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My first real Apocalypse conversion, the Land Raider Apollo.
325 points
Turbolaser Destructor w/ Coax Autocannon
Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Specal Rules:
"Oversized weapon" If you roll a 1 to hit with the Turbolaser, roll an additional D6. On a 1-5 the Turbolaser may not fire next turn. On a 6, the Turbolaser and autocannon are destroyed and the tank is stunned next turn.

"Slaved Spirit" The Machine spirit may always fire the Turolaser and autocannon, and may select a target seperate from the tank's crew, but may never fire any other weapons or move the tank.

What I always thought the Terminus should have been.

You put the sponsons in the wrong place! Everyone knows you're supposed to put the exits In Front of the guns!!

I think the work on the turbolaser is very nice. But the coax autocannon is sort of letting you down. It's not nearly as well integrated as the laser is. I'd consider nixing it all together for a sleeker look. Plus the machine spirit can't see with it in the way ^_^!

Maybe the autocannon could be kinda underslung. Just attach it some how to the bottom of the laser. Hope that was helpful. Its still better than anything I could do.
-skavenfreak

Does the vehicle forfeit its transport capacity.

It does, otherwise that's just... broken

Aduro wrote:You put the sponsons in the wrong place! Everyone knows you're supposed to put the exits In Front of the guns!!

I'm slow. I hadn't realized that until you mentioned it.

nice painting.

Feor wrote:On a 1-5 the Turbolaser may not fire next turn...

"Slaved Spirit" The Machine spirit may always fire the Turolaser...

Does that mean, even when you roll a 1 for the Turbolaser, the Machine Spirit can fire it, or is that an exception to the Slaved Spirit rule?

It'd be an exception. Those are obviously a fairly quick version of the rules.

Does the Slaved Spirit have the same BS of a Machine Spirit, or will it be able to hit on something better than a 5+?

Aduro wrote:You put the sponsons in the wrong place! Everyone knows you're supposed to put the exits In Front of the guns!!

I saw this and had to check my own Land Raiders. I ran down to the basement and discovered that I was 50/50. OOPS!! My Space Wolves, as eager as they are to jump out and into combat were smart enough to place the guns in the forward position. My Darkhounds on the other hand... well... we lose more men that way!

To be honest I put my guns in front of my hatches too, it just makes alot more sense to me that way.

Making the gun a turbo laser destructor is a bit of a stretch. Thats a Titan mounted weapon. And giving it a coaxial autocannon is just cheese. I would have to call shenanigans on you if you tried to use this in a game. It might be better if you made it a battle cannon since that is the actual piece you are using to represent the main gun. Glueing a battle cannon on a land raider and calling it a turbo laser destructor is BS. A baneblade level land raider is easier to believe than a titan level land raider. Oh and it should absolutley loose its transport capacity.

Except it's not a Battle Cannon. If I was just going to call it the bit it was originally, it'd be a Baneblade Cannon with a coaxial autocannon, since that's what I used.

And you're right, it is a Titan Weapon, hence the "oversized weapon" rule. There's a decent chance this thing will just shut itself down when firing and be useless for a turn (1/6) and a not outside chance (1/36) that the gun will blow itself to kingdom come when firing.

I like the conversion work for the turbo laser. I've never seen a Land Raider quite like this, therefore, it really caught my eye. The Autocannon barrel doesn't really seem to mesh well in it's current configuration. Maybe some small plasticcard pieces to help hide where the barrel meets the tank?

The paintwork is pretty decent. Did you use an airbrush for the yellow?

Thanks for posting. (Sorry, can't comment on the rules as I don't play or own Apocolypse)

My Sponses are in the back. I figure that my CSM would boil out the front most of the time. Besides, my freehand skulls on the side would silly in the back as opposed to up front

Baneblade cannon. I stand corrected. And yes since that is the bit you used, those are the rules you should use. And a titan doesn't even get the ranging shot you are getting from a coaxial auto cannon.

Your "oversized weapon" rule only comes into play if you roll a 1 and then the tank only blows up if you roll a 6. Those aren't bad odds. To me that isn't much of a concession to having a titan mounted D strength weapon on a standard sized tank. Maybe if it blows up an a 4+, that 50/50 odds after you roll a 1.

You could tone this down and still have an excellant tank without making it cheesy. Its always better to error on the side of caution. You could have made it a laser destroyer (str 10 and decent range) although I would still ask you to keep the BS at 3, battle cannon, baneblade cannon, executioner plasma cannon or even a volcano cannon (without the coaxial autocannon). Bottom line I wouldn't play against this even in Apocalypse. It just looks like someone trying to make up an unfair advantage.

Frankly, I don't see how this is cheesy. If you're using it against all infantry armies, then yes, it's Cheesetastic.

However, this is an anti-titan weapon, and so should be used to counter Titans or other super-heavies. It, itself, is not a super heavy. So while it's shooting at a titan, making it stagger back and lose a structure point or two, the Titan is returning fire with what is most likely it's own S8+ weapon. Very likely scoring penetrating hits, and pretty much guaranteeing that the Turbolaser is going to be BS2, fired by the Machine Spirit when the tank gets stunned.

Gosh, then you won't mind me using my sentinel with the Vortex missle launcher and vulcan mega bolter with coaxial autocannon (you know, so I don't have to guess at range) oh and don't forget the sensor array so I get BS 4 against your Land Raider Apollo. It cost 400 points and has the Oversized Weapon Rule so it makes it OK, really. I call it the Chicken Hawk.

Now, all that is a little much for 400 points. I'd let you have it for 500 though, sure. It's just a fancied up Knight Baron titan. I'd also say it's too heavy to have the scout rule.

Of course, the difference is mine actually has some fluff background (had to stop a titan, Turbolaser from a downed Thunderhawk, autocannon + sponsons from a Predator) Where as your is just tryingto tac the most powerful stuff you can onto something to try and make me look like an idiot.

Think about it. How long does it take the average Land Raider to Explode in a regular 40K game? Now, put it in Apocalypse where it's going to be facing many more anti-tank weapons, and will have a giant Bullseye on it for every superheavy on the table. This thing will be lucky to get 2 shots off before something destroys it.

Kudos on a well done conversion, the main gun looks dead sexy. I agree about what folks have said about the autocannon, though... it looks like all you did was glue it on to the fron of the machine spirit's targeting array - which in fact you did. With the beauty and cleanness of the main gun, the autocannon is... distracting. If you can relocate it without horribly effing up your nice paint job, you might think about it.

Heavygear wrote:You could tone this down and still have an excellant tank without making it cheesy. Its always better to error on the side of caution. You could have made it a laser destroyer (str 10 and decent range) although I would still ask you to keep the BS at 3, battle cannon, baneblade cannon, executioner plasma cannon or even a volcano cannon (without the coaxial autocannon). Bottom line I wouldn't play against this even in Apocalypse. It just looks like someone trying to make up an unfair advantage.

I concure 100%. 1000%. To as much an extent as is possible. The tank is gorgeous, but its rules don't pass the common sense test. Your mounting a weapon that draws power from a fusion power plant on a vehicle that operates from an ICE (internal combustion) engine. I have no doubt that its a far superior ICE engine than we have today, with far greater energy output, but the ability to power a weapon that belongs on a space cruiser...? That fails me in the common sense department - which is where EVERY homemade datafax should start AND finish.

I second the call to tone it down to anything you might find on a vehicle without structure points. I think a laser destroyer is spot on, and can still do the task you designed ot to do - hunt the big nasties.

Feor wrote:Think about it. How long does it take the average Land Raider to Explode in a regular 40K game? Now, put it in Apocalypse where it's going to be facing many more anti-tank weapons, and will have a giant Bullseye on it for every superheavy on the table. This thing will be lucky to get 2 shots off before something destroys it.

The fact that it is likely to be a 1 hit wonder is entirely irrelevant to whether a D weapon belongs on a standard vehicle. The fact that it will immediately die after shooting once is an indicator that the weapon belonbgs on a more powerful, more sturdy, more survivable platform. "Scavenging the gun from a downed thunderhawk" doesn't make the lieklihood of the vehicle operating - at all - any more likely. A background story is not a substitute for common sense.

Your laser cannon is too big for a tank this size! Unrealistic!

Are we actually having this conversation? Don't get me wrong: there's nothing wrong with obsessing over fluff. When you start dictating what other people should or should not field based on your own understanding of this imaginary universe, however, you're crossing from "loveable fluffbunny" to "sanctimonious gakker" territory IMO. The fluff justification is his own business; the power level of the thing, something for him and his mates to sort out.

I've been toying around with a similar idea, but making the turbolaser on a turret instead. So far, your conversion is looking much better than my own sorry attempts. Keeping the weapon's appearance in line with Space Marine lascannons is a really nice touch, too.

As far as the guys saying to use "Baneblade" weapons instead of "Titan" weapons, I'd like to point out that the Shadowsword (a Baneblade variant) uses the same turbolaser, except that it looks like a plastic roller meant to hold toilet paper.

But, the criticisms about the co-axial autocannon hold true. It really does look like you've added it on as an afterthought. I'd dump it if you get the chance.

Actually the shadowsword's main gun is a VOLCANO CANNON. The difference being it is an ordanance weapon and so its subject to scatter. You've gone so far as to intentionally use the TURBO LASER because its a heavy choice and you get to use space marine BS 4 when shooting with no scatter. The turbo laser is only mounted on Titans and is usually more than one barrel so technically your gun doesn't even exist within the rules. You've added a co axial autocannon which actually allows you to reroll misses, Titans don't even get this. You make up a weak rule to allow you to mount a titan class weapon to a model that is a heavy support choice, not even a super heavy.

I have no problem with his fluff accept he's using it to gain an advantage on the table top. Again you could have made this a reasonable variant by using say a another standard tank weapon or even just a baneblade cannon which is what is modeled on the tank anyway. Apocalypse is supposed to be strictly WYSIWYG. Its in the rules.

Instead you have intentionally gone through the data sheets and found a weapon that will give you the maximum advantage you can get. Total cheese. That why I wouldn't play against this. It's not in the spirit of creativity or modeling or fair competition. Its just cheating.

The only redeeming thing about this vehicle is that it doesn't have structure points. Even at that a Land Raider has the best armor values of any tank in the game. A baneblade doesn't even get 14 all the way around unless it loses its side turrets. The "how long does the average land raider last in a game" defense kind of suffers. Its probably longer than a leman russ.

tegeus-Cromis wrote:Your laser cannon is too big for a tank this size! Unrealistic!

Are we actually having this conversation? Don't get me wrong: there's nothing wrong with obsessing over fluff. When you start dictating what other people should or should not field based on your own understanding of this imaginary universe, however, you're crossing from "loveable fluffbunny" to "sanctimonious gakker" territory IMO. The fluff justification is his own business; the power level of the thing, something for him and his mates to sort out.

Yet posting it here is akin to asking for people's input (I can't remember if he asked for comments or no, but even if he didn't, posting custom work automatically comes with an unwritten request for feedback - its part of the points cost of the post). I know I can get hotheaded sometimes, but I think I did pretty well keeping my comments constructive...

DeathGod:
Well if he changed the Turbolaser with coax Autocannon to just a Volcano Cannon, would you be okay with it?

Jeez, chill out. It's Apocalypse - it's supposed to be for fun.

I mean, I plan on playing a "Battle of the Broken" with Extrenm(54) this summer, where each of us bring about 3000 points of HQ choices. That's ridiculous, but we'll still have fun (Despite the fact that he has a Nightbringer) without getting all bent outta shape because of something being too powerful for an ad hoc play style.

CK

Hang on, lemme go looka t the rules for the VC... where is my damn book...

To be honest, no. A Volcano Cannon is STILL a titan class weapon. When you can find another D class weapon on a legitimate vehicle that DOESNT have structure points, I'll reconsider my position. As it stands, IMO, a laser destroyer is a far better choice: it suits the specified mission of the tank - anti-armour, it fits the converted model, and common sense doesn't kill the idea. What you guys are talking about is the equivalent of WWII German engineers taking a quad 15-inch main gun turret off the Bismarck and installing it on a Tiger mk II. I know we're all talking about make believe universes here, and I'll sleep just fine (when I actually go to sleep) regardless of what rules Feor uses. I just think D weapons have no palce on a standard tank chassis.

And let me reiterate, with the exception of the autocannon that is pretty much universally frowned on (and looks to be like a very easy fix), I LOVE the model. I think the laser was well done, it fits into the hull very cleanly (not the easiest thing to do witht he various angular surfaces of the front of a raider), the sponsons say "we're here to keep away the meltabombs and thats about it", which is perfect for defensive-engineered weapons mounts. All in all I think Feor did a bang-up job. I'd just change the datafax a tad.

It's just a Land Raider. It's going to get one shot. That cannot be stated more in this debate. Ok, so it shoots a good hole in a Titan, which takes a structure point or two. Then, a Baneblade or something like it splatters it and flattens everything in a forty foot radius.
BTW, fluff nuts, the Land Raider has a reactor. Those smokestacks vent steam. Though I can't remember the number of the issue, a White Dwarf magazine article on famous Land Raiders mentioned a Crimson Fists Land Raider that went on a self-controlled Machine-Spirit guided rampage. When the orks broke into it's hull, it sealed them inside and vented it's reactor waste into the crew compartment. (When I get to my house, I'll check the exact issue number.)
I suggest you make it so that if it dies, it explodes 3d6 S7 AP4 or something like that, as it's overstressed little reactor goes off.