
Eihnlazer wrote: I would personally change kronos alot going by the fluff. Changing the WL trait to a 2 part ability like: Any units summoned to the battlefield with reserve points must be placed outside of 12" from any kronos unit within synapse range of this WL, and the Shadows of the warp ability has its range increased by 12" on this model.
Eh, any anti-X rules are just bad. Either they make subfaction OP against given army X or the whole faction outside of the bonus is subpar against it. The traits should be as generic as possible, something preventing deep strikes yes, anti-summoning no. Bonus to deny range yes, bonus to deny range against daemons no, to sum it up briefly, IMO.
Tyran wrote: Saying 5th edition were the best written and balanced set of Codexes ever in a Tyranid thread is certainly a way to start a bar fight.
It was, though. Yes, Kelly's and Cruddace books sucked, but I have said that a zillion times now about their output so I gave it a rest this time
And Ward, and those three together make at least like half of the 5th edition books.
All of them, in fact. Those three wrote 100% of the codexes released during 5th.
Unless we're talking about the codexes that were active during 5th (which would include 3rd, and 4th edition codexes as well), but that kind of makes it sound like the balanced codexes was the ones not yet given the 5th ed. treatment...
For the record I like a lot of the 5th codexes. But I do consider them to be pretty uneven, and I'm not sure if I agree with them being balanced. Could be wrong though!
Either way the coming Nids-changes seems solid and interesting!
Tyran wrote: Saying 5th edition were the best written and balanced set of Codexes ever in a Tyranid thread is certainly a way to start a bar fight.
It was, though. Yes, Kelly's and Cruddace books sucked, but I have said that a zillion times now about their output so I gave it a rest this time
And Ward, and those three together make at least like half of the 5th edition books.
And Thorpe. Never forget Thorpe.
Kelly is worse than all of them and I will die on this hill
Eh, this isn't the thread for that particular argument. But I'd say any codex that can still cause seething anger in the players of the faction 14 years after its release is a hard thing to beat.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Eh, this isn't the thread for that particular argument. But I'd say any codex that can still cause seething anger in the players of the faction 14 years after its release is a hard thing to beat.
Tyran wrote: Saying 5th edition were the best written and balanced set of Codexes ever in a Tyranid thread is certainly a way to start a bar fight.
It was, though. Yes, Kelly's and Cruddace books sucked, but I have said that a zillion times now about their output so I gave it a rest this time
And Ward, and those three together make at least like half of the 5th edition books.
And Thorpe. Never forget Thorpe.
Kelly is worse than all of them and I will die on this hill
Eh, this isn't the thread for that particular argument. But I'd say any codex that can still cause seething anger in the players of the faction 14 years after its release is a hard thing to beat.
Sorry, but if someone is feeling seething anger over a codex, especially after a decade, the problem isn't with the codex.
Tyran wrote: Saying 5th edition were the best written and balanced set of Codexes ever in a Tyranid thread is certainly a way to start a bar fight.
It was, though. Yes, Kelly's and Cruddace books sucked, but I have said that a zillion times now about their output so I gave it a rest this time
And Ward, and those three together make at least like half of the 5th edition books.
And Thorpe. Never forget Thorpe.
Kelly is worse than all of them and I will die on this hill
Eh, this isn't the thread for that particular argument. But I'd say any codex that can still cause seething anger in the players of the faction 14 years after its release is a hard thing to beat.
Sorry, but if someone is feeling seething anger over a codex, especially after a decade, the problem isn't with the codex.
Well, let's put it another way. This person could have spent, I dunno, thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of time that are negatively impacted or even invalidated by said codex. Think there's no reason to seethe then? I know I know, it's toy soldiers, but you don't get to shut down somebody's negative feelings about something.
ETA: sorry for the off topic rant. I hope that little reddit teaser is true, it sounds awesome. Nids have never had enough attacks outside of Genestealers.
Lol You like attacks? You get LOTS of attacks You like hitting better? You get to hit better
You better not have made nothing but devil gaunts... Cause you might as well throw them in the bin and take fleshborers
Hope you also put impalers on your hive guard...
Although the shock is amazing against vehicles
This makes me theorize we are going back to the 4th edition termagant paradigm of weapons being sidegrades of each other, rather than the current one of devourers blatantly dominating all the others.
This makes me theorize we are going back to the 4th edition termagant paradigm of weapons being sidegrades of each other, rather than the current one of devourers blatantly dominating all the others.
That's pretty generally what they've been doing since the start of 9th. Best example is making all Intercessor options cost the same points and buffing Auto & Stalker bolt rifles.
We might see something like:
Fleshborer 12" Pistol 1 S4 AP -2
Devourer 12" Assault 2 S4 AP 0
As usual the "best" option might come down to which hive fleet trait or other rules are available to combo with.
Lol You like attacks? You get LOTS of attacks You like hitting better? You get to hit better
You better not have made nothing but devil gaunts... Cause you might as well throw them in the bin and take fleshborers
Hope you also put impalers on your hive guard...
Although the shock is amazing against vehicles
This makes me theorize we are going back to the 4th edition termagant paradigm of weapons being sidegrades of each other, rather than the current one of devourers blatantly dominating all the others.
That isn't really an accurate description of the 4th edition weapon options paradigm, though.
Spinefists were more of a default back then than devourers are now.
In most cases gaunts were a troop tax selection, their damage output was useless, so everybody built spinefists to save points.
Devourers were passable in certain matchups, but you mostly needed foreknowledge of your opponent/list tailoring for it to make sense.
Fleshborers were mathematically subpar in so many cases that they weren't worth the extra point compared to a spinefist.
Tyran wrote: This makes me theorize we are going back to the 4th edition termagant paradigm of weapons being sidegrades of each other, rather than the current one of devourers blatantly dominating all the others.
Maybe Termagant weapons will be amalgamated into a single statline, and you'll use strats to differentiate them.
Tyran wrote: This makes me theorize we are going back to the 4th edition termagant paradigm of weapons being sidegrades of each other, rather than the current one of devourers blatantly dominating all the others.
Maybe Termagant weapons will be amalgamated into a single statline, and you'll use strats to differentiate them.
Hey now, you can't say things like this. SpikeyBits will run with it.
xttz wrote: That's pretty generally what they've been doing since the start of 9th. Best example is making all Intercessor options cost the same points and buffing Auto & Stalker bolt rifles.
We might see something like:
Fleshborer 12" Pistol 1 S4 AP -2
Devourer 12" Assault 2 S4 AP 0
As usual the "best" option might come down to which hive fleet trait or other rules are available to combo with.
So- Fleshborers got you higher S, Devourers got you more shots, Spinefists got you a bit of AP.
But I'm not convinced that GW will do something like that again, simply because Spinefists and Devourers are also weapon options for Warriors and Raveners. As it stands Spinefists can work for both as the number of shots they get is based on the creature carrying them, but downgrading Devourers to make them a sidegrade to Fleshborers would render them utterly worthless on anything bigger than a Gaunt.
Unless, of course, GW splits up the weapon profiles to create a Devourer profile for Gaunts and another for the mid-sized creatures. Doesn't seem that farfetched, considering it's what they did for monstrous creature weapons (ie the Devourers and Deathspitters that look exactly like their Warrior equivalents, but are more powerful).
catbarf wrote: But I'm not convinced that GW will do something like that again, simply because Spinefists and Devourers are also weapon options for Warriors and Raveners.
*cough* Chosen *cough* Chaos Terminators *cough*
"Termagants/Tyranid Warriors/Ravners are equipped with 'Tyranid Bio-Weapons' that may fire using one of two profiles during the shooting phase..."
And yes, they could create new weapon version of existing things. Sometimes it comes across as lazy (the heavy venom cannon!) and other times they come up with something that sounds cool and seems like a logical extension of what came before (the stranglethorn cannon).
Part of the reason I want new Raveners models is that I hate how they have the same ranged weapons as Warriors but somehow they are completely inside their bodies when Warriors need to carry sizeable ones. If i remember first Raveners had to carry their devourers etc. I would like them to either have their ranged options removed or made visible or changed to something else like 'thorax bio hive'' etc. which would have much shorter range etc. than Warrior weapons.
Shadow Walker wrote: Part of the reason I want new Raveners models is that I hate how they have the same ranged weapons as Warriors but somehow they are completely inside their bodies when Warriors need to carry sizeable ones. If i remember first Raveners had to carry their devourers etc. I would like them to either have their ranged options removed or made visible or changed to something else like 'thorax bio hive'' etc. which would have much shorter range etc. than Warrior weapons.
Reason number one I dislike weapons on hands designs on Nids... Looks awful and not something I imagine a constant evolving biocreature to have. The fact some look like pistols is even worse.
Integrated with body and design should be the way to go.
Shadow Walker wrote: Part of the reason I want new Raveners models is that I hate how they have the same ranged weapons as Warriors but somehow they are completely inside their bodies when Warriors need to carry sizeable ones. If i remember first Raveners had to carry their devourers etc. I would like them to either have their ranged options removed or made visible or changed to something else like 'thorax bio hive'' etc. which would have much shorter range etc. than Warrior weapons.
Reason number one I dislike weapons on hands designs on Nids... Looks awful and not something I imagine a constant evolving biocreature to have. The fact some look like pistols is even worse.
Integrated with body and design should be the way to go.
You misunderstood me. I am not against integrated weapons. I am against integrated weapons pretending to be the very same weapons that are not integrated.
Shadow Walker wrote: Part of the reason I want new Raveners models is that I hate how they have the same ranged weapons as Warriors but somehow they are completely inside their bodies when Warriors need to carry sizeable ones. If i remember first Raveners had to carry their devourers etc. I would like them to either have their ranged options removed or made visible or changed to something else like 'thorax bio hive'' etc. which would have much shorter range etc. than Warrior weapons.
Reason number one I dislike weapons on hands designs on Nids... Looks awful and not something I imagine a constant evolving biocreature to have. The fact some look like pistols is even worse.
Integrated with body and design should be the way to go.
You misunderstood me. I am not against integrated weapons. I am against integrated weapons pretending to be the very same weapons that are not integrated.
Oh, don't worry, they'll just make them all have one "Ravener Torso Weapon" statline because Jervis' kids can't tell the visual clues apart for each type.
Shadow Walker wrote: Part of the reason I want new Raveners models is that I hate how they have the same ranged weapons as Warriors but somehow they are completely inside their bodies when Warriors need to carry sizeable ones. If i remember first Raveners had to carry their devourers etc. I would like them to either have their ranged options removed or made visible or changed to something else like 'thorax bio hive'' etc. which would have much shorter range etc. than Warrior weapons.
Reason number one I dislike weapons on hands designs on Nids... Looks awful and not something I imagine a constant evolving biocreature to have. The fact some look like pistols is even worse.
Integrated with body and design should be the way to go.
You misunderstood me. I am not against integrated weapons. I am against integrated weapons pretending to be the very same weapons that are not integrated.
Oh, don't worry, they'll just make them all have one "Ravener Torso Weapon" statline because Jervis' kids can't tell the visual clues apart for each type.
Yeah, that is very possible. Especially after Harlequins weapons change. There will be only 2 stats - 1 for Tyranid ranged biomorphs and 1 forTyranid close combat biomorphs so the game could be even more awesome than now
The thing about Jervisation (is that the correct term?) is that it is the new phase of GW's box only rules.
Thankfully for us, most of our kits come with all the weapons we need, the only major exception being the Hive Tyrant kit (which does mean we may lose some weapons there).
Both Raveners and Termagants come with all weapons in the kit, so I doubt we will see Jervisation.
Shadow Walker wrote: Part of the reason I want new Raveners models is that I hate how they have the same ranged weapons as Warriors but somehow they are completely inside their bodies when Warriors need to carry sizeable ones. If i remember first Raveners had to carry their devourers etc. I would like them to either have their ranged options removed or made visible or changed to something else like 'thorax bio hive'' etc. which would have much shorter range etc. than Warrior weapons.
Reason number one I dislike weapons on hands designs on Nids... Looks awful and not something I imagine a constant evolving biocreature to have. The fact some look like pistols is even worse.
Integrated with body and design should be the way to go.
You misunderstood me. I am not against integrated weapons. I am against integrated weapons pretending to be the very same weapons that are not integrated.
Oh, don't worry, they'll just make them all have one "Ravener Torso Weapon" statline because Jervis' kids can't tell the visual clues apart for each type.
Either that or you get hit with the Plague Marine datasheet. GW is either/or
Either that or you get hit with the Plague Marine datasheet. GW is either/or
Yeah, you're giving them too much credit. They'll do 'tyranid weapons' for one thing, free choice of weapons for warriors (because those are all in the box), and the limited jigsaw for something else.
Either that or you get hit with the Plague Marine datasheet. GW is either/or
Yeah, you're giving them too much credit. They'll do 'tyranid weapons' for one thing, free choice of weapons for warriors (because those are all in the box), and the limited jigsaw for something else.
Tyran wrote: The thing about Jervisation (is that the correct term?)
Very close:
Jervis [Jer-viss] Jer-vised, Jer-vis-i-fy, Jer-vis-i-fied, Jer-vis-i-fi-ca-tion
–verb 1. to remove options inherent in a list. // 2. to reduce existing sub-lists into a single list. // 3. To triple (or more) the amount of Special Characters in a Codex. // 4. To take away. // 5. To give what isn't wanted nor needed.
Origin: Mid-1980's, England, Nottingham
Synonyms: Bland, Blandify, Codex: Dark Angels (4th Edition)
Antonyms: Codex: Chaos Space Marines (3.5 Edition)
Personally i prefer the blending of melee weapon types. Both for speed but also because it means i can convert whatever grubbly weapon monstrosity i wish and it is legal in rules with no count as ambiguity.
My issue is that it appears to be melee only whereas range still has the fidelity. This seems an inherent contradiction.
Sureshot05 wrote: Personally i prefer the blending of melee weapon types. Both for speed but also because it means i can convert whatever grubbly weapon monstrosity i wish and it is legal in rules with no count as ambiguity.
My issue is that it appears to be melee only whereas range still has the fidelity. This seems an inherent contradiction.
I agree on both accounts(unification and the weird contradiction of it).
Personally I like the unification of many weapon stats(at least where there is abundance of them) is that it means I can model for the rule of cool without having to accept the fact that what I found was cool is now utter garbage and will be for the next 2-3 editions.
I just wish they had done unification on the Death Guard melee weapons.
From Tyranids Discord - allegedly confirmed (not written) by a verified playtester
New rumour-leaks.
Synaptic Links are changing to once per game effects that work on every unit within 6" of a Synapse Unit.
- Zoanthropes give 4++ to Synapse and 5++ to non-Synapse.
- All other units have changed Links.
A lot of buffs trigger off the Synapse keyword (Warriors are beasts, apparently)
Unit Changes:
Swarmlord - Loses Hive Commander and 3++. Gains Chapter Master Re-rolls and gives a unit Obsec.
Hive Tyrant - Captain Re-rolls aura.
Tervigon - +1 to hit for Termagants in range (don't know what). If there is a 15+ model Termagant unit within 1" of her she is untargetable.
Termagants - Devourers are **** now. Fleshborers go to Assault 1 S5 AP1 D1
Tyranid Warriors - S5/T5 base. Access to -1D strat in all phases. Can get to A4 S8 AP2 D2.
Hive Fleet Changes:
Leviathan - 1-2 TransNid on non-synapse creatures. 1-3 TransNid on synapse creatures.
Kronos - extra AP at half range
Gorgon gets some variety of Poison weapons.
Named Hive Fleets get 1-2 traits +1 customisable trait from a list.
Gargoyles to Troops
Genestealers to Elites
Rippers to Fast Attack
Leviathan far and away the best pick, apparently.
Sureshot05 wrote: Personally i prefer the blending of melee weapon types. Both for speed but also because it means i can convert whatever grubbly weapon monstrosity i wish and it is legal in rules with no count as ambiguity.
My issue is that it appears to be melee only whereas range still has the fidelity. This seems an inherent contradiction.
I'll be honest. I have no problems giving units a 'combined' profile like this. It's a nice blanket rule that compensates for kits not having all the options, older miniatures existing etc.
But it needs to be consistent. All or nothing, as it were.
The problem we have with this is....well, quite simply the fact there are armies (GSC) where 3 different units can have the EXACT same weapon options but different profiles! And that's a problem. If you want to simplify things then WYSIWYG is an incredibly important thing to consider here. Oversimplifying and ignoring that is contradictory....
If Unit X can be armed with specific weapons then Unit Y, also armed with the exact same weapons should NOT be given a blanket profile.
Leviathan - 1-2 TransNid on non-synapse creatures. 1-3 TransNid on synapse creatures.
.
....That might just be good enough to tempt away from Crusher Stampede. I mean, Crusher Stampede lists can still be played as normal Fleet lists, just there wasn't any bonuses worth a damn compared but that...that is tasty with a Warrior troop core.
I always felt rippers as troops that didn't count towards force org requirements was a good way to go.
Gargoyles as troops... I miss when warlord choice could change forge org slots. A flyrant with gargoyle troops works for me, but as generic, eh. I can see the appeal though.
Stealers definitely make sense to me as elites more than troops.
Tyran wrote: I can see Genestealers being moved to Elites.
Lore wise, Genestealers have never been the meat of Tyranid swarms.
But Rippers as fast attack doesn't make much sense IMHO.
If they're keeping the deep strike ability then I think it kinda does. With the Parasite of Mortrex looking likely to happen I wonder if we'll see some creative use of Ripper swarms spawning around enemy units
Spoiler:
and perhaps a new model in the kit, like how spore mines come with Sporocysts
.
Meanwhile Gargoyles are the classic Tyranid horde unit for swamping objectives. Having a highly mobile (and presumably morale-immune) Troop/obsec unit looks like fun.
Not Beasts as in unit type but as in absolute beasts for what they are getting.
Between Leviathan's TransNid on Synapse, access to a -1 D strat, buffed Strength and Toughness, buffed Boneswords and the way Synapse apparently is key for things now the Warrior went from being an okay midline to a beast of a unit.
Gargoyles as troops... I miss when warlord choice could change forge org slots. A flyrant with gargoyle troops works for me, but as generic, eh. I can see the appeal though.
Same, to be honest. I wonder why they did away with it.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I always felt rippers as troops that didn't count towards force org requirements was a good way to go.
Gargoyles as troops... I miss when warlord choice could change forge org slots. A flyrant with gargoyle troops works for me, but as generic, eh. I can see the appeal though.
Stealers definitely make sense to me as elites more than troops.
Theres another rumour block which says gargs aren't troops but can move there with a flyrant as warlord. Also Shrikes are coming as a kit with lots of weapon options like warriors- so flying circus is back if these rumours hold up..
Rippers as fast attack make sense if they have deep strike as standard.
Most of this I can't really understand as I haven't played since 5th but there does seem to be a bit of flavour from 2nd/3rd/4th editions in there. Fleshborers always had higher strength than Devs so it was more of a choice and they are the classic Gant weapon so they need a reason to be taken.
silverstu wrote: Fleshborers always had higher strength than Devs so it was more of a choice and they are the classic Gant weapon so they need a reason to be taken.
In my view, the reason to take them is because they're free instead increasing the cost of the model by 40%. In my son's opinion, it was so that he'd have something to spawn out of the Tervigon in Narrative Play games.
Theres another rumour block which says gargs aren't troops but can move there with a flyrant as warlord. Also Shrikes are coming as a kit with lots of weapon options like warriors- so flying circus is back if these rumours hold up..
That set of rumours came from 4chan and is about as reliable as you'd expect. It also directly contradicts info from sources with proven track records on other codexes like Tau/Eldar.
Theres another rumour block which says gargs aren't troops but can move there with a flyrant as warlord. Also Shrikes are coming as a kit with lots of weapon options like warriors- so flying circus is back if these rumours hold up..
That set of rumours came from 4chan and is about as reliable as you'd expect. It also directly contradicts info from sources with proven track records on other codexes like Tau/Eldar.
Oh yeah, didn't see that initially. Shame as I'dlove a shrike kit. That Reddit poster has confirmed the first leak is more or less true [the one from the discord chat]. The model is the parasite of Mortrex and the fleshborers are str4 but have a Strat to give them +1str. Hasn't said anything else yet. I'm guessing Eldar release will be previewed soon and then there will be more aid leaks..
There's been a couple of corrections to the original list, plus a few extra details:
xttz wrote: From Tyranids Discord - allegedly confirmed (not written) by a verified playtester
New rumour-leaks.
Synaptic Links are changing to once per game effects that work on every unit within 6" of a Synapse Unit.
- Zoanthropes give 4++ to Synapse and 5++ to non-Synapse. - Zoanthropes give 4++ to MONSTER and 5++ to non-MONSTER Tervigon gives +2" move for its Synaptic Link
- All other units have changed Links.
A lot of buffs trigger off the Synapse keyword (Warriors are beasts, apparently)
Unit Changes:
Swarmlord - Loses Hive Commander and 3++. Gains Chapter Master Re-rolls and gives a unit Obsec.
Hive Tyrant - Captain Re-rolls aura.
Tervigon - +1 to hit for Termagants in range (don't know what). If there is a 15+ model Termagant unit within 1" of her she is untargetable.
Termagants - Devourers are **** now.
Fleshborers go to 18" Assault 1 S5 AP1 D1 Another source claims: Fleshborers go to 18" Assault 1 S4 AP1 D1, can be +1S with a strat
Tyranid Warriors - S5/T5 base. Access to -1D strat in all phases. Can get to A4 S8 AP2 D2.
Hive Fleet Changes:
Leviathan - 1-2 TransNid on non-synapse creatures. 1-3 TransNid on synapse creatures.
Kronos - extra AP at half range
Gorgon gets some variety of Poison weapons.
Named Hive Fleets get 1-2 traits +1 customisable trait from a list.
Gargoyles to Troops
Genestealers to Elites
Rippers to Fast Attack
Trygon Prime to HQ Mawloc to Fast Attack
Trygon to Fast Attack
Hive Guard to Heavy Support
DarkStarSabre wrote: So, with Aeldari going up for pre-order next week, think we'll FINALLY start getting official teases and previews?
Most likely starting point in the process is a Monday article or two showing off the new Nid character / new gaunts if they exist. Then they'll start slowly ramping up rules details over a few weeks.
I still have my fingers crossed for early April release now we're apparently starting to see people leaking rules. Recent codexes have been sent out to the usual folks 4-6 weeks before a release.
DarkStarSabre wrote: So, with Aeldari going up for pre-order next week, think we'll FINALLY start getting official teases and previews?
As is GW didn't already pull a real dick move a couple of weeks back just casually mentioning we were next and saying nothing more!
You might be in for a bit longer of a wait than you think, because the wording was not "Tyranids are next" but "Tyranids are the next Xenos army".
"This isn’t just an exciting time for Aeldari, but for all Warhammer 40,000 xenos players – after the craftworlds touch down, there’s something gribbly and chitinous coming. We don’t want to say too much right now, but there are lots of them, they’ve come a long way, and they’re VERY hungry. For biomass. Okay, you forced it out of us – it’s the Tyranids."
We also have Adepticon about a month away, so I wouldn't expect any huge reveals until then.
Unless the nids only get one model, and then maybe it'll be shown off at a Monday preview.
We're also due for a supposedly decent sized Chaos release, and we've already had a chaos v eldar boxset, and still have a chaos v eldar kill team to debut.
I fear a dramatic over-balancing is coming for Hive Guard.
GW balance things with massive pendulum swings of the nerf bat? Why would you think they would do something like that? Besides their established track record of doing exactly that.
Prime link is Exploding 6s on shooting if the target is within 24", Warrior's link is exploding 6s on combat
Maleceptor: can make ranged attacks while doing an action without the action failing. Can do actions even if they advanced or fell back, can make psychic action and manifest powers
GS get a deployment infiltrate now.
Lictor gets the sabator targeting rule (-1 to hit, cannot be targeted while benefitting from cover and more than 12" away, 5++)
the other really cool thing about the Tervigon... that you get a free 10 man unit to summon( doesn't require summoning points). However it's spawning changes to 2D6 if not spawning that free unit.
Nevelon wrote: GW balance things with massive pendulum swings of the nerf bat? Why would you think they would do something like that? Besides their established track record of doing exactly that.
Their price will go up. They change from Elites to HS. And I can still see their No LOS shooting being changed to a strat.
Nevelon wrote: GW balance things with massive pendulum swings of the nerf bat? Why would you think they would do something like that? Besides their established track record of doing exactly that.
Their price will go up. They change from Elites to HS. And I can still see their No LOS shooting being changed to a strat.
I fully expect Single-Minded Annihilation to disappear, too, and that's a major crutch for Hive Guard.
Nevelon wrote: GW balance things with massive pendulum swings of the nerf bat? Why would you think they would do something like that? Besides their established track record of doing exactly that.
Their price will go up. They change from Elites to HS. And I can still see their No LOS shooting being changed to a strat.
Although with the leaks/rumors of T5 warriors and increased wounds and save on monsters, Hive Guard (and Tyrant Guard) may get a badly needed durability upgrade like T6 W4 and/or better armor.
They definitely are going to be more expensive though.
If I had to bet I'd say Hive Guard Impalers will keep non-LOS shooting but lose Single-Minded Annihilation, either via the strat being deleted or by something like a CORE restriction on it.
One of the leaks says both weapon options will be good and I don't think this unit was really dominating tables when the codex would have gone to print, so...
Single Minded Annihilation is getting deleted. GW has been systematically deleting any and all sources of shoot twice. The same goes for fight twice and move twice.
As for non-LOS, I'm betting on losing it, it is a very unfun mechanic to play against.
But I'm also betting on some considerable stats improvements so it isn't left behind by the venom cannon.
It's an oppressive mechanic for those armies that took multiple detachments and multiple units of Hive Guard. And because of that, those of us who only own one unit have to suffer because the FOC rules allow for this.
And yes, I think "Shoots/Fights Twice" getting axed is a given these days. I mean, hasn't the Exocrine just been given more shots to kind of simulate shooting twice now?
A bunch of Nid kits including the combat patrol are now no longer available, the great reboxing has begun.
That typically happens ~4 weeks out from release, yeah?
The great reboxing was happening 3-4 weeks ago. I ordered a Harpy and some Warriors then. I'm -still- waiting on them as they've been out of stock/temporarily unavailable on GW's site for a while. Iirc the Harpy and Exocrine finally got posted late this week and the rest should be coming next week.
A bunch of Nid kits including the combat patrol are now no longer available, the great reboxing has begun.
That typically happens ~4 weeks out from release, yeah?
The great reboxing was happening 3-4 weeks ago. I ordered a Harpy and some Warriors then. I'm -still- waiting on them as they've been out of stock/temporarily unavailable on GW's site for a while. Iirc the Harpy and Exocrine finally got posted late this week and the rest should be coming next week.
Promise me you'll post new datasheets if they're in the box. Just the warriors one should confirm these rumours.
A bunch of Nid kits including the combat patrol are now no longer available, the great reboxing has begun.
That typically happens ~4 weeks out from release, yeah?
The great reboxing was happening 3-4 weeks ago. I ordered a Harpy and some Warriors then. I'm -still- waiting on them as they've been out of stock/temporarily unavailable on GW's site for a while. Iirc the Harpy and Exocrine finally got posted late this week and the rest should be coming next week.
Promise me you'll post new datasheets if they're in the box. Just the warriors one should confirm these rumours.
I've been eagerly waiting them with pure frustration.
Harpy and Exocrine I hope to get tomorrow. Warriors are apparently dispatched but the store is waiting for them still - hopefully will arrive so can be posted out with another order that went in last week for odds and ends I needed (Slann, Kroxigor, Soul Grinder for friend, Venomthropes and Toxicrene/Maleceptor.)
So if they have been reboxed and the Warriors do show I'll, with luck be able to post up the box sheets for the Harpy/Crone, Warriors, Venomthropes/Zoanthropes and Toxicrene/Maleceptor.
Tyran wrote: Single Minded Annihilation is getting deleted. GW has been systematically deleting any and all sources of shoot twice. The same goes for fight twice and move twice.
I fear a dramatic over-balancing is coming for Hive Guard.
GW balance things with massive pendulum swings of the nerf bat? Why would you think they would do something like that? Besides their established track record of doing exactly that.
Hope they stay playable.
There is hope; after pendulum swing the next balancing GW is more infamous for is doing nothing/next to nothing about something overpowered.
Besides, the thing GW is best at with balance (that is a relative metric people, don't jump me) is buffing weak units. Tyranids have a lot of those. Like, a lot.
BrookM wrote: Someone hammered the report button hard on this one, but got to know.. what does "TransNid" mean whenever I see it pop up in the leaked codex rumours.
I’ve been assuming from context that it means “Transhuman Physiology but for Tyranids” i.e. an ability that restricts wound rolls to a specific minimum value.
Well someone on Reddit posted pictures of the new repackaged tyrant box and it has the current termagants and Hormagaunts on the back so new sculpts seemingly aren't coming.
Looks like book and Parasite are what we are getting. Not a great surprise but a bit of shame.
I think we will still get something through Killteam- maybe Lictors?
silverstu wrote: Well someone on Reddit posted pictures of the new repackaged tyrant box and it has the current termagants and Hormagaunts on the back so new sculpts seemingly aren't coming.
Looks like book and Parasite are what we are getting. Not a great surprise but a bit of shame.
I think we will still get something through Killteam- maybe Lictors?
I wouldn't rule out new pushfit gaunts in our Combat Patrol, with the current multipart kits remaining on sale. We have the same plastic/points ratio issue as Orks, and that seems like a solid solution to getting more models into the starter box.
Am I the only one that find the drastic changes to synaptic links a bit weird? I wouldve thought, theyll keep them like they are and not invalidate the campaign book rules like that(and yeah, I know they do this. But they are not that old and I find it odd.)
Bago wrote: Am I the only one that find the drastic changes to synaptic links a bit weird? I wouldve thought, theyll keep them like they are and not invalidate the campaign book rules like that(and yeah, I know they do this. But they are not that old and I find it odd.)
The Psychic Awakening books were basically just a bunch of beta rules for 9E codexes, I'm not sure why anyone would expect something different from the Warzone books. The main surprise isn't that the rules being replaced, it's getting the Tyranid codex out of nowhere after six months rather than 12+ months.
A bunch of Nid kits including the combat patrol are now no longer available, the great reboxing has begun.
That typically happens ~4 weeks out from release, yeah?
The great reboxing was happening 3-4 weeks ago. I ordered a Harpy and some Warriors then. I'm -still- waiting on them as they've been out of stock/temporarily unavailable on GW's site for a while. Iirc the Harpy and Exocrine finally got posted late this week and the rest should be coming next week.
Promise me you'll post new datasheets if they're in the box. Just the warriors one should confirm these rumours.
I've been eagerly waiting them with pure frustration.
Harpy and Exocrine I hope to get tomorrow. Warriors are apparently dispatched but the store is waiting for them still - hopefully will arrive so can be posted out with another order that went in last week for odds and ends I needed (Slann, Kroxigor, Soul Grinder for friend, Venomthropes and Toxicrene/Maleceptor.)
So if they have been reboxed and the Warriors do show I'll, with luck be able to post up the box sheets for the Harpy/Crone, Warriors, Venomthropes/Zoanthropes and Toxicrene/Maleceptor.
So, update.
Harpy/Crone was not repackaged - boo hiss. Must have gotten one of the very last ones of the old packaging.
Exocrine/Haruspex IS repackaged. Sheet is the same as those seen, so they're not elaborate photoshops!
Observations of Sheet profiles.
Haruspex
Increased movement (8" instead of 7")
Improved WS/BS (3+ instead of 4+)
2 more Wounds.(W15 instead of 13)
Extra Attack
Extra point of Ld 2+ Save instead of 3+.
Movement, WS and BS degrade - Strength does not! Currently Strength degrades but movement does not!
Exocrine
Increased movement
Improved WS/BS 3 more wounds (W15 instead of 12)
Extra point of Ld 2+ Save
silverstu wrote: Well someone on Reddit posted pictures of the new repackaged tyrant box and it has the current termagants and Hormagaunts on the back so new sculpts seemingly aren't coming.
Hopefully these are fake. It would be a kick in tha balls if we would not get new Troops when Eldar/Orks/Necrons got theirs.
silverstu wrote: Well someone on Reddit posted pictures of the new repackaged tyrant box and it has the current termagants and Hormagaunts on the back so new sculpts seemingly aren't coming.
Hopefully these are fake. It would be a kick in tha balls if we would not get new Troops when Eldar/Orks/Necrons got theirs.
Tau didn't get new fire warrior or kroot. Fire warriors still have the wonky mis-cast legs from 2000.
silverstu wrote: Well someone on Reddit posted pictures of the new repackaged tyrant box and it has the current termagants and Hormagaunts on the back so new sculpts seemingly aren't coming.
Hopefully these are fake. It would be a kick in tha balls if we would not get new Troops when Eldar/Orks/Necrons got theirs.
Tau didn't get new fire warrior or kroot. Fire warriors still have the wonky mis-cast legs from 2000.
Uh, what? The Breacher team is much more recent than that and it’s a dual kit with the Strike team and the new turret jobber.
Kroot though? Yeah, same ol’ kit from way back when. But no-one cares about Kroot. Except the “Kroot army when?” people of course. But mostly not people who play Tau for shooty guns and robits.
Maybe that’s what they should do? Make Kroot a full-fledged (bird puns!) army of their own and replace the old Carnivore kit then.
silverstu wrote: Well someone on Reddit posted pictures of the new repackaged tyrant box and it has the current termagants and Hormagaunts on the back so new sculpts seemingly aren't coming.
Hopefully these are fake. It would be a kick in tha balls if we would not get new Troops when Eldar/Orks/Necrons got theirs.
Tau didn't get new fire warrior or kroot. Fire warriors still have the wonky mis-cast legs from 2000.
Theres a rumour new Kroot are coming [id assume via a Killteam set]. Mind you its in the same set of rumours from the Valrak source that predicted new Gants/Gaunts -although they got a new Nid dex in march seemingly right and out of nowhere.
Early days yet I suppose, could be an Ork type troop refresh - the Gants and Gaunts aren't exactly super posable anyway and its not like Nids are particularly different from each other. Could work maybe a 5 gant/5 gaunt box with a ripper base like the original box set. two boxes gives you a basic size brood and they can bend into existing collections or the existing boxes.
I'd really love a new multi pose kit of something as from a modelling point of view you get so much more out of those kits. Not holding my breath though!
silverstu wrote: Well someone on Reddit posted pictures of the new repackaged tyrant box and it has the current termagants and Hormagaunts on the back so new sculpts seemingly aren't coming.
Hopefully these are fake. It would be a kick in tha balls if we would not get new Troops when Eldar/Orks/Necrons got theirs.
Tau didn't get new fire warrior or kroot. Fire warriors still have the wonky mis-cast legs from 2000.
Uh, what? The Breacher team is much more recent than that and it’s a dual kit with the Strike team and the new turret jobber.
Kroot though? Yeah, same ol’ kit from way back when. But no-one cares about Kroot. Except the “Kroot army when?” people of course. But mostly not people who play Tau for shooty guns and robits.
Maybe that’s what they should do? Make Kroot a full-fledged (bird puns!) army of their own and replace the old Carnivore kit then.
Breacher team is a additional sprue to the strike team. The strike team is the original 2000s sculpts. Its why they have the same flaws in the same spots as the ones I bought in 2000.
Smudgy thigh pads and half formed shin guards....barf.
Theres a rumour new Kroot are coming [id assume via a Killteam set]. Mind you its in the same set of rumours from the Valrak source that predicted new Gants/Gaunts -although they got a new Nid dex in march seemingly right and out of nowhere.
Early days yet I suppose, could be an Ork type troop refresh - the Gants and Gaunts aren't exactly super posable anyway and its not like Nids are particularly different from each other. Could work maybe a 5 gant/5 gaunt box with a ripper base like the original box set. two boxes gives you a basic size brood and they can bend into existing collections or the existing boxes.
I'd really love a new multi pose kit of something as from a modelling point of view you get so much more out of those kits. Not holding my breath though!
Multi-pose Gants/Gaunts would be...kind of pointless I feel? They're one of those units, like Cultists, Necron Warriors, and Conscripts, which would benefit from an easy-build box chocked full of models with arm options.
Breacher team is a additional sprue to the strike team. The strike team is the original 2000s sculpts. Its why they have the same flaws in the same spots as the ones I bought in 2000.
Smudgy thigh pads and half formed shin guards....barf.
This is impossible to be true unless you have a DeLorean that can hit 88 MPH. The Breacher parts are on the same sprues as the rest of the parts.
This Tau Fire Warriors thing is like the Mandela effect or something. I quick search on the website for the new sprues disproves it's just the same old fire warrior sprues (breacher parts on the legs/torso sprue). Maybe you're thinking of the pathfinders, since they got the upgrade sprue. But they had a much more modern core sprue anyway.
silverstu wrote: Well someone on Reddit posted pictures of the new repackaged tyrant box and it has the current termagants and Hormagaunts on the back so new sculpts seemingly aren't coming.
Hopefully these are fake. It would be a kick in tha balls if we would not get new Troops when Eldar/Orks/Necrons got theirs.
Tau didn't get new fire warrior or kroot. Fire warriors still have the wonky mis-cast legs from 2000.
Uh, what? The Breacher team is much more recent than that and it’s a dual kit with the Strike team and the new turret jobber.
Kroot though? Yeah, same ol’ kit from way back when. But no-one cares about Kroot. Except the “Kroot army when?” people of course. But mostly not people who play Tau for shooty guns and robits.
Maybe that’s what they should do? Make Kroot a full-fledged (bird puns!) army of their own and replace the old Carnivore kit then.
Breacher team is a additional sprue to the strike team. The strike team is the original 2000s sculpts. Its why they have the same flaws in the same spots as the ones I bought in 2000.
Smudgy thigh pads and half formed shin guards....barf.
No, they’re not. The whole kit was redone. The design is the same, but the sculpts and sprues are all new.
silverstu wrote: Well someone on Reddit posted pictures of the new repackaged tyrant box and it has the current termagants and Hormagaunts on the back so new sculpts seemingly aren't coming.
Hopefully these are fake. It would be a kick in tha balls if we would not get new Troops when Eldar/Orks/Necrons got theirs.
Tau didn't get new fire warrior or kroot. Fire warriors still have the wonky mis-cast legs from 2000.
Uh, what? The Breacher team is much more recent than that and it’s a dual kit with the Strike team and the new turret jobber. Kroot though? Yeah, same ol’ kit from way back when. But no-one cares about Kroot. Except the “Kroot army when?” people of course. But mostly not people who play Tau for shooty guns and robits. Maybe that’s what they should do? Make Kroot a full-fledged (bird puns!) army of their own and replace the old Carnivore kit then.
Breacher team is a additional sprue to the strike team. The strike team is the original 2000s sculpts. Its why they have the same flaws in the same spots as the ones I bought in 2000.
Smudgy thigh pads and half formed shin guards....barf.
No, they’re not. The whole kit was redone. The design is the same, but the sculpts and sprues are all new.
Agreed, you can see both Fire Warrior and Breacher parts on the same sprue, it's been redone.
As someone who has been in Tau since the beginning and has built several hundred firewarriors minis, I can confirm that the Tau Firewarriors were 100% redone in 7th and the current kit is not the same as the ones from the early 2000s. Here are some images of what the original unit sprues look like (sorry ebay listings I found through google images - not mine, wasn't able to link the images otherwise because of work firewall):
Wouldn't mind new genestealers, but I would think that GW would drop those with the GSC book rather than the nids book.
The current Termagant and Hormagaunt kits are 22 years old this year according to the sprues (says copyright 2000), so hard to say that they have any real life left in them, definitely due for a re-do.
dan2026 wrote: Tyranids badly need new Guunts and Genestealers.
Yes they do- the Orks had their sprues tweaked before [with added nob and special weapons?].
And yes they don't even need to be too complex as Nid players run hordes of them, some body variations across the set, the heads possible like they are currently and sets of arms and a way you go. The current ones aren't really posable anyway - all I do is take a heat gun to the tails and add subtle bends and it makes them much more dynamic.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
chaos0xomega wrote: Wouldn't mind new genestealers, but I would think that GW would drop those with the GSC book rather than the nids book.
Could see Stealers as a Killteam actually with bio morphs for specialists and plus with brood telepathy they can act independently , it would be very fluffy and possibly more likely than a Lictor team?
dan2026 wrote: Tyranids badly need more expensive, lower head count, full monopose new Guunts and Genestealers.
FTFY
More expensive and lower head count are definite downsides, but the existing kit is already basically monopose so hard to say that theres a downside there. Personally, if its a chaff unit that I need to assemble a hundred of I'm totally onboard with them being push-fit monopose minis that go together fast.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Yeah, I think a GSC kill team seems more likely than a lictor kill team IMO.
dan2026 wrote: Tyranids badly need more expensive, lower head count, full monopose new Guunts and Genestealers.
FTFY
More expensive and lower head count are definite downsides, but the existing kit is already basically monopose so hard to say that theres a downside there. Personally, if its a chaff unit that I need to assemble a hundred of I'm totally onboard with them being push-fit monopose minis that go together fast.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Yeah, I think a GSC kill team seems more likely than a lictor kill team IMO.
Just be wary of the boyz treatment, you don't want a £32 box of 10 gaunts armed with 2 devourers, 3 pairs of spinefists and 5 fleshborers for example.
True. I was on board with the new boyz kit right up until it became apparent that it didn't give you enough weapons to consistently kit out the squad with basic weapons. The idea that a gant/gaunt redo (honestly, they should just both be gants or gaunts, the slight difference in name between them irks me and IMO was the result of a typo way back when that stuck) would come as a combi-kit where you build 2 with devourers, 3 w spinefists, 2 with fleshborers, and then 3 with hormagaunt scything talons scares me - mainly because I only really want hormagaunts and not termagants.
