So whilst early days yet as I don’t think anyone has been fully hands on with the rules, we’re starting to get bits and pieces of info about the Boarding Action rules coming in the Arks of Thingy Abaddon book.
I’m genuinely quite hyped for it. 500 points, relative handful of models sounds good, as does a more flexible FoC, in that there are no “tax” units.
I’m hoping my Necrons might have a slight edge, thanks to Immortals being fairly tough to begin with, carrying fairly nasty weapons (Gauss Blaster or Tesla both have appeal in such small scale engagements) and of course Resurrection Protocols might prove pivotal, as few others will be getting back on their feet. Ophydian and Skorpekh Destroyers may also prove interesting, as they have a decent enough number of hard hitting attacks.
There will of course be more to it than just killing and getting back up, but it’s still looking like an interesting challenge.
Main downside I can see is having to shell out for terrain, or build your own from scratch. I’ve loads of Zone Mortalis for Necromunda so I’m pretty much covered there, I think.
How about you? From what we’ve seen so far, are you looking at units in a new light? Might you be parted from precious currency to add something you previously saw no use for?
Looks like a fun variant. if the rules were a free PDF or a WD article, I’d take them for a spin. Sound like a nice little riff on a fast and fun combat patrol game.
But I’m not shelling out real money for a book that’s going to be obsolete by the time I finish reading it, and that with the amount of time I spend at the FLGS, might never actually get played.
I’ll buy cool models all day, but GW’s love of splatbooks needs to stop.
I see it was a way to use units you wouldn't normally use.
Deathmarks in 40k aren't great, but in KT they seem useful.
Likewise, normally I wouldn't use flayed ones, but boarding actions seems to suit them well; a lot of tight spaces and apparently they get a rule that makes them harder to hit.
Similar case with Lychguard.
I am interested but reserved, I feel it’s a good start.
But it’s still not great.
I think best hope is it’s an experiment and can be used into the future, or updated into the future.
Good excuse to not play normal 40k if I only bring smaller army
For terrain we will probably just use the city terrain, easy to put in lots of trucks and busses and cars. And lots of little corridors can be made easy
I'm pretty excited, honestly. The small scale 40k variants tend to be my favorite form of 40k. I haven't played the newest version of Kill Team, but I really enjoyed the version before that. I really liked 7th edition's Zone Mortalis rules (technically HH rules iirc). I really liked 7th edition's Combat Patrol to the point of it being my preferred way of playing at the time.
I'm cautiously optimistic that Boarding Action will be similarly enjoyable.
Lord Damocles wrote: How many of y'all are still playing whatever the last Cityfight expansion was called, or Apocalypse, or that thing with the planes?
Well, the most recent Apocalypse was an entirely different ruleset from 40K and the dog fight expansion was from 7th, so not really relevant. IIRC, the 8th Ed City Fight box wasn't so much a new play style as a linked game campaign system which Crusade does better anyway.
I enjoy smaller games. After taking a break from 40k for some time, Kill Team 2018 brought me back into the hobby. My Primaris Space Marine collection started as a KT.
I like the streamlined approach to lists, and cramped corridors makes me think of old school Suevival Horror video games and Sci fi movies. The only thing stopping me from trying Boarding Actions is the gameboard itself. I'm chock full of Terrain as is.
It favours cheap armies, and by a lot too. With 150-160pts characters and 200pts units, I can't even fit three things in to a 500pts lists.
The fact that it requires people to buy extra books and extra terrain for 270$ is an extra no thank you to me and people playing in my area. I would rather buy models for myself, then spend a lot of money on something, I maybe will play 1-2 times and have no to little fun with.
It looks interesting at a glance. The individual army rules look very wonky, though.
Karol wrote: It favours cheap armies, and by a lot too. With 150-160pts characters and 200pts units, I can't even fit three things in to a 500pts lists.
Reminds me of when my friends and I would play 500pt games back in 3rd.
Necrons:
Necron Lord - 100pts
10 Necrons - 180pts
10 Necrons - 180pts
Total 460pts
The above were all mandatory, so that left all of 40pts for optional units and wargear. Fun times.
vipoid wrote: It looks interesting at a glance. The individual army rules look very wonky, though.
Karol wrote: It favours cheap armies, and by a lot too. With 150-160pts characters and 200pts units, I can't even fit three things in to a 500pts lists.
Reminds me of when my friends and I would play 500pt games back in 3rd.
Necrons:
Necron Lord - 100pts
10 Necrons - 180pts
10 Necrons - 180pts
Total 460pts
The above were all mandatory, so that left all of 40pts for optional units and wargear. Fun times.
Ah, I also remember being a Necron player with the 3rd edition Codex as well. At least the 500pts left 40pts for a Resurrection Orb, those things were pretty much mandatory for Necrons.
It was a very bland 500pts, but it could do quite well, due to gauss and just how damn resilient those Necrons were.
vipoid wrote: It looks interesting at a glance. The individual army rules look very wonky, though.
Karol wrote: It favours cheap armies, and by a lot too. With 150-160pts characters and 200pts units, I can't even fit three things in to a 500pts lists.
Reminds me of when my friends and I would play 500pt games back in 3rd.
Necrons:
Necron Lord - 100pts
10 Necrons - 180pts
10 Necrons - 180pts
Total 460pts
The above were all mandatory, so that left all of 40pts for optional units and wargear. Fun times.
Ah, I also remember being a Necron player with the 3rd edition Codex as well. At least the 500pts left 40pts for a Resurrection Orb, those things were pretty much mandatory for Necrons.
It was a very bland 500pts, but it could do quite well, due to gauss and just how damn resilient those Necrons were.
Unfortunately, mine usually got chewed up by a tooled-up Deamon Prince, as they sucked badly in melee and We'll Be Back didn't work if they were cut down.
(You're right though, you'd always take a Resurrection Orb for that list.)
vipoid wrote: It looks interesting at a glance. The individual army rules look very wonky, though.
Karol wrote: It favours cheap armies, and by a lot too. With 150-160pts characters and 200pts units, I can't even fit three things in to a 500pts lists.
Reminds me of when my friends and I would play 500pt games back in 3rd.
Necrons:
Necron Lord - 100pts
10 Necrons - 180pts
10 Necrons - 180pts
Total 460pts
The above were all mandatory, so that left all of 40pts for optional units and wargear. Fun times.
Ah, I also remember being a Necron player with the 3rd edition Codex as well. At least the 500pts left 40pts for a Resurrection Orb, those things were pretty much mandatory for Necrons.
It was a very bland 500pts, but it could do quite well, due to gauss and just how damn resilient those Necrons were.
Be a rebel. Leave the orb at home just to show that you can!
It's hard to get hyped when a company wants you to pay $100 for a set of rules that won't matter by June.
And my cynicism can't see this as anything other than GW attempting to justify the cost of tooling all that boarding action KT terrain by expanding where it gets used.
It's hard to get hyped when a company wants you to pay $100 for a set of rules that won't matter by June.
And my cynicism can't see this as anything other than GW attempting to justify the cost of tooling all that boarding action KT terrain by expanding where it gets used.
Yeah, this basically. Been down this road before, going as far back as Armaggedon, Cities of Death, Cityfight, Apocalypse, Psychic nothings and all that. By the time its out, people have geared up for it and started to play a couple games, it'll be gone and forgotten.
For the rules themselves, based on what's been previewed, I have no urge whatsoever to pay for rules on 'how to use walls and doors' and being forced not to use half or more of any given army. Especially not the stuff that is functionally equivalent to units other armies get special exemptions to take, as if that's going to be vaguely balanced at all.
Unfortunately, mine usually got chewed up by a tooled-up Deamon Prince, as they sucked badly in melee and We'll Be Back didn't work if they were cut down.
(You're right though, you'd always take a Resurrection Orb for that list.)
The Orb allowed you to roll for WBB even if hit by a power weapon or anything that ignores armour saves. So the lord could get back up.
Be a rebel. Leave the orb at home just to show that you can!
Sadly impossible, in truth the Orb's were stuck to the Necron Lord, trying as they might those Orbs just could not leave the Lord's hand.
Anyway, back on topic.
I agree that the shelf life will also be short, so GW have a proven track record for pump and dump. Just a shame that along the way they make some interesting game formats that get over looked.
Voss wrote: For the rules themselves, based on what's been previewed, I have no urge whatsoever to pay for rules on 'how to use walls and doors' and being forced not to use half or more of any given army. Especially not the stuff that is functionally equivalent to units other armies get special exemptions to take, as if that's going to be vaguely balanced at all.
That's also a point I hadn't considered: The ass backwards army construction rules, and all those utterly nonsensical restrictions and caveats. Can't bring Zoanthropes and Venomthropes in the same army because... reasons! Can bring as many Death Guard Terminators as the new FOC allows, but Ork players can only ever bring 2 units of MANZ because... don't know!
I'm not hyped, but it's nice that IttD gameplay mode comes to 40K as well, just to spice things up in Narrative play. There can always be more variety in missions when playing a longer Campaign. Also, my modest T'au collection will finally find its use as a 500pt boarding patrol (to be used as NPC Space Pirate faction in our upcoming Crusade)
I don't think I'd be into it if I weren't into KT21 though; that terrain takes a bunch of space and getting it assembled and painted will no doubt take ages. There should also be more synergy with the Arks of Omen & Zone Mortalis terrain than there is, seems like a wasted opportunity.
The books are a dumb idea though. Why not just sell the terrain and those new bases, rest of the rules should be free just like the Mustering PDF. I hate book bloat in general, doubly so when GW doesn't offer current 40K books as digital downloads. It's a lot of work authoring digital copies out of the printed books just for your personal use, I'd much rather pay for them than spending the hours scanning/OCR'ing/typesetting etc. I don't want to use physical books when playing, much more convenient to have them in my 'slate where I can splitscreen/bookmark/screenshot etc and still have carrying capacity left for my models etc. My slate doubles as a jukebox playing 40K theme music from Tidal when the game is running
I like what I read about it and as a coincidence I started to build my D&L spaceship corridors last month so I'd be nearly prepared to do these kinds of games. I also painted 50 aliens last year that could count as tyranids.
I think GW will price me out of this though, but maybe some folks sell their books for 10€ when 10th comes around, I could see me picking them up then.
Edit: For me GWs pace is just too fast these days, by the time I'm thinking: now I'm ready to buy these books and play with them they'll probably be out of print and their rules out of date due to 10th.
Voss wrote: For the rules themselves, based on what's been previewed, I have no urge whatsoever to pay for rules on 'how to use walls and doors' and being forced not to use half or more of any given army. Especially not the stuff that is functionally equivalent to units other armies get special exemptions to take, as if that's going to be vaguely balanced at all.
That's also a point I hadn't considered: The ass backwards army construction rules, and all those utterly nonsensical restrictions and caveats. Can't bring Zoanthropes and Venomthropes in the same army because... reasons! Can bring as many Death Guard Terminators as the new FOC allows, but Ork players can only ever bring 2 units of MANZ because... don't know!
GW games should have fluff nd design notes explaining such things, would be easier to swallow.
As others have said, possibly interesting concept which will likely get no further love from GW. Pass.
It's also the typical hard pendulum swing on GW's part.
Does this version have a more reasonable approach to stratagems, warlord traits and relics? Nope! You just get none of them! All gone. You can't bring even one from your book.
Instead have 3 generic strats, 5 generic traits, and a 6th trait that's a generic "You have a Relic" that is +1S/+1D.
They threw the baby out with the bathwater so hard that they lost their grip on the bath...
tauist wrote: Here's Ash with a first look and a batrep
The book is laughably thin on actual content, hard pass from me at that price.
Sounds about right for GW. Little content and rules, but at a premium price. Everyone gripes about the model prices, but it's actually the rules that are the real grift.
Also - "You have to use the Boarding Action(TM) terrain to use these missions" Lol, GW gonna GW. Just use some shoe boxes and styrofoam to make corridors.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's also the typical hard pendulum swing on GW's part.
Does this version have a more reasonable approach to stratagems, warlord traits and relics? Nope! You just get none of them! All gone. You can't bring even one from your book.
Instead have 3 generic strats, 5 generic traits, and a 6th trait that's a generic "You have a Relic" that is +1S/+1D.
They threw the baby out with the bathwater so hard that they lost their grip on the bath...
Which appeals to me very much. Less bespoke clutter causing issues, and more scope for player decision to be what is significant.
Also -
"You have to use the Boarding Action(TM) terrain to use these missions"
Lol, GW gonna GW.
Just use some shoe boxes and styrofoam to make corridors.
There is no much decision to be made. Unless it is picking an army, if someone has multiple ones. The games are very one dimensional, very swingy for some armies, and really hit some armies in the gonads, if they can't horde or don't have sticky objectives.
Unfortunately, mine usually got chewed up by a tooled-up Deamon Prince, as they sucked badly in melee and We'll Be Back didn't work if they were cut down.
(You're right though, you'd always take a Resurrection Orb for that list.)
The Orb allowed you to roll for WBB even if hit by a power weapon or anything that ignores armour saves. So the lord could get back up.
The lord and his unit weren't killed - they fled (after inevitably losing combat) and were cut down - something not even a Resurrection Orb could save them from.
Back on topic, I'll be curious to see which factions pull ahead for this gametype (and whether it's the same ones that are strong with normal lists, or if others instead rise to the top).
Unfortunately, mine usually got chewed up by a tooled-up Deamon Prince, as they sucked badly in melee and We'll Be Back didn't work if they were cut down.
(You're right though, you'd always take a Resurrection Orb for that list.)
The Orb allowed you to roll for WBB even if hit by a power weapon or anything that ignores armour saves. So the lord could get back up.
The lord and his unit weren't killed - they fled (after inevitably losing combat) and were cut down - something not even a Resurrection Orb could save them from.
Must have been 5th edition. In 3-4 the Crons would have still been rolling Ld10. Only in 5th did the number of casualties affect Ld. In 4th it was outnumbering.
I miss OldCrons. :(
Edit: oh sorry, was this thread about a new release? I'd rather play 4th ed again, with the books I already have. That's my on-topic contribution
Exactly this. Kill Team: Into The Dark wasn't released very long ago, and gives you precisely the tense, cramped Space-Hulky game they're now trying to re-package as 40k. Not only that, but the Kill Team season is rolling on in kind, re-selling Into The Dark again and again with very minor tweaks. Whoever designed that handful of Gallowdark hull sections must be getting a hell of a commission, because it's being sold at least 5 times in different boxes.
Having watched both Guerrilla Miniature Games videos, I think the strict set up is a poor choice, especially as most of them look to be quite symmetrical and bland.
I would have thought it was more claustrophobic looking, but those corridors seem very wide.
I just watched the TTT battle report on this and I l am actually excited for this. It will be a nice change of pace from 2000 point battles, and this seems like a good way to play 500 points (those games don't work well with the regular rules in my opinion). I just hope GW doesn't just let it fade away like other supplements and releases more content of the next year or so.
stonehorse wrote: Having watched both Guerrilla Miniature Games videos, I think the strict set up is a poor choice, especially as most of them look to be quite symmetrical and bland.
I would have thought it was more claustrophobic looking, but those corridors seem very wide.
Oh, really? I watched (some of) the Tabletop Tactics video and was baffled by the wide open firing corridor and nigh-pointless side rooms on either side. I thought they didn't have enough walls painted and ready or something. If that's what its supposed to look like, I'm baffled by both the FOC restrictions and the general conceit that this a different type of battle. Its basically the dumb tournament 'magic walls' battlefield with a weak fluff excuse for why there are magic walls and no tanks (and whatever else your particular army is just randomly banned from taking).
To answer the original question, only very briefly!
Sounds cool and all, but I excitedly bought the first Kill Team box and have only got round to playing that once so far. Got Necromunda when that first released too and don't think we've even played that once so far. Don't need another variety of game to feel bad about ignoring...
Haven't been keeping up with rules since after halfway through 8th, but I would think Warp Spiders and Necron Wraiths would be really useful if they still have their ability to phase through objects.
I like the flexible detachments and also feel the 3rd edition sentiment( the craftworlds supplement, back in the day, was pretty cool), but the indoor combat I've been enjoying since the previous edition of Kill Team. Nothing really more to say other than keep up the good work, GW.
That said, this indoor-patrol stuff feels like yet another missed opportunity for GW to throw in a supplement for solo-coop play. For example, a jolly party of Space Marine HQ characters( Primaris Lieutenant, Chaplain, Librarian, Terminator Captain ) explore a seemingly quiet sector of an Ark, only to find various Chaos Demons jumping out at every corner, earning experience and finding items of value. Larger monster characters could be thrown into the mix, ideally as chasers; one only needs to think of the Fellowship fleeing the Balrog, while fending off Goblin attacks. Maybe a pursuing Chaos Knight - if the Ark is large enough! - is tearing apart the walls while smaller demons will delay the party's progress.
Played a few games, it’s really fun. The doors give some really interesting defensive plays and make you really think about when to spring forward. My only complaint is some maps seem too open
If it was a free alternative game mode, or an article in WD I might actually consider it. But GW want to charge people for a book with a tiny amount of rules content, and then parcel out additional rules over the next 3 books too. It's just too much for what would, at most, be a cool little diversion form playing "regular" 40k games.
I was excited for it 6 months ago when they announced it for Kill Team but they just seem to be recycling the same content on a slightly larger scale. I would have thought a lot of the marketing punch of Space Hulk combat would be lost by deja vu. It also creates a split player base for effectively the same niche. A local meta now needs to support two spaceship boarding games instead of coalescing around one.
It's also a tricky sell in terms of the cost of outlay across the two groups. KT players could well already have all the terrain they need for this but they have already paid for boarding actions style rules. I know I'm not interested in the AoO book primarily because I've no need for another set of rules to do effectively the same thing. On the flip side a 40K player may well be happy with the book as they don't already have the content, but are they really going to spend £100+ on scenery that has no further use beyond this one type of game?
You could well end up in a situation where the people who own the rules and those who own the scenery end up being two separate groups. Yes there will be some overlap with the above groups but enough to sustain a new way to play 40K?
I doubt they want a sustainable new way to play 40k, sure that would be nice if it happened organically but the plan here is to make some quick bucks from terrain and rules. Old casual or grognard types who switch around rulesets may get it out from time to time if good enough, which lets face it is unlikely, it may he fun but id be amazed if it had enough depth for that and the modern players may have a game or two.
Which is no sleight on anyone excited for it, if it seems fun to you itll probably be fun for you but i cant see any long term plan here.
I quite like the idea in theory, but the fixed terrain layouts, requiring twice as much of the scenery as I already have for KT, the rules being parcelled out across 4 books and the likely impending arrival of a whole new edition that will invalidate those books before I've even had time to finish painting all that spaceship scenery have led me to decide I CBA with it. I'll stick to Space Hulk and KT for my spaceshippy Warhams I reckon.
Necroagogo wrote: I'm interested but the high buy-in level has me hesitant. Anybody have any suggestions for alternative terrain (no access to 3D printer, sadly)?
Getting the basic shape doesn’t seem too tricky as it’s all Right Angles, so foam core is your friend. Greeblies etc will depend on the depth of your Bitz box and that.
Very few people will buy the book or play the variant. New edition is coming in 6 months at which point half the rules in the variant probably break/become incompatible, etc. At best its perfectly playable in 10e but nobody touches it because they consider it to be outdated rules from the previous edition.
Necroagogo wrote: I'm interested but the high buy-in level has me hesitant. Anybody have any suggestions for alternative terrain (no access to 3D printer, sadly)?
Getting the basic shape doesn’t seem too tricky as it’s all Right Angles, so foam core is your friend. Greeblies etc will depend on the depth of your Bitz box and that.
If you really want to go low budget just to get a feel for how much time/effort you want to dedicate to it, folding index cards to form a base and wall and then taping them together back-to-back should give you a taste. Would also mean you could start playing now and gradually build the actual terrain.
Necroagogo wrote: I'm interested but the high buy-in level has me hesitant. Anybody have any suggestions for alternative terrain (no access to 3D printer, sadly)?
Getting the basic shape doesn’t seem too tricky as it’s all Right Angles, so foam core is your friend. Greeblies etc will depend on the depth of your Bitz box and that.
If you really want to go low budget just to get a feel for how much time/effort you want to dedicate to it, folding index cards to form a base and wall and then taping them together back-to-back should give you a taste. Would also mean you could start playing now and gradually build the actual terrain.
Do kids these days still have sets of blocks? Your basic cut and sanded 2x4 chunks are perfect for hallway fights.
If there are some cool looking kill team sets I might end up with enough terrain to play this. However I think kill team (either edition) is probably a better way to play these small scale engagements.
The only advantage I could have seen to this being tied directly to 40k might have been as part of an escalating campaign but it doesn't fit in with crusade so that's out of the window.
Do kids these days still have sets of blocks? Your basic cut and sanded 2x4 chunks are perfect for hallway fights.
Lego is still the #1 selling toy company in the world with 8.7 billion USD in sales, so yes.
I was thinking old wooden blocks. I had a set back in the day we dragged out and used for RT missions. Right up there with stacks of books for hills.
It would take a lot of legos to fill a decent sized table. Probably cheeper to just buy GW kits.
I was thinking more of the generic buckets full of Duplos or the bigger toddler blocks. Wooden blocks don't interlock and are prone to falling with table bumping.
Do kids these days still have sets of blocks? Your basic cut and sanded 2x4 chunks are perfect for hallway fights.
Lego is still the #1 selling toy company in the world with 8.7 billion USD in sales, so yes.
I was thinking old wooden blocks. I had a set back in the day we dragged out and used for RT missions. Right up there with stacks of books for hills.
It would take a lot of legos to fill a decent sized table. Probably cheeper to just buy GW kits.
I was thinking more of the generic buckets full of Duplos or the bigger toddler blocks. Wooden blocks don't interlock and are prone to falling with table bumping.
There's also magnatiles. Those are pretty stable depending on the shapes you're making with them.
My kids have wooden blocks, magnatiles, duplos and legos. They're gonna build goddammit! Admittedly though, the wooden blocks are not as popular as the other materials.
Strg Alt wrote: Hero Quest has seen a new version a few years ago. It would have been nice to see Space Crusade again instead of a lame Boarding Action game.
I use Hirst arts. Obviously for more money, but you can make blocks that are a lot more durable using other mixing materials than Plaster of Paris. Having said that, Plaster of Paris does a good enough job for a time. Over time Plaster of Paris will get banged up and will need to be replaced, and I would not use it for a permanent piece, but I would not exactly call it disposable. I gave my FLGS a PofP building as a gift almost 15 years ago, and it lasted for a few years at least of active usage as a piece of terrain there. I have not checked if it is still in the store, but I would assume that it is ground down a bit to a ruin if it is still in service.
Oh yeah if you wanna go durable go Dentalstone. I'm still gradually working my way through a bucket I got over a decade ago.
Usually the terrain survives for a long while, some I made and donated to a local FLGS is still in action after many years. Though needs the occasional bit of touchup when glue bonds fail.
Just offering quick, cheap and disposable options should people want them.
Another option is some foam and a textured roller. Saw a youtuber make good panel affects with such a method.
Zero interest whatsoever. Requiring specific terrain in very specific layouts for each mission is a hard no, especially for a game that probably won't be supported by this time next year. Kill Team is everything this is trying and failing to be, and if I want a small 40k game I can play a normal 500-1000 point game on normal terrain.
Necroagogo wrote: I'm interested but the high buy-in level has me hesitant. Anybody have any suggestions for alternative terrain (no access to 3D printer, sadly)?
I got a bunch of TTCombats Iron labyrinth sets... It's MDF. Looks pretty good, is partially a bit difficult to assemble but otherwise not bad.
Necroagogo wrote: I'm interested but the high buy-in level has me hesitant. Anybody have any suggestions for alternative terrain (no access to 3D printer, sadly)?
I know there's been a few recommendations but I didn't see insolation foam sheet mentioned. I'd use 1/4 to 1/2 inch thickness. (Probably 4 inch tall walls?) You'd just need a ruler, box cutter and a marker minimum. And maybe tape for the corners but most white glue or thot glue is doable and maybe some pins of some kind for extra support, could be toothpicks would work. After that thin cardboard layered over if you wish for some extra details. You could have enough left over material to make more terrain or trad it off or what ever. Or, you could cut it into tile sections and put holes into it and add corresponding posts to your walls...
The whole set could be made in 4 or 5 days with drying time. The cost would be low aside from the time investment. Just don't spray paint over foam that hasn't been coated in card stock or glue and or texture. I use white glue and different textures of sand and some times dry wall spackle on my own foam base terrain. Works, looks good totally worth it. And you can always add more to it.
Hope you found this helpful.
I think part of the problem is things like corridors are not part of the regular 40k terrain setup, so it's not too likely most players will already own something suitable. Since the terrain is such an integral part of the system that presents a problem for anyone wanting to dip their toe in to see if they like it. Yes, I can grab some foamcore, lego, random blocks etc, but that's more effort than I'm willing to put in for what should be a simple enough game mode, especially when combined with the cost of the book itself.
Slipspace wrote: I think part of the problem is things like corridors are not part of the regular 40k terrain setup, so it's not too likely most players will already own something suitable. Since the terrain is such an integral part of the system that presents a problem for anyone wanting to dip their toe in to see if they like it. Yes, I can grab some foamcore, lego, random blocks etc, but that's more effort than I'm willing to put in for what should be a simple enough game mode, especially when combined with the cost of the book itself.
I think this is a huge problem from a community stand point, there isn’t much a dedicated group isn’t or couldn’t all ready do with 40k.
And the buy in is expensive for what may not even last a year, and trusting GW to support anything into the next edition is sketchy.
If they had used 8th shake up better to lay a foundation to expand maybe.
With thoughtful writing you can have a mission system good for any edition, but I think GWs own tendency to make everything for right now, and cool hinders and staying power for these sorta things.
Even the narrative stuff I think is flat and boring, since it’s not really showing natural or interesting shifts of power.
Just super huge, the galaxy has changed, can it ever go back!
Eh, tired and let me thoughts run. GW makes me want to ignore it’s stuff and do other more fun things.
8th ed Apocalypse was a better idea than this honestly. And even that didnt last long even if the buy-in cost was minimal (and IMO the system was better than normal 40k was)
I've really hyped for this. I've already got the terrain since I bought the KT boxes, so little extra expense for me and I planned on making a House Variant for boarding action campaigns anyway, so this saved me a lot of time.
So far, (having yet to play it) I only have 2 minor gripes. 1, list building can be a little restrictive to armies with low cost units, since you can't go past 10 models, it's actually hard to get it all into the force org for some factions without taking really specific units in each list. 2. Most factions with small characters got an exception to this, but I wish marines had been able to take a second character IF it was an Elite choice. I think units like the Judiciar or the Company Champion could really shine in this mode, but they essentially takes 2 Force Org slots, one in Elite and it also prevents you from taking an HQ, and that's just too restrictive for what they bring.
usernamesareannoying wrote: does anyone else feel that a game like this would be better served by card tile ala space hulk or is that a step backwards?
i know ill personally struggle moving figs around some of the tight confines of the hulk.
theres no multi level terrain right?
I very much agree! And even with that there would be little stopping players from jazzing it up. A WHQ group I follow on Fb has several people making easy to elaborate tiles for their games.
I do think GW thinks that would not be flashy enough to sell to younger players but I could be wrong. And I'd do tiles if it were me and upgrade as I felt like it. I can see this as a solid hobby project.
I'm kind of thinking this terrain will go OOP after Season 2 for KT21 finishes, so getting two KT21 boxes worth will be in my long term plan no doubt. They're spamming the kit too hard, as if they're sitting on a significant stock of these sprues and just need to flush it all quick, in order to make room for new things
tauist wrote: I'm kind of thinking this terrain will go OOP after Season 2 for KT21 finishes, so getting two KT21 boxes worth will be in my long term plan no doubt. They're spamming the kit too hard, as if they're sitting on a significant stock of these sprues and just need to flush it all quick, in order to make room for new things
Eh. They made how many they make long time ago. These are cast specfically for these boxes.
tauist wrote: I'm kind of thinking this terrain will go OOP after Season 2 for KT21 finishes, so getting two KT21 boxes worth will be in my long term plan no doubt. They're spamming the kit too hard, as if they're sitting on a significant stock of these sprues and just need to flush it all quick, in order to make room for new things
Eh. They made how many they make long time ago. These are cast specfically for these boxes.
I suspect the push now is to try to get people who were either KT or 40k only to crossover and try the other side.
Strike while the iron is hot to get the molds to pay for themselves while boarding actions are the thing to do.
Necron player not interested because of overly restrictive troop choices. I will cannibalize anything that looks interesting from this and implement with OPR.
Pretty hyped for it. Seems a great way to get small, fast games in without too much hassle. The terrain isn't very fiddly so you can store it easily.
Watched the Tabletop Tactics stream about their impressions and they made some good points.
1. It's likely to stick around. Kill Team is a bespoke ruleset, but Boarding Actions very much feels like the 'intro to 40k' that the game needs to gather new players.
2. You don't need much to play it. Heck, just get a whiteboard and dry erase markers and jot down where the walls are, if you want to go real efficient.
3. Yes, you can use other terrain. While the maps use the Boarding Actions terrain, if you've already got stuff like the Necromunda/Zone Mortalis walls or others, you can use those, or make or 3d print others. All you really need are wall sections and door sections.
4. It feels balanced and fun, without some of the larger issues of larger 40k games, like being blown off the table turn 1 by alpha strike shooting.
It may be slow to catch on while people collect the terrain, but I think as we get the next two kill team boxes out and see more of the rules in the future Arks of Omens books in the future, I think it's got a chance to be very popular, especially in hobby stores or clubs that have limited table space, or for people that don't want to invest in a humongous army in order to play.
As a theme and supported format, damn right. Breaching bunkers, boarding ships and all kinds of other tunnel rat actions are just the best. Looking forwards to playing some of that with occasional non-narrative folks as well.
As a product, not so much. It's not a new thing, that stuff has always been an option and having a seal of officialness isn't a necessity for my gaming. It's not like folks haven't had plenty of ZoMo, 3D Space Hulk or Necromunda terrain before.
Any cool rules for fighting in a vacuum, zero gravity, radiation, you know, that sort of thing? Or is just rules for fighting in these close in corridors?
Bah, I'll probably just buy the space hulk expansion for my Wrath and Glory group.
Tokhuah wrote: Necron player not interested because of overly restrictive troop choices. I will cannibalize anything that looks interesting from this and implement with OPR.
Warriors, Immortals, Flayed ones, lychguards, deathmarks, hexmarks and Skorpeks isn't a terrible roster. Including the HQs as well. Illumanor would be a pain in the arse as well, those buffs being more important in the close confines.
drbored wrote: The terrain isn't very fiddly so you can store it easily.
You sure about that? Ash has made it pretty clear on all his videos on the subject that the terrain is kind of a chore to put together and configure.
Having put together two sets, I can't say it's perfect.
GW had to consider a few basic things and they put weight on more of those things than others...
A. The terrain has to plug together in a variety of configurations
B. The terrain needs to be sturdy enough to not fall over at a glance
C. The terrain needs openable doors without being flimsy
D. The terrain has to have a way to secure sections in place so it doesn't fall apart mid-battle
E. The terrain parts must be easily identifiable for quick construction of battlefields
So they gave us this. If I were to compare it to the Necromunda/Zone Mortalis terrain, I'd say I actually prefer that old terrain better, but it had flaws too.
The Necromunda terrain didn't lock together, so it was very easy to knock things over, especially if it's on a cardboard game board. The doors were MUCH easier to work with, but the door frames were relatively flimsy and could actually break if mishandled. Stuff could stack, but it was also very fiddly, especially if you included rails, stairs, or other bits.
This is basically the other extreme. In order to facilitate A thru E, they created locking mechanisms that are INCREDIBLY SNUG. If you nudge a piece of this, every piece that is connected is going to be ROCK SOLID, with zero wiggle room. You can open the doors without worrying about things being knocked-over mid-game.
The disadvantage is that things are INCREDIBLY SNUG and can actually hurt your hands in putting together and taking apart. Especially the pillar caps, which can be so snug that trying to pull them off, you can break a nail if you're not careful, and you'll damage the paint if you try to use a tool to pull them apart.
The solution? Sanding. Lots of filing and sanding. Sand the sides of the wall pieces so they fit together better and also cover them in masking tape before you prime/paint the wall sections. You can take a little dremel to the inside of the pillar caps and help loosen them up a little. The walls will wiggle, but they wont fall apart, since the caps will still keep everything together even with more wiggle room.
The doors are also a bit of a miss, as the hinges can come apart with repeated opening/closing of the doors, so you have to sand the rods that are part of the doors down a little bit and may need to also cover them for priming/painting too.
The result is a kit that requires a lot of extra work, like putting together a huge Forgeworld Resin kit levels of work. Is it perfect? No way, far from it.
But the boards look good and with that extra work you can make a product that's decent.
I'd MUCH prefer some sort of lego-system, magnets, or bespoke pieces that don't need to be disassembled, you just put them in key points on the board. But, that's not what we got, so here we are.
Tokhuah wrote: Necron player not interested because of overly restrictive troop choices. I will cannibalize anything that looks interesting from this and implement with OPR.
I play a lot of Necrons too and it doesn't look too bad to me since you don't HAVE to take any troops if you don't want to. For example, you could go with something like:
Overlord, Lychguardx 5, Flayed Ones x10, Deathmark x5, Warrior x10. Looks both very flighty and able to hold objectives well. Seems like it would be a good balance of objective holder and fighting units.
Another option for a melee Destroyer Theme: Skorpekh Lord, Skorpek Destroyers x6, Flayed Ones x10, Ophidian Destroyers x3. Very Melee flighty, can even go AoR, or I really think that custom dynasty with Rad-Wreathed is going to be nuts.
You could do warrior heavy if you wanted too, I think it could work like this: Royal Warden, Warriors x30, Flayed Ones x10. Yeah, I also think Flayed ones will be really good in boarding action and fit in most lists.
Personally I like the Canoptek AoR and want to try to make that work like this: Plasmancer with Atomizer Stave (I think this amount of mortals will just be busted), Technomancer with Control Node, Cryptothrall x2, Warriors x20, Scarab Swarm x3. The idea is that you have some warriors to guard the Chronomancer while he tosses out mortals, and the Technomancer tries to deathball with the Scarabs and the Cryptothralls. I'm mostly sad that the Wraiths didn't get an exception when the Ophidians did, because they'd be great in this and feel really thematic.
drbored wrote: The terrain isn't very fiddly so you can store it easily.
You sure about that? Ash has made it pretty clear on all his videos on the subject that the terrain is kind of a chore to put together and configure.
As someone who owns both sets, it's not all that bad. Some pieces can stick a little here and there (and I haven't painted them yet so that might make it change a bit) but I've found it pretty easy to put together, take aparat and reconfigure. Yeah it takes a bit of time, but the modularity is fantastic. Personally this is my favourite terrain I've ever gotten from GW.
drbored wrote: Pretty hyped for it. Seems a great way to get small, fast games in without too much hassle. The terrain isn't very fiddly so you can store it easily.
Watched the Tabletop Tactics stream about their impressions and they made some good points.
1. It's likely to stick around. Kill Team is a bespoke ruleset, but Boarding Actions very much feels like the 'intro to 40k' that the game needs to gather new players.
I'd be very, very sceptical about that. GW has released loads of these alternate game modes in the past and they've almost all been abandoned, or at least completely forgotten about within a year - two at the most.
We had things like jungle fighting rules, city fight, Apocalypse, planetfall (something like that, it was so briefly a thing I can't even remember much about it) and every single one just disappeared. If they really want to make it a 40k intro game they need to make it more accessible with a proper boxed set including the terrain, models and full rules all in one place. I won't be holding my breath.
jaredb wrote: I think it's really cool, but there is no way i can justify buying the terrain set.
Its easier to justify the Terrain than it is the books/rules. History tells us the books won't pay for themselves as a new edition drops, the books become worthless, and the new edition either doesn't take them into account, or tries to replace them with a new set of books to buy. At least you can use the terrain in other game modes etc.
We had things like jungle fighting rules, city fight, Apocalypse, planetfall (something like that, it was so briefly a thing I can't even remember much about it) and every single one just disappeared. If they really want to make it a 40k intro game they need to make it more accessible with a proper boxed set including the terrain, models and full rules all in one place. I won't be holding my breath.
I think GW's big issue with many of those rulesets is that they never kept them updated as new editions rolled around (save perhaps apoc, though that was totally redesigned, so... you could argue both ways.) My point is that I think it would stick around if it gets some kind of real support over time. It's tangential association with Kill Team give me hope that it's more likely to stick around than most, but I would agree that it is far from a sure thing.
It's just the flavour de jour of the current running KT21 Season. Once S3 starts this fall, it will be swiped under the rug in short order. However, I can foresee the terrain kits becoming sought after items once the product goes OOP, so if you see em somewhere on the cheap, maybe grab them now?
I think the Tabletop Tactics comment was comical and was proof of those guys absolutely knowing where their bread is buttered. The massive, massive preponderance of evidence (both in the days of old GDubs and nu) is that the Boarding Actions ruleset will not get long term support. Apoc/KT are not counterexamples to this (same models but different game - plus, GW have in no way supported Apocalypse long-term lol), neither are KT/Necromunda/Bloodbowl (different models, different game).
Tokhuah wrote: Necron player not interested because of overly restrictive troop choices. I will cannibalize anything that looks interesting from this and implement with OPR.
Warriors, Immortals, Flayed ones, lychguards, deathmarks, hexmarks and Skorpeks isn't a terrible roster. Including the HQs as well. Illumanor would be a pain in the arse as well, those buffs being more important in the close confines.
No bugs means no sale for me when I can use the models with OPR rules and configure the same game. Hope others have fun with it.
As someone who owns both sets, it's not all that bad. Some pieces can stick a little here and there (and I haven't painted them yet so that might make it change a bit) but I've found it pretty easy to put together, take aparat and reconfigure. Yeah it takes a bit of time, but the modularity is fantastic. Personally this is my favourite terrain I've ever gotten from GW.
Also worth understanding that "Ash" is not at all the type of person willing to put any kind of effort like that into a optimizing a product. His entire approach to building and painting is defined and limited by his requirement to get something good-enough-to-go in the time between he receives the product and the time he's allowed to post a video featuring it. A normal customer who isn't trying to film content in a short window can do more with the product.
As someone who owns both sets, it's not all that bad. Some pieces can stick a little here and there (and I haven't painted them yet so that might make it change a bit) but I've found it pretty easy to put together, take aparat and reconfigure. Yeah it takes a bit of time, but the modularity is fantastic. Personally this is my favourite terrain I've ever gotten from GW.
Also worth understanding that "Ash" is not at all the type of person willing to put any kind of effort like that into a optimizing a product. His entire approach to building and painting is defined and limited by his requirement to get something good-enough-to-go in the time between he receives the product and the time he's allowed to post a video featuring it. A normal customer who isn't trying to film content in a short window can do more with the product.
"You can invest an exceptional level of effort to fix the design mistakes" is not a compelling sales pitch for a product.
Altruizine wrote: So you leave your mold lines alone and don't drill out your barrels?
Nice to see you back, btw.
Mold lines and un-drilled barrels are an inevitable result of injection molding technology. It's annoying to deal with but there's nothing the manufacturer can do to eliminate the problem. Screwing up the fit tolerances by making the parts the wrong size is not inevitable, it's a clear error by the part designer.
tauist wrote: I'm kind of thinking this terrain will go OOP after Season 2 for KT21 finishes, so getting two KT21 boxes worth will be in my long term plan no doubt. They're spamming the kit too hard, as if they're sitting on a significant stock of these sprues and just need to flush it all quick, in order to make room for new things
Eh. They made how many they make long time ago. These are cast specfically for these boxes.
Sort of true. But boxes that don't sell will be cannibalized for different kids and boxes. I'm not exactly sure they would have made so many new sets of Reivers given how unpopular they are.
tauist wrote: I'm kind of thinking this terrain will go OOP after Season 2 for KT21 finishes, so getting two KT21 boxes worth will be in my long term plan no doubt. They're spamming the kit too hard, as if they're sitting on a significant stock of these sprues and just need to flush it all quick, in order to make room for new things
Eh. They made how many they make long time ago. These are cast specfically for these boxes.
Sort of true. But boxes that don't sell will be cannibalized for different kids and boxes. I'm not exactly sure they would have made so many new sets of Reivers given how unpopular they are.
Apparently they flew off shelves on release, most popular of initial Primaris wave
tauist wrote: I'm kind of thinking this terrain will go OOP after Season 2 for KT21 finishes, so getting two KT21 boxes worth will be in my long term plan no doubt. They're spamming the kit too hard, as if they're sitting on a significant stock of these sprues and just need to flush it all quick, in order to make room for new things
Eh. They made how many they make long time ago. These are cast specfically for these boxes.
Sort of true. But boxes that don't sell will be cannibalized for different kids and boxes. I'm not exactly sure they would have made so many new sets of Reivers given how unpopular they are.
Thats not at all how that works. The labor involved with "cannibalizing" unsold stock into new bundles like that is excessive and prone to all sorts of potential quality issues, it wouldn't be financially worthwhile for GW to do it that way and they would probably lose money on it rather than make money. GW also doesn't really warehouse unsold product like that. They produce what they produce and send it out to distribution at independent retailers, distributors, and their own shops. They don't warehouse unsold inventory at the factory, that all goes to their e-com warehouse which is just a big shipping center, they don't have product assemblers and production staff there to repackage products for them.
tauist wrote: I'm kind of thinking this terrain will go OOP after Season 2 for KT21 finishes, so getting two KT21 boxes worth will be in my long term plan no doubt. They're spamming the kit too hard, as if they're sitting on a significant stock of these sprues and just need to flush it all quick, in order to make room for new things
Eh. They made how many they make long time ago. These are cast specfically for these boxes.
Sort of true. But boxes that don't sell will be cannibalized for different kids and boxes. I'm not exactly sure they would have made so many new sets of Reivers given how unpopular they are.
no, this is just basically just an expansion of the current KT season.
i'm not against playing smaller games but since it seems most people choose to play 2k point games, and most dont seem interested in smaller games i doubt many will be interested in this.
tauist wrote: I'm kind of thinking this terrain will go OOP after Season 2 for KT21 finishes, so getting two KT21 boxes worth will be in my long term plan no doubt. They're spamming the kit too hard, as if they're sitting on a significant stock of these sprues and just need to flush it all quick, in order to make room for new things
Eh. They made how many they make long time ago. These are cast specfically for these boxes.
Sort of true. But boxes that don't sell will be cannibalized for different kids and boxes. I'm not exactly sure they would have made so many new sets of Reivers given how unpopular they are.
Thats not at all how that works. The labor involved with "cannibalizing" unsold stock into new bundles like that is excessive and prone to all sorts of potential quality issues, it wouldn't be financially worthwhile for GW to do it that way and they would probably lose money on it rather than make money. GW also doesn't really warehouse unsold product like that. They produce what they produce and send it out to distribution at independent retailers, distributors, and their own shops. They don't warehouse unsold inventory at the factory, that all goes to their e-com warehouse which is just a big shipping center, they don't have product assemblers and production staff there to repackage products for them.
Then how do they get the new Instruction/datasheet into the box so fast?
Why do the GW locations pack up and ship boxes of stuff back to GW every so often?
It may not extend to the independent retailers but GW does refresh their own store shelves. They don't throw that stuff away when it gets shipped back.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And to get back on topic - It just occured to me - after seeing that "Break immersion" thread that's an issue I've got with Arks of Omen too. Sure not all Arks Of Omen will be built on Heresy Era SM Legion craft, but even the transports and supply ships would have large corridors and rooms for moving pallets of supplies and such. The ones built on Heresy Era Battle Barges and such would have been built with Dreadnaughts and Thunderhawk Landing Bays and such in mind. Yet all of the corridors and rooms are pretty much too small for even a 10 man Marine squad. You see any rooms big enough to be a martial training center for Marines in their downtime? Or to pit two slaves against each other while a bunch of marines gather round and cheer/bet?
It builds like legos, surely the map layouts being the way they are is the handiwork of the mission designers? As an example, the recent WH+ batrep with Goff rocker vs Noise Marine, that board had a large open area as "the stage" - nothing prevents such layouts
tauist wrote: It builds like legos, surely the map layouts being the way they are is the handiwork of the mission designers? As an example, the recent WH+ batrep with Goff rocker vs Noise Marine, that board had a large open area as "the stage" - nothing prevents such layouts
GW makes the boards. And the rules themselves prevent things like Dreads on a spaceship filled with Space Marines. That's the immersion breaker.
GW has a combo box of the terrain and rules up. The GW description says:
Boarding Actions Terrain Set - a battlefield in a box, including two double-sided gaming boards depicting the interior deck of a space craft, plus a massive 68 pieces of modular spaceship themed terrain. These include loads of detailed walls, bulkheads and hatches, with pillars to tie them all together. This terrain is fully compatible with the pieces found in the Kill Team: Into the Dark and Kill Team: Shadowvaults boxed sets.
Does that mean "It's the same terrain sprues"? I'm just trying to see if there's anything new in the box...
from what I gathered its the same sprues that were found in the previous boxes. As I have 3 copies of Into the Dark and 2 copies of Shadowvaults... I think I'm good to go.
So essentially they're saying a kit is fully compatible with itself?! The intercessors in the battleforce are fully compatible with the intercessor box! Whoo!
cody.d. wrote: So essentially they're saying a kit is fully compatible with itself?! The intercessors in the battleforce are fully compatible with the intercessor box! Whoo!
I'm still trying to figure out who still needs intercessors? They keep making these value-added boxes with stuff I don't value enough to buy the box. I didn't sell the Intercessors bits on Ebay from the launch boxed sets, I doubt I COULD sell them now. Start swapping the newer and less included stuff into the boxes and I'm going to start paying attention - and that's win-win. There are a number of things I want but haven't wanted ENOUGH to buy yet. Put a couple of those together in a value box, and I'm buying. Leave them out and I'm still keeping the individual boxes in my cart saying Maybe next week. I play UM, I already have somewhere around 4 Calgars, 2 Tiggies, 3 Cassius (One is Deathwatch, yeah). Don't put named in a Value box. Put the Gravis Captain with multiple melee options. I want three of him. Well two, because the original Gravis Captain already had a Power Sword. Put new releases that fill out the missing data sheets - a gravis lieutenant, Jumping Melee Primaris.
Not having read the rest of the thread, I think Boarding Action is filling the role that Kill Team was kind of aimed at: being a low cost entry point into 40k.
Kill Team couldn't really do that because the mechanics are too different and your troops can be armed with gear that has no meaning if you want to expand to 40k, where Boarding Action is mostly 40k in miniature. There's even a few sensible things like not being able to kill models at range if nobody in the attacking unit can see it that really should get ported into the core 40k rules.
Necron one is quite a nice army builder for sure, especially as a bolt on to Indomitus or a Combat Patrol. Or indeed, both. Not a massive amount of repetition between those three, and even then it’s most Warriors, who can usually find a place in a list.
GW provides a photo of models that are not usable in the format and even mentions them in the description. In the field of gerontology we typically provide home support for people who are at this level of mental decline.
Kinetochore wrote: Well I was really looking fwd to giving boarding actions a go but its impossible to get the rules.
pre-ordered Abaddon book and just had email stating a 10th March restock date!
Anyone know if the full rules for Boarding actions are in Angron?
They are not.
Mustering forces rules
Some more strats/gear/enhancements for warlord
Some faction specific stuff
Rules for the kill Team terrain bitz
Bunch of new missions.
Not really worth the $ imo
