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So i saw the new BA codex for display in my local GW and decided to take a looksie; someone even used thier BA army twith that codex. I think its scary.

4D6" S8 AP1 lance attack psi power, 3-30 death company. DC dreads as troops.... YES AS TROOPS.... LR redeemers that deepstrike... yes DEEPSTRIKE

well i thought i was just making a fuss like everyone does when a new codex comes out; i decided to watch a game and see how it plaed out. Do you all know mephiston? he is the size of a librarian W/o Terminator armor and well...... killed nightbringer in 1 round of CC... he is on a small base but has the toughness of a monsturous screature and has the chance to (with a psi power) have 10 S10 attacks......... he does NOT have an invulnerable save but regardless!!


wtf mates; but it is pretty rad making vallina marines even more vanilla

Is it just me, or does a similar reaction happen each time a new codex appears?

Maybe it is GW who wants everyone to buy new models when a new codex comes? So that it is much more important with a huge OMG!-effect than a balanced codex. It's trite, but they are more of a miniture company than a game company, and they have stock-holders to please.

Wait two months, play a lot of games with/against BA. Then consider the question again. Right now there is not much to discuss.

I'm more excited about Baal preds being fast all the time, and using FA slots than I am about any of the new stuff.

Nothing seems to bad yet about the codex, it seems that they are finally becoming the army that they were supposed to, not the over costed, oh my god its death company then it was before.

You're right, we should quit...

damn alot of flack, i didint say anyone should quit, and i stated i wasnt trying to be one of thos eOMG new codex person. i just saw something tha was like woa intense!


chill out internets!

Is it just me, or did only Willy and Mellon make sense?

Flying Landraiders get killed just like regular Landraiders. Faster infact, because they'll be closer sooner.

Dreads as Troops is cool, especially since they still can't score. Even if they can score, they'll not be very good at taking/holding objectives.

That shooting psychic power sounds really bad. You'll see on average 13" away, to a maximum of 24 (1 in 1296 chance of that happening, if I'm not mistaken).

That psycher lacks an invul save? Hello doomed IC.

That shooting power sounds like it is a nerfed version of the warp lance that tyranid gets in units of three.

I'd love to see the BA commander trying to tell a blood-crazed dreadnought to stay and hold the all important objective hidden safely out of sight of the enemy. Imagine the vox conversation:
Dante: - Brother Arztrathod, we need you to stay here and guard this supply drop while the rest of us gets to do all the crazy berserker fighting up ahead.
Arztrathod: - BAAARGH! MUST... DRINK... BLOOD!!! *stomps off*
;-)

Hopefully DCs, dreads or not, will not be allowed to hold objectives.

4D6" S8 AP1 lance attack psi power

Situational because of the ~14" range, and by the way seemingly the only worthwile BA specific psychic power.

3-30 death company, DC dreads as troops

DC are unimpressive. In fact the best thing about them is that if you take ten you can take two scoring Dreadnoughts.

LR redeemers that deepstrike

There aren't many situations when a player is going to deep strike a Land Raider. The unit costs 500+ points total and the risk of a mishap is huge. Additionally it might come into play way too late and so suffers from every same problem as most big Tyranid deep strikers. Atleast the Nid gribblies have the inertial guidance special rule and some models that add bonuses to reserve rolls.

Do you all know mephiston?

If Mephiston costs about 250 points he's going to see a lot of use because he also brings the mandatory psychic hood to the army. The largest annual European tournament doesn't allow named characters though.

Since Mephiston has a monstrous creature's statline we should compare him to a Hive Tyrant. Mephiston is stronger in every respect pretty much. He kills more of everything, including causing instant death in the Swarmlord because of the force weapon. He has one more wound than normal Tyrants, hides in infantry units and is generally faster. He's potentially hitting 8 times per turn with a S10 I10 force weapon, rerolling hits and wounds, while also having T6 and 5 wounds and a 2+ save to fall back on. I'm very interested in the accurate points cost. Blood Dragon Vampires in space, with blood-colored weapons of bloody doom!

Is there any known info about Deep striking Land raiders, ie: they can make use of teleport homers, or locator beacons, etc...? Because a land raider deepstriking is something to laugh at otherwise, if there are enough points to take one then the table is crowded, and there's a 67% chance you'll land on something, especially with a model that large.

The flying Land Raider has gotten a lot of talk around here.

Like we needed another reason to take loads and loads of meltaguns... they must like selling that bit. The price on combi-meltas is already insane.

Assume the Land Raider drops fine, fires a few rounds off, dumps it load that assaults and wipes a squad... assuming you've castled correctly and they can't get 2 units. Now your entire army can blast away at the unit and melta the Land Raider. Fair trade? Probably.

Mellon wrote:That shooting power sounds like it is a nerfed version of the warp lance that tyranid gets in units of three.

I'd love to see the BA commander trying to tell a blood-crazed dreadnought to stay and hold the all important objective hidden safely out of sight of the enemy. Imagine the vox conversation:
Dante: - Brother Arztrathod, we need you to stay here and guard this supply drop while the rest of us gets to do all the crazy berserker fighting up ahead.
Arztrathod: - BAAARGH! MUST... DRINK... BLOOD!!! *stomps off*
;-)

Hopefully DCs, dreads or not, will not be allowed to hold objectives.

Rumor is DC can't hold objectives. And dreads can't because they're vehicles. Unless they have some sort of special rule that allows dreads to hold objectives.

I posted this in a different thread but I think it's applicable here, too:

Certainly we'll have to wait and see the codex in totality before making any judgment calls about Good/Bad, but with current info regarding squad sizes and tentative point costs, this army is going to need some serious bonuses at short range to compete with Wolves/IG/basic Marines.

50 point rhinos adds up quickly, and the new Stormraven is seriously expensive considering its short range and its AV. If it was at least front 13, I'd think it'd be an okay buy, but the shorter range of its weaponry plus AV12 means that fielding it is a huge risk; either you Reserve it with all the risks that entails or you put it on the table and risk a gazillion S7-8 shots being pointed at it T1. Immunity to additional melta dice is nice, but at AV12 you don't need melta to knock it out.

The special deepstrike rules for jump pack infantry is really nice, but small squad sizes on their 'uber' units is a problem depending on how they're costed. Even with re-rolls, you still only have 3/4 of an army on T2 fighting your opponent's entire army, and competitive players know how to deal with drop-pod-esque lists.

First glance says this book is going to require a lot of massaging to play competitively. Like the Nid codex, it definitely doesn't seem like there are obvious 'win' combos that someone can download off the Internet and just start raping face with.

Just use the same anti psy stuff that you normaly use. My DI inqusitor and his mystic friends think a deepstriking landrader is herasy. As for bid daddy vampire, No inv saves means that lashwips and bone swords will bone him.

I have got to think that Mephiston can claim an invuln save somehow. I haven't seen the codex, admittedly, but for the Lord of Death to cost a rumored 250+ points and not have even a 4+ invul is just ridiculous. "Oh boy, he kills 5 Tac Marines. And dies to a single Power Fist hit".

It'd just be too much of an oversight. Tell me if I'm wrong.

sourclams wrote:Like the Nid codex, it definitely doesn't seem like there are obvious 'win' combos that someone can download off the Internet and just start raping face with.

Which is a good thing. Same thing with the Space Wolf codex before it. I think GW is learning.

All these Inq's with mystics (shakes heads). Soon they will be gone, soon.

I'm excited about Baal's in the FA slot. I like 3 Baals and 3 Preds to present six armor 13 vehicles. As long as the group is under 660pts I think that's a good deal and a serious option.

sourclams wrote:I have got to think that Mephiston can claim an invuln save somehow. I haven't seen the codex, admittedly, but for the Lord of Death to cost a rumored 250+ points and not have even a 4+ invul is just ridiculous. "Oh boy, he kills 5 Tac Marines. And dies to a single Power Fist hit".

It'd just be too much of an oversight. Tell me if I'm wrong.

He's T 6, so that's not happening...

I need to see the fluff reason for that.

I'm more concerned if the DS stuff is really only D6" scatter & re-roll on reserves, as that would definitely make the Land Raider a threat if held in reserves. That is, if anything in reserves gets those 2 rules - is it only the jump infantry?

However, I noticed with the Space Wolves that most [most] of the units are priced reasonably for what they get, so hopefully this will still be the case with BA?

DarkHound wrote:I need to see the fluff reason for that.

Vampire lords are tough as nails.

I'm not worried about it. Venomthropes will see a nice use when that dex hits shelves

Hoodwink wrote:I'm not worried about it. Venomthropes will see a nice use when that dex hits shelves

When that Dex hits? Venoms are already worked into my list

Which is a good thing. Same thing with the Space Wolf codex before it. I think GW is learning.

Meh, the AV11 spam wolf lists are a bit "win button."

I'm glad I've been thinking about starting a Berzerker army...

Dayum, that really gives Blood Angels a real reason to be happy.

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:I'm glad I've been thinking about starting a Berzerker army...

Dayum, that really gives Blood Angels a real reason to be happy.

Yeah, Blood Angels are one of my least favorite chapters and I'm even excited about Fast, Outflanking Baal Predators with Flamestorm Cannons or Twin-linked Assault Cannons.

Ha well this thread got popular! Thinking of it without an invul save i KNOW Mephiston isn't that scary but like i mentioned i did see it take down nightbringer in CC. That DS landraider isn't too scary when you think of how many times it could mishap; and how easy it could. Rethinking anything i think 3 Baal predators with fast is a whole lot more scary, and i haven't once declared cheese, i actually like this codex. too bad im not BA

but with him being T6 nothing except a force weapon or a weapon that causes ID that can kill him.

DarthDiggler wrote:I'm excited about Baal's in the FA slot.

From what I've seen, this (Fast, Scouting Flamestorms) is the best thing in the codex. But even that comes at a serious cost -- they take up FA slots, which is where you get some of your best melta shots from.

I am most worried about mephiston...

T6, so no instant death from high strength attacks
he is Infantry with 5 wounds, so if he is hiding in a squad of 10 you are VERY unlikely to kill him with shooting.
I7 so hes almost always going first in combat
can attack with 8X S10 attacks that are likely to reroll hits+wounds, that ignore armor.

So kill him with shooting? nope, as tough as any tyranid MC, with a cover save and 10 albative wounds

Kill him in combat? nope, hes going first, hitting and wounding you 7 or 8 times at S10, if that doesnt instant kill your toons then he can just use the force weapon to ID them.

on top of all this, rumors are he costs about the same as the "uberkilly" characters like Ragnar Blackmane, who he would take out back and beat with a stick without breaking a sweat.