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This is a rough draft list of the 2000pt army I am working towards. I have some points extra, and no clue where to cut some points, so any help is appreciated

Anything in ()'s has already been counted and is just for my organizational needs.

HQ

Commander Farsight
XV8, HWTL, SG, BK, PR, DB
7 Crisis Bodyguard
5 MP
4 PR
3 FB
2 Flamers
1)(FB/Flam)Targeting Array, HW-DC, HW-MT
2)(PR/MP)Targeting Array, HW-DC, HW-MT, HW-TL
3)(FB/MP) Targeting Array, HW-DC, HW-MT
4)(PR/MP)Targetting Array, Failsafe Det, HW-MT, HW-DC, HW-TL
5)(PR/MP)Targeting Array, Stim Injec, HW-DC, HW-MT, HW-TL
6)(PR/MP)Targeting Array, HW-MT, HW-BSF, HWDC, HW-TL
7)(FB/Flam) Targeting Array, BSF, HW-DC, HW-MT
14 Shield Drones

965


Elite


Crisis Suit
TL-FB
43

Crisis Suit
TL-FB
43


Troops


Firewarrior Squad 9 w/ Pulse Rifle
BK

90


Firewarrior Squad 9 w/ Pulse Rifle
BK
Devil Fish
SMS
DP/FD

205

Firewarrior Squad 9 w/ Pulse Rifle
BK
Devil Fish
SMS
DP/FD

205

Fast Attack


5 Pathfinders w/ Pulse/ML
BK
Devil Fish
DP/FD


155


Heavy Support

Broadside Suit Shas'ui Team Leader
A.S.S/HW-DC/BK/HW-BSF/HW-MT
Broadside Suit Shas'ui
A.S.S
Shield Drone
Shield Drone

203


Hammerhead
Railgun
SMS
MT/BSF/DP/DL
185


2,094

EDIT: Removed point value for total equipment on broadside leader
EDIT 2: Raised font size for "Heavy Support"
EDIT 3: I am a perfectionist I guess
EDIT 4: Updated Army List
EDIT 5: Forgot to remove 10pts for Broadside leader (took away TL-PR and forgot) Thanks lambadomy. Added BKs. Removed unmounted FW squad.

Stealth Suits are not very good, I'd cut them for a 3rd unit of troops (scoring units are necessary, even if FWs suck). There is also no real need to get Team Leaders in your FW units, so you can save some points by not taking them. I'd personally try to find points for SMS systems on the Devilfishes too. sure the fish can't move and shoot 7 shots anymore, but the SMS ignores cover so horde type units won't get cover saves from it, which makes it very valuable.

Also your Farsight unit is really not utilizing the best rules available to them, which is wound allocation rules for complex units. Make each of your suits have unique wargear (ie no 2 suits have the exact same wargear) in order to really make your unit survive anything. They'll have to kill through all the shield drones and then cause your suits 9 wounds before you lose a single suit that way.

I'd cut the Seekers on the Pirhanas and get them Targetting Arrays instead. BS4 Fusion Guns are good for tank hunting and will hit more consistantly than BS3 will.

you can find points to get down to 2k by dropping one of the FB/MP suits from the elites unit. PErsonally I'd run a TL FG + whatever suit there and use him specifically for dropping next to things like Land Raiders and blowing them apart. He's cheap, has the ability to influct major damage to any armor he drops near, and expendable.

Would Vectored thrusters be a decent choice for the montat elite?


By the way, thank you... you have given me many ideas not only with my army but a few new strats as well that I might be able to tweak around with

More shield drones/other drones with farsight, imo. The more ablative wounds the better.

Probably don't need seeker missiles. Don't need stealth suits.

Not sure about the piranhas at all. Squad gives up two kill points. Your army has 16 Kill points which isn't the end of the world, but 15 of them are in a little more than 1200 points of army. That seems like a lot. Part of this is the devilfish's stupid drones which are expensive to replace, but part of it is the piranhas. I'm not sure what they're going to accomplish that a deep striking crisis team wont for less points. If you keep the piranhas you may want to consider flechette dischargers on them too. Having 5 skimmers available to block access to farsight and hurt things that charge them is fun.

Consider giving some or all of the Farsight models fusion blasters instead of missile pods. Depends on what range you expect him to operate at - I find in 5e I want to be closer and I am less worried about them dying eventually.

One member of Farsights retinue should have the failsafe detonator, it's a lifesaver.

One member of Farsight's retinue, or a second HQ that joins the squad, should have a stim injector. Having someone you can put FNP wounds on is fun. And it's another unit in the squad that is "different" for wound allocation.

Pathfinders have to have a devilfish. I assume you're just buying it for them and then giving it to the firewarriors but I thought I'd mention it.

I'm currently playing with three devilfish with 3 squads of firewarriors and one squad of 6 pathfinders (their devilfish gets stolen). At 2000 points I just don't think you can get away with two troops choices, but I may be wrong.

Consider making two of the drones in the farsight unit marker drones.

If you think it's worth 10 points to make the devilfish able to move 6+ and shoot (multitrackers) isn't it worth 5 points to increase their ballistic skill to 4? Personally I just run with DP and FD and I'm just thinking out loud. TAs are cheap.

Something tells me I will need to buy rare earth magnets to make it easier to try different configurations without having to go through glue bs.

What is the point of giving the Devil Fish to the pathfinders if your just eventually going to take it away and give it to the Firewarriors? (possibly a stupid question I know, but again I haven't played a game yet.)

The point of the piranhas was a deep strike, but I like the idea of them being support for Farsight mainly because I fear hordes and MEQ's. That is also why I chose the missle pods. If I can have a suit or two taking out vehicles in the back on the cheap, I'm all for it.

I think I'll read over the rules for wound allocation and complex units.

There is no point. The Pathfinders are required to buy a devilfish, it's part of their rules. In 5e you happen to be able to let other units get into that devilfish, but it still belongs to the pathfinders.

Yeah, all 12 of my crisis suits are magnetized. Makes my life a lot easier, especially since I don't want the same weapons when i'm playing farsight as I do when I'm not.

Something I overlooked (and thgis explains why the Farsight unit is s few points in your list now that I think about it) is that every single suit in Farsights unit sohuld have 2 shield drones. You want to pile them into that unit, as many as possible. The idea behind Farsight's unit is that it can't die, so it can just roll around the table shooting anything close enough to it to death.

One problem with his unit is that it is so expensive. If you add that many shield drones it will be half over half of your points, and not as effective as other things you could get for that many points.

It may look nasty as a single unit, but it nerfs the rest of your army.

Updated the list (yes, it is expensive as hell for this HQ lol)

This is quite a nasty list I must say. It will be a pain in the but for your enemy to take this unit out.

I would get rid of Stimulant Injector to give you some more points. Its pointless when you have that many stinkin shield drones.

Give all of your units BKs, especially your FWs. You don't want your very weak three troops choices running away in an objective grab.


I don't know that much, but I'm pretty sure that your very expensive unit would die hard against Genestealer spam. Rending claws... implant attack... it wouldn't be pretty.

Your broadside team as listed is only 203 points, not 213

If you drop the MT and the BSF they're 195. That change and dropping the unmounted FWs get you down to 2000, for one possibility. I think a single squad of unmounted FWs are dead meat in 5th edition, but I guess you might get lucky and have a LOS blocking wall for them to hide behind and control an objective.

The farsight squad looks good. My current experiment is to replace all the TAs with flamers (so the squad has PR/MP/flamers or PR/Fusion/Flamers) and give the squad two marker drones. I also put a marker drone in a crisis squad. The problem is obviously that the farsight squad doesn't necessarily want to shoot at the same thing they're marking. But it saves some points and gives me massed flamers which can be very useful. But I'm not convinced its a good idea, just something to play around with.

If it loses it loses. I've heard Farsight is one of the hardest configs to play in 40k. That's kind of why I wanted it. I don't expect to go into a tourny and get first place anytime soon. I expect that over a long carrer of 40k games, that I will develop tactics as I go, but I will have the tools to win. Once I play this for awhile, I plan on making either an IG or a Eldar amy. Now, as far as Genestealer spam, what exactly would you do to offset that. Any units you would trade in/out?

The Bringer wrote:One problem with his unit is that it is so expensive. If you add that many shield drones it will be half over half of your points, and not as effective as other things you could get for that many points.

It may look nasty as a single unit, but it nerfs the rest of your army.

It isn't exactly a "problem" per say since the Farsight list is already not allowed to load upon the heav hitters (Railguns... Hammerheads and Broadsides are both 0-1). That massive unit of suits is going to be more survivable than a few units of 3 suits as well since there is such an incredible amount of ablative wounds to eat through before any real damage is caused.

OP:

Revised list looks a lot better to me. Personally, I would dropthe 100pt Crsis team and get a Devilfish for one of your troops units. You want them in Fishes as much as possible because it protects them. FW are easy to kill when they're on foot and since you don't have a lot of them, or access to Kroot, you really need to protect your scoring units. You can let one unit roll around in the Pathfinder's fish, one unit already has a fish in your list, so find points for a fish for the third unit.

I'd also vary the weapons in the Farsigh unit a little bit (I'd include a fusion gun or two, as well as perhaps a lfamer or two... dropping Plasma Rifles and a ML or two to find hardpoints for them) and make use of Target Locks as well. You don't want to get stuck unloading your entire unit on something that 2-3 suits can kill with ease and Target Locks solve this problem for you. More than half of your points are invested in this unit, so you want it to be able to adequately perform multiple tasks per turn if possible (and with Farsight's unit, it is very possible). Also switching the weapons a bit will help you avoid the more expensive suit wargear and still keep your suits unique, which should save you some points.

I don't have my codex handy at the moment, so what is a "VRT"? I can't decide if I would invest the points on a SG for a lone suit like that, I think keeping it as cheap as possible would be more ideal since it probably won't live long. I can see where it mgiht be nice because it can play havoc in the opposing player's backfield if they don't deal with it, and the SG makes it somewhat more survivable but I really don't know if its survivable enough to justify the points spent on it.

VRT is Vectored retro-thrusters. Only usable by montat suits, allows hit and run.

The SG was kind of a funny little addition on my part. I found it hilarious. 20 points, so I might trade that out for a SMS on devilfish

yea, I wouldn't bother with that at all. It won't really do anything for you. A lone suit like that sin't going to live through a round of combat with anything the opposing player decides to put in combat with it.

Oh, didnt notice you dropped the target locks. You need target locks on the farsight squad. Maybe not 7 of them, but at least 3 or 4. Farsight is going to charge things. if you fire everything at a squad you want to charge you won't have anything left to charge. One of the strengths of farsight is being able to shoot one squad off the board and charge a different one in the same turn.

For example, the genestealer spammer. If not outflanking, you can kill a squad of genestealers a turn from shooting at 24 with a markerlight hit (8 genestealers even with 4+ cover). You can also take out entire squads of genestealers in assault so long as you get to assault (not easy since they fleet and you don't, but not impossible). 8 Genestealers are only going to kill 4 drones at I 6 (24 attacks, 16 hits, 8 wounds, 4 unsaved) even if they all rend. You win on your turn just with the suits (21 attacks, 10.5 hits, 7 wounds, 4.6 unsaved plus farsights 1.6 wounds). 20 Drone attacks add 1.5 unsaved wounds. 10 genestealers doesn't really fix it for them, just adds one more dead drone and lose combat by 2.

Obviously fighting 2 or 3 squads of genestealers at the same time in CC is a loss for you but the most he can have is 7 squads of 12, and if he outflanks you just stand in the middle of the board and ream him. Since you have the failsafe detonator if you get hit with two squads of stealers at the same time you can probably get away without even losing a suit - 12 drones die from two squads of 12 stealers, you lose combat by 6 and run, can't be swept because of failsafe detonator, killed 6 stealers and probably more with the blast template...and you get to shoot again another day! Seems ok to me. Plus you do have the hammerhead, broadsides, flamer crisis teams and firewarriors shooting too...

ANyway who ever said it was fun to play against, say, 84 genestealers and a broodlord anyway? But you can definitely do it.

Updated yet again

I have NO clue on the mathhammer portion, but I think that the farsight squad is about as good as it is going to get.

Don't really need the DL on the hammerhead - only works on a glancing 6 (immobilized) which is uncommon, and in 5e you don't crash when immobilized so it's not as big a deal to avoid it. You're over points so you may as well cut where you can

At this point your best option is to play it/try out different configs. You can talk about farsight all day but in the end you have to try it. Personally I think you should go back to all MP/PR or all FB/PR...I find farsight to be very frustrating and under powered when some percentage of the squad isn't able to fire effectively.

Whats the differance between having 14 shield drones & 4 shield drones?

14 shield drones is 10 more ablative wounds than 4 shield drones. This makes a massive difference in the unit's survivability and ability to remain at full combat effectiveness.

drop stealths get troops

the assasin of night wrote:drop stealths get troops

Did that already

oh soz must hav missed that bit

This is one of those armies that you can't be sure of its effectiveness until you've used it. I don't think it will do that well against nids, but it will shred marines and maybe Necrons.

Eh, it can put up a solid fight against Nidzilla since the Farsight unit can generally knock down a big bug on its own each turn. Combined Railguns and fire from fishes and such can probably do serious damage to another each turn.

For the horde style armies Farsight's unit boasts an impresive volume of shots fromthe MPs and rapid firing PMs, the Hammerhead has a BS4 big blast and the fishes get quite a few shots too. The real difficulty with the list is keeping Farsight's unit from getting bogged down and tarpitted. If this happens, over half of the army is stuck in one place doing nothing until it can free itself.

I tried to make it as versatile as I can. FoF w/ a objective grabber 3rd squad. The broadside team should be able to stay up long enough to do some damage. A couple of can openers (antitank). With all the help I've gotten from you guys, I think once I make a few point trims, get a few games under my belt, and tweak wargear this should be able to rock some face.


I'm very happy with the direction my list went. Thanks guys Your help is appreciated

It looks good.

Tell us how your next game goes


I especially like how you did your FW units. They are about as good as it gets. You used the magic "9" troops and a BK. Thats what I always do now-a-days.

Yeah imma noob, but at least i do my research .


Got my last FW squad, crisis suit, and devil fish in, so this weekend ill be getting the rest of my stuff build.

I ended up with a couple of squads of kroot, which is all well and good. Might just keep them for a 1000pt army in the future.

Just need one or two more crisis suits (for the montats). Also need some SMS systems for the devilfish, but I think I'll get those at mid south con or the bunker in Memphis. Magnets were ordered today, and should be in monday (.125x.069 discs which I hope will work), and planning on getting one of the battle foam bags.

The only thing I dread now is painting... . My Commander turned out well, it took me three days though . Made him weathered (pastel grounded up.. wow lol), battle worn and everything. Just like a Commander under Farsight should look . Using urban camo'd Vior'la sept. Anyone know if it would cause a problem in any offical games or the such if I painted farsight a dark blue instead of his red? Thats been something I've been wondering for awhile.


So thats pretty much where I am at now guys, I appreciate all your help and suggestions. Be sure to check the M&P forum if you are interested, I was very scared on how good I was going to do, but impressed myself . Thank you for being so patient with my lack of knowledge of the game.

It doesn't matter what color you paint Farsight, as long as you're using the Farsight model or a model that has Farsight's wargear.

I hate to rain on your parade, but you have to upgrade one firewarrior to have access to the armoury in order to get the free bonding knives. "Blood Brothers: Every model in Farsight's army with access to the armoury gains a Bonding Knife at no additional cost."

Also, if I were facing this list, I would do just what someone else mentioned and tarpit Farsight's unit with something in hand to hand. Not hard to do at 2k either with Terminators, Plaguemarines or 30 boyz or swarms and swarms of gaunts etc. I personally feel that Farsight's bodyguard (while potentailly impressive for wound allocation as you have shown) is really a trap. If you attach Farsight to an Elite's choice unit of Crisis suits, he can break from the squad and go smite something in hand to hand. You also leave the suits free to shoot other units. I prefer that flexibility over ablative wounds (which can be had through other means like drones).

Also, do you honestly think 3 railguns is enough at 2k? You have 3 fusion blasters in Farsight's squad, but they don't have target locks. Granted it's unlikely that you find yourself within 6'' of 2 or more vehicles, but you essentially have 3 anti tank weapons and 1 squad which might shoot a target of opportunity if they encounter a vehicle.