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Beasts of war just put a very interesting video about this.

I can't find anything in the rule book where a 1 is always a failure either.

Which means that a str 10 weapon would always penetrate on armor 10.

Does anyone have any additional insight into this?

A roll of one is only always a failure in situations the rulebook specifically says it is (as in the saving throw rules).

A general '1 always fails' rule would be a confusing one if it existed (if I roll a 1 for movement do I not move?, etc.).
STR10 does indeed always penetrate armor 10 on a hit.

gannam wrote:Beasts of war just put a very interesting video about this.

I can't find anything in the rule book where a 1 is always a failure either.

Which means that a str 10 weapon would always penetrate on armor 10.

Does anyone have any additional insight into this?

No, a Roll of one is NOT always a Failure.
it is only always a failure where it explicitly states that it is always a Failure.

So yes, S10 always Penetrates Armour 10. And if 1 was always a failure, it would cause a Pime Taradox with Characteristic tests, which always succeed on a 1

I've always played it that s10 against av10 meant an auto pen...

Orkestra wrote:I've always played it that s10 against av10 meant an auto pen...

Good, because it always* has been

*5th edition anyway, cba checking 1st through 4th.

Kharn is immune.

Fortunately, for me 'always' is 'since fifth edition'.

Though I'm sure that some veterans can tell me about the 'good old days' when a weapon with a strength of 10 would 'cause critical damage' on a 'vehicles main body armour with an angle of 45 degrees' if you could roll 57-89 on a d100.

Mr. Mayhem wrote:Kharn is immune.

I see what you did there

However, not 100% true. If he is alone, rolls of 1 to hit still miss.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Orkestra wrote:Fortunately, for me 'always' is 'since fifth edition'.

Though I'm sure that some veterans can tell me about the 'good old days' when a weapon with a strength of 10 would 'cause critical damage' on a 'vehicles main body armour with an angle of 45 degrees' if you could roll 57-89 on a d100.

It was a D36 actually

gannam wrote:Beasts of war just put a very interesting video about this.

I can't find anything in the rule book where a 1 is always a failure either.

Which means that a str 10 weapon would always penetrate on armor 10.

Does anyone have any additional insight into this?

In the case of armour penetration, there is no limitation. So a S10 hit vs AV10 is automatically a Penetrating hit, since you can´t roll less than 11.

Other cases, see:
- Pg 6. Saves can´t be better than 2+.
- Pg 17. Roll To-Hit of "1" always misses.
- Pg 19. Roll To-Wound of "1" always fails to cause a Wound.

I dont think it says anything about reserves always failing to come on when needing a roll of 1+, thus if you have bonuses to your reserve roll, you can come in automaticly. It may have in 4th ed, however.

Eldar Autarchs, being tactical geniuses, make their own Reserve rolls fail on roll of 1.

Whoever put that restriction on the eldar must have been a tactical geniu... CREEEEEEDDDDD!!!!!

Sorry (just read the Creed meme in general discussion!)... but yeah I suppose Autarchs have the only bonus to reserves that makes them autofail on a 2+?

DevianID wrote:but yeah I suppose Autarchs have the only bonus to reserves that makes them autofail on a 2+?

How do you figure that?

Sorry, on a 1+... my bad

They autofail on a 1. A 1+ is all possible outcomes.

gannam wrote:Beasts of war just put a very interesting video about this.

I can't find anything in the rule book where a 1 is always a failure either.

Which means that a str 10 weapon would always penetrate on armor 10.

Does anyone have any additional insight into this?

BS of 6 or higher sets up a special circumstance where a 1 is not an auto-fail

visavismeyou wrote:

gannam wrote:Beasts of war just put a very interesting video about this.

I can't find anything in the rule book where a 1 is always a failure either.

Which means that a str 10 weapon would always penetrate on armor 10.

Does anyone have any additional insight into this?

BS of 6 or higher sets up a special circumstance where a 1 is not an auto-fail

1 is a fail, they just get a reroll if they fail, they can still roll a 1 after that.

Demogerg wrote:

visavismeyou wrote:

gannam wrote:Beasts of war just put a very interesting video about this.

I can't find anything in the rule book where a 1 is always a failure either.

Which means that a str 10 weapon would always penetrate on armor 10.

Does anyone have any additional insight into this?

BS of 6 or higher sets up a special circumstance where a 1 is not an auto-fail

1 is a fail, they just get a reroll if they fail, they can still roll a 1 after that.

Wrong. The re-roll replaces the 1, you do not roll a 1, fail, and then re-roll. You roll a 1, then get to re-roll and have a chance to fail on the re-roll, the re-roll is a replacement effect meaning that the "would be fail" never happens. Look at the interaction of "Gets Hot" and re-rolling, if you're right, you'd take the wound from Gets Hot, then get to re-roll; clearly this is not the case. Remember, rules are like lines of a program.

visavismeyou wrote:

Demogerg wrote:

visavismeyou wrote:

gannam wrote:Beasts of war just put a very interesting video about this.

I can't find anything in the rule book where a 1 is always a failure either.

Which means that a str 10 weapon would always penetrate on armor 10.

Does anyone have any additional insight into this?

BS of 6 or higher sets up a special circumstance where a 1 is not an auto-fail

1 is a fail, they just get a reroll if they fail, they can still roll a 1 after that.

Wrong. The re-roll replaces the 1, you do not roll a 1, fail, and then re-roll. You roll a 1, then get to re-roll and have a chance to fail on the re-roll, the re-roll is a replacement effect meaning that the "would be fail" never happens. Look at the interaction of "Gets Hot" and re-rolling, if you're right, you'd take the wound from Gets Hot, then get to re-roll; clearly this is not the case. Remember, rules are like lines of a program.

Semantics dragon strikes!
http://sos345.org/images/semantics.gif

He is correct, but the result is the same really.

A roll of one is always a roll of a base one.

Demogerg wrote:

visavismeyou wrote:

gannam wrote:Beasts of war just put a very interesting video about this.

I can't find anything in the rule book where a 1 is always a failure either.

Which means that a str 10 weapon would always penetrate on armor 10.

Does anyone have any additional insight into this?

BS of 6 or higher sets up a special circumstance where a 1 is not an auto-fail

1 is a fail, they just get a reroll if they fail, they can still roll a 1 after that.

Not exactly the whole truth, but close enough for government work.

Anyone missing the obvious...like...leadership tests, and stat tests where ones come in handy?

Xenith wrote:Anyone missing the obvious...like...leadership tests, and stat tests where ones come in handy?

or scatter distance

Demogerg wrote:or scatter distance

Oh it failed all right. It failed to scatter off target.

Gwar! wrote:

Orkestra wrote:Fortunately, for me 'always' is 'since fifth edition'.

Though I'm sure that some veterans can tell me about the 'good old days' when a weapon with a strength of 10 would 'cause critical damage' on a 'vehicles main body armour with an angle of 45 degrees' if you could roll 57-89 on a d100.

It was a D36 actually

I actually have one of those.
It's old, shaped oddly, made of glass, and there is neither rhyme nor reason to the numbers on it.

MagickalMemories wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Orkestra wrote:Fortunately, for me 'always' is 'since fifth edition'.

Though I'm sure that some veterans can tell me about the 'good old days' when a weapon with a strength of 10 would 'cause critical damage' on a 'vehicles main body armour with an angle of 45 degrees' if you could roll 57-89 on a d100.

It was a D36 actually

I actually have one of those.
It's old, shaped oddly, made of glass, and there is neither rhyme nor reason to the numbers on it.

^(o.0)v

Werido. I was talking about a D12*D3 for produce a Linear probability Curve of 1 - 36.

Again, Weirdo.

visavismeyou wrote:

Demogerg wrote:
1 is a fail, they just get a reroll if they fail, they can still roll a 1 after that.

Wrong. The re-roll replaces the 1, you do not roll a 1, fail, and then re-roll. You roll a 1, then get to re-roll and have a chance to fail on the re-roll, the re-roll is a replacement effect meaning that the "would be fail" never happens. Look at the interaction of "Gets Hot" and re-rolling, if you're right, you'd take the wound from Gets Hot, then get to re-roll; clearly this is not the case. Remember, rules are like lines of a program.

Flawed logic.
If the 1 wasn't a fail, there would be no reason to reroll it.

Your example with plasma isn't valid, since only the FINAL result (the reroll) matters on a reroll.

Eric

Gwar! wrote:^(o.0)v

Werido. I was talking about a D12*D3 for produce a Linear probability Curve of 1 - 36.

Again, Weirdo.

I had assumed it was a D3 for the tens and a D6 for the ones, but it was in Base 7, meaning the range of results was actually 8-27

How can you have a result of "8" in base 7? 0.0 Would that not be 11?

Interestingly enough, if you have a Twin Linked BS 6 or higher weapon, it's possible to roll three ones in a row and still hit with the shot.

Also, D12 x D3 seems like a pretty good option, but what about the prime numbers! No one ever thinks of poor old 17.

Still, at least you're using the d12. No one but Barbarians love d12s.