ClockworkZion wrote: I was a little disappointed that "axe flails" are flails with axe heads on the ends of the chains.
Yeah, those are conceptually pretty weak.
Would be far better if they were flails with axe-heads instead of spiked balls at the end of the chains. As it is, the weapon seems ludicrously unwieldy.
I mean, heck...the chains are attached BELOW the axe head. There would always be the likelihood that your own chain would get in the way of the cutting edge of the axe.
To be fair, flails with axes on the end of the chains would be unwieldly and silly too, but at least we'd be going to the logical satirical conclusion of the idea.
ClockworkZion wrote: I was a little disappointed that "axe flails" are flails with axe heads on the ends of the chains.
Yeah, those are conceptually pretty weak.
Would be far better if they were flails with axe-heads instead of spiked balls at the end of the chains. As it is, the weapon seems ludicrously unwieldy.
I mean, heck...the chains are attached BELOW the axe head. There would always be the likelihood that your own chain would get in the way of the cutting edge of the axe.
To be fair, flails with axes on the end of the chains would be unwieldly and silly too, but at least we'd be going to the logical satirical conclusion of the idea.
True. It's also annoying when GW writes even more over the top inane fluff to go with the models. The WD article says Bloodwrath sometimes garottes people with the razor edged chains of his skull flails. How could he possible garrote anyone with the chains if he's holding a demonic axe in each hand? Does he sneak up behind people in the middle of a battle, drop one or both axes and hold a chain with two hands? I realize it's fantasy but it's offputting that GW prices are unaffordable for kids but the aesthetics, nomenclature and fluff are so cartoonishly over the top that they can't possibly be aimed at an adult demographic.
ClockworkZion wrote: I was a little disappointed that "axe flails" are flails with axe heads on the ends of the chains.
Yeah, those are conceptually pretty weak.
Would be far better if they were flails with axe-heads instead of spiked balls at the end of the chains. As it is, the weapon seems ludicrously unwieldy.
I mean, heck...the chains are attached BELOW the axe head. There would always be the likelihood that your own chain would get in the way of the cutting edge of the axe.
To be fair, flails with axes on the end of the chains would be unwieldly and silly too, but at least we'd be going to the logical satirical conclusion of the idea.
Dwarves beat Chaos to that one with the Doomseekers:
ClockworkZion wrote: I was a little disappointed that "axe flails" are flails with axe heads on the ends of the chains.
Yeah, those are conceptually pretty weak.
Would be far better if they were flails with axe-heads instead of spiked balls at the end of the chains. As it is, the weapon seems ludicrously unwieldy.
I mean, heck...the chains are attached BELOW the axe head. There would always be the likelihood that your own chain would get in the way of the cutting edge of the axe.
To be fair, flails with axes on the end of the chains would be unwieldly and silly too, but at least we'd be going to the logical satirical conclusion of the idea.
Dwarves beat Chaos to that one with the Doomseekers:
See? Silly. That said still cooler than that new model in execution.
Of course they were. What an original way to conclude the denouement of the Warhammer Fantasy world.
-C6
The beginning of Games Workshop slashing off half the Warhammer range and making it so any unit can be used in any army to boost sales.
I don't think they're going that far.
Not even the Bubblehammer rumor claimed that big of a loss for the game.
I can't see how GW would keep all the kits and models in stock for all of the current factions and make WHFB profitable again. I thought one of the issues was that the cost of manufacturing and stocking everything wasn't justified by the sales. If they're not going to support all of the existing models then I can't see GW keeping profiles for those models in the rules because they'll be profiles without official current models which I thought GW wasn't going to do anymore in the aftermath of the ChapterHouse lawsuit. Lack of support for existing models/ranges is going to led to a de facto elimination of those models from the game eventually.
Well guys, I think we just wiped the party.... re roll some new characters
Also - funny enough while I read that above part I was listening to the doors.... which of course led me to listen too....
Spoiler:
We love you Warhammer.... we shall see....
"At one point Jim said to me during the recording session, and he was tearful, and he shouted in the studio, 'Does anybody understand me?' And I said yes, I do, and right then and there we got into a long discussion and Jim just kept saying over and over kill the father, feth the mother, and essentially boils down to this, kill all those things in yourself which are instilled in you and are not of yourself, they are alien concepts which are not yours, they must die. feth the mother is very basic, and it means get back to essence, what is reality, what is, feth the mother is very basically mother, mother-birth, real, you can touch it, it's nature, it can't lie to you. So what Jim says at the end of the Oedipus section, which is essentially the same thing that the classic says, kill the alien concepts, get back reality, the end of alien concepts, the beginning of personal concepts."
Games workshop is pulling a Jim Morrison here guys, they are going back to the womb and starting anew.
H.B.M.C. wrote: They say a picture speaks a thousand words. In this instance, every one of those thousand words is "blood".
Hey, you actually said something legitimately funny! *golf claps*
Anyways, End Times:
From the internets:
Spoiler:
And a story spoiler from Warseer:
adicto wrote:
Spoiler:
Ungrim and the dwarfs defend Avenheim thanks to Gelt’s Crucible but, in the end, they sacrifice themselves while imperials and bretonnians flee. Ungrim’s slayers fight against Zhufbar’s hosts.
Nagash offers Mannfred to the elves as a sing of good will, snaring him in a prison made of death magic.
Be’lakor frees Mannfred and tells him the truth about Lileath. He is later found by Jerrod (Be’lakor’s plan all the time) and tells him the truth about Lileath. Jerrod lets Mannfred live, who then flees and calls her. She admits the truth, saying that she is the Lady of the Lake, and also that she pushed Bretonnia out of the Stone Age and saved them from the greenskins and themselves. She says that she won’t ask for forgiveness, because the sacrifice of Bretonnia was needed to create the Haven. Then Be’lakor appears when Jerrod is about to kill her. They both fight and the demon defeats Jerrod (but does not kill him), and turns to kill Lileath, but Malekith and Tyrion pop out and trap Be’lakor.
Jerrod returns to his people and tells them about the Lady. They decide not to fight alongside the treacherous elves, returning to Bretonnia. No more is known of them.
After the fall of Averheim, the Incarnates face the daemonic host. The battle is hopeless, so Lileath sacrifices willingly to Teclis in order to give him the needed power to move them to Middenheim. A titanic battle takes place there, and the incarnates travel to the caverns located beneath the city, where Archaon, the Swords of Chaos, and the 4 greater daemons with their respective hosts are waiting. Grimgor fights Arachaon and almost defeats him, but Archaon manages to kill the orc. Then Archaon faces Sigmar, the Emperor, who after a long battle defeats him, throwing him inside a rift created by the Old Ones’ artifact that the chaos guys activated to destroy the world. The surviving Incarnates, aided by Teclis (who now holds the winds of Fire and Beasts), try to close the rift. They could have succeeded, but Mannfred betrays his master (Nagash) killing Gelt. Teclis tries to absorb the wind of Metal, but fails and dies, so the rift feeds on them and sucks out all the Incarnate’s powers. Archaon appears again, climbing out of the rift, and faces SIgmar one more time. They both are last seen fighting against each other, with Ghal-Maraz being held by Archaon as Sigmar tried to smash him. Meanwhile, Malekith saves Alarielle from being crushed by debris, and then she and Tyrion turn their backs and walk away while the Eternity King dies in pain, with his legs crushed. They both look back at the growing rift while the darkness swallows them.
It pisses me off that we can get new characters like this but the 5 Chaos Champions for 40k don't get new models.
I'd be with you there, but then given the current run of character models, do you want an even more ridiculous Abaddon for twice the price?
I'm more annoyed that characters without models disappear from 40k altogether and yet they can crap out half a dozen for something like this as though it were candy.
Eldarain wrote: You'll love Unbound no matter what. Battle forged removed in 8th?
I don't mind Unbound for narrative reasons, and I get what they're trying to do, but holy waffles that's kinda nuts. I mean they took more than just the FOC limits off. Now you can have an entire army backed by BSBs.
Ungrim and the dwarfs defend Avenheim thanks to Gelt’s Crucible but, in the end, they sacrifice themselves while imperials and bretonnians flee. Ungrim’s slayers fight against Zhufbar’s hosts.
Nagash offers Mannfred to the elves as a sing of good will, snaring him in a prison made of death magic.
Be’lakor frees Mannfred and tells him the truth about Lileath. He is later found by Jerrod (Be’lakor’s plan all the time) and tells him the truth about Lileath. Jerrod lets Mannfred live, who then flees and calls her. She admits the truth, saying that she is the Lady of the Lake, and also that she pushed Bretonnia out of the Stone Age and saved them from the greenskins and themselves. She says that she won’t ask for forgiveness, because the sacrifice of Bretonnia was needed to create the Haven. Then Be’lakor appears when Jerrod is about to kill her. They both fight and the demon defeats Jerrod (but does not kill him), and turns to kill Lileath, but Malekith and Tyrion pop out and trap Be’lakor.
Jerrod returns to his people and tells them about the Lady. They decide not to fight alongside the treacherous elves, returning to Bretonnia. No more is known of them.
After the fall of Averheim, the Incarnates face the daemonic host. The battle is hopeless, so Lileath sacrifices willingly to Teclis in order to give him the needed power to move them to Middenheim. A titanic battle takes place there, and the incarnates travel to the caverns located beneath the city, where Archaon, the Swords of Chaos, and the 4 greater daemons with their respective hosts are waiting. Grimgor fights Arachaon and almost defeats him, but Archaon manages to kill the orc. Then Archaon faces Sigmar, the Emperor, who after a long battle defeats him, throwing him inside a rift created by the Old Ones’ artifact that the chaos guys activated to destroy the world. The surviving Incarnates, aided by Teclis (who now holds the winds of Fire and Beasts), try to close the rift. They could have succeeded, but Mannfred betrays his master (Nagash) killing Gelt. Teclis tries to absorb the wind of Metal, but fails and dies, so the rift feeds on them and sucks out all the Incarnate’s powers. Archaon appears again, climbing out of the rift, and faces SIgmar one more time. They both are last seen fighting against each other, with Ghal-Maraz being held by Archaon as Sigmar tried to smash him. Meanwhile, Malekith saves Alarielle from being crushed by debris, and then she and Tyrion turn their backs and walk away while the Eternity King dies in pain, with his legs crushed. They both look back at the growing rift while the darkness swallows them.
Game Over.
Okay, I've taken a bit of time after reading this to just sit and think over it all rather than typing out a 10,000 thesis on why this is the stupidest thing ever.
But here's what it boils down to:
What now?
Not the broader question of WHFB and future editions and the fluff, that ship said years ago. This is the fact that they have torn apart the entire Warhammer world, and have the gall to not immediately release a new edition and are holding an End Times-themed event for the Throne of Skulls tournament, for something which is already dead and buried. For the next three or more months they've set fans adrift, probably stymying all Warhammer-related Black Library releases while they do so (unless there's an actual resolution to Gotrek and Felix). So the players are left twiddling their thumbs waiting for the next thing to happen, as always, expecting the worst given the horrendous end to it all.
Warhammer Fantasy isn't a weekly kid's cartoon where next week we'll see the thrilling conclusion; it's a book fire you pay to watch.
EDIT: The only comfort I can take, is that for the last game of 8th edition, I can potentially take as may of Bugman's Rangers as I want.
It's quite possible they feel they need to let the dust settle on this and people get a chance to play out the End Times on their own before the new edition drops. Sure it'd be nice to see something drop next month, but if they don't do that, then letting it stand, people play it and them to finish whatever print runs or what have you they need to do for the next fantasy release isn't wrong.
I'm not saying I wouldn't prefer to see it sooner rather than later, but at the same time I understand if they decide to give it some breathing room and let the dust settle a little bit before they drop the new edition with it's expensive rulebook on us.
ClockworkZion wrote: I'm not saying I wouldn't prefer to see it sooner rather than later, but at the same time I understand if they decide to give it some breathing room and let the dust settle a little bit before they drop the new edition with it's expensive rulebook on us.
Oh, it'll be a doozy alright.
You can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter.
It's only the end of WFB in it's current form. It's not going away yet.
The setting...gone.
The armies...gone.
Will they make similar armies for this new beginning? Probably. So fething what? Everyone and everything that you liked in your army's backstory? Gone. All the characters? Dead, except this one guy.
It's a huge crap sandwich, but they forgot the bread and the fixins.
It's only the end of WFB in it's current form. It's not going away yet.
The setting...gone.
The armies...gone.
Will they make similar armies for this new beginning? Probably. So fething what? Everyone and everything that you liked in your army's backstory? Gone. All the characters? Dead, except this one guy.
It's a huge crap sandwich, but they forgot the bread and the fixins.
Yes, because GW is going to dump millions of pounds of inventory with no plan.
The last line of the last page makes it quite clear that we're not seeing a true end, but rather the start of something new, and considering they have a LOT of fantasy stuff (and no sign of anything being put on a massive clearance sale) my money is that the setting and armies are only changed not squatted.
You're drawing conclusions about something that hasn't coming out yet and we don't know what 9th is really going to entail yet.
It's highly likely that GW won't come to your house and tear up your rulebooks.
I also find it unlikely so many new models and units would be released only to be completely dropped a couple months later.
I don't think much, if any of Warhammer is actually going away, and what is going away is probably going to be limited to the dead SCs (maybe) and Finecast (as this is the best time to prune a lot of that out). Outside of that combined army books that allow you to play a faction on it's own or as a part of a larger faction seems pretty plausible if the End Times books are anything to go on.
Assumptions that the game is completely dead seem rather premature in my opinion.
I wonder if this WHFB Unbound concept is a way to push out remaining levels of miniatures they don't want to keep producing ("hey, run all those...ahem, resin special units to really forge that narrative!")
Although I'm also guessing they'll have a big limited-time-only on whatever they cut so they can see if the collector audience will buy up what's left.
I said it before and will say it again, I am directly calling the people who said that GW are squatting any of the armies in fantasy, liars, they are telling lies to boost clicks or whatever to their websites, I know GW can be dim, but dropping the near entire fantasy range, bull.
Vent over, as to a new setting that uses the current range and updates them slowly I can see.
Yeah, definitely occurred to me too. I am very curious to see where they take this. And very sad that I bought new Wood Elves and Citadel Woods this past summer... It feels like a swindle to me:
"Here, buy this new range of Wood Elves models, that you have been waiting for for a decade! Oops! Now their entire universe is gone! Psych!"
How could it not be bad if the entire "Old World" just got swallowed up into a Chaos vortex?
I mean, I'd like it to not be that bad. But it feels pretty bad...
It would be bad if the game was actually killed, but I think we're more likely to see a tweaked version of WFB coming out of this where it's similar, but not identical.
Wood Elves get crapped on for Magic Banners to begin with. One of the few armies in the game with a Special unit(Wildwood Rangers) that can only take 25 pts for a Magic Banner.
And what in the hell is up with the overcosted nonsense that is the Banner of the Hunter King?
ClockworkZion wrote: It would be bad if the game was actually killed, but I think we're more likely to see a tweaked version of WFB coming out of this where it's similar, but not identical.
Really? You really see them launching 9th edition with, "and then the last hero in the void used his super awesome magic power to fix everything, and it went back to (almost) exactly the way it was before. Have fun!" That's a serious comic book level retcon to pull on your fanbase.
ClockworkZion wrote: It would be bad if the game was actually killed, but I think we're more likely to see a tweaked version of WFB coming out of this where it's similar, but not identical.
Really? You really see them launching 9th edition with, "and then the last hero in the void used his super awesome magic power to fix everything, and it went back to (almost) exactly the way it was before. Have fun!" That's a serious comic book level retcon to pull on your fanbase.
Not exactly. I see 9th being birthed from what the person knew, but it not playing out the same way. Like the rumors of mixed factions.
Well, if our one lonely special snowflake hero does end up being Draigo coming out the other end of Chaos, who knows what the guy is capable of at that point?
Plus I thought whatever we see in 9th is going to be some time after... time ended. Like centuries and stuff. Good chance for new fluff to start, especially with all the aftermath of what's occurred and how the various factions plan on rebuilding.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Well, if our one lonely special snowflake hero does end up being Draigo coming out the other end of Chaos, who knows what the guy is capable of at that point?
Plus I thought whatever we see in 9th is going to be some time after... time ended. Like centuries and stuff. Good chance for new fluff to start, especially with all the aftermath of what's occurred and how the various factions plan on rebuilding.
Considering the talk about other worlds, I'd say at most the world ended, but not the whole universe.
And even that isn't something that is automatically the end of everything.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Well, if our one lonely special snowflake hero does end up being Draigo coming out the other end of Chaos, who knows what the guy is capable of at that point?
Plus I thought whatever we see in 9th is going to be some time after... time ended. Like centuries and stuff. Good chance for new fluff to start, especially with all the aftermath of what's occurred and how the various factions plan on rebuilding.
An excellent opportunity to squat half of them! Jolly good!
But seriously.
Even though it's 'nice' that GW decided to advance the storyline a bit some of their literary techniques leave a lot to be desired. You know, like sending the faction bred to fight chaos and protect the work of the Old Ones off into space in magic bubbles. You know, after their astrology based culture and religion somehow failed to notice a moon getting closer.
I feel there was a lot....left out. It was surprising lacklustre. Factions got ignored, sidelined or crappy little mentions while characters from 3 editions ago got more mention and focus.
Here's what I personally believe happens since they failed to mention him at all in Thanquol.
The world ends. Everyone suffers a heroic killing blow.
Gor-Rok rolls a 2+, only takes 1 wound and survives.
GW have their minds blown and WFB ends up in permanent limbo because their focus was on 'Insert Special Character from 3 editions ago' and 'Insert Special Character We Made Up Just For This'.
Thing is if the last person left (Alive) is Sigmar or an elf - why would they bring back anything other than their own people's
so the Elf brings back the Elves, Dragons, Tree spirits and that's about it?
Sigmar would bring back the humans and dwarves and that's about it?
Neither of the above would bring back Orcs, Skaven, beastmen etc? Why would they? Doubt Sigmar would bring back Elves et el and can't see the Elves bringing back either humans or Dwarves?
You know, like sending the faction bred to fight chaos and protect the work of the Old Ones off into space in magic bubbles.
I think the point was that the war was lost and it was head for the lifeboats.....
You know, after their astrology based culture and religion somehow failed to notice a moon getting closer.
They did notice and they held it back for a good long time - then they failed - the Slaan have been holding together a increasingly fragmented world and plan for millennia - growing weaker and smaller in number - at some point they were always going to fracture and fail.
I liked the acknowledgments of really old lore - I don't always like where some of it went but it was nice to see the names and references.
I have a vain hope that they will carry on the "Time of Legends books" as I really wanted to read the 3rd Book of "Blood of Nagash"
Also a bit worried about the completely unbound army selection. Even 5th edition WFB had some limitations to it. This just seems....ominous.
I mean, I can see the perks for themes and the like...but you'll get the power gamers out in force with Broken Unit X. Hence why Unbound for 40k didn't work so well in a competitive setting.
Kanluwen wrote: Y'know, I'm actually okay with the multiple BSBs.
Wood Elves get crapped on for Magic Banners to begin with. One of the few armies in the game with a Special unit(Wildwood Rangers) that can only take 25 pts for a Magic Banner.
And what in the hell is up with the overcosted nonsense that is the Banner of the Hunter King?
Hey, at least you actually have Magic Banners.
Us Daemons on the other hand... we're the only army in the entire game who don't even have a single Magic Banner of our own! All we get are the crappy BRB ones.
If 9th at the very least invalidates & removes our current piece of fecal matter excuse of an army book, then it's a success! No other army right now is as boring & outright frustrating to play as Daemons.
ClockworkZion wrote: I was a little disappointed that "axe flails" are flails with axe heads on the ends of the chains.
Yeah, those are conceptually pretty weak.
Would be far better if they were flails with axe-heads instead of spiked balls at the end of the chains. As it is, the weapon seems ludicrously unwieldy.
I mean, heck...the chains are attached BELOW the axe head. There would always be the likelihood that your own chain would get in the way of the cutting edge of the axe.
To be fair, flails with axes on the end of the chains would be unwieldly and silly too, but at least we'd be going to the logical satirical conclusion of the idea.
Dwarves beat Chaos to that one with the Doomseekers:
See? Silly. That said still cooler than that new model in execution.
The Doomseeker axes were actually what I had in mind.
They'd be a little less ludicrous from a utility standpoint if the axe heads were four-bladed where the head was effectively two axe heads perpendicular to one another.
It's only the end of WFB in it's current form. It's not going away yet.
The setting...gone.
The armies...gone.
Will they make similar armies for this new beginning? Probably. So fething what? Everyone and everything that you liked in your army's backstory? Gone. All the characters? Dead, except this one guy.
It's a huge crap sandwich, but they forgot the bread and the fixins.
Yes, because GW is going to dump millions of pounds of inventory with no plan.
The last line of the last page makes it quite clear that we're not seeing a true end, but rather the start of something new, and considering they have a LOT of fantasy stuff (and no sign of anything being put on a massive clearance sale) my money is that the setting and armies are only changed not squatted.
You're drawing conclusions about something that hasn't coming out yet and we don't know what 9th is really going to entail yet.
They have done it before so yeah they will do it again.
And that Goblin Hewer was great compared to Mcrotty Mcrotterson OR BLOOD DEATHAXESKULL AXERFLLAILWHIPPYWHIP
WHFB might be getting a revamp, but I'm inclined to believe that it'll be more like the 40K revamp than people think.
Unbound, yeah, 40K got it.
Allies, yeah, 40K got them.
Allies that don't make any sense whatsoever like 'Come the Apocalypse' allies, 40K got them.
Superheroes, superheavies, whatever, 40K got them.
Fortifications, castles, other random crap, 40K got them.
If GW while doing all of the above, actually makes the rules of the game better than what they are now, the game will be far from dead, it'll get resurrected. Players will just decide which of the above they will use in competitive games.
In short, I don't believe the 'WHFB will be small scale' crap at all. Not one bit. If anything I believe the exact opposite and they want it to be even more large scale than before. Huge monsters and huge armies of entire collections of models. WHFB Apocalypse, aka current 40K.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Well, if our one lonely special snowflake hero does end up being Draigo coming out the other end of Chaos, who knows what the guy is capable of at that point?
Plus I thought whatever we see in 9th is going to be some time after... time ended. Like centuries and stuff. Good chance for new fluff to start, especially with all the aftermath of what's occurred and how the various factions plan on rebuilding.
Considering the talk about other worlds, I'd say at most the world ended, but not the whole universe.
And even that isn't something that is automatically the end of everything.
When the world is an integral part of the setting, yes it is.
We're not talking about the equivalent of the old philosophical conundrum about the broom here(if you replace this bit and that bit of a broom over many years as they break or wear out until eventually none of the original parts remain, is it still the same broom?), we're talking about breaking the broom in half over your knee, stomping up and down on the remains until they're splinters, burning the splinters, then going out and buying a hoover. Yes, you still technically possess a device for cleaning your floor, but trying to pretend it's even remotely the same is the height of sophistry.
Is it bad that it was still better designed and done than the current End Times AXES ON CHAINS OF BLOOD MCBLOODBLOOD BLOOD?
I also like how Slaanesh and Tzeentch sort of took their holidays before the End Times though. Makes me kind of sad we won't see the love for them.
GW's thinking on Chaos is so one-dimensionally "Chaos must be evil! Chaos must destroy everything!"* that they crafted a plot and conclusion that has no room for silly things like pleasure and hope. Tzeentch and Slaanesh have nothing to gain whatsoever from completely destroying a world, so I guess GW just didn't bother addressing it at all, putting their hands over their ears and saying "The chaos gods all wanted this! Why? Lalala I can't hear you!"
*so one dimensionally evil that even friggin' Nagash is teaming up with the good guys at the end.
*so one dimensionally evil that even friggin' Nagash is teaming up with the good guys at the end.
Evil is such a weak concept to begin with. Evil doesn't really even exist. Hunger for power over others, wealth, immortality, all of that is understandable for a sane person. Even psychopaths that murder for the sake of murdering have a reason they're doing it -- A mental illness, a trauma that caused them to in fact go crazy and do something that doesn't benefit them or anyone else in any way. They're in fact dysfunctional, antisocial and mentally handicapped people, and there's neuroscience that proves it. Good and evil are just names people used for behaviour they can't explain in more scientific and accurate means.
Chaos Gods on the other hand are like babies in a sandbox who just randomly throw their toys around, and now in the storyline we're witnessing a tantrum where they just stomp over all the sand castles they've built. Next I think they'll start crying and looking at mommy and wondering what happens next. That's the only way I can rationalise the behaviour of these fictional 'Chaos Gods'.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Well, if our one lonely special snowflake hero does end up being Draigo coming out the other end of Chaos, who knows what the guy is capable of at that point?
Plus I thought whatever we see in 9th is going to be some time after... time ended. Like centuries and stuff. Good chance for new fluff to start, especially with all the aftermath of what's occurred and how the various factions plan on rebuilding.
Considering the talk about other worlds, I'd say at most the world ended, but not the whole universe.
And even that isn't something that is automatically the end of everything.
When the world is an integral part of the setting, yes it is.
We're not talking about the equivalent of the old philosophical conundrum about the broom here(if you replace this bit and that bit of a broom over many years as they break or wear out until eventually none of the original parts remain, is it still the same broom?), we're talking about breaking the broom in half over your knee, stomping up and down on the remains until they're splinters, burning the splinters, then going out and buying a hoover. Yes, you still technically possess a device for cleaning your floor, but trying to pretend it's even remotely the same is the height of sophistry.
Exactly. At the end of the book, they explicitly destroyed everything. Every character, every army, every living thing in the Warhammer world is dead. For them to bring back any of the current kits, they have to engage in a serious erasure of what they've just written.
In a way, it makes sense. One of the rumors for this new edition is that they'll be implementing short-run, limited edition kits that will only be available for a short time and then gone forever. What if the End Times kits are the first of these?
They certainly lost a lot of their nuance over the years. Nurgle was never originally just about disease, he was also about hope.
Khorne went from being a martial god to KILLMAIMBURNBLOOD BLOODAXEWHIPCHAIN and lost any kind of subtlty at all.
Slaanesh no doubt made the PR guys trying to sell plasticrack to kids uncomfortable.
Tzeentch, well how do you represent twistyness and long term conspiracy on the tabletop when Lord Commander Chainaxe McBloodsplatter is wandering around spweing skulls everywhere.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Well, if our one lonely special snowflake hero does end up being Draigo coming out the other end of Chaos, who knows what the guy is capable of at that point?
Plus I thought whatever we see in 9th is going to be some time after... time ended. Like centuries and stuff. Good chance for new fluff to start, especially with all the aftermath of what's occurred and how the various factions plan on rebuilding.
Considering the talk about other worlds, I'd say at most the world ended, but not the whole universe.
And even that isn't something that is automatically the end of everything.
When the world is an integral part of the setting, yes it is.
We're not talking about the equivalent of the old philosophical conundrum about the broom here(if you replace this bit and that bit of a broom over many years as they break or wear out until eventually none of the original parts remain, is it still the same broom?), we're talking about breaking the broom in half over your knee, stomping up and down on the remains until they're splinters, burning the splinters, then going out and buying a hoover. Yes, you still technically possess a device for cleaning your floor, but trying to pretend it's even remotely the same is the height of sophistry.
Exactly. At the end of the book, they explicitly destroyed everything. Every character, every army, every living thing in the Warhammer world is dead. For them to bring back any of the current kits, they have to engage in a serious erasure of what they've just written.
In a way, it makes sense. One of the rumors for this new edition is that they'll be implementing short-run, limited edition kits that will only be available for a short time and then gone forever. What if the End Times kits are the first of these?
If they release WHFB 9Ed and just dismiss the End Times like they did Storm of Chaos and leave the game relatively unchanged then I think that would almost be worse than just destroying the game and starting over completely new.
How many people though play the game and read non of the fluff? I have not read a single book... Still enjoy the game. I would imagine its like that for alot of people as well, not all but I bet alot. Old world, new world, no world.. Wouldnt change anything really.
Congratulations, I have just spat my drink all over my nice sofa, you sir owe me a damn new sofa!
Oh, I'm also claiming this for my sig, thanks
Then the Changer of Ways plan is complete. Another liquid-based victory for Chaos.
Chopxsticks wrote: How many people though play the game and read non of the fluff? I have not read a single book... Still enjoy the game. I would imagine its like that for alot of people as well, not all but I bet alot. Old world, new world, no world.. Wouldnt change anything really.
Thats like some of the guys I play Bolt Action with who know nothing about WW2. Its depressing is what that is.
Kanluwen wrote: I must have missed the time where GW cut a huge number of their new plastic kits.
Because according to the lists that have been thrown out as part of this whole 9th edition rumor, that's what is happening.
They cut a lot of metals, its kinda the same. They have shown they will just dump stock instead of putting it in a sale.
Same with Specialist Games. Do you remember the Massive withdrawal of stock during 2nd and 3rd 40k and the corresponding Warhammer.
They've shown they will cut ranges and entire games simply because they feel like it. From what I have come to understand Warhammer 9th will be Warband based. Maybe a big hero, or 2 and some core guys, maybe a " big kit as support" but yeah... its Going this way.
Is it bad that it was still better designed and done than the current End Times AXES ON CHAINS OF BLOOD MCBLOODBLOOD BLOOD?
I also like how Slaanesh and Tzeentch sort of took their holidays before the End Times though. Makes me kind of sad we won't see the love for them.
GW's thinking on Chaos is so one-dimensionally "Chaos must be evil! Chaos must destroy everything!"* that they crafted a plot and conclusion that has no room for silly things like pleasure and hope. Tzeentch and Slaanesh have nothing to gain whatsoever from completely destroying a world, so I guess GW just didn't bother addressing it at all, putting their hands over their ears and saying "The chaos gods all wanted this! Why? Lalala I can't hear you!"
*so one dimensionally evil that even friggin' Nagash is teaming up with the good guys at the end.
Or Tzeentch knew this was coming, and simply waited, knowing Franz would survive to try to recreate the world, letting Tzeentch have fun with all the recreation and new dynamics, while Slaanesh enjoyed the self-destructive phase and is now going to join Tzeentch in all this new creation and new life. Helps that they are in opposition to Nurgle and Khorne, it would let the first two have their fun destroying the Old World, and the other two get some time in the spotlight in the new world with 9th edition.
Franz recreates what he can of the old world, but Tzeentch corrupts those plans, causing much of the old stuff to be lost and the new world to be in disarray. Slaanesh is enjoying all the new sensations and corruption.
Bein a new world, war and decay have not had time to really gain a foothold, putting Khorne and Nurgle on a weaker footing for now.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Well, if our one lonely special snowflake hero does end up being Draigo coming out the other end of Chaos, who knows what the guy is capable of at that point?
Plus I thought whatever we see in 9th is going to be some time after... time ended. Like centuries and stuff. Good chance for new fluff to start, especially with all the aftermath of what's occurred and how the various factions plan on rebuilding.
Considering the talk about other worlds, I'd say at most the world ended, but not the whole universe.
And even that isn't something that is automatically the end of everything.
When the world is an integral part of the setting, yes it is.
We're not talking about the equivalent of the old philosophical conundrum about the broom here(if you replace this bit and that bit of a broom over many years as they break or wear out until eventually none of the original parts remain, is it still the same broom?), we're talking about breaking the broom in half over your knee, stomping up and down on the remains until they're splinters, burning the splinters, then going out and buying a hoover. Yes, you still technically possess a device for cleaning your floor, but trying to pretend it's even remotely the same is the height of sophistry.
Exactly. At the end of the book, they explicitly destroyed everything. Every character, every army, every living thing in the Warhammer world is dead. For them to bring back any of the current kits, they have to engage in a serious erasure of what they've just written.
In a way, it makes sense. One of the rumors for this new edition is that they'll be implementing short-run, limited edition kits that will only be available for a short time and then gone forever. What if the End Times kits are the first of these?
If they release WHFB 9Ed and just dismiss the End Times like they did Storm of Chaos and leave the game relatively unchanged then I think that would almost be worse than just destroying the game and starting over completely new.
It really, really, really, really, really, really wouldn't.
Kanluwen wrote: There is a difference between the cost of metal molds and plastic molds.
And to pretend as well that "dumping stock instead of putting it in a sale" is exclusive to GW is silly.
Where did i claim it was exclusive? its not they USED to have sales. you said they don't have a habit of dumping kits i proved otherwise.
I love how you focus in on the second part.
YOU are the one who brought up "dumping stock", sales and other nonsense. That is not the same as cutting down the range.
The rumors that we are getting right now are that huge swathes of the Fantasy range are not simply having "dumped stock", but rather being cut entirely from existence. No replacements(which is when they usually DESTROY stock, not dump it) to be had, just genericized nonsense.
It's entirely beyond the pale to think that kits like the Treeman Ancient, the new Verminlords, the Mortarchs, etc are going to be cut from existence. Especially when we're also talking about two kits for Wood Elves(Wild Riders/Sisters of the Thorn and Eternal Guard/Wildwood Rangers) that just got put as mandatory stock for independents also being on that list of kits that are going to be discontinued/destroyed within the next few months.
Kanluwen wrote: There is a difference between the cost of metal molds and plastic molds.
And to pretend as well that "dumping stock instead of putting it in a sale" is exclusive to GW is silly.
What is exclusive to GW is dumping stock instead of first putting it on sale to attempt to get something out of it.
Yeah, let's put army books on sale! That's totally helpful!
The only real argument for them to put things on sale is when we're talking about really old models like the current Eldar range. The majority of the other items(such as metals) are still priced lower than the equivalent resin/plastic model--and generally they'll still be available up until the new items actually go up for sale.
Kanluwen wrote: There is a difference between the cost of metal molds and plastic molds.
And to pretend as well that "dumping stock instead of putting it in a sale" is exclusive to GW is silly.
What is exclusive to GW is dumping stock instead of first putting it on sale to attempt to get something out of it.
Also I am not sure where everyone is getting the idea that they have dropped a fortune in making molds, there all made internally by staff on the company payroll using there own machines, so the only additional cost when making the molds is materials and the time spent making a whfb mold when they could be making some kind of space marine
Kanluwen wrote: There is a difference between the cost of metal molds and plastic molds.
And to pretend as well that "dumping stock instead of putting it in a sale" is exclusive to GW is silly.
Where did i claim it was exclusive? its not they USED to have sales. you said they don't have a habit of dumping kits i proved otherwise.
I love how you focus in on the second part.
YOU are the one who brought up "dumping stock", sales and other nonsense. That is not the same as cutting down the range.
The rumors that we are getting right now are that huge swathes of the Fantasy range are not simply having "dumped stock", but rather being cut entirely from existence. No replacements(which is when they usually DESTROY stock, not dump it) to be had, just genericized nonsense.
It's entirely beyond the pale to think that kits like the Treeman Ancient, the new Verminlords, the Mortarchs, etc are going to be cut from existence. Especially when
Why would i argue on a point when your right but if I must they've dumped plastic kits before they have i just didnt feel like correcting you but fine.
Space dwarves - a plastic kit. Dumped, Space marines original plastic kit guess what??? dumped replaced by metals and then eventually plastic kits, ork battle wagon, Dumped,? replaced years later ( i think it was like over a decade but if i must ill look it up. )
but we will see whos right wont we me somebody whos seen 3 decades of this or you. I'm honestly too old for this I'm sorry oh defender of the great and fantastic Mr Kirby and the board... can you leave me alone now?
They used to produce specialist games they cut it, the Necromunda bulkheads were plastic as were the goliath and other gang whos name which escapes me as were the plastic orks for Gorkamorka
They used to make a range for Lotr back in the 80s as well as Judge Dredd and dr who stuff all gone...
limited kits stuff that was dumped for storm of chaos the dwarf doomseekers ( which i missed getting), lustria (limited setting) the Vampire pirates bag and those are just off the top of my head and ill give you the second one as it was just 2 other kits combined but still. Used to be sold for a limited time then not.
lets also not forget the seeker chariot that was out that was 2 kits in 1 box for like 3/4 of the price. you can still make it if you buy 2 chariots i guess... but still plastic box ltd edition.
I absolutely LOVE when people try to bring the whole "I've been around for longer than you!" card into this.
LOTR, Judge Dredd, and Dr. Who stuff was all done under license. Did you really expect them to continue selling it without the license?
And quite frankly, what you do not seem to grasp is that all of the examples you gave(barring the Squats) were replaced. Whether they were replaced by a metal or a plastic kit or a macaroni and cheese do it yourself kit, they got a replacement(unless they were Squats).
The rumors, again, are that a significant number of plastic kits are not being "dumped "to get replaced--they're just flatout getting DUMPED.
Eternal Guard/Wildwood Rangers and Wild Riders/Sisters of the Thorn were put onto the mandatory stockist list, purportedly, and both kits have also been mentioned as two of the kits to vanish when this forthcoming edition hits.
So please, put the whole "you young whippersnapper"(for the record? I've been into WHFB since 1997, when I was 10 years old. I have seen plenty of how the current GW) attitude aside and try using a bit of critical thinking.
migooo wrote:limited kits stuff that was dumped for storm of chaos the dwarf doomseekers ( which i missed getting), lustria (limited setting) the Vampire pirates bag and those are just off the top of my head and ill give you the second one as it was just 2 other kits combined but still. Used to be sold for a limited time then not.
The Sartosan Vampire Pirate was still up for sale as of last year. He's actually in some of the photos that just got leaked from "Archaon", so I would not be surprised to see him released soon for another go around.
The Dwarf Doomseekers and the Goblin-Hewer both remained for sale for at least two years following Storm of Chaos(with the latter being able to be taken as a Dog of War option for Dwarfs).
Kanluwen wrote: I absolutely LOVE when people try to bring the whole "I've been around for longer than you!" card into this.
LOTR, Judge Dredd, and Dr. Who stuff was all done under license. Did you really expect them to continue selling it without the license?
And quite frankly, what you do not seem to grasp is that all of the examples you gave(barring the Squats) were replaced. Whether they were replaced by a metal or a plastic kit or a macaroni and cheese do it yourself kit, they got a replacement(unless they were Squats).
The rumors, again, are that a significant number of plastic kits are not being "dumped "to get replaced--they're just flatout getting DUMPED.
Eternal Guard/Wildwood Rangers and Wild Riders/Sisters of the Thorn were put onto the mandatory stockist list, purportedly, and both kits have also been mentioned as two of the kits to vanish when this forthcoming edition hits.
So please, put the whole "you young whippersnapper"(for the record? I've been into WHFB since 1997, when I was 10 years old. I have seen plenty of how the current GW) attitude aside and try using a bit of critical thinking.
migooo wrote:limited kits stuff that was dumped for storm of chaos the dwarf doomseekers ( which i missed getting), lustria (limited setting) the Vampire pirates bag and those are just off the top of my head and ill give you the second one as it was just 2 other kits combined but still. Used to be sold for a limited time then not.
The Sartosan Vampire Pirate was still up for sale as of last year. He's actually in some of the photos that just got leaked from "Archaon", so I would not be surprised to see him released soon for another go around.
The Dwarf Doomseekers and the Goblin-Hewer both remained for sale for at least two years following Storm of Chaos(with the latter being able to be taken as a Dog of War option for Dwarfs).
SeanDrake wrote: Also hang on Kan you think because independents have been forced to take a kit that gw won't get rid of it.
Sounds like a good way to run down stock to me, although I admit those kits do seem like ones to keep.
It does sound like a good way to run down stock, but at the same time?
These trade terms were supposedly set down very recently, and are intended to last until next year.
The new edition of WHFB is supposed to hit in the next few months.
SeanDrake wrote: Also hang on Kan you think because independents have been forced to take a kit that gw won't get rid of it.
Sounds like a good way to run down stock to me, although I admit those kits do seem like ones to keep.
It does sound like a good way to run down stock, but at the same time?
These trade terms were supposedly set down very recently, and are intended to last until next year.
The new edition of WHFB is supposed to hit in the next few months.
I believe all the 'lists' of kits that will survive the transition were specifically described by the original rumour monger as INCOMPLETE,
this fact did seem to be lost when the list was reproduced
so while we may well see a bunch of stuff disappear I expect most of it will be the metal, finecast and maybe really old plastic kits which are too similar to historicals (sorry Bretonia)
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Well, if our one lonely special snowflake hero does end up being Draigo coming out the other end of Chaos, who knows what the guy is capable of at that point?
Plus I thought whatever we see in 9th is going to be some time after... time ended. Like centuries and stuff. Good chance for new fluff to start, especially with all the aftermath of what's occurred and how the various factions plan on rebuilding.
Considering the talk about other worlds, I'd say at most the world ended, but not the whole universe.
And even that isn't something that is automatically the end of everything.
When the world is an integral part of the setting, yes it is.
We're not talking about the equivalent of the old philosophical conundrum about the broom here(if you replace this bit and that bit of a broom over many years as they break or wear out until eventually none of the original parts remain, is it still the same broom?), we're talking about breaking the broom in half over your knee, stomping up and down on the remains until they're splinters, burning the splinters, then going out and buying a hoover. Yes, you still technically possess a device for cleaning your floor, but trying to pretend it's even remotely the same is the height of sophistry.
They've already been pulling that broom thing over a few decades now. Let's be honest, the game isn't the same thing a number of people bought into, and while some don't mind the changes, others have.
This is just (potentially) the most drastic change for the game so far.
Kanluwen wrote: And you think that they would legitimately have kits around for 6 months?
I honestly wouldn't put anything past them.
As it stands, the rumor is that they are going to do "Limited Edition kits" with shelf lives of 6 months(or until the production run sells out). That's ridiculous to take at anywhere near face value, unless we're talking about things somehow tied in to campaign boxes or things of that nature like we have seen with 40k.
Now if the rumor were that they were going to change the distribution model for new kits, and have them be in stores for 6 months before going Direct Only?
That is a believable rumor.
Kanluwen wrote: And you think that they would legitimately have kits around for 6 months?
I honestly wouldn't put anything past them.
As it stands, the rumor is that they are going to do "Limited Edition kits" with shelf lives of 6 months(or until the production run sells out). That's ridiculous to take at anywhere near face value, unless we're talking about things somehow tied in to campaign boxes or things of that nature like we have seen with 40k.
Now if the rumor were that they were going to change the distribution model for new kits, and have them be in stores for 6 months before going Direct Only?
That is a believable rumor.
Nah the believable idea is your previous supposition: That GW will release random campaign boxes with models and rules supplements at a pretty good value as a way to get into the hobby, like they've done in 40K. The Deathstorm box is great.
Kanluwen wrote: And you think that they would legitimately have kits around for 6 months?
I honestly wouldn't put anything past them.
As it stands, the rumor is that they are going to do "Limited Edition kits" with shelf lives of 6 months(or until the production run sells out). That's ridiculous to take at anywhere near face value, unless we're talking about things somehow tied in to campaign boxes or things of that nature like we have seen with 40k.
Now if the rumor were that they were going to change the distribution model for new kits, and have them be in stores for 6 months before going Direct Only?
That is a believable rumor.
But those plastic characters kits only have one run too.... And there plastic.....
But yeah I'm being padantic.
Well I think we both have our opinions you have yours and I have mine. I'm sorry if I came across as harsh or snobby. A bad day and forums do not mix
Yeah Godzilla is still eating the trash in my city
Kanluwen wrote: And you think that they would legitimately have kits around for 6 months?
Why not?
They have already made plastic kits for limited edition models and then destroyed the whole lot.
We actually don't know that for certain.
The characters from the two campaign boxes and the Terminator Captain from the Strike Force Ultra were listed as "currently available only in this set".
The two Space Marine Captains that they had as Webstore exclusives for orders just vanished, there's no specifics as to whether they were destroyed or not.
KOW is focused on fast, simple rules based around units not monsters, magic and characters.
I know what KoW is focused on, thanks, and it's a game I find mind numbingly boring and uninteresting where the models are tokens used to determine a foot print and not actual models.
So it seems like chaos simply won and they have cleared the way to reboot the game. If so, perhaps it was simply to conclude the game and give it an actual ending before starting from scratch.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Well, if our one lonely special snowflake hero does end up being Draigo coming out the other end of Chaos, who knows what the guy is capable of at that point?
Plus I thought whatever we see in 9th is going to be some time after... time ended. Like centuries and stuff. Good chance for new fluff to start, especially with all the aftermath of what's occurred and how the various factions plan on rebuilding.
Considering the talk about other worlds, I'd say at most the world ended, but not the whole universe.
And even that isn't something that is automatically the end of everything.
When the world is an integral part of the setting, yes it is.
We're not talking about the equivalent of the old philosophical conundrum about the broom here(if you replace this bit and that bit of a broom over many years as they break or wear out until eventually none of the original parts remain, is it still the same broom?), we're talking about breaking the broom in half over your knee, stomping up and down on the remains until they're splinters, burning the splinters, then going out and buying a hoover. Yes, you still technically possess a device for cleaning your floor, but trying to pretend it's even remotely the same is the height of sophistry.
They've already been pulling that broom thing over a few decades now. Let's be honest, the game isn't the same thing a number of people bought into, and while some don't mind the changes, others have.
This is just (potentially) the most drastic change for the game so far.
I don't accept that line of argument sorry. Both Fantasy and 40K have been pretty stable at their core for a long time now, which is proper given they are settings not stories. GW were selling plastic pseudo-Landsknecht soldiers with puffy sleeves back in the early 90's, that's more than 20 years ago, and the fluff for the various human societies had been around for several years even at that point. Once they nailed down the basic shape and themes of both worlds, the changes have been tinkering - a retcon here, a new race or unit there - what is happening now is not changing the existing IP, it is replacing it. Eradicating it.
The world is gone, the factions are gone, the characters are gone, the nation states are gone, if the rumoured motivations are correct then most of the thematic ties to our own history will be gone and the overall aesthetic will also be different. All the things that make Warhammer Fantasy, Warhammer Fantasy will be gone.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Well, if our one lonely special snowflake hero does end up being Draigo coming out the other end of Chaos, who knows what the guy is capable of at that point?
Plus I thought whatever we see in 9th is going to be some time after... time ended. Like centuries and stuff. Good chance for new fluff to start, especially with all the aftermath of what's occurred and how the various factions plan on rebuilding.
Considering the talk about other worlds, I'd say at most the world ended, but not the whole universe.
And even that isn't something that is automatically the end of everything.
When the world is an integral part of the setting, yes it is.
We're not talking about the equivalent of the old philosophical conundrum about the broom here(if you replace this bit and that bit of a broom over many years as they break or wear out until eventually none of the original parts remain, is it still the same broom?), we're talking about breaking the broom in half over your knee, stomping up and down on the remains until they're splinters, burning the splinters, then going out and buying a hoover. Yes, you still technically possess a device for cleaning your floor, but trying to pretend it's even remotely the same is the height of sophistry.
Exactly. At the end of the book, they explicitly destroyed everything. Every character, every army, every living thing in the Warhammer world is dead. For them to bring back any of the current kits, they have to engage in a serious erasure of what they've just written.
In a way, it makes sense. One of the rumors for this new edition is that they'll be implementing short-run, limited edition kits that will only be available for a short time and then gone forever. What if the End Times kits are the first of these?
If they release WHFB 9Ed and just dismiss the End Times like they did Storm of Chaos and leave the game relatively unchanged then I think that would almost be worse than just destroying the game and starting over completely new.
It really, really, really, really, really, really wouldn't.
Yes, actually, it would. Between all the books and models released for this one event, only to be undone in a fashion that smacks of 'Dallas' would be viewed as an insult to many gamers. Hell, even Storm of Chaos being retconned out of existence is looked down upon by many vets. We've spent the last half-year getting engrossed by this awesome story, and for GW to dream it all away will cheapen the whole bloody thing.
I know you're still steamed about GW allegedly taking a huge steaming dump on your WFRP campaign - again, you can ignore End Times for that - but for those of us who invested both financially and emotionally into the End Times, forgetting it happened would be a slap in the face.
[EDIT]: Hold the phone... how much is Bloody McBlooderson? AUD$50? US$30? How much bigger is this guy than Gutrot, who costs half that in Aussie dollars. WTFGW?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Do IA books usually show up in WD like that?
[EDIT]: Hold the phone... how much is Bloody McBlooderson? AUD$50? US$30? How much bigger is this guy than Gutrot, who costs half that in Aussie dollars. WTFGW?
It's really your own fault for not expecting that.
But for months now GW prices in the US and UK have been catching up with Oz's (over)prices. Now they're suddenly making Oz prices jump out ahead again? It makes no damned sense.
I mean I don't care about this model - it's a terrible model with a stupid name and rules - but with AdMech and the potential for Deathwatch and Genestealer Cults around the corner, this matters.
I am not kidding when I say the people that designed (art and miniature) and the people that greenlighted the design for Skarr Bloodwrath should be fired.
That is by far the stupidest design GW have made to date. I raged at the hammer-whip on the bloodthirster and I am now just utterly lost for words on how to describe the absolute seething, soul-burning hatred that wells up when I see them charging $50 for something that wouldn't make it on an episode of freakin' AXE COP.
I hate it. My blood boils and my cup overfloweth with a rage not even Khorne could hope to contain nor even comprehend.
Kirasu wrote: The only way to protect their IP is to create new models that look terrible!
You know, an old friend of mine once had a theory that the way they sold the ugly as sin models was by making them so brokenly stupid in rules terms that they became must haves...
We were quite eagerly waiting for Lemartes...then they just went and resculpted him.
You know, an old friend of mine once had a theory that the way they sold the ugly as sin models was by making them so brokenly stupid in rules terms that they became must haves...
We were quite eagerly waiting for Lemartes...then they just went and resculpted him.
Which is why CSM Mutilators have been sweeping all tournaments for the past 2 years.
Yes, but I meant the difference between AUS$/NZ$ and the other currencies which is so much more. The single character models are expensive here but that 'down-under' price is... like... stealing from people. I know Australia/NZ have always had to pay more but that is a huge gap
You know, an old friend of mine once had a theory that the way they sold the ugly as sin models was by making them so brokenly stupid in rules terms that they became must haves...
We were quite eagerly waiting for Lemartes...then they just went and resculpted him.
Which is why CSM Mutilators have been sweeping all tournaments for the past 2 years.
It was disproved long ago. Our friend the Razorgor did that.
KOW is focused on fast, simple rules based around units not monsters, magic and characters.
I know what KoW is focused on, thanks, and it's a game I find mind numbingly boring and uninteresting where the models are tokens used to determine a foot print and not actual models.
Wow I hit a nerve there. Don't worry if Gw were going to go streamlined and balanced they would have done it by now, it doesn't fit their business model so you are fine. FYI the model shape does matter in the current KOW rules for LOS.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Well, if our one lonely special snowflake hero does end up being Draigo coming out the other end of Chaos, who knows what the guy is capable of at that point?
Plus I thought whatever we see in 9th is going to be some time after... time ended. Like centuries and stuff. Good chance for new fluff to start, especially with all the aftermath of what's occurred and how the various factions plan on rebuilding.
Considering the talk about other worlds, I'd say at most the world ended, but not the whole universe.
And even that isn't something that is automatically the end of everything.
When the world is an integral part of the setting, yes it is.
We're not talking about the equivalent of the old philosophical conundrum about the broom here(if you replace this bit and that bit of a broom over many years as they break or wear out until eventually none of the original parts remain, is it still the same broom?), we're talking about breaking the broom in half over your knee, stomping up and down on the remains until they're splinters, burning the splinters, then going out and buying a hoover. Yes, you still technically possess a device for cleaning your floor, but trying to pretend it's even remotely the same is the height of sophistry.
Exactly. At the end of the book, they explicitly destroyed everything. Every character, every army, every living thing in the Warhammer world is dead. For them to bring back any of the current kits, they have to engage in a serious erasure of what they've just written.
In a way, it makes sense. One of the rumors for this new edition is that they'll be implementing short-run, limited edition kits that will only be available for a short time and then gone forever. What if the End Times kits are the first of these?
If they release WHFB 9Ed and just dismiss the End Times like they did Storm of Chaos and leave the game relatively unchanged then I think that would almost be worse than just destroying the game and starting over completely new.
It really, really, really, really, really, really wouldn't.
Yes, actually, it would. Between all the books and models released for this one event, only to be undone in a fashion that smacks of 'Dallas' would be viewed as an insult to many gamers. Hell, even Storm of Chaos being retconned out of existence is looked down upon by many vets. We've spent the last half-year getting engrossed by this awesome story, and for GW to dream it all away will cheapen the whole bloody thing.
I know you're still steamed about GW allegedly taking a huge steaming dump on your WFRP campaign - again, you can ignore End Times for that - but for those of us who invested both financially and emotionally into the End Times, forgetting it happened would be a slap in the face.
Yeah, the point I was trying to make was that after all of the secrecy, the expensive special editions, the books, the new model releases, the new rules, the extensive drastic changes to the background, all of that, if GW then tells us jus kidding guys, everything is staying pretty much the same, here buy the new WHFB 8.5 rulebooks, they're slightly different that would constitute the most incredible epic trolling of a fan base ever. That to me would be more insulting and off putting then if GW just decided to scrap a nonprofitable WHFB game and start over new.
Wow they kicked it up a notch with that Skarr Bloodwrath model. Looks pretty cool aside from the chains on the axes and the demon hoof feet...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Im no professional painter by any means but wouldnt it look cooler to paint his skin some other color instead of red, so you could then make it looks like exposed muscle underneath? I imagine though GW paints them like this so their site doesnt get flagged or something.
Not at all, actually. Mostly, my response phrasing was because you KoW players tend to just assume that the people who aren't fans haven't tried it or know anything about it.
I actually kinda like the model, I just hate the chains attached to the axes. And he definitely needs to keep the helmet on. And "Bloodwrath" is really god-damned stupid. And that price is insane. But you know, other than that it's decent.
I mentioned on Warseer I was stumped at that pricing - nearly double the price of Gutrot for a mini that's not noticeably bigger?!
Only just noticed when I looked at the 360 shot that the flails have skulls on their ends - I'd originally though they were stones.
Also, his back is worked in the shape of the Khorne symbol - that's the theme of this release character wise going by this and the symbols on the Thirster wings.
Yes, I'm well aware of the fact that I've used poor Michael Jordan several times now, but I can't find proper words to describe the stupidity, and somehow yet hilarious, that is this model and his axe-flails-thingies... The gif above is the only way I can make my reaction justice.
The worst part of this Khorne-heavy release is that even Archaon has Khorne-favored rules (his results for '7' rolls on Eye of the Gods and Reign of Chaos are both the Khorne result). The one guy who is supposed to be the representation on Chaos Undivided is apparently all about the Khorne.
Is it just me or doesn't swinging great hammers in chains or having long chains from your axe seem to be a perfect way to knock yourself unconscious or make yourself trip?
Bonesnapper wrote: Is it just me or doesn't swinging great hammers in chains or having long chains from your axe seem to be a perfect way to knock yourself unconscious or make yourself trip?
In my opinion it gets silly.
Of course it's silly. They've been putting out a lot of kits over the last few years full of stuff that would better fit into an 80s Saturday morning cartoon, and not any of the good ones. Geez, at 7, I'd have been shaking my head at some of the ridiculous dog squeeze they've been designing lately.
Bonesnapper wrote: Is it just me or doesn't swinging great hammers in chains or having long chains from your axe seem to be a perfect way to knock yourself unconscious or make yourself trip?
When you have a hammer plastic sculpt, every problem looks like a flowing cape or a chain. Preferably with skulls.
Bonesnapper wrote: Is it just me or doesn't swinging great hammers in chains or having long chains from your axe seem to be a perfect way to knock yourself unconscious or make yourself trip?
In my opinion it gets silly.
Not only that, but the tension created by the swinging chains would pull the force of the axe away from the cutting angle, meaning the weapon would be nearly impossible to use. I imagine it like being in a dream, where you keep swinging at someone but just softly hitting them every time
I realize we're not always going for realism with fantasy stuff, but this guy seems to have flails just so he can look more dangerous, but the effect looks very silly imo.
Deadawake1347 wrote: All that's saying is what they've always said when it comes to definite things like that, "do whatever the hell you want, we don't care."
Well it's on the page is for "Armies of the End Times" not the "every army ever" like some where claiming before.
Deadawake1347 wrote: All that's saying is what they've always said when it comes to definite things like that, "do whatever the hell you want, we don't care."
Well it's on the page is for "Armies of the End Times" not the "every army ever" like some where claiming before.
And all it's saying is "Ignore how it's now officially done if you want", which doesn't need to be put in a rule book. It's not a rule like you're trying to say it is.
Deadawake1347 wrote: All that's saying is what they've always said when it comes to definite things like that, "do whatever the hell you want, we don't care."
Well it's on the page is for "Armies of the End Times" not the "every army ever" like some where claiming before.
Actually, it is. The designer's note is what is saying, "If you don't like it, you can ignore it, but this is how it is now."
The rule still tells you exactly how it wants you to play, which is ignoring all previous methods of army building.
It's essentially the same thing as Unbound in 40K. "This is how it is, but if you and your opponent agree, you can do whatever makes you giggle".
IN a nutshell, L4 wizard (Death, Shadow, Fire, Metal or Tzeentch I think), combined profile with Dorghar, now he's unbreakable, the Swords of Chaos get hatred and unbreakable, and Archaon gets the Khorne result if you roll a 7 on the Reign of Chaos or Eye of the Gods tables. Other than, pretty much the same as before.
Hmm, the discussion is probably over by now in regards to Slaanesh and Tzeentch's roles in the end times, but apparently in the story
Spoiler:
Slaanesh only sends its weakest champion to aid Archaeon because it actually DIDN'T want the world to be destroyed
(like I said earlier, Slaanesh really doesn't have much to gain from that. And of course that hilarious fan dialogue about Khorne and Nurgle destroying the world while Slaanesh and Tzeentch were on vacation). I guess at least someone at GW or BL realizes that, too.
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SKULLMONGERS