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MIND~GAMES
1759 West, 4160 South
Salt Lake City, Utah 84119
(801) 968~6365

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I'll be running another tourney at MG in Feb on the 23rd.

Time:
Shop opens at 11am.
I'll be there at 11am.
Games will start at 11:30am, barring any unforeseen circumstances.
First game 11:30am to 1:30pm.
20 minute lunch.
Second game 1:50pm-3:50pm.
10 minute break.
Third game 4pm-6pm.
Prizes 6:15pm.


This is a copy of the rules.

Criticism welcome. I have 2 months to fix anything really messed up. =)

When I get the new score sheets done, I'll post them.

I will attach the full doc so if you want to see the deployment zones you can...

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Trouble at Ikfal

Feb 23rd, 15$ entry fee (20$ from Feb 19 on.) 11am register, 11:30am start, finish 7pm.
3 games, 1650 points. Special characters allowed. Overall winner decided by BATTLE points. See ‘prizes’ top of 2nd page for more info. Max 18 players.

Tournament Special Rules

The following rules are *always* in effect: Victory Points, Table Quarters, Folly, The Battlefield, Starting, The Objectives.

Folly. Nominate one of your own units. That unit must re-roll successful armor saves, or your opponent may re-roll on the damage tables if you choose a vehicle unit.

The Battlefield: Terrain is fixed—that means do not move it, ever. Forests block LOS as they are area terrain. EDIT: Added: Trace LOS normally. A demonstration will occur before the first round begins.

EDIT: Deleted: If any other terrain is in the way when tracing LOS, be it size 2 or size 3; then LOS is blocked.

The Objectives:
Each objective is worth a certain number of battle points, the objectives differ per scenario in their value but otherwise remain the same throughout the tournament.
Primary is worth 12 Battle Points.
Secondary is worth 8 Battle Points.
Tertiary is worth 2 Battle Points PER quarter controlled by the player that controls the MOST quarters. So if Bob controls TWO, and Joe controls ONE, Bob gets 4 points and Joe gets 0. Ask me questions if this is confusing.
Bonus objectives are worth +1 or +2 Battle Points.
RECORD VICTORY POINTS SEPARATELY FROM BATTLE POINTS!

Starting: Roll a D6 to determine table side. The winner places a unit first.
Use this order to deploy: Troops, Elite, Heavy, Fast Attack, HQ. Winner deploys infiltration first, then alternate units until all infiltrators are placed. Roll a D6 and add your commanders initiative to determine who goes first—your commander is the model with the most wounds or costs the most in your HQ choices (your choice if tied). The winner here makes Scout moves first.

Deep strike: Roll a D6. On a 4+, deep strike is allowed for the game you are currently playing.

Infiltrate: Roll a D6. On a 4+, deep strike is allowed for the game you are currently playing.

Concealment is in effect for Turn 1 in ALL games.

The prizes are as follows: Best Overall (must be painted), Best General (most BP’s), The Butcher (most VP’s), Best Sportsman, Best Army (must be painted by you). 30/20/20/10/20 are the percentages of prizes given out for the awards, in order.

Best sportsman is determined by a combination of 'army flavor' and 'sportsmanship'. Ties will be broken by fewest VPs. Then by me.
Best Army is determined by a combination of 'army flavor' and 'best painted'. In other words, have a strong themed army that you painted, and you have a good chance to win. Tiebreakers will be judged by me.

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Secret plans:

EDIT: I'm going to change these to be do or don't. Declared by each player at the start of the game they are playing in.

Each race has secret plans. Carry them out, or don’t. It’s your call. Folly has it’s place, after all.

Before deployment, record SECRETLY on your score sheet which objective you are attempting to complete.

Show this to your opponent when the game ends but before you record his scores for painting, army flavor, and sportsmanship (or don't!).

You may only select one, and you receive the indicated Battle Points if you succeed. There is no penalty for failure...that you know of.

Your highest HQ must survive the game. +1 Battle Point each game.
Your highest HQ must *not* survive the game. +1 Battle point each game.
Your opponent must not have any scoring units in your deployment zone when the game ends. +1 Battle point each game
You must have scoring units in your opponent's deployment zone when the game ends. +1 Battle Point each game.
Control Freak. Control all four table quarters AND the table center at game end. +2 Battle Points each game.
Domination. Eliminate your enemies entire army before the game ends. +3 Battle Points.



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Scenario 1: No, YOU’RE lost!

Choose a unit from your own army list and record it on your scoring sheet, this unit can NOT change from game-to-game.
For this scenario: This unit shall remain in reserve, irregardless of other special rules, and remain there until Turn 3. On Turn 3, it will be eligible to enter play from your board edge. You may choose to delay deployment until Turn 4, whereupon it can enter from your opponents board edge. The unit MUST deploy on either Turn 3 or Turn 4. If you forget, the unit is destroyed.

Primary objective: Control the Objective markers. There are 2, placed on the middle line of the table, 12”in from the side of the board edge. Only scoring units with models within 6” of the objective can control it. Highest number takes the objective. You can still contest a table quarter and control these markers

Secondary objective: Add up total scoring units entirely within 12” of the board center. Highest total scoring units gives control of the center.

Tertiary objective: Control more table quarters than your opponent. Units entirely within 12” of the center cannot control table quarters, they’re controlling the center of the board! Highest total scoring units gives control of a quarter!

Deployment zones start 18” from each white corner

Bonus objective: +1 Your highest point unit must survive.
Bonus objective: +2 Get a scoring unit into your opponent’s deployment zone by Turn 5, and keep it there until the game ends.

Bonus Victory Points: +1000 points if you have more scoring units on the board at game end.

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Scenario 2: We were lost, and now we’re found.

Take the unit previously chosen as reserve in Game 1, and set it aside. This unit will enter play from either the right (1-3) or left (4-6) side of the table from the owning players perspective, on Turn 1.

Primary objective: Control the Objective markers. There are 2, placed on the middle line of the table, 12”in from the side of the board edge. Only scoring units with models within 6” of the objective can control it. Highest number takes the objective. You can still contest a table quarter and control these markers

Secondary objective: Add up total scoring units entirely within 12” of the board center. Highest total scoring units gives control of the center.

Tertiary objective: Control more table quarters than your opponent. Units entirely within 12” of the center cannot control table quarters, they’re controlling the center of the board! Highest total scoring units gives control of a quarter!

10” Deployment in the grey Zones,
From the board edge in.

Bonus objective: +1 Destroy opponent’s highest point cost unit (including any dedicated transport.)
Bonus objective: +2 Get a scoring unit into your opponent’s deployment zone by Turn 5, and keep it there until the game ends.

Bonus Victory Points: +1000 if you have a scoring unit in every table quarter at game end.

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Scenario 3: Folly.

Folly secret rule. Ask the tournament organizer about this on tournament day.

Primary objective: Control the Objective markers. There are 2, placed on the middle line of the table, 12”in from the side of the board edge. Only scoring units with models within 6” of the objective can control it. Highest number takes the objective. You can still contest a table quarter and control these markers

Secondary objective: Add up total scoring units entirely within 12” of the board center. Highest total scoring units gives control of the center.

Tertiary objective: Control more table quarters than your opponent. Units entirely within 12” of the center cannot control table quarters, they’re controlling the center of the board! Highest total scoring units gives control of a quarter!


12” Deployment Zones

Bonus objective: +1 Destroy opponent’s highest point cost unit (including any dedicated transport.)
Bonus objective: +2 No enemy troops choices are scoring units at end of game.

Bonus Victory Points: +1000 if you have a scoring unit in your opponents deployment zone at the start of your turn 4.

Some random thoughts:

Folly-just in case someone tries to abuse the wording, you may want to expand it to include saving throws that are not armor saves (cover, invulns) if that was your intention

Terrain-if I read this section correctly, Size 2 terrain will be blocking LOS between Size 3 objects. Was there a particular purpose for doing this (ie: store doesn't have enough Size 3 terrain or you want to place less emphasis on shooting)? To prevent any abuse here, you might also want to change this section so that the entirety of the LOS needs to be blocked by terrain-I'm sure as TO you will be on hand to stop any such chicanery, but better to eliminate any chance of it happening to begin with.

I like the multiple Objectives system a lot, particularly as it allows a player who focuses on the secondary/tertiary to walk away with as many VP's as the one who took the primary. Excellent.

Random access to DS/Infiltrate=good. I like things that force armies to work outside of their comfort zone and deal with wierd situations.

Starting Roll: Have you tried running this mechanism before? I like that it provides some disincentives to taking Eldrad (Autarch=better chance of choosing turn order), but outside of that it just seems wierd-as a player I would prefer to just use strategy ratings. Still places the Guard at a disadvantage, but at least that lucky 6 still beats the 5 it took my opponent three dice to get. You may also want to clarify whether certain bonuses (ie: Mark of Slaanesh) count as modifying the base profile for this roll.

The Butcher-Assuming your players have a sense of humor, I think you need to give out the WM Khador Butcher model with this one . . . and a 40mm base of course

Concealement=some reduction in the shooty benefits of going first=good.

Secret Plans: The only problem I have with this is that for some armies these bonus points will be exceedingly difficult to obtain. If you find it desirable to punish players for running certain types of armies (I'm thinking Guard gunlines that are going to struggle to avoid HtH and CC focused Eldar are well CC focused) that is your call, but it seems a bit out of whack when other armies (Orks, Tyranids, Dark Eldar) are practically given the same bonus. At +1 pt./game its not likely to make a huge difference, but it could still be a factor.

I do like the reserve unit mechanism-it forces a nice choice between foregoing something for a few turns in one game to have it flank-march the enemy the next game. It makes for some interesting choices and provides a sense that these series of games have some common linkage outside of being on the same day against the same pool of opponents.

Too bad I live 700 miles away-this sounds like a fun tournament to take Lelith-lead DE to.

Hopefully some of that qualified as constructive.

Thanks for the feedback. Let me see here.

Folly, just armor saves. Nothing else.

Oh Mind Games has GT class terrain--and no lava tables! I want to reinforce the mobility is key factor. Do you think it's going too far?

I spent a long time trying to make the objective system work. People were a little taken aback by it last tournament at first, but they shined up to it. I standardized it across all the scenarios, KISS after all is wise. I'm glad you like it.

Yeah I messed up last tournament and just put in DS/Infil in every scenario. Random instead seems better.

On the starting roll, actually if you win you don't have a choice--you *must* go first. I think strategy ratings and this method are similar, high strategy ratings = I5+, and low strategy ratings = I2+. It does speed the start of games up, without newer players having to figure out what their rating is. It's base Init only, I should clarify that.

Well the 'secret plans' aren't there to punish people, if that's the impression you get I should probably remove them. I want them to be more 'fun' than anything else.

Indeed I appreciate all the feedback.

I wouldn't say it was so much a deliberate punishment as a mechanism just unbalanced enough to weigh a close tourney to an army that took say Godzilla instead of Guard-not something tourney design should want to encourage. I think the minor bonuses system as you imagined it has a lot of potential, but maybe it needs a few fixes? For instance, for Guard, instead of being never engaging in CC, they could get a bonus battle point for winning a close combat or conducting a successful massacre-often challenging in the metagame and something more interesting to shoot for. Not impossible, but challenging enough with the more common gunline builds.

I assume by "GT class terrain" you mean minimal amounts-if so, then yeah make everything feasible size 3-just make sure to define low walls and such that might normally be size 2 as size 1 because a shrub blocking LOS between a Sentinel and a Monolith does seem a bit silly. I don't know how much control you have over the terrain for this, but I've recently played a few stores using labelled terrain (cards taped to the bottom of terrain features) with size definitions and any other stock characteristics on them-makes for the flexiblity you need for this event and will help eliminate arguments.

I'm still a fan of using Strat ratings, but since you have to go first that does ameliorate the problem a bit by taking out flexibility (I can see drug-crazed I8 Lelith seizing the initiative and striking first against a more cautious Tau/Gaurd commander, it was more the part of, for the sake of argument, Lelith on drugs using that bonus and going second that was a bit wierd-but problem solved).

Well I did a whole bunch of bonuses for the previous set of tournaments, but I want to make the system of bonuses scale up to a larger number of players; so I can't babysit 60 bonuses each different per game.

No I meant the terrain is great looking and functional. I want the terrain rules to be clear, I guess. lol cause they aren't really in the actual rules. I think straightening it up between 2 and 3 would help. Shrubs are the uber, ya know.

Every now and then someone sets up, then rolls thinking they are going to go first and that 5/1 comes up. lol It seems to balance well.

I think the Secret Plans mechanic is an interesting idea, but definitely needs more thought put into it.

For example, how is a Tyranid or Ork army not going to engage in close combat? That's how they play their game, and the lists revolve around getting their units into that position. Seems like a silly thing to give them a point for, it's comparable to giving a Space Marine army a point for shooting a lascannon.

On the flipside, why deny Eldar and Guard a point for, say, taking Harlequins, Scorpions, Banshees, Autarchs, Rough Riders, Ogryns, etc.? They might not be the greatest options, but it seems that condition is more about influencing army composition rather than producing a challenging objective to a player. What are said armies to do when they come up against an army like Nids, Orks, or DE?

It's an interesting idea, which I like, and the conditions of keeping the HQ's alive/dead are cool (though I can see some issues may arise). It sounds like you have a lot of time to figure this out, but I'm not entirely sure that a point system like this can be entirely successful.

I changed the secret plans. They'll be on/off instead of just one way. So you can engage or not engage, lose or not lose your HQ, etc and decide before each game starts what you are going for.

What do you think? Less punishing, more rewarding?

Stelek wrote:I changed the secret plans. They'll be on/off instead of just one way. So you can engage or not engage, lose or not lose your HQ, etc and decide before each game starts what you are going for.

What do you think? Less punishing, more rewarding?

I would either clarify the order of declaration for on/off or make the declaration secret/written and then revealed at the end of the game. The CC ones still feel wierd, but with that system it would be more workable. It would be kinda funny though if they were all the HQ one. I get bonus Battle Points if my 40-pt JO dies, so stay away scary things!

It solves certain things, in that it's no longer a punishing requirement, but still it does mean that certain armies are getting 'free' points while others will have to work for them a little bit harder. I think being more specific is necessary here, for example if you've already got having your HQ live or die for certain armies, instead of having DE engage in combat for their points why not have them get a point for killing an enemy HQ? Seems a little bit more DE, they're evil, like to torture, that sort of thing. Rather than an auto-point situation once they do what they're good at, it's simply another objective that they can apply themselves to.

Well, how about a generic table and you pick one with the harder ones worth more BPs?

This is mostly a reminder for myself to come fix this up later.

Fixing this now. Page 2 will be fixed. I'll have to incorporate a place on the scoring sheet to record the unit chosen AND the objective, but there is room to do so.

Stelek wrote:Well, how about a generic table and you pick one with the harder ones worth more BPs?

That would be great to have, particularly if the selection is kept secret by each player

Actually I did something like that at 2 tournaments. It's hard to keep track of.

Here's the preliminary scoring sheet.

I think I should put in what the scores should reflect into the tournament rules, or on the scoring sheet.

What do others think would work best?

For the overall and any tie breakers, only the *highest* out of the following three categories is considered for final score:

Painting, Sportsmanship, and Army Flavor.

As everyone is required to put in a minimum of an 4 on one of those scores, this gives me statistical variation but I think limits people in how much they can 'ding' a person.

Example: Billy gets 15 battle points, a 1 on painting, a 2 on sportsmanship, and a 4 on army flavor.

For his tournament score, he'd have a 19. (15+4, ignoring the other lower scores).

That allows 'soft' scores to be included without changing the fact this is a tournament and you're either here to show off your pretty army or crush the enemy.

To determine Best Army, a combination of Army Flavor and Painting would determine, ties broken by Sportsmanship.

To determine Best Sportsman, a combination of Army Flavor and Sportsmanship would determine, ties broken by Painting.

At larger tournaments like a Indy or GT, I'd make it a scale of 1-10 and a minimum of 8.

Thoughts? Comments? Critique?

You may want to think about how Folly would interact with existing re-rolls. For instance, if a Fortuned model failed a save, then passed it on its Fortune re-roll, re-rolling it because of Folly would be re-rolling a re-roll, which the BGB disallows. (By the same token, an armour save that is initially passed, the failed due to Folly, would be ineligible to be re-rolled by Fortune.) A similar situation would arise from Decoy Launchers on Tau vehicles. Of course, this isn't a problem by RAW, but you ought to clarify for the sake of your players.

Folly is a special rule, it overrides the normal rules.

Essentially whether it's your 1st or 2nd roll, you'd still need to pay the piper.

Like this: Pass, take the folly re-test. Fail, re-roll fortune and succeed, take the folly re-test.

It's one of those things you have to communicate verbally...essentially you will always have to take the folly test. You can still get rerolls yourself, but this is essentially a forced reroll you have to apply the 'worst' case on.

Vs vehicles, it's different--your opponent may choose to re-roll on the damage table. He doesn't have to, after all.
If he got a 5 and re-rolled vs Tau and got a 2, he could choose to re-roll it. The decoy launchers work only once, but folly is forever? lol

Hope it makes sense. As soon as you pass your own save, you have to folly it. As soon as your opponent chooses to re-roll the dice, the next result stands (unless of course it's a ven dread or decoy, but then the next one stands.)

I'm confident in the players and my ability to figure it out.

It makes perfect sense, but is not the way it would play out by RAW.

I'm just saying that if you want it to supercede the usual "no re-rolling re-rolls" rule, you should add a clause at the end saying "This overrides the usual rule against re-rolling a re-roll--you must perform the Folly re-roll no matter what." A mere 18 words to pre-empt a lot of potential confusion.

Bump.

So what's the final missions and time ect. A current post with all the info please. Me and a couple of friends are thinking of taking the trek down to have some fun.

I believe everything is current. I updated the LOS rules, that's the only change. Oops, included the play schedule. I run a face-paced tournament.

I'll be making a new scoresheet and I'll post it as soon as I do.

Edit: Here's the scoresheet for next week's tournament.

It's in MS Publisher format.

Myself and a few of the boys went down and had a good time. Stelek ran a great tourney so props and the guys at MG were all fun to play. Stelek actually used a laptop with a spread sheet and actually tracked battle points, and victory points from round to round. While this may be the norm for the rest of the world it hasn't been that way in UT at the last couple of tourneys I have attended. All missions/scenarios were great. A little more terrain would have been nice but sometimes you can't have cake and eat it to. (Whatever that means?)

Sweet Tourney, I'd have to say that was the best I've been to... and I've been to a few. The orginization and overall level of professionalism was outstanding. The terrian was not a problem for me as I brought my own, LOL.

Thanks guys, glad you came.

Yes, using a spreadsheet is crazy stuff in UT.

I could have put more terrain on, but it was all old gakky stuff. Well, better than most other places here that put out felt and call it a forest...but it doesn't meet my/our standards.

I hope to refurbish a few older pieces of terrain, make some new ones, and fix up a couple of the boards in time for the next tournament.

Just have to figure out how to get that city fight terrain to have a purpose. Ah it's probably a lost cause.

I'll put the results spreadsheet up tomorrow, soon as I get a chance. I'm pretty beat. lol

I was asked to post what the prizes were real quick, here they are:

330$ was paid for entrance fees. 14 people paid 15 dollars in advance, 6 people paid 20 dollars. I added in 30 dollars of my own.

This worked out to:

108$ + 2 free 10$ blisters for the overall champ.
72$ + 1 free 10$ blister to Best General, Best Army, and The Butcher (each, not collectively).
36$ went to best sportsman.

Real figs is IMO better than a silly t-shirt, plaque, or someones old nicely painted demon prince model.

Overall and Best Army went to out-of-towners, and the other 3 prizes went to local regulars.

I don't work for Matt (owner of Mind Games) and I don't get much but the right to run the tourney the way I see fit by running them there, but he does make some money out of the tourney (since his cost is less than ours, of course) and I can only say I make him pay all the money paid in, out in face value merchandise.

Which is something else most other stores don't do in Utah. Or Wyoming, Nevada, or Idaho. (All states I've regularly gone to RTT's in years past although I admit I've given up on most crummy RTT's).

So to answer the anonymous question, I don't earn money, I don't get paid money--I pay out to boost the prizes, I pay to get more terrain in (although Matt pays alot more than I do), and I contribute my time to running the tournament gratis. I don't show any favorites, all results are shown to anyone who wants to see, and I encourage non-MG people to come play because I love putting on a good show for everybody.

Hope that answers the question. lol

Couple images from the tournament...

Gathering around, registering, ready for announcements:


Playing some games (round 3):

That 2nd pic was round 3 silly.

Got more pics? lol post 'em all.

Is that 3 pieces of terrain on that table? (2 small hills and a small woods). I have seen more terrain on the lava tables at the Vegas GT.

Darrian

Gee, trolling so early? Course, everyone said to expect one of the four wonderbuggies to immediately troll, but wow that was fast even for you.

5 pieces per board, actually.

By the way, since the lava table terrain at the LVGT is totally unplayable--why's it matter how much unplayable terrain is on per board?

Hopefully by next tournament I can get high quality terrain per board to seven.

Like I said (but of course you ignored it, you couldn't resist taking a cheap shot, could ya buddy?) there was plenty of terrain to bump it to 7 pieces per table, I just like having good quality terrain not crap.

Like oh most other RTT's in the country have.

Here's an excellent example:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/207553.page

I note you didn't say anything about the horrible terrain there, kinda funny huh.

Troll troll go away, come back another day!

Pretty defensive aren't ya? Guess you can't handle a simple question. If I knew you were so sensitive, I would not have posted.

BTW, that is a real nice lookin store.

Darrian

No darrian, just sick of you and your normal petty personal attacks in oh just about every thread I post in.

Grow up.

Here's a picture of the results.

Got it to display the way I wanted.

Just so people know, you cannot win more than 1 prize at tournaments I host. It's a lame feature of most tournaments I hope people figure out annoys people no end.

Since Best Army was worth more than Best Sportsman, Mike W got Best Army and Arthur got Best Sportsman.

If the prizes had been worth the same, it would have been determined by the 3rd soft score then by BPs, then by VPs, and then finally by me.

By the way you can't see the 'combo' scores, they're on another sheet but how the scores work is like this:

Overall is highest BPs + highest soft score (must be a painted army).
Best General is highest BPs.
The Butcher is highest VPs.
Best Army is highest flavor + highest painting (must be a painted army).
Best Sportsman is highest flavor + highest sportsmanship.