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i was just wondering after seeing a recent modeling thread brought back to life and the person who did it got slammed.
i can see the reasoning in a debated topic but why modeling? i've seen a lot of nice projects and blogs through someone bringing an old thread back to life.

Its just a matter of activity.

If there is nothing new or pertinent to add to a discussion and it dies down, its stays there until there is something new and pertinent to add to the discussion.

Posting in an old thread just to say "Wow! That looks great" while a great compliment and a positive post, really doesn't add anything pertinent or new to the discussion.

yeah,
this is something I don't fully understand either;
you get slammed for rehashing a old topic in a new thread "why don't you do a search we've done this to death!!"
you get slammed for doing a search and adding your support/insight to the old thread...

Dammed if you do damned if you don't!

I think some of the MODs have kneejerk reaction to call threadromancy without thinking about it and locking the thread out!
If that's their attatude they should lock all threads 1 month old!

I'm not totally stupid though I understand it's to do with the ammount of info the new post contributes. Posting on a old modeling thread just to say "nice models" will irk people who've read that thread before and think it's a waste of time...

Panic...

Thread necromancy is bad in some circumstances and it is fine in others.

Bringing up a year-old thread discussing rumors for an upcoming codex that has long since been released just to add a random quip about what you think of the codex is frankly unacceptable.

On the other hand, dragging up a year-old fluff thread to add some information you found in an hard to find WD article, for example, would be fine.


So the two things to consider are:

1) How topical the conversation in the thread is. The more topical it is, the less appropriate it is to drag the thread up.

2) Do you have something of vital importance to add to the thread? If you honestly do, besides just an opinion or comment, then it is more appropriate to drag the thread up.


The reason other members tell people to use the search function isn't because they want you to go ressurect an old thread, but rather you can go read the old thread and find the answer to your question. There is a lot of information that can be found on any forum through reading old threads as opposed to creating a new one that covers the same topic.


So in short, if a thread is more than a few weeks old you probably shouldn't be dragging it up if it is in the News&Rumors, Dakka Discussions, YMTC, etc.

Forums like modeling, fluff and tactics (to a lesser degree) are a bit more lenient to this kind of thing, but only if you have something substantial to add to the thread (i.e. you read every post in the thread and have found that a vital piece of information was never included in the thread that you think needs to be added).

Threadomancy, like all banned or restricted postings, is prohibited because all postings have a cost and a benefit, and those that run negative tend to be prohibited.

Every post has a cost. In the old days of Usenet, this cost would often be literal; with long downloads and bandwidth by the minute it could add up. Today, the cost is more intangible: the time it takes to read a post, the disruption a post can cause, increased noise in the forum, a dilution of "quality" posts, etc.

Keep in mind that most points have a value to the forum as well. Posts with actual content are what drive a forum, while quality critiques, rational discussion, and commentary keep it humming along. Even jokes, asides, headnodding, etc. at least give the forum breadth, if not depth.

So, what does this mean? Well, posts that have low value and a high cost tend to be sanctioned. Racist stuff, flamebaiting, etc. are all highly disruptive while adding very little value.

Threadomancy is harder to understand, but once looked at, it's pretty simple. After a few weeks, any genuinely new content would probably benefit from a new thread. A solid new critique could justify a certain amount of threadomancy, but a post that references hundreds of previous posts is less useful than a new post that sums up and links to the previous conversation. A simple comment or questions has a very low utility, as it's unlikely that the OP would still be waiting for further comments.

Looked at in this view, the question is less "why is it bad," because it's really never that bad. The problem is that there is very little good that comes of it.

As for the ferocity of the responses, that's got two reasons:
1) History. As I stated above, back in the day it was far, far more annoying, and old habits die hard.
2) Prevention: By making it clear that it's not allowed, the goal is to signal to others not to do it.

I'll respond to this post one year from now.

malfred wrote:I'll respond to this post one year from now.

Ya beat me to it.


It is bad for the same reasons regular necromancy is bad.

Because most people are too stupid to check the posting date and waste their time reading threads they've already read months ago.

I think if there is any forum where Threadromancy should be allowed is modeling.. If someone resurrects a year old post just to say "nice models" and someone else saw those models a year ago and is mad that he has to see them again, it should be tough poopy. How do you know someone else isn't looking at that year old post and is inspired to create something like it or really learns a new and awesome technique that he probably would have never seen if the thread wasn't bumped to the top?

yeah,
I agree, but with a over acceptance of threadromancy you could then have a really high turn over of threads in the modelling forum with the last posts saying "nice models", "nice models", "nice models", "nice models", "nice models", "nice models" and a newly posted thread gets buried very quickly and then people who turn up later in the day miss it.

a good balance should be had, if a person feels a person should recieve credit a year later I think it should be tolerated, but not to the extent that people dig for threads to comment on!!!

PAnic...

Necros wrote:I think if there is any forum where Threadromancy should be allowed is modeling.. If someone resurrects a year old post just to say "nice models" and someone else saw those models a year ago and is mad that he has to see them again, it should be tough poopy. How do you know someone else isn't looking at that year old post and is inspired to create something like it or really learns a new and awesome technique that he probably would have never seen if the thread wasn't bumped to the top?

Here's my beef about this. When I see jamesessionein's "Stompa Gargant W.I.P." thread pop up to the top of the P&M Blog forum after nearly 5 months of inactivity on the thread, it gets me excited to read about what progress he's made. When all it is is somebody saying "Kewl dood!" it gets me pretty annoyed that I wasted my time.

I mean, if you're inspired by a year old post and want to create something like it, then start a new thread and reference the old one with a link or link to the images in the old thread! It's not that hard to do.

I recently had one of my old P&M blog threads that I had abandoned reopened by someone that wanted to know how I did something. I'm honored that someone liked what I did enough to post and say something about it, but it feels a little awkward, particularly when the poster could have just pm'ed me with the question.

usernamesareannoying wrote:i was just wondering after seeing a recent modeling thread brought back to life and the person who did it got slammed.
i can see the reasoning in a debated topic but why modeling? i've seen a lot of nice projects and blogs through someone bringing an old thread back to life.

Think of it as eating with your mouth open at the dinner table, or talking loud in public on your cell phone.

Back in the day they called it manners.

In the new and improved age of the computer and internets, it goes along the same line of thinking. No one wants to rehash old arguments, or open old wounds, or go over the same arguments after the fact. We have other clever things to do aside from dig up the dead.

I only look in the recent threads section, so if I don't find a thread I've previously posted on I let it go. There's nothing worse than a thread where the same three or four jerks keep quoting each other at length, laboriously picking at each other's arguments and saying the same thing in slightly different ways over and over again until the thread is 20 pages long. That's why I left Warseer. Live fast, die young and leave a good looking blip.

I dunno. I think it may be kind of a old school/new school thing. Certain people have been doing the internet forum thing since Christ was a corporal, and they have as a community at large developed an etiquette about how you go about doing things. It's not perfect, but you find very few differences in it as you go to forums across a range of topics. The basics remain mostly the same. Some people have jumped onto this resource more recently, and they haven't seen the growing pains that led to the developed etiquette (I refuse to put an n in front of that) they are being forced into. Forced if they want ot participate in that community, anyway.

Internet forum etiquette can be a pain, and it can certianly seem ill-advised, and it can seem just dumb. But a lot of times, there's a reason for that rule you're hatin at the time.

Some people just have nothing better to do than try and tell people what they should or shouldn't be doing on the internet.

I agree that there is pretty much no reason to drag up a 'rumor' thread after a certain amount of time (certainly not after the rumors have been (dis)proven) but for saying 'hey, you painted some really cool figs or whatever' who cares?

The guy posting the original thread wins because someone else admired his work and it gets bubbled to the top again so maybe some other people can see it.

The thread in question was one of my old modelling threads.

2 years old.

Why someone is trawling the depths of the back catalogue that far back is beyond me but if you desperately need to contact the author on a tip/method in modelling painting in a thread older than a few months specifically then use the PM feature . That way you can be sure they get the message without having to resurect an old post.

Fortuitously I happened to look in the painting forum and saw my name at the top, knowing I hadn't started a thread in ages I checked it out. However the last few weeks I had gone to modelling and painting once a week due to work (now I'm doing paediatric neurosurgery and its all paperwork so have hours of dakkatime per day ) So if it had been raised week ago I would have missed it completely, thus the point of ressurecting it would have been lost.

Also if a few people start doing it suddenly we get inundated with dead threads.

I remember my first posts ages ago on dakka were necros. Since then I've learned that a discussion is gone because people lost interest in it. If you have an important question you might want to send the thread starter a PM, if you have nothing great to add don't because the people it would be directed at aren't reading it any more. If it seems important enough, start a fresh thread with something new or interesting about the topic.

malfred wrote:I'll respond to this post one year from now.

I'm holding you to that.

Panic wrote:
I agree, but with a over acceptance of threadromancy you could then have a really high turn over of threads in the modelling forum with the last posts saying "nice models", "nice models", "nice models", "nice models", "nice models", "nice models" and a newly posted thread gets buried very quickly and then people who turn up later in the day miss it.

And thus the reason you see more locks in the M&P. However, locks are only temporary to get a long dead thread off the front page, and should the author want their thread reopened it's just a matter of a quick PM and it's reopened!

Some good things have come from this discussion though:

1. Stop Poking Dead Threads with a Stick. Look at the dates folks, especially if you're past Page 3.
2. If you MUST find out how something was done for a project of your own, PM the OP or Start a new thread with a link to the original thread.
3. And finally, the only person who who can successfully Necro without consequence IS THE OP!

Much of this is M&P Related I know ^_-. But where else do you see me..?

Exactly. Case in point (and shameless plug ) is a thread I started which hadn't been updated in a year.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/188373.page

I updated it because I had something new and relevant to add, and not just because I was the OP.

You still hangin' around? I already want to put this thread six feet under.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:now I'm doing paediatric neurosurgery

I like how you say it like it is the most common thing in the world.

"Honey, I'm going out to get some milk and study pediatric neurosurgery, be back in an hour."

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:

2 years old.

Why someone is trawling the depths of the back catalogue that far back is beyond me but if you desperately need to contact the author on a tip/method in modelling painting in a thread older than a few months specifically then use the PM feature . That way you can be sure they get the message without having to resurect an old post.

Because modeling and painting info and inspiration do not expire. Even very old modeling threads hold their informative value. You could come back to a modeling thread in a hundred years and find pertinent information on modeling that could inspire and be helpful to improving technique.

ChaosDave wrote:

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:

2 years old.

Why someone is trawling the depths of the back catalogue that far back is beyond me but if you desperately need to contact the author on a tip/method in modelling painting in a thread older than a few months specifically then use the PM feature . That way you can be sure they get the message without having to resurect an old post.

Because modeling and painting info and inspiration do not expire. Even very old modeling threads hold their informative value. You could come back to a modeling thread in a hundred years and find pertinent information on modeling that could inspire and be helpful to improving technique.

And what does that have to do with threadnomancy?

People do what you describe all the time. They use the search function for a thing they are interested in, draw inspiration from it, and go on with their lives.
Though some feel the need to post "sweet model, dood!" thus interrupting the flow of recent posts so that they can give their unsolicited opinion to a long dead thread.

As was said earlier in the read. Its about etiquette. Or Netiquette if you prefer.

It's just an annoyance really, it's about consideration for other board users. The amount of times I've seen an old thread back, thought 'Ace, there's more stuff in that cool thread I read ages ago......Oh no, it's someone complimenting it.' It's just irritating. PMs for the win.

but dont you guys think there is any value add in it since it gives people a chance to see stuff that they may have missed?
i've seen a lot of cool modeling and painting projects through old posts that someone brought back to life.

usernamesareannoying wrote:but dont you guys think there is any value add in it since it gives people a chance to see stuff that they may have missed?
i've seen a lot of cool modeling and painting projects through old posts that someone brought back to life.

Frankly...No. Because we've all seen it, and stop posted on it. If you want to search and see it again, you can. If all you have to say is "THAT'S COOL DUUUDE", then send a PM. It's just good etiquette. If something hasn't been discussed in quite a while, it's fair game for a new thread.

whitedragon wrote:

usernamesareannoying wrote:but dont you guys think there is any value add in it since it gives people a chance to see stuff that they may have missed?
i've seen a lot of cool modeling and painting projects through old posts that someone brought back to life.

Frankly...No. Because we've all seen it, and stop posted on it. If you want to search and see it again, you can. If all you have to say is "THAT'S COOL DUUUDE", then send a PM. It's just good etiquette. If something hasn't been discussed in quite a while, it's fair game for a new thread.

that wasnt what i was saying. havent you ever seen a thread brought back to life that you missed and said, thats cool and been thankful someone brought it back up?
i know i have so i was questioning whether it should be frowned upon because of that.
that's all i'm trying to say.

i see everyone's point but when it comes to the modeling section i guess i'm in the minority opinion of it not being all that bad on this one.

modeling necros will be locked and the person doing it in excess after being told not to multiple times will probably catch a suspension of a few days. This way he can get his fill of all of the great stuff the modeling forums have brought us over the years, while leaving the first page to what it's meant for, Current Modeling Projects ^_^!

Perhaps all threads should routinely be locked after 1 month. Anyone interested in posting to an dead thread can ask a mod to resurrect it.