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Hi

Starting a new space marine army, but need help on units.

Please post tactics/units which are good/bad

Ten Commandments of Codex Space Marines:

1. Always take a Librarian with Null Zone.

2. Remember you are a shooty army first and an assault army second.

3. Avoid Pure Drop Pod Armies.

4. When taking drop pods, always take into consideration drop pod assault.

5. You can't go wrong with a Land Raider.

6. Tactical Flexibility over pure assault or pure shooty.

7. Never pay for a heavy weapon in a Tactical Squad.

8. Choose your HQs first and the rest of your army second.

9. Combat Tactics are good, but don't rely on it.

10. Don't be agressive with your tactical marines.



Tell us what you like or think is "cool" about the marines, and we can tell you where to go from there.

Extra commandment

11. Usually when taking Landspeeders it's better to use them as separate choises instead having them as squadron.

Mahu wrote:Ten Commandments of Codex Space Marines:

1. Always take a Librarian with Null Zone.

2. Remember you are a shooty army first and an assault army second.

3. Avoid Pure Drop Pod Armies.

4. When taking drop pods, always take into consideration drop pod assault.

5. You can't go wrong with a Land Raider.

6. Tactical Flexibility over pure assault or pure shooty.

7. Never pay for a heavy weapon in a Tactical Squad.

8. Choose your HQs first and the rest of your army second.

9. Combat Tactics are good, but don't rely on it.

10. Don't be agressive with your tactical marines.



Tell us what you like or think is "cool" about the marines, and we can tell you where to go from there.

For a 10 point general list, this is pretty solid.

Mahu wrote:Ten Commandments of Codex Space Marines:

1. Always take a Librarian with Null Zone.

2. Remember you are a shooty army first and an assault army second.

3. Avoid Pure Drop Pod Armies.

4. When taking drop pods, always take into consideration drop pod assault.

5. You can't go wrong with a Land Raider.

6. Tactical Flexibility over pure assault or pure shooty.

7. Never pay for a heavy weapon in a Tactical Squad.

8. Choose your HQs first and the rest of your army second.

9. Combat Tactics are good, but don't rely on it.

10. Don't be agressive with your tactical marines.



Tell us what you like or think is "cool" about the marines, and we can tell you where to go from there.

Only one I disagree with is number 7. 5 points for a plasmacannon is a great buy when combined with a plasma rifle.

Always put your librarian with your veterens. If I'm playing offensive, I put him with vanguard vets, no jumppacks, using the powers Quickening and Might of the Ancients. Or if I'm being defensive, put him with my sternguar vets and use Machine Curse and Smite.

honestly, a librarian can work well in several ways... here are some of the ways i've used one successfully -

*librarian + 5 man tac squad in a razorback
normally used with null zone + avenger, he can make a cheap squad a threat, while providing null zone to nearby units that make better use of it.

*librarian + 10 man assault squad w/ flamers
again with null zone + avenger, he makes the squad a real threat against any unit. cheaper than vangaurd, they still throw out 3 templates per turn, 1 of which is ap3, and put out 8 power sword attacks on the charge, nothing to scoff at. you can mix it up with might of the ancients if you want, but avenger rocks.

*librarian + 10 shooty terminators
equipped with terminator armor and a stormshield, he's most durable here. give him null zone + vortex of doom, and he will just walk up the field with the squad pumping out bullets. you can also give him gate + null zone if you want, but make sure you take null zone... it rocks.

*librarian + command squad or honor guard
either on bikes or off, the librarian gets the added perk of feel no pain here, making him more durable. He's going into close combat here, so the best way to kit him would be as an epistolary with force dome + either null zone, avenger, or might of the ancients, depending on the situation. If you take stormshields, forget the epistolary upgrade, its not needed.





this is not an exhaustive list, but anywhere else and I feel the librarian isn't best used. don't put him with assault terminators... he really shouldn't be used in such an offensive roll unless he is needed for force dome. the whole librarian + sternguard thing is kinda OTT points wise for my taste... a kitted out sternguard squad is approaching the cost of a 10 man shooty terminator squad, and i'd rather have the terminators.

Mahu wrote:Ten Commandments of Codex Space Marines:

1. Always take a Librarian with Null Zone.

2. Remember you are a shooty army first and an assault army second.

3. Avoid Pure Drop Pod Armies.

4. When taking drop pods, always take into consideration drop pod assault.

5. You can't go wrong with a Land Raider.

6. Tactical Flexibility over pure assault or pure shooty.

7. Never pay for a heavy weapon in a Tactical Squad.

8. Choose your HQs first and the rest of your army second.

9. Combat Tactics are good, but don't rely on it.

10. Don't be agressive with your tactical marines.

Tell us what you like or think is "cool" about the marines, and we can tell you where to go from there.

I disagree with 7 and 10 - If you are definatly going to combat squad, there is no reason you shouldn't pay points for a Heavy Weapon. Also, if you running a flamer/fist or melta/combi melta combat squad, how can you not be agressive with them?

Also, point 1 depends on your local metagame. If no-one plays a Inv save heavy army, its kind of a waste. (for example, only one person at my local ever has more than 1 model with a inv save (as chaos player who often runs a squad of 1ksons). I think something like Machine Curse and The Avenger/Smite work far better.

I agree with Horsts' uses for the librarian. However I believe the best would be using him in a 5 man tac with a TW lascannon razorback or as a terminator with an assault termie squad in a land raider. Powers would be nullzone on both instances, with Avenger for the standard libby, and Might with the termie libby.

Ignore weapons with a libby and give him sheild so he lasts longer. And if you can afford the points, make him an epistolary.

Just my 3 cents.

jimbob2002 wrote:Hi
Starting a new space marine army, but need help on units.
Please post tactics/units which are good/bad

* Special Characters will usually give you better value for points than building your own Captain or Chapter Master.
* Librarians with TDA & Storm Shield are very good if you do not want a Special Character or as a second HQ.
* Land Speeders & Attack Bikes are good delivery platforms for Multi-Meltas
* Assault Terminators in a Land Raider are very effective in combat.

I've been writing what I'm thinking about each space marine unit, I'll keep adding once a day or so (unless I get extremely busy)

So if you want to know what I think then you can go and read it here

Are jump pack vanguards really worth the points?

Depends...but most will say no.
They require a list built around them to make the most out of them.

Much of the points you pay for them is the ability to charge after deepstriking...which means the risk/resources are high to get it to work, while the rewards are not exactly consistantly high.

I disagree with #7. Plasma Cannons are a great deal in a Tactical Squad. So much so that even if you don't fire them, it's not much of a waste. Any Heavy weapon that can wipe out half a MEQ squad in one good shot is a good option to have in my book.

Vanguard with packs are generally not worth the points. But like everything else in the SM codex, it's how you use it, and how it works in your army.

Synergy and gameplan are everything to a Space Marine army. Without cohesion, your force will seem weak and underpowered and overcosted. With cohesion, you can compete with anyone anywhere.

True, if you look at all the unit options, they are essentially all support units.
Even the 'rank and file' tacticals are really just support units to the support units.

So are Sternguard a much more viable option

Yes.

They have their faults but are alot easier to apply than vanguard.
And open a can of whoop-ass at range.

Thanks for the help

I have heard many people refer to bikers as 'hammer' units. What does this mean exactly

Well, they are fast delivery systems for Biker ICs, Special weapons, and alot of dakka and damage in the short term, with a hvy weapon to boot.

They can drive up fast, get within charge distance open fire with:
Hvy bolter or Multi-melta,
2 Special weapons.
And then roughly 7 TL bolters in rapid fire range.
What's left (that hasn't run away or taken wounds from front enough to deny a charge) is charged with a further handful of attacks and maybe an IC and fists in there.

So, they are relatively durable, do shooting well, combat not so much but doable, very fast, carry weapons to deal with anything in 40K

Should they need to they don't need to approach and stay at arms length.
Then there's the base abuse issues.

They have their cons though:
-Largefootprints are double edged swords.
-No going up second floor
-Low model count
-Overestimating durability
-Not really a combat unit
-Pricey points and money wise.
-Requires more thought in usage and deployment than other units to get the most out of.

And yes, I do love bikers...

Thanks for the help.

just been putting a list together, but stumped on Elites. Whats best, termies, Dreadnoughts, or Sternguard?

Sternguard. No termis. No dreadnoughts.

Depends on what your list is like. If you're heavy on MM attack bikes or speeders you won't need sternguard with combimeltas or dreads with MM. Dreads can be fielded with two tl autocannons for anti transport duty which is covered by few SM units. Assaulttermis (TH/SS) are one of the hardest cc units ever. standard termis can be equipped with nice shooting (HF cheap antihorde, AC little pricey but versatile and Cyclone ML for anti vehicle or antihorde) and still be a bitch in hth.
Elite choices can fill in any gap your army might have (with pedro your Sternguard can even be scoring) or set up a core you might build around.

I got 10 assault termies, and 10 Normal. I've got many multi meltas, so not really worth the dreads.

I've got a full unit of Sternguard, but I was thinking of making 2 with heavy flamers, for anti-horde, as my army lacks this. What you think

That is a unique choice.
Decent I would say, but what is the delivery.

I would want to say a rhino cause you can focus on tank shocking to bunch up the enemy.

Great idea Sanctjud, I'll try it out next game.

Is Pedro worth taking, so that these guys can be scoring units

Well... how many stern are you taking?
How many squads?
Do you really need the +1A Aura?
Would you rather have Stubborn or Combat Tactics?

Answer some of those and you'll answer your own question.

Anyway, Pedro is a decent character, nothing too flashy. Though I and others do like scoring units, it's not the end all and be all of things.

Sanctjud wrote:
I would want to say a rhino cause you can focus on tank shocking to bunch up the enemy.

IMO 250ish points of sterngaurd are quite expensive to trust in a 35pt rhino.
I would gate Libby with a pod rather?

I'd trust them to a rhino before putting them with the librarian.

"lets teleport, and then bunch up into a template shape!"

god, i've never seen that end well. sure, they teleport and get their rapid fire off, but then they are vaporized.

@adielubbe:
Well, one doesn't HAVE to purchase 10 Sternguard.
Wouldn't a gate libby/pod be more dangerous than a rhino?

They are exposed for at least a turn when they arrive and can die to poor scatterings (off the board is still possible if you have to get 'that' close for flamers), in addition to that the power itself could kill a guy and then after they arrive through gate, they are in wonderful pie plate formation.

Also, what happens if the opponent doesn't set up any exposed infantry, that means you need to spend more points to get another pod to hold them in reserve to come in later...which can be better or worse if they come in later...

/shrug. Both have pros and cons. I like the pod for the alpha strike, but there are far too many mech armies (at least in my area) to warrent their immediate arrival.

Mech rhinos is a pretty standard thing. Rhino-fying sterns adds another rhino to saturation and the stern can perform 'counter-shoot' role...

Just a different approach to them.
Podding Sterns can work well...

adielubbe wrote:

Sanctjud wrote:
I would want to say a rhino cause you can focus on tank shocking to bunch up the enemy.

IMO 250ish points of sterngaurd are quite expensive to trust in a 35pt rhino.
I would gate Libby with a pod rather?

And make them targetable?
9 Sternguard + GoI libby in rhino (in case it blows up) is better than the pod variant. If you want to survive that is.

Sure you can hurt a lot in the first turn getting out of the pod. But if your in flamer range, then they will kill or assault you in their turn.
And many people claim you cannot use GoI when stuck in melee.

Seriously thought, every time I've drop podded sternguard, they haven't survived past turn 1.

Guess the enemy just sees my lists and piles up a bit, or stays in reserve in DoW missions. Drop podding down when theres no enemies around, or when all enemies are at one place will make your sternguard do nothing or die.

IMO ;P

Guess I'll use a rhino

What heavy support is best. I'm using CC termies, so edging towards land raider, but what else should I take. It's a heavily shooty army.