Wyrmalla wrote: What's that symbol in the back of the Raven Guard picture represent? Just curious. =P
That's a big radiation cannon, right? Looks like a radiation symbol, so it's probably the unit marking for a Destroyer squad (like the arrow for tactical, 4 ways arrows for assault, etc).
those Palatine Blades!!!
i think i just found my newest favorite Forge World sculpts, ever...
very nice details...
they look like they would be great for a Golden Demon entry...
Hi there,
This week we bring you the formidable Palatine Blades of the Emperor's Children Legion alongside the Legion Mk IV Destroyer Squad with jump packs, two Legion Tartaros Terminator bundle sets and a Bolter pack for Legion Seeker squads. We also have news about our sales stand at the Enter the Citadel event being held at Warhammer World next weekend.
Emperor's Children Palatine Blades
A warrior fraternity drawn from the finest swordsmen of the third Legion, the Palatine Blades existed outside of the rigid formations of the Emperor’s Children. They were a duelling society to whose ranks many aspired, and upon whom Fulgrim himself looked with particular favour.
The Emperor’s Children Legion Palatine Blade Squad, designed by Steve Whitehead, is a multi-part resin kit containing five incredibly detailed Space Marines that is available to pre-order now for despatch from Friday 26th July. These miniatures are also perfect for using as officers and commanders in other squads, and rules for these peerless swordsmen can be found in The Horus Heresy Book I: Betrayal.
Legion Mk IV Destroyers
The jump pack, common amongst Space Marine Assault squads, is sometimes utilised by Destroyer squads. The increased mobility they provide enables the Destroyers to deploy more rapidly into battlefield positions, unleashing their destructive arsenal upon the foe.
Designed by Will Hayes, the Legion Mk IV Destroyer Squad with Jump Packs set contains five multi-part resin models with four pairs of Tigrus pattern bolt pistols, as well as three phosphex bombs and a rad missile launcher. These models are available to pre-order now and will be despatched from Friday 26th July.
Legion Seeker Bolters Set
Seeker squad members are recruited from the finest shots in the Legion and tasked with the identification and elimination of the enemy's command structure. To aid them in the kill, Seeker squads are usually equipped with bolters loaded with special issue ammunition.
Designed by Will Hayes, the Legion Seeker Bolter Set contains ten resin Tigrus pattern bolters, each loaded with box magazines. These models are available to pre-order now and will be despatched from Friday 26th July.
Legion Tartaros Terminator Bundles
Following on from the release of our Legion Tartaros Terminator kits last week, we can now announce the release of two new Legion Tartaros Terminator bundle sets.
Four sets of Legion Tartaros Terminators
A Legion Tartaros Terminator Special Weapon Set
Four sets of Legion Tartaros Terminator Power Axes.
Event News
Enter the Citadel
The Forge World Sales Team will be attending Warhammer 40,000: Enter the Citadel, held at Warhammer World in Nottingham on Saturday 13th July. Although this is a ticket only event, on this occasion our sales stand will be outside of the ticketed area and will be accessible to all visitors to Warhammer World. We will also be offering you the exclusive chance to pre-order your copy of Forge World's new Imperial Armour Apocalypse book and will have copies for you to see on the day.
Whilst we will have a limited range of our books and resin models on sale there, we are also taking reservation orders for this event. This is the best way to ensure we have the exact product you want, packed up and waiting for you. As with all our UK shows, reservation orders are pre-paid to make the collection process quicker and easier, leaving you with more time to enjoy the rest of the event.
To place a reservation order for Enter the Citadel, please call us on 0115 900 4995. We will need your name, a contact telephone number and e-mail address, along with the list of products you wish to reserve and you will also need your card details to hand too. We’ll process the payment while you are on the phone, and in the week before the event you’ll receive a confirmation e-mail containing your order number. This is your proof of payment and you must bring this e-mail with you to claim your order. Reservation orders for Enter the Citadel must be placed by Wednesday 10th July.
Games Day North America
A quick reminder, we are still taking reservation orders for Games Day North America on 27th July in Memphis. To place an order you can either telephone us on 011 44 115 900 4995, or send an e-mail entitled ‘Games Day US 2013 Reservation’ to forgeworld@gwplc.com. We will need your name, a list of the items that you wish to order and your e-mail address by Thursday 11th July. In the week prior to the event, we will send you a confirmation e-mail containing your order number, details of any items that are unavailable, and a total cost in US$ (less local sales tax) that will be payable at the event.
Bobthehero wrote: FW has bundles that actually save you money, well riddle me that...
Unlike GW proper (and it's slow assimilation of Black Library into the realms of "pants on head stupid" business practices), FW appears to be run by adults.
Bobthehero wrote: FW has bundles that actually save you money, well riddle me that...
Unlike GW proper (and it's slow assimilation of Black Library into the realms of "pants on head stupid" business practices), FW appears to be run by adults.
Adults with a few questionable practices (VAT shenanagins, bass-ackwards shipping policy), but adults nonetheless.
Their bundles aren't actually bad deals; they basically amount to you pay for the torsos, and get all the gear and weapons for free.
That's just the way they've chosen to make those kind of heavy weapons look, because they have bolter-shaped grips they tend to look like bolter-whatever combiweapons. The same happened and was commented on with their heavy bolters, autocannons and rotor cannons.
Yeah, which is why they did it. They didn't want to make separate gun arms for all the different Legion marine variants in their catalogue (and doing it this way also has the bonus of being easier compatible with the basic plastic Marines.
Is this something Space Marine players accept as cool?
To me both "bolter grip" and leaf blower look like the quick and lazy conversion by a 10 year old beginner for his herpderp chapter.
Yeah, I like the mini-bolter handle/targetter thingy (such as its application with heavy bolters), but the rad missile launcher itself I don't care for.
Just Dave wrote: Yeah, I like the mini-bolter handle/targetter thingy (such as its application with heavy bolters), but the rad missile launcher itself I don't care for.
I guess one could say the the Rad missile launcher isn't that rad at all.
sweetdaddyg wrote: Anyone else noticed that they havent done any edge highlighting on those painted minis? Could this be a new artistic decision by the eavy metal team?
the 'Eavy Metal team doesn't paint the FW minis, they have their own in-house guys...
Phil S., at least, comes from a military modelling background, where paintjobs are a bit more gritty and realistic...
sweetdaddyg wrote: Anyone else noticed that they havent done any edge highlighting on those painted minis? Could this be a new artistic decision by the eavy metal team?
the 'Eavy Metal team doesn't paint the FW minis, they have their own in-house guys...
Phil S., at least, comes from a military modelling background, where paintjobs are a bit more gritty and realistic...
cheers
jah
Honestly, most of the FW paint schemes I find rather bland, and passably but not strikingly executed.
sweetdaddyg wrote: Anyone else noticed that they havent done any edge highlighting on those painted minis? Could this be a new artistic decision by the eavy metal team?
the 'Eavy Metal team doesn't paint the FW minis, they have their own in-house guys...
Phil S., at least, comes from a military modelling background, where paintjobs are a bit more gritty and realistic...
cheers
jah
I'm glad that they do that too, I love the gritty grimdark paintjobs that he gives to the models. Looks really neat.
Kroothawk wrote: Is this something Space Marine players accept as cool?
To me both "bolter grip" and leaf blower look like the quick and lazy conversion by a 10 year old beginner for his herpderp chapter.
I agree that the bolter grip is dumb looking, makes no real sense fluff wise, and seems quite lazy.
sweetdaddyg wrote: Anyone else noticed that they havent done any edge highlighting on those painted minis? Could this be a new artistic decision by the eavy metal team?
the 'Eavy Metal team doesn't paint the FW minis, they have their own in-house guys...
Phil S., at least, comes from a military modelling background, where paintjobs are a bit more gritty and realistic...
cheers
jah
And blow the 'eavy metal team out of the water. FW paintjobs are, by and by, pretty awesome. More realistic paintjobs to match, generally, more realistic model designs.
This was buried in the Warhammer Forge Newsletter, but is pertinent to 40k Players that use Forge World, I think.
Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse Following on from the release of Games Workshop's new Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse expansion, we have put a handy page together which links every Forge World product that can be seen in the book by page reference.
I haven't received the weekly newsletter yet, but for the meantime...
Second speeder with lascannons
Larger and more heavily armoured than the common pattern of Land Speeder, the Javelin Attack Speeder is a nigh-irreplaceable relic of a bygone age of technological mastery. Gravitic nullification plates, the secret of whose production and maintenance have long since been lost, allow the Javelin to mount an array of heavy weaponry more akin to a heavy tank destroyer than a nimble Land Speeder, allowing them to make pinpoint strikes on enemy armour or infantry with devastating lascannon or missile barrage. Those Chapters of Space Marines whose histories stretch back into the grim days of the Imperium’s founding may, if they are fortunate, still possess a few justly revered Javelins within the sanctified depths of their armouries.
Designed by Daren Parrwood, the Javelin Attack Speeder is a multi-part resin kit that is armed with twin-linked lascannon. It is available to pre-order now and will be despatched from Friday 26th July. Rules allowing Space Marine Legions to field these lethal vehicles will be published later in the year. For those of you wanting to use them in your games of Warhammer 40,000, we have provided experimental rules for you to do so here.
I know we know they're on the way, but I'm still a bit jazzed to see more Raven Guard painted models!
Liking the LS, I always intended to get three, have only ever got around to buying two and only have one finished, may well pick one of these up for variety.
An ancient variant of the more common Whirlwind missile tank, the Scorpius was designed with a single purpose in mind – the destruction of heavily armoured infantry. The Scorpius variant replaces the Whirlwind’s multiple missile launcher system with the intricate drum-fed scorpius launcher, whose implosive warheads are devastating to armoured infantry and light vehicles. The Whirlwind Scorpius’ origins lie in the dark days of the first inter-Legion civil war and, in more recent times, it has become an all but forgotten relic amongst some Chapters as the ability to manufacture its complex munitions has become a forgotten art, but for other Chapters it still remains a potent weapon of war.
The Whirlwind Scorpius, designed by Israel Gonzales, is a complete multi-part resin and plastic kit that is available to pre-order now for despatch from Friday 26th July. Rules allowing Space Marine Legions to field this formidable tank will be published later in the year. For those of you wanting to use them in your games of Warhammer 40,000, we have provided experimental rules for you to do so here.
Rules on the speeder are solid. Outflank combined with higher armor for the same cost as a DA Typhoon. Can't do squadrons but if you're looking for a single speeder it's solid.
The models look great, I especially like the turret on the whirlwind.
That said, is suspect its rules will probably get hit with a nerf bat here, AV13 and up to 4 AP3 blasts at less than the cost of a Basilisk is...*really* good.
Just Dave wrote: Wow, both models look great: particularly the Landspeeder. Forge Worlds work (particularly their HH stuff) continues to impress.
The rules for the Landspeeder are good too, way better than the standard. The Whirlwind's rules look pretty solid, providing it stays stationary.
I'm no expert on HH rules, but that land speeder is way to good for it's points for normal 40k.
A DA speeder with a typhoon is 75 points (15 cheaper then C:SM)
So the Javelin gives up the ability to squadron for +1 to F/S armor, outflank, and TLing the missiles. And that's before the upgrade options, some of which are quite nice.
It won't replace suicide speeders, but unless your FA slots are packed and you are fielding a squadron, these things make normal typhoon/HB speeders look like trash.
The whirlwind I have less problems with. It's kinda a cross between a pred and a vindi. And the points seem reasonable for what you are getting. My biggest issue with it is the "whirlwind" in the name. WWs are under-armored mobile artillery. This thing is armored like a MBT.
Just Dave wrote: Wow, both models look great: particularly the Landspeeder. Forge Worlds work (particularly their HH stuff) continues to impress.
The rules for the Landspeeder are good too, way better than the standard. The Whirlwind's rules look pretty solid, providing it stays stationary.
I'm no expert on HH rules, but that land speeder is way to good for it's points for normal 40k.
A DA speeder with a typhoon is 75 points (15 cheaper then C:SM)
So the Javelin gives up the ability to squadron for +1 to F/S armor, outflank, and TLing the missiles. And that's before the upgrade options, some of which are quite nice.
It won't replace suicide speeders, but unless your FA slots are packed and you are fielding a squadron, these things make normal typhoon/HB speeders look like trash.
The whirlwind I have less problems with. It's kinda a cross between a pred and a vindi. And the points seem reasonable for what you are getting. My biggest issue with it is the "whirlwind" in the name. WWs are under-armored mobile artillery. This thing is armored like a MBT.
But is the current Landspeeder not already considered trash?
Just Dave wrote:
But is the current Landspeeder not already considered trash?
Vaktathi wrote:
Only relative to the basic landspeeder. 75pts for an AV11 HP2 missile boat isn't going to break the game.
I pay 90 points for a typhoon/HB speeder as a C:SM player, and while I think they are slightly overpriced, feel they still perform well. They are not a broken, auto-include option, but still valid. I'll be a happy camper if I get the reduction in points from the DA codex. 75 is probably the right price for them.
As I said, I'm no expert on FW or HH stuff. I can only judge things relative to the basic codexes. And this thing is hands down better then it's peer in C:SM, and noticeably better then the one in the more up to date codex Dark Angels. It's not paradigm shifting enough to break the game, but is much better then the options in the normal codexes.
I'd like to see it drop down to AV10, or pick up an extra 15-25 points. I think that would bring it into line with other codex units. My opinion, obviously. YMMV.
Hi there,
This week we have some new vehicles rolling out for pre-order; the Whirlwind Scorpius and the Javelin Attack Speeder, which is available in two weapons variants. Relics of the dark age of the Horus Heresy, examples of these revered war machines still remain in the armouries of the Space Marines of the 41st Millennium. We also have a new Mechanicum Thallax Cohort bundle.
Whirlwind Scorpius
An ancient variant of the more common Whirlwind missile tank, the Scorpius was designed with a single purpose in mind – the destruction of heavily armoured infantry. The Scorpius variant replaces the Whirlwind’s multiple missile launcher system with the intricate drum-fed scorpius launcher, whose implosive warheads are devastating to armoured infantry and light vehicles. The Whirlwind Scorpius’ origins lie in the dark days of the Horus Heresy and, in more recent times, it has become an all but forgotten relic amongst some Chapters as the ability to manufacture its complex munitions has become a lost art, but for other Chapters it still remains a potent weapon of war.
The Whirlwind Scorpius, designed by Israel Gonzalez, is a complete multi-part resin and plastic kit that is available to pre-order now for despatch from Friday 26th July.
Rules for this vehicle will be found in our forthcoming Horus Heresy book. In addition, experimental rules for its use before this book's publication and in your games of Warhammer 40,000 are presented here.
Javelin Attack Speeders
Larger and more heavily armoured than the common pattern of Land Speeder, the Javelin Attack Speeder is a nigh-irreplaceable relic of a bygone age of technological mastery. Gravitic nullification plates, the secret of whose production and maintenance have long since been lost, enable the Javelin to mount an array of heavy weaponry, allowing them to make pinpoint strikes on enemy armour or infantry with devastating lascannon or missile barrage. Those Chapters of Space Marines whose histories stretch back into the grim days of the Imperium’s founding may, if they are fortunate, still possess a few justly revered Javelins within the sanctified depths of their armouries.
Designed by Daren Parrwood, the Javelin Attack Speeder is a multi-part resin kit. There are two variants available with either twin-linked lascannon or twin-linked Cyclone missile launchers. These models are available to pre-order now and will be despatched from Friday 26th July.
Rules for this vehicle will be found in our forthcoming Horus Heresy book. In addition, experimental rules for its use before this book's publication and in your games of Warhammer 40,000 are presented here.
Mechanicum Thallax Cohort Bundle
We've put together a bundle which includes three sets of the Mechanicum Thallax Cohorts, enough for a full sized unit of nine Thallaxii.
Event News
Games Day Germany We are attending Games Day Germany which will be held at the Gürzenich in Cologne on Sunday 11th August, and are still taking reservation orders for this event. Click here to find out how to place a reservation order for this event. We must receive your order by midday UK time on Monday 29th July.
Our studio guests at this show will be model designer Phil Stutcinskas and graphic artist Dominik Oedinger.
Gencon We will be heading over to Indianapolis on August 15th-18th for Gencon, a huge gaming convention held at the Indiana Convention Center. We are taking reservation orders for this event. Click here to find out how to place a reservation order for this event. We must receive your order by midday UK time on Friday 26th July.
Wow, that Whirlwind variant would be perfect as a way for my BT to handle Tau. Needless to say, no one's going to let me play it because it's "too powerful"...
I hope they seriously tone down these rules. This is exactly what people who oppose FW stuff fear it is: stuff that is just plain better than normal codex options. This is unacceptable.
(it also bugs me that the tank has side armour of 12. No Rhino based vehicle has that, not even Vindicator that visibly has way thicker side armour.)
Aren't these also for "Warhammer 30k" and not necessarily regular 40k, or did I miss that. The Heresy stuff, afaik, is better overall than the current stuff but it can still work.
Edit: Oh, and yes, I'll take some speeders. Those are great!
Cruentus wrote: Aren't these also for "Warhammer 30k" and not necessarily regular 40k, or did I miss that. The Heresy stuff, afaik, is better overall than the current stuff but it can still work.
Edit: Oh, and yes, I'll take some speeders. Those are great!
Still, though, an AV13 variant of the Whirlwind... this is eery, first the BT rumors line up with what I've predicted, then an AV13 variant of the Whirlwind shows up shortly after I create custom rules for an AV13 Whirlwind variant. Maybe I should take to rumor mongring?
Those armor values are a bit much. I suspect they will get changed (might even have been a typo to begin with), If anything, the ability for it to sit still and fire of D3+1 shots is a bit over the top. Given that most Whirlwinds usually sit still for most of a game anyway (hiding behind cover), it isn't exactly hard to potentially wipe out an entire Space Marine squad every turn. Maybe just let it fire twice or be twin-linked if it doesn't move would be enough.
In a game where Battlecannons already exist, I think people are perhaps over estimating exactly how effective the new Whirlwind will be. Nasty, quite possibly, but nothing to get too worried about.
azreal13 wrote: In a game where Heldrakes already exist, I think people are perhaps over estimating exactly how effective the new Whirlwind will be. Nasty, quite possibly, but nothing to get too worried about.
Seneca wrote: I find the mention of a first Inter-Legion Civil War in the Scorpius flufftext pretty interesting.
Isn't that just the Horus Heresy?
Are you sure you're not reading it as an intra-legion civil war, such as with the Dark Angels?
It depends whether the fluff is being written from the perspective of 30K or 40K, the blurbs on the FW site have a nasty habit of jumping back and forth between the two even within the same paragraph. If the latter, it means the Heresy, if the former, it could be anything from a quick mention of the whole "humbling of Angron" thing, or yet another "hee hee, we're never going to tell you what happened to the missing legions, but that won't stop us from continually throwing mutually-contradictory hints at you!" reference.
Is it just because its FW that people start whining about units being OP? At least they modify the rules on official release dependant on feedback. I'd hate to see this nerfed like they did DKOK Hades breaching drill.
I'm also thinking, 'Scorpius'? does this mean we will see a handful of variants - Skyfire/interceptor variants perhaps?
Im stuck for potential names though - Sagitarius? Blastius?
Is it just because its FW that people start whining about units being OP?
No. It is because they're OP (FW stuff generally isn't.) That Typhoon land speeder is just plain better than the codex version for the same price (or even cheaper, if you compare to older codices.)
Crimson wrote: That Typhoon land speeder is just plain better than the codex version for the same price (or even cheaper, if you compare to older codices.)
So what? Codex typhoon speeders aren't all that impressive, so making a better one isn't really a problem. It's ok to improve on and replace weaker units, whether that source is FW or a new codex.
Also, the loss of squadroning is not a trivial drawback.
Tannhauser42 wrote: Given that most Whirlwinds usually sit still for most of a game anyway (hiding behind cover), it isn't exactly hard to potentially wipe out an entire Space Marine squad every turn.
Maybe if you play against bad players who never space out their models. It's D3+1 small blasts, which means you should be hitting an average of 3-4 models per turn at most. Add in a potential cover save from area terrain and you're looking at decent firepower, but far short of "an entire space marine squad every turn".
Just for comparison, the average of three shots per turn covers an area of 21 square inches, while the 5" shot from a Basilisk covers 19.6 square inches. Add in the coherency distance factor and the Basilisk is almost always going to be doing more damage.
Seneca wrote: I find the mention of a first Inter-Legion Civil War in the Scorpius flufftext pretty interesting.
Isn't that just the Horus Heresy?
Are you sure you're not reading it as an intra-legion civil war, such as with the Dark Angels?
It depends whether the fluff is being written from the perspective of 30K or 40K, the blurbs on the FW site have a nasty habit of jumping back and forth between the two even within the same paragraph. If the latter, it means the Heresy, if the former, it could be anything from a quick mention of the whole "humbling of Angron" thing, or yet another "hee hee, we're never going to tell you what happened to the missing legions, but that won't stop us from continually throwing mutually-contradictory hints at you!" reference.
To me, it just seems another way of saying "Horus Heresy" without saying "Horus Heresy". I don't see why they would be referring to anything else with it, because if they were, its not like they'd reveal any information about it.
So what? Codex typhoon speeders aren't all that impressive, so making a better one isn't really a problem. It's ok to improve on and replace weaker units, whether that source is FW or a new codex.
Also, the loss of squadroning is not a trivial drawback.
It is a problem if some units get made utterly redundant. In this case blatantly so, exactly same, except better. For free!
Squadron thing matters only if you want field squadrons, most people try to avoid that. DA especially have free FA slots as their bikes get converted to troops anyway and their fliers suck.
I know you're an avid supporter of FW units, so you should be worried about this. This is exactly what most people who are apprehensive about allowing FW fear the FW units are.
Crimson wrote: It is a problem if some units get made utterly redundant. In this case blatantly so, exactly same, except better. For free!
But what you're saying is really bad design. If unit X is weak then requiring that no new unit with a similar role ever be better than X probably means that those new units will be too weak and won't be used. And since nobody likes making unused units, requiring that no C:SM fast shooting unit ever be better than a land speeder is really saying that GW/FW can never design a new fast shooting unit for C:SM. The solution is to just accept that land speeders are a bit on the weak side and refuse to let that cut off all the potential design space of things that would be better than land speeders.
Making units redundant is only a problem if you start making powerful units redundant, because then you quickly get problems with codex creep.
I know you're an avid supporter of FW units, so you should be worried about this. This is exactly what most people who are apprehensive about allowing FW fear the FW units are.
Why would I be worried about a unit that isn't even close to overpowered when sabre guns and heavy artillery exist?
Crimson wrote: It is a problem if some units get made utterly redundant. In this case blatantly so, exactly same, except better. For free!
But what you're saying is really bad design. If unit X is weak then requiring that no new unit with a similar role ever be better than X probably means that those new units will be too weak and won't be used. And since nobody likes making unused units, requiring that no C:SM fast shooting unit ever be better than a land speeder is really saying that GW/FW can never design a new fast shooting unit for C:SM. The solution is to just accept that land speeders are a bit on the weak side and refuse to let that cut off all the potential design space of things that would be better than land speeders.
Making units redundant is only a problem if you start making powerful units redundant, because then you quickly get problems with codex creep.
I know you're an avid supporter of FW units, so you should be worried about this. This is exactly what most people who are apprehensive about allowing FW fear the FW units are.
Why would I be worried about a unit that isn't even close to overpowered when sabre guns and heavy artillery exist?
I think the problem he has is that these new units are just better versions of units we already have... It essentially invalidates units that already exist in the codex in favour of the FW version. He's not talking about external game balance here, but the internal balance of individual codexs becoming disrupted.
IMHO that has been historically a huge problem with alot of the FW releases for space marines.
Lockark wrote: I think the problem he has is that these new units are just better versions of units we already have... It essentially invalidates units that already exist in the codex in favour of the FW version. He's not talking about external game balance here, but the internal balance of individual codexs becoming disrupted.
Yes, but the same principle applies just as much to internal balance (what I was talking about). If you insist that you can never "invalidate" even weak units you cut off a lot of design space and ensure that entire strategies (for example, a fast and cheap gun platform for C:SM) remain less appealing. Sometimes you just have to accept that your new design is going to make something else obsolete.
Surely this supposed invalidation of older units is not all that different to marine codex creep? For example, over on a more power armour centric board you often see army list discussions revolving around getting Dark Angel allies because they now have much cheaper scoring troops able to take special weapons without being full sized, whereas the older codicess don't have this.
The existence of Forge World's allegedly stronger landspeeder at the same time as 'worse' Codex: Space Marine options only means that C:SM is an old book in need of an update and that Games Workshop's fringe subsidiary is carrying on with business as usual.
Also, is this speeder even meant for regular 40k? It's supposed to be a Legion Speeder according to the newsletter, in which case you can't get annoyed about it being our of step with 40k as that's not the system it's supposed to operate in. Just my two pennies.
sockwithaticket wrote: Also, is this speeder even meant for regular 40k? It's supposed to be a Legion Speeder according to the newsletter, in which case you can't get annoyed about it being our of step with 40k as that's not the system it's supposed to operate in. Just my two pennies.
It's for regular 40k, see the "is a X choice for Y codex" note.
So my Space Marine army can take either a normal Land Speeder Typhoon, or a Land Speeder Typhoon with +1 AV, twin-linked, Outflank, a 1 point searchlight, and up to 2 HKMs at 5 points each? And the second one costs 15 points less?
Stuff like this is why people don't like Forge World. I do like Forge World, and I think this is ridiculous.
Kingsley wrote: So my Space Marine army can take either a normal Land Speeder Typhoon, or a Land Speeder Typhoon with +1 AV, twin-linked, Outflank, a 1 point searchlight, and up to 2 HKMs at 5 points each? And the second one costs 15 points less?
Exactly. Typhoon speeders got a nice little boost that might actually make them an appealing choice. Would you prefer that they remain a mediocre option that costs way too many points?
sockwithaticket wrote: Also, is this speeder even meant for regular 40k? It's supposed to be a Legion Speeder according to the newsletter, in which case you can't get annoyed about it being our of step with 40k as that's not the system it's supposed to operate in. Just my two pennies.
It's for regular 40k, see the "is a X choice for Y codex" note.
Fair enough, that'll teach me to comment on things before I've had my morning coffee!
Kingsley wrote: So my Space Marine army can take either a normal Land Speeder Typhoon, or a Land Speeder Typhoon with +1 AV, twin-linked, Outflank, a 1 point searchlight, and up to 2 HKMs at 5 points each? And the second one costs 15 points less?
Stuff like this is why people don't like Forge World. I do like Forge World, and I think this is ridiculous.
As mentioned new codex makes units cheaper, let's wait and see what the new SM codex will cost them.
The existence of Forge World's allegedly stronger landspeeder at the same time as 'worse' Codex: Space Marine options only means that C:SM is an old book in need of an update and that Games Workshop's fringe subsidiary is carrying on with business as usual.
Regular land speeder is not 'worse', it is worse this is a case of comparing units that are otherwise identical, except other has more armour and special rules for free. And I know vanilla marine codex is old, which is why I was comparing it to DA book where the price of the Typhoon is already reduced -- and it is the exact same price as this clearly superior FW version. This is not case of FW rules invalidating an unit from some old codex, it is FW rules invalidating a unit that just got price cut from a new codex.
Tannhauser42 wrote: Given that most Whirlwinds usually sit still for most of a game anyway (hiding behind cover), it isn't exactly hard to potentially wipe out an entire Space Marine squad every turn.
Maybe if you play against bad players who never space out their models. It's D3+1 small blasts, which means you should be hitting an average of 3-4 models per turn at most. Add in a potential cover save from area terrain and you're looking at decent firepower, but far short of "an entire space marine squad every turn".
Just for comparison, the average of three shots per turn covers an area of 21 square inches, while the 5" shot from a Basilisk covers 19.6 square inches. Add in the coherency distance factor and the Basilisk is almost always going to be doing more damage.
I did say "potentially." I did not say it was a guarantee. Second, maximum coherency spacing is an ideal, but not always a reality, due to the vagaries of terrain and cover on different game boards, as well as different armies.
d-usa wrote: Let's also keep in mind that these are experiential rules.
I do and I'm pretty sure FW designers read threads like these, so it is important to voice any concerns. Though it might be more effective to mail them.
Kingsley wrote: So my Space Marine army can take either a normal Land Speeder Typhoon, or a Land Speeder Typhoon with +1 AV, twin-linked, Outflank, a 1 point searchlight, and up to 2 HKMs at 5 points each? And the second one costs 15 points less?
Exactly. Typhoon speeders got a nice little boost that might actually make them an appealing choice. Would you prefer that they remain a mediocre option that costs way too many points?
Yes. FW shouldn't expand the design space, they should work within the lines. FW's willingness to take the game in a new direction is the main reason their rules aren't widely accepted, as the direction that FW seems to want to take the game in is different than that preferred by GW and many players. I say this as someone who owns dozens of FW models.
I agree with Peregrine here: I don't think new units should be made bad (or mediocre or whatever) just because existing/old units are; better to buck the trend and make the new stuff worthwhile IMHO, even if that means outdating older rules.
Just Dave wrote: I agree with Peregrine here: I don't think new units should be made bad (or mediocre or whatever) just because existing/old units are; better to buck the trend and make the new stuff worthwhile IMHO, even if that means outdating older rules.
That's true for GW but not for FWIMO. FW rules that outclass GW ones always tend to leave a bad taste in people's mouths.
Just Dave wrote: I agree with Peregrine here: I don't think new units should be made bad (or mediocre or whatever) just because existing/old units are; better to buck the trend and make the new stuff worthwhile IMHO, even if that means outdating older rules.
That's true for GW but not for FWIMO. FW rules that outclass GW ones always tend to leave a bad taste in people's mouths.
Agreed. Many people already see Forgeworld as a "pay-to-win" element that is often priced outside of the average player's reach. It's fine when FW releases something inferior or on par with widely released Codex rules, but to release something clearly superior, that only reinforces those people's negative opinions. That's not to say Forgeworld should not make good stuff, but not something that basically outclasses a Codex unit to the point where the Codex unit is completely obsolete in favor of the FW replacement.
[EDIT} It has been mentioned this could be a sign of things to come with the upcoming Space Marine Codex, but let's not forget that the Dark Angels are still a very new book, and for the same price as the Javelin, a Dark Angels Typhoon doesn't have the twin-linked missiles, Outflank and the extra armor.
Kingsley wrote: So my Space Marine army can take either a normal Land Speeder Typhoon, or a Land Speeder Typhoon with +1 AV, twin-linked, Outflank, a 1 point searchlight, and up to 2 HKMs at 5 points each? And the second one costs 15 points less?
Stuff like this is why people don't like Forge World. I do like Forge World, and I think this is ridiculous.
No, people dislike Forgeworld because they're A; unable/unwilling to buy the books, and for some reason think this gives them the right to decide how other people write their army lists, B; have become so entrenched in their petty semantics over what exactly the word "official" means that they require nothing less than a contract signed in blood by Kirby himself and conveyed to them on a silk cushion by angels set to an orchestral fanfare personally conducted by the disembodied spirit of Bach before they will include FW units within that meaning, C; are capable of cognitive dissonance so enormous you'd think they'd had their corpus callosum surgically severed as they accuse FW of making overpowered imbalanced rules while simultaneously handwaving away the fact that GW can't go more than three codices in a row without giving powergamers an entirely new set of unbalanced tools, D; don't like that their personal favourite army doesn't get the amount of attention from FW that they'd like and so don't think anyone else should be able to enjoy it either, or E; insist on concluding that a unit is terminally overpowered based on the Experimental rules and have never, in my experience, bothered to actually playtest those rules in an actual game and submit feedback.
Most Forgeworld units are either underpowered or overcosted, and GW put out far more imbalanced "Heldrake" units than FW do "old-Hades Drill" style ones, but that hasn't prevented a dedicated few from perpetuating this irritating myth that FW are some sort of powergamer paradise.
Kingsley wrote: So my Space Marine army can take either a normal Land Speeder Typhoon, or a Land Speeder Typhoon with +1 AV, twin-linked, Outflank, a 1 point searchlight, and up to 2 HKMs at 5 points each? And the second one costs 15 points less?
Stuff like this is why people don't like Forge World. I do like Forge World, and I think this is ridiculous.
No, people dislike Forgeworld because they're A; unable/unwilling to buy the books, and for some reason think this gives them the right to decide how other people write their army lists, B; have become so entrenched in their petty semantics over what exactly the word "official" means that they require nothing less than a contract signed in blood by Kirby himself and conveyed to them on a silk cushion by angels set to an orchestral fanfare personally conducted by the disembodied spirit of Bach before they will include FW units within that meaning, C; are capable of cognitive dissonance so enormous you'd think they'd had their corpus callosum surgically severed as they accuse FW of making overpowered imbalanced rules while simultaneously handwaving away the fact that GW can't go more than three codices in a row without giving powergamers an entirely new set of unbalanced tools, D; don't like that their personal favourite army doesn't get the amount of attention from FW that they'd like and so don't think anyone else should be able to enjoy it either, or E; insist on concluding that a unit is terminally overpowered based on the Experimental rules and have never, in my experience, bothered to actually playtest those rules in an actual game and submit feedback.
Most Forgeworld units are either underpowered or overcosted, and GW put out far more imbalanced "Heldrake" units than FW do "old-Hades Drill" style ones, but that hasn't prevented a dedicated few from perpetuating this irritating myth that FW are some sort of powergamer paradise.
well said good sir. and its not like people wont go oh look here is my typhoon speeder as a counts as fw model.
Tannhauser42 wrote: It's fine when FW releases something inferior or on par with widely released Codex rules, but to release something clearly superior, that only reinforces those people's negative opinions. That's not to say Forgeworld should not make good stuff, but not something that basically outclasses a Codex unit to the point where the Codex unit is completely obsolete in favor of the FW replacement.
And, again, when the codex unit is a weak one refusing to allow anyone to outclass it just cuts off valuable design space. The FW speeder just fixes the codex typhoon and makes it a viable option, you should be celebrating that now the basic concept of the unit is useful.
No, people dislike Forgeworld because they're A; unable/unwilling to buy the books, and for some reason think this gives them the right to decide how other people write their army lists
Yup, that's exactly what they can do. Here's a tip, you don't get to force an opponent to play against you.
And in any case, in my experience, an opponent (or me), is just as likely to tell someone to bugger off if they show up with 3 Helldrakes or if they turn up with an ironclad dreadnought in a dreadnought drop pod.
Which by the way, I did play against and found to be as much bs as its reputation gave it.
Tannhauser42 wrote: It's fine when FW releases something inferior or on par with widely released Codex rules, but to release something clearly superior, that only reinforces those people's negative opinions. That's not to say Forgeworld should not make good stuff, but not something that basically outclasses a Codex unit to the point where the Codex unit is completely obsolete in favor of the FW replacement.
And, again, when the codex unit is a weak one refusing to allow anyone to outclass it just cuts off valuable design space. The FW speeder just fixes the codex typhoon and makes it a viable option, you should be celebrating that now the basic concept of the unit is useful.
What's our balance point? I think both sides of the FW debate can agree that there is a large spread of quality in any book, regardless of which branch of GW publishes it. There are the good units, the OK stuff, and the trash. There may or may not be stand out broken stuff (for good or bad) depending. I would prefer they based the game around the "OK" level, rather then just adding more high-powered units. This speeder might be in line with sabre platforms, vendettas, helldrakes, etc. on the high end of "good"
The problem is how GW operates. Balance usually happens when you get a new codex. They don't admit to screwing up and do things like adjust prices in the errata. So when something is falls on the outside of the power curve, high or low, it stays there for a long time. GW doesn't (generally) nudge units back towards the center to keep things balanced.
Just because there are already a number of units pushing the high end of the power curve does not mean there need to be more there. In my mind, this is not a GW/FW argument, but an issue of where the balance is. If the title of this thread was "rumored leaks for new SM codex" I'd still have issues with the new speeder. It blows the curve for the old C:SM, and is even better then the new DA codex.
Tannhauser42 wrote: It's fine when FW releases something inferior or on par with widely released Codex rules, but to release something clearly superior, that only reinforces those people's negative opinions. That's not to say Forgeworld should not make good stuff, but not something that basically outclasses a Codex unit to the point where the Codex unit is completely obsolete in favor of the FW replacement.
And, again, when the codex unit is a weak one refusing to allow anyone to outclass it just cuts off valuable design space. The FW speeder just fixes the codex typhoon and makes it a viable option, you should be celebrating that now the basic concept of the unit is useful.
What's our balance point? I think both sides of the FW debate can agree that there is a large spread of quality in any book, regardless of which branch of GW publishes it. There are the good units, the OK stuff, and the trash. There may or may not be stand out broken stuff (for good or bad) depending. I would prefer they based the game around the "OK" level, rather then just adding more high-powered units. This speeder might be in line with sabre platforms, vendettas, helldrakes, etc. on the high end of "good"
A 2HP AV11 vehicle isn't going to be anywhere near Sabres, Vendettas or Heldrakes. It's better than a Land Speeder Typhoon, but Land Speeder Typhoons haven't exactly been dominating everything in 6th edition.
A 2HP AV11 vehicle isn't going to be anywhere near Sabres, Vendettas or Heldrakes. It's better than a Land Speeder Typhoon, but Land Speeder Typhoons haven't exactly been dominating everything in 6th edition.
They've been 90 points in C:SM for the whole time. 75 points in DA since they got their codex.
IMHO they've been worth fielding, but a little overpriced at 90. 75 feels right. All the DA players I know are doing pure terminator armies, never seen them field speeders. Land speeders have never been one of the top dog, power units. They have always been a middle of the road choice.
Will this new one hit the "Top 5 most broken units" list? probably not. There is some nasty stuff out there. Will it dominate the FA slot of it's own codex. Yes. It was probably a mistake to list those units as peers, but I was trying to get the point across of "do we balance to the middle, or the edge"
Wayback machine personal anecdote time: Back when M:tG was new, before all the expansions and reprintings, my local group would refer to cards of a certain power level as "Serra Angels", after the white creature of the same name. These were not the game breaking power cards (like the black lotus) but cards that were just a -little- too good. They rode the line of balance, never being so overt to make the banned list, or get house ruled, but clearly ahead of the pack. When there is just one, having a few in your deck wasn't a bad thing. But as more cards of that level were printed, you could make an entire deck out of them. Power creep had set in, and the game balance had been altered.
edit: Sorry, was typing this before the Mod, I'll stop now.
Nevelon wrote: Will it dominate the FA slot of it's own codex. Yes.
Again, so what? If it dominates it's because fast attack in C:SM is so weak with few, if any, viable options. Refusing to allow C:SM to get good fast attack because the first one will dominate all the bad options for a while is bad design.
Wayback machine personal anecdote time: Back when M:tG was new, before all the expansions and reprintings, my local group would refer to cards of a certain power level as "Serra Angels", after the white creature of the same name. These were not the game breaking power cards (like the black lotus) but cards that were just a -little- too good. They rode the line of balance, never being so overt to make the banned list, or get house ruled, but clearly ahead of the pack. When there is just one, having a few in your deck wasn't a bad thing. But as more cards of that level were printed, you could make an entire deck out of them. Power creep had set in, and the game balance had been altered.
Sounds like you were just not that good at MTG. Serra Angels were never a powerful card, and taking lots of them in your deck was just a good way to make a weak deck. The illusion that they were "good" is entirely due to the lack of communication back then preventing people from really analyzing the game and understanding it the way we understand modern 40k.
Despoiler Squads for MKII, III and IV and Reaver Attack Squad for the Sons of Horus. I like their helmets ...
If it hasn't been posted already;
Reaver squads in many ways epitomised the Sons of Horus Legion’s way of war. Heavily influenced by the tactics used in the incessant tribal warfare of Cthonia, Reaver units specialised in lightning-swift assaults which maimed and disabled their foes; striking down leaders, and mercilessly cutting down any who were weak or isolated. Each Reaver unit, whether squad or entire company in strength, was effectively a warband in its own right, and its warriors fought more as individuals than regimented soldiers, and all were utterly lethal against the enemies of Mankind during the Great Crusade.
If fighting is expected to be at close quarters, such as in boarding actions or trench clearance, Tactical squads can sometimes forgo the standard bolter in favour of the combination of a bolt pistol and chainsword, allowing the Astartes more manoeuvrability in whatever tight confines they may find themselves in. These more assault orientated units are referred to as Despoiler Squads within the Legiones Astartes.
I'm a fan of the Reaver squad, which would make some really cool Chaos Chosen. The Despoiler squads just seem quite bland.
Hi there,
Up for pre-order this week we have Mk II, Mk III and Mk IV Despoiler squads, and a unique Sons of Horus unit in the form of the Reaver Attack Squad. As well as this, we also have some exciting news regarding this weekend’s Games Day North America.
Sons of Horus Reaver Attack Squad
Reaver squads in many ways epitomised the Sons of Horus Legion’s way of war. Heavily influenced by the tactics used in the incessant tribal warfare of Cthonia, Reaver units specialised in lightning-swift assaults which maimed and disabled their foes; striking down leaders, and mercilessly cutting down any who were weak or isolated. Each Reaver unit, whether squad or entire company in strength, was effectively a warband in its own right, and its warriors fought more as individuals than regimented soldiers, and all were utterly lethal against the enemies of Mankind during the Great Crusade.
The Sons of Horus Reaver Attack Squad, designed by Alfonso Giraldes, is a multi-part resin kit containing five incredibly detailed Space Marines, five bolt pistols, five chain axes, a power fist, a hand flamer, five helmeted heads and one Sergeant head. This kit is available to pre-order now for despatch from Friday 2nd August.
Rules for the Sons of Horus Reaver Attack Squad will be found in our forthcoming Horus Heresy book.
Legion Despoiler Squads
If fighting is expected to be at close quarters, such as in boarding actions or trench clearance, Tactical squads can sometimes forgo the standard bolter in favour of the combination of a bolt pistol and chainsword, allowing the Astartes more manoeuvrability in whatever tight confines they may find themselves in. These more assault orientated units are referred to as Despoiler Squads within the Legiones Astartes.
The Mk II, Mk III and Mk IV Despoiler Squads, designed by Will Hayes, are complete multi-part resin kits comprising five Space Marines armed with bolt pistols and chainswords. All three kits are available to pre-order now for despatch from Friday 2nd August.
Event News
Games Day North America
Forge World will be over in Memphis this weekend for Games Day North America. We will have limited quantities of our new Imperial Armour: Apocalypse book available on the day, and you can find out more about the contents of the book and what units and formations you'll find within here. Those of you fortunate enough to be attending the event will also have a final chance to get hold of some of our 2012 Show only figures in the US: the Imperial Enforcer with Cyber Mastiff and the Warhammer Forge Skin Wolf.
Games Day Germany Our studio guests at this year’s Games Day Germany will be Phil Stutcinskas and Dominik Oedinger. They’ll be bringing along samples of their work to show and discuss, plus offering some insight into their future Forge World projects!
We will also have some of the fantastic new releases that we’ve been announcing over the last few weeks available in limited quantities at the Forge World sales stand.
We are still taking reservation orders for this event. Click here to find out how to place a reservation order. We must receive your order by midday UK time on Monday 29th July. If you would like to purchase a ticket for this event, click here.
Gencon We will be heading over to Indianapolis on August 15th-18th for Gencon; a huge gaming convention held at the Indiana Convention Center. Sadly the deadline for reservations for this event has passed, however if you want to order something at the show that we don't have in stock, we will send to you with free shipping.
Ratius wrote: What is a Thunderhawk transporter? A sub version of the TH or a huge cargo carrier? 0_o
Good to see new biomorphs for the Hierophant too.
Thunderhawk Transporter is a Thunderhawk that can transport things
It has attachment points to carry 2 Rhinos or 1 Land Raider.
I find it interesting that the Stormblade is missing from the IA: Apoc book. Also, sorry if i missed it, but have they said when they'll release the new book?
"Hey, we have formed new squads within the Legion that excel at assault ... what shall we name them, Brother?"
"Erm... oooh, tough one... good at assault you say? And a squad? And we need a squad name that says they are an assault-y squad... Mmmmmm. Tough one..."
"How about... Assau... As... DESPOILER SQUAD!"
"Perfect. It's so obvious there's literally no name more obvious for an assault-y squad!!"
JohnnyHell wrote: "Hey, we have formed new squads within the Legion that excel at assault ... what shall we name them, Brother?"
"Erm... oooh, tough one... good at assault you say? And a squad? And we need a squad name that says they are an assault-y squad... Mmmmmm. Tough one..."
"How about... Assau... As... DESPOILER SQUAD!"
"Perfect. It's so obvious there's literally no name more obvious for an assault-y squad!!"
"None at all. Praise the Emperor!"
Well, it can actually make sense.
Dictionary definition of despoil:
1. To sack; plunder.
2. To deprive of something valuable by force; rob
And despoiler is also a synonym for raider. I think all these fit the theme of a unit that assaults fairly well.
It also might just be to keep their Mk Whatever Assault Squats (with jump packs) easier to separate from their Mk Whatever Assault Squats (without jump packs).
JohnnyHell wrote: "Hey, we have formed new squads within the Legion that excel at assault ... what shall we name them, Brother?"
"Erm... oooh, tough one... good at assault you say? And a squad? And we need a squad name that says they are an assault-y squad... Mmmmmm. Tough one..."
"How about... Assau... As... DESPOILER SQUAD!"
"Perfect. It's so obvious there's literally no name more obvious for an assault-y squad!!"
"None at all. Praise the Emperor!"
Awesome. I was thinking the exact same thing, hoping the despoiler squads were something new. No. They're assault squads that dont have jetpacks....
@Tannhauser - I guess I can wait, as long as we get one. I'm just so itching to see a model for it, it's killing me.
JohnnyHell wrote: "Hey, we have formed new squads within the Legion that excel at assault ... what shall we name them, Brother?"
"Erm... oooh, tough one... good at assault you say? And a squad? And we need a squad name that says they are an assault-y squad... Mmmmmm. Tough one..."
"How about... Assau... As... DESPOILER SQUAD!"
"Perfect. It's so obvious there's literally no name more obvious for an assault-y squad!!"
"None at all. Praise the Emperor!"
Awesome. I was thinking the exact same thing, hoping the despoiler squads were something new. No. They're assault squads that dont have jetpacks....
@Tannhauser - I guess I can wait, as long as we get one. I'm just so itching to see a model for it, it's killing me.
They are not assault marines without jetpacks, they are tactical squads that have swapped their bolters for BP/CCW. Completely different...
Tannhauser42 wrote: I find it interesting that the Stormblade is missing from the IA: Apoc book. Also, sorry if i missed it, but have they said when they'll release the new book?
It is?
That's my second favorite Super Heavy tank!
Where are the Apocalypse rules for it these days then?
So it looks like the Tesseract Ark is going to have an Apocalypse profile, and they're putting the Pylon in again. I really hope they don't change it from it's current incarnation.
I'm curious to see if they give the Scorpion a points reduction. With the advent of the 'Laser Lock' rule for Scatter Lasers, the Lynx is by far a better overall weapons platform for the cost.
Farseer Faenyin wrote: I'm curious to see if they give the Scorpion a points reduction. With the advent of the 'Laser Lock' rule for Scatter Lasers, the Lynx is by far a better overall weapons platform for the cost.
They probably won't even think about that. The basic Baneblade went up in points, AND they even took away the autocannon's coaxial rule.
A little late to the update, but I am loving that new Landspeeder. Who even needs new rules? I would be happy just using the excellent model in the place of a plastic Typhoon.
I to am curious how despoiler squads will be different from tactical squads with bolt pistol/ccw's... possibly grenades/special rules? surely they can't just be the same otherwise why bother with the different name?
Olly wrote: I to am curious how despoiler squads will be different from tactical squads with bolt pistol/ccw's... possibly grenades/special rules? surely they can't just be the same otherwise why bother with the different name?
Tactical squads using close combat weapons are called Despoiler squads, it's in the description of the models.
Olly wrote: I to am curious how despoiler squads will be different from tactical squads with bolt pistol/ccw's... possibly grenades/special rules? surely they can't just be the same otherwise why bother with the different name?
Tactical squads using close combat weapons are called Despoiler squads, it's in the description of the models.
Olly wrote: I to am curious how despoiler squads will be different from tactical squads with bolt pistol/ccw's... possibly grenades/special rules? surely they can't just be the same otherwise why bother with the different name?
Tactical squads using close combat weapons are called Despoiler squads, it's in the description of the models.
Hang on though didnt the reavers squad in Horus Rising have jump packs? The captain was called something like kaius or falkus ekkadon can't remember off the top of my head but I assumed that reavers squads were just the cthonian name for its assault squads.
Olly wrote: I to am curious how despoiler squads will be different from tactical squads with bolt pistol/ccw's... possibly grenades/special rules? surely they can't just be the same otherwise why bother with the different name?
Tactical squads using close combat weapons are called Despoiler squads, it's in the description of the models.
That's... Rather dumb, actually.
One assumes they'll be troops, however.
In FW's HH:Betrayal, the basic tactical squad (troop choice) can number 10-20 men, and can swap their bolters for Bolt Pistols and CCW for free.
I don't recall them being called Despoiler squads in the book, though. It might say it in the fluff, but my books are at home.
Edit: Adding links from the Games Day thread in the first post...
My first thought when I saw the despoilers was, "pre-Chaos berzerkers." The reavers in particular look like berzerkers, without any of the Khorne aesthetic.
Includes one Necron Tomb Sentinel and three Necron Tomb Stalkers. This bundle has been put together by the Forge World sales team and is not a battle formation.featured in Imperial Armour Apocalypse.
Includes one Tyranid Hierophant Bio Titan, one Tyranid Scythed Hierodule and one Tyranid Barbed Hierodule. This bundle has been put together by the Forge World sales team and is not a battle formation.featured in Imperial Armour Apocalypse.
And so on, and so forth. 7 of the 23 "bundles" on this page are not, in fact, actually bundles.
I like the guys at Forge World, and though I've had plenty of criticism of they QC, I love their modelling, their customer service is pretty good, and they seem like pretty nice guys. However, I operate on a "credit where credit's due" system much like HBMC.
This requires that I call them out on their deceptive and shady practice of selling bundles packaged in with the Apocalypse ones, advertising them as Apocalypse ones in the newsletter, giving them names that imply they are a legitimate formation, and organizing them under \Home\Warhammer 40,000\Apocalypse Battle Formations\ButNotReallyLoL. That's the kind of garbage GWS proper does, not FW, and it's below them.
Unless these are formations under some other book? Please tell me they are and I'm just dumb.
---
So, on the other hand - have you guys noticed that the bundles have a discount? I didn't check all of them, but the Ork Dread one is like $30 off, just about 10%. Nice.
Includes one Necron Tomb Sentinel and three Necron Tomb Stalkers. This bundle has been put together by the Forge World sales team and is not a battle formation.featured in Imperial Armour Apocalypse.
Includes one Tyranid Hierophant Bio Titan, one Tyranid Scythed Hierodule and one Tyranid Barbed Hierodule. This bundle has been put together by the Forge World sales team and is not a battle formation.featured in Imperial Armour Apocalypse.
And so on, and so forth. 7 of the 23 "bundles" on this page are not, in fact, actually bundles.
I like the guys at Forge World, and though I've had plenty of criticism of they QC, I love their modelling, their customer service is pretty good, and they seem like pretty nice guys. However, I operate on a "credit where credit's due" system much like HBMC.
This requires that I call them out on their deceptive and shady practice of selling bundles packaged in with the Apocalypse ones, advertising them as Apocalypse ones in the newsletter, giving them names that imply they are a legitimate formation, and organizing them under \Home\Warhammer 40,000\Apocalypse Battle Formations\ButNotReallyLoL. That's the kind of garbage GWS proper does, not FW, and it's below them.
Unless these are formations under some other book? Please tell me they are and I'm just dumb.
---
So, on the other hand - have you guys noticed that the bundles have a discount? I didn't check all of them, but the Ork Dread one is like $30 off, just about 10%. Nice.
Those ones that are 'missing' are actually noted as not being formations on the site if you look at the descriptions. They are simply bundles to offer you a savings. The Tau air defense cadre saves you 26£ for instance. What I found interesting is that Chaos can now take the Storm Eagle and Thunderhawk now. I'm not entirely surprised, but its nice to see.
Ouze wrote: So, on the other hand - have you guys noticed that the bundles have a discount? I didn't check all of them, but the Ork Dread one is like $30 off, just about 10%. Nice.
The Pylon-formation (which can be found in the book) is 165 GBP.
Buying them separately would come down to 231 GBP.
It's a 75 Euro discount, which is almost 100 dollar!
I have to say some of the 'Formations' are good savings for those that are wanting to buy into the Apoc game. For instance the Eldar and Imperial Titan Formations:
Eldar Spirit Defender Host comes out to a savings of £85, or $129.82
The Imperial Tian formation comes out to a savings of £85, or $190.97.
While the Stormblade is in the newly revised IA1 book, so are the original Baneblade variants that got changed in the new Apoc book, I would assume those Stormblade rules to still be "official" until newer ones are published.
Apologies for the delay in getting the Newsletter up, but I was on a house hunting trip and decidedly busy. Also, all of the pertinent information has already been posted so shut up.
Newleter 353
Imperial Armour: Apocalypse is the ultimate reference for using Forge World's extensive range of tanks, aircraft, fortifications and gargantuan creatures in cataclysmic games of Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse. Contained within this tome are over 75 updated unit profiles, ready to be added to armies for both Warhammer 40,000 and Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse, as well as 16 Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse Formations, and additional rules and options for the immense Tyranid Hierophant Bio-Titan. From the hideously warped Chaos Reaver and Warhound Titans and the sprawling precincts of the Necron City of the Dead, to the lightning-fast Eldar Hornet, this book contains vital additions to the arsenal of every major faction embroiled in the eternal war for control of the galaxy.
Also included is an entire new War Zone for use with the Warhammer 40,000 rules, War Zone: Vraks. Charting the course of the bloody wars that followed the apostate Cardinal Xaphan's conquest of the Imperial fortress world of Vraks, this war zone includes three full Apocalypse missions, as well as character profiles and Finest Hours for the war's key participants, and Strategic Assets and Unnatural Disasters unique to the Vraks conflict.
This book is available to pre-order now and will be despatched from Friday 9th August. To celebrate the launch of Imperial Armour: Apocalypse, we also have a range of Battle Formation bundles available.
"There is no military dilemma that cannot be solved by the application of extreme firepower."
Colonel Sidnus Graene
128th Sarenian Heavy Tank Comapny
Forge World Writer Neil Wylie discuses the contents of our new Imperial Armour: Apocalypse book in the video below.
Games Day Germany Our studio guests at this year’s Games Day Germany will be Phil Stutcinskas and Dominik Oedinger. They’ll be bringing along samples of their work to show and discuss, plus offering some insight into their future Forge World projects!
We will also have some of the fantastic new releases that we’ve been announcing over the last few weeks available in limited quantities at the Forge World sales stand.
Gencon We will be heading over to Indianapolis on August 15th-18th for Gencon, a huge gaming convention held at the Indiana Convention Center. We can be found at booth 1835.
Horus Heresy: Betrayal Gaming Weekend We will be attending this event on Saturday 24th August 2013. It takes place at Warhammer World in Nottingham, and tickets can be purchased here. We will be bringing along a wide selection of our Horus Hersey product range, including The Horus Heresy Book One - Betrayal, as well as our show only models for 2013.
We have revised the Siege list for the Death Korps of Krieg, this now has the Warhammer 40,000 stamp on the front as well as some corrections over the previous list.
The Castellax is wondrous, I'm going to have to struggle not to buy a full unit immediately, my wallet would have an immediate stroke. Hoping against hope that they put out Experimental rules to use them in 40K like they have with the Heresy-era Space Marine vehicles.
The Magos....hmm. I don't know, I was expecting him to be hovering, with a shriveled old corpsicle techpriest suspended from the Blanchian shell-thing, instead he appears to be some kind of mechanical slug, and the pose makes him look rather like he's about to sprawl flat on his face. Still, the constituent parts are stunning, so I'll be getting one anyway even if only to hack apart and make several conversions out of.
Forge World Newsletter #354 wrote:Castellan Battle-automata
The powerful Castellax pattern is the most common of the widespread Castellan-type Battle-automata in service at the outbreak of the Horus Heresy. A general battle unit developed by the Legio Cybernetica during the Great Crusade from its ancient forebear, it is primarily intended for siege work and shock assaults, and is heavily armed and armoured, with a notoriously aggressive and responsive machine spirit, which has fashioned for it an enviable reputation on the battlefield.
The Castellax, deployed in units of one to five by the Legio Cybernetica, has a standard configuration of bolter and bolt cannon armament, and is able to maintain a punishing barrage of firepower as it advances.
Designed by Will Hayes, the Castellax Battle-automata is a complete multi-part resin kit, and includes a mauler bolt cannon primary weapon and the choice of bolters or flamers as secondary weapons. This model is available to pre-order now and will be despatched from Friday 30th August. Rules for this model can be found in our forthcoming Horus Heresy book.
"Those we had once called ‘brother’ unleashed all the terrors of Old Night upon us. Crawling phosphex infernos and rad storms left only blackened corpses in their wake – until the Castellax strode forth. No rad-phage or flame could stall their advance, and their soulless gaze promised death to any who stood in their path." -Legionary Shendrak Nal’kor,
Salamanders Legion
Mechanicum Magos
The Magos of the Priesthood of Mars are the masters of much of what remains of the vast and potent secrets of the Dark Age of Technology. The Magos Dominus in particular are entrusted with the dread lore of the Legio Cybernetica, including the mastery of Battle-automata for which the Legio is justly feared. Fusions of flesh and machine themselves, the Magos Dominus further armour and arm themselves for the battlefield by integrating their bodies into hovering abeyant platforms, studded with weapons, defensive systems and the means to control and augment their inhuman servants in battle.
The Magos Dominus with Rad-Clenser, designed by Mark Bedford, is a complete resin kit, and includes a Magos Dominus equipped with a volkite serpent, cortex controller, abeyant and the option of a rad/irad clenser. This model is available to pre-order now and will be despatched from Friday 30th August. Rules for this model can be found in our forthcoming Horus Heresy book.
"I care not for the Warmaster’s petty ambitions, nor for the merely organic masses who swarm across the worlds of this Imperium; but when his machinations threaten the sanctity of our forges and the advance of our knowledge, he will come to fear the wrath of the Omnissiah’s chosen." -Magos Dominus Avik Nomaan
Games Day Germany
German Games Day is this Sunday, 11th August, at the Gürzenich in Cologne. If you would like to attend but do not yet have a ticket, you will be able to purchase tickets on the day at the venue. We look forward to seeing you there.
Gencon
We will be heading over to Indianapolis on August 15th-18th for Gencon, a huge gaming convention held at the Indiana Convention Center. We can be found at booth 1835.
Horus Heresy: Betrayal Gaming Weekend
We will be attending this event on Saturday 24th August. It takes place at Warhammer World in Nottingham, and tickets can be purchased here. We will be bringing along a wide selection of our Horus Heresy product range, including The Horus Heresy Book One - Betrayal, as well as our Show Only models for 2013.
Games Day UK
As ever, Forge World will be attending UK Games Day on Sunday 29th September at the Birmingham NIA. If you would like to purchase a ticket to this event, click here. Reservation orders can now be placed for UK Games Day - click here to find out how to place a reservation order. Reservation order cut-off for this event is midday, Monday 23rd September.
The new Shadow Spectre rules are interesting. Significant price drop, but also a significant range drop on the Ghostlight. Although the Ghostlight is no longer an all-or-nothing proposition, it's possible to get partial success. As long as you have the Exarch with Prism blaster you need to hit 4 times to get to max S and AP, which shouldn't be too hard with 2 BS5 shots and 5 BS4 ones. The unstackable cover save is a bit of a pain, at least it's not range dependent now.
Moving and new job will be taking my time for the next 3-4 weeks. So... Does anyone want to pitch in for the short term keeping the Newsletters up to date?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Apologies for the delay, folks. It will be like this for the next few weeks at least. Also, next week is GenCon. It's my GF's first time there, so feth you and your need for FW updates and such....
The powerful Castellax pattern is the most common of the widespread Castellan-type Battle-automata in service at the outbreak of the Horus Heresy. A general battle unit developed by the Legio Cybernetica during the Great Crusade from its ancient forebear, it is primarily intended for siege work and shock assaults, and is heavily armed and armoured, with a notoriously aggressive and responsive machine spirit, which has fashioned for it an enviable reputation on the battlefield.
The Castellax, deployed in units of one to five by the Legio Cybernetica, has a standard configuration of bolter and bolt cannon armament, and is able to maintain a punishing barrage of firepower as it advances.
Designed by Will Hayes, the Castellax Battle-automata is a complete multi-part resin kit, and includes a mauler bolt cannon primary weapon and the choice of bolters or flamers as secondary weapons. This model is available to pre-order now and will be despatched from Friday 30th August. Rules for this model can be found in our forthcoming Horus Heresy book.
"Those we had once called ‘brother’ unleashed all the terrors of Old Night upon us. Crawling phosphex infernos and rad storms left only blackened corpses in their wake – until the Castellax strode forth. No rad-phage or flame could stall their advance, and their soulless gaze promised death to any who stood in their path."
-Legionary Shendrak Nal’kor,
Salamanders Legion
The Magos of the Priesthood of Mars are the masters of much of what remains of the vast and potent secrets of the Dark Age of Technology. The Magos Dominus in particular are entrusted with the dread lore of the Legio Cybernetica, including the mastery of Battle-automata for which the Legio is justly feared. Fusions of flesh and machine themselves, the Magos Dominus further armour and arm themselves for the battlefield by integrating their bodies into hovering abeyant platforms, studded with weapons, defensive systems and the means to control and augment their inhuman servants in battle.
The Magos Dominus with Rad-Clenser, designed by Mark Bedford, is a complete resin kit, and includes a Magos Dominus equipped with a volkite serpent, cortex controller, abeyant and the option of a rad/irad clenser. This model is available to pre-order now and will be despatched from Friday 30th August. Rules for this model can be found in our forthcoming Horus Heresy book.
"I care not for the Warmaster’s petty ambitions, nor for the merely organic masses who swarm across the worlds of this Imperium; but when his machinations threaten the sanctity of our forges and the advance of our knowledge, he will come to fear the wrath of the Omnissiah’s chosen."
-Magos Dominus Avik Nomaan
Games Day Germany German Games Day is this Sunday, 11th August, at the Gürzenich in Cologne. If you would like to attend but do not yet have a ticket, you will be able to purchase tickets on the day at the venue. We look forward to seeing you there.
Gencon We will be heading over to Indianapolis on August 15th-18th for Gencon, a huge gaming convention held at the Indiana Convention Center. We can be found at booth 1835.
Horus Heresy: Betrayal Gaming Weekend We will be attending this event on Saturday 24th August. It takes place at Warhammer World in Nottingham, and tickets can be purchased here. We will be bringing along a wide selection of our Horus Heresy product range, including The Horus Heresy Book One - Betrayal, as well as our Show Only models for 2013.
Games Day UK As ever, Forge World will be attending UK Games Day on Sunday 29th September at the Birmingham NIA. If you would like to purchase a ticket to this event, click here. Reservation orders can now be placed for UK Games Day - click here to find out how to place a reservation order. Reservation order cut-off for this event is midday, Monday 23rd September.
Both of these are excellent models and look great in that low-key Forgeworld painting style - I wonder how much longer I can stop myself from building an Mechanicum allied force! Frankly, however much I'd like AdMech to be a regular 40k army, I've much more trust in FW's designers to pull that off than the GW team.
These new models are fantastic! Was going to use the robots as sentinels as soon as I saw the test moulds. Will be picking up 3 of them as soon as the rest of my IG are painted up.
Bad news chaps, I emailed FW to ask about experimental rules for fielding the HH Mechanicum units in 40K, and they currently have no plans to make them playable outside the HH rules :(
Lovely models, particularly like the 'inhuman' look of the magos, fits admech perfectly. Shame about the no regular 40k support though. Suppose thats what counts-as/house rules are for
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, the robot looks like it can actually walk, unlike some other upcoming models *ahem*
Yodhrin wrote: Bad news chaps, I emailed FW to ask about experimental rules for fielding the HH Mechanicum units in 40K, and they currently have no plans to make them playable outside the HH rules :(
That's just stupid. These things certainly exist in 40th millennium as well, so why not give them rules? I really like the models but I don't play HH. Apparently FW doesn't want to sell these.
Yodhrin wrote: Bad news chaps, I emailed FW to ask about experimental rules for fielding the HH Mechanicum units in 40K, and they currently have no plans to make them playable outside the HH rules :(
That's just stupid. These things certainly exist in 40th millennium as well, so why not give them rules? I really like the models but I don't play HH. Apparently FW doesn't want to sell these.
Because they do not necessarily exist in the 40th millennium as well.
Yodhrin wrote: Bad news chaps, I emailed FW to ask about experimental rules for fielding the HH Mechanicum units in 40K, and they currently have no plans to make them playable outside the HH rules :(
That's just stupid. These things certainly exist in 40th millennium as well, so why not give them rules? I really like the models but I don't play HH. Apparently FW doesn't want to sell these.
Because they do not necessarily exist in the 40th millennium as well.
They do though. They're certainly not common, I could see Battle Automata being limited to a 0-1 Elite or Heavy choice for Guard or Marines, but they're about the place somewhere, as are mad looking over-mechanised Techpriests wielding bizarre and horrifying weapons from the Dark Age of Technology.
I mean, it's not a total disaster if they don't bring out 40K rules, a Contemptor with Heavy Bolters, Fist, and Stormbolter will do if there's nothing official(with a techpriest modelled on the base to mollify my fluff sensibilities of course, since Robots get Mindlocked if they wander about alone), it'd just be nice to finally see some proper Mechanicus units in 40K.
Yodhrin wrote: Bad news chaps, I emailed FW to ask about experimental rules for fielding the HH Mechanicum units in 40K, and they currently have no plans to make them playable outside the HH rules :(
Meh. Not a deal breaker. The 30k HH army lists aren't meant to be played against 40k army lists per their interviews in the past with Alan Blighe, et al. My group will play with them regardless of that statement and irregardless of what other groups do...
Oooh, aren't these pretty. I do like how the Admech tech seem to have developed their own aesthetic as opposed to Imperial Guard with more cables. They've got a nice archaic feel to them whilst still capturing the crazed, chaotic nature of the Adeptus Mechanicus. Splendid!
I don't see the interest frankly in either of the units but then again I'm not much of an AdMech fan. The automata reminds me too much of Warmachine (not a fan of steampunk) and the Magos is just a mess of bits with a cowl. To each his own I guess...
anonymous source over at faeit212 wrote:Hello,
just a short note from Cologne's GamesDay, found a tank at the ForgeWorld-booth that didn't appear before (afaik), attached a pic of it.
Also, word was that the Iron Hands Contemptor (model already shown on GD Memphis) would be released soon, estimatedly around GamesDay UK.
GW Website on upcoming UK Games Day wrote:Forge World – Darren's Tau and Blake's Scenery
Over in Forge World, Darren Parrwood has joined the Tau's Third Sphere of Expansion and has been seen working on a new Tau kit. The Greater Good has never looked so good! Meanwhile, Forge World's scenery extraordinaire, Blake Spence, has been hard at work on more new magnificently detailed scenery tiles to help really enhance your battlefields.
You will be able to meet both Darren and Blake at this year's Games Day and talk to them at length about these and some of the other projects they have worked on.
Warhound over at ATT wrote:Well, I say rumours... but these are gospel, as I spoke with Daren Parwood (XV9 sculpting fame) and Alan Bligh... and had the below book in my hands...!
Daren has been given the go-ahead to make another suit!.. I spoke with him some 9 months about some ideas that he has had, to make a suit inbetween the XV-25 and XV-8 sizing... at the time we discussed having a smaller missile laden guy... but this has now been dealt with by the new releases... so, in league with Alan Bligh, they are knocking around the following ideas:
Hyper stealth capability... bascially able to drop in, up front all alone, and be able to get out again.. sort of a 'minime' of the XV-9 MO....
Possible 'big gun'... Daren not sure on whether it will be Ion... or some sort of Ongar Gauntlet type affair...
To be released: unknown, but Daren has already started the sculpt;-)
More importantly.. I was able to read the Taros campaign "redux"... bascially, they has one of only 3 copies in existence at the event, a final copy ready for the printers... As the taros campaign came out before the Apocalypes launch and also, with 6th ed and now the new codex.. they have updated ALL units to be inline with the new release....
key notes that I can remember:
Tetras: H2 TLml, base cost 35, but with Dpod, comes in at ##edit## just under the old points... so a little nerf on the shots there...
XV-9 updated! Full suite of optional upgrades from the codex, including the skyfire ability!!!.. Shas O really- stand alone character that cant join other units at all!!
Full tightening on all the XV-8 AND 9 suits varients... new points, plus 6th ed rules....
Clarifications on all the marker posts and sentries etc.....
Bit of a pain to rebuy the book- but worth it in the end!.. also Talima mentioned that they have retrofitted some fluff to fit with the new canon....
ETA- 2 months....
I hope that this helps some folks out..
cheers
Warhound
(...)
p.s...OH!!... and (as I was showing Daren the LTD ed of the codex- he hadnt had the chance to see any of it!!!)... we discussed the idea of cosmetic additions to kits that he could do... he was very keen to look at Riptide and other suit 'body panel' swaps... additions etc....
No firm ideas (at all!).. but he will be looking at some new stuff.....
The new Castellax is beautiful, but putting the beakie's shoulder pads on the wrong sides made me do a doubletake.
I also need to bite the bullet and buy ten of the FW Mk VI Marines and a whole bunch of jump packs. Turning them into an assault squad would complete the infantry contingent of my Marine detachment. (The rest of my models are Mk VI, so I need them for aesthetic completeness.)
Marthike you would use the most up to date rules for your units so check the index of the GW and IAApoc Books that have been released since the middle of July and any units that you have that are in them you would use the new rules, anything you have that is not in them you would use the last rules for in IA:A2nd if that was the most recent.
The Horus Heresy rages ever-onwards over at Forge World and, hot on the heels of the Primarchs Angron and Fulgrim, Simon Egan will be unveiling the third in this series of mighty warriors of legend at UK Games Day 2013! Simon wouldn't be drawn on the details, so you'll just have to go to Games Day to see it in person (and possibly even add one to your collection!).
Elsewhere in Forge World's design team, Keith Robertson has been working hard on a brand new unit of Death Guard which you will be able to see for the very first time at Games Day.
Hope they do a build up to it like last year showing some of the new stuff each day so I can plan what to buy.
One of the most advanced armoured units in the arsenal of the Great Crusade, the Sicaran Battle Tank was the exclusive province of the Space Marine Legions. The Sicaran utilises component technologies from various STC patterns to create a high-speed ‘destroyer’ tank to complement the more commonplace Predator and Land Raider designs.
The primary armament of the main Sicaran variant is the sophisticated Herakles pattern accelerator autocannon, a superior rapid-firing and highly accurate weapon. It fires shells at far higher velocities than a standard autocannon, enabling it to successfully track and engage swift moving targets and pinpoint vulnerabilities in enemy armour with lethal precision.
The Sicaran Battle Tank, designed by Phil Stutcinskas, is a complete resin kit. This model is available to pre-order now and will be despatched from Friday 30th August.The rules for this model can be found in a forthcoming Horus Heresy Book.
I fell in love with the SoH Reaver squad when they showed it a few weeks back. Now I want to get a couple of packs of them for use as my Chosen in my SoH CSM force.
Why hallo thar man-portable Volkite Culverins, you are going to look lovely on my AdMech Praetorians.
Man, I am going to be so humped financially at the end of September. Magos Dominus, one(to begin with) Castellax, a set of Culverins, Ferrus Mannus, HH:Massacre...and that's just what we know is coming, I hate to think of all the stuff FW are going to reveal between now and when the new book goes on sale.
The Sicaran looks like something I want to buy and build. I also want to see an Adeptus Mechanicus version of Top Gear put it through its paces as it reminds me of a sports car.
Yodhrin wrote: Bad news chaps, I emailed FW to ask about experimental rules for fielding the HH Mechanicum units in 40K, and they currently have no plans to make them playable outside the HH rules :(
That's just stupid. These things certainly exist in 40th millennium as well, so why not give them rules?
I think their point is, not all of it does exist in the current 40k timeline anymore. The Heresy was a different era for a reason and so much of what once was is no longer. From that perspective, I can dig it.
I really like the models but I don't play HH. Apparently FW doesn't want to sell these.
this would be my primary issue with it, I'd love to try running more of these in normal games, though i can understand where they are coming from
I've been pretty vocal about not liking the HH models, and in this case, it has the same goofy looking sponson weapons that I can't stand. All of the sponson weapons in this style look like someone glued 40k bits onto a non 40k tank, and yes, I know that's how they looked XX years ago, but it doesn't look better now.
That being said, damn, the rest of the tank is beautiful. I think this might be my favorite FW tank ever to be frank, up there with the LR Achilles. The lines, the turret, superb.
Also, I think I have some extra LR sponson mounts from my many Warstore mega bits bags, so I could fix them up the way I like. Very tempting.
I think their point is, not all of it does exist in the current 40k timeline anymore. The Heresy was a different era for a reason and so much of what once was is no longer. From that perspective, I can dig it.
The mechanicum still have things like these robots, but the mechanicum is not a playable faction in 40k. They're being introduced in 30k so they may appear at some point in 40k.
Yodhrin wrote: Bad news chaps, I emailed FW to ask about experimental rules for fielding the HH Mechanicum units in 40K, and they currently have no plans to make them playable outside the HH rules :(
That's just stupid. These things certainly exist in 40th millennium as well, so why not give them rules?
I think their point is, not all of it does exist in the current 40k timeline anymore. The Heresy was a different era for a reason and so much of what once was is no longer. From that perspective, I can dig it.
I really like the models but I don't play HH. Apparently FW doesn't want to sell these.
this would be my primary issue with it, I'd love to try running more of these in normal games, though i can understand where they are coming from
Thing is though, they do exist in 40K. I can buy them being rarer, but I don't see why it's more likely in the 40K-era that you'd see a ten thousand year-old and no longer manufactured battletank which doesn't even fit the 40K-era strategy and tactics of the army that can field it, than you'd see one of the primary military formations of one of the largest factions in the background, but that's what's happening with the rules, since SMs are getting their Typhons and Spartans and Fellblades and Glaives.
I'll still be buying at least one, since you could possibly make a tolerable Legio Cybernetica allied detachment using the new Space Marine rules(MotF plus a pair of Contemptors from Elite and HS, plus the Iron Hands Chapter Tactics, then a unit of Scouts as Skitarii, maybe a Techmarine or two to beef up the Scouts if they follow the DA 'dex and no longer take slots), but there's really no way FW can pretend they're holding back Mechanicus experimental rules out of some reverence for the fluff when they're giving out Heresy-era superheavies and Land Raider variants like candy.
Ah, Forgeworld, why do you taunt me so? My big FW order just arrived yesterday, and already they're announcing more models I want...
But, I expect that. Always seems to happen every time I make a FW order. At least we should be getting the next HH book, and possibly the revised IA2 before the end of the year.
Yea, far as I know, robots etc still exist in the 40th millenium. They're just exclusive to the Mechanicum instead of being attached to any allied force. Which is why they'd make a lot more sense to have experimental rules than these HH era Space Marine tanks that are getting them...
One of the most advanced armoured units in the arsenal of the Great Crusade, the Sicaran Battle Tank was the exclusive province of the Space Marine Legions. The Sicaran utilises component technologies from various STC patterns to create a high-speed ‘destroyer’ tank to complement the more commonplace Predator and Land Raider designs.
The primary armament of the main Sicaran variant is the sophisticated Herakles pattern accelerator autocannon, a superior rapid-firing and highly accurate weapon. It fires shells at far higher velocities than a standard autocannon, enabling it to successfully track and engage swift moving targets and pinpoint vulnerabilities in enemy armour with lethal precision.
The Sicaran Battle Tank, designed by Phil Stutcinskas, is a complete resin kit. This model is available to pre-order now and will be despatched from Friday 30th August.
"With such weapons as these at the forefront of our Great Crusade, we shall lay low the xenos, strike down ignorance and cast the shadows of Old Night beyond the borders of the galaxy. With reason and enlightenment comes unification and glory, and a thousand times a thousand years of prosperity, all in the name of the Emperor of Mankind."
Iterator Jhorvus Mhal, during the Thirteen Realms Campaign
Legion Heavy Flamers
The heaviest of the portable Legiones Astartes ‘Volkite’ weapons, the Volkite Culverin is a thermal ray weapon of ancient provenance. Its beam has a devastating effect on organic matter, explosively burning flesh into ash and jetting fire.
Heavy Flamers are often deployed by Legiones Astartes units either as area denial weapons or to force enemy infantry from fortified positions. A variety of different chemicals have been used as fuel for these fearsome weapons, all of them designed to ignite on contact with the atmosphere. The Volkite Culverin and Heavy Flamers sets each contain ten detailed resin weapons which can be combined with our resin Space Marine Legion Infantry, such as the Legiones Astartes Mk II, Mk III and Mk IV armour sets, to construct Legion Heavy Support Squads.
Designed by Will Hayes, these sets are available to pre-order now and will be despatched from Friday 30th August.
What's with the 40k tanks being backwards? The part that would work well to go over obstacles is always on the rear and the part that would get stuck is on the front. If the front and back of your tracks are different heights, the high part goes on the front:
frozenwastes wrote: What's with the 40k tanks being backwards? The part that would work well to go over obstacles is always on the rear and the part that would get stuck is on the front. If the front and back of your tracks are different heights, the high part goes on the front:
In the grim darkness of the far future battlefields are backwards too?
The original tank designs emulated the MK V, but presumably the designers didn't want it to be a straight rip, thus reversed the tracks. Following this were designers who put rule of cool first, or just didn't know a damn about how tracked vehicles work so the design stuck I guess. The back to front tracks are the mainstray of the marine forces, but don't the Forgeworld Imperial Guard vehicles use the proper track make up?
Oddly Ork vehicles have tracks that are the correct way around I think. Though this could perhaps be put down to the Imperium not knowing that their designs are wrong (or the tech's so advanced that it isn't...) whereas the Orks have an innate knowledge about which way things should go around. GW logic. =P
ergotoxin wrote: All IG vehicles have tracks the right way, only SM vehicles have them reversed.
They must be giving themselves some sort of handicap I guess, otherwise it wouldn't be fair.
Still, I do like the model for the new tank. I'm surprised it's so much cheaper than the Fellblade too. I guess the Baneblade sprues for that make up the bulk of the cost.
The tracks on the Sicarian aren't that bad. The front is relatively low, but then again, it's the same way with modern tanks like the Abrams. It's got all the rough-terrain capability a "modern" vehicle needs assuming it's not fighting in WW1 trenches, so in that respect it's a fine pre-heresy design, in some ways more advanced than the "current" Imperial tech level.
Agamemnon2 wrote: The tracks on the Sicarian aren't that bad. The front is relatively low, but then again, it's the same way with modern tanks like the Abrams. It's got all the rough-terrain capability a "modern" vehicle needs assuming it's not fighting in WW1 trenches, so in that respect it's a fine pre-heresy design, in some ways more advanced than the "current" Imperial tech level.
Until it tries to go up a moderately steep hill and rolls over backwards because the center of gravity is only marginally in front of the pivot point where the rear of the track leaves the ground. Engines, turrets and large weapons are very heavy and they are all at the extreme rear of the tank! Its not going to take much of a berm or hill to tip it over backwards.
Meanwhile back in fantasy land, if I were to get one of these I would turn it around by reversing the turret, putting viewports and hatches in the current rear and moving the engine well forward in the current front. CG would still be a problem but not quite as bad.
If people are so massively against the reversed design of the Sicaran Tank, then it is quite easy to simply reverse the guns and voilà, the tank you always wanted. Now you can drive towards the enemy with your exhaust and engine block exposed like you always wanted
My biggest issue is the gap between the front track guard and the track itself (you'll pop one of the track hinges eventually when the guard doesn't give when it does inevitably catch), but eh.
Nonetheless an awesome looking vehicle (and in an iron warrior scheme no less!).
Forge World July Best Sellers 2013 10.) Legion MK IV Power Weapons
9.) Vendetta Conversion Kit
8.) Contemptor Pattern Close Combat Arm (fist)
7.) Imperial Armour Volume Twelve The Fall of Orpheus
6.) Legion MK IV Maximus Armour
5.) Imperial Armour Volume Three Second Edition: The Taros Campaign
4.) Contemptor Pattern Kheres Assault Cannon
3.) Fulgrim the Illuminator Primarch of the Emperor's Children
2.) Emperor's Children Palatine Blades Squad
1.) Legion Praetors
Maybe a bit of news. I sent an email to Forgeworld asking if they would update the Badab War characters after the new C;SM release, and also asked if they planned to release the alternative Fulgrim model.
Their response:
The rules for the Badab War will be updated at some point but as to when is unknown at the moment.
As for the alternative Fulgrim that was something that one of our designs did that would not be made for general sale. He just brought it from his own personal collection of modified figures.
Obviously, no confirmation about the C:SM release, but at least I know my Red Scorpions won't be forgotten.
Tannhauser42 wrote: Maybe a bit of news. I sent an email to Forgeworld asking if they would update the Badab War characters after the new C;SM release, and also asked if they planned to release the alternative Fulgrim model.
Their response:
The rules for the Badab War will be updated at some point but as to when is unknown at the moment.
As for the alternative Fulgrim that was something that one of our designs did that would not be made for general sale. He just brought it from his own personal collection of modified figures.
Obviously, no confirmation about the C:SM release, but at least I know my Red Scorpions won't be forgotten.
If there is enough interest/demand for the alternate Fulgrim by people calling/emailing about it, they may release it. That happened for a couple of the Badab characters, which were personal projects that drew interest and thus were released.
Tannhauser42 wrote: Maybe a bit of news. I sent an email to Forgeworld asking if they would update the Badab War characters after the new C;SM release, and also asked if they planned to release the alternative Fulgrim model.
Their response:
The rules for the Badab War will be updated at some point but as to when is unknown at the moment.
As for the alternative Fulgrim that was something that one of our designs did that would not be made for general sale. He just brought it from his own personal collection of modified figures.
Obviously, no confirmation about the C:SM release, but at least I know my Red Scorpions won't be forgotten.
Really though, that statement is so vague it could mean nothing more than "at some unspecified point in the future, we will do a 2nd Edition of the Badab War books", which if they continue doing them in order would be a couple of years hence.
Ehsteve wrote: If people are so massively against the reversed design of the Sicaran Tank, then it is quite easy to simply reverse the guns and voilà, the tank you always wanted. Now you can drive towards the enemy with your exhaust and engine block exposed like you always wanted
The land raider would really benefit from this.
It would look more imposing from the front.
The assault ramp would be bigger and look like the terminators could actually charge out of it without banging their heads.
Easier for the tank to go up and over steep obstacles.
Agamemnon2 wrote: The tracks on the Sicarian aren't that bad. The front is relatively low, but then again, it's the same way with modern tanks like the Abrams. It's got all the rough-terrain capability a "modern" vehicle needs assuming it's not fighting in WW1 trenches, so in that respect it's a fine pre-heresy design, in some ways more advanced than the "current" Imperial tech level.
Until it tries to go up a moderately steep hill and rolls over backwards because the center of gravity is only marginally in front of the pivot point where the rear of the track leaves the ground. Engines, turrets and large weapons are very heavy and they are all at the extreme rear of the tank! Its not going to take much of a berm or hill to tip it over backwards.
I hope someone who buys a Sicaran will conduct a simple experiment, then. All they have to do is place the tank on a level surface, then slowly raise one end of it until the tank "flips over backwards" as you say. Once that threshold is reached, the experimenter should record the angle at which the platform is. That is the only way to judge the physical qualities of the design using the real object, though imperfect (as a resin model has uniform density. and disproportional weight). A better way would be to construct a 3D model with weight distribution more closer to something that would actually exist in a fictional universe. The problems with this latter idea are so obvious that I won't enumerate them here.
TLDR: Prove it.
I admit that the basic design lacks courage, though. A more ambitious designer would have given us something far closer to an Abrams still, with a low center of gravity and other design characteristics of a modern tank instead of the trench-crossing behemoths "40k" vehicles have always been. The basic paradigm of land war in the 40k universe has always been rather infantile, equal parts WW1 and superhero comics.
Not sure if this is the right place, but according to natfka GW are redesigning their website and it'll include FW. Not sure what this will mean for FW shipping costs or if GW will start interfering with FW (I doubt the last one but who knows with GW especially with the talk about bringing the success of the HH over to GW)
New GW-Site!
Games Workshop will launch a new Internet-Site in April 2014. The new Site will bring back Hobby content and other stuff. The Online shop will include Black Library Products and at the end of the year 2014 Forgeworld. The success of Horus Heresy moved GW to this.
Not sure why else it would take 8 months to roll out their new website.
A total overhaul of a website isn't something that you just press a button, and it happens. That seems like a fairly normal timetable for an established retail site that wants to ensure that it has 100% functionality at launch. Plus, it sounds like they are going to include non-salesy/product content. So they have to produce all of that content too.
Veteran Sergeant wrote: Plus, it sounds like they are going to include non-salesy/product content. So they have to produce all of that content too.
Actually, they don't have to produce much at all. They would just need to repost all the stuff that "disappeared" from their website in the last few years. They have decades of hobby material already at their fingertips that they can easily use.
gianlucafiorentini123 wrote: Not sure if this is the right place, but according to natfka GW are redesigning their website and it'll include FW. Not sure what this will mean for FW shipping costs or if GW will start interfering with FW (I doubt the last one but who knows with GW especially with the talk about bringing the success of the HH over to GW)
New GW-Site!
Games Workshop will launch a new Internet-Site in April 2014. The new Site will bring back Hobby content and other stuff. The Online shop will include Black Library Products and at the end of the year 2014 Forgeworld. The success of Horus Heresy moved GW to this.
Great news! Now FW products can be integrated into the annual price increase and the community will no longer be split between those who are allowed to pay more and those who have to settle for being neglected and buying cheap models.
gianlucafiorentini123 wrote: Not sure if this is the right place, but according to natfka GW are redesigning their website and it'll include FW. Not sure what this will mean for FW shipping costs or if GW will start interfering with FW (I doubt the last one but who knows with GW especially with the talk about bringing the success of the HH over to GW)
New GW-Site!
Games Workshop will launch a new Internet-Site in April 2014. The new Site will bring back Hobby content and other stuff. The Online shop will include Black Library Products and at the end of the year 2014 Forgeworld. The success of Horus Heresy moved GW to this.
Great news! Now FW products can be integrated into the annual price increase and the community will no longer be split between those who are allowed to pay more and those who have to settle for being neglected and buying cheap models.
haha they probably rejected this idea earlier in the year. Now they've noticed it's making money they sponge off FW success to subsidise their falling profit margins.
gianlucafiorentini123 wrote: Not sure if this is the right place, but according to natfka GW are redesigning their website and it'll include FW. Not sure what this will mean for FW shipping costs or if GW will start interfering with FW (I doubt the last one but who knows with GW especially with the talk about bringing the success of the HH over to GW)
New GW-Site!
Games Workshop will launch a new Internet-Site in April 2014. The new Site will bring back Hobby content and other stuff. The Online shop will include Black Library Products and at the end of the year 2014 Forgeworld. The success of Horus Heresy moved GW to this.
Great news! Now FW products can be integrated into the annual price increase and the community will no longer be split between those who are allowed to pay more and those who have to settle for being neglected and buying cheap models.
haha they probably rejected this idea earlier in the year. Now they've noticed it's making money they sponge off FW success to subsidise their falling profit margins.
They don't have falling profit margins, so...bad joke denied.
Also, people who can't afford the hobby aren't neglected. They just can't afford the hobby. If GW were to market it to the people who are terrible with their money but always blame someone/something else for it (re: almost everybody), they'd have zero profit margin. It's a niche market, and the Wal Mart approach will never work in this industry. All of the good table top companies are expensive. That's not because they are greedy, but because they will never produce enough of the product to profit through sheer volume. Even if GW lowered the price of their rule book to $30, and a box of Space Marines to $25, they'd see minimal gains in overall player growth; meanwhile they'd lose a ton of money. The price tags aren't what draw new players into table top games. It's the cool minis and paint jobs, cool stories, and fun as hell game play. If low prices were the key, Privateer and GW would have long since died to all the junky games that debut at every Con in the country.
brassangel wrote: Also, people who can't afford the hobby aren't neglected. They just can't afford the hobby.
You completely missed the joke there. Go back and try again?
Even if GW lowered the price of their rule book to $30, and a box of Space Marines to $25, they'd see minimal gains in overall player growth; meanwhile they'd lose a ton of money.
Which is only true because GW is badly managed to the point that their profit margins are much smaller than they should be, and completely incapable of marketing a game to take advantage of low startup costs for a new player.
The price tags aren't what draw new players into table top games.
No, but high prices certainly do a good job of convincing potential new customers that it's a cool game but too expensive.
Sales have been falling for a while now so it's not much of a stretch to assume all the cost cutting they have been bragging about is the only thing driving the increased revenue.
I'm not totally sold on Erebus, the giant book-stick just looks daft, and he looks half way through doing a reach and grab while singing in the Word Bearers karaoke competition.
I'm really liking Kor Phaeron though, perhaps because he hasn't been buried in a load of unnecessary detail yet, the face is just right. I hope there is a lot more restraint shown with him as a Forge World model than if he were a GW sculpt (who would likely have spikes emerging from his spikes)
Well the website news is certainly disconcerting. I was looking forward to doing a legion army and now the prices will inevitably double and the bundles will save you nothing and the news letters will turn to garbage. Shame really, GW had a good thing going with FW, too bad Kirby needs more boats and sportscars painted with solid gold.
Mr.Church13 wrote: Well the website news is certainly disconcerting. I was looking forward to doing a legion army and now the prices will inevitably double and the bundles will save you nothing and the news letters will turn to garbage. Shame really, GW had a good thing going with FW, too bad Kirby needs more boats and sportscars painted with solid gold.
That Erebus one not already leaked, or does it just resemble an art piece so much?
Thankfully Erebus isn't standing atop a pile of books like the GW Dark Apostle. Though its hardly practical, I suspect the Dark Apostle totes that stack of heathen texts with him just to strike that pose.
He's presumably refering to a previous post about GW rolling FW into its main website. However any statement about price rises and the like aren't sourced I think...
I don't know the source or details. Could be that the GW site lets you order FW stuff and that they will still have the FW website as well (similar to the way they used to do their books).
And just because they share a website doesn't mean that they are becoming one company. "GW - the website" could simply become a distributer for "FW - the business".
d-usa wrote: I don't know the source or details. Could be that the GW site lets you order FW stuff and that they will still have the FW website as well (similar to the way they used to do their books).
And just because they share a website doesn't mean that they are becoming one company. "GW - the website" could simply become a distributer for "FW - the business".
Although this might be OT anyway...
If the GW site lets you order FW stuff through their site--it might mean allowing for "in store ordering" for FW stuff.
Here we have a computer typically at the back of a store for FW orders. However I really don't see the point in using it as well you aren't actually saving any cash on the (ridiculous) shipping fees.
Well at one store I know of there is a seperate computer than the one the staff user for the till, a touchscreen mounted on the wall. It hotlinks only to GW, FW and BL, and you can order away there. You still don't have the ship to store option like on the GW main section but if you give the store address they are more than happy to hold it for you.
Those are looking great. Hopefully the finished Kor Phaeron is an improvement through added detail as opposed to the end result of some of the recent releases.
They had to release these as I start a Word Bearers force too, the dark gods truly have a hold on my wallet now.
Deadshot wrote: Well at one store I know of there is a seperate computer than the one the staff user for the till, a touchscreen mounted on the wall. It hotlinks only to GW, FW and BL, and you can order away there. You still don't have the ship to store option like on the GW main section but if you give the store address they are more than happy to hold it for you.
Yes, which is entirely pointless as shipping to the store doesn't cut out the shipping fees. Rather you could just have the order arrive at your door instead of having to commute to GW to pick it up. At least that's the odd situation at my GW, which perplexes me greatly.
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