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Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 08:15:17


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Since discussion of the Rogal Dorn hull plate (or lack thereof) is threatening to take over the Imperial Guard news thread I am moving discussion here.

This would be the place for discussion whether or not we need to cover our Dorn Holes, how best to close a Dorn Hole, humorous takes, rending of garments and/or setting armies on fire.

Spoiler:


Note that there is now an STL for the missing plate, for people who own a 3d printer and for some reason want to fill their Dorn Hole but not print an entire tank.

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/dorn-tank-power-bottom-filler


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 08:20:55


Post by: Aecus Decimus




The happy meal Macharius is inexcusable for a supposedly premium product sold at a premium price.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 08:24:03


Post by: Pyroalchi


As much as I agree to the point that it is easy enough to fix this and one will rarely if it all look at the bottom of this tank... this bothers me a lot more then it should.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 08:26:04


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


I do not need more unpainted plastic in my closet so this has helped me resist temptation and given me some good laughs so thank you GW for including the Dorn Hole.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 08:34:20


Post by: Dolnikan


I find it a pretty big flaw in the model because it limits what kinds of terrain you can put the model on (like going over an obstacle) without it looking silly. I get the coat saving argument but honestly making another mould isn't that expensive compared to what it would sell.. I'm generally already shocked by how empty many GW boxes are compared to other manufacturers. Additionally, it just feels like an unfinished product and at that price point you kind of want a finished one?


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 08:42:35


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


BREAKING

Rogal Dorn to be reboxed with 2 rectangular cavalry bases so players can shut their Dorn Holes!


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 09:05:23


Post by: Albertorius


I would only buy it if there are rules for hiding stuff under it


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 09:13:38


Post by: Tsagualsa


 Albertorius wrote:
I would only buy it if there are rules for hiding stuff under it


Things i can see in the immediate future:

- Tyranid/GSC conversion with some beastie wearing the Dorn like a Hermit Crab wears its shell
- Ork Looted Dorn Flintstones car Conversion
- ''Dornholing'' competitions in gaming clubs, where you flip your Dorns to the back and try to hit the Dornhole with thrown dice.



Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 09:26:50


Post by: Dudeface


 Dolnikan wrote:
I find it a pretty big flaw in the model because it limits what kinds of terrain you can put the model on (like going over an obstacle) without it looking silly. I get the coat saving argument but honestly making another mould isn't that expensive compared to what it would sell.. I'm generally already shocked by how empty many GW boxes are compared to other manufacturers. Additionally, it just feels like an unfinished product and at that price point you kind of want a finished one?


I also enjoy my several hundred ton tanks being balanced on 1 track as it realistically balances the bulk of it's weight on a wooden fence post.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 09:33:30


Post by: tneva82


 Dolnikan wrote:
I find it a pretty big flaw in the model because it limits what kinds of terrain you can put the model on (like going over an obstacle) without it looking silly. I get the coat saving argument but honestly making another mould isn't that expensive compared to what it would sell.. I'm generally already shocked by how empty many GW boxes are compared to other manufacturers. Additionally, it just feels like an unfinished product and at that price point you kind of want a finished one?


Well 5 digit sum of pounds(closer to 6). Do you really think it's going to increase sales that much?-)

Lol. I trust anybody who ordered and complains returns the box then. Otherwise you are hypocrite.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 09:37:26


Post by: Tsagualsa


tneva82 wrote:

Lol. I trust anybody who ordered and complains returns the box then. Otherwise you are hypocrite.


So far, there have been a total 15 downloads of a specific STL for a Dorn floor plate, up from 7 yesterday:

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/dorn-tank-power-bottom-filler

So at least a couple of people seem to care enough to spend a handful of dollars to remedy the situation.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 09:43:12


Post by: kodos


if I buy a premium model, for a premium price, I expect to get one

it does not matter if I can easily close it on my own, 3D print the missing plate or that no one will ever see it if I put a base under the tank

If you can print parts to fix it, you can just print the full model instead
and if you like conversion and don't care you would go with the cheapest base not the most expensive one


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 09:56:31


Post by: Mozzamanx


It's a £55 tank. At that price I don't think I should have to choose between an intact hull and decorative extras.
If GW didn't have such an aversion to anything non-plastic then they could make the plate in resin themselves and just pop it in the box as an extra.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 10:07:27


Post by: Apple fox


It’s rather disappointing, if I was to revamp my guard. I would probably like to pick one up.
But this makes the whole kit way more of a pain to deal with.

And I would sacrifice some of that customisation for a full tank, if GW needs too on there expensive premium tank kit.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 10:07:54


Post by: Not Online!!!


i am still of the opinion this thing shouldn't have been made and instead that we should've gotten plastic malcador.
alas


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 10:11:12


Post by: Dudeface


 kodos wrote:
if I buy a premium model, for a premium price, I expect to get one

it does not matter if I can easily close it on my own, 3D print the missing plate or that no one will ever see it if I put a base under the tank

If you can print parts to fix it, you can just print the full model instead
and if you like conversion and don't care you would go with the cheapest base not the most expensive one


If someone wanted the cheapest alternative or was into 3d printing then the fact the base plate is missing wouldn't matter, they'd never buy it anyway.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 10:13:02


Post by: aphyon


Yes... $90 US for an incomplete model. like a $10 green army men tank. chock up another mark in the "how low can GW go" tally.

Very glad i don't buy anything from them anymore.




Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 10:17:39


Post by: PaddyMick


 Albertorius wrote:

Things i can see in the immediate future:

- Tyranid/GSC conversion with some beastie wearing the Dorn like a Hermit Crab wears its shell
- Ork Looted Dorn Flintstones car Conversion
- ''Dornholing'' competitions in gaming clubs, where you flip your Dorns to the back and try to hit the Dornhole with thrown dice.





Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 10:24:28


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Gw listens to their fans!

[Thumb - 323891736_1286316128895455_5472742444834559533_n.jpg]


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 10:34:54


Post by: aphyon



Bwahaha..."yeah they heard you...now buy the rest of the kit we didn't include for a small added fee."



Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 10:45:34


Post by: sandor1988


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Gw listens to their fans!


hilariously cant figure out if parody or not, even checked warhammer community - because this legit sounds like GW move lol


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 10:50:56


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


sandor1988 wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Gw listens to their fans!


hilariously cant figure out if parody or not, even checked warhammer community - because this legit sounds like GW move lol


I think any post with the phrase 'GW listens to their fans" can be safely assumed to be parody.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 11:01:52


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I do not need more unpainted plastic in my closet so this has helped me resist temptation and given me some good laughs so thank you GW for including the Dorn Hole.

The Dornholio needs plastic for it's bunghole.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 11:06:02


Post by: A Town Called Malus


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
sandor1988 wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Gw listens to their fans!


hilariously cant figure out if parody or not, even checked warhammer community - because this legit sounds like GW move lol


I think any post with the phrase 'GW listens to their fans" can be safely assumed to be parody.


Oh they listen, but not in the "we are taking your feedback on board and will act to address this issue" sense, but rather the "And how can Comcast help you today?" sense.



Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 11:06:03


Post by: Dysartes


tneva82 wrote:
Well 5 digit sum of pounds(closer to 6). Do you really think it's going to increase sales that much?-)

Given how much of the mould-making kit GW has in-house these days - and how frequently they're chucking out short-run characters for events - there's no way the cost of making one sprue is pushing six figures. Honestly, I'd be shocked it if was above the low five figures, and probably only reaching there due to inflation over the last two-to-three years.

When was the last time we got a cost estimate for producing a mould for a sprue from someone who knows GW's processes, rather than someone from the outside looking in?

One thing we can say for GW is that they've invested a lot in the mould-making tech over the years.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 11:11:44


Post by: Tsagualsa


 Dysartes wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well 5 digit sum of pounds(closer to 6). Do you really think it's going to increase sales that much?-)

Given how much of the mould-making kit GW has in-house these days - and how frequently they're chucking out short-run characters for events - there's no way the cost of making one sprue is pushing six figures. Honestly, I'd be shocked it if was above the low five figures, and probably only reaching there due to inflation over the last two-to-three years.

When was the last time we got a cost estimate for producing a mould for a sprue from someone who knows GW's processes, rather than someone from the outside looking in?

One thing we can say for GW is that they've invested a lot in the mould-making tech over the years.


From their annual reports, we know that their total cost for mould tooling per year is in the middle of the single-digit million range, with about the same amount invested in machinery and software every couple of years. Overall expenses for moulding and tooling amount to around 10 million pounds yearly. From that, you can infern an upper limit to the cost of any given sprue.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 14:40:03


Post by: xttz


 Dysartes wrote:
how frequently they're chucking out short-run characters for events - there's no way the cost of making one sprue is pushing six figures


The reason most molds are produced from steel is for durability. They're designed to last 10-20 years, although you will still see mold lines gradually increase over time as the tool wears down.

However it's possible to produce cheaper aluminum injection molds. These wear out much faster and are typically only good for a few thousand uses (compared to 100k+ for steel), but are ideal for limited-run models that are made once then dropped.

Edit: Also to clarify; the six-figure cost is likely for a large complex kit with multiple large sprues, such as vehicles. Smaller sprues for models like characters will cost far less.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 15:27:37


Post by: kodos


Dudeface wrote:
 kodos wrote:
if I buy a premium model, for a premium price, I expect to get one

it does not matter if I can easily close it on my own, 3D print the missing plate or that no one will ever see it if I put a base under the tank

If you can print parts to fix it, you can just print the full model instead
and if you like conversion and don't care you would go with the cheapest base not the most expensive one


If someone wanted the cheapest alternative or was into 3d printing then the fact the base plate is missing wouldn't matter, they'd never buy it anyway.


that is the point, if I like to fix my models, why should I buy GW at all. You can get stuff that needs a little fixing way cheaper while if I pay premium I don't want to fix something, no matter how "little" it might be


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 16:47:14


Post by: EviscerationPlague


Defending GW here is the ultimate consoomer move. Like, the kit ain't finished LMAO


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 16:53:39


Post by: Crispy78


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I do not need more unpainted plastic in my closet so this has helped me resist temptation and given me some good laughs so thank you GW for including the Dorn Hole.

The Dornholio needs plastic for it's bunghole.


This passed by without comment, so I just want to backtrack slightly and say bloody well done - that cracked me up


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 17:13:22


Post by: MinscS2


Getting increasingly annoyed with GW right now;

- Dornkit is clearly not finished and this bugs me more than I thougth it would. Had I known that before I ordered I wouldn't have bothered and kept using my Macharius as a count-as-Dorn instead.
- Sneakily releases a new pts-update today without a word that nerfs Inceptors and nothing else. Yes Inceptors w/o AoC is clearly worth 40/60 pts...
- Does not care to buff for instance Tyranids or LoV with the new pts-update they released (they shall have their 38% winrate it seems).
- Completely ignores the fact that they've released 30k-kits for 40k that needs pts-adjustments now when AoC is gone (like the Kratos and Leviathan Dread.)

Get a effing grip GW!



Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 17:26:15


Post by: Mentlegen324


Is this the 3rd time they've done this sort of thing, or are there more? I had no idea a few other kits were like it until seeing this, but both the Hammerfall bunker and Dunerider have no bottoms despite not being mounted on bases.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 17:31:03


Post by: Dudeface


 MinscS2 wrote:
Getting increasingly annoyed with GW right now;

- Dornkit is clearly not finished and this bugs me more than I thougth it would. Had I known that before I ordered I wouldn't have bothered and kept using my Macharius as a count-as-Dorn instead.
- Sneakily releases a new pts-update today without a word that nerfs Inceptors and nothing else. Yes Inceptors w/o AoC is clearly worth 40/60 pts...
- Does not care to buff for instance Tyranids or LoV with the new pts-update they released (they shall have their 38% winrate it seems).
- Completely ignores the fact that they've released 30k-kits for 40k that needs pts-adjustments now when AoC is gone (like the Kratos and Leviathan Dread.)

Get a effing grip GW!



Plasma inceptors are definitely worth more than 40pts, tyranids need to work out where they are after the nerfs, given they've been dominant for 6+ months I think it's a little much to complain after 1 weekend, same for votann. I don't think the FW marine vehicles have ever had any adjustments for anything the entire edition, why start now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Is this the 3rd time they've done this sort of thing, or are there more? I had no idea a few other kits were like it until seeing this, but both the Hammerfall bunker and Dunerider have no bottoms despite not being mounted on bases.


Most terrain doesn't have a base or solid bottom so the hammerfall is fine. The dunerider literally nobody anywhere ever complained or pointed it out that I know of. I wasn't aware they didn't have a bottom having seen them in the flesh on a table multiple times until this week.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 17:47:53


Post by: MinscS2


Dudeface wrote:

Plasma inceptors are definitely worth more than 40pts, But hardly 60, especially without AoC tyranids need to work out where they are after the nerfs, given they've been dominant for 6+ months I think it's a little much to complain after 1 weekend It's the principle, if they can bother to nerf something they should bother to buff something that needs it, same for votann Haha what? LoV where dominant for 6+ months? Or dominant at all? You're joking right?. I don't think the FW marine vehicles have ever had any adjustments for anything the entire edition, why start now?What "FW marine vehicles"? Neither the Kratos nor the Levithans are FW-kits, they're plastic sold directly by GW.



Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 17:48:29


Post by: Daedalus81


I'm glad they hit interceptors as it's going to prevent a bunch of false sales. They probably should have made them 35 base with +15 for plasma, but this is probably an 'oh gak' fix not a balance pass.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 17:51:08


Post by: MinscS2


 Daedalus81 wrote:
I'm glad they hit interceptors as it's going to prevent a bunch of false sales. They probably should have made them 35 base with +15 for plasma, but this is probably an 'oh gak' fix not a balance pass.


Yeah I'd be fine with that. Bolter-Inceptors are overpriced at 40 ppm and Plasma-Inceptors are underpriced, but they're way overpriced at 60 ppm. 35/50 would be a decent compromise.

The current "fix" means both Inceptor-variants are overpriced, seeing as they weren't amazing to begin with and then ended up being one of few (the only?) Primaris-unit that lost AoC without getting compensated for it one way or another.
It really screams panic-nerf, which GW sadly have started doing more and more often.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 18:07:23


Post by: Crimson


What the Inceptor point cost has to do with Rogal Dorn’s bottom?


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 18:08:06


Post by: Dudeface


 MinscS2 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:

Plasma inceptors are definitely worth more than 40pts, But hardly 60, especially without AoC tyranids need to work out where they are after the nerfs, given they've been dominant for 6+ months I think it's a little much to complain after 1 weekend It's the principle, if they can bother to nerf something they should bother to buff something that needs it, same for votann Haha what? LoV where dominant for 6+ months? Or dominant at all? You're joking right?. I don't think the FW marine vehicles have ever had any adjustments for anything the entire edition, why start now?What "FW marine vehicles"? Neither the Kratos nor the Levithans are FW-kits, they're plastic sold directly by GW.



Votann were above 60% at the end of the last season and its acknowledged they were still a bit too good.

Inceptors maybe don't need to be 60 but let's see what happens, same for nids because there's still next to no data for anything for you to actually be this angry about.

Also, the imperial armour rules for the leviathan were published in October 2020, they were made by forgeworld at the time as the plastic kit was released 20th August 2022. The jratos is not a forgeworld kit admittedly but it's also not a 40k kit if you hadn't noticed, it has token rules as a buy in incentive from its release and features in no 40k publication.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 18:14:54


Post by: Apple fox


Dudeface wrote:
 MinscS2 wrote:
Getting increasingly annoyed with GW right now;

- Dornkit is clearly not finished and this bugs me more than I thougth it would. Had I known that before I ordered I wouldn't have bothered and kept using my Macharius as a count-as-Dorn instead.
- Sneakily releases a new pts-update today without a word that nerfs Inceptors and nothing else. Yes Inceptors w/o AoC is clearly worth 40/60 pts...
- Does not care to buff for instance Tyranids or LoV with the new pts-update they released (they shall have their 38% winrate it seems).
- Completely ignores the fact that they've released 30k-kits for 40k that needs pts-adjustments now when AoC is gone (like the Kratos and Leviathan Dread.)

Get a effing grip GW!



Plasma inceptors are definitely worth more than 40pts, tyranids need to work out where they are after the nerfs, given they've been dominant for 6+ months I think it's a little much to complain after 1 weekend, same for votann. I don't think the FW marine vehicles have ever had any adjustments for anything the entire edition, why start now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Is this the 3rd time they've done this sort of thing, or are there more? I had no idea a few other kits were like it until seeing this, but both the Hammerfall bunker and Dunerider have no bottoms despite not being mounted on bases.


Most terrain doesn't have a base or solid bottom so the hammerfall is fine. The dunerider literally nobody anywhere ever complained or pointed it out that I know of. I wasn't aware they didn't have a bottom having seen them in the flesh on a table multiple times until this week.


Isn’t the dune rider a hovercraft so the skirt itself should life it up? Or the lack of a bottom like the dorn? Since I find it anoying and glad I didn’t pick one up yet.
But it is less of a issue since the tank itself sits flat, with the dorn being raised.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 18:29:51


Post by: Polonius


My extremely lukewarm take on the missing hull plate is that while it's weird and clearly bothers a lot of people, I'm not sure it bothers me, and if I had to pick between hull plate, all the extra guns and toys, or paying an extra $20 or so... I'll take the current solution.

I'll be honest, I do chuckle a bit every time somebody brings up fine scale models comparing them to GW. GW products are not intrinsically worth what they charge, and nobody with half a brain thinks so. Instead of buying a Rogal Dorn, I could buy a lot of things for 90 bucks that would also be enjoyable. maybe a nice bottle of scotch. But that's the beauty of hobby spending: you buy what makes us happy.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 20:22:34


Post by: Insectum7


That giant gap in the Dorn is unforgiveable. Imagine buying a scale model kit with a giant hole in it. Terrible.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 20:41:07


Post by: drbored


lol

lmao

people that do LEDs are celebrating at all the space they have to work in there


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 20:44:21


Post by: Gitkikka


Since Squats are back, we can't use the term 'Squatted' when we speak of something missing or gone from rotation.

Now we must say "Dornholed'.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 21:42:10


Post by: Daedalus81


 Insectum7 wrote:
That giant gap in the Dorn is unforgiveable. Imagine buying a scale model kit with a giant hole in it. Terrible.


Threads like this just remind me of the good old days.

Spoiler:


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/25 22:00:29


Post by: Insectum7


 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
That giant gap in the Dorn is unforgiveable. Imagine buying a scale model kit with a giant hole in it. Terrible.


Threads like this just remind me of the good old days.

Spoiler:

Are you saying GW shouldn't have shipped a complete model? Or are you just saying people just shouldn't criticize GW?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
drbored wrote:
lol

lmao

people that do LEDs are celebrating at all the space they have to work in there
The same would be true if the model also came with a piece to cover it.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/26 10:02:31


Post by: leopard


 Crimson wrote:
What the Inceptor point cost has to do with Rogal Dorn’s bottom?


maybe thats where the point costs come from?


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/26 10:37:30


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


If you’re that bothered about it missing a baseplate, a cheap solution would be to use some kind of soft material to stuff the void with.

Perhaps tissue of some kind. I presume we all have bogs in our abodes, so you should have some you can lay your hands on.

Yes.

TP.

TP for the great DORNHOLIO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also? Please, please stop claiming this is an “incomplete” model.

It’s not. It’s not a design flaw or a missing sprue which GW intended to include, only to destroy the mould it’s produced from.

It’s a deliberate design choice. By no means one you have to happy with. But it’s not incomplete. At all. Any more than most large models being hollow makes them incomplete because they’re not solid plastic. Or that not every tank/vehicle kit having a fully detailed interior makes those kits in anyway incomplete.



Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/26 14:57:42


Post by: Drachii


I absolutely could not care less. I have no idea where they would have put a large extra rectangle of plastic on the sprues.

I don't know where all this lukewarm 'outrage' was when the Dunerider came out without an under-panel. Or the ork buggies.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/26 15:24:12


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


To everyone complaining about the Dorn, just literally buy a Baneblade. Better model in every way. Unless you are trying to play the game with it. Then it sucks. But for model's sake, just buy Baneblades.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/26 15:30:55


Post by: Daedalus81


 Insectum7 wrote:

Are you saying GW shouldn't have shipped a complete model? Or are you just saying people just shouldn't criticize GW?



Neither! I see a lot of what seems to be considerably angry people ( given the language ) who will likely still buy models from them.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/26 17:15:05


Post by: Vankraken


I feel like it would be one thing if it just didn't have a detailed bottom but it is just an open hole...

I remember putting together the Guard/Tempestus Taurox and wondering why GW would have all this interior modeling for a vehicle that doesn't have ports that you can open and very tiny vision slits. And yet we have a tank which has an open void under it because they didn't want to make a piece of plastic to cover it up. And frankly you see the underside of an armored vehicle model far more when playing the game than you do the interior of one unless it's open topped.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/26 17:21:34


Post by: EviscerationPlague


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


TP for the great DORNHOLIO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also? Please, please stop claiming this is an “incomplete” model.

It’s not.

I've never bought a model tank missing the bottom, so yes it's incomplete LMAO

You what tank had an incomplete bottom? A cheap green and gray armymen set I had as a kid. Difference there is for that $10 I got 60+ dudes, the tank, and artillery. At that price point it's forgiven though.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/26 17:22:37


Post by: Tsagualsa


EviscerationPlague wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


TP for the great DORNHOLIO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also? Please, please stop claiming this is an “incomplete” model.

It’s not.

I've never bought a model tank missing the bottom, so yes it's incomplete LMAO

You what tank had an incomplete bottom? A cheap green and gray armymen set I had as a kid. Difference there is for that $10 I got 60+ dudes, the tank, and artillery. At that price point it's forgiven though.


If you want to split hairs, it's a complete model of an incomplete design.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/26 17:36:27


Post by: Dudeface


If they included the bottom plate, the sales would have been the same, people would have complained about something else. Seemingly it would be "but muh field guns unit size" again.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/26 17:58:51


Post by: Skinnereal


Does adding the plate push other parts off the sprue?
Do you want the hole filling, or fewer parts?
I haven't seen the sprue, nor the number of bitz options on it, but I'd take having a Dornhole over fewer bitz. Or the £5 more they'd charge for the extra half-sprue of Dornhole plate.

I'm never going to turn over the model when using it at the table, so the hole is not going ever to be seen. And I don't have to waste paint painting it.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/26 18:09:14


Post by: Lord Damocles


The only possible option would be that GW gouge us for an extra sprue; so actually, our benevolent corporate overlords are doing us a favour by leaving a big hole in our £55 plastic tank.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/26 19:12:50


Post by: Daedalus81


 Lord Damocles wrote:
The only possible option would be that GW gouge us for an extra sprue; so actually, our benevolent corporate overlords are doing us a favour by leaving a big hole in our £55 plastic tank.


Let's pretend we're running the business for the moment.

Clearly the plate would not fit on the provided sprues so our options are as follows:

- An extra sprue. It certainly would not fill the sprue so either you have a fourth mold for a single piece or you find a way to get designers to add more stuff. You now have more cost to pass on.
- An extra sprue with 4 or 5 of them, clip them, and put one in each box. In that scenario you have a high risk for losing quality control. You now have more cost to pass on.
- A resin piece that makes assembly more difficult and has the same quality control issue as above. You now have more cost to pass on and a higher number of complaints from customers totally confused as to why their plastic glue doesn't work.

Or

- Leave a hole in the bottom. Let the internet spaz out and wait for them to move on to the next outrage.



Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/26 19:20:00


Post by: AtoMaki


 Daedalus81 wrote:

Clearly the plate would not fit on the provided sprues

It kinda would if the double battle cannons didn't have their own gun shield for some reason and the silly standing-behind-the-turret gunner didn't exist. Then the front and the rear plate could be longer just enough to touch in the middle, with the sponsons from that sprue going to the place of the gun shield and the gunner on the other sprue.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/26 19:23:54


Post by: EviscerationPlague


 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Lord Damocles wrote:
The only possible option would be that GW gouge us for an extra sprue; so actually, our benevolent corporate overlords are doing us a favour by leaving a big hole in our £55 plastic tank.


Let's pretend we're running the business for the moment.

Clearly the plate would not fit on the provided sprues so our options are as follows:

You forgot the correct option, which is: not approve the design that had a big hole in the bottom


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/26 19:25:26


Post by: VladimirHerzog


 AtoMaki wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:

Clearly the plate would not fit on the provided sprues

It kinda would if the double battle cannons didn't have their own gun shield for some reason and the silly standing-behind-the-turret gunner didn't exist. Then the front and the rear plate could be longer just enough to touch in the middle, with the sponsons from that sprue going to the place of the gun shield and the gunner on the other sprue.


the gunner is actually historically a thing.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/26 19:28:31


Post by: Dudeface


EviscerationPlague wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Lord Damocles wrote:
The only possible option would be that GW gouge us for an extra sprue; so actually, our benevolent corporate overlords are doing us a favour by leaving a big hole in our £55 plastic tank.


Let's pretend we're running the business for the moment.

Clearly the plate would not fit on the provided sprues so our options are as follows:

You forgot the correct option, which is: not approve the design that had a big hole in the bottom


You're right, they go back to "put a base plate in then" and straight back into Daeds example.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/26 19:30:58


Post by: AtoMaki


 VladimirHerzog wrote:
 AtoMaki wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:

Clearly the plate would not fit on the provided sprues

It kinda would if the double battle cannons didn't have their own gun shield for some reason and the silly standing-behind-the-turret gunner didn't exist. Then the front and the rear plate could be longer just enough to touch in the middle, with the sponsons from that sprue going to the place of the gun shield and the gunner on the other sprue.

the gunner is actually historically a thing.

I know, and it is historically a silly idea too.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/26 19:51:47


Post by: Dysartes


 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Lord Damocles wrote:
The only possible option would be that GW gouge us for an extra sprue; so actually, our benevolent corporate overlords are doing us a favour by leaving a big hole in our £55 plastic tank.


Let's pretend we're running the business for the moment.

Clearly the plate would not fit on the provided sprues so our options are as follows:

- An extra sprue. It certainly would not fill the sprue so either you have a fourth mold for a single piece or you find a way to get designers to add more stuff. You now have more cost to pass on.
- An extra sprue with 4 or 5 of them, clip them, and put one in each box. In that scenario you have a high risk for losing quality control. You now have more cost to pass on.
- A resin piece that makes assembly more difficult and has the same quality control issue as above. You now have more cost to pass on and a higher number of complaints from customers totally confused as to why their plastic glue doesn't work.

Or

- Leave a hole in the bottom. Let the internet spaz out and wait for them to move on to the next outrage.

Or...

- Move all the decorative gubbins into its own sprue. Use the remaining space to put the hull plate on the Dorn sprues, after re-running the algorithm that places parts. Potentially add a third main weapon option if sufficient space is then available. Include the new gubbins sprue in the Russ/Dorn/Baneblade boxes as part of this release, possibly/probably increasing their costs by £5. Watch as people are probably pleasantly surprised.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/26 23:17:03


Post by: Aecus Decimus


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Please, please stop claiming this is an “incomplete” model.


It's absolutely incomplete. A tank at this price point is not expected to have missing pieces. I don't care if it's a deliberate decision to sell an incomplete kit it's still incomplete.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Skinnereal wrote:
I haven't seen the sprue, nor the number of bitz options on it, but I'd take having a Dornhole over fewer bitz. Or the £5 more they'd charge for the extra half-sprue of Dornhole plate.


That's a false dilemma. The LR Proteus has more sprues than the Dorn at a cheaper cost. GW absolutely could have sold the kit at its current price with the missing floor plate and some extra weapon options to fill the rest of the sprue.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/26 23:26:29


Post by: Lord Damocles


 VladimirHerzog wrote:
 AtoMaki wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:

Clearly the plate would not fit on the provided sprues

It kinda would if the double battle cannons didn't have their own gun shield for some reason and the silly standing-behind-the-turret gunner didn't exist. Then the front and the rear plate could be longer just enough to touch in the middle, with the sponsons from that sprue going to the place of the gun shield and the gunner on the other sprue.


the gunner is actually historically a thing.

Doesn't mean that he has to be there.

Mount the pintle weapon on the cupola like every other tank. The gun shield and pointy vision port are in his way anyway.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 00:00:01


Post by: xttz


Aecus Decimus wrote:
 Skinnereal wrote:
I haven't seen the sprue, nor the number of bitz options on it, but I'd take having a Dornhole over fewer bitz. Or the £5 more they'd charge for the extra half-sprue of Dornhole plate.


That's a false dilemma. The LR Proteus has more sprues than the Dorn at a cheaper cost. GW absolutely could have sold the kit at its current price with the missing floor plate and some extra weapon options to fill the rest of the sprue.


The real world calculations behind this were clearly laid out in the last thread and you definitely read the post, but still insist on repeating this deeply flawed argument?

Nice to see that I called it correctly when I predicted you wouldn't acknowledge or discuss in good faith though.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 00:22:13


Post by: EviscerationPlague


Follow the rules.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 00:59:51


Post by: Canadian 5th


GW ships incomplete rules, why should incomplete models come as a surprise?


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 01:14:22


Post by: Aecus Decimus


 xttz wrote:
The real world calculations behind this were clearly laid out in the last thread and you definitely read the post, but still insist on repeating this deeply flawed argument?

Nice to see that I called it correctly when I predicted you wouldn't acknowledge or discuss in good faith though.


The reasons why your "real world calculations" are wrong were clearly laid out in the last thread and you definitely read the post, but still insist on repeating this deeply flawed argument?

Nice to see that I called it correctly when I predicted you wouldn't acknowledge or discuss in good faith though.



Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 01:40:12


Post by: Commissar von Toussaint


 Canadian 5th wrote:
GW ships incomplete rules, why should incomplete models come as a surprise?


LOL.

Well played.

I can't understand why people buy GW tank kits. Standard commercial models cost 1/3 as much with working running gear and rubber tracks. Yeah, takes some conversion skill, but that's part of the fun.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 01:41:34


Post by: Daedalus81


EviscerationPlague wrote:
You forgot the correct option, which is: not approve the design that had a big hole in the bottom


Maybe? They could also toss in a sprue for free, but no business is going to do that and it'd be kind of wasteful.

Anyway, it is what it is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
I can't understand why people buy GW tank kits. Standard commercial models cost 1/3 as much with working running gear and rubber tracks. Yeah, takes some conversion skill, but that's part of the fun.


I think by and large most GW customers aren't very skilled at that stuff - myself included. I saw a guy spend like $500 making a nurgle knight, which was a mash up of an AoS giant, a knight, a bloat drone, and some other stuff. Totally amazing and totally out of my reach.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 02:10:02


Post by: Aecus Decimus


Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
I can't understand why people buy GW tank kits. Standard commercial models cost 1/3 as much with working running gear and rubber tracks. Yeah, takes some conversion skill, but that's part of the fun.


Probably because those kits don't fit the aesthetics of 40k, and by the time you've converted them to look like a 40k model you've spent so much time and effort that you've effectively built an entire new model from scratch. You might as well buy the 40k kit and convert it to fix the flaws, or buy one of the third-party alternative 40k models.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 02:26:36


Post by: Commissar von Toussaint


Aecus Decimus wrote:


Probably because those kits don't fit the aesthetics of 40k, and by the time you've converted them to look like a 40k model you've spent so much time and effort that you've effectively built an entire new model from scratch. You might as well buy the 40k kit and convert it to fix the flaws, or buy one of the third-party alternative 40k models.


Right, but I enjoy the conversion. Once upon a time, kit-bashing was an essential part of the 40k hobby. For me, it still is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I should add, that all the kits come complete. It's hard to argue GW has a qualitative edge when they're selling bottomless tank kits.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 02:36:56


Post by: Aecus Decimus


Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
Right, but I enjoy the conversion. Once upon a time, kit-bashing was an essential part of the 40k hobby. For me, it still is.


Ok, sure, but what you said was:

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
I can't understand why people buy GW tank kits.


The answer is that most people want to buy something that can be used straight out of the box and are not interested in scratchbuilding an entire new thing. You personally may enjoy that scratchbuilding but that doesn't change the reasons other people have for wanting to buy a complete kit, and for being unhappy with GW for selling an incomplete one.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 03:54:44


Post by: ccs


 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Lord Damocles wrote:
The only possible option would be that GW gouge us for an extra sprue; so actually, our benevolent corporate overlords are doing us a favour by leaving a big hole in our £55 plastic tank.


Let's pretend we're running the business for the moment.

Clearly the plate would not fit on the provided sprues so our options are as follows:

- An extra sprue. It certainly would not fill the sprue so either you have a fourth mold for a single piece or you find a way to get designers to add more stuff. You now have more cost to pass on.
- An extra sprue with 4 or 5 of them, clip them, and put one in each box. In that scenario you have a high risk for losing quality control. You now have more cost to pass on.
- A resin piece that makes assembly more difficult and has the same quality control issue as above. You now have more cost to pass on and a higher number of complaints from customers totally confused as to why their plastic glue doesn't work.

Or

- Leave a hole in the bottom. Let the internet spaz out and wait for them to move on to the next outrage.



Well, seeing as I'm running the same company that makes extra unnecessary spue for things like Cadian heads for a kit they know damned well is going to get replaced & then charges you more for the "upgraded" kit, I don't think I'd give a 2nd thought to making a 2nd small sprue for a kit thatll be made for decades to come & just passing the cost on to the customer.



Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 12:13:26


Post by: Sim-Life


Remember back in the day when they were able to manufacture the transparent green bits for necrons and no one thought it was a big deal. Remember the three bits they made unique to the monolith? The doorway, the crystal and the little circle at the back that was just there as a fun detail. Literally no other kit used them. And people are saying it would be too much of effort for them to make a flat, square bit of plastic? GW fanboys be crazy.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 12:52:29


Post by: Dudeface


 Sim-Life wrote:
Remember back in the day when they were able to manufacture the transparent green bits for necrons and no one thought it was a big deal. Remember the three bits they made unique to the monolith? The doorway, the crystal and the little circle at the back that was just there as a fun detail. Literally no other kit used them. And people are saying it would be too much of effort for them to make a flat, square bit of plastic? GW fanboys be crazy.


They're not saying it'd be too much effort, they're saying it's not worth the monetary investment another sprue would require to produce for the sakes of a gap on a model you'll nearly never see.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 12:55:25


Post by: leopard


you can't have a tank with a hole because if you had a hole the deodorant would have leaked from the bottle the tank is made out of

right?


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 12:57:58


Post by: Tsagualsa


leopard wrote:
you can't have a tank with a hole because if you had a hole the deodorant would have leaked from the bottle the tank is made out of

right?


The hole is obviously there so that you can link the dorn to your other awesome Zoids™ toys to make an even bigger robot!


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 13:48:55


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Has anyone tried fitting the new Sentinel into their Dorn Hole?

Maybe it's all part of the plan?


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 13:51:58


Post by: AtoMaki


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Has anyone tried fitting the new Sentinel into their Dorn Hole?

This was literally the first idea my clubmates had, but the Sentinel doesn't fit inside the hole.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 13:53:56


Post by: Tsagualsa


 AtoMaki wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Has anyone tried fitting the new Sentinel into their Dorn Hole?

This was literally the first idea my clubmates had, but the Sentinel doesn't fit inside the hole.


Obviously you need Citadel® Finelube™ - 50ml for 6.99$, in a convenient applicator bottle. Ignore any bubbles and holes that may appear on your... models.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 14:12:24


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


 AtoMaki wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Has anyone tried fitting the new Sentinel into their Dorn Hole?

This was literally the first idea my clubmates had, but the Sentinel doesn't fit inside the hole.


So you're saying the Dorn Hole is too small?


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 14:29:52


Post by: AtoMaki


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
 AtoMaki wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Has anyone tried fitting the new Sentinel into their Dorn Hole?

This was literally the first idea my clubmates had, but the Sentinel doesn't fit inside the hole.

So you're saying the Dorn Hole is too small?

Dunno about that one, I haven't been there, but from what I've heard you can't shove the new Sentinel up into the Dorn Hole.

Before you ask, yes, they could put an old Sentinel inside the Dorn.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 14:41:03


Post by: A Town Called Malus


So the Dorn only goes for mature sentinels?


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 14:50:03


Post by: lord_blackfang


Is the surface you need to paint smaller or do you now have to paint all of the inside


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 17:08:05


Post by: ccs


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Is the surface you need to paint smaller or do you now have to paint all of the inside


If you make a cover for it to avoid painting the inside are you modeling for advantage?


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 17:35:42


Post by: Racerguy180


The transition to JUST a gaming piece is now complete.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 17:42:17


Post by: Dudeface


Racerguy180 wrote:
The transition to JUST a gaming piece is now complete.


It still looks good, it can still be painted and displayed, not sure that's a valid statement. I'd argue if you're using it primarily as a game piece it's as complete as it needs to be, if it's a display piece, it depends if you display it with the bottom visible. Either way it takes some real manipulation for it to be an issue.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 19:26:37


Post by: Racerguy180


If the exterior does not resemble a tank(all have a bottom), it ceases to be a miniature representing a "real world" vehicle & is wholly just a gaming token.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 19:29:23


Post by: Dudeface


Racerguy180 wrote:
If the exterior does not resemble a tank(all have a bottom), it ceases to be a miniature representing a "real world" vehicle & is wholly just a gaming token.


I see, are you therefore suggesting that all your "complete" miniatures are representing real world things like daemons and hover tanks? Which in turn are actually not purely game pieces?


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 19:36:05


Post by: Aecus Decimus


Dudeface wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
If the exterior does not resemble a tank(all have a bottom), it ceases to be a miniature representing a "real world" vehicle & is wholly just a gaming token.


I see, are you therefore suggesting that all your "complete" miniatures are representing real world things like daemons and hover tanks? Which in turn are actually not purely game pieces?


...

You do understand that "real world" refers to a unit in the "real" 40k universe, right? The Dorn doesn't have a missing floor plate because the "real" Dorn is like that, it has one because GW decided to sell an incomplete kit at a premium price.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 19:43:39


Post by: LunarSol


There was definitely a time where this would have really bugged me, but these days I'm tempted to only paint the half of my models I physically see so obviously my standards have dropped.

I do want to see someone glue a unit of Cadians underneath carrying the thing like some kind of cardboard parade float.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 19:49:32


Post by: Racerguy180


Dudeface wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
If the exterior does not resemble a tank(all have a bottom), it ceases to be a miniature representing a "real world" vehicle & is wholly just a gaming token.


I see, are you therefore suggesting that all your "complete" miniatures are representing real world things like daemons and hover tanks? Which in turn are actually not purely game pieces?


No, every other tank i own has one(even floaty Primaris ones) why not this one?

I'd expect them to represent how they look in universe. By your logic the Rogal Dorn has a design choice that leads it to have a very large hole on the underside...to better dissipate a landmine blast? Or it's actually like the inflatable tanks they used to fool the Nazi's before d-day?

If I wanted purely gaming pieces I'd just use paper chits.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 19:51:41


Post by: Dudeface


Aecus Decimus wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
If the exterior does not resemble a tank(all have a bottom), it ceases to be a miniature representing a "real world" vehicle & is wholly just a gaming token.


I see, are you therefore suggesting that all your "complete" miniatures are representing real world things like daemons and hover tanks? Which in turn are actually not purely game pieces?


...

You do understand that "real world" refers to a unit in the "real" 40k universe, right? The Dorn doesn't have a missing floor plate because the "real" Dorn is like that, it has one because GW decided to sell an incomplete kit at a premium price.


How do you know? Have you ever seen a real in universe dorn to verify? Is there any artwork with the bottom visible? Are there written accounts of a baseplate existing?

You assume these things, because they conform to your definition of normality and logic.

Yes I am being awkward. But honestly the entire situation is utterly unreal that so many people are upset they won't have a square of plastic under the tank that'll nearly never been seen and because they can't prime/basecoat it on the assumption they get as far as building it or buying it in the first place.

How many people in here complaining actually own a dorn? How many were legitimately going to buy one otherwise? How many of you are just here to whinge about something trivial for the sakes of boredom?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Racerguy180 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
If the exterior does not resemble a tank(all have a bottom), it ceases to be a miniature representing a "real world" vehicle & is wholly just a gaming token.


I see, are you therefore suggesting that all your "complete" miniatures are representing real world things like daemons and hover tanks? Which in turn are actually not purely game pieces?


No, every other tank i own has one(even floaty Primaris ones) why not this one?

I'd expect them to represent how they look in universe. By your logic the Rogal Dorn has a design choice that leads it to have a very large hole on the underside...to better dissipate a landmine blast? Or it's actually like the inflatable tanks they used to fool the Nazi's before d-day?

If I wanted purely gaming pieces I'd just use paper chits.


OK, if you want actual tanks on your tabletop, may I recommend actual tanks? Or better yet, if you insist on anatomical accuracy for fictional items you can't verify, please try a historical game where it can be verified.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 20:02:29


Post by: AtoMaki


Dudeface wrote:
Yes I am being awkward.

No, you are being reasonable. As far as I'm concerned, the Dorn doesn't have a bottom plate in-universe either, the internals are just hanging over a big hole because it is more cost-efficient to make the tank that way or something. I hope Karak Dorn Clansman writes about it in his Descendant Degeneration thread, it really deserves a story there.
Dudeface wrote:
if you insist on anatomical accuracy for fictional items you can't verify, please try a historical game where it can be verified

The moment 40k has fully verified and realistically accurate anatomy for its tanks will be the moment I know GW secretly offed their writing team and is now using AIs to create lore.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 20:17:25


Post by: Unit1126PLL


Tbh, I don't think it's a big deal, but it's just sort of silly.

It's not that I'm personally offended that the Dorn has a gigantic hole in the bottom. It's that you can really read into GW's mindset with it.

The reasons the Dorn doesn't have a plate to cover up that part of the hull could be (not in any particular order):

1) Incompetence (the designer who sculpted it wrote "continue hull across" and the person making the mold or whatever didn't bother to check)
2) Finance ("we have to fit in a whole sprue just for one bit? just delete the bit, it's on the bottom anyways.")
3) Designer carelessness ("we sculpted the Dorn without a bottom plate in order to represent how well I don't give a feth")
4) Laziness ("finished? yeah, sure. It looks fine on the tabletop, check the box boys, job well done.").

I can't think of any other reason it'd've been done, and none of those are things to be extremely proud of when saying you're a professional model company.

"What do you do?"
"Build high-quality models."
"OOh, sounds awesome, what do you prioritize most when really going to town?"
"Cheapness."
"Isn't that the antonym of quality?"
"Shut up it looks fine."


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 20:26:10


Post by: Aecus Decimus


Dudeface wrote:
How do you know? Have you ever seen a real in universe dorn to verify? Is there any artwork with the bottom visible? Are there written accounts of a baseplate existing?


If that's the best argument you have I think I can safely accept your concession of defeat and we can move on.

How many people in here complaining actually own a dorn? How many were legitimately going to buy one otherwise?


I was considering buying one, but now that I've seen what GW considers appropriate for a "premium" product sold at a premium price I'll pass. LRBTs work just fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I can't think of any other reason it'd've been done, and none of those are things to be extremely proud of when saying you're a professional model company.


To be fair, option 2 would be a reason for pride if you're a cheap model company. If you're making those $3 snap together model planes and tanks you see at walmart then saving a few cents per kit is absolutely something to be proud of. If the Dorn cost $5 I'd be fine with it having missing pieces to bring down the price because it would still work fine as a $5 gaming piece. It's only because GW insists on charging premium prices that making a sub-premium product to save money is an issue.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 21:09:29


Post by: Commissar von Toussaint


Racerguy180 wrote:


No, every other tank i own has one(even floaty Primaris ones) why not this one?

I'd expect them to represent how they look in universe. By your logic the Rogal Dorn has a design choice that leads it to have a very large hole on the underside...to better dissipate a landmine blast? Or it's actually like the inflatable tanks they used to fool the Nazi's before d-day?


What if the Dorn is actually scrupulously accurate? The tank does have a removable bottom plate for the crew to bail out under fire.

And the infantry simply stole them all for use as foxhole covers. (This actually has happened.)

Over time, it was decided to just save time and effort and issue the plate to the infantry and use a mesh screen to keep people from falling out.

Then the infantry started taking the screens for cooking grates...



Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 21:12:09


Post by: Dudeface


Aecus Decimus wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
How do you know? Have you ever seen a real in universe dorn to verify? Is there any artwork with the bottom visible? Are there written accounts of a baseplate existing?


If that's the best argument you have I think I can safely accept your concession of defeat and we can move on.


You'd be wrong captain sassy pants.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 21:13:45


Post by: Unit1126PLL


Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:


No, every other tank i own has one(even floaty Primaris ones) why not this one?

I'd expect them to represent how they look in universe. By your logic the Rogal Dorn has a design choice that leads it to have a very large hole on the underside...to better dissipate a landmine blast? Or it's actually like the inflatable tanks they used to fool the Nazi's before d-day?


What if the Dorn is actually scrupulously accurate - the tank does have a removable bottom plate for the crew to get out.

And the infantry simply stole them all for use as foxhole covers.



This is why the Imperium is 40,000 years more advanced than modern humanity. We here in M2 are still putting solid floors on our tanks, perhaps only punctuated by access hatches. In the Imperium, you just leave off the whole floor, flintstones style.

Maybe this design choice is a statement about life in the Imperium - like how space battleship macrocannons are loaded by teams of 20,000 slaves or whatever, maybe the Rogal Dorn's engine is really just like, 6 ogryn and some candy bars on sticks.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 21:16:19


Post by: Commissar von Toussaint


 Unit1126PLL wrote:


This is why the Imperium is 40,000 years more advanced than modern humanity. We here in M2 are still putting solid floors on our tanks, perhaps only punctuated by access hatches. In the Imperium, you just leave off the whole floor, flintstones style.

Maybe this design choice is a statement about life in the Imperium - like how space battleship macrocannons are loaded by teams of 20,000 slaves or whatever, maybe the Rogal Dorn's engine is really just like, 6 ogryn and some candy bars on sticks.


They sling it over a dreadnought wearing a pair of steel-belted suspenders and it waddles about with it.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 21:17:49


Post by: Unit1126PLL


Dudeface wrote:
Aecus Decimus wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
How do you know? Have you ever seen a real in universe dorn to verify? Is there any artwork with the bottom visible? Are there written accounts of a baseplate existing?


If that's the best argument you have I think I can safely accept your concession of defeat and we can move on.


You'd be wrong captain sassy pants.


I don't think it's wrong to say "the Rogal Dorn's design is dumb, whether it is deliberate because the tank is this way in universe (HA, like anyone believes that) or it is deliberate because GW is lazy/incompetent/cheap/careless"

So if your argument is "maybe it was done like that because it's that way in universe! Have you seen any EVIDENCE? HMM?" it comes off a bit trollish (even if that wasn't your intent).


Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:


This is why the Imperium is 40,000 years more advanced than modern humanity. We here in M2 are still putting solid floors on our tanks, perhaps only punctuated by access hatches. In the Imperium, you just leave off the whole floor, flintstones style.

Maybe this design choice is a statement about life in the Imperium - like how space battleship macrocannons are loaded by teams of 20,000 slaves or whatever, maybe the Rogal Dorn's engine is really just like, 6 ogryn and some candy bars on sticks.


They sling it over a dreadnought wearing a pair of steel-belted suspenders and it waddles about with it.


Even in the Imperial Guard, you're playing Space Marines. With hats.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 21:29:36


Post by: Commissar von Toussaint


 Unit1126PLL wrote:


Even in the Imperial Guard, you're playing Space Marines. With hats.


Ok, specially a Sentinel without a main gun. Or maybe the tank is the main gun. He just walks around and then sets it on the ground to turn the turret.

All the sponsons are manned by ratlings.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 21:36:29


Post by: xttz


Dudeface wrote:
But honestly the entire situation is utterly unreal that so many people are upset they won't have a square of plastic under the tank that'll nearly never been seen and because they can't prime/basecoat it on the assumption they get as far as building it or buying it in the first place.

How many people in here complaining actually own a dorn? How many were legitimately going to buy one otherwise? How many of you are just here to whinge about something trivial for the sakes of boredom?


The giveaway here is how many other similar cases of GW models over the decades have had detail 'missing' in places where no one would normally look, especially underneath.

However it only becomes a 'problem' when a reviewer mentions it to a bunch of people who wouldn't normally buy the model to see it.

Aecus Decimus wrote:
 xttz wrote:
The real world calculations behind this were clearly laid out in the last thread and you definitely read the post, but still insist on repeating this deeply flawed argument?

Nice to see that I called it correctly when I predicted you wouldn't acknowledge or discuss in good faith though.


The reasons why your "real world calculations" are wrong were clearly laid out in the last thread and you definitely read the post, but still insist on repeating this deeply flawed argument?

Nice to see that I called it correctly when I predicted you wouldn't acknowledge or discuss in good faith though.

My five-year-old repeats stuff back like that too. Cute.

But oh dear, what's this?
Aecus Decimus wrote:

It's simple. The Cerberus can be made with a token upgrade sprue for the Spartan they already have...

Now, is it a good sign for the long-term health of the game that GW is making production decisions based on aggressive cost reduction...

So you say that I'm wrong in this thread but agree that I'm right in the other thread. Reading your posts is like those cartoons where the character just can't stop stepping on rakes.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 21:41:33


Post by: Aecus Decimus


Dudeface wrote:
You'd be wrong captain sassy pants.


No, I'm pretty sure that "BUT WHAT IF THE REAL TANK HAS A HOLE IN IT TOO YOU DONT KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE" is the last resort of someone who has lost the argument and just won't admit defeat.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 21:41:44


Post by: Daedalus81


Racerguy180 wrote:

No, every other tank i own has one(even floaty Primaris ones) why not this one?

I'd expect them to represent how they look in universe. By your logic the Rogal Dorn has a design choice that leads it to have a very large hole on the underside...to better dissipate a landmine blast? Or it's actually like the inflatable tanks they used to fool the Nazi's before d-day?

If I wanted purely gaming pieces I'd just use paper chits.


I mean do you randomly turn your tanks over to admire them? "Yep. That there is a bottom! I am confident this tank would survive a land mine if it were real."

Your concern is perfectly valid and certainly GW made a misstep. I'm just confounded by the expenditure of energy over what I feel is something that is so trivial ( to me ). In the end your best action is to just vote with your wallet.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 21:42:03


Post by: Commissar von Toussaint


 xttz wrote:
The giveaway here is how many other similar cases of GW models over the decades have had detail 'missing' in places where no one would normally look, especially underneath.

However it only becomes a 'problem' when a reviewer mentions it to a bunch of people who wouldn't normally buy the model to see it.


I don't know, even the first-gen Rhinos came with hatches to cover up the underside. If anything, those kits were a bonanza of spare parts and bitz. Only now, after 20 years of kit-bashing, am I starting to run low on that stuff. Need I mention how cheap they were?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 xttz wrote:
So you say that I'm wrong in this thread but agree that I'm right in the other thread. Reading your posts is like those cartoons where the character just can't stop stepping on rakes.


It's a recurring theme with him.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 21:44:59


Post by: Aecus Decimus


 xttz wrote:
So you say that I'm wrong in this thread but agree that I'm right in the other thread.


No, you're either not paying attention to what I actually said or dishonestly misquoting me because you know you can't win an honest argument. I never disputed that sharing sprues allows cost reduction, the reason your supposed "real world calculations" are wrong is your assumption that the Proteus will sell an order of magnitude more kits than the Dorn despite being a kit for a secondary game that was dead at the time GW committed to making it.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 21:45:25


Post by: Unit1126PLL


ITT:

"Yes, cheapness is certainly a motivation, but that doesn't jive with 'high-quality model company' or their prices"

"WELL IT LOOKS FINE IF YOU DON'T TURN IT OVER, LUL. I KNOW YOUR CRITIQUE DEFINITELY WAS ABOUT HOW IT LOOKS SO I AM CLEVER."


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 21:51:27


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


 AtoMaki wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Yes I am being awkward.

No, you are being reasonable. As far as I'm concerned, the Dorn doesn't have a bottom plate in-universe either, the internals are just hanging over a big hole because it is more cost-efficient to make the tank that way or something. I hope Karak Dorn Clansman writes about it in his Descendant Degeneration thread, it really deserves a story there.


Well I'm not Karak but I hope this tides you over


With a crash the mighty Rogal Dorn 356 medium battle tank smashed through the rebels' barbed wire and broke through their lines. Heavy stubber fire drove the cowards before them like rats.
"Emperor's Gondads!" Sgt Smitty ejaculated loudly "It's a good thing the Imperial Guard has, and has always had, the mighty Rogal Dorn medium battle tank!" he correctly said, for in fact the Imperial Guard had always had the Rogal Dorn medium battle tank, even if no one ever mentioned it before it was still there just out of the frame.
Smitty clanged on the side of the turret with the hilt of his sword.
"Hendrick, take out that bunker!"
The Rogal Dorn medium battle tank's oppressor cannon roared and the bunker vanished in tremendous explosion. Sgt Smitty laughed, at this rate there'd be no one left for his to hit with his sword once they reached the enemy's main force.
"Reload Hendrick and target that artillery bank!"
"Sorry sarge, I cann't!"
"What?" Smitty ejaculated loudly.
"The shells sir, they done fell out the gaping hole at the bottom of the tank!"
Smitty looked down at the gaping hole in the hull of the tank the Emperor had placed there to save millions of Space Dollars and sighed.
"Turn her around Hendrick, guess we have to go back to base."
And with that the mighty Rogal Dorn Medium Battle Tank, available in a store near you just $95 ($278 Australian), turned back to base for the third time that day.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 21:59:24


Post by: xttz


Aecus Decimus wrote:
 xttz wrote:
So you say that I'm wrong in this thread but agree that I'm right in the other thread.


No, you're either not paying attention to what I actually said or dishonestly misquoting me because you know you can't win an honest argument. I never disputed that sharing sprues allows cost reduction, the reason your supposed "real world calculations" are wrong is your assumption that the Proteus will sell an order of magnitude more kits than the Dorn despite being a kit for a secondary game that was dead at the time GW committed to making it.


I'll admit it is hard to keep up with how many posts you've been wrong in. Oddly you stopped posting in the "dead secondary game" Heresy thread when the other folks started telling you how wrong you are, especially about the weird repeat dissing of Alan Bligh.

Rakes. Just rakes, everywhere.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 22:06:11


Post by: A Town Called Malus


 xttz wrote:

The giveaway here is how many other similar cases of GW models over the decades have had detail 'missing' in places where no one would normally look, especially underneath.


I mean, my Hammerheads don't have missing detail on the bottom. I don't really see why you would ever do that when you are designing models with computer technology and so it is just as easy to detail to bottom by putting some lines, rivet nubs etc. as it is to do it to the top or sides.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 22:09:28


Post by: Dudeface


Aecus Decimus wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
You'd be wrong captain sassy pants.


No, I'm pretty sure that "BUT WHAT IF THE REAL TANK HAS A HOLE IN IT TOO YOU DONT KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE" is the last resort of someone who has lost the argument and just won't admit defeat.


No, complaining a model kit is only good as a game token like a poker chip because it doesn't match it's "real world" counter part is crazy. There isn't any fluff as to whether it does or does not have a bottom plate. The tank isn't real, other vehicles are "incomplete" lots of them have no interior, lots have doors that don't open like their "real world" counterpart, most of them don't have interior crews. This tank is no more or less "true to it's real life self" as the 10 ft long rhinos who are too small by design, the monsters with no buttholes, the physiology of terminators impossibly posture. There's a billion and one abstractions in this game like 360 no scope tanks in game, the fact that a 5ft 5 guardsman is 80% or more of the height of a 9-10ft armoured transhuman.

But no the goddamn plate on the bottom of the tank you won't fething see is the point you draw the line.

Unit1126PLL wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Aecus Decimus wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
How do you know? Have you ever seen a real in universe dorn to verify? Is there any artwork with the bottom visible? Are there written accounts of a baseplate existing?


If that's the best argument you have I think I can safely accept your concession of defeat and we can move on.


You'd be wrong captain sassy pants.


I don't think it's wrong to say "the Rogal Dorn's design is dumb, whether it is deliberate because the tank is this way in universe (HA, like anyone believes that) or it is deliberate because GW is lazy/incompetent/cheap/careless"

So if your argument is "maybe it was done like that because it's that way in universe! Have you seen any EVIDENCE? HMM?" it comes off a bit trollish (even if that wasn't your intent).


See above, telling someone that kit is as valuable or useful as poker chip because it's not true to it's real life fictional self is the trollworthy posture I was responding to. If that's the biggest problem here, show me it's supposed to have a bottom plate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 xttz wrote:

The giveaway here is how many other similar cases of GW models over the decades have had detail 'missing' in places where no one would normally look, especially underneath.


I mean, my Hammerheads don't have missing detail on the bottom. I don't really see why you would ever do that when you are designing models with computer technology and so it is just as easy to detail to bottom by putting some lines, rivet nubs etc. as it is to do it to the top or sides.


As noted elsehwere the investment cost for the sprue is likely the issue, a very reasonable workaround would have been to move the extra guff to an additional generic accessories sprue and then put the price up slightly to allow recoup of the mould costs.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 22:21:11


Post by: Aecus Decimus


Dudeface wrote:
There isn't any fluff as to whether it does or does not have a bottom plate.


Thank you for conceding defeat on this subject.

But no the goddamn plate on the bottom of the tank you won't fething see


People have already explained to you how you can see the hole.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 xttz wrote:
I'll admit it is hard to keep up with how many posts you've been wrong in. Oddly you stopped posting in the "dead secondary game" Heresy thread when the other folks started telling you how wrong you are, especially about the weird repeat dissing of Alan Bligh.

Rakes. Just rakes, everywhere.


WHY DIDNT U POST IN EVERY SINGLE THREAD I DEMAND THAT YOU POST IN CONSTANTLY AND HAVE NO LIFE OUTSIDE OF POSTING.

I stopped posting there because it had gone completely off topic from the point I had originally been making, about the state of Heresy 1.0 when the Spartan/Proteus/etc were designed and sent into production, and into discussion of the current state of Heresy 2.0. I don't care if Heresy 2.0 is succeeding because it has nothing to do with the original point about your invalid sales assumptions.

And who cares about Alan Bligh? Why do you feel the need to white knight for him against the fact that one of the things he made had poor sales performance and was not valued by GW?


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 22:27:15


Post by: Dudeface


Aecus Decimus wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
There isn't any fluff as to whether it does or does not have a bottom plate.


Thank you for conceding defeat on this subject.

But no the goddamn plate on the bottom of the tank you won't fething see


People have already explained to you how you can see the hole.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 xttz wrote:
I'll admit it is hard to keep up with how many posts you've been wrong in. Oddly you stopped posting in the "dead secondary game" Heresy thread when the other folks started telling you how wrong you are, especially about the weird repeat dissing of Alan Bligh.

Rakes. Just rakes, everywhere.


WHY DIDNT U POST IN EVERY SINGLE THREAD I DEMAND THAT YOU POST IN CONSTANTLY AND HAVE NO LIFE OUTSIDE OF POSTING.

I stopped posting there because it had gone completely off topic from the point I had originally been making, about the state of Heresy 1.0 when the Spartan/Proteus/etc were designed and sent into production, and into discussion of the current state of Heresy 2.0. I don't care if Heresy 2.0 is succeeding because it has nothing to do with the original point about your invalid sales assumptions.

And who cares about Alan Bligh? Why do you feel the need to white knight for him against the fact that one of the things he made had poor sales performance and was not valued by GW?


Do you ever offer anything that isn't a complaint? But I'm glad the bottomless tank was so obvious it was clear from all the codex and stock photos, it's a real issue alright. I'll sleep worse at night knowing people looking up at their ceiling mounted glass shelves can see in the tank and how it broke their hobby immersion.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 22:31:07


Post by: Aecus Decimus


Dudeface wrote:
Do you ever offer anything that isn't a complaint? But I'm glad the bottomless tank was so obvious it was clear from all the codex and stock photos, it's a real issue alright. I'll sleep worse at night knowing people looking up at their ceiling mounted glass shelves can see in the tank and how it broke their hobby immersion.


Yeah, because picking up a tank to take a closer look at it is such a rare event that only PEOPLE WITH CEILING MOUTNED CLASS SHELVES LOL will ever see it.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 22:39:37


Post by: Dudeface


Aecus Decimus wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Do you ever offer anything that isn't a complaint? But I'm glad the bottomless tank was so obvious it was clear from all the codex and stock photos, it's a real issue alright. I'll sleep worse at night knowing people looking up at their ceiling mounted glass shelves can see in the tank and how it broke their hobby immersion.


Yeah, because picking up a tank to take a closer look at it is such a rare event that only PEOPLE WITH CEILING MOUTNED CLASS SHELVES LOL will ever see it.


"Aww man, that tank looks amazing, let me turn it over" said nobody ever


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 22:43:03


Post by: Tamereth


 Vankraken wrote:
I feel like it would be one thing if it just didn't have a detailed bottom but it is just an open hole...

I remember putting together the Guard/Tempestus Taurox and wondering why GW would have all this interior modeling for a vehicle that doesn't have ports that you can open and very tiny vision slits. And yet we have a tank which has an open void under it because they didn't want to make a piece of plastic to cover it up. And frankly you see the underside of an armored vehicle model far more when playing the game than you do the interior of one unless it's open topped.


This shows a change in design philosophy at GW. I remember not glueing all the extra detail on a Taurox because I didn't want the hassle of painting it when nobody would ever really see it. With the dorn I'd have to put in a load of effort to fill a literal gapping hole in it people would see.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 22:56:47


Post by: Aecus Decimus


Dudeface wrote:
"Aww man, that tank looks amazing, let me turn it over" said nobody ever


You do realize that the hole is visible from more angles than just directly below, right?


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 22:59:46


Post by: Unit1126PLL


It's ok just put the tank on a base, problem solved.

Also if the tank parks atop a grot, is the grot within 1" of the hull? I feel like that hole is pretty wide...


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 23:07:51


Post by: Racerguy180


Dudeface wrote:
But no the goddamn plate on the bottom of the tank you won't fething see is the point you draw the line.



Funny thing is if I bought & built it as a gift to my nephew, you know the first thing they'd say(after thanking me)....I'll give you one guess as to what they'd say.


"Why is there no bottom?
They're 9

Nuff said


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/27 23:31:55


Post by: Commissar von Toussaint


Dudeface wrote:


"Aww man, that tank looks amazing, let me turn it over" said nobody ever


If you pick it up, you might well drop it because you expect there to be a hull underneath it as you examine it. No, you're not scanning the underside, but based on how people generally handle tank models, they'll stick a thumb under it expecting there to be something there as they examine the sponsons and other details.

I happen to have a cast 25mm Panther (which is hollow) and I have to caution people about it or they will drop it. Happened more than once.

Given that all other GW tank models have a hull bottom, I'd say a mishap is even more likely.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/28 02:53:42


Post by: Insectum7


 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:

Are you saying GW shouldn't have shipped a complete model? Or are you just saying people just shouldn't criticize GW?


Neither! I see a lot of what seems to be considerably angry people ( given the language ) who will likely still buy models from them.

Oh?

I can only speak for myself, but my GW spending has massively slowed down because of their practices. Selling incomplete models at premium prices isn't helping them.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/28 04:47:16


Post by: Racerguy180


Yeah, I was gonna grab 3 for my traitor guard but now I'll just 3d print them instead. I love assembling plastic vehicles but if the kits gonna be incomplete, I'd rather just print the whole thing and drop $ on a complete kit, like literally every other guard/marine tank. I generally only use my printer to enhance but with the Dorn, I'll gladly make the exception.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/28 05:01:12


Post by: Breton


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Since discussion of the Rogal Dorn hull plate (or lack thereof) is threatening to take over the Imperial Guard news thread I am moving discussion here.

This would be the place for discussion whether or not we need to cover our Dorn Holes, how best to close a Dorn Hole, humorous takes, rending of garments and/or setting armies on fire.

Spoiler:


Note that there is now an STL for the missing plate, for people who own a 3d printer and for some reason want to fill their Dorn Hole but not print an entire tank.

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/dorn-tank-power-bottom-filler


I'd have to know more about the unit and its options. Assuming there are some magnetization options there, I'd probably magnetize the interior in a way I can swap it by reaching in the Dorn Hole, then magnetize a cover FOR the Dorn Hole. I'm kind of thinking about this from a Gladiator stand point, I'd like to be able to reach up the Glad Hole and swap tops using detachable magnetization, or tabs or what have you. I've seen people make Thunderhawks Magnetized so it disassembles for storage. Another place the Dorn Hole with Magnetized covers would come in handy.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/28 05:09:17


Post by: Apple fox


Racerguy180 wrote:
Yeah, I was gonna grab 3 for my traitor guard but now I'll just 3d print them instead. I love assembling plastic vehicles but if the kits gonna be incomplete, I'd rather just print the whole thing and drop $ on a complete kit, like literally every other guard/marine tank. I generally only use my printer to enhance but with the Dorn, I'll gladly make the exception.


Going to be honest, one of the look alike tanks I found to be much more pleasing. It moved those weird hull guns right at the front up so they are in a less awquard place. Turret a little longer, with the guns really looked snazzy.
Was clear what was based on, but someone take the design and really went all out.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/28 13:06:18


Post by: Vermis


"I am Dornholio...!" No wait, someone did that already.

LunarSol wrote:I do want to see someone glue a unit of Cadians underneath carrying the thing like some kind of cardboard parade float.


It's like the Flintsto...

Unit1126PLL wrote:In the Imperium, you just leave off the whole floor, flintstones style.


Oh come on.

Aecus wrote:No you!


Racerguy wrote:No you!


Aecus wrote:No you!


Racerguy wrote:No you!




What a hill to die on.

What a... hole to die on?

(Gimme a break, people nicked all the old cartoon references on me.)


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/28 13:38:24


Post by: Commissar von Toussaint


 Vermis wrote:


(Gimme a break, people nicked all the old cartoon references on me.)

What about putting a small r/c unit inside the hole and having the tank race around the board while playing Benny Hill music.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/28 13:39:56


Post by: Pyroalchi


In light of my GW-store guy every now and then just throwing in some bases for free when I'm there to buy paints and tell him I could use some more 25mm ones I wouldn't be too surprised if there was a jar of plastic cutouts fitting the whole in every GW store and they just fling one in with every Rogal Dorn.

Or they take it with some self-irony and print a cutout on the carton box it comes in to build your very own plastic/paper hybrid model


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/28 14:55:16


Post by: Apple fox


 Pyroalchi wrote:
In light of my GW-store guy every now and then just throwing in some bases for free when I'm there to buy paints and tell him I could use some more 25mm ones I wouldn't be too surprised if there was a jar of plastic cutouts fitting the whole in every GW store and they just fling one in with every Rogal Dorn.

Or they take it with some self-irony and print a cutout on the carton box it comes in to build your very own plastic/paper hybrid model


Doing plastic cutouts would probably cost more than if they just did a extra bottom for it in the kit. Since you would effectively have to cut and distribute that. Cost wise, best they ignore it now.
Players life or don’t with it, but next time. Maybe they would design it with a bottom.

Or the backlash to the new marine kit drown it out completely and no one at GW notice at all.
I do wish I had a GW store with bases, never enough bases. Even EBay doesn’t have enough :(


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/28 15:05:19


Post by: Commissar von Toussaint


 Pyroalchi wrote:
Or they take it with some self-irony and print a cutout on the carton box it comes in to build your very own plastic/paper hybrid model


For a moment, I read that as having GW put a picture of the hatch on a milk carton, as if it was a missing person.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/28 15:09:26


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


I wouldn't be surprised if GW just did a pragmatic thing and the final design process went like this:

"Bob, in the current rules, Tanks can't drive up Walls anymore like they could, right?"
"Yes, Joe, we did away with that 5 years ago."
"Okay, and when they blow up, you don’t have to mark them destroyed, by, like, turning them upside down, right? "
"That's right, Joe. You just take them off the table."
"Well, Bob. You know, that Rogal Dorn sprue is already filled with all these guns and there's an idea I wanted to suggest to you..."


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/28 19:39:51


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


 Pyroalchi wrote:
In light of my GW-store guy every now and then just throwing in some bases for free when I'm there to buy paints and tell him I could use some more 25mm ones I wouldn't be too surprised if there was a jar of plastic cutouts fitting the whole in every GW store and they just fling one in with every Rogal Dorn.

Or they take it with some self-irony and print a cutout on the carton box it comes in to build your very own plastic/paper hybrid model


Full page article in WD with a template you can cut out and samples of Dorn Hole Covers from the 'eavy Metal team.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/28 22:27:46


Post by: flamingkillamajig


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Since discussion of the Rogal Dorn hull plate (or lack thereof) is threatening to take over the Imperial Guard news thread I am moving discussion here.

This would be the place for discussion whether or not we need to cover our Dorn Holes, how best to close a Dorn Hole, humorous takes, rending of garments and/or setting armies on fire.

Spoiler:


Note that there is now an STL for the missing plate, for people who own a 3d printer and for some reason want to fill their Dorn Hole but not print an entire tank.

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/dorn-tank-power-bottom-filler


I've said it before. Take a piece of parchment (actually just a sticky note) and write "Censored! by Inquisitorial Edict" and put it on the missing base plate. That or put truck nuts on the tank.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/29 01:02:54


Post by: Commissar von Toussaint


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Full page article in WD with a template you can cut out and samples of Dorn Hole Covers from the 'eavy Metal team.


That month's battle report highlights the importance of having a Dorn Hole Cover on your vehicle - crucial to the owning player winning.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/29 06:28:56


Post by: tneva82


So. Some people complain, smart people think.

[Thumb - 326998935_877110730222448_7600382164577292751_n.jpg]


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/29 06:45:31


Post by: Insectum7


You know what's great? I do the same thing with my Rhinos except there's a friggin door plate to close the giant gaping hole back up.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/29 10:25:00


Post by: kodos


tneva82 wrote:
So. Some people complain, smart people think.
and don't buy overpriced display models for gaming?


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/29 10:38:48


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


tneva82 wrote:
So. Some people complain, smart people think.



How many times did my mom tell me, "Son, when life gives you Dorn Holes, you make magnetized weapon racks".

Well done!


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/29 12:56:38


Post by: Commissar von Toussaint


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
How many times did my mom tell me, "Son, when life gives you Dorn Holes, you make magnetized weapon racks".


I wonder if credit/debit cards will fit in there. GW could sell wallets that lock into the underside, to facilitate your next in-store purchase. Put a scanner into the tabletop, so that you can swipe it during gameplay. Think of all the time you'd save!



Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/29 13:58:12


Post by: Polonius


I simply love controversies like these. Because while there’s obviously something inherently lousy about the missing bottom, watching people wind themselves into hyperbolic rants about it is like watching Van Gogh paint.

Given it’s size and role, the consensus was mild surprise over the price, which is between the repulsor and repulsor executioner. This despite GW typically using new models to set new price bands (and clearly doing so with the characters). So, this guy comes in roughly ten to twenty bucks cheaper than I expected.

Obviously the frames are jammed full of options already, so there’s not really room without cutting a ton of accessories. As noted, none of these sprues have any real potential for other kits.

So let’s look at this:
- model missing a bottom
- no obvious room on the sprues without losing a lot of accessories
- final price competitive with other heavy tanks from 3-6 years ago
- oh, and a single square of plasticard will fix the problem unless your actually flipping it over.

So, given everything we know, the options were going to be a fourth sprue and another $15 to list price, or a goofy compromise that keeps the price relatively low while prioritizing new crew and accessories over a simple scratch build.

If your argument is simply that GW products are expensive, or even the slightly more insightful argument that GW tanks are more expensive than scale models, congratulations! You are correct! Nobody disagrees, they just don’t care.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:
So. Some people complain, smart people think.


See, this is quality content.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/29 14:10:47


Post by: lord_blackfang


There are people who are bothered.

There are people who aren't bothered.

Then there are the corporate toxic fanbois bending over backwards for daddy GW telling others that their opinions aren't valid because if they were, that would mean the brand they base their entire personality around wasn't infallible.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/29 14:53:39


Post by: Dudeface


 lord_blackfang wrote:
There are people who are bothered.

There are people who aren't bothered.

Then there are the corporate toxic fanbois bending over backwards for daddy GW telling others that their opinions aren't valid because if they were, that would mean the brand they base their entire personality around wasn't infallible.


Well, that's a very lopsided representation of people with a heap of projection thrown in, are you feeling OK?


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/30 08:56:50


Post by: AtoMaki


 Polonius wrote:

- no obvious room on the sprues without losing a lot of accessories

This is untrue. In fact, as far as I can tell, the bottom could have been covered up without any separate piece on the sprue as the front and rear plates already go under the tank, they just need to be a little longer to touch in the middle.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/30 09:51:00


Post by: lcmiracle


 lord_blackfang wrote:
There are people who are bothered.

There are people who aren't bothered.

Then there are the corporate toxic fanbois bending over backwards for daddy GW telling others that their opinions aren't valid because if they were, that would mean the brand they base their entire personality around wasn't infallible.


Sadly, more and more so such sycophants are coming out of the wood work to enable toxic corporate sabotage of basic customer behaviors, dark times we live in...


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/30 12:41:23


Post by: Dai


 lcmiracle wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
There are people who are bothered.

There are people who aren't bothered.

Then there are the corporate toxic fanbois bending over backwards for daddy GW telling others that their opinions aren't valid because if they were, that would mean the brand they base their entire personality around wasn't infallible.


Sadly, more and more so such sycophants are coming out of the wood work to enable toxic corporate sabotage of basic customer behaviors, dark times we live in...

Do you think it likely you will win people around to your pov with this attitude? Youre making me want to defend gw just to oppose it.


Shut yer Dorn Hole! (Rogal Dorn tank hull discussion) @ 2023/01/30 13:54:04


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Ok this fun thread is becoming a bit heated so I think it's time to close things down.

Just remember to always keep your Dorn Hole covered and you'll be fine.