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No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/15 18:13:41


Post by: SemperMortis


the_scotsman wrote:


The original post I responded to about this was talking about scout sentinels, presumably because scout sentinels have a reason to exist. Armored Sentinels are (even at equal points) totally outclassed by Scout Sentinels simply because Scouts can do the 9" move pregame to push back the deep strike bubble.

Incorrect, the original comment was this
SemperMortis wrote:
 Grimskul wrote:
Dread WAAAGH! was one of my hopes for Kanz to be semi-viable. Whelp, guess I was wrong. I would be ecstatic for GW to FAQ it to work for them, but until then, RAW, it doesn't. Pay F to pay respectz, boyz.


Hell even if it did work for them they would still suck. The fact is that a fething Imperial Guard Sentinel is a better Walker than the KillaKan. Cheaper, more durable, better weapons and faster. GW just needs to unfeth themselves.
So nowhere did I say "Scout" but again, miscommunication that is fine. So scout sentinels are better than Armored sentinels because they get 9' free movement before the game starts and have a worse save/T/W. That is your opinion, and since I don't play IG i'll just leave it at that. My point though, in fact, the original point, was that Killakanz are worse than Armored sentinels. You seem hellbent on denying that.

the_scotsman wrote:
That's what they do. That's the entirety of what they do. If you think a 35-point model that puts out 3 S6 AP- shots is in any way usable on its own merits, I'm not sure what to say to you. Scout sentinels have a point in competitive lists because they are a cheap fast attack slot model that grants a minor advantage against armies that use top of turn 1 deep strike alpha strikes.
And going back to the main point, Killakanz SUCK because every ARMORED sentinels are better in every which way except CC. So nothing here disputes that point. Killakanz are worse than IG Armored Sentinels.

the_scotsman wrote:
The reason armored sentinels are pointless is honestly the same reason that killa kanz are pointless: Their job is done infinitely better by a HUGE number of alternative units within the Guard codex. The only reason Scouts are seen at all is that unlike killa kanz, those competitors are not in the same slot as them. "long range heavy weapon toting vehicles that can't move and must be screened to keep working" is something Guard has in droves, and "distraction carnifex that shoots a bit while it advances up the field" is something that Orks have in abundance.
K. ?

the_scotsman wrote:
Comparing the two units in a vacuum is asinine, because the usefulness of both is heavily affected by the codex they're in, but I absolutely disagree with you that an armored sentinel in a vacuum is in any way better than a killa kan. you have a unit that provides absolutely no pressure, no reason at all for any opponent to give a gak about it, that can be effortlessly invalidated by any unit down to and including gretchins, brimstones, etc because it can't fall back and shoot, and packs almost no weaponry capable of making its points back. 1 BS4 lascannon is not worth 50 points. 1 bs4 multilaser at 35 is laughable. If a killa kan was just a rokkit, it'd be worthless as well, but the very fact that you do lose yours points to the one thing that it is effective at doing, and that's absorbing firepower. Those 4 BS3+ lascannon shots it takes to kill that killa kan didn't go into a more valuable vehicle. Kanz are elevated from terrible to mediocre for the same reason Guard go from decent to drop-dead amazing: They die relatively slowly for their cost. 3+ T5 is a very efficient defensive statline if you can get your opponent to target it, which Armored Sentinels cant do, but kanz can.
And now we have an actual point to debate. Scotsman says Armored sentinels are not better than Kanz. Your point though is completely invalidated by your own admission for why Kanz are better. It takes 3 Lascannons to kill a Kan and therefore kanz serve a purpose as a distraction carnifex. Well that Distraction Carnifex costs 10pts more that the Armored Sentinel with a S6 gun, and 5pts less if it has a Lascannon instead. And 1 lascannon isn't worth 50pts? why not? A devestator squad gets a Lascannon for 33pts I believe and is significantly less durable than the Armored Sentinel. And it will never earn its points back? The simple Scatter laser in 5 game turns has 15 shots and 7-8 hits, vs just ork boyz that is 5 - 6 wounds and 4-5 dead ork boyz. 5 dead ork boyz = 35pts so yeah, it can make its points back without even having to roll above average, and as you said, if someone kills it, that means its distracting from better units just like that silly Kan is.

Again, Armored Sentinels are tougher, faster, more durable and have better dakka


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:
In terms of mek guns good way to get them cheaper(in money) is use trukk kit in conjugation. With mek gun kit, trukk kit and some spare bits you can easily build one of each mek gun(albeit bubblechukka is of limited value). Makes it bit more easy to wallet if you aren't opposed to fielding 2-3 different types.
I just did this, I got 4 Mek Gunz out of a Trukk and a single Mek Gun purchase, which brings the net cost of each Mek gun from $46 each to $21 a piece.

Also, if you are like me, and keep every extra bit you have and pickup spare bitz from people who don't want them you will have a couple extra random big weapons laying about, I used a couple kannonz and Zzap gunz from my battlewagonz and modified them a bit to fit into my Trukk bashed gun carriages.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Emicrania wrote:
Why you guys prefer double Choppa nobz over BC ?
My mathematics tells me that BC nobz are better vs everything.
5-6 of them in a G-NAUT are gonna have to do some hard cleaning T3, by than all the chaffs should be already gone. No?


because they are cheap, and with orkz more bodies is better than less bodies. Also a BC nob costs 19pts each, so for 3 of them you can take 4 Nobz with double choppas and each choppa nob has 2 more attacks than the BC nob so 9 attacks at S7 -1AP 2damage vs 20 S5 attacks.

So against chaff units and even standard Space Marines, Double choppa wins. (9 BC attacks = 6 hits, 5 wounds and 2-3 dead Marines, 20 DC attacks = 14 hits and about 10 wounds for 5 dead Marines)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/15 18:28:27


Post by: Dr.Duck


Kinda stunned that the wagon is more expensive than a Russ. Am I right? in PL and points I think.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/15 20:48:58


Post by: tneva82


PiñaColada wrote:
The deffkannon (the stock option on a kustom stompa) is 0 points in FW Index Xenos and the mega-gatler is a new 'un as far as I know.

I'm just sad that Orks don't have a baneblade type chassis in the codex, the Kill Tank from FW sort of fits the bill but it needs an updated points cost IMO


That deffkannon 0 doesn't help here though as it's 0 only because nobody that can have it have any options where it matters. Obviously weapon is worth more than 0 but the cost is built into the vehicle itself...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SemperMortis wrote:

because they are cheap, and with orkz more bodies is better than less bodies. Also a BC nob costs 19pts each, so for 3 of them you can take 4 Nobz with double choppas and each choppa nob has 2 more attacks than the BC nob so 9 attacks at S7 -1AP 2damage vs 20 S5 attacks.


Actually double choppa nob has only 1 attack more. BC has 3 S7 -1 D2 attacks AND 1 S5 attack from his choppa. You take 2 weapons. Big choppa+choppa is legal combo.

So we are looking at 9 S7 -1 D2 and 3 S5 attacks vs 20 S5 attacks.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/15 21:01:20


Post by: PiñaColada


Umm, yeah that's my point. I obviously don't think GW thinks that weapon should be free, problem is that there's no way of telling how much they think it should be.

I merely said that it does exist in FW Xenos but the immediate follow up question would be how much it costs there if I didn't also write down that info.

Point is, you might be able to play the Kart & Wagon with some kustom points in a lax matched play game between friends, the Battle fortress requires some real guesswork (and will end up at a too high point cost anyway most likely)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/16 00:36:33


Post by: JNAProductions


How the hell do you get 5 dead Marines from 10 wounds? Did Choppas hit AP-1 while I was gone?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/16 00:51:02


Post by: BaconCatBug


 JNAProductions wrote:
How the hell do you get 5 dead Marines from 10 wounds? Did Choppas hit AP-1 while I was gone?
Big Choppa's are AP-1. /ShakesFist back in my Day they were AP-2 against Terminators


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/16 00:52:05


Post by: JNAProductions


 BaconCatBug wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
How the hell do you get 5 dead Marines from 10 wounds? Did Choppas hit AP-1 while I was gone?
Big Choppa's are AP-1. /ShakesFist back in my Day they were AP-2 against Terminators


He got 10 wounds from Choppas-not big ones-and said that'd lead to 5 dead Marines.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/16 08:33:32


Post by: tneva82


Yep. More accurate numbers would be(he had some other errors as well):

9BC attacks=2 dead marines(he also calculated 5 wounds from 6 hits...They are S7 aka wound on 3+). 3 choppa attacks=0.44 more so 2.44 for 3 BC nobz.

Then 4 double choppa nobz. 20 attacks 2.96 dead marines.

So yeah point to point against marines double choppas win. You are paying for ability to give better dent vs 2+ save stuff and anything with W2. If you don't expect to be facing 2 wound stuff then go with double choppa. But of course primaris marines are around there with their 2 wounds and so on. Also makes better dent against vehicles. Regular nobz will struggle to take down even rhino requiring 32 nobz. 12 big choppa nobz meanwhile takes that one down.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/16 11:27:43


Post by: lord_blackfang


PiñaColada wrote:
Have you guys seen the Looted wagon rules?

BoLS has an article up about it.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/12/40k-breaking-ork-looted-wagon-rules-arrive.html

Shame something like the battle fortress didn't make it into the 'dex I feel..


I knew it would be Open Play only and therefore useless, but readign CA now I am actually incensed that they even published this lazy garbage.

They're literally just Rhino (which can swap in enough small arms to be a Chimera), Russ and Baneblade with imperial guns swapped out for Ork guns one one random D3 table. They even go as far as typing out the entirety of the Dakka! Dakka! Dakka! rule in full on each of the 3 datasheets just to fill up white space.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/16 11:32:30


Post by: Glane


 Dr.Duck wrote:
Kinda stunned that the wagon is more expensive than a Russ. Am I right? in PL and points I think.


Basic Russ is 152, Gunwagon with Killkannon is 155.

They're surprisingly equal though on paper. Battlecannon is D6 Str 8 Ap-2 Dmg D3, whilst the Killkannon is D6 Str 8 Ap-2 Dmg 2. That's virtually identical. The huge difference is in the range; 24" vs 72". The Russ gets an advantage there.

But the Wagon has 4 more wounds and 2" more movement. The Russ has BS4+ to the Wagon's 5+, but the Russ degrades to 5+ after taking 6 wounds, whereas the Wagon's BS never degrades. The Wagon gets a 12-man transport capacity to the Russ's none. The Wagon gets 6 attacks at WS5+ whilst the Russ gets 3 at WS6+, so the Wagon is better at CC, not that you'd ever want the thing in CC in the first place, which is something of a problem. Somewhat bizarrely, when the Wagon dies it explodes on a 4+, which together with the reduced range, transport capacity and better CC ability makes me think the developers intended the Wagon to be a close-range hybrid unit that gets up next to the enemy and delivers a cargo before exploding and taking out a few enemy troops.

Trouble is of course, that it doesn't really work. Leman Russes work because you can take 3 in a slot and gain orders and much better stratagems than anything we have for Gunwagons. 40K punishes hybrid units badly thanks to inflated points costs, so we end up with a unit that does everything poorly. If you want something that gets up close, dumps off some units and charges in, you'd just take a Bonebreaker. Missing out on a few shots isn't going to bother you too much.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/16 11:39:37


Post by: Jidmah


 lord_blackfang wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Have you guys seen the Looted wagon rules?

BoLS has an article up about it.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/12/40k-breaking-ork-looted-wagon-rules-arrive.html

Shame something like the battle fortress didn't make it into the 'dex I feel..


I knew it would be Open Play only and therefore useless, but readign CA now I am actually incensed that they even published this lazy garbage.

They're literally just Rhino (which can swap in enough small arms to be a Chimera), Russ and Baneblade with imperial guns swapped out for Ork guns one one random D3 table. They even go as far as typing out the entirety of the Dakka! Dakka! Dakka! rule in full on each of the 3 datasheets just to fill up white space.


Looted wagons have not been more than that since third edition. And before that it was "take imperial vehicle, replace WS with 5+", which wouldn't have been better outside of broken edge cases.

I don't know what you expected.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/16 12:27:10


Post by: tneva82


 lord_blackfang wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Have you guys seen the Looted wagon rules?

BoLS has an article up about it.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/12/40k-breaking-ork-looted-wagon-rules-arrive.html

Shame something like the battle fortress didn't make it into the 'dex I feel..


I knew it would be Open Play only and therefore useless, but readign CA now I am actually incensed that they even published this lazy garbage.

They're literally just Rhino (which can swap in enough small arms to be a Chimera), Russ and Baneblade with imperial guns swapped out for Ork guns one one random D3 table. They even go as far as typing out the entirety of the Dakka! Dakka! Dakka! rule in full on each of the 3 datasheets just to fill up white space.


Ah yes useless indeed. So useless I already had game with them. Yep. Real useless.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/17 07:35:24


Post by: hollow one


PSA: no major events the past two weekends, but occasionally an Ork list is winning small events or coming top 3. Steve Pampreen took the same list to great success.

The trend is clear. 90 boyz and 22-25 lootas + grots. That feels pretty locked in as a solid choice right now, but LVO and Cancon will lock that in through Jan.

If you were on the fence re: Loota star, it's getting results and is worth considering seriously.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/17 08:20:58


Post by: tneva82


 hollow one wrote:
PSA: no major events the past two weekends, but occasionally an Ork list is winning small events or coming top 3. Steve Pampreen took the same list to great success.

The trend is clear. 90 boyz and 22-25 lootas + grots. That feels pretty locked in as a solid choice right now, but LVO and Cancon will lock that in through Jan.

If you were on the fence re: Loota star, it's getting results and is worth considering seriously.


Not surprising. Loota star was clear winner in the codex.

Have smasha guns been doing any good though or is the issue that they are providing nice targets for AT guns(and $$$) hindering them?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/17 08:25:51


Post by: koooaei


 Blackie wrote:
I hate deathstars and always avoid the massive investment on single units, so no 10 man meganobz for me, even if they're my favorite models and used to bring 15 in 7th edition . Lootas were an exception, but got already tired of playing the list centered around them, and I've already shelved them.

I usualy bring 5-6 stock meganobz deployed by tellyporta. Evil sunz or goffs, but I also tried them in a deathskulls brigade and the re-rolls make them powerful as the goffs ones. 6+++ and obj secured tipycally don't matter but still free bonuses that could be helpful sometimes. When goffs they usually get warpath and the banner nob aura.

I use them as a back up for my 3x vehicles with deff rollas full of boyz and joined by the biker boss. For the same amount of points invested in 6 meganobz you could field 12 nobz in a trukk with 2 ammo runts, this option competed with meganobz in many of my games but I love both solutions and I alternate them.

If you want a single unbuffed unit that does a lot of stuff on its own go for the 10 meganobz but find a way to clear screeners. Sometimes 40 shots (46-47 actually, since DDD) with the kustom shootas can be enough, most of the times they don't.


The great part is that they are not a huge investment now.

350 pt gets you. What? Like 1.5 boy squads.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/17 08:33:31


Post by: Emicrania


I have a question about the lootas bomb. I am playing against it as I am painting my Ork army, so my and my friend found ourselves in a bit of a misunderstanding.
I dug out with my trygon+26 devourer t-gant and used the shoot again stratagem. That's 156 S4 4+ reroll one to hit shots. That gak hurts. If you are gonna play that you really need to make it impossible to shoot to bits for at least 3 turns
Anyway the problem arose when I declared to shoot the grots AND the lootas at the same time. Let's say I decided to shoot the grots first and I wipe them out . Than I proceed to shoot the lootas and he wanna use the grot shield stratagem; now there are no grots left, but i shoot both unit at the same time. He claimed that would result in the loss of the shielded Wounds on grots, I thought it was possible but not sure, so I resolved into shooting the lootas first instead and let him use the stratagem as he wanted.
Can anybody clear what it is the correct way to play grot Shields in a similar situation?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/17 08:40:41


Post by: Mellon


 Emicrania wrote:
I have a question about the lootas bomb. I am playing against it as I am painting my Ork army, so my and my friend found ourselves in a bit of a misunderstanding.
I dug out with my trygon+26 devourer t-gant and used the shoot again stratagem. That's 156 S4 4+ reroll one to hit shots. That gak hurts. If you are gonna play that you really need to make it impossible to shoot to bits for at least 3 turns
Anyway the problem arose when I declared to shoot the grots AND the lootas at the same time. Let's say I decided to shoot the grots first and I wipe them out . Than I proceed to shoot the lootas and he wanna use the grot shield stratagem; now there are no grots left, but i shoot both unit at the same time. He claimed that would result in the loss of the shielded Wounds on grots, I thought it was possible but not sure, so I resolved into shooting the lootas first instead and let him use the stratagem as he wanted.
Can anybody clear what it is the correct way to play grot Shields in a similar situation?


The rules for splitting shots says "declare how you will split the shooting unit’s shots before any dice are rolled, and resolve all the shots against one target before moving on to the next." p179. So if you shoot the grots first, they will be gone when it's time to resolve the shooting against the lootas. So no grot shields available.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/17 08:42:02


Post by: Gitdakka


 Emicrania wrote:
I have a question about the lootas bomb. I am playing against it as I am painting my Ork army, so my and my friend found ourselves in a bit of a misunderstanding.
I dug out with my trygon+26 devourer t-gant and used the shoot again stratagem. That's 156 S4 4+ reroll one to hit shots. That gak hurts. If you are gonna play that you really need to make it impossible to shoot to bits for at least 3 turns
Anyway the problem arose when I declared to shoot the grots AND the lootas at the same time. Let's say I decided to shoot the grots first and I wipe them out . Than I proceed to shoot the lootas and he wanna use the grot shield stratagem; now there are no grots left, but i shoot both unit at the same time. He claimed that would result in the loss of the shielded Wounds on grots, I thought it was possible but not sure, so I resolved into shooting the lootas first instead and let him use the stratagem as he wanted.
Can anybody clear what it is the correct way to play grot Shields in a similar situation?


If you split fire then you (the shooter) choose the order in wich they are resolved. You resolve one target entirely before moving on to next. This would mean that if you resolve the grots first and then move on to the lootas, they might not have any grots left to use the strategem on.

Edit: Damn mellon beat me to it!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/17 08:49:21


Post by: tneva82


 Emicrania wrote:
I have a question about the lootas bomb. I am playing against it as I am painting my Ork army, so my and my friend found ourselves in a bit of a misunderstanding.
I dug out with my trygon+26 devourer t-gant and used the shoot again stratagem. That's 156 S4 4+ reroll one to hit shots. That gak hurts. If you are gonna play that you really need to make it impossible to shoot to bits for at least 3 turns
Anyway the problem arose when I declared to shoot the grots AND the lootas at the same time. Let's say I decided to shoot the grots first and I wipe them out . Than I proceed to shoot the lootas and he wanna use the grot shield stratagem; now there are no grots left, but i shoot both unit at the same time. He claimed that would result in the loss of the shielded Wounds on grots, I thought it was possible but not sure, so I resolved into shooting the lootas first instead and let him use the stratagem as he wanted.
Can anybody clear what it is the correct way to play grot Shields in a similar situation?


As already noted shots are split when declared and you decide order. If you shoot grots first those count. If there's no grots left too bad. Similarly if there's just 5 grots then 5 lootas is max saved.

One way to deal with that star though in your case might be actually unneeded. 156 shots so you average 91 shots. If you shoot at lootas that's 45.5 wounds. If he has 30 grots around that's pretty everybody dead ANYWAY. He gets 7.5 past grots anyway, remaining 38 kills say the 30 grots and then 8 more so 15 wounds to the lootas anyway). Though albeit firing half the shots into grots would be faster anyway. That results in 30 dead grots and remaining averages 22 saves to lootas. You might want to downgrade grot shooting bit to ensure some grots are left just to tempt him to waste CP though.

Other is if you get first turn and can get to shoot is start shooting at 10 strong unit(if he has the 15+10). He likely will let you shoot as if he triggers then you can switch to 15 and kill that. And if you still manage to lose 1 ork then all opponent needs to do is kill 6 from now grot-screenlessness 15 squad and no mobbing up.



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/17 08:55:21


Post by: An Actual Englishman


Worth noting that you need to declare how many ranged weapons you are throwing into grots and how many into Lootas in advance.

You can't keep rolling dice until grots are all dead then kill Lootas. You need to say something like: "56 shots into Grots, 100 into Lootas." Then roll out the results in the order of your choosing (presumably starting with grots).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/17 09:09:15


Post by: tneva82


Though with shoot again strategem he can do 50 to grots, 28 to lootas and then after those are resolved(phew) decide once more how to split his attacks(aaaand here we go again...)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/17 09:51:10


Post by: Emicrania


Thanks for clearing that out, protect your Lootas!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/17 09:53:06


Post by: Blackie


 koooaei wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
I hate deathstars and always avoid the massive investment on single units, so no 10 man meganobz for me, even if they're my favorite models and used to bring 15 in 7th edition . Lootas were an exception, but got already tired of playing the list centered around them, and I've already shelved them.

I usualy bring 5-6 stock meganobz deployed by tellyporta. Evil sunz or goffs, but I also tried them in a deathskulls brigade and the re-rolls make them powerful as the goffs ones. 6+++ and obj secured tipycally don't matter but still free bonuses that could be helpful sometimes. When goffs they usually get warpath and the banner nob aura.

I use them as a back up for my 3x vehicles with deff rollas full of boyz and joined by the biker boss. For the same amount of points invested in 6 meganobz you could field 12 nobz in a trukk with 2 ammo runts, this option competed with meganobz in many of my games but I love both solutions and I alternate them.

If you want a single unbuffed unit that does a lot of stuff on its own go for the 10 meganobz but find a way to clear screeners. Sometimes 40 shots (46-47 actually, since DDD) with the kustom shootas can be enough, most of the times they don't.


The great part is that they are not a huge investment now.

350 pt gets you. What? Like 1.5 boy squads.


Yeah I don't play blobs of 30 boyz tipycally, just 18-20 in BWs or 10-11 in a trukk or Bonebreaka. For how I like to play 350 points and 2CP pre-game on a single unit is a massive investment. I also avoid Ghaz for the same reason, even if I mostly play goffs. 30 boyz are quite expensive IMHO

But that's entirely subjective since someone could argue that transport+boyz+character are one single drop and even more expensive that 10 meganobz. I see them as 3 different units instead


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/17 10:57:28


Post by: addnid


 Emicrania wrote:
Thanks for clearing that out, protect your Lootas!


In a similar fashion, if you split shots against venomthropes and (an)other target(s), you start by shooting the venomthropes so that your other shots on the other(s) target(s) don't get the minus one to hit. The rules are clear, but one must not forget the right target order for dakka


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/17 11:03:21


Post by: tneva82


 Emicrania wrote:
Thanks for clearing that out, protect your Lootas!


For that: Don't put 10 grots front of lootas and 10 behind. Why is this bad? Enemy can move something like flyer to back and then shoot with others the unit from back. Hey presto flyer can shoot freely.

10 strong units are also weaker against h2h attacks as you have less freedom on where to remove casualties. If you have 30 grots in one line you can remove from where h2h units aren't. 3 units of 10 and he can blow hole much easier. Ditto for 30 doing circle around the lootas.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/10/17 04:03:27


Post by: Sal4m4nd3r


 Dojo wrote:
I think i wanna try my Meganobz again, so cool and now i can teleport them in and charge. What are people doing with them? small distraction squad or like an anti knight team at like 20PL


I bring 10 bare bones MANz, tellyport them down to battlefield turn 2 or 3. They come down where I NEED something to die. And they kill it dead. Usually bring them as evil sunz for the +1 charge so an 8" charge with full re-roll is pretty good odds (I think in the mid 80s). Usually by turn 2 or 3 there are multiple holes in the enemy lines for you to get a charge on a juicy target, as opposed to DA JUMP where you are mostly hitting chaff or low impact units.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/17 14:47:53


Post by: tneva82


 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
 Dojo wrote:
I think i wanna try my Meganobz again, so cool and now i can teleport them in and charge. What are people doing with them? small distraction squad or like an anti knight team at like 20PL


I bring 10 bare bones MANz, tellyport them down to battlefield turn 2 or 3. They come down where I NEED something to die. And they kill it dead. Usually bring them as evil sunz for the +1 charge so an 8" charge with full re-roll is pretty good odds (I think in the mid 80s). Usually by turn 2 or 3 there are multiple holes in the enemy lines for you to get a charge on a juicy target, as opposed to DA JUMP where you are mostly hitting chaff or low impact units.


78% actually so 1 out of 5 you fail


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/17 15:09:44


Post by: Sal4m4nd3r


tneva82 wrote:
 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
 Dojo wrote:
I think i wanna try my Meganobz again, so cool and now i can teleport them in and charge. What are people doing with them? small distraction squad or like an anti knight team at like 20PL


I bring 10 bare bones MANz, tellyport them down to battlefield turn 2 or 3. They come down where I NEED something to die. And they kill it dead. Usually bring them as evil sunz for the +1 charge so an 8" charge with full re-roll is pretty good odds (I think in the mid 80s). Usually by turn 2 or 3 there are multiple holes in the enemy lines for you to get a charge on a juicy target, as opposed to DA JUMP where you are mostly hitting chaff or low impact units.


78% actually so 1 out of 5 you fail


Thanks for that. Yeah so its a damn reliable charge. pretty easy to toss all deepstrikers (deff dreads, MANZ, kommandos, BW) into evil suns battalion, and have your main battalion for fluff/fun/paint scheme. I go with Goff/Evil Suns battalions.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/17 15:44:48


Post by: Sluggaloo


tneva82 wrote:

Actually double choppa nob has only 1 attack more. BC has 3 S7 -1 D2 attacks AND 1 S5 attack from his choppa. You take 2 weapons. Big choppa+choppa is legal combo.

So we are looking at 9 S7 -1 D2 and 3 S5 attacks vs 20 S5 attacks.


Shout out to tneva for having the sharpest kunnin' analysis from our whole mob, you're dead sneaky and really look at things closely

As for the whole conversation regarding tping transports, I just reckon people need to count the tellyporta as a form of transport on it's own. If you've already paid the points for a transport, make use of it's increased mobility from turn one! I advocate saving the tp for units you're not planning on putting inside a transport. I've used that word all too much now. Transport.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/17 15:49:45


Post by: tneva82


 Sluggaloo wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

Actually double choppa nob has only 1 attack more. BC has 3 S7 -1 D2 attacks AND 1 S5 attack from his choppa. You take 2 weapons. Big choppa+choppa is legal combo.

So we are looking at 9 S7 -1 D2 and 3 S5 attacks vs 20 S5 attacks.


Shout out to tneva for having the sharpest kunnin' analysis from our whole mob, you're dead sneaky and really look at things closely

As for the whole conversation regarding tping transports, I just reckon people need to count the tellyporta as a form of transport on it's own. If you've already paid the points for a transport, make use of it's increased mobility from turn one! I advocate saving the tp for units you're not planning on putting inside a transport. I've used that word all too much now. Transport.


Dunno if reading this thread makes me sneaky this thread is where i found out it's even legal.

Biggest reason to tp transport would be to have 2-3 supporting characters along rather than slog it around like warboss and banner, maybe painboy. Obviously means nobz rather than boyz. Does make for tempting target to surround and kill so unlike'y to be tournament winner


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/17 16:07:53


Post by: Sluggaloo


Speaking of 2-3 supporting characters. How would a Supreme Command Detachment work in conjunction with special named characters which are tied to different clans?

Picture this supreme command detachment:

EvilSunz Zhardsnark - Ded fast and killy

BloodAxe Snikrot - Ded Sneaky and backstabby

Goff Zaggstrukk - Dropping out the sky next to Snikrot for two man OrkSpecOps

DeffSkull BigMekSAG - DreadWaagh for the extra souped up gun, deffskullz for the rerolls for days

1) Is this multi - kultur detachment possible?
2) If so, do each of the detachment's characters keep their clan kulturs? (Does the deffskull SAGmek keep rerolls, does Zhardsnark get +1 to charge, movements etc etc)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/17 16:20:42


Post by: Grimskul


 Sluggaloo wrote:
Speaking of 2-3 supporting characters. How would a Supreme Command Detachment work in conjunction with special named characters which are tied to different clans?

Picture this supreme command detachment:

EvilSunz Zhardsnark - Ded fast and killy

BloodAxe Snikrot - Ded Sneaky and backstabby

Goff Zaggstrukk - Dropping out the sky next to Snikrot for two man OrkSpecOps

DeffSkull BigMekSAG - DreadWaagh for the extra souped up gun, deffskullz for the rerolls for days

1) Is this multi - kultur detachment possible?
2) If so, do each of the detachment's characters keep their clan kulturs? (Does the deffskull SAGmek keep rerolls, does Zhardsnark get +1 to charge, movements etc etc)


Yes and no. Yes, you can have units from different kulturs in the same detachment. However, by the kultur rules in the codex, if you have more than one kultur in one detachment nobody benefits from their respective klan kulturs. The only exception are Flash Gitz, but they in turn lose their Freeboota Kultur abilities, they just don't make the other klan in the detachment lose theirs. So in your instance, Snikrot wouldn't get to fall back and charge/shoot again, Zhadsnark wouldn't get the movement buffs from Evil Sunz, Zaggy wouldn't get exploding 6's in CC and the Big Mek wouldn't have his rerolls or invuln.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/17 16:21:59


Post by: xlDuke


You can do it but you would lose the benefits from their Kultures because not every unit in the detachment has the same Clan keyword. You could still use Clan specific stratagems on them though.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/17 16:50:07


Post by: tneva82


Bit of cornercase. More common trick with space marine librarian tag team to get best spells with minimum tags but not applicable here. Not certain but feel not worth for orks


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 04:44:53


Post by: Dr.Duck


Not a fan of the Loota list atm, maybe it will grow on me later. Been looking more towards faster lists with Large moon bike squads to clear out screens.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 04:54:12


Post by: JimOnMars


 Dr.Duck wrote:
Not a fan of the Loota list atm, maybe it will grow on me later. Been looking more towards faster lists with Large moon bike squads to clear out screens.
Yea, I ran some lootas this weekend but I couldn't bring myself to do 25 of them, even though I had the models.

The 15 didn't do much, and were hardly worth grot shields.

Also...Dark reapers with Yvraine shooting them in the psychic phase kinda sucks. Are they worth 2 grot shields in one turn? I thought not and let them die.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 05:45:45


Post by: Dr.Duck


 JimOnMars wrote:
 Dr.Duck wrote:
Not a fan of the Loota list atm, maybe it will grow on me later. Been looking more towards faster lists with Large moon bike squads to clear out screens.
Yea, I ran some lootas this weekend but I couldn't bring myself to do 25 of them, even though I had the models.

The 15 didn't do much, and were hardly worth grot shields.

Also...Dark reapers with Yvraine shooting them in the psychic phase kinda sucks. Are they worth 2 grot shields in one turn? I thought not and let them die.


You really cant justify building a list around them for CP and grots without taking 25 of them so ya I agree. My problem is they list pretty much builds itself with the requirement being 3x battalions for CP. Once you build those you have like 300ish points left. Just not feeling it.

On the other hand while bikes dont have nearly as powerful a gun they do put out a stupid number of shots for 250ish points and am liking them more and more. Access to -1 to hit is also pretty neat.
thinking like maybe 2x12 bikes. 3 ScrapJets 90 boys, Trike and biker boss and some other stuff.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 07:30:27


Post by: tneva82


Number of shots is nice but dying when enemy says "boo" and not having any punch on those shots...

6 of them with big choppa nob took down 3 turns to clear down 5 basic primaris marines. They just don't have any punch.

Compare to lootas that even with 15 are blowing up vehicles each turn or wiping out entire squads of marines. -1 save and D2 are real big. Especially D2.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 09:38:06


Post by: Sluggaloo


My problem with lootas is that they've got such a hard counter through vekt denying grotshields, something a backline of mekguns doesn't care about.

Bad thing with a backline of mek guns is it gives the enemy juicy targets for AT guns to blast away at, and also gives away loads of killpoints.

Mek guns in a completely mechanised list however... That might be something really solid in a 2k list.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 09:48:16


Post by: tneva82


True. Luckily I don't play vs DE all the time. But yeah that's the thing that's going to keep loota star from tournament top fights steadily.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 13:44:33


Post by: Singleton Mosby


 Sluggaloo wrote:
Mek guns in a completely mechanised list however... That might be something really solid in a 2k list.


I like the threat these Mek gunz pose this edition. Have been feelding a couple over the last games and will build more to field bigger batteries of them. And best of all it is a good use of my arsenal of otherwise useless Looted Wagons.

Mainly playing Freebooterz and I've some issues filling the HQ slot. A Bikkerboss is nice for the points, but my list is more shooty then anything. Badrukk is already there because of rule of cool. What would you suggest?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 14:07:08


Post by: Blackie


 Singleton Mosby wrote:
 Sluggaloo wrote:
Mek guns in a completely mechanised list however... That might be something really solid in a 2k list.


I like the threat these Mek gunz pose this edition. Have been feelding a couple over the last games and will build more to field bigger batteries of them. And best of all it is a good use of my arsenal of otherwise useless Looted Wagons.

Mainly playing Freebooterz and I've some issues filling the HQ slot. A Bikkerboss is nice for the points, but my list is more shooty then anything. Badrukk is already there because of rule of cool. What would you suggest?


Do you play a pure shooting list? Because the kultur bonus is quite powerful in combat as well, just trigger it with units that already hit on 2s and quite hard like the biker boss or the bonebreaka/battle wagon. I'd always take a biker boss, he's a good fighter even without lots of buffs, helps for morale and having a mobile character could be useful as well. I'd also take badrukk so a possible third HQ, if you want a brigade, would probably be a weirdboy or a big mek maybe. But the biker boss would be the first option.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 14:25:20


Post by: tneva82


For hq as i can't use index 3 weirdboy and badruk will be 2 bat core. For 3rd sag mek and warboss on foot or trike is to go


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 14:33:42


Post by: Singleton Mosby


 Blackie wrote:

Do you play a pure shooting list? Because the kultur bonus is quite powerful in combat as well, just trigger it with units that already hit on 2s and quite hard like the biker boss or the bonebreaka/battle wagon. I'd always take a biker boss, he's a good fighter even without lots of buffs, helps for morale and having a mobile character could be useful as well. I'd also take badrukk so a possible third HQ, if you want a brigade, would probably be a weirdboy or a big mek maybe. But the biker boss would be the first option.


Currently I play small lists in preparation of a 1000 points tourney in a couple of weeks so there's no place for asecond focus like CC. So yes, mostly shooting. What role would a weirdboy or big mek fill in such a list?

One more thing: I was thinking of making the entire Freebootaz list a Dread Waagh detachment. Not because I've any dreads in the list, but because I love the Souped up Shokka. And with a possible +1 on shooting that gun is ace. That's is possible, ain't it?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 14:36:04


Post by: tneva82


 Singleton Mosby wrote:
 Blackie wrote:

Do you play a pure shooting list? Because the kultur bonus is quite powerful in combat as well, just trigger it with units that already hit on 2s and quite hard like the biker boss or the bonebreaka/battle wagon. I'd always take a biker boss, he's a good fighter even without lots of buffs, helps for morale and having a mobile character could be useful as well. I'd also take badrukk so a possible third HQ, if you want a brigade, would probably be a weirdboy or a big mek maybe. But the biker boss would be the first option.


Currently I play small lists in preparation of a 1000 points tourney in a couple of weeks so there's no place for asecond focus like CC. So yes, mostly shooting. What role would a weirdboy or big mek fill in such a list?

Good one. Da jump is awesome help repositioning stuff. Smite can also be used. If index allowed mek w/kff can also be good if you need more hq's to list to fill minimum's


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 14:59:45


Post by: Singleton Mosby


tneva82 wrote:
If index allowed mek w/kff can also be good if you need more hq's to list to fill minimum's


I can see the use of a Weirdboy. But prefere the souped-up SAG over a KFF.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 15:16:56


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Remember that the KFF only applies the invul to units wholly within its AoE. So you're probably only going to be able to reliably apply it to MSU and vehicles, as trying to use it to protect blobs of boyz is going to be tricky, unless you klump them all together.

This also makes the Mega Armored Mek even worse, as its so slow its going to be hard to keep things in its bubble.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 15:24:06


Post by: tneva82


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Remember that the KFF only applies the invul to units wholly within its AoE. So you're probably only going to be able to reliably apply it to MSU and vehicles, as trying to use it to protect blobs of boyz is going to be tricky, unless you klump them all together.

This also makes the Mega Armored Mek even worse, as its so slow its going to be hard to keep things in its bubble.


Though seems faq made definition of wholly within that all models in unit are within so sliver enough for furthest member. Anyway shooty army in 1k doesn't have much blobs(2x30 is half pts plus hq's so where's the gun's?) And small anyway so kff is enough


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 16:12:09


Post by: SemperMortis


 JNAProductions wrote:
How the hell do you get 5 dead Marines from 10 wounds? Did Choppas hit AP-1 while I was gone?
lol my mistake, I was still thinking -1 from the big choppa


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gitdakka wrote:
 Emicrania wrote:
I have a question about the lootas bomb. I am playing against it as I am painting my Ork army, so my and my friend found ourselves in a bit of a misunderstanding.
I dug out with my trygon+26 devourer t-gant and used the shoot again stratagem. That's 156 S4 4+ reroll one to hit shots. That gak hurts. If you are gonna play that you really need to make it impossible to shoot to bits for at least 3 turns
Anyway the problem arose when I declared to shoot the grots AND the lootas at the same time. Let's say I decided to shoot the grots first and I wipe them out . Than I proceed to shoot the lootas and he wanna use the grot shield stratagem; now there are no grots left, but i shoot both unit at the same time. He claimed that would result in the loss of the shielded Wounds on grots, I thought it was possible but not sure, so I resolved into shooting the lootas first instead and let him use the stratagem as he wanted.
Can anybody clear what it is the correct way to play grot Shields in a similar situation?


If you split fire then you (the shooter) choose the order in wich they are resolved. You resolve one target entirely before moving on to next. This would mean that if you resolve the grots first and then move on to the lootas, they might not have any grots left to use the strategem on.

Edit: Damn mellon beat me to it!


I would have split fire the grotz first because T2 vs T4 means you are wounding on 2s as opposed to 4s vs the lootas, so the Grot shield rule actually makes grotz tougher in that situation since you are significantly less likely to wound them compared to shooting them directly. Just something to think about.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 17:31:13


Post by: addnid


 Sluggaloo wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

Actually double choppa nob has only 1 attack more. BC has 3 S7 -1 D2 attacks AND 1 S5 attack from his choppa. You take 2 weapons. Big choppa+choppa is legal combo.

So we are looking at 9 S7 -1 D2 and 3 S5 attacks vs 20 S5 attacks.


Shout out to tneva for having the sharpest kunnin' analysis from our whole mob, you're dead sneaky and really look at things closely

As for the whole conversation regarding tping transports, I just reckon people need to count the tellyporta as a form of transport on it's own. If you've already paid the points for a transport, make use of it's increased mobility from turn one! I advocate saving the tp for units you're not planning on putting inside a transport. I've used that word all too much now. Transport.


I thought you had to choose which weapon you had and use it, and it alone. Unless you had twice the same. Does everyone her agree with tneva?

I plan on using nobz with big choppa Friday so I d like it a confirmation from this swell community


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 17:35:26


Post by: Barney000


I've not been able to have a game with the new codex yet but am really liking the idea off a full squad off deffkoptas with rokkits. Using the evil suns strat for 48" range on the bombs seems tempting and then the -1 strat to protect them from return fire. Has anyone had any experience using big squads?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 17:39:17


Post by: JNAProductions


addnid wrote:
 Sluggaloo wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

Actually double choppa nob has only 1 attack more. BC has 3 S7 -1 D2 attacks AND 1 S5 attack from his choppa. You take 2 weapons. Big choppa+choppa is legal combo.

So we are looking at 9 S7 -1 D2 and 3 S5 attacks vs 20 S5 attacks.


Shout out to tneva for having the sharpest kunnin' analysis from our whole mob, you're dead sneaky and really look at things closely

As for the whole conversation regarding tping transports, I just reckon people need to count the tellyporta as a form of transport on it's own. If you've already paid the points for a transport, make use of it's increased mobility from turn one! I advocate saving the tp for units you're not planning on putting inside a transport. I've used that word all too much now. Transport.


I thought you had to choose which weapon you had and use it, and it alone. Unless you had twice the same. Does everyone her agree with tneva?

I plan on using nobz with big choppa Friday so I d like it a confirmation from this swell community


You can mix and match freely between attacks.

In addition, most weapons like Choppas or Chainswords are worded such that you don't need to allocate ANY attacks to them to get an extra with them-they just give a bonus.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 17:51:28


Post by: addnid


 JNAProductions wrote:
addnid wrote:
 Sluggaloo wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

Actually double choppa nob has only 1 attack more. BC has 3 S7 -1 D2 attacks AND 1 S5 attack from his choppa. You take 2 weapons. Big choppa+choppa is legal combo.

So we are looking at 9 S7 -1 D2 and 3 S5 attacks vs 20 S5 attacks.


Shout out to tneva for having the sharpest kunnin' analysis from our whole mob, you're dead sneaky and really look at things closely

As for the whole conversation regarding tping transports, I just reckon people need to count the tellyporta as a form of transport on it's own. If you've already paid the points for a transport, make use of it's increased mobility from turn one! I advocate saving the tp for units you're not planning on putting inside a transport. I've used that word all too much now. Transport.


I thought you had to choose which weapon you had and use it, and it alone. Unless you had twice the same. Does everyone her agree with tneva?

I plan on using nobz with big choppa Friday so I d like it a confirmation from this swell community


You can mix and match freely between attacks.

In addition, most weapons like Choppas or Chainswords are worded such that you don't need to allocate ANY attacks to them to get an extra with them-they just give a bonus.


So if I am following what you are saying nobz with big choppa and choppa get an extra attack without even being « used » ? So a nob could do 4 big choppa attacks thanks to this combination of weapons ? Or is it 3 big choppa attacks and one choppa attack ?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 18:07:04


Post by: JNAProductions


The extra attack MUST be made with the Choppa.

So 3 Big Choppa swings, 1 Choppa.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 18:10:58


Post by: the_scotsman


addnid wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
addnid wrote:
 Sluggaloo wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

Actually double choppa nob has only 1 attack more. BC has 3 S7 -1 D2 attacks AND 1 S5 attack from his choppa. You take 2 weapons. Big choppa+choppa is legal combo.

So we are looking at 9 S7 -1 D2 and 3 S5 attacks vs 20 S5 attacks.


Shout out to tneva for having the sharpest kunnin' analysis from our whole mob, you're dead sneaky and really look at things closely

As for the whole conversation regarding tping transports, I just reckon people need to count the tellyporta as a form of transport on it's own. If you've already paid the points for a transport, make use of it's increased mobility from turn one! I advocate saving the tp for units you're not planning on putting inside a transport. I've used that word all too much now. Transport.


I thought you had to choose which weapon you had and use it, and it alone. Unless you had twice the same. Does everyone her agree with tneva?

I plan on using nobz with big choppa Friday so I d like it a confirmation from this swell community


You can mix and match freely between attacks.

In addition, most weapons like Choppas or Chainswords are worded such that you don't need to allocate ANY attacks to them to get an extra with them-they just give a bonus.


So if I am following what you are saying nobz with big choppa and choppa get an extra attack without even being « used » ? So a nob could do 4 big choppa attacks thanks to this combination of weapons ? Or is it 3 big choppa attacks and one choppa attack ?


The choppa is worded

"gain 1 bonus attack with this weapon every time the user fights"

Or somesuch very close to that phrasing. So, you get all your regular 3 BC attacks, plus 1 bonus choppa attack.

Typically ive been running my nob squads as

Boss with Saw (I like the str bonus but also like keeping flat 2 damage) and kombi-rokkit
50% Big Choppa/Choppa
50% Choppa/Choppa
ammo runt

The chop-chops soak wounds up and the rokkit uses the ammo runt reroll every turn which gets it that 55% hit ( I consider any rokkit that can have 50% or 55% hit, so tankbustas or gretchin or always ammo runted, to be fairly costed and worth it)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 19:33:53


Post by: JimOnMars


Barney000 wrote:
I've not been able to have a game with the new codex yet but am really liking the idea off a full squad off deffkoptas with rokkits. Using the evil suns strat for 48" range on the bombs seems tempting and then the -1 strat to protect them from return fire. Has anyone had any experience using big squads?
The bombs are gone from the codex, so if you are using index koptas you will need to pay the index price...and presumably they don't get kultures. Not likely any real value.

I have used some, and they can get some timely rokkit hits, finishing off vehicles that were wounded by tankbustas or mek guns, or blasting heavy infantry. They are pretty flexible with that range, stopping on objectives or getting behind things.

Mostly I've used them as distraction carnifexes, to be honest. 250 points for 5 is a bit high for the damage they can do.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 20:31:10


Post by: MannyMcCoconut


Has anyone had any luck using the Deffkoptas for ramming speed mortal wounds? It seems like they could be a cheap way to deliver targeted mortal wounds where needed.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 20:41:29


Post by: Barney000


 JimOnMars wrote:
Barney000 wrote:
I've not been able to have a game with the new codex yet but am really liking the idea off a full squad off deffkoptas with rokkits. Using the evil suns strat for 48" range on the bombs seems tempting and then the -1 strat to protect them from return fire. Has anyone had any experience using big squads?
The bombs are gone from the codex, so if you are using index koptas you will need to pay the index price...and presumably they don't get kultures. Not likely any real value.

I have used some, and they can get some timely rokkit hits, finishing off vehicles that were wounded by tankbustas or mek guns, or blasting heavy infantry. They are pretty flexible with that range, stopping on objectives or getting behind things.

Mostly I've used them as distraction carnifexes, to be honest. 250 points for 5 is a bit high for the damage they can do.


I thought that using the GW flowchart you could use the codex datasheet but then chose a wargear option from the index? Please correct me if I am wrong.

A squad of five koptas would average about 9 mortal wounds to an squad of 5+ models, using the bombs. To do that with a 48" range seems powerful. Add in shooting and they could even make their points back in one turn against the right target.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 20:55:50


Post by: MannyMcCoconut


Barney000 wrote:

A squad of five koptas would average about 9 mortal wounds to an squad of 5+ models, using the bombs. To do that with a 48" range seems powerful. Add in shooting and they could even make their points back in one turn against the right target.


I don't have the book in front of me, but I believe that ramming speed can only be used on a single vehicle model. I don't think it works on a squadron.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 21:11:56


Post by: Barney000


 MannyMcCoconut wrote:
Barney000 wrote:

A squad of five koptas would average about 9 mortal wounds to an squad of 5+ models, using the bombs. To do that with a 48" range seems powerful. Add in shooting and they could even make their points back in one turn against the right target.


I don't have the book in front of me, but I believe that ramming speed can only be used on a single vehicle model. I don't think it works on a squadron.


Oh I meant using the bigbomms from the index.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 21:13:29


Post by: JimOnMars


Barney000 wrote:
 JimOnMars wrote:
Barney000 wrote:
I've not been able to have a game with the new codex yet but am really liking the idea off a full squad off deffkoptas with rokkits. Using the evil suns strat for 48" range on the bombs seems tempting and then the -1 strat to protect them from return fire. Has anyone had any experience using big squads?
The bombs are gone from the codex, so if you are using index koptas you will need to pay the index price...and presumably they don't get kultures. Not likely any real value.

I have used some, and they can get some timely rokkit hits, finishing off vehicles that were wounded by tankbustas or mek guns, or blasting heavy infantry. They are pretty flexible with that range, stopping on objectives or getting behind things.

Mostly I've used them as distraction carnifexes, to be honest. 250 points for 5 is a bit high for the damage they can do.


I thought that using the GW flowchart you could use the codex datasheet but then chose a wargear option from the index? Please correct me if I am wrong.

A squad of five koptas would average about 9 mortal wounds to an squad of 5+ models, using the bombs. To do that with a 48" range seems powerful. Add in shooting and they could even make their points back in one turn against the right target.
Hmmm....I thought that since the bomb wasn't an option (it was already included on the index koptas) you couldn't select it as an optional item...but I may have that wrong.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 22:18:03


Post by: Quackzo


There was some discussion on lootas but didn't want to quote the whole thing. Are people only finding 25 lootas viable? What about one unit of 15 lootas? I own 12 and am interested in running them but tentative about buying more and committing to 20+ lootas.

JimOnMars wrote:Hmmm....I thought that since the bomb wasn't an option (it was already included on the index koptas) you couldn't select it as an optional item...but I may have that wrong.


I've got the index here and the bigbomm is a wargear option, so you can take it with the Codex Deffkopta in accordance with the Designers Commentary.

MannyMcCoconut wrote:
I don't have the book in front of me, but I believe that ramming speed can only be used on a single vehicle model. I don't think it works on a squadron.


It applies to any VEHICLE unit so a full Deffkoptas squad can use it. The number of mortal wounds isn't affected by the model count.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 23:36:52


Post by: ajax_xaja


Having not run lootas before, is the STR7 AP-1 even effective enough on its own?

I've always loved the look of artillery better, and Mek Guns just seem like they get the job done better for cheaper.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/18 23:48:08


Post by: ballzonya


What are the most competitive forgeworld unit for the orks?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/19 00:06:25


Post by: BaconCatBug


ballzonya wrote:
What are the most competitive forgeworld unit for the orks?
Zhadsnark da Ripper. A better Biker Boss that is still "legal" if you can't use the GW indexes anymore.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/19 00:47:36


Post by: ballzonya


I guess I should have specified, besides zhadsnark cause he's the obvious choice. Kill tank is good?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/19 01:05:31


Post by: BaconCatBug


ballzonya wrote:
I guess I should have specified, besides zhadsnark cause he's the obvious choice. Kill tank is good?
Discounting Zhadsnark, then nothing is usable.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/19 01:09:58


Post by: ballzonya


That bad eh? Too bad cause I love the look of the meka dread and kill tank


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/19 02:01:22


Post by: Eihnlazer


Ehh, Garg squiggoth is still useable. Granted all titanic models without a 4++ or better have it rough in the current meta with macro weaponry.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/19 02:02:00


Post by: JimOnMars


Regarding the Dread Waaagh detachment, does it require a minimum number of models, or specific ones?

I would love to use it as a single soup-ed up SAG, without walkers, just the mek. Would that be a legal detachment?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/19 02:45:21


Post by: Grimskul


 JimOnMars wrote:
Regarding the Dread Waaagh detachment, does it require a minimum number of models, or specific ones?

I would love to use it as a single soup-ed up SAG, without walkers, just the mek. Would that be a legal detachment?


Yup, there's no model requirement, you can literally choose any detachment to upgrade it to become a Dread WAAAGH! detachment, even with zero walkers in it, bizarrely enough.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/19 03:02:59


Post by: JimOnMars


 Grimskul wrote:
 JimOnMars wrote:
Regarding the Dread Waaagh detachment, does it require a minimum number of models, or specific ones?

I would love to use it as a single soup-ed up SAG, without walkers, just the mek. Would that be a legal detachment?


Yup, there's no model requirement, you can literally choose any detachment to upgrade it to become a Dread WAAAGH! detachment, even with zero walkers in it, bizarrely enough.
So a Brigade can be a Dread Waaagh????!?!? In other words, non-bad moons can shoot twice now, rick cot and tree? ETA: Only walkers and meks can use the stratagem. No hope for my bloodaxe tankbustas!

Or: two separate units of bad moons can shoot twice every turn...once with each stratagem. That's a lot of lead.






No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/19 03:04:18


Post by: gungo


ballzonya wrote:
That bad eh? Too bad cause I love the look of the meka dread and kill tank
the men’s dread is alright Like the Garg squig. It’s just not super competitive and mainly good for a fairly mobile kff.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/19 06:15:27


Post by: tneva82


 JimOnMars wrote:
Barney000 wrote:
I've not been able to have a game with the new codex yet but am really liking the idea off a full squad off deffkoptas with rokkits. Using the evil suns strat for 48" range on the bombs seems tempting and then the -1 strat to protect them from return fire. Has anyone had any experience using big squads?
The bombs are gone from the codex, so if you are using index koptas you will need to pay the index price...and presumably they don't get kultures. Not likely any real value.

I have used some, and they can get some timely rokkit hits, finishing off vehicles that were wounded by tankbustas or mek guns, or blasting heavy infantry. They are pretty flexible with that range, stopping on objectives or getting behind things.

Mostly I've used them as distraction carnifexes, to be honest. 250 points for 5 is a bit high for the damage they can do.


You use dethkopta price from codex and index price for bombs...which is free(one of GW's silly ideas. Let's give unit free upgrade with no downside whatsoever...ummm...yeah? WTF? Ditto for tank busta bombs in codex in boyz mobs...).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 MannyMcCoconut wrote:
Has anyone had any luck using the Deffkoptas for ramming speed mortal wounds? It seems like they could be a cheap way to deliver targeted mortal wounds where needed.


2CP for d3 mortal wounds is pretty steep...Wouldn't be my default strategy. 2CP can generally be used for more effective thing like fire tank bustas or lootas one more time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Quackzo wrote:
There was some discussion on lootas but didn't want to quote the whole thing. Are people only finding 25 lootas viable? What about one unit of 15 lootas? I own 12 and am interested in running them but tentative about buying more and committing to 20+ lootas.


15 has done well enough for me. 25 would be better but I'm hesitant to get 10 more figuring GW will hit nerfbat once lootas have sold enough.

Has killed unit of death company and nearly wiped sanquinary squad(got the 1 on reroll he needed for morale to keep that last alive. Pretty big). 2 dakkajets, one shotting riptide, general mayhem all around. Only time it has been less than stellar was against eldars when I misused them(lesson to self: don't prioritize wave serpents with. Losing D2 sucks)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ajax_xaja wrote:
Having not run lootas before, is the STR7 AP-1 even effective enough on its own?

I've always loved the look of artillery better, and Mek Guns just seem like they get the job done better for cheaper.


With 15 mob you are looking at scoring 34 HITS in average on turn if you so choose. 29 if you want to save up on CP's and not use more dakka. That's blowing up stuff at will. Full squad of 25 would average 57 at full power. That's been doing havoc.

Mek guns run into issue that if you don't have like dozen or lots of other threatening vehicles they will get sniped out by AT guns. You need something like two battlewagons loaded up with nasty stuff to ensure enemy doesn't have automatic choice in what to do with AT guns. My attempts at 4-6 mek guns with otherwise infantry heavy army(3 deff dreads but those are irrelevant. If they start on board they aren't threatening anybody T1 so can be ignored T1 anyway. If they start in tellyporta they aren't shootable on T1 anyway so T1 enemy will just kill the mek guns) has been total failure for this reason.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/19 07:43:28


Post by: Blackie


 Quackzo wrote:
There was some discussion on lootas but didn't want to quote the whole thing. Are people only finding 25 lootas viable? What about one unit of 15 lootas? I own 12 and am interested in running them but tentative about buying more and committing to 20+ lootas.


12-15 are also good, and of course you need gretchins to shield them. They perform good if you have a list based on footsloggers though, I mostly play with vehicles and tried 15 lootas as an alternative to 10 tankbustas + 2 bomb squigs + trukk sinche there's just 1 point of difference. I prefer the bustas but that's mostly because of target saturation. Anyway lootas are dead weight without gretchins and gretchins are mandatory to provide the CPs for double tapping with lootas, not only to shield them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:


Mek guns run into issue that if you don't have like dozen or lots of other threatening vehicles they will get sniped out by AT guns. You need something like two battlewagons loaded up with nasty stuff to ensure enemy doesn't have automatic choice in what to do with AT guns. My attempts at 4-6 mek guns with otherwise infantry heavy army(3 deff dreads but those are irrelevant. If they start on board they aren't threatening anybody T1 so can be ignored T1 anyway. If they start in tellyporta they aren't shootable on T1 anyway so T1 enemy will just kill the mek guns) has been total failure for this reason.


Yeah I agree, mek gunz really shine if they're in high numbers or if they have target saturation. I usually don't go heavy with mek gunz, just 2-3 of them and they're tipycally ignored since 3x deff rollas vehicles and two trukks full of bustas are priority targets than the artillery. Up to 6-7 if I cut a unit of bustas and its trukk. Still ignored by enemy firepower as long as the bonebreakas/BWs are alive, deep strikers are more concerning.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/19 08:14:09


Post by: Singleton Mosby


ballzonya wrote:
I guess I should have specified, besides zhadsnark cause he's the obvious choice. Kill tank is good?


I've had quite a killing spree with the Big Trakk with Suppa-skorcha. That weapon is ace. But perhaps not in a competetive environment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Singleton Mosby wrote:
ballzonya wrote:
I guess I should have specified, besides zhadsnark cause he's the obvious choice. Kill tank is good?


I've had quite a killing spree with the Big Trakk with Suppa-skorcha. That weapon is ace. But perhaps not in a competetive environment.


 Grimskul wrote:

Yup, there's no model requirement, you can literally choose any detachment to upgrade it to become a Dread WAAAGH! detachment, even with zero walkers in it, bizarrely enough.


It's just a SAG which costs an additional CP. Worth it if you ask me. Being Freebootaz or Bad Moons would make it a Dead killy weapon. Going to give it a first go this weekend.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/19 11:28:25


Post by: Pandabeer


 JimOnMars wrote:
 Grimskul wrote:
 JimOnMars wrote:
Regarding the Dread Waaagh detachment, does it require a minimum number of models, or specific ones?

I would love to use it as a single soup-ed up SAG, without walkers, just the mek. Would that be a legal detachment?


Yup, there's no model requirement, you can literally choose any detachment to upgrade it to become a Dread WAAAGH! detachment, even with zero walkers in it, bizarrely enough.
So a Brigade can be a Dread Waaagh????!?!? In other words, non-bad moons can shoot twice now, rick cot and tree? ETA: Only walkers and meks can use the stratagem. No hope for my bloodaxe tankbustas!

Or: two separate units of bad moons can shoot twice every turn...once with each stratagem. That's a lot of lead.






Well, I'd love to use that fire twice stratagem on a Morkanaut...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/20 02:36:39


Post by: flaming tadpole


So I think I've settled on what I want to run competitively. I decided to go with a tankbusta star instead of lootas because I don't like the cp investment to make lootas viable and am kinda bored with them anyways. Feedback welcome.

Spoiler:

2000pts
battalion: evil sunz

HQ
Bikerboss - killa klaw, brutal but kunnin
Big mek - KFF

Troops
3x30 boyz - 20 sluggas/10 shootas, nob w/ bc, (1 unit in teleporta)

Elites
2 painboys

Heavy support
3 smasha's

battalion: bad moonz

HQ
Big mek - KFF
Weirdboi - da jump

Troops
30 grots
20 grots
10 grots

Elites
15 tankbustas
10 tankbustas

Battalion: bad moonz

HQ
weirdboy - warpath
weirdboy - fist of Gork

Troops
3x10 grots


Basic gameplan is warpath and da jump unit of boys turns 1 and 2 with teleporta boys coming in on 2. Rest of the army stays in the 5++/6+++ bubble with grots and hovers around middle, while smashas camp backfield obj. Overall I think I like this build more because it allows me to be mobile and control the board better. Also will save a lot of cp's for things like green tide, extra stikkbombs, ect.





No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/20 05:14:30


Post by: JimOnMars


 flaming tadpole wrote:
So I think I've settled on what I want to run competitively. I decided to go with a tankbusta star instead of lootas because I don't like the cp investment to make lootas viable and am kinda bored with them anyways. Feedback welcome.

Spoiler:

2000pts
battalion: evil sunz

HQ
Bikerboss - killa klaw, brutal but kunnin
Big mek - KFF

Troops
3x30 boyz - 20 sluggas/10 shootas, nob w/ bc, (1 unit in teleporta)

Elites
2 painboys

Heavy support
3 smasha's

battalion: bad moonz

HQ
Big mek - KFF
Weirdboi - da jump

Troops
30 grots
20 grots
10 grots

Elites
15 tankbustas
10 tankbustas

Battalion: bad moonz

HQ
weirdboy - warpath
weirdboy - fist of Gork

Troops
3x10 grots


Basic gameplan is warpath and da jump unit of boys turns 1 and 2 with teleporta boys coming in on 2. Rest of the army stays in the 5++/6+++ bubble with grots and hovers around middle, while smashas camp backfield obj. Overall I think I like this build more because it allows me to be mobile and control the board better. Also will save a lot of cp's for things like green tide, extra stikkbombs, ect.
If you trade the painboyz for deffkoptas and a few more tankbustas, you could get a brigade for two of the battalions, for two more CP. Personally I'd take at least one trukk for the bustas...not sure if you can squeeze it in.

No matter what, I'd make the smashas bad moons...they will probably roll a couple ones a turn, unless they get pasted before you move.

It seems to me this is going to be our go-to list, grots, bustas and smashas.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/20 06:08:25


Post by: office_waaagh


I think you're going to need some morale control for the grots...that unit of 30 is going to melt. Otherwise I expect your big problem is going to be the 24 inch range on those tankbustas.

Worth considering that Tankbustas already get full rerolls to hit when shooting vehicles, so the Bad Moons Kultur doesn't do a whole lot for them, whereas the Evil Sunz Kultur will let them fire at full BS if they advance and give them a larger threat radius. Downside is they lose access to the double-shoot stratagem, so depends what you want more out of them.

I guess my other main comment is that if you fought a mirror match against your own list except with the tankbustas swapped out for lootas, you'd get wrecked. 425 points is a lot to sink into such a niche unit. Some ranged anti-horde would go a long way.

All in all, I like this list. You've been very disciplined with unit selection, there's nothing here for your opponent's anti-armour assets to sink their teeth into, and nothing you're doing is terribly CP dependent leaving you with flexibility to use them where they're needed. The "effectively 4++" grots can control the field with a little morale support, leaving the Boyz free to run amok, grab objectives, and beat up on targets of opportunity. Ideally 90 Boyz moving an average 10.5" per turn and jumping around the board will put enough pressure on your opponent that your grot horde can control the mid-table relatively unmolested.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/20 07:55:27


Post by: Blackie


 JimOnMars wrote:
 flaming tadpole wrote:
So I think I've settled on what I want to run competitively. I decided to go with a tankbusta star instead of lootas because I don't like the cp investment to make lootas viable and am kinda bored with them anyways. Feedback welcome.

Spoiler:

2000pts
battalion: evil sunz

HQ
Bikerboss - killa klaw, brutal but kunnin
Big mek - KFF

Troops
3x30 boyz - 20 sluggas/10 shootas, nob w/ bc, (1 unit in teleporta)

Elites
2 painboys

Heavy support
3 smasha's

battalion: bad moonz

HQ
Big mek - KFF
Weirdboi - da jump

Troops
30 grots
20 grots
10 grots

Elites
15 tankbustas
10 tankbustas

Battalion: bad moonz

HQ
weirdboy - warpath
weirdboy - fist of Gork

Troops
3x10 grots


Basic gameplan is warpath and da jump unit of boys turns 1 and 2 with teleporta boys coming in on 2. Rest of the army stays in the 5++/6+++ bubble with grots and hovers around middle, while smashas camp backfield obj. Overall I think I like this build more because it allows me to be mobile and control the board better. Also will save a lot of cp's for things like green tide, extra stikkbombs, ect.
If you trade the painboyz for deffkoptas and a few more tankbustas, you could get a brigade for two of the battalions, for two more CP. Personally I'd take at least one trukk for the bustas...not sure if you can squeeze it in.

No matter what, I'd make the smashas bad moons...they will probably roll a couple ones a turn, unless they get pasted before you move.

It seems to me this is going to be our go-to list, grots, bustas and smashas.


Smasha gunz can't benefit from any kultur trait so they can't re-roll ones, unless I missed something from CA.

Trukk for bustas would be useless since I think he's planning on mobbing the 25 of the up. In fact this is basically the same tactics than the lootas bomb but with tankbustas instead. You save a lot of re-rolls and gain damage output against T7 and T8 but thanks to rokkits shorter range they'd be harder to screen by gretchins as they can't just sit in a corner. Still CP thirsty, you'll likely invest the same amount of CPs on that star than the lootas one, barring che eventual re-roll for the D3 shots. I'd probably just take 15 tellyported bustas plus 6 bomb squigs and more mek gunz instead.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/20 08:34:11


Post by: tneva82


 Blackie wrote:
Trukk for bustas would be useless since I think he's planning on mobbing the 25 of the up. In fact this is basically the same tactics than the lootas bomb but with tankbustas instead. You save a lot of re-rolls and gain damage output against T7 and T8 but thanks to rokkits shorter range they'd be harder to screen by gretchins as they can't just sit in a corner. Still CP thirsty, you'll likely invest the same amount of CPs on that star than the lootas one, barring che eventual re-roll for the D3 shots. I'd probably just take 15 tellyported bustas plus 6 bomb squigs and more mek gunz instead.


Slightly less need for more dakka saves some CP saves something.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/20 10:44:24


Post by: IronSlug


Quick question for you warbosses, with Deathskull trait what would you choose between 5 kommandos with 2 rokkits and a single rokkit kopta in a low point setting (800-1000pts) ?

2 rokkit shots each
kommandos are more expensive by 12 points
both can tp turn 2 (but kommandos are not limited to do it 14" from an edge, but 14" is a lot so)
as deathskull, kommandos have "dis is ours", which is nice but there is just 5 of them so
kopta is way more mobile
they seem roughly equivalent to me as for survivability and (negligeable) melee output

Thoughs ?



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/20 10:52:20


Post by: tneva82


T5 4+ save 4 wounds is IMO more survivable than 5 T4 6+ 1W models. Especially when in speed you can hide easily(more so in small games). Also morale is less issue. Lose 3 kommandos and you are looking at possibly failing morale right away.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/20 11:11:00


Post by: IronSlug


It's 6 wounds on the kommandos thanks to the nob. ANd with cover you can easily get 4+ (3+ on the kopta).

Moral is a fair point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bonus question : As I read it, you roll for the SAG strength before firing the weapon, so before choosing a target, am I right ?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/20 14:03:23


Post by: the_scotsman


 BaconCatBug wrote:
ballzonya wrote:
I guess I should have specified, besides zhadsnark cause he's the obvious choice. Kill tank is good?
Discounting Zhadsnark, then nothing is usable.


surely the chinork is usable? Run it Deffskullz and throw a KMB on it and you've got a flying trukk with an actual gun.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/20 14:40:51


Post by: Vineheart01


i dont own a chinork but i hear a lot of praise for the thing.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/20 16:55:49


Post by: office_waaagh


 IronSlug wrote:
It's 6 wounds on the kommandos thanks to the nob. ANd with cover you can easily get 4+ (3+ on the kopta).

Moral is a fair point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bonus question : As I read it, you roll for the SAG strength before firing the weapon, so before choosing a target, am I right ?

I think it depends on what's in the rest of your army. If your whole army is infantry except for one deffkopta, that one deffkopta is going to attract all of your opponent's multi-damage shooting. On the other hand if the rest of your army is mechanized except for one little unit of dismounted kommandos sitting on an objective, every bolter within 24" is going to have exactly one obvious target. Neither unit is terribly survivable if your opponent decides s/he really wants them to die, so they'll have to rely on being inconspicuous/not posing much threat to do their job. To that end, if possible (ie, if you have the models) I'd drop the rokkits either way as they won't do much (vs T8 3+ you'll get one successful wound every ~3 turns, so you're paying 24 points in rokkits to do 3 damage once over the course of the game *if* they survive long enough to do it) and those points could be put to much better use elsewhere, say by taking 3 more kommandos.

The wording of the shokk attack gun rule in my iBooks version of the codex says "roll for strength before you fire," so it depends whether you read "before you fire" to mean "before making a shooting attack" (ie, at the beginning of the shooting sequence) or "before you roll to hit for that weapon". For the sake of consistency with similar rules, I would read it as "before you roll to hit" (but after you designate a target).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/20 17:45:44


Post by: flaming tadpole


 office_waaagh wrote:
I think you're going to need some morale control for the grots...that unit of 30 is going to melt. Otherwise I expect your big problem is going to be the 24 inch range on those tankbustas.

Worth considering that Tankbustas already get full rerolls to hit when shooting vehicles, so the Bad Moons Kultur doesn't do a whole lot for them, whereas the Evil Sunz Kultur will let them fire at full BS if they advance and give them a larger threat radius. Downside is they lose access to the double-shoot stratagem, so depends what you want more out of them.

I guess my other main comment is that if you fought a mirror match against your own list except with the tankbustas swapped out for lootas, you'd get wrecked. 425 points is a lot to sink into such a niche unit. Some ranged anti-horde would go a long way.

All in all, I like this list. You've been very disciplined with unit selection, there's nothing here for your opponent's anti-armour assets to sink their teeth into, and nothing you're doing is terribly CP dependent leaving you with flexibility to use them where they're needed. The "effectively 4++" grots can control the field with a little morale support, leaving the Boyz free to run amok, grab objectives, and beat up on targets of opportunity. Ideally 90 Boyz moving an average 10.5" per turn and jumping around the board will put enough pressure on your opponent that your grot horde can control the mid-table relatively unmolested.


Ya your right on the morale issue. I spose I could just make my warboss badmoonz since he was just gonna chill with the blob until he had an opening to charge something juicy, and by then I'd probably be close enough where the extra movement wouldn't make much difference. Otherwise I'll probably just drop a smasha and bc off a nob and add a runtherd.

Tankbustas I'm definitely keeping bad moonz since 50 rokkits >>>> extra 2" and I can always use extra dakka to negate the penalty for the 1-2 times I'll have to advance and shoot them. Also nice to have reroll 1's for when I'm not shooting a vehicle. But ya if I was just running a normal busta squad I could see some use in using evil sunz.

A mirror matchup with loota star I think would be more decided by who got first turn, but if they got first turn then I agree I would 100% get rekt. Overall I don't think my list is the end all be all for competitive orks. Frankly the mere existence of the Vect stratagem makes any grot shield dependent list fold, I mostly just like the idea of shooting 50 rokkits at stuff every turn (especially if I was going against knight player). Personally, I think a slightly modified version of green tide is still the best TAC list orks can bring right now.



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/20 19:25:06


Post by: Moriarty


 Vineheart01 wrote:
i dont own a chinork but i hear a lot of praise for the thing.


Chinork is easy: truck + two deff kopta, - wheels. Rearrange pert to suit.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/20 19:36:06


Post by: tneva82


Deff koptas are pricey ones though. I did mine from land speeder stosm and plasticard


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/20 19:42:36


Post by: Nym


 IronSlug wrote:
Bonus question : As I read it, you roll for the SAG strength before firing the weapon, so before choosing a target, am I right ?

The answer is in the rulebook, page 5.

1) Choose Unit to Shoot With
2) Choose Targets
3) Choose Ranged Weapon

So you pick your target first, then you roll for Strength.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/20 19:44:30


Post by: flaming tadpole


Aren't baby squigoths still decent? Haven't played with them in about a year so Idk if they got hit with a nerf recently.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/20 19:59:13


Post by: Vineheart01


Babysquigs seem decent, 165pts for a T7 18W 4+ save model that moves 10/8/6" and allows its 10 passengers to keep shooting while it mauls things. Lacks a heavy weapon worth using though, only has kannon/lobba/zzap access and can opt to not take one

Comparatively to the gargsquig, its roughly 3 squigs per gargsquig in points, but the gargsquig will pulverize anything it charges and it has a lot of guns on top of the 20 passengers while the squigs just have the 10 passengers and dont want to charge big things. Even the weakest gargsquig is as strong as the full strength squig, though its WS dropped so technically a little bit weaker.

But, i just hate the fething model for the squig. Gargsquig is gorgeous, regular squig is fugly...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/20 20:51:55


Post by: flaming tadpole


ya they're pretty ugly. How often do Garg squigs even survive long enough to charge something these days? I feel like they would just get melted.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/20 21:46:18


Post by: Vineheart01


For me, usually it does, but my area doesnt have any macro weapons. At all. Only supers i see arent using macros.
I dont think anybody owns a Titan. Only macro weapon im aware of in my area is my ta'unar's big shoulder guns, which im not even using because that thing is horrible atm.

Probably the reason i have so much fun with it because it actually takes focus to kill it w/o macros.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/20 23:56:07


Post by: flaming tadpole


True haha. do forgeworld models gain klan kulturs? I know the titans won't, but if the little squiggy's did that could make them decent.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/21 07:59:55


Post by: Clang


I'm deciding how to model a Bonebreaka, and would like to know how peeps have been equipping theirs. As a base, it's a BW with a special deff rolla (the Bonebreaka Ram) and an 'ard case - what else is worthwhile for this vehicle, which presumably spends games in the enemy's face, ramming stuff as much as possible?

- a Killkannon looks tempting, as the short range doesn't matter and there's no troop-carrying penalty. No other big gun instead?
- big shootas would usually be wasted, or are they useful as screen shredders?

Anything from the BW Equipment list?
- Grot Rigger does look useful, unless the Bonebreaka is expected to die in the first few turns?
- the Claw or Ball do buff melee combat, but might be unnecessary?
- Is the Lobba worth the points cost for the fun ability to shoot over obstacles and occasionally hit something?

Any other thoughts? I can probably magnetize most 'sometimes useful' options.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/21 08:06:15


Post by: Weazel


 Clang wrote:
I'm deciding how to model a Bonebreaka, and would like to know how peeps have been equipping theirs. As a base, it's a BW with a special deff rolla (the Bonebreaka Ram) and an 'ard case - what else is worthwhile for this vehicle, which presumably spends games in the enemy's face, ramming stuff as much as possible?

- a Killkannon looks tempting, as the short range doesn't matter and there's no troop-carrying penalty. No other big gun instead?
- big shootas would usually be wasted, or are they useful as screen shredders?

Anything from the BW Equipment list?
- Grot Rigger does look useful, unless the Bonebreaka is expected to die in the first few turns?
- the Claw or Ball do buff melee combat, but might be unnecessary?
- Is the Lobba worth the points cost for the fun ability to shoot over obstacles and occasionally hit something?

Any other thoughts? I can probably magnetize most 'sometimes useful' options.


Big Shootas don't even need magnets really. But they're not completely useless, Evil Sunz can fire at full BS even after advancing. That said, if you want to keep them at the most competitive, don't take any guns at all. Killkannon is the best big gun but it's heavy so you probably don't get to fire it. It's "only" 15 points so killing a marine is going to pay it back but I don't think it's a competitive choice. The turret does make the Bonebreaka look absolutely bitchin' so I might take it at least sometimes. Incidentally I'm also building my Bonebreakas at the moment.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/21 08:42:28


Post by: Blackie


There's no need to glue/magnetize the big shootas or the turret, just use gravity.

I always play the BWs/Bonebreakas with no weapons, just the rollas.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/21 09:02:01


Post by: PiñaColada


Since I play Evil Sunz I put 4 big shootas on mine, but that's mostly because I like rolling some dice. Realistically speaking you're getting 1 round of shooting with them, that's not worth 20 points. I would avoid the killkannon since it's a heavy weapon and you should be advancing. The zzap gun and lobba are plain just not good enough. Just build the rest of you list and if you have some extra points left over then start chucking big shootas on them I'd say, or a grot rigger I guess since they're the same amount of points. I'd just model the grot rigger on the vehicle anyway since he looks cool

So it's probably best to run them naked, but I hope that we get some point drops on the big shootas in the March FAQ since stuff like heavy stubbers dropped to 2 points.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/21 16:08:10


Post by: Vineheart01


I usually have 4 bigshootas and the killkannon on my bonebreaka but i could understand people not putting any guns on it, since thats a fair bit of points that wont be doing much if you advance (and now that we have a waaaagh that works on vehicles, advancing it is pretty easy to think about). Killkannon doesnt neuter the transport capacity, i could be wrong on the stock BW but the bonebreaka/gunwagon doesnt.
I just love the look of the dang thing with full gear on it. I have one assembled/primed (with the annoying to paint around bits not glued on like the 'ard case) and even flat black it looks sexy.

FW models did get kultures, its in the faq that dropped day1-2 of the codex. Supers have to have either the 3-5 LoW detachment or the Command detachment to get kultures though, as the single LoW slot aux slot specifically denies it. Oh no an ork player has to use 3 more HQs to get his super kulture rules? oh...oh thats SO hard to do! *cough*


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/21 16:40:07


Post by: Clang


Thanks, guys - that's the Xmas holiday modelling project sorted out then

I was puzzled by your references to not firing kannons etc while advancing - have I misunderstood the BW's Mobile Fortress 'this model ignores the penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons' rule?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/21 16:46:53


Post by: Grimskul


 Clang wrote:
Thanks, guys - that's the Xmas holiday modelling project sorted out then

I was puzzled by your references to not firing kannons etc while advancing - have I misunderstood the BW's Mobile Fortress 'this model ignores the penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons' rule?


Well, the killkannon is heavy and all mobile fortress does is not give you the -1 to hit for moving and shooting with a heavy weapon. It doesn't change it to an assault weapon, which is the only type of weapon that you can advance and shoot with.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/21 17:25:10


Post by: Vineheart01


Mobile Fortress is MOVING and firing weapons, Advance is different.
You cannot normally fire anything except Assault weapons when you advance, and they fire at -1 to hit.
Mobile Fortress is specifically talking about just regular moving and firing, which is heavy weapons. Still cant fire heavy if you advance.
Killkannons are pretty good right now imo, theyre FINALLY priced right, but are expensive enough to justify leaving them off the bonebreaka.

Wagons are pretty fast but i find im often JUUUUST shy of a "safe" charge range if i never advance.

On topic of Mobile Fortress....is there ANY rules that it actually transfers to its occupants other than Freeboota +1 to hit when it goes off? I swear everything that should work has a stipulation where "Nope, open top no workie" like Mobile Fortress does (in the faq anyway dunno why they didnt put that in the stupid codex when it was faq'd in the index and refaq'd in the post-release faq)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/21 17:40:27


Post by: Grimskul


 Vineheart01 wrote:
Mobile Fortress is MOVING and firing weapons, Advance is different.
You cannot normally fire anything except Assault weapons when you advance, and they fire at -1 to hit.
Mobile Fortress is specifically talking about just regular moving and firing, which is heavy weapons. Still cant fire heavy if you advance.
Killkannons are pretty good right now imo, theyre FINALLY priced right, but are expensive enough to justify leaving them off the bonebreaka.

Wagons are pretty fast but i find im often JUUUUST shy of a "safe" charge range if i never advance.

On topic of Mobile Fortress....is there ANY rules that it actually transfers to its occupants other than Freeboota +1 to hit when it goes off? I swear everything that should work has a stipulation where "Nope, open top no workie" like Mobile Fortress does (in the faq anyway dunno why they didnt put that in the stupid codex when it was faq'd in the index and refaq'd in the post-release faq)


Sadly, I don't think there is anything else, which kinda sucks because it'd be great if we could have our old dakka bunkers of old, but as is, there's no reason to put guys like lootas or tankbustas into battlewagons when you're gimping yourself from using your shooting stratagems.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/21 17:46:26


Post by: Clang


Ah, Mobile Fortress refers to Moving only, not moving in general :( Thanks.

So then yeah, a Bonebreaka ain't going to be shooting unless it has no reason to advance, which you'd hope isn't often, coz it wants to spend the whole game ramming stuff if possible.

I'm still going to model a killkannon turret though, even if it will be left off for most games...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/21 18:43:47


Post by: PiñaColada


 Clang wrote:
Ah, Mobile Fortress refers to Moving only, not moving in general :( Thanks.

So then yeah, a Bonebreaka ain't going to be shooting unless it has no reason to advance, which you'd hope isn't often, coz it wants to spend the whole game ramming stuff if possible.

I'm still going to model a killkannon turret though, even if it will be left off for most games...

Go for it! It's an easy magnetisation. I'd reccomend you magnetise the deff rolla as well (just put magnets instead of the plastic nubs that fit into the actual vehicle) so you have all your options. Like that, you can run it as a gunwagon as well should you wish. And with running a risk of sounding like a broken record, magnetise the actual guns going into the turret as well because come next FAQ/CA or 9th maybe the zzap gun is amazing. It's a lot easier to do all that now than breaking it apart and fixing it later.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/21 19:53:51


Post by: leopard


Bonebreaka here gains four big shoota, simply because they are reasonably cheap assault weapons so don't slow the thing down, while giving it some ranged option on the way in, with enough shots to get past the rubbish BS, maybe.

other weapons either slow it down or have a rate of fire too low to be worth the cost.

can see the advantage to having no guns as well




Automatically Appended Next Post:
PiñaColada wrote:
 Clang wrote:
Ah, Mobile Fortress refers to Moving only, not moving in general :( Thanks.

So then yeah, a Bonebreaka ain't going to be shooting unless it has no reason to advance, which you'd hope isn't often, coz it wants to spend the whole game ramming stuff if possible.

I'm still going to model a killkannon turret though, even if it will be left off for most games...

Go for it! It's an easy magnetisation. I'd reccomend you magnetise the deff rolla as well (just put magnets instead of the plastic nubs that fit into the actual vehicle) so you have all your options. Like that, you can run it as a gunwagon as well should you wish. And with running a risk of sounding like a broken record, magnetise the actual guns going into the turret as well because come next FAQ/CA or 9th maybe the zzap gun is amazing. It's a lot easier to do all that now than breaking it apart and fixing it later.


mine doesn't have a single magnet...

the rolla just clips into place, the ram will as well if you cut a bit off the mounting pins, the other turrets etc will just sit in place, option to stick a bit of ballast on the base of them.

also found if you don't glue the lid on the main turret the other guns can be slotted in and out easily enough as well


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/21 23:18:35


Post by: Pandabeer


 Weazel wrote:
 Clang wrote:
I'm deciding how to model a Bonebreaka, and would like to know how peeps have been equipping theirs. As a base, it's a BW with a special deff rolla (the Bonebreaka Ram) and an 'ard case - what else is worthwhile for this vehicle, which presumably spends games in the enemy's face, ramming stuff as much as possible?

- a Killkannon looks tempting, as the short range doesn't matter and there's no troop-carrying penalty. No other big gun instead?
- big shootas would usually be wasted, or are they useful as screen shredders?

Anything from the BW Equipment list?
- Grot Rigger does look useful, unless the Bonebreaka is expected to die in the first few turns?
- the Claw or Ball do buff melee combat, but might be unnecessary?
- Is the Lobba worth the points cost for the fun ability to shoot over obstacles and occasionally hit something?

Any other thoughts? I can probably magnetize most 'sometimes useful' options.


Big Shootas don't even need magnets really. But they're not completely useless, Evil Sunz can fire at full BS even after advancing. That said, if you want to keep them at the most competitive, don't take any guns at all. Killkannon is the best big gun but it's heavy so you probably don't get to fire it. It's "only" 15 points so killing a marine is going to pay it back but I don't think it's a competitive choice. The turret does make the Bonebreaka look absolutely bitchin' so I might take it at least sometimes. Incidentally I'm also building my Bonebreakas at the moment.


Killkannon might be worth considering as a fallback deterrent if you're going to tellyport the Breaka in (so it gets to fire at least once).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/21 23:25:32


Post by: ajax_xaja


Building out my half of the Team Tournament for LVO. Do you think taking two units of Tankbustas is too "all in" if my partner goes for chaff-clear via Khorne daemons?

I'm hoping that the Bad Moons reroll 1's will help with accuracy against non-Vehicle armor, especially when combined with more dakka and showin' off.

Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Bad Moons

+ HQ +

Kaptin Badrukk

Weirdboy : 3. Da Jump, Da Best Armour Teef Can Buy, Scorched Gitbonez, Warlord

+ Troops +

Boyz
. Boss Nob: Power Klaw, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Gretchin: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin: 10x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Tankbustas
. Boss Nob: Rokkit Launcha
. 8x Tankbusta: 8x Rokkit Launcha

Tankbustas
. Boss Nob: Rokkit Launcha
. 9x Tankbusta: 9x Rokkit Launcha

+ Fast Attack +

Shokkjump Dragstas
. Shokkjump Dragstas: Rokkit Launcha

+ Dedicated Transport +

Trukk: Big Shoota

Trukk: Big Shoota

++ Total: [49 PL, 1000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/22 00:04:55


Post by: r_squared


Had an experimental game tonight trying out things I'd not used so far, namely lootas and battlewagons.
I was up against a strong Tau gunline, including a riptide, and we played a new mission from chapter approved where there are 5 prepositioned objectives and every turn one randomly becomes 2 vps if you're on it.

Orks won convincingly 20 - 7

I played an evil sun battalion with 2 mobs of 20 Boyz in battlewagons with dethrollas, one mob of 30 for da jump, a footslogging Warboss and a kff big mek on bike. I paired it up with a spearhead of Bad moons containing a warphead, 2 units of 12 grots, 10 lootas and a couple of smasha gunz.

For 1500 points it's not terribly optimised, but I wanted to try out the loota bomb, particularly to see how resilient it is, and it surprised me somewhat. Turn one I da jumped the lootas just shy of half way up the board, and ran some grots just ahead of them in a building. Even with more dakka, and showing off, their shooting was a bit disappointing, but it definitely had potential.

What really caught my eye was when it came to the tau shooting phase it took his entire army's shooting to kill these 10 lootas and their grot screens. I deliberately ran 2 units of 12 grots, so that I would minimise the effects of moral, but afterwards we reckoned that a unit of 25 lootas would be truly fearsome. Even with a modest grot screen, I would have had over 15 left for the next round, by which time he'd have more problems than just lootas. This experience demonstrated that whilst cp heavy and dependent, they could be very survivable, and still kick out a bunch of dakka. They'd definitely benefit from having a more dedicated list though.

The Evil sunz were absolutely stunning in assault, dropping in from teleporta and da jump, combined with the battlewagons unloading and charging basically meant I mashed up his gunline barring the riptide, whilst continuing to score objectives. Sadly we only made it to turn 4, but by then the ork lead was insurmountable, and only by tabling me could he have won.

We both had a fun game, tau are still filth when it comes to gun line shooting, but finally it looks like orks have the tools to get in and wreck face.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/22 04:30:50


Post by: JimOnMars


Seems like he should have ignored the 10 lootas completely.

I'm surprised he wasn't more worried about the boyz and battlewagons.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/22 08:45:43


Post by: PiñaColada


 ajax_xaja wrote:
Building out my half of the Team Tournament for LVO. Do you think taking two units of Tankbustas is too "all in" if my partner goes for chaff-clear via Khorne daemons?

I'm hoping that the Bad Moons reroll 1's will help with accuracy against non-Vehicle armor, especially when combined with more dakka and showin' off.

Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Bad Moons

+ HQ +

Kaptin Badrukk

Weirdboy : 3. Da Jump, Da Best Armour Teef Can Buy, Scorched Gitbonez, Warlord

+ Troops +

Boyz
. Boss Nob: Power Klaw, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Gretchin: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin: 10x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Tankbustas
. Boss Nob: Rokkit Launcha
. 8x Tankbusta: 8x Rokkit Launcha

Tankbustas
. Boss Nob: Rokkit Launcha
. 9x Tankbusta: 9x Rokkit Launcha

+ Fast Attack +

Shokkjump Dragstas
. Shokkjump Dragstas: Rokkit Launcha

+ Dedicated Transport +

Trukk: Big Shoota

Trukk: Big Shoota

++ Total: [49 PL, 1000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

Gotta be honest, I'd be worried putting that many points into trukkbustas at 1k (though if you know exactly what your ally brings I guess it's at 2k). I guess one of the risks you're running is if you're facing an IK is that they'll pop both trukks quite easily and then the tankbustas are really exposed. Though that can be somewhat mitigated by keeping all your grots near the trukks at the start of the game so if you don't get first turn and they blow up you trukk you can jump the tankbustas out behind the grots and use the shield strat. I'm just wondering if you can switch out one of the trukkbusta squads for some mek gunz. I'd argue that tankbustas might be slight overkill in their statline against some smaller, light vehicles such as Dark Eldar, at the same time you need anti-tank against superheavies..

Switching out the smaller trukkbusta squad nets you 217 points. (9x17 & 64) For that you could get 3 Smasha guns, 2 traktor kannons and fill up your remaining tankbustas squad with two more tankbustas. The smasha guns are pretty good at pulling double-duty if you're facing an army that doesn't have as many vehicles since they still have a fair amount of shots and can target something a bit more elite. Traktor kannons are handy to have just to negate some negative to hit modifiers without having to disembark your tankbustas and then spend CPs on them. Mek guns are also pretty handy to just take up space in your backfield, so holding objectives and deepstrike denying, not to mention the fact that they're individual units so they're much more resistant to superheavies. Might be something to consider..

I'm not sure how capable Khorne daemons are of a T1 charge but nothing in your army really screams long range. I'm guessing you'll be da jumping the boyz T1. What's the reasoning behind badrukk?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, how are people playing the Megatrakk Scrapjets now? Are you playing with one big shoota firing at BS4 and the other at BS5 or both at BS4?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/22 10:13:28


Post by: r_squared


 JimOnMars wrote:
Seems like he should have ignored the 10 lootas completely.

I'm surprised he wasn't more worried about the boyz and battlewagons.


He wanted to shut down pretty much my only shooting threat, and because of the nature of the game turn one basically meant me hunkering on my objectives to score points. The lootas were definitely his best target then.
Turn 2 I advanced up the board, but in such a way he only had one target, an Ard top battlewagon protected by kff which weathered the limited storm of fire very well. Turn 3 was me holding 3 objectives and challenging the 2 in his deployment zone. As my advance had forced him to edge back off he only had screens of drones and some firewarriors holding these and with two battlewagons of boys, teleporting meganobz and da jumping boyz he basically melted everything bar his riptide and suits. I played totally to the objectives and aimed at wiping out his numerous bodies to contest objectives.

I'd built such a lead that with only one turn left, he'd have had to try and kill my remaining units, which probably would have only been a handful by then. He could have done it, but I would have made him work for it.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/989097-Just%20before%20turn%202%20shennigans.html

The photo shows the end of movement on turn 3, just about to charge the first battlewagon into the centre mass loaded with Boyz, the meganobz charging into wipe out the drones and steal the objective, the mob of 30 da jumped Boyz at the top of the screen multi charging drones and firewarriors to knock them off their objective, the zhardsnark model was proxying as my big mek on bike with kff who's scoring the middle objective, and the tall building centre right is where my lootas and grots used to be. My warphead, and smasha guns are scoring my backfield objective.
By the end of this turn there were no more firewarriors by the riptide but my entire boy squad was blown away, and there were no more drones and only 4 meganobz on the other objective. They withstood an absolute storm of pulse rifle fire, much to my OPs frustration. The first battle wagon was blown up, and all the Boyz inside were whittled down, but still functioning ready to charge turn 4 backed up with the Boyz and battle wagon following behind.
I had no command points left by this stage.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/22 14:31:18


Post by: Vineheart01


 ajax_xaja wrote:
Building out my half of the Team Tournament for LVO. Do you think taking two units of Tankbustas is too "all in" if my partner goes for chaff-clear via Khorne daemons?

I'm hoping that the Bad Moons reroll 1's will help with accuracy against non-Vehicle armor, especially when combined with more dakka and showin' off.

Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Bad Moons

+ HQ +

Kaptin Badrukk

Weirdboy : 3. Da Jump, Da Best Armour Teef Can Buy, Scorched Gitbonez, Warlord

+ Troops +

Boyz
. Boss Nob: Power Klaw, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Gretchin: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin: 10x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Tankbustas
. Boss Nob: Rokkit Launcha
. 8x Tankbusta: 8x Rokkit Launcha

Tankbustas
. Boss Nob: Rokkit Launcha
. 9x Tankbusta: 9x Rokkit Launcha

+ Fast Attack +

Shokkjump Dragstas
. Shokkjump Dragstas: Rokkit Launcha

+ Dedicated Transport +

Trukk: Big Shoota

Trukk: Big Shoota

++ Total: [49 PL, 1000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)


curious, why badrukk? I mean he basically has bad moonz trait slapped on by default even though hes a freeboota not a badmoon but hes not all that great imo.

Also i can attest the badmoonz reroll 1 can be amazing. I can count on my hands the amount of times in 6 games ive had a shooting attack whiff (not talking saves being good talking my ability to HIT being bad), in fact ive even had a few extreme cases where i somehow had more KMB hits than i even had shots...lol...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/22 22:05:31


Post by: Castozor


 Nym wrote:
 IronSlug wrote:
Bonus question : As I read it, you roll for the SAG strength before firing the weapon, so before choosing a target, am I right ?

The answer is in the rulebook, page 5.

1) Choose Unit to Shoot With
2) Choose Targets
3) Choose Ranged Weapon

So you pick your target first, then you roll for Strength.

I assume this also means you have to declare more dakka on lootas before rolling for the number of hits? I had this come up in a game yesterday, and played it like this, but obviously I'd prefer it if we were able to roll for numbers of hits first.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/23 08:14:09


Post by: Blackie


 Vineheart01 wrote:
 ajax_xaja wrote:
Building out my half of the Team Tournament for LVO. Do you think taking two units of Tankbustas is too "all in" if my partner goes for chaff-clear via Khorne daemons?

I'm hoping that the Bad Moons reroll 1's will help with accuracy against non-Vehicle armor, especially when combined with more dakka and showin' off.

Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Bad Moons

+ HQ +

Kaptin Badrukk

Weirdboy : 3. Da Jump, Da Best Armour Teef Can Buy, Scorched Gitbonez, Warlord

+ Troops +

Boyz
. Boss Nob: Power Klaw, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Gretchin: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin: 10x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Tankbustas
. Boss Nob: Rokkit Launcha
. 8x Tankbusta: 8x Rokkit Launcha

Tankbustas
. Boss Nob: Rokkit Launcha
. 9x Tankbusta: 9x Rokkit Launcha

+ Fast Attack +

Shokkjump Dragstas
. Shokkjump Dragstas: Rokkit Launcha

+ Dedicated Transport +

Trukk: Big Shoota

Trukk: Big Shoota

++ Total: [49 PL, 1000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)


curious, why badrukk? I mean he basically has bad moonz trait slapped on by default even though hes a freeboota not a badmoon but hes not all that great imo.

Also i can attest the badmoonz reroll 1 can be amazing. I can count on my hands the amount of times in 6 games ive had a shooting attack whiff (not talking saves being good talking my ability to HIT being bad), in fact ive even had a few extreme cases where i somehow had more KMB hits than i even had shots...lol...


He's not great, true, but certainly better than the SAG big mek. 3 S8 AP-3 D3 shots at BS4+ with natural re-rolling 1s and another re-roll thanks to the ammo runt makes him a fair alternative to 3x smasha gunz, since they basically have the same cost, but he's also useful to unlock detachments, he cannot be targetable unless he's the closest dude but he also got an invuln, a high save for orks standards, and an ammo runt to sacrifice.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/24 08:24:45


Post by: Singleton Mosby


 Nym wrote:
 IronSlug wrote:
Bonus question : As I read it, you roll for the SAG strength before firing the weapon, so before choosing a target, am I right ?

The answer is in the rulebook, page 5.

1) Choose Unit to Shoot With
2) Choose Targets
3) Choose Ranged Weapon

So you pick your target first, then you roll for Strength.



That is a major setback indeed and makes it a risk to shoot at something with a high toughness. But consider the Souped-up SAG. At only 80 Points + 1 CP it is ideal to kill MEQ and the likes. 2D6 shots and AP -5 can deal some considerable death. Yesterday my souped-up SAG killed a unit of devastators, razorback, priest and squad of marines in only three turns. Then my enemy was out of models.

Sure you've to consider your targets, but getting a +1 on shooting for freebootaz and the ability to shoot twice for 2 CP is still very nice.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/25 09:10:45


Post by: Thornz


 Singleton Mosby wrote:
 Nym wrote:
 IronSlug wrote:
Bonus question : As I read it, you roll for the SAG strength before firing the weapon, so before choosing a target, am I right ?

The answer is in the rulebook, page 5.

1) Choose Unit to Shoot With
2) Choose Targets
3) Choose Ranged Weapon

So you pick your target first, then you roll for Strength.


My Soupedup Shokka ONE SHOT A BANEBLADE on turn 1 last game cementing it in my enemies eyes as the most feared thing in my Dread Waagh (11 shots at Strength 11 with a CP re-roll for the strength) it was on my Deffskulls Warlord with the +1 to would vehicles EL Trait


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/25 15:37:08


Post by: crzylgs


I can only imagine the contrasting look in your opponents and your own eyes when you roll 11 * strength 11 SAG shots


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/25 21:36:15


Post by: Ilgoth


Are mechanized ork lists viable at the moment? Considering to start a collection, so new to orks.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/26 00:48:44


Post by: Sluggaloo


Yes sir, three deffrola battlewagons rushing up the board with nobz or Goff skarboyz with a mekgun backline or tankbusta in trukks is not a bad list. Whatever you do with Orks, you need to all in. So either take all vehicles, or take full infantry. Orks durability relies entirely on overwhelming saturation.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/26 06:54:53


Post by: Greenson Tide


 flaming tadpole wrote:
True haha. do forgeworld models gain klan kulturs? I know the titans won't, but if the little squiggy's did that could make them decent.


Forgeworld models do get clan kultures. Titans/Lords of War do as well but you need to either put them into a Supreme Command detachment or one with two more Lords of War.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/26 21:13:01


Post by: Ilgoth


 Sluggaloo wrote:
Yes sir, three deffrola battlewagons rushing up the board with nobz or Goff skarboyz with a mekgun backline or tankbusta in trukks is not a bad list. Whatever you do with Orks, you need to all in. So either take all vehicles, or take full infantry. Orks durability relies entirely on overwhelming saturation.


Thanks for the help. Definately gonna roll some armor! Any pointers on FW stuff? Love halftrakk model...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/27 00:29:43


Post by: Elfric


I think the Grot Mega tank is pretty good in 8th. I normally go all in with big shootas or rokkits. The mega dread can also be amazing. Most people seem to like running it with kff, however give it the mega charga and with evil sunz you are virtually guaranteed a first turn charge. You would probably want it with dual rippa klaws if you the first turn charge. You could also give it the Goff keyword and hope for exploding 6's in cc.

I also absolutely love the battle wagon with supa kannon but 195 points is pretty expensive compared to other wagon variants


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/27 00:42:05


Post by: Greenson Tide


Currently, aside from Zardsnark, FW stuff isn't THAT great for Orks. While the Gargantuan Squiggoth is a beast in melee, the only really viable way to get him to have clan kultures is through a Supreme Command detachment and even with that there is a good chance he will get taken out before he gets across the field (I still love them though). A problem that both the regular and gargantuan Squiggoths have is that there is no way to heal/repair them.

Aside from Zardsnark and the Squiggoths, every FW model is overpriced.
- The Kill Tanks were AMAZING before the first Chapter Approved but then had a massive price hike.
- While the Big Trakk is SO tempting with it's Supa-Skorcha, know that it will rarely survive long enough to do anything when your opponent hears that you have a 24" strength 6 flamethrower with 2 AP and 4d3 shots.
- Grot Tanks and Megatanks look AWESOME... but they are WAY too unpredictable, can't benefit from kultures/stratagems, and are overpriced.
- For Nob Warbikers you are better off just modifying Biker Boyz due to the FW prices.
- The Chinork CAN have some uses but it's toughness and wounds makes it a major gamble to count on as a transport.
- Currently there isn't a reason to use Ork Mek Boss Buzzgob because you can pretty much do the exact same thing on a Big Mek at a lower price and a Big Mek can take better weapons and relics. That said, should GW ever decide to get rid of our Index options, he is MUCH cheaper than a Big Mek in Mega Armor when it comes to KFFs.
- The Mega/Meka Dread were decent initially but now that Gorkanauts and Morkanauts have had their prices reduced and their wepons buffed their FW brethren aren't as appealing.
- I really am not sure about the Half Trakk. It is the only FW model that I haven't really done any play testing with.
- And for some reason even though both the Battlewagon and Stompa had their prices drop in our Codex, the Battlewagon w Supa Kannon, Battlewagon w Lifta Droppa, and Kustom Stompas did not benefit from the base cost reduction when this last Chapter Approved came out.

Hope this helps


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/27 06:07:11


Post by: Quackzo


Most of the FW options were viable prior to the Codex but post Codex the FW units are relatively overpriced, with Gargantuan Squiggoth being the exception. Disappointed CA 2018 didn't address this as we'll have to wait another year for a chance of them being balanced.

Greenson Tide wrote:

- Currently there isn't a reason to use Ork Mek Boss Buzzgob because you can pretty much do the exact same thing on a Big Mek at a lower price and a Big Mek can take better weapons and relics. That said, should GW ever decide to get rid of our Index options, he is MUCH cheaper than a Big Mek in Mega Armor when it comes to KFFs.


Gonna be nit picky here but RAW Buzzgob does NOT have access to a KFF. He has the ability which requires him to be equipped with the KFF but does not have one equipped and cannot choose to equip a KFF. Check with your TO prior to running him. This has not been addressed in a FAQ either.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/27 10:20:56


Post by: Ilgoth


Thanks for all the help guys! Will get the books in mail soon enough, so can start to vision my collection.

Noticed there is no analysis on trukks (talking about OP post), thought they were basic transports of orks. Are they bad in this edition?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/27 10:42:09


Post by: PiñaColada


Ilgoth wrote:
Thanks for all the help guys! Will get the books in mail soon enough, so can start to vision my collection.

Noticed there is no analysis on trukks (talking about OP post), thought they were basic transports of orks. Are they bad in this edition?

Trukks are pretty good for their points IMO, the problem might be what you want to put in them. Just 12 boyz can feel like a waste, even if I do it from time to time. Nobz are good (10+2 ammo runts) because even if they blow up the trukk you can pop the "Loot It" stratagem. Tankbustas are a good choice as well, even if you can't put strats on them then, they'll gain a lot of survivability.
Stuffing characters in them (plus small groups of other units, kommandos are a good cheap choice for 5 men) can work as well.

You need to think if the cheap cost suits you better than almost double the capacity (battlewagon) or same capacity, without shooting but also a monster in CC (bonebreaka)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/27 11:46:27


Post by: Blackie


Flash gitz are also a good option for trukks, they can even benefit from their kultur whille embarked if they belong to a freeboota detachment.

I'd avoid trukk boyz unless it's maybe a unit of skarboyz or deathskulls boyz with rokkit, kombi rokkit and a mek with KMB embarked.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/27 14:54:54


Post by: Glitcha


 Blackie wrote:
Flash gitz are also a good option for trukks, they can even benefit from their kultur whille embarked if they belong to a freeboota detachment.

I'd avoid trukk boyz unless it's maybe a unit of skarboyz or deathskulls boyz with rokkit, kombi rokkit and a mek with KMB embarked.


I personally always take trukk boyz squads. I usually use the trukks transport troops, eat overwatch or go grab objectives.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/27 17:36:09


Post by: Ilgoth


Thanks again for good input.

Trukk capacity is indeed bit of a problem, personally lean towards 10 nobz & 2 runts. CC loadout on nobz? Shooty orks is my style, even though I know they suck at it. Just enjoy the ork dakka... Dont have to aim if you fire at everything just in case. ^^

Chinork is great model, tad expensive though. Those + half trakks would look so great together. Orks have such a great look overall!

Deathskulls seem my fave kultur. Any gaming tips for that?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/27 18:18:13


Post by: Greenson Tide


The Deathskull kulture really benefits small or solo units best. Anytime I run them I usually go heavy on the HQ units like Big Meks with Shokk Attack Guns. It also works great with some of the new vehicles like the Megatrakk Scrapjet and Shokkjump Dragsta because of all the rerolls.

I find that the Deathskulls are not really the most beneficial clan to run solo and that it usually helps to pair them up with a clan that works better with larger size units like Bad Moons or Evil Sunz.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/27 18:57:22


Post by: SemperMortis


 Blackie wrote:
Flash gitz are also a good option for trukks, they can even benefit from their kultur whille embarked if they belong to a freeboota detachment.

I'd avoid trukk boyz unless it's maybe a unit of skarboyz or deathskulls boyz with rokkit, kombi rokkit and a mek with KMB embarked.


GW: Nobody is buying our trukk boy kit, they say trukkz are too expensive and 12 boyz aren't strong enough on their own to justify the cost....what should we do?

Moron 1: remove options for the trukk!

Moron 2: Reduce the Points cost of the Trukk by about 12-15pts but than increase the cost of the boyz by 12pts to even it out.

Actual Player who knows what he is talking about: What if we Price the trukk around 40-50pts where it would be competitive and leave boyz at 6ppm so that players will be inclined to take them.

GW: Your fired!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/27 19:15:22


Post by: PiñaColada


SemperMortis wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
Flash gitz are also a good option for trukks, they can even benefit from their kultur whille embarked if they belong to a freeboota detachment.

I'd avoid trukk boyz unless it's maybe a unit of skarboyz or deathskulls boyz with rokkit, kombi rokkit and a mek with KMB embarked.


GW: Nobody is buying our trukk boy kit, they say trukkz are too expensive and 12 boyz aren't strong enough on their own to justify the cost....what should we do?

Moron 1: remove options for the trukk!

Moron 2: Reduce the Points cost of the Trukk by about 12-15pts but than increase the cost of the boyz by 12pts to even it out.

Actual Player who knows what he is talking about: What if we Price the trukk around 40-50pts where it would be competitive and leave boyz at 6ppm so that players will be inclined to take them.

GW: Your fired!

Well I personally would rather have buffs for trukkboyz than cost decreases. Make the boarding planks do something (embark after moving the vehicle/embark 6" away from vehicle and can do it over other units/etc) or let them fire overwatch when the trukk is charged & give them +1 BS for being embarked.

Sure, cutting 15 points on the trukk and another 12 on the boyz would certainly help, but making boyz useful in any capacity other than 30 is sorely needed.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/27 19:24:32


Post by: SemperMortis


PiñaColada wrote:

Well I personally would rather have buffs for trukkboyz than cost decreases. Make the boarding planks do something (embark after moving the vehicle/embark 6" away from vehicle and can do it over other units/etc) or let them fire overwatch when the trukk is charged & give them +1 BS for being embarked.

Sure, cutting 15 points on the trukk and another 12 on the boyz would certainly help, but making boyz useful in any capacity other than 30 is sorely needed.


I agree, I would have paid 140-150pts for a unit of trukk boyz if they actually did something worth their points. As it stands your paying more for trukk boyz than a Tactical Space Marine squad, except you die twice as fast and you have zero ranged firepower worth mentioning.

But from a GW company perspective, it would have made more sense to make trukkz dirt cheap and give trukk boyz a bonus, like +1 attack on the turn in which they disembark, team that up with say a 40-45pt trukk and even 84pts for 12 boyz they would have a pretty damned good punch for their points cost and would serve an actual purpose over just regular boyz in 30 blobs deepstriking/jumping. 130pts, I could see myself taking as many as 6 of those boyz missiles and it not being overly cheesy/OP.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/27 19:29:45


Post by: PiñaColada


Sure, points changes are more likely because of how rare it is with datasheet changes. Not that I believe GW will fix trukkboyz through points either. It's just sad considering how fun that unit combo could be

Also, I'm tired. In my last post I meant disembark, not embark


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/28 15:07:58


Post by: MannyMcCoconut


Deathskull trukks are also a bit more durable.

The 6++ combined with Ramshackle give about a 31% chance (assuming my math is right) that a wound will either be ignored or reduced to 1 DMG.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/28 16:28:13


Post by: Grimskul


 MannyMcCoconut wrote:
Deathskull trukks are also a bit more durable.

The 6++ combined with Ramshackle give about a 31% chance (assuming my math is right) that a wound will either be ignored or reduced to 1 DMG.


Also, assuming you're using index options, they can take a rokkit launcha which is a lot more effective when you have the deffskull re-rollz factored in. I used a list with 3 trukks with rokkit launchas, carrying a KMB Mek and 11 Shoota Boyz with a Rokkit, and they were basically all their own mini-tankbusta squad. The best part is having either the KMB Mek or the Trukk pop open a transport so you can have the shootas inside fire at the occupants.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/28 17:01:42


Post by: Rismonite


 Grimskul wrote:
 MannyMcCoconut wrote:
Deathskull trukks are also a bit more durable.

The 6++ combined with Ramshackle give about a 31% chance (assuming my math is right) that a wound will either be ignored or reduced to 1 DMG.


Also, assuming you're using index options, they can take a rokkit launcha which is a lot more effective when you have the deffskull re-rollz factored in. I used a list with 3 trukks with rokkit launchas, carrying a KMB Mek and 11 Shoota Boyz with a Rokkit, and they were basically all their own mini-tankbusta squad. The best part is having either the KMB Mek or the Trukk pop open a transport so you can have the shootas inside fire at the occupants.


This. I have been using minimum squads of boyz for fodder because I don't have enough grotz, but in the Deffskullz squads I add a Rokkit Launcha git. Strangely enough turn one in the last game I played I managed to chip away 6 wounds on an expensive tank because of the rerolls. It feels like a purpose for a troop tax unit.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/28 17:20:03


Post by: MannyMcCoconut


Agreed. The Deathskull re-rolls are pretty nice.

Below is a table of AVG failed armor saves for a single rokkit shot that includes a re-roll to hit and to wound and the chance for DDD.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/29 08:35:33


Post by: tneva82


PiñaColada wrote:

Well I personally would rather have buffs for trukkboyz than cost decreases. Make the boarding planks do something (embark after moving the vehicle/embark 6" away from vehicle and can do it over other units/etc) or let them fire overwatch when the trukk is charged & give them +1 BS for being embarked.

Sure, cutting 15 points on the trukk and another 12 on the boyz would certainly help, but making boyz useful in any capacity other than 30 is sorely needed.


Units already can deplyo over other units. Funny if enemy tries to surround vehicle, blows it in h2h and your guys disembark behind them


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/29 10:20:46


Post by: PiñaColada


tneva82 wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:

Well I personally would rather have buffs for trukkboyz than cost decreases. Make the boarding planks do something (embark after moving the vehicle/embark 6" away from vehicle and can do it over other units/etc) or let them fire overwatch when the trukk is charged & give them +1 BS for being embarked.

Sure, cutting 15 points on the trukk and another 12 on the boyz would certainly help, but making boyz useful in any capacity other than 30 is sorely needed.


Units already can deplyo over other units. Funny if enemy tries to surround vehicle, blows it in h2h and your guys disembark behind them

You're right, I realised that after I wrote the post. I just rarely get to use it since 3" isn't a lot of space so if the unit that tied you down isn't a really small squad chances are (in my experience) that there's not really enough space to do it. If boarding planks actually made that 3" into 6" then you'd see it all the time I reckon.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/29 12:13:02


Post by: tneva82


Yeah orks have it harder but more common with eldar and marines. Ninja jumping dreadnought out of transport is particularly funny!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/29 13:03:08


Post by: Jidmah


PiñaColada wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
Flash gitz are also a good option for trukks, they can even benefit from their kultur whille embarked if they belong to a freeboota detachment.

I'd avoid trukk boyz unless it's maybe a unit of skarboyz or deathskulls boyz with rokkit, kombi rokkit and a mek with KMB embarked.


GW: Nobody is buying our trukk boy kit, they say trukkz are too expensive and 12 boyz aren't strong enough on their own to justify the cost....what should we do?

Moron 1: remove options for the trukk!

Moron 2: Reduce the Points cost of the Trukk by about 12-15pts but than increase the cost of the boyz by 12pts to even it out.

Actual Player who knows what he is talking about: What if we Price the trukk around 40-50pts where it would be competitive and leave boyz at 6ppm so that players will be inclined to take them.

GW: Your fired!

Well I personally would rather have buffs for trukkboyz than cost decreases. Make the boarding planks do something (embark after moving the vehicle/embark 6" away from vehicle and can do it over other units/etc) or let them fire overwatch when the trukk is charged & give them +1 BS for being embarked.

Sure, cutting 15 points on the trukk and another 12 on the boyz would certainly help, but making boyz useful in any capacity other than 30 is sorely needed.


My suggested fix was to make trukk boyz their own datasheet and give them a new ability that replaces green tide - giving them +1 attack for the next fight phase after disembarking from a vehicle.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/29 13:23:26


Post by: crzylgs


 Jidmah wrote:

My suggested fix was to make trukk boyz their own datasheet and give them a new ability that replaces green tide - giving them +1 attack for the next fight phase after disembarking from a vehicle.


That's a cool idea. I'd absolutely love disembark + charge after moving, but that'd probably be too strong especially if the Trukk was also in range to charge and eat over-watch. If in this situation the Trukk wasn't allowed to also charge, then it wouldn't be quite as bad but still probably too much in the current landscape of various Orky deepstrike shenanigans combinations.



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/29 13:39:44


Post by: Blackie


In 3rd edition codex trukk boyz had their own datasheet as fast attacks IIRC. I'd make them troop though.

Could it work as a stratagem also? For 1 CP boyz in trukks only. The trukk is allowed to move, boyz disembark and charge. Maybe 2 CP if they also get that +1A in the same turn.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/29 14:40:43


Post by: PiñaColada


I mean, you sort of got it as a stratagem in the Blitz Brigade. The "hold on, boyz!" strat is pretty similar to that, even if it's 2CP and requires a battlewagon.

A new datasheet could've worked for trukkboyz but really it could've just been an ability on the trukk datasheet. It's all a bit of a moot point now though, since any change (save perhaps for a points drop) is extremely unlikely to happen IMO.

Edit: Apparently you cannot charge after using "Hold on, boyz!" so they're not really that similar. The only use I really see for that now is a cheeky way of pressing up tankbustas in tankbusta bomb range..


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/29 15:56:23


Post by: Jidmah


crzylgs wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:

My suggested fix was to make trukk boyz their own datasheet and give them a new ability that replaces green tide - giving them +1 attack for the next fight phase after disembarking from a vehicle.


That's a cool idea. I'd absolutely love disembark + charge after moving, but that'd probably be too strong especially if the Trukk was also in range to charge and eat over-watch. If in this situation the Trukk wasn't allowed to also charge, then it wouldn't be quite as bad but still probably too much in the current landscape of various Orky deepstrike shenanigans combinations.



It would make them just as strong as regular boyz except you need to buy a trukk. That's nowhere near "too strong".


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/30 01:51:27


Post by: Rismonite


Some wacky moments from my last game;

Turn 1;
-I lose my Wazbomm Blasta jet, my Shokkjump Dragsta, and 29 Grotz turn one
-Bad Moon Lootas and a Deffskull SAGmek shoot a Land Raider and five Hellblasters off the table
-My Evil Sunz Warboss with Relicklaw and Fists of Gork assaults passed a scout screen into a Land Raider, dies in melee, then with Orkz is Never Beaten he leaves the Land Raider with two wounds (Also, forgot to reroll my wounds and attack squig).

Turn 2;
-I lose my shokk attack gun and several Ork Boyz to shooting from the nearly dead Land Raider and supporting cast.
-With no remaining Grot screen I teleport my Lootas across the board and dump shots into three Space Marine targets, except I rolled one shot and did poorly.
-Bonebreaka Tellyports in and assaults a now 3 wound Land Raider, mostly wiffs and leaves it with like a wound.
-My Deffkilla Wartrike assaults BobbyG. Then BobbyG kills my HQ in return, then my Wartrike swings more time, leaving BobbyG with 2 wounds.

Turn 3;
-My opponent Falls Back with his Land Raider then pummels my Bonebreaka with a quad lascannon pred. The Bonebreaka explodes, destroying the remaining Land Raider.
-On my turn, my Lootas split fire into three weak targets, rolls one shot, doesn't do much again.
-My index mek on Bike dies in assault with RubbertGuilliman

Turn 4;
-Threatening assaults with my remaining Ork boyz, my opponent start castling into the corner my Lootas are already kinda in.
-My Dakkajet dies, never really shooting much since most of my opponents targets were boxes.
-BobbyG declares an assault on my Lootas and dies in the overwatch. But gets back up at the end of the turn.
-On my turn I shoot three targets with my Lootas again, killing Guilliman and I think a Quad Laz pred.

At this point it looks like my remaining boyz will be too numerous for the remaining space marines to get a victory on the Scouring. Game is called. This game was unqiue in that I went second and somehow pulled a victory seemingly because his alphastrike put him in position to be assaulted turn one. My Lootas also shot very luckily on turn one. Land Raiders throw an impressive amount of dice. I really like the Deffskull rerolls I think I could run a mono deffskull list and be happy.

With as much that can go right on turn one, I'm starting to believe tellyporting anything really isn't neccassary and does more to hinder you by forcing you to make a spot for orkz to deepstrike. It's almost better to have more shooting or more melee area of influence turn one.

EDIT; Showin' off and shooting with Lootas, do you roll shots both times or once? The past two games my opponent and I have decided we roll once.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/30 10:58:01


Post by: tneva82


For lootas once. Usually would be each time you shoot(so say sag with the new strategem from special det) but loota weapon has specific exception that overrides default rules

And for added fun normally random roll aplies for entire phase but attacks it's different. So loota exception makes their attacks follow normal procedure!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/30 13:38:09


Post by: metallum


Hello!
I need help please too much info lately..
Could You guys clear things for me..?

"Dakkajet Quite a solid little chaff-clearer/general infantry killer. Loves to be a shooty Kultur, with Freebootas boosting it up to hitting on 3s"................how on 3'???

"Lucky Gitz: 6++ invuln, all infantry gains objective secured, and you may reroll 1 dice per unit per phase to hit, wound, AND damage. Provides excellent rules for MSU ork lists with a balanced mix of melee and range particularly when the unit has one potent weapon - for example a Deff Dread with a single Kustom Mega Blasta who can make good use of all 6 potential rerolls if he gets a good turn."...............6 rerolls? Its only one dice per unit per all hits...

I have 50 boys to assemble ...shoota or chop or mix?

Thank You for explanation


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/30 14:05:26


Post by: hortsmann


metallum wrote:
Hello!
I need help please too much info lately..
Could You guys clear things for me..?

"Dakkajet Quite a solid little chaff-clearer/general infantry killer. Loves to be a shooty Kultur, with Freebootas boosting it up to hitting on 3s"................how on 3'???

"Lucky Gitz: 6++ invuln, all infantry gains objective secured, and you may reroll 1 dice per unit per phase to hit, wound, AND damage. Provides excellent rules for MSU ork lists with a balanced mix of melee and range particularly when the unit has one potent weapon - for example a Deff Dread with a single Kustom Mega Blasta who can make good use of all 6 potential rerolls if he gets a good turn."...............6 rerolls? Its only one dice per unit per all hits...

I have 50 boys to assemble ...shoota or chop or mix?

Thank You for explanation


Dakkajet: Has +1 to hit if all his guns shoot the same target. Add to this the +1 from freeboota and you hit on 3s

Deff Dreads: you can reroll a to-hit, to-wound and damage both in the shooting phase and in the fight phase. So 6 rerolls.

Usually boyz are better with choppas (depending on what you want to use them for). That being said, it's hard to get 30 of them to hit in melee, so for big units, mixing 10 or so shootas in isn't a bad idea.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/30 14:17:13


Post by: metallum


Great!!!
Thanks!..
Now for Nobz 30 to assemble..
I read that big choppa and choppas are a go to load out.
Or mix them? and make them shooty?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/30 14:52:35


Post by: tneva82


I like couple big chopppa and choppa and more double choppas.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/30 17:07:04


Post by: PiñaColada


I have no idea if they'll listen at all but I imagine we should as a community try to drive through some of the point changes we should get considering Chapter Approved is now live.
I mean, I think Orks are essentially fine but there's room for improvement without being greedy.

What do people think about these changes? I'm trying to be realistic. Also, yes the mekboy shop is still terrible at that cost but I can't suggest 0 points can I?

Spoiler:
Points units:
Burna boyz - 10
Nobz on warbikes - 33
Tankbustas - 7
Painboy - 45
Boomdakka snazzwagon - 83
Kustom boosta-blasta - 90
Rukkatrukk squigbuggies - 100
Shokkjump dragstas - 100
Warbikers - 21
Gunwagon - 120
Killa kanz - 35
Trukk - 48
Mekboy workshop - 40
Stompa - 600

Points ranged weapons:
Big shoota - 2
Twin big shoota - 4
Rokkit launcha - 10
Kombi-weapon with rokkit launcha - 10
Twin rokkit launcha - 20
Kopta rokkits - 20
Grotzooka - 5
Lobba - 10
Kannon - 10
Zzap gun - 10
Stikkbomb chukka - 2
Bubblechukka - 20
Kustom mega-blasta - 7
Kustom mega-slugga - 5
Shokk Attack Gun - 20
Tellyport blasta - 8
Skorcha - 14
Kombi-weapon with skorcha - 15

Points melee weapons:
Power klaw - 10
Killsaw - 12 (Pair - 18)

Points other wargear:
Cybork body - 1

General notes:
The point drops on units, or sometimes lack thereof, is assumed to happen alongside wargear point drops.
Tankbustas go up 2 to keep them at 17 points because of lower costed rokkit launchas.

New unit abilities:
Burna boyz reroll wounds against infantry
Boomdakka snazzwagon gets a 1 use ramshackle save, basically you can choose to try and activate it any time you suffer a multi-damage wound but if you manage to roll a 6 the ability is lost after that due to the grot being dead.
Trukks get assault ramps - can deploy 6” away from trukk instead of 3”


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/30 23:25:09


Post by: JimOnMars


PiñaColada wrote:
I have no idea if they'll listen at all but I imagine we should as a community try to drive through some of the point changes we should get considering Chapter Approved is now live.
I mean, I think Orks are essentially fine but there's room for improvement without being greedy.

What do people think about these changes? I'm trying to be realistic. Also, yes the mekboy shop is still terrible at that cost but I can't suggest 0 points can I?

Spoiler:
Points units:
Burna boyz - 10
Nobz on warbikes - 33
Tankbustas - 7
Painboy - 45
Boomdakka snazzwagon - 83
Kustom boosta-blasta - 90
Rukkatrukk squigbuggies - 100
Shokkjump dragstas - 100
Warbikers - 21
Gunwagon - 120
Killa kanz - 35
Trukk - 48
Mekboy workshop - 40
Stompa - 600

Points ranged weapons:
Big shoota - 2
Twin big shoota - 4
Rokkit launcha - 10
Kombi-weapon with rokkit launcha - 10
Twin rokkit launcha - 20
Kopta rokkits - 20
Grotzooka - 5
Lobba - 10
Kannon - 10
Zzap gun - 10
Stikkbomb chukka - 2
Bubblechukka - 20
Kustom mega-blasta - 7
Kustom mega-slugga - 5
Shokk Attack Gun - 20
Tellyport blasta - 8
Skorcha - 14
Kombi-weapon with skorcha - 15

Points melee weapons:
Power klaw - 10
Killsaw - 12 (Pair - 18)

Points other wargear:
Cybork body - 1

General notes:
The point drops on units, or sometimes lack thereof, is assumed to happen alongside wargear point drops.
Tankbustas go up 2 to keep them at 17 points because of lower costed rokkit launchas.

New unit abilities:
Burna boyz reroll wounds against infantry
Boomdakka snazzwagon gets a 1 use ramshackle save, basically you can choose to try and activate it any time you suffer a multi-damage wound but if you manage to roll a 6 the ability is lost after that due to the grot being dead.
Trukks get assault ramps - can deploy 6” away from trukk instead of 3”
GW has never considered the community when assining points. Ever. Why would they start now?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/31 00:50:10


Post by: flaming tadpole


Played a couple games with my friend over the weekend. First game he wanted to try his grey knight list since the ca point drops. He brought 2 gm dreadknights, Draigo, ancient dude, couple captains, 2 squads of pallies, and 2 strike squads in rhinos. I brought the fairly standard loota star with boyz mix. Game was pretty much over by turn 2. Lootas and smashas just destroyed his dreadknights and the boyz were just killing and/or tarpitting everything else so we just called it at the end of 3. Unfortunately, Grey knights still really suck.

Next game I wanted to try out a bunch of stuff so we did a semi-competitive match. He brought Custodes with a mix of bikes, termies, normal dudes, Valoris, banner dude that gives everything -1 to hit around him, and a Telemon heavy dreadnought that fires 5 heavy bolter shots that are -2 and 20 autocannon shots at 2+ re-rolling 1's, T8, 15 wounds, and a 2+/4++/6+++ (that thing scares me). I brought the usual hq's plus a big mek with da souped-up skokka, 90 grots, 5 flash gitz and 5 kommados in a trukk, 10 nobz in a trukk, 8 meganobz in a teleporta, and 3 deff dreads in a teleporta.

Turn 1: I moved everything up and shot my gitz and sag who both did mostly nothing because of the -1 bubble, but I think I did a couple wounds to one of his bikes and something else. His turn he blew up my nob trukk so I popped my loot it stratagem. His bike squad charged my gitz trukk and did 5 wounds at -3 which I preceded to roll 5 6++ saves for for I guess when you take the deathskulls trait you get their luck as well, lol.

Turn 2: I brought in my manz and dreads from reserve. My bikerboss beelined it to the telemon that had a small enough hole for him to charge through, and other weirdboy cast fist of gork on him. My gitz and sag combined killed 2 normal custodes in front of the telemon making the hole a little bigger for my boss to charge. Onto assaults my boss luckily manages to weather overwatch with 1 wound remaining and makes his charge on the telemon. 2 of the 3 dreads make their charge into another squad and the manz unfortunately don't make it after my friend used a stratagem that basically cuts your charge distance in half. Nobs also charged into his bike squad. Dreads combined to kill 1 dude, nobs killed a bike and wounded another, and my boss left his telemon with 1 wound remaining from attacking twice after dieing. On his turn he destroys all my dreads and a couple manz.

Rest of the game: My flash gitz are able to stay stationary in the middle of the field the rest of the game and start whittling down his army. The manz get rekt after killing 1-2 dudes and the nobz kill another couple dudes. The last two turns consisted of him trying to kill his way through 90 grots while getting smited and shot by my gitz and sag. The game ends with him having basically Valoris and a banner dude left.

My takeaways (from a competitive standpoint):

Deff dreads: not good. Of course they can be good and even great depending on the match-up, but the reason why I wanted to take them as well as the nobs and manz is because I wanted to see how they'd perform in a bad matchup so I could test their competitive use going forward and sadly, dreads just don't make it. Like many have said it's incredibly difficult to get all 3 into combat meaning there's little reason to take more than 2 and at that point you start questioning if they're even worth taking in a teleporta. They also did almost diddly squat in combat before getting completely obliterated in return.

Manz: Decent. They didn't really do a whole lot offensively, but soaked up a good amount of firepower. As soon as they got into combat they got completely rekt, but that was expected since at that point I had multi-charged Valoris, his banner dude, and a lone bike (they did kill the biker at least). Overall I would definitely take them over deff dreads, but in games against armies that can hang with them I'm not sure I can justify spending that many points on a situational unit.

Nobz: Good. If the flash gitz hadn't balled out with their shooting the last couple turns these guys would of been mvp's. That 3+ save just makes them obnoxious and even more so once a few of them die off and you can fit them in cover super easy. Had they played basically any other army they would have gotten a lot more value, but even in this matchup they were able to make back most of their points on top of being a pest. Also they're a lot of fun to play.

Flash Gitz: who dem bois. Granted I came into the game with little expectation, but for only 5 dudes they were quite impressive and easily did the most damage out of any unit in my army. Are they competitive? not really. Their price basically makes sure of that, but if you can protect them and put enough pressure on your opponent that they don't become a priority target then your opponent will definitely regret it.





No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/31 05:39:29


Post by: Clang


Tankbustas - have ork players changed how they equip or size their Tankbusta squads? From reading the new codex, I get the impression:
- 5 is still too small a squad - 10 is still better
- put a Boss Nob in charge (costs nothing, minor stats improvement)
- rokkit pistols and tankhamma still aren't worth it
- squig bombs are still an amusing use of spare points, despite the increased cost
- Bad Moons are the most useful clan? Although Deathskulls and Freebooterz aren't terrible, they seem less reliable.

Modelling-wise, the GW set gives a Nob, 2 squigs, 1 rokkit pistols, 1 tankhamma and 2 boyz, which seems a poor squad. How are players expanding their squads? Buying up rokkit bits from the Boyz and Loota sprues? Converting, e.g. looting imperial missile launchers?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/31 06:29:41


Post by: Rismonite


 Clang wrote:
Tankbustas - have ork players changed how they equip or size their Tankbusta squads? From reading the new codex, I get the impression:
- 5 is still too small a squad - 10 is still better
- put a Boss Nob in charge (costs nothing, minor stats improvement)
- rokkit pistols and tankhamma still aren't worth it
- squig bombs are still an amusing use of spare points, despite the increased cost
- Bad Moons are the most useful clan? Although Deathskulls and Freebooterz aren't terrible, they seem less reliable.

Modelling-wise, the GW set gives a Nob, 2 squigs, 1 rokkit pistols, 1 tankhamma and 2 boyz, which seems a poor squad. How are players expanding their squads? Buying up rokkit bits from the Boyz and Loota sprues? Converting, e.g. looting imperial missile launchers?


Any shooting asset should be Bad Moonz for utilizing Showin' Off. Once you already have a shooting asset using Showin Off, you then want a Deff Skull unit for Wreckerz.

Showin Off almost works too well on Lootas to use it on Tankbustas, unless you really just don't want to bring Lootas. Tankbustas should probably be Deffskullz, so they can use Wreckerz.

Beyond all else, you just want like 5 Tankbustas so you can maybe use the grenade stratagem if you accidentally get close enough. Deffskull Squigbomb rerolls are kinda nice.

I have one box of Tankbustas, the other 25 Tankbustas I have are made from Rokkit bitz in the Boy and Loota box, as you say.

I'm having soo much fun with my Lootas right now that I have not been fielding Tankbustas. Really, this edition has brought KMB weapons out in the Deffskull army, the free reroll works nice without burdening my CP for Wreckerz. IF I get around to making a Freeboota army I am sure my Tankbustas will find their way into a Trukk or Battlewagon to assist Flash Gitz from inside 24" ranges. Not using Stratagems from vehicles has kinda pigeonholed Tankbustas and Flash Gitz into the Freeboota Kulturs. In the Deffskull Kultures I would want all of the Damage D6 weapons, your Shokkjump Dragstas, Wazbomb Blastajet, SAG Mek, Kustom Mega Blastas/Sluggas/Kannonz all these weapons just seem more interesting then trying to make Tankbustas work outside of a transport just to get Wreckerz.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/31 06:37:15


Post by: BaconCatBug


 Clang wrote:
Tankbustas - have ork players changed how they equip or size their Tankbusta squads? From reading the new codex, I get the impression:
- 5 is still too small a squad - 10 is still better
- put a Boss Nob in charge (costs nothing, minor stats improvement)
- rokkit pistols and tankhamma still aren't worth it
- squig bombs are still an amusing use of spare points, despite the increased cost
- Bad Moons are the most useful clan? Although Deathskulls and Freebooterz aren't terrible, they seem less reliable.

Modelling-wise, the GW set gives a Nob, 2 squigs, 1 rokkit pistols, 1 tankhamma and 2 boyz, which seems a poor squad. How are players expanding their squads? Buying up rokkit bits from the Boyz and Loota sprues? Converting, e.g. looting imperial missile launchers?
For tankbustas you go big or you go home. It's a heavy CP investment but the Wombo-combo will delete anything that isn't an Ion Bulwark+Rotate Ion Shields (aka a 3++) knight off the field. The reason you want Bad Moonz is due to the stratagem, the kultur is actually redundant on Tankbustas.

You take a full unit of Bad Moonz Tankbustas + Bomb Squigs, Tellyport them in (2cp), use More Dakka! (2cp) so you're exploding on 5+ with re-rolls to hit, then use Showin' Off (2cp) to fire the 15 Tankbustas (since the squigs are dead) again. Remember the squigs benefit from DakkaDakkaDakka and the re-roll to hits too. Make sure to bring Dakkajets or Da Jumping Shoota Boyz to clear out the Loyal 32/Loyal 12 first.

I guess if you know you're going to face an Ion Bulwark+Rotate Ion Shields Knight then maybe Evil Sunz Tankbustas with Hammers might be the way to go but at that point you're losing off the bat to begin with.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/31 07:58:52


Post by: Blackie


I'm not a fan of the biggest squad of tankbustas to be honest, I prefer 10+2 bomb squigs in a trukk. Usually I pick 2 of those squads. Disembark one and showing off if they're bad moons, with gretchins in front of them, otherwise they should stay in the vehicle as long as the trukk survives. Deathskulls ones are also good in 2x5 in a trukk because you get more re-rolls and potentially the D6 re-roll on both bomb squigs.

If you play a greentide a big blob that arrives by tellyporta and shielded by gretchins is definitely the way to go with bustas but if you play mechanized lists, like I mostly do, they do their work in trukks even with no CP invested on them.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/31 10:28:16


Post by: PiñaColada


JimOnMars wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
I have no idea if they'll listen at all but I imagine we should as a community try to drive through some of the point changes we should get considering Chapter Approved is now live.
I mean, I think Orks are essentially fine but there's room for improvement without being greedy.

What do people think about these changes? I'm trying to be realistic. Also, yes the mekboy shop is still terrible at that cost but I can't suggest 0 points can I?

Spoiler:
Points units:
Burna boyz - 10
Nobz on warbikes - 33
Tankbustas - 7
Painboy - 45
Boomdakka snazzwagon - 83
Kustom boosta-blasta - 90
Rukkatrukk squigbuggies - 100
Shokkjump dragstas - 100
Warbikers - 21
Gunwagon - 120
Killa kanz - 35
Trukk - 48
Mekboy workshop - 40
Stompa - 600

Points ranged weapons:
Big shoota - 2
Twin big shoota - 4
Rokkit launcha - 10
Kombi-weapon with rokkit launcha - 10
Twin rokkit launcha - 20
Kopta rokkits - 20
Grotzooka - 5
Lobba - 10
Kannon - 10
Zzap gun - 10
Stikkbomb chukka - 2
Bubblechukka - 20
Kustom mega-blasta - 7
Kustom mega-slugga - 5
Shokk Attack Gun - 20
Tellyport blasta - 8
Skorcha - 14
Kombi-weapon with skorcha - 15

Points melee weapons:
Power klaw - 10
Killsaw - 12 (Pair - 18)

Points other wargear:
Cybork body - 1

General notes:
The point drops on units, or sometimes lack thereof, is assumed to happen alongside wargear point drops.
Tankbustas go up 2 to keep them at 17 points because of lower costed rokkit launchas.

New unit abilities:
Burna boyz reroll wounds against infantry
Boomdakka snazzwagon gets a 1 use ramshackle save, basically you can choose to try and activate it any time you suffer a multi-damage wound but if you manage to roll a 6 the ability is lost after that due to the grot being dead.
Trukks get assault ramps - can deploy 6” away from trukk instead of 3”
GW has never considered the community when assining points. Ever. Why would they start now?

With all due respect, but how do you know? Point changes are made, from index to codex and from codex to FAQ/CA. In a lot of those cases they're on units that the community has brought up as being poorly costed (and a lot of the times they're changed for seemingly little reason to be fair). How do you know they're not listening? Just because they don't go out and say "blablabla made a solid argument about the cost of centurions" doesn't mean they didn't take it into consideration.

Blackie wrote:I'm not a fan of the biggest squad of tankbustas to be honest, I prefer 10+2 bomb squigs in a trukk. Usually I pick 2 of those squads. Disembark one and showing off if they're bad moons, with gretchins in front of them, otherwise they should stay in the vehicle as long as the trukk survives. Deathskulls ones are also good in 2x5 in a trukk because you get more re-rolls and potentially the D6 re-roll on both bomb squigs.

If you play a greentide a big blob that arrives by tellyporta and shielded by gretchins is definitely the way to go with bustas but if you play mechanized lists, like I mostly do, they do their work in trukks even with no CP invested on them.

I also prefer the less CP demanding 10 tankbustas+2squigs/12 tankbustas in a trukk. My lists are fairly mechanised like yours so there's a fair bit of target saturation going on. Usually I can place the trukk in a way that if I don't get T1 and my opponent blows the trukk up I can still jump the tankbustas out of LoS so they at least get one turn of shooting.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/31 13:11:04


Post by: Thrund


PiñaColada wrote:

I also prefer the less CP demanding 10 tankbustas+2squigs/12 tankbustas in a trukk. My lists are fairly mechanised like yours so there's a fair bit of target saturation going on. Usually I can place the trukk in a way that if I don't get T1 and my opponent blows the trukk up I can still jump the tankbustas out of LoS so they at least get one turn of shooting.


Any real disadvantage to making that 2 units of 6 in the same trukk? I'm running them as Deathskulls so that gives two units that can claim objectives, and two sets of rerolls, even if they end up always shooting at the same target.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/31 13:35:08


Post by: PiñaColada


Thrund wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:

I also prefer the less CP demanding 10 tankbustas+2squigs/12 tankbustas in a trukk. My lists are fairly mechanised like yours so there's a fair bit of target saturation going on. Usually I can place the trukk in a way that if I don't get T1 and my opponent blows the trukk up I can still jump the tankbustas out of LoS so they at least get one turn of shooting.


Any real disadvantage to making that 2 units of 6 in the same trukk? I'm running them as Deathskulls so that gives two units that can claim objectives, and two sets of rerolls, even if they end up always shooting at the same target.

Not really I'd say. There are some considerations though.

Elite slots - Do you need to fill another one? Then consider use two units.
If you're running low on slots then just use one unit. This will rarely happen though.

If you're often playing missions with kill points it might matter if you choose one or two units.

The real thing to consider in my opinion is whether you're willing to throw buffs on the unit if they survive after the trukk is destroyed. My unit of 10 (+2 squigs) often manage to survive with all the actual tankbustas left, meaning I'm far more willing to throw buffs on them than if they were 2 groups of 6.

All of this is fairly minor stuff though, so go for whatever you feel like will help you out the most. Meaning if you need to fill elite slots for a brigade or get more obsec then try that build out.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/31 13:55:27


Post by: tneva82


Thrund wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:

I also prefer the less CP demanding 10 tankbustas+2squigs/12 tankbustas in a trukk. My lists are fairly mechanised like yours so there's a fair bit of target saturation going on. Usually I can place the trukk in a way that if I don't get T1 and my opponent blows the trukk up I can still jump the tankbustas out of LoS so they at least get one turn of shooting.


Any real disadvantage to making that 2 units of 6 in the same trukk? I'm running them as Deathskulls so that gives two units that can claim objectives, and two sets of rerolls, even if they end up always shooting at the same target.


Sooner or later they are out of truck, likely after t1 of enemy, and then 2 units is worse than 1


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/31 16:47:52


Post by: Blackie


Thrund wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:

I also prefer the less CP demanding 10 tankbustas+2squigs/12 tankbustas in a trukk. My lists are fairly mechanised like yours so there's a fair bit of target saturation going on. Usually I can place the trukk in a way that if I don't get T1 and my opponent blows the trukk up I can still jump the tankbustas out of LoS so they at least get one turn of shooting.


Any real disadvantage to making that 2 units of 6 in the same trukk? I'm running them as Deathskulls so that gives two units that can claim objectives, and two sets of rerolls, even if they end up always shooting at the same target.


No, quite the opposite. I think you should definitely go with 2x5-6 tankbustas in the same vehicle. I tried it the 5-6 times I've played the deffskulls brigade. The Wreckers stratagem is actually a trap, a unit of 10-12 tankbustas must disembark to use it and for 2 CPs you should get something like +1-2 successful wound rolls, which should end with +3 wounds after the saves. Sometimes even 0 saves as those 1-2 rolls can be saved with decent odds, rokkits are only AP-2. I prefer using 2 free re-rolls while sitting on the transport instead.

The wreckers stratagem is nice on nobz or meganobz instead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:
Thrund wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:

I also prefer the less CP demanding 10 tankbustas+2squigs/12 tankbustas in a trukk. My lists are fairly mechanised like yours so there's a fair bit of target saturation going on. Usually I can place the trukk in a way that if I don't get T1 and my opponent blows the trukk up I can still jump the tankbustas out of LoS so they at least get one turn of shooting.


Any real disadvantage to making that 2 units of 6 in the same trukk? I'm running them as Deathskulls so that gives two units that can claim objectives, and two sets of rerolls, even if they end up always shooting at the same target.


Sooner or later they are out of truck, likely after t1 of enemy, and then 2 units is worse than 1


If you have 3 BWs-Bonebreakas their trukk can survive 3+ turns. If the opponent fires his anti tank towards the rokkit trukks sparing a big vehicle or my mek gunz I'd be super happy with that. Deathskulls vehicles are also more resilient than standard ones with their free 6++, and there's also ramshackle.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2018/12/31 19:39:56


Post by: flandarz


I like the Extra Stikkbombs Stratagem for my TBs. Put em in a Trukk with a couple Squiggs. Get in close and when the enemy pops the Trukk, you throw down some Stikkbombs. Go from 10 shots to 20 (on average). Even use Shoot Again (if you go Bad Moonz) to get in another 10. That's a lot of hurt.

Course, I do think MANz might be better AT, with Klawz. Higher S, better AP, and better to-hit, and still plenty of attacks. But might be subjective.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/01 01:58:53


Post by: flaming tadpole


Played another game today this time trying out a Goff green tide. Told my opponent to bring the custodes biker spam with the loyal 32 cause I wanted to see how'd they do against one of the worst matchups. Things were looking pretty bleak after the first two turns, but managed to pull it around the last 3 turns and the game ended in a tie with him having just his bike captain with 1 wound remaining (he tanked 2 smasha's at the end so I almost tabled him). Green tide is still pretty solid I think. Also a Goff bikerboss with the relic klaw is absolutely bonkers. Did 8 damage 4 wounds in one round of combat before even attacking twice and that was with him hitting at -1 because of the bike captains relic thing, lol.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/01 02:22:24


Post by: flandarz


I like to run my Biker Bosses with Super Cybork and Bad Moonz trait. Guy tanked 4 Fight Phases of attacks before going down.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/02 21:13:32


Post by: Castozor


So perhaps an easy question for you guys but I'm finding myself in a bind. What anti-armor units should I be getting? I had a good run but my main opponent beat me twice in a row now using helldrakes and lots of armour. The flaw of only having SAGs for anti-armor is keeping my list down but I'm not sure what to get.
Tankbustas seem nice but pretty expensive points wise, and I probably need to buy a trukk for them too, scrapjet seems a nice alternative but not sure how good they are.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/02 21:18:48


Post by: hortsmann


A killa claw and brutal but kunnin warboss will destroy pretty much anything armored.
At range, smasha gunz and tankbustas are the main options.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/02 21:24:07


Post by: tneva82


hortsmann wrote:
A killa claw and brutal but kunnin warboss will destroy pretty much anything armored.
At range, smasha gunz and tankbustas are the main options.


Or flier. Or anything opponent screens.

At range add in lootas that are also more flexible than bustas. 15 of them with more dakka and showing off will bust drake with 75% of average output(well actually tad less than that) so you can afford some bad dice rolling as well. By the time warboss does 1 lootas have done 2-3.

edit: Actually remembered drake doesn't have -1 to hit so you can even not use the more dakka and you STILL have more wounds than average result. If you are willing to spend CP every time you roll 1 for # of shots you indeed average 16 wounds even without more dakka. Albeit in practice you average less in long run as overkills from shooting 3 per round doesn't carry over to compensate for the 1/9 times you roll 1 round per loota but when you roll 3 you can kill 1(average is 10.45 wounds) and even if not likely fairly crippled so shoot the 2nd round to another and use mek guns to finish the 2 likely near dead turkey then so....yeah rolling that 3 is nice and you do have 44% chance of getting that. 55% if you roll 1 and 2(which incidentally doesn't change average # of shots but does adjust volatily of your shots)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/02 21:43:53


Post by: Rismonite


 Castozor wrote:
So perhaps an easy question for you guys but I'm finding myself in a bind. What anti-armor units should I be getting? I had a good run but my main opponent beat me twice in a row now using helldrakes and lots of armour. The flaw of only having SAGs for anti-armor is keeping my list down but I'm not sure what to get.
Tankbustas seem nice but pretty expensive points wise, and I probably need to buy a trukk for them too, scrapjet seems a nice alternative but not sure how good they are.


I take it since your are running SAG mekz then you must also be Deffskullz right now right? I would hands down recommend the Shokkjump Dragsta and a Wazbomm Blastajet with KFF. They are sweet, the Deffskull rerollz are reallyreally sweet.

If you are Bad Moonz, and with SAG Mekz I hope you aren't, then your anti-armor is Lootas.

If you are Freebootas then you should start including Mek Gunz for Anti Armor.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/02 21:49:06


Post by: tneva82


Or you mix&match clans. You want 2 battallions as a minimum and 3 isn't going overboard so take 3 clans and take best units for each trait that way.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/02 22:04:09


Post by: Castozor


I'm still trying to find my clan, played mostly Deff Skulls but played evil sunz last few games. SAG performance dropped quite a bit but it was nice for my footslogging boys. I guess I need more lootas then, I already use a squad of 8-10 (limited by models atm), but seems to me that unless I get first turn the helldrakes will still maul them.
Edit: I should probably mention mixing clans is a no-no for me. My friends frown upon it, considering it the same as souping. Since they don't soup their armies neither will I.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/02 22:11:41


Post by: tneva82


 Castozor wrote:
I'm still trying to find my clan, played mostly Deff Skulls but played evil sunz last few games. SAG performance dropped quite a bit but it was nice for my footslogging boys. I guess I need more lootas then, I already use a squad of 8-10 (limited by models atm), but seems to me that unless I get first turn the helldrakes will still maul them.
Edit: I should probably mention mixing clans is a no-no for me. My friends frown upon it, considering it the same as souping. Since they don't soup their armies neither will I.


Drakes will NOT maul them if you don\t want them. Grot screen. Best 1 drake would do is the flamer grilling 3.5 hits that turn into about 2 wounds which equals to 30% chance of killing one loota.

Good luck clearing lootas with helldrake!

With 10 you average about 10 wounds. Mind you when you do get that 3 shots you average out 14 wounds with shoot twice so you will at least destroy 1. Depending on what other AT you have you might want to split those to 2 drakes and finish with rest of guns.

BTW with grot screens and fliers be careful. Here unit of 30 can be very good as you can cover every direction with one unit. With 10 strong units say you have unit at front and back...well back unit won't protect from front and vice versa. He can move drakes to rear and shoot with some other unit the rear. If you have 30 you can surround 360 degree and remove casualties at more conveniently. 2x30 and you can do double layer even.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/02 22:31:24


Post by: Castozor


Thanks for the solid advice, I only have 20 grots atm, which is one of my problems. I did try to screen but it just wasn't enough. Biggest issue was I had nothing else to throw at his dreads afterwards which let to my initial question.
Guess I might just need more grots rather than dedicated anti-tank.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/03 01:55:06


Post by: Rismonite


 Castozor wrote:
Thanks for the solid advice, I only have 20 grots atm, which is one of my problems. I did try to screen but it just wasn't enough. Biggest issue was I had nothing else to throw at his dreads afterwards which let to my initial question.
Guess I might just need more grots rather than dedicated anti-tank.


If you are forced into a Mono list I recommend Deffskullz, Freebootaz, or Evil Sunz.

Once you have 30 Grotz, you may find that you still need like 60 Grotz to cover your Lootas, in the interim, while you wait to buy more models, perhaps consider a Painboy or KFF nearby to make them play larger. If you think you have opponents that might consider firing at the Lootas, the KFF becomes nice.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/03 04:55:12


Post by: Waaaghpower


Stompas are still useless post-codex, right? It seems like without Klan Tactics they still aren't worth the cost, and it's not worth spamming three HQs just to get clan tactics.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/03 05:08:49


Post by: BaconCatBug


Waaaghpower wrote:
Stompas are still useless post-codex, right? It seems like without Klan Tactics they still aren't worth the cost, and it's not worth spamming three HQs just to get clan tactics.
Yes, Stompas are still worse than useless.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/03 05:13:19


Post by: hortsmann


tneva82 wrote:

BTW with grot screens and fliers be careful. Here unit of 30 can be very good as you can cover every direction with one unit. With 10 strong units say you have unit at front and back...well back unit won't protect from front and vice versa. He can move drakes to rear and shoot with some other unit the rear. If you have 30 you can surround 360 degree and remove casualties at more conveniently. 2x30 and you can do double layer even.


If you are refering to the "grot shields" stratagem, it targets the unit you protect, not the grot unit, so you can use grots in the back, in the front, from any number of different units.

Lootas are pretty bad if they are not in a bad moon detachment. For other clans, mek gunz work very well in a freeboota detachment as it activates the +1 for other units. Big Mekz and Mekz with KMB are pretty awesome as Deathskullz. Otherwise a Killa Klaw Warboss will work pretty much anywhere. Weirdboyz can also help with smite.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/03 05:31:04


Post by: JimOnMars


 Castozor wrote:
So perhaps an easy question for you guys but I'm finding myself in a bind. What anti-armor units should I be getting? I had a good run but my main opponent beat me twice in a row now using helldrakes and lots of armour. The flaw of only having SAGs for anti-armor is keeping my list down but I'm not sure what to get.
Tankbustas seem nice but pretty expensive points wise, and I probably need to buy a trukk for them too, scrapjet seems a nice alternative but not sure how good they are.
There is a reason Mek Guns cost $50. Get them. Many of them.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/03 07:50:39


Post by: Blackie


hortsmann wrote:


Lootas are pretty bad if they are not in a bad moon detachment.


Lootas can be quite good also with the freeboota keyword. 15 lootas hitting on 4s aren't bad for sure.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/03 07:51:38


Post by: Weazel


Deffkilla Wartrike. How to use it effectively? It's mainly going to escort my Bonebreakas to let them advance + charge, but outside of the buff it seems really underwhelming. The dakka is lame (or rather BS5+ is lame) and the offensive output is severely lacking unless Brutal, but Kunnin'. Although I'm not sure if that trait makes a huge difference overall. Might get more mileage out of Speed Freek to avoid getting tarpitted by chaff or whatever.

Have you had any success and what's your recipe?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/03 07:58:18


Post by: tneva82


 Rismonite wrote:

Once you have 30 Grotz, you may find that you still need like 60 Grotz to cover your Lootas, in the interim, while you wait to buy more models, perhaps consider a Painboy or KFF nearby to make them play larger. If you think you have opponents that might consider firing at the Lootas, the KFF becomes nice.


KFF or painboy aren't much help to grots though. They die mostly to the grot screen here which slays. No KFF or painboy roll allowed


Automatically Appended Next Post:
hortsmann wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

BTW with grot screens and fliers be careful. Here unit of 30 can be very good as you can cover every direction with one unit. With 10 strong units say you have unit at front and back...well back unit won't protect from front and vice versa. He can move drakes to rear and shoot with some other unit the rear. If you have 30 you can surround 360 degree and remove casualties at more conveniently. 2x30 and you can do double layer even.


If you are refering to the "grot shields" stratagem, it targets the unit you protect, not the grot unit, so you can use grots in the back, in the front, from any number of different units.

Lootas are pretty bad if they are not in a bad moon detachment. For other clans, mek gunz work very well in a freeboota detachment as it activates the +1 for other units. Big Mekz and Mekz with KMB are pretty awesome as Deathskullz. Otherwise a Killa Klaw Warboss will work pretty much anywhere. Weirdboyz can also help with smite.


Grot unit need to be CLOSER to enemy than the orks though.


E

L

G

E=enemy, L=lootas, G=grots. You won't get grot screen from this. If you have G between E and L then enemy can fly drake behind L. If you try to be clever and put G both where it is above and between E and L he can fly drake behind G and use E to shoot the rear grots away and again no G between drake and lootas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Weazel wrote:
Deffkilla Wartrike. How to use it effectively? It's mainly going to escort my Bonebreakas to let them advance + charge, but outside of the buff it seems really underwhelming. The dakka is lame (or rather BS5+ is lame) and the offensive output is severely lacking unless Brutal, but Kunnin'. Although I'm not sure if that trait makes a huge difference overall. Might get more mileage out of Speed Freek to avoid getting tarpitted by chaff or whatever.

Have you had any success and what's your recipe?


For me damage output has never been issue. Survival is. But for me he's chaff clearer and pressure giver. Enemy needs to pay attention where he keeps his support characters as his 30" threat range means he can attack from quite a few places


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Waaaghpower wrote:
Stompas are still useless post-codex, right? It seems like without Klan Tactics they still aren't worth the cost, and it's not worth spamming three HQs just to get clan tactics.


Give him kulture and he is STILL horrible pile of junk. Might be playable at 600 pts but even that's dubious(and suffers still from lack of kulture. It's not even price of 3 HQ as orks often take 6 HQ anyway but 1 CP vs 5)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/03 10:25:42


Post by: Blackie


 Weazel wrote:
Deffkilla Wartrike. How to use it effectively? It's mainly going to escort my Bonebreakas to let them advance + charge, but outside of the buff it seems really underwhelming. The dakka is lame (or rather BS5+ is lame) and the offensive output is severely lacking unless Brutal, but Kunnin'. Although I'm not sure if that trait makes a huge difference overall. Might get more mileage out of Speed Freek to avoid getting tarpitted by chaff or whatever.

Have you had any success and what's your recipe?


IMHO it only worths its points in a 3x deff rolla vehicles list that desperately wants to assault in turn 1. Outside that it's completely useless, the biker boss is cheaper and outperforms it by a lot.

Even in full mechanized lists it doesn't seem that mandatory, just chose the evil sunz kultur instead. In fact I never use the wartrike anymore, only tried in a few games, and after that I never missed it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:

Give him kulture and he is STILL horrible pile of junk. Might be playable at 600 pts but even that's dubious(and suffers still from lack of kulture. It's not even price of 3 HQ as orks often take 6 HQ anyway but 1 CP vs 5)


Isn't 600ish points the cost of the most overpowered imperial knight? Unfortunately the stompa would be overpriced even at 600 pts without a built-in invuln. Crappy BS and the main weapon that can be out of ammo very soon makes our big walker way inferior to proper superheavies' shooting.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/03 10:54:20


Post by: Weazel


 Blackie wrote:
 Weazel wrote:
Deffkilla Wartrike. How to use it effectively? It's mainly going to escort my Bonebreakas to let them advance + charge, but outside of the buff it seems really underwhelming. The dakka is lame (or rather BS5+ is lame) and the offensive output is severely lacking unless Brutal, but Kunnin'. Although I'm not sure if that trait makes a huge difference overall. Might get more mileage out of Speed Freek to avoid getting tarpitted by chaff or whatever.

Have you had any success and what's your recipe?


IMHO it only worths its points in a 3x deff rolla vehicles list that desperately wants to assault in turn 1. Outside that it's completely useless, the biker boss is cheaper and outperforms it by a lot.

Even in full mechanized lists it doesn't seem that mandatory, just chose the evil sunz kultur instead. In fact I never use the wartrike anymore, only tried in a few games, and after that I never missed it.


Okay, that's a bummer. I don't have a Biker boss nor do I really want to invest in Index only units at this point.. I'll have to think about it. The thing is I really like the wartrike model and I've painted it nicely so I kinda want to make it work. I do have two Bonebreakers and I do want to charge turn 1 so there's that. I'll just keep him for the buff and the huge threat radius. Might be able to catch a character off-guard sometimes if my opponent isn't careful.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/03 11:01:12


Post by: tneva82


Here index is banned so no biker boss for me anyway.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/03 11:02:45


Post by: PiñaColada


I think people are being a bit harsh on the deffkilla to be fair. Is it as good as a bikerboss? No, but that guy can be buffed up all the way to stupid good. I'm basically playing without index units (sometimes I sneak in burnas on kommandos or whatever) but if you're trying to shy away from Index I feel like he's a great investment.

Semi-reliable T1 charges for batllewagons and bikes (and deffkoptas) is a nifty little ability. He's stupid quick T1 and his shooting is pretty good at clearing chaff. He's a great character, he's just outshone by an index option. Buff him up with fists of gork and brutal but kunning and he's legit scary in CC. Using the speed freeks trait makes MSU bike units really annoying since you can just slingshot them from enemy chaff to their tanks against unaware opponents. The problem with the wartrike is, as tneva stated, durability. Hard hitting stuff will delete him without too much trouble so the tricks he's bringing might just be in play for a turn or two


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/03 11:47:15


Post by: Blackie


 Weazel wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
 Weazel wrote:
Deffkilla Wartrike. How to use it effectively? It's mainly going to escort my Bonebreakas to let them advance + charge, but outside of the buff it seems really underwhelming. The dakka is lame (or rather BS5+ is lame) and the offensive output is severely lacking unless Brutal, but Kunnin'. Although I'm not sure if that trait makes a huge difference overall. Might get more mileage out of Speed Freek to avoid getting tarpitted by chaff or whatever.

Have you had any success and what's your recipe?


IMHO it only worths its points in a 3x deff rolla vehicles list that desperately wants to assault in turn 1. Outside that it's completely useless, the biker boss is cheaper and outperforms it by a lot.

Even in full mechanized lists it doesn't seem that mandatory, just chose the evil sunz kultur instead. In fact I never use the wartrike anymore, only tried in a few games, and after that I never missed it.


Okay, that's a bummer. I don't have a Biker boss nor do I really want to invest in Index only units at this point.. I'll have to think about it. The thing is I really like the wartrike model and I've painted it nicely so I kinda want to make it work. I do have two Bonebreakers and I do want to charge turn 1 so there's that. I'll just keep him for the buff and the huge threat radius. Might be able to catch a character off-guard sometimes if my opponent isn't careful.


Well the wartrike isn't useless in the appropriate setting, its stats aren't terrible, but just ouperformed by another HQ that shares a similar profile. If you play the bonebreakas the wartrike is definitely a good choice even if there's another HQ available that is (way) more effective.

I agree the model is awesome and I don't think there will be any problem to play it as a biker boss with power klaw if you like to do that, it's basically an ork with a klaw on a vehicle that has machine guns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PiñaColada wrote:

The problem with the wartrike is, as tneva stated, durability. Hard hitting stuff will delete him without too much trouble so the tricks he's bringing might just be in play for a turn or two


Warbosses have the same problem though, they're not more durable than wartrikes. The point with them is to hit hard in one turn against a valuable target, and if they die spend those 2CPs to let him strike again. They're going to die anyway, my warboss always dies if the game is a close one, but at least I let him die a hero and get serveral points of enemy units with him in hell. A 99 points warboss can 1-shot a knight in melee, I'm not sure about the wartrike but with the proper buffs it can do some heavy work too.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/03 12:18:54


Post by: tneva82


Only 1 warboss can do that though. 6 HQ. 3 weirdboy, warboss on bike(if allowed). 4. Leaves 2 more. Plenty room for wartrike anyway. 3 warboss!=3xpower. Only one can have the killa klaw after all


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/03 17:23:28


Post by: flaming tadpole


I've actually thought about spamming warbosses in a game. Just casting fist of gork on them one at a time and have them charge into something worth way more than their points to see how much damage they can do. Would be funny just to try out, I feel like it could be a half-way decent strat though.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/03 17:34:34


Post by: Waaaghpower


 Blackie wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Give him kulture and he is STILL horrible pile of junk. Might be playable at 600 pts but even that's dubious(and suffers still from lack of kulture. It's not even price of 3 HQ as orks often take 6 HQ anyway but 1 CP vs 5)


Isn't 600ish points the cost of the most overpowered imperial knight? Unfortunately the stompa would be overpriced even at 600 pts without a built-in invuln. Crappy BS and the main weapon that can be out of ammo very soon makes our big walker way inferior to proper superheavies' shooting.

I think the Stompa would be viable at 600 points even without a built-in invuln, but you can't play him like an Imperial Knight. With rerolls on 1s from Bad Moons his shooting is decent, but he's no Castellan, you can't run him as a dakka battery, you have to charge him forward and use his choppiness as well as his shootiness.

tneva82 wrote:
Here index is banned so no biker boss for me anyway.

Well, that's kind of ridiculous and frustrating. Do they give any logic for it? Index units are almost universally overcosted because they don't get price updates.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/03 19:22:08


Post by: Ilgoth


Yeah Im from Finland as well, and competetive scene is Codex-only with FW banned.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/03 19:26:55


Post by: tneva82


Forge isn't as often out as index but after ork codex came out index got into ban list almost universally.

(not 100% was it related to ork codex. Might have just noticed it then as only then it affected me)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Went through some rulepacks and yeah even in summer index largely banned in south finland tournaments. Fw is more of "depends on tournament". Not even same organizer has always on/off. Most consistently one organizer allows in casual but competive found both allowed and banned fw units


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/03 21:39:10


Post by: Ilgoth


Is unit of 10 Tankbustas big enough to have meaningful impact?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/03 22:03:36


Post by: ajax_xaja


Ilgoth wrote:
Is unit of 10 Tankbustas big enough to have meaningful impact?


Absolutely. A unit of 10 tankbustas is going to destroy most things with either More Dakka or Showin' Off (Bad Moons). Even more so if you use both.

The problem I've run into is that it only works once against each new opponent. They tend to get targeted fast if the opponent has seen them across the table before.

I've ended up doubling down on two trukks full of 10 tankbustas each for the redundancy at 2k, because losing your sole unit of tankbustas really hurts.

Disclaimer: This is all from casual-competitive experience, not necessarily at large tournaments.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/04 02:12:55


Post by: gungo


At 600 points a stompa would be fairly broken.
3 stompas and 2-3 bigmeks w kff
And badmoons or death-skull clan traits
Would be brutally hard to take down and overpower even with the cheesiest castllan list.

I do think the stompa would be viable with clan traits at 675 because it would limit a 2k list to 2 stompas 2 big Mek kff and 500 pts of chaff.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/04 04:12:37


Post by: JimOnMars


 ajax_xaja wrote:
Ilgoth wrote:
Is unit of 10 Tankbustas big enough to have meaningful impact?


Absolutely. A unit of 10 tankbustas is going to destroy most things with either More Dakka or Showin' Off (Bad Moons). Even more so if you use both.

The problem I've run into is that it only works once against each new opponent. They tend to get targeted fast if the opponent has seen them across the table before.

I've ended up doubling down on two trukks full of 10 tankbustas each for the redundancy at 2k, because losing your sole unit of tankbustas really hurts.

Disclaimer: This is all from casual-competitive experience, not necessarily at large tournaments.
I currently have 2 units...I will be making the third soon.

3 units of TBs in Trukks is a big chunk of the army, but often survive T1 to wreck face.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/04 04:20:36


Post by: Dr.Duck


Been tossing around a list with a few wagons and tankbustas using the new special detachment. Have yet to play it but it facilitates some interesting play getting boyz and bustas where you need them using hang on lads


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 JimOnMars wrote:
 Castozor wrote:
So perhaps an easy question for you guys but I'm finding myself in a bind. What anti-armor units should I be getting? I had a good run but my main opponent beat me twice in a row now using helldrakes and lots of armour. The flaw of only having SAGs for anti-armor is keeping my list down but I'm not sure what to get.
Tankbustas seem nice but pretty expensive points wise, and I probably need to buy a trukk for them too, scrapjet seems a nice alternative but not sure how good they are.
There is a reason Mek Guns cost $50. Get them. Many of them.


https://miniaturescenery.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=19


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/04 07:09:12


Post by: tneva82


gungo wrote:
At 600 points a stompa would be fairly broken.
3 stompas and 2-3 bigmeks w kff
And badmoons or death-skull clan traits
Would be brutally hard to take down and overpower even with the cheesiest castllan list.

I do think the stompa would be viable with clan traits at 675 because it would limit a 2k list to 2 stompas 2 big Mek kff and 500 pts of chaff.


Oh really? I have played stompa 4 times. 3 times it was 1 shotted. 1 time it survived first turn with 4 wounds. Yey. Real hard to take down.

People are gearing up to take T8 W28 3++ in one go. Stompa ain't nothing compared to that.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/04 07:57:15


Post by: Blackie


gungo wrote:
At 600 points a stompa would be fairly broken.
3 stompas and 2-3 bigmeks w kff
And badmoons or death-skull clan traits
Would be brutally hard to take down and overpower even with the cheesiest castllan list.

I do think the stompa would be viable with clan traits at 675 because it would limit a 2k list to 2 stompas 2 big Mek kff and 500 pts of chaff.


I think I'd only start considering using 1, and just 1, at 450-500 points maybe.

With the current competitive meta, where every list is designed to 1-shot a knight per turn, bringing a list with 2 big meks, 2 stompas and 500 pts of chaff would be autolose. Maybe overpowered in some casual meta because of the rock-paper-scissor concept of the list, but absolutely nothing game breaking. 3x bonebreakas and 1500+ points of everything else are certainly more scary.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/04 12:24:18


Post by: Ilgoth


I made my first 2k Ork list. Looking for help, and input with it. First I had brigade + battallion, but I felt 60 gretchins were too much. Didn't see all that CP farm worth of the damage potential.

Isn't ready. I have been going back and forth with HQs and I feel more Weirdboys is needed. Drop the Big Mek in Mega Arm. for 2nd Weirdboy?

# Two shoota boyz go into battlewagon
# nobz with banner into bonebreaka
# needed infantry to use Clan Kultur to its maximum
# 30 boys footslog it, and use the stratagem to bring them back once dwindled enough.


Spoiler:

###--- BRIGADE DETACHMENT -9 CP- Deathskulls ---###

HQ1: WARBOSS; Kustom Shoota, 2x Slugga, Big Choppa, Stikkbombs -72
-RELIC: Da Dead Shiny Shoota
HQ2: BIG MEK; Shokk Attack Gun, Stikkbombs (WARLORD: Opportunist) -80
-RELIC: Da Fixer Upperz
HQ3: WEIRDBOY -62


TROOP1: GRETCHIN x10 -30
TROOP2: GRETCHIN x10 -30
TROOP3: GRETCHIN x10 -30
TROOP4: BOYZ x10; Shootas -70
TROOP5: BOYZ x10; Shootas -70
TROOP6: BOYZ x30; Shootas x10, 20x Slugga & Choppa -210


ELITE1: NOBZ x11: 9x Nobz Big Choppa & Choppa & Stikkbombs, 2x Ammo Runts -179
ELITE2: NOB w/ BANNER -77
ELITE3: TANKBUSTAS; 10x Rokkit Launcha, Stikkbombz, Tankbusta Bombs -170

FAST1: STORMBOYZ; 9x Slugga & Choppa & Stikkbombs, 1x Big Choppa & Choppa -95
FAST2: STORMBOYZ; 9x Slugga & Choppa & Stikkbombs, 1x Big Choppa & Choppa -95
FAST3: STORMBOYZ; 9x Slugga & Choppa & Stikkbombs, 1x Big Choppa & Choppa -95

HEAVY1: BATTLEWAGON; Kannon, Deff Rolla, Stikkbomb Chukka -159
HEAVY2: BONEBREAKA; Lobba -155
HEAVY3: MEK GUNZ; 2x Traktor Kannon -90

###--- VANGUARD DETACHMENT -1 CP- Deathskulls ---###

HQ1: BIG MEK in Mega Arm; Kustom Mega Blasta, Power Klaw, Kustom Force Field -109

ELITE1: KOMMANDOS; 5x Slugga & Choppa & Stikkbombs, 1x Tankbusta Bomb -40
ELITE2: KOMMANDOS; 5x Slugga & Choppa & Stikkbombs, 1x Tankbusta Bomb -40
ELITE3: KOMMANDOS; 5x Slugga & Choppa & Stikkbombs, 1x Tankbusta Bomb -40

TOTAL: 1999
CP: 13 (-1 on extra shiny gobbinz)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/04 15:21:52


Post by: PiñaColada


Ilgoth wrote:
I made my first 2k Ork list. Looking for help, and input with it. First I had brigade + battallion, but I felt 60 gretchins were too much. Didn't see all that CP farm worth of the damage potential.

Isn't ready. I have been going back and forth with HQs and I feel more Weirdboys is needed. Drop the Big Mek in Mega Arm. for 2nd Weirdboy?

# Two shoota boyz go into battlewagon
# nobz with banner into bonebreaka
# needed infantry to use Clan Kultur to its maximum
# 30 boys footslog it, and use the stratagem to bring them back once dwindled enough.


Spoiler:

###--- BRIGADE DETACHMENT -9 CP- Deathskulls ---###

HQ1: WARBOSS; Kustom Shoota, 2x Slugga, Big Choppa, Stikkbombs -72
-RELIC: Da Dead Shiny Shoota
HQ2: BIG MEK; Shokk Attack Gun, Stikkbombs (WARLORD: Opportunist) -80
-RELIC: Da Fixer Upperz
HQ3: WEIRDBOY -62


TROOP1: GRETCHIN x10 -30
TROOP2: GRETCHIN x10 -30
TROOP3: GRETCHIN x10 -30
TROOP4: BOYZ x10; Shootas -70
TROOP5: BOYZ x10; Shootas -70
TROOP6: BOYZ x30; Shootas x10, 20x Slugga & Choppa -210


ELITE1: NOBZ x11: 9x Nobz Big Choppa & Choppa & Stikkbombs, 2x Ammo Runts -179
ELITE2: NOB w/ BANNER -77
ELITE3: TANKBUSTAS; 10x Rokkit Launcha, Stikkbombz, Tankbusta Bombs -170

FAST1: STORMBOYZ; 9x Slugga & Choppa & Stikkbombs, 1x Big Choppa & Choppa -95
FAST2: STORMBOYZ; 9x Slugga & Choppa & Stikkbombs, 1x Big Choppa & Choppa -95
FAST3: STORMBOYZ; 9x Slugga & Choppa & Stikkbombs, 1x Big Choppa & Choppa -95

HEAVY1: BATTLEWAGON; Kannon, Deff Rolla, Stikkbomb Chukka -159
HEAVY2: BONEBREAKA; Lobba -155
HEAVY3: MEK GUNZ; 2x Traktor Kannon -90

###--- VANGUARD DETACHMENT -1 CP- Deathskulls ---###

HQ1: BIG MEK in Mega Arm; Kustom Mega Blasta, Power Klaw, Kustom Force Field -109

ELITE1: KOMMANDOS; 5x Slugga & Choppa & Stikkbombs, 1x Tankbusta Bomb -40
ELITE2: KOMMANDOS; 5x Slugga & Choppa & Stikkbombs, 1x Tankbusta Bomb -40
ELITE3: KOMMANDOS; 5x Slugga & Choppa & Stikkbombs, 1x Tankbusta Bomb -40

TOTAL: 1999
CP: 13 (-1 on extra shiny gobbinz)

Overall I feel like it could be a solid list. You got a few things wrong that I can see though. The bonebreaka is 140 points base but you still need to pay for the deffrolla, which is 19. So it's 159 points minimum.

Ammo runts for the Nobz are 1 per 5 nobz meaning you can't get 2 runts with just 9 nobz. So take one runt off there. I'd also remove 2/3 big choppas and go with a few double choppas just so you get a few really cheap nobz that die first.

I'm personally not a fan of big gunz on the battlewagons since they often advance but that's a preference thing. If you're okay with using index stuff then throwing a rokkit launcha on each of the kommando squads could be an idea because of the rerolls. If index is a no-no you should consider it on your shoota boyz. I would also recommend deep-striking your boyz blob since they are the only low toughness thing on the board T1 and could easily just be shot off the board then. A KFF is really good to have but I have to admit it's very liberating not having to keep inside some bubble all the time, another weirdboy is a good HQ if you feel like switching him out.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/04 16:12:31


Post by: Ilgoth


Thank you for correcting! This is why I share.

Didn't realise the deff rolla had to be had into wargear, thank you for pointing it out.

Is bonebreaka's higher toughness and bonebreaka ram ability worth the increased cost when compared to battlewagon?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/04 17:06:14


Post by: owni


Hello all,
Thoughts on tank Busta load outs?
I'm running 4x5+squig deffskullz split in 2 trucks
Is it worth taking pistols or hammer?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/04 17:21:12


Post by: JimOnMars


 owni wrote:
Hello all,
Thoughts on tank Busta load outs?
I'm running 4x5+squig deffskullz split in 2 trucks
Is it worth taking pistols or hammer?
Short answer: No.

Long answer: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Take another TB.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/04 17:22:52


Post by: Rismonite


 owni wrote:
Hello all,
Thoughts on tank Busta load outs?
I'm running 4x5+squig deffskullz split in 2 trucks
Is it worth taking pistols or hammer?


I think what you have posted is ideal. I would not bother with hammer or pistols. You can always utilize the grenade stratagem if you need more bite.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
EDIT, hey what is this about a Relic SAG? Did I miss something in Chapter Approved? I basically lived at work November and December, any other goodies I missed out on?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/04 19:26:44


Post by: PiñaColada


Ilgoth wrote:Thank you for correcting! This is why I share.

Didn't realise the deff rolla had to be had into wargear, thank you for pointing it out.

Is bonebreaka's higher toughness and bonebreaka ram ability worth the increased cost when compared to battlewagon?

I think the bonebreaka is great for its points since it buffs it significantly at full health and stems the flow of damage degradation when hurt. (It's always +d6 attacks, but the wagon itself goes from 6 to d6 to d3). You need to weigh if that's worth dropping 8 ork capacity though, since its absolutely worth 20 points.

Rismonite wrote:
 owni wrote:
Hello all,
Thoughts on tank Busta load outs?
I'm running 4x5+squig deffskullz split in 2 trucks
Is it worth taking pistols or hammer?


I think what you have posted is ideal. I would not bother with hammer or pistols. You can always utilize the grenade stratagem if you need more bite.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
EDIT, hey what is this about a Relic SAG? Did I miss something in Chapter Approved? I basically lived at work November and December, any other goodies I missed out on?

The relic SAG, da souped-up shokka, is a 2d6 shots SAG. It comes from the dread waaagh detachment in vigilus defiant, you can read about what that does in general on 1d4chan ork tactics I think.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/04 19:57:20


Post by: flaming tadpole


 owni wrote:
Hello all,
Thoughts on tank Busta load outs?
I'm running 4x5+squig deffskullz split in 2 trucks
Is it worth taking pistols or hammer?

How your running them is good, but also technically illegal if your doing matched play. Rule of three and stuff.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/05 01:15:01


Post by: Castozor


Ilgoth wrote:
Thank you for correcting! This is why I share.

Didn't realise the deff rolla had to be had into wargear, thank you for pointing it out.

Is bonebreaka's higher toughness and bonebreaka ram ability worth the increased cost when compared to battlewagon?

I haven't experimented a lot with a standard BW a lot yet but in my opinion, yes. T8 is great step up from T7, although that just might be my personal meta which is full of S4 attacks. And the D6 extra attacks are great too. It's just 20 extra points for a enormous (depending on meta) survivability and situational extra damage. Also being separate data sheets means you can take say 2 breakas and 2 regular BW's if you want. It's what I plan on doing once I have the models for it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/05 08:45:45


Post by: tneva82


Mind you the T8 is not bonebreaker specific. Reqular battlewagon can have that for free as well. Bonebreaker pays 20 pts AND lower transport capacity for d6 attack ability.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/05 10:03:47


Post by: Ilgoth


Ah yeah 'Ard Case. Overlooked it.

Tough to say. I feel that 20 points on more attacks is decent banking, given you have formed the amount of bodies you planned to wield. Bonebreaka + CC nobz inside sounds like amazing fist to the enemy lines. Honestly now thinking about revamping the list to make two such forces.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/05 10:22:42


Post by: tneva82


Yeah not saying it's bad. Just that the T8 isn't exclusive and there are point for regular. Either for more passengers(add in some support char's and ammo runts and it gets crowded) or to fit into point/reserve limit. I had once change to regular just to keep 50% of army in reserve!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/05 10:32:09


Post by: PiñaColada


Good thing is that they look identical, so as long as you're clear to your opponent which version it is you're using then you can easily try out both.

I find the bonebreakas to be perfect for a 10+2 nob squad but if you want to start to stuff in character(s) in it as well then it's a bit trickier since your ammo runts are probably the first to go, meaning that actual nobz would die in the explosion. I've often found myself running 1 bonebreaka & 1 battlewagon (with deffrolla). Where the contents of the battlewagon might be a bit scarier but the actual bonebreaka is a monster in CC so you'll end up getting something spicy into combat


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/05 10:53:33


Post by: Ilgoth


It is good way to confuse opponent which one to focus down. I keep it mind!

I posted my list after changing up from previous set up. Double battallion + vanguard structure. Allowed better unit sizes, but achieved the same CPs, so perfect swap. Feel free to post feedback. Liking the unit choices, and all the models in it. Having warbosses, made one more CC threat and one more towards dakka dakka dakka.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/769386.page#10297103


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/05 11:40:54


Post by: PiñaColada


Ilgoth wrote:
It is good way to confuse opponent which one to focus down. I keep it mind!

I posted my list after changing up from previous set up. Double battallion + vanguard structure. Allowed better unit sizes, but achieved the same CPs, so perfect swap. Feel free to post feedback. Liking the unit choices, and all the models in it. Having warbosses, made one more CC threat and one more towards dakka dakka dakka.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/769386.page#10297103

I posted some thoughts and suggestions in that thread, overall I think you're looking good


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/05 17:31:26


Post by: Ilgoth


PiñaColada wrote:

I posted some thoughts and suggestions in that thread, overall I think you're looking good


Thanks for the help you have given!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/05 19:51:46


Post by: flaming tadpole


Has anyone tried grouping 3 squads of lootas up with the third squad coming in from a teleporta? Having possibly 210 autocannon shots from one shooting phase just seems ridiculous. The damage output from just one shooting phase when I was mathhammering it out was beautiful, lol.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/05 20:17:50


Post by: Grimskul


 flaming tadpole wrote:
Has anyone tried grouping 3 squads of lootas up with the third squad coming in from a teleporta? Having possibly 210 autocannon shots from one shooting phase just seems ridiculous. The damage output from just one shooting phase when I was mathhammering it out was beautiful, lol.


As intriguing as that sounds, it's definitely too much overkill. Not even factoring points, that's a butt ton of CP expenditure on a unit that will shoot to death maybe a few units at best. Afterwards it's unwieldy as heck to use and you basically have to da Jump it afterwards to get any mileage out of them.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/05 20:24:23


Post by: PiñaColada


Ilgoth wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:

I posted some thoughts and suggestions in that thread, overall I think you're looking good


Thanks for the help you have given!

No problem bud, I really like the list building aspect of 40k so I'm happy to give some input. I also see that you've gotten another response taking you into another direction that might be worth looking into. Assuming you haven't already have all those models painted up I'd try to look at the list as a living thing that can evolve. Play a few games along the way (at 750/1000/1250/1500 etc) and see which elements of the army you really like and what you feel like you're missing. Overall deffskullz are a great choice but just remember to try and take advantage of all those free rerolls

Grimskul wrote:
 flaming tadpole wrote:
Has anyone tried grouping 3 squads of lootas up with the third squad coming in from a teleporta? Having possibly 210 autocannon shots from one shooting phase just seems ridiculous. The damage output from just one shooting phase when I was mathhammering it out was beautiful, lol.


As intriguing as that sounds, it's definitely too much overkill. Not even factoring points, that's a butt ton of CP expenditure on a unit that will shoot to death maybe a few units at best. Afterwards it's unwieldy as heck to use and you basically have to da Jump it afterwards to get any mileage out of them.

Ahem, excuse me but are you suggesting that this is too much dakka?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/05 20:27:10


Post by: Grimskul



No such thing my good Ork. No, I'm saying it's too much WASTED dakka.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/05 20:44:00


Post by: PiñaColada


"Wasted" dakka is still music for ork ears, but point taken.

On a tactical level I agree with you, a bit too many eggs in that basket (which can already be a problem with 25 lootas)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/05 20:44:21


Post by: Rismonite


 flaming tadpole wrote:
Has anyone tried grouping 3 squads of lootas up with the third squad coming in from a teleporta? Having possibly 210 autocannon shots from one shooting phase just seems ridiculous. The damage output from just one shooting phase when I was mathhammering it out was beautiful, lol.


I think you can only Mob Up a squad with a up to a squad of ten, preventing this.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/05 20:49:06


Post by: PiñaColada


 Rismonite wrote:
 flaming tadpole wrote:
Has anyone tried grouping 3 squads of lootas up with the third squad coming in from a teleporta? Having possibly 210 autocannon shots from one shooting phase just seems ridiculous. The damage output from just one shooting phase when I was mathhammering it out was beautiful, lol.


I think you can only Mob Up a squad with a up to a squad of ten, preventing this.

What do you mean? The restrictions (as far as I know) are only that 1 unit is 10 or more and the other unit is 10 or fewer, has this been FAQed somewhere?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/05 21:20:39


Post by: Ilgoth


PiñaColada wrote:

No problem bud, I really like the list building aspect of 40k so I'm happy to give some input. I also see that you've gotten another response taking you into another direction that might be worth looking into. Assuming you haven't already have all those models painted up I'd try to look at the list as a living thing that can evolve. Play a few games along the way (at 750/1000/1250/1500 etc) and see which elements of the army you really like and what you feel like you're missing. Overall deffskullz are a great choice but just remember to try and take advantage of all those free rerolls


Listbuilding is definately fun! I did see his post, but honestly dont feel reverting to brigade, as it means loss of CP and freedom with unit sizes.

I personally think there is definately the area of overkill with shots, as it is basically invested points that dont likely change the outcome. Being too much about one trick just calls for easy targeting. Not saying that lootas trick would be bad, but I feel its sub-optimal.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/05 22:16:03


Post by: flaming tadpole


Idk, you only really need one good shooting phase out of them. If you have to da jump them to get them in an optimal position I think that's fine cause there isn't going to be much left of your opponents army afterwards, lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's a sample list I came up with for it.

Spoiler:

Badmoonz battalion:

HQ
2 Weirdboy

Troops
3x10 grots

Elites
15 lootas
2x10 lootas

Heavy
5 smasha's

Evil sunz battalion:

HQ
biker smashboss
big mek - KFF

Troops
3x30 boyz - nob w/ BC

Bad moonz battalion:

HQ
Weirdboy
Big mek - KFF

Troops
3x10 grots


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/06 10:54:00


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


 Grimskul wrote:

No such thing my good Ork. No, I'm saying it's too much WASTED dakka.

If your worried about this than split your fire. #allshotsmatter


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/06 14:41:05


Post by: Moriarty


There is no such thing as ‘overkill’ - just an insufficiency of targets.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/06 14:59:26


Post by: Blackie


Moriarty wrote:
There is no such thing as ‘overkill’ - just an insufficiency of targets.


At 2000 points? Not at all.

25 lootas with Mora Dakka and shooting twice have barely the average to bring down a land raider in a turn of shooting and the crusader is now just 264 points.

It's actually quite the opposite of what you said, you'll probably have too many targets for your lootas.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/06 19:10:47


Post by: SemperMortis


 Blackie wrote:
Moriarty wrote:
There is no such thing as ‘overkill’ - just an insufficiency of targets.


At 2000 points? Not at all.

25 lootas with Mora Dakka and shooting twice have barely the average to bring down a land raider in a turn of shooting and the crusader is now just 264 points.

It's actually quite the opposite of what you said, you'll probably have too many targets for your lootas.


Toughness 8 targets yes, Toughness 7 targets and below are going to get liquified.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/06 21:23:34


Post by: tneva82


Okay casual(ish) tournament was today. As usual here index flowchart banned. I had planned bad moon/evil sun/goff alliance but badruk didn't show up in FLGS in time so running out on cheap enough HQ's I had to swap in shock attack gun which meant death skull which meant goff became deathskull instead.

Battalion: bad moon

HQ1: weirdboy(da jump) 62
HQ2: weirdboy(da jump) 62
Troop1: 29xboyz(29xshoota)+nob(power klaw, slugga) 223
Troop2: 30xgrot 90
Troop3: 30xgrot 90
Heavy1: 15xloota 255
Heavy2: 2xmek gun(2xsmasha gun) 62

Battalion: deathskull

HQ1: big mek with shock attack gun 80
HQ2: warboss(big choppa, kustom shoota) 72
Troop1: 29xboyz(29xchoppa&slugga)+nob(power klaw, slugga) 223
Troop2: 10xgrot 30
Troop3: 10xgrot 30

Battalion: evil sun

HQ1: warboss(power klaw(killy klaw), WARLORD: brutal but kunning, kustom shoota) 80
HQ2: weirdboy(warpath) 62
Troop1: 29xboyz(29xchoppa&slugga)+nob(big choppa) 215
Troop2: 9xboyz(9xshoota)+nob(power klaw) 83
Troop3: 10xgrot 30

As tournament used CA2018 esque deployment which meant half the time my favourite warlord trait(kunning but brutal) doesn't work all that much I went for the standard killy boss instead. Let's see how that works out.

First up was ultramarines.

Spoiler:
Battalion detachment: Space marines, Ultramarines (5CP)

HQ1: Captain (74), Plasma pistol (5), Chainsword, Teeth of Terra, Storm of fire, Warlord [79]
HQ2: Lieutenant (60), bolt pistol, Chainsword [60]
HQ3: Captain in Cataphractii Armor (95), Chainfist (11), Combi melta (15) [121]
Troop1: Scout Squad (55), Heavy Bolter (10) [65]
Troop2: Tactical Squad (130), Plasma pistol (5), Plasma gun (11), Heavy Bolter (10) [156]
Troop3: Tactical Squad (91), Plasma pistol (5), Power fist (9) Melta bombs (5), Meltagun (14) [124]
Elite1: Vanguard Veteran Squad (70), Jump packs (15), Melta bombs (5), 3xTwin lightning claw (36), 2xStorm shield (4), 2xThunder hammer (32) [162]
Elite2: Venerable Dreadnought (80), Twin lascannon (40), Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter (32) [152]
Fast Attack: Inceptor squad (75), Assault bolters (60) [135]
Heavy support: Devastator Squad (65), 3xlascannon (75), Missile launcher (20) [160]
Flyer1: Stormtalon Gunship (110), Twin assault cannon (44), Two lascannons (50) [204]
Flyer2: Stormtalon Gunship (110), Twin assault cannon (44), Typhoon missile launcher (38) [192]
Transport1: Rhino (70), 2xstorm bolter (4) [74]
Transport2: Drop pod (63), storm bolter (2) [65]


Scenarios mix of eternal war(1-4 objectives are such, if in enemy dz worth 4, your own dz 1, otherwise 2) and maelstrom(first turn 1, then 1+1 per objective controlled). He won roll to pick up deployment zone so I would be going first and he didn't succeed in seize. However due to huge amount of LOS blocking as usual here lootas basically had just devastators to shoot up(wonder why he put them there in the first place) and last one was blown by either smasha gun or SAG. Bad moon boyz da jumped and shot 4 scouts but last one survived(and got objective on his turn). On his turn I warned that if he does not shoot at them I'll use autopass morale and endless tide and bring them back. As he had never faced orks he was gratefull for the tip and killed them for good. I got stormtalons by lootas when they came out though I had to da jump lootas near his DZ on turn 3 to get LOS. Also got rid of inceptor's while I was that. They would march(yes that's right march) chasing his HQ's and rhino to get something on LOS. My warboss T2 tried solo deep strike and get both venerable dreadnought and his warlord(hopefully I would have been able to position warlord far enough to prevent heroic intervene and then consolidiate+fight again kill him. If not and I die strike once more was the plan) but failing charge even with reroll...

And btw pre-tournament I had asked can I reroll first 1 dice with one source and then if need be other and had showed FAQ entry regarding that and had been told I can use ork reroll and then CP reroll. So that's what I did having rolled 5 and 1 or 2 and then 2 but hoping for 5->6 with CP reroll failed. Ah well. Unsurprisingly he died.

Evil suns(all 40) had charged into termi captain who soaked damage easily and tactical squad that died but dreadnought came along and killed them.

In the end he had not much to do and I was struggling to get LOS to hiding stuff. I tried to smite his warlord but failed the cast roll(he had 1 wound left...) but his plasma hit failed to kill my 1w weirdboy in return for kill point.

Death skull warboss had taken one objective at one point thanks to ob sec. That was fun.

All in all as cards had been fairly quiet it wasn't that big difference but last 2 turns I got tons of good cards and 2 point ones at that and got 5 points from EW objectives so scored 17-3 win. Yey.

Game 2:

Spoiler:
Black Templars Battalion

HQ Captain in gravis armor, warlord 118
HQ Primaris lieutenant 74
TROOP 5 Intercessors 85
TROOP 5 Intercessors 85
TROOP 6 Intercessors 102
ELITE Contemptor dreadought kheres 145
ELITE Contemptor dreadought kheres 145
ELITE Contemptor dreadought kheres 145
ELITE Redemptor dreadnought 157
FAST Inceptor squad 135
HEAVY Repulsor 274
HEAVY Repulsor 274


Oh beepity beepity beep. There was actually 2 double repulsor lists and this one might be the milder one.

This is brief. He got first turn. In deployment I had trouble. If I put lootas out of LOS I need da jump and then I have all the boyz(somehow I didn't deep strike figuring fight again etc are more valuable. Big mistake) can't use it. So I trusted my grot screen.

Turn 1 casualties: All bad moon grots. One unit of 10 grots. All lootas. 10 death skull. 11 bad moon...

Needless to say I was stunned at the firepower unleashed. 60 models out is no stranger to me in a turn. First time over 100 though.

Unsurprisingly this ended in 20-0. T5 I had nothing on board. Not automatic 20-0 but he had more than enough for 20-0 anyway without even playing turns 5 and 6.

My warlord in T1 did charge and kill repulsor. HAH! Blew up killing his warlord, 6 wounds to other repulsor and killed my warlord before he could fight again to intercessors he had declared charge(and who had eaten deth skull warboss charge). I forgot I could use the fight one last time to also pile in. I fought again lots of times(to not much effect except trap one squad of interceptors in h2h and force 2 dreadnoughts and jump pack guys to charge in and nearly wipe out evil suns. Those hadn't mobbed up to allow endless tide(I wanted to provide 3 units so at least one would survive). Here I wasn't anymore even thinking optimally so just went for kill stuff and tried to kill the big dreadnought and got to 2 wounds. Fell back, 1 dread and jump packers and 5 basic marines killed them again.

Other repulsor died to smites and smasha guns. Yey. SAG sucked as pretty much all tournament. Think my average S was around 5 and shots between 2 and 3.

Yep yep.

Game 3. NOT game I'm proud to describe. Goes high in my list of games where I snatch defeat from jaws of victory. I blame fatique.

Spoiler:
Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) Detachment Attribute: Prophets of Flesh

HQ Haemonculus [77pts]: Hexrifle [5pts], The Nightmare Doll, Venom Blade [2pts], Warlord (Haemonculus) Diabolical Soothsayer
HQ Haemonculus [77pts]: Stinger Pistol [5pts], Venom Blade [2pts]
TROOP Wracks [56pts] Acothyst [9pts]: Haemonculus tools, 3x Wracks [27pts] Wrack with special weapon (up to 1 for 5 models) [20pts]: Liquifier Gun [11pts]
TROOP Wracks [56pts] Acothyst [9pts]: Haemonculus tools, 3x Wracks [27pts] Wrack with special weapon [16pts]: Ossefactor [7pts]
TROOP Wracks [45pts] Acothyst [9pts]: Haemonculus tools, 4x Wracks [36pts]
ELITE 8 Grotesques with Monstrous Cleaver [2 PL, 35pts]: Flesh Gauntlet [3pts]
ELITES Mandrakes [160pts]: 9x Mandrake [144pts], Nightfiend [16pts]
HEAVY Cronos [80pts]: Spirit Probe [5pts], Spirit Vortex [10pts]
HEAVY Tantalus [400pts]
HEAVY: Talos [99pts]: 2 x Macro-Scalpel, 2x Haywire blaster [16pts]
Talos [99pts]: 2 x Macro-Scalpel, 2x Haywire blaster [16pts]
Talos [98pts]: 2 x Macro-Scalpel, Stinger Pod [15pts]

Dedicated Transport
Venom [77pts]: Chain Snares , Splinter Cannon x 2
Venom [75pts]: Splinter Cannon x 2
Venom [75pts]: Splinter Cannon x 2


Never heard of tantalus but apart from the contents of grotesques didn't worry me too much. I was feeling fairly confident. Especially when I got first turn right. Screwed bit on deployment and put both bad moons and evil suns on my right. Issue came when he deployed everything out of LOS from lootas and those orks wouldn't have much to do if I da jump lootas...

...however problem "solved" itself when he seized nad tantalus moved forward as did talos squadron. He killed some bad moon grots there and blew out one smasha gun(12 disintegrator shots has funny effect of doing that). However I retaliated by wiping out talos squadron he had been confident on(he hadn't played 8th ed orks so underestimated them). With 3 shots and first salvo leaving just 1 plus 1 down to 1 wound I split fire as much as I possibly could(5 lootas) to tantalus as I didn't WANT to kill all talos. I wanted one alive and wounded for death skull warboss to charge and kill for blood and guts. Alas then dices rolled super hot and I would have killed 2+ talos with ease. Also dented tantalus bit to which warboss then charged with lucky 10" charge wounding bit more and scoring objective(progressive per turn. This surprised him as unsurprisingly he didn't expect HQ to be obsec). Bad moons had jumped left and did charge to venom killing it(blood and guts) bringing in some wracks.

T2 grotesques and cronos surrounded death skull warboss(some overkill...) and also with 9 wracks charged bad moons. They took heavy casualties and came back(stupidly on same area). Mandrakes deep striked but failed to charge my 30 evil sunz though did shoot 8 evil sunz from mob of 10.

I mobbed evil sunz and not needing da jump charged grotesques. Warlord went to help with grotesques. I got 3 shots at lootas again and fired at grotesques but for some reason opted to "save CP. Warlord can sort them" and did NOT shoot again. Thought more dakka would be better next turn...I failed the charge despite trying to again CP reroll 5 to 6 in desperation. At least bad moons got in and kept them from charging warlord but died in process.

I tried to da jump evil sun boyz there and charge(tunnel vision. I should have went to one of his corners with 5 wracks and venom and objective instead). Warlord finally charged wracks. Some HQ heroic intervened. Killed 1 and wounded one near dead(6+++). Died, attacked again and finished last. Boyz charged into wracks but eventually died leaving 1 and 2 left. Drat(squad was near dead. Mandrakes had intercepted and struct first killing TONS. Maybe should have let grotesques do that to bad moons instead).

But overall I was making TONS of errors here. I lost like 5-6 vp's from simply not positioning model near objective. Fall back grots from his warlord. NOT go to objective etc etc etc. I forgot twice da jump(2 vp at least) and worst of all...I forgot death skull boyz into reserve so they died there. Oops. They could have taken another 2 vp from landing into take and hold(worth extra vp due to scenario rule) and as he unlikely would have got them killed(both our armies were fairly spent so 30 boyz would have been tough nuts to remove from there) likely more(1 per objective per turn) and gave him free kill point. Sigh.

So...Lost 7-14. Score could easily have been reversed without all those silly mistakes.

Next tournament I swear I don't take that loota unit. It's effective yes but damn all that dice rolling! Rolling easily 100+ shots with them in a turn when I roll 3 for shots is grueling.

Also the terrain here makes those long range heavy units bit hard and if I use da jump for them don't use da jump for boyz etc. So either I need to deepstrike them or have non-foot slogging boyz.

And change of pace would be fun.

[Thumb - tmp-cam-2068775534825324844.jpg]
[Thumb - tmp-cam-1978815979195279416.jpg]


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/06 22:16:22


Post by: PiñaColada



Cool of you to share Tneva, shame you didn't get that last one! Also that BT list sure puts out a lot of dakka but I got to be honest, it's the type of list that'd get stomped on by a proper IK list, so it's just a luck of the draw type deal.

Personally I completely get your point about lootas but I'd almost go further where I wouldn't really want to take them in tournaments because of Agents of Vect. I've twice now seen Orks lists been neutered by that strat and I'm just not sure if it's even worth the risk. It's not like DE or that strat are uncommon sights at tournaments


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/06 22:19:38


Post by: tneva82


Oh forgot to mention low's were banned in this tournament(and generally this seemed to be liked on)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/06 22:26:46


Post by: PiñaColada


tneva82 wrote:
Oh forgot to mention low's were banned in this tournament(and generally this seemed to be liked on)

Ah, then that second list makes a lot more sense IMO, I was thinking there was a real daredevil there willing to risk facing IK. Because if that happened both repulsors and a couple of dreadnoughts would be melted T1 most likely.

But if people are okay with a legal army being completely banned from an event even at "full scale" points then that speaks poorly for how its balanced/percieved to be balanced.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/06 23:13:48


Post by: Ilgoth


The tournament he talks about was aimed more towards casual and friendly, but still use matched play -rules to allow newcomers to try semi-competetive playing. Aka first step towards more competetive scene. So explains unusual rules.

tneva82 I think your lost just lacks overall mobility. Board control is hard to achieve without it (one thing why I root for Stormboyz infantry and mechanized lists).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 01:29:16


Post by: cody.d.


Hey guys.

First time posting in as long as I remember. I was hoping to get some practiced eyes on a 2K list I'm taking to a tourney this weekend. Been playing with orks for ages and am pretty happy with the codex overall, minus the slashing of our HQ selections. Index choices allowed.

Spoiler:

Badmoons Battalion
Weirdboy with Da jump
Weirdboy warphead with Fists and warpath

30 shootaboys, Bigchoppa/choppa nob and 3 tankbusta bombs
10 shootaboys, Bigchoppa/choppa nob and 1 tankbusta bomb
16 grots

2 Scrapjets
1 Dragsta

15 lootas
10 lootas

Goffs battalion

Mek with KFF
Bike boss with relic klaw and brutal but kunnin

20 choppa Skarboys with big choppa/choppa nob and 2 tankbusta bombs
20 choppa Skarboys with big choppa/choppa nob and 2 tankbusta bombs
10 grots

2 battlewagons with rolla and ard case



The basic idea is that the skarboys sit in the wagons, which in turn sit infront of the lootas and grots. First turn either the shoota boys or the lootas mob up, depending on if I need firepower from the lootas or to jump in 40 shoota boys into the enemy backline. The boss does usual boss stuff, keeping in the cover of either the big wagons or the scrapjets and dragsta while the mek hops around giving invuls to as many of the tanks as I can manage. Or the shootaboys if I feel that they are going to be the more important threat. I've had much sucess with da shokk shoota lads as I like to call them.

The tourney usually has a healthy dose of knights, with the occasional Magnus causing issues. Other than that i shouldn't have too much trouble fulfilling ITC missions.

Thoughts?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 01:51:39


Post by: BaconCatBug


Because of Knights you simply don't have any chance. Even a double tankbusta bomb can't put a dent in them. Your Biker Boss won't ever get close enough to melee the knights and the Lootas won't scratch the knights either.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 05:57:11


Post by: cody.d.


So what would you recommend? Between lootas and tankbustas the lootas always stood out to me due to being useful even if the enemy didn't bring any vehicles. (Rare as that may be.) I also have scrapjets, deffrollas and the skarboys themselves who can put a few extra wounds onto any large targets.



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 07:18:54


Post by: Blackie


SemperMortis wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
Moriarty wrote:
There is no such thing as ‘overkill’ - just an insufficiency of targets.


At 2000 points? Not at all.

25 lootas with Mora Dakka and shooting twice have barely the average to bring down a land raider in a turn of shooting and the crusader is now just 264 points.

It's actually quite the opposite of what you said, you'll probably have too many targets for your lootas.


Toughness 8 targets yes, Toughness 7 targets and below are going to get liquified.


Against drukhari, even if orks start first, 25 lootas don't have the math to kill all the T5, T6, T7 vehicles and monsters thanks to their invulns and 6+++. In all the games I've played with those 25 lootas not a single time they ran out of appropriate targets.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 07:21:24


Post by: BaconCatBug


I recommend not bothering with Organised Tournament play unless you're bringing Knights+Custodes tbh. However if you luck into not facing them you'll be fine with your current list.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 07:23:21


Post by: Blackie


If you're sure to face a knight I'd take the max tankbustas bomb and 1-2 dakkajets. Then charge the walker with bonebreakas and/or biker boss. I don't think there's a super effective way to deal with the most overpowered knight at the moment, it's the most broken combo, the flavor of the month. To kill it you must dedicate way more points of your stuff than the knight's cost.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 07:30:54


Post by: hortsmann


To be fair, the best way for orks to deal with a Castellan is to only bring 1W models except for characters, and ignore it. Castellan is terrible at killing hordes, and it seems to be the most common knight around. A Killa Claw warboss can be enough of a threat to stop it from going into melee.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 08:54:44


Post by: PiñaColada


Facing Imperial Knights is tough, since they have a few models that are way too good for their points especially when souped up.
Primarily the gallants because they're so cheap and the Castellan for their firepower.

Facing a singular Knight + Guard brigade is something you (as in all ork players) should be ready for in a tournament. That list probably also has a supreme command detachment of three shield captains of jetbikes because they're stupid point efficient.

Generally speaking, if you're facing army + 1 Knight then I think you should try to kill the knight, a character in CC will do damage to them and might kill them if you get to swing again (either from get stuck in ladz or from orkz is never beaten). If they're rolling with a Castellan and a guard brigade I just assume you have enough Orkz to deal with the 'umies so that's a winnable match. If they also have the shield captains or plural knights then you might have to start abusing stupid ITC rules assuming that's the ruleset. Hide stuff inside LoS blocking buildings, since those things can't enter and only Guard has some mortars that can really reach them.

Overall if you're facing IK as orkz it's really important to play the mission unless you have some really oddball list that's entirely consisted of MANZ, tankbustas, lootas etc


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 12:18:18


Post by: Ilgoth


Blackie wrote:I don't think there's a super effective way to deal with the most overpowered knight at the moment, it's the most broken combo, the flavor of the month. To kill it you must dedicate way more points of your stuff than the knight's cost.

hortsmann wrote:To be fair, the best way for orks to deal with a Castellan is to only bring 1W models except for characters, and ignore it. Castellan is terrible at killing hordes, and it seems to be the most common knight around. A Killa Claw warboss can be enough of a threat to stop it from going into melee.



Castellan is what 600points? I think it has always been a solid idea to ignore, and focus on removing everything around. That way I think the whole 600points is pretty hard to pay dividents. Even if it did remove all the vehicles I got going, it's still 600pts for under 400pts. And most of those vehicles did their job by that time.

Most common knights I see tends to be 1 castellan and 2 gallants.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 12:59:40


Post by: Singleton Mosby


Ilgoth wrote:
Blackie wrote:I don't think there's a super effective way to deal with the most overpowered knight at the moment, it's the most broken combo, the flavor of the month. To kill it you must dedicate way more points of your stuff than the knight's cost.

hortsmann wrote:To be fair, the best way for orks to deal with a Castellan is to only bring 1W models except for characters, and ignore it. Castellan is terrible at killing hordes, and it seems to be the most common knight around. A Killa Claw warboss can be enough of a threat to stop it from going into melee.



Castellan is what 600points? I think it has always been a solid idea to ignore, and focus on removing everything around. That way I think the whole 600points is pretty hard to pay dividents. Even if it did remove all the vehicles I got going, it's still 600pts for under 400pts. And most of those vehicles did their job by that time.

Most common knights I see tends to be 1 castellan and 2 gallants.


My recipe for a Castellan:
- 10 tankbusta's in a Chinork. Bring it within 6
- Use strategem "Long uncontrolable bursts" on the Chinork
- Use extra Stikkbombs on the tankbustas"

10 x d3 rerollable shots which hit on a 4+ (3+ when Freetbootaz). d6 damage the piece will hurt the knight for sure.

Would this work?



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 13:04:55


Post by: tneva82


 Singleton Mosby wrote:

My recipe for a Castellan:
- 10 tankbusta's in a Chinork. Bring it within 6
- Use strategem "Long uncontrolable bursts" on the Chinork
- Use extra Stikkbombs on the tankbustas"

10 x d3 rerollable shots which hit on a 4+ (3+ when Freetbootaz). d6 damage the piece will hurt the knight for sure.

Would this work?



Sure it hurts...Except it's illegal. No strategems can be used on units inside transport. Ergo you are throwing _one_ grenade.

Also last time I checked knights don't(luckily) fly so no +1 to hit either.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 13:06:04


Post by: oOSkyOo


 Singleton Mosby wrote:


My recipe for a Castellan:
- 10 tankbusta's in a Chinork. Bring it within 6
- Use strategem "Long uncontrolable bursts" on the Chinork
- Use extra Stikkbombs on the tankbustas"

10 x d3 rerollable shots which hit on a 4+ (3+ when Freetbootaz). d6 damage the piece will hurt the knight for sure.

Would this work?



Sorry, but you can't use Stratagems on units, inside Transporter. They count as not being on the playing field.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 14:03:55


Post by: BaconCatBug


Oh boy this argument again.

You're not using Long uncontrolable bursts on the unit inside. You're using Long uncontrolable bursts on the Chinork vehicle itself.

The Chinork has the Open Topped rule, which reads:
Open-topped: Models embarked on this model can attack in their Shooting phase. Measure the range and line of sight from any point on this model's base. When they do so, any restrictions or modifiers that apply to this model also apply to its passengers; for example, the passengers cannot shoot if this model has Fallen Back in the same turn, cannot shoot (except with Pistols) if this model is within 1" of an enemy unit, and so on. Note that passengers cannot shoot if this model Falls Back, even though the 'Chinork' Warkopta itself can.


The key term here is "When they do so, any restrictions or modifiers that apply to this model also apply to its passengers". What does LUB do? "Until the end of the phase, add 1 to hit rolls for shooting attacks made by that unit that target enemy units that can FLY." Oh look, the Chinork has a +1 to hit vs FLY enemies. Therefore the unit inside has +1 to hit vs FLY enemies due to the open top rule, because +1 to hit is, by definition, a modifier.

This is what the rules actually say, you're free to ignore them if you wish.

But as pointed out, Knights (thank the Manperor), cannot FLY. Not yet anyway.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 14:33:24


Post by: Booger ork


They were referring to the use of extra stikkbombs


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 14:34:59


Post by: BaconCatBug


Booger ork wrote:
They were referring to the use of extra stikkbombs
That makes more sense.

The "best" option orks have against a knight is to T1 clear out screens with Da Jumped Shoota Boyz or Dakkajets, then turn two Tellyport two max units of Tankbustas, Mob Up, More Dakka into Showin' Off. Yes, that's 9CP but it's the only way you'll even remotely come close to killing it. A single unit (for 6CP) simply won't cut the mustard.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 14:39:42


Post by: PiñaColada


I've said it before but I guess I'll say it again. AFAIK the only way to get a T1 "extra stikkbombs" on the tankbustas is by using the blitz brigade "hold on, boyz" strat to effectively get them up there. I'm fairly certain that would work since it's basically just embarking and disembarking a transport in the same turn and you wouldn't as such suffer the penalty for the transport having advanced since you're not on it at the time of firing.

Those tankbustas are deffo dead after that though


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 15:07:31


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


Im sure this has been covered but I cant find it anywhere with the search. Does the commandos "kunnin infiltrators" bypass the not until turn two deployment restriction? I want maximum threat overload with my evil sunz and looking for no CP spending ways to get orks in quick.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 15:19:59


Post by: Ilgoth


TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
Im sure this has been covered but I cant find it anywhere with the search. Does the commandos "kunnin infiltrators" bypass the not until turn two deployment restriction? I want maximum threat overload with my evil sunz and looking for no CP spending ways to get orks in quick.


No. Every unit that is not deployed on the battlefield during the set up, is in the reserves/reinforcements and none of those cannot arrive before battle round 2. This is to balance out heavy deep striking armies, otherwise they could always avoid damage for one full round.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 15:23:36


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


Ilgoth wrote:
TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
Im sure this has been covered but I cant find it anywhere with the search. Does the commandos "kunnin infiltrators" bypass the not until turn two deployment restriction? I want maximum threat overload with my evil sunz and looking for no CP spending ways to get orks in quick.


No. Every unit that is not deployed on the battlefield during the set up, is in the reserves/reinforcements and none of those cannot arrive before battle round 2. This is to balance out heavy deep striking armies, otherwise they could always avoid damage for one full round.


I figured as much. I think the only army that will not have this restriction is the new GSC. or so its rumored.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 15:55:08


Post by: flandarz


I never worry about killing a Knight. I generally just try to keep it busy while the rest of my army handles business. Deffkoptas are pretty cheap, can pass screens, and (with Evil Sunz) have a good chance to make it into CC. Take em in groups of 3, and you should be able to hold a Knight down for at least 3 rounds, giving you plenty of time to handle the chaff and gain VPs.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 16:53:09


Post by: Trimarius


 flandarz wrote:
I never worry about killing a Knight. I generally just try to keep it busy while the rest of my army handles business. Deffkoptas are pretty cheap, can pass screens, and (with Evil Sunz) have a good chance to make it into CC. Take em in groups of 3, and you should be able to hold a Knight down for at least 3 rounds, giving you plenty of time to handle the chaff and gain VPs.

How are you keeping them tied up for multiple turns, even with 3x3 deffkoptas? Knights can fall back and shoot without penalty, and even a castellan should be able to kick a kopta or two to death to open an escape route if you surround it.

If you really have it out for knights, just bring eighteen KMKs. Yeah, it's a thousand points, but that should one round a 3++ castellan (and the castellan's only going to kill a couple of them in return, assuming you don't have anything it wants to shoot more). Or just about kill two normal knights. I know smashas are all the rage, but KMKs are still more efficient against things with invuls.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 18:08:31


Post by: Castozor


Interesting report Tneva, thanks for that. Your boards seem similar to the ones I play on, lots of vehicle blocking terrain and LOS blocking. As such I'd like to ask you, can you see a vehicle heavy list perform well on such boards? I'm trying to build a mechanized ork list but even with only some vehicles and walkers I'm already having issues deploying and moving well. Half the board is practically off limits to my (atm sole) bonebreaka and even though the buggies are smaller once I have more I'll have issues. So any tips on how to play a list like that on boards like yours are welcome.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 18:48:35


Post by: flandarz


Maybe I just got lucky, but I usually managed to keep 2 around after that phase. And my opponent tends to deploy their Castellans to the back corner of the deployment zones, making 2 Koptas enough to keep it stuck in.

Gallants I actually worry a lot less about. We got a lot of hard-hitting CC options to handle them. I prefer Deffdreadz. 90 pts for 4 Sawz that'll be 6 Attacks, 3+WS, Wounding on 3s with decent AP and D.

The issue I see with the KMKs is finding space for them all. They have a sizable footprint.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 20:52:59


Post by: PiñaColada


I mean I guess that could happen Flandarz but I chalk that up to a unicorn type situation.

Just as an aside, I've never seen anyone bring 2 castellans in a single list, that seems like a way too singular focus and you're also missing out on all the other knight relics.

Facing 2 knights that are both so crammed into the corner that they can't back out 1" seems quite unlikely. That neither of them manages to smack a few deffkoptas out of the sky is also quite a gamble. This also means that your opponent has no counter-charge units in the area, since any dedicated melee combined with even a suboptimal melee knight should wreck a few deffkoptas. Could it happen? I guess, but tri-pointing knights will at most buy you a single round if you're lucky in most cases.

My big issue with the KMKs (which I do really like still, though I rarely bring more than 2 mek gunz) is the 36" range. I often want to use mek gunz to destroy my opponents backline, the units my T1 charges won't reach. 36" is often a tad short for that.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 20:59:03


Post by: flandarz


No. Sorry. Just one Castellan. They just deploy the guy to the corner, usually. So I can generally box them in with 2 Koptas, because of the oval (and large) base on the Castellan.

Yeah, it's a gamble. But, at the very least, it puts Koptas in the opponent's deployment zone, so they can't really just ignore them. They will need to devote resources to taking them down, which is resources they don't spend on other units.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/07 21:57:48


Post by: tneva82


 Castozor wrote:
Interesting report Tneva, thanks for that. Your boards seem similar to the ones I play on, lots of vehicle blocking terrain and LOS blocking. As such I'd like to ask you, can you see a vehicle heavy list perform well on such boards? I'm trying to build a mechanized ork list but even with only some vehicles and walkers I'm already having issues deploying and moving well. Half the board is practically off limits to my (atm sole) bonebreaka and even though the buggies are smaller once I have more I'll have issues. So any tips on how to play a list like that on boards like yours are welcome.


No idea seeing I play mostly footslogging. Certainly deepstriking 3xdeff dreads has been headache though which is why I'm starting to think going for 2 dread mobs instead.

OTOH good thing is plenty of room to hide those bonebreakers from shooting seeing how soft they tend to be these days.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/08 02:29:12


Post by: flaming tadpole


I don't think orks match up that bad to knights as long as you don't have anything worthwhile for them to shoot at. They're actually the only army I can think of that you can make where the knight player would have literally nothing worthwhile to shoot at. Just ignore it and kill everything else with your lootas/boyz and if and when the opportunity arises you can charge your smashboss in. In the meantime he can knock himself out firing all his expensive weapons at a bunch of boyz and grots with 5++.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/08 06:50:10


Post by: Weazel


Anyone else think that knights have absolutely ruined 40k? Luckily we don't play or even allow LoWs in our gaming circle but I think it's just so so sad that every discussion about tactics or whatever revolves around the question of "how does this work against knights?"


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/08 07:32:17


Post by: hortsmann


I wouldn't mind knights if they were actually vulnerable to AT weapons, as it would add the need for them in lists. But with the 3++, unless you can deal a bunch of mortal wounds (haywire), all they do is prevent other armies from playing multiwound models.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/08 07:44:34


Post by: Blackie


 Weazel wrote:
Anyone else think that knights have absolutely ruined 40k? Luckily we don't play or even allow LoWs in our gaming circle but I think it's just so so sad that every discussion about tactics or whatever revolves around the question of "how does this work against knights?"


I agree, but I'd also put some superheroes or combos with 2+ codexes in the same basket, not only knights. With my competitive group of friends we play full TAC lists with just two house rules, which deeply affects the meta, changing it completely: No soups, No LoWs. It works very well providing a farily balanced game. We allow LoWs and soups for casual players at the store, friendly open/narrative play or for arranging some games for those who want to practise for a tournament.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 flaming tadpole wrote:
I don't think orks match up that bad to knights as long as you don't have anything worthwhile for them to shoot at. They're actually the only army I can think of that you can make where the knight player would have literally nothing worthwhile to shoot at. Just ignore it and kill everything else with your lootas/boyz and if and when the opportunity arises you can charge your smashboss in. In the meantime he can knock himself out firing all his expensive weapons at a bunch of boyz and grots with 5++.


That's true but it's only that specific type of list that performs very well against knights, the green tide, and I can't stand it, I'd rather play another army than fielding 200 footsloggers divided into 2 units: boyz and gretchin. To me 55-60 boyz embarked in 3 BWs, which is the core of my favorite set up, are already an horde as many other armies bring just 15-30 troops


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/08 12:38:54


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


PiñaColada wrote:
I've said it before but I guess I'll say it again. AFAIK the only way to get a T1 "extra stikkbombs" on the tankbustas is by using the blitz brigade "hold on, boyz" strat to effectively get them up there. I'm fairly certain that would work since it's basically just embarking and disembarking a transport in the same turn and you wouldn't as such suffer the penalty for the transport having advanced since you're not on it at the time of firing.

Those tankbustas are deffo dead after that though


I don't worry about advancing and shooting assault weapons ( rokkits) I play evil sunz


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/08 12:42:30


Post by: PiñaColada


TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
I've said it before but I guess I'll say it again. AFAIK the only way to get a T1 "extra stikkbombs" on the tankbustas is by using the blitz brigade "hold on, boyz" strat to effectively get them up there. I'm fairly certain that would work since it's basically just embarking and disembarking a transport in the same turn and you wouldn't as such suffer the penalty for the transport having advanced since you're not on it at the time of firing.

Those tankbustas are deffo dead after that though


I don't worry about advancing and shooting assault weapons ( rokkits) I play evil sunz

I do as well, but you can't chuck grenades after advancing


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/09 03:16:36


Post by: Trimarius


 Weazel wrote:
Anyone else think that knights have absolutely ruined 40k? Luckily we don't play or even allow LoWs in our gaming circle but I think it's just so so sad that every discussion about tactics or whatever revolves around the question of "how does this work against knights?"

The discussion never revolves around knights, it revolves around one specific knight in one specific army: the super buffed raven castellan with cawl's wrath and the improved ion shields warlord trait utilizing the raven reroll ALL 1s strat and rotate ion shields strat every round that's sitting in the back of a guard army that feeds it CP and screens it. Add in some sort of flying murder-captains to taste.

That specific army combo is stupidly good, but it doesn't mean knights are broken as a whole any more than the various smash captains involved mean that Blood Angels or Custodes are broken as a whole. Actual knight armies are fine, and don't warp the meta any more than anyone else who brings a lot of armor or a lot of bodies. If I can make a game of it against an IK army with my silly all-melee Tyranid list, they aren't a real problem.

Banning an entire army and a whole class of model outright seems like a terribly destructive way of fixing the issue, like imposing a 40 model cap for every single army because conscripts+commissars were too good at launch. Why not just ban Cawl's Wrath, change the raven strat to be reroll 1s to hit, or just not allow CP sharing between codexes?

Orks have plenty of ways of dealing with them, too, with lots of surprisingly effective shooting options (I prefer mek gunz and freeboota tankbustas in transports, but there are so many choices), a suicide warboss that can reliably splat one, and whole builds that render that super-castellan completely worthless (enjoy your 600+ point army linchpin as it blast the absolute snot out of a couple boyz a turn).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/09 06:18:09


Post by: tneva82


So. After tournament over time to think up new concept to try for fun. As said NO LOOTAS WHATSOEVER! Not that they are good but them being core of army from the day 1 of codex change of pace and that dice roooooooolling! My wrist becomes tired ;-)

So. Let's go for some speed instead. Keep in mind casual enviroments so worst of cheese combo's shouldn't be worry. Also as usual index banned.

Battallion: Evil sunz

warboss(brutal but kunning, killa klaw, kustom shoota)
deffkilla

30xboyz(nob w/klaw)
10xboyz(nob w/big choppa)
10xgretchin
10xnob(4xbig choppa&choppa, 1xpower klaw&choppa, 5xdouble choppa)
nob w/waagh banner
bonebreaker

Battallion: death skull

big mek w/shock attack gun
badrukk

3x10 grots
15xtank busta+1xbomb squig
battlewagon

Battallion: goff

warboss(power klaw, kustom shoota)
weirdboy(da jump)

30xboyz(nob w/power klaw)
2x10gretchin

Bonebreaka and deffkilla aim for T1 charge, evil sun boyz mobbed and da jumped ditto. Skarboyz coming T2 with da jump(hopefully). Wish I Could find points for 2nd da jump weirdboy.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/09 08:16:16


Post by: Blackie


Do you usually have your weirdboy with da jump killed in first or second turn? I've always though two psykers with da jump were redundant and never wanted to field a second one as he always survives till half game at least. After all da jump is usually useless after 2nd turn or 3rd turn at most.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/09 08:55:14


Post by: tneva82


 Blackie wrote:
Do you usually have your weirdboy with da jump killed in first or second turn? I've always though two psykers with da jump were redundant and never wanted to field a second one as he always survives till half game at least. After all da jump is usually useless after 2nd turn or 3rd turn at most.


a) snipers. Even 1 wound makes it risky. Afterall peril+3 wounds from d3=da jump fails.
b) one place where 2 big mobs can hide out of LOS is harder even here than 2 different locations for 1 mob. One weirdboy might not be able to be able to reach both AND keep boyz out of LOS.
c) perils. If I don't have + modifiers it's 58%. Ergo I can't count on getting both off in 2 turns. Even both failing to go in first 2 turns isn't that unlikely(bit more than 1/6 odds). If I have plus modifiers he suffers perils more often and if he suffers perils he averages 2 wounds. Another peril and he dies. Ergo this adds yet more chances for da jump on turn 2 fail.

I usually have 2 da jumps specifically because I find 1 not be reliable enough. AND I usually use it in every turn. If nothing else than to reposition himself for next turn/objective grabber.

It's not so much as he gets flat out killed all the time turn 1 but that his reliability after first turn usually drops down. Not to mention the LOS issue and if the boyz are visible they can get vaporized easily before they get da jumped.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/09 10:51:31


Post by: JawRippa


1). This is pretty much everything I have on my hands assembled and painted. Could you help me to organise a list out of this? My group won't mind against index too much.
2). Which klan would you run with this list? I'm feeling like it'd be okay with Freeboota.
3). Is it a stupid idea to run this as a battalion at this ammount of points if I get it all out? I lack third HQ model.
4). That x30 boy blob is magnetised, I can have either shootas or choppas if I want. What is better here?
5). I'm still assembling nobz, so I could change their wargear if current one is lacking.

Spoiler:
Battalion (1449pt.):

HQ [2]

Warboss (82pt.) Powerklaw, Kombishoota
Weirdboy (62pt.)

Troops [4]

30x - Boyz (298pt.)
> 27x - Boys choppa/slugga
> 2x - Boys big shoota
> 1x - Nob PK/slugga

10x - Boyz (70pt.)
> 9x - Boys shootas
> 1x - Nob Choppa/slugga

10x - Boyz choppa/slugga (75pt.)
> 9x - Boys choppa/slugga
> 1x - Nob Big choppa

10x - Gretchin (30pt.)

Elites [4]

5x - Kommando (40pt.)
> 2x - Kommando choppa/slugga
> 2x - Kommando burna
> 1x - KNob choppa/slugga

1x Painboy (67pt.) Killsaw

1x Nob with Banner (79pt.) Kustom shoota

x10 Nobz (262pt.)

> 4x - Nobz choppa/slugga
> 3x - Nobz Big choppa
> 3x - Nobz PK
> 2x - Ammo Runt
> 1x - Truk big shoota (64pt.)

Fast attack [2]

1x Shokkjump Dragsta (108 pt.)

6x Warbikers (156pt.)
> 4x - biker boyz
> 1x - Nob PK
> 1x - Nob Big choppa

Heavy support [1]

5x Big gunz (125pt.)
> 5x - kannon


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/09 11:44:23


Post by: tneva82


Too little guns for freeboota. Kannon kills something. Fine. What utilizes the +1 to hit?

Evil sun looks like obvious one but keep in mind one unit of 10 boyz is pretty pointless there. One can be merged, one is sitting duck.

Would drop one ammo runt from nobz and have warboss in there. What he's going to do? Big mob of orks should be da jumping forward(if they try foot slogging they are dead) so you have warboss running forward on foot...sloooow!

For nobz squad add choppa's to big choppas and pk models. +1 attack in h2h is more useful than pistol. Ditto for sluggas. Double choppa better than slugga and choppa.

If you had 3rd HQ you could put him, kannons and dragsta into spearhead deathskull. Dragsta benefits nicely from deathskull bonus. Also extra CP. Albeit extra HQ is bit pricey here.

For big blop I would mix it. With 30 models + 10 mobbed up you have generally waaaaay too many choppas to reach all into h2h and even pistol range is harder. some shootas to clear chaff/finish near dead units goes around nicely. 10 shootas or so isn't bad. With 2 big shootas 8 shoota boyz, 29 choppa boyz, nob and 2 big shootas.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/09 12:02:27


Post by: JawRippa


Thanks! I'll make sure to change nobz loadout.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/09 12:37:35


Post by: PiñaColada


 JawRippa wrote:
1). This is pretty much everything I have on my hands assembled and painted. Could you help me to organise a list out of this? My group won't mind against index too much.
2). Which klan would you run with this list? I'm feeling like it'd be okay with Freeboota.
3). Is it a stupid idea to run this as a battalion at this ammount of points if I get it all out? I lack third HQ model.
4). That x30 boy blob is magnetised, I can have either shootas or choppas if I want. What is better here?
5). I'm still assembling nobz, so I could change their wargear if current one is lacking.

Spoiler:
Battalion (1449pt.):

HQ [2]

Warboss (82pt.) Powerklaw, Kombishoota
Weirdboy (62pt.)

Troops [4]

30x - Boyz (298pt.)
> 27x - Boys choppa/slugga
> 2x - Boys big shoota
> 1x - Nob PK/slugga

10x - Boyz (70pt.)
> 9x - Boys shootas
> 1x - Nob Choppa/slugga

10x - Boyz choppa/slugga (75pt.)
> 9x - Boys choppa/slugga
> 1x - Nob Big choppa

10x - Gretchin (30pt.)

Elites [4]

5x - Kommando (40pt.)
> 2x - Kommando choppa/slugga
> 2x - Kommando burna
> 1x - KNob choppa/slugga

1x Painboy (67pt.) Killsaw

1x Nob with Banner (79pt.) Kustom shoota

x10 Nobz (262pt.)

> 4x - Nobz choppa/slugga
> 3x - Nobz Big choppa
> 3x - Nobz PK
> 2x - Ammo Runt
> 1x - Truk big shoota (64pt.)

Fast attack [2]

1x Shokkjump Dragsta (108 pt.)

6x Warbikers (156pt.)
> 4x - biker boyz
> 1x - Nob PK
> 1x - Nob Big choppa

Heavy support [1]

5x Big gunz (125pt.)
> 5x - kannon

Just a quick couple of points regarding ...sigh.. points.
The waaagh banner nob is 77 (75+2)
The shokkjump dragsta is 120 (108 + 12 for the rokkit launcha)
Remember to put tankbusta bombs on your boyz (both in lists and on actual models)
You can't put in 2 biker nobz in a normal warbiker unit, you have enough for 2 units though.

I agree with Tneva that Evil sunz are a pretty good fit for what you have, and that switching out sluggas for extra choppas is worth doing every place you can. I'd get another weirdboy and 2 squads of boyz/grots though so you can get 2 battalions. If you want to do a freeboota list then both detachments should be freebootaz to get maximum mileage out of that trait IMO. I'd also get some actual Flash Gitz then as well, since they "belong" in such a list (just for fluff purposes if nothing else).

There are some interesting stacking moves you could do with freebootas + waaagh banner nob. If you manage to smack something in CC you can have MANZ with killsaws hitting on 2's. It all sort of depends where you want to go with this list.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/09 21:03:17


Post by: TheunlikelyGamer


So I have a casual 2k 2v2 Xenos vs imperium game Friday. And the list I want to try for funsises revolves around Goff assault force supported by badmoons lootas and my dark eldar ally. I was thinking of getting rid of the bad moons and adding my evil sunz for some earlier charges. I want to dajump the skarboyz and probably deepstrike ghaz with the grots shielding the nobz. If I cast FOG and warpath on ghaz he would have 10 attacks on the charge at S14 -4 dmg 3 with exploding 6s and boosting his 5s to 6s with the lucky stikk. What do you guys think? Should I put in some evil sunz bikes or deep strike evil sunz meganobz?
[spoiler]
++ Patrol Detachment (Orks) [40 PL, 670pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Goffs

+ HQ +

Ghazghkull Thraka [12 PL, 235pts]: Warlord

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 2. Warpath, 4. Fists of Gork, Warphead (1 CP) Da Lucky stikk

+ Troops +

Boyz [11 PL, 215pts]: Skarboyz (1 CP), 3x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

+ Elites +

Nobz [14 PL, 158pts]: 2x Ammo Runt
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa

++ Patrol Detachment (Orks) [17 PL, 330pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Bad Moons

+ HQ +

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 2. Warpath, Warphead (1 CP)

+ Troops +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

+ Heavy Support +

Lootas [13 PL, 238pts]: 14x Loota

++ Total: [57 PL, 1000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/10 00:44:54


Post by: Trimarius


JawRippa wrote:1). This is pretty much everything I have on my hands assembled and painted. Could you help me to organise a list out of this? My group won't mind against index too much.
2). Which klan would you run with this list? I'm feeling like it'd be okay with Freeboota.
3). Is it a stupid idea to run this as a battalion at this ammount of points if I get it all out? I lack third HQ model.
4). That x30 boy blob is magnetised, I can have either shootas or choppas if I want. What is better here?
5). I'm still assembling nobz, so I could change their wargear if current one is lacking.

Spoiler:
Battalion (1449pt.):

HQ [2]

Warboss (82pt.) Powerklaw, Kombishoota
Weirdboy (62pt.)

Troops [4]

30x - Boyz (298pt.)
> 27x - Boys choppa/slugga
> 2x - Boys big shoota
> 1x - Nob PK/slugga

10x - Boyz (70pt.)
> 9x - Boys shootas
> 1x - Nob Choppa/slugga

10x - Boyz choppa/slugga (75pt.)
> 9x - Boys choppa/slugga
> 1x - Nob Big choppa

10x - Gretchin (30pt.)

Elites [4]

5x - Kommando (40pt.)
> 2x - Kommando choppa/slugga
> 2x - Kommando burna
> 1x - KNob choppa/slugga

1x Painboy (67pt.) Killsaw

1x Nob with Banner (79pt.) Kustom shoota

x10 Nobz (262pt.)

> 4x - Nobz choppa/slugga
> 3x - Nobz Big choppa
> 3x - Nobz PK
> 2x - Ammo Runt
> 1x - Truk big shoota (64pt.)

Fast attack [2]

1x Shokkjump Dragsta (108 pt.)

6x Warbikers (156pt.)
> 4x - biker boyz
> 1x - Nob PK
> 1x - Nob Big choppa

Heavy support [1]

5x Big gunz (125pt.)
> 5x - kannon


If you're running anything but the smallest games, you'll probably want either two battalions (which means two more HQs and some more troops, probably grots) or a brigade (which would take the same troops, but only one more HQ). What size of army were you looking at getting together? 1000?

You could always take your two biker nobz and give them some fancy bling (if they don't have it already) and call them warbosses? The PK bikerboss with the relic claw is a great little missile and will kill whatever he hits. I'd probably spend the CP for the relic big choppa, too, just to give the second guy a bit of punch. That does leave you without enough bikers to split, though, so you'd need another FA slot to run a brigade (right now you could run 2x3 bikes to get to your requisite three slots).

Also, just from an efficiency point of view, those big gunz are pretty awful these days. GW nerfed them hard. I'd leave them on the shelf unless people there are cool with you proxy-ing them as mek gunz (in which case, do that).



TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
Spoiler:
So I have a casual 2k 2v2 Xenos vs imperium game Friday. And the list I want to try for funsises revolves around Goff assault force supported by badmoons lootas and my dark eldar ally. I was thinking of getting rid of the bad moons and adding my evil sunz for some earlier charges. I want to dajump the skarboyz and probably deepstrike ghaz with the grots shielding the nobz. If I cast FOG and warpath on ghaz he would have 10 attacks on the charge at S14 -4 dmg 3 with exploding 6s and boosting his 5s to 6s with the lucky stikk. What do you guys think? Should I put in some evil sunz bikes or deep strike evil sunz meganobz?
[spoiler]
++ Patrol Detachment (Orks) [40 PL, 670pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Goffs

+ HQ +

Ghazghkull Thraka [12 PL, 235pts]: Warlord

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 2. Warpath, 4. Fists of Gork, Warphead (1 CP) Da Lucky stikk

+ Troops +

Boyz [11 PL, 215pts]: Skarboyz (1 CP), 3x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

+ Elites +

Nobz [14 PL, 158pts]: 2x Ammo Runt
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa

++ Patrol Detachment (Orks) [17 PL, 330pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Bad Moons

+ HQ +

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 2. Warpath, Warphead (1 CP)

+ Troops +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

+ Heavy Support +

Lootas [13 PL, 238pts]: 14x Loota

++ Total: [57 PL, 1000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

You should really combine those into at least one battalion, just for the CP. Badmoons are only really good for the loota bomb, and that requires a ton of CP (you have zero at the start of the game right now) and a bunch of grots to shield the lootas. With the size of the game and what you want to run, I just don't think you can fit both the goffs and the badmoons in and have either work. You'll have to choose one and run with it, either swapping the lootas for more melee threats or dropping the nobz for a bunch of badmoon grots (and put the second weirdboy in there, too, to make a battalion).

Either way, you definitely want CP. Orks really love their strats.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/10 01:53:51


Post by: Grimskul


Has anyone had any good ideas for what a Blood Axe list would be focused on? I've basically gone through all the major clans listbuilding and gaming wise so far except Snakebites, Freebootas and Blood Axes, and I want to try out Blood Axes next.

Bonebreaka battlewagons seem to be pretty good since you get to make the most mileage out of the extra D6 damage from being able to fall back and charge again. Similarly, stormboyz (fittingly) are then able to really cheese with guys who try to screen by potentially flying past them and charging into more opportune targets. Tankbustas are also good in the sense that for only 1 CP we can deepstrike them and not need transports, while also having enough protection and tactical placement to have the best shot at taking out ideal targets. The only other unit that comes to mind that would benefit from Blood Axes are Deffkoptas (at least for brigades) and the Deffkilla Wartrike. So the question is would it better to go for a Blood Axe Battlewagon oriented list or an infantry heavy one?

My list is aimed at 1500 points btw. I'll probably have one cooked up by tomorrow.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/10 02:15:46


Post by: JimOnMars


 Grimskul wrote:
Has anyone had any good ideas for what a Blood Axe list would be focused on? I've basically gone through all the major clans listbuilding and gaming wise so far except Snakebites, Freebootas and Blood Axes, and I want to try out Blood Axes next.

Bonebreaka battlewagons seem to be pretty good since you get to make the most mileage out of the extra D6 damage from being able to fall back and charge again. Similarly, stormboyz (fittingly) are then able to really cheese with guys who try to screen by potentially flying past them and charging into more opportune targets. Tankbustas are also good in the sense that for only 1 CP we can deepstrike them and not need transports, while also having enough protection and tactical placement to have the best shot at taking out ideal targets. The only other unit that comes to mind that would benefit from Blood Axes are Deffkoptas (at least for brigades) and the Deffkilla Wartrike. So the question is would it better to go for a Blood Axe Battlewagon oriented list or an infantry heavy one?

My list is aimed at 1500 points btw. I'll probably have one cooked up by tomorrow.
The cover rule is a small benefit to Trukks, tankbustas and lootas. Everyone complains about the 18" minimum range but I've found it helpful, especially on trukks. Not against lascannons, of course, but the 3+ trukk is fun.

Nobs are especially nice after Loot It!, giving them 2+ from long range things.

The fallback and charge is awesome on scrapjets and BWs, but also Trukks. Most opponents forget they have it and can really gak with them if they are not on their toes.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/10 09:42:45


Post by: JawRippa


Thanks a lot for the responses! I'll get to fixing points.

I guess I could proxy Nob banner as a big choppa warboss since he is a custom made one and has sufficient bling, thus turning it into a brigade. (probably I'll have to get 10 more grots then). I think I'll stick to 1000 or 1250ish for now.

Few more questions:
1). What units would you get to make Freeboota kultur more appealing apart from flashgits? I've always been a fan of shooty orks.
2). What loadout would you run on truk nobz, apart for "mandatory" choppa+choppa for ablative wounds nobz?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/10 12:59:57


Post by: Jidmah


 Grimskul wrote:
Has anyone had any good ideas for what a Blood Axe list would be focused on? I've basically gone through all the major clans listbuilding and gaming wise so far except Snakebites, Freebootas and Blood Axes, and I want to try out Blood Axes next.

My orks are painted as Blood Axes, so I have not played any other culture so far. Be prepared to be disappointed though.

In detail:
Bonebreaka battlewagons seem to be pretty good since you get to make the most mileage out of the extra D6 damage from being able to fall back and charge again. Similarly, stormboyz (fittingly) are then able to really cheese with guys who try to screen by potentially flying past them and charging into more opportune targets.

In multiple games I have yet to use this part of the culture efficiently for anything but buggies or koptas. You will only ever be making that decision after something has been stuck in combat with you during their turn. For boyz, bonebreakers, storm boyz, nobz, warbikers and many other units this means either they have charged, so the unit was wiped out or fell back during their turn so they can shoot you/not get mulched in combat. Or they have charged you, which means that your unit is most likely dead or dying. Falling back with a bonebreaker on two wounds doesn't actually yield a lot of advantages - usually you want to stay in combat so you don't lose your last two wounds to overwatch.
It's nice for buggies (tested with kustom burna blasters and shokkjump dragsta) since those don't actually have the fighting power to wipe out units in combat, but are durable enough to tie down units you don't want to shoot or charge during their next turn.
It also works well for koptas, as it allows them to shoot and assault after falling back. Fall back, shoot rokkit at a hard target, charge back into the unit you were locking down.
Nobz can benefit from this when they in your opponent's backfield - charge some blocking vehicle like a rhino and instead of getting stuck to it for two turns, fall back and charge around it next turn.
Nauts might benefit, but I haven't tried any yet.

Tankbustas are also good in the sense that for only 1 CP we can deepstrike them and not need transports, while also having enough protection and tactical placement to have the best shot at taking out ideal targets.

There are two more things that can be hidden away:
1) Units of 20 boyz. Combine with a deff kopta that can deep strike naturally to eat overwatch and benefit from green tide in combat. In a recent game I had a flank collapse during turn 2, next turn I deep struck two units of 20 boyz there, jumped another unit there and green tided a third one. Suddenly the harlequins that overextended to wipe out two battlewagons there found themselves surrounded by 80+ boyz and three koptas. He basically lost the game right there.
2) Characters. Banner nob, warboss or KFF mek can basically anywhere you need them. Even if they don't make their charges, doing a surprise advance+charge, having some unit hit a lot harder than expected or repairing and protecting a bonebreaker, deff dread or other vehicle can throw a bone into your enemy's plans. Hiding weird boyz is not advised since you are wasting the turn 1 smite.
For extra sneaky gits, give your banner nob the finkin' cap and the "Follow me, ladz!" warlord trait and have instant tripple-aura character wherever you need it.

A bloodaxe battalion with 3x 20 boyz and two characters can hide all of its members for +- 0 CP.

Something you have not addressed is the cover save, but for good reason. In my experience, it basically does nothing unless you are shot by krak missiles. Anything else either punches through armor anyways, does mortal wounds or is shooting from within 18".

The only other unit that comes to mind that would benefit from Blood Axes are Deffkoptas (at least for brigades) and the Deffkilla Wartrike. So the question is would it better to go for a Blood Axe Battlewagon oriented list or an infantry heavy one?

I had the most success with a deep-strike heavy set-up, with two deff dreads in the tellyporta, three units of boyz, tank bustas and the finkin cap+banner nob hiding and some koptas on the flanks. Combined with green tide and da jump you can have an entire army popping wherever you need it.
The rest of the army is made up of durable units like battlewagons with nobz inside and planes plus gretchin or boyz covering your backfield (5+ in the open) with a KFF of some sort (naut/mek/wazzbom) so you don't face wipe-out turn one.

The sad thruth is that any army you could think up would be better by just fielding it as Evil Suns or Deff Skulls instead of Blood Axes.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/10 13:23:44


Post by: tneva82


 Jidmah wrote:
1) Units of 20 boyz. Combine with a deff kopta that can deep strike naturally to eat overwatch and benefit from green tide in combat. In a recent game I had a flank collapse during turn 2, next turn I deep struck two units of 20 boyz there, jumped another unit there and green tided a third one. Suddenly the harlequins that overextended to wipe out two battlewagons there found themselves surrounded by 80+ boyz and three koptas. He basically lost the game right there.


Wait are you saying to use deep striking dethkoptas to eat overwatch so deep striking blood axe boyz could charge without overwatch? Unless death kopta is separate detchment for evil sun you have like 1/3 of those boyz making charge like that. Other times either kopta ends up charging alone or boyz charge without kopta.

Even with evil sun kopta it's still less than half the time...

Much more reliable to have either non deep striking kopta(to make 4-6" charge) or bigger mob of boyz so 1 casualty isn't too much of a worry.

Hiding weird boyz is not advised since you are wasting the turn 1 smite.


I rarely get chance for turn 1 smite even if I put him on front line. With average threat range of 26.5" range is generally too short by 1-2 inch.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/10 17:29:10


Post by: Levski


 JawRippa wrote:

Few more questions:
1). What units would you get to make Freeboota kultur more appealing apart from flashgits? I've always been a fan of shooty orks.


I find Freebootas to be the most interesting Kultur, as it has the potential to bring orks up to IG and Tau level of firepower. I have been thinking about how best to optimise a FB list so i'll list my thoughts on their best units below along with some math (Disclaimer - i am not a math man and am happy to be disproven. I have based the percentages on shots hit relative to shots fired, factoring in DDD )

- Flash Gitz. The obvious one, a base 4+ base increases to 3+. A 4+ base and DD results in 58.33% hits. So a squad of 10 flash gitz can expect just over 17.49 hits from 30 shots. However if they are buffed with +1 to hit the percentage goes to 77.77% (23 hits from 30 - better than base 3+). I have also ignore the kaptin (better base BS) and ammo runts in these calcs so they will be slightly better. Finally, add in Kaptin Badrukk to supavize the gitz and the hit calcs go up to 92.9% with the rr1s

- Dakkajets. another unit with technically a base 4+, so similar calcs as above. a weapon profile that is strong against T3 low sv chaff and MSU units. A good unit to procc the FB kultur

- Tankbustas. Already a strong unit under any kultur thanks to the built in re-rolls, this arguably becomes even stronger when given a +1 to hit as well, as you increase the chances of hitting, re-hitting and triggering DDD twice. Math is shaky on this one, but i have it down as 93.75% hits vs vehicles at BS 4+ - very accurate!

- Mek guns, don't benefit from the kultur but useful for procuring it. Standard back line of smashas and traktros probably most useful.

- Shokk Attack Gun Mek. (with Da souped up shokka, Big killa boss WL trait and Kustom ammo strat). the listed requiremetns are needed to make this truly viable, but you end up with a FB warlord who can happily sit safe backfield, shoot 4D6 shots at Bs 4+ once youve procc'd and with decent rolling can be wounding on 3 or 2s. This can roughly do 14 dmg to T7 vehicles, so good chance to one shot anything without a inv save.

- DakkaDakkaDakka special rule becomes much stronger the better your Bs is. Extra shots are always generated at the same rate, but these shots have a much better chance of actually hitting, its one of the main reasons some of the calcs for freebootas and tankbustas are so high, compared with re-rolls.

- Both tankbustas and Flash gitz need a trukk/battlewagon and potentially a KFF support to make them truly survivable, so thats added pt tax

Honourable mentions
- Lootas, shoota boyz.. Can be useful when buffed to 4+, but are not particularly effective without. ( or bad moonz strats)
- Scrapjet and dragsta. I haven't really considered these units too much. i don't think they are the ideal unit to be used as they are outperfromed by FB tankbustas

Random thought - Tau are one of orks more difficult math ups, but their drones usually act as individual units once on the field. Logic suggests that killing just one drone will procure the FB buff.

My current list is as follows and aims to saturate higher toughness. boyz in battlewagons to rush forward and soak fire, while bustas and freebootas move up in trukks midfield then start dakka'rin:
Spoiler:
Freebootas 2000

Freebootas Battalion

Kaptin Badruk 84
Ammo runt 4

Big Mek 55
KFF 20

20 Grotz 60

20 Choppa boyz 140

20 Choppa boyz 140

10 Flashgitz 300

10 Tankbustas 170
2 Bomb squigs 20

Trukk 64

Trukk 64

10 Lootas 170

Dakkajet 148

Dakkajet 148

Freebootas Spearhead (Dread Mob)

Big Mek SAG (KbB) 80
Da Souped up Shokka

3 Mek Guns (Smashas) 93

Battlewagon 120

Battlewagon 120


This is all theory crafting, i have flash gitz and other bits on order, so im keen to start testing it out. If it fails then i'll give an orky sigh and pull out my 200 boyz and revert to Evil suns boyz rush :{


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/10 18:41:34


Post by: flaming tadpole


Ya I really hope they give flash gitz at least a 5 pt decrease in the next chapter approved, an 8 pt decrease is what they really need, but I'll take what I can get. They're my favorite unit and I've been waiting like 4 editions for them to finally be viable :(


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/10 19:49:39


Post by: tneva82


Something to note with FB is that it helps h2h as well. However as you need 1 unit to destroy something for others to work few units isn't really good idea. Reversed going for freeboota h2h with idea of hitting on 2+'s is then hurt by few shooty elements. In general you should either go all in with freebootas(if you want some h2h elements have them be non-FB) or have decent mix of both. Something like 90% shoota, 10% h2h is pretty bad deal. 60/40 would be lot better.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/11 00:58:48


Post by: Jidmah


tneva82 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
1) Units of 20 boyz. Combine with a deff kopta that can deep strike naturally to eat overwatch and benefit from green tide in combat. In a recent game I had a flank collapse during turn 2, next turn I deep struck two units of 20 boyz there, jumped another unit there and green tided a third one. Suddenly the harlequins that overextended to wipe out two battlewagons there found themselves surrounded by 80+ boyz and three koptas. He basically lost the game right there.


Wait are you saying to use deep striking dethkoptas to eat overwatch so deep striking blood axe boyz could charge without overwatch? Unless death kopta is separate detchment for evil sun you have like 1/3 of those boyz making charge like that. Other times either kopta ends up charging alone or boyz charge without kopta.

Even with evil sun kopta it's still less than half the time...

Multiple koptas can charge one target, so the chance is decent of not eating overwatch. If the boyz mob doesn't succeed charging afterwards isn't too terrible since you are not taking overwatch for trying to do so.

Much more reliable to have either non deep striking kopta(to make 4-6" charge) or bigger mob of boyz so 1 casualty isn't too much of a worry.

Blood axe stratagem ist useless for more than 20 boyz.

Hiding weird boyz is not advised since you are wasting the turn 1 smite.


I rarely get chance for turn 1 smite even if I put him on front line. With average threat range of 26.5" range is generally too short by 1-2 inch.


I'm playing death guard, daemons, sisters and harlequins a lot lately. Those armies don't do jack outside of 26.5" range.

If you are expecting to see loyal 32 and a castellan, the only true advice is to not play blood axes, ever.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/11 02:15:03


Post by: Grimskul


Thanks Jidmah and JimonMars for your input! I'll definitely have 20 man boyz squads added to my list. It's too bad to hear that Blood Axes aren't as competitive as the mainstays of Deffskullz and Evil Sunz, but I guess fluffwise it makes sense that they're more tactical to play with. I kinda want to try out Burna Boyz with them, since they're one of the few units that want to burninate after falling back with a transport, but they're still so lacklustre there's basically no point :(

Here's my rough draft of the list so far:


Spoiler:
Blood Axe Brigade

HQ - 215

Big Mek on Foot with KFF - 75

Warboss with the Killa Klaw - 78

Weirdboy with Da Jump - 62

Troops - 525

10 Gretchin - 30

10 Gretchin - 30

10 Gretchin - 30

20 Boyz with Nob + Big Choppa - 145

20 Boyz with Nob + Big Choppa - 145

20 Boyz with Nob + Big Choppa - 145

Elites - 368

10 Tankbustas with Nob - 170

7 Nobz, 4 with Double Choppas, 2 with Big Choppas, 1 with P.K. - 121

WAAAAGH! Banner Nob with Finkin Kap - 77

Fast Attack - 190

Deffkopta with Twin Big Shootas - 40

Deffkopta with Twin Big Shootas - 40

Megatrakk Skrapjet - 110

Heavy Support - 201

Battlewagon with Deff Rolla and Ard Case - 139

Smasha Gun - 31

Smasha Gun - 31


My main issue right now is that the battlewagon kinda sticks out like a sore thumb in the list, its basically the only target for anti-vehicle and I'd have to hide it T1 until my reinforcements arrive. I only really included it since I really want to try out battlewagons right now. If I were to make a more battlewagon oriented, should I just make it two battalions and cut down on the fast attack?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/11 04:32:42


Post by: Clang


Speaking of battlewagons, have people tried a 9 wagon list (3 Bone Breakas, 3 plain BWs and 3 gunwagons, I believe allowed even under 'rule of 3' restrictions as they have separate codex entries)?

It would _look_ super-cool, and many opposing armies would have trouble stopping that much armour, but is it actually a viable army? What units would you put in the wagons, and what other supporting units would the army need?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/11 04:39:34


Post by: cody.d.


Speaking of battlewagons, have people tried a 9 wagon list (3 Bone Breakas, 3 plain BWs and 3 gunwagons, I believe allowed even under 'rule of 3' restrictions as they have separate codex entries)?

It would _look_ super-cool, and many opposing armies would have trouble stopping that much armour, but is it actually a viable army? What units would you put in the wagons, and what other supporting units would the army need?


I feel you may have some success with 3 bonebreakers and 3 plain battlewagons. Having shooty in the wagons and choppy in the breakers. Though it feels like you pay so much for to little with the gunwagons. Back it up with bike KFF meks and perhaps some scrapjets and most knights and harly bike spam would have to work hard to chew through it all before it slams home.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/11 06:30:10


Post by: tneva82


 Jidmah wrote:

Multiple koptas can charge one target, so the chance is decent of not eating overwatch. If the boyz mob doesn't succeed charging afterwards isn't too terrible since you are not taking overwatch for trying to do so.


So now you are sinking more points, limiting it to basically one due to rule of 3 and if boyz fail it those koptas die on their own. And still about once in six your boyz are charging without kopta's anyway unless you go for max 3. Which truly makes this work only for 1 unit and costs around 120 pts more. When you could just have taken 30 boyz and have better unit with more reliability and pay less points.

Blood axe stratagem ist useless for more than 20 boyz.


Luckily being blood axe doesn't mean you can't use the other strategem eh then? Or not take blood axe to begin with.



I'm playing death guard, daemons, sisters and harlequins a lot lately. Those armies don't do jack outside of 26.5" range.


But they can move out of that range. Idea isn't to stay there. Idea is to prevent opponent from screwing them if they get first turn(and now you even know it when deploying) by shooting/casting/doing T1 charges. Once your turn is done they are in position to move forward and do as planned. Why would they give you free chance to smite when they can prevent it with no cost for them...Well of course if you play against bad players fine but I don't count on that.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/11 07:46:54


Post by: Blackie


Levski wrote:


My current list is as follows and aims to saturate higher toughness. boyz in battlewagons to rush forward and soak fire, while bustas and freebootas move up in trukks midfield then start dakka'rin:
Spoiler:
Freebootas 2000

Freebootas Battalion

Kaptin Badruk 84
Ammo runt 4

Big Mek 55
KFF 20

20 Grotz 60

20 Choppa boyz 140

20 Choppa boyz 140

10 Flashgitz 300

10 Tankbustas 170
2 Bomb squigs 20

Trukk 64

Trukk 64

10 Lootas 170

Dakkajet 148

Dakkajet 148

Freebootas Spearhead (Dread Mob)

Big Mek SAG (KbB) 80
Da Souped up Shokka

3 Mek Guns (Smashas) 93

Battlewagon 120

Battlewagon 120


This is all theory crafting, i have flash gitz and other bits on order, so im keen to start testing it out. If it fails then i'll give an orky sigh and pull out my 200 boyz and revert to Evil suns boyz rush :{


I'd suggest splitting the 10 man squad of flash gitz into 2x5 with 2 ammo runts. This way you get 2 katpins and 2 additional re-roll. I'd add a warboss, rather than a big mek. The one with da killa klaw is also quite good on triggering the +1 to hit for boyz in combat.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/11 08:36:51


Post by: tneva82


Another bonus: Less issues with morale with 2x5. Are there any strategems flash gits would like to use? Those encourage deathstar style aka 25 lootas but don't recall top of my head anything flash gits would be dying to use. More dakka if facing -1 or more when you need to move in range but that's rather specific case...

edit: Grot screen. That's the one purpose to have 10 unit. With 2x5 you will get unit of 5 wiped out without grot screens to help them. Another would be loot it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/11 09:42:41


Post by: PiñaColada


 Clang wrote:
Speaking of battlewagons, have people tried a 9 wagon list (3 Bone Breakas, 3 plain BWs and 3 gunwagons, I believe allowed even under 'rule of 3' restrictions as they have separate codex entries)?

It would _look_ super-cool, and many opposing armies would have trouble stopping that much armour, but is it actually a viable army? What units would you put in the wagons, and what other supporting units would the army need?

The gunwagons are a tough sell to be honest. They're just stuck in a weird role of transport and slow-moving, short ranged gunboat. Now if FW ever got off their hands and gave the battlewagon with supa-kannon (technically a different datasheet as well) the base point drop that battlewagons got then they would at least become a somewhat viable alternative to tankbustas in trukks.

But technically the bonebreakas and three battlewagons with deffrolla could be really strong, if you're playing on a big plains board. Terrain (especially ruins) would shut that list down hard.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/11 10:00:51


Post by: tneva82


 Clang wrote:
Speaking of battlewagons, have people tried a 9 wagon list (3 Bone Breakas, 3 plain BWs and 3 gunwagons, I believe allowed even under 'rule of 3' restrictions as they have separate codex entries)?

It would _look_ super-cool, and many opposing armies would have trouble stopping that much armour, but is it actually a viable army? What units would you put in the wagons, and what other supporting units would the army need?


Problem is going to be a) you are spending lots of points on transports without points to fill with worthwhile stuff b) you need 9 HS slots. Either 3 battallions at which point all those HQ's and troop slots are going to be pain or bat+spearhead which leaves you thin on CP's.

9 BW, 9x10 grots(minimum troops for 3 bat), 3xwarboss and 3xweirdboy(among cheapest HQ's) and you are already nearly looking at 2k.

Even trimming down to bat+spearhead you are looking at around 1600 pts...

As it is just the wagons are 1302 pts MINIMUM(no upgrades) and empty standard bw with no upgrades...Is not a threat.

Too expensive in points for 2k. Need more points like 3k to fill them with something worthwhile.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PiñaColada wrote:
But technically the bonebreakas and three battlewagons with deffrolla could be really strong, if you're playing on a big plains board. Terrain (especially ruins) would shut that list down hard.


OTOH on big plain boards opponent has good time to shoot with no LOS blocking and in these knight heavy meta's...BW's are actually soft targets. People are gearing up to one shot castellans. That's equilavent of causing 84 wounds to T8. How many BW's that is?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/11 10:34:41


Post by: Jidmah


tneva82 wrote:
Luckily being blood axe doesn't mean you can't use the other strategem eh then? Or not take blood axe to begin with.

Typical tneva. I responded to a person trying to run blood axes. You respond to me by telling me not to run blood axes. Seriously?


I'm playing death guard, daemons, sisters and harlequins a lot lately. Those armies don't do jack outside of 26.5" range.


But they can move out of that range. Idea isn't to stay there. Idea is to prevent opponent from screwing them if they get first turn(and now you even know it when deploying) by shooting/casting/doing T1 charges. Once your turn is done they are in position to move forward and do as planned. Why would they give you free chance to smite when they can prevent it with no cost for them...Well of course if you play against bad players fine but I don't count on that.


You don't get to go first on half your missions. Almost all CA missions decide who goes first before deploying.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/11 11:05:36


Post by: PiñaColada


tneva82 wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
But technically the bonebreakas and three battlewagons with deffrolla could be really strong, if you're playing on a big plains board. Terrain (especially ruins) would shut that list down hard.


OTOH on big plain boards opponent has good time to shoot with no LOS blocking and in these knight heavy meta's...BW's are actually soft targets. People are gearing up to one shot castellans. That's equilavent of causing 84 wounds to T8. How many BW's that is?

For sure, but at least on a plain battlefield you have some crazy damage potential. But if someone has a castellan or a list tailored to beat castellans then battlewagon spam is not going to work. And if you're fighting in ruins then you're also screwed.

Battlewagons & bonebreakas are solid, it's just too much of a good thing


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/01/11 11:16:36


Post by: tneva82


PiñaColada wrote:
For sure, but at least on a plain battlefield you have some crazy damage potential. But if someone has a castellan or a list tailored to beat castellans then battlewagon spam is not going to work. And if you're fighting in ruins then you're also screwed.

Battlewagons & bonebreakas are solid, it's just too much of a good thing


Plains you are also in trouble if you are facing any list which has taken knights in mind. Which is...about every list in competive and lots of semi-competive. Any list that can one shot knight, especially castellan, will be blowing up several battlewagons right away(indeed theoretical average with 3++ castellan would equal 5 bw's and 1 wounded...Albeit the way damage rolls work out you are looking more like 3-4 bw's).

So it's not even as tough as you might think. And you have not nearly enough points. 3 unarmed battlewagons with nothing inside is nothing scary but with 1300pts bare minimum for 9 wagons without hq's and troops not much else you afford in...