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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
 H.B.M.C. wrote: CthuluIsSpy wrote:Odd how there are no necrons though. You'd think they would be all over a blackstone fortress, considering how those were Old One weapons platforms. Unless that got retconned.
Why would Necrons be all over it if it's an Old One weapon?
So they can blow it up? Its a lot easier to destroy a weapons platform from the inside than the outside. Also, now that blackstone is a key component in necron anti-psy equipment (It can either amplify or neutralize psychic energies, depending on how you use it), they could mine it away, destroying the fortress in the process. There is no reason for them not to be interested in the fortress. If I were an Overlord and I heard about a Blackstone Fortress that's easy pickings, I would totally send in a mining team of canopteks, a cryptek supervisor and immortal bodyguards.
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Post by: Flinty
She is wearing psychic armour. She can pretty much put it wherever she likes.
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Post by: bullyboy
After finally getting to see the video on a full screen (not phone), I can really appreciate some of the models. I actually love the two little ratlings, what dungeon crawler is complete without a couple of the little guys? The robot is actually my least favourite model of the entire bunch. The navigator actually looks better as a mini than it does in the artwork.
The traitor guard are massive standouts though, wow, please expand this line to full on Renegade Guard.
And.....I don't care what you all think, I still love the Ranger (but I do see why people don't like the "Raging Heroes" style pose), but she would be my first character of choice if I play this in a group.
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Post by: NoiseMarine with Tinnitus
Well dammit. That is my R&H army getting a complete reboot. I now just need ALL THE BLACKFORTRESS BAD GUY SPRUES!
Apparently the R&H dudes come with options. That makes me think we will be seeing a standalone kit for them in the near future. Would explain the timing of FW canning the R&H line.
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Post by: BrookM
"Options" may just be a different head, so I'd wait and see first.
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Post by: Accolade
Love everything in this set, but I’m a bit confused about the Chaos Space Marines.
They look bigger than the old marines but smaller than the Primaris (ie like the new death guard). Are there just going to be three scales of marines going forward (with chaos being in the middle)?
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Post by: Wolf_in_Human_Shape
Yeah, that seems possible.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
If these are anything but mono-pose minis with the odd headswap I'd be very surprised.
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Post by: mortar_crew
H.B.M.C. wrote:If these are anything but mono-pose minis with the odd headswap I'd be very surprised.
Mono pose figures would be my bet also.
It seems that there are a pair of dudes with lasguns firing (?) one with some kind of club(?)
the grenade throwing one (with the pin still in the hand!)
a flamer and the leader with the sword and pistol.
So I will bet they will be on a unique frame.
Still stunning stuff, I will definitively hope they expand the range with at least
a heavy weapon kit and a sprue to "upgrade" cadians like they did for
the GSC... or more.
Buying all of them... Traitor guard in plastic, what a time to be a 40K gamer!
One plea to the designer nonetheless: keep it down on the chainmail please...
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Post by: silverstu
Really impressive- I love this a lot more than I thought I would. The eldar ranger - I was expecting to hate- long time eldar collector and I've become a bit bored of them and I had been hoping for a proper corsair or something. But she's very impressive- love the dynamic pose- it makes more sense when you see other angles as she is holding a full sword not a dagger. The "Robot" looks like a suit or some kind - the chest has a big hatch and handle on it- either another ratling or a squat battle suit maybe? The Sister of Battle/missionary looks fantastic and the chaos stuff is more interesting than expected.. looks great model wise for me anyway..
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Post by: BrookM
The hatch most likely contains the wetware of the robot.
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Post by: Kendo
I just hope there are Killteam rules for these models. Some can port in already like the marines, but I would love to see these models come to the only GW game I play anymore.
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Post by: Binabik15
The latest AoS starter had options on the duplicate sprue - one body and parts for the unit champ as well as another grunt. Maybe the Renegades are like that.
Cadian bodies are cheap enough to make us of the leftover bits.
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Post by: Elbows
Also...this is a bit of stretch - could those two Chaos Marines be a new version of this? If CSM get a proper new release, the quick-fit models don't really make sense...but they would as the new micro-starter box. Maybe two minis instead of three due to the scale increase (or you'd get more than two in the box). They look more static than even the newest monopose minis...just a thought.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Chaos-Space-Marines-3-models
All of the cultist/tratior guard I can make out have standard weapons in the typical cultists datasheet if you accept that autoguns and lasguns have the same stat line. I see autopistol/melee weapon, a flamer, and lasguns.
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Post by: ImAGeek
 Elbows wrote:Also...this is a bit of stretch - could those two Chaos Marines be a new version of this? If CSM get a proper new release, the quick-fit models don't really make sense...but they would as the new micro-starter box. Maybe two minis instead of three due to the scale increase (or you'd get more than two in the box). They look more static than even the newest monopose minis...just a thought.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Chaos-Space-Marines-3-models
All of the cultist/tratior guard I can make out have standard weapons in the typical cultists datasheet if you accept that autoguns and lasguns have the same stat line. I see autopistol/melee weapon, a flamer, and lasguns.
The 2 CSM will just be in this game.
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Post by: barboggo
Everything is awesome except the excessively-sexy-yet-still-weirdly-stiffly-posed ranger. A busty ranger with a design that emphasizes bursting boobs, thighs and stockings was a bad idea to begin with, but on top of that it's not even well executed with the slight pidgeon toed look and the awkward blade arm. It looks like bad 4chan waifu fanart brought to life.
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Post by: Haighus
Elbows wrote:Two disappointment stand out to me.
A) The robot has an assault cannon/mini-gun...this trend needs to die in a fire. We have 40K, a tremendous universe of possibilities and yet every GW design has the 1980's action movie obsession with miniguns. Really gets old (not to mention they rarely have an ammo feed appropriate for the gun). Unless you're wearing an MTV t-shirt, I don't want you carrying a minigun.
B) The CSM. This is a huge wasted opportunity. They're almost carbon-copies of the aesthetic from Dark Vengeance...just...larger and more boring. GW has finally put mass production behind things like MkIII and MkIV armour...they did a great job incorporating it in the Death Guard models, and yet we get another "generic Chaos" mark of armour that is kinda...nothing. I really wish GW would embrace the Horus Heresy origins which would look great on CSM models. Also..throw us some new helmets, or some old school bolters, or at the very least some chain mail bits, etc. The poses and styling of the new CSM seem really lazy...and not something I think was worth waiting for. I feel like someone totally different designed the traitor guard which are fresh, and interesting. I hope the new CSM kit (if one is indeed en route) is not based on this generic Chaos aesthetic they've been drowning in lately. The Lord, on the other hand, looks fantastic.
I know what you're saying, but at the same time, they are wearing MkV with Godwyn-style bolters, both of which were common in the Heresy. MkV is the easiest Mk to maintain and find spare parts for- it is basically MkIV with cheaper, inferior, bulky components. It makes sense for most non-Nurgle, non-Rubric CSM to use MkV for the maintenance reason. Most MkIV suits they did have would have been repaired to a MkV standard over the years.
Personally, I like the DV/ CSM Raptors look, so these two will be rounding out my Chosen squad, and the leader will become a Lieutenant/junior Lord to my Lord. Gonna have a core of elite CSM leading a bunch of cannon-fodder chaff.
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Post by: Flinty
Maybe it's actually maximum inclilusivity and the ranger has one leg shorter than the other. What you are describing as an awkward pose is actually just because she uses special shoes? Or yeah... It's just weird...
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Post by: barboggo
I'm not a fan of sexy Craftworld Eldar since they're supposed to be weird monk people that have abstained from the excesses of wider Eldar culture but if you're going to go that direction, at least try making it a little classier than what an 11 year old's drawing of what an "edgy sexy space elf lady" would look like. If the posing was better, I could MAYBE buy this idea with the specific context that she's a special named character at the Blackstone Fortress with her own idiosyncrasies and personality quirks and uh... sexy attire.
But... come on...
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Post by: Nevelon
 barboggo wrote:Everything is awesome except the excessively-sexy-yet-still-weirdly-stiffly-posed ranger. A busty ranger with a design that emphasizes bursting boobs, thighs and stockings was a bad idea to begin with, but on top of that it's not even well executed with the slight pidgeon toed look and the awkward blade arm. It looks like bad 4chan waifu fanart brought to life.
Some of the design elements are straight from the normal rangers:
Open chest robes, thigh-high leg warmers. giant gem belt buckle. Pose does looks a little goofy, but that might just be the angle. But she does fit in with the established aesthetics.
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Post by: barboggo
It's cool if you like it man. I won't judge. 
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Post by: Flinty
Oh god... I just noticed the gem between the legs... It's like Ghostbusters 2 all.over again.
The design details are the same.but it's all sexed up.to 10.
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Post by: Nevelon
I wouldn’t go as far to say I liked her. The model is posed oddly, but a lot of time dynamic models don’t photograph well. She might be better IRL or with a 360. So I’m not writing her off yet. I’ve also been giving Eldar in KT a lot of thought, so a ranger who stands out from the rest would be nice for denoting a specialist. One not finecast would be even better. So I might be a little biased towards her, despite flaws. Right now I’m hovering around “optimistically hopeful"
And any plastic eldar is a good eldar. 
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Post by: BertBert
The ranger really is a mystery to me. What's wrong with the legs and feet? The left foot is turned inwards and the right one is tiptoeing like a ballet dancer's pose.
The chest appears to be facing forward and is totally exposed, not something you'd expect form a martial posture. But then again, it doesn't really look like she's preparing to fight either, because she's neither aiming her rifle nor readying her kinve , with both being held uselessly on either side - It's all wrong
This has been called an Infinity-esque pose before, but it's really nothing like Infinity at all. Imagine the ranger had either of these poses, for example:
This is what you'd expect a ranger to move like.
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Post by: Marleymoo
The Ranger looks better on the video. The angle of the picture makes her look a little awkward.
You haters could just send your rangers to me. 
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Post by: barboggo
Yeah I can't complain if a lot of people like her. Makes her easier for me to get rid of.
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Post by: Mr_Rose
Personally, I can’t get over the appalling trigger discipline, myself. Just, no, over-inflated space-elf, you only put your finger on the trigger when you are ready to kill the target.
What did that poor ceiling ever do to you?
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Post by: Crimson
 Mr_Rose wrote:Personally, I can’t get over the appalling trigger discipline, myself. Just, no, over-inflated space-elf, you only put your finger on the trigger when you are ready to kill the target.
What did that poor ceiling ever do to you?
That is only an issue if the said trigger finger is controlled by a primitive and instinct driven monkey brain.
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Post by: Elbows
That rifle doesn't even appear to have a normal trigger...it's Space Elf magicks.
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Post by: timetowaste85
Not getting the Ranger hate at all. At least the armor doesn’t look like it’s paper thin over her body. It’s actual armor. Oh well. We won’t all like the same stuff. It is what it is.
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Post by: Neronoxx
Mr_Rose wrote:Personally, I can’t get over the appalling trigger discipline, myself. Just, no, over-inflated space-elf, you only put your finger on the trigger when you are ready to kill the target.
What did that poor ceiling ever do to you?
Eldar guns, last I checked, fired psychically. All of them. Even shuriken weapons.
So, no need for trigger discipline.
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Post by: silverstu
 BrookM wrote:The hatch most likely contains the wetware of the robot.
Possibly but I like the idea of another ratling in there on the controls!
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Post by: bullyboy
Neronoxx wrote: Mr_Rose wrote:Personally, I can’t get over the appalling trigger discipline, myself. Just, no, over-inflated space-elf, you only put your finger on the trigger when you are ready to kill the target.
What did that poor ceiling ever do to you?
Eldar guns, last I checked, fired psychically. All of them. Even shuriken weapons.
So, no need for trigger discipline.
Like the model, most here can't comprehend Eldar. Xenophobic as they are.
Btw, please send me your Rangers if you cannot abide them.
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Post by: JohnnyHell
Neronoxx wrote: Mr_Rose wrote:Personally, I can’t get over the appalling trigger discipline, myself. Just, no, over-inflated space-elf, you only put your finger on the trigger when you are ready to kill the target.
What did that poor ceiling ever do to you?
Eldar guns, last I checked, fired psychically. All of them. Even shuriken weapons.
So, no need for trigger discipline.
They still have a physical trigger.
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Post by: Howard A Treesong
Plenty of non-Eldar have been depicted with them, I have a space marine with one somewhere.
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Post by: Arachnofiend
 bullyboy wrote:Neronoxx wrote: Mr_Rose wrote:Personally, I can’t get over the appalling trigger discipline, myself. Just, no, over-inflated space-elf, you only put your finger on the trigger when you are ready to kill the target.
What did that poor ceiling ever do to you?
Eldar guns, last I checked, fired psychically. All of them. Even shuriken weapons.
So, no need for trigger discipline.
Like the model, most here can't comprehend Eldar. Xenophobic as they are.
Btw, please send me your Rangers if you cannot abide them.
You know, "we build our guns with triggers that don't actually do anything" doesn't make the Eldar look any smarter.
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Post by: Tastyfish
 Arachnofiend wrote: bullyboy wrote:Neronoxx wrote: Mr_Rose wrote:Personally, I can’t get over the appalling trigger discipline, myself. Just, no, over-inflated space-elf, you only put your finger on the trigger when you are ready to kill the target.
What did that poor ceiling ever do to you?
Eldar guns, last I checked, fired psychically. All of them. Even shuriken weapons.
So, no need for trigger discipline.
Like the model, most here can't comprehend Eldar. Xenophobic as they are.
Btw, please send me your Rangers if you cannot abide them.
You know, "we build our guns with triggers that don't actually do anything" doesn't make the Eldar look any smarter.
You've got a safety that requires psychic intent to fire, physical trigger fires the gun, but not without intent. Seems a decent option on a gun and safer than some mechanical lock - in which case trigger discipline is kind of meaningless, or reversed as having your finger on the trigger might focus the mind on the use of the gun.
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Post by: JohnnyHell
Arachnofiend wrote: bullyboy wrote:Neronoxx wrote: Mr_Rose wrote:Personally, I can’t get over the appalling trigger discipline, myself. Just, no, over-inflated space-elf, you only put your finger on the trigger when you are ready to kill the target.
What did that poor ceiling ever do to you?
Eldar guns, last I checked, fired psychically. All of them. Even shuriken weapons.
So, no need for trigger discipline.
Like the model, most here can't comprehend Eldar. Xenophobic as they are.
Btw, please send me your Rangers if you cannot abide them.
The triggers do do something. They’re a backup in case of psychic disruption/distress. Know yo Eldar, bros.
You know, "we build our guns with triggers that don't actually do anything" doesn't make the Eldar look any smarter.
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Post by: Geifer
Looks neat. The Yr-Ghul dance group is a bit weird as they seem to have the same pose four time, instead of two poses twice as you would expect with a duplicate sprue like in Silver Tower.Odd.
The preacher looks cool, except maybe the pipe in his nose. I never liked those on Genestealer Cultists either, though. The missionary, too. Finally some some modern plastics for the Ecclesiarchy!
I like the robot, and until I see irrefutable proof to the opposite I maintain that there's enough room in the chest for a Squat. 
BertBert wrote:The ranger really is a mystery to me. What's wrong with the legs and feet? The left foot is turned inwards and the right one is tiptoeing like a ballet dancer's pose.
The chest appears to be facing forward and is totally exposed, not something you'd expect form a martial posture. But then again, it doesn't really look like she's preparing to fight either, because she's neither aiming her rifle nor readying her kinve , with both being held uselessly on either side - It's all wrong
It's only wrong if you think of her as a ranger. In truth she's just following the path of the model and presents the latest ranger fall fashion.
 timetowaste85 wrote:Not getting the Ranger hate at all. At least the armor doesn’t look like it’s paper thin over her body. It’s actual armor. Oh well. We won’t all like the same stuff. It is what it is.
I don't think the armor is different from a Guardian's. Maybe slightly improved, given the latter aren't getting any younger and GW's plastic casting itself has improved in the meantime, but stylistically?
Maybe it's just me, though.
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Post by: Mymearan
BertBert wrote:The ranger really is a mystery to me. What's wrong with the legs and feet? The left foot is turned inwards and the right one is tiptoeing like a ballet dancer's pose.
The chest appears to be facing forward and is totally exposed, not something you'd expect form a martial posture. But then again, it doesn't really look like she's preparing to fight either, because she's neither aiming her rifle nor readying her kinve , with both being held uselessly on either side - It's all wrong
This has been called an Infinity-esque pose before, but it's really nothing like Infinity at all. Imagine the ranger had either of these poses, for example:
This is what you'd expect a ranger to move like.
I believe they were referring to mind-boggling stuff like this:
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Post by: BertBert
 Mymearan wrote:
I believe they were referring to mind-boggling stuff like this:
Fair enough, that pose is silly, but also part of the character:
“Elegance is inborn. Believe me, it ain’t easy being so fething stylish while hauling all this tactical gear.” Miranda Ashcroft, Authorized Bounty Hunter
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Post by: Tyranid Horde
BertBert wrote: Mymearan wrote:
I believe they were referring to mind-boggling stuff like this:
Fair enough, that pose is silly, but also part of the character:
“Elegance is inborn. Believe me, it ain’t easy being so fething stylish while hauling all this tactical gear.” Miranda Ashcroft, Authorized Bounty Hunter
The elegance really doesn't come across in that model very well in my opinion.
Someone mentioned her spirit stone. There's a difference between Illic Nightspear the legendary pathfinder and a random ranger joining a rogue trader to the Blackstone Fortress. Ranger armour is bog standard Guardian armour with a camo cloak.
The lack of a trigger is quite annoying too. Every other ranger model has a trigger.
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Post by: Lord Perversor
Worth to remember this ranger is part of the new Cad plastic models.
Where more bling and some other details are added compared to older models (just compare finecast spiritseer with wake the dead one)
Also fluff wise guardian and ranger armor are pretty much a kind of plastic jumpsuit that hardens when impacted with extra armor in some vital areas.
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Post by: robbienw
GW has been using CAD software to design its models for over 10 years now.
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Post by: Messiah
Eldar weapons are not really supposed to have triggers though, what being activated and ifred psychically.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
 Nevelon wrote: barboggo wrote:Everything is awesome except the excessively-sexy-yet-still-weirdly-stiffly-posed ranger. A busty ranger with a design that emphasizes bursting boobs, thighs and stockings was a bad idea to begin with, but on top of that it's not even well executed with the slight pidgeon toed look and the awkward blade arm. It looks like bad 4chan waifu fanart brought to life.
Some of the design elements are straight from the normal rangers:
Open chest robes, thigh-high leg warmers. giant gem belt buckle. Pose does looks a little goofy, but that might just be the angle. But she does fit in with the established aesthetics.
It's like taking all the element from previous rangers… and botching them up, with terribly weird pose on top of it.
Really find the old one better. The hoods look cool on the old ones, here it looks oversized and, like, more appropriate for a monk-like figure than for a ranger-like one.
The way her robe are overly opened defeat the whole purpose of “I'm a hidden, concealing person” and makes it more like an exhibitionist. I mean, it doesn't conceal any of her leg, and completely expose her torso, and show all of her arms. Compare to the old rangers. Old rangers look like they wear camo capes to be hidden, we don't get this impression from new ranger where it looks, like, ornamental maybe?
The poor color choice + the different shape for the top make the extra leg leather look like thighs attached to a garter-belt in a way that isn't there for Ilic.
The pose is… well, she clearly is standing in the open, not trying to hide (which isn't very rangery). She isn't snipping, and she isn't running or even walking, and she isn't fighting in close combat, she is… I have no idea what she is doing, really. Just standing there?
One of her feet is flat on the ground, the other is not, but the leg position say that she isn't walking, so… why???
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Post by: insaniak
BertBert wrote: Mymearan wrote:
I believe they were referring to mind-boggling stuff like this:
Fair enough, that pose is silly, but also part of the character:
“Elegance is inborn. Believe me, it ain’t easy being so fething stylish while hauling all this tactical gear.” Miranda Ashcroft, Authorized Bounty Hunter
She doesn't look elegant. She looks like the female character on an Avengers poster, posed for no other purpose than to show that she has a bum.
The ranger's pose is fine. The 'See, I too have weapons' pose is pretty much a staple of GW model design.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
Miranda Ashcroft is CLEARLY running AWAY from her opponents, from the pose. Is that part of her character? But that has nothing to do with elegance that's true.
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Post by: BertBert
 insaniak wrote:
She doesn't look elegant. She looks like the female character on an Avengers poster, posed for no other purpose than to show that she has a bum.
The ranger's pose is fine. The 'See, I too have weapons' pose is pretty much a staple of GW model design.
My point was not that the pose is great, but that there is an in-lore reason for her to be posing like a movie star - because she kind of is. I agree that the execution is not amazing.
The rangers pose is not fine at all - for me it makes the Ranger the worst model from the set. It is contrary to what you'd expect a ranger to move like and it makes very little sense to be standing like that in the first place.
Try imitating that pose in front of a mirror and you'll see (and feel) what I mean. Pay particular attention to the way legs and feet are arranged 
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Post by: Rolsheen
Why are people complaining about the Ranger trigger and/or leg length?
Count the fingers, clearly see the trigger finger above the other three.
The legs are the same length, one leg straight / flat foot, other bent slightly / raised foot
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Post by: Taarnak
The groupthink hate for the Ranger is a bit surprising and getting ridiculous. The pose is fine.
I would have preferred an aiming pose or at least a low ready pose, but this one given isn't terrible. My biggest criticism of it would be the knife. Why the feth did she allow someone close enough to need it? Lol.
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Post by: Chopstick
Holding the knife like that must have hurt the wrist, these Eldar and CSM have insane wrist muscle.
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Post by: Chairman Aeon
 Taarnak wrote:The groupthink hate for the Ranger is a bit surprising and getting ridiculous. The pose is fine.
Me wonders how many of those who complain about "hero posed" minis also complain about "action posed" minis looking goofy.
My real problem with the Rangers is that with that rebreather on I can't see her yelling like everybody else in the 41st millenium.
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Post by: barboggo
What do you mean by "action posed" minis?
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Post by: Sqorgar
insaniak wrote:She doesn't look elegant. She looks like the female character on an Avengers poster, posed for no other purpose than to show that she has a bum.
You say that like it is a bad thing. Infinity has the best bums in the business.
I think the ranger's pose kind of has an Masami Obari thing going on. My only problem is that there's no depth on the chest (possibly because of the jewel thing) and it makes the boobs look like lumpy pectorals. Didn't even realize the ranger was female at first.
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Post by: Tiberius501
Generally GW models look two dimensional and wonky in their photos because they change the contrast and photoshop them to death to show up all the detail, but it completely removes any shadows to show any 3D. I'd highly suspect she'll look less awkward in the 360 pics and even less in person. They always do
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Post by: DanceOfSlaanesh
The ranger pose is probably the most common pose for a GW miniature, legs wide and arms to the side. Very common for single piece metal miniatures.
Makes it easy to cast it.
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Post by: Mr Morden
I assumed she is turning to face an enemy who has come upon her when she was using her rifle.
Looks good to me.
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Post by: Warmaster Varan
40k points cost for the units. Looks like we're getting datasheets from them in the box.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Also continuing with useless and nonsensical rules just to match the model count in the box. 4 cultists or 7 traitor guard, yaaay!
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
 Mr Morden wrote:I assumed she is turning to face an enemy who has come upon her when she was using her rifle.
Looks good to me.
It also looks like she's about to leap away, judging by her raised left foot. To me it seems like the sculpture was trying to go for a "sudden transition into close combat" stance.
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Post by: Rayvon
I am loving all the models, I even like the eldar, its posed as if she is standing on a moving floor, maybe something to do with the game ?
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Post by: Imateria
robbienw wrote:GW has been using CAD software to design its models for over 10 years now.
Most of the Eldar range is older than that.
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Post by: BrookM
Some of those names are pure cringe.
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Post by: Charax
They called the Black Legion guy with a Hammer Black Hammer. For real.
Obsidius = Obsidian = Black
Mallex = Malleus = Hammer
That is a bit silly
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Post by: aracersss
5pt guardsmen ... IT'S REAL REPEAT IT'S BLOODY REAL ... PREPARE FOR TROOP HIKES! ... no more 7pt fire warriors T_T
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Post by: Daedalus81
 Rolsheen wrote:Why are people complaining about the Ranger trigger and/or leg length?
Count the fingers, clearly see the trigger finger above the other three.
The legs are the same length, one leg straight / flat foot, other bent slightly / raised foot
It's not Dakka unless people defend their complaint to the death.
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
 aracersss wrote:5pt guardsmen ... IT'S REAL REPEAT IT'S BLOODY REAL ... PREPARE FOR TROOP HIKES! ... no more 7pt fire warriors T_T
Why firewarriors? It could just mean that guardsmen are getting a points increase, provided this crosses over to 40k.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
 lord_blackfang wrote:Also continuing with useless and nonsensical rules just to match the model count in the box. 4 cultists or 7 traitor guard, yaaay!
Aren't negavolt cultists something special though? Don't they have cybernetics and better weapons compared to guardsmen and generic cultists?
Wait, how do you divide 45 by 4? That doesn't make sense.
For reference, this is a negavolt cultist
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Post by: Arbitrator
Where is my full Lost and the Damned release.
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Post by: Raichase
Looking forward to allying in a squad of 2 Black Legion into my Word Bearers army, haha!
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Aren't negavolt cultists something special though? Don't they have cybernetics and better weapons compared to guardsmen and generic cultists? Wait, how do you divide 45 by 4? That doesn't make sense.
Maybe one of them's a leader or something - a Negavolt Wattmeister or some other silly quadruple-barrelled name, and costs slightly more for +1A.
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
H.B.M.C. wrote: CthuluIsSpy wrote:Aren't negavolt cultists something special though? Don't they have cybernetics and better weapons compared to guardsmen and generic cultists? Wait, how do you divide 45 by 4? That doesn't make sense.
Maybe one of them's a leader or something - a Negavolt Wattmeister or some other silly quadruple-barrelled name, and costs slightly more for +1A.
Aren't squad leaders the same price as grunts now though? That's what it said in the Designer's Commentary.
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Post by: Tyranid Horde
They literally just called them chaos beastmen? That's kinda funny.
Traitor guardsmen are 5 ppm including weapons which is an interesting one.
The eldar ranger still looks poor in the spoilered pic. I just think it's a very poor pose at this point.
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Post by: Flinty
 DanceOfSlaanesh wrote:The ranger pose is probably the most common pose for a GW miniature, legs wide and arms to the side. Very common for single piece metal miniatures.
Makes it easy to cast it.
If both feet were flat on the floor I would agree with you. It would very much be a "come at me bro" style heroic stance which would make sense with the weapon arm pose. But the poor woman's right leg is cocked up on tippy toe in some way that is hard to understand based on the available pictures. There is no "hate", just fans who are having difficulty understanding the aesthetic choices of the artist. Mostly because it looks awkward and a bit weird.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
Taarnak wrote:The groupthink hate for the Ranger is a bit surprising and getting ridiculous.
Groupthink means “many people having the same opinion”? I'm a bit lost there. Automatically Appended Next Post: Mr Morden wrote:I assumed she is turning to face an enemy who has come upon her when she was using her rifle.
I'm looking at the model and, well, the fact that her head is facing the exact same direction her torso is, for instance, really prevent me from seeing this as her turning. Also she already has her weapon in hand! If she looked like she was turning, and was unsheathing her weapon, could have looked awesome.
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
 Flinty wrote: DanceOfSlaanesh wrote:The ranger pose is probably the most common pose for a GW miniature, legs wide and arms to the side. Very common for single piece metal miniatures.
Makes it easy to cast it.
If both feet were flat on the floor I would agree with you. It would very much be a "come at me bro" style heroic stance which would make sense with the weapon arm pose. But the poor woman's right leg is cocked up on tippy toe in some way that is hard to understand based on the available pictures. There is no "hate", just fans who are having difficulty understanding the aesthetic choices of the artist. Mostly because it looks awkward and a bit weird.
I think the foot is meant to convey the ranger about to do a side step or a leap to the side, but its not clear.
It would have been better if it was a more standing position, yes.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
That implies that there are non-Chaos Beastmen!!! Loyalist Beastmen in a new Guard Codex confirmed!!
(/reading too much into it)
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Post by: ElvisJuice
 Daedalus81 wrote: Rolsheen wrote:Why are people complaining about the Ranger trigger and/or leg length?
Count the fingers, clearly see the trigger finger above the other three.
The legs are the same length, one leg straight / flat foot, other bent slightly / raised foot
It's not Dakka unless people defend their complaint to the death.
"trigger discipline" is completely stupid anyway, unless you're commenting on a real person with a real gun. Hollywood, games, TV, none of them do trigger discipline properly, I have no idea why someone would expect GW's magic space elves to lead the charge on that
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Post by: Rayvon
H.B.M.C. wrote:That implies that there are non-Chaos Beastmen!!! Loyalist Beastmen in a new Guard Codex confirmed!!
(/reading too much into it)
I am not going to lie, I would get quite excited if they bought these back !
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Post by: Tiberius501
Shame they don't seem to be going into Kill Team, but hopefully the actual game is fun enough to play.
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Post by: Mr_Rose
 ElvisJuice wrote: Daedalus81 wrote: Rolsheen wrote:Why are people complaining about the Ranger trigger and/or leg length?
Count the fingers, clearly see the trigger finger above the other three.
The legs are the same length, one leg straight / flat foot, other bent slightly / raised foot
It's not Dakka unless people defend their complaint to the death.
"trigger discipline" is completely stupid anyway, unless you're commenting on a real person with a real gun. Hollywood, games, TV, none of them do trigger discipline properly, I have no idea why someone would expect GW's magic space elves to lead the charge on that
They managed it for the voidsmen in Rogue Trader. So, not expectation of leading the charge, just an approximation of consistency.
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Post by: ImAGeek
Mr_Rose wrote: ElvisJuice wrote: Daedalus81 wrote: Rolsheen wrote:Why are people complaining about the Ranger trigger and/or leg length?
Count the fingers, clearly see the trigger finger above the other three.
The legs are the same length, one leg straight / flat foot, other bent slightly / raised foot
It's not Dakka unless people defend their complaint to the death.
"trigger discipline" is completely stupid anyway, unless you're commenting on a real person with a real gun. Hollywood, games, TV, none of them do trigger discipline properly, I have no idea why someone would expect GW's magic space elves to lead the charge on that
They managed it for the voidsmen in Rogue Trader. So, not expectation of leading the charge, just an approximation of consistency.
They did it for one model in one kit. I’d say that was the inconsistency
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Post by: AegisGrimm
I actually like the female Eldar. I may have to grab one as a single figure for my ancient Eldar army.
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Post by: Kanluwen
aracersss wrote:5pt guardsmen ... IT'S REAL REPEAT IT'S BLOODY REAL ... PREPARE FOR TROOP HIKES! ... no more 7pt fire warriors T_T
Neophyte Hybrids have the same kit as Guardsmen but were 5pts.
Nothing's confirmed until it is. And if it is actually the case, Guard just got nerfed againbecause of soup.
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Post by: BrookM
Chaps, this is not the topic for discussing any potential point changes, please keep the discussion on target.
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
Charax wrote:They called the Black Legion guy with a Hammer Black Hammer. For real.
Obsidius = Obsidian = Black
Mallex = Malleus = Hammer
That is a bit silly
Didn’t you notice the Warhammer 40,000 logo? Of course it is.
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Post by: Galas
Ferrus Manus, Corvus Corax, Argron the Angry guy... Khârn the Betrayer...Valkya the Valkyria...
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
lord_blackfang wrote:Also continuing with useless and nonsensical rules just to match the model count in the box. 4 cultists or 7 traitor guard, yaaay!
So you’d prefer units of 10 for both. That you can’t Field from a single box?
Oh no. You’d just complain about that very thing instead.
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Post by: Crimson
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: lord_blackfang wrote:Also continuing with useless and nonsensical rules just to match the model count in the box. 4 cultists or 7 traitor guard, yaaay!
So you’d prefer units of 10 for both. That you can’t Field from a single box?
Oh no. You’d just complain about that very thing instead.
I'd prefer if they would not have fixed unit sizes.
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Post by: Tyranid Horde
H.B.M.C. wrote:That implies that there are non-Chaos Beastmen!!! Loyalist Beastmen in a new Guard Codex confirmed!!
(/reading too much into it)
Heresy! Unsanctioned abhumans!
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Post by: Dryaktylus
BrookM wrote:Some of those names are pure cringe.
Charax wrote:They called the Black Legion guy with a Hammer Black Hammer. For real.
Obsidius = Obsidian = Black
Mallex = Malleus = Hammer
That is a bit silly
Rein and Raus... that's a new level since the old WFRP days. 
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Post by: Voss
Is that supposed to translate as 'in and out?'
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: lord_blackfang wrote:Also continuing with useless and nonsensical rules just to match the model count in the box. 4 cultists or 7 traitor guard, yaaay!
So you’d prefer units of 10 for both. That you can’t Field from a single box?
Oh no. You’d just complain about that very thing instead.
I don't actually complain all the time for the sake of complaining, I only complain when GW does something bad. Admittedly, this is almost all the time, so it's no wonder that you got the wrong impression.
If GW wanted cross compatibility, they could also put a sensible number of minis in the box. They could also leave out stupid entries like a unit of 2 CSM. What the hell does that serve? They can already be fielded as normal CSM.
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Post by: Crimson
lord_blackfang wrote:
If GW wanted cross compatibility, they could also put a sensible number of minis in the box. They could also leave out stupid entries like a unit of 2 CSM. What the hell does that serve? They can already be fielded as normal CSM.
Having less than normal unit size is just a plus though. If you want to use just these two blokes, you can. And as you said, if you want to build a full squad out of these minis, you can already do that too.
It's a bit weird that you can have unit of two marines... or unit of five or more. An unit of three or four marines is completely out of question!
But I only wished the things specific to this box like the beastmen, negavolts etc. had more variable unit sizes, so that you could more freely combine models from different boxes. Oh, and a horrible though occurred to me, these all units are probably unique like the Rogue Trader stuff, so you actually can't ever have more than one box's worth, even in separate units!
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Post by: godardc
I haven't seen this:
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Post by: Dryaktylus
Voss wrote:Is that supposed to translate as 'in and out?'
Yes, it's the short form of herein and heraus (or hinein and hinaus).
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Post by: spartiatis
Since no one else has commented on that, am I the only one ( SM fanboy ) that would have loved to see a Space Marine or guardsmen as a playable character in Blackstone Fortress?
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Post by: lord_blackfang
 Crimson wrote:
But I only wished the things specific to this box like the beastmen, negavolts etc. had more variable unit sizes, so that you could more freely combine models from different boxes. Oh, and a horrible though occurred to me, these all units are probably unique like the Rogue Trader stuff, so you actually can't ever have more than one box's worth, even in separate units!
Probably a policy to combat bits sellers, just like no-model-no-rules combats alternative minis.
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Post by: Crimson
There will probably be expansions. Didn't they ad bunch of AOS characters as playable heroes in the Silver Tower?
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Post by: Geifer
 Dryaktylus wrote:Voss wrote:Is that supposed to translate as 'in and out?'
Yes, it's the short form of herein and heraus (or hinein and hinaus).
Only question left open is if it's in the heist sense or if the Eldar Ranger's pose is now explained by her having to worry about something.
spartiatis wrote:Since no one else has commented on that, am I the only one ( SM fanboy ) that would have loved to see a Space Marine or guardsmen as a playable character in Blackstone Fortress?
Given the host of additional character cards for the fantasy versions, I expect there won't be a shortage of Marine characters in a separate card pack. Especially Primaris Lieutenants. Predominantly Primaris Lieutenants.
I'd expect the exact same approach, really. If it has a plastic blister, it'll get rules.
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Post by: Inquisitor Kallus
lord_blackfang wrote: Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: lord_blackfang wrote:Also continuing with useless and nonsensical rules just to match the model count in the box. 4 cultists or 7 traitor guard, yaaay!
So you’d prefer units of 10 for both. That you can’t Field from a single box?
Oh no. You’d just complain about that very thing instead.
I don't actually complain all the time for the sake of complaining, I only complain when GW does something bad. Admittedly, this is almost all the time, so it's no wonder that you got the wrong impression.
If GW wanted cross compatibility, they could also put a sensible number of minis in the box. They could also leave out stupid entries like a unit of 2 CSM. What the hell does that serve? They can already be fielded as normal CSM.
I agree with Grotsnik, pretty much all your posts are moaning about something. The points serve people who may have first strike, or be running mini scenarios, playing small games and only have a few minis etc. Just because it doesn't serve YOU doesn't mean someone else won't make use of it.
On the subject of Blackstone Fortress, it looks pretty ace. The models look great and the ability to do your own adventures (according to the description) is nice as opposed to just a purely self contained game with a number of set scenarios.
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Post by: Nevelon
With those unit sizes I hope they are unique units. If not filling detachments with pairs of CSM is going to be stupidly cheep.
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Post by: His Master's Voice
So you can play the game solo. That's a nice feature.
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Post by: ecurtz
I know everything must be 40k compatible because that's the money maker, but it's pretty annoying to have them shoehorned in to 40k with absurd unit sizes rather than given Kill Team rules where they'd fit perfectly...
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
ecurtz wrote:I know everything must be 40k compatible because that's the money maker, but it's pretty annoying to have them shoehorned in to 40k with absurd unit sizes rather than given Kill Team rules where they'd fit perfectly...
Oh stop.
It’s a bonus. Another way to use the models you’ve just bought, outside their main game.
You cannot legitimately criticise nice little bonuses like that.
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Post by: Crimson
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:ecurtz wrote:I know everything must be 40k compatible because that's the money maker, but it's pretty annoying to have them shoehorned in to 40k with absurd unit sizes rather than given Kill Team rules where they'd fit perfectly...
Oh stop.
It’s a bonus. Another way to use the models you’ve just bought, outside their main game.
You cannot legitimately criticise nice little bonuses like that.
Well, I think that lack of Killteam rules is a completely valid complaint, these would be perfect for it. I hope they release such rules as a PDF or something.
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Post by: Thargrim
spartiatis wrote:Since no one else has commented on that, am I the only one ( SM fanboy ) that would have loved to see a Space Marine or guardsmen as a playable character in Blackstone Fortress?
I would have loved to see a fallen angel, in particular. I hope they expand the game with more characters in an expansion pack...I thought I heard one was announced.
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Post by: xttz
Most of these models can be run in Killteam using rules from a existing unit like Guardsmen of Chaos Cultists. Not sure why you need new rules that do something very slightly differently.
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Post by: Chopstick
ETB and Colored plastic huh....
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Post by: Galas
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:ecurtz wrote:I know everything must be 40k compatible because that's the money maker, but it's pretty annoying to have them shoehorned in to 40k with absurd unit sizes rather than given Kill Team rules where they'd fit perfectly...
Oh stop.
It’s a bonus. Another way to use the models you’ve just bought, outside their main game.
You cannot legitimately criticise nice little bonuses like that.
It is not a bonus when it is designed with that in mind. Or do you seriously believe GW thinks this game will be the next big thing? These models have been made with the idea of people pluging them into their W40K armies, as count-as or whatever.
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Post by: Crimson
 xttz wrote:Most of these models can be run in Killteam using rules from a existing unit like Guardsmen of Chaos Cultists. Not sure why you need new rules that do something very slightly differently.
Most, but not all. Obviously there is no reason to duplicate rules for units that already have them, but not all of these do.
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Post by: Mr Morden
xttz wrote:Most of these models can be run in Killteam using rules from a existing unit like Guardsmen of Chaos Cultists. Not sure why you need new rules that do something very slightly differently.
We do it for Marines....endlessly.
Variety is good - sadly Kill Team already has hugely annoying and arbitrary limits on units that can and can't be inlcuded.
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
lord_blackfang wrote:They could also leave out stupid entries like a unit of 2 CSM. What the hell does that serve? They can already be fielded as normal CSM.
It means I can immediately use the models I get in my brand-new game in 40k, without having to buy anything else. It means I can get some games in using Chaos models, and then I might think about a new army. Silver Tower was the same, until Tzaangors and Kairic Acolytes got a separate release, and it was also true of Deathwatch Overkill. Automatically Appended Next Post:  Galas wrote: Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:ecurtz wrote:I know everything must be 40k compatible because that's the money maker, but it's pretty annoying to have them shoehorned in to 40k with absurd unit sizes rather than given Kill Team rules where they'd fit perfectly...
Oh stop.
It’s a bonus. Another way to use the models you’ve just bought, outside their main game.
You cannot legitimately criticise nice little bonuses like that.
It is not a bonus when it is designed with that in mind. Or do you seriously believe GW thinks this game will be the next big thing? These models have been made with the idea of people pluging them into their W40K armies, as count-as or whatever.
Of course they have. They did that with every board game they've ever made. I don't see how you can look at that and see it as a negative. However, I think you're very wrong if you're suggesting that's the only intention. They've put out all these different board games because … people like board games, and they like different kinds of board games. If the only reason for this game was to introduce new Chaos Marines, they'd have … released the new box of Chaos Marines that's undoubtedly in production, and not gone to all the effort of creating a board game.
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Post by: BrookM
And we've got an article up: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/04/the-blackstone-fortress-awakens/
EDIT.
TWO WEEK PREORDER WINDOW
Warhammer Quest: Blackstone Fortress will be out soon – you’ll be able to pre-order your copy on the 10th of November. Demand is expected to be incredibly high for this game, and so, to make sure everyone can get their copy, we’re extending our pre-order period by an extra week. You’ll be able to find Blackstone Fortress on shelves from Black(stone) Friday, on the 23rd of November.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
this is the most interesting bit Warhammer Quest: Blackstone Fortress is the basis for a brand-new series that’ll expand your game and allow you to continue your adventures. Future expansions will contain new battles to fight, enemies to conquer and champions to choose from. You can buy Warhammer Quest: Blackstone Fortress in the confidence that the game will be supported for a long, long time to come
a main studio game that they're planning to turn into a long running product like the specialist games stuff
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Post by: kendoka
H.B.M.C. wrote:That implies that there are non-Chaos Beastmen!!! Loyalist Beastmen in a new Guard Codex confirmed!!
(/reading too much into it)
Nahh - but there are a few non-chaotic beastmen around, such as:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Gor-Half-horn-Beastman-Bounty-Hunter-2017
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Post by: Yodhrin
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:ecurtz wrote:I know everything must be 40k compatible because that's the money maker, but it's pretty annoying to have them shoehorned in to 40k with absurd unit sizes rather than given Kill Team rules where they'd fit perfectly...
Oh stop.
It’s a bonus. Another way to use the models you’ve just bought, outside their main game.
You cannot legitimately criticise nice little bonuses like that.
"Well yes, OK, the free sample of cheese at the supermarket gave you super-Ebola, but it was free, you ingrate!"
Being a bonus doesn't make it immune to criticism, because it could well have been a better bonus.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Also of note, there's a 2 week pre-order
Warhammer Quest: Blackstone Fortress will be out soon – you’ll be able to pre-order your copy on the 10th of November. Demand is expected to be incredibly high for this game, and so, to make sure everyone can get their copy, we’re extending our pre-order period by an extra week. You’ll be able to find Blackstone Fortress on shelves from Black(stone) Friday, on the 23rd of November.
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
Looks like my next Necromunda campaign might have some house rules coming …
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Post by: ImAGeek
 Yodhrin wrote: Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:ecurtz wrote:I know everything must be 40k compatible because that's the money maker, but it's pretty annoying to have them shoehorned in to 40k with absurd unit sizes rather than given Kill Team rules where they'd fit perfectly...
Oh stop.
It’s a bonus. Another way to use the models you’ve just bought, outside their main game.
You cannot legitimately criticise nice little bonuses like that.
"Well yes, OK, the free sample of cheese at the supermarket gave you super-Ebola, but it was free, you ingrate!"
Being a bonus doesn't make it immune to criticism, because it could well have been a better bonus.
In that example, the cheese makes you actively worse. This is more like ‘they’re giving out free cheese at the supermarket, but it’s a cheese I don’t like’.
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Post by: Mr_Rose
Looking at those board sections… I now want a set of conversion rules to allow them to be used in Warhammer Underworlds. Looks like they’re the same size of hex.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
Voss wrote:Is that supposed to translate as 'in and out?'
Kinky!
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Post by: Flinty
Oh wow. It can be played 1 player... SOLD! I was about to pass and save £100 damnit.
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Post by: Elbows
Very intrigued by the idea of a 2-3 hour gaming sessions...means it may be less of a board game than previous. The "create your own adventures" definitely sounds like a Warhammer Quest (original) style deck of cards creating a dungeon as you go, etc.
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Post by: GoatboyBeta
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/04/the-blackstone-fortress-awakens/
Fingers crossed the future expansions are more than the repacks of existing models that Silver Tower got.
Edit - Here's a thought, what if they pulled double duty as Blackstone and Kill team expansions?
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Elbows wrote:Very intrigued by the idea of a 2-3 hour gaming sessions...means it may be less of a board game than previous. The "create your own adventures" definitely sounds like a Warhammer Quest (original) style deck of cards creating a dungeon as you go, etc.
It might also be that simple and shallow interactions take ages to resolve because of convoluted mechanics, like 40k itself.
I am impressed with the model range and the fact that even a lot of the duplicate bodies come with alternate heads and arms.
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Post by: Danny76
Favourite models then everyone?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
15 bad guy sculpts doubles,
And the chaos champion/leader too.
Not too bad to me!
3
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Post by: Flinty
The new traitor guard look great. Much better proportions compared to ghe current gorilla Cadian kit.
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Post by: rollawaythestone
The models are fantastic. The Traitor Guard especially. Love the Spindle Drones and the Navigator and Robot especially.
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Post by: Flinty
Also are the autopistol/maul models female, or are they just a bit less encumbered with gubbinz than the rest?
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Best: Navigator, Priest, Psykers, Chaos Lord
Worst: Hobbits (90s level sculpts with feet as big as their torso)
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Flinty wrote:The new traitor guard look great. Much better proportions compared to ghe current gorilla Cadian kit.
Oh wow, you're right. Their proportions are a little different. Maybe we'll see a loyalist version down the line. They are still cadian though. Or...are they? They sort of look like traitor cadians, but there's something different about them, aside from the chaos stuff.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Flinty wrote:Also are the autopistol/maul models female, or are they just a bit less encumbered with gubbinz than the rest?
They do look a bit more slender, as does the pair right behind them, top right.
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Post by: barboggo
Danny76 wrote:Favourite models then everyone?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
15 bad guy sculpts doubles,
And the chaos champion/leader too.
Not too bad to me!
Yeah I pretty much love every model except you know who. Model-wise this set gets a 9/10 from me.
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Post by: Insane Ivan
Curious what this continued support will mean for this game. Additional heroes and adversaries, as in new and unique models, not repackaged existing stuff? Could be a great reason for them to explore even more stuff from the fluff. I guess more tilesets too.
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Post by: BrookM
White Dwarf will also no doubt provide extra scenarios and the odd pack of cards like previous issues did for the fantasy variant.
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Post by: Souleater
My favourite model is the Missonary. Looks mean and busineesslike, not busy with details.
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Post by: Chairman Aeon
BrookM wrote:White Dwarf will also no doubt provide extra scenarios and the odd pack of cards like previous issues did for the fantasy variant.
That's both the smart and dangerous thing for me, White Dwarfs with WQ: BSF character cards. Here, use these models you already have for that sweet new boardgames you just got...that'll be $10 please.
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Post by: amazingturtles
I still think the kroot is my favorite. He's got style.
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Post by: Elbows
Bizarrely my favourite sculpts are the new cultists and the beastmen. The Chaos psykers are well done too. The heroes are okay, the highlights being the main dude and the priest (the rest are "okay"). However, the bad guy selection is really pretty solid for a game like this.
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Post by: Voss
 Souleater wrote:My favourite model is the Missonary. Looks mean and busineesslike, not busy with details.
Out of the heroes, definitely, hands down.
Still like the traitor guard, psykers and maybe beastmen more (want close-ups on the latter. Are they cyclopean? Would be very cool)
barboggo wrote:
Yeah I pretty much love every model except you know who. Model-wise this set gets a 9/10 from me.
You mean Miss Dislocated-a-leg-to-fill-a-32mm-base?
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Post by: MothCult
While all the models in this set look amazing, I think its safe to say the bad guy side won overall, just so many strong models.
Will be needing a couple copies of the Eldar and Missonary ladies, the latter I want to try and convert for AoS.
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Post by: Sabotage!
I've got to second the Kill Team chatter on this one. How cool would it be to spruce up the CSM kill team by giving them an option to take Traitor Guard and Beastmen?
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Post by: ElvisJuice
That'll be a White Dwarf article for sure. Really surprised if that doesn't happen.
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Post by: drbored
Loving these models. Not sure why they're going to give them piddly datasheets for 40k instead of just waiting to fit them into a codex or something, but ok.
As for Kill Team, I don't know why people want separate rules for traitor guard when you can just take them as cultists in Kill Team. They can take flamers and heavy stubbers and they already come with some flamers. Boom, easy deal.
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Post by: Daedalus81
drbored wrote:Not sure why they're going to give them piddly datasheets for 40k instead of just waiting to fit them into a codex or something, but ok.
I guess they could just not give rules, but then people would complain about that, too.
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Post by: timd
Good stuffs are the priest, missionary, navigator and traitor guard, except for the grenade guys. Someday GW will figure out how to throw a grenade. These guys and the new Delaque grenade poses are complete fails.
T
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Post by: Rayvon
I quite like the little ratlings, apart from the feet, they look far too big.
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Post by: warspawned
I'm liking it all personally. I don't even mind the duplicates.
That ratling sniper - Stumper Muckstart maybe  That was my first thought anyway. I doubt it but it would be nice.
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Post by: bullyboy
Favourite...Ranger and navigator, least....Rogue Trader and Robot
On bad guys side....Guardsmen favourite, chaos warriors least
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Post by: mortar_crew
These traitor guards are incredible!!
I would prefer they towned down a bit on the fur and chainmail
thingy, but the proportions, poses and (Oh Lord!!) the heads
are first rate stuff!
I am so in for a box, may be two, just for them.
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Post by: Zwan1One
In Warhammer Quest: Blackstone Fortress, you’ll pick an explorer and embark on adventures – either solo or with your friends – accommodating 1-5 players per game. Your character will grow, develop and pick up new gear between runs, with each journey offering greater rewards – and greater dangers.
This is quite promising. It looks like you won’t need a gm to play. It always seems odd to be 4vs1 and much prefer all working together to overcome the odds.
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Post by: dan2026
If I had to guess I would venture that a Lost and the Damned book is on the horizon now. GW now have computer designs and molds of traitor guard, heretic psykers, beastmen and other weird cultists.
That's like half a codex right there!
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Post by: Galas
My favourite are the Ratlings and the woman imperial Zealot... and those are the ones I'm gonna buy separated.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
 dan2026 wrote:If I had to guess I would venture that a Lost and the Damned book is on the horizon now. GW now have computer designs and molds of traitor guard, heretic psykers, beastmen and other weird cultists.
That's like half a codex right there!
Finally, Chaos soup! Automatically Appended Next Post: As an interesting side note, what about being issued an autogun instead of a lasgun makes a guardsman so upset he is 100% guaranteed to turn traitor?
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Post by: xeen
OMG. these chaos models look great. The traitor guard are amazing.
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Post by: Dudeface
lord_blackfang wrote: dan2026 wrote:If I had to guess I would venture that a Lost and the Damned book is on the horizon now. GW now have computer designs and molds of traitor guard, heretic psykers, beastmen and other weird cultists.
That's like half a codex right there!
Finally, Chaos soup!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an interesting side note, what about being issued an autogun instead of a lasgun makes a guardsman so upset he is 100% guaranteed to turn traitor?
I was more impressed they have more badass looking flamers than normal guardsmen.
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
lord_blackfang wrote: dan2026 wrote:If I had to guess I would venture that a Lost and the Damned book is on the horizon now. GW now have computer designs and molds of traitor guard, heretic psykers, beastmen and other weird cultists.
That's like half a codex right there!
Finally, Chaos soup!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an interesting side note, what about being issued an autogun instead of a lasgun makes a guardsman so upset he is 100% guaranteed to turn traitor?
Aren't those las weapons? They don't look like autoguns to me.
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Post by: Irbis
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Oh wow, you're right. Their proportions are a little different.
Maybe we'll see a loyalist version down the line. They are still cadian though.
Or...are they? They sort of look like traitor cadians, but there's something different about them, aside from the chaos stuff.
Funnily enough, they look very similar to these recent new style IG pictures, especially helmets/masks:
So I'd say a multipart kit featuring them is pretty likely...
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Post by: godardc
Thoses are just Cadian with FW gas mask upgrade kit
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Post by: Irbis
Yeah, and primaris are just conversions of SM with some pro-create slapped on?
Seriously, take a look at a Cadian, they have way different proportions, gear, weapons, and helmets, but sure, they are ""just"" Cadians. Well, if we ignore these inconvenient details as well as the fact FW parts never feature in GW art, or the fact FW gas mask kit literally looks nothing like this, yes, they are 100% Cadians!
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Whilst Ibris is a true champ at starting every one one of his posts with some variation of "You are wrong!", I gotta say I'm with him on this one.
That artwork above doesn't look like Cadians w/Gasmasks. I could very easily see these Traitor Guardsmen not only getting a full kit, but being based upon the CAD files of a new Guardsmen kit.
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Post by: Mr_Rose
… why do artists give lasguns muzzle flash? I… just… *argh*
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Post by: Voss
Mr_Rose wrote:… why do artists give lasguns muzzle flash? I… just… *argh*
Science accurate lasers are really, really boring.
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Whilst they are similar, there are subtle differences in armor design and uniform.
They look more like a cross between cadians and steel legion than pure cadian to me.
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Post by: Tiberius501
I am in love with the Navigator, Kroot and Missionary. And those Trator Guard, as everyone has said, look ace. Wish the Traders could be used in Kill Team but I highly doubt it with those point costs.
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Post by: Lockark
So at one point I recalled a rumor claiming these would be Khorgors, but these seem to be undivided? If we got a kit what did both 40k and AoS Gors that looked like these, I wouldn't complain tho. This is a good look.
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Post by: streetsamurai
so there will be continuous support for this game with numerous expansions. Really nice.
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Post by: drazz
Quick question. Seems like there are point for the explorers for 40k use, but are we clear on who or how to use them? Any keywords shared?
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Post by: Lord Perversor
I guess it depends on the model datasheet that may come in one of the 3-4 bookleets the box come.
The picks shows up to 5 different books in the box, wich i guess may be for rules, campaigns datasheets etc etc.
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Post by: Snrub
Be still my throbbing erection, look at those traitor guard. 
The good guys are nice as a whole, but the traitors guard alone make this an auto-buy for me. I'm seeing lots of conversion potential with them.
I don't even think they'd look super out of place next to the existing DV and FW cultists.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Mmmm.....ongoing support promised.
Definitely, 100% in for this.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Warhammer Quest: Blackstone Fortress is the basis for a brand-new series that’ll expand your game and allow you to continue your adventures. Future expansions will contain new battles to fight, enemies to conquer and champions to choose from. You can buy Warhammer Quest: Blackstone Fortress in the confidence that the game will be supported for a long, long time to come.
If they're clever, and looking at Silver Tower and Hammerhal this has yet to be demonstrated, then the game will have a bestiary of sorts, like original Quest. The only reason I own so much WFB stuff is because of that Bestiary. I can do little Undead and Warriors Chaos/Beasts of Chaos forces simply because of all the options in the original WHQ Bestiary. The chance to adds tons of new stuff - marauding Freebooterz, Necron constructs, Tyranid vanguard organisms, rogue Mechanicus constructs, (very) lost Tau, more Freezbooters (!) - so many different things that could be added (and sold!) just with a few pages of rules.
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Post by: ch33ky.business
H.B.M.C. wrote:
If they're clever, and looking at Silver Tower and Hammerhal this has yet to be demonstrated, then the game will have a bestiary of sorts, like original Quest.
The only reason I own so much WFB stuff is because of that Bestiary. I can do little Undead and Warriors Chaos/Beasts of Chaos forces simply because of all the options in the original WHQ Bestiary.
The chance to adds tons of new stuff - marauding Freebooterz, Necron constructs, Tyranid vanguard organisms, rogue Mechanicus constructs, (very) lost Tau, more Freezbooters (!) - so many different things that could be added (and sold!) just with a few pages of rules.
I'm not expecting a full bestiary out of the box but yes it would be nice. More likely to see other races added in any expansions I would have thought.
Fingers crossed for decent support.
Personally would love to see something similar to the old advanced space crusade with explorers fighting their way through a nid bioship, think that would also lend itself well to a randomly generated space dungeon crawler.
Really digging everything I've read on this so far, hopefully some good reveals about how it plays this week.
All aboard the hype train!
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Post by: BrookM
Curious to see if this will feature a tie-in novel / novella to go with the main release.
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Post by: Duskweaver
Flinty wrote:Also are the autopistol/maul models female, or are they just a bit less encumbered with gubbinz than the rest?
Two of the Negavolt Dark Mechanicum Cultists look like they might be female, as well. They seem to be less brawny and with smaller hands than the other two.
Between these and the Missionary, it seems like GW's sculptors have finally learned how to design female models without having to give them high heels and boob-plate.
Snark aside, I am pleasantly surprised.
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Post by: mortar_crew
 Snrub wrote:
Be still my throbbing erection, look at those traitor guard.
The good guys are nice as a whole, but the traitors guard alone make this an auto-buy for me. I'm seeing lots of conversion potential with them.
I don't even think they'd look super out of place next to the existing DV and FW cultists.
I second that.
Owning quite alot of the (now gone...) FW militia stuff, I am looking forward to
mixing them also.
Boy that is going to be expensive...
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Post by: Azazelx
Charax wrote:They called the Black Legion guy with a Hammer Black Hammer. For real.
Obsidius = Obsidian = Black
Mallex = Malleus = Hammer
That is a bit silly
I'd like you to meet Ferrus Manus. He's a friend of Tony Stark and Ozzy Osbourne.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Given all the names they could have given him, let's be thankful they went with a laterally shifted phaux-Latin pun.
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Post by: Sunny Side Up
Compared to an angry guy called Angron, a guy with an Iron Hand called Ferrus Manus (did he have that at birth/creation?) overseeing a military force of Iron Hands fond of literal Iron Hands and a military organisation of super marines clad in ultramarine armour called Ultramarines, it's super subtle and downright obscure naming there.
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Post by: Azazelx
drbored wrote:Loving these models. Not sure why they're going to give them piddly datasheets for 40k instead of just waiting to fit them into a codex or something, but ok.
Well, this means you can play them in 40k right out of the box. Immediately. Doesn't mean that some won't feature in future codices.
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Post by: Not Online!!!
lord_blackfang wrote: dan2026 wrote:If I had to guess I would venture that a Lost and the Damned book is on the horizon now. GW now have computer designs and molds of traitor guard, heretic psykers, beastmen and other weird cultists. That's like half a codex right there!
Finally, Chaos soup! Automatically Appended Next Post: As an interesting side note, what about being issued an autogun instead of a lasgun makes a guardsman so upset he is 100% guaranteed to turn traitor?
Probably the abuse they suffer to get to ammo supplies. Consider that a laspack supposedly can be recharged with fire, now try the same with an empty magazine for a gun that works on patrons. there also might be the fact that autguns will make a bigger mess when they hit something, ( 40k standard autoguns are somehwere in between 8mm-10 mm bullets, supposedly, atleast the ones the FW R&H came with) which means big ammounts of blood flow which in turn means Khorne gets a rage boner. As a R&H player you can bet your ass that i want as many of these traitor guardsmen and beastmen as humanly possible!
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Post by: Kdash
As many have said, I’m pretty interested in the Guardsmen especially, from a 40k pov. The one thing I’ll be looking at from that aspect though, is how they will fit into CSM/DG/TS armies (if at all). Even if they don’t, I might pick up a few later on and run them as cultists, especially if they release them as their own kit.
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Post by: Not Online!!!
Actually 7 traitor guardsmen for 35 pts?!?
And yes they will have the same statblock mostlikely?!?
They better get something good out of that 20% higher pts price then.
Jokes aside, why couldn't they make 10 man blocks for these?
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Not Online!!! wrote:Actually 7 traitor guardsmen for 35 pts?!?
And yes they will have the same statblock mostlikely?!?
They better get something good out of that 20% higher pts price then.
Jokes aside, why couldn't they make 10 man blocks for these?
Apparently they are 35 points because they have a flamer.
A flamer is 7 points. Guardsmen are 4 points each and there are 7 of them.
(4*7)+7 = 35
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
 Azazelx wrote:Charax wrote:They called the Black Legion guy with a Hammer Black Hammer. For real.
Obsidius = Obsidian = Black
Mallex = Malleus = Hammer
That is a bit silly
I'd like you to meet Ferrus Manus. He's a friend of Tony Stark and Ozzy Osbourne.
Ferrus manus, Corvus Corax, Lion el'Jonson, Sanguinius, the entirety of the 5th edition Warhammer Armies Lizardmen, all the original Space Dwarf models named after guns, etc, etc, ... Daft puns is part of the setting. In this particular case, it seems pretty justified - it looks like a perfectly reasonable epithet for that character.
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Post by: Not Online!!!
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Not Online!!! wrote:Actually 7 traitor guardsmen for 35 pts?!?
And yes they will have the same statblock mostlikely?!?
They better get something good out of that 20% higher pts price then.
Jokes aside, why couldn't they make 10 man blocks for these?
Apparently they are 35 points because they have a flamer.
A flamer is 7 points. Guardsmen are 4 points each and there are 7 of them.
(4*7)+7 = 35
Didin't consider that they might bake the cost for the flamer in, however do we know that they did that?
Secondly they might also could be cultists, for all we know. Cost the same as guardsmen.
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Post by: Sherrypie
Not Online!!! wrote: CthuluIsSpy wrote:Not Online!!! wrote:Actually 7 traitor guardsmen for 35 pts?!?
And yes they will have the same statblock mostlikely?!?
They better get something good out of that 20% higher pts price then.
Jokes aside, why couldn't they make 10 man blocks for these?
Apparently they are 35 points because they have a flamer.
A flamer is 7 points. Guardsmen are 4 points each and there are 7 of them.
(4*7)+7 = 35
Didin't consider that they might bake the cost for the flamer in, however do we know that they did that?
Secondly they might also could be cultists, for all we know. Cost the same as guardsmen.
The leaked photo with points says "wargear included" so yes, the flamer would be in there. As their 40k stats will probably be for cultists, that doesn't surprise me (and gives hope for Chapter Approved to raise Guardsmen cost to 5 ppm).
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Post by: Not Online!!!
Kdash wrote:As many have said, I’m pretty interested in the Guardsmen especially, from a 40k pov. The one thing I’ll be looking at from that aspect though, is how they will fit into CSM/ DG/ TS armies (if at all). Even if they don’t, I might pick up a few later on and run them as cultists, especially if they release them as their own kit.
Probably along the line of IA13? Or along the line of the old campaign book, maybee a hybrid of the two?
There are ways and if we get lucky we get a list not to disimilar to the IA13 R&H list, would also equally encompass dark mechanicum in there, since one of the demagogue (leader warlord options) was a heretek magos upgrade, which btw was immensly fun (50 man blob gets a fnp6+ for 10 pts? gimme!)
Edit: it seems my eyesight got poorer.
But would they name them traitor guardsmen then?
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
The datasheet for the models in this game will probably be for exactly the models in the game; two squads of six troopers and a leader each, one trooper with a flamer, one with an autopistol and close combat weapon, one with a laspistol and close combat weapon and a leader with laspistol and chainsword. A more generic datasheet with equipment options will come when we see a separate box released.
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Post by: Not Online!!!
Do we also know what's up with the wierd unit sizes?
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
Probably for game balance reasons, and what fits on the sprue.
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Post by: Wolf_in_Human_Shape
Purely based on the number of models in the box, it would seem.
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Post by: Insane Ivan
That's just because that's the number of models in the WHQ: BF box. Doesn't mean anything for unit sizes if any of these units ever get released with a box set of their own. The 40k rules in this box are just to allow people to use the models in regular 40k, and I don't think you should read anything more in it. If these models ever get their own boxes and/or codexes, their rules/unit sizes/points costs will quite likely be different.
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Post by: Irbis
Not Online!!! wrote:Probably the abuse they suffer to get to ammo supplies. Consider that a laspack supposedly can be recharged with fire, now try the same with an empty magazine for a gun that works on patrons.
there also might be the fact that autguns will make a bigger mess when they hit something, ( 40k standard autoguns are somehwere in between 8cm-10 cm bullets, supposedly, atleast the ones the FW R&H came with) which means big ammounts of blood flow which in turn means Khorne gets a rage boner.
Laspacks can't really be recharged that way (yes, you can theoretically do that but that damages them and besides, even if they were 100% efficient at absorbing heat energy you'd need a really big fire burning in enclosed oven for pretty long to gather energy for even a few piddly shots, though it's not like GW writers have any sense of scale).
Also, 10 cm? This is how 10 cm gun looks for comparison:
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
Exactly. the datasheets for the Genestealer Cult models in Deathwatch Overkill had a unit of two purestrain genestealers, no more no less. When the codex came out, what a surprise, you could have a different number in a unit.
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Post by: Cinderspirit
Actually you get 7 cultists times two. But still, 2 champs and 2 flamers need to be split into two units.
My guess is there will be a second sprue with 3 additional guys and weapon options in the final box of cultists.
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Post by: Not Online!!!
 Irbis wrote:Not Online!!! wrote:Probably the abuse they suffer to get to ammo supplies. Consider that a laspack supposedly can be recharged with fire, now try the same with an empty magazine for a gun that works on patrons. there also might be the fact that autguns will make a bigger mess when they hit something, ( 40k standard autoguns are somehwere in between 8cm-10 cm bullets, supposedly, atleast the ones the FW R&H came with) which means big ammounts of blood flow which in turn means Khorne gets a rage boner.
Laspacks can't really be recharged that way (yes, you can theoretically do that but that damages them and besides, even if they were 100% efficient at absorbing heat energy you'd need a really big fire burning in enclosed oven for pretty long to gather energy for even a few piddly shots, though it's not like GW writers have any sense of scale). Also, 10 cm? This is how 10 cm gun looks for comparison:
Sorry meant mm, was a tad to excited there. Edit: that is a STuH 42 i belive right? then this would be a 10.5 cm something no?
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
Cinderspirit wrote:Actually you get 7 cultists times two. But still, 2 champs and 2 flamers need to be split into two units.
Yes; six troopers and a leader. 6 + 1 = 7.
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Post by: Not Online!!!
I feel they want to hint something:
Traitor guardsmen, explicitly not cultists.
Rogue psyker, well known R&H HQ however , they generaly showed up as 1-5 and more recently in covens off 5.
beastmen,
Negavolt cultists,
on the other hand you got black legionaires at 2 each 13pts like regular csm.
Then there is our hammer bearing friend, which is quite expensive. Probably has some sort of rule?
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
 ch33ky.business wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:
If they're clever, and looking at Silver Tower and Hammerhal this has yet to be demonstrated, then the game will have a bestiary of sorts, like original Quest.
The only reason I own so much WFB stuff is because of that Bestiary. I can do little Undead and Warriors Chaos/Beasts of Chaos forces simply because of all the options in the original WHQ Bestiary.
The chance to adds tons of new stuff - marauding Freebooterz, Necron constructs, Tyranid vanguard organisms, rogue Mechanicus constructs, (very) lost Tau, more Freezbooters (!) - so many different things that could be added (and sold!) just with a few pages of rules.
I'm not expecting a full bestiary out of the box but yes it would be nice. More likely to see other races added in any expansions I would have thought.
Fingers crossed for decent support.
Personally would love to see something similar to the old advanced space crusade with explorers fighting their way through a nid bioship, think that would also lend itself well to a randomly generated space dungeon crawler.
Really digging everything I've read on this so far, hopefully some good reveals about how it plays this week.
All aboard the hype train!
I'd love to see character packs done, featuring new models, rather than 40k repack.
Then, dungeon expansions, as they did for the Original Quest.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
H.B.M.C. wrote:Whilst Ibris is a true champ at starting every one one of his posts with some variation of "You are wrong!"
You are wrong! It's Irbis not Ibris.
 MothCult wrote:While all the models in this set look amazing, I think its safe to say the bad guy side won overall, just so many strong models.
I'd say Explorer won though just with the chainflamer model that is LOVE <3 <3 <3!!
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Post by: warboss
Is it just me or does the chaos leader look primaris sized?
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Whilst I'm hesitant to sound anywhere near sure, I suspect it's just the perspective?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
In terms of the expansions, I'd like to expand my thinking on those (I know, I'm great!).
Dungeon Expansions.
Additional tiles, scenarios. Tiles and tokens to suit. Then, a collection of new gribblies to fight. These could be an interesting way to re-do existing kits outside of the Codex Cycle. For instance. Orks. Bunch of Boyz, Loota/Burna, and a sprue of X new Kommandos, in plastic. Decent number of new models for Quest players, reason to buy it for Ork players, and temptation to get them into Quest.
Character expansions. Not. Repacks. Quest shouldn't be about Mighty Chaplains etc wandering off on their own. It should be used to explore the 'fringe' of 40k. Show us new stuff, not recycle existing.
And if they must use existing characters, give us alternate sculpts, yeah?
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Post by: Insane Ivan
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Additional tiles, scenarios. Tiles and tokens to suit. Then, a collection of new gribblies to fight. These could be an interesting way to re-do existing kits outside of the Codex Cycle. For instance. Orks. Bunch of Boyz, Loota/Burna, and a sprue of X new Kommandos, in plastic. Decent number of new models for Quest players, reason to buy it for Ork players, and temptation to get them into Quest.
If they do new Orks in a WHQ expansion, I'm certainly hoping for Freebootaz, which would fit thematically better than Kommandos, and are also a lot more "fringe". Of course, Freebootaz would still be "boyz", of a sort. Eldar corsairs would be a good fit also. On the more boring side, I think any kind of Necron and Genestealer cult would also be a good fit, though I'd deem genestealers very unlikely (as they already had their own "dungeon crawler" in Space Hulk). Perhaps we'll see more races previously not available in plastic, like Hrud, Enslavers, Demiurg, etc.
On the hero side, I'd say Adeptus Mechanicus and Inquisition would be obvious factions for more characters, especially from the more fringe factions (like a Magos Biologis, or Ordo Chronos agents). There's resumably dozens more Imperial and Xenos characters that could be part of the heroes.
If anything, I'd say regular marines are the most unlikely, as they don't seem to fit in the theme, to me (especially as Marines hardly ever wander about on their own). Of course, that probably won't stop GW, but it's encouarging that this box will only have 3 Space Marines, all of them Chaos - that means they'll be proper powerhouses, as they should be - far more scary than all the (Chaos) fodder.
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Post by: warboss
It looks to me like a 40mm base and he's definitely hulking over it like a mid 2000's terminator model. YMMV.
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Post by: Albino Squirrel
Is this going to come with a spure of a bunch of random base debris? Or is that stuff from an existing basing kit?
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Post by: BrookM
Looks like the debris on the bases is unique. The skull on the base of the Chaos Lord certainly is new.
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Post by: ImAGeek
 warboss wrote:Is it just me or does the chaos leader look primaris sized?
He doesn’t look much taller than the other 2, and Chaos Lords fluffwise are meant to be big.
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Post by: Jadenim
The bases also appear to be smooth, rather than having the usual GW “orange peel” texture; I wonder if they’re custom bases with the debris moulded on?
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Post by: Cephalobeard
Unlikely, as the rubble on the right CSM model is ontop of the side of his foot, as well.
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Post by: zamerion
i saw this on facebook
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Post by: Galas
If they make them bigger but keep the odd chibi-marines proportions... eeh... thats not a middle ground that I actually like very much. Maybe is only because the pose that I feel like they have odd porportions.
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Post by: changemod
Galas wrote:If they make them bigger but keep the odd chibi-marines proportions... eeh... thats not a middle ground that I actually like very much. Maybe is only because the pose that I feel like they have odd porportions.
Honestly I strongly dislike the proportions of Primaris, they just look like humans in power armour instead of Astartes.
The deathwatch veterans and rubrics pretty much hit the nail on the head.
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Post by: Irbis
The rubble looks like a few bits of cut up sprue with some sand sprinkled around to mask super glue stains...
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Post by: xttz
I was about to post this one. Crazy how far GW scale creep has progressed over the years!
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Post by: Albino Squirrel
Looks like some of the debris/skulls are attached to feet, others are separate. Can be seen more easily in the picture of the traitor guardsmen, since it has doubled models.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
xttz wrote:I was about to post this one. Crazy how far GW scale creep has progressed over the years!
Take my exalt !
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Post by: EnTyme
changemod wrote: Galas wrote:If they make them bigger but keep the odd chibi-marines proportions... eeh... thats not a middle ground that I actually like very much. Maybe is only because the pose that I feel like they have odd porportions.
Honestly I strongly dislike the proportions of Primaris, they just look like humans in power armour instead of Astartes.
The deathwatch veterans and rubrics pretty much hit the nail on the head.
I agree with this. The squatty marine proportions are to me the iconic Space Marine proportions. Primaris just look odd to me. I think if you were to actually see a Primaris out of his armor he'd look lanky and weird.
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Post by: Elbows
So far, everything looks intriguing - far more indepth at a glance than the AoS versions...which is not a bad thing.
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Post by: Voss
 EnTyme wrote:changemod wrote: Galas wrote:If they make them bigger but keep the odd chibi-marines proportions... eeh... thats not a middle ground that I actually like very much. Maybe is only because the pose that I feel like they have odd porportions.
Honestly I strongly dislike the proportions of Primaris, they just look like humans in power armour instead of Astartes.
The deathwatch veterans and rubrics pretty much hit the nail on the head.
I agree with this. The squatty marine proportions are to me the iconic Space Marine proportions. Primaris just look odd to me. I think if you were to actually see a Primaris out of his armor he'd look lanky and weird.
Better than a classic marine out of armor. I think you'd find his limbs don't connect.
zamerion wrote:https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/05/5th-nov-blackstone-fortress-unboxedgw-homepage-post-1/
Unboxing!
I really want a good pic of the beastmen. Centered and in focus.
Hidden vault envelope: 40k and/or kill team rules?
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Post by: rollawaythestone
I hope they make other random monsters like the Ambull here on the card.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Yup yup yup. Conviction to buy this at an all time high!
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Post by: xerxeshavelock
Hidden vault will probably be a second campaign.
Definitely getting a Horizon Zero Dawn vibe from this one.
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Post by: DaveC
So they got the whole Chaos side including options (other than the Lord) on 1 sprue
and heroes are on 3 sprues
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Folks.
I see in the unboxing thst there’s a sealed envelope included, only to be opened once one has completed the game.
I trust we can all be good sports about this, and not issue spoilers about what is contained?
I for one am defo into keeping it as a reward thing. But even if you’re one to just dive on in (any why not!), can we please keep to spoiler tags about it?
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Post by: Cinderspirit
Isnt that 1 sprue not only half the chaos part?
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Post by: Kanluwen
Yes--it's two of the same Chaos sprue.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
It’ll be doubled up in the box
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Post by: Tyranid Horde
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Folks.
I see in the unboxing thst there’s a sealed envelope included, only to be opened once one has completed the game.
I trust we can all be good sports about this, and not issue spoilers about what is contained?
I for one am defo into keeping it as a reward thing. But even if you’re one to just dive on in (any why not!), can we please keep to spoiler tags about it?
I'll be keeping mine until the end of the game, may as well keep in the spirit of the game!
On another note, they've really put a huge effort into this game and the fact it will be updated in the future probably makes this a great buy for anyone.
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Post by: DaveC
Yes 2 of that sprue but all sculpts on the one sprue
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Post by: ruralguard
Pure speculation, but Chaos Lord on separate sprue ready for future individual release?
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Post by: Binabik15
This could actually be great. Someone hold me!
I mean, after they've thrown so much crap at metaphorical walls, some good mechanics from BoP, BaC, ST, Overkill etc must've stuck, right? The game ia billed as super expansive and has a campaign mode and fixes missions and random stuff...and they're clearly setting up expansions that'll give us all the weird and forgotten things we've dreamed about. And unicorns!
Seriously, GW, I hope you have a winner here.
Thankfully the Christmas boxes are all duds for me, so this might actually make the cut, even though my "potential purchasses" list is growing at a frightening pace all the time with BB, Necro, new AoS armies, ORKS, terrain, KT...yikes.
PS: CSM still look like someone did horrible experimental surgery on their legs. Should've gone full on Primaris. DG at least kind of hide it with their fat bellies...sigh.
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Post by: Geifer
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Folks.
I see in the unboxing thst there’s a sealed envelope included, only to be opened once one has completed the game.
I trust we can all be good sports about this, and not issue spoilers about what is contained?
I for one am defo into keeping it as a reward thing. But even if you’re one to just dive on in (any why not!), can we please keep to spoiler tags about it?
I'm torn between playing the campaign as quickly as possible to avoid spoilers or, more likely, just accept that those are going to happen and make the best of it afterwards.
We can all be good little boys and girls and keep our mouths shut, but you know, if it's a big deal you just know you'll get implicit spoilers from secondary material. Like, if all of a sudden there's an upsurge of pictures of naked, oiled up Squats on the Internet, would you not connect the dots?
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Post by: Daedalus81
Five books -
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Post by: ListenToMeWarriors
Interesting that these are slottabase miniatures, was the Gellerpox set like that?
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
 Geifer wrote: Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Folks.
I see in the unboxing thst there’s a sealed envelope included, only to be opened once one has completed the game.
I trust we can all be good sports about this, and not issue spoilers about what is contained?
I for one am defo into keeping it as a reward thing. But even if you’re one to just dive on in (any why not!), can we please keep to spoiler tags about it?
I'm torn between playing the campaign as quickly as possible to avoid spoilers or, more likely, just accept that those are going to happen and make the best of it afterwards.
We can all be good little boys and girls and keep our mouths shut, but you know, if it's a big deal you just know you'll get implicit spoilers from secondary material. Like, if all of a sudden there's an upsurge of pictures of naked, oiled up Squats on the Internet, would you not connect the dots?
Not really sure the interwebs needs an excuse for nudie, greasy stunties!
All I ask is direct spoilers make use of the tags.
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Post by: Asmodai
ruralguard wrote:Pure speculation, but Chaos Lord on separate sprue ready for future individual release?
He's also the only adversary model that doesn't have a duplicate.
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Post by: Cothonian
I must say, the new Guardsmen sculpts looks excellent (even if they are traitor.) Gives a reasonably good idea what revamped guard might look like.
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Post by: Voss
Eh. If it's just more mission, I'd expect customers to be told to sell more copies.
I honestly expect people who get it early to just tell people what it is. I'm not a fan of hiding material from potential buyers.
Definitely getting a Horizon Zero Dawn vibe from this one.
No idea what this could mean. HZD was, other than robot dinos, a fairly generic open world game with a predictable plot.
And robot Dino's are pretty cliche in their own right.
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Post by: bullyboy
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Folks.
I see in the unboxing thst there’s a sealed envelope included, only to be opened once one has completed the game.
I trust we can all be good sports about this, and not issue spoilers about what is contained?
I for one am defo into keeping it as a reward thing. But even if you’re one to just dive on in (any why not!), can we please keep to spoiler tags about it?
Ahh, this must be what my source was referring to as not wanting to be seen. Hmm, it will be spoiled almost immediately.
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Post by: Zachectomy
Voss wrote:
Eh. If it's just more mission, I'd expect customers to be told to sell more copies.
I honestly expect people who get it early to just tell people what it is. I'm not a fan of hiding material from potential buyers.
Definitely getting a Horizon Zero Dawn vibe from this one.
No idea what this could mean. HZD was, other than robot dinos, a fairly generic open world game with a predictable plot.
And robot Dino's are pretty cliche in their own right.
The "caves" where the dinosaurs were manufactured looked just like the interior of the blackstone fortress. And the plot was neither predictable nor cliche. The art direction and model design was also pretty spectacular.
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Post by: Desubot
 Cothonian wrote:I must say, the new Guardsmen sculpts looks excellent (even if they are traitor.) Gives a reasonably good idea what revamped guard might look like.
Im really happy to see new not nurgle cultists as well non nurgle chaos space marines.
also really stoked that the CSM are way better scaled. squat marines look terrible.
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Post by: Galef
 Asmodai wrote:ruralguard wrote:Pure speculation, but Chaos Lord on separate sprue ready for future individual release?
He's also the only adversary model that doesn't have a duplicate.
Is that true? The 2 CSMs don't have dupiclates. Or are there 4 of them in the box? EDIT: NVM, I see what they did. there's 1 CSM per sprue, but both heads. So you get 2 helmeted and 2 unhelmeted heads. I also noticed they only have 2 Beastmen legs and torsos per sprue, but by swapping them, you can get 4 "different" poses. Clever -
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Post by: Not Online!!!
Thank god, i hate the unhelmeted ones.
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Post by: Crimson
Then I have some bad new for you about the Chaos Lord...
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Post by: Not Online!!!
Crimson wrote:Then I have some bad new for you about the Chaos Lord...
Head off, there is only room for one warlord anyways
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Post by: lord_blackfang
In the end, despite liking random 40k universe stuff, I decided the models don't justify the price and I doubt the gameplay will measure up to established dungeon crawlers. Already got burned by the dumpster fires called Rogue Trader and Speed Freeks this season (at least the latter has fully usable 40k units). I will surely pick up some cheap hobbit guys at some point for Necromunda.
Fingers crossed the adversaries get expanded into a full Lost and the Damned model line with codex and all.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Only models I’m not entirely convinced by are the Beastmen.
However, we’ve not exactly had nice, clear pics of them. So there’s hope yet. And even then, they’re not awful, just the least good of an otherwise excellent set.
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Post by: Tyranid Horde
Is there a reason for the coloured plastic GW do lately? Is it purely for people who don't feel like painting the models or is it something else?
Just another thought on the Ur-Ghuls, they're a bit derpy looking, especially with the way the hands are positioned.
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Post by: godardc
Man, I don't want to buy this boxe. I NEED to save money. I can't spend 150 on a boxe, I have so many things to paint. But it is becoming more and more difficult to resist, this release is so perfect !
I guess I could get someone to offer it to me for Xmas ?
And yes, please don't spoil the secret.
(but how are we supposed to open it once we have finished the game if there are millions of different games possible thanks to all the events etc... ?)
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
You can. You want to.
You know you do......
(It may be 8 years since I was a GW Till Monkey, but the impulse remains!)
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Post by: Insane Ivan
 Tyranid Horde wrote:Is there a reason for the coloured plastic GW do lately? Is it purely for people who don't feel like painting the models or is it something else?
Pretty much just so you can get playing right out of the box without having to paint first. Nice for newbies and veterans alike, IMO. Doesn’t mean you’re never going to paint them, but GW seem to have realized that plenty of us end up with large amounts of unpainted minis lying about, and if both sides are grey, it’s definitely harder to see who is who. I found it pretty useful for Warhammer Underworlds, as I’m a slow painter (very little time), but this way I still got to play with family without the minis themselves being a cause for confusion.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
The coloured plastics is for those who just want to boardgame (and aren't familiar with the lore), different colours help you clearly identify one side from the other
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Post by: Chairman Aeon
So Precipice has it's own book and there are space craft in the game... This is starting to sound a lot more like the '90s version of Warhammer Quest than the recent AoS ones.
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Post by: Cinderspirit
For those who wonder, matched play datasheets for 40k are in the datasheets booklet. So the surprise must be something else.
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Post by: streetsamurai
looks better and better. The envloppe thing is midly intriguing, but I expect it to only be the ''fluff ending''. Shame about the coloured plastic though
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
I laughed.
In all seriousness though, I'd love someone to include the RT, 2nd edition and 3rd edition marines in one big line up. Automatically Appended Next Post:  streetsamurai wrote:looks better and better. The envloppe thing is midly intriguing, but I expect it to only be the ''fluff ending''. Shame about the coloured plastic though
Talisman had something like that, you put a random card in an envelope and only when you got to the end did you find out if you had the crown, or unleashed a dragon or whatever.
I wonder if different boxes will have different endings?
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Post by: Insane Ivan
Why? I have a number of the Shadespire and Kill Team minis and the quality of plastic is exactly the same as that of the normal, grey-dyed plastic. Currently mixing some of the Kill Team gren plastic Orks with normal Grey plastic and the difference isn’t noticable (apart from the c9lour, obviously.) Not like the old coloured Space Hulk minis (which I also have), where the plastic does indeed seem somewhat more brittle - but those are already 9 years old by this point.
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Post by: Tastyfish
I wonder whether the sealed packs are different in different sets, Risk Legacy style
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Post by: GoatboyBeta
Its a shame about the explorer sprue layout, as it probably means they will not be released outside of the big box.
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Post by: Lord Perversor
 Insane Ivan wrote:
Why? I have a number of the Shadespire and Kill Team minis and the quality of plastic is exactly the same as that of the normal, grey-dyed plastic. Currently mixing some of the Kill Team gren plastic Orks with normal Grey plastic and the difference isn’t noticable (apart from the c9lour, obviously.) Not like the old coloured Space Hulk minis (which I also have), where the plastic does indeed seem somewhat more brittle - but those are already 9 years old by this point.
I only found a substantial difference in colored Plastic when it comes to Terrain, the last one i get of the brown one was noticeable harder to clip it out from the sprue.
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
GoatboyBeta wrote:Its a shame about the explorer sprue layout, as it probably means they will not be released outside of the big box.
They probably will be; the Marines from Deathwatch Overkill were, after all. They just won't be released as individual characters.
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Post by: Sunny Side Up
streetsamurai wrote:looks better and better. The envloppe thing is midly intriguing, but I expect it to only be the ''fluff ending''. Shame about the coloured plastic though
GW doesn't sell non-coloured plastic (and clear HIPS sprues would be quite a pain to assemble, I'd assume). Automatically Appended Next Post:  Lord Perversor wrote:
I only found a substantial difference in colored Plastic when it comes to Terrain, the last one i get of the brown one was noticeable harder to clip it out from the sprue.
That's because they use less softener in that mixture, I'd assume, irrespective of what colour the dye is.
All GW miniatures are not only coloured (including "standard grey"), they are all also artificially softened, or the plastic would be much more rigid, similar to the plastic casing on a TV or toaster or something like that.
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Post by: Yodhrin
I mean, I'm sure it's nice being Technically Correct and all, but you all know fine well what people mean when they say the "coloured plastic" is different and that pulling the "ACKSHOOALEEEEEEEEEEEEEE it's all coloured nyeeeh" routine doesn't address the point.
But just so we're all meeting the correct semantic standard: It has often been noted that the particular mix of colourants and other additives used for the plastics produced for boxed sets sometimes creates an end result that has noticeably different properties relative to the standard mix of colourants and additives used in standard product.
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Post by: Messiah
I am hoping for a legacy game. Well, a legacyish game at least.
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Post by: BoomWolf
Don't think its a legacy game, given the lack of sealed compartments.
And a legacy game with minis would be...problematic in general.
After all, you can't advertise the hidden minis or you spoil it, and its a hard sell when you don't tell the people what minis it DOES contain. (and if all minis are naturally available from the get-go it means 0 new enemies over time, making it a bit stale.)
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
They could hide a card inside the packaging.
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
The secret envelope is a little bit legacy-like, I suppose. But only a little.
There's no reason you couldn't do a legacy-style miniatures game; it would have to be the miniatures stats that change over time rather than the miniatures themselves though (unless you're provided with additional weapons or the like to add on as you go through the game).
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Post by: Irbis
streetsamurai wrote:looks better and better. The envloppe thing is midly intriguing, but I expect it to only be the ''fluff ending''.
Let me guess, rocks fall, everyone dies, last survivor pressed self destruct button?
 AndrewGPaul wrote:GoatboyBeta wrote:Its a shame about the explorer sprue layout, as it probably means they will not be released outside of the big box.
They probably will be; the Marines from Deathwatch Overkill were, after all. They just won't be released as individual characters.
The GSC part of the set was not, though...
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
So? I was responding to a comment about the heroes.
These heroes seem more like a cohesive group than the ones from Silver Tower - they're all the Rogue Trader's crew. It makes more sense for them to be released as one set later on than it would have done for the Silver Tower heroes. That's why I think they'll eventually come out as a single box, if they are released outwith the Blackstone Fortress box.
The adversaries are probably harbingers of new units, like the Tzeentch units from Silver Tower and the Genestealer Cultists in Deathwatch Overkill were; I'm sure we'll see separate box sets of Chaos renegades, beastmen and Chaos Space Marines at some point soonish.
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Post by: Voss
However, we spent a long time waiting for Cultists and updated Chaos Marines the last time they popped up in a boxed set...
and they never really surfaced.
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Post by: Tastyfish
AndrewGPaul wrote:So? I was responding to a comment about the heroes.
These heroes seem more like a cohesive group than the ones from Silver Tower - they're all the Rogue Trader's crew. It makes more sense for them to be released as one set later on than it would have done for the Silver Tower heroes. That's why I think they'll eventually come out as a single box, if they are released outwith the Blackstone Fortress box.
The adversaries are probably harbingers of new units, like the Tzeentch units from Silver Tower and the Genestealer Cultists in Deathwatch Overkill were; I'm sure we'll see separate box sets of Chaos renegades, beastmen and Chaos Space Marines at some point soonish.
They're actually not, everyone has their own ship - they're allies he's recruited to help breach the Blackstone, though they were already attempting it. He's not brought any of them with him.
As for miniature legacy games, old style Gorkamorka and Necromunda have to come close? Supposed to convert and change the mob as they grow and evolve.
When I say Risk Legacy style - in addition to the Legacy components of new cards, stickers etc, there was also secret set of cards that say "DO NOT OPEN UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES" - the contents of these were not the same in all sets.
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Post by: Fango
The little guys are Ratlings (40K halflings) right? I mean, if they were Squats, they'd have beards, boots and sunglasses, right? I am super stoked on this right now...I am REALLY hoping for stats/behavior charts for MORE baddies at launch to keep things interesting!
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
 Fango wrote:The little guys are Ratlings ( 40K halflings) right? I mean, if they were Squats, they'd have beards, boots and sunglasses, right? I am super stoked on this right now...I am REALLY hoping for stats/behavior charts for MORE baddies at launch to keep things interesting!
The ratlings could preview a new kit option as well- classic rratling snipers, and ratlings with grappel hooks and knives, like pint sized primaris reavers. Could be 2 builds in a multipart box.
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Post by: mortar_crew
 MajorWesJanson wrote: Fango wrote:The little guys are Ratlings ( 40K halflings) right? I mean, if they were Squats, they'd have beards, boots and sunglasses, right? I am super stoked on this right now...I am REALLY hoping for stats/behavior charts for MORE baddies at launch to keep things interesting!
The ratlings could preview a new kit option as well- classic rratling snipers, and ratlings with grappel hooks and knives, like pint sized primaris reavers. Could be 2 builds in a multipart box.
Ratling snipers and ratling... scouts(?)
I Will definitely be interested in such a kit.
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Post by: Barzam
Did we ever get full confirmation of exactly what that robot is? Is it supposed to be an actual AI equipped robot, or is it supposed to be a servitor?
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Post by: Daedalus81
Voss wrote:However, we spent a long time waiting for Cultists and updated Chaos Marines the last time they popped up in a boxed set...
and they never really surfaced.
That was "old" GW.
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Post by: Carnikang
Irbis wrote: streetsamurai wrote:looks better and better. The envloppe thing is midly intriguing, but I expect it to only be the ''fluff ending''.
Let me guess, rocks fall, everyone dies, last survivor pressed self destruct button?
AndrewGPaul wrote:GoatboyBeta wrote:Its a shame about the explorer sprue layout, as it probably means they will not be released outside of the big box.
They probably will be; the Marines from Deathwatch Overkill were, after all. They just won't be released as individual characters.
The GSC part of the set was not, though...
The HQs were (and are still) on the same sprue when released, while the Neophytes and Acolytes got multiparts.
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Post by: bullyboy
The hidden vault could be a hint of something to come...a new alien race (that feature the spindle drones), a return of a Primarch, something related to Abbadon or possibly another figure (unlikely though)
Here's my wild guess......Rogal Dorn is returning. Why else would they make a specific Imperial Fists Battleforce for Xmas?
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Post by: Carlovonsexron
I would love for Dorn to be the next primarch.
On a side note, I'm in LOVE with this release.
I'm hoping see more old one tech, and if they are really taking chances let's see some tarelliand and pisceans!
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Post by: Zethnar
I wanted to see what the page from the manual GW posted to their community site had to say about the other books in the set but then ended up transcribing the whole page.
It's pretty long so I dumped the text here.
anything contained in pointy brackets was either unreadable or my best guess as to what the word (or words) were.
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Post by: BoomWolf
bullyboy wrote:The hidden vault could be a hint of something to come...a new alien race (that feature the spindle drones), a return of a Primarch, something related to Abbadon or possibly another figure (unlikely though)
Here's my wild guess......Rogal Dorn is returning. Why else would they make a specific Imperial Fists Battleforce for Xmas?
While making sense on some level-it would be an outright atrocity if the second loyalist would be yet another "codex" marine, and not one of the BA/ DA/ SW.
A new xeno race is...possible yet unlikely. even if the drones may bring it to suspicion-they said they will talk about them later during the week, I doubt such a massive announcement would come in such an offhand fashion.
Honestly, its likely pointing towards something new for chaos. I suspect it might connect to the upcoming Slannesh release...
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Post by: Rayvon
I have been giving 40k a miss since the primaris popped up and the fact that they are nowhere near this release is the deciding factor for me to press ahead and make the purchase.
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Post by: Yodhrin
 Rayvon wrote:I have been giving 40k a miss since the primaris popped up and the fact that they are nowhere near this release is the deciding factor for me to press ahead and make the purchase.
Don't get too happy, there are a lot of little remarks as part of the marketing that makes me think they're going to tie this heavily into the whole " 40K is an ongoing plot now" thing - they do not intend to let anyone avoid it - so Primaris and all that jazz is only a matter of time.
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Post by: Necronmaniac05
I'm sure they will eventually release a primaris model for use in Blackstone Fortress. The great thing about these boxed games is you can just not use it, same with the commanders expansion for kill team. If you don't want to use it then don't. GW are just doing the sensible thing and giving people choice.
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Post by: Not Online!!!
 BoomWolf wrote: bullyboy wrote:The hidden vault could be a hint of something to come...a new alien race (that feature the spindle drones), a return of a Primarch, something related to Abbadon or possibly another figure (unlikely though)
Here's my wild guess......Rogal Dorn is returning. Why else would they make a specific Imperial Fists Battleforce for Xmas?
While making sense on some level-it would be an outright atrocity if the second loyalist would be yet another "codex" marine, and not one of the BA/ DA/ SW.
A new xeno race is...possible yet unlikely. even if the drones may bring it to suspicion-they said they will talk about them later during the week, I doubt such a massive announcement would come in such an offhand fashion.
Honestly, its likely pointing towards something new for chaos. I suspect it might connect to the upcoming Slannesh release...
There is literally nothing slaaneshy in there, except the lord maybee a closet slaneeshy worshipper.
What is interesting is that they explicitly added in the names and models closely associated with the lost and the damned (beastmens are mutants) and it's successor R&H via the Rogue psyker and the terminus Traitor guardsmen which were also an entry in the old campaign for the lost and the damned, aswell as associated with the bloody handed reaver arch demagogue option for R&H.
I feel like most Chaos players , or even those on the fence that did not want to start another SM army( but with spikez), would get fairly interested in them.
>Granted, Lost and the damned aswell as R&H were and are a faction as colorfull and divided as the regular CSM dudes, so maybee we get them alongside? Regardless this Traitor guardsmen are the closest thing we got to cultists in a sensible manner since a long time. (frankly the snapfit cultists are just terrible!)
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Necronmaniac05 wrote:I'm sure they will eventually release a primaris model for use in Blackstone Fortress. The great thing about these boxed games is you can just not use it, same with the commanders expansion for kill team. If you don't want to use it then don't. GW are just doing the sensible thing and giving people choice.
What will probably happen first though is some expansion cards for various single-frame clampack characters.
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
I'd like to see a really out-there Marine - one who's been in the Rogue Trader's retinue for decades (perhaps centuries, and he's been passed down from parent to child), so he's drifted away from the usual look of his Chapter.
Perhaps a Blackshield, or something like one of these guys:
(I painted my anniversary Imperial Space Marine like the guy in green).
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Necronmaniac05 wrote:I'm sure they will eventually release a primaris model for use in Blackstone Fortress. The great thing about these boxed games is you can just not use it, same with the commanders expansion for kill team. If you don't want to use it then don't. GW are just doing the sensible thing and giving people choice.
Yes, and kind of no.
See, Quest is a properly co-operative game. In theory, those you're off dungeoneering with will pick their own favourite character. You then arrange games when everyone can make it.
My fear is that any kind of protagonist Marine just won't work. They'll have better guns, better armour, better resilience and better face breaking stats. This is precisely why FFG split Marines off into their own RPG - they just unbalance games when involved with 'mere mortals'. We had one in our Rogue Trader game. Whilst it worked for the most part, when it came to combat we sat down, had a nice cup of tea and let the Astartes handle it.
And I hate to say it - but such oddities in co-operative games tend to bring out the worst in players.
For a Dungeoneering game to work well, it needs to have distinct flaws to each character. This forces teamwork. The healer is vital, but squishy. The Fighter basically does just one thing. Those falling in between need their own drawbacks. Otherwise, people will all just take a Marine each, and the whole point of the game falls apart, as they merrily rampage through everything. Renegade Guardsmen torn apart in second. Beastmen chinned with aplomb. Traitor Marines ganged up on by 5 Loyalists, all with shiny better gear.
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Post by: Yodhrin
Necronmaniac05 wrote:I'm sure they will eventually release a primaris model for use in Blackstone Fortress. The great thing about these boxed games is you can just not use it, same with the commanders expansion for kill team. If you don't want to use it then don't. GW are just doing the sensible thing and giving people choice.
"Primaris" in this case is being used as shorthand for "all the story stuff they've produced since they moved on the setting and brought back Rowboat". I can choose not to use the Primaris model, I can't choose to play Blackstone Fortress and ignore the broader 40K ongoing narrative if Blackstone Fortress is explicitly tied into that ongoing narrative as its expansions are released.
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Post by: Starfarer
I think the secret envelope will reveal Abaddon. Black Legion are in the set, and there were rumors that Abaddon was in the set as well. Perhaps a bit of teasing, as if the new model for him is previewed on a card in that envelope you could argue he's technically in the box...
Also there's the direct link between Abaddon and Blackstone Fortresses in the current narrative, and GW have lately been tying every one of these new box set releases together in some way.
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Post by: fresus
I hope future extensions will be pretty small.
The core box is pretty big, costs quite a lot (even if it's a good deal) and will take a few month to paint up (at least for me). I like most of the models in it, so I'll buy it anyway. But if the next releases are also pretty big, I'm not sure I'll keep up with the new stuff (this is assuming my friends and I enjoy the game obviously).
Small extensions with like 4-5 small infantry, 2 more elite ones, and a boss would be the perfect size for me. And a clampack character once in a while to play as one of the good guys, would also be welcome.
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Post by: Ancient Otter
Why did GW kill the original Warhammer Quest out of curiosity?
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Post by: lord_blackfang
The envelope just says "Expansion heroes will be £25 each"
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Post by: zedmeister
From my guess, it was slowly phased out probably due to low sales figures and an internal change. It slowly disappeared around 1997 to 1999 which is around the time where GW started to reduce focus on producing these boxed games and shunt existing ones to Fanatic. WHQ did survive during the early days of Fanatic with Deathblow Magazine and the Pits and Traps expansion. There was a Skaven and Chaos Dwarf expansion rumoured. The Skaven one ended up in White Dwarf. The Chaos Dwarf one ended up as a single board section bundle in White Dwarf 200 and 2 limited release Chaos Dwarf axemen.
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Post by: Zethnar
You mean the original 1994 Warhammer Quest? They didn't kill it. Time passed and they slowly stopped supporting it as it no longer made as many sales. While it was active they released a decent amount of content for it, treasure packs, new characters, new adventures via White Dwarf and I think there was even a couple of campaign expansions.
If you mean the new Silver Tower / Hammerhal stuff then I don't know if its too early to say if they've killed it or not. There's definitely potential for them to release further boxed games in the series (you could even argue that Blackstone Fortress is a continuation of the series).
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