Cryptek of Awesome wrote:

 PotentiallyLethal wrote:
Played a 5-way Commander game last night... 2 hours later

Was a fun game, now just to put my own deck together

We got big into Elder Dragon Highlander/Commander and it was fun for awhile actually until Wizard's put out the pre-built commander decks.

Had a pretty fun deck that stole creatures from everyone and they make that common land that just destroys the entire deck. Derp - ok I guess they really don't like Control Magic. :p

Speaking of donkey-cave control decks, I played with this just last night and almost won but was ruined by an oversight on my part. No stealing creatures for me, just discarding and making sure I get what I want. Strangely enough, playing Rhystic Study as early as I did didn't feel that dickish because I didn't draw a lot of stuff that I was looking for and one of the players actually wanted me to deck myself out this way because he himself played mill. I understand that it loses it's effectiveness later in the game once people have enough lands out too.

 Cryptek of Awesome wrote:

 PotentiallyLethal wrote:
Played a 5-way Commander game last night... 2 hours later

Was a fun game, now just to put my own deck together

We got big into Elder Dragon Highlander/Commander and it was fun for awhile actually until Wizard's put out the pre-built commander decks.

Had a pretty fun deck that stole creatures from everyone and they make that common land that just destroys the entire deck. Derp - ok I guess they really don't like Control Magic. :p

Was thinking of doing something like that in black with Chainer as the commander, but at the moment building a deck based around Ob Nixilis, Unshackled as every opponent seems to be searching their deck for something

Please note the last text in the box.

Saw teferi, I was so estatic! Need another planeswalker/commander? Why not Urza or Sierra?

Rumor has it as:

White: Serra
Red: Jaya Ballard
Black: Leshrac
Green: ????

That panther planeswalker? Lord something or other.

The Ghoulcaller is a real wanna be for my Zombie/Graveyard recursion commander deck that I'm building

Looking forward to seeing Leshrac as a Planeswalker

Teferi actually doesn't seem very practical as a General. If he is you're general, that means you're playing mono-blue and you're stuck with him, Jace, Tamiyo, Tezzeret, and Karn. Not a whole lot of use out of his ultimate.

 Wilytank wrote:
Teferi actually doesn't seem very practical as a General. If he is you're general, that means you're playing mono-blue and you're stuck with him, Jace, Tamiyo, Tezzeret, and Karn. Not a whole lot of use out of his ultimate.

Dunno if you really need much other than those;

It hasn't been ruled yet, but you may be able to use his ability during EVERY players turn.

In a Stasis/Stax deck, could mean you +1 on your turn, -1 on someone elses turn (Untapping at least one land to pay for stasis), +1 on the third persons turn, -1 on the last players turn (Untapping more things while everyone else remains tapped).

If that is the case, he'll be a bonkers Stasis Commander. Not that he'll be overpowered due to actually being able to attack him directly.

Alrighty......recently, i purchased the b/r m15 intro pack, (just for the indulgent tormentor), but when i opened the pack, it was the red/blue intro deck! in the red/black intro/deck's packaging! And the indulgent tormentor was in the front! odd packaging error, but the REAL 'magic' started to happen when i pulled a Nissa, worldwaker out of the booster pack!!!! So maybe the packaging error led to my lucky pull!!!! Has anyone else had a packaging error like this??

My friend did that once with an M15 intro pack. The entire intro deck minus the face card was miscut. He got Ajani out of one of the boosters though.

Hey everyone, i was just curious on what might be the better idea at the moment..... now that post rotation will be coming shortly, or has already happened, i will have to update mt standard deck.... which might take a while, or even make a new standard deck altogether! BUT, that is not really the reason for this post..... The real reason, is that i was curious on what i should use, in the time i am re-building, and building a new standard deck, as a standard deck, that will be a strong deck? I was thinking maybe use a born of the gods or journey into nyx event deck (maybe add a few cards though)? Or combine the 2 clash pack decks into the deck people have been talking of? Just curious! Also, does anyone have any good budget lists for mono green devotion? or any good post rotation decks? I found some on mtg salvation, but im still looking around

Hi orkkiller21 i guess the first question would be to ask what sort of deck are you running at the moment. as you may have some cards that are still going to be in standard after rotation that can still be used in a new deck.

the second one would what deck are you looking to run im very into green to the point where all my decks run green as the main colour.

i suppose thats all i really need to know for starters but as a example of the deck i run at the moment and im not saying its game breaking as there is always a deck that will beat a deck that is made. but a fair few of the cards for this deck or substitutes can be found in the m15 clash pack and the rest are all fairly low cost rares with a few mythics thrown in

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/post-rotation-ug-hydras/

Well, right now, i run a mono black devotion deck, a izzet spellheart chimera deck, and a u/g flash deck ( i netdecked this one to try it out), which i have only tried once, since i wanted to find a playstyle for it, before i tried it at another FNM, cuz the first time, it didnt go so well for that deck.... ( these are my main decks for standard) Otherwise for pauper, i run a nivixfiend deck, and i have some other decks i randomly throw together to see how well the idea would work.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, right now, i run a mono black devotion deck , a izzet spellheart chimera deck, and a u/g flash deck ( i netdecked this one to try it out), which i have only tried once, since i wanted to find a playstyle for it, before i tried it at another FNM, cuz the first time, it didnt go so well for that deck.... ( these are my main decks for standard) Otherwise for pauper, i run a nivixfiend deck, and i have some other decks i randomly throw together to see how well the idea would work. Otherwise, I would LOVE to put my boon satyrs and temples of mystery's to good use, maybe create a u/g deck with nissa? (that would be fun to do), or, I had a b/w constellation idea that i would also like to toss together, BUt, my main plan, is to use my temples of mystery, nissa, and a few other cards i have in mind as well. I have found the mono green devotion decklist on the starcity games website, but i am REALLY gonna have to wait on buying the playsets of 4 for almost all the creatures, since my monetary situation is up and down currently. Otherwise, i am going to just order the sets off of amazon, once i get to college, since i wont have my parents there to tell me not to order more cards ( i have TONS). Otherwise, as i said before, would be to make a u/g deck that will destroy my opponents (like my mono black devotion deck), maybe even , and u/g seems like my best bet at the moment, a mono-green devotion, or even a gruul midrange deck i found which i will post below, otherwise g/w aggro............ i have way too many ideas......

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_monogreen_devotion_w.html





MIDRANGE GRUUL
4 Temple of Abandon
12 Forest
8 Mountain

4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Voyaging Satyr
4 Polis Crusher
4 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Ember Swallower
4 Arbor Colossus

4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet






Automatically Appended Next Post:
(ignore the top post with the american flag by it, i accidentally posted it before i was done typing)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(Ignore the top post with the american flag by it, i accidentally posted it before i was done typing)

I managed to to play a conspiracy draft on Saturday at Gencon, and I have to say- it was awesome. One of the best drafts I've ever done. I went green/black after grabbing the mythic Hydra, Pernicious Deed, and Spiritmonger. I lost, but I can't say I didn't enjoy myself.

So two new keywords for Khans have been spoiled:

Raid: Whenever ~~~ enters the battlefield, if you attacked with a creature this turn, ____ happens. Keyword of the RWB wedge.

Prowess: Whenever you cast a Non-Creature spell, This creature gains +1/+1 until end of turn. Keyword of Murica.

Well this was to be expected.



It's cool to have wedge counterparts to Alara's triple lands.

So major changes coming to Magic, just so everyone is aware:

Blocks will now be 2 sets instead of three (So Return to Ravnica + Gatecrash instead of RtR + Gatecrash + Dragon's Maze) We know not if they are increasing card number per block or leaving it as is.

Core Sets are going the way of the Dinosaurs; New players have to deal with odd mechanics like Convoke, but Old players have to deal with things being dumbed down. No one was really happy with Core Sets according to data.

Three blocks in Standard at any one time, instead of two + Core.

Cards are now rotated faster, being in standard for 18 months instead of 24.

Will post link asap.

So are they slowing down releases for the first time? I've been ou of the loop since Theros. The new set every quarter just didn't feel like something I wanted to bother keeping up with. A set every six months on the other hand might pull me into standard.

So its the same schedule, every 6 months. Only now its 2 2-set blocks. No more core set. And standard rotates every 6 months and each pack being good for 18 months

Ugh, what garbage. So nothing really changes other than trimming down what's legal in standard at any time.

Hopefully, the cards will get better as a result of them doing away with their smaller releases. Dragon's Maze could have never existed and the only thing people would be missing is Voice of Resurgence. Same thing with Born of the Gods with Courser of Kruphix and Brimaz.

well its semi good news, 2 blocks now. so if you say hated theros well its only 6 months versus a year to a new block. It also lets them do more planes, he specifically mentioned how people have loved the return to blank blocks so I figure we'll see one new plane, one old plane.

I'm excited and optimistic, may haps we'll actually get a return to kamigawa

If we do return to Kami, I really hope they keep 90% of the mechanics and do them right. I really want to see more Arcane spells.

I've heard that wizards want to do more agressive reprints (Think Fetches or Lily of the Veil), but haven't actually heard anything official on that or not.

Kamigawa was great, but I really want to see shadowmoor/eventide again.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Kamigawa was great, but I really want to see shadowmoor/eventide again.

I hated the shadowmoor block novels. I understand what they were going for, but they turned the storyline they had going into garbage.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Kamigawa was great, but I really want to see shadowmoor/eventide again.

I hated the shadowmoor block novels. I understand what they were going for, but they turned the storyline they had going into garbage.

Never read the books, I just liked the cards. My first deck was from there. It has a really interesting feel, and a lot of great cards (as well as the first instance to my knowledge of hexproof in all but name).

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Kamigawa was great, but I really want to see shadowmoor/eventide again.

I hated the shadowmoor block novels. I understand what they were going for, but they turned the storyline they had going into garbage.

Never read the books, I just liked the cards. My first deck was from there. It has a really interesting feel, and a lot of great cards (as well as the first instance to my knowledge of hexproof in all but name).

Oh don't get me wrong- I loved the set much more than Lorwyn. It's definitely fun. Hybrid mana was so awesome to me when it debuted.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Kamigawa was great, but I really want to see shadowmoor/eventide again.

I hated the shadowmoor block novels. I understand what they were going for, but they turned the storyline they had going into garbage.

Never read the books, I just liked the cards. My first deck was from there. It has a really interesting feel, and a lot of great cards (as well as the first instance to my knowledge of hexproof in all but name).

Actually, hexproof was around for a while before SHA/EVE block, Most Famous instance? Troll Ascetic. lol Until it got a name, everyone called it "troll shroud"

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Kamigawa was great, but I really want to see shadowmoor/eventide again.

I hated the shadowmoor block novels. I understand what they were going for, but they turned the storyline they had going into garbage.

Never read the books, I just liked the cards. My first deck was from there. It has a really interesting feel, and a lot of great cards (as well as the first instance to my knowledge of hexproof in all but name).

Actually, hexproof was around for a while before SHA/EVE block, Most Famous instance? Troll Ascetic. lol Until it got a name, everyone called it "troll shroud"

Well I did say to my knowledge.

I honestly want Return to Return to Ravnica.

Love Ravnica.

Anyone play on cockatrice?

bartender wrote:
Anyone play on cockatrice?

Used to. Or maybe it was Apprentice. I can't remember. It's been a while either way, and I've mostly moved away from Magic the past few years.

 Slarg232 wrote:
If we do return to Kami, I really hope they keep 90% of the mechanics and do them right. I really want to see more Arcane spells.

I've heard that wizards want to do more agressive reprints (Think Fetches or Lily of the Veil), but haven't actually heard anything official on that or not.

I hope they re-do some of the kitsune cards at least! Why were some of the cooler cards so bad! (My lightsaber kitsune!)

I would love a redoing though, I loved the spirit theme, along with ogre/oni demon synergy cards, though I'd love to run a kitsune tribal because there's just something about them I'd love to use (Specially Rune-Tail and Eight and a half tails!)

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:
If we do return to Kami, I really hope they keep 90% of the mechanics and do them right. I really want to see more Arcane spells.

I've heard that wizards want to do more agressive reprints (Think Fetches or Lily of the Veil), but haven't actually heard anything official on that or not.

I hope they re-do some of the kitsune cards at least! Why were some of the cooler cards so bad! (My lightsaber kitsune!)

I would love a redoing though, I loved the spirit theme, along with ogre/oni demon synergy cards, though I'd love to run a kitsune tribal because there's just something about them I'd love to use (Specially Rune-Tail and Eight and a half tails!)

Don't forget Pious Kitsune! I had a rash of building castle type decks because of those cards. I loved the Moonfolk and Kitsune both. Unfortunately I doubt they'll ever go back to that plane.

Actually, from what I'm seeing (Which is a small sample size, to be fair) Kamigawa is one of the more requested planes for a Return to.

However, it doesn't hold a candle to the requests for Dominari.

 Slarg232 wrote:
Actually, from what I'm seeing (Which is a small sample size, to be fair) Kamigawa is one of the more requested planes for a Return to.

However, it doesn't hold a candle to the requests for Dominari.

Time Spiral 2.0. Heck yeah.

Kami was the first block I really started to play in. Also we need more ninjas/samurais they rocked so hard. They just need to make arcane/spirit and oni/ogre better. Allot of people figure that it was the week was of the block that was its downfall.

Nevermind it came out between two amazing sets.

A big problem was actually arcane- it's very block inclusive. Either you're building a kamigawa block arcane deck, or you're playing some else. It was not something that you could add to a deck with any success. It was either Arcane or not. Period. And it wasn't that great tbh.

To be fair, it's not actually a bad thing, technically. Arcane is a very powerful keyword that has a ton of potential.

The problem was is that they overcosted the normal modes so that non-arcane decks couldn't use them. If Glacial Ray had just been Shock with Splice (As magma Spray/Pillar of Flame is Shock with Exile) it would have been much better overall.

I heard Time Spiral 2.0 and got excited, hahaha. A return to Kamigawa would be fun. Probably get me to part with more money in my wallet.

Allied Fetches are confirmed for reprint with Khans of Tarkir!

 Slarg232 wrote:
Allied Fetches are confirmed for reprint with Khans of Tarkir!

Gosh dangit. Now I have to buy a case...

I'm buying one, and splitting one with my brother and another one with a friend of mine.

Fetch lands aren't very nice to use, they slow the game down and makes things dull as people constantly search their deck for this land and that, and everyone will be doing it. Further, it will be a total bitch to get these for standard because the Modern players will be fighting for them. Fetchlands are very valuable in Modern and lead to various combos, I'm sure it's one reason Deathrite Shaman was banned recently.

To be honest, they're too good at thinning out your deck and have a mechanic that doesn't lend itself well to an enjoyable game, it encourages filibustering and makes the game dull. Far from reprinting them, I think them being banned in Modern might have been preferable now that Shocklands have been reprinted and are readily available. I'm not greatly looking forward to having to get at least a couple of each one just to play standard for the next couple of years.

Wizards shouldn't have reprinted them even if they are 'powerful'. But that's what happens when Magic players whinge endlessly, eventually they get pandered to.

At least they'll have more practical use in Modern. I know some people who play Pod and run Misty Rainforest even though they don't run blue. They'll just use it to yank out their Temple Gardens. So why run that when you can now run Windswept Heath?

One of my friends did point out that Onslaught Polluted Delta dropped $40 in a night. And the pre-order prices on SCG for the Khans copies of that are $25 while the others are sitting at $20.

...or if you just want basic lands, remember that Evolving Wilds is legal in standard again.

But on another note, if they re-printed Damnation, I'd be a happy camper.

Evolving Wilds brings lands in tapped, and therein lies the difference.

Also, the power of Fetches is more of the fact that they say "Forest" or similar, allowing you to bring in Duel Lands (Like say, a Forest Island).


So Sidisi is my favorite of the Khans revealed so far. a 4 mana 3/3 that makes a 2/2 Zombie whenever One or More dudes are put into your graveyard from you're library at a time. Already figured out an Infinite with her, it's quite sexy.

I like how all the things spoiled so far are telling me to go back to standard playing W/B. Even for things aside from in game competitiveness. I'll being using this flavor text from the card Utter End outside MTG now: "I came seeking a challenge. All I found was you."

So, pre-release packs are split by clan colors. Who's choosing which?

Sultai for me <3 love B/U/G

I don't believe there are enough Modern players to make these fetches any harder to get than the ones in Zendikar were when it Was in standard. When the set rotates out of standard perhaps, but they'll stay in the $10-20 range for the foreseeable future.

Sultai for me as well; the chance to get a Sidiri for "Free", and potentially a Foil one is too much to pass up.

Mind you, I'll probably play all five events, but if I only had to choose one.

 Slarg232 wrote:
Sultai for me as well; the chance to get a Sidiri for "Free"

Sydri, Galvonic Genius? What's she doing in Tarkir?

Sidisi Wrong second-to-last-letter



Just dropped $170 on a Modern Deck, and $200 on Khans pre-orders. I'm broke XD

I'm starting to see a few things in interested in here. There are a lot if duds though. It also seems a little uninspired in that three colour cards are rather in the functional style of three colour things in Alara.

It's also a little uninspired in that it's yet another multicolour block. It seems every other block is a multicolour one these days.
I'm not the greatest fan of the morph mechanic, either. On the plus side, the artwork so far is outstanding,and there are a couple of really interesting cards there

It's actually not a multicolor block, just a set.

So Khans will be Tri, and then Fate Reforged and Dragons will be back to Mono Color.

Reason being that the block involves time travel. Khans is present Day. Fate Reforged is Past, Dragons is Alternate Present.

Alrighty.....nobody else that i have asked has been too helful with this question, but i thought i might as well bring it up here. With the mono green devotion deck, ( i am 3/4ths of the way done with mine, the rest of the singles are in the mail), but i was curious if maybe i should use the hornet nest over the queen because the nest can produce more tokens, so if it takes like 10 damage, i can put out 10 hornet tokens with flying, and deathtouch, but the queen only gives me 4 tokens, when it comes into play, hmmmmmm........ but then again, the queen does get the tokens right off the bat, while the nest has to sit and wait to get dealt damage, well, if anyone knows, do tell, i will try out both creatures to see how well it goes, thanks!

 orkkiller21 wrote:
Alrighty.....nobody else that i have asked has been too helful with this question, but i thought i might as well bring it up here. With the mono green devotion deck, ( i am 3/4ths of the way done with mine, the rest of the singles are in the mail), but i was curious if maybe i should use the hornet nest over the queen because the nest can produce more tokens, so if it takes like 10 damage, i can put out 10 hornet tokens with flying, and deathtouch, but the queen only gives me 4 tokens, when it comes into play, hmmmmmm........ but then again, the queen does get the tokens right off the bat, while the nest has to sit and wait to get dealt damage, well, if anyone knows, do tell, i will try out both creatures to see how well it goes, thanks!

It depends on your deck really. Post your list and people can give you a more informed opinion.

The hornet nest is a lot cheaper though. But be ready to side board it out. No one is going to attack into it to give you 10 deathtouch fliers. There are numerous ways to neutralise it without dealing it damage. Or you will be attacked by so much that you will die that turn and never get to use your wasp tokens.

It might be more interesting if you can damage the nest yourself to produce tokens, waiting for your opponent to do so probably won't work out.

Personally I'm not a fan of either- they both seem pretty meh to me. If I had the choose is go with the Queen not knowing the deck. It seems much more useful.

The token Hydra (not to be confused with Hydra token ) of the set. Can't go without a Hydra.

I could see that being used. If it dies, it still does something. Doubt I would do anything other than morph it unless times were desperate.

Also what's up with the horse look?

I've barely seen a morph card I'd use outside of limited.

Well, I just got sold on Temur Frontier for pre-release.

The two Chiefs they just spoiled today makes me want to make a Orzhov Beatdown deck; ones a 3/2 Gives Other Warriors +1/+0, the other is a 2/3 Gives Other Warriors +0/+1, both are BW Warriors. And then Athreos, God of Passage.

With Utter End, Silence the Believers, Thoughtseize, and others, I think this is going to be an amazing deck.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Hopefully we'll see some more warrior-creatures in black and white as the commons are revealed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was thinking the exact same thing. Hopefully we'll see some more warrior-creatures in black and white as the commons are revealed.

Well, if nothing else, we have a black one drop from Tormented Hero.

Now, this card isn't impressive at all. I'm only sharing it because Colossodon is now a word.

I Colossodon. You Colossodon. He- she- me... Colossodon. Colossodon; Colossodoning; We'll have thee Colossodon; Colossodonrama; Colossodonlogy; the study of Colossodon. It's first grade, Wilytank!

Well, here it is folks..... mono green devotion, (sort of Post Rotation, a couple things will need replacing after khans)

http://www.mtgvault.com/tigerknight21/decks/mono-green-devotion-2/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This deck is AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just watch out for counterspells, and kill spells, unless you can 'outgrow' them with the power of GREEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 orkkiller21 wrote:
Well, here it is folks..... mono green devotion, (sort of Post Rotation, a couple things will need replacing after khans)

http://www.mtgvault.com/tigerknight21/decks/mono-green-devotion-2/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This deck is AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just watch out for counterspells, and kill spells, unless you can 'outgrow' them with the power of GREEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Looks like you have a severe lack of trample and evasion. The deck seems like it could be chump-blocked all day long.

Thats just how the deck is built, its all supposed to be mana ramped early, and then you play the big creatures, etc. But you are not seeing something else, the deck is fine with getting chump blocked, since why not get the little buggers out of the way so next turn you can swing in, and nail your opponent

So question for you guys; how much of a Douche does it make you if you're in the middle of a Modern Masters draft, open up a pack and see a Foil Tarmogoyf ($450) and a normal Tarmogoyf ($200), and you just get up and walk off from the draft?

 Slarg232 wrote:
So question for you guys; how much of a Douche does it make you if you're in the middle of a Modern Masters draft, open up a pack and see a Foil Tarmogoyf ($450) and a normal Tarmogoyf ($200), and you just get up and walk off from the draft?

That's a pretty impressive pack right there.

It came up in my playgroup (The conversation, not the pack) and I wanted some second opinions.

 Slarg232 wrote:
It came up in my playgroup (The conversation, not the pack) and I wanted some second opinions.

Depends on the playgroup I suppose. I'd be pretty miffed since it's a draft, and fair is fair.

I could have sworn that actually happened at a draft- and I'm pretty sure they walked off. I would do the same. They can't really stop you from dropping since you already paid for the cards.

The consensus so far has been in two camps:

"That's filthy; it's like walking into a casino, dropping your chips at a poker game, not liking the number that came up and just leaving."

And

"You could either leave the Draft, or you should just ask to buy a new pack to replace that one."

I don't agree with either of those personally. They bought the packs- and no one loses anything if they walk off. If they don't want to participate, that's their deal. It's not like they're stealing packs from the store- they paid for it, it's theirs. They just decided not to trade cards that day.

I think the store should ban you from future events for doing that. Feel free to drop before the draft, but sitting at the table and having all opened a pack, or be mid draft if it were the second or third pack, and someone just walking out because they don't want to pass their pack around and keep it all. It's incredibly unsporting and shouldn't be tolerated in a gaming community. It also messes up the draft and likely will result in an odd number of people in the pod so someone has to take the by each round.

It's just cards, take the foil Goyf and pass it on and be happy. Don't be a greedy gak. I can't see an excuse for doing such a thing. There's just as much chance of you getting a Goyf passed to you should person beside you get such a luck pack.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I think the store should ban you from future events for doing that. Feel free to drop before the draft, but sitting at the table and having all opened a pack, or be mid draft if it were the second or third pack, and someone just walking out because they don't want to pass their pack around and keep it all. It's incredibly unsporting and shouldn't be tolerated in a gaming community. It also messes up the draft and likely will result in an odd number of people in the pod so someone has to take the by each round.

It's just cards, take the foil Goyf and pass it on and be happy. Don't be a greedy gak. I can't see an excuse for doing such a thing. There's just as much chance of you getting a Goyf passed to you should person beside you get such a luck pack.

I'm sorry but I see about ($)650 excuses to walk away with that pack. greedy or not its not specifically against the rules.

Mr.Church13 wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I think the store should ban you from future events for doing that. Feel free to drop before the draft, but sitting at the table and having all opened a pack, or be mid draft if it were the second or third pack, and someone just walking out because they don't want to pass their pack around and keep it all. It's incredibly unsporting and shouldn't be tolerated in a gaming community. It also messes up the draft and likely will result in an odd number of people in the pod so someone has to take the by each round.

It's just cards, take the foil Goyf and pass it on and be happy. Don't be a greedy gak. I can't see an excuse for doing such a thing. There's just as much chance of you getting a Goyf passed to you should person beside you get such a luck pack.

I'm sorry but I see about ($)650 excuses to walk away with that pack. greedy or not its not specifically against the rules.

Plus it's one less person competing for the prize- usually a box. And it doesn't mess up the draft- they walk as soon as they open it. Unless you're doing hardcore draftmath there's nothing to be upset over.

Mr.Church13 wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I think the store should ban you from future events for doing that. Feel free to drop before the draft, but sitting at the table and having all opened a pack, or be mid draft if it were the second or third pack, and someone just walking out because they don't want to pass their pack around and keep it all. It's incredibly unsporting and shouldn't be tolerated in a gaming community. It also messes up the draft and likely will result in an odd number of people in the pod so someone has to take the by each round.

It's just cards, take the foil Goyf and pass it on and be happy. Don't be a greedy gak. I can't see an excuse for doing such a thing. There's just as much chance of you getting a Goyf passed to you should person beside you get such a luck pack.

I'm sorry but I see about ($)650 excuses to walk away with that pack. greedy or not its not specifically against the rules.

No one can stop you leaving at any time. But for the sake of good manners and sportsmanship in the local community, they should stop you coming back.

Just got back from Midnight Pre-release. Twas fun, I won $50 in door prizes and got to draft Modern Masters. (Drafted Affinity minus Ravager, lost horribly to thankfully the guy who won the entire tourney.)

I can tell you that Sultai is pretty boss. You wouldn't think you could support a ton of Dredge Cards, but I had six or so of them in a 40 card deck comfortably. I did horribly because the best creature I got was Meandering Towershell, but eh, what can you do?

Mardu and Temur sell like hotcakes, so if you guys plan on playing those, GET THERE FIRST. Then it's Azban, then Sultai, then Jeskai. Do not underestimate Outlast, it's nuckin futs.

Also, on the subject of Taking Double Goyf and running, you can do that according to the official rules, and if you are banned from the store for playing, you can actually tweet to one of the community managers and if she catches it, she WILL cut that store off from all MTG products.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I think the store should ban you from future events for doing that. Feel free to drop before the draft, but sitting at the table and having all opened a pack, or be mid draft if it were the second or third pack, and someone just walking out because they don't want to pass their pack around and keep it all. It's incredibly unsporting and shouldn't be tolerated in a gaming community. It also messes up the draft and likely will result in an odd number of people in the pod so someone has to take the by each round.

It's just cards, take the foil Goyf and pass it on and be happy. Don't be a greedy gak. I can't see an excuse for doing such a thing. There's just as much chance of you getting a Goyf passed to you should person beside you get such a luck pack.

I'm sorry but I see about ($)650 excuses to walk away with that pack. greedy or not its not specifically against the rules.

No one can stop you leaving at any time. But for the sake of good manners and sportsmanship in the local community, they should stop you coming back.

If the person drafting next to me opens dual-goyfs, I'm going to tell him congratulations and I don't mind if you walk away. They got lucky, and I'm not going to be the jerk that gets all butthurt that he didn't pass a goyf.

And what is unsportsmanlike about it? They didn't want to pass $200 your way? The game hasn't even really started yet, and what they drafted if anything yet wasn't yours anyway.

Don't make out it's about me being a 'jerk' because I didn't get a card I wanted. How does that work? I want to complete the event I've paid to attend while someone else runs out in the middle because they got greedy? I don't complain about rare drafting, people can choose what they like, the issue is that they fully participate in the draft everyone has paid to attend. I wouldn't walk out if I got a good pack, I expect others to do the same. Spoiling the drafting pod by changing your mind mid-draft about playing because you got good cards is unsporting. One issue is that more often than not it will leave an odd number of people at the table, thus someone has to sit out of each round. If people always did this when they got good cards it would make for a poor and disruptive FNM. Drafting it part of the game.

It doesn't disrupt the draft pod other than you're more likely to see a specific card make the wheel. As for the tournament someone may sit out each round, but there's one less person you have to beat for the top prize. It seems more like a win/win for everyone. They get their expensive rares, your deck has more on-color cards, and there isn't as many people competing for the top prize. It's not unsporting if they decide to give up their chance for more cards. They walked away before taking to the field.

The fewer people in the draft the more difficult it is to pick up on-colour cards because the pool is smaller. I really don't know what you're talking about.

It is discourteous and rude to walk out of a draft part way. No can stop you obviously. But it would be heavily frowned upon among the players I know and likely people would not wish to share a pod with you in future. Take the cards, but it might not be easy to get a game in future.

Say you open a pack with two white cards you want- you take the better one, and with fewer people at the table the more likely it is you'll see that other card come back around to you. Thus you're more likely to get the cards you need to make a better deck.

We'll just have to agree we feel differently on the matter.

Well, now I really wish I bought into a couple of those modern masters drafts now that this discussion prompted me to look at all that was released for that set. Even things that aren't Tarmogoyf, Dark Confidant, or Cryptic Command have some sort of other interest to me. I mean I don't know if people use Tooth and Nail in Modern, but I could sure use if for my Jund big creature EDH deck.

On that note, some of the "bulk" rares are kinda odd choices to be thrown in. Do people actually use Death Cloud, Dragonstorm, Earwig Squad, or Greater Gargadon in Modern?

They're usually engines for odd decks, or banning a have changed the decks they went in. Dragonstorm would shoot out 4 Hellkites to dome a player for 20. Some of them warped the meta for the time they were in standard as well- they're all just powerful cards or enablers.

First ever prerelease, chose Sultai, pulled surrak, clever impersonator and a foil ringmate rok. Needless to say I was happy, went 1-4 (yeah, I aint good).

Now here's the cool story and the icing on the cake, the judge over seeing the event took kindly to me and we regularly talked during the intervals, he see I had a decent understanding was really loving the whole experience, at the end he went to me and my friend, handed us a fistful of cards, I said "oh are these what you got last prerelease?" (As I asked him if he got anything good earlier) he said "no, their yours now" I just went like WTF and he explained he has over 40k cards and these were just some nice commons he collected from KtK. I was really happy, thinking this is one of the nicest things I've had a near stranger do for me, the he came back with more, then again, by now random guys who opened their prerelease boxes and handed me cards, by now I got a foot heigh stack of cards, a playset of each common and 1 or 2 of each uncommon.

On the way out the shop keeper asked of we had a good time, I lifted the bag and he smiled, went under the counter, lifted up 1 booster box of RtR filled with random cards, one of Gatecrash filled with cards and two of Nyx same as the others. Pushed 'em in our direction and said to keen them.

So yeah, got 5/kilos of cards and a great fething time, met remarkable people who tweaked my decks to their best and a €25 card. No Sidisi though, that's next on my list, then world domination, and based on my luck, say hello to grand emperor dark apostle!

Yeah, veteran players are usually cool with giving newbies commons, uncommons, and even bulk rares that don't have a lot of value. It benefits them as well because they can get rid of stuff they don't need but can't trade and is just taking up room.

Well...... some veteran players, but yeah, i have met those, but then there are the veteran players that are/can be total jerks, just saying, in my area there is a huge mix of them, it gets really old with some though, since some are cool guys, then there will be the guys that just dis everyone for no reason at all, and think they are top dog at everything magic just because they have a deck they foiled out, etc, its really pathetic sometimes

It's still cool to see it sometimes. This one guy brought his son in and another guy who's friends with the dad bought three booster packs of Dragon's Maze as the entry into the standard event that night. He goes up to the kid and says, "Hey, bud. You promise you'll be good for your dad? Then I'll give you the commons and uncommons." He does so, then he looks at the rares. Remember that this is Dragon's Maze we're talking about. "Hey, kid. Here's the rares too."

What were the rares?

Just pulled a normal and a foil Polluted Delta from my box, doesn't even matter what else I got (And I did get some GOOD stuff.)

 orkkiller21 wrote:
What were the rares?

Varolz for sure. I don't remember the other two, so I'll just say Render Silent and Ruric Thar.

I'm VERY new to MTG and am looking for critique of my first deck. I've chosen R/W heroic because all that combo-wombo stuff seems cool to me. Anyway, here's my proposed list (sorry, but it's really out of order when it comes to mana costs.)

10x Plains
8x Mountains
2x Nomad Outpost

4x Akroan Crusader
4x Fabled Hero
4x Phalanx Leader
2x Cavalry Pegasus
4x Abzan Falconer


4x Gods Willing
4x Coordinated Assault
2x Martial Glory
2x Boros Charm
4x Dauntless Onslaught
2x Chained to the Rocks
1x Spear of Heliod
3x Gift of Orzhova

Sideboard:
4x Favored Hoplite
4x Akroan Hoplite
2x Lightning Strike
3x Wingsteed Rider/Nyxborn Rollicker
2x Abzan Battle Priest/2x Ainok Bond Kin

Mostly everything is from the Theros block, with a few things from Khans and Gift of Orzhova from Gatecrash.

The last 2 choices on the sideboard have slashes because I can't choose which ones, but I'm leaning toward the Ainok on the bottom.

Also, I'm utterly uninterested in playing standard because it seems really silly to me that you wait a year and your cards are useless, not sure what to think about the other formats, but I think I just want to do casual-style playing, where all the cards are legal except the stupid OP ones.

Modern is your format of choice

All you have to do to make that deck standard legal is replace Gift of Orzhova.

I'd add a couple more lands- 20 seems a little light.

In Modern everything after 8th Edition and Mirrodin block remains legal- other than the banlist. The hardest thing about getting in to Modern is the mana base. Luckily Kahns is bringing new fetchlands(or new for Modern anyway), and the recent reprinting of the shocklands means it's a pretty good time to get in. Cost-wise anyway.

I have a stack of commons and uncommons about two feet high in my flat that need getting rid of, must be 2000 cards. If someone wanted them in London they're free..

So the new set has an actually decent budget alternative for burn decks.

I think it'll make a splash in standard. Seems fairly decent for a one-drop. In Modern it's hard to tell. Could make another win condition for storm, or maybe squeeze in as copies 5-8 of Goblin Guide.

Grixis "Sac and Attack"

Land;

1 polluted delta (€25 e)
1 bloodstained mire (€15 e)
1 temple of deceit (€3.50 e)
1 temple of epiphany (yes)
1 temple of malice (€5 e)
1 steamvents (€10 e)
1 watery grave (€10 e)
1 blood crypt (€8 e)
1 dragonskull summit (€2 e)
1 drowned catacomb (€2.30 e)
1 sulfur falls (€7.40 e)
4 crumbling necropolis (€1 e)
2 island (yes)
2 mountain (yes)
3 swamp (yes)
(22)

Planeswalker;

2 Nicol bolas, planeswalker (€3.50 e)
1 ashiok, nightmare weaver (€11 e)
(3)

Creatures;

4 thraximundar (€1)
3 dominos of fealty (€2)
2 endrek sahr, master breeder (20c e)
2 puppet conjurer (10c e)
1 ryusei, falling star (€1 e)
1 kokusho, evening star (€9 e)
2 keiga, tide star (€3 e)
2 cemetery reaper (€1.50 e)
2 young pyromancer (€1.75 e)
(19)

Artifacts;

2 unscythe, killer of kings (€1 e)
(2)

Instants;

3 blustersquall (15c e)
2 mizzium skin (15c e)
(5)

Sorceries;

2 cruel ultimatum (40c e)
3 slave of bolas (25c e)
3 dragon fodder (45c e)
1 call of the nightwing (15c e)
(9)

Total/ (60)

Thoughts? (Modern deck)

Wilytank wrote:So the new set has an actually decent budget alternative for burn decks.

Sinful Hero wrote:I think it'll make a splash in standard. Seems fairly decent for a one-drop. In Modern it's hard to tell. Could make another win condition for storm, or maybe squeeze in as copies 5-8 of Goblin Guide.

Actually, it's already been in the WINNING Legacy Open deck for last week. It's pretty good.




I finally found my Modern Madness deck's all-star player; Molten-Tail Masticore. Dude does everything a Madness deck needs it to.

But Legacy is not Modern. They're similar, but a whole lot less control is present in Modern.

More control in Legacy? I know Force of Will is a thing, but while playtesting stuff online my biggest enemy is me fizzling in the middle of a turn 1 combo.

There aren't really a whole lot of Control decks in Modern is what I was saying. Most are aggro/combo/tempo decks. Even RWU Control plays more like a burn deck.

Threw together this BUG commander deck today centered around +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/redistribution-of-filth/

Finally did a Khans draft and I think I've gotten a blast of inspiration to go start a Sultai control deck for standard. It all started when I opened my first pack and pulled out my only rare pick, Hooded Hydra (who performed well by the way), so I felt like I should go green. The pack passed to me yielded a Despise and thought "Thoughtseize substitutes are generally pretty good. Maybe I'll do G/B." At some point, I decided to start picking out blue and chose to go full on Sultai with all three colors being relatively balanced. Got discarding stuff like Rakshasa's Secret and Mardu Skullhunter; card advantage like Scout the Borders, Sultai Soothsayer, and Bitter Revelation; Delve goodies like that Vulture, the Mandrills, and Dead Drop (a game saver); and the counter spells...my god the counter spells.

A Disdainful Stroke, a Stubborn Denial, and three Cancels. THREE fething CANCELS!!

1-2 game 1, 2-0 game 2, and 1-1-1 the final two games. Apparently, there's a lot of ties going on at the Khans draft at the store. I don't know if it's because we're all great (or terrible) at draft or that this set is just well rounded for limited. But I've had my taste of Delver blood. I starting to want more.

Week 2 and again got three Cancels, a Disdainful Stroke and a Stubborn Denial. If I splashed red, I'd have run a Mindswipe and a Trap Essence as well but I wanted to run Sultai again and those were the only two worthwhile red spells I pulled. Went 1-1-2 this week though. Mardu can go straight to hell.

Doing some differnt things in Magic recently. Wednesday was an original Tavnica draft, £23 buy in but I pulled a Dark Confidant in the first pack, played Rakdos overall making use of the 'hellbent' ability. Tonight I'm doing a Khans 2HG with the girlfriend. During half term there's an original Mirroden draft. Fun times.

 Wilytank wrote:
Mardu can go straight to hell.

Well, here's some irony for me. I drafted tonight, opened a Crackling Doom pack 1 and a Butcher of the Horde pack 2 so I drafted Mardu. 3 rounder that went 1-1-1 for me, but I did place this time.

Alright, I'm mostly just complaining here, but why is it the only two stores in a practical driving distance from me do drafts and standard on the same day? Wouldn't it be better to stagger it so they're not leaching customers from each other?

It happens, back home, (I'm away at college, but I am referring to my home area where I am from), there are 4 or maybe even a couple more stores that do the same thing, otherwise, there is really only 1 store near my college that does MTG events, but the majority of the players are hardcore competitive, and a few are very obnoxious, but yeah, there are a lot of stores in my home area that all have alright events, but its hard to decide on which to attend.

My home store does both at the same time and there's rarely any complaints or problems. The draft crowd gets to have fun and so does the standard group. Both groups get catered to and there's room to accommodate everyone so why not? If there's not enough for one then it's whatever and they're offered a spot in the other before it fires.

My main complaint is both stores do standard Friday, draft Saturday, and neither has the crowd to do both on one night. I only get Fridays free usually, so I'm just SOL for drafting lately.

Agreed, my area has two stores (Technically three, but we don't talk about that one), and both do Draft on Fridays with Standard on Saturday.

Of course, I only play Modern and Commander :/

Thought some here might be interested in this KS for these cool acrylic deck stands.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1823824020/abode-thematic-gaming-accessories









not exactly cheap,.... but pretty cool

they have some other themes coming for AGOT, and perhaps others.

No discussion of Shuffle-Gate?

What's there to discuss? He got caught cheating, and was banned for it.

What is shuffle-gate?

http://thisisinfamous.com/shufflegate-plagues-magic-the-gathering/

High-level player was caught cheating, didn't get his money, got banned for four years, and threw a hissy fit on Facebook.

He should have been banned for life, who knows how many he's defrauded of prize money. If you did this in a casino you'd be up on criminal charges. He whines about being 'sentenced to four years', yes four years just not playing a card game. Life time ban would be better, greater deterrent.

Four years is basically life.

Also, I'm super excited about the new Commanders and the Duel Deck Anthology. Now to find a place to preorder them that isn't gouging...

If he wanted to play at an LGS he could always just register a new DCI number. As long as nobody rats him out he can still play FNM with any buddies he has.

Do people think it's be better to make a standard esper control or buy a new commander deck?

Depends of you want something more casual(commander) that won't rotate out of legality, or something more competitive for FNM(standard).

That's what I was thinking but to be honest, the group i play with (2 other guys) doesn't tend to do much and I've been debating whether to start attending FMM as I take magic a lot more serious than my friends who just buy the occasional pack after the initial intro pack.

I'd go with the standard deck then. If you have a store within driving distance you'll always get a game on Friday nights at least. Whatever extra cards you have you can use to throw together a commander deck out of anyway.

Ok, I think I do agree actually thinking about it

So I'm definitely buying the Red and Black Commander Decks, what about you guys?


Also gonna try to trade for the other three Planeswalkers.

I don't play much commander, but which ones have good Modern playables rares?

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I don't play much commander, but which ones have good Modern playables rares?

So far, the one with the Wormcoil Engine.

^^^the red one

This is for casual players. I found a cool article on keeping costs down if you don't care about competitive or valuable cards.

I'll summarize it:
1) Don't buy boosters
2) Buy sets or playsets (x4) of commons and uncommons during the height of the draft season for a set
3) Buy bulk rares from a singles seller you trust (say rares under $1, 50 or 25 cents)
4) Every time standard rotates, the rares of the set that rotates out plunges, so the bulks go from about half the rares to a solid majority. Rotation is bulk rare buying season.

I did this with Theros, Born and Journey and got a set of each common and uncommon and made a cube out of them. It really feels like drafting actual packs of JBT but the archetypes change a bit because of the singleton nature. I host a draft night once a month at pretty much no additional cost (just snack food)

I'm also really surprising people in Commander playing cards they never heard of as I play some dumb 25 cent rare instead of a $10 card they think should be in all decks as a staple. I rarely win because the people I play with are the type who spend $300+ on a mana base for each of their Commander decks (rare lands add up fast).

I'm in Canada, so I usually get my singles from Face2Face games or Wizards Tower and my common and uncommon sets off of eBay sellers in Canada. If you're in the US, I've heard good things about Card Kingdom. I've been going back in time and working may way forward buying bulk rares from sets from the past. The end plan is a cube of all bulk rares (and loads of dumb cards to try in fun Commander decks).

EDIT: Oh right, the article link:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/casual-related-formats/535291-are-you-a-casual-player-stuck-on-the-booster-pack

EDIT 2:

Well, using TCGPlayer's mid price, the top 30 rares of Theros go for $90.45 if you bought them as singles while the bottom 30 would cost you $7.46 and the most expensive single card in the bottom 30 would be around $1.

It's actually kind of amazing just how much the secondary market pushes all of the collector capital onto chase rares, effectively subsidizing those who don't care about them.

EDIT3 : I just checked on the latest set and sure enough, 31 rares at less than a dollar a piece with the top 5 highest price ones all being land.

---

Who else is excited for the Elspeth vs Kiora duel decks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????? They are said to be released on Feb. 27th, 2015!

 orkkiller21 wrote:
Who else is excited for the Elspeth vs Kiora duel decks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????? They are said to be released on Feb. 27th, 2015!

A friend of mine always buys the pre-cons and we just play with them. They're usually pretty good just to be played as is. Were you interested in them as a source of cards or to play as a duel?

Well, mostly to see what kind of edh material might be in them, as well, as some possible modern material, or just use them as duel decks for fun, since I already have way too many in my collection, lol

I've been trying to convince my friend to use his previous duel decks as fodder for his commander decks, but I think he hates deckbuilding. I'm just bad at it outside of limited.

Aaaaaand, here's the token hydra.

That hydra needs to learn Pacifism. Though green does have decent enchantment removal. It'd still be funny if a green big mana turn was sunk into this and then the next person cast a pacifism effect on it.

...Which is why Archetype of Endurance and/or Asceticism is big in Green EDH decks with emphasis on creatures. My Jund gargantuan deck benefits greatly from Archetype of Endurance.

Good call. I love the whole archetype cycle, but the green one just fits so well into what green can do well in commander. It's all about getting enough hex proof sources though. If you end up tutoring for archetype of endurance and the new hydra, you can probably tutor for something more game ending. It depends on the local power level though. I play with people who go for c13 tuned. Where a new person who has a c13 deck can play and not be totally out classed but the actual constructed decks are likely a bit better.

There's another group in town where if you don't spend $500+ on a manabase and goodstuff staples you likely have no chance of really doing anything. Lots of lock outs and early game combos and crap like that.

Well here's my Jund deck again.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/the-pulverizer-jund-behemoth-apocalypse/

The only cards I don't actually have are Vorinclex, Phyrexian Obliterator, Kalitas, Mage Slayer, and Rune-Scarred Demon. But there's a good bit of synergy among the deck here although it is slightly tailored to deal with a Simic player that's been beating a lot of face. Spellbreaker Behemoth prevents my stuff from being countered, Archetype of Endurance gives hexproof, Spearbreaker Behemoth makes my stuff indestructible, and Tooth and Nail/Garruk/Lurking Predators gets those things out without paying for their mana cost.

 Wilytank wrote:
Well here's my Jund deck again.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/the-pulverizer-jund-behemoth-apocalypse/

The only cards I don't actually have are Vorinclex, Phyrexian Obliterator, Kalitas, Mage Slayer, and Rune-Scarred Demon. But there's a good bit of synergy among the deck here although it is slightly tailored to deal with a Simic player that's been beating a lot of face. Spellbreaker Behemoth prevents my stuff from being countered, Archetype of Endurance gives hexproof, Spearbreaker Behemoth makes my stuff indestructible, and Tooth and Nail/Garruk/Lurking Predators gets those things out without paying for their mana cost.

Summoning Pact is a good creature tutor you could add. Helps to ensure you get what you need when you need it.

Yeah, I can see myself squeezing that in. Probably ditch Jund Charm because it doesn't really help much.

So despite my earlier post about sticking strictly budget and only using commons, uncommons and buying bulk rares when sets rotate out, I got into Standard.

I ended up grabbing the cards for a budget version of Sligh (mono red, but no rabblemaster), the UW Heroic deck and the extra cards needed to combine them into either Jeskai Heroic Combo or Jeskai Burn. The only thing that's weak in the Jeskai decks is the mana base. I just can't afford rare lands. I think they'll be fine for the more casual FNM, but not for any real event. If I want to play in a real event, I'll have to use UW Heroic or Sligh.

I've been cranking out games on MTGO learning the decks and once my cards arrive I'll be playing at FNMs as well.

It's a very different experience than my constant cubing and commander.

What does the Sligh deck run if it doesn't run rabblemasters? I know there's some good stuff outside of goblin tribal in mono red, but what specifically do you run?

Akroan Crusader - buff it and pop out tokens
Firedrinker Satyr - 1 drop with 2 power
Foundry Street Denizen - gets bigger for the turn when other red creatures enter it
Monastery Swiftspear - haste creature
Satyr Hoplite - one drop that gets +1/+1 counters when you buff it
Frenzied Goblin - attack, 1 red and something can't block
Arena Athlete - buff it and something can't block

Basically you want to prevent blockers with the Frenzied Goblin, Arena Athlete and Hammer Hands, while boosting up damage output with Foundry Street Denizen and then other red creatures entering the battlefield and pump spells. Stoke the Flames is a pricey card, but it's the prime finisher in the deck. The side board is full of minor burn spells as when you're on the draw they can make the difference.

I had an excellent time in Modern yesterday even though I went 2-2. This is the deck I based mine off of: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/i-hate-you-die-in-a-fire/

The only differences being that Volcanic Hammer is replaced by Spite of Mogis and my sideboard has 2 Boil, 2 Echoing Ruin, 2 Roiling Terrain, 2 Anger of the Gods, 2 Sowing Salt, and 3 Peak Eruption (so my sideboard is basically incomplete). Lots of fun though. Lost to Infect (went 1-2) and U/R Delver (0-2 but it was close).

What did you win against? I would figure you would do well against infect. What happened- sorcery speed screw you?

That deck sounds hilarious and awesome. I know I've played too much commander when I see that much land destruction and think "no one should do that!" In a normal competitive event though, all is fair.

Gah, I'm NEVER going to be able to put together an Owling Mine list.

Modern doesn't have redundancy for Ebony Owl Netsuke (Deal 4 damage to any opponent with 7+ Cards at the beginning of their upkeep), and Black Vise (Cards in hand -4 for damage) is banned in Legacy.

Howling Mine (everyone draws an extra card) is of course redundant EVERYWHERE.

Everyone who plays magic needs to watch the newest south park episode!

 Slarg232 wrote:
Gah, I'm NEVER going to be able to put together an Owling Mine list.

Modern doesn't have redundancy for Ebony Owl Netsuke (Deal 4 damage to any opponent with 7+ Cards at the beginning of their upkeep), and Black Vise (Cards in hand -4 for damage) is banned in Legacy.

Howling Mine (everyone draws an extra card) is of course redundant EVERYWHERE.

Have you considered Forced Fruition?

Also doubles as one of the best mill cards ever made.

Sasori wrote:Everyone who plays magic needs to watch the newest south park episode!

Randy is the best character in the show.

It was a really great episode.

Wow. Forced fruition would be great for my draw deck.

 Sasori wrote:
Everyone who plays magic needs to watch the newest south park episode!

My wife laughed a little too loud at the liquid nitrogen bit for my liking.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
What did you win against? I would figure you would do well against infect. What happened- sorcery speed screw you?

I didn't pull enough burn spells. I won that night against a dude's mill thing he was trying out with grindclock and voltaic key and against a standard deck.

Tonight however was hilarious.

I went 2-2 again, lost against Boggles (my worst match up) and Burn. Went 2-1 on another mostly standard deck, but I'm very satisfied at having 2-0'd Splinter Twin.

Here's how it went down. Game 1, I drop some Stone Rains, he naturally Remands them. His problem? He just couldn't draw lands. He got like three lands out before he ran out of counters and I finished him off with Magnivore. Game 2 I sided in my 2 Boils.



The game goes more smoothly for him at first, he counters all my destruction until I end up having 6 Mountains to his 2 Steam Vents, 1 Island, and 1 Desolate Lighthouse. I pass turn totally untapped, he flashes in Snapcaster to a Lightning Bolt. I have a Boil in hand and respond with it considering that he probably didn't side in Dispel since most of my deck (i.e. the rest of it) is Sorcery speed.

"Is that a card?"

"Yes it is."

It resolves.

And he looked like he was about ready to rage. His board state on the top of his turn was the Lighthouse and the Snapcaster. Didn't draw a land. Back to me, Seismic Spike the Lighthouse to Pyroclasm the Snapcaster. Following turn, Magnivore goes out. He scoops after he didn't like his draw from Gitaxian Probe. Now Splinter Twin is not a cheap deck and it lost to one that cost less than $40 which I also believe kept him from placing. I was unable to keep the smug grin and chuckling contained. I didn't place either, but instances like this make me not care. This is what I had in mind when I first looked up this deck.

 Wilytank wrote:

I don't know what they were thinking when they designed that card. There's very little fun about game elements that basically say "don't actually play the game we both sat down to play." I don't think it should have been printed back in 8th, but after hearing your story, I'm glad it was.



These counted as Islands too! That's priceless.

Now Splinter Twin is not a cheap deck and it lost to one that cost less than $40 which I also believe kept him from placing. I was unable to keep the smug grin and chuckling contained. I didn't place either, but instances like this make me not care. This is what I had in mind when I first looked up this deck.

I love it when super expensive decks lose to budget ones and their owners get all mad and go on tilt. I had someone rage out and quit in the semi finals of a local event last week when my budget aggro deck ran over his super expensive abzan planeswalkers deck after it had a slow start. "Those are all ****ing commons and uncommons!? WTF?!" I didn't even have to play the second game of the match as he walked out of the store. I lost in the finals to Jeskai heroic combo, which is also a relatively affordable deck.

I've been trying out budget decks on MTGO and it's amazing what the rogue factor can accomplish. It's funny when someone thinks they can buy victory and they lose to a $40 deck despite their deck costing more than a mortgage payment.

---

Either the one that destroys Plains or Forests was reprinted in 8th as well. Choke is a green Island strangler that can aggravate people too. I always loved playing land destruction- they had the coolest sounding and looking cards. Obliterate, Decree of Annihilation, Akroma's Judgement... I must be That Guy.

This is Modern legal. I think I'll track down two for the sideboard.

Are there lots of decks in modern that play plains? I took a look at some of the decks that top8ed recent events and I know people tend to net deck off of those and saw some. Locally do you hit enough plains and plains-like-objects ( ) that you can destroy to make it worth it for the board?

 Wilytank wrote:
This is Modern legal. I think I'll track down two for the sideboard.

That's the one I was talking about! I think the sorcery speed Boil was in 9th too right?

Plains aren't really as heavily played as islands, which is why Boil can make it's way into a sideboard. Plus the instant speed. Heck, even Affinity runs one island usually.

I'm getting more and more into budget standard. It's hilarious what build you can make with commons, uncommons and some bulk rares. And then you play them and the guys with $500 Abzan w/ Planeswalkers decks are like "wtf are you playing?" and then you win and they get all mad.

The best thing is the Jeskai ascendancy combo can be added to so many decks. I have an Izzet Artifacts deck where I just subbed in 4 Jeskai taplands and between that and my springleaf drum, I can splash for the ascendancy. Everything else in my deck pretty much stays the same (retraction helix was already in the deck). Killing a guy in a single turn with Shrapnel blast after partially comboing off and hitting him with a couple 8/10 ornithopters is fantastic.

I also played a UB Control and the guy mind seized, saw the ascendency and thought I was doing to the typical Jeskai deck, so he boarded in tons of destroy target creature type spells which don't work on indestructible ensouled Darksteel Citadels.

I ended up losing to an interesting deck which was basically 4 colour base green with splashes for the three Jeskai colours. Basically the normal green ramp + big creatures + Jeskai combo package. It was rough.

Standard is in a really, really strange place right now in terms of the viability of rogue decks. People need to be able to deal with Abzan and Mardu Midrange, but at the same time survive the aggro decks and now control is being figured out. So people's sideboarding is stretched to the max, so you can get there with budget decks with sufficient synergy.

If I were to make a non budget deck, it'd be Temur Aggro, but the mana base is just too expensive. You need to reliably cast three colours spells on turn three and having the majority of your lands be multicoloured rares is just nuts. If I wanted to spend that kind of money, I'd get 5 or 6 budget decks instead.

Budget standard has helped me greatly, and its a great way to save money! Here is a link to some great post rotation decks built on a budget!

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/budget-forum-standard/66279-yakusokus-budget-guide-to-standard

Or, you can/should also look at Northernwarlord's decks on MTGVault, he has a great selection and variety of budget decks from, modern, EDH, and standard

Awesome links and suggestions. Thank you so much!

Northern Warlord is very, very prolific:
http://www.mtgvault.com/northernwarlord/

Though lots of his stuff looks like he came up with the idea but then never tested them. They are great jumping off points, but I find a few matches against common archetypes on MTGO really gives clarity in terms of tuning the deck (especially the side board).

What I really like though is how ridiculously cheap some of his brews are. When it's $10-20 (with some lower) for the whole deck, I think anyone will have the budget for some cards after testing for tuning.

On MTGO I'm using the MTGO Bazaar bot family and find it way, way too easy to add another budget deck to my collection to try out. Especially when existing decks already have lots of the cards. Like how having UW Heroic and Sligh means Jeskai is only a few cards away. Then I have a mono Blue deck and going Simic Kruphix is only a few green cards away. Izzet Robot Burn also took only a few cards to add. I've decided that I'll stick with these for now and see if I want to make paper versions of more than the three I have.

I think I'll actually replace my Wildfires for Obliterates.



Sure it's even more expensive, but it also kills creatures and artifacts. Plus I won't have to sac any darksteel citadels. I also like the word obliterate.

But can't be countered is probably the big thing. With what's going on on the cover art, I can just think of this happening: http://youtu.be/7VG2aJyIFrA?t=1m57s

That shouldn't be something you can just Remand away.

Are the games going long enough that you can actually cast an 8 CMC spell in modern?

Sometimes they do, otherwise you can just use mana ramp, etc to cast it faster.

What ramp is there in this land destruction deck? Seismic Spike adds 2 red mana to your mana pool but costs 4 to cast.

If you have a bunch of 4 cmc or lower cards and then have a stretch up to 6 cmc for wild fire and lots of the cards also necessitate sacrificing your own lands, how reliably are you ever getting to 8 mana in this deck?

There will be games where things go long and you'll get 8 land out and love the idea of casting this, but for every other game that doesn't get there, it's a dead card in the opening hand and a dead draw along the way. Having 2 6 cost spells when your curve reliably goes to 4 is stretching enough without adding 8 cost spells as well.

It looks like a big cool land destruction effect but with no ramp and the rest of the deck being cheaper spells and sacrificing land, I'm not sure it fits. Seems to be it'll be a dead card in most games you see it.

Unless I don't have a citadel when I pop a boom, I'm not sacrificing lands. And this deck is supposed to drag the game out by blowing up lands and burning things until I get my win con out. There's plenty of games where I haven't drawn it and had to wait a while for Magnivore to show up. By then, my opponent is back on their feet. I feel that Obliterate makes for a better dead man's trigger than Wildfire.

So it is there for when the games go really long. That's cool. It just seemed like 8 cmc was a big ask. I don't know modern well enough to know whether or not that's something you can expect to get to with any regularity. If it helps you get there, great. You'll know through playing how often it ends up being a dead card or not.

Well.........you cold make it r/g.........or something like that.......or r/u/g, or 'temur' as it is now called, with khans, but if you go temur, you could play red land destruction, with the green mana ramping it all, with the creatures, and the blue to add in the extra power to counter stuff, etc, or........however you wanna do it

You don't usually want to go more than two colors with a deck like LD- blowing up your only source of a certain color to stop your opponent can still lose you the game, and you don't want to lose too much life because your wincon is much slower usually.

Yeah, that also, so maybe red blue or red green land destruction would be best

 Wilytank wrote:


And he looked like he was about ready to rage. His board state on the top of his turn was the Lighthouse and the Snapcaster. Didn't draw a land. Back to me, Seismic Spike the Lighthouse to Pyroclasm the Snapcaster. Following turn, Magnivore goes out. He scoops after he didn't like his draw from Gitaxian Probe. Now Splinter Twin is not a cheap deck and it lost to one that cost less than $40 which I also believe kept him from placing. I was unable to keep the smug grin and chuckling contained. I didn't place either, but instances like this make me not care. This is what I had in mind when I first looked up this deck.

Man reminds me of the time i beat a 5CC in standard durring i think shards? (butt load of cryptic commands and stuff) with a no rare deck worth 50 cents at a i think reigonals.

the look on his face

my Mono Red (but with blue) red deck with riverfall mimics is silly.

 frozenwastes wrote:
What ramp is there in this land destruction deck? Seismic Spike adds 2 red mana to your mana pool but costs 4 to cast.

If you have a bunch of 4 cmc or lower cards and then have a stretch up to 6 cmc for wild fire and lots of the cards also necessitate sacrificing your own lands, how reliably are you ever getting to 8 mana in this deck?

There will be games where things go long and you'll get 8 land out and love the idea of casting this, but for every other game that doesn't get there, it's a dead card in the opening hand and a dead draw along the way. Having 2 6 cost spells when your curve reliably goes to 4 is stretching enough without adding 8 cost spells as well.

It looks like a big cool land destruction effect but with no ramp and the rest of the deck being cheaper spells and sacrificing land, I'm not sure it fits. Seems to be it'll be a dead card in most games you see it.

Well, it depends on what format you're going to playing. If you are able to play old cards, the best option for land screw is Armageddon (4cmc) mixed with either things like mana rocks or creatures that produce mana (elves come to mind) coupled with Winter Orb (2cmc) can really shut down a lot.

You seem to be ready to pick up one of the absolutely funnest deck archtypes in Magic: Stax!
Here's a good list of Stax cards

 Wilytank wrote:
I think I'll actually replace my Wildfires for Obliterates.



Sure it's even more expensive, but it also kills creatures and artifacts. Plus I won't have to sac any darksteel citadels. I also like the word obliterate.

But can't be countered is probably the big thing. With what's going on on the cover art, I can just think of this happening: http://youtu.be/7VG2aJyIFrA?t=1m57s

That shouldn't be something you can just Remand away.

If you can find some way to either recur it or sac it at will, I'd use Sundering Titan, instead. It kills multiple lands (especially if your opponents have those juicy, expensive Rav duals), doubles as a huge beatstick, and is also 8 mana (except entirely colourless). Trash for treasure maybe. Is the Living Death for artifacts Modern legal?

Also, where are the avalanche riders?

 RivenSkull wrote:
Well, it depends on what format you're going to playing.

Definitely. My comments were specific to that one posted land destruction deck though.

You seem to be ready to pick up one of the absolutely funnest deck archtypes in Magic: Stax!
Here's a good list of Stax cards

I had a wb "attacking me is a bad idea' deck for edh. Basically where attacking me costs the attacker (life, creatures, mana, whatever) and I end up with more life than if they hadn't attacked. More of a pillow-fort than stax. Maybe it is time to look into going full stax though.

 frozenwastes wrote:

 RivenSkull wrote:
Well, it depends on what format you're going to playing.

Definitely. My comments were specific to that one posted land destruction deck though.

You seem to be ready to pick up one of the absolutely funnest deck archtypes in Magic: Stax!
Here's a good list of Stax cards

I had a wb "attacking me is a bad idea' deck for edh. Basically where attacking me costs the attacker (life, creatures, mana, whatever) and I end up with more life than if they hadn't attacked. More of a pillow-fort than stax. Maybe it is time to look into going full stax though.

Well, a few years ago I threw together a R/B Land destruction/Discard deck using many of the red "kill one land at a time" cards. The 2 problems with those red land destroy cards are 1) they are not win conditions on their own, and 2) they don't kill enough lands fast enough. If you put 16 land kill cards in the deck, you'll kill maybe 6 lands every game.

Using something like Armageddon (which is a cheap card) allows you to hit all their lands in one blow. Having a deck built with the notion of surviving that makes losing lands not an issue.

Either way, you ramp is going to want to be around 3/4 cmc.

It's coming back!

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/arcana/announcing-modern-masters-2015-edition-2014-12-08

GP Vegas is going to be huge again.

I hope the Zendikar fetches are reprinted in MM2015. The Onslaught ones were in Khans and I think Modern could really use all 10 colour combinations being more available.

 frozenwastes wrote:
GP Vegas is going to be huge again.

I hope the Zendikar fetches are reprinted in MM2015. The Onslaught ones were in Khans and I think Modern could really use all 10 colour combinations being more available.

I expect they will be reprinted in the next Khans set

I'm not so sure. Zendikar wasn't that long ago. Or I'm really old.

Zendikar was only 5 years ago, but with Modern Masters, Modern Masters 2015, the Modern Event deck, etc., it looks like Wizards is trying to support modern, so maybe they'll reprint them just so modern is more accessible as a format. I'd like them to be in Fate Reforged, but I think if they're not there they definitely should be in MM2015.

Well, that very Wizards article did bring up Zendikar so it's not totally out of the picture. And if the Etched Champion is any indicator, Scars might be part of it too.

Also, this has crept up already:

Anyone else pick up the anthology?

I thought about buying it for a friend for a present, but it was way too high for what we usually get eachother. He loves preconstructed decks and would definitely play them a lot, but it's outside my budget for this year.

I ordered a copy of the anthology along with a box of the commander stuff, but I'm stuck abroad for the foreseeable future. due to work and the birth of my son in Brazil.

...

I need to get three more copies of that red Living Death for artifacts. I have evil plans with it, a couple of big artifacts/monsters like the above mentioned Sundering Titan and Artificer's Intuition/Thirst for Knowledge. Maybe throw in a few Welders and a Liquimetal Coating or two for good measure.

 frozenwastes wrote:
I thought about buying it for a friend for a present, but it was way too high for what we usually get eachother. He loves preconstructed decks and would definitely play them a lot, but it's outside my budget for this year.

Buy it and split it.

Hopefully they'll reprint Tarmogoyf again.

Modern Masters 2 sounds great, but $10 per pack of cards. Dollars converts straight into pounds in the UK. It's going to be £40 to do a draft including prize pool. That's half the cost of a regular booster box from most suppliers. There's no need to make this such a limited product and slap such a high premium on it. Twice the cost of a regular booster would be more than enough, but three times? Jeeze.

I'm not going to be involved with modern masters packs at all. They're a high demand, high price premium product for a format I don't play. I like thematic sets like Innistrad and Return to Ravnica, making common/uncommon only cubes and playing budget standard.

The thing to remember about Modern is that if you want a full playset of all the different lands so you can make the various decks and fully play the format, you're looking at $1000 for just the mana base to play all the decks. Modern is for people with money and MM2015 is a straight up cash grab reprint set.

If the last modern masters set is anything to go by though, it'll be a fun draft format and people will be excited by the cards they open in terms of the secondary market.

Although I do enjoy the other eternal formats, Modern employs the banhammer far too readily, IMO.
If it so much as remotely looks like a combo deck is creeping towards tier 3, it's hit with the banhammer.

...

I didn't get into Vintage and Legacy because I want to smash creatures into each other until someone falls over.

Magic is supposed to be about two wizards slinging spells at each other, not two generals building armies to fight in their stead.

What cards do you feel shouldn't have been banned so easily? It was my understanding they use the banlist to prevent consistant turn 3 wins/combos, or cards that start to warp the meta too much.

I want ponder and preordain back, for whichever formats they were banned in, I think it was just pauper and legacy and modern though wasn't it? Otherwise.....I might be thinking of the wrong format.......hmmmmm.......

 orkkiller21 wrote:
I want ponder and preordain back, for whichever formats they were banned in, I think it was just pauper and legacy and modern though wasn't it? Otherwise.....I might be thinking of the wrong format.......hmmmmm.......

Banned in modern last time I checked- way too much consistency plus supercharging Storm decks.

Ponder is also restricted in Vintage, although whether it should be is debatable...

But looking over the Modern banned list, two cards jump out immediately as not allowing for consistent turn 3 combo-kills:

Ancestral Visions and Sword of the Meek, although I'm not entirely sure about the latter.
I also see no point to Dark Depths being on that list; There are plenty of answers to large monsters in the format, even on turn 1, and one of the red rituals could probably come off as well; I like Dragonstorm. Taking both off would probably supercharge it too much though. I'm also not sure Affinity is totally busted in a format that big, but I'm no expert on Modern.

Sword of the Meek/Thoper Foundery Combo
Dark Depths can go off on turn 2 with consistancy using Vampire Hexmage and Urborg

Exactly how many answers are there for a 20/20 Indestrucible anyway? Path to Exile is the only one I ever see, and few decks even run that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Although I think it might be better to just ban the Thopter Foundry so other decks can make use of the Sword. I may just be partial to equipment though.

Pacify and bounce cards always make me laugh.
There are also a few random blue that makes it so they do no damage IIRC.



Also if you can force them to sac a creature.

 Desubot wrote:
Pacify and bounce cards always make me laugh.
There are also a few random blue that makes it so they do no damage IIRC.



Also if you can force them to sac a creature.

Of course they exist, but what actually shows up? I don't see Pacify and Unsummon too much where I play.

Oh wait is this supposed to be for competitive magic?

I think cryptic command has a bounce option.

 Desubot wrote:
Oh wait is this supposed to be for competitive magic?

I think cryptic command has a bounce option.

Yeah, we're talking about why Dark Depths is banned in Modern.
And I don't think anyone is going to Cryptic Command on turn 2.

mmmmm Thats true

I haddent dabbled in competitive MTG in a while (nore have i looked at the cards for a while)

But besides from force taping or straight countering the hexmage there isnt much to be done.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Exactly how many answers are there for a 20/20 Indestrucible anyway? Path to Exile is the only one I ever see, and few decks even run that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Although I think it might be better to just ban the Thopter Foundry so other decks can make use of the Sword. I may just be partial to equipment though.

I think Meek also has some broken use in some wheenie decks. Foundry doesn't really break with much else

Graveyard recursion and excess draw/peek tends to be what gets banned most. That or actual combo.

I could see some odd combo with Reveilark, or something like that.

Oh, reading up on it, Meek was the broken combo part for Sword+Foundry+Time Sieve. Infinite turns.

It also can combo at instant speed.

Modern is Wizard's baby now. They want Legacy to die, and in order for Modern to keep new blood coming in they have to make sure that combo decks don't exist. Newbies and whatnot.

Mmm, it is arguable that with a giant monster in the format, the answers would start to get played.
Is stifle modern legal? That can also stop the DD. Otherwise there is trickbind if you're on the play.
I'm also sure there are more efficient bounce spells available than unsummon. Aether Spellbomb and various Man-o-war like creatures springs to mind immediately. Echoing truth doubles as a neat trick against token strategies.
Condemn also does the trick, although your opponent does gain a boatload of life in the process.
Various repeatable "tap target permanent" effects also work nicely.

I'll give the Sword though, although both the DD and Sword/foundry/sieve are three-card combos which without some way to

But yeah, Modern is far too micromanaged for my tastes so it basically stays "Standard plus" as far as available playstyles go instead of letting it be its own format.

...

I wish Vintage was supported a little more.

I think it's hard to support vintage if they're going to keep the reserve list. Which helps absolutely no one apart from collectors that are their cards as a serious investment.

How many answers are you going to start including in your deck to deal with a 2nd turn indestructible 20/20 before it takes away from you actually winning against other decks? And one-turn two spells are not an answer to Marit Lage. It merely delays the inevitable, and sets you back a card- it's no different than chump-blocking. Your opponent doesn't just crack open the Dark Depths and stop playing either. He's going to keep laying down threats, disrupting you, and possibly searching up a second copy. Four copies of Path to Exile in your sideboard isn't going to be enough, not all decks will run white, and tailoring your sideboard to focus on disrupting one deck is suicide.

I mean they can even just Fling him in response to your removal, if you even managed to draw it in the first place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I think it's hard to support vintage if they're going to keep the reserve list. Which helps absolutely no one apart from collectors that are their cards as a serious investment.

Yeah, the reserve list is going to strangle Vintage and Legacy too eventually. Few people care enough to buy full sets of $100 lands, which WotC make no money from anyway since they're all out of print. Wizards can rake it in with Modern just by reprinting the top Modern playables(or a whole premium priced set of them).

Well, some decks only need a little time to deploy their own threats (I mean, you' don't just sit there and do nothing while they get to execute their game plan, do you?), and dedicating sideboard space to deal with specific bad matchups happens all the time. That's the whole point of a sideboard!
If you pick the right cards they can serve against other decks as well (like, say, Blood Moon, or its Magus)

Also, bouncing or otherwise neutralising Marit sets you back a card, but it cost them 2 (and a turn and a land drop) to make the token, so you're ahead of the game both in cards and tempo there.

Yep, the reserve list is a pain. It should have been abolished a long time ago.
And I say this as someone who owns practially all Vintage playable cards (I only really lack a Mox Pearl, 3 Workshop, Imperial Seal and Grim Tutor to be able to play any viable deck in the format...)

I'm not sure why they keep the reserve list, I've heard some people say that it's supposedly legally binding because previous sets were sold under the promise that the cards would not be reprinted. So the threat is that some greedy buggers would sue wizards if they abolished it. I can't see how that honestly seems a likelihood as it was a promise to the magic community and any vote to the magic community today would likely see it abolished. But wizards seem to want to stick by it after all the squealing when junk on the reserve list like Phyrexian Negator was reprinted in a duel deck. Maybe they really are worried about upsetting collectors, who knows. The older formats will die though because they badly need a supply of the land cards which won't be reprinted.

The reserve list was done during a time of uncertainty about the secondary market for magic cards. I know Mark Rosewater (head designer for Magic) has said it was a mistake, but not one they can take back. The success of Vintage Masters on MTGO shows that there is demand for the cards, but they've obligated themselves to not print them in paper, so they'll have to settle for digital versions.

I think the way around this is to make almost-functional reprints in things like commander and duel decks. Instead of Bayou that is an Swamp Forest, they can make a Mangrove Lagoon that is a Swamp Forest that causes you to reveal a card when it enters the battlefield (or whatever negligible effect that would make it not count as being identical to Bayou). I believe the pain and shock lands are a direct result of the reserve list specify functional reprints as well.

I'm not very favourably inclined towards collectors, speculators and dealers though. I think game play and format accessibility should trump card prices spiraling higher and higher and think that modern, legacy and vintage staple reprints would actually help everyone because more players puts a price floor into the secondary market. Just look at what Modern Masters did for goyf. It was reprinted, but the increased modern playerbase has had the net effect of them going up in price due to demand.

The local vintage and legacy events all allow proxies at +3$ per card per event onto the entrance fee anyway. And they only allow really good looking proxies. The end result is that an event with only 8 people can have a prize pool worth a couple hundred dollars in store credit.

Only problem with that idea is that people can use Bayou AND Mangrove Lagoon. Unless they ban Bayou and it's ilk, it would only make it worse.

Sinful Hero wrote:Only problem with that idea is that people can use Bayou AND Mangrove Lagoon. Unless they ban Bayou and it's ilk, it would only make it worse.

When this card enters the battlefield under your control, sacrifice all lands named Bayou under your control
When a card named Bayou enters the battlefield under your control, sacrifice all cards named Mangrove Lagoon under your control.

Or

If a Mangrove Lagoon and Bayou that you both own and control are on the battlefield at the same time, you lose the game.

Or (probably the easiest one)

The total number of Mangrove Lagoons and Bayous in your deck can never exceed 4.



Sort of like the opposite of that.

It's extra text to put on permanents, but it would work. Though they're probably a potential work around somehow depending on the wording.


.

Yeah that could work. Wouldn't even have to have any other "drawbacks" than that to make it different either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or "Your deck cannot contain any cards named Bayou".

People who collect reserve list cards would be pissed if the only difference between the two was the new ones said you couldn't have the old one in your deck.

*I* would love it and I'm sure people getting into the older card formats would love it as well even if the speculators and traders would take issue.

I need some of those cards, but I refuse to spend over $25 on a cardboard card.

I believe Aaron Forsythe is a vocal opponent of the Reserve List as well, but apparently it's corporate who keeps it going, not R&D.

Most people collecting reserve list cards (at least the expensive ones on the reserve list) collect them because of a love for the format they're legal in.
They would be happy to take a hit to their cardboard value if the format became more accessible. I know I wouldn't mind.
(But then, even if my P9 went down 2,000 euros overnight, I would still break even if I sold them...)

I have a strict $5 limit for a single card and $50 for a single deck budget that I stick to.

I used to just do common/uncommon block cubes to preserve my favorite limited formats and then commander decks where outside the commander, no card is more than a dollar, but since I got into budget standard, I've been willing to spend a bit more.

The current thing that's tempting me is a mono-green infect deck for modern. I think it comes to $17 for the higher priced version and as low as $5 for the ultra budget version. 4 tix for the full version on MTGO via bots.

I think the time is drawing near of my mill deck's return to modern. The allied colored fetches made me reconsider Hedron Crab and in my playtesting I'm impressed with how well they play. Still need two Polluted Deltas or Bloodstained Mires or Flooded Strands to play in FNM though.

Do enough of the modern decks use those fetches to make Archive Trap worthwhile?

Man i remember that card.

i could see it being useful but wasnt there a bunch of shuffle graveyards back into library cards in modern?

 Desubot wrote:
Man i remember that card.

i could see it being useful but wasnt there a bunch of shuffle graveyards back into library cards in modern?

Usually in the sideboard.

As for Archive Trap, if you're doing a dedicated mill deck it's usually a pretty good card. You could pair it with Ghost Quarter for those match ups where they don't use a lot of fetches. Besides burn, most decks will have a nonbasic or two, and burn is just a bad match up in general for mill.
If they don't search, you just sinkholed them.

I'm going to say that yes enough people use fetches that Archive Trap is a viable thing. I use 3 and 3 Ghost Quarters, but I feel that my opponent becomes cautious of them so I side them out.

The trap also screws over Pod to a hilarious degree, though nowadays I feel that most things gak all over Pod.

This thread is quite interesting to read as someone who stopped playing about the time of Weatherlight in the mid 90s.

I'd guess I'd be playing Legacy if I wanted to use my old cards?
Though they are not super strong, just old.

You might have some money in your old cards. There are commons and uncommons that are worth more than most rares. And while the cards that are powerful might seem like the things that should be valuable, it's actually the efficient cards that are in the most demand. I bet you could find an economical deck in some format and maybe pay for it in trade for some old cards.

If you look them up on magiccards.info, when you go into the page for each card, you should see a range of prices. The buy-list price at a dealer will be less than that, but then you'll get extra for taking store credit rather than cash. I've only heard good things about dealing with Card Kingdom and they offer 30% extra for store credit.

Who knows though? Maybe the cards you have might form the core of an existing playable deck.

Avoid StrikeZoneOnline though- they lost a pretty big order of mine before.

Alright, so my friend has a creature with Indestructible (Athreos, God of Passage) and I responded by playing Convolute (He used all his mana on casting the creature). He says since his creature has Indestructible his card instead goes back to his hand instead of to his graveyard even though I countered it.

Countering a spell has nothing to do with indestructible. Indestructible just prevents destroy effects and destruction from damage.

You can still:
Counter it before it enters the battlefield
Exile it.
Reduce it's toughness to 0 so it is put into the graveyard (cast a -x/-x spell on it that puts it below 0)
Cause the opponent to sacrifice it.

If you look up indestructible in the comprehensive rules ( http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/resources/rules/MagicCompRules_20140601.pdf ) you'll find:

702.12. Indestructible
702.12a Indestructible is a static ability.
702.12b A permanent with indestructible can’t be destroyed. Such permanents aren’t destroyed by
lethal damage, and they ignore the state-based action that checks for lethal damage (see rule 704.5g).
702.12c Multiple instances of indestructible on the same permanent are redundant.

Indestructible
A keyword ability that precludes a permanent from being destroyed. See rule 702.12.

Doesn't say anything about can't be countered (or exiled, or sacrificed, etc.,).

701.5a To counter a spell or ability means to cancel it, removing it from the stack. It doesn’t resolve
and none of its effects occur. A countered spell is put into its owner’s graveyard.

Also:

111. Spells
111.1. A spell is a card on the stack. As the first step of being cast (see rule 601, “Casting Spells”), the card becomes a spell and is moved to the top of the stack from the zone it was in, which is usually its owner’s hand. (See rule 405, “Stack.”) A spell remains on the stack as a spell until it resolves (see rule 608, “Resolving Spells and Abilities”), is countered (see rule 701.5), or otherwise leaves the stack. For more information, see section 6, “Spells, Abilities, and Effects.”

Indestructible is something a permanent has. It's not a permanent when its on the stack, it's a spell (triggered and activated abilities also go on the stack).

In order for it not be countered, it would need something like this:



Hopefully just showing your friend the hydra will be convincing enough that there's a separate ability for being immune to counter magic.

Remember though, you can't counter spells once they are permanents on the battlefield. Only while they are on the stack.

601.2a The player announces that he or she is casting the spell. That card (or that copy of a card)
moves from where it is to the stack. It becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has all the
characteristics of the card (or the copy of a card) associated with it, and that player becomes its
controller. The spell remains on the stack until it’s countered, it resolves, or an effect moves it
elsewhere.

 TimmyTheNerd wrote:
Alright, so my friend has a creature with Indestructible (Athreos, God of Passage) and I responded by playing Convolute (He used all his mana on casting the creature). He says since his creature has Indestructible his card instead goes back to his hand instead of to his graveyard even though I countered it.

Things only go back to your hand under specific circumstances that will always be stated on the relevant cards. He's just making rules up. Creatures only have abilities like indestructible when they have resolved and are on the battlefield. When you counter a spell, the creature hasn't resolved so isn't a 'creature', it's just a spell being cast. In the opposite way you can't hit a creature with a lightning strike in response to it being cast to kill it before it enters the battlefield because there's no target for the Lightning strike. You have to wait for the creature to resolve, any 'enter the battlefield' effects to occur - then you are able to lightning strike it.

Yeah as far as I know if a spell is countered it only returns to its owner's hand if the counterspell used is this:

I knew there was something I needed to see when I woke up.



Anyone else fall in love with this at first sight?

I suppose it would be neat to delve away an Akroma and swing in for four on turn two or three.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I suppose it would be neat to delve away an Akroma and swing in for four on turn two or three.

But being able to discard 4 of your own cards by T2 or 3?

 Desubot wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I suppose it would be neat to delve away an Akroma and swing in for four on turn two or three.

But being able to discard 4 of your own cards by T2 or 3?

 Desubot wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I suppose it would be neat to delve away an Akroma and swing in for four on turn two or three.

But being able to discard 4 of your own cards by T2 or 3?

Or more preferably, mill them away. Glimpse the Unthinkable, any of the one mana millers, or whatever you want to use. Although I think I'd rather just Zombify the Akroma than go to the trouble of delving for a 4/4.

I have an Ajani Silverman from the 2015 packs, if anyone would be interested in that. I don't really play, and it doesn't work with my deck really. Just PM me or whatever. No promises on being able to get it to you, but if it's worth it can you tell me if I should put it on eBay?

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I suppose it would be neat to delve away an Akroma and swing in for four on turn two or three.

But being able to discard 4 of your own cards by T2 or 3?

Or more preferably, mill them away. Glimpse the Unthinkable, any of the one mana millers, or whatever you want to use. Although I think I'd rather just Zombify the Akroma than go to the trouble of delving for a 4/4.

Yeah seems like the kinda thing that will be very difficult to actually get going on T1. the luck of milling the right cards in the right number to whip out an amazaball monster T2 is nuts. but i think he definitely could be cool in an themed deck.

 Jaxies wrote:
I have an Ajani Silverman from the 2015 packs, if anyone would be interested in that. I don't really play, and it doesn't work with my deck really. Just PM me or whatever. No promises on being able to get it to you, but if it's worth it can you tell me if I should put it on eBay?

Ajani Steadfast goes for about ~$10 if it's worth the trouble to you.

Just curious, but does anyone have any cards they would recommend for a mono white solder token edh deck? I just thought of doing it while i was rummaging around my cards in my basement, and when I came a across a whole bunch of stuff that would just be so a ton of fun to use for a deck like a soldier token deck, I can put a list of cards up that i already have in mind for the deck, in a stack, that are still in the 'yes this will be in the deck' slots, the ' possibly could toss in the deck to try out, but maybe not... and the ' most likely not....but maybe.....' slots, just a fun deck idea for edh, the commander will be odric, master tactician, the white legendary, I might make it a competitive edh deck, like my current u/w control, or it will just be a fun casual edh deck that can just blow tokens everywhere and be fun as hell to play, any ideas? or would seeing a list of possbile cards be better?'

Launch the Fleet. But you probably want to have other colours too to make a token deck, or white can make lots of spirits and humans too. Use things that buff your white or token creatures, Intangible Virtue, Honor of the Pure and Coat of Arms if you want to be really silly.

Elspeth churns out soldiers and will be cheap now she's in a duel deck next month too. Mikaeus the Lunarch, phalanx leader, True Conviction and Heliod also come to mind being useful here. There are lots of things that can produce lots of tokens or make them big, I wouldnt limit to soldiers though. Try White Suns Zenith, Entreat the Angels or Increasing Devotion.

Wizards, what are you doing? Wizards, STAHP!



You'd think they'd learn from the whole "Treasure Cruise is bonkers" deal. Guess they didn't.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:


Wizards, what are you doing? Wizards, STAHP!



You'd think they'd learn from the whole "Treasure Cruise is bonkers" deal. Guess they didn't.

You realize that by the time Khans came out, Fate Reforged had already been completed and been printed, right? They do these sets at least 6 months to a year out.

It'll be interesting to see decks that can make good use of it. Exiling itself and up to eight other cards would seem to keep it from breaking the game to me.

What's a worst case scenario?

And not every deck is going to want to take the extra turn, when 3 cards can give more access to the deck. Obviously a heavy attacking deck will like this as a one or two-of, but when the other option is comparatively 2 extra cards it's an actual thought.

Control decks want card advantage to have options in your turn, both Treasure Cruise and Temporal Tresspass have a huge cost so will drain your graveyard fast, I don't see them being used in decks together. Control decks don't need extra turns themselves because they aren't aggressive. I think Treasure Cruise has more applications, you draw more cards with Cruise than you can with an extra turn.

As a player of Standard Delve control/mid-range, I don't see myself having room for Temporal Tresspass.

This on the other hand...

Basically, Ancestral > Time Walk, especially Time Walk for UUU.

Re: Soulflayer

I feel like there is a trick to this card, and that trick is to use creatures that you can hard cast in a pinch. It may be cool to delve out Chromanticore and gain all his abilities, but if he's in your opening hand he's probably going to stay there.

The trick is to use smaller cheaper things and then delve them out. Look at this:




Flying, first strike, haste for two mana. Great deal to delve out with Soulflayer, but it can also be cast for a turn or two of battlefield damage.

Typhoid Rats/Sedge Scorpion are also good chump blockers that can give Soulflayer the useful deathtouch. And if Sylvan Caryatid ends up in your graveyard, Soulflayer can get hexproof which would be a huge bonus for him, and obviously they can instead just stay on the field and provide you with the mana boost.

I'd have to rebuild my Sultai deck almost entirely to make Soulflayer work, but a turn 3 flying, haste, first strike, deathtouch, hexproof 4/4 thanks to graveyard shenanigans sounds very appealing to me.

And if you're not interested in Standard but more of a casual player, there's always Buried Alive and Corpse Connoisseur. And Entomb, but that is still expesnive despite not really being in a tier 1 deck anymore. (Did I spell Corpse guyi right?)

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Control decks want card advantage to have options in your turn, both Treasure Cruise and Temporal Tresspass have a huge cost so will drain your graveyard fast, I don't see them being used in decks together. Control decks don't need extra turns themselves because they aren't aggressive. I think Treasure Cruise has more applications, you draw more cards with Cruise than you can with an extra turn.

Actually, Control decks want this to finish off a defenseless opponent with their finisher. Wingmate Roc and its' token definitely can help end things with this.

And allows them to tap out (-3 mana in this cse) for the big stabiliser without leaving themselves open for retaliation.
Time Walk's biggest power isn'the extra card draw, it's the extra untap step, that is true.

Wingmate Roc? In a control deck?

 Wilytank wrote:
Wingmate Roc? In a control deck?

Why not? Once upon a time Serra Angel was the premier control finisher.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:
Wingmate Roc? In a control deck?

Why not? Once upon a time Serra Angel was the premier control finisher.

If you're looking for a flyer with power >= 3 to be a finisher, you're trying to hard with using CMC 5.

Wingmate Roc is more like 6 power for 5, and is harder to remove(being there are two of them).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not to mention having a butt of 4 helps making it harder to remove as well.

And if you don't have an attacker? This is control after all.

And toughness doesn't really matter when the best removal spells have always been black.

The wouldn't run it if they couldn't activate it when they wanted. Not to mention that's single target removal- the Roc makes a 2nd copy. That means the control player is still up a card and a creature- card advantage. The Roc dodges Anger of the gods and all other 3 damage removal, and makes you waste two of any destroy creature cards.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:


Wizards, what are you doing? Wizards, STAHP!



You'd think they'd learn from the whole "Treasure Cruise is bonkers" deal. Guess they didn't.

Actually, they hotfixed that card; used to be 10U, and then they saw what Tom Cruise was doing to Magic in general and they panic mode changed it.

Alrighty folks, I have come up with another mono colored edh deck idea...... mono blue sea creatures! of course i will have the usual blue stuff like counter spells, etc, BUT, the creatures, etc, must ALL be creatures that would be ocean/water based, like fish, serpents, krakens, starfish, merfolk, crabs, sea turtles, leviathans, etc, any ideas, for what to maybe toss in? I am gonna try an make it a budget deck, since i already blew a ton of money on my other edh decks, but the commander for this mono blue deck will be thassa, god of the sea, (of course, lol), any ideas?


THANKS!

Look at the recent mono blue EDH deck that was released. That has a balance of things that slow the game down to help you get out various huge blue monsters.

I have a mono-blue Tromokratis deck. I basically go the voltron route and have lots of enchantments and equipment. I find the idea of a huge kraken wielding a Fireshrieker to be pretty funny. I have a decent amount of counter magic, some mass bounce and then the sea creatures and equipment.

It's not a top tier type deck that is going to compete with a competitive Sharoom or Zur deck or anything like that, but it's silly fun. My friends and I tend to aim for a tuned pre-con deck for our power level. So if someone gets into commander and buys one of the existing decks they can play and not feel useless. One friend doesn't like deck building and just bought all 10 of the last two sets of commander decks and just plays them as is, for example.

Well, depending on whether you want to go the weenie merfolk route or the giant sea monsters route, choices differ.

...

Although I do think that in either case you should make room for a Vodalian Illusionist. That has to be one of the greatest troll creatures ever printed.
Also, Spiny Starfish.
For big blue monsters, Grozoth seems a likely candidate

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/banned-and-restricted-announcement-2015-01-19

Pod is dead. Long live the Pod.

Glad to see the Grave-Troll unbanned. Should make for some nice dredge decks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(I kinda want the goyf banned so the prices might go down... )

Huh, didn't know grave troll was ever banned. Doesn't seem like it really warranted it.

Mostly because of the perceived power level of dredge decks plus Dread Return iirc...which is also banned.

Well. dredge decks are powerful if you aren't careful . I had this one guy beat me in like 3 turns.

And the Troll dredges for what, 6? He's a very good enabler for the decks that want him.

My mill deck shall have a new nemesis then. Thankfully, I'm loaded with these.

Ravenous Trap is a better answer since it just removes everything. Although being able to strip their deck of any remaining Narcomoeba's is certainly a bonus worth considering.

Ravenous trap/tormod's crypt would probably be sideboard material if the graveyard shenanigans are really that bad. Both cost zero, and so what if you can see one coming? If I was playing 8-Rack I would definitely consider playing both Extirpate and Surgical Extraction. Assuming you're able to get all 8, it's only 4 mana to trip them of up to 32 cards is powerful. Those also really work in B/X mill, but let's face it it's probably gonna be U/B mill because Hedron Crab and Jace's Phantasm.

Anyone got any good ideas for some cool Tiny Leaders decks, or
is TL still new to people? If so, I can give you some links!

That's true, although I can see a convoluted scenario where you cantrip into a Trap to remove your opponent's graveyard in response to some reshuffle trigger or ability or somesuch. There's quite a few of them about these days.

And a surprise hit against dredge is definitely worth it, because a good dredge player can slowroll if the Crypt is on the table forcing you to use it suboptimally.

Also 8 life is a lot for all four extirpates especially against an aggro-combo deck.

Oh, and because it just hit me: Mesmeric Orb for a mill deck does an incredible amount of work for only two mana. That is, if your opponent wants to continue attacking and casting spells.
Also comboes to self-mill you for an arbitrary amount in combination with seeker of skybreak / fatestitcher in case you want to use some graveyard shenanigans yourself.

 orkkiller21 wrote:
Anyone got any good ideas for some cool Tiny Leaders decks, or
is TL still new to people? If so, I can give you some links!

What is Tiny Leaders?

Bran Dawri wrote:
That's true, although I can see a convoluted scenario where you cantrip into a Trap to remove your opponent's graveyard in response to some reshuffle trigger or ability or somesuch. There's quite a few of them about these days.

And a surprise hit against dredge is definitely worth it, because a good dredge player can slowroll if the Crypt is on the table forcing you to use it suboptimally.

Also 8 life is a lot for all four extirpates especially against an aggro-combo deck.

If I'm running Jace's Phantasm or Consuming Aberration as an alternate win-con, exiling the whole graveyard is actually counterproductive. Removing only key pieces of it slows them down just fine. I also run some board control in the form of Geth's Verdict and Cyclonic Rift. If I had the $$$, Damnation would be in there too.

EDIT: #ReprintIntModernMastersPlz

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 orkkiller21 wrote:
Anyone got any good ideas for some cool Tiny Leaders decks, or
is TL still new to people? If so, I can give you some links!

What is Tiny Leaders?

It's a competitive 50 card edh variant with all cards being CMC 3 or less. It started at Game Knight Games in Winnipeg, MB, Canada and has been spreading quite rapidly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlCR_O9cAJU

 Wilytank wrote:
If I'm running Jace's Phantasm or Consuming Aberration as an alternate win-con, exiling the whole graveyard is actually counterproductive. Removing only key pieces of it slows them down just fine. I also run some board control in the form of Geth's Verdict and Cyclonic Rift. If I had the $$$, Damnation would be in there too.

EDIT: #ReprintIntModernMastersPlz

Fair enough. Have you considered Echoing Truth versus token strategies?

 frozenwastes wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 orkkiller21 wrote:
Anyone got any good ideas for some cool Tiny Leaders decks, or
is TL still new to people? If so, I can give you some links!

What is Tiny Leaders?

It's a competitive 50 card edh variant with all cards being CMC 3 or less. It started at Game Knight Games in Winnipeg, MB, Canada and has been spreading quite rapidly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlCR_O9cAJU

That sounds really interesting. I suppose the leader still need to be a legendary or walker under cmc 3?

Yeah. Though there are some 2/2 for 3 generic leaders to allow the various colour combinations.

Yup, tiny leaders is like a mini commander format, BUT, the cards ALL have to be 3 mana or under, even the commander, you start at 25 life, and its a 1v1 based game as well, but I would imagine people will be playing massive games with it anyways, with house rules, etc, its getting big, and i already have a pretty fun alesha deck if you wanna check it out, i will add a link

http://www.mtgvault.com/tigerknight21/decks/alesha-tiny-leaders/

Alrighty then........well, here are some helpful links to learn about Tiny Leaders with!

banned list-

http://tinyleaders.blogspot.ca/2013/09/ban-list.html

intro to format-

http://tinyleaders.blogspot.ca/2013/09/introduction-to-format.html

Comprehensive and plain text rules-

http://tinyleaders.blogspot.ca/2014/02/comprehensive-rules-v10.html

http://tinyleaders.blogspot.ca/2014/02/plain-text-rules.html

current and up to date info-

http://tinyleaders.blogspot.ca/

Or.....you cann find their facebook page, and check that out as well!

Alrighty, well, besides, tiny leaders, I have been thinking of starting my 3rd edh deck, but....with so many choices for a commander, I wasnt sure which one to roll with, so... its either between -

Shu Yun
Rakdos, lord of riots*
Riku of 2 reflections*
Lazav, dimir mastermind*
Sydri, galvanic genius
thassa god of the sea
varolz
athreos*
marath
marchesa*

Those are the main choices, but the names with the '*'s by them are my top few, marchesa is also, sort of almost number 1 on the list as well, (the names are out of order, i know) Any ideas, I dont want to go u/w, or mono white, since those are already my other edh decks, just curious if anyone had any ides, thanks!

I'm sure Rakdos would be a lot of fun.

Yeah, I have rakdos lord of riots, for the deck, but i was also still thinking of making a mono green edh, or a mono blue one, with thassa as the commander, or.....use shu yun, to make a jeskai aggro edh, so i'd probably buy the speed vs cunning dule decks set which has a lot of the stuff i need, or i could go mono blue, with arcanis the omnipotent.....hmmmm.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or maybe, i could make a mono blue edh with venser, shaper savant, and go bounce crazy wth it, etc....hmmmm....thats ounds fun...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
well, the mono blue venser idea has won, heres the prototype list coming together! any ideas?

link to the deck which is still under construction-

http://www.mtgvault.com/tigerknight21/decks/vensers-bouncy-house/

I really hate bad magic players. Namely those who are bad sports and let it affect the attitude.

/start rant
I don't deny that playing against my EDH decks isn't always the most fun. I play fairly competitively, I pretty much hold only to Black or 80+% Black decks, and all of my EDH decks have a good portion dedicated to Stax effects. Now despite this, I do keep very light with my attitude when I play; no one likes to play with the snob. It's more fun for everyone when there are laughs and good times, no matter who wins. Because of this, most players at Uni and FLGS have no issue playing with me, even if many don't have good records playing against me.

But there's this one guy who I despise because he holds grudges in between games. In games, if someone does something against him in one game, even if it's something from over a week ago, he holds it against people and then gets pissy about it, and targets only that person no matter the board state. Today was a prime example of it. He got mad when I used a Fleshbag to quickly remove an Animar from the field to stop the player from ramping into 5+ creatures in the next few turns, and it took out his one 2/2 creature with an ETB effect. He got all upset, ranting about how removal went against the game and it stops people from playing their decks. So rather than dealing with a player that if left unchecked will win handily, he focuses all of his efforts on me, for the next several games, no matter the board state. With counters no less. Player casts Kozilek for free? Nope I'll counter your Viscera Seer.

It's less of him targeting me, it's the pettiness of it to be doing it when clearly I am of no threat and he's being asinine and ignoring an actual threat.


It's also the problem of the whole "Hating removal" thing. The guy's been playing for only a year now, and has the whole "I want to turn my creatures sideways to win. Any other way isn't the right way to win" that has been present in newer and younger players, especially since Wizards implemented the Creature Power Creep in the late 2000's to counter the combo and spell power.

/rant over

Eh. There's not much to be done about it. Could always just try a different deck- castle up, or build a deck around punishing an attacker. If he's going to focus you and solely you(just to prevent you from winning), might as well make him pay for it. Might help him learn something.

I wouldn't refuse to play him. Might make you seem like a bad sport.

Is this guy also one of those TFG of the LGS scene?

Next time, try an enchantment called War Tax (at least I think it's called that) At the beginning of each turn you pay X or something, and then until your next turn, players can't attack you unless they pay X for each creature attacking.

Or, if he simply is just playing counterspells on you, try Vexing Shusher, or one of the many "Spells you control can't be countered" type things.

Either that, or sit in a way that he can't directly attack you unless he goes through one other player (attack left, defend right.)

Sinful Hero wrote:Eh. There's not much to be done about it. Could always just try a different deck- castle up, or build a deck around punishing an attacker. If he's going to focus you and solely you(just to prevent you from winning), might as well make him pay for it. Might help him learn something.

I wouldn't refuse to play him. Might make you seem like a bad sport.

My decks are potent enough on their own. Stax/Sac Engine build types aren't particularly popular with opponents. I'll just need to make it faster.

I'm not the only one who's had this problem with him, which is why a number of people don't play with him.

I have no problem of people targeting me early in a "You can be a massive threat later", but when it's "That guy has 9 creatures on the field, including 2 Eldrazi, and he can practically play most creatures for free (Animar), but I'm going to Sleep your 2 creatures this turn, and then counter your boardwipe even though I have no creatures on the field." it's fething annoying.

PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:Is this guy also one of those TFG of the LGS scene?

Either that, or sit in a way that he can't directly attack you unless he goes through one other player (attack left, defend right.)

No, he's not a TFG. He's not smart or a good enough of a player to be that. They guy that I'm usually dealing with as a threat is always able to convince him to not do anything to him, despite being the primary threat each multiplayer game.

Also, playing Mono-Black. Lots of those options not in my ability to play.

Boseiju, Who Shelters All can help your instants and sorceries that require colorless mana. Not sure how well that would work if you're saccin lands often though, but it's an option. I'm guessing you're also running some black tutors that could find it? There's also Dash Hopes...but it might be a little underpowered.

Try Painful Quandary. - 3BB

Enchantment

Whenever an opponent casts a spell, that player loses 5 life unless he or she discards a card.

Make him pay for casting spells that don't advance the game.

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:
Try Painful Quandary. - 3BB

Enchantment

Whenever an opponent casts a spell, that player loses 5 life unless he or she discards a card.

Make him pay for casting spells that don't advance the game.

One of the cards he countered actually.

I really have no issue with my deck itself, I have more issue with the petty attitude. And talking with other people, they don't like it either. It's just me ranting against bad players and creature power creep.

There's few creatures so powerful that they can't be removed in EDH, least of all by black which has various boardwipe. Blue and red can steal them, white has even more boardwipe. Big creatures are a liability afaibst blue and red, token swarms are harder to deal with.

I play a red/blue deck, blue/green counters using Vorel of the Hull Clade (which makes creatures huge and abuses +1/+1 counters) and a colourless deck with Karn. That's my fun deck as it struggles competitively having almost no sorceries.