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Hi all,

I've been looking through the eldar codex and was drawn to howling banshees because well, even though i've never collected eldar, they look awesome. I did however notice that if banshees were to fight chaos space amrines oir space marines then it would mean that its a 5+ to wound. Therefore I was wondering, is it even worth fielding banshees against an army of chaos spae marines or space marines? For instance would they get murdered against a khorne berserker?


ahh the joys of looking througha codex...

Well it is a 16 point unit all with power weapons. to do that with SM you nee 35 point vans, or hounor guard.

When it comes to Howling Banshees, the way to do it is with a Wave Serpent and a nearby farseer. Doom takes them from 'not bad' to 'dangerous'. Power weapons are rather pleasant. There's lots of mathhammer comparisons between banshees and Scorpions, if you're curious about just straight up effectiveness.

And remember, even though it's +5 to wound, there are no armour saves to be taken.

Banshees are worth the points
Cheap and effective power weapon unit.

quick example here:

10 Banshees get 3 (1 basic, 1 charge, 1 for 2 CC weps) attacks on the charge.

30 attacks hitting on a 4+ = 15 hits.
15 hits wounding on a 5+ = just under 3 wounds with no saves.

so all in all, they arent amazing, but still not bad for points.

10 marines hit back.

1 attack each basic (bolter) - 10 attacks back.
4+ to hit = 5 hits.
wounding on 3+ = 2.5 wounds.
4+ save means a total of 1.25 unsaved wounds.


So all in all, shoot them up a bit 1st, if the chaos player has a pistol + cc wep then you will be doing around the same damage each.
If they charge then they will get an advantage and win.

just basic math hammer though, so no champ / ex taken into account on this one

Look up the rules for doom, then add banshees... lots of hits with re-roll 5+ means lots of dead marines.

Don't forget that they have to get OUT of the waveserpent and WAIT a turn before they Banshees can assault. And if they slog it, they die, period.

They CAN work well but thats a big IF THIS HAPPENS. You basically have to have a few things happen:

1. Aren't assaulting / being assaulted by TH/SS Terminators
2. You are striking first
3. Have Doom on the unit you're assaulting
4. You are not significantly outnumbered
5. You are within assault range
6. You haven't been shot to death.

So IMO for them to work, most everything has to be going your way. They require so much that IMO you should just take a seer council, if not a jetcouncil which is far superior to both.

Don't forget that they have to get OUT of the waveserpent and WAIT a turn before they Banshees can assault. And if they slog it, they die, period.

Or, you know, park the wave serpent close enough for the HBs to charge out next turn. I mean, are we afraid of Melta now?

If your using a transport then drop the banshees behind it to take cover, then with a 6" move, fleet and 6" assault they shouldnt have problems getting into assault.

Also, banshees are an ace unit against plague marines as far as eldar combat goes.
Granted, wounding them is a real bitch, but it ignores saves and thier FNP.

Um banshees always strike first in the first round of combat, unless its a keeper of secrets and then your screwed anyways. The other points are mainly one of choosing your battles which with eldar speed is usually they way they win. Also you can leave the banshees in the vehicle on the turn they arrive in assault range. Let the waveserpant take a beating, if it dies you loose a banshee or two. If it doesn't you drop your banshees and assault. So while things have to go your way, you should choose who you attack and then things will be going your way. plus after they drop if they are within 12 you can fire your pistols and kill a marine! On the other hand not so good against orcs...

Quick problem with the wave idea, but if it does get blown up then you risk losing the banshees aswell.

Wrecked result means you get slapped with a pinning test.

Destroyed will kill a few and force a pinning test.


This will also lead to being in difficult terrain :(

shows how much i use transports since coming back to the game (played in 3rd for a long time). tbh i just looked up the rule myself to make sure i was right. Silly necrons never learning how to make something hollow.

Remember that the Bounding Leap Exarch power can give them Counter-Attack at Ld9.

With 10 Howling Banshees against 10 Tactical Space Marines you'd get 30 attacks on the charge, 15 hits on average, and 5 wounds. Which is alright. With Doom you could expect 8 wounds. If 5 Marines attacked back you'd see 5 attacks, 3 hits, 2 wounds, and 1 save for one dead Banshee on average. If 2 Marines attacked back you'd see 2 attacks, 1 hit, and 1 save on average. In the first case the Tactical Marines would have to pass on Ld5, and in the second case they'd have to pass on Ld2.

They'd probably want to use Combat Tactics to run anyways, as that would open up your Banshees to a reaming in the following Space Marine turn. But the Banshee's I5 would likely catch them them leaving 3 and 1 survivors in case of No Retreat! And that would leave them with a Space Marine or two to hide behind during the Space Marine shooting phase.

As mentioned though, their advantages go up against Space Marine boogie-man squads like Assault Terminators.

10 Howling Banshees with Counter-Attack working would cause 3 wounds on a Terminator squad, or 2 wounds on an Assault Terminator squad.

Of course, with a sprinking of Doom, those Terminator squads go from 3 and 2 unsaved wounds on average to 5 and 3 wounds.

Supposing 5 man Terminator squads, that's a Terminator squad wiped out before they can swing, on average, and an Assault Terminator squad going in with two Terminators left so long as the entire squad had Lightening Shields.

If the Terminators are charging they'd get 6 attacks with Thunder Hammers from the two who made their Iv3+. That's 3 hits, 3 wounds. So it'd be even. Unless the Banshees had an Exarch with Warshout as well as Bounding Leap, and the Terminators failed their Ld9 to swing at WS1. That would mean 6 attacks, 2 hits, 1 wound, and a loss to the Terminators.

In the next round, the Howling Banshees would only have 14 attacks, 7 hits, 2 wounds, and 1 save, for another dead Assault Terminator. The survivor would get 2 attacks, 1 hit, 1 wound. Tie. Really, these are ties that the Eldar player can afford. Losing one Assault Terminator per round in exchange for a Howling Banshee is "the suck".

Just a point thats worth noting here, you will need that charge to win combats, the extra attack and making sure you go 1st is crucial.
I5 isnt amazing, any marine / chaos has I4 as standard, units with furious charge will be hitting you at the same time, meaning not only do you not get to thin the unit out before they attack back, but your attacks get limited badly.

Well, if you have an Exarch with Bounding Leap and Warshout, you have a decent change of Counter-Attacking as effectively as charging, and getting licks in at I6 with the Exarch before the Furious Chargers like Berzerkers get theirs.

So receiving a charge can be an effective tactic for Howling Banshees. Like closing with a close combat oriented enemy, when they don't have Furious Charge (so not Orks or Berzerkers) rather than trying to play chicken with them to see who charges first.

I don't know, I've never been too scared of Banshees, but then again I use plague marines.

The only time they've wrecked house is with Jainzar and getting Furious Charge + Doom combo.

Seriously, that extra strength helps by leaps in bounds in my encounters with it.
Sadly, I think it is known to most players that PL's are overcosted for what they do, and I don't see many of them used, nor used in army lists.

My 7 Cents.

Orkestra wrote:Doom takes them from 'not bad' to 'dangerous'.

This, so much this.

Like most of the "all power weapon" units, those girls need backup. Dooming their target will really help you out.

banshees scare me, as a marine player. so much so that I focus all my lascannon fire on their serpent, until they die. then I kill them, with extreme ranged prejudice.

of course, this leaves the rest of your army wide open to strike for like a turn, but I feel its a worthwhile tradeoff.

they almost attract as much attention from me as dark reapers with tempest launchers do.

So, if i were to play apocalypse, would it be worth my while having a far seer equipped purely to assist the banshees? I have to say doom had completely escaped my mind and i hadnt even considering it.

i don't play eldar by boy have a i got a friend who knows how to use em well eldar armies always seem to be about huge levels of synergy if you have a farseer behind those bashee's to let the re-roll hits and wounds your hurting them and on a khorne berserker note you'll hurt them striking first but you'll get destroyed if they get to strike back

Well the advantage of a farseer in a waveserpant with doom is that he can help far more than just your banshees. If you want to see a large squad of orcs die, cast doom on a mob squad and then bladestorm them. You might not kill them all but you can get a pretty sizeable amount of wounds. 30 shots, 20 hits, 15 wounds, if they came on a serpent with scatter lasers thats another 3 dead, then they are much more reasonable to deal with (12 models yeah). Oh and then you can charge them with scorpions and kill the rest (probably). The next turn you doom a squad for your banshees etc. So a farseer in a falcon/serpant can do a lot for your army.

hmm, good point! I;ve seen alot of people posting about farseers in other topics and how their good in wave serpents (especially eldrad). Do they mean using the wave serpent as a transport, then disembarking and eventually using psychic powers or do they actually mean they can use powers inside the serpent? may sound abit dumb but the way some people talk its as if the farseer can use certain power whilst inside it but ive never seen or heard of this before :/

Minaith1989 wrote:hmm, good point! I;ve seen alot of people posting about farseers in other topics and how their good in wave serpents (especially eldrad). Do they mean using the wave serpent as a transport, then disembarking and eventually using psychic powers or do they actually mean they can use powers inside the serpent? may sound abit dumb but the way some people talk its as if the farseer can use certain power whilst inside it but ive never seen or heard of this before :/

Other then the shooting attacks a farseer can use all his powers while embarked on a transport. distance is measured from the hull. This is because he does not require line of sight to his target.

Tri wrote:

Minaith1989 wrote:hmm, good point! I;ve seen alot of people posting about farseers in other topics and how their good in wave serpents (especially eldrad). Do they mean using the wave serpent as a transport, then disembarking and eventually using psychic powers or do they actually mean they can use powers inside the serpent? may sound abit dumb but the way some people talk its as if the farseer can use certain power whilst inside it but ive never seen or heard of this before :/

Other then the shooting attacks a farseer can use all his powers while embarked on a transport. distance is measured from the hull. This is because he does not require line of sight to his target.

aha, that explains it then, thats alot for clearing that up!

Also, dont forget that the banshee exarch has some nice weapon options. If her squad has a farseer to supply doom then she can go with mirror swords to give her +2 attacks (5 total on the charge or counter attack) or else she can take an executioner to have str5 when no farseer is going to be along.




Sliggoth

Banshees are built to kill marines. Heres a link to my Mathhammer on a Necron Vs Banshee/Scorpion thread. Just cut the WBB and you'll see it.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/254529.page#945468

Stats for 10 Banshees Charging (including Exarch with Executioner)
9x Normal Banshees:
27 x .5 = 13.5 hits
17.82 x.33 = 4.46 dead
Exarch:
3 x .66 = 2 hits
2 x .66 = 1.32 dead
Total:
1.32 dead + 4.46 dead = 5.78 dead marines

JD21290 I think your math Banshees are worth the points
Cheap and effective power weapon unit.

quick example here:

10 Banshees get 3 (1 basic, 1 charge, 1 for 2 CC weps) attacks on the charge.

30 attacks hitting on a 4+ = 15 hits.
15 hits wounding on a 5+ = just under 3 wounds with no saves.

so all in all, they arent amazing, but still not bad for points.

10 marines hit back.

1 attack each basic (bolter) - 10 attacks back.
4+ to hit = 5 hits.
wounding on 3+ = 2.5 wounds.
4+ save means a total of 1.25 unsaved wounds.


So all in all, shoot them up a bit 1st, if the chaos player has a pistol + cc wep then you will be doing around the same damage each.
If they charge then they will get an advantage and win.

just basic math hammer though, so no champ / ex taken into account on this one

is a little off
IF 15 hit and wound on five plus it would be five dead not three

If you like the banshee model/fluff, take them.

If you want a competitive unit, there is plenty more in the eldar codex that is much more competitive.

Fun game? Sure.

Serious game? Not ever.

Addicted to Bleach wrote:JD21290 I think your math Banshees are worth the points
Cheap and effective power weapon unit.

quick example here:

10 Banshees get 3 (1 basic, 1 charge, 1 for 2 CC weps) attacks on the charge.

30 attacks hitting on a 4+ = 15 hits.
15 hits wounding on a 5+ = just under 3 wounds with no saves.

so all in all, they arent amazing, but still not bad for points.

10 marines hit back.

1 attack each basic (bolter) - 10 attacks back.
4+ to hit = 5 hits.
wounding on 3+ = 2.5 wounds.
4+ save means a total of 1.25 unsaved wounds.


So all in all, shoot them up a bit 1st, if the chaos player has a pistol + cc wep then you will be doing around the same damage each.
If they charge then they will get an advantage and win.

just basic math hammer though, so no champ / ex taken into account on this one

is a little off
IF 15 hit and wound on five plus it would be five dead not three

10 marines hit back? but you just killed 3 of them.
Also where is the Exarch and Sargent? ALL SM sergents, should at least have 2 CCW if not a P.weapon or P.Fist. All Banshee should take an Exarch because the of the weapons and abilities she brings (+1a and then a weapon ...personally I like the executioner 3 attacks on the charge at str5).