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Now that the 5th edition codex FAQs are out, it is time to compile a list of questions that remain unanswered by the FAQs (or that are still confusing despite the FAQ). This list can then be edited and submitted to GW or used for your own personal house rules, etc.

The point of this thread is to submit questions that get frequently asked and/or particular situations that are confusing to you personally. Whether or not you feel these questions can be easily answered by the RAW isn't the point. If you'd like to point out that you feel a question is covered by the existing rules feel free to do so, but in a polite manner and be done with it. If anyone would like to argue the validity of a question, feel free to start a separate thread to do so (violators will have their posts deleted from this thread).

Just off the top of my head I know that a lot of codexes don't have the weapons on their vehicles classified as either turret, pintle, sponson or hull so anyone who wants to take the time to catalog all those instances would be doing a world of good.

Thanks to Stelek for giving this project a kick-start. Most of the initial questions in this thread were submitted by him in individual threads. I only combined them because I was afraid certain threads would get lost in the shuffle and several people had already started to de-rail his threads by arguing the validity of his questions rather than working towards providing more questions.



RULEBOOK
Do codex rules for weapons, wargear, and equipment take precedence over those found in the main rulebook like Smoke Launchers do?

Page 68 BRB "When moving a tank, the player can declare that the vehicle is going to attempt a tank shock attack instead of moving NORMALLY" Please define what moving normally means. For example, is moving Flat Out a normal move? Is moving in the shooting phase with Star Engines a normal move?

Can Ramming be declared at any time other than the movement phase?

The rules state "Ramming is another form of a tank shock" does this mean that if a vehicle can Tank Shock, that it by all rights can declare a Ramming action? Were the rules for Ramming intended to be a exclusive of the rules for Tank Shock and the reference to Tank Shock nothing more than a guide to how you go about executing the action?

What is the maximum strength attack a Ramming attack can make?

What happens if your Ramming Attack takes you off the table?

Can passengers fire from an open topped fast vehicle if it moves 6-12" - Trukks, DE Raiders?

If a deep striking skimmer lands in difficult terrain, does it take a dangerous terrain test? Drop pods, same thing. And what about a unit from a drop pod disembarking into difficult terrain (they ARE considered to be deep striking, after all)?

Charge reaction and True Grit or Furious Charge (may have name wrong, the space wolves +2 on charge rule), how do they interact. Do all units with Countercharge get +1 attack on the charge reaction or do their own special rules for charge bonuses or lack thereof take precedence?

any clarification on weather or not you can stack rending and low ap hits on single models or do you have to spread them out like instant death taking away whole multi-wound models?

If you have a IC in one unit, and that unit is destroyed during the shooting step; and there is another unit within 2", does the IC join that unit? If so, when? His shooting, his assault?

In Spearhead missions, can reserves enter play anywhere along your board edge, or just on the half used for initial deployment?

In Dawn of War missions, can transport vehicles be deployed with other units or IC's inside? Or is the requirement strict so that you could deploy EITHER an HQ unit OR their transport, but not both?

Can units with both Infiltrate and a Dedicated Transport use the Outflank move to deploy?


BLACK TEMPLARS
The vow, "Uphold the Honor of the Emperor" states: "No unit may benefit from cover for Saving throws." Since intervening models are considered cover that provides a 4+ save, does this mean that with this vow Black Templars models may not take "intervening cover saves?" Also, does this mean that it is useless to Go to Ground when taking this vow?

The vow Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch talks about Concealment. Since I cannot find any such rule in the 5th Edition Rulebook, am I right in assuming that this part of the rule no longer exists?

Cenobyte Servitors are listed in the Wargear section of the Codex. They lack the superscript "T" that indicates what items models in Terminator Armor may take, which would suggest that Chaplains in Terminator Armor may not take Cenobyte Servitors from the Wargear section of the book. However,in the Black Templars Chaplain Entry, under the heading "Reclusiam Command Squad," the Codex clearly states that a Chaplain may be accompanied by 3 Cenobyte Servitors from the Company Chapel. In short, are Cenobyte Servitors pieces of wargear, or separate entries that do not count toward the Wargear limit and that can be taken even when the Chaplain is in Terminator Armor?

Cenobyte Servitors are described as being part of the Chaplain's entourage. They and the chaplain form a unit (despite the fact that the Chaplain can still attach to and detach from other squads), does this mean that the Chaplain cannot be picked out when in assault so long as he is accompanied by his Cenobyte Servitors? When attached to a unit, do the Cenobyte Servitors have to remain within 2" of the Chaplain? Or do they just need to maintain coherency with the same unit the Chaplain joined?

If the Emperor's Champion is taken in an army of 750 points or less, is he still required to take a vow, despite the fact that the army will not benefit from it? Is he must, does the EC at least benefit from his own vow, or are those just wasted points?

The Black Templars Bike Squadron subheading for "Options" says that up to three Initiates may exchange their Bolt Pistols for one of the following, yet the Weapons subheading mentions only the bike with twin-linked bolters and frag grenades. Is this an omission? Do Black Templar bikes count as having an additional close combat weapon as a result of this?

The Black Templars Land Raider Crusader is listed as having a Transport capacity of 15 models, while both the BA and DA codex list the Crusader as having a capacity of 16. Despite this discrepancy, both versions may carry 8 Terminator-armored models. What, then, is the capacity of Land Raider Crusader?

Despite the unofficial consensus regarding Righteous Zeal's interaction with Go to Ground, how exactly do the two work together? If you Go to Ground to benefit from a cover save, yet still take casualties, do you still make a Righteous Zeal check, even though you are technically pinned at the time of rolling? If you pass your RZ check, do you still get to make your D6" consolidate move as per Zeal, or are you stuck in place as per Go To Ground? If you get to make your Zeal move, do you no longer have to abide by the Go To Ground restrictions in the next turn?

Under the Emperor's Champion entry, in the text following "Slayer of Champions," it states that the Emperor's Champion must move into base-to-base with any enemy IC that is involved in the same close combat. My question is this -- if an IC takes a Retinue that makes him an upgrade character, does the Slayer of Champions rule no longer have any affect?


CHAOS SPACE MARINES
Can Chaos Dreadnoughts that Fire Frenzy opt to run instead of firing?

Can you force a unit to take multiple dangerous terrain tests if lashed in and out of dangerous terrain?

Does attaching Kharn to a unit let the unit ignore Psychic powers? Or is his null rod not the same as the Imperial version?

When a Sorcerer with Lash of Submission is attached to another unit and wants to use the Lash and have the unit he is attached with fire also, when does the effect of the Lash go off:
A) After rolling to hit but before wounding?
B) Anytime before or after you roll to hit and wound with the rest of the squad?
C) Before rolling to hit?
D) After rolling to hit and wound?
E) Any time you want during this units eligibility to fire?



DARK ELDAR
When you tank shock, since you cannot Ram other vehicles--do you stop at any vehicle, or fly over any other vehicle as if they weren't there?

The Webway portal is still unclear on whether the person deploying it can move in the movement phase on the turn it is deployed or not, the two common interpretations are that you have to remain motionless in both the movement and shooting phase(and not shoot) to deploy it, or that you merely deploy it instead of performing any other action in the shooting phase and can do this after moving in the movement phase.

The FAQ makes it clear the talos is a Monstrous Creature, it states it uses the Monstrous Creature rules "rather than skimmers" does this mean it no longer uses the skimmer rule in the Dark Eldar Codex or merely that it is not a Skimmer in the sense of the Core Rulebook?

Additionally, with the Talos' special rules for attacking a vehicle it is clear that it only rolls once for armour penetration, however, is this roll 2d6 as per a monstrous creature, or 1d6 since the special rule makes no mention of a special roll for penetration?

The FAQ states xenospasm grenade effects are cumulative if fired by the same unit, however the xenospasm is a 1 per army wargear, what is this entry in the FAQ supposed to be demonstrating?

The Nightmare Doll allows the player to force a reroll on the dice for table edge, is this piece of wargear now useless or can it be used to force a reroll of the dice off for table edge still despite this now also governing who deploys and moves first?

The FAQ says that a character on Hellion skyboard cannot charge 12" as the drugs cannot make the board go faster, what does this mean for a character on the skyboard assaulting into cover, do they still make a difficult terrain test as per normal jump infantry due to the fact that they "cover the last few yards of an assault on foot." or do they make a dangerous terrain test as a model on a bike would and assault 6" always?

Are Poisoned Blades (and therefore also Scissorhands) Poisoned Weapons granting them a re-roll for wounding when the user's strength is equal to or greater than the target's toughness as per the latest Core rulebook? What about Agonizers?

Can a Tormentor Helm be used as a pistol to fire in the shooting phase?

What happens when a Wraithcannon is fired at a Grotesque, do the wraithcannon wounding rules or the grotesque Feel no Pain rules take priority, or alternatively are the grotesques only wounded on a 6 which is also an instant death?

Can a Wych Dracite be used in a Dark Eldar Kabal army (one led by an Archon/Dracon)?

The restrictions for a Wych Cult army given with the Dark Eldar Wych Lord prevent the use of Dark Eldar Lords which include both Archons and Dracons, however the rules for a Wych Cult given with Lelith Hesperax only restricts Archons, allowing Dracons to be used. Is one of these more correct or does Lelith simply have different restrictions on her Wych Cult?

Were Wych Weapons designed to halve the opponent's weapon skill when the opponent attacks Wyches, or were the weapons designed to halve the opponent's weapon skill when attacking and being attacked by Wyches?

As a "skimmer", how far can a Talos move in the movement phase? It seems to me as though they should simply be treated as "jetbike" rules.

How do webway portals effect models attempting to leave or fall back?

Was Screaming Jets (written with the 3rd edition rules in mind) missed with regard to the latest FAQ? Specifically, should passengers aboard a DE transport be allowed to disembark when Deep Striking as a result of taking the Screaming Jets vehicle upgrade?


ELDAR
Can models that suffer from a 1 on Wraithsight, can they consolidate when a unit with the USR "Hit and Run" disengage from combat, leaving them the only combatants?

Runes of Witnessing versus Shadow of the Warp, you can suffer a perils of the warp on double 1 or 6?

Skyleap, it was intended with this ruling that Eldar players have a GUARANTEED deep strike drop on turn 5 onto objectives and hope the game ends?

Vibro Cannons can be fired through a close combat? Can this trigger morale checks in any way? If so, how are they resolved?

How does Starfire Engines work for the purposes of Ramming? Does this mean that they can Ram twice a turn (Move 24" in the movement phase and 12" in the shooting phase)? Does this mean they must use their Starfire Engines and move up 36"?

Are Eldar Psykers allowed to use their pshychic abilities while in transports? (I tend to think no.) (The question comes because it doesn't define Eldar psyker abilities as "shooting" anymore.)


IMPERIAL GUARD
Where can Lasguns on a Chimera fire? i.e. what is their fire arc?

Does the template used at range by a Hellhound Inferno cannon have a static orientation (short end pointing at origin, large end away), or are players allowed to rotate in order to cover "as many models as possible"?

Does an IG platoon rol a single die for Reserves or one die for each unit in the platoon. (Codex vs rulebook question)?



NECRONS
When do you actually remove Necron that have failed their WBB rolls?

When you move models that are eligible for a WBB roll, and they move out from under a Tomb Spyder's range which gave them the eligibility in the first place--are they then destroyed immediately?

Where do the models awaiting WBB rolls go if the Necron unit falling back they are 'accompanying', is assaulted and destroyed or falls back off the table?

Can Wraiths Turboboost?

Can I move a Monolith move, a unit not move...and still use the Monolith's ability to teleport the unit? This isn't in the answer given, which seems to cover every other situation but this one.

Can I use cover saves against the Deceiver's attack against my LD?

Can a Monolith teleport a falling back unit forward?

When a Monolith deep strikes, is it considered to be moving at crusing speed even though it can't normally move this fast?

Monolith teleport. The FAQ has got this all confused, I think I understqand who can move after teleporting through the Monolith. But since it seems to be acting as disembarkation from a moving vehicle, can a unit assault after teleportation if either the unit or Monolith moved prior to the teleportation?


ORKS
Can an Ork Trukk (non-Tank) equipped with a Reinforced Ram execute a Ramming Action?

Does a Deff Rolla cause an extra D6 S10 hits when it executes a Ramming action against a vehicle?

When releasing Bomb Squigs while inside a vehicle, when you roll a '1' does the vehicle that the unit releasing the bomb squigs count as the closest? If yes, what vehicle facing should be used to determine the direction of the attack?

If a skimmer is rammed by a battlewagon with a deffrolla and dodges, does it still take d6 s10 hits?

deffrolla causing d6 str hits on vehicles it hits?

if it rams a transport and they disembark can they be clipped by the ram as it passes by? what is the actual tolerance around the vehicle to determine if they are hit?

since units are on the table, would grotsnik in a transport be subject to his rage effects?

does the shock attack result that hurts only the model under the center hole scatter?

If an Ork Wierdboy is in a vehicle and that vehicle moves over 6" what happens during the shooting phase when the wierdboy has to roll for a psychic power and he gets one of the powers that act like a shooting weapon?

If an IC is turned into a squig by Zogworts curse, do you have to kill the squig to get the VPs for the independant character?

"One Scalpel Short of a Medpack" states that Grotsnik will always move as fast as possible towards the nearest enemy, assaulting it if possible. Does this require him (and any unit he is attached to) to run in the shooting phase? If so, can the player choose to shoot if he believes that Grotsnik and his attached unit are already in assault range? Would the player need to measure this to be sure, and then run if not already within 6"?


SPACE MARINES
Can Librarians cast Veil of Time when deep striking? The Chaos FAQ allows Warptime to be cast and it is essentially the same power cast at the same time in the game.

which version of power of the machine spirit is correct? there are different versions depending on which codex you're reading


TAU
Do drones from a Devilfish which was bought as a troops choice count as a scoring troops unit once they have detached from the vehicle to become infantry?

Do models equipped with a target lock which allows them to fire on a separate target from the one targeted by their squad have to take a leadership test to do so? (Current rule calls for a target priority test, which no longer exists in the main book.)

Smart Missile Systems says that a squad hit by the SMS can take cover saves if they are IN cover or are touching cover that lies between them and the SMS firing unit. Do they receive cover saves vs. SMS from screening infantry or cover that they are not in/touching?

Stealth Field Generators state that the unit with the generator counts as being "in cover" for the purposes of assault. As attackers are only slowed to initiative 1 by moving "through" cover as they assault, does the Stealth Field reduce the attackers initiative to 1?

Are Gun drones worth kill points if they were taken as vehicle wargear (devilfish, hammerheads, piranha). If yes then does this still apply if the drones were destroyed at the same time as the vehicle (as the drones have not become a unit yet), or during deployment does a vehicle with gun drones worth 2kp instead of the standard 1?

Do XV-8s that take a markerlight drone get to move and fire the markerlight? The new rulebook gives jet pack units the relentless rule, but the Tau Codex explicitly states XV-8s can never move and fire heavy weapons (p. 27 IIRC I don't have Codex handy). Interestingly, the stealth suit entry doesn't explicitly prohibit the move and fire heavy weapons. As I read it then rulebook's gift of relentless works for them, but not XV-8s.


TYRANIDS
Do Lictors (and other models) using the Secret Deployment special rule have to test for dangerous terrain when they "deep strike" into difficult area terrain?

Can Hormagaunts (and other beasts) get to the second floor of ruins? If not, do flesh hooks change the situation?

Does the hive tyrant (MC) gain a cover save if his three tyrant guards are in area terrain cover?

do spore mines taken as a fast attack choice count for a kill point? if not would it be similiar to an orbital bombardment?

what about spore mines that form a unit because they miss? or spore mines generated from a biomorph?

do lictors make a dangerous terrain roll when they enter play since they have to deep strike into terrain?



WITCH HUNTERS
What psychic powers are actually shooting psychic powers for the Sisters army?

What does the Mancatcher actually do?

Can inducted Imperial Guard in a Sisters army select from the Imperial Guard armory?

Unlike other powers in the Chaos codex, Warptime does not specifically state that a Psychic Test needs to be taken. Does a Psychic Test need to be taken to use the power?

What does thornback (carnifex biomorph) do now that there are no rules for outnumbering?

Do all landraiders (BT/DA/BA/SW/CSM/DH) benefit from the POTMS rule in the DH FAQ?

Do blood angels rhinos/razorbacks have access/firing points?

der Wiskinator wrote:What does thornback (carnifex biomorph) do now that there are no rules for outnumbering?

Would only be fair it gets tossed out the window, just like a Gruesome Talisman did for Dark Eldar in fifth edition. Would have been happier to see an errata: example: it counts as inflicting a wound for combat resolution purposes.

I was told this is the place to post my rules questions/FAQ issues... heres the first batch of 5th Ed questions we came up with.

1. Does the necron Nightmare Shroud require Line-Of-Sight?

2. If someone is forced to fallback during the movement phase and then gets shot at in the next phase do they fall back again. Examples I deep striked a 5 man squad into difficult terrain losing two due to unlucky dice rolls. i suffered greater then 25% casualties then failed my leadership test thus forcing a fallback. in the subsequent round they go shot at and lost 25% again i rolled and failed another leadership fallingback another 2d6. the same scenario also happened with a tank shocking monolith on one of my squads. the wording in the rules seems to indicate a per phase test. since the units were already "falling back" did i have to run them the second time?

3. so you have a multiple combat situation with an ic attached to a an enemy unit and you have two units and an IC engaging that unit and 1 of your units is directly engaged with the ic. the enemy unit is completely wiped out at initive step by the squad directly engaged with the IC. leaving the Allied IC and your second unit disengaged whereas before they were all engaged. do you still get all your attacks with them all flowing to the enemy IC? this was how we ruled it based upon our understanding of the rules but more input would be appreciated.

4. Someone targets a 2nd story unit with a blast weapon... it scatters out of the ruin into open terrain over other units. based upon the wording in the book, the blast template would only effect things on the 2nd story thus leaving all models underneath the blast template unharmed.

5. Does an IG Demo CHarge Deviate 2d6" or 1d6" I had one deviate 12 inches past the full 6" which seems like he should be in some sort of professional sporting event.

6. concerning missions. it states you automatically win if you wipe out your opponet. tyranids without number allows them to always bring them back on the table the following turn. if you wipe out all original units do you still win or do you have to wipe the table completely clean by the end of a game turn?

7. Okay a buddy of mine said today that he believes techpriest with signums only work with techpriests and the servitors themselves. I believe they work with anyone the techpriest is in a unit with. The wording is interesting in my codex it states
"This is a special form of communication device that allows the techpriest enginseer to access a myriad of useful battlefield targeting information, and then pass it to his companions." Now this sentence implies whoever his companions are. It then continues "In game terms it allows you, each turn, to re-roll one missed to hit shooting roll for the techpriest enginseer or his attendant servitors."

8. I have also inquired about the JO listing in the back of the Book. The FAQ states to ignore the "platoon commander" listing which has identical stats to the "Junior Officer listing in the front under HQ listing. I believe the intent was to have the JO with ws bs 4 as the back states but with only 1 wound and leadership 8. Otherwise he is little more then a sgt.

9. In the main rules it mentions that regardless of objectives if you wipe your enemy out you automatically win. What about tyranid "without number" units. since you technically can't kill them as
they will keep respawning, if you kill "all original units" does that constitute a wipe out thus automatic win? kind of a tyranids "phase out" sort of thing to counter balance unending horde armies?

10. Also can tyranids that choose scuttlers and choose to outflank.. that also have without number perform outflank maneuvars when they get wiped out and come on the board a second time?

11. lastly was it intentional to make the licter roll a dangerous terrain test every single time he deploys? these seems exceptionally harsh when that is his only deployment option.

12. Okay one more.. what about the callidus.. since she doesn't deviate if she choose to "appear" in cover does she have to roll a dangerous terrain test?

(this should have been in a different thread)

1. Dunno

2. Thy only time a "broken morale" unit needs to take a morale test is when they are assaulted. I see no reason for them to take a test and fallback again (as they are already falling back)

3. p.35 "to see if models are engaged is done at the beginning of the fight" So since they were engaged at the start of the fight they may still make attacks (against units they were engaged with ofcourse)

4. yes

5. Unless it has specific wording in the IG codex it functions like all other Ordnance/large blast weapons. So i would say yes 2d6-BS

6. You must wipe the table completely clean by the end of the game turn

7. You answered your own question "In game terms it allows you, each turn, to re-roll one missed to hit shooting roll for the TECHPRIEST enginseer OR his attendant SERVITORS."

8. A JO is a 2ond Lt. The FAQ is correct (they have less combat exp than a sgt)

9. Read #6

10. No, because outflank is from reserves while Without number is not treated as reserves, therefor does not benefit form scouts. (though i will post this in another thread to be sure)

11. No since its a 4th ed codex and this wasn't accounted for back then, however in 5th edition since he is entering play via deep strike he must take said dangerous terrain test.

12. She does not enter play via deep strike so RAW she does not take any dangerous terrain tests for entering play. (however if she enters in a minefield or other normal dangerous terrain she must)

Question 2.
Pg 44. Casualties A unit losing 25% or more of its models during a single phase must pass a morale check at the end of that phase, or else it will fall back. (ignoring close combat)
pg 46. Morale while falling back: Troops who are falling back automatically fail all morale checks, except those to regroup.

so two examples have caused this.

1. MOVEMENT PHASE Deepstriking into difficult terrain with 5 man squad rolled 2 1's two people died, failed their morale they start fleeing 2d6. SHOOTING PHASE i then rapid fire plasma guns come up with a 1. (out of 3 guys remaining) i automatically fail it since i am already falling aback and run another 2d6.

You can literally walk people off the board by hitting the 25% mark once they are falling back.

UNLESS you guys see something i am missing this seems to be RAW.

I intend on reviewing all of these closer but i think its significant.

Question 3.

3. so you have a multiple combat situation with an ic attached to a an enemy unit and you have two units and an IC engaging that unit and 1 of your units is directly engaged with the ic. the enemy unit is completely wiped out at initive step by the squad directly engaged with the IC. leaving the Allied IC and your second unit disengaged whereas before they were all engaged. do you still get all your attacks with them all flowing to the enemy IC? this was how we ruled it based upon our understanding of the rules but more input would be appreciated.

3. p.35 "to see if models are engaged is done at the beginning of the fight" So since they were engaged at the start of the fight they may still make attacks (against units they were engaged with ofcourse)

perhaps i was unclear

enemy unit(A) has IC(B)

Allied unit (1) has no IC and allied unit (2) has an ic (3)

Units 1,2 and 3 assault units A and B

Unit 1 is engaged with both A and B and units 2 and 3 are only engaged with A.

if unit 1 goes @ high init wipes out unit A
Units 2 and 3 were engaged but now are not since the unit they were engaged with is wiped out.
Since unit B is its own unit(IC) i believe all the previously "engaged models" (units 2 and 3) simply lose their attacks... OR do they still get to attack?

odinsspear45 wrote:
Question 2.
Pg 44. Casualties A unit losing 25% or more of its models during a single phase must pass a morale check at the end of that phase, or else it will fall back. (ignoring close combat)
pg 46. Morale while falling back: Troops who are falling back automatically fail all morale checks, except those to regroup.

so two examples have caused this.

1. MOVEMENT PHASE Deepstriking into difficult terrain with 5 man squad rolled 2 1's two people died, failed their morale they start fleeing 2d6. SHOOTING PHASE i then rapid fire plasma guns come up with a 1. (out of 3 guys remaining) i automatically fail it since i am already falling aback and run another 2d6.

You can literally walk people off the board by hitting the 25% mark once they are falling back.

UNLESS you guys see something i am missing this seems to be RAW.

I intend on reviewing all of these closer but i think its significant.

In light of that, I'd say you could very well cause multiple fall backs, RAW.

odinsspear45 wrote:Question 3.

3. so you have a multiple combat situation with an ic attached to a an enemy unit and you have two units and an IC engaging that unit and 1 of your units is directly engaged with the ic. the enemy unit is completely wiped out at initive step by the squad directly engaged with the IC. leaving the Allied IC and your second unit disengaged whereas before they were all engaged. do you still get all your attacks with them all flowing to the enemy IC? this was how we ruled it based upon our understanding of the rules but more input would be appreciated.

3. p.35 "to see if models are engaged is done at the beginning of the fight" So since they were engaged at the start of the fight they may still make attacks (against units they were engaged with ofcourse)

perhaps i was unclear

enemy unit(A) has IC(B)

Allied unit (1) has no IC and allied unit (2) has an ic (3)

Units 1,2 and 3 assault units A and B

Unit 1 is engaged with both A and B and units 2 and 3 are only engaged with A.

if unit 1 goes @ high init wipes out unit A
Units 2 and 3 were engaged but now are not since the unit they were engaged with is wiped out.
Since unit B is its own unit(IC) i believe all the previously "engaged models" (units 2 and 3) simply lose their attacks... OR do they still get to attack?

Ok... 2/3 may not attack as they were not engaged with B.

I feel it is questions like this, but more so the answers that is killing this hobby. The games are supposed to be fun. But it seems like all 4th edition was was arguing about the rules. I thought 5th edition was going to clear some if not most of that up. It was hyped up that 5th edition was going to go back to friendly games and being nice to your opponent. Like the whole cover save item. If you disagree, you just lose 1 off the cover save, not the whole thing. The rule book talks about being generous to the people you play with, not winning by being a "rules lawyer". In my group, we play with a thing called common sense and logical conclusions. But we still have one or two people who take the rules WAY TOO SERIOUS. As a result they don't get to play much because people don't like dealing with them. They look at the rule book as if it was the Bible, and the FAQ's as canon. That is why I think your posted FAQ's are worthless. Yes I said it but before I get banned for having an opinion that goes against the "board" hear me out. If GW is going to allow us or more to the point you to have some input in the game, make it for the better. Balance things out a little. Make it so that people will play the game not just for the love of the game, but because it is fun to play against someone. Make the game a way for people to share and spend time together lost in a different world. Limit the power gamers on how much power they have. I have been playing this game for what sometimes feels like too long. I have seen the game change during my time. I have sent suggestions to GW. But now, right now it seems like the players are getting a voice. Don't make it a whisper, make it a ROAR!

The Sarge:

it is not an unreasonable request of the playing community to expect a set of clear and concise rules

this comes from a former magic player. when the cards were worded badly a group of veteran players turned DCI judges would weigh in and come up with errata that was RAI based on RAW.

yakface has lead the charge in getting the rules worked out since games workshop would rather see us all roll a 4+ every time the rule comes up.

I hope to see your faq on 5th ed soon yakface!

NaZ

Naz,
I would like a concise set of rules also. Sometimes I feel the rule book is better used to hit someone upside their head then to look up a rule. Now in a game like this I know you can't cover every situation that can and will come up. What I am getting at is that if something is broke, fix the rule in a manner that is in keeping with a fun attitude and not a crush your opponent attitude. In the example above they talk about make a Ld test for taking wounds, then having to fall back again and again. Well to me that was an oversight when the rules were made up. Someone found it and now can try to exploit it to win the game. This is one of my points, why have the attitude of "win at all cost"? make the FAQ's limit what people can exploit. Don't give them the power. Fix it and move on to the next thiong that comes up. Sure it is a WAR-game but it is still a GAME. Everyone goes home at the end of the night.

Now, I applaud the initiative to put together and submit these FAQ's. I just feel they were wrong, in a lot of "rules" ways. Now that they have been posted on the GW site, people will look at them as "official". Have you read them yet? They should come with a heading that if you don't play one of the popular armies (SM, Tau) you are going to get bent over. Any rule that could hurt or hinder the special armies is FAQ'ed away. While anything in other army codex that could hurt them is changed. Why is that? Why after 10 years have wych weapons changed? Why do eldar get units that can affect play but never have to show up on the board? (swooping hawks with sky leap). Why do the tau have a vehicle and suit upgrades that allow them to increase their BS, split fire, and count as obscured all the time (and for only 5 points) yet none of that was addressed.

FAQ's should balance armies until new codexes come out (unless you're Dark Eldar). But so far I have not seen that. All I have seen is the beginner armies tightened up and the skilled/tactic armies put down once again.

If you want to make FAQ's that everyone will love, you either have to have someone who loves an army write the FAQ for it. Or, have someone who hates the army write the FAQ for it. But it has to be the same across the board. By looking at what was posted on GW, that was not the case.

Sarge, I feel your pain.

Yak isn't the only one leading the charge, believe me.

Don't worry about what other people post here as "answers".

They are worth precisely

Post your questions, they will get to GW in one form or another.

Sarge, please see my post here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/215932.page and respond, I would like to avoid going too far OT in this thread.

Eldar: Do Swooping Hawks who get placed back into reserve for landing in terrain, etc. still get to drop their grenades?

Imperial Guard Skills and Drills:
How does the Doctrine Die Hards work in 5th. Edition?

Deepstriking units.. do the models making a circle around the first model have to be in base to base with each other.. ie can you make a line or an x (like to better utilize flame template or avoid difficult terrain.

PG. 95 The sentence reads "models must be placed in base contact with the original model in a circle around it."

The concerns is for low model counts in which you can not complete the first circle.

_____(X)(X)
____(X)(X)(X)
_____(X)(X)

That is a full circle

I believe as an example if you had only three models it would need to look like this

___(X)(X)
____(X)

I believe as an example if you had only four models it would need to look like this

___(X)(X)
____(X)(X)

Instead of three models like this

____(X)(X)(X)

or four models like this

_______(X)
_____(X)(X)(X)
_______(X)


IF it read:

PG. 95 The sentence reads "models must be placed in base contact with the original model."

I dont think this would be relevant

but it says

PG. 95 The sentence reads "models must be placed in base contact with the original model in a circle around it."

which i believe means you are trying to complete a circle not simply meet a base to base with original model requirement.

Thoughts?

Can units that have a rule that says they never count as scoring units contest objectives? For example, Zoanthropes can never hold objectives, but can they contest them?

Need to update this...

Eldar Psykers allowed to use their pshychic abilities while in transports? (I tend to think no.) (The question comes because it doesn't define Eldar psyker abilities as "shooting" anymore.)

As another thread pretty much comes to the conclusion that yes you can use psyker powers from a transport (wave serpent) as long as they are not a shooting ability (Guide, Fortune, Doom).

Skyleap, it was intended with this ruling that Eldar players have a GUARANTEED deep strike drop on turn 5 onto objectives and hope the game ends?

I just played a game trying to use this tactic and frankly while I think it is a valid (non-cheese) tactic it's not easy to do and costly!

It's expensive Swooping Hawk squad needs to have an Exarch and said exarch needs to take the Sky Leap ability (15 points).

This puts the whole squad at 153 points (aka not cheap).

You can get it down to 132 points if you drop the squad size down to 5 (including Exarch).

During turn 4 in the movement phase they need to leave the board, so no shooting or assaulting, nothing that turn.

5th Turn, they automatically come in, but still have to roll for deep strike location...

So if they don't land on target, they can be destroyed (1-2), placed anywhere on the board (3-4) or sent back to reserve (5-6).

Landing in difficult terrain is treated as dangerous.

To actually contest they'll have to land very very close as they only get 1D6" for a single run roll.

More units you have around, more likely a mishap will occur.

Can't assault the turn they land, even if they have fleet (which they do).

Low chance the game will end on turn 5.

So while they *can* jump up turn 4 and come back down to contest turn 5, if your opponent has troops on the location it's actually pretty hard to land close enough to actually contest the point.

Mezmaron wrote:
Eldar: Do Swooping Hawks who get placed back into reserve for landing in terrain, etc. still get to drop their grenades?

I've always done the grenades first (as they drop them when coming down) and then do the deep strike for the hawks, seeing how it says you get to use them every time they deep strike and it does not mention needing to be successful, I personally think they should still get to drop there grenades...

But... it could be nice to have a FAQ expressly saying so.

Jara, When you tried using the swooping hawks, did you sky leap every turn? Basically dropping a large blast every turn that you deep strike, then pick your unit back up (or your marker, they guy I play with never even puts his models out)?

Here is my question, it is an oldie but a goodie. The warp portal for dark eldar, I have always argued that you can move in the movement phase, then you placed it in the shooting phase (just like stated in the codex) instead of moving or shooting. My argument was that only models that could "fleet" back then could take the portal, hence they always had the option to move or shoot in the shooting phase. Now with the new run rule, it is possible to either move or shoot in the shooting phase. So do the new rules validate my point? If not please explain why. It counts as one action during the shooting phase.

Note: the one action thing is an implied guideline we (my group) have come to understand. It means most units can perform one action in each phase. Units the shoot can not run, units that enter the game from tunnels can not move, units that deep strike can not move (unless your swooping hawks).

The Sarge wrote:Jara, When you tried using the swooping hawks, did you sky leap every turn? Basically dropping a large blast every turn that you deep strike, then pick your unit back up (or your marker, they guy I play with never even puts his models out)?

You still need to place models, particularly if the squad is landing close to anything that may get in the way.

So do the new rules validate my point?

No. The Webway Portal rules state that the portal is placed instead of Moving or Shooting that turn, not that phase.

The Sarge wrote:Jara, When you tried using the swooping hawks, did you sky leap every turn? Basically dropping a large blast every turn that you deep strike, then pick your unit back up (or your marker, they guy I play with never even puts his models out)?

You still have to pick a location and roll scatter (and hope that you don't have a deep strike mishap or land in difficult terrain (which will become dangerous). This last game, I did nothing but DS and drop grenades each turn. I think they ended up killing off a squad of Vespid doing so and while that at least earned them some some points/value, I don't think it made up for there cost. I think it would have been better to drop them down and shoot a few turns and then jump back up late game.

Of course my problem, the hawks are fragile and I really wanted to try contesting with them... so I was playing very conservative with them that game. But really due to basically needing to DS on target 1/3 chance? On top of that needing a high D6 roll for run...

I think the Hawks are better off jumping up Turn 3, Turn 4 come down and get closer to the control point and Turn 5 make your contest move (12" jump + D6 Run if you need it, combined with 6" Assault if you really really need). I think overall that will have more consistent use. Granted it does give your opponent a chance to shoot at them and do any number of bad things to the poor little hawks.

-Jara

PS: Also, it might make a difference that my gaming group almost always places the control points inside or around ruins/terrain. This takes away the advantage that troop transports have if the locations are out in the open... as many of our early games would be decided by a tank shock (and it just seemed too easy to push a bunch of troops off a scoring location).

Question: When coming in from off the board, if a model is slow and purposeful, but also has a base that is over an inch wide, what happens if a double 1 is rolled?

This could happen to an Oblid coming in on the first turn of Dawn of War or simply from reserves.

Question: Does a Wreckin' Ball count as an assault and hit rear armor on a vehicle?

Question: Can an Ork vehicle with both a Boarding plank and Wreckin' Ball attack two separate units?

Insaniak,
You are right about it saying turn in the codex. But did you read the whole thing. It goes (paraphrasing) "the model places the portal in the shooting PHASE, instead of moving or shooting that TURN". Now correct me if I am wrong (which I am not) but it says nothing about giving up your movement in the movement PHASE. So by the correct interpretation for 5th edition, a model should be able to move or deepstrike in the movement PHASE. Then give up their shooting or running in the shooting PHASE of that TURN. How is this wrong?

We can not go by older edition rules or old FAQ's. With the 5th edition rules, everything changes again. Hopefully when the new codex comes out it will address this issue once and for all.

The Sarge wrote:Insaniak,
You are right about it saying turn in the codex. But did you read the whole thing. It goes (paraphrasing) "the model places the portal in the shooting PHASE, instead of moving or shooting that TURN". Now correct me if I am wrong (which I am not) but it says nothing about giving up your movement in the movement PHASE. So by the correct interpretation for 5th edition, a model should be able to move or deepstrike in the movement PHASE. Then give up their shooting or running in the shooting PHASE of that TURN. How is this wrong?

We can not go by older edition rules or old FAQ's. With the 5th edition rules, everything changes again. Hopefully when the new codex comes out it will address this issue once and for all.

Think of it has a heavy weapon... Can you fire a heavy weapon that turn if you moved in the movement phase (with standard infantry)? It does clearly say "INSTEAD OF MOVING or shooting that turn" What part of that is unclear? Its done in the shooting phase so you cannot move in reserves the same turn you place it. Play it however you want but this is one of the most beardy (rule bending) interpretations of rules i have heard in a long LONG time.