Voss wrote: Plasma guy is fairly interesting. Decent weapon, a steady trickle of mortal wounds. Definitely needs his bodyguards.
Skorpekhs... eh. Not sold on the weapon loadout or the plasmacyte. The big weapon is fine- lets them deal with a variety of targets. +1 attack for the 'threshers' is rather bland- not sure that's enough hitting power for the current (or 8th edition) ruleset.
If a real kit comes with the full book, I'd hope for more options, rather than being stuck with a reap-blade and 2 threshers.
The Skorpekhs seem like they can output a huge amount of damage. You're getting 6 attacks with the threshers if you use the plasmacyte. at -3 and Damage 2 that's going to tear through everything, even with an invuln save.
5 attacks with the plasmacyte (3 base+1 weapon+1plasmacyte), The plasmacyte strength buff doesn't matter much against most targets (you'll still wound on 3s unless they were t5, and the amount of t6 and t10 stuff is very low)
Its just... for anti-horde duty they're not a great choice, they just don't have enough attacks. For anti primaris duty, I guess they're fine, but +1A over the reap blades is just OK. For anti-vehicle they just aren't enough. The strength buff and d3 will take you further than the bonus attack and less everything else..
Yeah, I corrected my mistake.
I don't see how they are anti-horde. They will carve through most everything except T8 Units with relative ease.
Because against real horde units, the high AP and Damage doesn't matter. [Unless AoS damage is getting plopped in with no warning at all]. If they get to the enemy unit intact and attack first, they'll do a reasonable amount of wounds, but not enough. Each one that falls is huge loss of attacks, and if you're losing models to horde units, they'll be that much worse if they can push through and get to their real targets. I'd happily jam these with 30 gants or cultists to prevent them from doing any real damage over a 5 turn game.
Voss wrote: Plasma guy is fairly interesting. Decent weapon, a steady trickle of mortal wounds. Definitely needs his bodyguards.
Skorpekhs... eh. Not sold on the weapon loadout or the plasmacyte. The big weapon is fine- lets them deal with a variety of targets. +1 attack for the 'threshers' is rather bland- not sure that's enough hitting power for the current (or 8th edition) ruleset.
If a real kit comes with the full book, I'd hope for more options, rather than being stuck with a reap-blade and 2 threshers.
The Skorpekhs seem like they can output a huge amount of damage. You're getting 6 attacks with the threshers if you use the plasmacyte. at -3 and Damage 2 that's going to tear through everything, even with an invuln save.
5 attacks with the plasmacyte (3 base+1 weapon+1plasmacyte), The plasmacyte strength buff doesn't matter much against most targets (you'll still wound on 3s unless they were t5, and the amount of t6 and t10 stuff is very low)
Its just... for anti-horde duty they're not a great choice, they just don't have enough attacks. For anti primaris duty, I guess they're fine, but +1A over the reap blades is just OK. For anti-vehicle they just aren't enough. The strength buff and d3 will take you further than the bonus attack and less everything else..
Yeah, I corrected my mistake.
I don't see how they are anti-horde. They will carve through most everything except T8 Units with relative ease.
Because against real horde units, the high AP and Damage doesn't matter. [Unless AoS damage is getting plopped in with no warning at all]. If they get to the enemy unit intact and attack first, they'll do a reasonable amount of wounds, but not enough. Each one that falls is huge loss of attacks, and if you're losing models to horde units, they'll be that much worse if they can push through and get to their real targets. I'd happily jam these with 30 gants or cultists to prevent them from doing any real damage over a 5 turn game.
I mis-read your statement. I thought said these were for anti-horde, which is why I was perplexed.
Yeah, you don't want to get them tied up by a tarpit unit, but these are good at carving up anything sub T8, that's not in a mass unit.
Overread wrote: Curious observation - the Destroyers on the GW Website are out of stock, but are not listed as sold-out. Interesting because the Monolith, Warriors and such are sold out. Suggests perhaps that GW isn't replacing destroyers, OR that the update for those models is much further along (or that the intern didn't get told)
Or maybe they'll just leave them as 'Temporarily out of stock Online' until they're ready to release the Lokhust Destroyer kit. (Note that the Necron Warriors are still listed as 'Temporarily out of stock Online' in the US web store).
Shaelinith wrote: MWBD is 9" and not infantry only, that's very good.
I'd hold off on the celebrations until we see the codex, since the Indomitus box has no Necron vehicles it could be an omission to prevent confusion (and doing just the opposite for veteran players).
It has the re-animator which isn't infantry and so gains the benefits from MWBD and the Aura.
Overread wrote: Curious observation - the Destroyers on the GW Website are out of stock, but are not listed as sold-out. Interesting because the Monolith, Warriors and such are sold out. Suggests perhaps that GW isn't replacing destroyers, OR that the update for those models is much further along (or that the intern didn't get told)
Or maybe they'll just leave them as 'Temporarily out of stock Online' until they're ready to release the Lokhust Destroyer kit. (Note that the Necron Warriors are still listed as 'Temporarily out of stock Online' in the US web store).
Shaelinith wrote: MWBD is 9" and not infantry only, that's very good.
I'd hold off on the celebrations until we see the codex, since the Indomitus box has no Necron vehicles it could be an omission to prevent confusion (and doing just the opposite for veteran players).
It has the re-animator which isn't infantry and so gains the benefits from MWBD and the Aura.
Nor is it a vehicle which I specifically mentioned in my post. So again, hold off on any plans on using MWBD on Doomsday Arks etc.
If that stratagem to get +1 str is still a thing (can't remember the name) then the main skorpekh destroyer could be pushed to str 9 rerolling 1s to wound with the skorpekh Lord.
So possible to get 4 hitting on 3 reolling 1s (MWBD and HWH) Str 9 -4 3 damage attacks for a POSSIBLE 12 Damage
Not exactly a vehicle killer but could help against say landraiders to weaken or finish them off though still needs a good roll
Overread wrote: Curious observation - the Destroyers on the GW Website are out of stock, but are not listed as sold-out. Interesting because the Monolith, Warriors and such are sold out. Suggests perhaps that GW isn't replacing destroyers, OR that the update for those models is much further along (or that the intern didn't get told)
Or maybe they'll just leave them as 'Temporarily out of stock Online' until they're ready to release the Lokhust Destroyer kit. (Note that the Necron Warriors are still listed as 'Temporarily out of stock Online' in the US web store).
Shaelinith wrote: MWBD is 9" and not infantry only, that's very good.
I'd hold off on the celebrations until we see the codex, since the Indomitus box has no Necron vehicles it could be an omission to prevent confusion (and doing just the opposite for veteran players).
It has the re-animator which isn't infantry and so gains the benefits from MWBD and the Aura.
Nor is it a vehicle which I specifically mentioned in my post. So again, hold off on any plans on using MWBD on Doomsday Arks etc.
Yes, but there is no non-infantry exceptions in its rules, despite there being non-infantry units within the box (Scarabs too) so there is absolutely no reason to believe this would somehow change with the codex. It's clearly designed to effect everything.
Overread wrote: Curious observation - the Destroyers on the GW Website are out of stock, but are not listed as sold-out. Interesting because the Monolith, Warriors and such are sold out. Suggests perhaps that GW isn't replacing destroyers, OR that the update for those models is much further along (or that the intern didn't get told)
Or maybe they'll just leave them as 'Temporarily out of stock Online' until they're ready to release the Lokhust Destroyer kit. (Note that the Necron Warriors are still listed as 'Temporarily out of stock Online' in the US web store).
Shaelinith wrote: MWBD is 9" and not infantry only, that's very good.
I'd hold off on the celebrations until we see the codex, since the Indomitus box has no Necron vehicles it could be an omission to prevent confusion (and doing just the opposite for veteran players).
It has the re-animator which isn't infantry and so gains the benefits from MWBD and the Aura.
Nor is it a vehicle which I specifically mentioned in my post. So again, hold off on any plans on using MWBD on Doomsday Arks etc.
I hope it affects vehicles, the amount of other armies with Auras that affect vehicles then I think this one should be fine, its only a +1 to hit so its not exactly game breaking compared to say Cawl and his reroll everything for Mars units in so many inchs
Aza'Gorod wrote: If these are leaks from the new indomitus box then surely RP is in there. Unless they plan to release the new codex as the same time
Also I'm hoping flayed ones are finally viable. I've always liked the idea for them but wished they were better
It doesn't seem to be. Everything RP reference says 'See Codex Necrons.'
Warriors, amusingly, get what was a 2CP strat as part of their base rules. (Reroll 1s on RP)
Flayed ones.. I really doubt it. They're too slow, deep strike out of a reasonable charge range, and their morale debuff is trivial. And they're now competing with better melee elites.
Mad Doc wrote:I’m unsure on the new Warrior weapon. It definitely hits harder...but that range?
Yeah, it hasn't gotten any better since they previewed it. As a range band, 14" is pretty awful. Deep strike in at 9", can't double tap. Overwatch? Some chargers may be out of range for double tap.
Aza'Gorod wrote: If these are leaks from the new indomitus box then surely RP is in there. Unless they plan to release the new codex as the same time
Also I'm hoping flayed ones are finally viable. I've always liked the idea for them but wished they were better
It doesn't seem to be. Everything RP reference says 'See Codex Necrons.'
Warriors, amusingly, get what was a 2CP strat as part of their base rules. (Reroll 1s on RP)
Flayed ones.. I really doubt it. They're too slow, deep strike out of a reasonable charge range, and their morale debuff is trivial. And they're now competing with better melee elites.
Mad Doc wrote:I’m unsure on the new Warrior weapon. It definitely hits harder...but that range?
Yeah, it hasn't gotten any better since they previewed it. As a range band, 14" is pretty awful. Deep strike in at 9", can't double tap. Overwatch? Some chargers may be out of range for double tap.
What I mean is they need to overhaul them.
Personally make the models plastic, move them to troops and lower the points. Maybe make it so if they charge a unit that was shot in the shooting face they re roll distance (smell of blood??) Or with the new terrain rule have it to they can start skulking in a terrain piece so not really a deepstrike but gets them up the board.
If they've overhauled warriors and scarabs its not out of the question to overhaul flayed ones
And yeah I've noticed so many of our new weapons are so lacking in range. They really are pushing us to be an army that marches across the board
Overread wrote: Curious observation - the Destroyers on the GW Website are out of stock, but are not listed as sold-out. Interesting because the Monolith, Warriors and such are sold out. Suggests perhaps that GW isn't replacing destroyers, OR that the update for those models is much further along (or that the intern didn't get told)
Or maybe they'll just leave them as 'Temporarily out of stock Online' until they're ready to release the Lokhust Destroyer kit. (Note that the Necron Warriors are still listed as 'Temporarily out of stock Online' in the US web store).
Shaelinith wrote: MWBD is 9" and not infantry only, that's very good.
I'd hold off on the celebrations until we see the codex, since the Indomitus box has no Necron vehicles it could be an omission to prevent confusion (and doing just the opposite for veteran players).
It has the re-animator which isn't infantry and so gains the benefits from MWBD and the Aura.
Nor is it a vehicle which I specifically mentioned in my post. So again, hold off on any plans on using MWBD on Doomsday Arks etc.
Yes, but there is no non-infantry exceptions in its rules, despite there being non-infantry units within the box (Scarabs too) so there is absolutely no reason to believe this would somehow change with the codex. It's clearly designed to effect everything.
Again, there is NO GUARANTEE that this is what the codex rules will look like. 8th edition Death Guard codex was different than what was found in the Dark Imperium starter so it's not an unhead of situation.
I had been out of Warhammer for a while, and decided to get back in for the new edition and start Custodes and Necrons as new projects. And like two weeks after I started on my first Necron I hear about this new edition and Necron release coming up. I really couldn't have picked a better time.
I had been out of Warhammer for a while, and decided to get back in for the new edition and start Custodes and Necrons as new projects. And like two weeks after I started on my first Necron I hear about this new edition and Necron release coming up. I really couldn't have picked a better time.
I'm in a similar boat. I picked up a few Necrons back at the start of the year as a project, and got distracted by... everything (which made prepping for in-person social games a lower priority, somehow). But I'd decided to by contrary and go Novokh (because I like the paint scheme variation I'd worked out), and suddenly its much more relevant.
those destroyers seem really similar to wraiths. I like wraiths, and I'll probably like the skorptek destroyers as well, but with only a 2 PL diff between them it's going to be hard to pass up wraith flight and a 3++. Unless they do something terrible to the wraiths (like make them WS4/BS4 to be in line with the rest of the canoptek)I just have a hard time Imagining I'll field them. Of course if they have extermination protocols that might make them a favorite, but they don't have any defenses to speak of they are in the same boat as their lokhust cousins.
Grimgold wrote: those destroyers seem really similar to wraiths. I like wraiths, and I'll probably like the skorptek destroyers as well, but with only a 2 PL diff between them it's going to be hard to pass up wraith flight and a 3++. Unless they do something terrible to the wraiths (like make them WS4/BS4 to be in line with the rest of the canoptek)I just have a hard time Imagining I'll field them. Of course if they have extermination protocols that might make them a favorite, but they don't have any defenses to speak of they are in the same boat as their lokhust cousins.
Yeah, I think we need to see how RP and Living metal play out. They are significantly more killy than Wraiths, but they will draw a ton firepower.
They are elite, which is nice, and probably going to be about 10 points less than a wraith per model. I could see running two smaller squads of them.
Skorpekhs will also likely be getting Extermination Protocols in the new Codex, so re-rolling hits and wounds on them will be nice. Wraiths are there for speed and durability, whereas the Skorpekhs are for actually killing stuff.
Can definitely see the two units working well together.
Chuck in your Wraiths first in case of Overwatch, then in with the Skorpekh.
Wraiths add a decent number of attacks for infantry, whilst the Skorpekh bring reliable numbers of casualties, with or without the Plasmacyte powering them up.
I’d just be wary of engaging relatively isolated enemy units in this way, unless I need them gone. The fear there is the two units combined would wipe out the enemy, and with nothing to consolidate into, face fiery snooty boom boom reprisals.
Shaelinith wrote: Do we know the role of the Royal Warden (HQ or Elite ?). I don't see it on the spoiler the way the picture is taken.
Yeah its up there somewhere.
He has a decent rifle (S5 RapidFire2 -2 D2 I think), and he can pull units out of combat to shoot and/or charge.
Sorry i wasn't clear. Do we know if he is Elite or HQ ? Seeing the Marines with 3 HQ choices (Judicar is Elite), maybe the warden is an Elite Choice (Overlord, Skorpekh Lord and Plasmancers ? are HQ).
Bosskelot wrote: Since the Plasmancer, Overlord and Lord are all HQ's I'm going to assume he's an Elite.
That's.. interesting I guess. Probably nice for us?
We are not a HQ intensive faction, but with the new detachement mecanics, we will probably play with one Patrol or Battalion. That's a maximum of 3 HQ choices. But if i'm totally honest, it would probably be the plasmancer i would drop first. Maybe we don't have all the rules and possiblities, but i find him rather weak. The Thralls could be good, but better suited to somebody like Szeras.
Bosskelot wrote: Since the Plasmancer, Overlord and Lord are all HQ's I'm going to assume he's an Elite.
That's.. interesting I guess. Probably nice for us?
Yeah, if the leaked costs are true he's only about 10 pts cheaper than an overlord, I'd prefer him to be elite. Our HQ slot is already pretty crowded and we don't use our elites a lot.
Yeah, I think we're all talking about the Royal Warden. I can't make that one out.
Yeah just caught up and realised my mistake.
You can match up the flavour text in the top right with that of the Overlord, which means he comes after the overlord in the booklet. That makes me think HQ, since it goes HQ, troops, elites.
So 4 HQs in the box for us, which is weird.
Hoping for some kind of royal court rule that means extra HQs don't take up slots, otherwise our HQ slots are looking busy now.
Yeah, I think we're all talking about the Royal Warden. I can't make that one out.
Yeah just caught up and realised my mistake.
You can match up the flavour text in the top right with that of the Overlord, which means he comes after the overlord in the booklet. That makes me think HQ, since it goes HQ, troops, elites.
So 4 HQs in the box for us, which is weird.
Hoping for some kind of royal court rule that means extra HQs don't take up slots, otherwise our HQ slots are looking busy now.
That would be cool. It may key off the Noble Keyword on the Overlord or something.
A return of the royal court might be nice. That was 5th ed rule that I thought was cool, despite the dynasty aspect.
How much is the Indomitus Box? Might have to split it with someone.
Does it come with one rule book or two? Because if there's one some negotiation might be in order. I guess we can just donate it to the FLGS and I buy my own copy of the BRB.
Yeah it'd be cool. Also a strat like that GSC one, so if you have an ovelord as warlord, you can give a cryptek and a warden an additional warlord trait. Something like that would be spicy.
As things stand, I think it's looking like we might have to consider Battalion and Patrol, just eat the 2CP cost to get more HQ slots.
We're still gonna be too expensive to field a brigade outside of weird lists, unless RP changes make it so we don't need max sized squads.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CthuluIsSpy wrote: How much is the Indomitus Box? Might have to split it with someone.
Does it come with one rule book or two? Because if there's one some negotiation might be in order. I guess we can just donate it to the FLGS and I buy my own copy of the BRB.
No price yet, but rumour is £120 rrp (so £96 at third party sellers). One rulebook per box. I'm getting a full box for me and then buying another necron half off someone.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: A return of the royal court might be nice. That was 5th ed rule that I thought was cool, despite the dynasty aspect.
How much is the Indomitus Box? Might have to split it with someone.
Does it come with one rule book or two? Because if there's one some negotiation might be in order. I guess we can just donate it to the FLGS and I buy my own copy of the BRB.
There is a bunch of prices floating around right now. I've seen 200 USD, 240 USD, and 290 USD.
I think we will get an official price this Sunday.
IanVanCheese wrote: Yeah it'd be cool. Also a strat like that GSC one, so if you have an ovelord as warlord, you can give a cryptek and a warden an additional warlord trait. Something like that would be spicy.
As things stand, I think it's looking like we might have to consider Battalion and Patrol, just eat the 2CP cost to get more HQ slots.
We're still gonna be too expensive to field a brigade outside of weird lists, unless RP changes make it so we don't need max sized squads.
Now that would be awesome.
Still holding out hope that Lords are still a thing and not being replaced by Wardens
IanVanCheese wrote: Yeah it'd be cool. Also a strat like that GSC one, so if you have an ovelord as warlord, you can give a cryptek and a warden an additional warlord trait. Something like that would be spicy.
As things stand, I think it's looking like we might have to consider Battalion and Patrol, just eat the 2CP cost to get more HQ slots.
We're still gonna be too expensive to field a brigade outside of weird lists, unless RP changes make it so we don't need max sized squads.
Now that would be awesome.
Still holding out hope that Lords are still a thing and not being replaced by Wardens
According to the article they're durable, and can shoot? But if a Cryptek is nearby you can teleport models around
Utterly gorgeous models (and by the looks of it, three come as one unit). Translocation protocols sounds like exactly what we need - a way to zip around to where we need to be.
The thing about the Plasmancer is with his Cryptek keyword, he could actually have some kind of bonus towards RP that isn't listed in his datasheet but is listed in the new RP mechanics.
Terrain providing bonuses within a certain radius is pretty normal for army terrain pieces. Being able to move it forward as your army advances is just sensible for a faction with lots of teleportation science.
Voss wrote: What, that it would do what they said it would?
Terrain providing bonuses within a certain radius is pretty normal for army terrain pieces. Being able to move it forward as your army advances is just sensible for a faction with lots of teleportation science.
No, I think teleporting the terrain around the table instead of Necron units would be much more awkward.
Bosskelot wrote: The thing about the Plasmancer is with his Cryptek keyword, he could actually have some kind of bonus towards RP that isn't listed in his datasheet but is listed in the new RP mechanics.
Possibly, but since it may just be so the Cryptothralls can work with either this guy or the regular Crypteks. I think we'll more likely see the old Crypteks being the unit buffing guys and these guys as a bit more offensive.
The Warden being an HQ is a bit weird and annoying as Necrons are now one of the few factions that don't get mini characters in their Elite slots. Would have been nice to have the Warden fit there. I wonder if this is a case of GW not quite grasping the subtleties of some of the changes they've made.
I doubt they'll squat lords. They are intrinsic to necron Lore as lower ranking members of a royal Court. People have mentioned that there seems to be a new royal keyword so I'm presuming that will have something to do with the Lords.
Maybe it'll be something like 1 overlord can form a royal court which contains 0-4 models with the royal keyword or something so we can fit more HQs on the table.
Obviously I could be completely wrong but it would be a nice mechanic
Edit, sorry noble keyword, which crypteks are lacking so whatever, but I did notice the Plasmancer had the fly keyword which I kind of find to be hilarious and makes him a fair bit more manoeuvrable and makes me dream to have him assault a flyer someday just for the shenanigans
Aza'Gorod wrote: ... I did notice the Plasmancer had the fly keyword which I kind of find to be hilarious and makes him a fair bit more manoeuvrable and makes me dream to have him assault a flyer someday just for the shenanigans
The Cryptek with Canoptek Cloak has the FLY keyword as well, just note that if you take any Cryptothralls that they do not have the FLY keyword.
Aza'Gorod wrote: I doubt they'll squat lords. They are intrinsic to necron Lore as lower ranking members of a royal Court. People have mentioned that there seems to be a new royal keyword so I'm presuming that will have something to do with the Lords.
Maybe it'll be something like 1 overlord can form a royal court which contains 0-4 models with the royal keyword or something so we can fit more HQs on the table.
Obviously I could be completely wrong but it would be a nice mechanic
Edit, sorry noble keyword, which crypteks are lacking so whatever, but I did notice the Plasmancer had the fly keyword which I kind of find to be hilarious and makes him a fair bit more manoeuvrable and makes me dream to have him assault a flyer someday just for the shenanigans
He flies because he's basically just the torso up.
Charging a flyer is easy- any model can do that.
Charging an aircraft isn't actually doable in 9th.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Aza'Gorod wrote: Please can they reveal RP this Saturday. Its the thing we need to know most of all
RP is 'see Necron Codex,' - which is to say, exactly as it is now.
Any revision will have to wait until the new codex. We won't see it Saturday.
Consider the Canoptek Reanimator- its Reanimation been is from your command phase until the start of your next command phase. You make RP rolls at the beginning of your turn (which would be... the instant before the command phase starts). That works without touching RP at all.
The new codex can hopefully refine RP as a whole (preferably at the end of each phase when you take casualties, but I'm not holding my breath), and it will still work as written.
I'd hope they'd at least move it inside the command phase (and change reanimation beam accordingly) so it isn't a weird outlier to the turn structure. That just annoys me- if you add a bookkeeping phase to your game, put all the bookkeeping inside it.
On the one hand, there's a fair bit I want in the elite slot, but elites also have more slots in most Detachments (than fast or heavy), and the obvious alternative would be heavy alongside the spyder.
Voss wrote: The reanimator is Elite? Ouch... I think.
On the one hand, there's a fair bit I want in the elite slot, but elites also have more slots in most Detachments (than fast or heavy), and the obvious alternative would be heavy alongside the spyder.
I think elite is the best slot for it. Out fast attacks are already filled with decent options, same with heavy. Still not hopeful for it, but we'll see what new RP looks like before I write it off completely.
Voss wrote: The reanimator is Elite? Ouch... I think.
On the one hand, there's a fair bit I want in the elite slot, but elites also have more slots in most Detachments (than fast or heavy), and the obvious alternative would be heavy alongside the spyder.
I think elite is the best slot for it. Out fast attacks are already filled with decent options, same with heavy. Still not hopeful for it, but we'll see what new RP looks like before I write it off completely.
Agreed. In most lists you really didn't take much in the elite slot. I'm pretty happy that a lot of the new stuff is there. I'm also hoping there is a missing piece in the codex for the Reanimator, because the rules for it right now are just so poor.
Edit, sorry noble keyword, which crypteks are lacking so whatever, but I did notice the Plasmancer had the fly keyword which I kind of find to be hilarious and makes him a fair bit more manoeuvrable and makes me dream to have him assault a flyer someday just for the shenanigans
The plasmancer doesn't have much going for it without the cryptothralls. I definitely wouldn't want it locked in combat.
Voss wrote: The reanimator is Elite? Ouch... I think.
On the one hand, there's a fair bit I want in the elite slot, but elites also have more slots in most Detachments (than fast or heavy), and the obvious alternative would be heavy alongside the spyder.
I think elite is the best slot for it. Out fast attacks are already filled with decent options, same with heavy. Still not hopeful for it, but we'll see what new RP looks like before I write it off completely.
Agreed. In most lists you really didn't take much in the elite slot. I'm pretty happy that a lot of the new stuff is there. I'm also hoping there is a missing piece in the codex for the Reanimator, because the rules for it right now are just so poor.
I think it has living metal. Doesn't it? I'd be surprised if they didn't rework that. I think they'll change Living metal and Quantum Shielding, in addition to RP. How will they do it? Beats me and this thread isn't the place to speculate.
I just don't think you can port those rules over very well into a new edition. We'll see though.
My Will be done got changed. You don't get a bonus to movement and advance, but the range increases to 9"
The move and advance bonuses got moved to an Aura called Relentless Advance.
This was to be expected, I guess. MWBD was pretty strong.
Wardens allows a Necron unit to fallback and shoot.
Useful.
Enema is a D3 Assault blast weapon, S6 AP-1, 18"
Skorpehk Lord can buff all destroyers, not just skorpehks.
Crabby Daddy also comes with a phase shifter.
Skorpehk destroyers can take one plasmacyte.
Plasmacyte can buff reanimation (roll an extra die), but you have to sacrifice the plasmacyte.
Plasmacyte also buffs strength, but if you roll a one you lose a destroyer.
Its ok I guess, might be useful.
Reanimator is a fast boi, M8
6 W
Reanimation beam gives +1 to RP rolls.
Necron warriors are the same.
No restriction on Gauss Reapers, so you can take 100% Reapers, or 50/50
Scarabs have 4W and 4A, still move 10.
Hits on a 6 auto wounds the target.
GW really wants us to be a swamp the centre of the board with bodies type army... that's fine, as long as our durability goes up in the new codex.
Having a test game of 9th next week. Using 8th points and rules with the exception of new overlord and scarabs, so won't be hugely telling of our capabilites, but should be interesting to see how our existing stuff handles new rules.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: My Will be done got changed. You don't get a bonus to movement and advance, but the range increases to 9"
The move and advance bonuses got moved to an Aura called Relentless Advance.
This was to be expected, I guess. MWBD was pretty strong.
This is actually a buff. You can now buff all units, not only infantry, at 9" instead of 6" and you have an aura for movement and advance.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: My Will be done got changed. You don't get a bonus to movement and advance, but the range increases to 9"
The move and advance bonuses got moved to an Aura called Relentless Advance.
This was to be expected, I guess. MWBD was pretty strong.
This is actually a buff. You can now buff all units, not only infantry, at 9" instead of 6" and you have an aura for movement and advance.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: My Will be done got changed. You don't get a bonus to movement and advance, but the range increases to 9"
The move and advance bonuses got moved to an Aura called Relentless Advance.
This was to be expected, I guess. MWBD was pretty strong.
This is actually a buff. You can now buff all units, not only infantry, at 9" instead of 6" and you have an aura for movement and advance.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: My Will be done got changed. You don't get a bonus to movement and advance, but the range increases to 9"
The move and advance bonuses got moved to an Aura called Relentless Advance.
This was to be expected, I guess. MWBD was pretty strong.
This is actually a buff. You can now buff all units, not only infantry, at 9" instead of 6" and you have an aura for movement and advance.
Oh its for all units? That is really good.
Yeah, DDAs hitting on 2s makes me happy.
Doomsday Cannon was also confirmed to be a blast weapon.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: My Will be done got changed. You don't get a bonus to movement and advance, but the range increases to 9"
The move and advance bonuses got moved to an Aura called Relentless Advance.
This was to be expected, I guess. MWBD was pretty strong.
This is actually a buff. You can now buff all units, not only infantry, at 9" instead of 6" and you have an aura for movement and advance.
Oh its for all units? That is really good.
Yeah, DDAs hitting on 2s makes me happy.
Doomsday Cannon was also confirmed to be a blast weapon.
Indeed. I don't think that will make a huge difference, other than not being able to fire it while tagged. We're rarely firing it at hordes, and I think people won't be taking 6 man units of harder targets like Centurions or Aggressors anymore to avoid being blasted. Still, nice to be able to get max shots against intercessor blobs.
The profiles in the box seem extremely underwhelming, it's hard to see how the army will function at all. Hard to give an overall evaluation, as who knows what the rest of the units will look like, but none of these seem useful. The overlord buff is really nice, but every single thing in this box is anti-infantry; we have absolutely no issues with that, we needed anti-tank. Plus, the Skorptekh Destroyers seem totally worthless, plasmacyte aside, which is utterly terrible. It actually makes me quite excited to see the battle report on Saturday, because it looks so one sided, comparing the SM profiles to ours, that I suspect it could even be a tabling. Might mathhammer out expected wounds of all Necron units in the box vs all SM in the box, and vice versa, see if it's as bleak as my intuition feels. But, as some quick takes:
-Overlord MWBD overhaul good, weapon is bad, stats are bad,
-Royal Warden seems expensive for what it is, gives a buff for a situation you hope never to be in or matter
-Plasmancer seems like a gimmicky way to make mortal wounds, and that's about it
-Cryptothralls with a 5" move and needing to be within 6" of a cryptek which absolutely never wants to be engaged, makes them overcosted shield drones
-Skorptekh destroyers seem awful; they're not especially tough for their points, their number of attacks is surprisingly poor, and their weapons feel confused - it's like they want to be anti-tank, but they're not actually strong enough. I don't get it at all.
-Plasmacyte is a joke unit. Pay more to give a weak buff which might nuke a whole model?! Maybe it's meant to be an ablative wound or something.
-Reanimator buff is pointless, shooting is eh, is also made of paper mache, doesn't seem to be worth taking over any shooty vehicle
-Scarabs are bad, even with wounding on 6's they don't inflict enough damage against anything. Possibly a gamey situation where you can hide them, otherwise, no
-Warriors remain bad, new gun sucks, new rule never triggers
I just don't see anything which is actually good. There's some okay stuff, but nothing which makes me want to change any part of the normal doom spam list. Unless RP is broken to the point of hilarity in the next codex, our faction still looks to be very weak.
I'm really worried that the Warden and the Big Crab Daddy might be replacements for the Lord and Destroyer Lord. Both of those units fill the latter two units' niches.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I'm really worried that the Warden and the Big Crab Daddy might be replacements for the Lord and Destroyer Lord. Both of those units fill the latter two units' niches.
We've already seen the Destroyer Lord redesign, so you can rest easy on that one. As for the Lord, we'll just have to see. I definitely don't think we've seen all the new models we'll be getting in the next year or so. One of the art pieces they've shown appears to show a new design for Flayed Ones, so I'm betting we have at least one more model wave coming.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I'm really worried that the Warden and the Big Crab Daddy might be replacements for the Lord and Destroyer Lord. Both of those units fill the latter two units' niches.
We've already seen the Destroyer Lord redesign, so you can rest easy on that one. As for the Lord, we'll just have to see. I definitely don't think we've seen all the new models we'll be getting in the next year or so. One of the art pieces they've shown appears to show a new design for Flayed Ones, so I'm betting we have at least one more model wave coming.
What are you talking about, we haven't seen any sort of Destroyer Lord redesign. The Skorpekh Lord in all likelyhood is replacing it.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I'm really worried that the Warden and the Big Crab Daddy might be replacements for the Lord and Destroyer Lord. Both of those units fill the latter two units' niches.
We've already seen the Destroyer Lord redesign, so you can rest easy on that one. As for the Lord, we'll just have to see. I definitely don't think we've seen all the new models we'll be getting in the next year or so. One of the art pieces they've shown appears to show a new design for Flayed Ones, so I'm betting we have at least one more model wave coming.
What are you talking about, we haven't seen any sort of Destroyer Lord redesign. The Skorpekh Lord in all likelyhood is replacing it.
He believe he has mistaken the Lokhust Heavy Destroyer for a Destroyer lord.
I just don't see anything which is actually good. There's some okay stuff, but nothing which makes me want to change any part of the normal doom spam list. Unless RP is broken to the point of hilarity in the next codex, our faction still looks to be very weak.
This is exactly how I feel about these new units. The RP rules are going to make or break it, it seems clear these units are they way they are because of RP. Let's hope for it to be good or enjoy another edition of sadness.
So the storm shield change does not bode well for wraiths, if GW is taking away widespread 3++ from marines they are probably going to do it for the rest of the factions. If wraiths get worse, then that makes Skorphtek destroyers a more viable option.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I'm really worried that the Warden and the Big Crab Daddy might be replacements for the Lord and Destroyer Lord. Both of those units fill the latter two units' niches.
We've already seen the Destroyer Lord redesign, so you can rest easy on that one. As for the Lord, we'll just have to see. I definitely don't think we've seen all the new models we'll be getting in the next year or so. One of the art pieces they've shown appears to show a new design for Flayed Ones, so I'm betting we have at least one more model wave coming.
What are you talking about, we haven't seen any sort of Destroyer Lord redesign. The Skorpekh Lord in all likelyhood is replacing it.
He believe he has mistaken the Lokhust Heavy Destroyer for a Destroyer lord.
Spoiler:
Yeah, that's my mistake. For some reason I was thinking that had been revealed as a new Destroyer Lord. I need a vacation. The rest of my point still stands, though. I firmly believe the artwork shown features new Flayed Ones, which would imply we haven't seen all of the new models we'll be getting in the near future.
Grimgold wrote: So the storm shield change does not bode well for wraiths, if GW is taking away widespread 3++ from marines they are probably going to do it for the rest of the factions. If wraiths get worse, then that makes Skorphtek destroyers a more viable option.
The storm shield change doesn't affect wraiths as far as I'm aware.
What it does is make it so you can't have 1 guy with a stormshield in a unit choosing which damage he wants to tank.
Wraiths 3++ isn't affected at all
Edit, sorry I heard about the change to wound allocation but not the change to sotrmshield save modifier, yeah I hope they don't change wraiths since this only specifies storm shields hopefully wrsiths won't be affected as you would think it would mention other things besides a storm shield
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I'm really worried that the Warden and the Big Crab Daddy might be replacements for the Lord and Destroyer Lord. Both of those units fill the latter two units' niches.
We've already seen the Destroyer Lord redesign, so you can rest easy on that one. As for the Lord, we'll just have to see. I definitely don't think we've seen all the new models we'll be getting in the next year or so. One of the art pieces they've shown appears to show a new design for Flayed Ones, so I'm betting we have at least one more model wave coming.
What are you talking about, we haven't seen any sort of Destroyer Lord redesign. The Skorpekh Lord in all likelyhood is replacing it.
I'm expecting a Lokhust lord as the original destroyer Lord redesign more leaning towards annihilating an enemy at range and im doubtful that they are going to get rid of normal neuron lords altogether though I can see a redesign for them considering how many different characters Space marines have they can let us have Overlords, lords and wardens
Aza'Gorod wrote: I'm expecting a Lokhust lord as the original destroyer Lord redesign more leaning towards annihilating an enemy at range and im doubtful that they are going to get rid of normal neuron lords altogether though I can see a redesign for them considering how many different characters Space marines have they can let us have Overlords, lords and wardens
I'm kind of expecting the same. I'm not sure why we would have both Skorpekh Destroyers and Lokhust Heavy Destroyers, but just a Skorpekh Destroyer Lord.
It makes some sense if you think about it. He was a melee hq and it looks like the hover body is for shooting destroyers. I also expect the regular lord to be done.
I really don't think we are going to be seeing anymore new kits. Just looking at what we have coming, we're at like 14 new kits.
They've made a concentrated effort to update all the green rod models. I think there's a pretty good chance That the old D.Lord and Regular Destroyers may end up being squatted. Likely the Finecast Cryptek, overlord and old Lord as well.
There's still the yet to be seen creature thing that was hiding behind the monolith in the first release image, so there is at least one more kit on the way.
They could wait and have another small release alongside the Codex
Sasori wrote: I really don't think we are going to be seeing anymore new kits. Just looking at what we have coming, we're at like 14 new kits.
They've made a concentrated effort to update all the green rod models. I think there's a pretty good chance That the old D.Lord and Regular Destroyers may end up being squatted. Likely the Finecast Cryptek, overlord and old Lord as well.
Why would they specify Lokhust HEAVY destroyer if we won't be having destroyers anymore, the heavy would be redundant if we have lost normal destroyers as well. Also I'm doubtful Crypteks are gonna get squatted considering they are a very popular support unit though I can see where you are coming from with the regular D Lord
The only necron unit to get squatted are the Pariahs and that was because they no longer fit the narrative they were going for. Pretty much all primaris units replace space marines and they haven't squatted all tactical marines so I don't see why they would squat so many necron models
Sasori wrote: I really don't think we are going to be seeing anymore new kits. Just looking at what we have coming, we're at like 14 new kits.
They've made a concentrated effort to update all the green rod models. I think there's a pretty good chance That the old D.Lord and Regular Destroyers may end up being squatted. Likely the Finecast Cryptek, overlord and old Lord as well.
Why would they specify Lokhust HEAVY destroyer if we won't be having destroyers anymore, the heavy would be redundant if we have lost normal destroyers as well. Also I'm doubtful Crypteks are gonna get squatted considering they are a very popular support unit though I can see where you are coming from with the regular D Lord
The only necron unit to get squatted are the Pariahs and that was because they no longer fit the narrative they were going for. Pretty much all primaris units replace space marines and they haven't squatted all tactical marines so I don't see why they would squat so many necron models
It's not really redundant if they just want to call it heavy, that doesn't mean there has to be a regular one. I would be shocked if any of the generic Finecast kits stick around. We have a Plastic Cryptek and plastic Overlord, their finecast equivalents are not long for the world.
If the regular Destroyers stick around, they would be the only kit in the range with Green rods and I just do not think that is likely.
As for the Space Marines, that's coming eventually, it's just going to take time to phase them out due to the outrage it will cause. I fully expect all Firstborn kits, with maybe a few exceptions, to start going direct only this edition and move to Legends at the end or start of 10th.
Sentineil wrote: There's still the yet to be seen creature thing that was hiding behind the monolith in the first release image, so there is at least one more kit on the way.
They could wait and have another small release alongside the Codex
Some of what we've already seen is coming alongside the codex. There's quite a lot*, and whats in the Indomitus box is push-fit, which implies at least the possibility of full kits (with the other possibility that a unit or two will get left behind like the poor Deathguard Myphitic Blight-haulers)
Pretty sure the thing behind the monolith was a skorpekh or skorpekh lord. At least a variation or alternate build for a full kit. Its the same size with the same leg and arm structure.
*there are at least six kits in the mega-picture: terrain, monolith, c'tan, silent king, heavy destroyer and big stalker deathlaser. I did a count at one point, and adding in the terrain, necrons are getting at least 12 new datasheets, possibly even more.
The plasmancer & crypto-thralls and reanimator are least likely to get full, separate kits, just because they're fairly simple and without options.
Sentineil wrote: There's still the yet to be seen creature thing that was hiding behind the monolith in the first release image, so there is at least one more kit on the way.
They could wait and have another small release alongside the Codex
Some of what we've already seen is coming alongside the codex. There's quite a lot, and whats in the Indomitus box is push-fit, which implies at least the possibility of full kits (with the other possibility that a unit or two will get left behind like the poor Deathguard Myphitic Blight-haulers)
Pretty sure the thing behind the monolith was a skorpekh or skorpekh lord. At least a variation or alternate build for a full kit. Its the same size with the same leg and arm structure.
It may be the 3rd Destroyer Cult they referenced in one of their streams, that's what I'm leaning toward. Maybe an assassin type, since we have Melee and shooting.
Sasori wrote: I really don't think we are going to be seeing anymore new kits. Just looking at what we have coming, we're at like 14 new kits.
They've made a concentrated effort to update all the green rod models. I think there's a pretty good chance That the old D.Lord and Regular Destroyers may end up being squatted. Likely the Finecast Cryptek, overlord and old Lord as well.
Why would they specify Lokhust HEAVY destroyer if we won't be having destroyers anymore, the heavy would be redundant if we have lost normal destroyers as well. Also I'm doubtful Crypteks are gonna get squatted considering they are a very popular support unit though I can see where you are coming from with the regular D Lord
The only necron unit to get squatted are the Pariahs and that was because they no longer fit the narrative they were going for. Pretty much all primaris units replace space marines and they haven't squatted all tactical marines so I don't see why they would squat so many necron models
It's not really redundant if they just want to call it heavy, that doesn't mean there has to be a regular one. I would be shocked if any of the generic Finecast kits stick around. We have a Plastic Cryptek and plastic Overlord, their finecast equivalents are not long for the world.
If the regular Destroyers stick around, they would be the only kit in the range with Green rods and I just do not think that is likely.
As for the Space Marines, that's coming eventually, it's just going to take time to phase them out due to the outrage it will cause. I fully expect all Firstborn kits, with maybe a few exceptions, to start going direct only this edition and move to Legends at the end or start of 10th.
How can it be heavy if there isn't a "light" version I can't think of any other occasion where GW has added heavy for the sake of it, I'm just saying it would be very redundant terminology, also why are you doubtful that we aren't just gonna get a new destroyer kit, i'm suspecting a two part kit where you choose heavy or normal destroyers is what GW is gonna do as that's the cheapest option for them.
And considering destroyers were a staple Necron unit due to the stratagem people would cry out if all of a sudden all the units they bought are no longer viable at all, its unlikely they would squat such a popular unit.
If anything it's more likely to be flayed ones that get squatted or even triarch praetorian since I don't think body used them
I just don't see anything which is actually good. There's some okay stuff, but nothing which makes me want to change any part of the normal doom spam list. Unless RP is broken to the point of hilarity in the next codex, our faction still looks to be very weak.
This is exactly how I feel about these new units. The RP rules are going to make or break it, it seems clear these units are they way they are because of RP. Let's hope for it to be good or enjoy another edition of sadness.
I think you may be jumping the gun a little here.
Things we don't know that could have big effects: 1. Living metal rule, reanimation protocols, quantum shielding, gauss
2. Lokhust destroyer has an enmitic exterminator (presumably more powerful version of the enmitic annihilator). It also has a gauss destructor. Not a heavy gauss cannon. No idea of the weapon profile.
3. doomsday blaster on the walker could be decent antitank
4. monolith appears to have 2 variants. One with mini-death rays
5. triarch stalker has always buffed things. How will it do that this edition? It could be significant.
6. ghost ark: open topped or not? If it's open topped, this could be huge
7. night scythe/tombworld deployment: if improved this will be a buff that's much needed
8. illuminor szeras: no idea how he'll buff the army
9. Named Character Units: no idea how these will buff the army and it could be a big deal.
10. SILENT KING: this should be a big buff to the army.
11. New C'tan rules
12. DYNASTIC CODES: this could be hugely impactful. We know some existing codes will stay the same (mephrit) but we don't know if there will be build-a-dynasty rules. At the very least we will see new dynasties. How many? Who knows?
My point is that we don't even know half of what's in the codex. Literally, we only know a small portion.
As far as I can tell, we have nothing to complain about....yet. Could GW drop the ball? Sure. I prefer to be happy about the cool new things we're getting.
At the absolute least, we're getting some great new models. Why focus on something we can't know, especially in a negative way?
I just don't see anything which is actually good. There's some okay stuff, but nothing which makes me want to change any part of the normal doom spam list. Unless RP is broken to the point of hilarity in the next codex, our faction still looks to be very weak.
This is exactly how I feel about these new units. The RP rules are going to make or break it, it seems clear these units are they way they are because of RP. Let's hope for it to be good or enjoy another edition of sadness.
I think you may be jumping the gun a little here.
Things we don't know that could have big effects: 1. Living metal rule, reanimation protocols, quantum shielding, gauss
2. Lokhust destroyer has an enmitic exterminator (presumably more powerful version of the enmitic annihilator). It also has a gauss destructor. Not a heavy gauss cannon. No idea of the weapon profile.
3. doomsday blaster on the walker could be decent antitank
4. monolith appears to have 2 variants. One with mini-death rays
5. triarch stalker has always buffed things. How will it do that this edition? It could be significant.
6. ghost ark: open topped or not? If it's open topped, this could be huge
7. night scythe/tombworld deployment: if improved this will be a buff that's much needed
8. illuminor szeras: no idea how he'll buff the army
9. Named Character Units: no idea how these will buff the army and it could be a big deal.
10. SILENT KING: this should be a big buff to the army.
11. New C'tan rules
12. DYNASTIC CODES: this could be hugely impactful. We know some existing codes will stay the same (mephrit) but we don't know if there will be build-a-dynasty rules. At the very least we will see new dynasties. How many? Who knows?
My point is that we don't even know half of what's in the codex. Literally, we only know a small portion.
As far as I can tell, we have nothing to complain about....yet. Could GW drop the ball? Sure. I prefer to be happy about the cool new things we're getting.
At the absolute least, we're getting some great new models. Why focus on something we can't know, especially in a negative way?
Sasori wrote: I really don't think we are going to be seeing anymore new kits. Just looking at what we have coming, we're at like 14 new kits.
They've made a concentrated effort to update all the green rod models. I think there's a pretty good chance That the old D.Lord and Regular Destroyers may end up being squatted. Likely the Finecast Cryptek, overlord and old Lord as well.
Why would they specify Lokhust HEAVY destroyer if we won't be having destroyers anymore, the heavy would be redundant if we have lost normal destroyers as well. Also I'm doubtful Crypteks are gonna get squatted considering they are a very popular support unit though I can see where you are coming from with the regular D Lord
The only necron unit to get squatted are the Pariahs and that was because they no longer fit the narrative they were going for. Pretty much all primaris units replace space marines and they haven't squatted all tactical marines so I don't see why they would squat so many necron models
It's not really redundant if they just want to call it heavy, that doesn't mean there has to be a regular one. I would be shocked if any of the generic Finecast kits stick around. We have a Plastic Cryptek and plastic Overlord, their finecast equivalents are not long for the world.
If the regular Destroyers stick around, they would be the only kit in the range with Green rods and I just do not think that is likely.
As for the Space Marines, that's coming eventually, it's just going to take time to phase them out due to the outrage it will cause. I fully expect all Firstborn kits, with maybe a few exceptions, to start going direct only this edition and move to Legends at the end or start of 10th.
How can it be heavy if there isn't a "light" version, I'm just saying it would be very redundant terminology, also why are you doubtful that we aren't just gonna get a new destroyer kit, i'm suspecting a two part kit where you choose heavy or normal destroyers is what GW is gonna do as that's the cheapest option for them.
And considering destroyers were a staple Necron unit due to the stratagem people would cry out if all of a sudden all the units they bought are no longer viable at all, its unlikely they would squat such a popular unit.
If anything it's more likely to be flayed ones that get squatted or even triarch praetorian since I don't think body used them
They've already confirmed the Lokhust Heavy Destroyer is a pushfit kit with two weapon options. I would have thought it would have been a dual kit before that was confirmed as well. The issue with the regular destroyers isn't popularity, it's the green rods. They would be the only kit with them still left, which is why I am doubtful they are sticking around.
Triarch praetorians are current plastic kit, with two different units and two different builds for those units that fit with the current aesthetic. They're even featured in the big Necron pic. Being popular doesn't really have anything to do with it.
I just don't see anything which is actually good. There's some okay stuff, but nothing which makes me want to change any part of the normal doom spam list. Unless RP is broken to the point of hilarity in the next codex, our faction still looks to be very weak.
This is exactly how I feel about these new units. The RP rules are going to make or break it, it seems clear these units are they way they are because of RP. Let's hope for it to be good or enjoy another edition of sadness.
I think you may be jumping the gun a little here.
Things we don't know that could have big effects: 1. Living metal rule, reanimation protocols, quantum shielding, gauss
2. Lokhust destroyer has an enmitic exterminator (presumably more powerful version of the enmitic annihilator). It also has a gauss destructor. Not a heavy gauss cannon. No idea of the weapon profile.
3. doomsday blaster on the walker could be decent antitank
4. monolith appears to have 2 variants. One with mini-death rays
5. triarch stalker has always buffed things. How will it do that this edition? It could be significant.
6. ghost ark: open topped or not? If it's open topped, this could be huge
7. night scythe/tombworld deployment: if improved this will be a buff that's much needed
8. illuminor szeras: no idea how he'll buff the army
9. Named Character Units: no idea how these will buff the army and it could be a big deal.
10. SILENT KING: this should be a big buff to the army.
11. New C'tan rules
12. DYNASTIC CODES: this could be hugely impactful. We know some existing codes will stay the same (mephrit) but we don't know if there will be build-a-dynasty rules. At the very least we will see new dynasties. How many? Who knows?
My point is that we don't even know half of what's in the codex. Literally, we only know a small portion.
As far as I can tell, we have nothing to complain about....yet. Could GW drop the ball? Sure. I prefer to be happy about the cool new things we're getting.
At the absolute least, we're getting some great new models. Why focus on something we can't know, especially in a negative way?
When did they show the 2 monolith variants?
You can see the two weapon options in the big Necron pic.
Variants is pushing it, but they have shown pictures with 2 different sponson weapons - the gauss flux arc that it currently has, and what appears to be death ray looking weapons. So what looks like anti-infantry and anti-tank options.
Variants is pushing it, but they have shown pictures with 2 different sponson weapons - the gauss flux arc that it currently has, and what appears to be death ray looking weapons. So what looks like anti-infantry and anti-tank options.
One also shows a warrior teleporting in and the other does not. Could be nothing. Could be something.
Sentineil wrote: There's still the yet to be seen creature thing that was hiding behind the monolith in the first release image, so there is at least one more kit on the way.
They could wait and have another small release alongside the Codex
Pretty sure the thing behind the monolith was a skorpekh or skorpekh lord. At least a variation or alternate build for a full kit. Its the same size with the same leg and arm structure.
if it's a skorpekh destroyer I'll eat my hat. There is no way that is a skorpekh.
Are you sure you're looking in the right place? It's on the left side of the monolith below the doom scythe.
Variants is pushing it, but they have shown pictures with 2 different sponson weapons - the gauss flux arc that it currently has, and what appears to be death ray looking weapons. So what looks like anti-infantry and anti-tank options.
One also shows a warrior teleporting in and the other does not. Could be nothing. Could be something.
Different weapons are always 'something'. The teleporting Warrior is just an aesthetic choice, similar to the decision to put the Warriors in your Ghost Ark or not.
Sentineil wrote: There's still the yet to be seen creature thing that was hiding behind the monolith in the first release image, so there is at least one more kit on the way.
They could wait and have another small release alongside the Codex
Pretty sure the thing behind the monolith was a skorpekh or skorpekh lord. At least a variation or alternate build for a full kit. Its the same size with the same leg and arm structure.
if it's a skorpekh destroyer I'll eat my hat. There is no way that is a skorpekh.
Are you sure you're looking in the right place? It's on the left side of the monolith below the doom scythe.
Yes. With the green tubes? Yeah, they're attached to skorpekh lord legs and double arms, or something very, very close to it. So alternate build dual kit.
It looks like the same basic body type, and there are just so many releases I'd be shocked if none were a dual kit.
I can totally see the Lokhust Heavy Destroyer becoming the "new" Heavy Destroyer.
It already happened with other races, Orks come to mind with Mekgunz replacing the big gunz, and the speed freaks buggies replacing the old buggy and wartrakk.
Old kits are then pushed to Legends to avoid mass hysteria, and that's it.
For now i think Legends will have a lot of finecrap units/characters that won't be remade in plastic exactly kit for kit, but very old plastic kit will sooner or later either finish in legends, or be remade, but with some changes that make the old model difficult to count for the new profile/kit.
In the end, GW doesn't want old timers to stop buying because they already have everything ... twice or more.
The "Lokhust" is also a good way to put some IP on a very generic name. Almost everything gets a goofy name recently.
I'm inclined to agree that that thing in the background is a destroyer of some kind, Probably the third kind rather than an alternative equipment loadout for Skorpekhs. We have shooty and stabby destroyers, so maybe a MW focused destroyer?
It won't be a support unit, doesn't fit their fluff, they wan too kill kill kill.
It's safe to assume Destroyer Lord of old is gone. The fate of normal destroyers is the one that is up in the air. They won't keep the old green rod kit, so either they have new kit/dual build with Lokhust, or they're gone.
To be fair, we've seen one lone destroyer. That could be one out of 3 builds for that kit. Would it really be that hard to make that kit build the old d-lord, the destroyer and the heavy? Not really. It's a weapon swap, a few random bits and a head swap.
Egyptian Space Zombie wrote: To be fair, we've seen one lone destroyer. That could be one out of 3 builds for that kit. Would it really be that hard to make that kit build the old d-lord, the destroyer and the heavy? Not really. It's a weapon swap, a few random bits and a head swap.
The old D-Lord/Heavy Destroyer were/are literally upgrade kits for the standard Destroyer kit.
They've said the new Heavy Destroyer is puch fit so I don't think it'll be getting options, but it would be trivial to make a normal kit for them and have the options for 1 in 3 to either be a heavy destroyer or destroyer lord
Although I think a Lokhust Destroyer Lord is unlikely, but it'd be nice to field only destroyer cult models
If the regular Destroyers stick around, they would be the only kit in the range with Green rods and I just do not think that is likely.
I don't think anyone is saying the old Destroyers will be sticking around. We're expecting them to be one of the models to be redesigned in the near future.
I also wanted to take a moment to actually link the artwork I was referring to earlier:
Spoiler:
Those look like new Flayed Ones to me, which based on the "no model, no artwork" rule would mean we haven't seen everything we're getting yet.
If the regular Destroyers stick around, they would be the only kit in the range with Green rods and I just do not think that is likely.
I don't think anyone is saying the old Destroyers will be sticking around. We're expecting them to be one of the models to be redesigned in the near future.
I also wanted to take a moment to actually link the artwork I was referring to earlier:
Spoiler:
Those look like new Flayed Ones to me, which based on the "no model, no artwork" rule would mean we haven't seen everything we're getting yet.
The rule isn't no model, no artwork. The rule is is no rules without a model anymore. There is plenty of artwork without models or rules.
We'll see if the regular destroyers are sticking around. Maybe they get a redesign at some point, but if there is no new model for them this codex cycle then I don't think there will be rules for them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Egyptian Space Zombie wrote: To be fair, we've seen one lone destroyer. That could be one out of 3 builds for that kit. Would it really be that hard to make that kit build the old d-lord, the destroyer and the heavy? Not really. It's a weapon swap, a few random bits and a head swap.
They've confirmed the Lokhust heavy destroyer is pushfit with two weapon options already.
The rule isn't no model, no artwork. The rule is is no rules without a model anymore. There is plenty of artwork without models or rules.
We'll see if the regular destroyers are sticking around. Maybe they get a redesign at some point, but if there is no new model for them this codex cycle then I don't think there will be rules for them.
Could you provide a recent example of artwork that hasn't gotten a matching model?
The rule isn't no model, no artwork. The rule is is no rules without a model anymore. There is plenty of artwork without models or rules.
We'll see if the regular destroyers are sticking around. Maybe they get a redesign at some point, but if there is no new model for them this codex cycle then I don't think there will be rules for them.
Could you provide a recent example of artwork that hasn't gotten a matching model?
Egyptian Space Zombie wrote: To be fair, we've seen one lone destroyer. That could be one out of 3 builds for that kit. Would it really be that hard to make that kit build the old d-lord, the destroyer and the heavy? Not really. It's a weapon swap, a few random bits and a head swap.
The new destroyer looks a fair bit bigger than the current one- its on a very big base (compared to the Plasmancer and thralls), and fills it handily. I think its a completely new class of model.
Entyme wrote:I don't think anyone is saying the old Destroyers will be sticking around. We're expecting them to be one of the models to be redesigned in the near future.
I'm actually not at this point. We've seen a lot of stuff now, and nothing that looks like replacements for any of the old destroyer models.
Also, tellingly, everything that is being replaced (Monolith, Warriors) is _gone_ from the store. Destroyers aren't. They're 'temporarily out of stock' (like almost everything else in the range).
Destroyers and flayed ones may well be sticking around as is. A missed opportunity, but GW does that sometimes.
I think it's far more likely Destroyers are staying around (whether as a new kit or as the last holdout of the Green Rod era) than it is they are being "squatted". Destroyer cults have been a big part of Necron lore pretty much since the faction had a name (other than "Chaos Androids"). Removing them would feel kind of like removing Termagants from Tyranids.
Also @Sasori: Fair enough, but that is probably the most enigmatic artwork GW has released in recent memory. It seems to just be generic Xenos. I've yet to see any faction focused artwork featuring anything that isn't a model.
Maybe we should just stop saying X model has been squatted, I remember early in this thread when the new C'Tan was revealed a few people claimed the Nightbringer and deceiver had both been squatted and then later on the hinted at how the deceiver will be useful in 9th edtion. I think its safe to say no necron player expected this many new models with 9th edition, at the start of 7th (I think that's when we got warded) we got 22 new models between all the characters and new kits so we aren't actually up to that point yet so it's not out of the question anyway for us to get new kits
vipoid wrote: Nothing to do with the rules, but it amuses me that 'playing up the horror elements of Necrons' still translates to 'Tomb Kings in SPAAAAAAACE!'
Sorry but I cannot take seriously any model with a foot-long chin. Nor one that appears to be wearing a bead-curtain.
But robes over armor, icons, purity seals, fuckin' squelettons on shields are ok ?
40k has always had this over the top gothic esthetic, nothing new.
Nothing is really horrific in 40k models. The last model that comes to my mind that had a little horror in it is the Infernal Enrapturess, and it's quite soft.
vipoid wrote: Nothing to do with the rules, but it amuses me that 'playing up the horror elements of Necrons' still translates to 'Tomb Kings in SPAAAAAAACE!'
Sorry but I cannot take seriously any model with a foot-long chin. Nor one that appears to be wearing a bead-curtain.
But robes over armor, icons, purity seals, fuckin' squelettons on shields are ok ?
40k has always had this over the top gothic esthetic, nothing new.
But that's my point - I *want* Necrons to be Gothic. Gothic is fine, even if it is over the top.
My issue is that they no longer have a Gothic aesthetic, instead they have an Egyptian/Tomb Kings aesthetic.
Sasori wrote: Silent King and Void Dragon both look excellent.
It's clear the Silent King is going to be a supreme commander super heavy, but I am curious if the Void Dragon is. It's a pretty huge model.
The Void Dragon won't be part of SC detachment, because it's obviously not going to be the Warlord with the whole "enslaved shard" lore shtick. I don't think it will be a Lord of War either but it is very big as you say
The face-off was a bad Joke.
If you want to show how 2 units Play against each other for us players, then you have to use a game-like scenario. That means you have to use at least the 24' distance you have every game. Not this 12' bs that ist already the best range for necrons. For me this face-off only showed that even when you give necrons a hard boost it is really hard for them to win even by a small bit (one of them beeing a hardcore lucky Overlord)
Surtr wrote: The face-off was a bad Joke.
If you want to show how 2 units Play against each other for us players, then you have to use a game-like scenario. That means you have to use at least the 24' distance you have every game. Not this 12' bs that ist already the best range for necrons. For me this face-off only showed that even when you give necrons a hard boost it is really hard for them to win even by a small bit (one of them beeing a hardcore lucky Overlord)
Throwing random units agaiinst each other one on one like this is a very poor way to demonstrate the effectiveness of any of them. Like you wouldn't throw Skorpekhs at Bladeguard, because they have invs and you're losing a lot of their AP on hard targets - you'd send them off to eat Aggressors or regular primaris.
Likewise the Overlord is never getting into a 1vs1 with a Captain, both are buffing character who generally hang back behind their lines.
It was just a hype building exercise for the box and excuse to show off the datasheets.
Surtr wrote: Oh yes datasheets... With abilitys and rules on them that get shown to us. Like RP on a 20 man warrior squat with reroll 1. Or living metal on OL.
Or Not...
Yeah I get it, it wasn't great. No need to turn this into a salt mine over some random GW employees faking rolling some dice to set up a fake showdown between some models to hype their new release.
We got some cool reveals and we're getting a codex. Lets see how the army functions before melting in piles of sarcastic irritated goo.
Wondering what the Void Dragon's schtick will be. Lore says stuff about the lightning and him using it to zap fools, so no shockers there, but lore also mentions his ability to create virtually indestructable warriors, which suggests buffing abilities too.
Surtr wrote: Oh yes datasheets... With abilitys and rules on them that get shown to us. Like RP on a 20 man warrior squat with reroll 1. Or living metal on OL.
Or Not...
Yeah I get it, it wasn't great. No need to turn this into a salt mine over some random GW employees faking rolling some dice to set up a fake showdown between some models to hype their new release.
We got some cool reveals and we're getting a codex. Lets see how the army functions before melting in piles of sarcastic irritated goo.
Wondering what the Void Dragon's schtick will be. Lore says stuff about the lightning and him using it to zap fools, so no shockers there, but lore also mentions his ability to create virtually indestructable warriors, which suggests buffing abilities too.
It'll be really interesting to see, maybe some of his C'tan powers will buff friendly units? Could be an aura ability too
Surtr wrote: Oh yes datasheets... With abilitys and rules on them that get shown to us. Like RP on a 20 man warrior squat with reroll 1. Or living metal on OL.
Or Not...
Yeah I get it, it wasn't great. No need to turn this into a salt mine over some random GW employees faking rolling some dice to set up a fake showdown between some models to hype their new release.
We got some cool reveals and we're getting a codex. Lets see how the army functions before melting in piles of sarcastic irritated goo.
Wondering what the Void Dragon's schtick will be. Lore says stuff about the lightning and him using it to zap fools, so no shockers there, but lore also mentions his ability to create virtually indestructable warriors, which suggests buffing abilities too.
It'll be really interesting to see, maybe some of his C'tan powers will buff friendly units? Could be an aura ability too
The C'Tan never really struck me as altruistic enough to give buffs, but who knows. It's neat that they show the actual shard of the C'Tan (the little hexagon in the chest), and communicate visually that all of the rest of it is generated by the shard. It's also a nice bit of shorthand showing us how many possible shards there are of each c'tan, and it's a ton. He is going to be a right pain in the butt to paint though.
OK I decried people sating it was the void dragon months ago, I was convinced it was a dumb move given the existing fluff has it trapped on Mars. I was wrong about them not doing it, but sadly right that it makes little sense and "oh merrr gawd it are most powerful c'tan evurrrr" except thats has never been said or suggested anywhere.
Surtr wrote: Oh yes datasheets... With abilitys and rules on them that get shown to us. Like RP on a 20 man warrior squat with reroll 1. Or living metal on OL.
Or Not...
Yeah I get it, it wasn't great. No need to turn this into a salt mine over some random GW employees faking rolling some dice to set up a fake showdown between some models to hype their new release.
We got some cool reveals and we're getting a codex. Lets see how the army functions before melting in piles of sarcastic irritated goo.
Wondering what the Void Dragon's schtick will be. Lore says stuff about the lightning and him using it to zap fools, so no shockers there, but lore also mentions his ability to create virtually indestructable warriors, which suggests buffing abilities too.
It'll be really interesting to see, maybe some of his C'tan powers will buff friendly units? Could be an aura ability too
I could see there being some kind of aura or manipulation of our units or vehicles.
Dudeface wrote: OK I decried people sating it was the void dragon months ago, I was convinced it was a dumb move given the existing fluff has it trapped on Mars. I was wrong about them not doing it, but sadly right that it makes little sense and "oh merrr gawd it are most powerful c'tan evurrrr" except thats has never been said or suggested anywhere.
There was that bit of lore about the Necron's attacking Mars with a tiny fleet ages ago. It snuck past defenses and landed on Mars before being destroyed. Given that Necrons can teleport across star systems, it's not much of a stretch to think they could have stolen the shard and warped out.
Also there is other lore about another shard of the void dragon that was stolen off an eldar world. It broke free and destroyed the dynasty that had it, irrc.
Chances are the Martians only had a shard of it, and we could easily have stolen it back.
Dudeface wrote: OK I decried people sating it was the void dragon months ago, I was convinced it was a dumb move given the existing fluff has it trapped on Mars. I was wrong about them not doing it, but sadly right that it makes little sense and "oh merrr gawd it are most powerful c'tan evurrrr" except thats has never been said or suggested anywhere.
Im pretty certain there is some lore somewhere that states even the deceiver wouldn't mess with this guy and he happily messed with the Night bringer
Dudeface wrote: OK I decried people sating it was the void dragon months ago, I was convinced it was a dumb move given the existing fluff has it trapped on Mars. I was wrong about them not doing it, but sadly right that it makes little sense and "oh merrr gawd it are most powerful c'tan evurrrr" except thats has never been said or suggested anywhere.
Im pretty certain there is some lore somewhere that states even the deceiver wouldn't mess with this guy and he happily messed with the Night bringer
As far as I was aware the nightbringer ate the most of his peers and since 3rd ed has been top dog
Dudeface wrote: OK I decried people sating it was the void dragon months ago, I was convinced it was a dumb move given the existing fluff has it trapped on Mars. I was wrong about them not doing it, but sadly right that it makes little sense and "oh merrr gawd it are most powerful c'tan evurrrr" except thats has never been said or suggested anywhere.
Im pretty certain there is some lore somewhere that states even the deceiver wouldn't mess with this guy and he happily messed with the Night bringer
As far as I was aware the nightbringer ate the most of his peers and since 3rd ed has been top dog
Found a quote from lexicanum regarding the Void dragon
"In a transcript of a Vox-communication between one Inquisitor Horst and a Tech-priest, Alagos, the Void Dragon is described as the most powerful of all the Star Gods, having the ability to create almost invincible warriors. "
Surtr wrote: Oh yes datasheets... With abilitys and rules on them that get shown to us. Like RP on a 20 man warrior squat with reroll 1. Or living metal on OL.
Or Not...
Yeah I get it, it wasn't great. No need to turn this into a salt mine over some random GW employees faking rolling some dice to set up a fake showdown between some models to hype their new release.
We got some cool reveals and we're getting a codex. Lets see how the army functions before melting in piles of sarcastic irritated goo.
Wondering what the Void Dragon's schtick will be. Lore says stuff about the lightning and him using it to zap fools, so no shockers there, but lore also mentions his ability to create virtually indestructable warriors, which suggests buffing abilities too.
Sorry about my ranting. It just feels like this face-off gives people a reason to say: 'Look the new Necrons are so strong (to strong) they won the face-off".
I just hoped to learn anything new from it. The only thing we got from this was that the c'tan we knew we where gonna get ist the void Dragon. They just showed us 2 Modells that we already saw a month ago...
Surtr wrote: Oh yes datasheets... With abilitys and rules on them that get shown to us. Like RP on a 20 man warrior squat with reroll 1. Or living metal on OL.
Or Not...
Yeah I get it, it wasn't great. No need to turn this into a salt mine over some random GW employees faking rolling some dice to set up a fake showdown between some models to hype their new release.
We got some cool reveals and we're getting a codex. Lets see how the army functions before melting in piles of sarcastic irritated goo.
Wondering what the Void Dragon's schtick will be. Lore says stuff about the lightning and him using it to zap fools, so no shockers there, but lore also mentions his ability to create virtually indestructable warriors, which suggests buffing abilities too.
Sorry about my ranting. It just feels like this face-off gives people a reason to say: 'Look the new Necrons are so strong (to strong) they won the face-off".
I just hoped to learn anything new from it. The only thing we got from this was that the c'tan we knew we where gonna get ist the void Dragon. They just showed us 2 Modells that we already saw a month ago...
No worries, i get it. But this is basically the best time for Necrons in a long time. Sure they showed two models we've seen before, but only because of a leak and only from a distance. Also we now know that it's the Void Dragon.
One other minor thing I picked up on was that when they described the Skorpkeh Lord's flensing claw in the chat, they said it was a bigger version of what your Flayed Ones have. That says to me that a: Flayed Ones still a thing, so maybe new models? and b. Flayed ones with Ap-1 in melee finally.
Even in the nothing and PR bluster, there is some stuff to be excited about.
We won't know how strong we are until the book comes. Even things that seem bad in isolation could have synergies or upgrades in the book that we don't know about. I think given that we've sucked for almost all of 8th edition, we should try to be optimistic. At the very least, we now have lots of new and interesting ways to suck lol.
From War of Sigmar (the building in the upper left is most likely a custom terrain piece for the codex photography - EDIT The arms are off of the old Monolith)):
It also looks like a few kits have been removed from the online store (the Monolith and Necron Warriors).
Wonder if the platform itself is weaponized. The two side towers do look like Tesla weaponry. Bit I can't see anything in particular on the floater throne. But the CTan husk likely is powering something, and two lords are required to control it.
Dudeface wrote: OK I decried people sating it was the void dragon months ago, I was convinced it was a dumb move given the existing fluff has it trapped on Mars. I was wrong about them not doing it, but sadly right that it makes little sense and "oh merrr gawd it are most powerful c'tan evurrrr" except thats has never been said or suggested anywhere.
Im pretty certain there is some lore somewhere that states even the deceiver wouldn't mess with this guy and he happily messed with the Night bringer
As far as I was aware the nightbringer ate the most of his peers and since 3rd ed has been top dog
Found a quote from lexicanum regarding the Void dragon
"In a transcript of a Vox-communication between one Inquisitor Horst and a Tech-priest, Alagos, the Void Dragon is described as the most powerful of all the Star Gods, having the ability to create almost invincible warriors. "
Necron codex 8th edition: "Though the nightbringers power has been broken, the shards that remain are still the most powerful of their kind."
Like I say they changed their tune a bit quickly for my tastes.
Blndmage wrote: Who else is looking at the lighting arcs connecting to the bases and expecting them to break pretty easy?
If they can do a model like this on a 60mm base and not have it break, then I'm not really worried about the Silent King...
Spoiler:
I was actually busy converting that model into a Nightbringer. The connection to the base is surprisingly solid. That spindly little arm is another story.
I actually think there's likely 1 more kit coming our way, and it's NOT the model that's hiding behind the Monolith. Flayed Ones. Probably the kit that was in the most need of an update, and with Games workshop trying to move away from Finecast, AND with their recent involvement in some recent stories, I'm confident that there's going to be a new Flayed One kit coming at some point.
yeah, not fond of it. The old Nightbringer is both atmospheric and graceful. The Greater Daemons look great. This new Ctan has some neat ideas but overall, meh.
Darsath wrote: I actually think there's likely 1 more kit coming our way, and it's NOT the model that's hiding behind the Monolith. Flayed Ones. Probably the kit that was in the most need of an update, and with Games workshop trying to move away from Finecast, AND with their recent involvement in some recent stories, I'm confident that there's going to be a new Flayed One kit coming at some point.
This would be nice, but I'm not counting on it. I'd love a new kit with Plastic Flayed ones that are more like the Metal ones.
What's interesting is that the destroyers are still up on the GW website. Warriors and Monolith are gone, which suggests that regular destroyers might be remaining
Overread wrote: What's interesting is that the destroyers are still up on the GW website. Warriors and Monolith are gone, which suggests that regular destroyers might be remaining
I wouldn't read that much into it. The Heavy Destroyer upgrade pack is still available as well.
Overread wrote: What's interesting is that the destroyers are still up on the GW website. Warriors and Monolith are gone, which suggests that regular destroyers might be remaining
Could also be that the Lokhust are being released a little bit after the Monolith and Warriors.
torblind wrote: Wonder if the platform itself is weaponized. The two side towers do look like Tesla weaponry. Bit I can't see anything in particular on the floater throne. But the CTan husk likely is powering something, and two lords are required to control it.
In one of the other photos the silent king his supreme command barge thing showed gauss weapons. I'd assume you'll have a couple options
torblind wrote: Wonder if the platform itself is weaponized. The two side towers do look like Tesla weaponry. Bit I can't see anything in particular on the floater throne. But the CTan husk likely is powering something, and two lords are required to control it.
In one of the other photos the silent king his supreme command barge thing showed gauss weapons. I'd assume you'll have a couple options
You can see a 360 degree pic of the Silent King in the teaser video. I don't see any gauss weapons...
I can see where people are coming from, but personally i like the model. It, to me, looks like it should
When you read descriptions of the Dragon of Mars and when you heard the name "Void Dragon" what came to your mind is a naked dude with a tail and wings as opposed to, say, something that looks anything like a dragon?
The tail looks particularly stupid, like it was haphazardly slapped onto the design when the designer realized "Oh gak he's supposed to be a dragon, right?"
That said its a very cool looking model! Very much in GW's current "Massive impractical design of massive enjoy transporting me" category Then again with monoliths the Necrons are going to be a trickier force to transport in general (two bags)
I am really liking the look of the new models, though jury is still out on how they will be to build and paint obviously.
I think the new C'tan fits better with the Necron line. Though nice looking sculpts (if not well designed) I always thought the Deceiver and Night Bringer felt out of place on the tabletop next to the other Necron models. In fact I think their most effective presentation on the tabletop was when they were being used as proxies for non-Necron characters.
As for the apparent ret-con of the Void Bringer's place in the C'tan hierarchy, I really can't be bothered by it and certainly won't break my sense of immersion.
Blndmage wrote: Who else is looking at the lighting arcs connecting to the bases and expecting them to break pretty easy?
If they can do a model like this on a 60mm base and not have it break, then I'm not really worried about the Silent King...
Spoiler:
Funny you bring up Olynder since the first complaint you'll hear from Nighthaunts players about their army is how dangerously breakable she is. I've seen tactics videos offer suggestions on how to add stuff to the base to stabilize her a little.
I can see where people are coming from, but personally i like the model. It, to me, looks like it should
When you read descriptions of the Dragon of Mars and when you heard the name "Void Dragon" what came to your mind is a naked dude with a tail and wings as opposed to, say, something that looks anything like a dragon?
The tail looks particularly stupid, like it was haphazardly slapped onto the design when the designer realized "Oh gak he's supposed to be a dragon, right?"
I can see where people are coming from, but personally i like the model. It, to me, looks like it should
When you read descriptions of the Dragon of Mars and when you heard the name "Void Dragon" what came to your mind is a naked dude with a tail and wings as opposed to, say, something that looks anything like a dragon?
The tail looks particularly stupid, like it was haphazardly slapped onto the design when the designer realized "Oh gak he's supposed to be a dragon, right?"
I like the body, and somewhat the head. Its just... everything else globbed on there.
And the putty lightning in particularly doesn't look finished. I can see what they were trying for, but the constraints of casting it and using it as support material clearly got in the way of making it look good.
Which happens pretty much every time they try this kind of 'scenic' pose.
I can see where people are coming from, but personally i like the model. It, to me, looks like it should
When you read descriptions of the Dragon of Mars and when you heard the name "Void Dragon" what came to your mind is a naked dude with a tail and wings as opposed to, say, something that looks anything like a dragon?
The tail looks particularly stupid, like it was haphazardly slapped onto the design when the designer realized "Oh gak he's supposed to be a dragon, right?"
I can see where people are coming from, but personally i like the model. It, to me, looks like it should
When you read descriptions of the Dragon of Mars and when you heard the name "Void Dragon" what came to your mind is a naked dude with a tail and wings as opposed to, say, something that looks anything like a dragon?
The tail looks particularly stupid, like it was haphazardly slapped onto the design when the designer realized "Oh gak he's supposed to be a dragon, right?"
The more I look at it, the more it looks like the tail and the wings are necron artifice attached to the shard, maybe some kind of canoptek creature similar to what we see in the tesseract vault. It seems like a bit of visual storytelling, the shard generating the body, the void in place of a face with the symbol of the triarch blazing in the void, the obvious discontinuities in the body where the shard is struggling to maintain it's form.
As for the void dragon, you might be taking that a smidge literally, is the nightbringer made out of night? The Names of the C'Tan are totemic of what their nature is, so void dragon tells us about him rather than describes his appearance, since all of the C'Tan appear to take the shape of idealized humanoid figures. My guess for the direction they are going to take with him is some play on "Here be dragons" annotations in old maps, he represents an unknowable terror from the void, so alien to life that we can barely begin to understand him.
Fair point on him not looking like a dragon. Ive always heard the Void Dragon as the master of the material so I figured he could change shape. To me the model looks eldritch and powerful, wreathed in lightning. I could be wrong but the tail and wings look to be part of a Canoptek creature. Not the best model but I like it
Kharne the Befriender wrote: I could be wrong but the tail and wings look to be part of a Canoptek creature. Not the best model but I like it
There is some sort of device attached to his back that looks reminiscent of the Destroyer's hover platform. You can see it clearly if you run the YouTube video back at one quarter speed.
It looks like someone edited the void dragon entry today, and added what looks to be a bunch of spoilers for the upcoming Necron codex. They also added an explanation of how the nightbringer started the most powerful of the C'Tan, and the void dragon ended the most powerful. Basically the night bringer got chunked in his battle with the eldar gods, and his scythe was banished into the warp.
Grimgold wrote: It looks like someone edited the void dragon entry today, and added what looks to be a bunch of spoilers for the upcoming Necron codex. They also added an explanation of how the nightbringer started the most powerful of the C'Tan, and the void dragon ended the most powerful. Basically the night bringer got chunked in his battle with the eldar gods, and his scythe was banished into the warp.
If that's from the Fandom Wiki, most of the fluff on there isn't super accurate. It's like a hodgepodge of stuff that's picked and extrapolated.
Wondering if someone would mind explaining something for me, just watched a YouTube video and a guy was explaining what models are losing out in 9th edition.
He said that due to the changes to morale and unit coherency small elite groups lose out and large infantry groups lose out (he might has well have just said everyone in my opinion) but I don't see how, surely with the changes to morale in some ways its better?
I understand say a group of Necron warriors gets shot and you lose 9 guys under old rules if you rolled a 6 you would lose 5 more guys. Under new rules you lose 1 and then roll a d6 so statically speaking you might lose 2 more guys.
I do understand if you go under half strength you lose then on a roll of a 2 so say you lose 11 dudes you would probably lose 3 more but that's still better then what we would've lose under old rules right
Or am I missing something completely and misinterpreting the rules?
Morale technically hurts MSU as losing a model to morale hurts them more than it does to hordes. Everyone has a 1/6 chance of dying. If you lose 2 models from a 12 model unit that's 1/6 of the unit gone. If you lose 1 model from a six man unit that's still 1/6 of the unit gone. Each loss hurts more in terms of models lost.
Coherency hurts hordes as you have to micromanage more to make sure that everything is within 2" of 2 other models. If you fail to ensure this you immediately lose models.
You lose a model to attrition on 1-2's if you're under half strength. So lose three models on a five-man squad you've significantly increased your chances of losing the rest of the squad to morale. If those models were in a 10 man squad instead you would have had to lose more models before that becomes an issue.
I think I'd have to see it to believe this actually hurts MSU (factions that can MSU effectively have high enough leadership they don't lose models to morale). It is definitely better for large squads than the old rule was.
Arachnofiend wrote: You lose a model to attrition on 1-2's if you're under half strength. So lose three models on a five-man squad you've significantly increased your chances of losing the rest of the squad to morale. If those models were in a 10 man squad instead you would have had to lose more models before that becomes an issue.
I think I'd have to see it to believe this actually hurts MSU (factions that can MSU effectively have high enough leadership they don't lose models to morale). It is definitely better for large squads than the old rule was.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that part of the rule.
Yeah, you need to lose more models with a large squad before it goes critical.
Necrons have the advantage compared to most factions, imo. Necrons can run both MSU and horde and the ubiquitous LD10 means that in either case we aren't going to be losing that many models.
Arachnofiend wrote: You lose a model to attrition on 1-2's if you're under half strength. So lose three models on a five-man squad you've significantly increased your chances of losing the rest of the squad to morale. If those models were in a 10 man squad instead you would have had to lose more models before that becomes an issue.
I think I'd have to see it to believe this actually hurts MSU (factions that can MSU effectively have high enough leadership they don't lose models to morale). It is definitely better for large squads than the old rule was.
Pretty much this.
This is a rule where the proof will be in the playing. On paper it has its ups and downs depending on unit size. I for one quite like that, as it’s another issue to consider when list building. MSU in the days of freely split fire isn’t what it used to be. And again, with freely split fire, large units are more flexible.
But when I’m potentially risking more punishing Ld Tests when half strength, I may not max out Warrior Squads.
Oh, speaking of Warrior Squads, now it’s confirmed we can freely mix their weapon options, do people feel differently about the new weapon? Apologies if this has been discussed already.
I don't think the consensus has changed. The short range appears at this point to be crippling and all we can do is wait to see if the codex gives the tools needed to make up the difference. I'll build some with it just because it looks cool but don't expect much because right now it is absurdly situational
Marshal Loss wrote: I don't think the consensus has changed. The short range appears at this point to be crippling and all we can do is wait to see if the codex gives the tools needed to make up the difference. I'll build some with it just because it looks cool but don't expect much because right now it is absurdly situational
There are some niche uses for them. Sling 10 in a ghost ark and use the Deceiver to yeet it up the field, the unit inside can dismebark and move into rapid fire range.
If Ghost Arks become open topped, they're also interesting. If Night Scythes stop sucking, interesting again.
But generally, flayers are better as they're more versatile. I don't see much point in mixing weapons.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Morale technically hurts MSU as losing a model to morale hurts them more than it does to hordes.
Everyone has a 1/6 chance of dying.
If you lose 2 models from a 12 model unit that's 1/6 of the unit gone.
If you lose 1 model from a six man unit that's still 1/6 of the unit gone. Each loss hurts more in terms of models lost.
There is still a morale test and you have fail the morale test first, before you get to attrition
Lose three models:
d6+3 is always less than 10. No morale losses
Lose four models
d6+4 is at worst equal to 10. No morale losses.
Morale isn't an issue for MSU Necrons.
Maybe if the enemy invests really, really heavily in leadership penalties, but even if they've maxed it out at -3, you're still only failing 50% of the time after taking 3 casualties, which is poor return on their investment.
Marshal Loss wrote: I don't think the consensus has changed. The short range appears at this point to be crippling and all we can do is wait to see if the codex gives the tools needed to make up the difference. I'll build some with it just because it looks cool but don't expect much because right now it is absurdly situational
There are some niche uses for them. Sling 10 in a ghost ark and use the Deceiver to yeet it up the field, the unit inside can dismebark and move into rapid fire range.
If Ghost Arks become open topped, they're also interesting. If Night Scythes stop sucking, interesting again.
But generally, flayers are better as they're more versatile. I don't see much point in mixing weapons.
I've started to warm up more to them. I've seen a few 9th ed batreps so far, and with how important control midfield is, I don't think the short range is going to be as much of a problem as I theorized it would.
It also would seem we have more mobility now as well, we've got the VoD, Night Scythes, Arks, the new Sarstele, possibly the monolith.
I think the Royal Wardens ability is going to be a pretty big boon for the army, your 20 warriors with Reaper get into combat? Ressurect (If that's how it still works), pull out of combat, melt whats in front of you.
This paired with our decent tarpit units actually seems like a great combination
Marshal Loss wrote: I don't think the consensus has changed. The short range appears at this point to be crippling and all we can do is wait to see if the codex gives the tools needed to make up the difference. I'll build some with it just because it looks cool but don't expect much because right now it is absurdly situational
There are some niche uses for them. Sling 10 in a ghost ark and use the Deceiver to yeet it up the field, the unit inside can dismebark and move into rapid fire range.
If Ghost Arks become open topped, they're also interesting. If Night Scythes stop sucking, interesting again.
But generally, flayers are better as they're more versatile. I don't see much point in mixing weapons.
I've started to warm up more to them. I've seen a few 9th ed batreps so far, and with how important control midfield is, I don't think the short range is going to be as much of a problem as I theorized it would.
I've been thinking of using them with strategic reserves.
You have to wait until turn 3, but suddenly dropping a unit of 20 reaper warriors in your opponent's flank sounds like a nasty surprise, especially if he has artillery.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kharne the Befriender wrote: It also would seem we have more mobility now as well, we've got the VoD, Night Scythes, Arks, the new Sarstele, possibly the monolith.
I think the Royal Wardens ability is going to be a pretty big boon for the army, your 20 warriors with Reaper get into combat? Ressurect (If that's how it still works), pull out of combat, melt whats in front of you.
This paired with our decent tarpit units actually seems like a great combination
Kharne the Befriender wrote: It also would seem we have more mobility now as well, we've got the VoD, Night Scythes, Arks, the new Sarstele, possibly the monolith.
I think the Royal Wardens ability is going to be a pretty big boon for the army, your 20 warriors with Reaper get into combat? Ressurect (If that's how it still works), pull out of combat, melt whats in front of you.
This paired with our decent tarpit units actually seems like a great combination
Marshal Loss wrote: I don't think the consensus has changed. The short range appears at this point to be crippling and all we can do is wait to see if the codex gives the tools needed to make up the difference. I'll build some with it just because it looks cool but don't expect much because right now it is absurdly situational
There are some niche uses for them. Sling 10 in a ghost ark and use the Deceiver to yeet it up the field, the unit inside can dismebark and move into rapid fire range.
If Ghost Arks become open topped, they're also interesting. If Night Scythes stop sucking, interesting again.
But generally, flayers are better as they're more versatile. I don't see much point in mixing weapons.
I've started to warm up more to them. I've seen a few 9th ed batreps so far, and with how important control midfield is, I don't think the short range is going to be as much of a problem as I theorized it would.
I've been thinking of using them with strategic reserves.
You have to wait until turn 3, but suddenly dropping a unit of 20 reaper warriors in your opponent's flank sounds like a nasty surprise, especially if he has artillery.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kharne the Befriender wrote: It also would seem we have more mobility now as well, we've got the VoD, Night Scythes, Arks, the new Sarstele, possibly the monolith.
I think the Royal Wardens ability is going to be a pretty big boon for the army, your 20 warriors with Reaper get into combat? Ressurect (If that's how it still works), pull out of combat, melt whats in front of you.
This paired with our decent tarpit units actually seems like a great combination
What's a Sarstele?
Starstele is the name for the individual pieces of the Convergence of Dominion.
Each Convergence of Dominion consists of three Starstele (they’re the big obelisk-type things), which are seriously durable and armed with impressively deadly transdimensional abductors! Even better, they bolster units from your dynasty that are nearby and, with the help of a friendly Cryptek, can perform Translocation Protocols to redeploy across the battlefield. Yeah… these are great.
I’m thrilled with the new Necrons. They’re a good mixture of hard sci fi and fantasy horror. In other words, a perfect faction for a space opera like 40k.
Does anyone know if the Celestial Lions chapter have tangled with Necrons? I’m looking an excuse to keep both sides of the starter box lol.
Love the new Szarekhan Dynasty Necron colour scheme but don’t know how to replicate it yourself? Some superb new paints are entering the range next weekend, making getting your legion Battle Ready easy. From rich metallics to vibrant technicals, these paints aren’t just for Necron players but anyone looking to upgrade their collection. We’ll also be releasing a spray version of Runelord Brass later in the year – so keep an eye out for it!
Spoiler:
From Facebook:
Facebook Poster wrote:I’d love an article on the four new paints so we can see what they do and how they look on their own.
Warhammer TV wrote:We may take a separate look at them soon.
So I'm thinking we may see them on the Twitch 'Hobby Clinic' on Tuesday or via a Warhammer Community article.
Kharne the Befriender wrote: It also would seem we have more mobility now as well, we've got the VoD, Night Scythes, Arks, the new Sarstele, possibly the monolith.
I think the Royal Wardens ability is going to be a pretty big boon for the army, your 20 warriors with Reaper get into combat? Ressurect (If that's how it still works), pull out of combat, melt whats in front of you.
This paired with our decent tarpit units actually seems like a great combination
Yeah, if new RP somehow allow us revive dead units (with an orb maybe), warriors blob may work with support.
11+ models squads are quite handicaped by 9th changes, but if the meta become MSU heavy, blast will also become less common (as blast weapons seems to have bigger increases in points),.
New unit coherency will need a little time to get used to, but will be manageable i my opinion.
The warden already remove one of the big issue of the warrior blog of 8th (being in close combat). We should still have immortal pride or something equivalent (and morale is less devastating for big units). I hope RP is the last piece of puzzle, and if it indeed is, warriors could become playable, even good.
Kharne the Befriender wrote: It also would seem we have more mobility now as well, we've got the VoD, Night Scythes, Arks, the new Sarstele, possibly the monolith.
I think the Royal Wardens ability is going to be a pretty big boon for the army, your 20 warriors with Reaper get into combat? Ressurect (If that's how it still works), pull out of combat, melt whats in front of you.
This paired with our decent tarpit units actually seems like a great combination
Yeah, if new RP somehow allow us revive dead units (with an orb maybe), warriors blob may work with support.
11+ models squads are quite handicaped by 9th changes, but if the meta become MSU heavy, blast will also become less common (as blast weapons seems to have bigger increases in points),.
New unit coherency will need a little time to get used to, but will be manageable i my opinion.
The warden already remove one of the big issue of the warrior blog of 8th (being in close combat). We should still have immortal pride or something equivalent (and morale is less devastating for big units). I hope RP is the last piece of puzzle, and if it indeed is, warriors could become playable, even good.
Keeping them hidden behind terrain is gonna be key. Sure, stuff like Astra Militarum will get a lot of blast shots, but if you force them to fire through dense terrain, they're gonna be hitting on 5s. And hide behind Obscuring terrain, they gotta move up to it to shoot, making it easier to tag those blast weapon tanks next turn.
Blast will be scary, but it's a game of tradeoffs. If you wanna drive your leman russ up, I'm happy to tag it with 9 scarabs. Good luck clearing 36 wounds with your heavy bolter sponsons buddy.
Scarabs with the new overwatch (unless you play against Tau) should be very interesting even in squad of 3 to tag units.
With the warden you can also disengage, shoot with another units and charge again (or elsewhere).
As fall back with fly doesn't allow you to shoot anymore, cheap expandable fast units like scarabs will become a pain to manage, giving breathing room for the heavy hitters to do their job.
I can understand how short range could seem an issue. After playing Farsight in a couple of tournaments and playing aggresively to control the mid field and my opponent objetives I have realized how easy is to have their buffs active (both the 12" and 6" ones)
If the heavy Gauss Canon is being replaced by the Gauss destructor then will that affect the Triarch stalker and its Twin heavy gauss cannon?
Also and this is just a while guess but considering the enmitic weapon on the Lord is 2D3 Str 6 -1 1 damage I'm thinking maybe the Heavy destroyer version might be 2d6Str 8 -2 d3 damage, just a complete guess on my part but its a huge gun in comparison to what the Lord uses (though I get comparing gun size doesn't translate into stats
Starstele is the name for the individual pieces of the Convergence of Dominion.
Each Convergence of Dominion consists of three Starstele (they’re the big obelisk-type things), which are seriously durable and armed with impressively deadly transdimensional abductors! Even better, they bolster units from your dynasty that are nearby and, with the help of a friendly Cryptek, can perform Translocation Protocols to redeploy across the battlefield. Yeah… these are great.
Hmm. Missed the name of these when looking at the article.
The 'star' part annoys me, but stele in general have some interesting historical counterparts that would work well with the necrons. In the ancient Mesopotamia they were often erected by kings of various city states as... bragging records of their yearly campaigns.
A general 'Lo, I am so great, for in the eighth year of my reign, my conquests brought home 50 horses, 75 cattle, 8 wagons of copper and 10 pallets of wood. At the village of Suchandsuch we slaughtered three dozens, and the village of Thatotherplace, we did kill four score, and the village of Wrapitupalready, they abjectly surrendered and promised us 20 fatted hogs and half again as many the next year. So recorded, King the Mighty of Cityname'
But that on a galactic sector scale, and that could be what the outer 'stone' layer is, with all the necron glyphs. Though obviously there isn't any counter part for the unit buffing and teleporting inside mechanisms.
Aza'Gorod wrote: If the heavy Gauss Canon is being replaced by the Gauss destructor then will that affect the Triarch stalker and its Twin heavy gauss cannon?
Also and this is just a while guess but considering the enmitic weapon on the Lord is 2D3 Str 6 -1 1 damage I'm thinking maybe the Heavy destroyer version might be 2d6Str 8 -2 d3 damage, just a complete guess on my part but its a huge gun in comparison to what the Lord uses (though I get comparing gun size doesn't translate into stats
The profile for the Twin Heavy Guass Cannon could change, but I don't think it's likely.
If I were to guess, the Enmitic weapon on the Lokhust is going to be anti-elite infantry weapon. I could see it being something like 3D3 or more shots, with Ap -1-2 and damage 1-2. The Gauss looks like it is still going to be the anti-tank weapon.
Marshal Loss wrote: I don't think the consensus has changed. The short range appears at this point to be crippling and all we can do is wait to see if the codex gives the tools needed to make up the difference. I'll build some with it just because it looks cool but don't expect much because right now it is absurdly situational
There are some niche uses for them. Sling 10 in a ghost ark and use the Deceiver to yeet it up the field, the unit inside can dismebark and move into rapid fire range.
If Ghost Arks become open topped, they're also interesting. If Night Scythes stop sucking, interesting again.
But generally, flayers are better as they're more versatile. I don't see much point in mixing weapons.
I play against death guard a lot and the reapers at max range will still hurt plague marines more than flayers in rapid fire range from my napkin maths.
I'm not sure comparing a 12 pts troop choice with a 31 pts (in 8th) heavy support one is fair for warriors.
Sure Dark Reapers are better to shoot sturdy things. But point for point they are also much more fragile.
With a higher density in terrain, smaller tables and strategic reserves, static gunline may be less dominant in 9th.
I think my biggest concern is that Necrons still won't be viable without 3 DDAs, because all our other anti-tank is still garbage, in spite of both the new models and the revised rules.
Marshal Loss wrote: I don't think the consensus has changed. The short range appears at this point to be crippling and all we can do is wait to see if the codex gives the tools needed to make up the difference. I'll build some with it just because it looks cool but don't expect much because right now it is absurdly situational
There are some niche uses for them. Sling 10 in a ghost ark and use the Deceiver to yeet it up the field, the unit inside can dismebark and move into rapid fire range.
If Ghost Arks become open topped, they're also interesting. If Night Scythes stop sucking, interesting again.
But generally, flayers are better as they're more versatile. I don't see much point in mixing weapons.
I play against death guard a lot and the reapers at max range will still hurt plague marines more than flayers in rapid fire range from my napkin maths.
Your napkin maths is wrong. 40 S4 AP-1 shots kill 2.963 plague marines; 20 S5 AP-2 shots kill 2.963 plague marines as well, making the end output identical; the flayers cause more unsaved wounds which is compensated for on average by inferior saves thanks to the reapers' AP-2. You can check for yourself here. Against T4 targets, e.g. Primaris, the flayers are far superior in the 8"-12" window you outlined. But this doesn't take into account the larger point, which is that the flayer still has 10" on the reaper, and while the latter is obviously going to do horrible things to any target in short range, even on a terrain heavy board you're going to get far more volleys in with the flayers than you will with the reapers.
As I said in my original post, the reaper is at best very situational and all of the suggestions on this thread thus far require you to build heavily around it. I'm not at all sold but for all we know the codex may provide tools making it a more attractive option
edit: this is the last time I try to write something on my phone what an editing nightmare
Added to yesterday's Sunday Preview article on Warhammer Community:
Also available at launch is a selection of essential gaming accessories – a collection of objectives for your battlefield, a combat gauge for those key mini-measurements, and a themed carrying case! These will only be available while stocks last, so make sure to grab them while you can.
vipoid wrote: I think my biggest concern is that Necrons still won't be viable without 3 DDAs, because all our other anti-tank is still garbage, in spite of both the new models and the revised rules.
We have the Doomstalker and Lokhust Destroyer coming in on the anti-tank front. I'm also think Triarch Stalkers are going to be excellent in 9th, particularly heat ray version.
New monolith also looks like it has heat ray type sponson options. And in a pinch, the Skorpekhs can mess up armor in combat with some strat support. Not to mention we still have scarabs, one of the best tagging units in the game.
I think DDAs will still be great (and I'm so glad I've already got my three built because feth that model), but I don't think we'll be leaning on them quite as heavily.
Marshal Loss wrote: I don't think the consensus has changed. The short range appears at this point to be crippling and all we can do is wait to see if the codex gives the tools needed to make up the difference. I'll build some with it just because it looks cool but don't expect much because right now it is absurdly situational
There are some niche uses for them. Sling 10 in a ghost ark and use the Deceiver to yeet it up the field, the unit inside can dismebark and move into rapid fire range.
If Ghost Arks become open topped, they're also interesting. If Night Scythes stop sucking, interesting again.
But generally, flayers are better as they're more versatile. I don't see much point in mixing weapons.
I play against death guard a lot and the reapers at max range will still hurt plague marines more than flayers in rapid fire range from my napkin maths.
Your napkin maths is wrong. 40 S4 AP-1 shots kill 2.963 plague marines; 20 S5 AP-2 shots kill 2.963 plague marines as well, making the end output identical; the flayers cause more unsaved wounds which is compensated for on average by inferior saves thanks to the reapers' AP-2. You can check for yourself here. Against T4 targets, e.g. Primaris, the flayers are far superior in the 8"-12" window you outlined. But this doesn't take into account the larger point, which is that the flayer still has 10" on the reaper, and while the latter is obviously going to do horrible things to any target in short range, even on a terrain heavy board you're going to get far more volleys in with the flayers than you will with the reapers.
As I said in my original post, the reaper is at best very situational and all of the suggestions on this thread thus far require you to build heavily around it. I'm not at all sold but for all we know the codex may provide tools making it a more attractive option
edit: this is the last time I try to write something on my phone what an editing nightmare
I'll take them not being mathematically worse, I understand the value of the extra range, but if they're a unit plodding up field then flayers are the obvious choice, if they're dropping in or coming off a board edge it's nice to at least have the option of a different loadout.
After watching a few 9E Batreps, I for sure have softened my stance on the Gauss reapers. With holding the Midfield being so important I can see them having a place with a Royal Warden. Taking warriors at all though is going to depend on how RP ends up doing though.
I'm going to at the very least play test them, when before I had just kind of written them off.
Sasori wrote: After watching a few 9E Batreps, I for sure have softened my stance on the Gauss reapers. With holding the Midfield being so important I can see them having a place with a Royal Warden. Taking warriors at all though is going to depend on how RP ends up doing though.
I'm going to at the very least play test them, when before I had just kind of written them off.
I plan to play test them, too. I think everyone is a little disappointed that they weren't 18inch assault weapons. Also, it was a little bit of a let down that they were just very watered-down gauss blasters.
I will say, as much as I'm reserving judgment and looking at things in a positive way, I don't have much hope for gauss reapers. Even if the ghost ark is open topped, I just don't see them outweighing the utility and flexibility of 10 extra inches of range.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ghaz wrote: Added to yesterday's Sunday Preview article on Warhammer Community:
Also available at launch is a selection of essential gaming accessories – a collection of objectives for your battlefield, a combat gauge for those key mini-measurements, and a themed carrying case! These will only be available while stocks last, so make sure to grab them while you can.
I think I'll build my indomitus warriors with the reapers, because I already have 40 of them with flayers, so even if they are terrible it's not like I'm out anything. We don't know the rules for necrons yet, so there might be a stratagem or something that makes reapers good, and if I guess wrong they'll look really cool riding the bench next to my obelisk.
Oh yeah, all my Indomitus warriors (and theoretically the NOS box I have plus some immortal spares) are all gonna become Reaper dudes, simply because I have more than sufficient flayers already
torblind wrote: Wonder if the platform itself is weaponized. The two side towers do look like Tesla weaponry. Bit I can't see anything in particular on the floater throne. But the CTan husk likely is powering something, and two lords are required to control it.
In one of the other photos the silent king his supreme command barge thing showed gauss weapons. I'd assume you'll have a couple options
You can see a 360 degree pic of the Silent King in the teaser video. I don't see any gauss weapons...
I don't think it was a video. Just a picture. I could be wrong.
Was watching a bat rep and one of the guys let slip living metal is going to D3, unless he was thinking phylactery. That's just a flat upgrade from the previous rule if it's true.
I have 80 warriors.
I'm not sure if I need more flayers, but I kind of want reapers because its a new weapon on a new warrior model.
I might not get indomitus though. I don't want marines and selling them on Ebay sounds like a hassel.
Maybe I'll find someone to split the box at my FLGS, I dunno.
I wouldn't be surprised if there are quite a few Necrons on eBay come the 26th of July. The SM side of the box is going to be much more popular, leaving quite a few people looking to sell the Necron half. You may find you can get what you need buying just the rulebook and then going to eBay, or speaking to someone at your store.
Radikus wrote: Was watching a bat rep and one of the guys let slip living metal is going to D3, unless he was thinking phylactery. That's just a flat upgrade from the previous rule if it's true.
If you're talking about the StrikingScorpion83 Batrep, it's because he took the Cryptek with Canoptekh Cloak.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I might not get indomitus though. I don't want marines and selling them on Ebay sounds like a hassel.
Maybe I'll find someone to split the box at my FLGS, I dunno.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I might not get indomitus though. I don't want marines and selling them on Ebay sounds like a hassel.
Maybe I'll find someone to split the box at my FLGS, I dunno.
Trust me its not hard.
My brother offered to split the box with me the day it was announced and I've had two other offers from hopeful Spess Mahreen players since then.
Kharne the Befriender wrote: I've been searching around my area for necron halves, would 6 be too many? What would be a good price to offer someone for the necron half? 100$? 80$?
What would you do with 6? Nothing suggests 120 warriors are going to be significantly better than now, you certainly don't need 6 of any of the characters, or the reanimator. The Skorpekh destroyers may actually be a problem if they do a real kit with unit options and the boxed set version is stuck with a lackluster weapon setup.
Even if you don't subscribe to 'the meta,' more than one or two units is more of a burden than a boon.
They will be slightly more resilient to morale damage, in that the enemy will need to kill 19 rather than 15 to be absolutely certain the unit dies.
Still very unconvinced by the Gauss Reaper. It's strictly superior in the ranges 0-7" and 12-14", and always better vs T8/9 and exactly T5 2+. The flayer has such a huge ranged advantage where you can't be kited around and the few times it's worse, you're not that much worse anyway that on paper I think it's still generally better. Now, it could be that something lets warriors rapid fire at full range or some other buff which makes the 14" a fantastic midrange killer but for now, meh.
I will say that I feel much better about the new destroyers and the plasmancer. Not entirely sure how it'll play out in the long run but due to the massive amount of midfield play, it feels like the destroyers can be quite deadly, yet not quite scary enough to focus down compared to our shooting, which is a really interesting spot for them. As for the plasmancer, same thing - decent weapon but the abilities are genuinely very powerful. Now, the reanimator still looks rubbish and the plasmacyte is still a joke, but I feel better about it than I did before. Eradicators are still dumb to fight, we still may have AT issues, but things are a bit brighter than before.
Eyjio wrote: Still very unconvinced by the Gauss Reaper. It's strictly superior in the ranges 0-7" and 12-14", and always better vs T8/9 and exactly T5 2+. The flayer has such a huge ranged advantage where you can't be kited around and the few times it's worse, you're not that much worse anyway that on paper I think it's still generally better. Now, it could be that something lets warriors rapid fire at full range or some other buff which makes the 14" a fantastic midrange killer but for now, meh.
I will say that I feel much better about the new destroyers and the plasmancer. Not entirely sure how it'll play out in the long run but due to the massive amount of midfield play, it feels like the destroyers can be quite deadly, yet not quite scary enough to focus down compared to our shooting, which is a really interesting spot for them. As for the plasmancer, same thing - decent weapon but the abilities are genuinely very powerful. Now, the reanimator still looks rubbish and the plasmacyte is still a joke, but I feel better about it than I did before. Eradicators are still dumb to fight, we still may have AT issues, but things are a bit brighter than before.
Why are you not a fan of the Plasmacyte? Assuming in the regular Dex the Destroyers are 3-6, it seems really good. The buff can be extremely relevant, getting to strength 8 on the reap blade. Worst case, it can take something like a Lascannon shot if needed to keep the rest of the unit alive. yeah, the 1 in 6 chance to kill a destroyer isn't amazing, but if RP is improved it may not be that huge.
I've also revised my opinion of the Plasmancer as well. My main concern is it seems like our HQ slot going to be super competitive now.
Kharne the Befriender wrote: I've been searching around my area for necron halves, would 6 be too many? What would be a good price to offer someone for the necron half? 100$? 80$?
What would you do with 6? Nothing suggests 120 warriors are going to be significantly better than now, you certainly don't need 6 of any of the characters, or the reanimator. The Skorpekh destroyers may actually be a problem if they do a real kit with unit options and the boxed set version is stuck with a lackluster weapon setup.
Even if you don't subscribe to 'the meta,' more than one or two units is more of a burden than a boon.
They will be slightly more resilient to morale damage, in that the enemy will need to kill 19 rather than 15 to be absolutely certain the unit dies.
A lot of conversions probably, the killbox would probably get a few.
120 Warriors comes out to 1440 pts, so it would be fun to try and drown the enemy, throw in a couple reanimators and HQ's for the hell of it.
In all honesty I'll probably acquire 4, and if the price/opportunity for more pops up then maybe I'll bite.
Then I remember I have to paint them all, I guess I'll be buying Iron Warrior and Brass Scorpion in bulk
Radikus wrote: Was watching a bat rep and one of the guys let slip living metal is going to D3, unless he was thinking phylactery. That's just a flat upgrade from the previous rule if it's true.
If you're talking about the StrikingScorpion83 Batrep, it's because he took the Cryptek with Canoptekh Cloak.
It was the Guerrilla Miniature Games Indomitus box set bat rep. For what it's worth I don't think it was them accidentally talking about future rules as it could be existing rules.
Eyjio wrote: Still very unconvinced by the Gauss Reaper. It's strictly superior in the ranges 0-7" and 12-14", and always better vs T8/9 and exactly T5 2+. The flayer has such a huge ranged advantage where you can't be kited around and the few times it's worse, you're not that much worse anyway that on paper I think it's still generally better. Now, it could be that something lets warriors rapid fire at full range or some other buff which makes the 14" a fantastic midrange killer but for now, meh.
The Reaper is the perfect example of GW's approach to 40k game design. Give the Xenos factions the weird, awkward and unique weapons with strange range bands and stats, then give Primaris weapons and abilities strictly better than everything else. I think the Reaper will only be good if there is some way to either buff its range or even just its rapid fire range. At the moment losing out on all those Flayer shots seems like too high a price to pay.
Eyjio wrote: Still very unconvinced by the Gauss Reaper. It's strictly superior in the ranges 0-7" and 12-14", and always better vs T8/9 and exactly T5 2+. The flayer has such a huge ranged advantage where you can't be kited around and the few times it's worse, you're not that much worse anyway that on paper I think it's still generally better. Now, it could be that something lets warriors rapid fire at full range or some other buff which makes the 14" a fantastic midrange killer but for now, meh.
The Reaper is the perfect example of GW's approach to 40k game design. Give the Xenos factions the weird, awkward and unique weapons with strange range bands and stats, then give Primaris weapons and abilities strictly better than everything else. I think the Reaper will only be good if there is some way to either buff its range or even just its rapid fire range. At the moment losing out on all those Flayer shots seems like too high a price to pay.
I respectfully disagree about Primaris being "just strictly better", but fully agree about wierd and unique weaponry.
I view them like the Deathwatch Shotguns, or like the Fire Warrior Breacher Pulse-thing-I've-forgotten-the-name-of that did more damage the closer you got to it. Both are extremely viable weapons, but must be used for a different tactical role, usually involving a transport for a breach-and-clear kind of maneouver.
Eyjio wrote: Still very unconvinced by the Gauss Reaper. It's strictly superior in the ranges 0-7" and 12-14", and always better vs T8/9 and exactly T5 2+. The flayer has such a huge ranged advantage where you can't be kited around and the few times it's worse, you're not that much worse anyway that on paper I think it's still generally better. Now, it could be that something lets warriors rapid fire at full range or some other buff which makes the 14" a fantastic midrange killer but for now, meh.
The Reaper is the perfect example of GW's approach to 40k game design. Give the Xenos factions the weird, awkward and unique weapons with strange range bands and stats, then give Primaris weapons and abilities strictly better than everything else. I think the Reaper will only be good if there is some way to either buff its range or even just its rapid fire range. At the moment losing out on all those Flayer shots seems like too high a price to pay.
I respectfully disagree about Primaris being "just strictly better", but fully agree about wierd and unique weaponry.
I view them like the Deathwatch Shotguns, or like the Fire Warrior Breacher Pulse-thing-I've-forgotten-the-name-of that did more damage the closer you got to it. Both are extremely viable weapons, but must be used for a different tactical role, usually involving a transport for a breach-and-clear kind of maneouver.
The problem with that is 40k is now so ridiculously lethal the idea of working your way into short range is just not viable and most transports with dangerous guys inside die very quickly. I'm hoping 9th's terrain rules can help with that. But in general you need to be massively more dangerous if your firepower is very short-ranged in order to outclass how good most firepower is at more normal ranges. I think your Deathwatch shotgun analogy is unfortunately spot-on. There's a reason you never see any good DW lists using shotguns. Same with Breachers. Outside of Farsight Enclaves they're not very common because the Fire Warrior is more consistent in its damage output and able to fire from turn 1.
I don't know. I play farsight breachers and the amount of time I'm at middle (10") or even close range (5") is surprising. I also have a stratagem to be at close range at long range (15").
Yeah, strike squads are more reliable and easy to use but right now ap 0 is just like doing nothing agaisnt space marines and sororitas. And for my playstile Breachers work much better.
That doesnt mean I dont use strike squads, I use both, but each one has his place and they both do is work.
I can totally see 20 man warrior squads designeds to run the middle of the board have 10 of each weapon.
Sasori wrote: Why are you not a fan of the Plasmacyte? Assuming in the regular Dex the Destroyers are 3-6, it seems really good. The buff can be extremely relevant, getting to strength 8 on the reap blade. Worst case, it can take something like a Lascannon shot if needed to keep the rest of the unit alive. yeah, the 1 in 6 chance to kill a destroyer isn't amazing, but if RP is improved it may not be that huge.
I've also revised my opinion of the Plasmancer as well. My main concern is it seems like our HQ slot going to be super competitive now.
You know, I was going off gut instinct to justify it, as the potential to kill off a 40 point model seemed insane, but you're right. Turns out, there are actually quite a few potential uses for the damn thing. I'm working off the (very tenuous) rumours that they do cap at 3 units per model, that they cost ~40 points each and the plasmacyte is an additional 15, bringing the squad to 135 points; a bit less than 7 intercessors in the new rules. So, here's some facts I found interesting:
-Other than a few cases, the reap-sword outperforms the threshers in almost all situations. If we have the option in the codex to arm all with swords, it's usually the right way to go.
-Those cases aren't always trivial; one of them is T4 W1/2 any save, no inv, where threshers are always just a little better.
-With infusing, S8 makes a huge difference against T4, making the reap-blade superior, and S6 threshers are better vs T5 W1/2 as you might expect from the +1S.
-T3 is also much weaker to the threshers after infusion; GEQ get mulched, as you'd anticipate, expecting to take over 10 casualties from a full strength attack vs 6 uninfused.
-Surprising one: against T5 or lower units, infusing and losing 1 destroyer still on average gives you 95% of the damage output as not infusing; i.e. infusing if you reach combat with full model count is almost always the best decision
-Unfortunately, vs high T models, infusing is extremely swingy: losing 1 thresher model (the ideal) reduces you to on average ~85% of your strength if you hadn't infused; if a model doesn't die, you're about 55% stronger.
-Because rerolling 1's to wound is multiplicative, the Skorptekh lord helps most vs multiwound models where the damage output really matters. Not shocking, but means between the blast gun, claw and reroll aura, it's a surprisingly well rounded unit for any match up.
-Slightly interesting aside: against many units in the game, D2 vs D3 is a lot bigger of a disparity than it looks, which manifests here also. VS a character with 5/6 wounds, D2 needs to hit an extra time, and VS W3 units, it's the same. As a fair amount of melee units have W3, you really want to keep the sword guy alive.
So, my intuition is completely wrong. Despite how it seems, the plasmacyte seems exceptionally useful; it will either eat a high damage shot for the unit, in which case that's 15 points spent to save 40 - a great trade, or it buffs the unit immensely in combat, and the backfire isn't as extreme as it looks. These guys are massive damage dealers and move very quickly. The downside is obvious - against other melee units, they really need the charge, and no inv is a huge disadvantage because they will just melt. Still, I'm glad I did the analysis, I don't feel like much of this was particularly obvious at all!
IHateNids wrote: I view them like the Deathwatch Shotguns, or like the Fire Warrior Breacher Pulse-thing-I've-forgotten-the-name-of that did more damage the closer you got to it. Both are extremely viable weapons, but must be used for a different tactical role, usually involving a transport for a breach-and-clear kind of maneouver.
Remember when Fish of Fury used to be a viable tactic? Back when Necrons had to use a massive and slow deep-striking tank or a HQ relic to move quickly across the battlefield?
Some speculative fun, I think our Canoptek units, or at least some of them, will be able to innately overwatch
I've been trying to wrap my head around what units might get the ability and the only other one I can think of might be the monolith and the new destroyer
Sasori wrote: Why are you not a fan of the Plasmacyte? Assuming in the regular Dex the Destroyers are 3-6, it seems really good. The buff can be extremely relevant, getting to strength 8 on the reap blade. Worst case, it can take something like a Lascannon shot if needed to keep the rest of the unit alive. yeah, the 1 in 6 chance to kill a destroyer isn't amazing, but if RP is improved it may not be that huge.
I've also revised my opinion of the Plasmancer as well. My main concern is it seems like our HQ slot going to be super competitive now.
You know, I was going off gut instinct to justify it, as the potential to kill off a 40 point model seemed insane, but you're right. Turns out, there are actually quite a few potential uses for the damn thing. I'm working off the (very tenuous) rumours that they do cap at 3 units per model, that they cost ~40 points each and the plasmacyte is an additional 15, bringing the squad to 135 points; a bit less than 7 intercessors in the new rules. So, here's some facts I found interesting:
-Other than a few cases, the reap-sword outperforms the threshers in almost all situations. If we have the option in the codex to arm all with swords, it's usually the right way to go.
-Those cases aren't always trivial; one of them is T4 W1/2 any save, no inv, where threshers are always just a little better.
-With infusing, S8 makes a huge difference against T4, making the reap-blade superior, and S6 threshers are better vs T5 W1/2 as you might expect from the +1S.
-T3 is also much weaker to the threshers after infusion; GEQ get mulched, as you'd anticipate, expecting to take over 10 casualties from a full strength attack vs 6 uninfused.
-Surprising one: against T5 or lower units, infusing and losing 1 destroyer still on average gives you 95% of the damage output as not infusing; i.e. infusing if you reach combat with full model count is almost always the best decision
-Unfortunately, vs high T models, infusing is extremely swingy: losing 1 thresher model (the ideal) reduces you to on average ~85% of your strength if you hadn't infused; if a model doesn't die, you're about 55% stronger.
-Because rerolling 1's to wound is multiplicative, the Skorptekh lord helps most vs multiwound models where the damage output really matters. Not shocking, but means between the blast gun, claw and reroll aura, it's a surprisingly well rounded unit for any match up.
-Slightly interesting aside: against many units in the game, D2 vs D3 is a lot bigger of a disparity than it looks, which manifests here also. VS a character with 5/6 wounds, D2 needs to hit an extra time, and VS W3 units, it's the same. As a fair amount of melee units have W3, you really want to keep the sword guy alive.
So, my intuition is completely wrong. Despite how it seems, the plasmacyte seems exceptionally useful; it will either eat a high damage shot for the unit, in which case that's 15 points spent to save 40 - a great trade, or it buffs the unit immensely in combat, and the backfire isn't as extreme as it looks. These guys are massive damage dealers and move very quickly. The downside is obvious - against other melee units, they really need the charge, and no inv is a huge disadvantage because they will just melt. Still, I'm glad I did the analysis, I don't feel like much of this was particularly obvious at all!
Very useful analysis! There are a few situations I didn't think of here.
IHateNids wrote: I view them like the Deathwatch Shotguns, or like the Fire Warrior Breacher Pulse-thing-I've-forgotten-the-name-of that did more damage the closer you got to it. Both are extremely viable weapons, but must be used for a different tactical role, usually involving a transport for a breach-and-clear kind of maneouver.
Remember when Fish of Fury used to be a viable tactic? Back when Necrons had to use a massive and slow deep-striking tank or a HQ relic to move quickly across the battlefield?
I do actually
If we starded doing that with Ghost Arks, it might be decent
Or rather, I am hoping that Night Scythes become useable again, because thats what I wanna use
If we starded doing that with Ghost Arks, it might be decent
Or rather, I am hoping that Night Scythes become useable again, because thats what I wanna use
If Nightscythe had rules to drop its cargo at the end of its movement it would open so much possibilities for underwhelming units (Lychguard, Gauss Immortal, Warriors with Reapers). But seeing how 9th did not change vehicule rules, i'm not optimistic. On the other hand if GW wants to sell those new Monoliths, they need to change Tomb World deployment rules so maybe there is hope.
Necron stele have some rules in here.
Have to be set up within 12" of each other
12" bubble of +2 leadership. (yes, it goes to 12)
Transdimensional Abductors Range 12, Assault d3, S4 -3AP, D3
Short range antiprimaris zappers, apparently.
Translocation Protocols, Cryptek performs an action in movement phase, remove a stele from the battlefield, put it anywhere not within 9" of enemy during your next Reinforcement step.
Basically you set them up in your deployment phase, and your crypteks teleport them forward on turn one.
Necron stele have some rules in here.
Have to be set up within 12" of each other
12" bubble of +2 leadership. (yes, it goes to 12)
Transdimensional Abductors Range 12, Assault d3, S4 -3AP, D3
Short range antiprimaris zappers, apparently.
Translocation Protocols, Cryptek performs an action in movement phase, remove a stele from the battlefield, put it anywhere not within 9" of enemy during your next Reinforcement step.
Basically you set them up in your deployment phase, and your crypteks teleport them forward on turn one.
Necron stele have some rules in here. Have to be set up within 12" of each other 12" bubble of +2 leadership. (yes, it goes to 12) Transdimensional Abductors Range 12, Assault d3, S4 -3AP, D3 Short range antiprimaris zappers, apparently.
Translocation Protocols, Cryptek performs an action in movement phase, remove a stele from the battlefield, put it anywhere not within 9" of enemy during your next Reinforcement step.
Basically you set them up in your deployment phase, and your crypteks teleport them forward on turn one.
While everything depends on points costs and the statline, these do not look like they are worth taking right now, even in a vacuum. It gets worse when you look at the hammerfall bunker.
I'm hopeful the statlines and points will balance these out, but it's really starting to get hard to not be annoyed when comparing to the new stuff the primaris is getting.
Necron stele have some rules in here.
Have to be set up within 12" of each other
12" bubble of +2 leadership. (yes, it goes to 12)
Transdimensional Abductors Range 12, Assault d3, S4 -3AP, D3
Short range antiprimaris zappers, apparently.
Translocation Protocols, Cryptek performs an action in movement phase, remove a stele from the battlefield, put it anywhere not within 9" of enemy during your next Reinforcement step.
Basically you set them up in your deployment phase, and your crypteks teleport them forward on turn one.
I'm hoping that from the looks of each model they have 2 of those guns each. Also no idea why its assault (I wish they made it blast not gonn lie)
It's Assault because they can move.
But Pistol would've been better.
Actually you've made me realise something, as I'm assuming this is a vehicle its weapons are basically pistols anyway right? So it'll be able to shoot people who charge it as per the new rules
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sasori wrote: While everything depends on points costs and the statline, these do not look like they are worth taking right now, even in a vacuum. It gets worse when you look at the hammerfall bunker.
I'm hopeful the statlines and points will balance these out, but it's really starting to get hard to not be annoyed when comparing to the new stuff the primaris is getting.
I agree completely. At least with the convergence its 3 separate models so it'll take time to bring all 3 down whereas the bunker is a single static object, but for what the bunker does the points better balance out these models
Edit : unless I'm mistaken I've actually realised something quite interesting about the starstele. With the rules for teleporting them around you can: 1, declare a cryptic is gonna teleport them, 2, fire then in shooting phase, 3. Finally at the end of your turn take them off the board. Quite good at getting them out of the way of anti tank weapons and still allowing them to shoot in your turns
A bit situational with our 12 inch range but it does mean you can fire them at a nearby enemy unit to soften it up and then redeploy them elsewhere next turn to strengthen a flank so that's actually a bit flexible for the unit again depending on how many guns it actually mounts
Necron stele have some rules in here.
Have to be set up within 12" of each other
12" bubble of +2 leadership. (yes, it goes to 12)
Transdimensional Abductors Range 12, Assault d3, S4 -3AP, D3
Short range antiprimaris zappers, apparently.
Translocation Protocols, Cryptek performs an action in movement phase, remove a stele from the battlefield, put it anywhere not within 9" of enemy during your next Reinforcement step.
Basically you set them up in your deployment phase, and your crypteks teleport them forward on turn one.
I'm hoping that from the looks of each model they have 2 of those guns each. Also no idea why its assault (I wish they made it blast not gonn lie)
It's Assault because they can move.
But Pistol would've been better.
Actually you've made me realise something, as I'm assuming this is a vehicle its weapons are basically pistols anyway right? So it'll be able to shoot people who charge it as per the new rules
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sasori wrote: While everything depends on points costs and the statline, these do not look like they are worth taking right now, even in a vacuum. It gets worse when you look at the hammerfall bunker.
I'm hopeful the statlines and points will balance these out, but it's really starting to get hard to not be annoyed when comparing to the new stuff the primaris is getting.
I agree completely. At least with the convergence its 3 separate models so it'll take time to bring all 3 down whereas the bunker is a single static object, but for what the bunker does the points better balance out these models
It's pretty ridiculous at this point. I wouldn't get my hopes up for the stats and points to even it out.
The weapon on our starstele is a big let down. Leadership bonus? Really? That's way better than an ability that let's you target and fire at EVERY unit in range.
The one thing I have seen someone point regarding the bunker is usually unmanned imperial stuff is actually a 5+ and maybe the heavy bolters will be a special variant were they fire more shots but have less range which if its true would do a bit to balance them
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Venerable Ironclad wrote: It might be wishful thinking but I would love it if the last Rumor Engine image was Flayed One related.
Well if the are doing away with rubbish finecast you might not be wrong about that
Galas wrote: I don't know. I play farsight breachers and the amount of time I'm at middle (10") or even close range (5") is surprising. I also have a stratagem to be at close range at long range (15").
Yeah, strike squads are more reliable and easy to use but right now ap 0 is just like doing nothing agaisnt space marines and sororitas. And for my playstile Breachers work much better.
That doesnt mean I dont use strike squads, I use both, but each one has his place and they both do is work.
I can totally see 20 man warrior squads designeds to run the middle of the board have 10 of each weapon.
Sororitas? Isn't breacher ap2? So basically vs sororita you trade range for wounding on 2+
Galas wrote: I don't know. I play farsight breachers and the amount of time I'm at middle (10") or even close range (5") is surprising. I also have a stratagem to be at close range at long range (15").
Yeah, strike squads are more reliable and easy to use but right now ap 0 is just like doing nothing agaisnt space marines and sororitas. And for my playstile Breachers work much better.
That doesnt mean I dont use strike squads, I use both, but each one has his place and they both do is work.
I can totally see 20 man warrior squads designeds to run the middle of the board have 10 of each weapon.
Sororitas? Isn't breacher ap2? So basically vs sororita you trade range for wounding on 2+
Most competitive sororitas armies I have faced go full on Bloody Rose, or they don't have literally ALL of their army in range of imagifiers.
I agree that the CoD rules seem rather lackluster, but if the points are cheap enough I could actually see some use for these.
They give a pretty massive foot print of no deepstrike for the enemy. If one were to take 3 sets of them you could secure your entire board edge and flanks.
You could teleport them forward and block pathways and such
Kharne the Befriender wrote: I agree that the CoD rules seem rather lackluster, but if the points are cheap enough I could actually see some use for these.
They give a pretty massive foot print of no deepstrike for the enemy. If one were to take 3 sets of them you could secure your entire board edge and flanks.
You could teleport them forward and block pathways and such
I get that you're looking for a silver lining, but I don't see it. The fact that the starsteles have to leave the board for a turn really cuts their balls off.
Honestly, we shouldn't be surprised. Of course the "Supreme Marines" have to be blatantly better than everything. I wouldn't mind if it were just an edge that GW was giving to the marines, but it's way past that. Space marines = gun
Everyone else = knife
Sasori wrote: While everything depends on points costs and the statline, these do not look like they are worth taking right now, even in a vacuum. It gets worse when you look at the hammerfall bunker.
I'm hopeful the statlines and points will balance these out, but it's really starting to get hard to not be annoyed when comparing to the new stuff the primaris is getting.
I seem to remember someone saying that these can teleport your forces around the board, so judging them by their profile alone might be a bit premature. The article also hints at this function calling them "part pylon and part waystone" and thus showing they possess features not listed in the article. My bet is they are mini eternity gates (the teleporter on the monolith), and they will be able to use dimensional corridor and deploy units from Tomb world deploy. So you set them up, teleport them to where they need to be, and then start pulling units around the board.
You can imagine all sorts of use cases, with 3 or more durable and (hopefully) reasonably priced exit points, tomb world deployment becomes less of a suicide run. The buff to leadership is useful for blobs and I can think of two blobs that would really benefit from moving around the board, reaper equipped warriors, and flayed ones. The only drawback would be the fun doesn't start until turn three, which is in line with monoliths.
Sasori wrote: While everything depends on points costs and the statline, these do not look like they are worth taking right now, even in a vacuum. It gets worse when you look at the hammerfall bunker.
I'm hopeful the statlines and points will balance these out, but it's really starting to get hard to not be annoyed when comparing to the new stuff the primaris is getting.
I seem to remember someone saying that these can teleport your forces around the board, so judging them by their profile alone might be a bit premature. The article also hints at this function calling them "part pylon and part waystone" and thus showing they possess features not listed in the article. My bet is they are mini eternity gates (the teleporter on the monolith), and they will be able to use dimensional corridor and deploy units from Tomb world deploy. So you set them up, teleport them to where they need to be, and then start pulling units around the board.
You can imagine all sorts of use cases, with 3 or more durable and (hopefully) reasonably priced exit points, tomb world deployment becomes less of a suicide run. The buff to leadership is useful for blobs and I can think of two blobs that would really benefit from moving around the board, reaper equipped warriors, and flayed ones. The only drawback would be the fun doesn't start until turn three, which is in line with monoliths.
No, people just misinterpreted the first article as maybe allowing people to transport their forces around, when it was talking about the terrain itself. I know I was hopeful for that as well.
Kharne the Befriender wrote: I agree that the CoD rules seem rather lackluster, but if the points are cheap enough I could actually see some use for these.
They give a pretty massive foot print of no deepstrike for the enemy. If one were to take 3 sets of them you could secure your entire board edge and flanks.
You could teleport them forward and block pathways and such
I get that you're looking for a silver lining, but I don't see it. The fact that the starsteles have to leave the board for a turn really cuts their balls off.
Honestly, we shouldn't be surprised. Of course the "Supreme Marines" have to be blatantly better than everything. I wouldn't mind if it were just an edge that GW was giving to the marines, but it's way past that. Space marines = gun
Everyone else = knife
Unless I misunderstsnd the rules they don't have to leave for a full turn to deepstrike back in, they leave at the end of your turn and come back in the reinforcement phase of your next turn so they can avoid anti tank shooting in your opponents turn and still have opportunity to shoot in your next turn
Aza'Gorod wrote: Unless I misunderstsnd the rules they don't have to leave for a full turn to deepstrike back in, they leave at the end of your turn and come back in the reinforcement phase of your next turn so they can avoid anti tank shooting in your opponents turn and still have opportunity to shoot in your next turn
They leave at the end of the movement phase, so they lose at least one shooting phase but they probably won't be in range anyway. You also lose shooting from the Cryptek, that's not a big deal unless you play a Plasmancer. If i also read this correctly, as the Action of moving the Starstele is completed at the end of the turn, a Cryptek will regain his auras at this moment, so they will still be effective for your opponent's turn and your next turn command phase for a Cryptek with Chronometron or a Canoptek Cloak.
So the "cost" of moving a Starstele in the first turn is not extremly high. Trying to analyse with what we know :
- Even if you move a Startele T1, you still have two Starstele doing nothing in your deployment zone and depending of the matchup they won't be able to shoot all game.
- Startele could be used to protect your backline against Strategic Reserve or drops
- Fortifications don't take objectives, but they seems to be able to count for "Linebreakers" and "Engage on all fronts" secondaries.
- Their gun is quite depressingly undewhelming we won't take them for damage
- Fortifications don't protect Characters for Look Out Sir. Seeing some battle report in 9th, Thunderfire canons and other ordnance are very efficient to snipe characters.
If they are really tough and cheap (max 25-30 pts per Starstele) i can see them used just for secondaries and board deny against reserves. Even in this scenario, scarabs may just be far better. I think they will be MVP of the edition for us.
Aza'Gorod wrote: Unless I misunderstsnd the rules they don't have to leave for a full turn to deepstrike back in, they leave at the end of your turn and come back in the reinforcement phase of your next turn so they can avoid anti tank shooting in your opponents turn and still have opportunity to shoot in your next turn
They leave at the end of the movement phase, so they lose at least one shooting phase but they probably won't be in range anyway. You also lose shooting from the Cryptek, that's not a big deal unless you play a Plasmancer. If i also read this correctly, as the Action of moving the Starstele is completed at the end of the turn, a Cryptek will regain his auras at this moment, so they will still be effective for your opponent's turn and your next turn command phase for a Cryptek with Chronometron or a Canoptek Cloak.
So the "cost" of moving a Starstele in the first turn is not extremly high. Trying to analyse with what we know :
- Even if you move a Startele T1, you still have two Starstele doing nothing in your deployment zone and depending of the matchup they won't be able to shoot all game.
- Startele could be used to protect your backline against Strategic Reserve or drops
- Fortifications don't take objectives, but they seems to be able to count for "Linebreakers" and "Engage on all fronts" secondaries.
- Their gun is quite depressingly undewhelming we won't take them for damage
- Fortifications don't protect Characters for Look Out Sir. Seeing some battle report in 9th, Thunderfire canons and other ordnance are very efficient to snipe characters.
If they are really tough and cheap (max 25-30 pts per Starstele) i can see them used just for secondaries and board deny against reserves. Even in this scenario, scarabs may just be far better. I think they will be MVP of the edition for us.
The action starts in the movement phase but you don't actually remove it until the end of your turn, so you can still shoot it and then take it off the board before your opponent can.
Im still not saying they're good with a 12 inch range but the timing is interesting. Maybe with how lacking the majority of our range is we are just better off going 2nd whenever we can. Let then come to us get in range of our guns and try and RP/heal any damage we've received
Translocation Protocols: While there are any STARSTELE units from your army on the battlefield, CRYPTEK units in your army can attempt the following action, as described in the Warhammer 40,000 Core Book: 'Activate Translocation Protocols (Action): At the end of your Movement phase, one friendly CRYPTEK unit from your army that is within 3" of any friendly STARSTELE units can start to perform this action. The action is completed at the end of your turn. Once completed, select one of those STARSTELE units and remove it from the battlefield; in the Reinforcements step of your next Movement phase, set that STARSTELE unit back up on the battlefield, anywhere that is more than 9" away from any enemy models. If the battle ends and that Starstele unit is not on the battlefield, it is destroyed."
Yeah. I don't see the Terrain as being worth taking. I would love to be wrong and I hope I am.
In an edition where killing units is so important, these just don't help with anything worthwhile. If they have other abilities or great stats, then maybe that will change, but I just don't see that happening.
Maybe it wouldn't look as bad if we didn't compare to what the space marines are getting, but i feel like they would still be lackluster
punisher357 wrote: Yeah. I don't see the Terrain as being worth taking. I would love to be wrong and I hope I am.
In an edition where killing units is so important, these just don't help with anything worthwhile. If they have other abilities or great stats, then maybe that will change, but I just don't see that happening.
Maybe it wouldn't look as bad if we didn't compare to what the space marines are getting, but i feel like they would still be lackluster
It doesn't help that their leadership buff doesn't actually do much. For MSU, it does nothing, leadership 10 or 12 doesn't matter. 4 casualties +d6 = pass, either way.
For warrior blobs, it shifts the numbers a little but not enough. The change to morale attrition means the unit has to be killed to (unit size -1) regardless, if the opponent wants to be certain of the kill (and, currently, prevent RP).
I guess if you really want to take immortal or lychguard units of 7 without worrying about morale (as long as the stele is around), you can do that.
punisher357 wrote: Yeah. I don't see the Terrain as being worth taking. I would love to be wrong and I hope I am.
In an edition where killing units is so important, these just don't help with anything worthwhile. If they have other abilities or great stats, then maybe that will change, but I just don't see that happening.
Maybe it wouldn't look as bad if we didn't compare to what the space marines are getting, but i feel like they would still be lackluster
It doesn't help that their leadership buff doesn't actually do much. For MSU, it does nothing, leadership 10 or 12 doesn't matter. 4 casualties +d6 = pass, either way.
For warrior blobs, it shifts the numbers a little but not enough. The change to morale attrition means the unit has to be killed to (unit size -1) regardless, if the opponent wants to be certain of the kill (and, currently, prevent RP).
I guess if you really want to take immortal or lychguard units of 7 without worrying about morale (as long as the stele is around), you can do that.
Exactly! I don't know why GW keeps giving lame aura benefits like this or the anti-psyker one for Szeras. They act like it's a big bonus or something.
Meanwhile, Space Marines keep getting over-buffed. Honestly, if it keeps going this way, I wouldn't be surprised to see people refuse to play against them. Obviously I'm not talking tournaments.
So, I doubt these points will last very long (with an upcoming codex), but it seems like Necrons got off relatively easily.
I'll grant my perspective may be slightly warped by not having CA2019 (never got around to it, and then it didn't matter), but based on the codex and 2018.... Necrons often, even largely, went down in points.
Even stuff that looks bad like lychguard and destroyers actually aren't, because their weapons got zeroed out.
Immortals did get bumped up, but not by a huge amount.
Voss wrote: So, I doubt these points will last very long (with an upcoming codex), but it seems like Necrons got off relatively easily.
I'll grant my perspective may be slightly warped by not having CA2019 (never got around to it, and then it didn't matter), but based on the codex and 2018.... Necrons often, even largely, went down in points.
Even stuff that looks bad like lychguard and destroyers actually aren't, because their weapons got zeroed out.
Immortals did get bumped up, but not by a huge amount.
The only real confusion inducing change from these was the Obelisk.. going up by 40.
I'm not sure why they think immortals are worth 18 ppm... that one is a bit baffling.
That being said, I doubt I'm even going to get in any games with these points values. The new dex is right around the corner and everything is likely to change.
Immortals going to 18 is the nearly-across-the-board 1 point increase plus a bit extra for MSU immortal spam and ignoring warriors for pretty much all 8th.
I'm not the least bit surprised by it (or particularly believe it will change anything).
5 Tesla immortals for 90 will still be the troops present in a lot of necron armies.
Nothing earth shattering that I can see. They're basically just updating the wording of some abilities to match 9th ed terminology. Though they did seem to effectively make Monolith/Night Scythes transports. Not sure if that's new or not. I haven't followed 40k updates since I stopped playing in early 8th.
Nothing earth shattering that I can see. They're basically just updating the wording of some abilities to match 9th ed terminology. Though they did seem to effectively make Monolith/Night Scythes transports. Not sure if that's new or not. I haven't followed 40k updates since I stopped playing in early 8th.
Kinda, but they still don't let us disembark from tomb world in the first turn, so they still suck. The fact that Emergency Teleport specifies and normal rule doesn't means that this is intentional, which hurts me. They're deliberately making our transports suck.
Grimgold wrote: Emergency Invasion beams now explicitly works in the first round regardless of other rules, that's a huge buff, for nightscythes and monoliths anyway.
True, You can Deceiver a Night Scythe up in someone's face and hope they're not knowledgeable enough to ignore it. They kill it, out pops lychguard or skorpekhs (they're infantry lol). Or even just fly it up turn one and let them kill it.
Anybody who wants an indomitable box GW has e mailed to say they are doing them made to order for a limited time. I've already got mine and its 1/customer
punisher357 wrote: Looks like tesla immortals may be getting nerfed. All the admech tesla type weapons were changed to only generate hits on unmodified rolls of a six
They also nerfed the crap out of wraiths, who can no longer fall back and charge, which is what I was afraid of since the new destroyers seemed to be aimed at the same role.
This change seems to suggest our Tomb World deployment is now all upside?
“Q: Are units that are set up on their tomb world using the Invasion Beams and Eternity Gate abilities counted as Reinforcement units for the purpose of any mission rules ? A: Yes.“
If all sources of Invasion Beams are destroyed they can now still just walk onto the board—and if it’s useful, they can do all the flanking shenanigans instead of disembarking from the Nightscythes/Monolith.
sieGermans wrote: This change seems to suggest our Tomb World deployment is now all upside?
“Q: Are units that are set up on their tomb world using the Invasion Beams and Eternity Gate abilities counted as Reinforcement units for the purpose of any mission rules ? A: Yes.“
If all sources of Invasion Beams are destroyed they can now still just walk onto the board—and if it’s useful, they can do all the flanking shenanigans instead of disembarking from the Nightscythes/Monolith.
Unfortunately I think the more specific rule takes effect, which says if all of your night scythes/monoliths are destroyed all units in tomb world deployment are considered to be slain. The above complicates things more than clears them up, for instance because units in TWD count as reserves do I have to pay CP to deploy things into TWD like I would other reserves? For RAW it seems like a yes, but other factions don't have to pay to put their units into transports so that's a downside. Also do units arriving from TWD activate abilities like auspex scan, and assuming you still have at least one nightscythe or monolith, can you just walk on the board without having to use an eternity gate or invasion beam?
This is one of my pet peeves of 8th and now early 9th, if GW spent 15 minutes actually thinking about TWD, they could write an update that clears the whole mess up, instead they keep firing off half baked solutions that complicate it. My hope is this half baked answer is because it's just a stop gap until we get a codex which drastically alters the rule.
Battle Ready painting tutorial for the Szarekhan Dynasty is up.
Hopefully they'll have an Advanced tutorial later in the week, because the results from the new Tesseract Glow paint is a bit disappointing in this video...
