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Continuing a discussion found in another thread (see here:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/312601.page), here we can discuss how Games Worshop will not divulge any information as to what they have planned for the future. It doesn't seem like a very good way to treat your main consumer, and honestly it doesn't seem like a very smart way to run your business...

Discuss

There's actually not a bad reason, at all, for not announcing things in advance.

Models aren't like video games wherein there's a system requirement. There's no planned obsolescence involved like consoles or graphics cards.

People can still play their Deathwing Terminator army from 2nd edition, provided they've at least rebased the models(and you're not even required to do that, it'd just make feel random pick-up players more comfortable playing it) or done some weapon swaps/counts-as.

So, from a viewpoint of sales...you're not going to move the 'old' stock if people know there's 'new' stock coming in a year or so. And it costs a hell of a lot more for them to recall the old stock and recycle the sprues, etc than it does to just keep their mouths shut and keep a lid on upcoming releases until the last minute.

There's a lot of companies that don't let you know what's coming out next.

It makes you more apt to buy now instead of waiting for the shiny thing that comes out in the fall. This is a company that we're talking about. You know. The kind that tries to make money.

Darth Bob wrote:Continuing a discussion found in another thread (see here:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/312601.page), here we can discuss how Games Worshop will not divulge any information as to what they have planned for the future. It doesn't seem like a very good way to treat your main consumer, and honestly it doesn't seem like a very smart way to run your business...

Discuss

I agree. This is one of the two things that really frustrates me about this company. I can deal with the prices continuously rising (well, for now) and I can deal with vague rules. I can even deal with slow FAQs, but why the secrecy when it comes to future products? Don't you want there to be a buzz about it that isn't complete speculation? Or leaks? I mean, what harm is coming from allowing people to know what is coming out next? They won't buy any models? If they're not buying models because you've announced something new, then they're probably planning on spending it on "what's new" anyway. I've never understood this about GW.

The second pet peeve - and this one is probably the biggest of all, for me - is the fact that, for price we pay for models, they should come with all the options you need to make whatever you can in the codex. Why don't tactical boxes come with power fists? Why don't nearly any vehicle come with dozer blades? I'm paying $35 for a razorback, and yet, they don't come with 2/4 turret options. That's insane.

puma713 wrote:

Darth Bob wrote:Continuing a discussion found in another thread (see here:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/312601.page), here we can discuss how Games Worshop will not divulge any information as to what they have planned for the future. It doesn't seem like a very good way to treat your main consumer, and honestly it doesn't seem like a very smart way to run your business...

Discuss

I agree. This is one of the two things that really frustrates me about this company. I can deal with the prices continuously rising (well, for now) and I can deal with vague rules. I can even deal with slow FAQs, but why the secrecy when it comes to future products? Don't you want there to be a buzz about it that isn't complete speculation? Or leaks? I mean, what harm is coming from allowing people to know what is coming out next? They won't buy any models? If they're not buying models because you've announced something new, then they're probably planning on spending it on "what's new" anyway. I've never understood this about GW.

Look around any FLGS that's been in business for a decade(at least), and I'm willing to bet you'll find boxes of the previous incarnation of the Chaos/Loyalist Marine Terminators buried around there. You'll probably also find a half dozen or so of the blisters associated with those boxes for special weapons.

The second pet peeve - and this one is probably the biggest of all, for me - is the fact that, for price we pay for models, they should come with all the options you need to make whatever you can in the codex. Why don't tactical boxes come with power fists? Why don't nearly any vehicle come with dozer blades? I'm paying $35 for a razorback, and yet, they don't come with 2/4 turret options. That's insane.

What vehicles don't come with dozer blades? Genuinely curious, as I've not bought any Marine vehicles and I have to wonder where this is coming from.
As for the Razorbacks...go and take a look at Privateer Press. You pay $35ish for a half unit of infantry, and then are paying $10 for each of the unit attachments.

But let's look at something. It's not just that we don't get details on what's coming out. It's the fact that we can't even get an idea. They don't have to tell us "The Dark Eldar are coming out this fall and they'll have this, this, this, this, and this." They could just say "The Dark Eldar are coming out this fall." If they would just say something as broad and undetailed as that, I guarantee you 90% of the eager and drooling consumers would be satisfied. But they won't even tell us something that broad.

Their biggest convention; Games Day. A day dedicated to the works of their company, and they don't give you a single clue of what's coming out in the year to come? I'm sorry but that's ludicrous, and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find another company that would pull something like that at their biggest anual convention. If they had any respect for the consumer, they wouldn't be so secretive. Most companies seek to generate hype for their products, but Games Workshop blatantly refuses to do anything of the sort. They'd prefer to leave us in the dark all the time.

puma713 wrote:I agree. This is one of the two things that really frustrates me about this company. I can deal with the prices continuously rising (well, for now) and I can deal with vague rules. I can even deal with slow FAQs, but why the secrecy when it comes to future products? Don't you want there to be a buzz about it that isn't complete speculation? Or leaks? I mean, what harm is coming from allowing people to know what is coming out next? They won't buy any models? If they're not buying models because you've announced something new, then they're probably planning on spending it on "what's new" anyway. I've never understood this about GW.

The second pet peeve - and this one is probably the biggest of all, for me - is the fact that, for price we pay for models, they should come with all the options you need to make whatever you can in the codex. Why don't tactical boxes come with power fists? Why don't nearly any vehicle come with dozer blades? I'm paying $35 for a razorback, and yet, they don't come with 2/4 turret options. That's insane.

I don't really care about GW being secretive personally, its a companies perogative to operate as they see fit and it seems to work for GW. The flipside of being so secretive is if they did reveal everything thats planned and it took longer then they anticipated, had to change something, or didn't include a release thats wanted by a vitriolic vocal minority, you'd have a nerd rage poostorm equivalent to Hurricane Katrina. Damned if you do, damned if you don't type of situation.

I agree with your second paragraph 100% though. And it is a big letdown considering how much they can cram on sprues now.

Darth Bob wrote:But let's look at something. It's not just that we don't get details on what's coming out. It's the fact that we can't even get an idea. They don't have to tell us "The Dark Eldar are coming out this fall and they'll have this, this, this, this, and this." They could just say "The Dark Eldar are coming out this fall." If they would just say something as broad and undetailed as that, I guarantee you 90% of the eager and drooling consumers would be satisfied. But they won't even tell us something that broad.

I highly doubt that. You'd get people clamoring about how they wish they knew what was coming out, what the rules are, where they can get a torrent of the leaked 'dex, etc etc.

Their biggest convention; Games Day. A day dedicated to the works of their company, and they don't give you a single clue of what's coming out in the year to come? I'm sorry but that's ludicrous, and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find another company that would pull something like that at their biggest anual convention. If they had any respect for the consumer, they wouldn't be so secretive. Most companies seek to generate hype for their products, but Games Workshop blatantly refuses to do anything of the sort. They'd prefer to leave us in the dark all the time.

Games Days used to be a fantastic place to get rumors, and it was considered a bonus perk to get to know what's coming out by attending their seminars.

Their one request was "No Photographs/Videos", so that when stuff went up on the website the week after--it'd be a total surprise to anyone who wasn't there.

But of course, people started finding ways around the "No Photos/Video" and started posting stuff up after(sometimes even during) the events.

And it pissed the hell out of the sculptors/painters. They don't want you to get your first look at this gorgeously sculpted and laboriously painted model as some blurry, half-assed picture through the display stand taken by some neckbeard on his cameraphone. And of course...those photos are going to be absolute crap. And people were making judgments on the models, simply through those half-assed pictures. And of course...they'd flood the GW official forums with vitriol about how they need to fire this sculptor for doing such a crummy job, etc etc.
It pissed the hell out of the Codex's authors, who wanted you to have to wait to read it when your store gets their copy(unless of course you're at Games Day, in which case--hey, here's a nifty little perk as you can go take a look at all the cool artwork, the units lined up for the book, etc), when people would actually sit down and try to write up an army list right then and there, preventing other people from reading it.

puma713 wrote:The second pet peeve - and this one is probably the biggest of all, for me - is the fact that, for price we pay for models, they should come with all the options you need to make whatever you can in the codex. Why don't tactical boxes come with power fists? Why don't nearly any vehicle come with dozer blades? I'm paying $35 for a razorback, and yet, they don't come with 2/4 turret options. That's insane.

Well yeah.

Can't argue with you there.

I herd they're making a new codex and it's gonig to be the most awesome codex ever with sweet models and great rules and fluff that's totally grimdark!!!!one!!!

Kanluwen wrote:

puma713 wrote:
The second pet peeve - and this one is probably the biggest of all, for me - is the fact that, for price we pay for models, they should come with all the options you need to make whatever you can in the codex. Why don't tactical boxes come with power fists? Why don't nearly any vehicle come with dozer blades? I'm paying $35 for a razorback, and yet, they don't come with 2/4 turret options. That's insane.

What vehicles don't come with dozer blades? Genuinely curious, as I've not bought any Marine vehicles and I have to wonder where this is coming from.
As for the Razorbacks...go and take a look at Privateer Press. You pay $35ish for a half unit of infantry, and then are paying $10 for each of the unit attachments.

So far in the new marine stuff I've bought, Razorbacks are the only ones that come with one. And it's a little triangular-shaped minesweeper-looking thing. I'd much rather have a dozer blade like the ones that come with the leman russes. But, Rhinos and Baal Predators don't, at least.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Darth Bob wrote:But let's look at something. It's not just that we don't get details on what's coming out. It's the fact that we can't even get an idea. They don't have to tell us "The Dark Eldar are coming out this fall and they'll have this, this, this, this, and this." They could just say "The Dark Eldar are coming out this fall." If they would just say something as broad and undetailed as that, I guarantee you 90% of the eager and drooling consumers would be satisfied. But they won't even tell us something that broad.

Their biggest convention; Games Day. A day dedicated to the works of their company, and they don't give you a single clue of what's coming out in the year to come? I'm sorry but that's ludicrous, and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find another company that would pull something like that at their biggest anual convention. If they had any respect for the consumer, they wouldn't be so secretive. Most companies seek to generate hype for their products, but Games Workshop blatantly refuses to do anything of the sort. They'd prefer to leave us in the dark all the time.

Yeah, wonder how well E3 would do if the gaming companies had nothing to show for the next year.

My rhinos did...

Monster Rain wrote:My rhinos did...

Mine didn't. The dozer blade is on the turret sprue for the razorback.

puma713 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

puma713 wrote:
The second pet peeve - and this one is probably the biggest of all, for me - is the fact that, for price we pay for models, they should come with all the options you need to make whatever you can in the codex. Why don't tactical boxes come with power fists? Why don't nearly any vehicle come with dozer blades? I'm paying $35 for a razorback, and yet, they don't come with 2/4 turret options. That's insane.

What vehicles don't come with dozer blades? Genuinely curious, as I've not bought any Marine vehicles and I have to wonder where this is coming from.
As for the Razorbacks...go and take a look at Privateer Press. You pay $35ish for a half unit of infantry, and then are paying $10 for each of the unit attachments.

So far in the new marine stuff I've bought, Razorbacks are the only ones that come with one. And it's a little triangular-shaped minesweeper-looking thing. I'd much rather have a dozer blade like the ones that come with the leman russes. But, Rhinos and Baal Predators don't, at least.

Odd. I could have sworn Rhinos did, at least.

Yeah, wonder how well E3 would do if the gaming companies had nothing to show for the next year.

You do realize that there's a huge difference between E3 and Games Day, yeah?

E3 is everyone trying to one-up each other, on huge budgets allocated just for that event, with a center laid out for them.

Games Day is just Games Workshop hosting something for the fans.

I do not care whether GW announces anything or not. I own plenty enough stuff, and buy when I choose, not when GW wants me to.

Therefore, I fully support GW's decision to release whatever information they so desire. Or not.

It harms me, and my gaming group not in the least.

Darth Bob wrote:Their biggest convention; Games Day. A day dedicated to the works of their company, and they don't give you a single clue of what's coming out in the year to come? I'm sorry but that's ludicrous, and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find another company that would pull something like that at their biggest anual convention. If they had any respect for the consumer, they wouldn't be so secretive. Most companies seek to generate hype for their products, but Games Workshop blatantly refuses to do anything of the sort. They'd prefer to leave us in the dark all the time.

Its possible that GW wants Games Day to be more of a day of actual gaming then a trade show type thing that you describe. Every single Games Day that I went to even when they had previews and concepts up for upcoming releases, more folks were playing the actual games, participating in the events/contests then gathered around the preview booths. I think at some point a small but vocal subsect(usually on the internet and weren't able to go) began rating the success of Games Days by what new information was revealed, rather then how much fun participants had with events and gaming with/meeting new people.

I understand it's annoying, but I don't see how it shows disrespect to the consumer. They aren't asking you to pre-order unknown models.

Kanluwen wrote:So, from a viewpoint of sales...you're not going to move the 'old' stock if people know there's 'new' stock coming in a year or so. And it costs a hell of a lot more for them to recall the old stock and recycle the sprues, etc than it does to just keep their mouths shut and keep a lid on upcoming releases until the last minute.

They're also not going to sell old stock if people think they're being replaced, or if the old stock just looks like ass (see Dark Eldar). At least releasing this kind of information would ensure that the models not being replaced would keep on selling, and might generate increased sales every now and again, when someone likes the old models better (see daemonettes).

Kanluwen wrote:Games Days used to be a fantastic place to get rumors, and it was considered a bonus perk to get to know what's coming out by attending their seminars.

Their one request was "No Photographs/Videos", so that when stuff went up on the website the week after--it'd be a total surprise to anyone who wasn't there.

But of course, people started finding ways around the "No Photos/Video" and started posting stuff up after(sometimes even during) the events.

And it pissed the hell out of the sculptors/painters. They don't want you to get your first look at this gorgeously sculpted and laboriously painted model as some blurry, half-assed picture through the display stand taken by some neckbeard on his cameraphone. And of course...those photos are going to be absolute crap. And people were making judgments on the models, simply through those half-assed pictures. And of course...they'd flood the GW official forums with vitriol about how they need to fire this sculptor for doing such a crummy job, etc etc.

They could have gone in the opposite direction. If they don't want an internet game of Chinese whispers to be the only way to find out what they're up to, why not make it obsolete with their own photos? They've got to realise that it's not even physically possible for everyone who wants to see the new models to show up to a Games Day, so why not release their own professional photos at the end of GD season or in White Dwarf, making it clear that the blurry cameraphone pics are not the be-all and end-all of the models?

Kanluwen wrote:There's actually not a bad reason, at all, for not announcing things in advance.

Let's not get ridiculous here. It may be an issue with no clear correct answer, but there are plenty of bad things about not announcing things in advance.

I've got one word for you Kanluwen: Apple.

Apple is well known for keeping their big releases secret, but still leaking bits of information to build anticipation. People don't know what Apple is coming out with a year from now, but they usually know what the next big release is- at least in a nutshell. Then, a couple of months before that new product is released, the leaks start. It appears at trade shows. People get to play with advanced copies. Everyone who is interested by this point has a good idea what the product is and what it can do. You only have to look at the lines outside of an Apple store the night before a major release to see how well that strategy works.

GW seems to think it's the miniature equivalent of Apple. They think they can charge the highest prices because they think they're the highest quality product. They market themselves as much as a hobby/lifestyle as they do as simple goods. Their biggest strength is that thier products work the same everywhere in the world (where's a gaming store with miniatures games but no support for GW games?) and once you're used to how GW does things their products have strong internal consistency. But generally they don't advertise like Apple. They came sort of close with the recent Warhammer Fantasy rulebook and Isle of Blood, and because of how well they did those I purchased the first the moment it became availible at my local GW (despite the huge GW Japan markup) and had to fight myself not to reserve a copy of the latter (I may break soon if the humidity doesn't drop soon so I can prime minis and get back to painting again- I'm running out of stuff to assemble.) But those release I knew were coming well before they were out. And I had a rough idea of the exact contents before I had the option to purchase.

Kanluwen wrote:So, from a viewpoint of sales...you're not going to move the 'old' stock if people know there's 'new' stock coming in a year or so.

On the contrary, I used to often buy up old stock of stuff when I knew a replacement was a couple of months away if I prefered the old product to the new. I did that with the old metal warhounds of Chaos (luckily because releases were slower in Japan back then I had a bit of a preview from reading American and British websites, even though the official company preview window was already closed by that point in time). I know I'm not the only one who does that. It makes me feel good about a company when they trust me enough to make an informed decision about buying their products- and when I feel good about a company I buy more from them. A company only needs to start witholding information about their products and interfering with my ability to make my own purchasing decisions when they have something to hide. If GW truly is the Porsche of miniatures, then they should have nothing to hide, right?

Kanluwen wrote:I highly doubt that. You'd get people clamoring about how they wish they knew what was coming out, what the rules are, where they can get a torrent of the leaked 'dex, etc etc.

I have to laugh every time I read this line of reasoning. It's as though you think GW is this tiny, helpless mom & pop company being constantly bullied but throngs of evil internet monsters. Not the largest company in its industry with a world-wide reach.

Quite frankly, if GW's marketting department can't handle some of their customers being excited about their products and wanting to know more about what's coming, they should fire everyone in that marketting department and hire someone competent. For all the crappy stunts they've pulled, they should count themselves lucky indeed to still have this much passion coming from their customer base. That's a passion they should treat as a resource, not fear as an annoyance.

JOHIRA wrote:Apple is well known for keeping their big releases secret, but still leaking bits of information to build anticipation. People don't know what Apple is coming out with a year from now, but they usually know what the next big release is- at least in a nutshell. Then, a couple of months before that new product is released, the leaks start. It appears at trade shows. People get to play with advanced copies. Everyone who is interested by this point has a good idea what the product is and what it can do. You only have to look at the lines outside of an Apple store the night before a major release to see how well that strategy works.

Isn't that exactly what GW does though? You hear whispers and random rumors, then a few folks on these fan sites, like Harry and Scryer , are given pretty damn accurate information on such a fairly consistent and regular basis that it doesn't really seem like an unplanned leak to me. And GW stores/retailers get advanced copies for customer perusal just as you describe.

I'm pretty sure that GW follows the Apple rout, they give previews for the NEXT exciting/new/to be purchased item on their website (and to a lesser extent FW doing teasers on their web mail). What the real complaint here, is the fact that some people want to know what is coming in two or three armybook/codex issues time. The reality is that it's never going to go back to the 'bad' old days where there was so much rumor and pictorial garbage flying around that when the release did happen that people were already so sick of arguing over it. They weren't intersested in it because they were still looking at the next lot of rumor/garbage pics. I'm pretty sure that Apple hasn't dropped out anything to do with iPhone 5 or iPad2, yet.

I like it as it is, there is sufficient lead time for me to decide whethter I want to purchase, but not so much that by the time it's available I'm bored of the thought of it. I'm also sacked off by the d**k measuring t*ssers who pass along a half assed piece of rumor that is proved to be almost entirely wrong most of the time. Oh, and all the speculation that comes from that is initially interesting, but after a short time is as about as much use as a toilet seat to a whale. I won't speak for anyone else, but it seems to me that the 'net is a microcosm of reality where sometimes the most verbose are afforded to much respect, but hey I like a good discussion.

GW isn't perfect, but I think the current method of informed delivery is much better than the old suppositions and inventions that used to happen

NELS1031 wrote:Isn't that exactly what GW does though? You hear whispers and random rumors, then a few folks on these fan sites, like Harry and Scryer , are given pretty damn accurate information on such a fairly consistent and regular basis that it doesn't really seem like an unplanned leak to me. And GW stores/retailers get advanced copies for customer perusal just as you describe.

Not really. Here are what seems to be the usual steps.

Step 1: Stoke the hardcore fanbase
Apple - Release hints to build anticipation.
GW - Release hints grudgingly because the playtest process is difficult to keep under wraps.

Step 2: Grab attention with the less hardcore fans
Apple - Make a basic splash announcement that confirms the gist of the rumours but does not give everything away at once.
GW - "We don't know nothin' about nothin'!"

Step 3: Build anticipation into a frenzy
Apple - Major PR blitz where everybody who has ever said anything positive about Apple gets to play with the product and say more positive things about Apple.
GW - "Everything you know is a lie!"

Step 4: Release!
Apple - Sell product to the rabid fans who are now lined up around the block begging for the chance to give Apple money.
GW - "Everybody, come to our website right now and pre-order this thing we've been telling you for months we haven't been working on! You better pre-order it right now because there might not be enough for everyone! Nudge nudge, wink wink."

Step 5: Profit?
Apple - Roll around in piles of money.
GW - Thank the Emperor that currency fluctuations let them just barely squeeze into the black. Raise prices. Complain about fans.

JOHIRA wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:There's actually not a bad reason, at all, for not announcing things in advance.

Let's not get ridiculous here. It may be an issue with no clear correct answer, but there are plenty of bad things about not announcing things in advance.

I've got one word for you Kanluwen: Apple.

Apple is well known for keeping their big releases secret, but still leaking bits of information to build anticipation. People don't know what Apple is coming out with a year from now, but they usually know what the next big release is- at least in a nutshell. Then, a couple of months before that new product is released, the leaks start. It appears at trade shows. People get to play with advanced copies. Everyone who is interested by this point has a good idea what the product is and what it can do. You only have to look at the lines outside of an Apple store the night before a major release to see how well that strategy works.

GW seems to think it's the miniature equivalent of Apple. They think they can charge the highest prices because they think they're the highest quality product. They market themselves as much as a hobby/lifestyle as they do as simple goods. Their biggest strength is that thier products work the same everywhere in the world (where's a gaming store with miniatures games but no support for GW games?) and once you're used to how GW does things their products have strong internal consistency. But generally they don't advertise like Apple. They came sort of close with the recent Warhammer Fantasy rulebook and Isle of Blood, and because of how well they did those I purchased the first the moment it became available at my local GW (despite the huge GW Japan markup) and had to fight myself not to reserve a copy of the latter (I may break soon if the humidity doesn't drop soon so I can prime minis and get back to painting again- I'm running out of stuff to assemble.) But those release I knew were coming well before they were out. And I had a rough idea of the exact contents before I had the option to purchase.

Their prices, again, aren't that far out of whack when compared with Privateer Press(their biggest and closest competitor). We've gone over this time after time after time--with the only difference being you need less models for PP's games, which gives the illusion of "being cheaper".

Johira wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:So, from a viewpoint of sales...you're not going to move the 'old' stock if people know there's 'new' stock coming in a year or so.

On the contrary, I used to often buy up old stock of stuff when I knew a replacement was a couple of months away if I prefered the old product to the new. I did that with the old metal warhounds of Chaos (luckily because releases were slower in Japan back then I had a bit of a preview from reading American and British websites, even though the official company preview window was already closed by that point in time).

Good for you? I'm sure there are other people who do that.

Johira wrote:I know I'm not the only one who does that. It makes me feel good about a company when they trust me enough to make an informed decision about buying their products- and when I feel good about a company I buy more from them. A company only needs to start witholding information about their products and interfering with my ability to make my own purchasing decisions when they have something to hide. If GW truly is the Porsche of miniatures, then they should have nothing to hide, right?

What does them being "the Porsche of miniatures" have to do with secrecy?

Johira wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I highly doubt that. You'd get people clamoring about how they wish they knew what was coming out, what the rules are, where they can get a torrent of the leaked 'dex, etc etc.

I have to laugh every time I read this line of reasoning. It's as though you think GW is this tiny, helpless mom & pop company being constantly bullied but throngs of evil internet monsters. Not the largest company in its industry with a world-wide reach.

Okay. You're not comprehending. They stopped it, not because of "being bullied", but because of the fact that they wanted to be the people doing the announcements on their own schedule without having to scramble to do damage control if some half-assed wackadoo took a crummy picture and posted it online. Word of mouth counts for alot, and a "bad model" being posted on a forum can knock a lot of sales down.

Johira wrote:
Quite frankly, if GW's marketing department can't handle some of their customers being excited about their products and wanting to know more about what's coming, they should fire everyone in that marketing department and hire someone competent. For all the crappy stunts they've pulled, they should count themselves lucky indeed to still have this much passion coming from their customer base. That's a passion they should treat as a resource, not fear as an annoyance.

There's people being excited and then there's the vocal minority. E.g. the "oh my god that's terrible" people, who make snap judgments based off blurry photos and badmouth the product to everyone, every chance they get.

Hell, when they used to show models off at Games Days a year in advance(at least)--people freaked out about how the Cadians looked like ass, and the Catachans were so much better. They just can't win with previews.

I'm going to first appologize if I come off as a douche but these threads seem to always end in bickering between fanbois and frustrated gamers.

1. I agree with the OP, it's ludicrous that a company as large as GW doesn't even give consumers a heads up...even at their own event.
a. Comparing Apple to GW is silly but Apple is better in that you KNOW they will release a new iPhone come July each year and by that time they've leaked so much info that you know everything about it before it hits the shelves; not to mention that THEY tell you at THEIR event before products are released.

2. Contrary to what someone said; Gamesday IS all about touting their product and less about gaming. Believe what you want but GW has repeatedly told everyone and sundry that they are a miniature manufacturer foremost and a game company somewhere near the end of the train. Ironic considering "Game" in their company name.

3. I agree completely that they should at least provide everything needed to make what's in the codex when they release a product. Seriously, there's no TL Plas/Las turret for my razorback? It's been an option for how long? Duh. It's like offering something in a catalog and then telling everyone "Sorry, we don't make that option even though we market it." Believe what you want, rulebooks are just as much sales tools as they are anything else.

What's so hard about providing teaser shots of WIP models; you don't need to provide a release date or anything else. Hell, Hollywood's been doing it for a bazillion years; see that promo poster with "Coming Soon" or "Coming Fall 2012" or even "Coming 2012" for upcoming movies. Hollywood almost never meets production deadlines and people still pay to see the movies when they come out. The worst that would happen for GW is that they would get a little internet nerd rage if Necrons came out in spring instead of fall (or whatever). They don't care because they already get tons of nerd rage by not even hinting at what's coming down the pipe and for not supporting older armies anyway.

Meh.

I don't agree at all.

Think about it; why should they give you a sneak peek? Models become worthless, people start to sell their old stuff in anticipation and there's a huge hype with people out there who will pick holes and slate them to death, just because they can, supplemented with guesswork and hypothertical what ifs and then a lot of unpatient people. Isn't it better to stick to a business plan?

Apple's sneak peeks are almost all of them actually orchestrated by apple to appearl. It's all sneaky beaky very clever psychological selling stuff. Back to the thread;

They do give hints and tips and they do tell people that something is coming soon. Look here here everyone knew Island of Blood was coming due to the sneak peek and the stuff in GW stores and the White Dwarf stories despite the fact that you can't buy it yet.

When GW have something to release they have a timetable of stuff to do before hand plus offer sneek peeks. Lots and lots of testing to look for exploits etc, marketing, gameplay, model production/distribution (worldwide), codexes.

Despite what you think people are told though and they always do so but only when they know it is coming rather than when it might come out. If they did do that there would be delays possibly due to gameplay issues, artwork, production etc, so they only say when they know they can deliver. Look at Duke Nukem Forever for a hint as to why it is not clever to say anything until you're sure. (Yes, I know it's a computer game but it is only an example)

Just because you're not getting little snippets that you want you've got issues with GW? I think that is unfair.

I was speaking to the GW staff in Stevenage yesterday and the goatee'd wizard said he's seen the new Necron Immortals which are plastic and there is a new Codex coming but no-one knows when yet. If there's no news, there is no news.

Kanluwen wrote:
Their prices, again, aren't that far out of whack when compared with Privateer Press(their biggest and closest competitor). We've gone over this time after time after time--with the only difference being you need less models for PP's games, which gives the illusion of "being cheaper".

but doesnt that mean it is "cheaper" so to speak? I mean yes to get really competitive I may need to buy 5-8 packs which can get just as expensive as warhammer but starting out all I need is $50 (sans rulebook) compared to the $90 BF of 40k which may not even give me enough model wise depending on the army

blizzard has proven that dropping teasers and telling people what's coming not only works, but is profoundly, enormously successful. they always let people know what's coming, give all kinds of teasers, and are the most profitable corporation since organized religion, and have people lining up at midnight all over the world for their products on release date. blizzard actually listens to its customers and fixes problems with its product and guess what? they posted $750M revenue last year, over 5 times GW's....by ripping GW off.

hype works. hype is good.

Elmodiddly wrote:Think about it; why should they give you a sneak peek? Models become worthless, people start to sell their old stuff in anticipation and there's a huge hype with people out there who will pick holes and slate them to death, just because they can, supplemented with guesswork and hypothertical what ifs and then a lot of unpatient people. Isn't it better to stick to a business plan?

As I said, models become worthless anyway, if people think they might be replaced. For example, even if GW has no plans to replace the Grey Knights line next year, the rumours about a January release are still costing them sales right now, as people wait to find out if it's true or not.

Despite what you think people are told though and they always do so but only when they know it is coming rather than when it might come out. If they did do that there would be delays possibly due to gameplay issues, artwork, production etc, so they only say when they know they can deliver. Look at Duke Nukem Forever for a hint as to why it is not clever to say anything until you're sure. (Yes, I know it's a computer game but it is only an example)

I'd argue Duke Nukem Forever is only the embarassment it is because 3D Realms hasn't developed anything in the past 13 years, after reliably developing a game every five months for the previous 11 years. If 3D Realms could say, "No, we haven't finished Duke Nukem Forever, but we have finished this, this and this!" they wouldn't get so much flak over it.

AlexHolker wrote:
I'd argue Duke Nukem Forever is only the embarassment it is because 3D Realms hasn't developed anything in the past 13 years, after reliably developing a game every five months for the previous 11 years. If 3D Realms could say, "No, we haven't finished Duke Nukem Forever, but we have finished this, this and this!" they wouldn't get so much flak over it.

that still doesnt stop a small amount of people rooting for it!

I am not one of those people though

Blizzard is a computer gaming company. Games Workshop is a miniture gaming company. A pretty big difference if you ask me, and one that has already been covered higher up in the thread. I agree with Kanluwen on this one, GW haters will always be GW haters, there will always be something for them to have a grump about.