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with the new 8th ed what army benefits the most (before errata) with the new rules & why?

Just curious....

I've voted Bretonnia as I am starting them

No reasons why?

I want to say Dwarves. To my understanding, their only losses are "Must use special weapon if equipped with one" and that they can't use the souped up magic.

I thought this thread would go wild with votes & comments.....

I don't know that enough folks have had a chance to really figure out the best exploits for the various armies yet. I mean, while many folks have gotten to take a look at the new rules, not many have been able to sit down and really study them and figure out what that means for their army.

Well, the other big factor is that the Army Errata hasn't been released yet, which for some armies is needed pretty badly before we can tell the actual effects of 8th.

I've played a few 8th games against Orcs n Gobs and I have to say they are giving me a lot more of a challenge than they did in the past.

Ogres, Orcs and Gobbos, Empire and Dwarves are way better now

I've played a lot of games recently on my time off and the most success I've seen are with Ogres, Dwarfs and Empire.
Ogres got the biggest boost as they went from mediocrity to sweet Jesus awesome. Dwarfs and their huge amount of GW and the new shooting rules have made them a temporary top tier army that is only shared by Empire.

The ones that took the biggest hit were VC, Brettonians and Wood Elves.
Magic has boned VC, Brets just need their lance formation to be changed to three in a rank to make them go from sheer rubbish to good (hell I hate brets, but I'd take them if that happened) and Wood Elves just lost all of their advantages and have very few units that can capture and hold objectives.

SKAVEN!!!

Several damn reason why....

4 point rank and file footman, with a LD bonus equal to their rank bonus. Field them in blocks of 50, line size of 10 for horde bonus.

Either A. Watch them just outweight almost anything or B. Watch them lock up a enemy unit for the whole game. Even if they do get killed woopty do, you just killed 200pts of skaven... Now meet my other 250 clanrats

Another thing that will be very handy will be the dreaded 13th spell. Just grab a super cheap caster and keep throwing lots of dice with it. If your lucky.. You might get to cast it twice.

dwarves & ogres seem like they are benefitting from 8th....

ogres in the first round of combat if they charge are beasts
first bull charge then normal attacks THEN you got stomp. Your now going to receive alot more deaths by ogres

It depends on which of the two questions you are asking.

The poll asks which will be the best, and I personally think the Empire and Skaven will eke out the others.

But the army that benefits the most - the one that improves the most from 7E to 8E - is going to be O&G. They go from bottom tier to top tier in one big leap. Skaven and Empire were both strong second tier armies before.

Ive played three games against different opponents with three different armies.
Beastmen- The ability to mix monsters, chariots, and infantry...all surging forward is brutal. I faced an empire gunline with 2 of each outriders, mortars, cannons, and helblasters, 30 man spears. I took Doombull, Gorebull BSB, 3x1 razorgors, 2 chariots, ghorgon, jabber, 2x21 gors, 4 minotaurs. The ability to have severaly heavy hitting units makes them divide shooting so much that the empire couldn't handle all that survived to get to his lines. I lost half my army to shooting, but combat just butchered everything.

Ogres- So many wounds, big blocks of bulls, GUT MAGIC.....the hellheart!.....I played against Dark Elves. We each dominated our own magic phase. Obviously he dominated shooting, but so many wounds he has to dish couldn't do enough. The ability to get off pretty much any gut magic you want is brutal. I had +1 Toughness bulls for the entire game, and all his attacks needed 6's to wound from xbows and ccw. Even his blackguard need 5's to wound.

Wood Elves- (I voted for)- Warhawks and glade guard get vanguard, the ability to march next to enemies by passing ld check, and still having the ability to fire after marching. Scouts that can deploy 12' away now standard. No moving and shooting penalties. Glade Guard with St4 bows at short range and firing in 2 ranks. Ive always played a shooting WE with little to no trees at all...I usually take 1-2 units of Dryads, but the Skirmish rules suck. I played a horde empire army (outnumbered 2.5-1) but so many shots from bows, encircling the enemy easier with vanguard, scouting behind enemy lines (new scenarios open up backfields easier with deployment), just made it too easy for the WE. He even backed away to avoid casualties, but you can only move so far. I think vs toughness 4 models the bowline would still do the same as they would more than likely be continually heading for combat and eating plenty of shots and a couple rounds of st 4 bow shots.


On a side note---
VC and Dwarves will be tough.
VC can spam cheap Necromancers and Nehek easy...they can continually cast on a single dice of 3+, if that necro fails then they can jump to the next one and so on. THey will be raising a lot more skellies and zombies, making a war of attrition bad for everyone. The ability for all their vampires to take forbidden lore and know all spells from any lore but the lore of life is just insane. I think fear is just as good because you will potentially be fighting against WS1 enemies in combat, giving VC a lot more hits.

A Dwarven combat horde is way better. They can now charge up to 15 inches, given good dice rolls. Even on average they will be charging 10 inches....There gunline is way better with 2 ranks of firing.

I really like how Dwarfs are looking in 8th, and if I didn't already have a big Empire army that I am up to my eye balls with I would probably start Dwarfs.

High Elves got big boost because of the new ASF there rerolling to hit most things so they just became dark elves that ASF.

Hmmm, interesting comments on VC.

The only thing stopping me from doing a VC army is the miscast table. It makes me want to go with a balls to the Walls combat vampire instead of a wizardy one.

I voted Empire because I think they have benefitted the most. They can really field a horde of minis and still benefit from lots of Warmachines, cav, and magic.

I think Dwarfs are going to become a lot more popular, but are still middle tier. Movement 3 is still there and you're having to pay for the Engineers and Upgrades to keep those Misfires from plagueing your machines.

Definitely Empire.
The fact that they can put out a large amount of troops coupled with the fact that everyone I know is fielding 'psuedo'(yeah...)gunlines which are brutal to play against means that they will probably be 1st or 2nd tier.
Shooting for them definitely got a lot more powerful while the OP stuff (well, basically 2 Steam Tanks) is pretty useless.
Greetz,
Mr. Self Destruct

I've been sitting down with my gaming cronies, looking through the army books to see what armies are gonna be uber.

We decided that Empire and Dwarfs are gonna be uber as is the general consensus, along with Skaven.

We also decided that VC are also a lot more powerful in 8th than what was first thought. Necromancer spam looks to be a powerful build, with skellys in core and led by a scary combat vampire. I think I was wrong about VC being bad.

Ogres gained the most and beasts became pretty beastly.

I am still shocked by the VC. they are still pretty damn good.


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And the army we found that had dropped I'm power significantly was the Daemons.

The new shooting rules are butchering the Daemon armies we tried. We tried High Elves against a typical 7th ed tourney army and the daemons got slaughtered.

I think we've finally seen the last of them.

I think the Nurgle Daemons are done and gone...but I think the other 3 will still see play, though not as much.

Empire can be brutal, but I think it will rely on 1st turn. In both games I played, they needed that extra round of shooting to stop the oncoming horde. Since they went 2nd, I had a lot more stuff make combat....and St 3 T 3 I 3 troops won't stand for long.

After reading my High Elves book, they got a huge boost. Fighting in 2 ranks, rerolling to hit with ASF even with great weapons. Good thing their rules state they get ASF regardless of weapon. I hope they don't FAQ it and say they can't. Their army book is clear that they can. We will see though.

There will be an errata or confirmation regarding ASF/GW in HE.

It needs it badly.

I'm going to wait til after the erratas are released to choose an army, but as it stands without the erratas I've narrowed it down to VC, Dwarfs, Ogres, Skaven and Beasts.

Wheres the "Until the errata's are released and we have a few weeks to test theres no way to know option"

The title of the thread and the title of the poll seem to be asking two different things:

Which army will be best vs Which army gained the most

Neither of which can be answered properly until July 12th, but the second is probably a solid Ogre Kingdoms with Dwarfs a close second.

is that better?

I've read some very mixed opinions regarding TK.

Does anyone have any educated guesses or knowledge if they are going to be any good???

i just stumbled upon this poll and the 2 armies on top are the two i play. seems odd that ogres are seemingly competative now.

studderingdave wrote:i just stumbled upon this poll and the 2 armies on top are the two i play. seems odd that ogres are seemingly competative now.

I think they are a lot better, but overhyped. Once people start figuring out how to tarpit the 500 point bullstar people are talking about it will lose a lot of effectivenss.

the ogre deathstar is nothing new. i prefer not to use it but thats just me

Yeah, IMHO, Ogres jumped from worst army to top notch in record time, without needing a new AB. (I personally am favoring units of 6 bulls over anything else ATM. I think that HE, Dwarfs and Empire are the best over all, but none have made a bigger leap than OK.