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So I know the title is well ummm harsh, but I was pondering this on my drive into work this mourning(3 accidents on the interstate I had plenty of time). I was thinking about when I had a TON more toys in my closet of forge world, GW, FOW you name it I probably had it, and how my life was at the time. I then thought about some of my friends and this is what kicked this all off. One of them the other day was so happy I turned him onto Gorgon Studios he went and flat out bought the Spartan Package. Now he like many other gamers is an impulse buyer of sorts. My other friends used to do the same, but now they are married and buying models is sadly on the low priority list.

Then I considered my FLGS that I have been a part of in my travels across the country, and thought hrmm, "all of the people who had the coolest stuff were single, and 7 times out of 10 lived at home with mom". First off I am not a fan of my morther nor do I ever wish to live in Illinois again in my life if I can help it, but I thought this was a question worth posing, Does the more models you have, make you a bigger failure at life itself?

Now when I owned a games store in Oregon I noticed the guys who bought more models and stuff were the ones who didn't have relationships, home payments, or all around major bills. I for one have a wedding im paying for(my own), a house payment(well worth it), insurance, taxes, dogs, etc etc etc. and I have MAJORLY cut back on buying models. Long ago is the day I could walk into a game store and drop a few hundred a month. Im lucky if I can swing $20.00 a month now because I feel the need to save every penny. Thank god for trading sites, and doing commissions otherwise I wouldn't be able to afford much of my hobby. Now their is exceptions to every rule, hell my uncle lives in a 6000 sq ft home in IL and is a VP of a banking Corp. so ya his hobby fund is HUGE, but what about the rest of you? I want to hear what you think fellow dakkites!

No no I fail at life for entirely different reasons unrelated to how many models I own.

Model count has little to do with it. After my relation ended I found myself buying a bit more than when I wasn't alone, but not in those splurges like I used to.

Seems kind of like a troll post to me...

The guy living in mom's basement spending all of his money on tabletop gaming might call the quality of life of someone who has so many bills that they can't afford a hobby into question also.

There's probably some curve you could draw using total responsibilities (your indication of success at life apparently), free cash to spend on a hobby, and amount of that cash spent typically spent on wargaming. You'd probably find that you first assertion: that low responsibility and moderate free cash flow commonly equals lots of money spent on wargaming. Then I would also expect that high responsibility and low cash flow would result in less money spent on wargaming.

There's also typically a point at which the cash flow gets high enough that it starts going into more expensive hobbies, instead of wargaming.

I think you're making generalizations.

I'm married, own my own home, have an excellent job, have several hobbies, of which wargaming is only one, and I'm able to afford them all, while putting my wife through college and not accumulating further debt.

I've enjoyed many rich life experiences, such as riding my motorcycle across the country, visiting many national parks and beautiful places, and seeing a lot of wildlife along the way. I've seen bears, mountain lions, big horn sheep, and eagles, all in their natural habitats.

In short, I don't see myself as a 'failure at life' because I've got a job that allows me to drop a few grand on toy soldiers each year.

Sure, I've seen people make poor decisions. But I've also seen people make responsible ones. In my gaming group, we're mostly older (30+) guys. All but one of us are either married or soon will be, we're all college graduates with full-time jobs. We get together regularly to have a few beers and unwind, much like others would treat a bowling league. I don't see why this should be thought of as failing at life.

I don't see how this is different from any other hobby.

I'd bet the guy who spends the most on his car is either single with no external obligations or very wealthy.

When you are single, you have more time to spend obsessing over what you want, which tends to lead you to actually do it. And when you have no external obligations, you have the money to spend.

I don't see how this makes anyone a failure. It just means that they have the time and money to enjoy their hobbies, regardless of what they are.

Model count is a function based on disposible income over time

Where [i] is disposable income, [t] is time, and [c] is model count the equation would look like so

it=c

the function gets more complicated when you consider longer periods of time, such as someone who gets a new job, or loses portions of disposable income.

(i(sub1)t(sub1))+(i(sub2)t(sub2))=c

Because of this, someone could have been a total failure at life in an earlier portion of his life (sub1) then later on become more traditionally "successful" (sub2) and still have a higher model count than someone who is just an "average" failure (the first equation)

My model count is up in the thousands, I have been collecting for a long time. I am happy, have my own place, a girlfriend, a stable job, 2 cars (including a porsche) and I spend very little money on the hobby.

@redbeard: I am not trying to generalize, just morebring up a question that I was thinking of this mourning. I have driven across country to(twice in fact though the second was for a move, Oregon to Boston in 3 1/2 days YA that sucked), I have a expensive car that I bought a few years back, but I am curious what everyone else thought of this.

Granted I know the more free time the less responcibilities the more one tends to play. I work full time for the Gov't, and all sorts of other junk and yes I enjoy my hobbies. Hell I am getting back into firearms again as I love shooting. My little women and I travel with our dogs, not like others but we do get a trip in here and their, but what im asking is what is everyones take on this. I am by no account trying to flame people, or knock on my friend for random shopping(would be rather hypocritical), but more provoke some thought and see peoples reactions? Not trying to start a war just disscussion.

I think you are thinking of it backwards. Just because they have alot of models doesn't mean they are single, but perhaps being single may mean they have more models.

Take someone who has an average paying job. If they live with their parents they may not be paying for food, rent, bills, etc. Thus more money to spend on hobbies.

Someone who is single is not spending money on their girlfriend and probably rents. Not as much expendable income, but still a bit.

Someone who is married probably has many expenses to take care of first before other hobbies. Not only that, but their significant other probably doesn't let them spend all their money on these hobbies either.

So I believe it is the other way around. If you are single or living with your parents, then you probably just have more money to spend on the hobby.

To put it simply, no!

I have a ton of GW and FW stuff, lots of miniatures by other companies and old stuff like Heroquest. I also have a bunch of action figures stored away.

I consider myself a success. I have just got engaged and am getting married next year, I have great freinds, am soon changing jobs to become a partner in a specialist building and construction firm. I own my own house, have a fairly new car. I have good health and enjoy my free time and my hobby.

Some people will tell you that painting little toy soldiers is sad and for loosers, but think about it this way. Thier hobbies are probably going to the pub most weekends and getting faced. What do they have to show for it? Nothing. So in my book that makes them the loosers.

At first glance, I really thought the OP was being arrogant, then I thought he was being pitiful because he was no longer able to spend like he used to. I don't think this is a troll post, just an observation that really has no truth behind it.

If you're measuring certain individuals' 'success' based on how they measure up to you or you're own standard of living; I'd say you really need to get off your high horse.

Success or Failure at life is not measured by the number of miniatures you own. Or for that matter, Vintage cars, works of Art, balls of lint or anything that would be a 'hobby'.

Rymafyr wrote:
Success or Failure at life is not measured by the number of miniatures you own. Or for that matter, Vintage cars, works of Art, balls of lint or anything that would be a 'hobby'.

Or maybe it is? its all based on opinion.

Lessee...

Happily married for 21 years? yup
Wife games alongside me (RPG, TTG, cards)? yup
Good jobs? yup (I work teaching reading skills to at risk students, and do Library duties; wife is a Clinical Educator)
Models? Oh, probably between 10,000 to 12,000...

Of course, I've been collecting since 1980, and my wife since 88, so we've had lots of time to buy, but I've never considered owning lots of models to be a failure...

so can we add "Does owning several cars/snowmobiles/quads/jetskis make you a failure in life, too?" Same expenditure from what I can see...
Or how about having too many golf clubs, and the time to hit the links every weekend? Hmm... nope, still not really a failure from my point of view. See how silly the question really seems?

-Vilegrimm

I have a ton of models, then again I am young and have little choice but to live at home so.


I have a gf too, so thats not a bad start me thinks.

Rymafyr wrote:At first glance, I really thought the OP was being arrogant, then I thought he was being pitiful because he was no longer able to spend like he used to. I don't think this is a troll post, just an observation that really has no truth behind it.

If you're measuring certain individuals' 'success' based on how they measure up to you or you're own standard of living; I'd say you really need to get off your high horse.

Success or Failure at life is not measured by the number of miniatures you own. Or for that matter, Vintage cars, works of Art, balls of lint or anything that would be a 'hobby'.

Not trying to be any of the above just curious what people think. Honestly Im happy with my life as it is, I love my fiance, my dogs, and honestly my job. I love getting up in the mourning and going to work, and utterly hate unemployment (hence I enjoy being a work a holic). I get time to paint every night except on sundays thats family day for me no gamming what so ever. I am not trying to deface people who live at home since it seems I need to restate this as people don't want to actually read all the post just assume. I am just curious on peoples thoughts as I was wondering this mourning about such things. As I even showed I know people who are the complete opposites to this philosphy and thats cool. I am just attempting to either put validation to the thought or disporve it. I am not on any high horse believe me, as I love what I have, and am not upset with the gaming going down a bit hell thats life. I know have more responcibilities and absolutely love them and am not upset by this at all. I still get my fix, but yet again I was curious what others thought. Next time read all the posts before you condem others.

@squilvine: I agree I know a number of people whose hobbies is to go out to bars, and they have nothing to show for it so I agree with you their.

Similar possition, wife (who has been playing longer then I have!), kids, home, good job (which I only hate sometimes, but doesn't everyone) and a 19ft £5000 log cabin chock full of models, rpg's and games.

Failure? Nope, but then again what is a failure? By who's definition?

He who dies with the most toys wins!!!

Living near 3 different military (Air Force and 2 Army) bases and having 3 colleges right here in town, you see a lot of military guys buying plastic models. I am not sure that these men would be considered losers. Many of them are not only trained and professional soldiers, but they are also husbands and fathers. Aside from plastic models, soldiers do other "nerdy things" like play in the SCA, Civil War, and WW2 reenactments. A few of them even take part in cosplay, such as Star Wars Jedi and Storm Troopers.

Personally, I fall into the faithfully married/loving father category, who was a paintball and airsoft player and event organizer, until an illness prevented regular participation in the two sports. I also fall into the "worked his A$$ off since he was 14 years old" category, having worked in landscaping and maintenance, retail sales and management, residential and commercial construction, horse ranching, and the public and private health field sectors. Not only do I consider myself a collector of plastic models, I also consider myself not a loser... but then, most people don't consider themselves losers. LOL

When I worked and managed retail, some of the biggest customers of paintball supplies where teenagers who never earned a dollar in their live. Their rich mommies and daddies would simply write a check or run a card for "X" amount. Most of these kids where crap players and had absolutely no since of teamwork or self worth. In my opinion, it is these kids that are coming out on bottom. As a kid, I probably would have envied them, but as an adult, I see the sadness in knowing that they have no concept in the value of working hard and earning what you have. IMHO, these are the real losers... So, in a way, I suppose you might be right. But, it isn't a matter of having the models and toys, but rather how you come about having them that matters.

I hardly think that branding someone a failure based solely on their enjoyment of a hobby is fair.

I've actually found some of the so called 'failures at life' to be some really decent, and intelligent people. They may have personal reasons for staying at home, caring for ill parents for example, or they've found it hard to find a job.

I know people who're so dedicated to music that they've spent thousands of pounds on equipment, play in a band thats well known locally, but frankly aren't going anywhere and as far as I know, aren't getting a record deal any time soon. They still live with their parents. By your reckoning, they're a failure at life. Would you agree? Because I sure don't.

@two-step: very interesting point, and I like where your heading with this. Not so much in the amount as it is by the means you got it with. Hmmm solid reasoning if I ever do say so myself.

I would tend to agree that those who have everything done for them don't know the true pleasure in being able to do something yourself. As for the military well soldier tend to spend rather mmm uncontrollably(years of personal experience). What is meant is if you have on post housing your bills are pretty much zilch thus enabling you to spend on hobbies at will. I will admit a lot of my battle buddies played warhammer, and collected firearms. We all went out to dinner at least 3 times a week, and did ummm games for money that involed some very mean things to fat women, inbetween paydays. So soldiers are a different genre.

Now yes I know success can be measured in many things, but lets set some agreeable guides shall we so as to help everyone understand this question a little better. Im refering to those intheir mid to late 20's and higher still living home with mom and dad working some cheap job and spending all their cash on models. Maybe this helps to convey the question a little clearer.

Lets keep hearing your ideal dakka it's filling up my day and I am enjoying everyones take on all of this.

@Marushi: Ok I think some of you are taking this as "IF YOU DONT MAKE X AMOUNT AND DO THIS THEN YOU SUCK AT LIFE" this is not what im saying hell several of my close friends fall into this category and I never knock them for their lives. Hell I help them any chance I get because thats what friends do and we all fall on bad times. Not the point I am shooting towards at all.

OMG...

The bottom line here is that it's all about priorities. I'm just going to leave it at that.

oni wrote:OMG...

The bottom line here is that it's all about priorities. I'm just going to leave it at that.

Thank you, simplistic answer that says it all!

iT depends on what your goals are and how you measure success, IMO.
i think you can be a huge failure and not own a single model. and also own everyone your heart desires and be just as much of a failure.

All but two or three of the gamers i know are married or engaged or have a partner or have/had a girlfriend. If you wanted more support on this a gamers forum is not the best place to get it.

Empchild wrote: Does the more models you have, make you a bigger failure at life itself?

Empchild wrote: I am not on any high horse believe me

Really? You make a post, expressly for the purpose of discussing who has or doesn't have a life, based on the amount of models they own, and you're not looking down on anyone? It sounds like you're projecting like crazy.

Also, the word you are looking for is 'there', not 'their'. There is a difference.

You do make some very good points. But of course, who determines what failing at life is and what it isn't? Is being single an automatic FAIL at life? That suggests that every person must have a mate, and I am not sure that's true. Same re: house. Sure, for some it is a mark of success, but is a person a failure for not owning a house?

Anyway, if you think a gamer is a loser for doing what he loves - gaming and painting, then the question's sort of loaded from the start.

But if the gamer is lonely and feels like a failure and is dumping all his ambition into painting and playing as a substitute for the love he's missing (some probably do) then you make a good point.

Then again, if I was single and lonely, thank god for GW to tide me over on BIG FUN through the dry spells. Long Live the Emperor!

Vengis wrote:

Empchild wrote: Does the more models you have, make you a bigger failure at life itself?

Empchild wrote: I am not on any high horse believe me

Really? You make a post, expressly for the purpose of discussing who has or doesn't have a life, based on the amount of models they own, and you're not looking down on anyone? It sounds like you're projecting like crazy.

Also, the word you are looking for is 'there', not 'their'. There is a difference.

"There" is when describing a place "Their" is a person and where are you even getting this from. Look up those in a dictionary then come back. Also not casting judgement yet again so read the whole forum before you cast judgement. Because all you are doing is trolling atm. Also Solorg good points you made.

Age: 39
Collecting Since: 19
Job: Fat Cat banker
Hobby Budget: High 4 figures (including Cons)
Family: Married (to a doctor) w/ 3 kids (5, 4, and 2)
Time to hobby(games and painting): limited
TT Miniature Game systems Active today: 6
Model count: STUPID HIGH.

Am I a failure? No. Do I have delusions of how much I can get painted and play with? Certainly.

Empchild wrote:"There" is when describing a place "Their" is a person and where are you even getting this from. Look up those in a dictionary then come back. Also not casting judgement yet again so read the whole forum before you cast judgement. Because all you are doing is trolling atm.

Empchild wrote:@squilvine: I agree I know a number of people whose hobbies is to go out to bars, and they have nothing to show for it so I agree with you their.

Emphasis mine. Still pretty sure this is just a troll thread, yet I'm also still posting...

ahh thank you Moz didn't realize I did that. I can see why you think troll thread but it is a disscussion and was as I state yet again something I was pondering this morning and wondered what others thoughts were on this subject.

LOL I didn't realize this was an english class. So what if... (they're...oops I mean their.....ummm nope that's not it either) there are mistakes, like looser instead of loser or mourning instead of morning.

IMO the question is too subjective. If you just want to complain about those kids or adults that spend all of their money or parent's money of models instead of learning the value of hard work then maybe the question should be reworded.

If we are keeping score though, here is mine.

Job = nope. (failure I guess) I have been laid off and now going back to school for a masters in teaching.

Girlfriend = nope (failure again) My wife would kill me if I had a girlfriend. I would never do that to her or my two boys.

House and Cars = yes (failure again... at least when I look at the bills )

Models = yes, more than most people but less than a lot of gamers. (maybe failure again)

Do I consider myself a failure? Not at all, I love my life.