Preferably it's an addition to what's already there. I don't even care if it's useful or not as long as they're not throwing out the entire range again.
Just thinking through the trends of the last year and how GW might attempt to productize them:
Oil paints – The oil wash technique has really taken off among pro painters in the last year or so. Kind of doubt this, it's a messy process involving flammable liquids.
Color shift – My LGS has taken in a few ranges of color shift paint – Turbodork
Mini sprays – Tamiya-sized small cans with more colors?
Airbrush – The one bit of content in the teaser is "prepare your brushes" so probably not.
Reaper-style Triads – this strikes me as most likely. "Paint makes Warhammer" strikes me as a line targeting people playing with piles of gray plastic, not those looking to hone a Golden Demon entry. My guess is that we'll see paints sold in three-packs, perhaps with the long-awaited shift to droppers. It would be a good compliment to the contrast line and give people a bit more of a sense for which colors they need. E.g. Trying to suss out the different greens needed for a Salamanders, Death Guard, Ork, or Dark Angels scheme isn't the easiest thing for a noob.
If it is them, I can't wait to watch people have them explode paint everywhere when they get clogged and then they see they're not the panacea the paints-only-exclusively-with-GW-paints club seem to think they are...
If it is them, I can't wait to watch people have them explode paint everywhere when they get clogged and then they see they're not the panacea the paints-only-exclusively-with-GW-paints club seem to think they are...
Well at least they dont dry inside of unopened pots.
If it is them, I can't wait to watch people have them explode paint everywhere when they get clogged and then they see they're not the panacea the paints-only-exclusively-with-GW-paints club seem to think they are...
Well at least they dont dry inside of unopened pots.
My point was both have their inherent disadvantages, but certain subsets of this community seem to think dropper bottles are like the second coming.
flaherty wrote: Airbrush – The one bit of content in the teaser is "prepare your brushes" so probably not.
A set of brushes loaded with different paints fired from a pump action revolver shotgun very much sounds like GW's take on an airbrush, so I wouldn't rule it out.
If it is them, I can't wait to watch people have them explode paint everywhere when they get clogged and then they see they're not the panacea the paints-only-exclusively-with-GW-paints club seem to think they are...
Isn't a panacea supposed to overflow with nature's bounty? Seems to me like an exploding dropper bottle should very much be likened to a panacea.
Arbitrator wrote: Wasn't there talk a few months back of all the range moving to droppers?
There was talk, yes, but I don't believe that rumor came attached to a reliable source. And since GW's teaser doesn't actually tell us anything, it's still up in the air if that rumor is on the money or just wishlisting.
New updated formula, doesn't go patchy on flat surfaces, still flows nicely into recesses.
Sadly, this new formula makes an exact duplication of existing colours impossible, so best you buy all new paints and another batch of models so they all match.
If it is them, I can't wait to watch people have them explode paint everywhere when they get clogged and then they see they're not the panacea the paints-only-exclusively-with-GW-paints club seem to think they are...
I decant most of my GW paints to droppers, and have plenty of AP, vallejo and scale 75 in droppers. I can't remember the last time I had a clog - that wasn't me being an idiot and forgetting scale 75 need the tip piercing before use... It saves a lot of paint, is far more suitable for use with a palette - which GW shows using in every single paint guide to thin the paint - and don't end up with great globs of dry paint round the rim blocking it closing and causing it dry up in the pot, AND the best bit - I don't need a bloody pot holder to stop the thing tipping all over my desk when my cat decides to come explore my desk, again. Citadel shades going everywhere is a far worse problem than clogging could ever be.
GW has stated that they are working on an update to the Citadel Colour app in reply to a mention on Facebook that it hadn't been updated since 2019, so that's probably related to this announcement in some way (i.e., no pre-painted miniatures, etc.).
EDIT: Note that 'prepare you brushes' could be 'prepare your airbrushes' and would fit with some of the imagery in the video.
Paint concentrate for master painters. Water costs money to ship the extra weight. And snob painters will get to brag about how they perfected the exact amount of tears, tap water, or fountain of youth fluid to achieve the ideal consistency.
Not just dropper bottles, but proper squeezy bottles and you literally paint directly from the pot. You can pay a few pounds more and you get a sponge applicator to attract to the top of the pot.
privateer4hire wrote: Paint concentrate for master painters. Water costs money to ship the extra weight. And snob painters will get to brag about how they perfected the exact amount of tears, tap water, or fountain of youth fluid to achieve the ideal consistency.
They already made and discontinued the Artificer Tint set, a collection of pigment concentrates intended to alter the colour of full pots to make the exact mix for painting armies without having to work it out on the palette each time. Came with a sheet of stickers for each tint to record how many brush/tool loads were used. Disappeared after the last big expansion to the paint range.
On a more serious note, choose your own colours? Use a RAL system or something to enable a specific colour mix to be made. Like the paint mixing stations in DIY stores where they mix whatever pigment mix into a blank set of emulsion.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So like the separate pigment system noted above but done in store or ordered digitally
I think some people don't realise that pre-painted models are pretty much impossible for GW. The only way they could financially achieve it would be to move production to a place like India or China where the labour costs are low enough to make it viable to pay people to prepaint.
It also destroys GW's "hobby" marketing which has been a cornerstone of their marketing for decades. They even use it as marketing for parents and schools when trying to get younger generations into the hobby.
The only way I could see GW doing it is if they shifted to 3D printer production and if colour 3D printers become a thing and become affordable enough to make it a worthy investment. Even then its still eating into the hobby marketing.
SamusDrake wrote: Paints for quick weathering effects would be useful.
What do you mean 'quick weathering effects'. Weathering effects' are in this sense the proverbial length of string... Limitless.
Weathering would be nice, but hardly groundbreaking as most weathering products already exist, made by much bigger players than gw, plus the video showed nice shiny parade ground armour.
I'm wondering whether its simply a new range of colours, maybe with additional inks for intensity, some new washes etc. Who knows.
Interference colours.
Like colour shifts but a) much rarer, so less derivative, and b) vastly more flexible because you can choose arbitrary base colours to put the interference layer over.
Whatever it is, I don't think it will be all that amazing or revolutionary for painting like Contrast was. If it was, the perfect time to preview it would have been when they had all those painters and content creators at Warhammer World just a couple weeks ago for the HH preview.
If one had to guess, a new line of metallics including colored metallics (blues, reds, etc.) would make sense, especially as their metallics are a long ways from the best. Or perhaps some kind of new texture metallic line of paint you never knew you needed or wanted.
Monkeysloth wrote: They could be jumping onto the Oil Paint bandwagon. Lots of youtube people have been talking the past few months about never using acrylics again.
Quality Oils are already costly enough, I can't imagine what the price tag would be on GW branded Oils....
Oh yea, they'd also make them smaller tubes because Oils last a lot longer.
The entire time I've been in the hobby, GW have always marketed the paints as suitable for children, never anything even slightly toxic - such as flow aid. Gotta make sure the parents don't get twitchy.
I definitely can't see them adding mineral spirits to the range! It would have to be water soluble oils, and even then that seems a bit of a stretch.
Fluorescent/neon paints for glow effects and stuff like escher hair. I've seen quite a growth in use of these, and it'd definitely fit the 'something colourful' and brush applied. In dropper bottles
frankelee wrote: If one had to guess, a new line of metallics including colored metallics (blues, reds, etc.) would make sense, especially as their metallics are a long ways from the best. Or perhaps some kind of new texture metallic line of paint you never knew you needed or wanted.
As someone about to embark on a big Alpha Legion project I'd welcome a good miniatures-grade metallic green.
Tannhauser42 wrote: Whatever it is, I don't think it will be all that amazing or revolutionary for painting like Contrast was. If it was, the perfect time to preview it would have been when they had all those painters and content creators at Warhammer World just a couple weeks ago for the HH preview.
They may well have previewed them to those visitors, with an embargo on talking about it until after the HH release.
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: I think it well might be direct-to-plastic paints with no primer required.
They already have those. Acrylic paint doesn't really need a primer, particularly on plastic.
What do you mean 'quick weathering effects'. Weathering effects' are in this sense the proverbial length of string... Limitless.
Weathering would be nice, but hardly groundbreaking as most weathering products already exist, made by much bigger players than gw, plus the video showed nice shiny parade ground armour.
I'm wondering whether its simply a new range of colours, maybe with additional inks for intensity, some new washes etc. Who knows.
As in armour thats taken a beating; scratches, chips and dirt. I've yet to come across such a thing save for lengthy painting tutorials on Youtube, although I wouldn't mind a point in the right direction all the same.
Monkeysloth wrote: They could be jumping onto the Oil Paint bandwagon. Lots of youtube people have been talking the past few months about never using acrylics again.
Quality Oils are already costly enough, I can't imagine what the price tag would be on GW branded Oils....
Oh yea, they'd also make them smaller tubes because Oils last a lot longer.
Seriously. Even as expensive as some oil colors are per tube, most of them still work out cheaper per ml than GW paints, until you get into the more expensive pigments. I doubt very seriously GW will do a full line of oils, but I could see them doing a line of oil washes.
And yeah, I'm in the Linseed Brotherhood and have gone full oils for the last like 6 months. All my acrylics are moving to the top shelf out of reach, since I never use them anymore. My airbrush still gets a workout for priming, but I'm not even doing initial work with that as much right now.
I like the idea of contrast metallics or colored metallics. I’ve been a huge fan of contrast (probably my favorite paint product of the last five years), because it both allows newer or time crunched painters to get models done in a relatively quick time and because it allows for some pretty cool techniques for more experienced painters.
Voss wrote: Oh, no. How many projects are going to be made more difficult because a new swath of colors get discontinued?
Right, I swear if they change standard names again, or discontinue certain colors, I will spend a lot of money switching to Vallejo and Scale 75 permanently.
Hmm, will be interested to see if it's genuinely something new or just a GW branding on stuff we can already buy. I'm guessing the latter, but always interested to see what new stuff might come out.
cole1114 wrote: Colorshift seems to be the guess going around elsewhere, at least.
The following image is what set off that speculation.
Spoiler:
I'm not seeing anything in that image that would suggest colourshift...?
Green-to-gold is a normal colorshift option, e.g. turbodork radium.
So I can see why people are thinking it's not a light reflection but a hint. Would fit too, given people go elsewhere to get them that GW would want in. You *can* apply them by brush, but you usually get much better results with an airbrush.
the current GW line is already there for a very long time now, so I expect that something like a new base line
new names for old colours, new colours with old names, maybe smaller bottlers (there are some nice 5ml Droppers around)
cole1114 wrote: Colorshift seems to be the guess going around elsewhere, at least.
The following image is what set off that speculation.
Spoiler:
I'm not seeing anything in that image that would suggest colourshift...?
Green-to-gold is a normal colorshift option, e.g. turbodork radium.
Spoiler:
The light source in the background of that scene is green though, the non-metallic red rope also has a green highlight coming from that side.
If I were going to argue for colour shift, the Titan's crotch plate looks like maaaybe it has a top to bottom colour shift, but at first glance I just thought it was weathering.
kodos wrote: the current GW line is already there for a very long time now, so I expect that something like a new base line
new names for old colours, new colours with old names, maybe smaller bottlers (there are some nice 5ml Droppers around)
I am kicking myself for not thinking of smaller containers. That’s so obvious; it’s like the butler did it.
Well done.
Colorshift makes no sense to me, what are you going to paint with them? GW actually has hard set lore colour schemes for their stuff, they're not a generic paint manufacturer that can produce anything and everything, they make paint for the factions they make.
arkhanist wrote: The entire time I've been in the hobby, GW have always marketed the paints as suitable for children, never anything even slightly toxic - such as flow aid. Gotta make sure the parents don't get twitchy.
I definitely can't see them adding mineral spirits to the range! It would have to be water soluble oils, and even then that seems a bit of a stretch.
Fluorescent/neon paints for glow effects and stuff like escher hair. I've seen quite a growth in use of these, and it'd definitely fit the 'something colourful' and brush applied. In dropper bottles
Agree completely - I would be very, very surprised if it was Oils for the aforementioned reasons. Although advanced-level painters use them to good effect it would not make painting more accessible and certainly not faster, which is GWsMO.
Dropper bottles sounds most likely although if they do rename the painfs again I will be honest that is the last time I buy a GW paint lol!
lord_blackfang wrote: Colorshift makes no sense to me, what are you going to paint with them? GW actually has hard set lore colour schemes for their stuff, they're not a generic paint manufacturer that can produce anything and everything, they make paint for the factions they make.
Various insect carapaces, homebrew Space Marine Chapters or Eldar Craftworlds, oil spills - there's a few ideas, just off the top of my head.
They might also then need to introduce some gloss primers, as I seem to recall colourshifting paints work best over a gloss base.
My guess is a (badly needed) update to the Colour app.
But, the wishlist I would like is dropper bottles, new colour spray primers and as an outside gamble, the return of some very specific brushes, such as a stippling brush, rediculously sized brushes for terrain etc.
The way GW pitched it this is clearly something newly mixed or physical. I don't think they'd have hyped up as they've done if all they were doing is updating the painting app. Not saying that an update to it isn't coming, but that it would be a very strange way to market it.
Even dropper bottles don't really fit the style of marketing they've gone for. They've very clearly teased that there's a NEW paint thing coming. What that is could be anything from just new colours; to new types of paint.
Dropper bottles and app updates could be rolled into it, but I'd be very surprised if we don't see new paints of some kind.
They won't revamp the whole range again (unless they somehow lose access to the current manufacturing pipeline). 7 or so years worth of YouTube painting tutorials they've put together would be outdated overnight.
It's not going to be anything as big as Contrast or they would be hyping it a lot more and lot further in advance also.
deano2099 wrote: They won't revamp the whole range again (unless they somehow lose access to the current manufacturing pipeline). 7 or so years worth of YouTube painting tutorials they've put together would be outdated overnight.
But that would also erase Duncan out of GW lore...and drive newbs to the Warhammer+ service for all the new videos...
Dropper bottles, half the paint and a $1 more, that's my guess. My second guess is paint that doesn't need to be thinned, which would agains be effectively half the paint and a $1 increase. What ever it is, I'm sure there is a $1 increase in there.
I think if it was Heresy-themed rattle cans or new paints they'd have probably saved the new painting videos until later so they can use them whilst Little Timmy is buying his first 30k miniatures.
Typhus Corrosion has been pitched for years as their equivalent of a 'weathering' paint, so I doubt it's anything 'revolutionary' like that. They got rid of the FW pigments not long ago.
Oils/enamels people have already mentioned as not being Little Timmy friendly, so it's probably not those. GW seem quite fond of their current painting advice of painting the base coat, drowning it needlessly in wash, then painting 90% of it again (using more paint of course) anyway.
They occasionally release new paints of all types without the big hype up (the Necron and Cruelboy ones come to mind) so I don't think it's just new colours.
My money's still on colour shifters but only because I don't know what else it could be.
Platuan4th wrote: Paint that doesn't need thinning is my guess, too.
Aren't the Air paints already close to that? (I know airbrush paints usually still need at least some flow improver)
Arbitrator wrote: I think if it was Heresy-themed rattle cans or new paints they'd have probably saved the new painting videos until later so they can use them whilst Little Timmy is buying his first 30k miniatures.
Typhus Corrosion has been pitched for years as their equivalent of a 'weathering' paint, so I doubt it's anything 'revolutionary' like that. They got rid of the FW pigments not long ago.
Oils/enamels people have already mentioned as not being Little Timmy friendly, so it's probably not those. GW seem quite fond of their current painting advice of painting the base coat, drowning it needlessly in wash, then painting 90% of it again (using more paint of course) anyway.
They occasionally release new paints of all types without the big hype up (the Necron and Cruelboy ones come to mind) so I don't think it's just new colours.
My money's still on colour shifters but only because I don't know what else it could be.
Platuan4th wrote: Paint that doesn't need thinning is my guess, too.
Aren't the Air paints already close to that? (I know airbrush paints usually still need at least some flow improver)
They basically are, yes, though too thin to use for e.g. base coating unless you're a masochist. You only need flow aid for airbrushing (rather than hairy stick) because acrylics usually dry fast on the needle tip. Though it's nice for thick chalky colours too.
They did bring back the FW paints from the dead and snuck em into the air line - maybe they plan to do the same for the weathering pigments. But it'd be odd for the references to be new colour and palettes if it's that, given you usually use them dry, and they did have the expert pigment thing for custom mixes that didn't last long.
Agree too that a handful of new colours doesn't usually elicit a 'watch this space' announcement, they get a baby article on warcom at best. So it's got to be something moderately different; but I doubt it's going to be Contrast-level, which was admittedly a big change with a whole new style of easier glazing compared to the normal GW style and has spawned a number of competitors.
I am definitely intrigued, but also moderately expecting an expensive nothing-burger.
The video didn’t give me a feeling about metallics as such. There were a lot of non metallic surfaces getting splattered by the animation. They also don’t seem like something that you would suggest was going to substantially improve or affect painter experience, given that they exist in the wider ecosystem already. But similarly I can’t think what other specific things they might be on about. Oh the suspense
FrozenDwarf wrote: Apart from rebranding the whole thing yet again i cant see anything they are missing exept pure weathering products.
I don't think they have fluorescent paints outside of the green one they released alongside the Necron update.
They don't have luminescent paints at all.
They don't have metallics other than silver and gold.
They don't have color shift paints.
None of that is revolutionary, but that's not going to stop GW marketing if it's a gap in their lineup they want to fill. And there's always the chance that they get it right with something that could genuinely be considered new or not represented in the modeling sector.
GW sales rep for local store told them a couple weeks ago that paint was coming in dropper bottles soon. I expect this is where thats heading. With that that I expect:
- 50% price hike on paints (note that they didn't touch paints in the recent price hikes, means they are definitely going to raise prices with the new product release - they likely kept prices constant in order to maintain sales of existing inventory so they could clear it out to make room for new)
- renaming of the entire paint range, again.
Dr. Mills wrote: My guess is a (badly needed) update to the Colour app.
From earlier in this thread...
Ghaz wrote: GW has stated that they are working on an update to the Citadel Colour app in reply to a mention on Facebook that it hadn't been updated since 2019, so that's probably related to this announcement in some way (i.e., no pre-painted miniatures, etc.).
deano2099 wrote: Maybe they'll revisit the pre-mixed glazes? The old ones were phased out when Contrast came out (Guilliman Blue, Waywatcher Green and Bloodletter).
GW has been very keen on catering to the
nostalgia gamers lately. So my guess its the return of Devlan Mud!
Probably exclusively included in a special (really expencive) paint set that sell out first day of proder never to be seen again.
deano2099 wrote: Maybe they'll revisit the pre-mixed glazes? The old ones were phased out when Contrast came out (Guilliman Blue, Waywatcher Green and Bloodletter).
Contrast Paint + Contrast Medium = Glaze
Again, you think that means they won't bottle up that mix and sell it?
(I also don't find it's a great mix as a glaze as the contrast medium causes the paint to run off the raised areas when often you'll actually want to tint the entire area evenly.)
If this is dropper bottles, would that necessitate a reformulation to make the paints thinner? Only I’m imaging that open lid pot paints could be thicker than those that go into a dropper bottle?
Seriously. I’ve no bloody clue. This isn’t some kind of weird gotcha.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
deano2099 wrote: Maybe they'll revisit the pre-mixed glazes? The old ones were phased out when Contrast came out (Guilliman Blue, Waywatcher Green and Bloodletter).
I actually found my set of those, including Lamenters Yellow. Magpies on release day, then left in Box O Stuff ever since, they’ve found a home with my mate that’s an excellent painter.
Guilliman Blue is in the other Box P Stuff. Somewhere.
I genuinely can't think of anything that they'd actually do. I don't think colour shift or anything like that as it's a bit too niche and this is being hyped as a big new product... I can only think of dropper bottles, which to be honest don't really deserve this level of fanfare either.
If this is dropper bottles, would that necessitate a reformulation to make the paints thinner? Only I’m imaging that open lid pot paints could be thicker than those that go into a dropper bottle?
I don't think so, some of my Vallejo droppers put out some pretty thick paint, certainly as thick as any GW one I can think of.
deano2099 wrote: Maybe they'll revisit the pre-mixed glazes? The old ones were phased out when Contrast came out (Guilliman Blue, Waywatcher Green and Bloodletter).
Contrast Paint + Contrast Medium = Glaze
Again, you think that means they won't bottle up that mix and sell it?
(I also don't find it's a great mix as a glaze as the contrast medium causes the paint to run off the raised areas when often you'll actually want to tint the entire area evenly.)
Since they discontinued the previous glazes when they released the Contrast paint, yes I do.
deano2099 wrote: Maybe they'll revisit the pre-mixed glazes? The old ones were phased out when Contrast came out (Guilliman Blue, Waywatcher Green and Bloodletter).
Contrast Paint + Contrast Medium = Glaze
Again, you think that means they won't bottle up that mix and sell it?
(I also don't find it's a great mix as a glaze as the contrast medium causes the paint to run off the raised areas when often you'll actually want to tint the entire area evenly.)
Since they discontinued the previous glazes when they released the Contrast paint, yes I do.
Aye, bringing back the glazes seems a bit niche give they only just cancelled them. And thinned contrast isn't the same use, nor are the colours the same. Fortunately for continuing legacy schemes (and a very similar flow) you can mix a couple of vallejo inks to replicate them.
The announcement itself suggest to me more than simply Droppers or Glazes.
Both could absolutely be part of it - but I’d be surprised if they’re the whole of the thing. Remember, Contrast got a decent fanfare, but the paints added since, such as ones for the AoS Dominion set, not at all.
If this is dropper bottles, would that necessitate a reformulation to make the paints thinner? Only I’m imaging that open lid pot paints could be thicker than those that go into a dropper bottle?
Seriously. I’ve no bloody clue. This isn’t some kind of weird gotcha. .
It's a fair question! It depends on the nozzle size. You can have thin nozzles (like those used for vaping e-liquid) that are nice for thin paints ala contrast, shades or mediums, as it helps you control droplet size when it's low viscosity, and avoid waste. They are too narrow for normal paint though and hard to squeeze out, so don't use these generally if you're decanting paints yourself.
Then normal size 'paint' dropper nozzles for the majority of paints that are layer or base paint consistency, or even thicker - some of the army painter paints are more like custard, yet they still come out a normal nozzle ok. You can put very thin paint in here too, just get bigger droplets. If you buy your own, you want these.
For really thick stuff - like 'dry' paint consistency, texture paint or anything that could hold a spoon - a dropper bottle generally isn't a good fit, though darkstar metallics have had a go (love their paint, but the nozzle tends to push into the bottle, which is a unique and annoying problem).
17 or 18ml is the standard volume, though there are bigger ones like pro acryl 22ml. GW of course has 12, 18 or 24 ml pots currently. One advantage of a 17ml dropper is it takes up less area than a GW pot (taller yet narrower diameter) so you can fit more in the same shelf or rack space (vertical space is not usually as constrained given you need to be able to put your hand over the pot!). Given most GW paints are currently 12ml, it seems unlikely they'd switch the same volume to a 17ml dropper bottle which would make very clear how much less paint you get in that expensive pot comparatively. So if they are going to droppers, they're either going to be diddy or the price is going up - a lot. Though I imagine price going up is pretty much inevitable at this point regardless.
oni wrote: The return of the Foundation paint line?
I thought that was wrapped into the base/layer distinctions on the paint lines. The olf foundation paints were hight pigment for better coverage, which is what the base paints are supposed to be. Not that they always deliver…
I’d love to see inks return for glazes, at least the old blue one I still use.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: The announcement itself suggest to me more than simply Droppers or Glazes.
Both could absolutely be part of it - but I’d be surprised if they’re the whole of the thing. Remember, Contrast got a decent fanfare, but the paints added since, such as ones for the AoS Dominion set, not at all.
It's a preview the day before and announcement today. That's not really fanfare at all. This is about on par with what Nighthaunt Gloom and the other one got!
If it were a massive rework of the paint line it'd be teased more than a day in advance.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: The announcement itself suggest to me more than simply Droppers or Glazes.
Both could absolutely be part of it - but I’d be surprised if they’re the whole of the thing. Remember, Contrast got a decent fanfare, but the paints added since, such as ones for the AoS Dominion set, not at all.
We also got a bit more than just the Contrast paints when they went on pre-order.
oni wrote: The return of the Foundation paint line?
I thought that was wrapped into the base/layer distinctions on the paint lines. The olf foundation paints were hight pigment for better coverage, which is what the base paints are supposed to be. Not that they always deliver…
I’d love to see inks return for glazes, at least the old blue one I still use.
I'm just grasping for ideas like everyone else, but yes, you are correct that Base paints are supposed to be used like the old Foundation paints. Base paints aren't quite as good as the old Foundation paints though.
GW had some amazing Glaze paints when they overhauled the line. There was Waywatcher Green, Lamenters Yellow, Bloodletter red and Guilliman Blue. They were really good. Sadly they were cut from the line. I guess because glazing is easy enough to do with normal layer paints.
I don't know, I doubt we're going to see anything revolutionary. It's probably just dropper bottles and maybe a wet pallet.
I'm not sure metallic Contrast is possible, I'd expect the unique consistency would mess with the suspension of the mica (?) flakes that create the metallic effect.
And a ninja end of range in a pear tree "* The four gloss shades – Nuln Oil Gloss, Agrax Earthshade Gloss, Reikland Fleshshade Gloss, and Cryptek Armourshade Gloss – are leaving the range"
Rather surprised that nuln oil and agrax are going. They are very useful inks.
Only the gloss version is going away. Cryptek Armourshade is the only one actually gone since it only had a gloss version (Thought maybe they will release it as a non-gloss version?)
Rather surprised that nuln oil and agrax are going. They are very useful inks.
Only the gloss version is going away. Cryptek Armourshade is the only one actually going since it only had a gloss version (Thought maybe they will release it as a non-gloss version?)
Kind of anti-climatic but the colors all look nice. I'm happy to see an expansion of blue and green contrasts as that's, in my opinion, the weakest area of the line.
My issue with these sorts of things are that those are some nice colours and shades, however as per usual, they're not much use if you have an established scheme or collection. So less excited than I maybe otherwise would be.
Once again GW advertises Contrast paints with horrible paint jobs. Thankfully we already know what they are capable of. I have been using Contrast paints almost exclusively since they were released and I can't wait to add new colours to my collection
I can see soulblight grey being very popular for people wanting a quick white with shading effect, with less harshness than you might get with nuln oil and the like.
Mortarion Grime I'm thinking might look good with skeletons/undead/ossiarchs
The yellow contrasts are also interesting as the current yellow contrast is very orangy in the darks
Best part of the gloss shades is they stained less and went more into the recesses. Then you can matt varnish them. If the reformulated shades do this anyway without the gloss effect then they're really not needed anymore.
edit - realised this hasn't been mentioned on the thread yet - all the existing shades have been reformulated
Neat, i love all the current shades. So all the new ones are a day one buy. Although i can't help but notice the shades are being shown in the smaller pots rather than the current bigger ones.
Dudeface wrote: My issue with these sorts of things are that those are some nice colours and shades, however as per usual, they're not much use if you have an established scheme or collection. So less excited than I maybe otherwise would be.
I feel this.
Contrast paints went hand in hand for me starting my tyranids. The syhish purple was darker then I wanted, but it was the only one close. So now I have a chunk of bugs painted, but like the look of the leviathan purple. Shock how the paint named after the scheme I’m trying for is the better fit.
I think the grey shade might replace apothecary white for if/when I need to do white armor. Which is mostly behind me unfortunately.
And I might grab the celestium blue to see if it matches my Ultras. Glaze it over mcgragge.
Dudeface wrote: My issue with these sorts of things are that those are some nice colours and shades, however as per usual, they're not much use if you have an established scheme or collection. So less excited than I maybe otherwise would be.
I feel this.
Contrast paints went hand in hand for me starting my tyranids. The syhish purple was darker then I wanted, but it was the only one close. So now I have a chunk of bugs painted, but like the look of the leviathan purple. Shock how the paint named after the scheme I’m trying for is the better fit.
I think the grey shade might replace apothecary white for if/when I need to do white armor. Which is mostly behind me unfortunately.
And I might grab the celestium blue to see if it matches my Ultras. Glaze it over mcgragge.
Overall, nice addition to the range.
I might want to grab a pot of the old formula nuln oil. I don’t want it going too far into the recesses for how I use it.
Hmmm, I think I will give their new white spray cans a try. I was thinking about trying a different brand, but it may be worth the extra expense if it does a really good job that I can then use with quickshade stain or when painting white 'mechs. Maybe Soulblight Grey over white will do exactly the same thing as Contrast white over white, but with less repainting after.
lord_blackfang wrote: 2) Is it just me or do the paintjobs look oddly flat and not at all Contrasty?
The reds and yellows seem to be formulated for good coverage above anything, which I suspect is a way of making these colors work in the first place. As far as I'm aware not all of the current Contrast paints produce equal results either. It's kind of important to learn the specific properties of each paint in order to know how to achieve the effect you want.
But as has been said from the moment Contrast paints were out in the wild, GW's one thick coat marketing doesn't actually do Contrast paints justice.
More blue and green contrast definitely good as those are currently some of the weakest. Asurmen blue in particular looks good, though several of the others don't look that different to the current ones, or indeed that constrast-y.
I've already bought some AP speed paints to fill in colour gaps in contrast though, and I prefer them for the actual one-coat work (as opposed to blending), so I'm not seeing anything in here or the new shades that fills a current need for me personally.
Soulblight grey and a smooth pure white primer would be nice for World Eaters (apothecary is pretty grey) - but I've already got an airbrush and oil washes, so I'm good.
It's going to be a loooong time before I use up my current shades - and they already work well with a bit of contrast medium to add crevice-seeking - but hopefully we'll see some reviews.
More paints is always good but losing Cryptek Armourshade is odd the other 3 at least have non-gloss versions. I rely on Cryptek for my Hedonites scheme so I've just ordered a few bottles.
I know Imperial Fists are very popular these days but three new yellows seems a bit extreme? Especially when they barely look any different to Iyanden and Nazdreg. The purples similarly don't look drastically different; Leviathan Purple looks identical to Magos Purple? By comparison, there's only one orange being added.
Garaghak’s Sewer actually looks quite good. Probably the only standout to me. Ratling Grime is is probably going to get slapped onto a lot of terrain pieces as well.
Dudeface wrote: And a ninja end of range in a pear tree "* The four gloss shades – Nuln Oil Gloss, Agrax Earthshade Gloss, Reikland Fleshshade Gloss, and Cryptek Armourshade Gloss – are leaving the range"
Which is sad because these were really nice for metallics. I guess they sold poorly though because they couldn't be really applied on normal paints without needing to matte varnish over everything you did and hoping for the best.
Soulblight looks like easy one step solution for painting white hair/aquilas, need to try this.
jullevi wrote: Once again GW advertises Contrast paints with horrible paint jobs
Counterpoint - yes, experienced painter can easily make Contrast look much better. However, WC is targeted at new painters and trying to show them expert finish would backfire as a lot of them would be upset when their effort looks nothing like that and would accuse GW of false advertising or photoshopping. Better to show casual effort and just assume better painters know to ignore these pictures anyway.
lord_blackfang wrote: 1) A lot of those don't seem meaningfully different from the existing Contrast range, it's just name bloat
What do you mean 'quick weathering effects'. Weathering effects' are in this sense the proverbial length of string... Limitless.
Weathering would be nice, but hardly groundbreaking as most weathering products already exist, made by much bigger players than gw, plus the video showed nice shiny parade ground armour.
I'm wondering whether its simply a new range of colours, maybe with additional inks for intensity, some new washes etc. Who knows.
As in armour thats taken a beating; scratches, chips and dirt. I've yet to come across such a thing save for lengthy painting tutorials on Youtube, although I wouldn't mind a point in the right direction all the same.
That's what I mean. Weathering could go from the simple sponge dabbed dark brown for chipping, all the way to oil washes and filters, streaking enamels, hair spray or salt chipping, flake paint etc.
chaos0xomega wrote: GW sales rep for local store told them a couple weeks ago that paint was coming in dropper bottles soon. I expect this is where thats heading.
What's that local store's sales rep got to say about adding a bunch of new colors and showing them in pots? Is GW putting out a bunch of new products in old pot containers, so they can just go back and switch it out for dropper bottles? Or is this reveal incorrect showing pots when it should be dropper bottles?
Looks like I wasn't too far off the mark. I'm interested in the purples for my emperor's children, although my current method of using artists ink to super saturate the purple/pink works fine and they last forever, so I'll see.
Jadenim wrote: I’ll be particularly interested in the Beserker Blood shade; I’ve yet to find a good way of shading red.
Same here!
Was thinking about to use that Shade for my HH Word Bearer I plan when HH gets a propper Starter Set.
Waiting on a review of how those go over other colours than white.
For the contrast, that’s fine I want to see it over white.
But the shades I want over existing colours.
Bloodshade might be one I pick up, Koran Green looks more me for Nurgle related washing rather than the Poxwalker shade. (Though I use that Camoshade to good effect currently).
For me of the new Contrast. Garaghak’s Sewer is a clear winner.
Really like how that looks to be coming out.
Maybe a yellow too, Grime, Celestium Blue as mentioned prior by someone for UM shading, Glacier looks great as an ice look, maybe a few other randoms from what’s there..
Nice, I'm starting a new army for the first time in forever so this is as good an excuse as any to try contrast for the first time.
Outside of colours I'd want for my paint scheme, Pylar Glacier looks the most interesting. Very nice affect created.
Agreed Garaghak’s Sewer is the winner, and some lovely greens. The rest is either not meaningfully distinct from old colors (all the blues), literally just diluted versions of old colors, or is flat with no actual shade/highlight on the model (yellows, reds and purples)
Oguhmek wrote: Hmm, that's uh, 5 yellow contrast paints? Do we really need that?
Like the grey shade though, that's nice although it kinda does the same thing as apothecary white?
A lot can vary with contrast, especially based on the colour that settles into the cracks. The current one is very powerfully orangy/red. By changing that shade that settles they can likely get a lot of mileage out of the "same colour" for very different effects and uses .
deano2099 wrote:Best part of the gloss shades is they stained less and went more into the recesses. Then you can matt varnish them. If the reformulated shades do this anyway without the gloss effect then they're really not needed anymore.
edit - realised this hasn't been mentioned on the thread yet - all the existing shades have been reformulated
This is a big thing and I'm actually more interested in it than the new Contrast paints. The new washes appear to settle more into the recesses and stain the raised surfaces less than the current line, while still having similarly smooth gradients. I could definitely be interested in GW washes again if they all behave like that.
I'm hoping the new formula for the existing shades makes them act like the gloss shades. Looks like they might from the previews of the new shades, but if not it's time to hunt through other lines again. I found them quite handy for painting metals and at the time nothing else I tried settled in quite the same way.
Lots of nice new colors with the new paints. Eager to give some of them a try.
trying to differentiate the washes and shades more hecontrastades already kinda did what contrast does, just not as well or as evenly/heavily, etc. I/ appear the intent here is for shades to provide a more definitive shading effect with little/no tintin of raised/unshaded surfaces, whereas the intent is that contrast tints the entire surface.
Where this kinda falls apart is that the effects produced by briar queen chill and pylar glacier look more like the effects of a shade than they do a contrast paint, and Berserker Bloodshade looks more like a contrast.
BrookM wrote: Removal of the gloss shades isn't that surprising, they've not been as useful or great as their regular counterparts.
They're fantastic over metals that you're looking to keep shiny.
They always just look like they are still wet to me, I've never been a fan of the gloss shades without applying a matt finish after they have dried.
***
I'm very excited about the new Shades, it looks like they are more of a match for the OOP Devlan mud-era Washes, in that they sink into the crevices and don't tint the raised areas much. The current GW Shades tend to tint everytjing a little too evenly.
The new grey wash and dark red wash are must-buys, as are Gargagarrkkhhs Sewer, Sigvald Burgundy and Dreadful Visage ( )
lord_blackfang wrote: 2) Is it just me or do the paintjobs look oddly flat and not at all Contrasty?
The reds and yellows seem to be formulated for good coverage above anything, which I suspect is a way of making these colors work in the first place. As far as I'm aware not all of the current Contrast paints produce equal results either. It's kind of important to learn the specific properties of each paint in order to know how to achieve the effect you want.
But as has been said from the moment Contrast paints were out in the wild, GW's one thick coat marketing doesn't actually do Contrast paints justice.
I really wish there was an actual path to learning how to paint models. A lot of the "teaching" tools GW provides don't really give you any real depth or examples. It took me three months to actually find out what an edge highlight even was, and that there were multiple types of them. Another big one is just "how does color work?" because it can be almost damn hard to figure out how to layer and highlight and with which of the 500 colors available to the painter. These range updates are nice, these paints look super fun and I may end up getting some for my HH army to brighten them up. But I really do wish there was more help available for the paintingly challenged out there. I'd paint a lot more if I could actually figure out what I am doing in the first place.
lord_blackfang wrote: 1) A lot of those don't seem meaningfully different from the existing Contrast range, it's just name bloat
2) Is it just me or do the paintjobs look oddly flat and not at all Contrasty?
Especially for the bright colors, it looks like they used them as normal paint and just did 2 thin coats for a flat, even color. You can't see the contrast effect on the model at all.
BrookM wrote: Removal of the gloss shades isn't that surprising, they've not been as useful or great as their regular counterparts.
They're fantastic over metals that you're looking to keep shiny.
They always just look like they are still wet to me, I've never been a fan of the gloss shades without applying a matt finish after they have dried.
Again, they're fantastic over metals *that you're looking to keep shiny*. Personally I don't see much point in using metal paints to the quality of, say, Vallejo Metal Color only to dull them down. You're losing the benefit of more finely-ground pigments and shiny finish.
Jidmah wrote: Ugh, my DG paint scheme is based on Agrax Eathshade Gloss...
Are there any equivalents from other companies?
I mean, you could always pick up a couple of pots now, while it is still around - how much more DG stuff do you have around that needs painting, Jid?
@oni - I've tried asking the WHC Twitter account whether there are any plans for the Cryptek to come out in a non-gloss version, at least. No response as of yet, but I'm fairly sure I asked after they were done for the day.
lord_blackfang wrote: 2) Is it just me or do the paintjobs look oddly flat and not at all Contrasty?
The reds and yellows seem to be formulated for good coverage above anything, which I suspect is a way of making these colors work in the first place. As far as I'm aware not all of the current Contrast paints produce equal results either. It's kind of important to learn the specific properties of each paint in order to know how to achieve the effect you want.
But as has been said from the moment Contrast paints were out in the wild, GW's one thick coat marketing doesn't actually do Contrast paints justice.
I really wish there was an actual path to learning how to paint models. A lot of the "teaching" tools GW provides don't really give you any real depth or examples. It took me three months to actually find out what an edge highlight even was, and that there were multiple types of them. Another big one is just "how does color work?" because it can be almost damn hard to figure out how to layer and highlight and with which of the 500 colors available to the painter. These range updates are nice, these paints look super fun and I may end up getting some for my HH army to brighten them up. But I really do wish there was more help available for the paintingly challenged out there. I'd paint a lot more if I could actually figure out what I am doing in the first place.
There are literally tons of people making videos explaining these things. What else do you want?
Only GW would have the self importance and brass balls to use the marketing hype of "the next generation/evolution of paint" for what is literally a few new paint colours.
Looking at the 'Last Chance to Buy' section of the web store it looks like they're discontinuing a number of Air and Dry paints and the Corax White spray along with the gloss shades.
lord_blackfang wrote: 1) A lot of those don't seem meaningfully different from the existing Contrast range, it's just name bloat
Like what?
Like Pylar Glacier, Kroxigor, Frostheart and Aethermatic Blue all seem to be the exact same pigment in different concentrations.
While that's true, if you're painting a load of Nighthaunt it's quite handy to have something pre-mixed in the right concentration that you can buy off the shelf. Yes, you can just mix Contrast medium and the original paint but you can also just mix white and a colour to get the highlight colour but they still sell them.
BrookM wrote: Removal of the gloss shades isn't that surprising, they've not been as useful or great as their regular counterparts.
They're fantastic over metals that you're looking to keep shiny.
They always just look like they are still wet to me, I've never been a fan of the gloss shades without applying a matt finish after they have dried.
Again, they're fantastic over metals *that you're looking to keep shiny*. Personally I don't see much point in using metal paints to the quality of, say, Vallejo Metal Color only to dull them down. You're losing the benefit of more finely-ground pigments and shiny finish.
Not sure why you felt the need to repeat yourself here? I mean, it's not a difficult concept for me to grasp
Again, they just look wet to me. If it looks good to other people, then great
I was really worried for a second but then I saw they trademarked every color. Phew. Now no one can use rageshade! *Corvus Belli with your fists, I'm looking at you!*
Ghaz wrote: Looking at the 'Last Chance to Buy' section of the web store it looks like they're discontinuing a number of Air and Dry paints and the Corax White spray along with the gloss shades.
ohh feth they're discontinuing sigsmund clear yellow? damn and I was using that for a glaze on my heresy era Imp fists.. they REAAAALLY want me to use Iyaden yellow for a yellow glaze
*quickly buys one of each Gloss Paint... and a Sentinel, as those are going away soon as well*
BrianDavion wrote: ohh feth they're discontinuing sigsmund clear yellow? damn and I was using that for a glaze on my heresy era Imp fists.. they REAAAALLY want me to use Iyaden yellow for a yellow glaze
No they want you to buy the new "Imperial Fist" Contrast paint and glaze with that.
I imagine they're EOL'ing some of the less popular air paints to free up space in the shop paint racks - 29 pots going away, 32 coming in. IIRC the 3rd party shops had to buy new racks quite recently at significant cost, so expanding them again so soon could be unpopular.
Initial look is that many were originally FW air paints that were ended, then brought back into the fold as air and layer paints, the latter which are staying so far - and at least a couple of other ones that started as layers and added air versions. Not surprised if the layer version outsells the air version of a colour, and it's easy enough to dilute your own air paint from a layer.
Similarly with the dry paints - I've noticed on my paint app previously that several in the dry range are identical colours to existing layer paints under a different name.
The standouts are the gloss shades already discussed; if the new shades flow off highlights better into crevices, well, that was one of the advantages of the gloss versions, so you can replicate them by just a gloss coat afterwards if you need it. Cryptek is a bit of a kick for necron players though given it was quite heavily promoted (for a citadel paint)
The three old FW air clears going away also don't have current equivalents. Though with 3 new contrast yellows, an orange and a black, they could be in effect just being refomulated as Contrast, and thus still be airbrushable as a clear with a little extra dilution, or at least close to it. (I quite like using contrast this way already over metallics).
I'm actually a bit glad they're keeping the range size somewhat under control; it's grown quite a lot in the last few years, and some paints literally don't even have one citadel colour guide that uses them. I already have waaaay too many paints as it is, and I am normally a sucker for a new shade that looks useful...
Ironically, I think the most innovative thing here is possibly the white scar rattle can. A pure, intense white paint that also sprays on smooth is actually really hard to do (titanium dioxide, the brightest white pigment is huge, hence tends to clumpy), which is why Contrast was originally formulated to go over off white, and corax, well, is light grey. For people without an airbrush, there's been a whole shade of contrast over pure white that's not really been available unless you go for a high quality 3rd party. A better quality pure white spray is useful for a lot of things!
Ironically, I think the most innovative thing here is possibly the white scar rattle can. A pure, intense white paint that also sprays on smooth is actually really hard to do (titanium dioxide, the brightest white pigment is huge, hence tends to clumpy), which is why Contrast was originally formulated to go over off white, and corax, well, is light grey. For people without an airbrush, there's been a whole shade of contrast over pure white that's not really been available unless you go for a high quality 3rd party. A better quality pure white spray is useful for a lot of things!
I use Halfords or Tamiya for my white spray paint, both are excellent. I'm a bit sad that Corvus White is going away as it's a great off-white and I'm not sure if it's replicated by any other company.
lord_blackfang wrote: 2) Is it just me or do the paintjobs look oddly flat and not at all Contrasty?
The reds and yellows seem to be formulated for good coverage above anything, which I suspect is a way of making these colors work in the first place. As far as I'm aware not all of the current Contrast paints produce equal results either. It's kind of important to learn the specific properties of each paint in order to know how to achieve the effect you want.
But as has been said from the moment Contrast paints were out in the wild, GW's one thick coat marketing doesn't actually do Contrast paints justice.
I really wish there was an actual path to learning how to paint models. A lot of the "teaching" tools GW provides don't really give you any real depth or examples. It took me three months to actually find out what an edge highlight even was, and that there were multiple types of them. Another big one is just "how does color work?" because it can be almost damn hard to figure out how to layer and highlight and with which of the 500 colors available to the painter. These range updates are nice, these paints look super fun and I may end up getting some for my HH army to brighten them up. But I really do wish there was more help available for the paintingly challenged out there. I'd paint a lot more if I could actually figure out what I am doing in the first place.
There are literally tons of people making videos explaining these things. What else do you want?
Some [Me specifically] people have trouble learning from videos. You can't stop a video and ask for clarification. Many videos don't actually show the whole process or skip steps.
What I'd like to see is official GW classes offered at GW stores, multi-session set ups where you could go and learn all the basics from a human standing right next to you, where you could safely experiment and learn and get feedback and advice.
arkhanist wrote: Similarly with the dry paints - I've noticed on my paint app previously that several in the dry range are identical colours to existing layer paints under a different name.
Yes. Several of the Dry paints had equivalents to the Layer paints which were Edge paints when they were first released. They had a chart in an issue of White Dwarf Weekly with the equivalents.
lord_blackfang wrote: 2) Is it just me or do the paintjobs look oddly flat and not at all Contrasty?
The reds and yellows seem to be formulated for good coverage above anything, which I suspect is a way of making these colors work in the first place. As far as I'm aware not all of the current Contrast paints produce equal results either. It's kind of important to learn the specific properties of each paint in order to know how to achieve the effect you want.
But as has been said from the moment Contrast paints were out in the wild, GW's one thick coat marketing doesn't actually do Contrast paints justice.
I really wish there was an actual path to learning how to paint models. A lot of the "teaching" tools GW provides don't really give you any real depth or examples. It took me three months to actually find out what an edge highlight even was, and that there were multiple types of them. Another big one is just "how does color work?" because it can be almost damn hard to figure out how to layer and highlight and with which of the 500 colors available to the painter. These range updates are nice, these paints look super fun and I may end up getting some for my HH army to brighten them up. But I really do wish there was more help available for the paintingly challenged out there. I'd paint a lot more if I could actually figure out what I am doing in the first place.
There are literally tons of people making videos explaining these things. What else do you want?
Some [Me specifically] people have trouble learning from videos. You can't stop a video and ask for clarification. Many videos don't actually show the whole process or skip steps.
What I'd like to see is official GW classes offered at GW stores, multi-session set ups where you could go and learn all the basics from a human standing right next to you, where you could safely experiment and learn and get feedback and advice.
That would require more overhead in the form of an employee to host the class.
Moreover, and at least in Florida where I have the most experience with the few GW stores that are here, is GWs recruitment strategy seems to be "disinterested 20 something's who were hired to man the store and check out product."
H.B.M.C. wrote: *quickly buys one of each Gloss Paint... and a Sentinel, as those are going away soon as well*
BrianDavion wrote: ohh feth they're discontinuing sigsmund clear yellow? damn and I was using that for a glaze on my heresy era Imp fists.. they REAAAALLY want me to use Iyaden yellow for a yellow glaze
No they want you to buy the new "Imperial Fist" Contrast paint and glaze with that.
and iun fairness I will buy a bottle to experiment with,
TalonZahn wrote: Everyone should be using Reaper MSP and/or ProAcryl paints anyway.
Different paint for different purposes, and no one company has a monopoly on all the colours. Reaper MSP is kinda hard to get (UK) but I have a handful. I have most of the ProAcryl range. I also have a ton of vallejo, moderate army painter and GW too.
I'm painting my world eaters atm, and have so far used stynylrez primer, tamiya ocean grey, FW white ink, army painter blue flux through the airbrush, and the next stage will be chipping with various pro acryl. Glorious vallejo metal color for the metallics. Then finally contrast and speed paint for the guns, leather and grenades, Then some oil washes. And probably some good old fashion layer paint for the lenses.
Then onto the bases, which will use a similar eclectic mix across ranges.
Pro acryl make lovely, lovely base paints with ludicrously good coverage, and can be thinned to layers. But I hate mixing paints to get the right shade and do triads, especially as repeating it is a pain on an army scale, and pro acryl does not have a wide range of colours. I love that I don't have to do that any more, and that paints like Contrast exist for the organic bits.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Can someone tell me what the difference between Imperial Fist and Bad Moon Yellow is?
It's harder to absolutely sure without a side by side, but to me Imperial Fists looks lighter and brighter and Bad Moon Yellow looks deeper and to have more of a "yellow gold" hue. I'm quite intrigued by the Bad Moon Yellow, the Fists not so much.
Nice to see some new contrast paints coming, and I'm looking forward to the Mortarion Grime wash. There are four or five of the new contrasts I am interested in and want to check out some reviews on when they come out.
I am sort of surprised the Dry range has survived to this day. Anecdotally, they're not very popular and their unique consistency means they're always a hair's breadth away from turning unusable. That being said, they must be decent for something.
Agamemnon2 wrote: I am sort of surprised the Dry range has survived to this day. Anecdotally, they're not very popular and their unique consistency means they're always a hair's breadth away from turning unusable. That being said, they must be decent for something.
They were always a terrible idea, even though it's called "drybrushing" you don't need or want the paint to be super dry, that's before you get into the problems with them going bad because GW pots suck.
I believe the image at the end of article has one model for each of the Contrast paints, including the current range.
Spoiler:
Based on the image it looks like the yellows are from darkest to lightest:
-Nazreg yellow
-Iyanden yellow
-Iron jawz yellow
-Imperial fists yellow
- Bad moon yellow
The last two don't appear to provide much contrast indeed but the end result looks really smooth.
The word on the street is that influencers have already received their samples. I expect there to be tons of review material once the embargo is lifted.
Jidmah wrote: Ugh, my DG paint scheme is based on Agrax Eathshade Gloss...
Are there any equivalents from other companies?
I mean, you could always pick up a couple of pots now, while it is still around - how much more DG stuff do you have around that needs painting, Jid?
Not that much currently, just a few plague marines, hellbrutes and MBH. I'm more worried about future purchases, like new releases or if I want to get duplicates of things. I apply the wash fairly thickly over two layers of white (possibly one with the new spray?) to have it look like a smeary oil film, for example my landraider took a third of a bottle all by its own.
The pots being unusably bad is overstated a fair bit. I keep a large bottle of Vallejo airbrush thinner on my paint desk, and occasionally throw a few splashes into pots that have started to go bad, but the majority are still great. I think I'm down to my last three or four 90s hex-pots so there's always some attrition, of course (my set of 90s washes and glazes are still perfectly usable, though).
I'm finding I also have paints going bad in dropper bottles, and of course it doesn't take much to clog those nozzles either - some bottles are prone to paint bubbles in the nozzle causing seepage which indirectly leads to clogging.
lord_blackfang wrote: 2) Is it just me or do the paintjobs look oddly flat and not at all Contrasty?
The reds and yellows seem to be formulated for good coverage above anything, which I suspect is a way of making these colors work in the first place. As far as I'm aware not all of the current Contrast paints produce equal results either. It's kind of important to learn the specific properties of each paint in order to know how to achieve the effect you want.
But as has been said from the moment Contrast paints were out in the wild, GW's one thick coat marketing doesn't actually do Contrast paints justice.
I really wish there was an actual path to learning how to paint models. A lot of the "teaching" tools GW provides don't really give you any real depth or examples. It took me three months to actually find out what an edge highlight even was, and that there were multiple types of them. Another big one is just "how does color work?" because it can be almost damn hard to figure out how to layer and highlight and with which of the 500 colors available to the painter. These range updates are nice, these paints look super fun and I may end up getting some for my HH army to brighten them up. But I really do wish there was more help available for the paintingly challenged out there. I'd paint a lot more if I could actually figure out what I am doing in the first place.
There are literally tons of people making videos explaining these things. What else do you want?
Some [Me specifically] people have trouble learning from videos. You can't stop a video and ask for clarification. Many videos don't actually show the whole process or skip steps.
What I'd like to see is official GW classes offered at GW stores, multi-session set ups where you could go and learn all the basics from a human standing right next to you, where you could safely experiment and learn and get feedback and advice.
I can't see any feasible way that they could offer anything other than a basic, base, shade, layer system tutorial, simply due to time, never mind that many gw employees aren't actually that great painters themselves. Plenty of higher standard painters offer classes, but can be pricey. I find the best way is to just do. Experiment, see what works and what doesnt, adjust, set targets. Read articles and watch videos, examine works you like and see the techniques used, try to mimic them. This is the best way to learn in my opinion. It takes time but is worth the graft.
Agamemnon2 wrote: I am sort of surprised the Dry range has survived to this day. Anecdotally, they're not very popular and their unique consistency means they're always a hair's breadth away from turning unusable. That being said, they must be decent for something.
When the Dry range came out it was pretty much the star of the new line, I'm sure you'll still be able to find videos of people talking about how great it was at the time. I suspect the issue is with it drying out - I don't generally have an issue with the Citadel pots drying out, but paints becoming a bit thicker over time does happen, and when these paints become a "bit" thicker they're basically unusable.
Agamemnon2 wrote: I am sort of surprised the Dry range has survived to this day. Anecdotally, they're not very popular and their unique consistency means they're always a hair's breadth away from turning unusable. That being said, they must be decent for something.
When the Dry range came out it was pretty much the star of the new line, I'm sure you'll still be able to find videos of people talking about how great it was at the time. I suspect the issue is with it drying out - I don't generally have an issue with the Citadel pots drying out, but paints becoming a bit thicker over time does happen, and when these paints become a "bit" thicker they're basically unusable.
My Ryza Rust is one of my longest living paint pots, mostly because it doesn't have any way of getting gunked under the lip so it retains a perfect seal (or as near to as it can)
Agamemnon2 wrote: I am sort of surprised the Dry range has survived to this day. Anecdotally, they're not very popular and their unique consistency means they're always a hair's breadth away from turning unusable. That being said, they must be decent for something.
When the Dry range came out it was pretty much the star of the new line, I'm sure you'll still be able to find videos of people talking about how great it was at the time. I suspect the issue is with it drying out - I don't generally have an issue with the Citadel pots drying out, but paints becoming a bit thicker over time does happen, and when these paints become a "bit" thicker they're basically unusable.
I hadn't realized they came out 10 years ago. Egads.
The more I think about it, the more I want to abandon Horus Heresy for now and dig up my mostly unbuilt Tzeentch Arcanites army from the Pile instead. I tried to paint few models couple of months ago but quickly realized that the current range of Contrast paints doesn't have enough vibrant colours to make your eyes bleed.
I should start building so that I have a metric ton of Brimstone Horrors, Flamers and other goodies good to go as soon as the new colours hit the shelves.
Time wil tell if the new white spray is any good, have not used one for 4 years as they completely drown the details of the models compared to the black.
lord_blackfang wrote: 2) Is it just me or do the paintjobs look oddly flat and not at all Contrasty?
The reds and yellows seem to be formulated for good coverage above anything, which I suspect is a way of making these colors work in the first place. As far as I'm aware not all of the current Contrast paints produce equal results either. It's kind of important to learn the specific properties of each paint in order to know how to achieve the effect you want.
But as has been said from the moment Contrast paints were out in the wild, GW's one thick coat marketing doesn't actually do Contrast paints justice.
I really wish there was an actual path to learning how to paint models. A lot of the "teaching" tools GW provides don't really give you any real depth or examples. It took me three months to actually find out what an edge highlight even was, and that there were multiple types of them. Another big one is just "how does color work?" because it can be almost damn hard to figure out how to layer and highlight and with which of the 500 colors available to the painter. These range updates are nice, these paints look super fun and I may end up getting some for my HH army to brighten them up. But I really do wish there was more help available for the paintingly challenged out there. I'd paint a lot more if I could actually figure out what I am doing in the first place.
they've done a pretty good job for me, not perfect but I feel comfortable doing basic table top standard.
Hopefully GW have sent some samples of these out to various painting YouTubers.
They did a much (much) better job of showing the usage and limitations of the existing Contrast Range than GW did.
In particular it will be interesting to see people who are willing to mix it with contrast medium show comparisons of the new darker blues and purples, because they were by far the worst paints in the existing range.
lord_blackfang wrote: 2) Is it just me or do the paintjobs look oddly flat and not at all Contrasty?
The reds and yellows seem to be formulated for good coverage above anything, which I suspect is a way of making these colors work in the first place. As far as I'm aware not all of the current Contrast paints produce equal results either. It's kind of important to learn the specific properties of each paint in order to know how to achieve the effect you want.
But as has been said from the moment Contrast paints were out in the wild, GW's one thick coat marketing doesn't actually do Contrast paints justice.
I really wish there was an actual path to learning how to paint models. A lot of the "teaching" tools GW provides don't really give you any real depth or examples. It took me three months to actually find out what an edge highlight even was, and that there were multiple types of them. Another big one is just "how does color work?" because it can be almost damn hard to figure out how to layer and highlight and with which of the 500 colors available to the painter. These range updates are nice, these paints look super fun and I may end up getting some for my HH army to brighten them up. But I really do wish there was more help available for the paintingly challenged out there. I'd paint a lot more if I could actually figure out what I am doing in the first place.
There are literally tons of people making videos explaining these things. What else do you want?
Some [Me specifically] people have trouble learning from videos. You can't stop a video and ask for clarification. Many videos don't actually show the whole process or skip steps.
What I'd like to see is official GW classes offered at GW stores, multi-session set ups where you could go and learn all the basics from a human standing right next to you, where you could safely experiment and learn and get feedback and advice.
I can't see any feasible way that they could offer anything other than a basic, base, shade, layer system tutorial, simply due to time, never mind that many gw employees aren't actually that great painters themselves. Plenty of higher standard painters offer classes, but can be pricey. I find the best way is to just do. Experiment, see what works and what doesnt, adjust, set targets. Read articles and watch videos, examine works you like and see the techniques used, try to mimic them. This is the best way to learn in my opinion. It takes time but is worth the graft.
I don't think classes are the answer, given how few stores they run, especially in the US.
They could do a lot more with video. You can get a lot of the basic techniques by watching the "how to paint a _______" videos, but a collection that really broke down the basic, like edge highlighting, with more time spent showing the do's and don'ts, macro shots, explanations of how to hold your brush, etc. They have a "master class" under Warhammer+ that did a good job of showing how to wet-blend and talked through the principles in decent detail, but that stuff should be free to draw new people in IMHO. Darren Latham's now deleted videos were the best example, you got to see almost the entire paint job and he provided a lot of good pro-tips, e.g. "paint the crotch webbing now, because if you don't you'll likely screw it up when you paint the white armor plates."
It's easy to forget that coming into the hobby from a cold start is intimidating. There's a 300 page book to read, $300 of models and materials you need to buy, and 30+ hours of building, painting, and reading before you're able to play a game. Anything that streamlines the process is helpful in bringing new blood into the hobby.
The problem with any hands-on skill is that there are always going to be little bits that get left out of any instructional material produced. Video and written form can certainly go further into depth and some teachers have a greater appreciation for highlighting all the smaller steps in a process, not just the big ones.
Plus there's things like simple teaching repetition - eg Duncan's famous "two thin coats" is a fantastic example of where he'd just use the phrase over and over each time in a video, reinforcing the previous content.
However comprehensive guides are rare to get; take a lot of time to produce and still have a flaw in that they are passive not active teaching.
Actually having someone watch you paint, watch you go through the process is often essential and at the very least speeds up a lot of learning. Especially because they can spot you doing things wrong and correct them before they become a habit. They will also spot things you do wrong that you often won't see yourself.
A great one would be loading the brush, too much or too little paint is bad and its very easy to load one way or the other constantly and never realise that the problems it creates with your method.
Videos and books also tend to overlook waiting for paint to dry. Yes they'll say "wait for it to dry" but actually reinforcing when you need to do that; how long you should wait; what it looks like when its dry; etc.... When not to do it etc...
Again its an area someone could be messing up with a lot and not realise they are doing it.
I know GW stores in the UK are often good for basic teaching at the very least as many of their staff are often more into the hobby. I know overseas hiring policies were different and some regions were much more "you're a salesman only - sell, push sell!"
Agamemnon2 wrote: I am sort of surprised the Dry range has survived to this day. Anecdotally, they're not very popular and their unique consistency means they're always a hair's breadth away from turning unusable. That being said, they must be decent for something.
I hope they don't go anywhere. Ryza Rust and Hexos Palesun are how I highlight my Blood Angels.
I think the trouble there is more advanced/detailed tutorials already exist, being incredibly well catered for by the wider community.
In-store stuff isn’t about making you the next Golden Daemon Winner. It’s about the basics. Likewise GW’s videos are about achievable results. Nothing too complex. No additional gubbins required. No thinners, flow improvers etc.
If someone takes to it as a hobby unto itself, it’s not hard for them to find stuff on YouTube to help them develop ever further.
This is something my Well Good Painter friend and I have chatted about Ad Nauseum. I’ve never really got on with painting, because when I started out I didn’t have much in the way of guides or teachers. But watching Duncan’s videos for GW, even though he didn’t exactly teach how to hold a brush, you could see how he holds his etc. Its like the difference between being told “and now blend that in” and being shown someone actually blending in real time.
It’s true not all tutorials are equal. Some are, for my tastes, way too complex, involving mixing up custom colours and a level of detail I frankly will never, ever be bothered with. Others have pretty poor camera positioning, so we’re again back to more being told what’s going on rather than showing.
But there’s enough of them out there that I’m pretty confident everyone will find tutorials to their own taste. And that very variety isn’t something GW can easily provide on their own.
So let GW do what they do best - roping people in in the first place, showing them basic to moderate stuff, then go their own way as they will.
lord_blackfang wrote: 2) Is it just me or do the paintjobs look oddly flat and not at all Contrasty?
The reds and yellows seem to be formulated for good coverage above anything, which I suspect is a way of making these colors work in the first place. As far as I'm aware not all of the current Contrast paints produce equal results either. It's kind of important to learn the specific properties of each paint in order to know how to achieve the effect you want.
But as has been said from the moment Contrast paints were out in the wild, GW's one thick coat marketing doesn't actually do Contrast paints justice.
I really wish there was an actual path to learning how to paint models. A lot of the "teaching" tools GW provides don't really give you any real depth or examples. It took me three months to actually find out what an edge highlight even was, and that there were multiple types of them. Another big one is just "how does color work?" because it can be almost damn hard to figure out how to layer and highlight and with which of the 500 colors available to the painter. These range updates are nice, these paints look super fun and I may end up getting some for my HH army to brighten them up. But I really do wish there was more help available for the paintingly challenged out there. I'd paint a lot more if I could actually figure out what I am doing in the first place.
There are literally tons of people making videos explaining these things. What else do you want?
Some [Me specifically] people have trouble learning from videos. You can't stop a video and ask for clarification. Many videos don't actually show the whole process or skip steps.
What I'd like to see is official GW classes offered at GW stores, multi-session set ups where you could go and learn all the basics from a human standing right next to you, where you could safely experiment and learn and get feedback and advice.
I can't see any feasible way that they could offer anything other than a basic, base, shade, layer system tutorial, simply due to time, never mind that many gw employees aren't actually that great painters themselves. Plenty of higher standard painters offer classes, but can be pricey. I find the best way is to just do. Experiment, see what works and what doesnt, adjust, set targets. Read articles and watch videos, examine works you like and see the techniques used, try to mimic them. This is the best way to learn in my opinion. It takes time but is worth the graft.
I don't think classes are the answer, given how few stores they run, especially in the US.
They could do a lot more with video. You can get a lot of the basic techniques by watching the "how to paint a _______" videos, but a collection that really broke down the basic, like edge highlighting, with more time spent showing the do's and don'ts, macro shots, explanations of how to hold your brush, etc. They have a "master class" under Warhammer+ that did a good job of showing how to wet-blend and talked through the principles in decent detail, but that stuff should be free to draw new people in IMHO. Darren Latham's now deleted videos were the best example, you got to see almost the entire paint job and he provided a lot of good pro-tips, e.g. "paint the crotch webbing now, because if you don't you'll likely screw it up when you paint the white armor plates."
It's easy to forget that coming into the hobby from a cold start is intimidating. There's a 300 page book to read, $300 of models and materials you need to buy, and 30+ hours of building, painting, and reading before you're able to play a game. Anything that streamlines the process is helpful in bringing new blood into the hobby.
I've moaned about this in the past... miniature painting tutorials don't teach you how to paint in general, they just teach you how to paint X specific model. GW tutorials are some of the worst for it IMO.
Most of what I've learned about painting is trial and error over many years, but I could probably teach someone else in a couple of days.
I think miniature painting tutorials generally focus on how to get a specific model on the table using specific paints and specific methods, so miniature painters who don't have an art background miss simple things like creating volumes, diffuse lighting vs specular lighting, value vs colour, how ambient light affects colours (so how to paint models so they look like they exist within a certain environment), how to desaturate colours to make them look more realistic and uniform, utilising different types of contrast like value contrast, colour contrast and warmth contrast, using different varnish types to accentuate lighting, materials, textures (opposed to the simplistic idea of "spray it all matte"), a really important one I think people don't learn is shortcuts and simplifications so if you're painting a whole army what can be done to speed things up, what different artistic interpretations exist and how they can be achieved (like realistic vs enhancing effects, or maybe simplifying certain effects for greater impact).
Things like the intro to art 101 of "how to paint a sphere vs a cone vs a cube vs a cylinder" or "how to paint leather vs fabric vs skin vs metal" or "how to mix colours" is something wargamers might not find out until they've already been painting for years.
I only really started learning that stuff when I started watching canvas oil painting tutorials rather than miniature painting ones.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Is it just me do most of these new contrasts not have much, err, contrast?
Noticed this in the WarCom article which might suggest a pivot in the marketing?
While Contrast paints are designed to tint surfaces and give an intense finish, this new formulation ensures that Shade paints will settle more effectively into the recesses of your miniatures
Or, to maybe take the spin out of it - "we've noticed y'all are buying less Shade since we launched Contrast, so now we've reformulated so you need both."
lord_blackfang wrote: 2) Is it just me or do the paintjobs look oddly flat and not at all Contrasty?
The reds and yellows seem to be formulated for good coverage above anything, which I suspect is a way of making these colors work in the first place. As far as I'm aware not all of the current Contrast paints produce equal results either. It's kind of important to learn the specific properties of each paint in order to know how to achieve the effect you want.
But as has been said from the moment Contrast paints were out in the wild, GW's one thick coat marketing doesn't actually do Contrast paints justice.
I really wish there was an actual path to learning how to paint models. A lot of the "teaching" tools GW provides don't really give you any real depth or examples. It took me three months to actually find out what an edge highlight even was, and that there were multiple types of them. Another big one is just "how does color work?" because it can be almost damn hard to figure out how to layer and highlight and with which of the 500 colors available to the painter. These range updates are nice, these paints look super fun and I may end up getting some for my HH army to brighten them up. But I really do wish there was more help available for the paintingly challenged out there. I'd paint a lot more if I could actually figure out what I am doing in the first place.
There are literally tons of people making videos explaining these things. What else do you want?
Some [Me specifically] people have trouble learning from videos. You can't stop a video and ask for clarification. Many videos don't actually show the whole process or skip steps.
What I'd like to see is official GW classes offered at GW stores, multi-session set ups where you could go and learn all the basics from a human standing right next to you, where you could safely experiment and learn and get feedback and advice.
I can't see any feasible way that they could offer anything other than a basic, base, shade, layer system tutorial, simply due to time, never mind that many gw employees aren't actually that great painters themselves. Plenty of higher standard painters offer classes, but can be pricey. I find the best way is to just do. Experiment, see what works and what doesnt, adjust, set targets. Read articles and watch videos, examine works you like and see the techniques used, try to mimic them. This is the best way to learn in my opinion. It takes time but is worth the graft.
I don't think classes are the answer, given how few stores they run, especially in the US.
They could do a lot more with video. You can get a lot of the basic techniques by watching the "how to paint a _______" videos, but a collection that really broke down the basic, like edge highlighting, with more time spent showing the do's and don'ts, macro shots, explanations of how to hold your brush, etc. They have a "master class" under Warhammer+ that did a good job of showing how to wet-blend and talked through the principles in decent detail, but that stuff should be free to draw new people in IMHO. Darren Latham's now deleted videos were the best example, you got to see almost the entire paint job and he provided a lot of good pro-tips, e.g. "paint the crotch webbing now, because if you don't you'll likely screw it up when you paint the white armor plates."
It's easy to forget that coming into the hobby from a cold start is intimidating. There's a 300 page book to read, $300 of models and materials you need to buy, and 30+ hours of building, painting, and reading before you're able to play a game. Anything that streamlines the process is helpful in bringing new blood into the hobby.
I've moaned about this in the past... miniature painting tutorials don't teach you how to paint in general, they just teach you how to paint X specific model. GW tutorials are some of the worst for it IMO.
Most of what I've learned about painting is trial and error over many years, but I could probably teach someone else in a couple of days.
I think miniature painting tutorials generally focus on how to get a specific model on the table using specific paints and specific methods, so miniature painters who don't have an art background miss simple things like creating volumes, diffuse lighting vs specular lighting, value vs colour, how ambient light affects colours (so how to paint models so they look like they exist within a certain environment), how to desaturate colours to make them look more realistic and uniform, utilising different types of contrast like value contrast, colour contrast and warmth contrast, using different varnish types to accentuate lighting, materials, textures (opposed to the simplistic idea of "spray it all matte"), a really important one I think people don't learn is shortcuts and simplifications so if you're painting a whole army what can be done to speed things up, what different artistic interpretations exist and how they can be achieved (like realistic vs enhancing effects, or maybe simplifying certain effects for greater impact).
Things like the intro to art 101 of "how to paint a sphere vs a cone vs a cube vs a cylinder" or "how to paint leather vs fabric vs skin vs metal" or "how to mix colours" is something wargamers might not find out until they've already been painting for years.
I only really started learning that stuff when I started watching canvas oil painting tutorials rather than miniature painting ones.
The other side of the coin is that "how do I paint a marine" is likely what people google/search for.
Thus is the kind of video that gets noticed by wargamers which then creates a bubble of search terms and key words that search engines are looking for and users are using and thus content creators are making.
It's been a steady influence, but articles on the internet are shaped by search engines now. If you want your stuff to get noticed you have to format, present, title and even include information that fits certain models and structures. If you don't "fit" you might well end up creating content that never gets seen; or which ranks low.
I'd also say that another aspect is that so many in wargaming are self-taught; and art at many schools is very poorly taught (heck many schools basically rely on "natural talent" and talking a lot about symbolism and such). So many people have a lack of understanding of the fundamentals, even if they might have informally cobbled together some understanding of them. Meanwhile those who do have all that knowledge might well already be passing it on; just through schools, colleges, private lessons and such; rather than through the internet.
TalonZahn wrote: Everyone should be using Reaper MSP and/or ProAcryl paints anyway.
Reaper MSP always looked like gakky garbage tier paints to me (the bottling and packaging is very basic, looks like something that someone does in their moms basement), are they really that good?
I've heard nothing but good about ProAcryl, been meaning to pick some up. Thus far I have complete sets of Turbo Dork, Citadel Contrast (only Contrast, don't bother with their regular paints), Vallejo Model Color, P3, and Minitaire. I also have random paints from Cote d'arms (really great paints!), Vallejo Game Color, Vallejo Model Air, some random GW paints that are OOP, Tamiya, and a couple other random ones. Been looking to pick up sets of AK and Scale75 too.
TalonZahn wrote: Everyone should be using Reaper MSP and/or ProAcryl paints anyway.
Reaper MSP always looked like gakky garbage tier paints to me (the bottling and packaging is very basic, looks like something that someone does in their moms basement), are they really that good?
I've heard nothing but good about ProAcryl, been meaning to pick some up. Thus far I have complete sets of Turbo Dork, Citadel Contrast (only Contrast, don't bother with their regular paints), Vallejo Model Color, P3, and Minitaire. I also have random paints from Cote d'arms (really great paints!), Vallejo Game Color, Vallejo Model Air, some random GW paints that are OOP, Tamiya, and a couple other random ones. Been looking to pick up sets of AK and Scale75 too.
I watched Squidmar's video on Paints vs. Paints and Reaper scored pretty high with Pro Acryl and Vallejo so gave them a shot.
I actually like Reaper just a tad more than Pro Acryl now. I was definitely surprised at how well they cover, dry matte and smooth. Their white paints are amazing IMHO.
They do look like "cheap paints" in the way of packaging and labeling, but I don't paint with the labels.
I definitely judged Reaper paint very hard by its bottle. And yes, you don't paint with the bottle, but sometimes you assume that the quality of the product is reflected in the quality of its packaging. If the box (or bottle) a product comes in looks like its bargain basement quality its often safe to assume the contents inside of it are similarly bargain basement.
Reaper paint is top quality. They even had for years, until Anne left last year, their own in house paint chemist. They've started to come out with newer packing mirroring how Scalecolor and Vallejo like to package color sets.
Spoiler:
Honestly I've got a lot of different hobby paint lines and I don't think I've ever found one that was bad but reaper does try to save some money on presentation compared to others.
I definitely judged Reaper paint very hard by its bottle. And yes, you don't paint with the bottle, but sometimes you assume that the quality of the product is reflected in the quality of its packaging. If the box (or bottle) a product comes in looks like its bargain basement quality its often safe to assume the contents inside of it are similarly bargain basement.
Trust me, I did the same.
I'm a Commission Painter by trade now and I have used many brands of paint; Citadel (for 30 years every product), Apple Barrel, Delta Ceramcote, Testors (Enamel and Acrylic), Folk Art, Vallejo (Game, Model, Air), Reaper MSP, Pro Acryl, Army Painter, Badger (Stynylrez and Minitaire), Windsor Oils, Liquitex (Paints and Inks), Dowler Rowney Inks, Bombay Inks, P3, and I may have a problem here... lol
Top 3 for me are Vallejo, Reaper MSP, and Pro Acryl then Citadel would be 4th and only elevated to Top 3 tie for 3rd because they have specific colors or specific uses and they cover those jobs better.
I don't like GW pots or prices, but there are times I just have to have them for a use.
The one bad thing about reaper paints was the labels were printed using one of those printers with heat sensitive paper (not sure if the new packaging also changes that)
meaning it fades really badly so you need to write over the names in pen or a few years down the line you'll have no idea what skin/hair colour is what
Reaper bottles are pure cancer tho, the only line of paint that consistently comes with the dropper already clogged with dried paint. Not to mention the utterly unreadable labels.
lord_blackfang wrote: Reaper bottles are pure cancer tho, the only line of paint that consistently comes with the dropper already clogged with dried paint. Not to mention the utterly unreadable labels.
You are not kidding about those labels. I have my painting room in a location where the sunlight does not get in, and 80% of the Reaper labels look like they were sitting in the sun for a decade.
lord_blackfang wrote: Reaper bottles are pure cancer tho, the only line of paint that consistently comes with the dropper already clogged with dried paint. Not to mention the utterly unreadable labels.
You are not kidding about those labels. I have my painting room in a location where the sunlight does not get in, and 80% of the Reaper labels look like they were sitting in the sun for a decade.
I've used Reaper bottles in summer-time, and ink from those labels will come off on my hands just from a light shake and squeezing out a few drops.
I feel like the new colours are really Contrast 2.0 - their second attempt at a range (and third release, after the two "nighthaunt" paints that preceded them) - so likely they wil have more consistent coverage (except when they're supposed to be those few subtle white-shades) and likely a counter to the Army Paint stuff going on more smoothly - ideally (and also likely) without the reactivation issues.
I've got a few bottles of Reaper with faded labels, but I'm 90% sure they're the first ones I bought about 6-8 years ago. Pretty much all the newer stuff is still perfectly legible, so I suspect they've made a switch some time ago.
Besides, I just keep them in order on the shelf, so I can be pretty sure what I'm picking up without reading the label.
Are the air paints going? They're on lctb, but there was a rumour they were getting repacked in droppers specifically, and they're not mentioned as going in the article.
The Phazer wrote: Are the air paints going? They're on lctb, but there was a rumour they were getting repacked in droppers specifically, and they're not mentioned as going in the article.
It's not their entire air range thats on LCTB though just a few of them, so my guess is they're trimming the range down to "just the most popular" although the decision to remove SOH green right as the bloody Horus Heresy game launches is bafflingly short sighted
The Phazer wrote: Are the air paints going? They're on lctb, but there was a rumour they were getting repacked in droppers specifically, and they're not mentioned as going in the article.
It's not their entire air range that's on LCTB though just a few of them, so my guess is they're trimming the range down to "just the most popular" although the decision to remove SOH green right as the bloody Horus Heresy game launches is bafflingly short sighted
Most of them still remain as layer paints, such as SOH green, so it's just some extra thinner. Even the air paints usually need a bit, and ideally you want to decant into a dropper anyway for airbrush use. The clears and chemos purple on LCTB don't have direct replacements though, which is frustrating for those who use them, though interestingly my paint app chucks up shyish purple as the identical shade to chemos. Coverage would no doubt be different being a contrast, and I wonder if they've done the same with any of the new contrast being the same colour as the old clear. It's an expensive way to do it, but contrast airbrushes rather like a candy coat.
I think it's just to free up rack space and slow range clutter; nearly as many paints have gone LCTB as are being added with the new shades and contrast.
Tannhauser42 wrote: I'm just surprised we're not getting new Contrast paints specially made for the Horus Heresy. Strike while the iron is hot and all that.
Cross-promotion is not GW's strong suit. In fact, given their track record, I'd say it's one of the things they're weakest at.
Or, to put it in a simpler way: GW never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
The Phazer wrote: I would be properly amazed if some of the air colours remaining sold better than Chemos Purple and SOH Green.
It may be the opposite. They're stopping making more of them, but have so much of the others sitting around in a warehouse somewhere that they don't need to go on LCTB for a while yet.
Tannhauser42 wrote: I'm just surprised we're not getting new Contrast paints specially made for the Horus Heresy. Strike while the iron is hot and all that.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a little more to making Contrast paints than just throwing some pigments into some Contrast medium.
Tannhauser42 wrote: I'm just surprised we're not getting new Contrast paints specially made for the Horus Heresy. Strike while the iron is hot and all that.
Cross-promotion is not GW's strong suit. In fact, given their track record, I'd say it's one of the things they're weakest at.
Or, to put it in a simpler way: GW never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
I think sometimes its generated by GW's compartmentalised and secret style of how teams can be working on projects on the same site, but have no idea what other teams are doing. So cross marketing never comes up or if it does its way too late (all the marketing has been produced already) because individual projects are working in isolation from the others.
In the last year or two I'd cut GW some slack because Corona and all has messed things up a lot so chances are just getting anything out is a nightmare of logistics and more. I suspect there's been more than a few projects and marketing material dropped because something had to be moved or cancelled or took longer etc.....
My understanding is that it started in the Kirby days to try and combat rumours leaking out like crazy and then when they got the Lord of the Rings licence it went up to 11 in terms of security because they were working on film stuff months in advance of the films coming out.
I'm guessing some of that lasted, certainly I recall that the Forgeworld and other teams reported that they had no idea Age of Sigmar was happening pretty much up until it was released.
It's a pattern of business that has its up and down sides. Same as how being "creative led" in design terms can mean that creatives work on great models; but might also be a reason why sometimes we see models missing or strange lacks of upgrades. Eg why have Tyranids gone nearly a decade without the last of their finecast being replaced with plastic.
Though of course our external impression of GW can be skewed by out of date rumour and exaggeration so sometimes it might not be "as bad" as we might presume.
Still, compartmentalised teams would be a barrier to cross marketing unless its designed from the very beginning to be cross marketed.
It also leads to departments trying to one up one another, getting pissy when they don't get to make a game, and trying to beat one another to market with products (Ref. Shadow War: Armageddon) rather than working together.
Nighthaunt Gloom and Hexwraith Flame came out with the initial Nighthaunt release.
Ionrach Skin and Deepkin Flesh came out with the initial Idoneth Deepkin release.
Runelord Brass, Canoptek Alloy, Tesseract Glow and Cryptek Armourshade Gloss came out with the Indomitus release.
Orruk Flesh, Hobgrot Hide and Thondia Brown came out with the Dominion release.
I'm probably missing a release or two, but it does seem like they're getting the new paints designed for a specific army out when that army is released.
Dysartes wrote: Sounds like it might be worth pointing out the missing spray, then, HBMC.
Yeah I ended up E-mailing their customer service address.
I mentioned this to Kyoto the other day, but GW is so terrible at so many things that simply by law of averages they have to be good at something, and in my experience that's always been customer service. That lot always seems to get it right, and goes above and beyond to fix mistakes.
I'm guessing some of that lasted, certainly I recall that the Forgeworld and other teams reported that they had no idea Age of Sigmar was happening pretty much up until it was released.
Fw team got told 40k 8e the day it was revealed to wide public and that they were supposed to do index for it.
Kinetochore wrote: I wish they either did Iron Warriors metallic in a can or another, darker silver metallic,
Makes painting terrain and Knight chasis much quicker with a dark metallic, then highlight rather than leadbelcher, nuln oil and highlight.
Army Painter 'platemail?'
I use that for metallic base. Really all their sprays are better (and cheaper)
From what I've seen of the Plate Mail spray, it's not as dark as Iron Warriors
Army Painter's Gun Metal spray and paint? A darker version of Platemail.
I'm not fond of how AP sprays seem to pack up with 1/3rd of the paint left in the spray, but they always match the dropper paint. GW sprays are nothing like the paint pot colours.
vjellejo also does a metallic black (it's an air paint but can be brushed on easily eneugh) proably too dark but Im using on for trim on my heresy era Imp fists
So, in my local GW today I talked to the local manager who had got to play with the paints at the employee meet up, and he says the new contrasts have a much stronger pigment and are over all "better then the first wave" he showed me a primaris Marine he'd done with one of the new greens and yeah it looked pretty nice
'Top Tips for Using the Seven All-new Shade Paints' on Warhammer Community. Some nice suggestions for uses of the new Shades (e.g., they suggest Targor Rageshade is good for light leathers, tanned skin tones and over Rakarth Flesh for Chaos Space Marines).
I use that for metallic base. Really all their sprays are better (and cheaper)
I am not a huge fan of AP sprays and I only use them when I have to. The problem I find is that they are too glossy which means other paints don't adhere well over the top of them. When I paint details in citadel paints over a basecoat of AP, I find the paint rubs off after drying, even from gentle handling. I have to be incredible careful how I handle the models until I can get them sealed with matt lacquer.
Interestingly Duncan mentioned on his site that they'd noticed Nuln Oil having a slightly more gloss finish in recent bottles - this was before the announcement. I wonder if some of the reformulated shades are already in circulation?
deano2099 wrote: Interestingly Duncan mentioned on his site that they'd noticed Nuln Oil having a slightly more gloss finish in recent bottles - this was before the announcement. I wonder if some of the reformulated shades are already in circulation?
All of the new Shades we're seeing are in the 18ml Contrast pots. It wouldn't surprise me that the reformulated Shades such as Nuln Oil will be moving to 18ml pots as well.
My last couple of Aggrax bottles have been glossy, largely rectified by strongly shaking the bottle then mixing in a little medium. But if it is a sign of the new formulation I am not a fan.
deano2099 wrote: Interestingly Duncan mentioned on his site that they'd noticed Nuln Oil having a slightly more gloss finish in recent bottles - this was before the announcement. I wonder if some of the reformulated shades are already in circulation?
All of the new Shades we're seeing are in the 18ml Contrast pots. It wouldn't surprise me that the reformulated Shades such as Nuln Oil will be moving to 18ml pots as well.
I expect they'll cost the same for less when they're released and will get more expensive as part of a, probably the next, annual price increase in February.
Looks like a few more paints have been added to the Last Chance to Buy category. Currently there are 31 Air paints, 7 Dry paints, 4 Shades and 1 Spray in the category.