via sources on Faeit212
Here is a round-up / renew of my informations about the release for "Epic Warhammer - The Horus Heresy";
> Release at the End of 2023
> Replacing Aeronautica (Titanicus will stay!)
> Horus Heresy
> Core Units in Plastic (Legiones Astartes First, the rest later)
> Representing of all Space Marine Armours (Mk2 to Mk6, Cataphractii to Indomitus) over Time
> Later Option to expand it into the Great Crusade with Ork and Eldar Armies (possible with a "second Edition" > There exist ideas for a "Man of Iron" Faction and other "unknown" Factions for this Great Crusade second Edition
> There exist enough ideas to make it the biggest "Specialist Game" so far since they started to bring them back in 2016
> With Horus Heresy as their third main System, AT, AI, EW:HH (and later Gothic) will become HH "Sub-systems" (like KT for 40k or Warcry for AoS are)
via sources on Faeit212
more Stuff about Epic;
Game's name will be "Epic Warhanmmer - The Horus Heresy"
Release is planned for the second half 2023.
As a specialist Game, Epic will replace Aeronautica Imperalis' release
slots.
They plan with a four years release schedule for Epic. When the game is
successful; after those four years, they plan a "Second Edition", which
introduces Orks and Eldar as further factions. Can't say if this will then
be 40k or 30k Great Crusade.
Faeit is not very reliable but Valrak's sources proved to be precise in the last months.
I can't believe they would launch two major specialist games in the same year. Assuming both the Old World and Epic are ready it would make much more sense to bring out the old world this year for the anniversary, then save Epic for 2024.
Yeah, sounds like a lot of wishful thinking got crammed there.
Didn't say every unit in every armour so could be some units in mk2, others mk6.
Also doesn'' have to be sprue only mk4. Could be 2-3 armour in same sprue.
Would make it less insane.
Sculpt itself is trivial. Seen mk2-mk6 in 6mm scale already. If 3rd parties can do so can gw. So it's economical feasibility with plastlc but there either different marks for differing units or mix of marks per sprue cuts issues.
Yeah, less but only a little I still think that either bring xenos from the beginning or do not even start. But who knows, maybe I am totally wrong, and it will be able to survive as HH only? Personally pure HH Epic has little value for me as I want to bring real Tyranids swarms into play.
I don't really know how popular this version of Epic is going to be, if it is only going to involve Horus Heresy armies.
Like to me, the fun about Epic is big Mechs fighting against each other. To just focus on more Imperial Titans feels like shooting yourself in the foot.
I’d love a properly realised Epic 40K game, the possibilities of doing huge campaigns that encompass battles on every scale from huge conflagrations in epic to smaller pinpointed actions in regular 40K to the nitty gritty commando or boarding missions in Kill team.
I don't mind them playing it safe and sticking with HH to get started. My main concern is seeing how they well GW will balance between AT and Epic, both in terms of new releases and rules.
Will we still get any new titans, or will new releases focus on tanks & infantry for the next few years? I'd hope they at least get around to doing the Rapier scout titans, as they would now be more relevant in a game with smaller targets.
Will the rules for titans in new Epic still have the same level of 'crunch' as AT or the original Epic, or will they be simplified down to Epic 40,000 levels? Hopefully titan terminals can be made to work in both.
General Kroll wrote: I’d love a properly realised Epic 40K game, the possibilities of doing huge campaigns that encompass battles on every scale from huge conflagrations in epic to smaller pinpointed actions in regular 40K to the nitty gritty commando or boarding missions in Kill team.
Yes please.
My one wish for Games Workshop to do in the future is to do another Eye of Terror Global Campaign that encompasses all of the games. Big battles with Apocalypse, Aironautica and Titanicus, Normal battles with 40k. Smaller operation with Kill Team and even Hive skirmishes with necromunda Proxies.
Segersgia wrote: I don't really know how popular this version of Epic is going to be, if it is only going to involve Horus Heresy armies.
Like to me, the fun about Epic is big Mechs fighting against each other. To just focus on more Imperial Titans feels like shooting yourself in the foot.
I don't really know how popular this version of Epic is going to be, if it is only going to involve Horus Heresy armies.
Like to me, the fun about Epic is big Mechs fighting against each other. To just focus on more Imperial Titans feels like shooting yourself in the foot.
Just give me my Epic scale Gorkanaut, damn you.
if you want this your better play titanicus epic is all about battle,s with huge army's that can include titans but is more about tanks and infantrie so for the orks that would mean stompas an battlewagon and big mobs of infantry and they can be supported with titans
skeleton wrote: I don't really know how popular this version of Epic is going to be, if it is only going to involve Horus Heresy armies.
Like to me, the fun about Epic is big Mechs fighting against each other. To just focus on more Imperial Titans feels like shooting yourself in the foot.
Just give me my Epic scale Gorkanaut, damn you.
if you want this your better play titanicus epic is all about battle,s with huge army's that can include titans but is more about tanks and infantrie so for the orks that would mean stompas an battlewagon and big mobs of infantry and they can be supported with titans
Agreed. I would prefer having some non-mirror matches so Eldar or Orks or Tyranids. So I was disappointed with how Adeptus Titanicus just kept doing the same Titans and Imperial vs. Chaos matches. My wallet has remained closed. I'm sure I am not the only one that has asked for xenos Titan equivalents. I want to use my old Phantom Titan or Warlock Titan (or have updated new models) or have Imperial Titan vs. Tyranid Bio-Titan and re-enact the fall of Gryphonne IV. GW leaving money on the table here by ignoring.
If true, I can't wait. I'm already clearing the decks and finishing my Aeronautica and Titanicus backlog. May also sell off reams of 30k to get ready for this...
I really don't like the idea of it being Horus Heresy focused. It feels very limiting to have the game be focused on Space Marines, both with how nearly everyone else would have to miss out and how there wouldn't be too much to differentiate them. It's not like they could really offer upgrade packs and such, there are a few legion specific units but for the most part it'll be similar looking stuff.
Which is also why those Faeit rumours just sound like nonsense. It's a pretty small scale game...so they're going to offer different kits that are slight variations of armour pattern? Just who's going to scrutinize them closely enough to even properly tell what armour pattern these several mm tall miniatures are let alone that being one of the marketing/customization aspects of the whole thing?They're going to add Men of Iron...during the Great Crusade? Something that, unless i've completely missed something, had nothing to do with the Great Crusade?
Doesn't seem believable in the slightest. Whens the last time Faeit212 actually got anything right, though? Everything I can remember reading from them turned out to be fake (unless it was posted elsewhere first).
Mentlegen324 wrote: I really don't like the idea of it being Horus Heresy focused. It feels very limiting to have the game be focused on Space Marines, both with how nearly everyone else would have to miss out and how there wouldn't be too much to differentiate them. It's not like they could really offer upgrade packs and such, there are a few legion specific units but for the most part it'll be similar looking stuff.
Which is also why those Faeit rumours just sound like nonsense. It's a pretty small scale game...so they're going to offer different kits that are slight variations of armour pattern? Just who's going to scrutinize them closely enough to even properly tell what armour pattern these several mm tall miniatures are let alone that being one of the marketing/customization aspects of the whole thing?They're going to add Men of Iron...during the Great Crusade? Something that, unless i've completely missed something, had nothing to do with the Great Crusade?
Doesn't seem believable in the slightest. Whens the last time Faeit212 actually got anything right, though? Everything I can remember reading from them turned out to be fake (unless it was posted elsewhere first).
But for Epic, being HH focused does not mean it has to be SM-focused, it basically means you'll get the Imperial/Mechanicum roster and Demons before you'll get Xenos, but that includes Imperial Army/Guard, Mechanicum war machines, random stuff like Custodes, SoS and so on, Demon Engines and Demons, all in all between 6-8 visually distinct forces of which Marines are just one part. Legion-specific stuff could be as limited as a single box or clampack per, which still is a lot, but not a thing that defines the whole game for years...
That being said, the Faeit212 stuff is obviously heavily mixed with wishlisting and probably totally bunk anyway.
Which is also why those Faeit rumours just sound like nonsense. It's a pretty small scale game...so they're going to offer different kits that are slight variations of armour pattern? Just who's going to scrutinize them closely enough to even properly tell what armour pattern these several mm tall miniatures are let alone that being one of the marketing/customization aspects of the whole thing?
Not that I particularly believe Faeit, but it's true that when the Adeptus Titanicus was being designed one of the specific reasons the current scale was picked was that it still allowed players to distuinish between different marks of marine armour.
This was a quote of from people speaking to the game designers at a GW event in 2016: "They decided on this scale after 3D printing a Marine, Dread, Leman Russ, Warlord and a Mastodon in three different scales ... you could see the details to the point of telling different armour marks apart but didn’t make the Titans too big."
hm, are these really new rumours? That sounds like the stuff that came up before the Adepticon; Unfortunately, contrary to the rumours, there was no announcement there
Considering the big threat in the 10th edition trailer is the Tyranids and the 4th Tyrannic War, I would have thought the natural would have been to do Epic Tyranids vs. Imperium. Then other factions too as the Tyranids sweep over and attack everyone.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I really don't like the idea of it being Horus Heresy focused. It feels very limiting to have the game be focused on Space Marines, both with how nearly everyone else would have to miss out and how there wouldn't be too much to differentiate them. It's not like they could really offer upgrade packs and such, there are a few legion specific units but for the most part it'll be similar looking stuff.
Which is also why those Faeit rumours just sound like nonsense. It's a pretty small scale game...so they're going to offer different kits that are slight variations of armour pattern? Just who's going to scrutinize them closely enough to even properly tell what armour pattern these several mm tall miniatures are let alone that being one of the marketing/customization aspects of the whole thing?They're going to add Men of Iron...during the Great Crusade? Something that, unless i've completely missed something, had nothing to do with the Great Crusade?
Doesn't seem believable in the slightest. Whens the last time Faeit212 actually got anything right, though? Everything I can remember reading from them turned out to be fake (unless it was posted elsewhere first).
Have you ever seen what can be done in 6mm?
There's already mk2 6mm models by 3rd party. And mk3. And mk4. And mk5. And mk6. And you can tell them apart...
If some random 3d artist can do it why on earth GW can't? I mean sure GW isn't God Level Sculpting Company Whom Nobody Can Match but it's also rather rich claim they can't do mk2-mk6 in 6mm when others already provenly can
I honestly don't see any of this being even remotely true... I think GW are more about bigatures these days (scale creep and what not), so them doing a large scale game with 6-8mm infantry just seems a bit too unlikely.
Iracundus wrote: Considering the big threat in the 10th edition trailer is the Tyranids and the 4th Tyrannic War, I would have thought the natural would have been to do Epic Tyranids vs. Imperium. Then other factions too as the Tyranids sweep over and attack everyone.
You know what problem that has?
Double the mould expenses. It increases financial risk.
There's reason why adeptus titanicus and epic started originally with HH. It would be same business model.
Hell the reason has become MORE important now that there's more units. It's no longer basic infantry+terminator+rhino+land raider. Now we have multiple infantry types, rhino's, vindicators, predators, laser destroyer, skorpions, cerebrus, kratos, sicarans etc people would expect. And tyranids have gone up in unit count as well...
That's why if GW ever rereleases epic it's even more likely that they follow the same style that made the epic succesfull in the first place...
On the armour Marks, my first question would be “but why?”, as it’s not gonna make a difference beyond aesthetics.
In fact, that’s my only question really.
I’m more interested in how army selection will work. Those long bored by my mind vomit will know I strongly advocate for the 2nd Ed Company/Support/Special Card method. Each card was more or less a boxed set or blister. And you ended up with neat looking forces drawn from an order of battle, and not so much “two of these, three of that, one of those’ us”.
And the way those cards interacted really set a lot of the flavour of each army. Space Marines were largely independent elements. Imperial Guard need to maintain command structure. Orks you basically built ever larger and more fighty mobs.
They’re also a super quick way to assemble your force pre-game.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I really don't like the idea of it being Horus Heresy focused. It feels very limiting to have the game be focused on Space Marines, both with how nearly everyone else would have to miss out and how there wouldn't be too much to differentiate them. It's not like they could really offer upgrade packs and such, there are a few legion specific units but for the most part it'll be similar looking stuff.
Which is also why those Faeit rumours just sound like nonsense. It's a pretty small scale game...so they're going to offer different kits that are slight variations of armour pattern? Just who's going to scrutinize them closely enough to even properly tell what armour pattern these several mm tall miniatures are let alone that being one of the marketing/customization aspects of the whole thing?They're going to add Men of Iron...during the Great Crusade? Something that, unless i've completely missed something, had nothing to do with the Great Crusade?
Doesn't seem believable in the slightest. Whens the last time Faeit212 actually got anything right, though? Everything I can remember reading from them turned out to be fake (unless it was posted elsewhere first).
Have you ever seen what can be done in 6mm?
There's already mk2 6mm models by 3rd party. And mk3. And mk4. And mk5. And mk6. And you can tell them apart...
If some random 3d artist can do it why on earth GW can't? I mean sure GW isn't God Level Sculpting Company Whom Nobody Can Match but it's also rather rich claim they can't do mk2-mk6 in 6mm when others already provenly can
I didn't say they couldn't. Of course its something they'd physically be capable of doing. I said it's such a small thing that it doesn't make a lot of sense to put so much of a focus on that aspect of the miniatures.
Do people really think Epic being marine vs marine wouldn't be successful when 90% of people would be collecting marines even if it launched with xenos?
I just want a 12-15mm armored combat game (like FoW/TY) in the 40k universe. I might settle for 8mm (that's what AI/AT is right?) if the plastic kits are good, but lack of Tau would make that a bummer.
Wish they would have kept going with the Heroes of Black Reach; that's basically 15mm scale Epic and would have been ripe for adding in all the extra factions.
Besides having it in cardboard with the option to upgrade it with 3D miniatures would have been a great way to go - somewhat cheap to get into and easy to garner more money by encouraging the upgrade to 3D.
RazorEdge wrote: Even in 6mm, it makes sense that Sons of Horus wear visible Mk4 and Death Guard Mk3. Also GW can sell more stuff to Space Marine fans.
IF (IF!) Epic returns, it absolutly makes sense to start in the Horus Heresy because:
- Easier to produce with only "one" faction
- Space Marines!
"One" faction where if they did expand to add the others after, a significant portion of that stuff would be incompatible and they'd have to make new kits anyway.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:On the armour Marks, my first question would be “but why?”, as it’s not gonna make a difference beyond aesthetics.
Mentlegen324 wrote:I didn't say they couldn't. Of course its something they'd physically be capable of doing. I said it's such a small thing that it doesn't make a lot of sense to put so much of a focus on that aspect of the miniatures.
Oh bless you dear souls, I beg you, steer well clear of small-scale Napoleonics or WW2 communities...
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:On the armour Marks, my first question would be “but why?”, as it’s not gonna make a difference beyond aesthetics.
Mentlegen324 wrote:I didn't say they couldn't. Of course its something they'd physically be capable of doing. I said it's such a small thing that it doesn't make a lot of sense to put so much of a focus on that aspect of the miniatures.
Oh bless you dear souls, I beg you, steer well clear of small-scale Napoleonics or WW2 communities...
Ah yes, my DBM Mithridatic army in 6mm would have some words to say about accuracy...
Albertorius wrote: Looks like it's tuesday (it's not, but you get my drift xD)
Yeah, it's Tuesday for like 5 years running now. Actually, probably more like 7 since 'Epic when?' started as soon at GW revealed they were working on a new version of AT. As if AT could only be a stepping stone. And here comes AI, another stepping stone! Even though it's a different setting full of xenos.
Whatever. It'll happen or it won't. I'd just like AT to get a little more love (i.e. more Titans) before it folds. TO ME, if they want to move toward Epic it makes more sense to at least bring a couple xenos factions into AT, let the molds pay for themselves, and THEN bring Imperial AND xenos infantry and tanks into a more well-rounded Epic concept that would be appealing to a wider audience. I don't have the business plan, though.
See, there's also risk in launching a HH Epic that some will inevitably feel is an incomplete product. Because probably the second place comment in AT boards behind "Epic when?" is "Xenos when?" If people feel that way about AT and it's kept potentially interested customers on the sidelines, then the same will happen with HH Epic.
Stormonu wrote: Wish they would have kept going with the Heroes of Black Reach; that's basically 15mm scale Epic and would have been ripe for adding in all the extra factions.
They recruitment system for Black Reach is very slick as well. I could see it being adapted for an Epic-like game.
Only GW knows what they're actually going to do with AT, AI or Epic, and the rumours - at best - come across as forum-post-trawling and passing off the findings as from "reliable sources".
To give themselves time to dip their toes into infantry and tanks, it would make sense to add them to Adeptus Titanicus which is already set in the Heresy era, and the rules can accomodate them. In games where Knights are the focus, and even smaller 1K point games, such units would open up the game.
Aeronautica Imperialis could do the business if it were a simple case of only needing a simple core rule set - much like the original AT rules set back on it's release - and just the models to play. The use of hexes was completely unnecessary and especially so given that they still sell the game rules but no maps to play on! From day one we've been using Horizon Wars instead - a regular gaming surface - and its clear as day that GW has been scoring own-goals since.
Well, despite this being a rumor for half a decade at least now, GW can't increase profits every single year without giving us more stuff to buy. Though given 10th edition is coming out, and The Old World is coming out (I think), maybe this year isn't the right year. But given an infinite profit growth curve, mathematically speaking it has to happen eventually.
That this is the work of Holme's arch nemesis - Professor Moriarty! With all due haste, gentlemen, gather your coats for we leave for the Reichenbach Falls within the hour!
Why would you want GW to return to Epic in the first place?
For rules, you've got NetEpic Gold and NetEpic Armageddon for both flavors of Epic. There's the EpicAU rules which can be a bit difficult to find, but allow you to play Horus Heresy with the Epic Armageddon rules (and they even have a full army builder). Or Imperius Dominatus for a system that's more "out there" but still lets you play big battles of the Heresy.
3d printing means you're not hurting for 6mm-8mm figures.
Is this just a case of GW being the path of least resistance?
I have only one thing to say when Epic 30K hits the stores:
SHUT UP AND & TAKE MY MONEY!
Men of Iron would be great! Now it all makes sense why GW is so reluctant to release infantry for 30K. We should save our bucks for the forthcoming Epic 30K game at the end of the year. Good idea, Gee-Dubbs!
I also bought a new table this year. Dimensions are 125 cm x 185 cm. Just imagine how much room the units have for an Epic game to maneuver. Bikes will be viable for the first time.
Titanicus is kind of straining at its limits right now.
There isn't much more to do with the existing game walkers of different sizes with different guns.
They can bigger with the Imperiator and that's about it.
They can go nuts with Chaos Titans of course, but that's a big investment with a questionable return.
And they've said they're not doing Xenos titans any time soon.
So what's next?
Well they can start creeping beyond walkers.
Fortifications at first. That's a few major releases and people will jump on the chance to play Titan siege games.
Then superheavies, from Baneblades and Shadowswords to Colossi to Leviathans.
And then tanks...
And then it's all over. We're playing Epic.
Dysartes wrote: There's also smaller than the Warhound with the Rapier, Kid, as far as I recall.
Yeah, but you can do that like once, and that's already stretching it because you're threading a thin line between heavy knight and supralight titan already. You can also do Thanatar-class Mechanicum robots or more Ordinatus engines, but their tactical scope is slim at best and that's basically just fishing for stuff you can do.
Frankly, Epic 30K is the most logical step for Titanicus/Imperialis to continue.
An Imperitor makes a grand appearance heralding the end of Titanicus and the beginning of Epic30K. Epic 30K becomes a simple starter set: Land Raiders, Rhinos, Predators, Sicarans and LOTS of infantry and fortifications. Nothing sculpted for a specific legion (FW releases).
4 years later, the 2nd Edition (5th?) launches with the after-heresy wars: orks, eldar, chaos undivided etc.
Then, sales pending, they could modernize Epic with Necrons, Nids, Votaan and the like.
Sacredroach wrote: Frankly, Epic 30K is the most logical step for Titanicus/Imperialis to continue.
An Imperitor makes a grand appearance heralding the end of Titanicus and the beginning of Epic30K. Epic 30K becomes a simple starter set: Land Raiders, Rhinos, Predators, Sicarans and LOTS of infantry and fortifications. Nothing sculpted for a specific legion (FW releases).
4 years later, the 2nd Edition (5th?) launches with the after-heresy wars: orks, eldar, chaos undivided etc.
Then, sales pending, they could modernize Epic with Necrons, Nids, Votaan and the like.
Yes, that is a plan I would hope happen...
The big question is: do they even want yet another 'main game' they can and need to support for years? At the moment, we're seeing them roll out their two definite main games, 40k and AoS, with great regularity while also supporting a handful of side games quite adequately, even though some of them are basically 100% compatible with a main game. We also know that they're commited to Horus Heresy in the long term, and apparently have big-ish plans for The Old World, and it's a mystery what's up with ForgeWorld. There's so much stuff we plainly do not known that it's very hard to extrapolate where they're trying to go with all of this.
OK granted there are more they can do with Knights and Titans.
They can do Mechanicus/Dark Mech Titans. They can do construction/work mechs pressed into service. No shields, improvised weapons, but cheap as chips.
Rebuild scrap Titans held together with duct tape and the will of the Machine God.
Plus new guns, new variants etc.
Yeah there's stuff to do. But would any of that bring in a single new player?
A single sprue of fortifications and siege weapons however...
Rapier light scout, light battle titan between Warhound and Reaver, non Nemesis version of the Warbringer (melee focused?) for new titans. New sprue of weapons for each current class to bring a bunch of the resin guns into plastic. Armor plate sets to make corrupted titans, probably starting with the classic Khorne Banelord. Ordinatus as super heavy artillery. Shadowsword and variants as heavier armed but less durable support than knights.
They released new titans for Space Marine 2nd edition / Titan Legions well after the original Adeptus Titanicus went out of print. (Imperator, a couple of Slaaneshi scout titans, Revenant scout titan for Eldar.) Just saying the relaunching Epic doesn't mean that they can't make new titan models.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: OK granted there are more they can do with Knights and Titans.
They can do Mechanicus/Dark Mech Titans. They can do construction/work mechs pressed into service. No shields, improvised weapons, but cheap as chips.
Rebuild scrap Titans held together with duct tape and the will of the Machine God.
Plus new guns, new variants etc.
Yeah there's stuff to do. But would any of that bring in a single new player?
A single sprue of fortifications and siege weapons however...
To say nothing of Super Heavies.
I mean...you can play Epic NOW with minis of superheavies that look great and cost a fraction of what a GW version would inevitably cost. Is there really an unmet demand? And AT could easily grow quite a bit if xenos Titans were added. The studio didn't say 'no' to xenos...it was a 'if it happens, it'll be years away because we have a lot more to do' comment from some years ago.
It's funny to me how this stuff gets interpreted. "Xenos in AT maybe someday" = never happen. "We're working on BFG" = yeah, ignore that. No comment at all regarding Epic = IT'S HAPPENNNNING!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MajorWesJanson wrote: Rapier light scout, light battle titan between Warhound and Reaver, non Nemesis version of the Warbringer (melee focused?) for new titans. New sprue of weapons for each current class to bring a bunch of the resin guns into plastic. Armor plate sets to make corrupted titans, probably starting with the classic Khorne Banelord. Ordinatus as super heavy artillery. Shadowsword and variants as heavier armed but less durable support than knights.
More Ordo Sinister Titans have also been mentioned in the fluff, just not as much as the Rapier.
Sacredroach wrote: Frankly, Epic 30K is the most logical step for Titanicus/Imperialis to continue.
Yeah that's definitely true. After 3-4 years AT was realistically limited by the narrow scope of the game.
If a new Rapier scout titan is armed with something equivalent to a single warhound weapon, it doesn't have much of a role in a game where most targets are larger. You'd need a swarm of them to have any impact against Warlords or larger. They're much better shooting infantry & tanks.
If a new Imperator model was ever developed a good chunk of it's design was originally intended for Epic, with transport capacity and a huge range of weapons from anti-infantry to anti-air. Around 50% of it's role wouldn't exist under AT rules.
We've already had a few examples of extra redundant weapons appearing in AT that either have no rules (AA guns and mortars on the Warmaster & Warbringer), or have little impact on a game (armiger & some cerastus weapons). For things like that to work, they need better targets!
Plus this also opens up scope for fun extras like carapace landing pads and corvus assault pods.
there has only been 1 mention of the rapier in a novel as far as I know... if it does released and is lighter than a warhound, it would be either scale 5, which is already occupied by the acastus, or it would be the third scale titan 6, after the Direwolf also has a scale of 6. Also unlikely.
On the other hand, a Titan with scale 7 is still missing, although there are already rules that explicitly refer to Titans with scale 7 or less (Legio Tempestus, Legio Audax). Rather think that there is something in the direction.
For Epic I don't see any serious sources for new rumors at all, only the repetition of the same rumors over and over again
habedekrai37 wrote: For Epic I don't see any serious sources for new rumors at all, only the repetition of the same rumors over and over again
The most credible indications for Epic are two things:
1) Valrak posted a video recently which detailed several upcoming releases from a "source he trusts", including Epic HH releasing towards the end of the year. Some of those things from that source were proven correct at Adepticon, such as the contents of the KT set and next HH expansion book. That means Epic is much more likely to actually happen.
2) Around the same time Warcom posted an article about new titan weapons, showing a Warhound on a new style base the same height as the old Epic infantry bases. They then edited the article to hide the base, indicating it's something they don't want to reveal just yet.
I'm pretty sure the Faeit post is just clickbait wishlisting as usual though, prompted by other people talking about Epic.
habedekrai37 wrote: For Epic I don't see any serious sources for new rumors at all, only the repetition of the same rumors over and over again
The most credible indications for Epic are two things:
1) Valrak posted a video recently which detailed several upcoming releases from a "source he trusts", including Epic HH releasing towards the end of the year. Some of those things from that source were proven correct at Adepticon, such as the contents of the KT set and next HH expansion book. That means Epic is much more likely to actually happen.
It also bears to pay attention to the important distinction that Valrak said that his 'trusted sources' said that Epic was coming at the end of the year, from which he personally deduced that Epic might get a preview at Adepticon, i.e. the part about a preview was not actually something the sources said, but his conjecture. So far, stuff he attributed to 'trusted sources' proved highly and consistently accurate.
It also bears to pay attention to the important distinction that Valrak said that his 'trusted sources' said that Epic was coming at the end of the year, from which he personally deduced that Epic might get a preview at Adepticon, i.e. the part about a preview was not actually something the sources said, but his conjecture. So far, stuff he attributed to 'trusted sources' proved highly and consistently accurate.
Yeah the hard part with Valrak is untangling the material that comes via genuine sources from his personal speculation & conjecture.
A prime example being his implication of The Lion getting a new bodyguard unit, and what actually turned out to be true.
@Warhoundbase: wow, I haven't heard that interpretation before... rather that it was an mistake that the Warhound was on a larger/oval base
@Rumours and conjectures before the Adepticon: oh ok, that's very subtle, this distinction :-) but let's hope the interpretations are correct. Maybe we'll learn something new at Warhammer Fest.
Adeptus Titanicus came out in October (?), so when was that officially announced?
RazorEdge wrote: AT was announced on Warhammerfest in April 2018, release was then in August 2018.
We knew about AT a lot longer though. It had a similar start to The Old World in that they said it was under development in 2015/16. GW events in 2016/17 had discussions with the studio staff about the game, and rules demonstrations using full-size FW titans.
Then in 2018 they finally showed off the finished product.
xttz wrote: On Saturday they'll do a joke article with normal size space marines on those 5-man strip bases, and then show Epic at WHF at the end of the month.
habedekrai37 wrote: there has only been 1 mention of the rapier in a novel as far as I know... if it does released and is lighter than a warhound, it would be either scale 5, which is already occupied by the acastus, or it would be the third scale titan 6, after the Direwolf also has a scale of 6. Also unlikely.
On the other hand, a Titan with scale 7 is still missing, although there are already rules that explicitly refer to Titans with scale 7 or less (Legio Tempestus, Legio Audax). Rather think that there is something in the direction.
The Rapier has been mentioned in the AT books a number of times. The Dire Wolf had a mention or maybe two in the campaign books before it was released. Years ago, the studio said there were plans for 'tweener Titans around the 3 basic Titans. So far we've gotten two of those. The Rapier is almost certainly scale 5 from its description and would be another 'tweener. Also note that Audax rules were written to accommodate smaller scout Titans. But then I always figured we'd probably end up getting the unnamed scale 7 first just because that would be the most GW thing to do
For Epic I don't see any serious sources for new rumors at all, only the repetition of the same rumors over and over again
Yeah. I'm probably being annoying about it, but I'm just baffled by how the rumors got louder after Epic *wasn't* revealed and all the pre-Adepticon word parsing was proven to be wrong.
RazorEdge wrote: AT was announced on Warhammerfest in April 2018, release was then in August 2018.
We knew about AT a lot longer though. It had a similar start to The Old World in that they said it was under development in 2015/16. GW events in 2016/17 had discussions with the studio staff about the game, and rules demonstrations using full-size FW titans.
Then in 2018 they finally showed off the finished product.
Yeah, IIRC the story was that the game was intended to have resin Titans only. Then GW realized from the response that they might have a hit on their hands, so they went back and did the Titans in plastic, pushing the release date out a year or more.
habedekrai37 wrote: For Epic I don't see any serious sources for new rumors at all, only the repetition of the same rumors over and over again
The most credible indications for Epic are two things:
1) Valrak posted a video recently which detailed several upcoming releases from a "source he trusts", including Epic HH releasing towards the end of the year. Some of those things from that source were proven correct at Adepticon, such as the contents of the KT set and next HH expansion book. That means Epic is much more likely to actually happen.
2) Around the same time Warcom posted an article about new titan weapons, showing a Warhound on a new style base the same height as the old Epic infantry bases. They then edited the article to hide the base, indicating it's something they don't want to reveal just yet.
Also they mentioned Epic in every single "40 Years of Warhammer" Article on WarCom.
For rules, you've got NetEpic Gold and NetEpic Armageddon for both flavors of Epic. There's the EpicAU rules which can be a bit difficult to find, but allow you to play Horus Heresy with the Epic Armageddon rules (and they even have a full army builder). Or Imperius Dominatus for a system that's more "out there" but still lets you play big battles of the Heresy.
3d printing means you're not hurting for 6mm-8mm figures.
Is this just a case of GW being the path of least resistance?
QFT!
I would love there to be a new release. Even if whichever rules they release suck, it should at least mean a bunch more (albeit no doubt expensive) minis available.
But there is already an active community, games you can play and armies you can buy right at this very moment. You don't need to wait, cap in hand, for GW to release something official.
Yers you can buy the mini's, but i have looked for some and i can not say that they are very good.
You have mini's that are oke and mini's that are ugly.
But you can say a lot about gw, but they make the best mini's.
skeleton wrote: Yers you can buy the mini's, but i have looked for some and i can not say that they are very good.
You have mini's that are oke and mini's that are ugly.
But you can say a lot about gw, but they make the best mini's.
You surely have not been looking hard enough
Take a look in the epic thread on dakkadakka for some good miniature pictures
More titbits about the release of EPIC as the next Game by the Specialist Design Studio of GW.
Start-wise:
Big Box Set with enough Stuff to build 3 to 4 "small" Legiones Astartes Armies
Set is thematic is focused on the Istvaan III atrocity
All four Traitor Legions on Istvaan III featured with specific rules
Hardcover Rulebook
Thin Campaign Booklet to play the killing between Brothers on Istvaans
Rule-wise:
Game is based on Epic Armageddone Ruleset
Army Rules will more focused on Thematic Armies
Compendium which features rules and profiles for all 18 Space Marine Legions, Imperial Army, Mechanicum ect.
Model-wise:
"Big" Infantry Sprue with 4 medium segmented parts (like common medium GW sprues) for Space Marines with Models for:
Two segments with each
Mk4 Tactical Squads
Mk4 Heavy Weapons ("anti-tank" and "anti-infatry") Squads
Mk4 Assault Squads
Mk4 Bike Squads
One segment with:
Mk4 Command Squads (Enough Parts for two Squads and different Leaders)
One segment with:
Terminators in Tartaros and Command Squad options
Second big Infantry Sprue in the same fashion but with Mk2 & Mk3 Armour mixed
One segment with
Mk2 Tactical Squads
Mk2 Heavy Weapons ("anti-tank" and "anti-infatry" Squads
Mk2 Assault Squads
Mk2 Bike Squads
One segment with:
Mk3 Tactical Squads
Mk3 Heavy Weapons ("anti-tank" and "anti-infatry") Squads
Mk3 Breacher Squads
One segment with:
Mk2 & Mk3 Command Squads (One Squad each with one Armour type)
One segment with:
Terminators in Cataphractii and Command Squad options
"Deimos" Sprue with 3 medium segmented parts with:
Two with Parts for four basic Rhinos
One with with Parts for Predator, Vindicator and Whirlwind variants
"Heavy Tank" Sprue with 3 medium segmented parts with:
One with Parts for 3 Land Raider Proteus
One with Parts for 2 Spartans and Variants
One with Parts for 3 Sicarians and Variants
"Heavy Tank" Sprue with parts for Felblade Variants
"Assault Vehicle" Sprue with parts for Land Speeder & Javelin Variants
Imperial Army and Mechanicum core units are also planned in plastic
Re-use of AT & AI Models for Arial and "extra big" support
Special Units and specific Stuff in Resin
Those "segmented" sprue parts could possible be seperated to get sold seperate later
UPDATED ADDITION
"Dreadnought" Sprues with parts for 4 Contemptors and 2 Leviathans with many weapon options
schoon wrote: That seems oddly detailed and specific for a leak/rumor.
Optimistic view: it is very detailled because someone has seen marketing material that is done and will be released shortly
Most likely view: it is very detailled because it's completely made up and faeit is posting any random nonsense, as they are known to do
Why would GW print 2 different sets of cosmetically different infantry as part of the starter wave? HH didn't release mkVI and Mk II boxes at the same time after all. Why not use that sprue budget for say Terrain or a Mastadon kit instead of splitting sales of infantry?
More titbits about the release of EPIC as the next Game by the Specialist Design Studio of GW.
Start-wise:
Big Box Set with enough Stuff to build 3 to 4 "small" Legiones Astartes Armies
Set is thematic is focused on the Istvaan III atrocity
All four Traitor Legions on Istvaan III featured with specific rules
Hardcover Rulebook
Thin Campaign Booklet to play the killing between Brothers on Istvaans
Rule-wise:
Game is based on Epic Armageddone Ruleset
Army Rules will more focused on Thematic Armies
Compendium which features rules and profiles for all 18 Space Marine Legions, Imperial Army, Mechanicum ect.
Model-wise:
"Big" Infantry Sprue with 4 medium segmented parts (like common medium GW sprues) for Space Marines with Models for:
Two segments with each
Mk4 Tactical Squads
Mk4 Heavy Weapons ("anti-tank" and "anti-infatry") Squads
Mk4 Assault Squads
Mk4 Bike Squads
One segment with:
Mk4 Command Squads (Enough Parts for two Squads and different Leaders)
One segment with:
Terminators in Tartaros and Command Squad options
Second big Infantry Sprue in the same fashion but with Mk2 & Mk3 Armour mixed
One segment with
Mk2 Tactical Squads
Mk2 Heavy Weapons ("anti-tank" and "anti-infatry" Squads
Mk2 Assault Squads
Mk2 Bike Squads
One segment with:
Mk3 Tactical Squads
Mk3 Heavy Weapons ("anti-tank" and "anti-infatry") Squads
Mk3 Breacher Squads
One segment with:
Mk2 & Mk3 Command Squads (One Squad each with one Armour type)
One segment with:
Terminators in Cataphractii and Command Squad options
"Deimos" Sprue with 3 medium segmented parts with:
Two with Parts for four basic Rhinos
One with with Parts for Predator, Vindicator and Whirlwind variants
"Heavy Tank" Sprue with 3 medium segmented parts with:
One with Parts for 3 Land Raider Proteus
One with Parts for 2 Spartans and Variants
One with Parts for 3 Sicarians and Variants
"Heavy Tank" Sprue with parts for Felblade Variants
"Assault Vehicle" Sprue with parts for Land Speeder & Javelin Variants
Imperial Army and Mechanicum core units are also planned in plastic
Re-use of AT & AI Models for Arial and "extra big" support
Special Units and specific Stuff in Resin
Those "segmented" sprue parts could possible be seperated to get sold seperate later
UPDATED ADDITION
"Dreadnought" Sprues with parts for 4 Contemptors and 2 Leviathans with many weapon options
Good. Make it happen GW otherwise an angry mob formed of Dakka members will march on Nottingham with torches & pitchforks.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Why would GW print 2 different sets of cosmetically different infantry as part of the starter wave? HH didn't release mkVI and Mk II boxes at the same time after all. Why not use that sprue budget for say Terrain or a Mastadon kit instead of splitting sales of infantry?
For Epic it's quite a bit easier to support mutiple armour marks. For the same sprue space as say the HH MkVI kit you can have 2-3 different versions of Epic infantry including variants like breachers and heavy squads.
Having them available helps make different legions distinct, a bit like how Titanicus included alternative loyalist and traitor armour bits for titans.
I find the idea of having several armour variants available at launch more believable than "Imperial Army and Mechanicum core units are also planned in plastic ". Thanks Faeit
Here's hoping. Faeit doesn't inspire confidence, but if it it happens it happens. I'd love some plastic epic tanks and terminators (preferably Indomitus pattern, but hey).
MajorWesJanson wrote: Why would GW print 2 different sets of cosmetically different infantry as part of the starter wave? HH didn't release mkVI and Mk II boxes at the same time after all. Why not use that sprue budget for say Terrain or a Mastadon kit instead of splitting sales of infantry?
For Epic it's quite a bit easier to support mutiple armour marks. For the same sprue space as say the HH MkVI kit you can have 2-3 different versions of Epic infantry including variants like breachers and heavy squads.
Having them available helps make different legions distinct, a bit like how Titanicus included alternative loyalist and traitor armour bits for titans.
I find the idea of having several armour variants available at launch more believable than "Imperial Army and Mechanicum core units are also planned in plastic ". Thanks Faeit
If they removed that single last line, it would look much more believable that e.g. someone saw and ad or whatever for an upcoming box that was soon to be released Generally GW don't tease about 'planned' stuff anymore unless it's a multi-year project like TOW, Sororitas or CoS, or due to immediate release.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For what it's worth, Valrak just dropped a single line in a 40k-themed video:
- Space Marines will get 'a lot of love' in 10th edition (duh)
- Starter Box is just step one
- 'End of Summer' second wave for SM, September/August
- 'Huge Refresh' for Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves
- Dark Angel stuff is from a source he trusts 100% - Blood Angel and Space Wolf stuff is from a new source - BA and SW will receive boxed sets
- Dante probably in a boxed set, presented at Warhammer fest (speculation)
- He 'knows' Epic Horus Heresy will be shown of at Warhammer Fest
- Dark Angel box set with brand-new Sammael and Belial (unclear if old or new model)
- Second wave will also include separate kits for the stuff in the 10th box set
- Sanguinary guard: personally believes they'll come, but has no concrete information
- 'Everyone' will get a range refresh like Black Templars: a few units, upgrade frames and a few characters
- Says that will occupy the first half (!) of 10th edition
He now claims he knows, i.e. knows for sure, that Epic Horus Heresy will be shown at Warhammer Fest in four weeks time.
skeleton wrote: Yers you can buy the mini's, but i have looked for some and i can not say that they are very good.
You have mini's that are oke and mini's that are ugly.
But you can say a lot about gw, but they make the best mini's.
You surely have not been looking hard enough
Take a look in the epic thread on dakkadakka for some good miniature pictures
Seconded! 'Best minis' doesn't mean quite as much when you are just talking about 6/8mm, there is only so much you can do at that scale. And one in the hand is worth two in the bush, as they say.
I can buy and build a good chunk of a Chapter's worth of marines right now, and indeed have done so
Spoiler:
I posted this at the prospect of the Epic community being worried about the potential for crap new rules that depth-charge the existing community, and the reaction of guys who have been playing 2nd edition SM since 1991 at the prospect of a new version coming along..
I have the rules for 2nd Ed. Missing Titan Legions (but £3,500.00 or so bonus in May should fix that) . What’s stopping me playing?
A lack of models. I mean, I’ve a proper complete set from the 2nd Ed Box, but that’s not really enough.
I could turn to 3D Printing. I could turn to 3rd Party sculpts. Or, GW relaunches the scale and I take the easy route, buying what will no doubt be lovely lovely models.
If this turns out to be real, my 40K plans will change a great deal. Since the 90's, my preferred 40K ways to play have been skirmish level & epic, I could resume that with KT21/Epic HH and just collect a 40K army for the sake of building/painting.
If this turns out to be real, my 40K plans will change a great deal. Since the 90's, my preferred 40K ways to play have been skirmish level & epic, I could resume that with KT21/Epic HH and just collect a 40K army for the sake of building/painting.
This too is my gaming preference, though without a 40K army (I’m in for the gaming, not the hobby).
More titbits about the release of EPIC as the next Game by the Specialist Design Studio of GW.
.......
Second big Infantry Sprue in the same fashion but with Mk2 & Mk3 Armour mixed
One segment with
Mk2 Tactical Squads
Mk2 Heavy Weapons ("anti-tank" and "anti-infatry" Squads
Mk2 Assault Squads
Mk2 Bike Squads
One segment with:
Mk3 Tactical Squads
Mk3 Heavy Weapons ("anti-tank" and "anti-infatry") Squads
Mk3 Breacher Squads
One segment with:
Mk2 & Mk3 Command Squads (One Squad each with one Armour type)
......
Again, MK2/3 together makes no sense. It's hard to tell those two apart at 28mm size, so there's absolutely no point in trying to do this in tiny size.
Andykp wrote:If it’s just HH then it sucks. Epic needs ORKS.
If they are basing it on Armageddon, then you already have the rules for Orks there and waiting. And a massive collection of original minis, a superb proxy range from Vanguard, and tons of 3D prints.
tauist wrote:Warhammer Fest Epic reveal?
If this turns out to be real, my 40K plans will change a great deal. Since the 90's, my preferred 40K ways to play have been skirmish level & epic, I could resume that with KT21/Epic HH and just collect a 40K army for the sake of building/painting.
It's a funny point, but I often wonder if this is why they stopped producing the scale in the first place. It's better to try and get people to buy entire tank companies, whole platoons of infantry, even super heavy tanks at 28mm scale and spend £1000s while doing so. I can very much imagine Tom Kirby saying those words when Apocalypse was being prepped. Of course, now the management has changed, and they can see the picture of that type of warfare working much better as a game at smaller scale.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:On a new edition and damaging the community.
I have the rules for 2nd Ed. Missing Titan Legions (but £3,500.00 or so bonus in May should fix that) . What’s stopping me playing?
A lack of models. I mean, I’ve a proper complete set from the 2nd Ed Box, but that’s not really enough.
I could turn to 3D Printing. I could turn to 3rd Party sculpts. Or, GW relaunches the scale and I take the easy route, buying what will no doubt be lovely lovely models.
Very true. I think most of the worry about ruleset was from people that saw what happened to the Necromunda community when the new Necromunda release happened, which was to fragment it and destabilise. But, the Epic community is already pretty fragmented and I think most people are happy playing multiple versions of the game, so I don't think that will happen in this case.
PS - unless you get stuck in a bidding war, I would be very surprised if Titan Legions goes for that much
If this turns out to be real, my 40K plans will change a great deal. Since the 90's, my preferred 40K ways to play have been skirmish level & epic, I could resume that with KT21/Epic HH and just collect a 40K army for the sake of building/painting.
It's a funny point, but I often wonder if this is why they stopped producing the scale in the first place. It's better to try and get people to buy entire tank companies, whole platoons of infantry, even super heavy tanks at 28mm scale and spend £1000s while doing so. I can very much imagine Tom Kirby saying those words when Apocalypse was being prepped. Of course, now the management has changed, and they can see the picture of that type of warfare working much better as a game at smaller scale.
I suppose so, we have seen what happened to 40Kapoc.. 2 editions of apoc have came out and the game is at an impasse! I think current GW understands better to keep modern 40K contained to about 3000pts or less, and giving another go at Epic for larger scale conflicts. Kirby was wrong all along
Fact of the matter remains, only whales like collecting huge 28mm armies. A "typical" 40K franchise player wants to invest a couple hundred to be able to have fun with mates, apoc tier 28mm gaming is a niche within a niche hobby
I share the opinion, that a return of EPIC could prove that 40kApoc failed as a product for GW and that they understood this.
I wonder how EPIC will impact the 30k community. In my opinon is EPIC more suited to represent Battles in the Horus Heresy (or the Great Crusade) than 30k or 40k rules.
It's a funny point, but I often wonder if this is why they stopped producing the scale in the first place.
Goonnhamer did a pair of articles where they talk to GW studio staff from the 90's and explore what happened to specialist games in that era. Not a quick read, but quite interesting.
Andykp wrote: If it’s just HH then it sucks. Epic needs ORKS.
.. and Squats and Eldar and Nids etc...
Happy if they start with Heresy - limits the risk and simple marine vs marine. won't be impressed if they spend the next 2 years producing different armour marks at 6mm scale for them..It needs a breadth of factions long term rather than narrow depth of a few imperial factions.
Andykp wrote: If it’s just HH then it sucks. Epic needs ORKS.
Yeah right but who is buying them?
Depending on price? Epic players in general.
One of the joys of Epic as a snivellin’ Grot of strictly limited means, was pocket money comfortably bought a new Blister, or perhaps plastic box. That in itself was a comfortable expansion of my army.
You got to 4,000 points pretty quickly. And with the 2nd Ed Set coming with not one, not two, but three armies? You had strong encouragement to expand those into more cohesive forces. And….we did.
Of course, that’s 30 or so years ago. And no I’m not expecting the pricing to be the same. Nor do I even have a clue what Pocket Money looks like these days. See rather sensibly I’ve spared humanity one or more mini-me’s running around clogging things up, so I singularly lack the point of reference.
Because when you can make one purchase and have a complete unit ready to go? It kind of feels like better value. Even if the old plastic infantry boxes ring in at £50? You’re still getting an embarrassment of stuff for your money. And it’s all usable. Especially in 2nd Ed Terms, where things could be fielded at company strength, or detachment strength.
It's a funny point, but I often wonder if this is why they stopped producing the scale in the first place.
Goonnhamer did a pair of articles where they talk to GW studio staff from the 90's and explore what happened to specialist games in that era. Not a quick read, but quite interesting.
My main hope for any remake of Epic, no matter what specific moniker they use for it, is that it will allow creativity at -pardon the pun- a scale that has been absent from the warhammer universe for more than a decade since the advent of their policy to only represent stuff in the background that has rules, models and can be purchased right now. A lot of the designs for 40k saw the light of day as epic sculpts because technology and economic viability to have them in 'proper' 40k scale just was not there, and it was a slow trickle once they started to port these concepts over in the early 2000s. I think the smaller scale of Epic allows for new, imaginative stuff with much less investment than a full 40k model or even army, and that's a breath of fresh air that the universe desperately needs. If we have to suffer another glut of marines and marine-related units to get there, so be it.
Tsagualsa wrote: My main hope for any remake of Epic, no matter what specific moniker they use for it, is that it will allow creativity at -pardon the pun- a scale that has been absent from the warhammer universe for more than a decade since the advent of their policy to only represent stuff in the background that has rules, models and can be purchased right now. A lot of the designs for 40k saw the light of day as epic sculpts because technology and economic viability to have them in 'proper' 40k scale just was not there, and it was a slow trickle once they started to port these concepts over in the early 2000s. I think the smaller scale of Epic allows for new, imaginative stuff with much less investment than a full 40k model or even army, and that's a breath of fresh air that the universe desperately needs. If we have to suffer another glut of marines and marine-related units to get there, so be it.
Hope: GW gives us Epic:HH and the glut of marines and marine based tanks that Lenton seem unable to stop spewing at 28mm level for that timeframe. THEN we could get Epic:Crusade Imperial Armies, Vast Ork hordes, Wily, Enigmatic and abhorrent Eldar.
THE DREAM: Some non compliant human add ons so we can all force illumination on those who reject the Imperial Truth. Tyranids and Tau.
The reality: we'll get an 'Epic' amount of Primaris LT variants released for 10th.
Can I just add that my Epic at Fest is just speculation on my part, I know it’s out this year and I’m hearing at the end of Summer so Fest makes most sense.
Can I just add that my Epic at Fest is just speculation on my part, I know it’s out this year and I’m hearing at the end of Summer so Fest makes most sense.
Okay, so 'I know that Epic will be at Warhammer Fest' is speculation, got it
Let me cite directly from the video transcript:
3:52
the Dreadnought so they have to have
3:54
something big to show off at warmerfest
3:56
at the end of April I know epic epic
3:59
Horrors heresy will be shown off there
4:01
for people who you know gonna say oh
4:02
it's gonna be that yeah but what about
4:04
for one or 40 000 as well anyway we're
4:07
getting off track so
Can I just add that my Epic at Fest is just speculation on my part, I know it’s out this year and I’m hearing at the end of Summer so Fest makes most sense.
Okay, so 'I know that Epic will be at Warhammer Fest' is speculation, got it
Let me cite directly from the video transcript:
3:52
the Dreadnought so they have to have
3:54
something big to show off at warmerfest
3:56
at the end of April I know epic epic
3:59
Horrors heresy will be shown off there
4:01
for people who you know gonna say oh
4:02
it's gonna be that yeah but what about
4:04
for one or 40 000 as well anyway we're
4:07
getting off track so
Can I just add that my Epic at Fest is just speculation on my part, I know it’s out this year and I’m hearing at the end of Summer so Fest makes most sense.
Okay, so 'I know that Epic will be at Warhammer Fest' is speculation, got it
Let me cite directly from the video transcript:
3:52
the Dreadnought so they have to have
3:54
something big to show off at warmerfest
3:56
at the end of April I know epic epic
3:59
Horrors heresy will be shown off there
4:01
for people who you know gonna say oh
4:02
it's gonna be that yeah but what about
4:04
for one or 40 000 as well anyway we're
4:07
getting off track so
Crude youtube auto-transcript aside, that's unambiguous, and his B&C statement is backpedaling.
So....Valrak is going to do a big Gotcha! 'I lied when I said I was speculating. FOOLS!?'
Or he cant clarify his previous statements?
He said before that his trusted sources said Epic was coming at the end of the year and that he personally speculated that it would be shown at Adepticon. In this other video, he said he 'knew' it was coming at Warhammerfest. He probably misspoke and/or used 'know' when he wanted to say 'guess' or whatever, but still he made this statement in public. I think we can give him the benefit of doubt when he publicly clarifies that he was just speculating, but i'd obviously still prefer if there was no need to do that...
How far off was he about 10th? Not that I care. Rumours prior to a release are rumours prior to a release. If you get so upset about buying into rumours prior to a release then... well, I dunno, you deserve to get upset. Over buying into rumours before a release. Maybe take up a hobby or something.
It’s probably not going to happen at Warhammer Fest, due to all of the 10th edition stuff that will surely be going on. Also, Valrak has already commented on B&C that he just assumed it would be announced there, and that his source never said it would be.
Im guessing that if Epic does happen this year, then it won’t be revealed until after 40K is released.
FYI - there have been no new AT or AI plastics since November 2021.
Again, MK2/3 together makes no sense. It's hard to tell those two apart at 28mm size, so there's absolutely no point in trying to do this in tiny size.
Don't think I've posted this in this version of the 'new epic is coming' thread (only the previous five of them lol) sofor anyone reading if this has whet your appetite for Epic scale minis and you want to give it a go here is a link to a new players guide https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
If epic does return, I’m expecting it to be in a bigger scale than 6mm. Isn’t Titanicus more like 8mm? I could be misremembering, but hasn’t it been said by people at GW that when they chose the new scale for Titanicus, they did consider what marines would look like at that scale?
I’m thinking a lot of people with 6mm armies will find their existing minis look way too small.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: If epic does return, I’m expecting it to be in a bigger scale than 6mm. Isn’t Titanicus more like 8mm? I could be misremembering, but hasn’t it been said by people at GW that when they chose the new scale for Titanicus, they did consider what marines would look like at that scale?
I’m thinking a lot of people with 6mm armies will find their existing minis look way too small.
Worth noting that nothing GW makes is to any particular real life scale in the same way as historicals or model trains.
Titanicus (and AI) minis are just 25% the size of the 40k versions, whatever size that is. That would make Epic marines around 8mm tall, which is where the "8mm scale" term comes from. Regular humans should be closer to 6-7mm.
Old Epic infantry should look fairly OK, but the vehicles are likely to be a bit smaller than new Epic.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: If epic does return, I’m expecting it to be in a bigger scale than 6mm. Isn’t Titanicus more like 8mm? I could be misremembering, but hasn’t it been said by people at GW that when they chose the new scale for Titanicus, they did consider what marines would look like at that scale?.
Yes? And marines aren't human sized last time I read fluff on space marines. If I were to walk next to life sized space marine I should be looking UP despite being tad over 6 feet tall myself(tad over average finn). Marines at 6mm scale should be taller than 6mm as they are, funnily enough, supposed to be taller than average human
Early up AT people asked about that and guess what? Easy way to measure. Take up size of warlord titan, compare to what size technical specifications give to height(thanks for FW for detailed specifications), measure, pretty much between 1:285 to 1:300 which are both called 6mm.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: If epic does return, I’m expecting it to be in a bigger scale than 6mm. Isn’t Titanicus more like 8mm? I could be misremembering, but hasn’t it been said by people at GW that when they chose the new scale for Titanicus, they did consider what marines would look like at that scale?
I’m thinking a lot of people with 6mm armies will find their existing minis look way too small.
Worth noting that nothing GW makes is to any particular real life scale in the same way as historicals or model trains.
Titanicus (and AI) minis are just 25% the size of the 40k versions, whatever size that is. That would make Epic marines around 8mm tall, which is where the "8mm scale" term comes from. Regular humans should be closer to 6-7mm.
Old Epic infantry should look fairly OK, but the vehicles are likely to be a bit smaller than new Epic.
Importantly, the old epic infantry just fits nicely through the e.g. manholes at the back of a current AT Warlord titan. It sure helps a lot that Titans themselves have extremely varying descriptions in the fluff, from being hundreds of meters tall to more sensible dimensions that work out to being as tall as 6-12 story buildings and so on... Flyers, too, were never really 'in scale' in the old epic system, so as you said, it's practically wrong to say that Epic was any consistent scale at all.
Racerguy180 wrote: Yeah scale is very, very wonky everywhere in OG epic.
Just for the people that don't know their Squats:
on the left is a Squat Land-Train engine, on the right a Land Raider. The Land-Train is described thus:
A Land Train comprises a huge Engine annd a number of smaller tracked carriages called Battlecars[1b].
Both engine and cars are immensely armored all-around. The locomotive is also fitted with a pair of Void Shields forming a bubble around the entire train, with the generators in each car providing enough power to raise another one. Every battlecar is an independent vehicle with its own computer brain, able to move freely, albeit at a slower pace, without the assistance of the engine. Once linked together they're controlled from the locomotive. The engine is armed with a gigantic Doomsday Cannon and two heavy Battlecannons, all front facing, as well as numerous bolt weapons for self-defense. The Land Train is big and powerful enough to simply crush or push away any enemy under its threads, short of a Titan or Super-Heavy Tank[1b]
The recent metal vehicles re-released for Epic Armageddon are close enough to AT/AI scale that it probably won't matter to most people. The resin stuff from Forge World is likely too small as they tended to be. The plastics and older metals (including aircraft) are hot garbage and need to be redone from scratch.
One of the failings of Epic Armageddon was that they just rebuilt the infantry sprues with the old Epic 40,000 plastics, which everyone had buckets of or could get for pennies on eBay. Sales were really poor because there was no reason to buy the new plastics. The other thing that killed EA early on was that the new metal models they produced were prohibitively expensive. The Space Marine Landing Craft (Thunderhawk Transporter) was $50 US at the time. So, does one buy two of them for EA? Or does one grab the Battlefleet Gothic core box set, paint, and brushes? Hmmmm...
I'm pretty sure this was one of the worst selling models GW's ever produced (and there've been some real stinkers over the years).
Tsagualsa wrote: Flyers, too, were never really 'in scale' in the old epic system, so as you said, it's practically wrong to say that Epic was any consistent scale at all.
Actually fliers (and titans) were supposed to be at 1/600 scale, so at least internally consistent and easier to make.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Breotan wrote: Sales were really poor because there was no reason to buy the new plastics.
Maybe that was a US thing? Sales in the UK were 400% of Warmaster (the game used for projecting potential sales) and quite a surprise. It led tot he 'soft' relaunch of BFG in the states through mail order promotion and a few articles, but that was kinda the death nell of SG - while overall sales went up, the majority of the money seemed to come from a big dip in other sales. Concussion was the return on investment wasn't high enough, it cannibalised sales from other lines and should be all shut down in Kirbies drive for ultra tight, focused, higher profit, core game sales.
When maangement changed they changed their view for a number of reasons, not least the recognition they had essentially given space for competitors to grow.
The Space Marine Landing Craft (Thunderhawk Transporter) was $50 US at the time. So, does one buy two of them for EA? Or does one grab the Battlefleet Gothic core box set, paint, and brushes? Hmmmm...
I'm pretty sure this was one of the worst selling models GW's ever produced (and there've been some real stinkers over the years).
Sold out multiple times (rough on moulds as well apparently). As it was quite good in game (later slightly nerf'd) and you could do fun things like have two - one loaded and one unloaded showing different stages of mission - they sold well enough for I think Vanguard to be able to sell a tweaked forumware version. (If I am wrong and someone knows who makes it please include link!)
I was working GW retail in Spain back then, and while Epic sales were so-so while in stores (at the time, WFB was king and everything else second fiddle, including 40k, Spain was a very different market), with it going to mail order only and the almost doubling or tripling in prices, it basically went dead overnight.
Have to remember SG were on borrowed time (life support?) for some years now before it was finally killed. It was used as a testing ground for new sculptors (most of these were fine, but there were a few dodgy ones for Necromunda and Epic amongst others). Then it was going to be removed entirely until Jervis Johnson apparently offered to keep it running by himself, off of his own back, in addition to his standard responsibilities.
I don't think Armageddon not having a box set helped it. If you make a game hard to purchase, relatively expensive (compared to previous incarnations) - it was a wonderful game but little was done to help it, at a time Kirby seemed to be determined to send GW on a 'core game only' ever reducing spiral. Thankfully the current powers have recognised the benefit of diversifying, bringing back tight-fisted grognards like me and also giving new gamers the opportunity to play some GW games without spending many £hundreds and having to prepare dozens of miniatures as is the case for 40k or Sigmar.
Did someone noticed that we hadn't any AT or AI Articles in the WD since a long time?
Last AT Article was in 473 (Feb 22)
Last AI Article was in 475 (Apr 22)
April 2022 was also when the first Epic rumors since a long Time started to spread.
There's been Titanicus articles about the Dire Wolf, gravtion weapons, and conversion beamer since then. No new plastic since the Iconoclast in 2021 though.
Did someone noticed that we hadn't any AT or AI Articles in the WD since a long time?
Last AT Article was in 473 (Feb 22)
Last AI Article was in 475 (Apr 22)
April 2022 was also when the first Epic rumors since a long Time started to spread.
There's been Titanicus articles about the Dire Wolf, gravtion weapons, and conversion beamer since then. No new plastic since the Iconoclast in 2021 though.
Have these been in WD or just on the Community page?
While I'm not saying I'm convinced Epic is coming out this year...
By and large, it's a different audience than 10th Ed, and a different set of resources to develop it. If 10th comes out this summer, a "Specialist Game" in the fall hardly steals its thunder.
schoon wrote: While I'm not saying I'm convinced Epic is coming out this year...
By and large, it's a different audience than 10th Ed, and a different set of resources to develop it. If 10th comes out this summer, a "Specialist Game" in the fall hardly steals its thunder.
Also, the year has literally a second half they need to fill with something, and they're hyping 10th ~ two months before its release already... How much thunder will there be to steal anyway? The 10th box alone is not gonna carry 4-5 months of releases, and neither are Space Marine and Tyranid codexes. There will be some stuff for other games by necessity, and depending on the release model 'Epic HH' is not going to take more release space than a single box and/or book, with maybe some expansion packs down the line.
It really depends how much they're going to try and cram into this year. Another edition of AOS is almost certainly coming next summer, so the big question is how much GW want The Old World to avoid clashing with AOS.
A late August release (like Titanicus) for Epic is possible, and that allows TOW to fit into the November slot. If that's the case I expect they'd tease Epic soon.
But if TOW isn't until some time next year then Epic is more likely to be a Oct/Nov release, and they're probably not going to talk about it until after 10e is on shelves.
xttz wrote: It really depends how much they're going to try and cram into this year. A late August release (like Titanicus) for Epic is possible, and that allows TOW to fit into the November slot. If that's the case I expect they'd tease Epic soon.
But if TOW isn't until next year then Epic is more likely to be a Oct/Nov release, and they're probably not going to talk about it until after 10e is on shelves.
The long and short of it is that we basically don't know anything past Warhammerfest other than 10th is coming, our roadmaps for the sidegames are finished, we know the AoS roadmap until and including Autumn, and not much besides this. We can only hope that we'll get a tiny glimpse for Easter, maybe, and then a good look at the rest of the year at WarhammerFest. Ideally, we'll get roadmaps for all the system that are currently lacking one, new seasons for the games with season models and so on.
Gonna be honest, while I love Epic, product fatigue is setting in. I would have a hard time fitting it in while keeping up with all these other things they're doing.
xttz wrote: It really depends how much they're going to try and cram into this year. Another edition of AOS is almost certainly coming next summer
Lol really? I have literally just got the rules and an army book. I give up, the race is now on for me to try and finish an army and get one game in before my rules, book and army (probably) become invalid.
Faeit 212 posted further, very specific rumors of the new Epic box contents today.
Either this stuff will be revealed at Fest in a few weeks, or someone is having a good time making stuff up.
I do recall that the specific contents of the most recent Horus Hersey box set were disseminated by the rumors sites a long time before it was announced (half a year or more?). It could be that this is a similar case - I just have a hard time believing that most casual observers would know enough about Epic to be able to report out on it.
It the specific rumors are true, then players of Epic Armageddon that prefer to use official models ought to be quite happy, as most of the rumored box contents could be used as-is in the current E:A force lists.
xttz wrote: It really depends how much they're going to try and cram into this year. Another edition of AOS is almost certainly coming next summer
Lol really? I have literally just got the rules and an army book. I give up, the race is now on for me to try and finish an army and get one game in before my rules, book and army (probably) become invalid.
Aos3 came 2021. 3 year cycle is gw's style. 2021+3=2024.
And we are almost done with battletomes. 3 left. 1 in summer, 1 autumn, 1 unannounced
xttz wrote: It really depends how much they're going to try and cram into this year. Another edition of AOS is almost certainly coming next summer
Lol really? I have literally just got the rules and an army book. I give up, the race is now on for me to try and finish an army and get one game in before my rules, book and army (probably) become invalid.
Aos3 came 2021. 3 year cycle is gw's style. 2021+3=2024.
And we are almost done with battletomes. 3 left. 1 in summer, 1 autumn, 1 unannounced
It certainly is, nowadays. One of the reasons I don't bother with their print product anymore.
I always thought the next epic scale game would be some sort of armoured warfare game, giving them the opportunity to make vehicles for the next few years before going for infantry in an actual “epic” release in a few more years time.
RazorEdge wrote: There were rumors about AT getting expanted with Airplanes and Tanks but I doubt it. They will go full Epic for IP reasons...
Aircraft speculation was because Aeronauticus was rereleased at the same scale.
As for tanks, there's been speculation from the start - fueled in part by the presence of knights - that super-heavies like the Shadowsword (which is explicitly an anti-titan vehicle) would be added to the game. No sign of them yet, however.
zedmeister wrote: I’ve been wondering if the recent Titanicus conversion beam weapons article had a “hiding in plain sight” teaser. Namely the flatter sculpted base
Titans moving to flat bases? Plastic moulds? New epic design? Wishful thinking?
Occam's Razor: The person who submitted that image plays Epic and uses the current Titan minis. No one caught the base until someone pointed it out. So they had to hide it.
zedmeister wrote: I’ve been wondering if the recent Titanicus conversion beam weapons article had a “hiding in plain sight” teaser. Namely the flatter sculpted base
Titans moving to flat bases? Plastic moulds? New epic design? Wishful thinking?
Occam's Razor: The person who submitted that image plays Epic and uses the current Titan minis. No one caught the base until someone pointed it out. So they had to hide it.
That image is of an at-the-time unreleased weapon from forgeworld on a titan body of the studio, there is no 'person' behind that in this sense.
It is, however, possible that they had switched bases to use this model to make pictures for an upcoming 'Epic' product, and forgot to change them back before doing the shots for this new article.
SamusDrake wrote: Probably means nothing, but Battlebling are labelling their latest AT-compatible offerings as "Epic Heresy".
They're a main sponsor of Tabletop_Standard on Youtube who run a lot of the fan-made Epic 30k, using AT models and scale, so I think that's the extent of what that particular item means.
For what it is worth, I have an industry friend who swears to me that Epic Horus Heresy is a box he'll have in hand shortly, and in the past he has indeed gotten and shown me some very early releases. If anything comes of it I will definitely share.
I just wish they'd stop with the nonsense and release xenos Titans. Heck, even design some for the races that don't have them already.
I would throw money at them hand over fist if they were to give the KV128 Stormsurge and KX139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour the Titanicus treatment and fill out the range with a non-Manta walker or two.
Breotan wrote: I just wish they'd stop with the nonsense and release xenos Titans. Heck, even design some for the races that don't have them already.
I would throw money at them hand over fist if they were to give the KV128 Stormsurge and KX139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour the Titanicus treatment and fill out the range with a non-Manta walker or two.
Both of those suits are knight scale units. I'd rather see the Orca and Manta show up for AI.
If any xeno faction was going to be added to AT, orks would make sense to be first. They have the Nauts and squiggoths for scale 3-4, stompas and gargantuan squiggoths for scale 4-5, gargants around scale 7-8, Great gargants at 9-10, and Mega Gargants to scale with the Warmaster. Mechanically, they have more but less accurate firepower, and are slower but a lot tankier.
SamusDrake wrote: Probably means nothing, but Battlebling are labelling their latest AT-compatible offerings as "Epic Heresy".
There is a fairly sizeable community of Epic Heresy players already, and people that just use the AT titans for playing Epic. It's possible that it's just relating to that rather than the guy who makes them having inside info? Who knows.
Andykp wrote: If it’s just HH then it sucks. Epic needs ORKS.
Yeah right but who is buying them?
Depending on price? Epic players in general.
One of the joys of Epic as a snivellin’ Grot of strictly limited means, was pocket money comfortably bought a new Blister, or perhaps plastic box. That in itself was a comfortable expansion of my army.
You got to 4,000 points pretty quickly. And with the 2nd Ed Set coming with not one, not two, but three armies? You had strong encouragement to expand those into more cohesive forces. And….we did.
Of course, that’s 30 or so years ago. And no I’m not expecting the pricing to be the same. Nor do I even have a clue what Pocket Money looks like these days. See rather sensibly I’ve spared humanity one or more mini-me’s running around clogging things up, so I singularly lack the point of reference.
Because when you can make one purchase and have a complete unit ready to go? It kind of feels like better value. Even if the old plastic infantry boxes ring in at £50? You’re still getting an embarrassment of stuff for your money. And it’s all usable. Especially in 2nd Ed Terms, where things could be fielded at company strength, or detachment strength.
(i know this is a bit of a necropost but stick with me)
Man, if they go with a Titanicus pricing structure, it's gonna have a hard time outside the UK. To use the Knights and the US as an example, those cerastus knights are 22GBP, which is roughly 27$. GW charges 35$, decidedly not pocket money. Questoris are 27GBP+33$, they charge 45$, the other cerastus are 45GBP=56$, charges 75$. Etc. Etc.
They're gonna have to be absolutely killer value per-box if they want to have it succeed with that pricing structure. You can see this with the success, or rather, lack thereof of games like Aeronautica and to a lesser extent Titanicus. That 30GBP=37$ box of Thunderbolt Fighters? 50 Fething bucks here. They'll need to be dropping entire companies in a box to make epic work with their current non-UK pricing structure.
(i know this is a bit of a necropost but stick with me)
Man, if they go with a Titanicus pricing structure, it's gonna have a hard time outside the UK. To use the Knights and the US as an example, those cerastus knights are 22GBP, which is roughly 27$. GW charges 35$, decidedly not pocket money. Questoris are 27GBP+33$, they charge 45$, the other cerastus are 45GBP=56$, charges 75$. Etc. Etc.
They're gonna have to be absolutely killer value per-box if they want to have it succeed with that pricing structure. You can see this with the success, or rather, lack thereof of games like Aeronautica and to a lesser extent Titanicus. That 30GBP=37$ box of Thunderbolt Fighters? 50 Fething bucks here. They'll need to be dropping entire companies in a box to make epic work with their current non-UK pricing structure.
Man, if they go with a Titanicus pricing structure, it's gonna have a hard time outside the UK. To use the Knights and the US as an example, those cerastus knights are 22GBP, which is roughly 27$. GW charges 35$, decidedly not pocket money. Questoris are 27GBP+33$, they charge 45$, the other cerastus are 45GBP=56$, charges 75$. Etc. Etc.
They're gonna have to be absolutely killer value per-box if they want to have it succeed with that pricing structure. You can see this with the success, or rather, lack thereof of games like Aeronautica and to a lesser extent Titanicus. That 30GBP=37$ box of Thunderbolt Fighters? 50 Fething bucks here. They'll need to be dropping entire companies in a box to make epic work with their current non-UK pricing structure.
Knights weren't really the focus of AT, so I'm not sure it's fair to compare their pricing to the expected core units in Epic. That said, Knights still got a one-off xmas box with a decent discount.
Thanks to a few factors AT has been really affordable in comparison to other GW games, though that affordability has been mostly focused on the titan models. There's been several points in time where you could put together a full sized maniple for less than you'd need to spend on a 500-1000pt 40k army. I'm confident that will continue for the 'core' Epic units like troops and tanks. Due to the HH setting any starter box will have all of the models usable by one person.
With Knights having more of a role to play against tanks & infantry we may well see them repackaged into better value 'knight lance' boxes for Epic, like how HH now sells two infantry squads together. I do think that Epic aircraft will probably see pricing on par with current AT knights though.
I doubt; where is the 2nd Edition for Necromunda. If they plan a 2nd Edition for AT, they would had it already released in 2021.
Ash Wastes was released in 2022.
A new edition doesn’t need to be a complete redo, it can be a large expansion set.
Of course. And it's entirely possible that the big takeaway from the new, molded base is that new, molded bases are coming to AT.
It's a little frustrating as an AT fan to see people more or less rooting for the game to die so that they can have a limited Epic game. But whatever...what will be will be.
Regarding pricing, new Epic minis would need to be reasonably priced if they want to compete with the third party and 3D print options out there already. I don't know that GW really wants to play in that end of the pool. Then again, it all depends on the business plan. Lots of ways that could go.
Man, if they go with a Titanicus pricing structure, it's gonna have a hard time outside the UK. To use the Knights and the US as an example, those cerastus knights are 22GBP, which is roughly 27$. GW charges 35$, decidedly not pocket money. Questoris are 27GBP+33$, they charge 45$, the other cerastus are 45GBP=56$, charges 75$. Etc. Etc.
They're gonna have to be absolutely killer value per-box if they want to have it succeed with that pricing structure. You can see this with the success, or rather, lack thereof of games like Aeronautica and to a lesser extent Titanicus. That 30GBP=37$ box of Thunderbolt Fighters? 50 Fething bucks here. They'll need to be dropping entire companies in a box to make epic work with their current non-UK pricing structure.
Knights weren't really the focus of AT, so I'm not sure it's fair to compare their pricing to the expected core units in Epic. That said, Knights still got a one-off xmas box with a decent discount.
Thanks to a few factors AT has been really affordable in comparison to other GW games, though that affordability has been mostly focused on the titan models. There's been several points in time where you could put together a full sized maniple for less than you'd need to spend on a 500-1000pt 40k army. I'm confident that will continue for the 'core' Epic units like troops and tanks. Due to the HH setting any starter box will have all of the models usable by one person.
With Knights having more of a role to play against tanks & infantry we may well see them repackaged into better value 'knight lance' boxes for Epic, like how HH now sells two infantry squads together. I do think that Epic aircraft will probably see pricing on par with current AT knights though.
The Knight box was for the 40k 28mm models, let's be clear. I was also just using knights as an example since Doc was. The Titan's are bracketed the same as the Titanicus Knights are. Warhounds? 45GBP, 75$. At 37.50GBP, the reaver is 60$, etc. etc. It Applies to the core models as well.
The Knight box was for the 40k 28mm models, let's be clear.
I was referring to this box:
Spoiler:
ProfSrlojohn wrote: The Titan's are bracketed the same as the Titanicus Knights are. Warhounds? 45GBP, 75$. At 37.50GBP, the reaver is 60$, etc. etc. It Applies to the core models as well.
Reavers & Warhounds are available in the AT starter box for £15 less than the cost of buying the kits separately, which also adds knights, rulebook, tokens, etc. All of those kits can also be picked up cheaply on the second-hand market as a result. In addition there have been AT bundle boxes available at various times containing 1500pts+ at a 30-40% discount. The 2021 box was responsible for kickstarting the game at my local club, with around a dozen people picking up a copy.
I expect that Epic would follow a similar approach, with a large launch boxed set followed later on by a cheaper starter set and limited discount bundles to draw new starters.
The other thing I don't understand is why the Dominus-class Knight has not yet appeared in either HH 2.0, nor AT, and wondering if they're holding it back until the launch of Epic - should it be happening.
SamusDrake wrote: The other thing I don't understand is why the Dominus-class Knight has not yet appeared in either HH 2.0, nor AT, and wondering if they're holding it back until the launch of Epic - should it be happening.
Not the right time period? I don't know the fluff behind that one, but it certainly looks like something the latter-day Mechanicus would cook up.
You might ask when fluff would get in the way of GW selling product, but sometimes it does.
Breotan wrote: I just wish they'd stop with the nonsense and release xenos Titans. Heck, even design some for the races that don't have them already.
I would throw money at them hand over fist if they were to give the KV128 Stormsurge and KX139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour the Titanicus treatment and fill out the range with a non-Manta walker or two.
Both of those suits are knight scale units. I'd rather see the Orca and Manta show up for AI.
If any xeno faction was going to be added to AT, orks would make sense to be first. They have the Nauts and squiggoths for scale 3-4, stompas and gargantuan squiggoths for scale 4-5, gargants around scale 7-8, Great gargants at 9-10, and Mega Gargants to scale with the Warmaster. Mechanically, they have more but less accurate firepower, and are slower but a lot tankier.
Orks are honestly the only faction whose titans even play the same game as imperials.
Gitdakka wrote: I'd say eldar titans and knights also work well. And chaos of course
Squats don't have titans per se, but have superheavy superheavies that could match them.
Outside the Heresy era, Tyranids also have extremely powerful biotitans in the fluff, it's just their tabletop representation that got progressively worse over the editions, mostly due to scale limitiations and not getting buoyed up by the general powercreep other things got over time. To be fluff-accurate they'd need to introduce a new creature at the level the Hierophant usually occupies in the fluff, because the o.g. hierophant got demoted to scout-titan powerlevel and the hierodule barely reaches the power of a current-day knight.
Gitdakka wrote: I'd say eldar titans and knights also work well. And chaos of course
Squats don't have titans per se, but have superheavy superheavies that could match them.
Outside the Heresy era, Tyranids also have extremely powerful biotitans in the fluff, it's just their tabletop representation that got progressively worse over the editions, mostly due to scale limitiations and not getting buoyed up by the general powercreep other things got over time. To be fluff-accurate they'd need to introduce a new creature at the level the Hierophant usually occupies in the fluff, because the o.g. hierophant got demoted to scout-titan powerlevel and the hierodule barely reaches the power of a current-day knight.
The other alternative would be to give the Tyranids the advantage of numbers. The other thing the Tyranid Bio-Titans need is more weapon options. In Epic Hive War, they did but not all of these were converted over and some of those would only have been useful against non-Titan scale targets. FW and GW sort of all collapsed it to "Bio-cannons" and just left it at that, which is rather bland even if the Bio-cannons were made competitive.
Way I see it, there are two scenarios with xenos Titans - 1) what those rules would look like in a new Epic game, and 2) what those rules would look like in AT.
For a slew of reasons, a new but classic style Epic game would have to handle Titans in a much more simplified way than what we see in AT. AT is awesome for simulating Titan battles, but doesn't really even handle Knights well, let alone infantry and tanks and planes and a greater number of units on the tabletop. Starting over with streamlined and separate Titan rules for Epic would probably make it easier to add xenos without creating new issues.
On the other hand, AT as it currently exists is built around more detailed Titan management, and the template is obviously Imperial Titans. As people have pointed out, Orks would be an easy add. They'd fit nicely into the system -- reactors, shields, structure points, etc. (and could be fleshed out nicely with maybe 4 kits and some FW accessories/upgrades). Ork Titans seem like a layup for GW and something that should happen.
GW's conceptual approach with Eldar (and Elves I suppose) in games has been to emphasize speed and make them more fragile but harder to hit, etc. And this track record is a little spotty IMO, as in other games the end result tends to be that they're either over- or underpowered. Or just oddly balanced where they become very rock/paper/scissors. It could be done, but would have to be done thoughtfully, and that might start with not making them too different for the sake of being different. Maybe the best approach for xenos like Eldar, Tyranids, etc. would be to identify a single game component -- shields, structure points, reactor, etc -- that behaves differently for that given faction. That way you're not introducing too many new variables to the Imperial-centric system.
gorgon wrote: Way I see it, there are two scenarios with xenos Titans - 1) what those rules would look like in a new Epic game, and 2) what those rules would look like in AT.
For a slew of reasons, a new but classic style Epic game would have to handle Titans in a much more simplified way than what we see in AT. AT is awesome for simulating Titan battles, but doesn't really even handle Knights well, let alone infantry and tanks and planes and a greater number of units on the tabletop. Starting over with streamlined and separate Titan rules for Epic would probably make it easier to add xenos without creating new issues.
On the other hand, AT as it currently exists is built around more detailed Titan management, and the template is obviously Imperial Titans. As people have pointed out, Orks would be an easy add. They'd fit nicely into the system -- reactors, shields, structure points, etc. (and could be fleshed out nicely with maybe 4 kits and some FW accessories/upgrades). Ork Titans seem like a layup for GW and something that should happen.
GW's conceptual approach with Eldar (and Elves I suppose) in games has been to emphasize speed and make them more fragile but harder to hit, etc. And this track record is a little spotty IMO, as in other games the end result tends to be that they're either over- or underpowered. Or just oddly balanced where they become very rock/paper/scissors. It could be done, but would have to be done thoughtfully, and that might start with not making them too different for the sake of being different. Maybe the best approach for xenos like Eldar, Tyranids, etc. would be to identify a single game component -- shields, structure points, reactor, etc -- that behaves differently for that given faction. That way you're not introducing too many new variables to the Imperial-centric system.
That was already the case with the old Epic 2nd edition system. Eldar Titans had the holofield mechanic but otherwise operated like Imperial Titans with the turning abilities of Imperial scout Titans. Ork Gargants had the fire damage mechanic and power shields instead of void shields but otherwise were pretty conventional. Tyranids had their Wound and regeneration system. So we see from these examples that xenos Titans usually had one major variation in mechanics but otherwise followed the main rules.
Regarding pricing, new Epic minis would need to be reasonably priced if they want to compete with the third party and 3D print options out there already. I don't know that GW really wants to play in that end of the pool. Then again, it all depends on the business plan. Lots of ways that could go.
I don't think any credence at all will be given at all to 3rd party proxies or 3D prints. They will judge that a sizeable percentage of collectors will pay three or four times the amount to have a shrink-wrapped box with a GW logo on it, or pay for a set of rules that will most likely be markedly worse than free-to-download community produced versions.
Conversely though I think a lot of proxy producers will do very well from any Epic relaunch, simply because it will bring so many new players to the scale, and if the prices are high there will a fair proportion of hobbyists who will search around (and be told, by people like me! ) that other brands are available.
Some people have more money than time, others have more time than money. I find that is usually the dividing line between 3D printer users and those who aren't 3D printing
semajnollissor wrote: Some people have more money than time, others have more time than money. I find that is usually the dividing line between 3D printer users and those who aren't 3D printing
3d printing of the at-home variety is a whole new hobby in itself, with a significant buy in both in monetary costs and time and space needs - you need to do research, decide which type and model of printer and printing process to use, need to source it an raw materials, set all of this up, develop your personal workflow for printing, cleaning, waste disposal and so on, and need to avail yourself of printable files and so on. Not everybody wants to develop a completely new hobby to facilitate their original one
I don't think any credence at all will be given at all to 3rd party proxies or 3D prints. They will judge that a sizeable percentage of collectors will pay three or four times the amount to have a shrink-wrapped box with a GW logo on it, or pay for a set of rules that will most likely be markedly worse than free-to-download community produced versions.
Conversely though I think a lot of proxy producers will do very well from any Epic relaunch, simply because it will bring so many new players to the scale, and if the prices are high there will a fair proportion of hobbyists who will search around (and be told, by people like me! ) that other brands are available.
Sounds like everyone ends up a winner, so I would love to see it happen. If it gets more people playing Epic Armageddon/NetEA I am a happy boy!
semajnollissor wrote: Some people have more money than time, others have more time than money. I find that is usually the dividing line between 3D printer users and those who aren't 3D printing
3d printing of the at-home variety is a whole new hobby in itself, with a significant buy in both in monetary costs and time and space needs - you need to do research, decide which type and model of printer and printing process to use, need to source it an raw materials, set all of this up, develop your personal workflow for printing, cleaning, waste disposal and so on, and need to avail yourself of printable files and so on. Not everybody wants to develop a completely new hobby to facilitate their original one
Exactly why I've abstained from 3D printing myself. Two main hobbies (40K stuff & musics) is more than enough time sink already. I can reconsider 3D printing when the tech matures enough to be common in every household, which is still 5-15 years away. In terms of printing tech, the boffins are only just discovering ways to print electronics (based on graphite and water somehow), there's lot of advances still to come on the path towards a genuine "replicator" ala Star Trek
RazorEdge wrote: Valrak repeated in his last Stream yesterday that he is confident that GW will preview Epic at Warhammerfest.
Good to hear
Valrak also got pranked with 4chan rumours about Arks of Omen yesterday and in consequence unlisted the video where he acted all excited about the 'leaks'
gorgon wrote: Way I see it, there are two scenarios with xenos Titans - 1) what those rules would look like in a new Epic game, and 2) what those rules would look like in AT.
For a slew of reasons, a new but classic style Epic game would have to handle Titans in a much more simplified way than what we see in AT. AT is awesome for simulating Titan battles, but doesn't really even handle Knights well, let alone infantry and tanks and planes and a greater number of units on the tabletop. Starting over with streamlined and separate Titan rules for Epic would probably make it easier to add xenos without creating new issues.
On the other hand, AT as it currently exists is built around more detailed Titan management, and the template is obviously Imperial Titans. As people have pointed out, Orks would be an easy add. They'd fit nicely into the system -- reactors, shields, structure points, etc. (and could be fleshed out nicely with maybe 4 kits and some FW accessories/upgrades). Ork Titans seem like a layup for GW and something that should happen.
GW's conceptual approach with Eldar (and Elves I suppose) in games has been to emphasize speed and make them more fragile but harder to hit, etc. And this track record is a little spotty IMO, as in other games the end result tends to be that they're either over- or underpowered. Or just oddly balanced where they become very rock/paper/scissors. It could be done, but would have to be done thoughtfully, and that might start with not making them too different for the sake of being different. Maybe the best approach for xenos like Eldar, Tyranids, etc. would be to identify a single game component -- shields, structure points, reactor, etc -- that behaves differently for that given faction. That way you're not introducing too many new variables to the Imperial-centric system.
Knights will get a saving throw and maybe an invulnerable save. That´s it. Titans need a proper damage chart with locations. Anything else dumbs down the appeal of the titan.
semajnollissor wrote: Some people have more money than time, others have more time than money. I find that is usually the dividing line between 3D printer users and those who aren't 3D printing
3d printing of the at-home variety is a whole new hobby in itself, with a significant buy in both in monetary costs and time and space needs - you need to do research, decide which type and model of printer and printing process to use, need to source it an raw materials, set all of this up, develop your personal workflow for printing, cleaning, waste disposal and so on, and need to avail yourself of printable files and so on. Not everybody wants to develop a completely new hobby to facilitate their original one
Agreed. I was on the fence about purchasing a printer although I couldn´t afford to turn one of my living rooms into a laboratory with all the fumes and chemicals being present. So nope. However the third party retailer may really help you out. I need to see, if I can get such stuff in Germany.
Sarouan wrote: At this point, this thread should be renamed "Valrak's Epic Circus". It would be more accurate.
To be honest, there's really nothing concrete about GW announcing a real Epic return in the near future, just hopes and dust.
The lack of real information is what helps perpetuate it. It's one of those rumormonger cycles that you see across different interests and industries. The next phase is folks getting upset with the company because the thing that was never promised to happen didn't happen. Just saw this recently with some fans who got upset that an actor that was rumored to be playing a certain role...isn't. Apparently he was never up for it, but they're pissed, lol. They were so sure just because of internet rumors and the way they reinforced them with each other. You see this happening all the time everywhere anymore.
To be clear, an Epic announcement is certainly a possibility. But even if it happens, that could be a TOW-style announcement for all we know.
It was earlier in the thread that Epic coming was from a good source and that being at Warhammerfest was his speculation.
Seems less and less likely.
New 40k is the headline for warhammer fest, and stuff for HH and OW is already confirmed by GW in the respective articles this week.
Likely a full look at the lizard range for AoS as well, because that's Soon.
Given that GW preview shows are usually less than expected, that's a pretty full deck, plus whichever teams, warbands, etc from the skirmish games.
What? I am referring to Epic being at Fest...that is my speculation, not Epic itself
They only need to show a Teaser at WH Fest and announce it official in the late Summer to get released in early Autumn. Wouldn't be the first time they tease something only with a very short glimes of a nothing saying Teaser.
There was never a rumor saying Epic getting released earlier than Autumn.
What? I am referring to Epic being at Fest...that is my speculation, not Epic itself
They only need to show a Teaser at WH Fest and announce it official in the late Summer to get released in early Autumn. Wouldn't be the first time they tease something only with a very short glimes of a nothing saying Teaser.
There was never a rumor saying Epic getting released earlier than Autumn.
I can completely see a final trailer at Fest...nothing but flames and the sounds of machinery, and then a voiceover states "Something EPIC is coming" and the video ends.
Thanks again to the Warhammer: The Old World team! There’s plenty more to come from development diaries in the future – and you may just hear even more at Warhammer Fest, which kicks off on Saturday the 29th of April.
Will this leave room for Epic? The plot thickens...
Sacredroach wrote: I can completely see a final trailer at Fest...nothing but flames and the sounds of machinery, and then a voiceover states "Something EPIC is coming" and the video ends.
This is exactly the type of EPIC tease I expect, if we do get any at all. Expecting EPIC armies to be on display is way too much, but I could very well see the first official GW hint at new EPIC being revealed at Fest.
Thanks again to the Warhammer: The Old World team! There’s plenty more to come from development diaries in the future – and you may just hear even more at Warhammer Fest, which kicks off on Saturday the 29th of April.
Will this leave room for Epic? The plot thickens...
I think people underestimate what GW wants Warhammer-Fest to be... it's not just a 90 minute Seminar at some third-party con or tournament, it's their main event for this half-year, and after years of forced meagre imitations online due to Corona and related problems. If there is one event where they'll pull all the stops it will be this one.
Sacredroach wrote: I can completely see a final trailer at Fest...nothing but flames and the sounds of machinery, and then a voiceover states "Something EPIC is coming" and the video ends.
Yeah I think that this is the best we can expect to get for now. Probably no details or models shown until after 40k has released. A Summer/Autumn release for Epic is too close both to 40k 10e and last year's HH release to sell as much as it could.
Meanwhile Fantasy has the opposite issue - a new AOS edition is almost certainly coming next Summer, so to avoid cannibilising the same customers GW need to push TOW out sooner rather than later. After today's article TOW is likely to be first in the queue before Epic.
Faeit has been pushing the same Epic rumours year after year. You can go to his page (not that I want to encourage traffic there) and search for epic and find the same kind of rumour report for almost every year since specialist games were removed (2012). This carried on until it bled into ATs release reviews, then it became 'AT is morphing into Epic soon'. They even deleted one such report a few years back, after it caused a bit of a stir and they did some major backtracking.
One day they will be right. One day, all those youtubers regurgitating faeit rumours as 'My close GW friend says...' will also be right. Epic will be back and these folk will be patting themselves on their backs for being so awesome.
Until the game is announced by GW, best to just not think about it as we would just be setting ourselves up for disappointment. I put more stock in the fact that Duncan painted epic models a few weeks ago and that new channel with the woman from W+ has the Epic gargant on display behind her.
But are GW really going to push a 'new' scale marine only game whilst 28mm HH sales are strong and with the 10th Ed of big 40k on the horizon? Doubtful.
(That all said: even if a HH only release would be the worst version of the Epic I could think of, I'd probably still buy multiple copies of any starter set to bulk out my collection. I'd not touch the a HH only ruleset though, unless it came with a voucher for a free gaming session with Andy Chambers himself. New models are grand, new GW rules go straight in the bin! )
But are GW really going to push a 'new' scale marine only game whilst 28mm HH sales are strong and with the 10th Ed of big 40k on the horizon? Doubtful.
Thing is they don't have to compete with each other. Epic appeals on different mindset than 40k scale games. Just because you don't sell epic doesn't mean that money goes to 40k/hh. Rather it means it goes to non-gw.
The reason that I believe that a new version of epic is going to happen in the near term is that GW hasn’t released any new plastics for AT or AI in 18 months.
That COULD be because they’ve been using that team’s production time to make infantry/vehicles for that scale.
Of course, it could also mean that GW had simply silently cancelled those games.
I chose to believe the former. I’m still on the fence about the likelihood of an announcement at Warhammer Fest. This close to it, I would have expected to see a few leaked photos of stuff.
RexHavoc wrote: But are GW really going to push a 'new' scale marine only game whilst 28mm HH sales are strong and with the 10th Ed of big 40k on the horizon? Doubtful.
Not the same audience. Also Epic & 40k existed at the same Time in the past.
We also got Rules for Skimishing in Spaceships for 40k while KT exist.
semajnollissor wrote: The reason that I believe that a new version of epic is going to happen in the near term is that GW hasn’t released any new plastics for AT or AI in 18 months.
That COULD be because they’ve been using that team’s production time to make infantry/vehicles for that scale.
Of course, it could also mean that GW had simply silently cancelled those games.
I chose to believe the former. I’m still on the fence about the likelihood of an announcement at Warhammer Fest. This close to it, I would have expected to see a few leaked photos of stuff.
Or it could be that the specialist games team were tied up with HH2.0.
As I put in the AT thread; the only solid information we have about the whole "Epic scale" side of GW is that the titans are due some C-Beam weapons.
My cautious hope is this; Its been a while since those FW products were announced, and we're getting towards May with Warhammer Fest at the end of April. Warhammer Fest would be a good time to announce something for Adeptus Titanicus, at least, to coincide with those FW releases. Also, in The Defence of Ryza, they did say that Renegade banners would be covered in a later supplement...
After that, its all rumours, speculation and word around the campfire.
RazorEdge wrote: It also could be that those Conversion Beam Weapons will be the last AT releases unter the Name of this Game.
I usually get pulled over, dragged kicking and screaming out of my car, handcuffed and beaten with sticks by fellow Dakka members for insinuating that Adeptus Titanicus is getting the chop.
RazorEdge wrote: It also could be that those Conversion Beam Weapons will be the last AT releases unter the Name of this Game.
I usually get pulled over, dragged kicking and screaming out of my car, handcuffed and beaten with sticks by fellow Dakka members for insinuating that Adeptus Titanicus is getting the chop.
I guess there's still one light scout titan (the Rapier) coming, which they namedropped several times, and then their planned run is finished, at least as far as Titans go. They'll have the original 3, plus two intermediary classes between them, and one supralight and one superheavy chassis on either side of the original lineup. It would be ace if they ever got around to doing the two Imperator variants as well, but that seems unlikely for now. The Rapier should be much less costly to produce, as it is probably barely bigger than a large knight.
I am still convinced myself that a rerelease of Epic is coming, but I am no longer certain it will be previewed at WHF (The Old World and #New40K need the spotlight for now)
Several little things point towards this IMO: GW's own phrasing inidicating that Epic is "temporarily" OOP, HH 2.0 suddenly dropping to HH 1.0 level of support (no new plastic kits coming in the near future), and then there's lil Louise going freelance with her painting videos and hinting at Epic in her first video. Even if I didn't hear about Valrak's "trusted sources" about the relaunch, all that would already sound suspicious.
So AT wraps thinggs up, leaving the table for something new to fill the void.. what could it be? Sure as flock aint HH 2.0, since they just went into "resin releases only for now" life support
Heck, maybe we'll see some sort of Epic HH tease on WHF after all
A printed book represents a financial investment in AT, otherwise it’d just be a EPUB.
I suspect that means either they’re consolidating books to make it easier for new players to buy in when they release an expansion, or to have it as a tidy standalone when they release epic.
RazorEdge wrote: Some Rumors say AT will stay alongside with Epic but with reduced Range or something.
If we assume that the Titans will be useable in Epic (which is the starting point of all of this) it makes sense to keep AT 'alive' with a handful of books, the cardboard control panels etc. and maybe doing the weapons and accessories as made-to-order pieces in regular intervals or something like that. That can't cost a lot of money.
twentypence wrote: A printed book represents a financial investment in AT, otherwise it’d just be a EPUB.
I suspect that means either they’re consolidating books to make it easier for new players to buy in when they release an expansion, or to have it as a tidy standalone when they release epic.
Yeah.
The video said that they're also bringing back the stratagem cards and the Open War deck(!), which aren't signs of a game that's about to die. The cards been OOP for ages, and there's no reason to bring them back now or compile the campaign books unless you're looking to bring new people into the game. I know that's disappointing for some people to hear.
twentypence wrote: A printed book represents a financial investment in AT, otherwise it’d just be a EPUB.
I suspect that means either they’re consolidating books to make it easier for new players to buy in when they release an expansion, or to have it as a tidy standalone when they release epic.
Yeah.
The video said that they're also bringing back the stratagem cards and the Open War deck(!), which aren't signs of a game that's about to die. The cards been OOP for ages, and there's no reason to bring them back now or compile the campaign books unless you're looking to bring new people into the game. I know that's disappointing for some people to hear.
Another wave of releases for AT is the next best thing to a new edition of Epic, at least it builds up the number of things in that scale - that we'll see Epic reborn sooner or later is a given, i personally don't care if it takes some years yet. I expect nothing, and thus am not really disappointed.
Gw is putting great effort in launching The Old World and every other game - excluding 40k and Aos maybe - know scarce support in this moment. I think and hope this is not the end for this great game.
And Epic was going to be announced at Adepticon, then it was going to be announced for sure at WarhammerFest, now oops that was just speculation.
Valrak remains on his standing point of 'My trusted sources say it is coming this year, i'm making gak up as for when precisely, repeatedly confusing my audience then pedaling back when being called out on it'
Johanxp wrote: Gw is putting great effort in launching The Old World and every other game - excluding 40k and Aos maybe - know scarce support in this moment. I think and hope this is not the end for this great game.
The end of the game will come when nobody plays it anymore and not if GW doesn't release new content every month :-) Once Epic comes and you can play titans there, I think there will always be people who just want to play titans . AT will never die!
As a side system to Epic with sporadic releases (weapons, books) I can live great, the basic rules are great and apart from the Acastus there are no major design flaws in my opinion
and then there's lil Louise going freelance with her painting videos and hinting at Epic in her first video. Even if I didn't hear about Valrak's "trusted sources" about the relaunch, all that would already sound suspicious.
There is no hint in the Louise Sugden video, she jus shows an epic mini alongside a chibi marine and MacFarlane toy just to illustrate how much she loves painting Rainbow Warriors, on whichever mini..
Unless we are also saying there is a new 40k chibihammer game being released following that rumour
As a side system to Epic with sporadic releases (weapons, books) I can live great, the basic rules are great and apart from the Acastus there are no major design flaws in my opinion
The Questoris avenger-cannon, and Castigator bolt-cannon, are also a design disaster. I honestly didn't think it could get any worse until the Acastus said "hold my beer...".
As a side system to Epic with sporadic releases (weapons, books) I can live great, the basic rules are great and apart from the Acastus there are no major design flaws in my opinion
The Questoris avenger-cannon, and Castigator bolt-cannon, are also a design disaster. I honestly didn't think it could get any worse until the Acastus said "hold my beer...".
Well, they are anti-infantry weapons in a game designed for Knights and larger. Included for completeness, not really as a viable option.
The Acastus, if Turbolasers didn't have blast, the Acastus Guns should not have it. And Plasma Blastguns could possibly do with a 1 point drop in strength.
No Epic at Warhammer Fest, at least according to the Warhammer Community website.
Confirmation of a Warhammer: the Old World presentation, though.
"The full launch box for the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 will be revealed at Warhammer Fest – but that’s just one of five (yep, FIVE!) separate live previews spread out over the weekend.
Others will cover Warhammer Age of Sigmar, Horus Heresy: Age of Darkness, Warhammer: The Old World, Warhammer Underworlds, Middle-earth™ Strategy Battle Game, Warcry, and Kill Team."
Unless you think Epic will be in the Horus Heresy presentation, which I strongly doubt.
semajnollissor wrote: No Epic at Warhammer Fest, at least according to the Warhammer Community website.
Confirmation of a Warhammer: the Old World presentation, though.
"The full launch box for the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 will be revealed at Warhammer Fest – but that’s just one of five (yep, FIVE!) separate live previews spread out over the weekend.
Others will cover Warhammer Age of Sigmar, Horus Heresy: Age of Darkness, Warhammer: The Old World, Warhammer Underworlds, Middle-earth™ Strategy Battle Game, Warcry, and Kill Team."
Unless you think Epic will be in the Horus Heresy presentation, which I strongly doubt.
Eh, they still can show a mini-teaser at the end of the HH presentation, or alternatively put some actual Epic miniatures in the background of some dramatic HH shots and have people going crazy over it
Why would anyone expect an Epic logo to be shown at this point when GW hasn't publicly said anything about the game aside from its "abeyance"? Besides, its not even going to be named "Epic" anymore as it supposedly happens during the Heresy
If Epic was to be revealed at Warhammer Fest, they would have made a blank/mystery logo. It won't be teased in another game's section in any way.
People just have to accept the fact Valrak was bullshitting once again, that's all. It's not for this time. But no worry, his prophecy will eventually come true one day.
RazorEdge wrote: If they tease Epic at WHF; Why should the announce a (maybe) surprise Teaser for the End?
If they were cool they'd just sneak some nu-Epic miniatures among the old ones in the "40 years of Warhammer" display cabinets without much ado or comment and let people find out for themselves
Look, IDGAF about Valrak being right or not. He's a youtuber, and I typically dislike 99,5% of tubers. I still dont see impossible we wont get anything about the relaunch, but am man enough to admit being wrong on Monday if nothing happens. This is not a hill I'm willing to die on any time soon
Well, they are anti-infantry weapons in a game designed for Knights and larger. Included for completeness, not really as a viable option.
The Acastus, if Turbolasers didn't have blast, the Acastus Guns should not have it. And Plasma Blastguns could possibly do with a 1 point drop in strength.
I won't derail the thread too much with details for non-Epic gameplay, but in a nutshell we had to write our own versions of the rapid-fire weapons so that they scale better with the Warhound's megabolter. We also found that our substitute rules dramatically decreased the impractical number of dice required for these weapons.
The Acastus...oh dear. We left the Asterius alone, but the Porphyrion we still had problems with; not just in what it can do, but GW's auxiliary rule is as bad as if they suddenly declared the Warlord an auxilary unit. Its only a single change, but replace the blast trait with ordinance; no more awkward scatter rolls and they won't hit as much. The only thing they gain from this is re-rolling armour rolls of 1, but even the Questoris battle-cannon enjoys this trait. This also gives them a unique role of nutcracker, compared to the blast-radius antics of the Asterius. This isn't the only improvement the Porphyrion needs, but its an easy one to implement that at least removes unnecessary drama such as banning.
tauist wrote: So AT wraps thinggs up, leaving the table for something new to fill the void.. what could it be? Sure as flock aint HH 2.0, since they just went into "resin releases only for now" life support
Heck, maybe we'll see some sort of Epic HH tease on WHF after all
"resin only except of course all the plastic infantry we said are coming".
Surely you remember gw flat out said more plastic infantry is coming?
Johanxp wrote: Gw is putting great effort in launching The Old World and every other game - excluding 40k and Aos maybe - know scarce support in this moment. I think and hope this is not the end for this great game.
The end of the game will come when nobody plays it anymore and not if GW doesn't release new content every month :-) Once Epic comes and you can play titans there, I think there will always be people who just want to play titans . AT will never die!
As a side system to Epic with sporadic releases (weapons, books) I can live great, the basic rules are great and apart from the Acastus there are no major design flaws in my opinion
You are surely right - I still play original 1995 Warhammer Quest. But we can't deny that when they do not sell or support a game anymore majority of people usually shift to other system and become more and more difficult to find players. In my area WHFB suffered a sudden death when GW killed it.
I think this was a reference to the Ork Mega-Gargant box placed clearly in the background.
Yes but she also had a copy of Trollz in the Pantry expansion, "Oi dats my leg" in the background as well. Does there need to be a rumour that that game is coming back too?
Sarouan wrote: If Epic was to be revealed at Warhammer Fest, they would have made a blank/mystery logo.
When did this happened the last time? Long ago...
There is also more than Valrak.
Cursed City wasn't that long ago. And yes, these rumors don't have only Valrak as source, but he's certainly the most vocal about it lately.
GW has a very tight schedule on Warhammer Fest, once they have released it they won't make surprise reveals for unrelated stuffs in events that are labeled for a specific game system. Sure, you may hope they do, but that only leads to disappointment in the end.
I think it's way too early for a proper Epic reveal, if there is at all this year or the year after.
Sarouan wrote: GW has a very tight schedule on Warhammer Fest, once they have released it they won't make surprise reveals for unrelated stuffs in events that are labeled for a specific game system. Sure, you may hope they do, but that only leads to disappointment in the end.
I think it's way too early for a proper Epic reveal, if there is at all this year or the year after.
I agree. If, and that’s a huge *IF*, they announce anything, I think we’ll just get a “watch the skies” AI style teaser at the end of the Horus Heresy section, with the message that it’s coming in the future.
Personally, I think with 10th Ed 40k and The Old World coming there won’t be sufficient spare plastic production capacity for the rest of the year.
twentypence wrote: A printed book represents a financial investment in AT, otherwise it’d just be a EPUB.
I suspect that means either they’re consolidating books to make it easier for new players to buy in when they release an expansion, or to have it as a tidy standalone when they release epic.
Yeah.
The video said that they're also bringing back the stratagem cards and the Open War deck(!), which aren't signs of a game that's about to die. The cards been OOP for ages, and there's no reason to bring them back now or compile the campaign books unless you're looking to bring new people into the game. I know that's disappointing for some people to hear.
Well the release of those cards hasn’t gone quite to plan.
On the other hand, those card packs were only mentioned in last Sunday's "Coming Soon" video, and not the article. It might be an error where they could only manage editing the article and not the video.
Considering that almost every single thing Valrak said was coming was confirmed, including stuff like more Knights moving to plastic, the specific HH characters etc. i think we can take his insistence that Epic:HH was coming as confirmation.
Sarouan wrote: If Epic was to be revealed at Warhammer Fest, they would have made a blank/mystery logo. It won't be teased in another game's section in any way.
People just have to accept the fact Valrak was bullshitting once again, that's all. It's not for this time. But no worry, his prophecy will eventually come true one day.
Anyone hazard a guess if this will be out before or after TOW? I get the feeling TOW won't be this year.
Personally I'd rather they wrap up some of the other side games first, I already can't keep up with everything and frankly neither can GW, there are still games with missing, nonfunctional or barely functional factions and they're adding more games that will be half done for years to come instead of completing something.
lord_blackfang wrote: Anyone hazard a guess if this will be out before or after TOW? I get the feeling TOW won't be this year.
Personally I'd rather they wrap up some of the other side games first, I already can't keep up with everything and frankly neither can GW, there are still games with nonfunctional or barely functional factions and they're adding more instead of completing something.
Valrak said it will come at the end of the year. From what we've seen, it is not clear that TOW will have any product this year, as GW themselves seem to be unclear about where they're going with that. They mentioned 'Army book equivalents' in the stream, and not much else. I would have guessed that they'd want to launch at least some token product this year to catch in on the '40 years of Warhammer', but even that seems to be increasingly unlikely.
lord_blackfang wrote: Personally I'd rather they wrap up some of the other side games first, I already can't keep up with everything and frankly neither can GW, there are still games with missing, nonfunctional or barely functional factions and they're adding more games that will be half done for years to come instead of completing something.
Blood Bowl might be going into a hibernation period soon, the game is missing just a couple teams in plastic.Titanicus is probably wrapped as a rules set and the line's getting merged into Epic. Same for Aeronautica.
Dunno how Underworlds are doing, haven't played it since the second season came out.
I really think it's a shame if it turns out to be Horus Heresy only. Swapping all that variety for Space Marines vs Space Marines. Hopefully it just turns out to be the start and it gets expanded, but that didn't happen with Adeptus Titanicus.
They've basically set up their Epic-related releases to gradually test the waters with customers before committing to 40k. Aeronautica is set in 40k after all, so it's not like that haven't already made steps in that direction. The plans are clearly in place. It's just a matter of whether or not customers show enough interest.
The only scenario in which Epic doesn't eventually expand to 40k is if Epic 30k is somehow incredibly unpopular.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I really think it's a shame if it turns out to be Horus Heresy only. Swapping all that variety for Space Marines vs Space Marines. Hopefully it just turns out to be the start and it gets expanded, but that didn't happen with Adeptus Titanicus.
As I told a friend, although I'm sure they'll sell out of their big box launch sets, there are plenty of folks who are gonna give it a NOPE if they don't have other factions available. I'm one of them. I have epic Tyranids already, and I'm not gonna buy a ton of tiny SMs too just because I have some AT titans. And even if I was interested, there isn't a need to buy them from GW at what will almost certainly be high prices for tiny minis.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
artific3r wrote: They've basically set up their Epic-related releases to gradually test the waters with customers before committing to 40k. Aeronautica is set in 40k after all, so it's not like that haven't already made steps in that direction. The plans are clearly in place. It's just a matter of whether or not customers show enough interest.
The only scenario in which Epic doesn't eventually expand to 40k is if Epic 30k is somehow incredibly unpopular.
Well, there's 'gradually' and then there's 'glacially'. AT is going on 5 years old and is still mono-faction and missing Titan classes that they teased years ago. And by all accounts it sold well. How well does Epic have to sell to get other factions before 2028? And are there really even any plans for 40K factions if they're rolling it out as a HH product to begin with? So they have to immediately rebox everything? I think it's legit to question their commitment past HH and SMs in particular.
The issue/risk with 'dipping a toe in' with a product launch is that it may only collect a commensurate amount of customer interest. Often you have to go big in order for something to hit big. Maybe their business plan is very conservative. That's fine, but going back to Mentlegen's comment, it would be a shame that a game with a history of variety would be pared down to such a limited concept.
gorgon wrote: Well, there's 'gradually' and then there's 'glacially'. AT is going on 5 years old and is still mono-faction and missing Titan classes that they teased years ago. And by all accounts it sold well. How well does Epic have to sell to get other factions before 2028? And are there really even any plans for 40K factions if they're rolling it out as a HH product to begin with? So they have to immediately rebox everything? I think it's legit to question their commitment past HH and SMs in particular.
The issue/risk with 'dipping a toe in' with a product launch is that it may only collect a commensurate amount of customer interest. Often you have to go big in order for something to hit big. Maybe their business plan is very conservative. That's fine, but going back to Mentlegen's comment, it would be a shame that a game with a history of variety would be pared down to such a limited concept.
Sure, glacially. That's just how it's going to be for a niche within a niche product like this.
It makes a lot of sense to limit it to the Horus Heresy setting at first. You only need to develop a single faction and you get to gauge interest in what would undoubtedly be the most popular faction in Epic 40k. If you can't sell space marines at this scale, no way you're going to sell things like Genestealer Cult or Sisters of Battle. Yeah, sometimes you have to go big to hit big, but clearly they are not so confident in hitting big with something as niche as this. When the risk is so great, the options are slow and steady, or nothing at all.
I still think that either bring xenos from the beginning or do not even start. But who knows, maybe I am totally wrong, and it will be able to survive as 
(it's not, but you get my drift xD)
I mean...you can play Epic NOW with minis of superheavies that look great and cost a fraction of what a 
