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Well, time for a short rant: This guy I play a lot is cheating. A lot. And being a jerk about it. For example, we were playing DOW and he had two 30 man squads of Ork Boys and a Warboss (with Nob retinue). I put out my Chaplain, a tac squad, and a scout squad. I walked on my other troops, however he insisted they had to be in reserves so I had to roll to get them in. I denied it, even showed him the rules, but he refused to believe. He said it wasn't applicable because I had an Edition Four rulebook. He refused to play me until I rolled for my men to come out of reserves. Slightly frustrated, I continued to play and was eventually able to Deep Strike my Terminators directly in front of his men. His shooting phase ended up killing one of them, but after I charged them in, he threw stickbombs which makes him "ignore charge bonus." He then shot into combat with his Big Mek's "Special Shockgun." I demanded to see his codex, but he would not allow it. I then went to go check the store's copy of the Ork Codex, and when I returned, my tac squad was out of range of the objective they've been in base contact with for one turn. These are but a few of the rules he broke, and I just said he won and left after he clearly moved my troops out of range of the objective's range.

Has anyone else had problems with cheaters? This was my first experience playing a cheater.

Hmm , it might be possible to shoot into combat with the Shock Attack Gun , Page 35 under the "Gah!" rule.
I could be wrong though , not saying he isnt cheating or anything.

Is 4th edition rule book the latest one by any chance?

Simple solution: get new rulebook, and tell him "Listen , I dont play against fething CHEATERS" loudly so no one plays this dumbass

5th edition is the current edition, you should get that book. If you want so save some money you can just buy the black reach version from battlewagon bits.
The other things seem like cheating though. Make sure to call him out on his cheating when he does it.

First off, why would you continue to subject yourself to this kind of beating?

If he continues to cheat, stop playing him unless he's the only person at the gaming store then I feel sorry for you.

Second, from my understanding as an ork player, you can hit units that are locked in combat only if the blast scatters into them. You cannot fire the blast at the locked unit so you have to place the template on an open unit and if it happens to scatter into the aforementioned locked unit, tough luck for both players.

Third, stikkbombs only work for units that are assaulting through cover meaning the boyz do not take an initiative penalty hit when they assault through cover. It has nothing to do with the +1 Attack for charging bonus.

I have encountered several cheaters whether it be their fault or they misinterpreted the rules, you can only count on yourself so read up and learn the rules. I usually jot down all the discrepancies while playing the game in a notebook and for the sake of moving the game along I'll let the other player have his way as long as it's not outlandish, then later that night I go home and read up on what I thought sounded fishy. That way the same guy can't pull the same crap again and if he does I am there to call him out on it.

Lastly, if you are playing ultramarines and using the 4th ed codex, you are in the wrong.

problem was, he didn't see the guy moving his tac squad. although the stikkbomb thing is blatant cheating.

Tell me about it, some people seem to think land raider redeemers flamecannon can hit a unit on top of a bastion .... just floating the template 6" above the cannon, like wtf? you need the thin end touching your cannon, it doesnt matter if you elect to shoot at a unit on a different floor ....

mon-keigh slayer wrote:Tell me about it, some people seem to think land raider redeemers flamecannon can hit a unit on top of a bastion .... just floating the template 6" above the cannon, like wtf? you need the thin end touching your cannon, it doesnt matter if you elect to shoot at a unit on a different floor ....

Have you ever seen that subway fire? how the fire spread from the tunnel into the station within seconds?
Its possible. ( atleast it makes sense )

He said something about a 4th edition rulebook, true, but in Dawn of War you don't actually roll for the units coming on the table the first turn, it just says they move on from the edge of the table like units moving in from reserves. They aren't actually being held in reserve so they don't need to be rolled for, they come in automatically from the table edge.

That's how I've always played it, anyway. I didn't see anyone say anything about it yet, so...

I beg to differ.....

The guy you were playing sounds like a complete chod.

I have seen all manner of cheating behaviour, from loaded dice through to major abuse of the "counts as" scenario

The best thing to do is politely tell them you no longer wish to play the game, let them take that as they have won if neccesary, pack up your miniatures and walk away.

If it happens at a competative game, i.e. tournament then call over a judge to give a ruling.

I played a BT player somewhat recently, and he claimed whenever one of his Black Templar Marines dies, he could move 2d6" forward. That certainly put me at a disadvantage, since I was playing Tau. Not 100%, but I think he was pulling shenanigans.

I also played a kid who switched around which side I was outflanking on (After I clearly said that left =1,2; right=3,4; 5,6 I choose), so the roll of 4 that should have let me assault and do something worthwhile turned into him making me put them on the wrong side and standing out in the open to be assaulted next turn by outflanking flayed ones.

You need to remember that you are playing the game for fun, especially in a one off game. I would make it a point to not play this guy again as he was pretty blatent with his cheating. Guys like that are bad for the stores and the community as they tend to blow people out and into some other hobby. Let the store know what the guy did so they can keep an eye on him.

Most of what he did was ass-hattery and inexcusable. He knew he was cheating.

I have to agree with fish... if it is not fun, and you know the fella to be cheating then why do it?

ssREV wrote:I played a BT player somewhat recently, and he claimed whenever one of his Black Templar Marines dies, he could move 2d6" forward. That certainly put me at a disadvantage, since I was playing Tau. Not 100%, but I think he was pulling shenanigans.

Black Templar Player here. yeah, he's doing that wrong. Whether reading it wrong, or cheating.

The rule is called Righteous Zeal. Ask him to let you read that section in his book.

Basically, if one of his units loses even a single model in the shooting phase (not his assault troops with the jump packs, though), he has to make a leadership check. This is the same check that everyone else has to make if they take 25% casualties. If he fails, he falls back as normal. If he passes, then he consolidates towards the closest unit 1d6". Crusader Seals let him reroll that distance. You only get to do this once per unit per shooting phase, as it is resolved at the end. Futher, make sure he falls back if/when he fails. I always seem to fail when near my own board edge...

All I can say is that if you are not familar with the rules or certain aspects of them, then you can't call someone out for cheating, if you know they are cheating then you obviously do understand key elements to know that what he was doing was not quite right. That said, him not showing you the codex to confirm a rule may not be out of order, but I'd be pretty dam miffed if it was done across me as it would only serve to make you believe that he was indeed cheating.

You do definatly need to get the 5th Ed rulebook and if you are able to use the models then buying the Black Reach is a good way to go. A plan I had was to buy all the codex's so I could read them and then I'd know if someone wasn't playing right, but that would cost a lot of money and would mean remembering a ton of rules so don't think its worth it. It took me ages to realise that a so-called friend of mine was cheating with the "Feel No Pain" rule, my own fault for not being able to check it and trusting him. Ah well

My advice is to seek other players instead, and if you do play him again make sure your armed with the full rulebook and if you intend to buy another army then consider buying a codex for your opponents army too.

As far as I'm aware (can someone give Gwar! a shout to confirm?) the ONLY way to shoot into a combat is if something scatters, and this applies to any weapon in the game, so him targeting you with his SAG (I'll take it that's what he was using, if not its another cheat) is totally bogus.

I have, rather fortunately never played someone who would commit such heinous acts of douchebaggery as this, and hope that I never will, my gaming group is pretty sound in this department.

Sorry, but I didn't address the original topic with my post.

As HellsGuardian and others have said:

1. Get the 5th edition rule book and latest Space Marine Codex.
2. Anyone can screw up, so don't assume cheating. Our entire gaming group thought that the Preferred Enemy rule also allowed rerolls against vehicles for a year before someone looked it up.
3. If a player refused to let me look at a rule from his codex that I wasn't familiar with, I'd probably not play that person again. That's just poor sportsmanship.
4. If someone purposely broke my model, he'd be buying me a new one. If he refused, I'd call the police. I spend a minimum of 3 hours on each of my minis assembling, cleaning, and painting. I'd make sure that an additional $20 per hour was included in the reimbursement. Further, he'd never play me again, even at a tournament. That is bull crap.

I'm sorry you played a poor sport, but don't let that turn you off to an otherwise fun game.

As far as I am aware, not model or weapon may purposfully shoot into a combat. The only way as said by "Leigen_Zero" is for the weapon to have scattered which the Shock Attack is able to do to a fashion. So if that was the case then no cheating in that case.

EDIT Forgot to mention in previous post.
He may not have been full blown cheating but he did strike me as not being a good sportsman. If I had been in his place I'd gladly shown you the rule.

For me, the game would have ended once he insisted upon a 'reserve roll' after I had shown him the rules telling him otherwise. At that point it was clear he was a cheater, and there is no reason to continue the game.

If pressed, I would have loudly said "I don't play with blatant cheaters" as I removed my minis from the table.

Given the plethora of specialty rules - and GW's generally poor track record with editing them - there is plenty of room for misinterpretation. But not showing someone your codex so they can read the rules themselves is another sign of a potential cheater, IMO. Especially if what you want to do runs contrary to the overall rules of the game (say, shooting into combat and the like).

Courtesy would dictate that if one player asks "what is that you're doing" and then didn't understand something stated in the rules, you would then be able to pull out your codex and show the rule, thus clarifying the situation. The moment the other player refused to do so effectively would have ended the game as he shows a lack of decorum and propensity for douche-baggery.

Or we could keep playing and I would have my own "special invisibility rule" meaning he can't shoot at any of my units more than 6 inches away and they get a 2+ save. If he said that wasn't true, I'd tell him the rule is in my codex and no he can't see it. Many cheaters can dish it out but can't take it. And then tell him to move out of his mom's basement and use deoderant for once!

were you playing a 4th edition game? if not were you making sure to do wound allocation, true line of sight(i actually know lots of people in my store who dont do this, i called someone out in an apocalypse game on wound allocation and he said "no i dont thats an OPTION!" i was like "wtf!")?

also nwxt time you go to look away from the table say this:

"I know EXACTLY were ALL of THE MODELS ON THE TABLE ARE, IF ONE SINGLE MODEL HAS BEEN MOVED THEN YOU AUTO LOSE! DO YOU UNDERSTAND!" (caps are the bits you say with a bit of menace to make him think/know you mean it).

You should have packed your stuff away when he refused to follow the deployment rules in the mission. The grenade thing is cheating, as is shooting into combat.
Good call leaving after he moved your troops.
I really fail to see how that could be fun for the other guy. What a loser.

lord marcus wrote:problem was, he didn't see the guy moving his tac squad. although the stikkbomb thing is blatant cheating.

Only a D-bag defends a D-bag.

Why waste time or energy sweating this guy.

The guys is a cheater, and sounds like he may have a personality disorder to boot. I'd tell him to Feth off and never play him again. Problem solved.

Tangential to the topic, but there are rules for firing into a combat in the rulebook (p 273, 'Shooting into close combat') but this only applies to games with three or more forces.

mon-keigh slayer wrote:Tell me about it, some people seem to think land raider redeemers flamecannon can hit a unit on top of a bastion .... just floating the template 6" above the cannon, like wtf? you need the thin end touching your cannon, it doesnt matter if you elect to shoot at a unit on a different floor ....

A flamer template may fire one level higher or lower. Was it one level higher or lower? I'm pretty sure there's even an illustration of them "hovering" the template in the rulebook.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

mon-keigh slayer wrote:Tell me about it, some people seem to think land raider redeemers flamecannon can hit a unit on top of a bastion .... just floating the template 6" above the cannon, like wtf? you need the thin end touching your cannon, it doesnt matter if you elect to shoot at a unit on a different floor ....

A flamer template may fire one level higher or lower. Was it one level higher or lower? I'm pretty sure there's even an illustration of them "hovering" the template in the rulebook.

and I'm pretty sure that only applies to ruins anyway.

In fact..if it was directly beneath the building I find it hard to believe that it even had LOS to the units on top as well unless they were hanging off the edge.

If troops are walking on from the board edge as from reserves then they do count as moving, that should be obvious. And if you're playing 40K with 5th edition rules you obviously need the current rule book as there are many differences between 4th and 5th edition. That said, if the person is not fun to play with that problem is soluble, simply don't play games with him any longer. That too should be obvious.

Not sure if anyone has pointed this out yet, but he also cheated you on deployment. If you were playing Dawn of War, you only get two troops and an HQ. Warbosses cannot get retinues. So he deployed an extra unit on you on top of everything else (that is, if I read that correct, 2 boyz mobs, warboss + nobz).

Shooting into combat? Seriously? The 5th Ed rulebook explicitly states that you can NEVER fire directly into combat. What a tosser.