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Since it's now "out" for people to look at, I figured it would be safe to post my planned Space Marine army.

No points values are included, sorry.

1xMaster of the Forge, Conversion Beamer.
1xLibrarian, Null Zone, Gate of Infinity.
5x10 Tactical Marines. Flamer, Multimelta.
5xIronclad Dreadnoughts.

That's a standard 1750 tournament sized list.

Yes I know the Master on a Bike is amusing and so is the Thunderfire but meh not my cup o'tea.

Ironclads unupgraded? They're one of the stand out units in my couple of perusals of the new codex, but I was mostly looking at them with heavy flamers in pods.

I suppose 5 of them running is going to be hard to stop, though.

All those new toys in the SM codex and this is what you come up with, 5 foot squads and some dreadnaughts? This is Vanilla Marines without even Vanilla! Gack!!!

Now where do I glue the extra armor on my dreadnaughts.....???

mikeguth

I think that it has some potential, The 5 dreds should draw a bit of High S Low AP fire, which will enable the marines to move around in the open if need be.

5o Marines are pretty hard to kill as well.

More importantly, I'd be really worried about facing shooty Ork with this list. I"m planning on starting with 45 Lottas. ON a bad day, that will be 135 strength 7 shots, say 40 hit, 30+ wound, 10 dead marines a turn??? Don't like it. And, Daemons may be too random for GT play, but that won't stop you from having to face them. Don't like Marines in CC against Daemon troops. Then there is the issue of 40 Plague Marines against the 50 oridnary Marines, while 6 Oblits matchup against the Dreads.... Perhaps that will work since running dreads could beat the Oblits and Dread plus CC squad might defeat the PMs.

mike

Or perhaps he is confident enough in his abilties to take a list that appeals, rather than an 'Interwebs Approved' power list?

When it comes writing a list, you can either allow yourself to get paranoid about things you *might* come up against, and wind up with an army not to your tastes, but ought to do well, or you can just write a list you will enjoy using, and take the results on the chin.

It would be even better with Vulkan taking the place of the librarian, making all your flamers, meltas and thunder hammers awesome.

Sorry - I missed the bit about how you can take 5 Dreads? Is that a Master of the Forge thing?

Actually against Shooty Orks in objective missions...you split into combat squads.

I will most likely lose the majority of guys in each combat squad that gets shot at by lootas. I won't mind so long as I can get the Ironclads into combat with the Orks and bounce the marines in and out while the Ironclads hold them up.

I don't know about you, but there aren't many answers for 45-135 autocannon shots coming across the board.

Oh right, Flamestorm Cannon spamming Land Raiders are Orks rock to their scissor. lol

whitedragon wrote:It would be even better with Vulkan taking the place of the librarian, making all your flamers, meltas and thunder hammers awesome.

Don't have thunder hammers and I'm not running Vulkan because everyone else will be.

The Master with Conversion Beamer gives me something to sit in back and shoot at heavy duty tanks with my squad in the back (which otherwise won't be doing anything).

The Librarian gives me anti-demon and a deep strike threat to your objective in the back, forcing you to keep a squad on it.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Sorry - I missed the bit about how you can take 5 Dreads? Is that a Master of the Forge thing?

Yes. Forgemasters let you take them as heavy as well as elites.

Stelek wrote:

whitedragon wrote:It would be even better with Vulkan taking the place of the librarian, making all your flamers, meltas and thunder hammers awesome.

Don't have thunder hammers and I'm not running Vulkan because everyone else will be.

The Master with Conversion Beamer gives me something to sit in back and shoot at heavy duty tanks with my squad in the back (which otherwise won't be doing anything).

The Librarian gives me anti-demon and a deep strike threat to your objective in the back, forcing you to keep a squad on it.

Vulkan also loses your Combat Tactics, so you wouldn't be able to bounce in and out of CC with orks, which I think you will be hard pressed to "bounce" too many times with combat squads. The Ironclads can take alot of flamers, and your tac squads can split into flamer and multi-melta.

For demons, you can always grab the mystic inq, but you're right, the Librarian is super good against demons. Of course, you could take Vulkan and a libby, and then have only 3 Iron Clads, and add in some dev squads with multi-meltas for extra punch.

thats around 1,750 points? 0_o
needs a little more variety in it though.
just seems like someone with a love for dreads, and needs to make up numbers with tac squad spam

Oh it's not that difficult to bounce if you have multiple squads sitting there ready to do it, it diffuses the damage Orks can do. It's not like it's hard to setup CC in your favor and Orks that are stuck in CC are Orks that suck in CC.

I like 5 Ironclads better than 3 Ironclads. They are a huge threat you really can't ignore.

I think it's an excellent list by dint of being so plain jane.

JD21290 wrote:thats around 1,750 points? 0_o

It's 1745 if you gotta know.

JD21290 wrote:needs a little more variety in it though.

Why? I don't need another Demonhunters list, and marines don't have variety anyway.

Unless you consider scouts, termies, and power armor marines to be 'different'.

Woo save +/- 1 for "variety". For those watching, that's an epic fail.

JD21290 wrote:just seems like someone with a love for dreads, and needs to make up numbers with tac squad spam

You are correct on the first count. On the second, since tactical squads are the best thing the marines have got now...why not? You'll note the dreads support the tacticals very well, and vice versa.

I think this list would be fun to play but I want to bring in different units for my list when I make it. I only have two dreads now anyway.

Stelek, why multi-meltas? Keep in mind I don't have the new codex to see if there is anything special about them.

stelek, stop acting like a [removed by JD], i know you love to, but lets face it, its getting old.

you posted it, you will get comments, part of making a thread.
so what wrong with making an army withsome style rather than a bland lump of plastic?

and while you mention epic fail, i think breaking someones FW avatar comes into that catagory aswell

spacemarinejunkie wrote:I think this list would be fun to play but I want to bring in different units for my list when I make it. I only have two dreads now anyway.

Stelek, why multi-meltas? Keep in mind I don't have the new codex to see if there is anything special about them.

They are free.

They provide a bigger 'don't come here' zone than meltaguns do.

They kill tanks.

Having 5 multimeltas and 5 meltaguns seems like a good combo.

Modquisition on. Lets maintain politeness people. This is an Army Lists thread, hence involves the efficacy of units and lists, irrespective of fluff or other factors.

Modquisition off.

Apologies, I am actually a friend of Stelek's and I hope he knows my reply was tongue in cheek. Shoot, I built enough Chaos troops to do 3 of his Chaos army suggestions (Thousand Sons variant didn't work-but against 50 marines I might be glad I have them.....). I actually found it a very interesting editorial comment when a very talented army designer reviews a 'new codex' and comes out with such a straightforward list.

Immensely bummed that I am going to have to paint 4 more melta guns and 4 more flamers to field the foot component to this army after finally finishing 6 lascannons and 6 plasma guns just last year. But, glad to know I may be able to compete without painting 40 more Scouts or 30 Sternguard or 30 more Terminators.

What's on the Ironclads, is it Multimelta, flamer and CCW?

Thought about the combat squad issue myself after I replied. Could be very good at local friendly game store when objectives are actually placed by players rather than by game organizers. Last turn of games will be very annoying when suddenly space marine squad target splits up and charges into Close Combat with units that were about to contest objectives.

It dawns on me that I don't know the ally rules very well, left me wondering whether you could save some points by taking some Sisters instead of Marines as allies. Maybe not enough to matter though.

This is the first explanation I've seen, or hint, at how 'Combat Tactics' may be a useful power.

JD-I'm sorry, I didn't learn anything about lists or tactics from your comment.When I was little, I learned that if someone accidently broke something in my house and said they were sorry then the issue was dropped. Otherwise, I call it nagging.

spacemarinejunkie wrote:Stelek, why multi-meltas? Keep in mind I don't have the new codex to see if there is anything special about them.

Melta weapons are now the only thing that marines have that reliably kill tanks.

Ok, the couple S10 weapons are good too, but other than that meltas are it. And the additional threat range of the multimelta is where it's at.

stjohn70 wrote:

spacemarinejunkie wrote:Stelek, why multi-meltas? Keep in mind I don't have the new codex to see if there is anything special about them.

Melta weapons are now the only thing that marines have that reliably kill tanks.

Ok, the couple S10 weapons are good too, but other than that meltas are it. And the additional threat range of the multimelta is where it's at.

Shhh what the do you know?

And I just bought 3 LRC's and two Terminator Assault Squads to do your BT list. Ah, BLEEP.....

Mike

mikeguth wrote:Apologies, I am actually a friend of Stelek's and I hope he knows my reply was tongue in cheek. Shoot, I built enough Chaos troops to do 3 of his Chaos army suggestions (Thousand Sons variant didn't work-but against 50 marines I might be glad I have them.....). I actually found it a very interesting editorial comment when a very talented army designer reviews a 'new codex' and comes out with such a straightforward list.

Mike, I don't think anyone was offended by what you said (and I don't think you were being talked to). I know I wasn't lol.

Thanks for the compliments. I hope to do more, with stjohn70's help (and a few other friends as well).

mikeguth wrote:Immensely bummed that I am going to have to paint 4 more melta guns and 4 more flamers to field the foot component to this army after finally finishing 6 lascannons and 6 plasma guns just last year. But, glad to know I may be able to compete without painting 40 more Scouts or 30 Sternguard or 30 more Terminators.

Meltaguns and flamers are good stuff in 5th.

mikeguth wrote:What's on the Ironclads, is it Multimelta, flamer and CCW?

Meltagun, siesmic hammer, and a dreadnought CCW w/SB I believe.

mikeguth wrote:Thought about the combat squad issue myself after I replied. Could be very good at local friendly game store when objectives are actually placed by players rather than by game organizers. Last turn of games will be very annoying when suddenly space marine squad target splits up and charges into Close Combat with units that were about to contest objectives.

Actually all objectives were placed by players at the LVGT.

You can't split up during the game...but man that'd be AWESOME if you could. lol

Gotta do it during deployment.

mikeguth wrote:It dawns on me that I don't know the ally rules very well, left me wondering whether you could save some points by taking some Sisters instead of Marines as allies. Maybe not enough to matter though.

You could, but I don't want people thinking I'm min/maxing the list more than I already am.

mikeguth wrote:This is the first explanation I've seen, or hint, at how 'Combat Tactics' may be a useful power.

Oh my, combat tactics is very nice.

Much improved from the first playtest version anyway lol.

The marneus calgar version is...holy horse crap.

mikeguth wrote:JD-I'm sorry, I didn't learn anything about lists or tactics from your comment. When I was little, I learned that if someone accidently broke something in my house and said they were sorry then the issue was dropped. Otherwise, I call it nagging.

Just let it go.

mikeguth wrote:And I just bought 3 LRC's and two Terminator Assault Squads to do your BT list. Ah, BLEEP.....

Well it's not like I'm not doing that list too, ya know.

lol There's nothing wrong with having multiple armies!

Stelek wrote:Just let it go.

Ack... Stelek letting go... chest... hurting...

CLEAR!

5x10 Tactical Marines. Flamer, Multimelta.

Same thoughts I am having with Multi's being cheaper than las cannons and the shorter range is not much of a drawback when your out of position one turn move and then run to be in position next turn. I was actually thinking the same (move to position and run) with the new dreadnaught because armor 13 and getting a cover save isn't as hard to pull off with dreads.

Right. The Ironclad is (IMO) a better deal. Alot cheaper than a Ven, and comes with Extra armor for free where it's the stupid high price for a Ven. I think it's like a 50 point difference.

Here is my first pass and the "new book" info concerning the fists:

HQ - Lysander
Elite - 10 Sternguard vets w/ an assortment of combi-weapons
Troops 1 - 10 Marines w/ Razorback
Troops 2 - 10 Marines w/ Razorback
Troops 3 - 10 SM Scouts w/snipers, cloaks, HB, and Sgt. Telion
Fast Attack 1 - Land Speeder Storm
Fast Attack 2 - 10 Assault Marines
Heavy Support 1 - Whirlwind
Heavy Support 2 - Whrilwind
Heavy Support 3 - Land Raider Redeemer

That's around 1850 pts

- Lysander and all or half of the sternguard could ride in the Redeemer
- he gives them rerolls on all bolter shots
- He can fortify one piece of terrain (likely for the scouts w/ cloaks giving a 2+ cover save)
- Half of the scouts could go with the speeder
- half of each tac squad could choose to ride in the RB's

Thoughts?