Billicus wrote: This seems to be at a horrible time for nearly all timezones. Impressive.
Unsurprisingly time is chosen to work with people actually at adepticon
Who in the world goes to a convention to watch youtube broadcast at 10pm in the middle of the week?
lord_blackfang wrote: My wish for HH would be non-Mk6 Assault Squad, my guess as to what it will actually be is Fellblade.
So what is with the obsession about the super heavies lately? I'm not sure why people keep 'calling' this.
The stream starts when the Warhammer Preview seminar ends at Adepticon, presumably to preempt less-than-optimal fotos of the presentation being the first thing the Internet sees about their big reveal.
People 'calling' the Superheavies is an outflow from GW obviously trying to replace as many resin HH tanks as possible with plastic kits, the Fellblade etc. is a logical step in that effort.
Billicus wrote: It's nonsensical having it at 10pm US to fit with the adepticon schedule, there's like 0.01% of the audience there. I've got no idea why they do it.
The seminar that they run in-person for Adepticon ends around that time. They put the preview show after to stop the spread of nonsense rumors & potato cam pictures.
Billicus wrote: It's nonsensical having it at 10pm US to fit with the adepticon schedule, there's like 0.01% of the audience there. I've got no idea why they do it.
The seminar that they run in-person for Adepticon ends around that time. They put the preview show after to stop the spread of nonsense rumors & potato cam pictures.
I don't see how that refutes my point at all, if anything maybe they should just run the seminar after instead? Why do adepticon attendees need some kind of seminar, they don't bother for any other shows.
Billicus wrote: It's nonsensical having it at 10pm US to fit with the adepticon schedule, there's like 0.01% of the audience there. I've got no idea why they do it.
The seminar that they run in-person for Adepticon ends around that time. They put the preview show after to stop the spread of nonsense rumors & potato cam pictures.
I don't see how that refutes my point at all, if anything maybe they should just run the seminar after instead? Why do adepticon attendees need some kind of seminar, they don't bother for any other shows.
GW also do reveal shows/ seminars at LVO, have done them at Spiel Essen before the pandemic, Germany and i think a couple of other european countries got their own 'Games Day' back in the day... the last few years where everything was done online were the exception, not the rule.
I'm actually going to be at this one, never went to a GW seminar before (or a major gaming convention for that matter), so I'm curious to see what it will be like in person. I really don't play GW games anymore, but still occasionally pick up a box of minis to paint or use in other games and I'm generally really impressed with the quality of their miniatures.
I'm mostly going for Battletech stuff on Thursday/Friday, but was going to be down at Adepticon Wednesday as it's a six hour drive and I really didn't want to get up at some stupid early hour to get there Thursday. I saw this was on the ticket and figured I might as well stop in and see what it's like.
Sabotage! wrote: I'm actually going to be at this one, never went to a GW seminar before (or a major gaming convention for that matter), so I'm curious to see what it will be like in person. I really don't play GW games anymore, but still occasionally pick up a box of minis to paint or use in other games and I'm generally really impressed with the quality of their miniatures.
I'm mostly going for Battletech stuff on Thursday/Friday, but was going to be down at Adepticon Wednesday as it's a six hour drive and I really didn't want to get up at some stupid early hour to get there Thursday. I saw this was on the ticket and figured I might as well stop in and see what it's like.
Sabotage! wrote: I'm actually going to be at this one, never went to a GW seminar before (or a major gaming convention for that matter), so I'm curious to see what it will be like in person. I really don't play GW games anymore, but still occasionally pick up a box of minis to paint or use in other games and I'm generally really impressed with the quality of their miniatures.
I'm mostly going for Battletech stuff on Thursday/Friday, but was going to be down at Adepticon Wednesday as it's a six hour drive and I really didn't want to get up at some stupid early hour to get there Thursday. I saw this was on the ticket and figured I might as well stop in and see what it's like.
Hahaha, love it. After years of terrible pictures from 10 year out of date cell phones that are in the hand of someone operating a paint mixer, I'm glad GW finally just said "We'll put up decent pictures when the seminar is done."
Weird that we have a reveal for killteam but not for warcry. Their 3rd boxes were released the same day, so I guess the 4th boxes will be released pretty close together too.
speaking of kill teams, any ideas for what they might be? we know its going to be the final "Into the dark" box, set in the Gallowdark. going off of previous Kill Team boxes, it will feature one brand new kit, and one kit that is a upgrade sprue for an existing kit. Most of the time, one of the kits will be a Imperial one, but its not axiomatic (as the Nachmund set was Chaos marines vs Eldar Corsairs).
my hopes? Voltann prospectors kill team vs nids infiltrators of some sort, or maybe an admech archeotech hunters team. dont think we'll get those, but i can hope.
While I'm as excited as anyone to see what's coming up with this reveal I can't help but feel a little bit confused, no Blood Bowl?!
There were plenty of sources online adamant, expecting, promising even from inside sources there would be a Blood Bowl team revealed at Adepticon lol. Oh well guess I got suckered then. Glad I'm not the only one though lol.
Anyway there's enough other interesting things coming to focus on. Trying to keep my expectations in check though when I read the WHC article about being seismic, not missing this one, real showstopper and having my mind blown.
Gert wrote: With the amount of whinging that came about from the MkVI studded pads, I'd be shocked to see plastic MkV.
I was all in for Mk VI assault troops (I don't get the pushback on this armour type), but now I think Mk V would be a much better bet. Better suited to close combat dudes, and more variety. And the complaints about the studs on the Mk VI pauldrons are overblown - with a bit of care, the join disappears and you end up with much better defined studs than a one-piece cast.
That said, I am not expecting them to reveal plastic assault troops yet. I think another big tank is much more likely. Which would be preferable to more FW resin character models.
Next KT box is called 'Gallowfall', isn't it? So the last episode of the Space Hulk and maybe it's destruction. I'd expect something more than just some Squats looking for stuff then. It's mostly populated with Chaos guys, but I'm not sure if turning it into an Ark of Omen is a 'fall'. Maybe there'll be an Exterminatus. Or... Tyranids. Or both.
Dryaktylus wrote: Next KT box is called 'Gallowfall', isn't it? So the last episode of the Space Hulk and maybe it's destruction. I'd expect something more than just some Squats looking for stuff then. It's mostly populated with Chaos guys, but I'm not sure if turning it into an Ark of Omen is a 'fall'. Maybe there'll be an Exterminatus. Or... Tyranids. Or both.
Yeah, it's pretty strange.
I mean, in this season of Kill Team we've gotten quite a mix of units.
Arbites, Navy Breachers, Kroot, Drukhari, Kasrkin, Necron...
That's a lotta human and xenos factions.
I suppose if they wanted to stick with the theme, the last one might be human vs xenos, space marine vs tyranids.
I hope it will be 5 resin Mk VI heads (and 5 resin torso spacers to fix their gak anatomy at least a bit) upgrade box for plastic 40K assault squad to make HH unit. It would make for very amusing week afterwards
This edition of killteam, including Gallowdark has had:
AM - Kasrkin and Krieg Vets
SM - Phobos
SoB - Young Nuns
Tau - Pathfinders? & Kroot
Chaos - Marines and Traitor Guard
Eldar/Dark Eldar - Corsairs
Necrons - Cryptek Crew
Imperium (misc) - Breacher, Arbites
Orks - Kommandos
(Not including re-release teams like Gellerpox etc)
That leaves...
Custodes
Multiple Marine Chapters (Neglible reason to get specific sets though so you'd hope would be unlikely, but this is GW)
Tyranids
Daemons
GSC Ad Mech
DG/TS/WE (Probably as likely/unlikely as chapter specific marines, less likely in all regards)
Votann
Out of full established factions - Not including Knights of all varieties for obvious reasons, and you can't discount an Inquisition force... You would guess/hope one faction is from the above list of not getting a kit, yet... I think it would be a poor showing on GW's part to not have a space hulk without some Nids or GSC, but Arbites didn't make sense and was picked over them. Orks are another Space Hulk heavy user factions.
Kasrkin vs Nids would have been so cool, essential colonial marines vs Aliens. Oh well.
This edition of killteam, including Gallowdark has had:
AM - Kasrkin and Krieg Vets
SM - Phobos
SoB - Young Nuns
Tau - Pathfinders? & Kroot
Chaos - Marines and Traitor Guard
Eldar/Dark Eldar - Corsairs
Necrons - Cryptek Crew
Imperium (misc) - Breacher, Arbites
Orks - Kommandos
(Not including re-release teams like Gellerpox etc)
That leaves...
Custodes
Multiple Marine Chapters (Neglible reason to get specific sets though so you'd hope would be unlikely, but this is GW)
Tyranids
Daemons
GSC Ad Mech
DG/TS/WE (Probably as likely/unlikely as chapter specific marines, less likely in all regards)
Votann
Out of full established factions - Not including Knights of all varieties for obvious reasons, and you can't discount an Inquisition force... You would guess/hope one faction is from the above list of not getting a kit, yet... I think it would be a poor showing on GW's part to not have a space hulk without some Nids or GSC, but Arbites didn't make sense and was picked over them. Orks are another Space Hulk heavy user factions.
Kasrkin vs Nids would have been so cool, essential colonial marines vs Aliens. Oh well.
id argue the factions that got white dwarf kill teams (admech, GSC, Tsons and harliquins) are the least likely to get new teams as they have "full" rules already.
Custodes
Multiple Marine Chapters (Neglible reason to get specific sets though so you'd hope would be unlikely, but this is GW)
Tyranids
Daemons
GSC Ad Mech
DG/TS/WE (Probably as likely/unlikely as chapter specific marines, less likely in all regards)
Votann
We saw a small new tzeentch daemon model recently. What are the odds that's from a Horror-based kill team upgrade sprue?
This edition of killteam, including Gallowdark has had:
AM - Kasrkin and Krieg Vets
SM - Phobos
SoB - Young Nuns
Tau - Pathfinders? & Kroot
Chaos - Marines and Traitor Guard
Eldar/Dark Eldar - Corsairs
Necrons - Cryptek Crew
Imperium (misc) - Breacher, Arbites
Orks - Kommandos
(Not including re-release teams like Gellerpox etc)
That leaves...
Custodes
Multiple Marine Chapters (Neglible reason to get specific sets though so you'd hope would be unlikely, but this is GW)
Tyranids
Daemons
GSC Ad Mech
DG/TS/WE (Probably as likely/unlikely as chapter specific marines, less likely in all regards)
Votann
Out of full established factions - Not including Knights of all varieties for obvious reasons, and you can't discount an Inquisition force... You would guess/hope one faction is from the above list of not getting a kit, yet... I think it would be a poor showing on GW's part to not have a space hulk without some Nids or GSC, but Arbites didn't make sense and was picked over them. Orks are another Space Hulk heavy user factions.
Kasrkin vs Nids would have been so cool, essential colonial marines vs Aliens. Oh well.
id argue the factions that got white dwarf kill teams (admech, GSC, Tsons and harliquins) are the least likely to get new teams as they have "full" rules already.
Looking at it purely from a models POV, either upgrade sprues or brand new models. I get what you are saying about new teams from White Dwarf, but there are multiple from other factions as well in the core rules.
Just reminded me anyway, GK can go on the no models/upgrade sprue list. I think DW would be lumped in with other chapters, even though they would be one of the most thematic kits for a special kill team - could also mean GW could mix the KT in as non army rule breaking allies for other imperial forces, same as GK's as they could be given an agents keyword which would be badass. Would really like to run a DW killteam with my AM without it hamping rules - be like the good old days of 3rd edition again.
This edition of killteam, including Gallowdark has had:
AM - Kasrkin and Krieg Vets
SM - Phobos
SoB - Young Nuns
Tau - Pathfinders? & Kroot
Chaos - Marines and Traitor Guard
Eldar/Dark Eldar - Corsairs
Necrons - Cryptek Crew
Imperium (misc) - Breacher, Arbites
Orks - Kommandos
(Not including re-release teams like Gellerpox etc)
That leaves...
Custodes
Multiple Marine Chapters (Neglible reason to get specific sets though so you'd hope would be unlikely, but this is GW)
Tyranids
Daemons
GSC Ad Mech
DG/TS/WE (Probably as likely/unlikely as chapter specific marines, less likely in all regards)
Votann
Out of full established factions - Not including Knights of all varieties for obvious reasons, and you can't discount an Inquisition force... You would guess/hope one faction is from the above list of not getting a kit, yet... I think it would be a poor showing on GW's part to not have a space hulk without some Nids or GSC, but Arbites didn't make sense and was picked over them. Orks are another Space Hulk heavy user factions.
Kasrkin vs Nids would have been so cool, essential colonial marines vs Aliens. Oh well.
I’d split the Eldar teams
Craftworld - Corsair Voidscarred
Drukhari - Hand of the Archon
Genestealers or Freebooterz are definitely missed opportunities. Except for Nachmund all the boxes have been Imperium vs someone.
A couple of pair ups that probably won’t happen:
Ad Mech vs GSC - Last edition starter II
Ad Mech vs Votann - Who’s jumping whose claim
Ad Mech vs Dark Mech - Tie in with AoO
Inquisition vs Daemons - Not unless we’re getting undivided daemons
This edition of killteam, including Gallowdark has had:
AM - Kasrkin and Krieg Vets
SM - Phobos
SoB - Young Nuns
Tau - Pathfinders? & Kroot
Chaos - Marines and Traitor Guard
Eldar/Dark Eldar - Corsairs
Necrons - Cryptek Crew
Imperium (misc) - Breacher, Arbites
Orks - Kommandos
(Not including re-release teams like Gellerpox etc)
That leaves...
Custodes
Multiple Marine Chapters (Neglible reason to get specific sets though so you'd hope would be unlikely, but this is GW)
Tyranids
Daemons
GSC Ad Mech
DG/TS/WE (Probably as likely/unlikely as chapter specific marines, less likely in all regards)
Votann
Out of full established factions - Not including Knights of all varieties for obvious reasons, and you can't discount an Inquisition force... You would guess/hope one faction is from the above list of not getting a kit, yet... I think it would be a poor showing on GW's part to not have a space hulk without some Nids or GSC, but Arbites didn't make sense and was picked over them. Orks are another Space Hulk heavy user factions.
Kasrkin vs Nids would have been so cool, essential colonial marines vs Aliens. Oh well.
I’d split the Eldar teams
Craftworld - Corsair Voidscarred
Drukhari - Hand of the Archon
Genestealers or Freebooterz are definitely missed opportunities. Except for Nachmund all the boxes have been Imperium vs someone.
A couple of pair ups that probably won’t happen:
Ad Mech vs GSC - Last edition starter II
Ad Mech vs Votann - Who’s jumping whose claim
Ad Mech vs Dark Mech - Tie in with AoO
Inquisition vs Daemons - Not unless we’re getting undivided daemons
Agreed, and also forgot about the new Drukhari kit
Freebooters would have been really cool, I was thinking of them myself.
I'd prefer to see Genestealers with Terminators tbh, I think a Lictor based kill team would be cool. A smaller style kill team, maybe with the red terror or variation. 3-4 of them.
This edition of killteam, including Gallowdark has had:
AM - Kasrkin and Krieg Vets
SM - Phobos
SoB - Young Nuns
Tau - Pathfinders? & Kroot
Chaos - Marines and Traitor Guard
Eldar/Dark Eldar - Corsairs
Necrons - Cryptek Crew
Imperium (misc) - Breacher, Arbites
Orks - Kommandos
(Not including re-release teams like Gellerpox etc)
That leaves...
Custodes
Multiple Marine Chapters (Neglible reason to get specific sets though so you'd hope would be unlikely, but this is GW)
Tyranids
Daemons
GSC Ad Mech
DG/TS/WE (Probably as likely/unlikely as chapter specific marines, less likely in all regards)
Votann
Out of full established factions - Not including Knights of all varieties for obvious reasons, and you can't discount an Inquisition force... You would guess/hope one faction is from the above list of not getting a kit, yet... I think it would be a poor showing on GW's part to not have a space hulk without some Nids or GSC, but Arbites didn't make sense and was picked over them. Orks are another Space Hulk heavy user factions.
Kasrkin vs Nids would have been so cool, essential colonial marines vs Aliens. Oh well.
I’d split the Eldar teams
Craftworld - Corsair Voidscarred
Drukhari - Hand of the Archon
Genestealers or Freebooterz are definitely missed opportunities. Except for Nachmund all the boxes have been Imperium vs someone.
A couple of pair ups that probably won’t happen:
Ad Mech vs GSC - Last edition starter II
Ad Mech vs Votann - Who’s jumping whose claim
Ad Mech vs Dark Mech - Tie in with AoO
Inquisition vs Daemons - Not unless we’re getting undivided daemons
Agreed, and also forgot about the new Drukhari kit
Freebooters would have been really cool, I was thinking of them myself.
I'd prefer to see Genestealers with Terminators tbh, I think a Lictor based kill team would be cool. A smaller style kill team, maybe with the red terror or variation. 3-4 of them.
I’m wondering if the 40K logo on the Tyranid and Terminator trailers is for the 40K universe or 40K game. If it’s for the universe then the trailer could be for Kill Team.
Hopefully lictors will be released along with a rerelease of the Deathworld Forest Killzone and other two zones for the next season.
Custodes
Multiple Marine Chapters (Neglible reason to get specific sets though so you'd hope would be unlikely, but this is GW)
Tyranids
Daemons
GSC Ad Mech
DG/TS/WE (Probably as likely/unlikely as chapter specific marines, less likely in all regards)
Votann
We saw a small new tzeentch daemon model recently. What are the odds that's from a Horror-based kill team upgrade sprue?
That tease had a sculpted base. In my mind, that pretty much guarantees it’s aos underworlds or an event/exclusive model
I'm going fairly restrained with my predictions, I think.
Warhammer 40,000 - Last Arks of Omen book + any accompanying model(s).
Age of Sigmar - Next two books from the roadmap, plus any new figures to go with them? Maybe another Seraphon preview or two?
Horus Heresy - MOAR TANKS! Fellblade/Glaive?
Kill Team - Next big box - No idea who, though. Any of AdMech/Votann/Tyranids would be cool. Possibly not a full reveal of the contents, but at least one model from each side, plus something about the scenery.
Underworlds - Next big start-of-season box, plus season roadmap? Are we due a new setting for this one?
The next reveal to make you - yes, YOU, personally - disappionted is nearly here.
Given their habit to spread the "important previews" on as much time as possible, I totally expect a small reveal of the next 40k edition starter that ends with a stupid trailer without saying much on the actual edition changes. Too soon, man, too soon.
Kill Team - Next big box - No idea who, though. Any of AdMech/Votann/Tyranids would be cool. Possibly not a full reveal of the contents, but at least one model from each side, plus something about the scenery.
From my personal speculation about Valrak's sources, i guess that at least one of his predictions - either chaos cultists or beastmen - for Killteam will be revealed now, it seems to fit right in the time window for his more trustworthy stuff.
GaroRobe wrote: I think they’ll tease the lion but not reveal him. Though maybe they will fully show him off if they’re afraid he’ll be leaked early.
Given all the reliable rumors so far, I’m amazed he hasn’t leaked. All three daemon primarchs were leaked way before their release
Depends on if the last AoO book is really called 'The Lion' or not - if it is, there's not much sense in keeping him secret much longer, and i guess the one-two-punch of the last Tarot card for book 5 on Friday and then images and the model reveal on a couple of days later is enough to generate hype for it.
GaroRobe wrote: I think they’ll tease the lion but not reveal him. Though maybe they will fully show him off if they’re afraid he’ll be leaked early.
Given all the reliable rumors so far, I’m amazed he hasn’t leaked. All three daemon primarchs were leaked way before their release
That just proves that to get leaked the model needs to be a Daemon Primarch. Just being a Traitor Primarch isn't enough.
GW has two big events left before the new edition. Adepticon and Warhammer Fest. We can say with near certainty that the latter will be all about the new edition. And we had both Farsigth and Arks of Omen book four revealed already. I seems unlikely that book five content would be held back from Adepticon when it's one of GW's biggest reveal events.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Would really like to run a DW killteam with my AM without it hamping rules - be like the good old days of 3rd edition again.
Nope. Not like 3rd at all, because Xenos Hunters, which would have been the book that included DW was never released, and it is still the worst sin of the edition. In 3rd, the Ordo Xenos were the only Ordo that did not have a Chamber Militant.
Strg Alt wrote: Insider info. They will show off a new game:
Epic 30K.
This is a Joke, right?
Here's hoping. It's already mistake to have even ONE game that includes less than half of the factions. It would be a sin as great as edition churn and price gouging to create ANOTHER game that excludes so many factions.
- The next big Kill Team box will be Votann vs. Beastmen according to sources he trusts
- 'So much more stuff' is coming for KT, Eldar, Space Marines etc.
- Campaign book 'Cthonia' coming for HH, campaign involving Sons of Horus and Imperial Fists
- Tank commander models for the legions
- Forge World Knights going plastic according to sources he trusts
- 'Maybe' hints at Epic as Horus Heresy Epic
- Epic coming at the end of the year according to sources he highly trusts
- Adeptus Titanicus titans and Aeronautica planes are going to be wrapped into Epic
- Age of Sigmar: Cities of Sigmar are getting a box set reveal
- Blablabla the Lion is coming reiterated for the n-th time
- Dante speculated to be revealed at Adepticon
- More boarding patrols: Agents of the Imperium, Nurgle
- Maybe a trailer for the CGI trailer for 10th edition
Here's hoping. It's already mistake to have even ONE game that includes less than half of the factions. It would be a sin as great as edition churn and price gouging to create ANOTHER game that excludes so many factions.
Nah great idea. Titans already done, three sprues- Infantry, rhinos and landraiders, some resin tanks- easy. Couple of years time xenos then we're on to epic 40k.
Some of you people need to stop thinking about what you want and start thinking about the poor shareholders.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Would really like to run a DW killteam with my AM without it hamping rules - be like the good old days of 3rd edition again.
Nope. Not like 3rd at all, because Xenos Hunters, which would have been the book that included DW was never released, and it is still the worst sin of the edition. In 3rd, the Ordo Xenos were the only Ordo that did not have a Chamber Militant.
While Codex: Xenos Hunters was never released, rules for a Deathwatch Kill Team unit to ally into Imperium armies were - though I can't remember if they were in late 3rd or early 4th edition. The only model support was a sprue with special bolter, shoulder pad, and maybe a helmet.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Would really like to run a DW killteam with my AM without it hamping rules - be like the good old days of 3rd edition again.
Nope. Not like 3rd at all, because Xenos Hunters, which would have been the book that included DW was never released, and it is still the worst sin of the edition. In 3rd, the Ordo Xenos were the only Ordo that did not have a Chamber Militant.
While Codex: Xenos Hunters was never released, rules for a Deathwatch Kill Team unit to ally into Imperium armies were - though I can't remember if they were in late 3rd or early 4th edition. The only model support was a sprue with special bolter, shoulder pad, and maybe a helmet.
3rd edition White dwarf supplement. Well before either of the Inquisition chamber militant codex's either. Could have a Captain or Librarian within the squad. Was badass.
The original plastic Warlord Titan made it through two editions of Epic Space Marine before it was updated, eventually earning two separate metal iterations. And while epic scale Warhammer is in abeyance, the current edition of Adeptus Titanicus has brought many more God-engines out to play.
Abeyance = a state of temporary disuse or suspension...
The original plastic Warlord Titan made it through two editions of Epic Space Marine before it was updated, eventually earning two separate metal iterations. And while epic scale Warhammer is in abeyance, the current edition of Adeptus Titanicus has brought many more God-engines out to play.
Abeyance = a state of temporary disuse or suspension...
They have also called the upcoming reveals 'seismic' in the past couple of days, and while that could just be a case of thesaurus abuse, it's also a choice of words closely related to titans and other large warmachines.
From the flashback article about the original plastic Warlord
Warhammer Community wrote: The original plastic Warlord Titan made it through two editions of Epic Space Marine before it was updated, eventually earning two separate metal iterations. And while epic scale Warhammer is in abeyance, the current edition of Adeptus Titanicus has brought many more God-engines out to play.
Huh. The specificity of word choices there is interesting. Not just abeyance, but 'epic scale warhammer' (which isn't even setting or era specific) rather than any of its actual product names other than the original Epic Space Marine.
If the Voltann and Beastmen both got figures in Necromunda before getting a wider release then Ratlings most be next. Codex Abhuman confirmed for 10th.
My position regarding Epic continues to be that I don't understand why GW would be keen to jump back into the 6mm tank and infantry space. Their competitive advantage is with bigger kits. There are plenty of third-party sculpts and 3D print designs available for the smaller units that look like their 28mm counterparts with a very good level of detail. I don't see what's in GW for them other than continuing to push the existing plane and Titan kits. And they don't really need a new Epic game to do that. Also, I agree that the Epic customer base (not enormous for sure, but you'd still want them on board) will want their xenos and Chaos factions.
And overall, this feels like the same old preview cycle where people like Valrak get the fan base ginned up for all these huge reveals, only to receive a more pedestrian lineup. Which might still be cool stuff, but not the everything plus the kitchen sink that was 'promised'.
gorgon wrote: And overall, this feels like the same old preview cycle where people like Valrak get the fan base ginned up for all these huge reveals, only to receive a more pedestrian lineup. Which might still be cool stuff, but not the everything plus the kitchen sink that was 'promised'.
So many people are going to be mad at GW when a new edition of Epic is not announced or even teased when they now expect it.
gorgon wrote: And overall, this feels like the same old preview cycle where people like Valrak get the fan base ginned up for all these huge reveals, only to receive a more pedestrian lineup. Which might still be cool stuff, but not the everything plus the kitchen sink that was 'promised'.
So many people are going to be mad at GW when a new edition of Epic is not announced or even teased when they now expect it.
I guess they can be if they want, but between the active game systems, Old World and various misc stuff, even if Epic is underway, it will be 3-4 years minimum. The edition cycle for 40k and AoS is too short, and with HH and TOW on top, plus necromunda and kill team, there just isn't a lot of room to expect a meaningful announcement. Just little teases like this one.
gorgon wrote: My position regarding Epic continues to be that I don't understand why GW would be keen to jump back into the 6mm tank and infantry space. Their competitive advantage is with bigger kits. There are plenty of third-party sculpts and 3D print designs available for the smaller units that look like their 28mm counterparts with a very good level of detail. I don't see what's in GW for them other than continuing to push the existing plane and Titan kits. And they don't really need a new Epic game to do that. Also, I agree that the Epic customer base (not enormous for sure, but you'd still want them on board) will want their xenos and Chaos factions.
And overall, this feels like the same old preview cycle where people like Valrak get the fan base ginned up for all these huge reveals, only to receive a more pedestrian lineup. Which might still be cool stuff, but not the everything plus the kitchen sink that was 'promised'.
Get money from customers rather than leave for others to benefit? The sales they lose by not selling epic doesn't go to gw.
As for xenos etc that's matter of logistic. 100 new plastic sprue is too much to expect right away. Epic started as hh due to logistics and it's just gone more pressing in time due to increased factions, units and removal of metal models.
Gw was stupid enough to think by removing other games customers just transfer purchases to 40k which is flat out wrong. Maybe they learned from mistake.
gorgon wrote: My position regarding Epic continues to be that I don't understand why GW would be keen to jump back into the 6mm tank and infantry space. Their competitive advantage is with bigger kits. There are plenty of third-party sculpts and 3D print designs available for the smaller units that look like their 28mm counterparts with a very good level of detail. I don't see what's in GW for them other than continuing to push the existing plane and Titan kits. And they don't really need a new Epic game to do that. Also, I agree that the Epic customer base (not enormous for sure, but you'd still want them on board) will want their xenos and Chaos factions.
And overall, this feels like the same old preview cycle where people like Valrak get the fan base ginned up for all these huge reveals, only to receive a more pedestrian lineup. Which might still be cool stuff, but not the everything plus the kitchen sink that was 'promised'.
Get money from customers rather than leave for others to benefit? The sales they lose by not selling epic doesn't go to gw.
As for xenos etc that's matter of logistic. 100 new plastic sprue is too much to expect right away. Epic started as hh due to logistics and it's just gone more pressing in time due to increased factions, units and removal of metal models.
Gw was stupid enough to think by removing other games customers just transfer purchases to 40k which is flat out wrong. Maybe they learned from mistake.
But does the infantry sprue sales opportunity really warrant the release of a new game? And it'd have to be a new game, because AT is a system designed around the micromanagement of Titans. It already starts to break down with Knight armies.
Of course, there's a chance that nu-Epic is more of an "Epic" in that it is just AT 2.0 with the option for a sidecar of planes or tanks, similar to how Knights work alongside Titan maniples. That would seem to me to be the most believable scenario.
Regarding xenos, yes, it would potentially be an ungodly amount of SKUs. But my comment was about what the customers WANT. And I think both the Epic vets and people new to the game would be much more interested if more factions existed for the game. There's no doubt in my mind that it's held AT back, even as I understand why and think it's a great game.
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MajorWesJanson wrote: So many people are going to be mad at GW when a new edition of Epic is not announced or even teased when they now expect it.
The fanbase is even more convinced that the Lion is coming to 40K, so the response to a letdown there oughta be really fun.
gorgon wrote: My position regarding Epic continues to be that I don't understand why GW would be keen to jump back into the 6mm tank and infantry space. Their competitive advantage is with bigger kits. There are plenty of third-party sculpts and 3D print designs available for the smaller units that look like their 28mm counterparts with a very good level of detail. I don't see what's in GW for them other than continuing to push the existing plane and Titan kits. And they don't really need a new Epic game to do that. Also, I agree that the Epic customer base (not enormous for sure, but you'd still want them on board) will want their xenos and Chaos factions.
And overall, this feels like the same old preview cycle where people like Valrak get the fan base ginned up for all these huge reveals, only to receive a more pedestrian lineup. Which might still be cool stuff, but not the everything plus the kitchen sink that was 'promised'.
GW is probably protecting their trademarks. Didn’t they send out a bunch of cease and desist notices a few weeks ago?
If the setting is in the heresy then it probably just needs armies for marines, guard, and mechanicus. Unfortunately they’re going to get flooded with requests for the xenos armies that already have aircraft.
gorgon wrote: And overall, this feels like the same old preview cycle where people like Valrak get the fan base ginned up for all these huge reveals, only to receive a more pedestrian lineup. Which might still be cool stuff, but not the everything plus the kitchen sink that was 'promised'.
So many people are going to be mad at GW when a new edition of Epic is not announced or even teased when they now expect it.
I guess they can be if they want, but between the active game systems, Old World and various misc stuff, even if Epic is underway, it will be 3-4 years minimum. The edition cycle for 40k and AoS is too short, and with HH and TOW on top, plus necromunda and kill team, there just isn't a lot of room to expect a meaningful announcement. Just little teases like this one.
Probably not that far away actually. GW did at one time discuss that the true advantage of their new design methods (CAD) is that they can easily scale up/down models when needed and required.
Yes it isn't as quick as clicking a button, but it is a lot faster than designing the model from scratch. I assume the sprue process is probably a lot more straight forward as well, as there will be hardly any models that need to have multiple parts to them.
gorgon wrote: My position regarding Epic continues to be that I don't understand why GW would be keen to jump back into the 6mm tank and infantry space. Their competitive advantage is with bigger kits. There are plenty of third-party sculpts and 3D print designs available for the smaller units that look like their 28mm counterparts with a very good level of detail. I don't see what's in GW for them other than continuing to push the existing plane and Titan kits. And they don't really need a new Epic game to do that. Also, I agree that the Epic customer base (not enormous for sure, but you'd still want them on board) will want their xenos and Chaos factions.
And overall, this feels like the same old preview cycle where people like Valrak get the fan base ginned up for all these huge reveals, only to receive a more pedestrian lineup. Which might still be cool stuff, but not the everything plus the kitchen sink that was 'promised'.
Get money from customers rather than leave for others to benefit? The sales they lose by not selling epic doesn't go to gw.
As for xenos etc that's matter of logistic. 100 new plastic sprue is too much to expect right away. Epic started as hh due to logistics and it's just gone more pressing in time due to increased factions, units and removal of metal models.
Gw was stupid enough to think by removing other games customers just transfer purchases to 40k which is flat out wrong. Maybe they learned from mistake.
But does the infantry sprue sales opportunity really warrant the release of a new game? And it'd have to be a new game, because AT is a system designed around the micromanagement of Titans. It already starts to break down with Knight armies.
Of course, there's a chance that nu-Epic is more of an "Epic" in that it is just AT 2.0 with the option for a sidecar of planes or tanks, similar to how Knights work alongside Titan maniples. That would seem to me to be the most believable scenario.
Regarding xenos, yes, it would potentially be an ungodly amount of SKUs. But my comment was about what the customers WANT. And I think both the Epic vets and people new to the game would be much more interested if more factions existed for the game. There's no doubt in my mind that it's held AT back, even as I understand why and think it's a great game.
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MajorWesJanson wrote: So many people are going to be mad at GW when a new edition of Epic is not announced or even teased when they now expect it.
The fanbase is even more convinced that the Lion is coming to 40K, so the response to a letdown there oughta be really fun.
Infantry, vehicles, eventually xenos. Lots of sale pontial gw would leave away.
Last time gw did epic with minor support they exceeded own expectations by 400%
But does the infantry sprue sales opportunity really warrant the release of a new game?
Does the possibility of selling some boxes justify the publishing of WarCry? Are the boxed games even profitable? What's in it for GW if they release a new BloodBowl season? We don't really know what their management processes are and how they even calculate 'success' by their internal metrics, and sometimes their seemingly random processes make it look like they don't know either We also only have the vaguest of rumours, people are quick to imagine that 'Epic 30k' would be a full side-game with boxes and blisters and customizable forces etc., but it might as well be just a single box with a couple of infantry sprues and some tank squadrons etc. like the original Epic box. Releasing a rando box and never showing any support beyond WD rules to use your existing AI planes and stuff with it would be far from the weirdest thing GW has done recently.
Looks alright. I mentioned some time back that Infernal Brush was painting his conversion and this may signify the new model release is imminent. With this in mind I'm gonna say that Epic is also all but confirmed, as indicated by the Duncan Rhodes video.
My friend had a lot of epic stuff back around 2000 or so and IIRC he had not only marines (both imperial and chaos) and guard but also eldar, nids and, orcs. So I don't see why people are saying that there were no xenos.
As a side note I bet that GW still has the molds for those armies so it shouldn't be that much of a problem to get them into production.
People are saying there's no xenos in HH, the current epic scale game. If they choose that timeline for the new Epic, it would mean no xenos because Imperium vs 40k xenos mostly happened after the HH with some exceptions like Orks.
Tsagualsa wrote: Someone on the Valrak stream remarked that the Primaris helmet on the base has a partial chaos star on it... i think it's just Death Company.
3rd edition White dwarf supplement. Well before either of the Inquisition chamber militant codex's either. Could have a Captain or Librarian within the squad. Was badass.
Huh, must have missed that issue. While I still would have preferred a full Xeno Hunter book, had I known about this back in the day, I might have been less bitter.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I dunno... I just don't see them announcing 10th until after the Ark books are done.
GW Marketing tends to run in 3 month cycles. So if its a June/July mid year release we are about at the point where we'd see the marketing start. Which we think we have with the sneaky eye teases that they've done recently. Which feel like they are leading up to something soonish in terms of confirming something. Because on their own they kind of appear and vanish into nothing.
I'd expect some news about 10th. Not a "here's all the models" kind but we might get to see one or two new ones (one from each side) at absolute best .
Yeah, I think it will end with some kind of further animated tease in a similar vein to the one we got last week. They won't explicitly say 10th is coming, but just "something" and allude to Terminators vs Nids a bit more.
It wouldn't surprise me if the two shorts we've seen so far are both extracts from a 45 second ish tease that will be shown.
The Phazer wrote: Yeah, I think it will end with some kind of further animated tease in a similar vein to the one we got last week. They won't explicitly say 10th is coming, but just "something" and allude to Terminators vs Nids a bit more.
It wouldn't surprise me if the two shorts we've seen so far are both extracts from a 45 second ish tease that will be shown.
I am personally convinced that they can and will not resist the temptation to call it 'X' edition
Leo_the_Rat wrote: My friend had a lot of epic stuff back around 2000 or so and IIRC he had not only marines (both imperial and chaos) and guard but also eldar, nids and, orcs. So I don't see why people are saying that there were no xenos.
As a side note I bet that GW still has the molds for those armies so it shouldn't be that much of a problem to get them into production.
There wasn't any Xenos in Epic when it launched, because it was a HH game. They were added and the setting shifted to 40k later on. This was a long time before the year 2000.
Given the scale will be different from AT they won't be reusing any of the Epic 40,000 models I think, though Epic 40,000 did have quite wacky internal scale so you could probably get away with the odd unit (Dreads were huge for example).
Leo_the_Rat wrote: My friend had a lot of epic stuff back around 2000 or so and IIRC he had not only marines (both imperial and chaos) and guard but also eldar, nids and, orcs. So I don't see why people are saying that there were no xenos.
As a side note I bet that GW still has the molds for those armies so it shouldn't be that much of a problem to get them into production.
There wasn't any Xenos in Epic when it launched, because it was a HH game. They were added and the setting shifted to 40k later on. This was a long time before the year 2000.
Given the scale will be different from AT they won't be reusing any of the Epic 40,000 models I think, though Epic 40,000 did have quite wacky internal scale so you could probably get away with the odd unit (Dreads were huge for example).
If they orient themselves more towards AT/AI scale that's about the right size to do a lot of units by doing a general 'hull' sprue for e.g. Rhinos and having the turrets and stuff as add-on pieces. There are only a handful of non-superheavy SM tank hulls in HH, depending on how you packed them you could get by with a handful of boxes and several upgrade packs.
gorgon wrote:My position regarding Epic continues to be that I don't understand why GW would be keen to jump back into the 6mm tank and infantry space. Their competitive advantage is with bigger kits. There are plenty of third-party sculpts and 3D print designs available for the smaller units that look like their 28mm counterparts with a very good level of detail.
There's a pile of ashes and melted plastic that used to be a dark elf army, somewhere, that demonstrates how allergic some people can be to the air outside the protective GW bubble.
If GW release a new edition of epic, the playerbase will spike. At least until they're sat there with their working rules and complete armies and decide it's 'unsupported' again.
Lets not forget Epic 40K in part died because GW killed it within a year; meanwhlie once they brought it back it was under Forgeworld mail order only and, like BFG, once it was out of GW's system and in FW of that era it was very hidden and far less marketed.
GW today has more of a handle on specialist games and I think they've more of a view that its better for them to spread their range wider and hold more of the market than it is to have everything profit to maximum value. Which I think historically was always the problem with specialist games - they never outsold or came close to 40K/Old World/LotR.
The last two big edition updates for 40k 9th and AOS 3rd were both announced in May, however these were both during the peak of covid release schedule disruption.
40k 8th edition was first confirmed at Adepticon in late March 2017 which is probably more 'normal'. However details for that were kept fairly light until around a month later. I'm not expecting any major official details on 10E until Warhammerfest, but we should hear something next week.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: My friend had a lot of epic stuff back around 2000 or so and IIRC he had not only marines (both imperial and chaos) and guard but also eldar, nids and, orcs. So I don't see why people are saying that there were no xenos.
The very first edition of Epic: Space Marine in 1989 came with 64 identical marine infantry stands & 48 tanks, and continued the Horus Heresy setting from the original Titanicus game.
Then in 1991 they re-released the starter box under the same name, but threw in a plastic Warlord titan and replaced some of the space marines with new orks & eldar. After that GW started expanding the Epic model range for all factions, with expansion boxes covering Imperial Guard, Orks, Eldar, Chaos, Squats, and eventually Tyranids.
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Overread wrote: Lets not forget Epic 40K in part died because GW killed it within a year; meanwhlie once they brought it back it was under Forgeworld mail order only and, like BFG, once it was out of GW's system and in FW of that era it was very hidden and far less marketed.
GW today has more of a handle on specialist games and I think they've more of a view that its better for them to spread their range wider and hold more of the market than it is to have everything profit to maximum value. Which I think historically was always the problem with specialist games - they never outsold or came close to 40K/Old World/LotR.
While not about Epic specifically, these articles explore the behind-the-scenes stories of how & why GW shifted away from specialist games in the late 90's. Definitely worth a read.
Overread wrote: Lets not forget Epic 40K in part died because GW killed it within a year; meanwhlie once they brought it back it was under Forgeworld mail order only and, like BFG, once it was out of GW's system and in FW of that era it was very hidden and far less marketed.
GW today has more of a handle on specialist games and I think they've more of a view that its better for them to spread their range wider and hold more of the market than it is to have everything profit to maximum value. Which I think historically was always the problem with specialist games - they never outsold or came close to 40K/Old World/LotR.
And despite all those handicaps it sold very well exceeding by far GW's expectations.
GW does it right and the demand is there. Of course whether GW does it right is another thing. Bad rules and too expensive is always possibility with GW.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Still makes sense that it was dangerous at first, but they have refined the process as they learned from early attempts.
Killing the patient to spark the Furnace is literally part of the process. It's not dangerous because they weren't used to doing it, it's dangerous because there's a chance the patient won't come back.
gorgon wrote:My position regarding Epic continues to be that I don't understand why GW would be keen to jump back into the 6mm tank and infantry space. Their competitive advantage is with bigger kits. There are plenty of third-party sculpts and 3D print designs available for the smaller units that look like their 28mm counterparts with a very good level of detail.
There's a pile of ashes and melted plastic that used to be a dark elf army, somewhere, that demonstrates how allergic some people can be to the air outside the protective GW bubble.
If GW release a new edition of epic, the playerbase will spike. At least until they're sat there with their working rules and complete armies and decide it's 'unsupported' again.
Will it though? If it's 30K-based and just adds some ground forces to the existing Titan and Imperial plane kits? I'm just not sure and I'm skeptical about some of the dot connection going on here. Seems like the same "Epic when?" that some corners of the fan base have shouted since AT was released.
But what do I know? Maybe there'll be a huge new Epic game announced, complete with a model of the Lion standing on top of an Imperator Titan. (The 40K Lion will be riding a plastic Thunderhawk like a surfboard, I'm sure.)
tneva82 wrote: You don't get epic with xenos etc if you don"t start somewhere...
Epic didn't start originally with every faction originally either. Did players get dumber since then if it can't work now?
Depends which Epic. Epic 40K got Xenos pretty fast. The Titan Legions boxed set I got was Orks VS Imperials. So we are going WAY back to Epic or AT without Xenos.
now it CAN work - AT is already doing it right now. However I would wager that without Xenos and Chaos, the mirror-match element does have some detriment to sales and interest because you're just having constant mirror matches. Also don't forget the game is so much bigger than it was 30 years ago. There are whole chunks of the playerbase who have no interest in Imperial/Marine content, but they will lap up Necrons, Tau, Tyranids, Eldar and such.
Having zero Xenos/Chaos is cutting GW out of big chunks of the market. Plus those Imperial/Marine players 100% love having to something else to fight against and more interested people to play with.
tneva82 wrote: You don't get epic with xenos etc if you don"t start somewhere...
Epic didn't start originally with every faction originally either. Did players get dumber since then if it can't work now?
Depends which Epic. Epic 40K got Xenos pretty fast. The Titan Legions boxed set I got was Orks VS Imperials. So we are going WAY back to Epic or AT without Xenos.
now it CAN work - AT is already doing it right now. However I would wager that without Xenos and Chaos, the mirror-match element does have some detriment to sales and interest because you're just having constant mirror matches. Also don't forget the game is so much bigger than it was 30 years ago. There are whole chunks of the playerbase who have no interest in Imperial/Marine content, but they will lap up Necrons, Tau, Tyranids, Eldar and such.
Having zero Xenos/Chaos is cutting GW out of big chunks of the market. Plus those Imperial/Marine players 100% love having to something else to fight against and more interested people to play with.
Yeah, original Epic from back before the Worldwide Web when GW was mostly making metal miniatures and probably had 200 employees worldwide. Expectations change, and they certainly didn't go that route in the '90s with Epic 40K like you said.
They can do it and they'll get sales, just like AT. But I'm pretty confident that it'd hold sales back...also like AT. GW did a nice job making the game not feel like a mirror match everytime you play. But it is one set of models. And there are clearly folks who are vocal about only being interested in their fave xenos faction OR just interested in playing ANYTHING other than Imperials. It's a valid viewpoint. Go down the list of Specialist Games and look for anything other than AT that only has one model range. Even AI has multiple ranges/factions.
But I'm not going to argue this anymore...it's pointless. Things will be what they will be.
There have been xenos titans almost from the start in December of 1988 even though it was originally set in the Heresy
White Dwarf 108 Adeptus Titanicus 1st edition announced
White Dwarf 109 warhound and reaver titans
White Dwarf 110 Eldar phantom titans
White Dwarf 116 Ork gargants
gorgon wrote:Seems like the same "Epic when?" that some corners of the fan base have shouted since AT was released.
I'm happy enough with 'Epic then', TBH, but I still think overall interest in Epic is going to rise if GW gives it an air of respectable officiality again.
Mildly interested to find out if proxy producers would see any sales upticks as a result, and if they'd provide that insight. Rising tides and all that.
gorgon wrote:But I'm not going to argue this anymore...it's pointless.
Well I'm wondering how a topic for an event still a week away is up to five pages already, so no need to feel especially superfluous.
Smaug wrote:There have been xenos titans almost from the start in December of 1988 even though it was originally set in the Heresy
...
White Dwarf 110 Eldar phantom titans
Funny, Dave Gallagher was posting something possibly relating to that on his instas.
Yeah, original Epic from back before the Worldwide Web when GW was mostly making metal miniatures and probably had 200 employees worldwide. Expectations change, and they certainly didn't go that route in the '90s with Epic 40K like you said.
Duh. During epic40k they had models ready...
Doing same now from scratch? That's huge # of SKU's you expect them to release in brand new plastic right away? When game has got more factions and more units they need to cover and have switched from metal away(which makes adding stuff to range more expensive for game)? Yeah right.
It's hardly same as "let's take sprues we have already in production and add couple new plastic sprue and then some lot cheaper metal sku's and release game" to "let's produce about 100 new plastic sprue as a bare minimum from scratch and release a game".
You are suggesting turning more support to epic than 40k marines included has combined...Which is what they would need to do to provide full game right off the bat.
Or they could do like how they originally did. Little bit at a time. Which is still going to need to be faster pace than originally to match up seeing # of factions and # of units in game has exploded dramatically. There were no sicarans, skorpions, doomhammers, kratos, multiple dreadnought variants etc back in the day.
If, and it is an if, they stick to the Original Epic Strategy? Most forces, if not all, can get their infantry done and dusted in just a couple of boxes. One for Line or Standard infantry equivalents, one for background rarer infantry etc.
As ever I’d love to see the cards based army selection of 2nd Ed Space Marine return. One card - One Blister when it comes to tanks and that.
If, and it is an if, they stick to the Original Epic Strategy? Most forces, if not all, can get their infantry done and dusted in just a couple of boxes. One for Line or Standard infantry equivalents, one for background rarer infantry etc.
As ever I’d love to see the cards based army selection of 2nd Ed Space Marine return. One card - One Blister when it comes to tanks and that.
And specialist games have been budgeted around one sprue per quarter generally. A bit more when they start out, or less as other specialist games need the production/release slots. And the increased scale/detail means a lot less models can fit per sprue.
I’m surprised this hasn’t been posted (unless I missed it). Nid symbol on the left so definitely looks like some kind of tease at least for 10th. I thought this would be more wrapping up Arks of Omen and 10th later but.
ImAGeek wrote: I’m surprised this hasn’t been posted (unless I missed it). Nid symbol on the left so definitely looks like some kind of tease at least for 10th. I thought this would be more wrapping up Arks of Omen and 10th later but.
The 9th edition teaser and animated trailer where 2 weeks apart so would be the same for 10th if they show it next week but since the Lion basically has to be shown here and Dante was also probably meant for Adepticon I don't know if that wouldn't have been a bit much? After all there is still AoS/Underworlds/HH/KillTeam so if they actually had all of this planned and the other 4 system don't just get a tiny teaser it would actually match GWs exaggerated marketing for once
tneva82 wrote: Doing same now from scratch? That's huge # of SKU's you expect them to release in brand new plastic right away? When game has got more factions and more units they need to cover and have switched from metal away(which makes adding stuff to range more expensive for game)? Yeah right.
It's hardly same as "let's take sprues we have already in production and add couple new plastic sprue and then some lot cheaper metal sku's and release game" to "let's produce about 100 new plastic sprue as a bare minimum from scratch and release a game".
You are suggesting turning more support to epic than 40k marines included has combined...Which is what they would need to do to provide full game right off the bat.
Here's my last word on this.
If you actually read my posts, you'd see that I'm not actually making any demands on GW. I'm not sure why you're so intent on misrepresenting me.
So I'll lay this out very simply -- I'm skeptical that Epic will return in any form because a very limited game will have very limited appeal, while a full Epic relaunch would be almost like launching another core game (which it basically was back in the day). And the middle path -- slowplaying a build from limited monofaction to full ranges and multiple factions seems like it'd be such a long, drawn-out affair that they'd lose the attention of customers.
None of these options look like compelling business opportunities TO ME compared to other things they could be working on...so I'm skeptical about any kind of Epic return. But it all really depends on GW's business plan. A limited product may meet their goals. Or maybe they're on board with really blowing out Epic. I certainly didn't see HH getting this many plastic kits. GW sometimes surprises us. So as I said, whatever will be will be.
Epic could be pretty playable with as little as 1 sprue per faction if they settled for detail on about the same level as old sprues. With modern tooling it wouldn't be unthinkable to cram pretty much 1 of every unit on the same sprue. Tho judging from AI, a modern 8mm Rhino will probably come in 12 parts and take up half a sprue for some reason.
lord_blackfang wrote: Epic could be pretty playable with as little as 1 sprue per faction if they settled for detail on about the same level as old sprues. With modern tooling it wouldn't be unthinkable to cram pretty much 1 of every unit on the same sprue. Tho judging from AI, a modern 8mm Rhino will probably come in 12 parts and take up half a sprue for some reason.
Out of curiosity I did a quick check:
An old Epic Rhino was around 21 x 14 x 10mm.
A new Deimos Rhino made at 25% scale like the other AT/AI models would be 30 x 20 x 15mm, so approximately 50% bigger.
That's certainly large enough for increased detail and probably multiple parts. I could even see them designing the model in a similar way to the HH vehicles, where the top hatch piece could be swapped out to become a predator, razorback, or whirlwind instead.
The issue with the epic rumor is that aeronautica did poorly, and titanicus is not a best seller. Moreover, 3d printing cuts into this type of stuff. I have seen lots of it. User created stuff. Epic, and bfg. Given that the game is not established, there is little to curb the 3d prints, such as tournaments, or a larger scene in which the 3d prints are frowned upon.
The 3D print isn't an issue though. The reason there's no formal events is because there's no formal support. If GW gave it formal support that means games in their stores; events with their sponsoring/support and such.
Ergo if they build it those things would come along just like in the other markets.
Just look at Bloodbowl. When GW relaunched it there were several competing 3rd parties making and selling physical models (way bigger market than STLs) and having run successful big funding Kickstarters.
That didn't stop GW pushing back into the market they'd created, if anything it meant when GW did it there was a dedicated fanbase already fired up for new GW models and new players and all.
It's tarot card XX and everything isn't as it seems. Codex Alpha Legion confirmed?
I'd challenge the idea that if it relates to the Great Game, it has to revolve around a Chaos god like that. Tyranids mass nomming mortal followers without feeding the Chaos Gods and the Shadow in the Warp calming conflict because it hampers travel is another way of dousing the fires of ambition the Great Game revolves around. Given what we have all but confirmed about the Tyranids' role as 10th ed poster children, that could plausibly be a "move over, Chaos, we've got bigger problems now" message to wrap up the Chaos focused Arks arc and move on to the 10th ed story arc.
Geifer wrote: It's tarot card XX and everything isn't as it seems. Codex Alpha Legion confirmed?
I'd challenge the idea that if it relates to the Great Game, it has to revolve around a Chaos god like that. Tyranids mass nomming mortal followers without feeding the Chaos Gods and the Shadow in the Warp calming conflict because it hampers travel is another way of dousing the fires of ambition the Great Game revolves around. Given what we have all but confirmed about the Tyranids' role as 10th ed poster children, that could plausibly be a "move over, Chaos, we've got bigger problems now" message to wrap up the Chaos focused Arks arc and move on to the 10th ed story arc.
That would lean more on the 'Destiny sickens' part - there was supposed to be another Chaos God, but the 'nids ate them. Possible, possible.
I think the other cards for book 5 point more into the direction of another god, but they're so vague that they could basically be made to fit everything. Perhaps Vashtorr activates the Emperor's spare second Astronomican and thus attracts even more Tyranids to the Galaxy or something like that, prophecies are only obvious after the fact.
Galaxy inversed - De Galaxis Profundi Invertus - But everything will change. Reality bleeds. Destiny sickens. The Galaxy grows dark, and darker still.
That sounds like the Imperium Nihilus might be falling to Chaos completely.
GW is making the Dornian Hersey a reality, the universe is flipping
Or the good guys ar epushing back and the eye of terror is shrinking, just in time for the Tyranids to come to brunch.
It is of obvious significance that this last card -?- mirrors the first, which was 'Galaxy' with the text
'The Galaxy burns in the fire of ambition. Another round of the great game begins'.
You can read XX's text almost like an answer to that:
'But everything will change. Reality bleeds. Destiny sickens. The Galaxy grows dark, and darker still.'
What i'm getting at is that there's pretty much only one way to actually change the Great Game: add a new Warp God, or kill an existing one...
Or shift the dynamic of the material universe enough that the games rules change. Nids and crons are the 2 things that might force chaos and the imperium into unity.
If all is eaten as biomass there is no warp presence/souls/food for the gods, with that they too would die.
spaceelf wrote: The issue with the epic rumor is that aeronautica did poorly, and titanicus is not a best seller. Moreover, 3d printing cuts into this type of stuff. I have seen lots of it. User created stuff. Epic, and bfg. Given that the game is not established, there is little to curb the 3d prints, such as tournaments, or a larger scene in which the 3d prints are frowned upon.
Warlord titan of course did sell better than pretty much everything
Or shift the dynamic of the material universe enough that the games rules change. Nids and crons are the 2 things that might force chaos and the imperium into unity.
If all is eaten as biomass there is no warp presence/souls/food for the gods, with that they too would die.
Question: is anyone aware of GW officially saying that the Tarot Cards will end with XX? So far we had 4 per book and we know that they are printing 5 books, but there is that 6th story that's going to be serialized in White Dwarf - i'd wager it's possible that that will get cards as well.
tneva82 wrote: Doing same now from scratch? That's huge # of SKU's you expect them to release in brand new plastic right away? When game has got more factions and more units they need to cover and have switched from metal away(which makes adding stuff to range more expensive for game)? Yeah right.
It's hardly same as "let's take sprues we have already in production and add couple new plastic sprue and then some lot cheaper metal sku's and release game" to "let's produce about 100 new plastic sprue as a bare minimum from scratch and release a game".
You are suggesting turning more support to epic than 40k marines included has combined...Which is what they would need to do to provide full game right off the bat.
Here's my last word on this.
If you actually read my posts, you'd see that I'm not actually making any demands on GW. I'm not sure why you're so intent on misrepresenting me.
So I'll lay this out very simply -- I'm skeptical that Epic will return in any form because a very limited game will have very limited appeal, while a full Epic relaunch would be almost like launching another core game (which it basically was back in the day). And the middle path -- slowplaying a build from limited monofaction to full ranges and multiple factions seems like it'd be such a long, drawn-out affair that they'd lose the attention of customers.
None of these options look like compelling business opportunities TO ME compared to other things they could be working on...so I'm skeptical about any kind of Epic return. But it all really depends on GW's business plan. A limited product may meet their goals. Or maybe they're on board with really blowing out Epic. I certainly didn't see HH getting this many plastic kits. GW sometimes surprises us. So as I said, whatever will be will be.
Epic has big potential as it has shown every time gw sells it. Not releasing it means gw is missing money they could be raking in.
But full release just doesn't make any businness sense unless gw is in business of donating cash for charity.
Doing it like they did originally meanwhile works and is even more essential now than then.
Starting epic step by step is how gw makes crapload of money. Trying everything at once would require so much production either they need to stop 40k/aos/hh production for years or multiply their staff and equipment.
While Epic HH may well be happening, I very much doubt it's coming before 40k 10E. Most likely we get that announcement next week and Epic is saved for later in the year.
RazorEdge wrote: The latest Rumors actual said "release at the End of the Year".
Also in rumors epic seems to alternate with the old world with one of the two coming at the end of the year and the other in 2024 but personally if one of them comes this year Think it will be Epic
RazorEdge wrote: The latest Rumors actual said "release at the End of the Year".
Also in rumors epic seems to alternate with the old world with one of the two coming at the end of the year and the other in 2024 but personally if one of them comes this year Think it will be Epic
At this point there have been numerous WarCom articles about the Old World. 0 about Epic.
The only way Epic comes first is if it is predominantly plastic (Old world could still be predominantly resin if under FW mainly - who knows at this point) and is a joint project between GW and FW like age of darkness and Necromunda.
Be a bit of a kick in the teeth for those excited about the Old World to have another game system requiring quite massive FW support (presumably anyway) before it.
At this point there have been numerous WarCom articles about the Old World. 0 about Epic.
The only way Epic comes first is if it is predominantly plastic (Old world could still be predominantly resin if under FW mainly - who knows at this point) and is a joint project between GW and FW like age of darkness and Necromunda.
Be a bit of a kick in the teeth for those excited about the Old World to have another game system requiring quite massive FW support (presumably anyway) before it.
That's just an argument in favour of GW going back to their old marketing plan of revealing new stuff the same month it goes on sale. Can't get upset about something you never knew about.
Titanicus was announced early and delayed beyond the expected release date because they decided to produce the models in plastic instead of resin. Perhaps TOW is taking so long for a similar reason?
At this point there have been numerous WarCom articles about the Old World. 0 about Epic.
The only way Epic comes first is if it is predominantly plastic (Old world could still be predominantly resin if under FW mainly - who knows at this point) and is a joint project between GW and FW like age of darkness and Necromunda.
Be a bit of a kick in the teeth for those excited about the Old World to have another game system requiring quite massive FW support (presumably anyway) before it.
That's just an argument in favour of GW going back to their old marketing plan of revealing new stuff the same month it goes on sale. Can't get upset about something you never knew about.
Titanicus was announced early and delayed beyond the expected release date because they decided to produce the models in plastic instead of resin. Perhaps TOW is taking so long for a similar reason?
The Old World was an exception where GW were open that it would be at least s 3-5 year period before it would be release ready; and that was before a global pandemic.
At this point there have been numerous WarCom articles about the Old World. 0 about Epic.
The only way Epic comes first is if it is predominantly plastic (Old world could still be predominantly resin if under FW mainly - who knows at this point) and is a joint project between GW and FW like age of darkness and Necromunda.
Be a bit of a kick in the teeth for those excited about the Old World to have another game system requiring quite massive FW support (presumably anyway) before it.
That's just an argument in favour of GW going back to their old marketing plan of revealing new stuff the same month it goes on sale. Can't get upset about something you never knew about.
Titanicus was announced early and delayed beyond the expected release date because they decided to produce the models in plastic instead of resin. Perhaps TOW is taking so long for a similar reason?
The Old World was an exception where GW were open that it would be at least s 3-5 year period before it would be release ready; and that was before a global pandemic.
The Old World being revealed at all was an anomaly compared to the way that GW works with all its other releases, ideally as a business they aim to make the "hype" phase with the "ability to open wallet and buy the thing" fairly close together so people don't lose interest in the interim.
The exceptional circumstance which forced their hand was Kings of War skyrocketing in popularity ever since The End Times. The Old World announcement came out days after the announcement of Kings of War 3rd edition. I've been to KoW tournaments, 200 players is not uncommon for the larger events, a lot of them veterans of competitive play in WHFB, having both KoW and WHFB 6th edition written by Alessio Cavatore helped make the transition easier. Not sure how much of that playerbase will want to go back after TOW drops, a lot depends on the quality and balance of the ruleset.
There is a preference for rulesets which are not overly complex or verbose with the core rules, but allow for great tactical depth. Less "gotcha" combos and more about flanking, manoeuvres, screening with chaff, bait-and-switch. Both 6th and KoW do this well, albeit in very different ways.
As for Epic, I played Epic: Armageddon and found it to be really awesome, great clean ruleset that played fantastically well without overcomplication and really got across the feel of the setting, you had titans with their shields duking it out while a massive war raged at their feet, combined with fast units really being able to make grand sweeping movements due to the scale of the game. I'd definitely be interested in a relaunch if they get it right and don't bloat the rules or add tactics cards etc.
In short, I put good odds on Epic before TOW, it has had stealth release of a lot of the model range in the form of Aeronautica Imperialis and Adeptus Titanicus, that's how they've slowly built up the capticaity for the huge model range that would be required to modernise it. Just tanks and infantry left and it's done, arguably the easiest things to get right since the 28mm 3d models are already there for reference, or simple downscale + adjustment to remove certain details and exaggerate others.
TBH I would love a new real Epic 40k game, as in small scale figures for large battles, and 40k proper going back to the "correct" scale that it was in 2nd/early 3rd edition. 40k's biggest issue has been that it's trying to be everything from a small scale game to a large scale game, and failing at everything because you need two different sets of rules for that.
Between 40k, Epic, Kill team and BFG we would once again have the golden age of 40k campaigning, where you could literally fight a war on all scales.
40K: The Lion returns...yawn. Seriously, I'm happy for DA players, but tired of hearing about him and thus hope you get your wish on Wednesday so that you're indeed happy - even have a party - and we can then move on. That said, if El'Jonson is wearing new Deathwing terminator armour then I'll be hosting your party, and will provide balloons, m&ms and pringles...
Kill Team: Terminators vs Lictors. Scorpions and Banshees are waaaaaaaaaay over due.
Horus Heresy: Market research has revealed unprecedented customer demand for a new tank.
AOS: Who hasn't had their battletome yet? Aside from missing the Warscroll pack for Slaves To Darkness, I'm good.
Underworlds: Tzeentch shenanigans in a Silver Tower. I'd be uber happy with this!
Surprises: some crap on Warhammer+...
Warhammer Community: £65 starter set for Warcry, that isn't worth mentioning at Adepticon because it's a cut-down version of the 2nd edition launch box.
I'm still so tired of this release something every week crap. It makes it incredibly hard to even process what's coming out because it's just a constant churn. You can barely even plan what to do when every week something interesting is coming
lord_blackfang wrote: There is a rumour of Kill Team Votann vs Beastmen, which seems like utter nonsense for the final chapter of Gallowdark to me.
Any reason? Beastmen assumingly would represent chaos, who are the driving force behind the need to claim the arks/hulks.
I was hoping the name Gallowfall would imply a fall from grace. Both of them have fallen to the corruption of mutation. Just wanted a better tie in to Chaos and AoO.
Sotahullu wrote: I know it will never happen but Emperor worshipping beastmen would raise my interest.
They worship Him as the Great Shepherd, herding them into the great pens of His starships to be set upon the heretics.
Hmmm...an Order of the Sisters of Battle who lead the Redeemed Kindred into battle, pray for their souls, and teach them that while they have been cursed by the warp, their sins can be forgiven by sacrifice to The Emperor.
Sotahullu wrote: I know it will never happen but Emperor worshipping beastmen would raise my interest.
They worship Him as the Great Shepherd, herding them into the great pens of His starships to be set upon the heretics.
Hmmm...an Order of the Sisters of Battle who lead the Redeemed Kindred into battle, pray for their souls, and teach them that while they have been cursed by the warp, their sins can be forgiven by sacrifice to The Emperor.
I'm trying to find a single word in that sentence that isn't heresy but I'm coming up empty.
SamusDrake wrote: I knew it! The Emperor was Doctor Moreau all along!
Given the potential implications of Kin Cloneskeins, it is entirely possible some Dr Moreau type did once create the Beastmen Abhuman species!
AFAIK it's canon that during the DAOT humanity went so far with gene-modding itself that 'baseline' humans were close to eradicated, and the Emperor had to reconstruct them in a fashion. That's also a finer point of the imperial anti-mutant and anti-transhuman stance: unique or 'boutique' gene-mods and surgical modification is generally considered no big deal and orthodox, but the line is drawn at making 'new men' that can reproduce independently, i.e. at permanently altering humanity.
SamusDrake wrote: I knew it! The Emperor was Doctor Moreau all along!
Given the potential implications of Kin Cloneskeins, it is entirely possible some Dr Moreau type did once create the Beastmen Abhuman species!
AFAIK it's canon that during the DAOT humanity went so far with gene-modding itself that 'baseline' humans were close to eradicated, and the Emperor had to reconstruct them in a fashion. That's also a finer point of the imperial anti-mutant and anti-transhuman stance: unique or 'boutique' gene-mods and surgical modification is generally considered no big deal and orthodox, but the line is drawn at making 'new men' that can reproduce independently, i.e. at permanently altering humanity.
Near the end of the Dron Primarch book echoes this when he offers to help undo the modifications on the Unseen.
SamusDrake wrote: I knew it! The Emperor was Doctor Moreau all along!
Given the potential implications of Kin Cloneskeins, it is entirely possible some Dr Moreau type did once create the Beastmen Abhuman species!
AFAIK it's canon that during the DAOT humanity went so far with gene-modding itself that 'baseline' humans were close to eradicated, and the Emperor had to reconstruct them in a fashion. That's also a finer point of the imperial anti-mutant and anti-transhuman stance: unique or 'boutique' gene-mods and surgical modification is generally considered no big deal and orthodox, but the line is drawn at making 'new men' that can reproduce independently, i.e. at permanently altering humanity.
Near the end of the Dron Primarch book echoes this when he offers to help undo the modifications on the Unseen.
Even in the Grim Darkness of the far future, Harmony Gold holds undue influence.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Post on Instagram for “2 days to go” features a wooden shield, with what looks to be a Sigmarite halo.
Guessing we’re getting more, possibly a full reveal, for Cities of Sigmar, or whatever it’s called. Dawnbringer Crusades.
Valrak said it would be a box reveal in one of his recent videos, he had no idea what it was but apparently someone dumped a Adepticon preview on him and he specifically mentioned that as his first AoS rumour ever.
The 'Sigmarite Halo' is three-quarters of the symbol of the Grand Alliance of Order:
I don't really care if the new Beastmen team in Gallowfall is traitor or imperial, both models look more or less the same to me, just add spikes or aquilas and play em "counts as" in KT21. I've seen so many Firstborn loyalist Space Marine killteams played as "counts-as Legionary".
What I really want to know is what the next extra terrain sprue will contain, the Soulshackle ones were brilliant!
Well not every leak has to be about adepticon. Gw has more releases than adepticon lined up and things are produced well ahead. Quite likely warcry was lined up to be previewed in next event but somebody spoiled it ahead of time
Definitely Tzeentch underworlds. Long overdue, since khornes had three different warbands and the other gods only had one.
The Eyes of the Nine basically used every existing Arcanite unit, so I guess we’ll see some hints about potential future releases. Or maybe the leader will be a Curseling, since a magisters already be done
NH Gunsmith wrote: I would be more inclined to believe it is a Tzeentch warband for Underworlds if it wasn't using the generic Tzeentch Arcanites symbol on the tome.
Almost every warbands teaser has had their unique symbol used somewhere in the teaser.
That is, unless GW considers the generic symbol with a circle around it to be unique enough to be a warband symbol?
They teased that tzeentch familiar and it was on a sculpted base. That pretty much guarantees it’s underworld. Also do those warbands have unique symbols? Warcry has their belt logos but do you mean the unit specific icons on the cards?
NH Gunsmith wrote: I would be more inclined to believe it is a Tzeentch warband for Underworlds if it wasn't using the generic Tzeentch Arcanites symbol on the tome.
Almost every warbands teaser has had their unique symbol used somewhere in the teaser.
That is, unless GW considers the generic symbol with a circle around it to be unique enough to be a warband symbol?
They teased that tzeentch familiar and it was on a sculpted base. That pretty much guarantees it’s underworld. Also do those warbands have unique symbols? Warcry has their belt logos but do you mean the unit specific icons on the cards?
Oh neat! I must have missed the Familiar teaser, yeah, that checks out it is likely Underworlds than. Yeah, most Underworlds warbands have a unique symbol that ties into their faction, but is often different enough so that the warband specific cards are easy to identify. All three Khorne warbands have a symbol that is distinctly Khorne related, but unique.
Edit. Disregard my previous rantings, the Dread Pageant symbol is just the Slaanesh symbols haha. Yeah, I can see that fully being a Tzeentch warband with the knowledge of a Familiar with sculpted base being teased.
II don't love it tbh. I like the breathing bits but the flaired rim, whilst looking okay, is another deviation from the classic sillhouette. Straying into some sort of neo-tokyo looking stuff. Skinny legs, whacky head. Coming hot on the heals of the rocket box launchers, another miss would be disappointing.
It's worth mentioning that there's an antenna behind the helmet. Phobos is the best bet.
This is just art of the Phobos Strike Team variant Infiltrator.
I think it's just generic Space Marine art for the banner.
I doubt it's a tease of the content of the preview.
Spoiler:
Bottom left.
If it's generic Space Marine art, you should have no issue producing a copy of it. If it is from anywhere? It's probably KT: Moroch...which I don't own. The closest art I can find is the Vanguard Marines codex cover, but that lacks the extra plating of that specific model, which is the demolitions specialist.
It's weirdly specific "generic Space Marine art" if that's the case.
If it's generic Space Marine art, you should have no issue producing a copy of it. If it is from anywhere? It's probably KT: Moroch...which I don't own. The closest art I can find is the Vanguard Marines codex cover, but that lacks the extra plating of that specific model, which is the demolitions specialist.
It's weirdly specific "generic Space Marine art" if that's the case.
For as much as I have no interest in 40k as a whole any more, I'm quietly excited about what treatment they'll give the Lion. Where once it would have been a make-or-break situation for me, now what they do with him lore-wise also doesn't bother me anymore as they jumped the shark ages ago on that account. But what I would like to see though, is that he wakes up and is pissed off. Where as Guilliman returned and set about putting the Imperium to rights, I want the Lion to just get up and start working his way through the list of names who need a proper spanking.
No talk. No bureaucracy. Just action.
If it's generic Space Marine art, you should have no issue producing a copy of it. If it is from anywhere? It's probably KT: Moroch...which I don't own. The closest art I can find is the Vanguard Marines codex cover, but that lacks the extra plating of that specific model, which is the demolitions specialist.
It's weirdly specific "generic Space Marine art" if that's the case.
Yup
Spoiler:
Thanks! I figured it was likely there.
Still a weird piece to use as "generic Space Marine art".
If it's an AoS creature, then I think you mean a Pridemane Roarclaw.
Shut up and take my exalt!
I'm excited about the (probable) reveal of The Lion, but I'm also wondering if they are gonna pull a "record scratch" bait-and-switch on us, like the reveal for the new Chaos Knights did. Honestly if we don't get the Lion at this point though, fans are gonna RIOT!
We already have the MOST generic Primarch running around, might as well bring back the second most generic Primarch as well.
Objectively the best though. My favourites are Ferrus, Sanguinius and Jaghatai Khan, but as far as competence goes it's really only those two (Gulliman, Johnson) that could have been alternate candidates for Warmaster (and hence best choice for Regent). Dorn a bit too one-dimensional, the rest of them various levels of deranged. Ignore the disinformation presented in the recent lore installment, Sanguinius lacks the desire which is a disqualifying factor (as seen in Unremembered Empire, the worst HH book I ever read all the way through). That's how my headcanon goes anyway.
Sorry if it's already been guessed but are we thinking Lion's the real 40k reveal tonight and the Terminators are a 'one more thing' teaser at the end for future whatever 10th Edition is?
Prometheum5 wrote: Sorry if it's already been guessed but are we thinking Lion's the real 40k reveal tonight and the Terminators are a 'one more thing' teaser at the end for future whatever 10th Edition is?
Dunno. I feel like staying up for the stream though, kind of looking forward to this reveal for the first time since Indomitus, moreso than the HH reveal even, no idea why. Primarch hype or tiredness I suppose. Sitting through 15 minutes of filler chat at this hour is not an option though, I'll catch it tomorrow instead.
We already have the MOST generic Primarch running around, might as well bring back the second most generic Primarch as well.
Objectively the best though. My favourites are Ferrus, Sanguinius and Jaghatai Khan, but as far as competence goes it's really only those two (Gulliman, Johnson) that could have been alternate candidates for Warmaster (and hence best choice for Regent). Dorn a bit too one-dimensional, the rest of them various levels of deranged. Ignore the disinformation presented in the recent lore installment, Sanguinius lacks the desire which is a disqualifying factor (as seen in Unremembered Empire, the worst HH book I ever read all the way through). That's how my headcanon goes anyway.
"Sanguinius. It should have been him. He has the vision and strength to carry us to victory, and the wisdom to rule once victory is won. For all his aloof coolness, he alone has the Emperor's soul in his blood. Each of us carries part of our father within us, whether it is his hunger for battle, his psychic talent or his determination to succeed. Sanguinius holds it all. It should have been his..."
—Warmaster Horus praises his brother Primarch Sanguinius
If GW *really* wanted to blow minds, that's how they would do it.
They announced 10th indexes are free overhaul of data sheets only six strategyms. You can only be one subtraction at a time so if you are fleshed terrors you don't have to deal with the blood angels rules you just deal with the flesh terrorist rules and vice versa new tyranids Space Marines Terminators can be either first born.
Leadership got inverted so big numbers are worse than small numbers. New objective control stat. Stuff that used to be strategyms is now in the data sheet. All in all new addition looks great
They have dino heads and crocodile heads. What a wonderful kit. So, so, very happy with the Kroxigors. Loved the original kit, didn't like their latter metal replacement ("Disco Dancing Kroxigors" I called them)... and these are ace!
And another Soulblight book.
And the OBR get... a whole new mini. Wow. No archers? Really?
Which they'd use months for the roadmap as opposed to seasons. It confused the crap out of me when they said the Cities of Sigmar were ages away, but then specified Autumn which is just round the corner.
Also, that Squat V Beastmen video had the cringest voice over ever.
