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With the recent surge of participation in large tournament events such as Games Workshop’s 2007 Tournament Circuit and ‘Ard Boyz events, there has been much friendly smack talking and boasting of who truly can be considered the best general in the land. Well, at AdeptiCon 2008, top generals will have their chance to set the record straight and take home the title of the 2007 GW 40k Tournament Circuit Warmaster.

Get ready to bring your “A” game to this tournament, because there are no baby seals to club here: to qualify for this prestigious tournament, players must have scored in the top 10 for Battle Points in a 2007 Games Workshop Tournament Circuit Event (this also will include the Ard Boyz Finals event). Qualifying players (see link below) who would like to take on the challenge of playing against the best competition in the United States should send an email confirming their attendance to awc_nfp@yahoo.com with a subject line of “Tournament Circuit Invitational” and include their full name in the body of the message. The first 50 qualifying players to respond are guaranteed a spot in the tournament. There is no cost to attend this AdeptiCon tournament other than purchasing an AdeptiCon Weekend Badge through the normal webcart process. As the 2007 Tournament Circuit Invitational Championships occurs on Sunday at AdeptiCon, players participating in this Invitational event will not be able to play in the AdeptiCon 40k Championships. A list of qualifying players can be found at http://www.adepticon.org/08rules/0840Kinvite.html

I was hoping that Adepticon would get rid of that awful “dice down” policy that they had 2 years ago. Everyone should get the same number of turns, and it also opens up so much trouble in the way of stalling, slow-play and gamesmanship.

So with all of the good players going to the Invitational, the Championships shall be mine!!! Muhahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

I am in. I can't wait for this event. I guess we will all have to conceed the Adepticon 40K Championship to Blackmoor.

Darrian

Blackmoor wrote:I was hoping that Adepticon would get rid of that awful “dice down” policy that they had 2 years ago. Everyone should get the same number of turns, and it also opens up so much trouble in the way of stalling, slow-play and gamesmanship.

The dice down policy is intended to keep the tournament on schedule. Getting players to turn in paper work is hard enough, let alone giving extra time for equal turns. I don't see any way the hard time cut off is going away.

Just like GW's GTs, if you don't have time for both players to get in a turn, you should not start another turn.

Most of the time then when time runs out you are just finishing up a turn.

A situation where one player gets one more turn than his opponent is hardly fair.

Dice down is idiotic. It's one of the reasons I have yet to bother to make the trip.

Just like GW's GTs, if you don't have time for both players to get in a turn, you should not start another turn.

Most of the time then when time runs out you are just finishing up a turn.

A situation where one player gets one more turn than his opponent is hardly fair.

Blackmoor,

Adepticon has this policy .. if you don't have enough time to start a full turn in which both players have a chance to get in both turns. Don't play it. Now the question is how much time does it take to get in a complete turn?

The dice down policy is in place to keep people who ignore the rule above .. from going way over the game length and holding up the entire event. It is also why we have the doomsday clock so everyone knows without even having to ask how much time is left in the game.

Mauleed,

Hey you got a different excuse ever year

My biggest excuse is always the same: you guys are 1000 miles away.

But I've said it before and I'll say it again: I hate they you guys use your local houserules in the tournament and I hate the dice down policy.

I may find a way to go this year though, if only to make all of the fantasy players angry.

I know Mauleed .. someday you'll make it.

Well we have in conjunction with Dakka here had a merger of the minds and adopted a standard FAQ. I forget the exact name Yakface is calling it. Adepticon has grown out of a strong local gaming scene we certainly have some of that heritage and we are working on ways to address the fact that AdeptiCon is now a national event. But I certainly see just as many "houserules" enforced at other events. For the future your going to be able to read the FAQ document and know ahead of time what to expect. I know the effort that went into that document on my end and well can only imagine the hours Yakface has invested.

I guess I don't understand the problem with the dice down policy? We state ... Hey you got x time to finish a game... we blast the countdown of the time remaining on the hall wall.. We state ... Hey don't start a complete turn you can not finish .. and when we call time we expect people to stop playing the game... Now the only way someone should not be done with a game in the allotted time is if they started a turn they could not possible finish in the time left. To me that takes 2 people to agree to start the turn. To complain you didn't get part of your turn afterwards? I just don't get it. Only thing you should be mad about is being in agreement to have started the turn in the first place.

mauleed if you are as good as you say then you should attend adepticon. There you can prove it to everyone.

I have signed up for the invitational.

- G

muwhe wrote:

I guess I don't understand the problem with the dice down policy? We state ... Hey you got x time to finish a game... we blast the countdown of the time remaining on the hall wall.. We state ... Hey don't start a complete turn you can not finish .. and when we call time we expect people to stop playing the game... Now the only way someone should not be done with a game in the allotted time is if they started a turn they could not possible finish in the time left. To me that takes 2 people to agree to start the turn. To complain you didn't get part of your turn afterwards? I just don't get it. Only thing you should be mad about is being in agreement to have started the turn in the first place.

That is the problem. Lets say you have 15 minutes left, and the shooting army is winning, and the next turn the assault army will get into assault. The player that is winning will not want to go another turn, or will be able to stall long enough to make the last turn incomplete.


Another senario is that you are at the bottom of a turn with 15-20 minutes left in an objective based game. I can just stall the 15 minutes and make sure that the other player does not have the time to move to the objectives, or to remove me from them.

At least in some events you can dock them sports for those tactics, but when you have only battlepoints, then you will reward someone who stalls.

I will be ok though, I am going to bring a very small army to the invitational, so I get the full game in.

What he said. Dice down is idiotic. Sorry fellas, it's your tournament, and you run it how you want, but it's idiotic.

So what do you do then? Remove a time limit from the game? What other solution is there when there is a schedule to keep? Allowing more time to finish doesn't solve it either, since that just enables players to take longer.

Capt K

Green Blow Fly wrote:mauleed if you are as good as you say then you should attend adepticon. There you can prove it to everyone.

I have signed up for the invitational.

- G

Really, I'm a fantasy player now, so no boasts on my part. I am likely to make the swing back this year, but at this very moment I'm mediocre at best.

Ed I think you are a top player.

- G

CaptKaruthors wrote:So what do you do then? Remove a time limit from the game? What other solution is there when there is a schedule to keep? Allowing more time to finish doesn't solve it either, since that just enables players to take longer.

Capt K

All you have to do is make sure that each player gets the same amount of turns. That is it.

One player should never have 5 1/2 turns and the other player gets 5.

You should not start a new turn unless you can finish it, but sometimes you get close to finishing one, and time is called. If you are close to finishing the turn, then you should finish it, not stop in the middle of it where one person is at a disadvantage.

mauleed wrote:
Really, I'm a fantasy player now, so no boasts on my part. I am likely to make the swing back this year, but at this very moment I'm mediocre at best.

Are you saying that you lost your Mojo?

ala Austin Powers

:

I never liked the dice down theory, nor the commandment that players can't start a turn if either one of them thinks they can't finish mostly for what Blackmore stated about shooty vs. assault armies.

I know the Adepticon people tend to micromanage to much and they need to be more subjective in throwing around the rulings in this. Near the end of time, each game should be judged on it's merits as to whether it should continue or not. This is the way I ran the Gladiator for a number of years and it always worked out fine.

This is also the ruling I made in your game Hank that allowed you the time necessary to win your Gladiator championship as I recall.

Judges need to pay attention to the games. See who came late and started late. If an IG player with 27 lascannons and 150 guys is in the bathroom at the start of the game, then sorry but your going to go a few extra turns to make sure it's fair that your opponent can get to assault on turn 3.

It's amazing how players speed up when you tell them the clock is off and they will finish the game.

DarthDiggler wrote:udges need to pay attention to the games. See who came late and started late. If an IG player with 27 lascannons and 150 guys is in the bathroom at the start of the game, then sorry but your going to go a few extra turns to make sure it's fair that your opponent can get to assault on turn 3.

It's amazing how players speed up when you tell them the clock is off and they will finish the game.

I agree with your philosophy, and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

But more - I want public shaming. It is quickly apparent when someone is intentionally slowing the game to advantage, and I want everyone in the hall to know that the next round will be delayed, pending the completion of Name and Name's game. Leave it to the audience to figure out which is responsible for the delay. Do that for a tourney or two, and I imagine it'll die off pretty completely, leaving only games between assault horde armies as the issue.

I completely agree with you Fred. I lost three games this year due to time being called. One of them was in the second round of the 40K championships at AdeptiCon, which would have taken five minutes tops with the few number of models that were left. I was clearly setup for a six turn win and tried to push to move faster, but my opponent took his time.

I have made it a goal to practice speed playing more. The tough objective is to work on keeping sportsmanship high, while pushing my opponents.

Blackmoor wrote:

mauleed wrote:
Really, I'm a fantasy player now, so no boasts on my part. I am likely to make the swing back this year, but at this very moment I'm mediocre at best.

Are you saying that you lost your Mojo?

No, but I am saying I don't play much, which means I can't play those games where I'm at a disadvantage and still expect to win on skill.

I'll come back, I just need to decide on an army.

Janthkin wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:udges need to pay attention to the games. See who came late and started late. If an IG player with 27 lascannons and 150 guys is in the bathroom at the start of the game, then sorry but your going to go a few extra turns to make sure it's fair that your opponent can get to assault on turn 3.

It's amazing how players speed up when you tell them the clock is off and they will finish the game.

I agree with your philosophy, and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

But more - I want public shaming. It is quickly apparent when someone is intentionally slowing the game to advantage, and I want everyone in the hall to know that the next round will be delayed, pending the completion of Name and Name's game. Leave it to the audience to figure out which is responsible for the delay. Do that for a tourney or two, and I imagine it'll die off pretty completely, leaving only games between assault horde armies as the issue.

That's bull too. I once played a game against a guy that should have beaten my shooty army with his assault army, but he honestly had to spend 20 minutes (of a strict 2 hours) in the bathroom taking care of business right in the middle of the game. So we only got 4 turns in, and when we tallied it up, it was a tie.

But because he was a member of a large and vocal club, it was somehow shenanigans on my part. So I'll never be keen on 'let the public decide'.

Just have the judges manage the time. Walk over to games that are running over and start making people finish their games. If you do that, you can get two turns done in 10 minutes. No talking, no pausing. Move, shoot, assault, next.

No matter what you do someone will be unhappy, and it is the unhappy people who are the most vocal. Personally I like the dice down rule. A smart player will keep an eye on the clock, most large tournaments announce the time and at the GTs they display the time on the wall for everyone to see.

- G

I don't mind the dice down rule either. Clock management is critical in all competitive games.

Capt K

CaptKaruthors wrote:I don't mind the dice down rule either. Clock management is critical in all competitive games.

Capt K

But in most of them, there are limits on how much of your clock your opponent can chew up. If it takes someone 30 minutes to complete turn 1, my ability to manage time isn't a ton of use.

so is the 40k championship still getting points in next years gw circiut? what about this one?

I've had people want to quit playing with 15 - 20 minutes left to go. I agree with Janthkin that there are times where no matter how well you manage the clock, you can not make up for your opponent.

Delay of game - lose five models.

I received an email from Jeff Chua indicating that this did count towards the 2008 circuit.

CaptKaruthors wrote:I don't mind the dice down rule either. Clock management is critical in all competitive games.

Capt K

I think you mean 'in all competitive games with clock management rules'.

Hey, just ensure me I get to play you in one game in all the adepticon tournaments and I'll come out. I'll wait until I have just enough VPs or objectives to win, and I'll go take a walk.