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Im a blood angels player, and i'm starting to play alot more tournaments, so i was wondering what do you guys think is more competitive? the Vindicator or Predator

The Predator has more fire power, but the vindicator has the front armor 13 and the Devastator Cannon

Vindicators are pretty cool.

Preds never do it for me, actually.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, predator's have 13 front armor to for some reason, even though it's exactly the same as a rhino >.>

That is really weird... i could have sworn it was only 11...

Dashyl wrote:Im a blood angels player, and i'm starting to play alot more tournaments, so i was wondering what do you guys think is more competitive? the Vindicator or Predator

The Predator has more fire power, but the vindicator has the front armor 13 and the Devastator Cannon

Well, I assume you mean just the normal Predator and not a Baal Predator?

Dashyl wrote:That is really weird... i could have sworn it was only 11...

Its 13

But on the question, i always take the predators.
One weapon destroyed on the vindicator and its not doing anything for the rest of the game.

Sure Strength 10 is good to have. So the Vindicator is no bad tank, its just not my thing.

Dashyl wrote:
Im a blood angels player, and i'm starting to play alot more tournaments, so i was wondering what do you guys think is more competitive? the Vindicator or Predator

The Predator has more fire power, but the vindicator has the front armor 13 and the Devastator Cannon

Well, I assume you mean just the normal Predator and not a Baal Predator?

Yes, The Regular Predator vs. the Vindicator

It depends on your army list IMO.

Do you need long ranged fire support or a way to make one of your opponent's squads go bye bye, but in order to do so must expose itself to short-ranged melta weaponry.

IIRC, an AC/LC Pred costs less then a standard Vindicator.

The Pred can sit back and shoot and since it's fast, can reposition itself slightly.

The Vindicator can actually play like it is supposed to fluff-wise, move up, fire, mop-up with tac squads.

I like the vindicator. One unique advantage of a BA predator though is that it can re-orient without losing it's shooting, which is kind of an issue for SM predators. Alot of times they can't shoot one of their sponsons because of the tanks own bulk. Flip side of that is the vindicator can move 12 and shoot, which is reallly good.

Vindis generally need armored support, else it just sucks all the meltaguns and dies. Two vindis work better, or a vindi in a mech army so it has rhino support.

Fast vindis do rather scare me more than fast preds, baal or not.

First off, they have exactly the same armor, 13/11/10.

For Blood angels, they are both fast, so the decision of which to pick really depends on the rest of your list.

Predator; Autocannon/Lascannon sponson variant. Used for long range transport/tank busting, rely on meltas from your assualt squads to finish stuff off when you get close. Helps lock down anything that it doesn't kill with early immobilization and weapon destroyed results. Can move 6" and fire all 3 weapons, which is kinda slow by BA standards when you factor in the flying dreadnoughts, fast transports and what not. I imagine it would be easy to leave it unprotected and vulnerable to assault from enemy troops if you aren't careful.

Vindicator; Feels more Blood Angely to me. Plays like a punch to the face. Roll it up 12" a turn and use the template to put the hurt on scary enemy super units and tightly packed units that you pop out of transports. Issues are possible bad scatter into your aggressive assault units, and the fact that 1 weapon destroyed or immobilzed result really ruin it's day. That said it seems like it's a lot easier to protect as it will keep pace with other BA units and may be able to pull some fire off of your rhinos/razors/dreads/assault troops onto it's decent 13 armor value, as it's typically regarded as a much higher threat, since it's closer, it's S10, and it has a scary template.....psychological warfare

Psychological warfare is fun if your opponent isnt used to facing them. Yeah weapon destroyed on the Vindicator sucks but i have fun chasing my opponents with them after this happens. The Pred. has advantages being long range and more versatile but for me if i was playing BAs i would probably run 2 Vindis and 1 Pred. because running around 12" and firing big blasts is too damn tempting to resist.

skip regular predators and go for BAAL. Its has perfect shooting range and can outflank. pack your army with those first and maby 2 vidicators second

This is my army list right now

Librarian

5 Assault Marines - Melta, Infernus - Razorback las/TL Plasma
5 Assault Marines - Melta, Infernus - Razorback las/TL Plasma
5 Assault Marines - Melta, Infernus - Razorback las/TL Plasma
5 Assault Marines - Melta, Infernus - Razorback las/TL Plasma
5 Assault Marines - Melta, Infernus - Razorback las/TL Plasma

Predator - Heavy Bolters
Predator - Heavy Bolters

Baal Predator - Heavy Bolters
Baal Predator - Heavy Bolters

The vindicator looks awesome on paper but has a serious drawback in practice, short range. They have the same stats so the predator often ends up being more useful during the game because it can do its job at a distance meaning your opponent will spend most of the game facing AV 13 while the vindicator is going to speed ahead and start firing its demolisher so it is now effectively AV 11 due to ease of getting side shots.

If you build your list right you can protect your vindicators side armor to make that less of an issue which makes it more difficult to fit into a list and play correctly.

The two units do different tasks anyway as predators put large numbers of wounds on infantry and pop light tanks at range while the vindicator is for area denial since nothing in the game wants to get with in its 24 inch radius short of suicide melta units.

Based on your list and all the stand off shooting it has i think the predators will be a better fit as the vindicator is better for armies that want to move up to the middle of the board and yours looks like it wants to stand back and shoot.

I'm pretty sure that the Demolisher Cannon's short range is listed on paper...

Nurglitch wrote:I'm pretty sure that the Demolisher Cannon's short range is listed on paper...

Zing!

Yeah it is but sometimes people see the short range and think the AV 13 will balance it out which it will only if you protect its side armor. Not everyone realizes how much you have to baby sit vindicators so they don't die the turn after you move forward. All I was saying is you cant just drop it into a list or it will get burned up fast. Sorry for trying to help.

Dashyl
I don't think you should run the heavy bolter preds. The baal carries a devestating gun and has a scout move for about the same if not less the cost (dont have the book nearby, sorry)

I cant overstate how completely awesome the baal predator is. If I was doing mech blood angels I'd run 3 standard. Aggressive, fast, tough, cheap... just golden.
AF

agree with you btw about babysitting vindicators. I really dont think you need them if you have baal predators. The baal predator has a gun that against most infantry targets has the same effect, with two important differences: the inferno cannon ignores cover, and it auto hits.

Don't forget it is a good amount cheaper.

I am going to have to say vindicators.

str10 ap2 large blast has rarely failed me before. The fact you guys get extra mobility makes it better.

I currently run a Vindicator in my list, and want more. Sure, one weapon destroyed can suck, but then I use it as mobile cover and a battering ram against troops.

They charge a lot more for the Vindicator than the Predators as compared to Codex Marines. You're looking at an extra 30 points for a BA Vindicator, but only 10 for Pred, altho it's another 5 more for the sponsons as well.

I think they did well on those costs, though, balancing them nicely with the addition of Fast. I like the Baal a lot, it's very flexible, and I like a cheap Dakkapred that goes Fast as well too. The Vindicator has obvious capabilities, but it's upcosted.

Honestly, any of these are good options, and can fill holes in a list. A Vindicator is nice in a list that has trouble with Terminators, Nobs and other tough infantry, that BA assault troops might not do as well with. The Dakka Predator can fill out a list short on shooting volume. The Baal does much the same, but leaves HS slots open, and adds a decent anti-tank option as well.

BA vindicators have a very large range.

Effective 36" range(12" move, 24" range)


if you have 3 you can hang on your board edge and then move up and Nuke him. if they die "So what"? now he is trying to kill them and allowing your Assault marines to get up and kill him.

A fast vindicator will make me scream like a sissy girl, a predator annihilator I will laugh at. A Dakkabaal will annoy me, and a flame baal I will only wonder why.

As a guard player, I fear str 10 large blast way more than sniper tanks or light fire support. Others will disagree, but because of my play style, Id really be trying to deal with a fast vindicator long before any land raiders.

A fast Vindicator is a lot more frightening, and that's coming from one who favors the Predator. Being able to keep up with most other transports and still fire is extremely useful for such a short ranged weapon. Blood Angel Predators really got the short end of the stick: a Predator that's properly positioned won't need to move, but you have to pay for the super-charged engines anyway. I think the engines are less valuable than extra armor, but with that bloat your Predators are as bad as our fiendishly expensive Chaos ones.

Would suggest taking a mix actually. There are going to be some games where the vindicator will be far better (think short sight lanes/ lot of terrain or horde armies) while there are other times that the pred will work better (think clear terrain games or a lot of light armor in the enemy army).

A couple pred to sit back and provide fire support while the Baal and a vindi charge forward will cover most situations. There are times one or the other would be far better, but if you want to have an all comers army go with a blend.



Sliggoth

Pred: reach out and touch someone.
Vindi: in your face bowling ball.

It's a personal choice really. Do you need better anti-transport or a jack of all trades cannon-ball?

I'm with cromwest. Short range, lack of accuracy and thin side armor combine to make vindicators a sub-par choice IMO. Unlike a predator, a vindicator has to close in to shoot (because of short range), thus exposing its side armor. Also it usually gets one shot off at the most before something meltas it in the side, and the scatter/cover makes that shot ineffective probably more than half the time.

In 4th edition where cover was harder to get, vindis were better. But a direct fire large blast weapon in 5th edition--even when it connects--isn't going to wipe out whole squads anymore without a huge amount of luck or a totally clueless opponent.

BA vindicators can move in for their shot faster, but they are just as close and exposed afterward, and just as likely to miss.

I see vindicators in my opponents' armies pretty often, but can't remember the last time a vindicator actually did anything useful against me. Killing maybe a couple of marines in cover or stunning a rhino and then dying to the first burst of autocannon shot in the side doesn't seem worth 130+ points to me.

In my CSM army I run one of each. The Predator can give me a rare ranged transport popper (at least in CSM) with the autocannon and 2x lascannon. The Vindicator is a huge threat with daemonic possession and will either soak up fire or be ignored and blast people. Sometimes both. Either way the threat is usually worth taking.

I like the predator over the vindicator

Pred with autocannon and sponson las @135 points is a really good buy.

I find vindicators get overtargeted and they remain fairly useless all game.

however if your strat is to make them fire at the vin to protect your other vehicles then go for it.