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I have a friend that collects orks. Now im a new player and he's more experencied, but i've haven't won a match! So how do you win against a huge horde of orks with only a handful of Space Marines? Do you charge into combat, or shoot them to a pile of ash! Also his Battewagon kills me!

Ok, I don't have much experiance with orks, but I'll offer what I can:

Autocannons are your friend: I don't beleive that orks have very heavy tanks other than Looted Lemans, so your Autocannons should be able to punch through most of his vehicles.
Lots of weak shots > few strong shots: Don't worry about taking Lascannons, unless he starts using Looted Lemans. Autocannons have two shots, but also take Heavy Bolters, which have 3.
Orks is made for krumping: Orks excell in close combat. Don't let them get into close combat.

But again, not much experiance with orks.

Heavy bolters and flamers, those are great against the orks (believe me ive got a huge ork army!). But I believe the question remains, how many points do you have to play with? If you can afford it, a dread with assault cannon and powerfist w/ heavy flamer never fails to cause carnage, as a dev squad w/ missile launchers and heavy bolters will tear your opponent a new one. I would suggest a thunderfire, but im sure that would spark some form of debate. oh and how could I forget termies, a squad or two of either type of terminator squad, if you take the shooty termies equip one with an assault cannon. okay thats about all the help I can offer for now..if i can acquire some new form of tactica for sm against orks, I will be sure to revisit this thread. Good luck!!

My advice will be fairly generic, as I don't run either army, but I suspect if you answer the questions it will help other people who see the thread to answer your questions.

If you haven't read his codex, I strongly suggest doing so. Know your opponent's rules inside and out.

What you should be doing (at least re: stand and shoot vs charge) depends on what you have, in general. Do you have a regular SM list, or SW or BA or something else? Any vehicles? What kinds of squads do you have?

Battlewagons are mainly scary from the front. Shoot them from the side and they go down much more easily. This means you want some mobile heavy firepower, which is why I mentioned vehicles.

I play Orks and IG, and i know what really hurts a horde army. Flamers and HBs. I sware, i rushed into a Space marine force of 3-4 squads of 5, and they blasted me to bits with HBs, and burned the survivors with a flamer. And my Battle wagon got shot down easily from the side (Your right Davel) so you should have vehicals or flanking power.

Slarg232 wrote:Ok, I don't have much experiance with orks, but I'll offer what I can:

Autocannons are your friend: I don't beleive that orks have very heavy tanks other than Looted Lemans, so your Autocannons should be able to punch through most of his vehicles.
Lots of weak shots > few strong shots: Don't worry about taking Lascannons, unless he starts using Looted Lemans. Autocannons have two shots, but also take Heavy Bolters, which have 3.
Orks is made for krumping: Orks excell in close combat. Don't let them get into close combat.

But again, not much experiance with orks.

Whats with the looted lemans? In the newest codex it doesn't matter what vehicle they loot it has the same stats, with front and side armor 11 which isn't scary.

When fighting orks,

With Tac squads, if the horde is large I would almost say charge unless you have multiple squads to shoot them with. This may sound crazy but if you charge him you are denying his furious charge which is key. If its a smaller unit then double tap them and watch them run away. Flamers are your friend too! As for AT weapons, I run a Vulkan list so my long range AT is non existent yet I still manage to do fine. A MM on a speeder can make short work of battle wagons and RL's work fine against trukks. I wish I would have put up a battle report of me playing against a Ghazgull list. I totally destroyed the guy (I even sweeping advanced Ghazgull!)

Bring lots of templates and blasts. Also consider a TFC. They love shooting at Orks!

For orks, the best things for marines to use are heavy bolters, assault cannons, flamers, heavy flamers, anything that will consistently chunk out at least 2 shots per turn, blasts are also very good.

A squad of devastators with 4 heavy bolters will kill around 5 orks per turn.
A squad of devastators (assuming each missile hits 4 orks) with 4 missile launchers will kill around 7.
A dreadnought with a HF, DCCW, and Assault cannon will kill around (assuming the flamer hits 5) 2 with the flamer, 1 with the cannon and 1 in combat, for a total of 4 a turn. Should it asplode after being PKed, it (assuming it's surrounded, hitting at least 6) will kill around 5.

Load up on lots of shot weaponry, and stuff that's hard to kill, and you should be good

Also, feel free to correct my math if it turns out to be complete BS

S_P

Thanks for the imput!! I'll be playing against him this weekend, so i'll tell you how it goes!

Flamers. Flamers with Vulcan hurt even more.
I play orks, and flamers can really ruin your day. On bad positioning its possible to get over 10 boys under one template. A few templates will really clear out a 30 boy squad.

(Bad positioning on the Ork part caused by terrain, assaulting a vehicle, or other poor movement choices)

Here's a little tactic for taking out those large Ork mobs with your basic troops. Take a Tactical Squad with a Flamer and a Combi-Flamer and stick them inside a Rhino. Tank Shock one of the mobs, making sure to stay away from the Nob to avoid Death or Glory, and force the mob to bulk up on one side of the Rhino. Then disembark the Tactical Squad and use those flamers. If done correctly you should be able to fit 9-10 Boys under each template, which combined with rapid firing Bolters should take out at least 15 boys.

Otherwise try using a couple of Land Speeder Typhoons, which can effectively take on both horde and mech. Against Battlewagons in particular, deploy the Typhoon towards the edge of the board so you have a better chance of shooting at side armour.

In general, Vulkan lists are your best friend against orks. Melta for the battlewaggons and flamers for the boyz.

Slarg232 wrote:Ok, I don't have much experiance with orks, but I'll offer what I can:

Autocannons are your friend: I don't beleive that orks have very heavy tanks other than Looted Lemans, so your Autocannons should be able to punch through most of his vehicles.
Lots of weak shots > few strong shots: Don't worry about taking Lascannons, unless he starts using Looted Lemans. Autocannons have two shots, but also take Heavy Bolters, which have 3.
Orks is made for krumping: Orks excell in close combat. Don't let them get into close combat.

But again, not much experiance with orks.

In the new edition of codex orks looted wagons aren't used like that. Sadly you can no longer just take enemy tanks and use them. Those were good days.
Also take a squad of storm shield termies and charge into a hoard of basic boys. Although the pk will cause problems. You will murder in combat resolution.

Actually, throw those bad boys at some Nobz and really watch him lose combat resolution. Lightning claws are going to do better against the boyz.

For every termie you lose, 1 wound for combat resolution for him. For every nob you wound with a hammer, thats 2 wounds for combat resolution for you.

Just a thought, with ork infantry pinning is your friend. Orks are easily pinned imo, and if you can use the terrain and your range to your advantage, you can really screw with an opponents plans by either forcing him to bottleneck or split his forces.

Also, a scout sniper squad with Sgt. Telion can really do some damage if you give them good positioning.

unbeliever87 wrote:Here's a little tactic for taking out those large Ork mobs with your basic troops. Take a Tactical Squad with a Flamer and a Combi-Flamer and stick them inside a Rhino. Tank Shock one of the mobs, making sure to stay away from the Nob to avoid Death or Glory, and force the mob to bulk up on one side of the Rhino. Then disembark the Tactical Squad and use those flamers. If done correctly you should be able to fit 9-10 Boys under each template, which combined with rapid firing Bolters should take out at least 15 boys.

Otherwise try using a couple of Land Speeder Typhoons, which can effectively take on both horde and mech. Against Battlewagons in particular, deploy the Typhoon towards the edge of the board so you have a better chance of shooting at side armour.

lol, that tank shock thing is so mean. TFC are great against orks.Orkses is great cannon fodder. Also, try and get your hands on a vindicator: S10 pie plate of doom!!!! and if you like drop pods, give them deathwind launchers against orks: S5 pie plate of doom!!!

Ramseh wrote:Just a thought, with ork infantry pinning is your friend. Orks are easily pinned imo, and if you can use the terrain and your range to your advantage, you can really screw with an opponents plans by either forcing him to bottleneck or split his forces.

Also, a scout sniper squad with Sgt. Telion can really do some damage if you give them good positioning.

Just curious, how do you pin a fearless unit?

Ramseh wrote:Just a thought, with ork infantry pinning is your friend. Orks are easily pinned imo, and if you can use the terrain and your range to your advantage, you can really screw with an opponents plans by either forcing him to bottleneck or split his forces.

Also, a scout sniper squad with Sgt. Telion can really do some damage if you give them good positioning.

I am a big fan of Sgt. Telion and Scout snipers against anyone with low leadership and BS.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
I did forget about the whole "check size" thing though. Unless they are small units, or seriously reduced, they probably aren't going to be pinned any time soon.

Ramseh wrote:Just a thought, with ork infantry pinning is your friend. Orks are easily pinned imo, and if you can use the terrain and your range to your advantage, you can really screw with an opponents plans by either forcing him to bottleneck or split his forces.

Also, a scout sniper squad with Sgt. Telion can really do some damage if you give them good positioning.

Not really. Ork mobs of any decent size are Fearless, so pinning won't be effective at all.

But you can use telion to pick off the Nob.

Thunderfire Cannon in Airburst mode. S5, AP6, no cover saves=wound on 3+, no saves at all for orc boys.

pdawg517 wrote:But you can use telion to pick off the Nob.

You mean the Nob with two wounds? The one usually in cover?

*ahem*...has anyone asked the OP what his current army looks like yet? As that would influence whether he could apply certain tactics...

Whirwinds, and as many 3+ armor saves with Bolters and Flamers as you can.

Ill ask, what size is your army? Im talking on the cheap. Because its never smart to have a comfy 1000pt army, and then ramp it up to max to hit 1400 or so. Specially when your playing against someone that easily has a comfy 1800pt army. Its too easy to fill in with just regular boys and really make you work for the extra points you spent on random gear that wont really help out.

And the trick to battle wagons, are either get behind them, or pummel them with vindicators. Infact the latter works awefully good on the rest of Orks too

Vindicators...

As an alternative, your predator as heavy. (AC/HB)

Some dreadnoughts with heavy flamers, a heavy flamer should kill 2/3 of the orks under the template (the vindicator should kill 5/6! )

Redeemers can be nice, since most ork tank killing comes from deff koptas, and battlewagons, that enough of your shots should put down.

Chapter masters from captains might be good here, since for 25 points, you get a large blast of orks.

Maybe I should write up an article on how to use a vindicator, and why to...

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Vindicators...

As an alternative, your predator as heavy. (AC/HB)

Some dreadnoughts with heavy flamers, a heavy flamer should kill 2/3 of the orks under the template (the vindicator should kill 5/6! )

Redeemers can be nice, since most ork tank killing comes from deff koptas, and battlewagons, that enough of your shots should put down.

Chapter masters from captains might be good here, since for 25 points, you get a large blast of orks.

Maybe I should write up an article on how to use a vindicator, and why to...

Good idea. I've only used it once and it was my friends. PS: U write about Vindicators on two of my articales!

Well that should tell you something then. Vindicators are a serious power house. Infact if I played SM I would deffinetly take those as much as possible.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:

Maybe I should write up an article on how to use a vindicator, and why to...

sorry i ninjid you Inquisitor




Vindicators are awsome against orks as the tanks weakness is against shooting and Orks can't effectively stop it before it gets a few shots off.

you might try the TFC. it does best against orks.

landspeeder typhoons, heavy bolter and 2 frag missiles a turn while moving at cruising speed.

pdawg517 wrote:Actually, throw those bad boys at some Nobz and really watch him lose combat resolution. Lightning claws are going to do better against the boyz.

For every termie you lose, 1 wound for combat resolution for him. For every nob you wound with a hammer, thats 2 wounds for combat resolution for you.

How does this work out to 2 wounds? You may have IDd him but he still only had 1 unsaved wound...

EDIT: Stupid crappy wireless connection!!!!