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Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/01 21:02:38


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


With a new IG codex coming out , along with very shiny new models , and uh... rules changes that invalidate most of my armies this would be a good time to look at back at the book that got me into the IG in the first place.

I first started buying 40k books long before I could afford to keep up with models, so you can see my reviews of the Rogue Trader IG list here:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/769332.page

And the 2nd edition codex here:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/236065.page

But as I said I couldn't get into the models until a few years later along with the release of plastics and of course...



This book!

Now the 3rd Edition Codexes were not great books by any measure. Thin (this one is 48 pages), poorly bound (I had covers come off in my first read), and with few options for your army. BUT they were playable, unlike 1st edition with the rules scattered in a dozen places, or 2nd edition which required 2 box sets and dozens of cards, a 3rd edition codex and the rule book were all you needed.



It also, IMHO saw a real renaissance of GW's storytelling and graphic design. Rogue Trader and many of the other 1st edition books stood out against the other books of the time for their quality of design. 2nd edition books were easier to follow and had clearer rules but lacked the thoughts of the day...

Hope is the beginning of unhappiness


And other in-universe touches.

But 3rd edition brought them back in spades.



Rather than 3rd person omnipotent narration about the Guard we had in-universe letters from officers and guardsmen.



It also had the return of fan armies and conversions!



Not to mention atmospheric art, and the return of Grimdark random bionics.

So pick up your lasgun and let's dig into Codex Imperial Guard 3rd edition.

We'll also dig into some of the mini-dexes from that time.

Oh and this is post #25000 for me, so uh, yay me.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/02 00:54:57


Post by: lasgunpacker


Yay indeed, but isn't this your second main account? Something Something unsupervised internet access?

As for the 3rd edition guard codex, I loved how codexes of this era were just packed with content. With so few pages, there was little to waste. (plus they were cheap too, so you could afford to get random ones to see if you liked the army etc)


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/02 20:28:11


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


And we're back!

The Imperial Guard around 2000 was in transition. The RT metals and plastics were long out of print (other than Yarrick of course), and the 2nd edition metals were... in an odd situation.



There were 5 different regiments, each with their own uniforms and aesthetic, each in hard to convert metal, and not one of the lines was complete. Each one was missing one or more special weapon, not to mention medics, banners and other specialists.



To this GW added plastic Catachans, which at 20 models for ~$25 actually made the army affordable. However like the metals it was a notoriously incomplete set. You get lasguns, knives, flamers and radios but no other special weapons or heavy weapons, or chain swords, or bionics or... Plastic command squads and heavy weapons would not follow for another few years.

But still they were compatible with other GW kits like the Empire Militia, Zombies and even marines in a pinch allowing talented, or not so talented, models for make some unique forces.





They're really not as terrible as some people have claimed. I especially liked how the guns were independent of the hands (Cadians had the hands molded to the guns). The running pose was derpy and the decision to make a whole army of Rambos was questionable (no one thought to wear sleeves in the poison toxic jungle? or a helmet? or a hat even?) but overall it was possible to make some interesting things out of them.

But what do I know, my first army was a Catachan-Zombie kitbash because I hated the idea of the Rambo army so much.



At the time the Force Organization chart was a new addition to the game, forcing players to take lots of troops and limiting their access to heroes and elite units. But this was a problem for the IG who have, arguably, the worst basic troops in the game.

Arguably? Who would be worse? Orks? Maybe? 3rd edition Eldar Guardians?




The codex made up for it with the platoon structure (1st and 2nd edition also had this). A troop choice would be a minimum of a command squad and 2 troop squads (25 models), but could max out with 55 men in a single troop choice! 330 men in an army! Meanwhile the army's HQ unit was a 5-man command squad to which you could add up to 15 heavy weapon teams!




Oddly transports were very limited, you could get an Armor Fist squad of mechanized infantry but only one per platoon, or basically 3 per army.

The army list itself is fairly sparse. Priests, tech priests and most other oddball units were allies found in the main rule book. Troops were the usual 10 man team with 1 special and 1 heavy that had been the template since Rogue Trader and would remain the template until the new codex...



One interesting addition was vet squads. With 3 special weapons, a heavy, hitting on 3+ they were a great way to multiply your force's firepower and include some unique models.



So powerful in fact they were limited to just 1 per army.



The army list was rounded out with a strange selection of special characters. Most of the officers from 2nd edition did not get any special rules, though their models were still around. Lord Solar Macharius had appeared in the 2nd edition book but got a model for the first time in 3rd. Commissar Yarrick kept his RT era model and would not get an upgrade for a few years and poor Nork Deddog...



He got rules but didn't even have a model, just a fantasy conversion with some insanely expensive bits from metal models!



The IG also got Col Schaffer's Last Chancers, a Dirty Dozen sort of elite team who could take on a whole army by themselves (if you played several games and cheated like a dog to give them a chance)!

Overall it was a fun but flawed list with some neat opportunities but strange limitations.

Join us next time when we close out the codex and start to look at some of the many (MANY!) supplemental books that would build on it.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/03 15:33:59


Post by: Zenithfleet


A great read as always, Kid.

In my younger days I didn't get the appeal of the Guard. Why play as ordinary guys when you could play as unfeasibly cool stabby aliens? As I got older, though, I slowly started to feel more and more sympathetic to the ordinary guys who were up against the unfeasibly cool stabby aliens.


Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Now the 3rd Edition Codexes were not great books by any measure. Thin (this one is 48 pages), poorly bound (I had covers come off in my first read), and with few options for your army. BUT they were playable, unlike 1st edition with the rules scattered in a dozen places, or 2nd edition which required 2 box sets and dozens of cards, a 3rd edition codex and the rule book were all you needed.


Agree 100%. I reckon 3rd ed had the most practical codexes for actual physical gaming (if you ignore the dodgy cover binding). Short, light, quick to flip through, and (most) stats and special rules in a single entry for each unit. None of the annoying flipping back and forth between the 'bestiary' and the 'army list' that you got in 2nd and 4th.

The limited space--due to the need to get heaps of codexes out in a hurry to replace the 2nd ed books--also inspired the writers to come up with creative ways to give you all the info you needed without reams of text. I particularly like the 'letter home to the farm', which fills you in on all sorts of info on troop mobilisation, warzones, settlements, etc., in a few paragraphs while disguising it as Luke Skywalker's grand day out.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
the decision to make a whole army of Rambos was questionable (no one thought to wear sleeves in the poison toxic jungle? or a helmet? or a hat even?)


Bah, Amazonian tribes get by just fine without any pants.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
The IG also got Col Schaffer's Last Chancers, a Dirty Dozen sort of elite team who could take on a whole army by themselves (if you played several games and cheated like a dog to give them a chance)!


I'm sure you'll get to them, but the Last Chancers got their expanded rules in White Dwarf around the same time. I don't know what quantity of doglike cheating was needed for that version.

I also liked the article in WD (by Jervis I think) about making an army to represent a lone garrison on a frontier world somewhere, with eccentric habits like riding alien velociraptors. (Yes, I'll take any excuse for cool stabby aliens.)

Early 3rd ed seemed to have a 'frontier world' vibe in general, maybe due to the style of terrain shown in WD articles and battle reports. Lots of isolated farms and hab-units among the rocks and trees. It shifted more and more toward heavily built-up city ruins in late 3rd, though.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Join us next time when we close out the codex and start to look at some of the many (MANY!) supplemental books that would build on it.


You'd better not forget the Xenonian warrior women. Or possibly Xenanian.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/03 21:23:37


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


And we're back to close out the IG Codex.

As I said one welcome thing about this generation of Codexes was the return of fan armies, conversions and atmospheric art. 2nd edition codexes seems to have a policy against showing conversions (why tease fans with models that don't exist) only allowing a few to creep in late in the game and even then with little chaos star asterisks to mark them.



But in this book they're on proud display.





The World War II themed Tsargrad table gets a 2 page thread.



There is even this odd reference to something called the 'real world' as a possible source of inspiration. Which is odd since GW corporate officers have said, under oath, that their creations are original with no prior inspiration. I'm probably just misreading it.




Even better there is a 2 page series of IG regiments from across the galaxy.



While some are existing regiments like the Praetorians...



And others could be made with existing models like RT guard...



Most are just flights of fancy to inspire fans and models.

I personally think the redacted guys should be some sort of Ordo Xenos storm troopers, unmarked and anonymous sent in to clean out whole districts after a Xenos infestation.





I like how some Necromunda gangs sneak in, and if you squint you'll find the first appearance of the Death Korps of Krieg in there too.



And on the next page the somewhat less successful Woad Warriors who believe that faith can conquer bullets. And yes, he is wearing a helmet and body paint and nothing else. You can do a search for Celtic Woad, but I wouldn't do it at work if I were you.

I also like the guys whose world was purged. Geeze. What's a few extra spikes among friends man?



And there's a whole spread of different Rough Rider units.



And tankers!

Like I said the thinnest of the IG books, but in many ways the one with the most potential.

I praised the art earlier so let's close out with some more examples. I scanned and uploaded them darnit, so I'm going to use them!















One lousy thing about 40k since at least the Space Wolf Codex in 2nd edition is that while marines use 90% of the same models, different colored marines get their own rules. While guard, who might use totally different models in different armies use the same rules.

Well join us next time when we take a look at Codex Catachan Jungle Fighters with the first attempt to really differentiate the regiments.



Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/04 01:08:51


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I always liked how the example soldiers were in some variation of a ready stance, but the Mordian was at full attention!


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/04 13:47:07


Post by: Nevelon


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I always liked how the example soldiers were in some variation of a ready stance, but the Mordian was at full attention!


As it should be. Would you expect anything less?


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/04 19:34:38


Post by: Grimtuff


C'mon KK, you don't point out the Lucky 13s (fourth row, far right) in that lineup of regiments. The guys with the huge hats who suffered massive losses in the battle of the low corridor.

That one seems like an open goal for you.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/04 22:02:05


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


And we're back!

At this time putting out a plastic set was a major investment for GW and when they did they tried to get the most out of it. So naturally the Plastic Catachans were not just featured in the IG Codex (actually they're not really featured that much, Cadians even got the cover) they got their own codex!



I can see it now...

James Workshop - The Imperial Guard are our horde army, but for many Light Years have only been available in costly metal. Though it pains me to imagine the Great Unwashed paying less, I feel the time has come to make the Imperial Guard... but in plastic!
Minion - Excellent sir I will have the boys start on plastic Cadians right away.
James Workshop - I say thee... nay.
Minion - But sir the Cadians are clear rip offs of the Colonial Marines from Aliens, everyone wants them in plastic.
James Workshop - Nay. (Lights cigar with £100 note) Why should the Great Unwashed want well-equipped sci-fi troopers? Such a thing is not needed in this year of our Lord 2000. No I have my finger on the pulse of our culture and I tell you what the Great Unwashed wants is... Rambo.
Minion - Rambo sir? The guy from the top grossing movie of 1985?! 15 years before this current year which is 2000? Rambo?
James Workshop - (Taking a long drag of his Cuban cigar). Aye, the children of today, which as you said is the year 2000, want more Rambo.


And so we got Codex Rambo. Which is certainly a Codex. With paper and staples and everything.

What's the difference you ask between an Imperial Guard army (which happens to have Catachans in it because they cost half as much as metal guys and can be converted) and a Catachan Imperial Guard army?

Perhaps this visual aid will help.



Catachan Jungle Fighter Imperial Guard Army



Catachan Death World Veterans Army

Notice the difference? Notice anything missing?

Have you ever wondered what it would be like to play an Imperial Guard army but with no tanks, or artillery or any of the units that actually work? AND you get to pay more for the squishiest troops in the game? Well this is book for you!

(Needless to say I was not a fan, nor was anyone else, I think I saw one Death World Vet army in all my years)



And from the beginning the problem is clear. The book is half Codex Catachan Death World Jungle Fighter Veteran Rambos and half Battlezone Jungle Fight and half modelling guide and half fluff.

The jungle fighting rules are interesting.



There's a random table for man-eating plants and such (because of course there's a random table), rules for seeing through the jungle (you can't), rules for getting spooked as you hike through the jungle (Dark Eldar roaming through the jungle wearing the flesh of people they've skinned are notoriously skitish you know), fluff for various beasties (but no rules ) and all kinds of stuff that makes a jungle fight a lot different from other battlefields.

And then the other half of the book is for the Jungle Fighting Veteran Rambo Catachans who ignore all these things



In exchange they are under different limits. No tanks, no artillery, no las cannons (for some odd reason), smaller and more expensive squads. Basically taking away all the things IG players are used to and leaving them with slightly less terrible infantry.

So if you fight them in the Jungle (having made a custom jungle table and rolled on the random chart) they are god-like , but if you face them is say... a city, or an open field, not so much .



Needless to say an army that requires a table of custom terrain and where your opponent will be at a distinct disadvantage just for showing up was never all that popular.

Still the Veteran Jungle Death World Rambo Fighters did have some interesting ideas.



Veteran squads (there's like 3 or 4 kinds) could ambush from hidden locations and had heavy flamers, special weapons and demo charges (basically a thrown battle cannon round that had a decent chance of blowing up your own squad if you rolled poorly). I especially like the rule that once a model throws his demo charge you have to replace it with identical model that does not have a demo charge. And if you don't have an extra model then you remove him as he goes home for a well-earned grox burger.

That's some choice GW nickle and diming right there!



But then there's stuff like the commissar rule. Roll a die for each commissar, on a 1 he's met an unfortunate accident before the battle and dies.





And of course no Catachan Jungle Veteran Death Fighter World list would be complete without the dynamic duo of Col Iron Hand Straken and Sly Marbo, who is totally NOT inspired by ANYTHING. We have that under oath.



The art is also very evocative, just look at that dude burning down the village to save it!





I have to praise the modeling section too. There are some great conversions in there, I really like the dino riders. They almost make me forget that that Veteran World Jungle Fight Deathers list doesn't have rough riders. Almost.



The fluff is also great with lists of various beasts



A guide to Catachan knives



And booby traps.

But still it quickly becomes clear how thin the idea of Codex Everyone is Rambo really is. When the army list consists of Death World Veteran Command HQ, Catachan Devils Squad, Death World Veteran Assault Team, Death World Veteran Snipers, Death World Infantry Platoon, and Death World Veterans Patrol... all of which are the same guys in t-shirts and bandanas things are feeling a bit too samey. (OK there were Ogryn and heavy weapon teams too.)



There were rules for including Catachans in normal IG armies which let you pick the best of the book and ignore the limits which I think is what most folks did.

With some work this could have been a stronger book with options that were competitive in all environments. For example give them advantages in all cover, not just jungles, give them universal infiltrate and/or outflank. Include some nasty beasts (Lizardmen models maybe?) and poison weapons and make this the guerilla/ambush army and I think it may have gone further.

And while I still say the plastic Catachans were Not Terrible, that isn't really the same thing as good. A few hat or helmet heads, guys with sleeves, a body with a closed flak jacket, leaner muscles, all these things would have made for a better kit.

But still it was an interesting book and it's obvious the artists and modellers had a blast so it's not all bad.

Come back next time when we take a look at the Catachan's opposites!


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/04 23:27:05


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Come back next time when we take a look at the Catachan's opposites!
You're going to look at Codex: Cadia from the EOT book?


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/05 03:32:57


Post by: Pariah Press


I assume it's the Armageddon Steel Legion from Codex Armageddon next?


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/05 03:53:17


Post by: aphyon


I own a copy of the 3rd ed chapter approved that has the vehicle design rules but more importantly it has the guard armored company list, and the rules for schaffers last chancers.


We like to use the latter for some of our kill team games as one of the guys has all the old minis.




Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/05 04:26:55


Post by: Jarms48


This was a nice codex. But the second third edition one will always be one of my favourites.

You should add the Chapter Approved/WD rules intended for this codex here. Like the original armoured company rules.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/05 17:29:04


Post by: Easy E


I built an entire table of jungle terrain thanks to this book and the rules. I used it once, as everyone refused to play on it.

I didn't even have a Catachan army so I suffered just as much as everyone else!

Some photos playing a different skirmish game on the board......







Sadly, that board is now long gone thanks to a move. I used floor tiles to make is modular, so it was heavy as heck! I kind of wish I still had it around.

:(




Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/05 19:52:43


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


And we're back!

Last time we looked at the IG army with no tanks that kind of sucked, so now let's look at the reverse the IG army with mandatory tanks that was kind of awesome.

(We'll have to wait a little bit to get to the inverse, the IG army that was all tanks and kind of sucked)

Yes it's time for...



CODEX: WHO THE HECK IS RUNNING THE IMPERIAL MINISTRY OF TOURISM?!

Armageddon? You named your planet Armageddon? What was Planet Death Planet already taken?





Armageddon of course was not a new creation for this codex, it first popped up in a GW board game in 1992



Part of a series of cardboard chit style games that GW did and were generally forgotten (OK Horus Heresy got a plastic mini remake from FFG). Battle for Armageddon might have been too but for introducing these two dudes.



Yarrick and Ghazghkull!

GW successfully made them the break out stars of the game with rules for Rogue Trader 40k and Epic.





There's some nice art for them too, Yarrick is seen here in custom Rhino, the Outpost of Confidence.



They reappeared in 2nd edition codexes and were semi regular presences in army lists and such and 8 years later with this codex they got new models or a 'glow up' as the hip kids like to say.

So come back next time as we dig into Codex Armageddon!


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/05 23:48:55


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Yarrick and Ghazghkull!

GW successfully made them the break out stars of the game with rules for Rogue Trader 40k and Epic.
And just recently one of them got a stonking great new mini, and the other was killed off-screen.



Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/06 03:07:34


Post by: Jarms48


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
(We'll have to wait a little bit to get to the inverse, the IG army that was all tanks and kind of sucked)


Make sure you do the initial version for the 3rd edition (first codex) before doing the updated version for the 3rd edition (second codex).
Note. There was actually 3 versions, there were 2 for the 3rd edition (second codex) which had adjusted points and doctrines.

- The initial armoured company rules, intended to go with the 3rd edition (first codex) had weird and wonderful rules. Chapter Approved 2001.
- Updated armoured company rules, intended to go with the 3rd edition (second codex) removed all the special rules and tweaked the army list. Chapter Approved 2004.
- Online update for the 3rd edition (second codex) armoured company rules. Adjusted some point values, added doctrines. GW website.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/06 04:31:28


Post by: H.B.M.C.


'Lucky Glancing Hits'. Certainly not a rule I'd call 'wonderful'.

Give me the Armoured Battlegroup list from Imperial Armour Volume 1 any day!


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/06 06:51:16


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


For the record I'm only going to take this up to (but not including) the 3.5 codex. Basically Codex Black Crusade and the plastic Cadians will be my cut off.

I may try and dig out some of the WD rules for Drop Troops and other regiments but we'll see. Not sure if I still have my old Imperial Armor books, I'll have to see about those too.

But that is still A LOT!


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/06 08:44:07


Post by: Dysartes


It is worth noting that Armageddon was the setting for the intro scenarios within the 2nd edition starter set, where you played as Blood Angels vs. the Orks.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/06 15:11:16


Post by: Strg Alt


 Dysartes wrote:
It is worth noting that Armageddon was the setting for the intro scenarios within the 2nd edition starter set, where you played as Blood Angels vs. the Orks.


And this batrep was the birth of Tycho.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/06 17:07:05


Post by: Racerguy180


H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Yarrick and Ghazghkull!

GW successfully made them the break out stars of the game with rules for Rogue Trader 40k and Epic.
And just recently one of them got a stonking great new mini, and the other was killed off-screen.


Too soon man....too soon


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/06 18:42:03


Post by: Easy E


I can't believe they killed Ghazghull off screen!




What...... oh.......





Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/06 20:49:48


Post by: Memnoch


Some really fond memories of playing against IG from the 3rd edition codex.

The Catachans codex on the other hand was a very mixed bag. Cool idea in theory but utterly woeful against anything wearing power armour. Requiring a full jungle themed table was near impossible as well considering the only gaming store near us for 3 hours only had 1 set of Citadel trees for sale for a stupid price.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/06 21:02:46


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Now I know there are some reports of Yarrick's death and it has upset a lot of people.

Some people claim this shows GW has become more mercenary and money grubbing than they were back when they required people with demo charges to buy a second model to depict it after it was thrown.

Frankly I blame the poor state of our school system and not teaching the classics.



I rolled a 4, he's fine.

And now let's dig into Codex Armageddon!

This is an article about Codex Armageddon you will remember.



Which raises some interesting questions. Now we all know that they don't speak English or Latin in the 41st Millennium, they're speaking some unknowable language that's about as comprehensible to us as a caveman grunting in proto-Indo-Europian. The English and Latin are just there for our convenience.

So what if Planet Armageddon is not actually named Armageddon but call Sigma Five or whatever, however after the two massive wars (sorry! ONE massive war, ONE!) Sigma Five has become synonymous with Armageddon. Maybe?

Or maybe the Imperial Ministry of Tourism is just really, really bad at their jobs.



Anyway hive world, important industrial center, two (ONE! I meant ONE!) massive invasions and now it's time for one more.



The Third (Second! ) War for Armageddon was a massive worldwide campaign with this Codex introducing 4 new ones. Ork Speed Freaks, Salamander Space Marines, the Broken Masters of Cheese and Lazy Painting, and what we are here for, the Steel Legion.



These guys don't look doomed at all. Nope.



I don't have much (OK anything) to say about the Speed Freaks.



The Salamanders were interesting for the first dark skinned marine chapter we've seen.



And as for the Grand Masters of Broken Rules...



Fall Forward, always hit on 3+, fearless in melee, 6+ invulnerable save, invisible powerfists...



And a mandatory special character. Which just raises so many questions.

High Marshall - Bob-
Roberticus - Roberticus sire.
High Marshall - Right, Roberticus, I need to you lead a patrol to sector 7g, get some guys and a rhino.
Roberticus - Yes sire, will you instruct the Emperor's Champion to accompany us?
High Marshall - The Emperor's Champion is defending the pass.
Roberticus - What about the other Emperor's Champion?
High Marshall - Attacking the Orks.
Roberticus - But what if we encounter the enemy? We cannot go into battle without the Emperor's Champion!
High Marshall - Sigh. I have an extra black swords and iron halo in my foot locker.
Roberticus - But who shall wield it?
High Marshall - Steve-
Roberticus - Stephanicus?
High Marshall - Stephanicus has been looking pretty pious lately, just hand them to him, tell him the Emperor chose him or whatever.
Roberticus - As you wish sire.


So yeah...

Maybe something good came of them eventually, but it sure ain't here.

Huh.

OK, it's time for bed, so maybe tomorrow I'll finally get to the Iron Gu- uh Steel Legion.



Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/06 21:58:50


Post by: H.B.M.C.


No mention how the crushing gravity of the Salamander homeworld makes them very strong and therefore... slower... in normal gravity?


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/07 02:51:11


Post by: Waaagh_Gonads


Golden age of gaming for me.

Loved my Praetorians done in khaki with Ratskin 'native' levy platoon attached.

Just sold off all my 3rd ed codexes couple months back as will never get time to read them again. :(

Thanks for the review, many happy memories back.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/07 15:23:35


Post by: Easy E


I wouldn't be sad if 10th edition 40K was just a word for word reprint of 3rd or 5th edition.


LOL


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/07 21:12:38


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


And we're back with the long-awaited review of the Iron Grenadier army list!



As noted the 3rd ( 2nd!) War for Armageddon was kind of an Imperial All-Stars Review with everyone and their cousins jumping in.



Besides Saint Yarrack (had he been sainted yet, it seems like he should have been sainted by now)...



We had battle fleets...



A half page of different Ork warbands



And this page with 24 (!!) Space Marine Chapters, 24 IG regiments (!!), also-rans like the SoBs and Arbites, guys like Skitarii and Ordo Xenos Kill Teams who wouldn't get rules or codexes for years, guys like the Officio Sabatorum and the Templars Psychologis who haven't been seen since but I would buy in a heartbeat, and basically more new fluff in a half page then we get in whole books.

Some of the guys here who get a single line of mention, like the Death Korps, the Savlar Chem Dogs, the Celestial Lions and Elysian Drop Troops would go on to get models, books, and a whole fandom.



There was a site that even had fluff and rules for some of them. An Ogryn regiment with no guns but 2 CC weapons, Ork Hunters who used Ork weapons against them, the poor doomed Celestial Lions, Ork Talla-Portas, all kinds of cool stuff.




I really liked this campaign.



but the guys we are here to see are the Armageddon Iron Gua-, no I mean the Meta-, (Checks Notes) Steel Legion!




Due to Armageddon's poisonous ash wastes the Steel Legion wore full body suits and gas masks and were required to ride around in Chimeras.



Rules wise they weren't that different, not as much as Catachans were. Basically any unit that could buy a Chimera had to, any unit that normally could not was now allowed to (except for rough riders, who were assumed to keep on their horses).



At the time the base 3rd edition rules treated all vehicles the same except for their stats, but with this codex the Chimera got a half page of special rules from firing out the top hatch to being amphibious.



The Steel Legion models were fan favorites and you can see why. Covered head to toe there was none of that pesky flesh to paint. Their proportions were a bit more normal than the 2nd edition metals, and they had a distinct World War II style (good taste and a desire to remain on topic prohibit me from saying which WWII army they resemble).

The puzzling part of course is why they were done in metal rather than plastic. Like other metal lines the Steel Legion was always incomplete, lacking the full range of special and heavy weapons, to say nothing of models like standard bearers and medics. While plastics technology then was a bit more limited there's no reason GW could not have made a kit on par with the Brettonians or High Elf Archers. But they didn't, and so trench coated, gas masked plastic guard was but a dream until the 2020s.

This was definitely a high water mark for the guard. Over the months to come there would be conversion articles and rules additions for armies like the Elysian Drop Troops, the Chem Dogs and others. The Black Library launched series like Gaunt's Ghosts. And Forge World started cranking out tank after tank for the IG with rules in an affordable soft cover!

So join us next time when we say, Tanks for the Memories!


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/08 06:33:45


Post by: aphyon


 Easy E wrote:
I wouldn't be sad if 10th edition 40K was just a word for word reprint of 3rd or 5th edition.


LOL


Nobody says you can't just do that yourself. the books are easy enough to find as are the minis.

I own hard copies of codexes for just about every army in the game from various editions.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/08 08:21:03


Post by: tneva82


Books are easy.

Opponents are harder.

Unless 10e is word to word reprint of 3e finding opponents for 3e would be hard.

Were 10e word to word reprint of 3e suddenly basically every 40k player would be potential opponent...


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/08 10:29:43


Post by: aphyon


That requires community building, many of the current players would probably love 3rd if they even knew about it.

Obviously, you need a strong active local scene but having the books on hand and a desire to teach does draw people.

Showing them what their army "could be" and all the options GW has removed is a big draw to most players. the 3rd and 4th ed codexes, chapter approved, index astartes etc.. have some of the most interesting army list options


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/08 15:19:54


Post by: Easy E


 aphyon wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
I wouldn't be sad if 10th edition 40K was just a word for word reprint of 3rd or 5th edition.


LOL


Nobody says you can't just do that yourself. the books are easy enough to find as are the minis.

I own hard copies of codexes for just about every army in the game from various editions.


Who says I don't when I am playing at home. I actually use my 40K minis with a wide variety of games.


However, I think we all know that is a bit different from being the "official and Tourney legal" rules. I would also say, unless you have the store or club owner's permission it might be a bit disrespectful to build a community for a game that is not being sold in their store? Your mileage may vary on that opinion though.





Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/09 06:51:43


Post by: aphyon


We have a FLGS with a large community since we all play a bit of everything as well as the store sells a bit of everything (card games, dice, terrain, board games, RPGs as well as minis for various systems etc..) This has never been a problem...and it isn't like you cannot use the new minis to stand in for the old minis if you need to.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/09 15:15:39


Post by: Easy E


It may feel like we have a difference of opinion, but we really don't. If anything, we are fellow travelers on the road to wargaming fun!

If someone has the time and energy to build the community, then I am all for it! It just is not me anymore.



Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/12 09:07:18


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


And we're back!

I'd actually forgotten about this book till HBMC mentioned it, but it's certainly an important one that 20 years (22... 23... but who's counting) later is still affecting the 40k universe, so let's dig into...



Imperial Amor is a deluxe, fully illustrated book of slash fiction featuring all 18 primarchs, several Dark Eldar Incubi and-

(rechecks notes)

Imperial Armor is a deluxe, fully illustrated book collecting rules for various Forgeworld resin tank kits in one place. Previously most had appeared in the Citadel Journal in-house fanzine, but in 2000 they were collected in a nice, thick, paperback with a full color section, illustrations and some nice photoshopped models too.

(It's going to be hard to remember the British U in Imperial Armour, let me know if I miss it)



That Krieger is not wearing his gas mask!



Jervis Johnson kicks it off with an enthusiastic essay about the Bovington Tank Museum which puzzled me since it seems to imply that the sculptors, artists and writers found inspiration from the real world, which we all know is not the case.



Besides Leman Russ variants



So many Leman Russ variants...



So, so many Leman Russ variants...



The book included fixed artillery platforms



Support vehicles...



Superheavies...



Fliers



And even superheavy fliers!

It's hard to think of a book that has added as much to the Guard as Imperial Aurmour did! The fact that the Imperial Guard alone got a book, while everyone else (including Marines) were shoved into Imperial Aumuour 2 shows what a labor of love this was.




It is a fun book. Even if you could not get opponent's permission for the superheavies, fliers and superheavy fliers, there were some great little additions to your army like a fast Chimera variant.





Many of the vehicles originally appeared as part of the Epic 6mm scale game in the early 90s but were only now appearing in 28mm. The fact that so many eventually made into the mainstream army list, and in plastic, shows how important Impuerial Aurmuour was.



Yeah sometimes the book felt a little padded, with a 2 page spread on a Chimera with a new hat. Then another 2 page spread on a Chimera with a different new hat.



Or a full colour spread showing how many different shades of green and grey you can paint your models in.










But with this much cool photography and art I don't think anyone was complaining too much

Yep, Iumpueriual Aurmuour was definitely $20 well spent!

Of course right around the same time there would be little rules addition that would blow thing wide open... So come back next time for Chapter Approved!


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/12 17:05:23


Post by: Easy E


I still love the Thunderer and Destroyer models.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/12 20:05:18


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I have one of those full resin Baneblades. Not nearly as difficult to put together as the full resin Stormblade...


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/12 20:25:28


Post by: Grimtuff


Am a Brit, can confirm all of those U's are in the correct places KK. Good job!


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/12 20:44:05


Post by: Flinty


I would definitely like to pre-order Impuerial Aurmuour.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/12 21:13:12


Post by: Insectum7


Great thread. Looking forward to your review of Chapter Approved. I've still got all these books so far!


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/13 07:23:18


Post by: Jarms48


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
And we're back!

I'd actually forgotten about this book till HBMC mentioned it, but it's certainly an important one that 20 years (22... 23... but who's counting) later is still affecting the 40k universe, so let's dig into...


Don't forget the Imperial Armour Update books too.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/13 08:34:11


Post by: tneva82


 Grimtuff wrote:
Am a Brit, can confirm all of those U's are in the correct places KK. Good job!


Nope. One armor left. Bit under "Amor". Imperial Amor? Yikes! What a thought!

Good book this was.

(Iumpueriual Aurmuour now that's just putting u's for lolz I presume )


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/13 11:03:54


Post by: Miguelsan


Aurmuour sounds like something a French would say about love.

M.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/13 17:04:45


Post by: warhead01


My friend just said something about playing a game of 5th. Just found my 3rd, 4th and 5th edition books for IG. At first I thought I would have to use my 3rd edition codex as that and my 13th black crusade supplement was all I could find. I had forgotten that conscripts back in 4th could take 1 special weapon per 10 models.
Interesting. May have to fix a few conscript dudes with flamers as I have none currently.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/13 19:04:06


Post by: Haighus


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:




And this page with 24 (!!) Space Marine Chapters, 24 IG regiments (!!), also-rans like the SoBs and Arbites, guys like Skitarii and Ordo Xenos Kill Teams who wouldn't get rules or codexes for years, guys like the Officio Sabatorum and the Templars Psychologis who haven't been seen since but I would buy in a heartbeat, and basically more new fluff in a half page then we get in whole books.

Some of the guys here who get a single line of mention, like the Death Korps, the Savlar Chem Dogs, the Celestial Lions and Elysian Drop Troops would go on to get models, books, and a whole fandom.


There is another force disposition list for the 3rd War that is (I think) a bit later in the campaign, following the first Season of Fire- found in Epic: Armageddon from 2003. It is similar but actually larger, with some swapped units:

Spoiler:


Notable additions being Valhallans and Necromundan Spiders, who presumably had only just arrived in theatre.

The Officio Sabatorum gets mentioned in a few places, like the Last Chancers novels. I don't think the Templars Pyskologis are mentioned from any other warzone. They sound awesome though. I'd love to see models for both.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/13 19:14:26


Post by: Nevelon


Always nice when the necromundan spiders get some love.

No school like old school.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/13 19:37:12


Post by: Haighus


 Nevelon wrote:
Always nice when the necromundan spiders get some love.

No school like old school.

I'm still hoping we get a squad of them for the Necromunda game, that could obviously be built as Imperial Guardsmen. Would fit well with the current Ash Wastes setting as a Spiders Ash Waste patrol- would be the equivalent of Enforcers but out in the wastes. Makes a lot of sense with a succession crisis alongside an uprising from the dispossessed rebels outside the hives.

I think it would be an excellent chance to return combi-weapons, stormbolters, and heavy weapons with suspensors to the Imperial Guard, to represent troopers recruited on advanced worlds.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/14 02:14:18


Post by: Insectum7


 Haighus wrote:
 Nevelon wrote:
Always nice when the necromundan spiders get some love.

No school like old school.

I'm still hoping we get a squad of them for the Necromunda game, that could obviously be built as Imperial Guardsmen. Would fit well with the current Ash Wastes setting as a Spiders Ash Waste patrol- would be the equivalent of Enforcers but out in the wastes. Makes a lot of sense with a succession crisis alongside an uprising from the dispossessed rebels outside the hives.

I think it would be an excellent chance to return combi-weapons, stormbolters, and heavy weapons with suspensors to the Imperial Guard, to represent troopers recruited on advanced worlds.
Are the super ancient plastic Guardsmen noted to be Necromundan Spiders? The old gray uniform and black helmet GW paint job?


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/14 09:07:07


Post by: Haighus


 Insectum7 wrote:
 Haighus wrote:
 Nevelon wrote:
Always nice when the necromundan spiders get some love.

No school like old school.

I'm still hoping we get a squad of them for the Necromunda game, that could obviously be built as Imperial Guardsmen. Would fit well with the current Ash Wastes setting as a Spiders Ash Waste patrol- would be the equivalent of Enforcers but out in the wastes. Makes a lot of sense with a succession crisis alongside an uprising from the dispossessed rebels outside the hives.

I think it would be an excellent chance to return combi-weapons, stormbolters, and heavy weapons with suspensors to the Imperial Guard, to represent troopers recruited on advanced worlds.
Are the super ancient plastic Guardsmen noted to be Necromundan Spiders? The old gray uniform and black helmet GW paint job?

The 1st edition ones, yes. I'm hoping for a modernised version.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/14 09:24:18


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Worth noting the old IG models were also referred to as the Arcadians (possible inspiration for the Cadian name later?) and lo and behold the Arcadian Rifles are the first unit named on that Epic 40k list.

Nice Easter Egg, thanks for sharing.



Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/14 09:39:05


Post by: Haighus


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Worth noting the old IG models were also referred to as the Arcadians (possible inspiration for the Cadian name later?) and lo and behold the Arcadian Rifles are the first unit named on that Epic 40k list.

Nice Easter Egg, thanks for sharing.


The Arcadian Rifles are also mentioned in the lore snippets on the inside rear cover of the 3.5th IG codex (all the snippets are about the 3rd War). I think these snippets appeared somewhere else earlier?

Within the fragment, the 26th Arcadian Rifles sacrifice themselves defending an Imperial vessel transporting them from an Ork boarding attack. They lead a counter-boarding assault noted to be so ferocious the Ork Kroozer disengaged and fled (apparently a rare feat).


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/15 11:37:11


Post by: Apologist


Thanks KK – always a treat reading your retro reviews, and particularly on my favourites, the good ol' Guard

On the Arcadian name, that was used in the White Dwarfs that first detailed the Imperial Guard, prior to the plastics – and I think an extract of that was on the RTB07 box:


Not my pic, but you can just about make out the reference to the 5th Arcadian Regiment and some details like red markings for Tactical squads.

Since Arcadia means a 'peaceful, simple place' – perhaps fitting for the roving nuanced world of RT, but not really on-theme for the more refinedly 'grim and dark' setting from 2nd ed. onwards – it wouldn't surprise me if the design team dropped the name and decided to transpose what little had been written on the Guard at that point wholesale to the setting being developed for Confrontation – Necromunda (or 'death-world'), a much more metal name!

Another colour plate:


... and this one gives the reference to the Arcadian Spider cult more clearly. I think this might have been subsumed/retconned/blended into being the Necromunda 8th Spiders following the publication of Ian Watson's Space Marine; but all these things rather blur together – as was the fashion of the time *removes onion from belt*.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/15 12:44:13


Post by: Haighus


Well, the name didn't get totally dropped as the Arcadian Rifles appeared in the 3rd War lore in the 2000's!

Cool throwback though.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/15 16:41:32


Post by: Easy E


Showing those old RT images makes me want to dig up the old Ollanius Pious fluff blurb.....


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/15 19:59:20


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


And we're back!

3rd edition was a very experimental time, with trial rules appearing in White Dwarf and even the in-house Citadel Journal fanzine all the time, some disappearing, others being incorporated into the main rules. It was a time when you really felt a letter to WD could make an impact.



You'll forgive me if I don't cover the WD articles relevant to the Guard (there were a lot of them) but instead skip ahead to the Chapter Approved book that collected them in 2002.



And I won't even be looking at the other armies in CA2002 but focusing on the guard relevant stuff.



If you'd like to know more about Chapter Approved, and the First Book of the Astronomicon you can check out this retro review:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/688008.page



For the Guard things kick off with one of the most controversial armies of all time.



The Amor Company!

Dedicated to undermining foes of the Emperor through the power of love and friendship the Amor Company - (rechecks notes)

Dedicated to crushing the foes of the Emperor through the power of armor and ordnance the Armored Company was potentially one of the most broken 40k armies since everyone was in a tank that literally could not be hurt by anything S3 or lower. And when shooting at the front most could not be hurt by anything under S6 (Chimeras) or S8 (Lemans Russ)

Now the Armored Company (you'll forgive me if I don't type Armoured, the little spell correct line just annoys me too much), would be at a disadvantage in many missions due to a low model count or difficulty getting into terrain but the regular old 'just plain kill' games it could quite literally leave most of an army helpless.



So there were a few rules to Nerf them. First was the 'lucky glancing hits' which meant a 6 to hit and then a 6 to penetrate armor you could score a glancing hit, and damage, immobilize or destroy it. So a 1 in 36 chance of every shot in the army damaging a tank.

Huh. 6s auto-wound, you'd never see that sort of lazy rules writing in a modern GW game



Another rule, based on the real-world problems of sending in tanks without infantry support (see Ukraine War), prevented tanks from advancing on infantry without infantry support of their own.



While a third rule prevented the Armored Company from advancing if they lost more than 50% of their numbers, which is generally a good idea in all walks of life.



The army list itself included such units as the Commissar Tank (who unfortunately did not shoot other tanks in the back, but just let you ignore the morale rule)



Tank squads as troops



And whole platoons in Chimeras.



They even threw in rules for several Forge World tanks too!



I actually had an Armored Company as part of Nurgle Plague Guard (Catachans+Zombies and WWII bits). IIRC the US GW site had Troll Boss Bob's Bargain Basement which was updated once a week with discounted discontinued stock. So when he had a pile of IG tanks in 2nd edition boxes I was there and the Plague Armored Company was born.





And thank goodness for that! I mean look at those prices! $30 for a tank?!? I was a humble student at the time, how could I afford something like that?



I'm afraid I have no strong memories of how they played, and I was not a very cut throat player, but it was a fun variant of the army to build and paint. Alas I cannot find a picture of them, maybe I'll try and brake open their boxes over the Christmas break.

Anyway join us next time for more early 3rd edition weirdness as we look at the Vehicle Design Rules!



Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/15 20:59:25


Post by: Easy E


I scratchbuilt 2 (two!) armored companies out of paper models that I still own. They were the very first Project Log on Warseer, and started the Project Log frenzy of dedicated threads to an army. It was not a thing before, at least IMHO.

Anyway, no one wanted to play that army. First because it was an Armored Company, and second was because it was all papercraft! The few times I took it out to play it got trounced! 1 in 36 came up very, very often when you are getting shot by a lot of infantry weapons! Plus, most anti-marine armies could feth up an AC just as well as the Marines.

If you want to see photos of some of the tanks, you can go here:

http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2020/06/wargaming-on-budget-paper-armored.html

I still have both companies in plastic bins and occasionally break them out for other games.




Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/15 22:45:00


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Found a place selling Leman Russ kits very cheap back in the early 2000's. Bought 13 of the things to round off my options.

It's how I ended up with three Leman Russ companies.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/16 03:17:18


Post by: Cannibal


I played the Armo(u)red Company a couple times back then. 1 basilisk, 1 armored fist squad, all the rest Russ's of some kind. In my experience the special nerf rules didn't matter that much. Nothing got very close and my tanks certainly didn't try to advance on infantry (couldn't fire the main gun and move). It was fun in that "first time you played Doom with the cheat codes" kind of way but it wasn't very sporting so I didn't keep with it.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/16 07:06:32


Post by: aphyon


I just fought the armored company from that book last weekend with my 7th ed admech in our hybrid 5th ed game system.

Neither of us could get to the objective in time to score it, but the IG player won the tie breaker with first blood by killing a dune crawler early on in the game.

good times!



Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/16 09:21:31


Post by: Gordy2000


Great work on those paper tanks Easy E - a lot of work.

Still building my armoured company - you can’t have too many tanks.

Loving these reviews KK. Always look forward to seeing them.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/18 10:02:58


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


And we're back!

Now where were we?

Ah yes...



The Vehicle Design Rules (VDR) had popped up in White Dwarf before but I'll be looking at the version from CA 2002 which did not have any big differences as I can recall.

The VDR let us make our own vehicles and they were AWESOME.



IIRC you bought armor (paying points for each facing, with rear armor being the most pricey), added a speed, weapons, transport and other options and then GO!



Clean, easy to use rules with tons of potential for creativity and filling the gaps in existing model lines. For me it meant adding a jeep and two halftracks to my Zombie guard (using Ork models) but there were a lot of funkier ideas out there.



From minor weapon swaps.




To the return of the infamous deodorant tank, the Grav Attack.



The rules even threw in immobile fortresses, superheavies and fliers as options.

Again, just a great, clean rule set that encouraged creativity. There was room for abuse and the rules really needed a cap on the number of guns you could put on a platform, but as long as people were not real asses it could be a lot of fun.



Also in Chapter Approved were some rules adding more details and granularity to vehicles and, for the first time I can think of, real world measurements and stats for them. Which was fine for the guard but caused trouble when the Eldar Falcon could do 1800 kph/1100 mph, of y'know Mach 1.5



Other Guard-relevant content in the book included a rare crossover with Marvel Comics



The Last Chancers army rules



It's wonderful that they think 12 guardsmen can take on a 1500 point army by giving them special rules like '+1 attack' and d3 extra move.



Ah, she can reroll armor penetration. That will help.

Bless their little hearts.



And then the book included letters and rules suggestions from readers The first and possibly last time I saw that in a GW book.



And then it ends with Patrick Marshall (author of The Night Before 986996.M41) getting a shout out with one of his humor pieces being formally included in the fluff. This really was a golden age of customer engagement when we could all come together to Revile the Pan Fo.

We're getting near the end of this, there's one or two more CAs for me to look at before we close out with the Black Crusade Codex.

See you soon!


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/18 11:08:10


Post by: kestral


For the record, I played Jungle Fighters on regular tables for years. They did OK, though in the latter era I ran them with Kroot mercenaries. In those days a demo charge in the right spot could rip the heart out of a lot of armies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thanks for the review - never saw that ed. of Chapter approved!


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/18 20:28:16


Post by: Haighus


Never knew that great piece was actual canon by way of Chapter Approved Feels very Imperial though.

I always found it amusing how expensive warship paint was.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/18 20:48:44


Post by: Flinty


Warships are pretty big. And it’s not like you can find Halfords touch-up colour match paint 40k years from now. Just have to repaint the whole ship each time it gets a bit dinged


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/18 23:22:47


Post by: H.B.M.C.


"You will sit in the blue chair" is a line that has always stuck with me.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/19 00:47:14


Post by: Psychopomp


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"You will sit in the blue chair" is a line that has always stuck with me.


Ditto.

So back in the days of 3e, our local Guard player was the epitome of the "I'm here to have fun, so let's all have fun together with this fun game! WHOOOO!" player. And GW gave him the VDR article in White Dwarf to play with.

His most successful creation was probably the Gorkamorka trukk with a Catachan driver, 24 spare lasguns from the Catachan sprue lined along the backboard between cab and bed, with a Catachan 'gunner' holding the outstretched fist hand up in the air. ("Why is he fist-pumping?" "He's yanking the string they threaded through all the triggers, duh!")

Being an armor 10, fast, open-topped vehicle, it usually exploded. But when it managed to bump and jostle up to within 12" of a unit...those were 24 separate rapid-fie lasguns. It doesn't matter who you shoot at, 48 BS3 S3 shots will get SOMETHING through. The first time it stopped being a big joke was when it rolled up to a squad of 12 genestealers, and left only a fine purple mist floating in the air.

But the fan-favorite was the 1::48 die-cast Cadillac convertible (painted pink), with Catachan driver and passenger (who had a shotgun, naturally), and a Catachan standing in the back seat with a jury-rigged pintle-mount heavy bolter. All three crew were, of course, modeled with heads wearing sunglasses. Dude even found an arm that let him have the driver hanging his elbow out over the car door. Armor 9 all around, fast, open-topped, and crazy cheap on points - it wasn't terribly effective, but you couldn't help but be impressed.

Those were some crazy, fun times.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/19 04:24:15


Post by: aphyon


 Psychopomp wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"You will sit in the blue chair" is a line that has always stuck with me.


Ditto.

So back in the days of 3e, our local Guard player was the epitome of the "I'm here to have fun, so let's all have fun together with this fun game! WHOOOO!" player. And GW gave him the VDR article in White Dwarf to play with.

His most successful creation was probably the Gorkamorka trukk with a Catachan driver, 24 spare lasguns from the Catachan sprue lined along the backboard between cab and bed, with a Catachan 'gunner' holding the outstretched fist hand up in the air. ("Why is he fist-pumping?" "He's yanking the string they threaded through all the triggers, duh!")

Being an armor 10, fast, open-topped vehicle, it usually exploded. But when it managed to bump and jostle up to within 12" of a unit...those were 24 separate rapid-fie lasguns. It doesn't matter who you shoot at, 48 BS3 S3 shots will get SOMETHING through. The first time it stopped being a big joke was when it rolled up to a squad of 12 genestealers, and left only a fine purple mist floating in the air.

But the fan-favorite was the 1::48 die-cast Cadillac convertible (painted pink), with Catachan driver and passenger (who had a shotgun, naturally), and a Catachan standing in the back seat with a jury-rigged pintle-mount heavy bolter. All three crew were, of course, modeled with heads wearing sunglasses. Dude even found an arm that let him have the driver hanging his elbow out over the car door. Armor 9 all around, fast, open-topped, and crazy cheap on points - it wasn't terribly effective, but you couldn't help but be impressed.

Those were some crazy, fun times.


That sounds almost like .....how 40K was always intended to be by the original design team before the beast of "balance" and tournament play rose its ugly head. i think it is probably why most of the 3rd/4th ed codexes had some of the most interesting army rules & builds so focused on the lore of the setting. a good chunk of my collection of old codexes i have are from 3rd and 4th with a few of the good ones from 5th and from 7th for "new" factions like admech.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/19 07:31:12


Post by: Illumini


The last piece there is just epic. Very 40k.

And the paint costs are not unrealistic. Over ten years ago, I worked bridge-adjacent, and painting one large bridge was budgeted at approx 4 million $.

I think I need to find chapter approved, the vehicle design rules look great.

Just a note, if anyone wants to find an active game with similar possibilities (though with much less soul), grimdark future lets you do the same thing.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/19 09:15:52


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Don't forget the $1 million for Dihydrogen Monooxide fuel.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/19 10:39:24


Post by: Flinty


It says dihydrogen peroxide though. According to the internet, this isn’t technically a thing as it should either be hydrogen peroxide, which is a rocket fuel component, or dihydrogen dioxide. Which is just a rubbish, if accurate, name.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/19 11:12:25


Post by: Haighus


 Flinty wrote:
It says dihydrogen peroxide though. According to the internet, this isn’t technically a thing as it should either be hydrogen peroxide, which is a rocket fuel component, or dihydrogen dioxide. Which is just a rubbish, if accurate, name.

Eh, naming conventions may have changed a bit in 39000 years

I think it is supposed to by hydrogen peroxide as it references fuel for thrusters.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/19 13:29:04


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Flinty wrote:
It says dihydrogen peroxide though. According to the internet, this isn’t technically a thing as it should either be hydrogen peroxide, which is a rocket fuel component, or dihydrogen dioxide. Which is just a rubbish, if accurate, name.
I think the Imperial Navy knows more about fuel than you do. Sounds like you could do with some re-education.

Report to the same room listed on the original notification. You can sit in the red chair.



Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/19 13:49:23


Post by: Flinty


And I’m not entirely sure there will even be a red chair provided I may be providing the red in the end.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/19 13:49:53


Post by: Haighus


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Flinty wrote:
It says dihydrogen peroxide though. According to the internet, this isn’t technically a thing as it should either be hydrogen peroxide, which is a rocket fuel component, or dihydrogen dioxide. Which is just a rubbish, if accurate, name.
I think the Imperial Navy knows more about fuel than you do. Sounds like you could do with some re-education.

Report to the same room listed on the original notification. You can sit in the red chair.


Pffft, that room is booked out by the Office of Imperial Outlays!

Clearly Flinty should be referred to a re-education facility operated by an Imperial Navy branch of the Ministry of Imperial Alchemy, suboffice of Imperial Propulsion (course sponsored by the Adeptus Mechanicus).

You, meanwhile, can report to the Chancellry of the Estate Imperium, Department of Departmental Partition, to be re-enrolled upon the basic accreditation for the organisation of the major 3,749,182 branches of the Adeptus Administratum. There will be an end-of-module test.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/19 17:05:13


Post by: tneva82


 Haighus wrote:
Never knew that great piece was actual canon by way of Chapter Approved Feels very Imperial though.

I always found it amusing how expensive warship paint was.


Clearly they use citadel paints to paint the whole hull


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/19 22:38:11


Post by: Cannibal


 Flinty wrote:
It says dihydrogen peroxide though. According to the internet, this isn’t technically a thing as it should either be hydrogen peroxide, which is a rocket fuel component, or dihydrogen dioxide. Which is just a rubbish, if accurate, name.


Maybe so when Johnny Joker burns down his house and blames GW for the rocket fuel formula GW can just point to how their chemicals actually don't exist.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/20 06:31:58


Post by: Racerguy180


Haighus wrote:
 Flinty wrote:
It says dihydrogen peroxide though. According to the internet, this isn’t technically a thing as it should either be hydrogen peroxide, which is a rocket fuel component, or dihydrogen dioxide. Which is just a rubbish, if accurate, name.

Eh, naming conventions may have changed a bit in 39000 years

I think it is supposed to by hydrogen peroxide as it references fuel for thrusters.

It's actually dihydrogen monoxide


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/20 09:01:02


Post by: Flinty


Dihydrogen monoxide is the joke water name. The thing from chapter approved about dropping rocks states dihydrogen peroxide, hydrogen peroxide being a real life oxidiser.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2022/12/20 17:52:31


Post by: Racerguy180


 Flinty wrote:
Dihydrogen monoxide is the joke water name. The thing from chapter approved about dropping rocks states dihydrogen peroxide, hydrogen peroxide being a real life oxidiser.


No way......?????? I had no idea?????


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/06 12:11:17


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


And we're back!

I mentioned earlier how the Armageddon Codex planted ideas for all sorts of IG regiments and other imperial factions. At first it seemed like a neat Easter Egg they planted like the 2 page spread of Marine Chapters in Rogue Trader. No one seriously expected every single one of those figures to eventually get multiple hard cover books and their own line of models right?

Right?



So in the early 'aughts (as we cool kids like to call them) White Dwarf ran a series of articles with modeling tips and army lists for various regiments.

Marines got something similar with the Index Astares series and even Xenos got in the action with Feral Orks and uh... the rest. Who I am sure exist. Oh yeah Kroot!

You'll forgive me if don't rifle through 20 year old WDs and instead use the rules collected in Chapter Approved 2003.



As before I won't do the whole book which is full of neat stuff like Kroot and Feral Orks (by Andy Chambers and Space McQuirk!) but just look at the IG related stuff.



We start things off with the stars of novels, comics, and a soon-to-be-announced Amazon series starring Henry Cavill, Gaunt's Ghosts!



Wow. Gaunt's Ghosts are pretty much the army the Catachans should have been. All infiltrating, all Camo, with tons of cool units.



Gaunt is a mandatory choice, which is fine since he's fairly decent character, inspiring, and a bit better than most IG officers in a fight. Several other main characters get special rules including Brin Milo and his pipes.



The Ghosts get master snipers who can't move but can slip away so they don't surrender any victory points.



And a better vet squad that can get demo charges, sniper rifles and special weapons.

Squads were normal but with infiltrate and camo cloaks.

All in all a fairly cool, different army and, like I said, better than the Catachans since they were not tied to the jungle. The main problems is the lack of models. You could use plastic Catachans but purists would demand they get green stuff cloaks and barrettes, which I saw more than one person do!

(Lack of models and heavy conversion requirements will be a reoccurring them throughout the exercise.)



Speaking of what the Catachans should have been, we get the Armageddon Ork Hunters which make up for the sculpting issues on the plastic Catachans by uh, painting them green.

Rules wise they're basically Catachans, with the same limitations like only getting cover bonuses in woods but not from walls. But they do get to take Ork Choppas and Shootas (complete with BS2) so well, there's that.

At least they're easier to convert! Just Catachans but with more goblin green and less bronzed flesh.



And if that wasn't lazy enough for you we had the ultimate lazy conversion army, the Steel Legion only painted a different Earth tone.



Rules wise they're an IG army with most of the fun stuff stripped out (no ab humans or psykers) slightly better morale and slightly better Rough Riders (who you'll have to convert yourself).



Yeah with generic rules, lazy repainted models, and a hard to spell German name these guys were clearly not going anywhere.



Then we have the guys who obviously going to be the break out stars, the Savlar Chem Dogs!



Thieves, criminals, dregs, the Chem Dogs have a distinct look and were definitely fan faves unlike the drab and dull Dead Corpse of Someplace of Another.



Rules wise they're not great, you lose some units and only get some improved morale and the chance to buy a relic that may or may not do anything useful. The big disadvantage is they cannot do sweeping advances because the Chem Dogs are too busy looting corpses to chase down their enemies. But it's not as big a blow as it sounds since, well, when was the last time Guard won assault?



They do get some improved Rough Riders, with the added advantage that you can finally use those Gorka Morka models that are on 50% discount.



Modelling wise you can use all sorts of IG and Necromunda models (the Chem Dogs pretty much steal whatever they can) but the hard part is respirator heads. The article recommends bits ordering on particular Chaos Terminator head, because of course it does.



But still, trust me, Chem Dogs, they guys are going to be huge unlike the Steel Legion but painted brown.

OK this is already long and there's at least 2 more regiments to go, so come back tomorrow for the Estonian Drop Troops!





Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/08 15:03:08


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


And we're back!

Next up is an army I actually played, the mighty Elysium Drop Troopers.



While other WD army lists were remixes of the normal IG list, the Elysians were a radical departure where the entire army must deep strike.



Storm Troopers were moved to troops to better allow for that, but even normal platoons and Commissars could (and must) drop.

This also meant no tanks, no sentinels.



To compensate they got an airstrike, which didn't even a require a model.

Which is good because you're going to be pretty busy with your infantry.



These models by the great Dave Taylor simply require buying some metal Marine Scouts, swapping their heads for metal IG tank crew, then green stuffing helmets and quilted sleeves.



So easy even a child could do it!

Of you could, y'know, buy a bunch of Warzone dudes on clearance and use them.

My memories of playing them is they were fair to mediocre, the main problems being you wanted to deep strike in close to hit the enemy on the turn you arrive, but close is the last place the IG want to be. Could take heavy weapon teams but you didn't know when they'd arrive and they could not fire the turn they arrived.

Still it was fun.



The last of the IG regiments is the City Fighters, a mix of IG remnants and militia fighting over the ruins of their home. Already an evocative bit of background but with some neat units added in.



Tanks were limited, but the normal IG platoons got some neat additions.



There was a specific squad for using Necromunda gangs in the army, with a larger and more flexible squad size. a mix of weapons (rifles, pistols, shotguns) and no matter how little sense it makes, the option of a plasma cannon as their heavy (the inverse of no models, no rules, if models then rules).

This looks like a fun army which I wish I'd played but never tried.

That covers the IG regiments, but there's still 2 more armies to cover in CA2003, come back next time for the dramatic return of... allies!


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/10 20:43:09


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Hrm.

Anyone still reading?

Ah well. Onward!

So CA2003 (and the earlier WD articles) gave us a half dozen new IG army lists with the models ranging from 'Steel Legion but painted a different shade of brown' to 'buy three metal kits and a tube of green stuff and maybe you can build a squad'.

What's interesting of course is what was missing. There was never a list for Tallarns, Modrians, Valhallans, Attilans, or Storm Troopers. Cadians would get one, only to be invalidated a few months later. Nor was there a list for Escher, Orlocks, Cawdor, Goliaths, Van Saar or Delaque, though they were teased as alternate regiments.

Spoiler:
(and don't even mention the Necromunda Spiders



Never forgotten, forever in our hearts)


So not only did these new regiments require extensive and expensive conversions, all you'd get out of it was an army of limited effectiveness.

Which would be invalidated in a year or two with the new codex but sssh, that's a secret.

Of course I imagine most folks would let you use Tallarn as Gaunts Ghosts, Cadians as Elyssians or Mordians as Chem Dogs (OK maybe not Mordian Chem Dogs, but certainly any of Necro gangs). But it's still odd that GW would devote staff time and pages to armies without models and neglect existing model lines when writing rules.

But enough whinging on to the allies!



First we have Kroot Mercenaries. Kroot had originally been planned as a stand alone army before being merged with Tau (one reason the first generation Kroot had no Tau bits). They were sort of a nature-loving primitive race, Navi 10 years before Avatar basically. So the Mercenary list was a way to kind of give them a chance to stand alone. With only one plastic kit and a couple of metal ones they were pretty limited, mostly remixes of existing Kroot units.



The whole army could be boosted with an evolutionary adaptation, part of the idea that Kroot get traits from whatever they eat.

This is a bizarrely common trope in 40k with Tyranids, Kroot and even Marines having it. It's the sort of thing that makes you want to ask 'is everything OK at home?".



The options for your T3, 6+ save assault army were +1 toughness and who cares.



One new unit were Vulture Kroot, a pretty simple conversion that added a jump pack unit to your assault army with no vehicles.



But the real advantage was the ability to add some S4, A2 troops to the Imperial Guard. I had some tiger striped Kroot and another squad modeled as combat servitors. Not a game breaker but a handy addition to most IG armies. Might also have been a good way to use Catachans.

And if that wasn't enough...



Chapter Approved 2003 also had the Marines In Black!



IG could include the Marines in Black as an HQ unit, a squad of super-duper Marines with magic bullets and all the special and heavy weapons you could ask for. Oh and they could deep strike!

This was another fun unit I used at the time.

But more Jarheads wasn't nearly as much fun as the next unit we got...

Tomorrow.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/10 21:04:15


Post by: The Power Cosmic


I'm still reading!

This is golden age weird-but-mostly-useless stuff that made the game fun. It opened up the 40k universe in a great way that now has been crystalized and etched in stone (to its detriment).


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/10 21:12:59


Post by: Dysartes


Kid, how could you do a post on the Kroot Mercenaries and not include the iconic Kroot-in-a-fez?!?!?


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/10 21:58:59


Post by: Haighus


Also still reading


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/10 22:27:02


Post by: H.B.M.C.


This is what Chapter Approved was meant to be about, not the stale, sterile "tournament season" crap it's become.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
IG could include the Marines in Black as an HQ unit, a squad of super-duper Marines with magic bullets and all the special and heavy weapons you could ask for. Oh and they could deep strike!
I eventually built a custom army of Deathwatch on the back of this, long before GW ever decided to give them a Codex.

Took a hell of a long time to get all he Deathwatch pads and metal DW bolters.





Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/14 13:09:45


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


And we're back!

I hoped to avoid ransacking old WD issues and wanted to just keep to nice, clean books but there was one I could not resist because it led to some of my favorite conversions and units in 3rd-4th edition. I'm talking about WD275, and the preview rules for Priests and the Inquisition!



The big 3rd edition book had basic rules for (almost) every unit in the game at the time.

Spoiler:


Never forget! Always in our hearts!


Including a section on Heroes of the Imperium such as Confessors, Inquisitors and the humble, humble, oh so humble preacher.



I mean not only is the obviously the same 3 models with some tweaks, look at that last guy, he's literally armed with a board with a nail through it!

But... he was just 5 points. And he could get an invulnerable save for 10 points. And he could get a powerfist for 15 more (or a combi weapon, or a plasma pistol...). Oh and you could have as many you wanted in your army.

Thus was founded the Parochial Patriarchy of the Preaching Padres of the Pious Powerfist (or PPPPPP as we liked to call them), who would generously send their members into every single Imperial Guard squad in an army.

But alas the PPPPPP was too pure for this fallen world and with WD275 their time was at an end.



The Diet of Balance declared that Priestly Power Fists were anathma. Confessors and missionaries could get a 2 handed power axe that was basically the same thing (but costlier and 1 less attack due to being 2 handed) but the Humble Preacher was now limited only to combi weapons and plasma pistols

And no sooner did you start converting your Preachers for the Parochial Patriarchy of the Preaching Padres of the Pious Power of Plama (or PPPPPPP, to distinguish them from the disbanded PPPPPP) but you learn you can only have 5 in your whole army

All I know is that somewhere these is a guy with 20 powerfist preachers on his shelf waiting for their comeback.

But GW taketh and GW givith as well!



Although the Big Black Book had Inquisitors, they were pretty limited, but this article brought them to new glory.



Now Inquisitors could once again take terminator armor, a full range of weapons (from the Marine list) and most importantly for me, henchmen!



Wow. They suck. Even worse than Guardsman. Why would spend points on these losers?

Well...



They came in several flavors each with their own special abilities. Mystics let you take pop shots at deep strikers.



Sages allowed you to reroll shots.



Familiars gave you an extra psy power.



And Warriors (limited to 3) could have a vast array of heavy and special weapons.

Which led to one of my favorite units, the aptly named Kyoto-Pattern Inquisition team. Inquisitor with Psy Cannon, 3 heavy bolter servitors, a sage and a mystic for pop shots and re-rolls. Not the most powerful unit in the game but a lot of fun.

To this day when I have cool models with no real point Inquisition Teams are my go-to use for them.



Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/14 13:45:06


Post by: Nevelon


Always fun to read these reviews..


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/14 15:30:45


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Kyoto-Pattern Inquisitorial Fire Team.

They were a staple of my army back during 3rd.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/15 09:55:03


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


And we're back!

We're coming into the homestretch finally. Chapter Approved 2004 didn't have much IG related content so we'll skip that. Which, as far as I know, leaves only one last stop before we hit Codex Black Crusade and the cut off for this era.

I'd almost forgotten it which is a shame since this magazine played an important role in making me the bitter and broken man I am today.

Yes I'm talking about the last and final Adeptus Arbites list from Citadel Journal #29 from 1998!



The Citadel Journal (or CJ as the cool kids liked to call it) was sort of an in-house fanzine for GW games. Black and white, noticeably cheaper than White Dwarf with a lot of fan-written articles given semi-official blessing. It was sporadically available in GW shops or from mail order but would frequently disappear without warning.

I think I still have the issue with the first Thunderhawk rules, the one that used toilet rolls as engines. I should review that one day.

But every so often an official-official article would slip in the like 3rd edition Harlequin rules (with Troupe Choices, I always liked that touch) and this, the Adeptus Arbites.



The Arbites have been around since Rogue Trader and are Imperial law enforcement, not beat cops but sort of a combination of the FBI/Scotland Yard+SWAT teams. Power-wise they kind of sit above the Imperial Guard but below the Sisters of Battle. Around Storm Trooper level.

And they are also a 100% original idea and certainly not an excuse to reuse Judge Dredd models with a bit of green stuff in a new game!





The army list, apparently snuck out without warning, is about what you'd expect from an army with 4 metal models.



Elite Arbites with Bolters.



Troop Arbites with Shotguns.




And shield and maul Arbites with a 2+ armor save and not much else.




And bike Arbites!

Two new choices that require multiple metal kits, saws and green stuff.



But you could add 1 Arbites Unit to any Imperial Army.



Or you could field an entire army of Blue Boys!

An army with no weapons above Strength 6! (OK you could get a combi melta for a 1 shot S8 weapon).

Would it have killed them, to include a Leman Russ option? Even just the autocannon one?



But it had some neat conversions (with grainy black and white photos)



And it was clearly a labor of love for all involved.

Again, this is consistent with the other weird IG regiments from this era. A lot of conversion work for not much benefit.

GW for example had a shock maul Arbites figure from Rogue Trader but didn't include it in this article. Granted the design was different but that model+a shield would have been an easy sale for this army.

And putting this list in White Dwarf, instead of a hard-to-find B&W magazine, would also have boosted sales.

All I can say is for a famously money-grubbing company GW sometimes makes it really hard for us to give them money.



In closing I want to include the ad for the pre-resin, all metal, 400GBP Thunderhawk. Note that you must be "absolutely barking mad (or American)" to order this.

I mean a 400GBP model? Who would buy such a thing?


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/15 10:45:04


Post by: Jarms48


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

We're coming into the homestretch finally. Chapter Approved 2004 didn't have much IG related content so we'll skip that. Which, as far as I know, leaves only one last stop before we hit Codex Black Crusade and the cut off for this era.


Heresy. It had the updated armoured company rules.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/21 20:29:53


Post by: Psychopomp


Codex: Eye of Terror was my last, great highlight of 40K gaming. I jumped into the Lost and the Damned hard, and when support for them faded in 4e, I kind of fell out of interest in the game. After that, I mostly just dabbled in 5e for a while as a way to spend time with friends.

I request you cover that list as well as the Cadian list, as traitor guard being in there counts, right?


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/22 02:45:22


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Lost & The Damned was a fantastic (and not especially balanced) list. Had tons of fun with that one.

The mutant kits they put out - a sprue of Catachans, a sprue of Zombies, a sprue of Ork Boyz, and a Chaos Mutation Sprue - was such a joy to build. I think I ended up with 90 of them.

It was just "Here, got kitbash stuff!". So I went wild using them, a box of Marauders, some Flagellants, leftover Necromunda plastic and metal parts, even some original Genestealer Hybrid plastics from way back in the day. Some models I made it my aim to use parts from as many kits as possible. Tremendous fun.

And with that in mind, you might be able to see why I'm so harsh on GW's no model/no rule stance these days, and the endless reduction of options, both in rules and modelling.



Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/26 13:25:05


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


And we're back!

I strayed a bit by talking about Kroot and Preachers and such so I may as well make one more stop before closing this out (and yes I will look at the Lost and the The Damned) by looking at the boys in black (plus one girl in black), the Assassins!

RT and 2nd edition had assassins as customizable characters



With RT rolling on random charts for gear while 2nd allowed you to pick your own wargear.

Why yes, I will take an assassin in power armor, with a displacer field and a vortex grenade and polymorphine, thank you. (I could have taken terminator armor but I didn't want to be cheesy you know)

But late 2nd edition and 3rd moved the assassins into temples with very specific equipment and roles. There was the guy who shoots you in the head, the girl who stabs you in the back, the crack monkey who just straight up kills you, and the spooky dude who no one ever used unless he was fighting the Seer Council with ANY NUMBER of models.

There were so many special rules GW published an actual Codex Assassins at the end of 2nd edition, it was only like 16 pages and only cost about US$10 (AUS$45) but it was still a whole book for just 4 models. It was a sign of the bloat that had set in and had to be fixed in 3rd.

The 3rd edition BBB had army lists in the back of the book with simple 'get you by' rules that took several paragraphs printed on tiny bits of cardboard and compressed them into some streamlined rules.



What's that? The Eversore has 12" charge, +d6 attacks and a bolt pistol and power weapon? That's it? No rules for his backpack? No rules for him exploding when he dies? Nothing else?



And the Vindicare is just a sniper with AP2? No rules for his 3 kinds of ammo? No rules for his face mask?

It was glorious.

It also lasted like 3 months. Maybe less.



At least this time GW included it for free in White Dwarf. And good on them for doing that. And for making it a booklet rather than a series of articles. No complaints there.



And check out that Wayne England cover (RIP)! That's worth the price of a White Dwarf right there!



At just 10 pages, 1 per assassin plus a scenario, and a whole page for the table of contents it wasn't really an overload.



Plus a few pages were art or fluff.



Still the rules were back to almost the same level of detail. The Calidus Assassin got her poison needles back, the Vindiacre his 3 magic bullets, the Eversore his quick shot rules etc.

My personal favorite was the Eversore for the sheer lack of ambiguity of his technique. Hide him in a unit, then charge 12" and Kil! Kil! Kil! I did not like the Calidus since was one of the few units that could move your opponent's unit ("A word in your ear") before the game and I always thought that was unsporting. The Vindicare was also a goodie, but too unreliable at taking down targets. You'd miss 1 time in 6 and fail to wound half the time (without your magic bullets). And I never used the Culexus.

But they were fun mainstays in any IG army and still are. The modelling opportunties are great too. I used some of Copplestone's Predator models for a while, then converted a Tallarn to serve as my assassin. Whenever I have some stray models I still convert up some assassins just for fun.

I for one would love it if we got a proper Assassins codex. Some basic Death Cult gals as troops, the 4 temples as elites/FA/Heavy Support and a customizable Omega Don level assassin lord as your HQ. Never happen but it would be fun, an army for people who think Harlequins and Custodius have too many models.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/26 21:06:04


Post by: RaptorusRex


Love the Castigator.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/28 21:18:57


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


And we're back!

Having strung this out as long as anyone could possibly expect it's time to start with final book in the seemingly-never ending 3rd edition IG supplements, Codex Nose of Horror.



Coming 3 years after the successful Armageddon worldwide campaign, Nose of Horror was an attempt to turn things up to 11 (12 in Australia) with a campaign that wasn't just about a single planet with an ill-chosen name, but one that could settle the fate of the Galaxy itself.

Like Codex: Armageddon, Codex: Nose of Horror presented 4 new mini army lists: More Fallen Than Usual Space Wolves, EZ paint Eldar, Nuttin But Cadians and the Lost and the Damned.

Nothing particularly interesting to say about the first two lists and the Cadians seems a good way to end this, so let's jump right into the Lost and the Damned!



L&D was one of the coolest army ideas GW had. Back in Rogue Trader it was clear that vast majority of Chaos forces were cultists hiding in the sewers, Imperial Forces turned traitor and unspeakable mutants pouring out of the Nose of Horror, with Chaos Space Marines as the rare elite among them. But from 2nd edition on CMS have been the star of the show. The 3rd edition Chaos Codex didn't even have cultists, you had to track them down in White Dwarf.





L&D were also a unique experiment because there wasn't a single official model for them, everything was kitbashes, conversions or repurposed from Necromunda and Fantasy. It was an incredible opportunity for conversions.





The only real product made for L&D was a mutant kit consisting of 1 Catachan, 1 Zombie and 1 Ork sprue together with a sprue of mutant heads and limbs. It was awesome.



I forget if there was a kit of L&D tanks, but honestly for a stock Leman Russ with some iron fencing added this is pretty good.





And for the more ambitious there were guides for converting various metal models for your army.



But even the most basic kitbashers could have a unique army of horrors from hell!



Rules wise, L&D were kind of a hybrid of daemons and Guard that ended up playing like foot slogging orks.

The army had Chaos Marines or Greater Daemons as HQ, Traitors, nurglings and mutants as troops and some stray Daemon and IG units to round things off.



Traitors were infiltrating mobs of IG-level humans with a choice of weapons. So you could go with rifles and a heavy weapon or go for CC weapons and pistols.



The mutant rules were wonderfully simple. Big mobs of guys with pointy sticks (you could pay points to get them lasguns) and roughly Ork stats. Then you could add on 1 of 4 bonuses. The problem was there was no easy way to get them into combat so basically you were only interested in the one that made them cavalry.

You could turn them into fearless plague zombies, but then they moved as if in difficult terrain, which made them even more pointless.



They could also get 'Big Mutants' basically almost Orgyn but with the same issue in getting them into assault range.



So like a lot of these variant IG armies the Lost and the Damned asked for a lot of work from models and collectors but with only minimal returns. Of course I never tried and maybe there was some abusive CSM/L&D combo I'm missing.

Of course the other problem is that you could do all that work drawing on models from a half dozen places, and then find the list was invalidated a few months later. And today, almost 20 years later has yet to have an update.

But that's a discussion for another time.



Really nice art though.









Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/29 00:13:08


Post by: kestral


I loved Lost and the Damned. Always wanted to do an army of Tau Auxiliaries who mutinied and went over to chaos based on it.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/29 01:31:24


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
The only real product made for L&D was a mutant kit consisting of 1 Catachan, 1 Zombie and 1 Ork sprue together with a sprue of mutant heads and limbs. It was awesome.
Yes it was. I've mentioned before that I have around 90 of the things. Mixed in Marauder, Tau, old Necromunda bits, and tried to make models with bits from as many kits as possible. Used it as an opportunity to build some Scavvies for Necromunda at the same time.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
The mutant rules were wonderfully simple. Big mobs of guys with pointy sticks (you could pay points to get them lasguns) and roughly Ork stats. Then you could add on 1 of 4 bonuses. The problem was there was no easy way to get them into combat so basically you were only interested in the one that made them cavalry.
Nah they were great. Giant mobs slogging around, doing a bit of damage here and there. Didn't need the cavalry profile to be worthwhile.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/29 02:06:14


Post by: Insectum7


I absolutely LOVED that Chaos Horde list. So fun to build armies with, and great imagery.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/29 04:37:18


Post by: cannonfodr


I miss the Lost and the Damned. The mutants bag was either $15 or $20 and great deal.

I fielded them as Word Bearers Auxiliaries.

I used a Greater Daemon as the compulsory HQ and a Word Bearers Chaos Lord with Demagogue to make my +4 save mutant blobs fearless. Added some deep striking Obliterators, a few squads of infiltrating traitor guard and some Defilers. Spare points went to some bloodletters or daemonettes.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/29 08:59:03


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Tangent:

 Insectum7 wrote:
I absolutely LOVED that Chaos Horde list. So fun to build armies with, and great imagery.


If you're looking to do some fun kit bashing I recommend the Star/Frost Grave sprues. There's tons of them and they're usually under $10. There's humans, alien heads, Gnolls, snake men and other cool stuff.

I've been using this seller but there are many more, including Brigade Games in the US and Northstar in the UK.

https://www.ebay.com/str/spruedude
Spoiler:




So far Frost/Star Grave have been almost 100% compatible except for some oddballs like Gnoll heads. Oathmark used different head joints but arm swaps are easy.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/29 19:05:56


Post by: Illumini


I think the L&D list was fairly powerful. You got IG tanks and defilers, better guardsmen, which could both infiltrate and go MSU (las/plas 6 dudes) or horde, and the mutants were pretty decent for the points.

The aspiring champions with fist hidden in a blob of mutants was great. Ld 10 I believe he conferred to the unit, and you then had two hidden fists. With S4 upgrade, the unit was a serious threat in close combat. 3pts flamers are also good. Just remembered that he could be a sorcerer too, with S8 shots.

The list was better than CSM at playing greater deamons, as you had no expensive characters that could end up as the host.

At 25pts each, the big mutants were not that bad either IMO, but I never actually had any minis for those, so that is theoretical.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something like this for 1500pts I think would do ok in 3rd. Three big blasts to kill MEQ, lots of AP2 and S8/9 shots, and the power fists hidden in a swarm of wounds would likely wear down most units in close combat.
I think there might have been some serious abuse available with veteran skills too, which I believe conferred to the unit. The champions could buy stuff like tank hunter, counter charge, furious charge for 1-3pts. Absolutely totally balanced of course.

HQ -
2x aspiring champions, mark of Tz, bolt of change, powerfist, frags
2x aspiring champion, mark of Tz, bolt of change

Troops -
2x30 mutants, boss, fist, 2x flamer
4x6 traitors, plasmagun, lascannon

HS -
2x Leman Russ, heavy bolter, smokes
1x Defiler


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/30 17:16:36


Post by: Psychopomp


I really enjoyed the LatD list. Somewhere I've still got somewhere between 30 and 60 mutants in storage.

My problem was that in our local group, we had several well established players. Including a marine player with the model selection to tailor a list with a heavy bolter in every available heavy weapon slot for his list.

Not even the cavalry upgrade could get your mutant hoards through that sort of nonsense with enough bodies to damage a Space Marine line. Honestly, I think that era of late 3e and early 4e was where I was starting to get disillusioned with the 'win the game in the list-building stage' nature of the game. I wanted to play flavorful lists with LatD and the Ulthwe Strike Force (my main army was around 4000 points of Craftworld Eldar painted up as Ulthwe from the get-go.)

But flavorful couldn't win against tailored list-building, and that started getting depressing.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/31 20:31:26


Post by: The Power Cosmic


Eye of Terror was peak 40k for me. Loved all the lists that were made to highlight kitbashing and conversions. I wrote up so many lists for LotD, but never had the models to play any of them.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/01/31 22:07:54


Post by: Easy E


I think the World-Wide Campaigns were awesome for the hobby. A lot of people complained about the outcome, but the "outcome" was never the point.

The fan made content for each of those campaigns was really great and fun to follow along with. It made me want to emulate it, which eventually led me down a yellow brick road to making my own games.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/02/10 21:18:04


Post by: Memnoch


The Eye of Terror Campaign was my favourite time in the hobby. Great fun.

Eye of Terror was such a fun codex as well.
The Lost and the Damned list is still one of my two projects Ive always wanted to do-a full Traitor Guard army.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/02/11 18:37:03


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


And we're back!

We'll close our look at the Eye of Terror codex with the Cadian list.



This would be the final appearance of the 2nd edition metal Cadians and the first time the 3rd edition look would start to appear. Plastic Cadians and a new codex would follow a few months later.



The big addition of course was Creed and his platonic life partner Kell. Creed was a 'come the hour come the man' sort of character, after everyone who outranked him was killed in a treacherous attack, he assumed command and turned the tide. A reliable heroic trope suitable for officers and commander types. He was not a combat monster by any measure but a support and coordination character who allowed IG character to choose missions and whether or not to go first. (The orders mechanic would follow in the next IG book a few months later).



The Cadian army list took out the abhuman options, added Psykers (who had been absent for all of 3rd edition) as well as more Storm Troopers (Kasrkin, but without models at that point) and ahem, the Youth Army.



An update of the old White Shields, they were very quickly renamed conscripts which I think was a wise move. Like suicide bombers, child solders are just a bit too close to home for amusing grimdark.



Kasrkin, the best of the best of the 3rd best Imperial army after Marines and Sisters, could be taken as elite Storm Troopers who could deep strike and infiltrate, or 0-3 troop choices with the same stats but without those special rules. An odd difference but again it would all be swept away a few months later so no biggie.



Sanctioned Psykers were a weird one, as far as I can tell they were free, but with random powers including a 1 in 6 change of 'no usable power'. But free. So there was that. And again, they were the first IG psykers in 3rd edition.



Plus some general rules, reroll 1s to hit (if you're BS3, except for plasma, except for sniper rifles...), slightly improved morale and some other bits and bobs. Again like a lot of the other sub faction lists a lot of stuff for not much benefit.

And that's kind of the story of 3rd edition IG. It was a time of incredible creativity, with some real labors of love (anyone who spent hours sculpting quilting onto metal Marine Scouts to make Drop Troops has my respect). But to what end?

By all means spend time and money making Chem Dogs or Ork Hunters or whatever, they still going to be a fairly mediocre choice.

Meanwhile several armies that actually existed on shelves, which you could buy and paint never got any special attention. Which to me is just... odd.

Moreover by the end of things you could easily make an IG army that required a dozen or more books to use as Death World Vets join the Steel Legion with support from Imperial Armor and a squad of Arbites and an Inquisitor and some Kroot. Clearly things were getting out of hand and required at least a soft reboot.

So I guess I will have to keep going at least a little bit further with a loot at Codex Imperial Guard 3.5!

Coming when I get around to it.



Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/02/12 02:03:15


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
The orders mechanic would follow in the next IG book a few months later).
No, that was the 4th Ed Codex. The next Guard book was the one with the Doctrine system. It would be some amount of years before 'Orders' became the thing that Guard did.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
An odd difference but again it would all be swept away a few months later so no biggie.
Not really. Those rules just became the Stormtrooper/Grenadier rules.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Sanctioned Psykers were a weird one, as far as I can tell they were free...
Says 12 points per model right there on the page.

You feelin' ok, Kid?

And I said this in my Doctrinal review: The second best result on the Sanctioned Psyker table was "No Result". That's how bad the powers are.




Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/02/12 08:58:31


Post by: Haighus


Orders were in the 5th edition codex. There was no 4th edition codex, Guard were stuck using the 3.5th codex. This still used the leadership bubble around officers, which could be spread via vox casters.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/02/12 09:40:48


Post by: H.B.M.C.


You out nitpicked my nitpick. Well done.

And I wouldn't call using the 3.5 book being "stuck" with anything. That book was amazing.



Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/02/12 09:41:05


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
The orders mechanic would follow in the next IG book a few months later).
No, that was the 4th Ed Codex. The next Guard book was the one with the Doctrine system. It would be some amount of years before 'Orders' became the thing that Guard did.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
An odd difference but again it would all be swept away a few months later so no biggie.
Not really. Those rules just became the Stormtrooper/Grenadier rules.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Sanctioned Psykers were a weird one, as far as I can tell they were free...
Says 12 points per model right there on the page.

You feelin' ok, Kid?

And I said this in my Doctrinal review: The second best result on the Sanctioned Psyker table was "No Result". That's how bad the powers are.




LOL, thought I was over this cold, guess not.


Retro Review-Imperial Guard 3rd Edition (+extras) @ 2023/02/12 09:46:50


Post by: Haighus


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You out nitpicked my nitpick. Well done.

And I wouldn't call using the 3.5 book being "stuck" with anything. That book was amazing.


I started playing at the tail end of 4th and both codices are sitting next to me

It was amazing, but by the middle of 5th edition everything felt distinctly overcosted with 2 editions of codex creep. I still look to it for the lore though, brilliant book.