Big fan of the minis in the box, although the lack of terrain is drawback and I'd be keen to see if the price reflects that. Same goes for the fact you'll need an extra box of Inquisition minis to complete the set.
Also - correct me if I'm wrong, but only one Sister of Silence is included?
Tyranid Horde wrote: Big fan of the minis in the box, although the lack of terrain is drawback and I'd be keen to see if the price reflects that. Same goes for the fact you'll need an extra box of Inquisition minis to complete the set.
Also - correct me if I'm wrong, but only one Sister of Silence is included?
There is a x5 next to the single Sister, so I think it is a full sprue.
Honestly, from a minis perspective it's pretty good, especially if you're someone who:
1. Loves the Inquisition.
2. Doesn't own any of the Cultist models.
3. Specifically needs 5 more Storm Troopers and 5 more Sisters of Silence.
I admit the amount of people that probably fall into that last category might be somewhat rare...
And this is a palate cleanser release as well as them trying something a bit different before diving into a new season (a season which will hopefully bring us overgrown ruins and crashed ship terrain! ).
Meeeh, 1 copy of a new sprue of dual-build models that you'll want at least 2 of, plus an absolute truckload of old sprues, isn't the most efficient/friendly sales model (even if HBMC lucked out this time)
Could take things in a more Inquisitor playstyle direction?
Who knows - they said it was 'the first narrative play expansion' which to me implies that it's not gonna stay the only one.
The game can theoretically expand in a lot of ways, but the most obvious ones are to have stuff like 'bosses' (the old old WDKT rules had stuff like 'adversaries', pretty much movie villain end bosses like grotesque supermutants, robots etc.), neutral monsters like the Ambull and then 'elite' KillTeams like a couple of Lictors etc.; if they play their cards right, continuing KT as the 'weird stuff' system would let it replace a lot of the one-off boardgames like BSF, and give it years of life. It's also pretty much inofficial INQ28 already, which is a very good thing. This box alone basically doubles as a INQ28 starter set.
I think GW has sort of hit on a genius way to pad the bottom line while also appearing like they are providing value, by bundling new stuff in with old stuff but at a discount price.
Assuming this hovers around the $200 price point, this is going to be a decent savings on $285 in minis (assuming the Inquisition is a standard $60 Kill team box)
It's a good one for me too -- love the inquisition, love chaos cultists, somehow don't seem to own any of *those* chaos cultists despite having multiples of the ones from the old starter set (6th edition?) and multiples of the ones from Blackstone Fortress.
Actually, put me in the "I could actually use both 5 more Stormtroopers and Sisters" category. I don't play Kill Team, but all of these are useful in my buddy's RPG.
Box set looks pretty neat, but the price point it will be at is probably going to be pretty crazy considering it is likely over 300$ worth of models going by msrp, not including the booklets and such. I could easily see this at 200-250$.
warboss wrote: I thought I saw some primaris intercessors in a kill team box on a youtube preview. Was that an old release or something revealed this time too?
I think that was the new Space Marine Heroes set which is also getting KT rules for the dudes?
warboss wrote: I thought I saw some primaris intercessors in a kill team box on a youtube preview. Was that an old release or something revealed this time too?
That's the Japanese 'Space Marine Heros' blind buy product, apparently they now get Kill Team rules.
warboss wrote: I thought I saw some primaris intercessors in a kill team box on a youtube preview. Was that an old release or something revealed this time too?
I think that was the new Space Marine Heroes set which is also getting KT rules for the dudes?
Tsagualsa wrote:
warboss wrote: I thought I saw some primaris intercessors in a kill team box on a youtube preview. Was that an old release or something revealed this time too?
That's the Japanese 'Space Marine Heros' blind buy product, apparently they now get Kill Team rules.
Ah, thanks. That was the one that excited me a little as I like the basic intercessor style design and it had a combo of loadouts.
These characterful new Space Marines will be available first from select specialist retailers this summer, followed by a wider release at a later date. Keep an eye out for more information on when and where you can get yours.
Worth mentioning that they confirmed via FB or Twitter(I couldn't find the exact post referenced on B&C) that buying a full carton nets you all 8 plus an extra of the aiming bolt rifle figure.
The scions sprue(s?) are great for kit bashing to be fair, especially the commander jacket, so I'm always after more.
Every other model in the box I do not own.
However, now I've seen the model options, I am mightily tempted to kitbash the inquisition models instead as I would want them to be very un-uniformed and individual from most other peoples versions.
With the abundance of Lost and Damned-style releases this edition (Cultists, Traitor Guard, Beastmen, Mutants- ), I hope Mere Mortals is going away in 10th so I can actually field the damn things.
FIamingUndeadRoman wrote: With the abundance of Lost and Damned-style releases this edition (Cultists, Traitor Guard, Beastmen, Mutants- ), I hope Mere Mortals is going away in 10th so I can actually field the damn things.
Or, a lost and the damned army in general, with accompanying CSM enforcers etc.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It has to be five, given how the sprues work.
Honestly, from a minis perspective it's pretty good, especially if you're someone who:
1. Loves the Inquisition.
2. Doesn't own any of the Cultist models.
3. Specifically needs 5 more Storm Troopers and 5 more Sisters of Silence.
I admit the amount of people that probably fall into that last category might be somewhat rare...
As it happens, this is pretty much me...
What a coincidence!
Actually I’m basically neutral on the scions but everything else is a win for me, even the narrative play mode expansion.
Same here, this is one box I do not need to split
Can I also take a moment to commend Kid_Kyoto’s impeccable timing; he wanted to kill the old thread to get rid of the “first unread” issue and managed to end it with a blank first unread page!
Honestly, from a minis perspective it's pretty good, especially if you're someone who:
1. Loves the Inquisition.
2. Doesn't own any of the Cultist models.
3. Specifically needs 5 more Storm Troopers and 5 more Sisters of Silence.
Points 1 and 3 apply to me. Already have the cultists, and don't want more. Depending on price, I may buy. Still, I'd prefer buying two Inquisitorial Agents boxes, assuming GW eventually sells them separately.
I do love the Inquisition, and don't have any of the cult units, and only just got a few sisters of silence but... it's not working for me.
The Inquisitor henchmen are really bland. They're all in stoic pose mode and only have a little of that gribbly detail that I'd be looking for. As a base for conversions, sure, but not as they stand. And they only give you 7? Come on!
Seems there are more people who want Inquisition, Cultists and have a strange need for both Scions and Sisters of Silence than I anticipated.
The Power Cosmic wrote: The Inquisitor henchmen are really bland. They're all in stoic pose mode and only have a little of that gribbly detail that I'd be looking for. As a base for conversions, sure, but not as they stand. And they only give you 7? Come on!
Technically it's only 4, as 1 is a Servo-Skull, another is the Lex-Mechanic (who I resume has zero build options), and the other is the Gun-Servitor. That leaves 4 guys with 2 builds each.
But I think that combining a couple of sets of those with even one or two of these would give you some good combinations and options.
1) New plastic Inquisition miniatures which I can kitbash to my hearts content
2) New Inquisition rules for Kill Team, so I can use said Kitbashes. Also I love that they can take ancillary support groups. I have a kitbashed Inquisitional Stormtrooper from the Scion kit and now I'll have to make more.
3) Cultist rules for Kill Team, and sweet cultist miniatures which I have none of.
4) A full Narrative Kill Team campaign, which is exactly what I have been looking forward to.
Also with all this new Chaos stuff coming for Kill Team, how cool would it be to see a Lost and the Damned Army for 10th? Combat Patrol could be a box of Cultists, Box of Traitor Guard, a Box of Beastmen, and a box of Chaos Marines with the Cultist leader set or a Marine hero.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Seems there are more people who want Inquisition, Cultists and have a strange need for both Scions and Sisters of Silence than I anticipated.
The Power Cosmic wrote: The Inquisitor henchmen are really bland. They're all in stoic pose mode and only have a little of that gribbly detail that I'd be looking for. As a base for conversions, sure, but not as they stand. And they only give you 7? Come on!
Technically it's only 4, as 1 is a Servo-Skull, another is the Lex-Mechanic (who I resume has zero build options), and the other is the Gun-Servitor. That leaves 4 guys with 2 builds each.
But I think that combining a couple of sets of those with even one or two of these would give you some good combinations and options.
I’m wondering whether they’ll release the whole Inquisition squad, or whether the 4 dual-pose guys are on a separate sprue, to be released in a mini box, much like the hive scum?
FIamingUndeadRoman wrote: With the abundance of Lost and Damned-style releases this edition (Cultists, Traitor Guard, Beastmen, Mutants- ), I hope Mere Mortals is going away in 10th so I can actually field the damn things.
That would be lovely, but the lack of autoguns for the cultists would continue to be a struggle.
Also, why did they just drop the Cultist Firebrand out a window?
Mildly interested in this box, but I'll need to wait for better images of the new minis, particularly the mutants and torments, to be sure. I don't have any of the repeat minis like the Scions, so that's not a problem for me.l
Why does this (incorrectly titled) new thread exist? Last I checked, the game was still called KT21, even if we are in 2023.. Anyways, as long as we dont end up with duplicate threads which split the traffic, it's OK with me.
I think Ashes of Faith will turn out to be decent value (only 1 new kit in the box). Not a fan of the Scions, old stumpy guard torsos are yucky, but I'm up for everything else. Just adding two Custodes models to the set gives you a Compendium team as well, and I've been thinking about building a mixed Custodes+SoS team since Compendium was released. Actually, I'm most interested in the reusable stickers thing, that's a new thing for GW innit? I wonder how they will work on a non-cardboard terrain board though..
It's interesting that they squeezed such a narrative box between the regular Seasonal cycle. If it fares well (comes down to the price), I could see more of these coming down the line, like 1 box every season or so.
You will also be able to use both teams in regular KT21 matched play, and GW already confirmed the Inq retinue will get released individually later like other bespoke KT21 teams.
As for needing 2 kits for all the team options one could have for a roster, this is nothing new, almost every bespoke team works like that. You'd know this if you played KT21... but somehow seems to me like many of you only care about the models
tauist wrote: Why does this (incorrectly titled) new thread exist? Last I checked, the game was still called KT21, even if we are in 2023.. Anyways, as long as we dont end up with duplicate threads which split the traffic, it's OK with me.
The original thread was afflicted with the Dakka End of Page Curse, so it has been locked by a MOD and this new thread created in its place.
Given we're in 2023 when this thread was created, the MOD has put 2023 in the title. Locking the old thread should stop people trying to post in there.
Talking Banana wrote: Mildly interested in this box, but I'll need to wait for better images of the new minis, particularly the mutants and torments, to be sure. I don't have any of the repeat minis like the Scions, so that's not a problem for me.l
The mutants and torments are not new miniatures, they're existing product from the 40k chaos line; they're currently available as the 'Accursed Cultists' box:
tauist wrote: Why does this (incorrectly titled) new thread exist? Last I checked, the game was still called KT21, even if we are in 2023.. Anyways, as long as we dont end up with duplicate threads which split the traffic, it's OK with me.
The original thread was afflicted with the Dakka End of Page Curse, so it has been locked by a MOD and this new thread created in its place.
Given we're in 2023 when this thread was created, the MOD has put 2023 in the title. Locking the old thread should stop people trying to post in there.
Simples.
Exactly, the old thread suffered from the new page bug (which new threads do not) and at 100+ pages was ripe for a restart.
Grot 6 wrote: Are we looking at this for each faction of cultists, then?
Is this a start, or are these guys a One off?
What was their road ahead for the next iteration, NOT on a Space Hulk?
The 'Ashes of Faith' set is a 'Narrative Play Expansion' and completely outside/unrelated to the Seasons.
The only thing they mentioned about the next season is that it will exist and be released in parts over Winter/Spring 2023/2024, and from the teaser video it will have Aeldari in it. It will also play out on the planet that the broken-up hulk crashed into, so the terrain could be anything mixed with spaceship debris. Or several anythings, as the broken chunks would cover a lot of the planet, so one set could be in a jungle and another in e.g. the mountains or a desert or whatever.
Service post: I heard from German retailer Taschengelddieb.de that allocations for the Gallowfall are once again extremely low. They said they'll only get four boxes and they're one of the larger German online shops.
So expect Gallowfall to sell out pretty quickly tomorrow.
Have one part crash in the desert and randomly re-release Gorkamorka
Kill Team with vehicles? Sounds good to me…
There's a surprising amount of light to superlight vehicles that would kind of fit that role, stuff like Tetras etc. - i'd see that as a narrative/alternate play thing they could do in the future, with rules for e.g. 'scrolling' tables like they had in Ash Wastes or Gorkamorka and such; it would shift the scope of the game from infiltrators to skirmishes between scouts and outriders, but that could be a nice breath of fresh air. Would be a good place to release things like Chaos Bikes, Scout Landspeeders, Tetras, Exodites on very fast Lizards and such. Ciaphas Cain and Jurgen in their trusty Salamander
Have one part crash in the desert and randomly re-release Gorkamorka
Kill Team with vehicles? Sounds good to me…
There's a surprising amount of light to superlight vehicles that would kind of fit that role, stuff like Tetras etc. - i'd see that as a narrative/alternate play thing they could do in the future, with rules for e.g. 'scrolling' tables like they had in Ash Wastes or Gorkamorka and such; it would shift the scope of the game from infiltrators to skirmishes between scouts and outriders, but that could be a nice breath of fresh air. Would be a good place to release things like Chaos Bikes, Scout Landspeeders, Tetras, Exodites on very fast Lizards and such. Ciaphas Cain and Jurgen in their trusty Salamander
Exactly. Also teams like the Elysians and their electric dune buggies, genestealer cult bikes and quads, so many things.
Just need a way to balance it vs. pedestrian teams. Since one of the strengths so far has been that all the teams can do all the missions, more or less.
stahly wrote: Service post: I heard from German retailer Taschengelddieb.de that allocations for the Gallowfall are once again extremely low. They said they'll only get four boxes and they're one of the larger German online shops.
So expect Gallowfall to sell out pretty quickly tomorrow.
I haven’t done the whole sitting on preorder and hoping thing for a good while.
So it probably won’t go well for me trying.
But I guess I’ll try, on Wayland and Darksphere or somewhere.
Depending on their price anyway.
stahly wrote: Service post: I heard from German retailer Taschengelddieb.de that allocations for the Gallowfall are once again extremely low. They said they'll only get four boxes and they're one of the larger German online shops.
So expect Gallowfall to sell out pretty quickly tomorrow.
I haven’t done the whole sitting on preorder and hoping thing for a good while.
So it probably won’t go well for me trying.
But I guess I’ll try, on Wayland and Darksphere or somewhere.
Depending on their price anyway.
Pro tip: grab the URL from the New Zealand page early in the morning and change the language code to your own version. Then at about 0955 try to load the modified URL; it should work even if the front page hasn’t updated yet.
Vorian wrote: Did the Exodites rumour get replaced with Scorpions or is hope still alive on that?
Exodites was never a rumor, merely speculation at best. The reason being, that exodites could have different roles in a unit. Scorpions is still the rumor, but the speculation is wondering how that would work, given they are portraied to be as inflexible as it gets.
Vorian wrote: Did the Exodites rumour get replaced with Scorpions or is hope still alive on that?
Exodites was only a rumour because of Valrak rumours about Eldar (in general, later specified to Scorpions) and people jumping to conclusions when the AoO books mentioned 'mysterious' stuff that looked like plant matter (and was later revealed to be related to the forestwalk stuff the Lion can now do).
I'm not sure how cool Exodites would be if they were confined to Kill team. Unless they had some dinosaur (winged or otherwise) as a pet with its own base, I doubt we'd get any form of dino-riders or anything outside of the standard eldar falconer featuring a beastie
GaroRobe wrote: I'm not sure how cool Exodites would be if they were confined to Kill team. Unless they had some dinosaur (winged or otherwise) as a pet with its own base, I doubt we'd get any form of dino-riders or anything outside of the standard eldar falconer featuring a beastie
I think the unstated assumption behind the clamouring for an Exodite killteam is that it would be something like a sneak preview of a larger force or even whole codex that would have to follow soon after it. I personally don't get that, as that has not really been true for other KTs, and GW seem to be reluctant to support the existing Eldar tribes as-is, and have another basically failed tribe on their hands in form of the Ynnari, which does not bode well for any attempts at Exodites anytime soon.
GaroRobe wrote: I'm not sure how cool Exodites would be if they were confined to Kill team. Unless they had some dinosaur (winged or otherwise) as a pet with its own base, I doubt we'd get any form of dino-riders or anything outside of the standard eldar falconer featuring a beastie
I think the unstated assumption behind the clamouring for an Exodite killteam is that it would be something like a sneak preview of a larger force or even whole codex that would have to follow soon after it. I personally don't get that, as that has not really been true for other KTs, and GW seem to be reluctant to support the existing Eldar tribes as-is, and have another basically failed tribe on their hands in form of the Ynnari, which does not bode well for any attempts at Exodites anytime soon.
Exodites do at least have a stronger theme to them than the Ynnari, and can probably end up with a aesthetic that is distinct from the other branches of the Eldar without going too feral.
On the other hand, the games have enough Space Elves in already - gief moar Space Dwarfs, please and thank you.
GaroRobe wrote: I'm not sure how cool Exodites would be if they were confined to Kill team. Unless they had some dinosaur (winged or otherwise) as a pet with its own base, I doubt we'd get any form of dino-riders or anything outside of the standard eldar falconer featuring a beastie
I think the unstated assumption behind the clamouring for an Exodite killteam is that it would be something like a sneak preview of a larger force or even whole codex that would have to follow soon after it. I personally don't get that, as that has not really been true for other KTs, and GW seem to be reluctant to support the existing Eldar tribes as-is, and have another basically failed tribe on their hands in form of the Ynnari, which does not bode well for any attempts at Exodites anytime soon.
Exodites do at least have a stronger theme to them than the Ynnari, and can probably end up with a aesthetic that is distinct from the other branches of the Eldar without going too feral.
On the other hand, the games have enough Space Elves in already - gief moar Space Dwarfs, please and thank you.
Space chaos dwarfs. Or rather the insane/radio controlled minions of the grieving Mad Votann…
Exodites do at least have a stronger theme to them than the Ynnari, and can probably end up with a aesthetic that is distinct from the other branches of the Eldar without going too feral.
Personal opinion: I think Ynnari have just as strong of a theme and potentially as strong of an aesthetic, but the main issue is that Ynnari don't have the nostalgia factor that Exodites seem to have nor do the Ynnari currently have their own dedicated units aside from a trio of characters while the Exodites, again, have that nostalgia factor of things that were.
Of that trio of Ynnari characters? Only the Visarch is the one that we know is supposed to have a "Ynnari" aesthetic. In one of the video VoxCasts that they did, Goodwin had made reference to the aesthetic of the Ynnari being exemplified by the Visarch's model, being less spiky than a Drukhari but still a baroque piece showcasing the way that the old Aeldari Empires had things looking, with the Ynnari elements being the sculpted motifs and the like.
With all that out of the way? I feel like Exodites are likely to happen at some point, but I'd rather see the Ynnari get some fleshing out before we bring the Exodites in--even if it's via Kill Team.
On the other hand, the games have enough Space Elves in already - gief moar Space Dwarfs, please and thank you.
It would be cool to see the Ironhead Squats get ported out of Necromunda into the League as well, given the League's resurgence into the galaxy at large!
I think the Ynnari have the potential to be something quite interesting, but they also appear to be something that GW lost all interest in after the fall of Cadia and have basically paid them lip-service ever since.
I mean even the current Eldar Codex, which I hold as the gold-standard of Codex structure against which all Codices of this style should have been based (looking at you, current Guard Codex ), hasn't done a huge amount with them. Granted, they have a bigger write up than the Craftworlds do, but it feels like a draft document, a "Here's what we're kinda getting at with these guys!" set of rules. Bare bones, not fleshed out, oh if only we had more time. That kind of thing.
And it's a shame, because it's the first really new thing they've done with the Eldar in ages other than inventing aircraft Aspect Warriors.
Exodites do at least have a stronger theme to them than the Ynnari, and can probably end up with a aesthetic that is distinct from the other branches of the Eldar without going too feral.
Personal opinion:
I think Ynnari have just as strong of a theme and potentially as strong of an aesthetic, but the main issue is that Ynnari don't have the nostalgia factor that Exodites seem to have nor do the Ynnari currently have their own dedicated units aside from a trio of characters while the Exodites, again, have that nostalgia factor of things that were.
Of that trio of Ynnari characters? Only the Visarch is the one that we know is supposed to have a "Ynnari" aesthetic. In one of the video VoxCasts that they did, Goodwin had made reference to the aesthetic of the Ynnari being exemplified by the Visarch's model, being less spiky than a Drukhari but still a baroque piece showcasing the way that the old Aeldari Empires had things looking, with the Ynnari elements being the sculpted motifs and the like.
With all that out of the way? I feel like Exodites are likely to happen at some point, but I'd rather see the Ynnari get some fleshing out before we bring the Exodites in--even if it's via Kill Team.
Agreed.
On the other hand, the games have enough Space Elves in already - gief moar Space Dwarfs, please and thank you.
It would be cool to see the Ironhead Squats get ported out of Necromunda into the League as well, given the League's resurgence into the galaxy at large!
Personally, I'd like to keep a distinction between Squats and Kin as related lineages that diverged some time ago, with Squats being the oppressed abhuman group within the Imperium and the Kin their free cousins. I see the Necromunda squats as examples of the former. I'd like to see a unit for the Astra Militarum of Squat auxiliaries in the same style as the Necromunda hired gun squat (I'd also like Imperial Beastmen auxiliaries in the style of the beastman hired gun).
The dude going 'Spacehulk? Genestealers, Demons, Orks, whatever weird stuff the universe can throw at me? Time to break out the knuckle dusters and leave half me armour at home' has to be one of the gloriously dumbest concept of all time
The dude going 'Spacehulk? Genestealers, Demons, Orks, whatever weird stuff the universe can throw at me? Time to break out the knuckle dusters and leave half me armour at home' has to be one of the gloriously dumbest concept of all time
It occurs to me that the world must have moved on while I wasn't looking. All you kids with your weird modern ideas cannot even comprehend how normal and unworthy of note a sleeveless space dwarf with knuckle dusters looks.
The dude going 'Spacehulk? Genestealers, Demons, Orks, whatever weird stuff the universe can throw at me? Time to break out the knuckle dusters and leave half me armour at home' has to be one of the gloriously dumbest concept of all time
It occurs to me that the world must have moved on while I wasn't looking. All you kids with your weird modern ideas cannot even comprehend how normal and unworthy of note a sleeveless space dwarf with knuckle dusters looks.
IMHO he should be equipped with a broken barstool leg and a half-drunken can of Foster's.
The dude going 'Spacehulk? Genestealers, Demons, Orks, whatever weird stuff the universe can throw at me? Time to break out the knuckle dusters and leave half me armour at home' has to be one of the gloriously dumbest concept of all time
It occurs to me that the world must have moved on while I wasn't looking. All you kids with your weird modern ideas cannot even comprehend how normal and unworthy of note a sleeveless space dwarf with knuckle dusters looks.
IMHO he should be equipped with a broken barstool leg and a half-drunken can of Foster's.
And should have a Mohawk with a Mom tattoo on his sleeveless arm
Knuckle duster dude makes me think of the South Park reference "I didn't hear no bell". He's also part of the reason why I want to get the box.
Do people think that a new edition of Kill Team will come out with the new season coming out in Autumn, or would it come after the new season runs it's course? The current edition came out just over a year after 9th edition iirc.
If Epic is coming out late this year, and new edition of AoS next summer, I'd guess at least the 3nd of next year for any new Kill Team, both to give it time for another full season and to make room potentially for TOW.
The_Real_Chris wrote: And annoyingly Dark Sphere have said no pre-order for me due to lack of stock.
Is that before even the preorder? Already ran out?
Well my usual go-to supplier also announced that they won't take any online (pre-)orders as they have been alloted a total of 4 sets... for which they won't go through the hassle of a potential break down of their website and unhappy customers. I assume they'll sell in their store.
It seems to be the usual crappy supply once again.
I'll try to get a box... But I don't have high hopes....
Is it a new thing that 360 degree photos and images of the models and squads arent available for the new releases? I noticed it on the recent kill team stuf and todays gallowfall and Arbites teams?
FrothingMuppet wrote: Is it a new thing that 360 degree photos and images of the models and squads arent available for the new releases? I noticed it on the recent kill team stuf and todays gallowfall and Arbites teams?
Pretty sure 360s are still the norm. GW did get somewhat sloppy in this regard in the last few years and some kits/webstore pages don't get them. That doesn't seem like a deliberate shift away from 360° views, though.
FrothingMuppet wrote: Is it a new thing that 360 degree photos and images of the models and squads arent available for the new releases? I noticed it on the recent kill team stuf and todays gallowfall and Arbites teams?
Pretty sure 360s are still the norm. GW did get somewhat sloppy in this regard in the last few years and some kits/webstore pages don't get them. That doesn't seem like a deliberate shift away from 360° views, though.
I guess their photography/videography department is or was a bit preoccupied in the last months, with having to do a lot of hype material for 10th edition 40k and Warhammerfest/Adepticon, and Arks of Omen stuff beforehand, the side-games probably got a bit, well, sidetracked during that phase. I don't know how many people they employ there, but it can't be that huge of an operation. And ofc. the studio models have been travelling around a lot as well.
Here is my review ofGallowfall with some nice high-res sprue pics. Be aware that store allocations are once again super low, so this box WILL sell out quickly 🙈
Ended up buying it from GW at 9:57AM, I'm glad that I did as it never appeared on my usual discount retailers sites. It did appear on Alchemists Workshop before 10:00AM but it went straight to "out of stock".
I didn't even bother with 3rd party sellers and I thought be online before 10 I was ahead of the game... nuts..had in it my cart but as I went through PayPal it went out of stock..
I got mine, unfortunately only the German version ...
I had a mild panic Attack when they refused my payment method. I had to reopen my browser to get their shopping basket to work again.
Well, now I'm waiting for the mail telling me my purchase actually didn't go through :S
And the price for the kill zone upgrade is absolute madness. I would have liked some extra terminals but this really takes the cake.
Oh well, this just means I will only get the campaign book and the extra terrain. I do have too many models anyway, one team less in my backlog hardly matters.
I hope Ashes of Faith will not end up the same, as I feel that box seems to have gathered exceptional interest.. But with GW no doubt prioritizing 10th edition and Leviathan boxes in their current production lines, every other box release will sell out immediately until 10th is out..
Lord Damocles wrote: Remember: The lesson here is not to make the same mistake trying to buy the next product.
Aye... It's become a waste of time trying to buy GW stuff.
In the last 6 months I think that makes it about 12 big products I've tried to buy on release morning and they've been gone.
I think Kirby's old statement of the 'GW hobby is buying GW products', would now be 'trying to buy products'.
Oh, I can see things becoming much much worse. Imagine, in the grim darkness of the near future, even scalper priced ebay offers of new products will sell out in seconds LMAO
The Black Adder wrote: I was looking forward to this set. I couldn't get a copy either. I've tried searching everywhere I can think of.
Scalpers on eBay are already selling it for £200+
GW really do need to get better at working out how much stock to make for these sets.
I can’t believe that the demand on this set is particularly higher than the previous Kill Team boxes, so you’d think that they’d have a good handle on it by now.
tauist wrote: I was 5 minutes late and missed the box LOL
Oh well, this just means I will only get the campaign book and the extra terrain. I do have too many models anyway, one team less in my backlog hardly matters.
I hope Ashes of Faith will not end up the same, as I feel that box seems to have gathered exceptional interest.. But with GW no doubt prioritizing 10th edition and Leviathan boxes in their current production lines, every other box release will sell out immediately until 10th is out..
Given the name of the box, "I hope Ashes of Faith will not end up the same" sounds insanely funny. And yeah, it's very likely a vain hope. Not just because of 10th ed. GW's release pace and limited production capacity make discount FOMO a strategy, not an accident. There's no reason to expect that enough copies of Ashes of Faith were made to even come close to satisfying demand.
I'm speculating a bit, but consider this:
They don't want to sell this box to everyone.
The bundled box contains a significant saving over the retail value of separate parts. I only know the €prices, but
- basic terrain: 120€ for gallowdark (includes upgrades, I believe I've seen it without upgrades for 80€?
- upgrade terrain 50€ (let's ignore this and take the terrain total price)
- kill Team A: 50€
- kill Team B: 50€
- Book: 35€
So, to recreate a box of kill Team, you would buy the parts for 255€, instead of 145€. And let's be honest, most people are after the teams, sand the upgrade, which matches the retail price of the box with patience, and snag the book and extra basic terrain while they are at it.
So from GWs perspective they only want a limited amount to buy the discount bundle, and get the rest to buy the separate boxes because the are seeing what other people got and want that, too.
The wait time makes it worse as in increase the FOMO pressure..
It's all speculation of course but it makes some kind of sense to me.
The Black Adder wrote: I was looking forward to this set. I couldn't get a copy either. I've tried searching everywhere I can think of.
Scalpers on eBay are already selling it for £200+
GW really do need to get better at working out how much stock to make for these sets.
I can’t believe that the demand on this set is particularly higher than the previous Kill Team boxes, so you’d think that they’d have a good handle on it by now.
They could be concentrating their production in making stock up of Leviathan boxes though.They will want that to be a success.
Brickfix wrote: I'm speculating a bit, but consider this:
They don't want to sell this box to everyone.
The bundled box contains a significant saving over the retail value of separate parts. I only know the €prices, but
- basic terrain: 120€ for gallowdark (includes upgrades, I believe I've seen it without upgrades for 80€?
- upgrade terrain 50€ (let's ignore this and take the terrain total price)
- kill Team A: 50€
- kill Team B: 50€
- Book: 35€
So, to recreate a box of kill Team, you would buy the parts for 255€, instead of 145€. And let's be honest, most people are after the teams, sand the upgrade, which matches the retail price of the box with patience, and snag the book and extra basic terrain while they are at it.
So from GWs perspective they only want a limited amount to buy the discount bundle, and get the rest to buy the separate boxes because the are seeing what other people got and want that, too.
The wait time makes it worse as in increase the FOMO pressure..
It's all speculation of course but it makes some kind of sense to me.
I doubt it's speculation. It's totally planned.
However, how many people are like me and won't go and buy any of the seperate parts a few months later? That could well be a lot of lost money for GW, not to mention, the seperate parts using up warehouse space.
And getting casuals into a brand using a nice big box? No hope. Only the few dedicated scalpers and lucky players get it. The public never see it even existed.
I think GW has shifted their selling strategy of KT21. The "value" boxes are produced in small quantities, guaranteeing sold out status within minutes of preorder opening. Later, the individual items from the value box are the ones GW intends to sell to the "rest of us". It's a very predatory marketing technique which draws from the most disgusting lessons learnt from social media etc. Buying the product becomes a game of winners (got my box order in!) and losers (I was late and missed out on..), so you wont really have time to make an informed decision about what you are actually buying.. since reviews etc are embargoed to release only after preorders have already sold out.. So you need to decide to either risk missing a purchase at a better value over paying more but actually knowing what you are buying..
The only exceptions to this seem to be the Season launch boxes.. Those are typically available longer than the individual season boxes, and even receive several production runs.
The Black Adder wrote: I was looking forward to this set. I couldn't get a copy either. I've tried searching everywhere I can think of.
Scalpers on eBay are already selling it for £200+
GW really do need to get better at working out how much stock to make for these sets.
I can’t believe that the demand on this set is particularly higher than the previous Kill Team boxes, so you’d think that they’d have a good handle on it by now.
They could be concentrating their production in making stock up of Leviathan boxes though.They will want that to be a success.
They said that, literally, in the 40k Q&A session at Warhammerfest. Leviathan is their most-produced box set of all time, by a large margin.
tauist wrote: I was 5 minutes late and missed the box LOL
Oh well, this just means I will only get the campaign book and the extra terrain. I do have too many models anyway, one team less in my backlog hardly matters.
I hope Ashes of Faith will not end up the same, as I feel that box seems to have gathered exceptional interest.. But with GW no doubt prioritizing 10th edition and Leviathan boxes in their current production lines, every other box release will sell out immediately until 10th is out..
Given the name of the box, "I hope Ashes of Faith will not end up the same" sounds insanely funny. And yeah, it's very likely a vain hope. Not just because of 10th ed. GW's release pace and limited production capacity make discount FOMO a strategy, not an accident. There's no reason to expect that enough copies of Ashes of Faith were made to even come close to satisfying demand.
Indeed.. Ashes of Faith describes the vain sense of hope a GW customer has sitting by his computer, ten minutes before the box preorders go live.. love it! They are sick lil "fethers" innit
The inquisition Boxset is something I'm less and less interested in. The narrative part sounds interesting, but ... Honestly I don't know anyone who would spend some time playing it with me and I'm sure there will be plenty in the aftermarket as most people will want it for the inquisition miniatures and the cheaper cultists.
And this is were the box' appeal for me ends, as I don't really want either SoS nor the Scions.
And the fact that I can't build half the operatives sounds really cheap to me, with such a massive box, how hard would it be to double up on the henchmen sprue? Even if from a power level perspective, you aren't supposed to use all operatives?
The saving on all parts might be really good, but I'm not too convinced it's worth it if I'm not interested in all parts. Might get the inquisition separately once the become available and use custom rules to recreate the narrative material.
Olthannon wrote: Interesting that they've not posted anything on social media channels, presumably don't want to receive negative comments.
Isn't basically all of the UK shut down over the weekend due to the Coronation? It is today, and monday is an additional holiday as far as i know, right?
Olthannon wrote: Interesting that they've not posted anything on social media channels, presumably don't want to receive negative comments.
Isn't basically all of the UK shut down over the weekend due to the Coronation? It is today, and monday is an additional holiday as far as i know, right?
True but people still be working. And that's what scheduled posts are for.
Olthannon wrote: Interesting that they've not posted anything on social media channels, presumably don't want to receive negative comments.
Isn't basically all of the UK shut down over the weekend due to the Coronation? It is today, and monday is an additional holiday as far as i know, right?
True but people still be working. And that's what scheduled posts are for.
A scheduled post can't respond to stuff though; their pre-order announcement on social media go up in the evening usually, 6pm local time mostly. At which time stuff is already sold out
Tsagualsa wrote: Looks like the Beastmen are set up to be released as a 40k kit with double the main sprue and no or another upgrade sprue, right?
We'll get the KT box which has the special sprue, and then likely a separate (and marginally cheaper) 40k release that doesn't have the sprue. There doesn't seem to be anything consistent about the KT releases as to whether a completely new unit gets everything on the sprue, or a separate upgrade sprue.
Kasrkin, Eldar Corsairs and Kommandos: Everything on the sprue. But not Beastmen, or Traitor Guard, or Veteran Guardsmen.
(I'm intentionally leaving out things that are more meant for KT than 40k, like Arbites and Boarding Patrols)
It's really interesting that the Arbites are represented with 3 different 40k Datasheets, and have everything on the sprue, while some other new kill Teams have a basic sprue, an upgrade sprue and no representation of the upgrades in 40k (or unknown in case is the beastmen). I understand that some upgrades don't matter in the scope of 40k, like some of the breachers. Worst example is that some Arbites operatives equipment differ in kill Team and in 40k (and a third variant is in the building instructions ... That has no rule representation at all). It all seems to depend on how "cool" the units are from the rules teams personal perspective, at least that is my only explanation.
tauist wrote: I was 5 minutes late and missed the box LOL
Oh well, this just means I will only get the campaign book and the extra terrain. I do have too many models anyway, one team less in my backlog hardly matters.
I hope Ashes of Faith will not end up the same, as I feel that box seems to have gathered exceptional interest.. But with GW no doubt prioritizing 10th edition and Leviathan boxes in their current production lines, every other box release will sell out immediately until 10th is out..
Given the name of the box, "I hope Ashes of Faith will not end up the same" sounds insanely funny. And yeah, it's very likely a vain hope. Not just because of 10th ed. GW's release pace and limited production capacity make discount FOMO a strategy, not an accident. There's no reason to expect that enough copies of Ashes of Faith were made to even come close to satisfying demand.
Indeed.. Ashes of Faith describes the vain sense of hope a GW customer has sitting by his computer, ten minutes before the box preorders go live.. love it! They are sick lil "fethers" innit
Yeah, I'm really concerned about the Ashes of Faith box (funny name not withstanding, lol), it's pretty much exactly what I want from a Kill Team product. I'm pretty fortunate in that I have a really awesome LGS that will take preorders before they are officially up and do a really good job at getting more product in through multiple distributors. I know Tuesday morning after the reveal of Ashes of Faith I gave them a call and they put me down for a preorder. That all said I don't feel like many people have an option like that, and even if they do people should have more than 24 hours to decide if they want to purchase a product.
I rarely pick up the GW big boxes, but it seems that even if I wanted to I wouldn't have an opportunity most of the time. This whole "my work called at 1000, I was off the phone by 1003, and when I went to preorder it was sold out" is absolutely ridiculous.
checking Ash reading the book, Votann team might just become my favourite. Their operatives seem impressively flexible. Kind of warming up to the Votann more overall, as representing a more idealist version of humanity compared to IoM..
Ashes of Faith will be a fight for copies. 40k and KT players want Inquisition. 40k players want the cheap Cultists. Scalpers know how limited it will be.
Did I miss something? I see individual Arbites squads are going up for preorder today, but the Soulshackle book required to play them (and the Dark Eldar teams) are not?
me and my group were really lookin forward into buyin thi box, but turns out our LGS had like 20 copies and a lot of mfs went physically on second 1 to pre-buy it. And then there are no more copies available anywhere else.
What the hell am I suposed to do to buy GW stuff, fight with sharks?
Garrac wrote: me and my group were really lookin forward into buyin thi box, but turns out our LGS had like 20 copies and a lot of mfs went physically on second 1 to pre-buy it. And then there are no more copies available anywhere else.
What the hell am I suposed to do to buy GW stuff, fight with sharks?
Greed Workshop will eventually sell the elements separately at higher prices, and that's when they want the lion's share of consumers to buy. By deliberately limiting their loss leader offerings they foster the FOMO mentality and encourage impulse buying, all of which increases their profits. Since the community has voted with their wallets, and continued to purchase despite these continued slaps in the face, GW is confident that this marketing strategy is the smart one for them.
Garrac wrote: me and my group were really lookin forward into buyin thi box, but turns out our LGS had like 20 copies and a lot of mfs went physically on second 1 to pre-buy it. And then there are no more copies available anywhere else.
What the hell am I suposed to do to buy GW stuff, fight with sharks?
Greed Workshop will eventually sell the elements separately at higher prices, and that's when they want the lion's share of consumers to buy. By deliberately limiting their loss leader offerings they foster the FOMO mentality and encourage impulse buying, all of which increases their profits. Since the community has voted with their wallets, and continued to purchase despite these continued slaps in the face, GW is confident that this marketing strategy is the smart one for them.
Got it in one. Expect it to ramp up, not down, too - once they have Leviathan out of the gate, they can churn out even more limited edition sets and new hats™ and people will lap it up, as they now are soundly conditioned that they pretty much have to. Even if the next preorder boxes would not naturally sell out anymore with more capacity, they will anyway because it will take time before scalpers get wise to that. And GW do not really care if their preorders get bought by scalpers or real customers.
I intensely dislike the concept of scalping, but cannot really fault the individuals doing it in this economic climate. I don't think this issue is solvable whilst it makes GW a lot of short-term profit. That is what the economic system rewards
Look I don't like scalping as much as the next guy but isent this what capitalism teaches people to do to get ahead? Step on other people buy low sell high? Most you folks relize that america for the longest time bought lots of stuff low from China then resold it at a huge mark up locally. And not just america a lot of country's.
Given the incredible speed at which these products sell out, one wonders why Games Workshop sends freebies to content creators to make videos unboxing them; by the time the video comes out, the product it is displaying is unavailable for purchase, thus impossible to generate more sales.
On one hand I've missed out, on the other hand if I buy everything separately when it comes out it won't cost more as I really don't need another set of Gallowdark corridors, given I have the three previous boxes. Realistically they would never have got built or painted.
Wow, I didn't think the pre-orders would sell out as quickly as they did, so I didn't have a chance to get my order in today.
I figured "Oh, I've got lots of the terrain boxes, surely Squats + Beastmen + Escape Capsules won't be that popular." I guess it's off to hunt for store copies in two weeks...
solkan wrote: Wow, I didn't think the pre-orders would sell out as quickly as they did, so I didn't have a chance to get my order in today.
I figured "Oh, I've got lots of the terrain boxes, surely Squats + Beastmen + Escape Capsules won't be that popular." I guess it's off to hunt for store copies in two weeks...
The last few Kill Team boxes have each sold out pretty quick. Generally, you either grab one on the first day or you do without.
solkan wrote: Wow, I didn't think the pre-orders would sell out as quickly as they did, so I didn't have a chance to get my order in today.
I figured "Oh, I've got lots of the terrain boxes, surely Squats + Beastmen + Escape Capsules won't be that popular." I guess it's off to hunt for store copies in two weeks...
The last few Kill Team boxes have each sold out pretty quick. Generally, you either grab one on the first day or you do without.
Yes, but for some reason this one was “either grab one in the first minute or do without”, which is a) weird and b) stupid.
Shakalooloo wrote: Given the incredible speed at which these products sell out, one wonders why Games Workshop sends freebies to content creators to make videos unboxing them; by the time the video comes out, the product it is displaying is unavailable for purchase, thus impossible to generate more sales.
marketing for "value" as the one product that is shown on YT by the algorithm is the one that is not available any more which creates the impression that it is the one game everyone wants
so those that are attracted by the videos to look into it, find out that it is already gone so it must be super popular and therefore is worth the investment (as it must be that good and there must be a lot of players around) and those are the people who pay the full price stand alone stuff that is available
by showing that the one thing everyone wants is hardly available you create value and make the price look cheap (is if the price would be to high, it would not be gone) which let the company increase the price with each box and no one complains because it still sells out.
if this works out in the long run or people get angry because they are not able to get one and wander off is a question only time will tell (but also here sending out boxes to show off helps because it prevents people from knowing that something else exists)
The boxes send out to influencers are also a comparable small amount, even if they only produced something like 500 boxes. Which I think is rather unlikely, or my perspective is totally out of touch.
What it does prevent is people talking about alternatives. If the boys sold out and the popular box reviewers didn't get a box, there is a high risk of videos talking about alternatives.
"Didn't get this box? Buy these alternatives instead"
That would be way worse for GW then ten more customers with a box could gain.
More related to Kill Team specifically:
Is there any speculation on when ashes of faith gets released? How long does GWs definition of spring apply? I would guess the box gets released either before leviathan or a bit after leviathan, but there isn't really any spring left of the year after leviathan and the surrounding hype has died down to warrant a kill Team box set
Brickfix wrote: The boxes send out to influencers are also a comparable small amount, even if they only produced something like 500 boxes. Which I think is rather unlikely, or my perspective is totally out of touch.
What it does prevent is people talking about alternatives. If the boys sold out and the popular box reviewers didn't get a box, there is a high risk of videos talking about alternatives.
"Didn't get this box? Buy these alternatives instead"
That would be way worse for GW then ten more customers with a box could gain.
More related to Kill Team specifically:
Is there any speculation on when ashes of faith gets released? How long does GWs definition of spring apply? I would guess the box gets released either before leviathan or a bit after leviathan, but there isn't really any spring left of the year after leviathan and the surrounding hype has died down to warrant a kill Team box set
For comparison purposes, for their limited edition / collectors edition books, they typically assign between 1000 and 2000 books to a market, so they have several thousand in total. I'd imagine that Launch boxes like Gallowdark etc. have at least comparable volumes, probably more, as they're not specifically marked as collector's or limited edition items, even if they de facto are. The couple dozen boxes at most that get shipped to influencers and magazines/portals for review are not really significant at that scale.
As you said: the exposure and marketing gains are orders of magnitude more relevant than the effect a couple more boxes for sale could have had.
Brickfix wrote: More related to Kill Team specifically:
Is there any speculation on when ashes of faith gets released? How long does GWs definition of spring apply? I would guess the box gets released either before leviathan or a bit after leviathan, but there isn't really any spring left of the year after leviathan and the surrounding hype has died down to warrant a kill Team box set
They said during the reveal stream that the box is out before Leviathan. That should make it a June 3 pre-order with a June 10 release date at the latest, but it might be earlier than that.
Brickfix wrote: More related to Kill Team specifically:
Is there any speculation on when ashes of faith gets released? How long does GWs definition of spring apply? I would guess the box gets released either before leviathan or a bit after leviathan, but there isn't really any spring left of the year after leviathan and the surrounding hype has died down to warrant a kill Team box set
They said during the reveal stream that the box is out before Leviathan. That should make it a June 3 pre-order with a June 10 release date at the latest, but it might be earlier than that.
Thank you, so I might expect it right after payday. Enough time to make up my mind if I want it and if I can justify it considering the contents.
Brickfix wrote: The boxes send out to influencers are also a comparable small amount, even if they only produced something like 500 boxes. Which I think is rather unlikely, or my perspective is totally out of touch.
What it does prevent is people talking about alternatives. If the boys sold out and the popular box reviewers didn't get a box, there is a high risk of videos talking about alternatives.
"Didn't get this box? Buy these alternatives instead"
That would be way worse for GW then ten more customers with a box could gain.
More related to Kill Team specifically:
Is there any speculation on when ashes of faith gets released? How long does GWs definition of spring apply? I would guess the box gets released either before leviathan or a bit after leviathan, but there isn't really any spring left of the year after leviathan and the surrounding hype has died down to warrant a kill Team box set
For comparison purposes, for their limited edition / collectors edition books, they typically assign between 1000 and 2000 books to a market, so they have several thousand in total. I'd imagine that Launch boxes like Gallowdark etc. have at least comparable volumes, probably more, as they're not specifically marked as collector's or limited edition items, even if they de facto are. The couple dozen boxes at most that get shipped to influencers and magazines/portals for review are not really significant at that scale.
As you said: the exposure and marketing gains are orders of magnitude more relevant than the effect a couple more boxes for sale could have had.
I mean they definitely send out more than a few dozen to social media and such. Just the ones I see on my Twitter, Instagram and YouTube is over 20 ish and there are far more out there.
But to the boxes. I think everyone is drastically underestimating how many are made and how many fans of products there are.
For instance, Ipswich my closest main town, having three hobby stores one being GW.
The two independents got allocated 4 each. GW you’d assume more, call it 8.
One town. 16 copies..
Multiply that by the number of towns and cities in the UK.
One country. Not even counting online yet. Other countries still to add.
These boxes are in the thousands, launch boxes like Into The Dark would have likely been double that number.
(Then of course 40k edition boxes, several multiplications of that number).
These boxes are in the thousands, launch boxes like Into The Dark would have likely been double that number.
(Then of course 40k edition boxes, several multiplications of that number).
If you consider that over 300.000 people watched the livestream of the Leviathan box reveal at Warhammerfest, and consider that that is probably only a fraction of people interested in buying it, it's easy to come to the conclusion that it will likely be in the hundred-thousands, if not over a million copies.
GW shops usually get sent half of whatever the independent allocations are, just a FYI.
At least here in the US, I guess I should make that clear? More often than not, for these "hot ticket items"? The allocation is "zero" for GW shops to put on the shelf.
Just finished watching. Much much prefer the Votann team, Beastmen team seems very onedimensional to play. Maybe missing out on the box turned out a blessing in disguise for me (was going to get the Beastmen, but I've since changed my mind)
Wow, i really can't believe how little GW wants people to actually play Kill Team. Considering 3 of the 4 box sets were almost completely unobtainable. I don't understand why they even bother to promote them if they are not going to produce them or even make them "made to order" if they are worry about having excess.
GW is starting to become the next Kickstarter. Either preorder in a quick time or miss out.
angel of death 007 wrote: Wow, i really can't believe how little GW wants people to actually play Kill Team. Considering 3 of the 4 box sets were almost completely unobtainable. I don't understand why they even bother to promote them if they are not going to produce them or even make them "made to order" if they are worry about having excess.
GW is starting to become the next Kickstarter. Either preorder in a quick time or miss out.
Most Kickstarters have a late pledge option, so Kickstarter is the superior choice.
angel of death 007 wrote: Wow, i really can't believe how little GW wants people to actually play Kill Team. Considering 3 of the 4 box sets were almost completely unobtainable. I don't understand why they even bother to promote them if they are not going to produce them or even make them "made to order" if they are worry about having excess.
GW is starting to become the next Kickstarter. Either preorder in a quick time or miss out.
Most Kickstarters have a late pledge option, so Kickstarter is the superior choice.
And a 30 day window for preorder... so you are correct, much better. I get it if they are afraid to over produce but if you are going to do shady FOMO stuff atleast give a MTO option. Making it impossible for people to get just gets people frustrated. I think they are putting all their marbles in one bag for 10th ed, but honestly that doesn't even describe the last two KT box sets so... ??? If I ran a business that crappy, I wouldn't be in business.
people being frustrated does not affect sales in any way, KT sells out no matter what
and it is not that easy to produce more
not only because of production slots but shipping and warehouse space, specially during a time were GW is building up stock for a big 40k release
they just don't care what happens to KT as long is it sells out
and if someone wants to play that game, those boxes are not needed anyway just if you want to play those specific teams
PS: and yes, if anyone else would handle their product this way they would be out of business
but GW does not only have this product but others that make money and people don't react negative to such things if they come from GW
I find it very sad that we are back to this. 2 years ago scalping became sich a big issue most items would go straight to eBay. GW actually changed and offered one week MTO during the preorder phase. That stopped scalpers from buying in the first place and ironically, the preorders were lower than the initial production run. Octarius ended up being available for months. GW didn't even bother to offer a release of the Ork terrain afterwards. If I was an Ork player, I'd be fuming. The same thing happened with the into the darkness launch box. Again, only sold out after months.
So I guess GW overadjusted again. It's mind boggling that they can't find a middle ground.
I hope they change their mind again with the next season launcher. But I doubt that the Ashes of faith box will fare any better.
I think the season launch box won’t be an issue. They definitely make much more for those.
But yeah the other three for that season and the AoF and any other upcoming narrative boxes, we won’t be so lucky.
GiToRaZor wrote: I find it very sad that we are back to this. 2 years ago scalping became sich a big issue most items would go straight to eBay. GW actually changed and offered one week MTO during the preorder phase. That stopped scalpers from buying in the first place and ironically, the preorders were lower than the initial production run. Octarius ended up being available for months. GW didn't even bother to offer a release of the Ork terrain afterwards. If I was an Ork player, I'd be fuming. The same thing happened with the into the darkness launch box. Again, only sold out after months.
So I guess GW overadjusted again. It's mind boggling that they can't find a middle ground.
I hope they change their mind again with the next season launcher. But I doubt that the Ashes of faith box will fare any better.
I am quite certain I saw a "Killzone: Octarius" box being sold by GW when KT21 was still new. Maybe you just missed out on one? I don't think the Killzone boxes are made in large quantities..
GiToRaZor wrote: I find it very sad that we are back to this. 2 years ago scalping became sich a big issue most items would go straight to eBay. GW actually changed and offered one week MTO during the preorder phase. That stopped scalpers from buying in the first place and ironically, the preorders were lower than the initial production run. Octarius ended up being available for months. GW didn't even bother to offer a release of the Ork terrain afterwards. If I was an Ork player, I'd be fuming. The same thing happened with the into the darkness launch box. Again, only sold out after months.
So I guess GW overadjusted again. It's mind boggling that they can't find a middle ground.
I hope they change their mind again with the next season launcher. But I doubt that the Ashes of faith box will fare any better.
I am quite certain I saw a "Killzone: Octarius" box being sold by GW when KT21 was still new. Maybe you just missed out on one? I don't think the Killzone boxes are made in large quantities..
Yeah the Killzone existed, I still regret not getting one as it was available for quite some time and not that expensive compared to other terrain.
I agree that their preorder should really be a preorder, I'm ready to wait a few months and not have the stress if I even get a box or not.
NAVARRO wrote: Haven't been there in years but now work takes me to London every week. How well stocked is dark sphere these days?
It tries to have full ranges, but has a lot of gaps. I believe they have a sale currently of some minor lines. I would also call ahead if there was something in particular you liked.
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Danny76 wrote: Is that before even the preorder? Already ran out?
Yes, I had signed up tot he pre-pre-order expression of interest list.
The Inquisition kit seems very limited, unfortunately. Each of the four regular bodies can be built in two configurations, but apart from that, no alternate heads, weapons, or bitz. Bit of a wasted opportunity.
As long as they don't replace the current acoylte rules in 40k, I really like these. Always good to have more options to convert from. The deathworld veteran is by far the best mini in that set though.
stahly wrote: The Inquisition kit seems very limited, unfortunately. Each of the four regular bodies can be built in two configurations, but apart from that, no alternate heads, weapons, or bitz. Bit of a wasted opportunity.
True on one hand - on the other, it also means that at least it's not a must-buy that is, at least for now, locked behind a box that could easily cost ~200€, if you can get one at all.
The inquisitorial agents is such a missed oportunity. The kit looks like a decade old. Static, rigid poses. Kinda curious about Ashes of Faith rules, but from the contents I wonder if it's going to be cheaper than other KT boxes (I think I'm not mistaken but it's got no terrain right?)
Destrado wrote: The inquisitorial agents is such a missed oportunity. The kit looks like a decade old. Static, rigid poses. Kinda curious about Ashes of Faith rules, but from the contents I wonder if it's going to be cheaper than other KT boxes (I think I'm not mistaken but it's got no terrain right?)
It's got about 300$ of miniatures MSRP in it though.
If WHC is publishing articles about the teams already, the release is only a few weeks away..
What sucks about the Ashes release is, I can't see myself being able to justify the cost of the minis required to play the narrative campaign if I need to purchase them individually. If I miss out on the box, I'll perhaps get the inq team down the line just because I have so many imperial teams I can mix with it (I've got Vet Guard, Navy Breachers and Starstriders), but I'll for sure leave the cultist team well alone. How many kits does that even make for the cultists? 4 full GW kits required for the team with all mutation options?
Current KT21 seasonal box sales tactic doesn't quite suit the Ashes box. With regular Campaign boxes, you can always just get the book and terrain later (in Season 1, you could even proxy with existing terrain), and play the missions with any teams, but with Ashes, you can only play the missions against the cultists, so you'd better already own the 4 required kits if you miss the box release and have to resort to buying individual items
stahly wrote: The Inquisition kit seems very limited, unfortunately. Each of the four regular bodies can be built in two configurations, but apart from that, no alternate heads, weapons, or bitz. Bit of a wasted opportunity.
Agreed, it's a shame. I am hopeful the bodies will be easily compatible with a variety of existing kits, though.
Just got word from my local discounter that they got a extremely limited amount of Gallow-something boxes, so in order to avoid a mad dash and a lot of disappointment (no doubt also fething over any scalpers still lurking), they're going to hold a raffle and sell the set to the lucky winners who sign up. Not ideal, but 🤞🏻 I manage to get one.
Destrado wrote: The inquisitorial agents is such a missed oportunity. The kit looks like a decade old. Static, rigid poses. Kinda curious about Ashes of Faith rules, but from the contents I wonder if it's going to be cheaper than other KT boxes (I think I'm not mistaken but it's got no terrain right?)
It's got about 300$ of miniatures MSRP in it though.
Expecting even a 50% discount on the kits will mean that it's around 122 euros, not taking the extra material like books into consideration. So yeah, it'll probably cost the same as the other boxes.
I'd get one for the cultists (well, I still have like 60 from dark vengeance, and 20 new ones from the boarding patrol...) and the rules, but I think it'll be hard to shift the other kits. Maybe the Inquisition because of the novelty.
Also, totally bonkers that the 10 man single pose cultist box is €40 and the Dark Commune €42,50 while the Cultist Warband is €25.
I really like the overall concept. I wonder if there are limits to the number of mutants or torments you can have, even assuming the cultists live that long.
Well, if you can get one mutation per turning point, and KT21 games typically last for 4 turning points, I'd say you're looking at 4-5 mutations per game max
Man, I kind of wish they'd revisit the Gellerpox team rules and added a similar mechanic to them.. Although Gellerpox seem kind of OP in IttD missions as is.. maybe limit the mutations to just open world missions, hmm?
tauist wrote: Well, if you can get one mutation per turning point, and KT21 games typically last for 4 turning points, I'd say you're looking at 4-5 mutations per game max
Man, I kind of wish they'd revisit the Gellerpox team rules and added a similar mechanic to them.. Although Gellerpox seem kind of OP in IttD missions as is.. maybe limit the mutations to just open world missions, hmm?
I disagree, the article says you already get 1 per turning point number, so 1, 2, 3 and finally 4 mutations.
Plus your leader (or whoever that demagogue operative is) will generate a mutation on its activation, hence up to another 4. Every player will keep that one hidden.
And on top you can get one for every (!) cc where your model doesn't die. An remember you can fight twice once per round. I'd imagine you can clean up about 3 models easily per game that way.
So if you don't pick the healing option, we look at 17 mutations. You will really need to have the box twice just to have enough models to cover the possible results.
tauist wrote: Well, if you can get one mutation per turning point, and KT21 games typically last for 4 turning points, I'd say you're looking at 4-5 mutations per game max
Man, I kind of wish they'd revisit the Gellerpox team rules and added a similar mechanic to them.. Although Gellerpox seem kind of OP in IttD missions as is.. maybe limit the mutations to just open world missions, hmm?
I disagree, the article says you already get 1 per turning point number, so 1, 2, 3 and finally 4 mutations.
Plus your leader (or whoever that demagogue operative is) will generate a mutation on its activation, hence up to another 4. Every player will keep that one hidden.
And on top you can get one for every (!) cc where your model doesn't die. An remember you can fight twice once per round. I'd imagine you can clean up about 3 models easily per game that way.
So if you don't pick the healing option, we look at 17 mutations. You will really need to have the box twice just to have enough models to cover the possible results.
17 mutations sounds like a lot. I dont like the mechanic where you get a mutation just for surviving one fight action, I hope that one comes with some caveat
Two is pretty close to fifty so it's all good, right?
Seems that I just managed to order an Arbites box from an independent. I imagine that box will be perpetually out of stock for the next six to twelve months.
lord_blackfang wrote: So after a brief respite since the Cursed City fiasco we back to hardcore FOMO sales model?
More like 'Betting the house on the Leviathan box' release model
To be fair, there's some logic to it. Leviathan is there to get as many people as possible to commit to investing in GW's premier game and most important moneymaker. The Kill Team boxes are supplements for a niche game. It's just completely different levels of sales. I'm sure GW would like to make more money off them if they had the production capacity, but not at the expense of 40k. It's not really a gamble prioritizing 40k.
lord_blackfang wrote: So after a brief respite since the Cursed City fiasco we back to hardcore FOMO sales model?
More like 'Betting the house on the Leviathan box' release model
To be fair, there's some logic to it. Leviathan is there to get as many people as possible to commit to investing in GW's premier game and most important moneymaker. The Kill Team boxes are supplements for a niche game. It's just completely different levels of sales. I'm sure GW would like to make more money off them if they had the production capacity, but not at the expense of 40k. It's not really a gamble prioritizing 40k.
I'm not saying that it isn't a pretty safe bet, but betting the house is still betting the house. It's hard to quantify the amount of goodwill and customer satisfaction they're sacrificing here, but i'm confident that that sort of bad blood with the community, and especially side-game communities, will persist for a very long time. It gets exacerbated by their usual approach of 'Don't ask - don't tell (the customers anything, ever)' - if you did not happen to catch that one sentence in the Warhammerfest Q&A or are following the community closely, you have no idea why they're unable to meet demand and have gakky service suddenly, and a lot of retailers and customers are fed up with that and will move on.
I'm really not sure what the point of creating and advertising a product is if you can only fulfill a few % of demand. Literally only a few % going by examples of stores that wanted 50 and got 2. It would probably go over better with customers if you said "We're stretched thin with the 40k reboot, side games are on pause until autmn" rather than hype up demand and then spectacularly underprint.
The result of what is happening is that customers now percieve this box as much more valuable than it really is. Consequently, the inevitable release of separate contents of the box should see appropriately increased demand.
Which is basically money out of the retailer's pocket. I don't know that the profit on 50 boxes of Gallowwhatever would be but for a game shop I imagine it's not small change.
Which is basically money out of the retailer's pocket. I don't know that the profit on 50 boxes of Gallowwhatever would be but for a game shop I imagine it's not small change.
And that money won't come back.
Outside of the direct earnings, it also has reputational aspects: 'The store where you can't actually order anything/ can't get you your order' is usually not long for this world.
lord_blackfang wrote: So after a brief respite since the Cursed City fiasco we back to hardcore FOMO sales model?
More like 'Betting the house on the Leviathan box' release model
To be fair, there's some logic to it. Leviathan is there to get as many people as possible to commit to investing in GW's premier game and most important moneymaker. The Kill Team boxes are supplements for a niche game. It's just completely different levels of sales. I'm sure GW would like to make more money off them if they had the production capacity, but not at the expense of 40k. It's not really a gamble prioritizing 40k.
I'm not saying that it isn't a pretty safe bet, but betting the house is still betting the house. It's hard to quantify the amount of goodwill and customer satisfaction they're sacrificing here, but i'm confident that that sort of bad blood with the community, and especially side-game communities, will persist for a very long time. It gets exacerbated by their usual approach of 'Don't ask - don't tell (the customers anything, ever)' - if you did not happen to catch that one sentence in the Warhammerfest Q&A or are following the community closely, you have no idea why they're unable to meet demand and have gakky service suddenly, and a lot of retailers and customers are fed up with that and will move on.
While I'm sure this is a popular sentiment, all evidence points to it not being popular enough to make GW reconsider their practices. GW has proven to be highly resilient to some types of customer dissatisfaction. It's unfortunate, but holding out hope that enough people are fed up with supply issues is much the same as hoping for the latest price increase to be the final straw. Not enough people break away and the customer pool remains large enough so GW still can't satisfy demand.
Eventually that may change, but so far these things have happened gradually and let GW correct course easily enough.
kodos wrote: GW wants people to switch to their online shop, this is the best way to do it
except their online shop sells out faster than anywhere that isn't doing "pre-pre-preorders"?
well, classic "pre-orders" are there for shops to check the demand, technically a pre-order should not sell out
the combination of very short release windows with high volume of releases, expensive prices that make discount bundles attractive as investment and the missing information if those things will ever be available after leads to the point we are now
question is just how long it will take until the "want to have everything" will be replaced by the "don't care anymore" but by now it looks like that this won't happen very soon and customer dissatisfaction is replaced by the shiny new thing coming next week
so this is not a problem for GW, more people buying directly from their shops means more profit, everything selling out means more profit, annoyed customers still buying the next release means more profit, why should they change something
(if missing on the one KT Box Set would lead several gaming groups to switch from KT to Deadzone, this would be a problem but as long as those still play KT or any other GW system, there is no problem)
I think it's more a case of 40k new edition production taking priority over these sets. What remains to be seen is if the new 40k box set will also sell out in record times...
Not going to lie, but has annoying as it was in the past I find that if a company does not want to sell me plastic toy soldiers then its their loss and move on. How many times have you guys wanted a specific box that was sold out and then only to find out you totally lost interest on the same split content months later?
GW projects sales of x units and then they sell out. GW sees this as a target achieved and based of the amount of interest they will raise slightly the price for next x units, either by giving less in the box or raise prices, or both or making people buy direct...
With all that said Im quite interested on the Votann minis but will wait several months for the individual box. As it stands its a GW loss today.
It's been over 10 hours since the latest Warcry box went on preorder, still not sold out.. Either Warcry is a lot less popular than KT21, or something is off with GW's production capacity..?
tauist wrote: It's been over 10 hours since the latest Warcry box went on preorder, still not sold out.. Either Warcry is a lot less popular than KT21, or something is off with GW's production capacity..?
I'd wager it simply is less popular by a wide margin, even. Kill Team has taken off really well to the point of having a budding international tournament scene and has a larger audience through the 40k IP. Warcry, meanwhile, seems to be doing just fine but not storming any trading lists beyond kitchen tables.
Kill Team featuring new units that are proper squads for 40k as opposed to Warcry's more... eclectic style of gang that have to be squeezed into AoS probably adds a bit as well.
Plus this box is half Stormcast, and a bland unit to boot. This is like the Moloch set for KT, with half being Reivers or whatnot. Just not the same level of excitement at all.
Scottywan82 wrote: Plus this box is half Stormcast, and a bland unit to boot. This is like the Moloch set for KT, with half being Reivers or whatnot. Just not the same level of excitement at all.
We run in wildly different worlds for AoS, I guess. I've seen a lot of hype over the new Stormcast on social media stuff, since it's basically a "Chamber Heroes" set allowing for you to build a Lord-Castellan in Thunderstrike Armor(lantern+halberd), a Lord-Relictor in Thunderstrike Armor(hammer, skull mask, extra goodies), and the various event only Knight-Questor models/loadouts that people might have missed(I know that I never was able to get the Shadowstrike model with the glaive as it was a store anniversary model that C19 cut off).
The previous WarCry sets for the season also didn't sell out immediately.
It feels a little bit more like some people are treating KT sets almost like stocks right now, much like Black Library novels.
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Shakalooloo wrote: Kill Team featuring new units that are proper squads for 40k as opposed to Warcry's more... eclectic style of gang that have to be squeezed into AoS probably adds a bit as well.
As opposed to the KT sets with upgrades that can't be used or are ignored/skipped over? Kasrkin can't even take a sergeant with a hellgun in 40k proper, despite it being a build+roster option in the kit.
They've been doing better this season with WarCry to AoS than they have with KT to 40k, in my opinion.
It’s that simply you can sell the individual teams from the Kill Team boxes for like £50-60 each.
The one unique scatter sprue for like £10-15.
Then there’s still terrain and books.
So no matter how much of the box you want, you can make back and it’s worth getting it for the bits you do want.
tauist wrote: It's been over 10 hours since the latest Warcry box went on preorder, still not sold out.. Either Warcry is a lot less popular than KT21, or something is off with GW's production capacity..?
You can still get 4 of the 6 AoS Christmas bundles on 3rd party sites, not to mention the 3rd edition launch box for nearly 50% off!
I like AoS, think the models are some of the best GW produces, but it seems like it's 1/10th as popular as 40K. It must be meeting their targets given they're reviving the old world and seem to be investing in big refreshes, but it's striking how the product just sits. I think the comment about the KT teams being pretty close to 40K units while AoS has oddball chaff makes sense, but it's not like Arbites or Beastmen or even the Votann specialists would be usable in 40K.
tauist wrote: It's been over 10 hours since the latest Warcry box went on preorder, still not sold out.. Either Warcry is a lot less popular than KT21, or something is off with GW's production capacity..?
When do other war cry boxes usually sell out? If they tend to sell out fast, then I think the big reasoning is that the warbands in this box might not be that exciting to many people. I feel like the box before this one, with the tzeentch and Nurgle guys was a lot more exiting than this one.
flaherty wrote: I think the comment about the KT teams being pretty close to 40K units while AoS has oddball chaff makes sense, but it's not like Arbites or Beastmen or even the Votann specialists would be usable in 40K.
Arbites have 40k stats and the kit is particularly stacked so you can build them all with shields or shotguns, ie. unified equipment you'd want for a 40k squad.
tauist wrote: It's been over 10 hours since the latest Warcry box went on preorder, still not sold out.. Either Warcry is a lot less popular than KT21, or something is off with GW's production capacity..?
You can still get 4 of the 6 AoS Christmas bundles on 3rd party sites, not to mention the 3rd edition launch box for nearly 50% off!
I like AoS, think the models are some of the best GW produces, but it seems like it's 1/10th as popular as 40K. It must be meeting their targets given they're reviving the old world and seem to be investing in big refreshes, but it's striking how the product just sits. I think the comment about the KT teams being pretty close to 40K units while AoS has oddball chaff makes sense, but it's not like Arbites or Beastmen or even the Votann specialists would be usable in 40K.
40k is bigger than AoS, but it also has more history. It's easy to sell Kill Team boxes just like Blackstone Fortress on the strength of oddball units that haven't had models or dedicated rules since the Nineties, but that are prominent enough in the fluff that people have spent years or even decades wanting to see them in miniature form (again).
AoS doesn't have that. I reckon the closest you'll come is if a Warcry box was the first release of Malerion elves. That might be a comparatively big seller since people have basically been waiting for that since day one. Sigmarines and Flesheater Courts aren't bad for what they can provide to their respective armies, but old heroes in new armor and a handful of extra models for an army starved for new models doesn't seem like it has wider appeal.
tauist wrote: It's been over 10 hours since the latest Warcry box went on preorder, still not sold out.. Either Warcry is a lot less popular than KT21, or something is off with GW's production capacity..?
You can still get 4 of the 6 AoS Christmas bundles on 3rd party sites, not to mention the 3rd edition launch box for nearly 50% off!
I like AoS, think the models are some of the best GW produces, but it seems like it's 1/10th as popular as 40K. It must be meeting their targets given they're reviving the old world and seem to be investing in big refreshes, but it's striking how the product just sits. I think the comment about the KT teams being pretty close to 40K units while AoS has oddball chaff makes sense, but it's not like Arbites or Beastmen or even the Votann specialists would be usable in 40K.
From anedcdotical evidence this checks out, for example the 40k stream at Warhammerfest had over 300.000 live viewers, while the AoS stream had less than 25k, and the Underworlds/WarCry stream had about 7500 at the time i checked it. That's of course not exactly hard data, and 40k was the 'main event' this year, which surely boosted viewership, but i suppose the true factor lies at least in the ballpark of one order of magnitude.
If KT21 is selling 10 times as much as Warcry, GW should be making 10 times as many boxes as well.. But GW Finland getting 1 Gallowfall box and all the local FLGS getting zero boxes does not indicate this would be the case
tauist wrote: If KT21 is selling 10 times as much as Warcry, GW should be making 10 times as many boxes as well.. But GW Finland getting 1 Gallowfall box and all the local FLGS getting zero boxes does not indicate this would be the case
Realistically, we have no idea what's happening in their internal production slot allocation. They said that they're producing extreme amounts of Leviathan; that this impairs their production of other stuff is a reasonable assumption to make, but it already isn't a fact. There are just too many possibilities beyond that: popularity of the games, unrelated problems with third-party suppliers for e.g. printed products or parts of products, and so on.
All we know is that KillTeam demand goes unmet, and WarCry demand apparently does not. If we're hyper-optimistic we could even conclude that we're now moving out of the releases that were hampered by dedicating so much machine time to Leviathan, but then again this would be pure speculation.
I do recall the overwhelming sentiment when the second box this season was released was "what's the point in getting more of the same scenery?" as you only ever needed one set for KT and two for boarding actions.
"I'll just wait for the individual team releases instead" was a common refrain.
I dunno, maybe GW *did* listen. I do wonder if the demand for boxes is primarily being driven by people wanting the stuff now, or because they may aswell as its essentially the same price as getting the two teams/unique terrain/book separate, but will more free Gallowdark hulls.
No one is really missing out on much. The only people who really need this box are folk who want to get into this season of KT and didn't grab any of the previous boxes.
There are products other than Kill Team being significantly underprinted. Some weird assumption about diminishing demand also doesn't explain why even go to the trouble of spending resources to design a product if you're going to print less than 1 box per store. At that point you're probably making a loss on just commissioning the box art.
40k is bigger than AoS, but it also has more history. It's easy to sell Kill Team boxes just like Blackstone Fortress on the strength of oddball units that haven't had models or dedicated rules since the Nineties, but that are prominent enough in the fluff that people have spent years or even decades wanting to see them in miniature form (again).
AoS doesn't have that. I reckon the closest you'll come is if a Warcry box was the first release of Malerion elves. That might be a comparatively big seller since people have basically been waiting for that since day one. Sigmarines and Flesheater Courts aren't bad for what they can provide to their respective armies, but old heroes in new armor and a handful of extra models for an army starved for new models doesn't seem like it has wider appeal.
Pretty much what I wanted to say, I just want to add that you can also get some of the oddball 'units' from Underworlds for AoS, which means AoS has one additional, reliable avenue for unique/flavorful sculpts for factions than 40k.
lord_blackfang wrote: There are products other than Kill Team being significantly underprinted. Some weird assumption about diminishing demand also doesn't explain why even go to the trouble of spending resources to design a product if you're going to print less than 1 box per store. At that point you're probably making a loss on just commissioning the box art.
That assumes they actually pay artists. This is anecdotal evidence only, but a Magic player I used to game with is a freelance artist, and since he was not one of the big names, would periodically get shafted by his employers. These were usually smaller game companies, many of whom were trying to produce the next Magic: The Gathering in the late 90's/early 00's.
Now as GW is big, they probably do pay their artists. Just not that much as many artists would want to work for them, even if only to boost their resume and portfolio for the long-term. So the market situation favors GW and they can lowball their hires.
As for Warcry ... While I'm not keeping up with the current edition, I bought the prior edition because I liked the oddball, one-off figures. I liked that the first mortal Chaos gangs were often multi-species, united by their understanding of a given facet of Chaos. Now that does not necessarily work for Kill Team, as certain factions should be uniform, but groups like the Inquisitorial Agents and Rogue Traders should be motley and eclectic. So I'd like to see more individualized sculpts for KT. They could be used as character models in 40k.
lord_blackfang wrote: There are products other than Kill Team being significantly underprinted. Some weird assumption about diminishing demand also doesn't explain why even go to the trouble of spending resources to design a product if you're going to print less than 1 box per store. At that point you're probably making a loss on just commissioning the box art.
That assumes they actually pay artists. This is anecdotal evidence only, but a Magic player I used to game with is a freelance artist, and since he was not one of the big names, would periodically get shafted by his employers. These were usually smaller game companies, many of whom were trying to produce the next Magic: The Gathering in the late 90's/early 00's.
Now as GW is big, they probably do pay their artists. Just not that much as many artists would want to work for them, even if only to boost their resume and portfolio for the long-term. So the market situation favors GW and they can lowball their hires.
As for Warcry ... While I'm not keeping up with the current edition, I bought the prior edition because I liked the oddball, one-off figures. I liked that the first mortal Chaos gangs were often multi-species, united by their understanding of a given facet of Chaos. Now that does not necessarily work for Kill Team, as certain factions should be uniform, but groups like the Inquisitorial Agents and Rogue Traders should be motley and eclectic. So I'd like to see more individualized sculpts for KT. They could be used as character models in 40k.
That's the upside of professionalism: GW wants to have an ironclad paper-trail documenting that they acquired all relevant rights to use certain artwork in perpetuity (which they often failed to do in the past, when they were more hobby-like in their dealings, with bad consequences) so they do everything by the book and document it, but for the artist that means that you also have everything in writing and triplicate, which makes being stiffed on your payments or even royalities a very remote possibility. You'll only get what's in the black and white, but that you can be sure of.
Also, as a fun arithmetic, can we calculate prices for the content when buying individually? Would be nice to have concrete figures of the savings of this box compared to evetual retail.. If we assume that the entire contents of the cultist side + books + accessories is needed to play?
I'd wager the campaign book will be around 35€? Cards & Accessories 20€? 3 Cultists kits (Accursed 42,50€, Dark Commune 42,50€, Cultists 40€ = 125€.. so we're looking at a minimum pay-to-play at around 180€ in individual purchases if we miss out on the box.. which jumps to 35€ + 45€ + 50€ = 130€ .. 130 + 180 = 310€!
So, if this box happened to be priced around 140-150€, it will cost close to 300€ to buy the items individually.. Yeah, not into spending 300€ just to get the stuff in this box, I'm either going with the box or just the bare essentials later @ 180€ish
Also, as a fun arithmetic, can we calculate prices for the content when buying individually? Would be nice to have concrete figures of the savings of this box compared to evetual retail.. If we assume that the entire contents of the cultist side + books + accessories is needed to play?
If we cant know how few copies will exist for this box, seeing the numbers will at least give us some "pain factor" to look forward to..
Easily, it's a box of Accursed Cultists + a Dark Commune + Chaos Cultists + a SoS squad + a Tempestus Scions squad + whatever the Inquisition KT retails at.
So 42.50€ + 42.50€ + 40€ + 45€ + 35€ + 50€ (most typical) = 285€ just for the miniatures.
Kanluwen wrote: I feel like there's an untapped market for "GW preorder shortcuts! Guaranteed!" guidebooks...
Also feels like Ashes of Faith was meant to come out sooner.
It's a release that does not feel like it really fit in anywhere, agree. Other people mused that it might have been meant as a box for BSF or a BSF sequel originally, but i doubt that.
Also, as a fun arithmetic, can we calculate prices for the content when buying individually? Would be nice to have concrete figures of the savings of this box compared to evetual retail.. If we assume that the entire contents of the cultist side + books + accessories is needed to play?
I'd wager the campaign book will be around 35€? Cards & Accessories 20€? 3 Cultists kits (Accursed 42,50€, Dark Commune 42,50€, Cultists 40€ = 125€.. so we're looking at a minimum pay-to-play at around 180€ in individual purchases if we miss out on the box.. which jumps to 35€ + 45€ + 50€ = 130€ .. 130 + 180 = 310€!
So, if this box happened to be priced around 140-150€, it will cost close to 300€ to buy the items individually.. Yeah, not into spending 300€ just to get the stuff in this box, I'm either going with the box or just the bare essentials later @ 180€ish
If the box was all new content, I think I wouldn't mind paying the €140 something. But with only three new sprues (whooping six sculpts), a kit that's been on two boxed sets lately (the chaos cultists on Boarding Patrol and on the one with the Dark Angels), and two old kits (Sisters are still good, I think, but the Tempestus are showing their age)... I mean it might seem like it's a good deal, but that's assuming they're worth what GW is selling them for when (for me at least) they're really not.
Kanluwen wrote: Guess it's Burning of Prospero's transfer sheet?
Yep - it's the one the SoS box comes with - "This kit comprises 67 components, and is supplied with 5 Citadel 32mm Round bases and a Burning of Prospero transfer sheet."
Also, as a fun arithmetic, can we calculate prices for the content when buying individually? Would be nice to have concrete figures of the savings of this box compared to evetual retail.. If we assume that the entire contents of the cultist side + books + accessories is needed to play?
I'd wager the campaign book will be around 35€? Cards & Accessories 20€? 3 Cultists kits (Accursed 42,50€, Dark Commune 42,50€, Cultists 40€ = 125€.. so we're looking at a minimum pay-to-play at around 180€ in individual purchases if we miss out on the box.. which jumps to 35€ + 45€ + 50€ = 130€ .. 130 + 180 = 310€!
So, if this box happened to be priced around 140-150€, it will cost close to 300€ to buy the items individually.. Yeah, not into spending 300€ just to get the stuff in this box, I'm either going with the box or just the bare essentials later @ 180€ish
If the box was all new content, I think I wouldn't mind paying the €140 something. But with only three new sprues (whooping six sculpts), a kit that's been on two boxed sets lately (the chaos cultists on Boarding Patrol and on the one with the Dark Angels), and two old kits (Sisters are still good, I think, but the Tempestus are showing their age)... I mean it might seem like it's a good deal, but that's assuming they're worth what GW is selling them for when (for me at least) they're really not.
Only KT21 Season launch boxes have 100% new stuff, most other boxes are always recycling kits.
As for the Scions, agreed, the models have those outdated proportions. I was thinking of kitbashing them with either NuCad or Kasrkin torsos, just using the heads, arms and wargear, should be a considerable improvement.
As for "might seem like a good deal", that's a term I associate with GW rarely tbh. Age Of Darkness was a good deal, Indomitus was a good deal, most other boxes notsomuch. All in all, when it comes to GW, the prices always seem a bit expensive to me, but not so expensive as to price me out from the hobby
The intersection of people who love the Inquisition, want but do not yet own the new Cultist models, and who also need exactly 5 Scions and 5 Sisters of Silence might be small (though not as small as I first thought), but I think that as a proof of concept for narrative boxes that it works well and is of a lower risk than going the whole hog with a full suite a new miniatures.
I've put down with one of the stores I use for a box. Finger's crossed GW allocates more than 1 and a half sets to Australia.
I would normally be well up for the new KT box - KT has been crying out for some INQ content.
I just can't get excited for a box there's absolutely no chance of me getting hold of. I've missed out on the last 3 killteam boxes and I'm still waiting on a box of Kasrkin I ordered months ago.
not being able to get online until 11 am due to working a saturday morning basically rules out killteam for me.....
Also, as a fun arithmetic, can we calculate prices for the content when buying individually? Would be nice to have concrete figures of the savings of this box compared to evetual retail.. If we assume that the entire contents of the cultist side + books + accessories is needed to play?
I'd wager the campaign book will be around 35€? Cards & Accessories 20€? 3 Cultists kits (Accursed 42,50€, Dark Commune 42,50€, Cultists 40€ = 125€.. so we're looking at a minimum pay-to-play at around 180€ in individual purchases if we miss out on the box.. which jumps to 35€ + 45€ + 50€ = 130€ .. 130 + 180 = 310€!
So, if this box happened to be priced around 140-150€, it will cost close to 300€ to buy the items individually.. Yeah, not into spending 300€ just to get the stuff in this box, I'm either going with the box or just the bare essentials later @ 180€ish
If the box was all new content, I think I wouldn't mind paying the €140 something. But with only three new sprues (whooping six sculpts), a kit that's been on two boxed sets lately (the chaos cultists on Boarding Patrol and on the one with the Dark Angels), and two old kits (Sisters are still good, I think, but the Tempestus are showing their age)... I mean it might seem like it's a good deal, but that's assuming they're worth what GW is selling them for when (for me at least) they're really not.
tauist wrote: Only KT21 Season launch boxes have 100% new stuff, most other boxes are always recycling kits.
As for the Scions, agreed, the models have those outdated proportions. I was thinking of kitbashing them with either NuCad or Kasrkin torsos, just using the heads, arms and wargear, should be a considerable improvement.
As for "might seem like a good deal", that's a term I associate with GW rarely tbh. Age Of Darkness was a good deal, Indomitus was a good deal, most other boxes notsomuch. All in all, when it comes to GW, the prices always seem a bit expensive to me, but not so expensive as to price me out from the hobby
Hard to get this quote system working on a mobile phone
But even the recycled kits had some good stuff. For the Infiltrators it brought at least one useful piece (medic), for the CSM also had a great sprue, and both had a great deal of terrain (in Moloch's case even more) plus other new cook kits (Aeldari Corsairs & The Blooded).
Agree with you on the good deal. It looks like it, but only because GW prices are completely bonkers.
At €125 I just might grab one and dump the imperial part.
€125,- for the whole lot? Damn it, I was a bit annoyed that this one dropped so soon after the last season ended, plus not at all looking for more Scions or Sisters of Silence, but at that price, plus the local retailer's discount on top of that, it'll be worth chasing this one down for sure.
That's lovely-I'd really like a copy, but there's no way at current stock levels that anyone is going to be able to get one unless you've got a scalper bot of your own.
125€ is quite aggressive pricing, which drops to around 94€ if you get it from a discounter. Compared to ~300€ this stuff will cost separately, you're looking at 200€ worth of savings.. Them scalpers licking their lips right now
Now, if only there was actual stock for this one..
I'm super interested in this box for the Inq models. I don't have any of the other models either. But I'm especially interested in the idea of a narrative campaign. However, afaik there's absolutely nothing known about the actual campaign. There's some cards, reusable stickers and those 'player boards'. But considering they are not hyping up the campaign at all I don't think it'll be worth it just to get this.
So yeah.. not sure about this. Was there any info at all about the narrative campaign itself?
Dirk wrote: I'm super interested in this box for the Inq models. I don't have any of the other models either. But I'm especially interested in the idea of a narrative campaign. However, afaik there's absolutely nothing known about the actual campaign. There's some cards, reusable stickers and those 'player boards'. But considering they are not hyping up the campaign at all I don't think it'll be worth it just to get this.
So yeah.. not sure about this. Was there any info at all about the narrative campaign itself?
Not yet, but I expect this to change in the next few days. WHC always likes to drip feed us intel about the upcoming preorder almost daily for the entire week leading to the preorder day, so tomorrow or by wednesday night we should know more
Just catching up on Reddit, someone there said Mr Hamer (KT21 designer) has poured a lot of time and love into this Narrative expansion. Since Mr Hamer is a genius (for a GW games designer anyway), I expect this one to be a real treat. We'll know more soon
Another WHC article talking about the Inquisition roster. Inq team roster has 30 slots instead of 20, which is a big deal IMHO. I can see Inq teams becoming top picks in tournament play due to the flexibility afforded by such an expanded roster.
More info about the Narrative rules coming, possibly tomorrow
Pariah Press wrote: What time to preorders go up on Saturday? I don't want to miss this one.
1250pm Eastern is the earliest that they can show up.
I usually hop on 1250pm Eastern and start refreshing the direct page for the pre-order product I want and it tends to pop up at 1255pm Eastern; it's how I nabbed the Tau Boarding Patrol and Gallowfall.
Kinetochore wrote: I would normally be well up for the new KT box - KT has been crying out for some INQ content.
I just can't get excited for a box there's absolutely no chance of me getting hold of. I've missed out on the last 3 killteam boxes and I'm still waiting on a box of Kasrkin I ordered months ago.
not being able to get online until 11 am due to working a saturday morning basically rules out killteam for me.....
I love the idea of the box set, but I know there is no chance of ordering it. It is pretty much a lost cause and GW has ruined KT and with the abrupt end to Gallowdark, it shows they don't have the production capabilities of focusing on anything other then their flagship. I honestly even think 40k will struggle and possibly get the Horus Heresy treatment. Where the box set may be available but every unit after wont.
GW acts like a new business just starting out with poor distribution and release management, you wouldn't think they had been in business for decades. I am moving on, I think Atomic Mass Games, do a lot better with releases and with preorders.
More evidence that this is practically a boardgame in disguise masquerading as a Killteam release
It all looks okay to good-ish, but the sheer impossibility of actually buying anything boxed from GW lately has pushed this release squarely in the 'Sure, cool, whatever' territory for me, and i don't think i'm the only one who feels that way.
Not sure what to make of the campaign just yet. The card play seems okay I guess? Also, the wording when they describe the final mission seems to indicate that it has 4 possible variations, adds a bit of replayability.
More evidence that this is practically a boardgame in disguise masquerading as a Killteam release
It all looks okay to good-ish, but the sheer impossibility of actually buying anything boxed from GW lately has pushed this release squarely in the 'Sure, cool, whatever' territory for me, and i don't think i'm the only one who feels that way.
KT21 core mechanics are solid enough that the game can easily cater to this sort of stuff. I don't really see Ashes being all that different from regular SpecOps, most of the extra stuff piled on top is just adding small things that can affect the games
Not to sound unrealistically optimist, but I for one am still going to at least try getting a box order in before just giving up. Hitting a refresh button aint exactly rocket science, or particularly laborous. I've already visited a couple LGS asking about reserving a box, that already required more effort than refreshing at 11:55 local time will take..
I love the idea of the box set, but I know there is no chance of ordering it. It is pretty much a lost cause and GW has ruined KT and with the abrupt end to Gallowdark, it shows they don't have the production capabilities of focusing on anything other then their flagship. I honestly even think 40k will struggle and possibly get the Horus Heresy treatment. Where the box set may be available but every unit after wont.
GW acts like a new business just starting out with poor distribution and release management, you wouldn't think they had been in business for decades. I am moving on, I think Atomic Mass Games, do a lot better with releases and with preorders.
The result of what is happening is that customers now percieve this box as much more valuable than it really is. Consequently, the inevitable release of separate contents of the box should see appropriately increased demand.
Basically the box is such good value that it would be bad business to let every potential customer have it. It's a scarcity effect builder for regular releases.
I love the idea of the box set, but I know there is no chance of ordering it. It is pretty much a lost cause and GW has ruined KT and with the abrupt end to Gallowdark, it shows they don't have the production capabilities of focusing on anything other then their flagship. I honestly even think 40k will struggle and possibly get the Horus Heresy treatment. Where the box set may be available but every unit after wont.
GW acts like a new business just starting out with poor distribution and release management, you wouldn't think they had been in business for decades. I am moving on, I think Atomic Mass Games, do a lot better with releases and with preorders.
The result of what is happening is that customers now percieve this box as much more valuable than it really is. Consequently, the inevitable release of separate contents of the box should see appropriately increased demand.
Basically the box is such good value that it would be bad business to let every potential customer have it. It's a scarcity effect builder for regular releases.
I don't see Ashes of Faith campaign making much sense for players to invest into unless it's via this box. The models required for the cultist side alone cost 3 times as much as any other KillTeam, and then you need not only the book, but the cards, stickers and extras.
Regular KillTeam season boxes are different, missing out on the box isn't a showstopper, because you can just buy the team you are interested in and the book and you can play. Season boxes just gives you more stuff that you might not even want or need, so missing out on it isn't too bad
Cyel wrote: Basically the box is such good value that it would be bad business to let every potential customer have it. It's a scarcity effect builder for regular releases.
On the other hand, if your customers don't think they'll be able to get the product at all, it defeats the purpose of FOMO marketing.
I dunno. Honestly I don't think the contents are that desirable to the mainstream. The value calculations make it tempting but that's just bollocks based on the number of skus in the box, it isn't *that much* stuff.
Billicus wrote: I dunno. Honestly I don't think the contents are that desirable to the mainstream. The value calculations make it tempting but that's just bollocks based on the number of skus in the box, it isn't *that much* stuff.
You're absolutely right. It all comes down to the demand for the single warband of inquisitor acolytes. We saw how people scrambled for the Kasrkin but had to buy a box of necrons and terrain and such along with it.
Officially it's 10am BST, but plenty of folks advise hitting the website five to ten minutes early and starting to refresh like a maniac is the way to go because pre-orders may go up a few minutes early.
The Emperor has blessed me with a successful order. It seems unfair that GW says that pre-orders start at 10am, but then are open five minutes before that.
Got my hands on the set, and here are my (honest!) thoughts about Ashes of Faith. I also took high-res pictures of the Inquisitorial Agents sprues plus a rundown of all build options.
Fingers crossed the set is not sold out in minutes, check out my review here:
stahly wrote: Got my hands on the set, and here are my (honest!) thoughts about Ashes of Faith. I also took high-res pictures of the Inquisitorial Agents sprues plus a rundown of all build options.
Fingers crossed the set is not sold out in minutes, check out my review here:
Yeah, I guessed what the URL would be for the product on Wayland and I kept refreshing that page. The moment that page existed, the allocation of stock had already sold out.
I will be writing a complaint to GW, doubt it will do anything but maybe if enough people voice their annoyance it may cause them to do the "made to order" preorders again.
I must express my disappointment with the way this release was handled by GW. This box makes zero sense as individual purchases, and they should have understood that.