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I have fielded several different Captain models in recent games and I have failed to find a decent setup for Vanilla Marines.

1. Captain in Terminator Armour + SB + Relic Blade + Melta Bombs (OK, wins most Close Combats but cannot sweeping advance as he is RELENTLESS)
2. Captain in AA + TH + SS + Melta Bombs ( Looks great but that Initiative loss for the TH is a major weakness in Close Combat)
3. Captain with Relic Blade and BP + Melta Bombs (Pretty standard, nothing special actually quite good with Iron Halo 2 CC Weapons)

I now believe the best most flexible Captain setup on Foot is this:-

Relic Blade
Melta Bombs
Stormshield + Aux Grenade Launcher

He can mix it up in CC, take on Armour, he lacks Long range but benefits from SS Inv 3+. I could drop the SS take the Inv 4+ Iron Halo and buy a Relic Blade + Combi-Plasma + Aux Gren Launcher + Melta bombs.

Is dropping to a 4+ over a 3+ worth it for the exta weapon? or should i just go all out attack with 2 CC weapons e.g. Lightning Claw + Relic Blade?

(amended for Relic Blade !)

Well, without a pistol you can aswell take a claw instead of the normal power weapon.

I find it strange that the relic blade is nowhere to be seen, IMO it seems like the "best" weapon of choice, simple high strength attacks at high initiative.

Whoops, always doing this I mean Relic Blade not PW.

My favorite outfit a captain is on a bike. This is my standard loadout.

Captain
* Bike
* Relic Blade
* Storm Shield / Artificer Armor (depending on spare points)
* Hellfire rounds (if I have a spare 10 points that needs a home)

Taking a captain on a bike allows you to take bikes as troops, which is very helpful. It also gives him a T5(4), the ability to move 12" and assault, and the ability to turbo-boost 24"

The relic blade gives your captain a STR of 6, which allows him to crunch many models. Vs T3 armies, such as Eldar, it does ID to characters as well.

The artificer armor / storm shield are varied, and there are perks to both. Often when I'm allocating shooting to a bike squad with the captain, ill throw the first wound on the cappy. If its a plasma weapon the 3+ storm shield helps. If its a bolter, the 2+ save helps.

Hellfire rounds have proved useful for me in the past. When they are on a bike, the rounds become relentless and twin-linked, allowing the cappy to get 2 poisoned (2+) shots while charging into combat. These can be useful if you are going to assault high toughness creatures, such as a 'fex or the deceiver.
I would not write home and tell everyone to take the hellfire rounds, but if you have a spare 10 points that need a home, its something to consider for a bike cappy.

I think the Aux Grenade Launcher is awesome Assault weapon, launching a krak or Frag every round! Whats not to like.

The price.

It is a hefty price tag for a short ranged 'nade launcher, there is alot of things that you can use those points for, insted of putting even more (rath inefficient) points on an already expensive HQ.

I don't know if you know this mwnciboo, but you cannot get +1 attacks for having 2 CC weapons with a relic blade. So on the charge you get 4 attacks.

This is an excellent question. First off though a Captain, or Master for that matter, can't take a Relic Blade if they are in Terminator Armor; which is a real shame since the Relic Blade is hands down the best piece of wargear in C:SM.

I have 2 types of captains I will use when not fielding Vulkan (or sometimes with him too).

Captain: Artificer Armor, SS, RB
Captain: Artificer Armor, RB, Space Marine Bike, Hellfire rounds

I disagree about the grenade launcher idea but ymmv. I just don't have a lot of luck with it. I wrote an article on the subject of generic HQ choices for Vanilla Marines, if you have the time check it out, here is the link Capture and Control: And They Shall Know No Fear: Generic HQ choices.

How do you take Hellfire rounds as an Option? I cannot see it in Army Builder. Oh, its in the Codex damn Lone Wolf!

But you get ID versus T3 for Strength 6 instead! Overwatch very nice I didn't see that in the article list, seriously we need to look at the search engine on this forum

I always try to fit in a relic blade, best weapon for him. kind of wish they didnt need to be a CC monster though. I liked having a cheap commander in 4th armed with a storm bolter

I either take a Captain on a Bike with a Relic blade/Shield or a Special Character as my Captain.

I wasn't saying the relic blade is bad. It is my favorite piece of wargear! Just sucks you can't get +1 attacks. Not a huge deal when your HQ is Vulkan and gets master crafted.

I personally liked this setup for a foot capt.

Relic Blade
Storm Bolter
Aux Nade launcher (expensive I know, but I like)
Art armor.

He ends up being rather killy.

xxBlazinGhostxx having seen the numbers of posts you've done this month you have managed to prove that Dakka is more addictive than crack.

I like my relic blade, arti armor, combimelta captain, effective and versatile.
In 4th ed. I used to run a PW/PP(mastercrafted PW/halo/AA/termie honors) captain but he ends up being mediocre in comparison in 5th, so I converted him over to a killteam PW/BP sarge. Shame really, I like that model a lot.

A setup I've been wanting to try is Relic Blade, Combi-melta, Hellfire rounds, Aux Grenade launcher, attached to a plasma command squad. Good punch in CC and at range.

Honestly, the simple allowance of a Relic Blade in termie armor would make it an actual useful choice since it would let you relentless fire a combi-plas.

I am pretty sure the reason relic blades aren't allowed for Terminator Armored Captains and Masters is because it would make the HQ unit way too powerful, they make you pay for that combo by buying Artificer Armor and a Storm Shield and docking you the larger base and relentless... I agree though, it would have been nice.

mwnciboo wrote:xxBlazinGhostxx having seen the numbers of posts you've done this month you have managed to prove that Dakka is more addictive than crack.

Lol, get it right, it's a week.

And I find TDA to be a rather pointless option. Relentless is nice, but most of his weaponry are assault weapons so yeah. Art armor can provide a better 2+ save. The 5++ the TDA gives is pointless due to you having a 4++ base. And you can't SA, but you can DS, which is a small advantage, but if I wanted to DS, I woulda gotten a Jump pack.

Aside from the marginally useful Teleporting, Relentless is the only advantage TDA gives you over Arti armor in 5th edition.
If you just want Relentless, take a bike, it's cheaper, gives you T4(5), and a TL bolter to put hellfire ammo in.
Relentless is marginally useful since the captain can take exactly two weapons that benefit from it, the bolter(taken for hellfire rounds generally), or a combi-bolter, most of which are assault weapons anyways.
If Relentless worked for orbital bombardment it would be must take wargear for every chapter master. But it doesn't.
The downsides to termie armor is pretty major too, you can only ride in a land raider and you can't sweeping advance. Plus you can't take a relic blade.

Let's look at it this way.
Captain, Relic Blade, Artificer Armor - 145
Captain, Lightning Claw, Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter - 145

Relic blade AA captain deals 2.22 wounds average to generic MEQ
The termie captain deals 2.01

They both have a 4+ invulnerable and a 2+ armor save, yet the relic blade captain is more killy vs anything T4 and higher and can sweeping advance whole units off the table if needs be. Plus he can hitch a ride on any old rhino if he has to, and if he's stuffed in a land raider he only takes one transport slot.
If the relic blade were made available for termie captains, say at a 10pt discount, it would hardly make them overpowered unstoppable juggernauts of doom, they'd have exactly the same CC ability as an AA captain and same durability to boot with all the disadvantages of termie armor thrown in for the points premium.
Yes, relentless is good, but a captain does not have the weapon options to make good use of it, the best you can do is relentless fire a combi weapon or hellfire bolter(better on a bike).

Infact, there's only one HQ choice terminator armor is terribly useful for in codex space marines, and that's the librarian because it's the only way to buy him an invulnerable save. Well, plus it's the best way to use Vortex of Doooooom.

Xeonicfront wrote:

Infact, there's only one HQ choice terminator armor is terribly useful for in codex space marines, and that's the librarian because it's the only way to buy him an invulnerable save. Well, plus it's the best way to use Vortex of Doooooom.

My most favorite tactic ever.

And it just annoys your opponents when that libby is just shutting down his powers and he really can't do anything to it.

Captain on Bike to unlock scoring bikers.
Anything else is a 'whatever, he's a black hole for points' sort of responce from me...

Sanctjud, well said.

The captain's real strength is melee, and he's probably your only I5 combatant, so the primary decision in equipping him is what melee weapon to bring. The thunder hammer drops his initiative to 1, which wastes one of the stats you pay for on him, I think hammer/fist belongs on a sergeant who is protected by a squad and doesn't have good initiative anyway. Power weapons and fists are inferior to other options so aren't worth considering.

So I think the only real choice is between the relic blade and a pair of lightning claws, and they're pretty evenly matched. The relic blade is a bit better against monstrous creatures than lightning claws, but the claws are much better at killing T3 and T4. The relic blade leaves one other weapon to upgrade, and both cost the same. I like lightning claws on a captain in an assault/bike/vanguard squad to cut down enemies before they can attack, and relic blade if he's going to shoot a bit like with a sternguard squad.

Whether to have a jump pack depends on if he's hanging with jump packers, and the bike is really more about the army build than the captain's gear. Terminator armor is only good for librarians or if you want to teleport. Other options are about available points rather than 'what's best' IMO.

mwn
relic blade and combi weapon are standard for me. I usually dont buy the storm shield bc he already has a 4++ for free. Other stuff is at the players discretion. Avoid melta bombs. they are the mark of the noob.
AF

mwnciboo wrote:How do you take Hellfire rounds as an Option? I cannot see it in Army Builder. Oh, its in the Codex damn Lone Wolf!

It should be an option, in Army Builder. If you're running an old version, you might want to update it. One thing I'd like to point out in your OP is that you didn't set any point limitations, so the various options and opinions you get are going to fluctuate greatly.

As for my favorite setup for a Captain, I've broken them down to point settings:

1850 Point Game - 150 Points
- Space Marine Bike
- Power Sword

2000 Point Game - 165 Points
- Space Marine Bike
- Relic Blade

2500 Point Game - 175 Points
- Space Marine Bike
- Relic Blade
- Combi-Melta

3000 Point Game - 195 Points
- Space Marine Bike
- Relic Blade
- Combi-Melta
- Artificer Armor
- Melta Bombs

In some of my lists, I run bikes, and when I do, I always take a Captain on a bike to make them Troop choices. Now obviously, if the game were to go beyond 3000 points, you could add more to him, but I generally try to keep his total value around 8% or less of what the total point allotment is. In games below 1850 points, I'd probably keep him at the setup I have at 1850.

The most important thing he brings to any list is the higher Initiative. Always try to find a way to take advantage of it. TH and PF are just as effective on Tact Squad Sgt's, save for the fact that the Capt has a higher WS. Storm Shields are alright, but not worth 15 points for a +1 to his Invul Save. Comb-weapons would serve a better purpose, since he has a higher BS than most Space Marines do already. Melta Bombs, as you can see, I would only take in bigger games, and that's usually only if I have the points to spare. I tend to stretch out my points into more units, than building up a few units with lots of upgrades. HQ units are the easiest units to build with all the options they have, and I've learned how to value each point I'm given in every game I play.

I am starting to get a feeling that alot of SM Players mount their Captains on Bikes, might be one to consider. +1 Toughness and massive movement, Hellfire twinlinked Bolter! I am thinking BIKE + RB + Hellfire 175pt or BIKE + PW + Hellfire 160pt !

Oh for the record you need to select a Combi or a bike for the captain and then Hellfire becomes available in the Options section on Army Builder!

mwnciboo wrote:How do you take Hellfire rounds as an Option? I cannot see it in Army Builder. Oh, its in the Codex damn Lone Wolf!

The option only shows up if you have a boltgun (bolter, combi-weapon, or bike) equipped.

If I've got the points I take (In order of priority):
Bike
Relic Blade
SS
AA
Melta Bombs/Hellfire Rounds

If I have the points to take all that Ive got a S6 T5 Beast in assault, who can put out some hurt on anything that isnt a vehicle with shooting

I can't think of any reason to take any foot captain over sicarius. Yeah, you can build a pretty cheap cap with Relic blade, but for 70pts more you get 2+ armor, Fnp, a re-roll for seizing, a veteran skill for a tactical squad, Rites of battle, and a plasma pistol.

I have 2 Captains currently:

The first is set-up to lead my 10-man Assault Squad
Jump Pack
Power weapon
Bolt Pistol
Aux grenade
Melta Bombs
Arti armor(sometimes depends on points)
He is Jumping off of a Tau Battlesuit arm(or what is left of one)that has a broken shield Generator(the Arm is painted to match my now-sold tau army) and he has a bionic Leg built out of the Rough terrain Modification from an IG sentinel.

The second Doubles as a Chapter master depending on Situation; and is usually the back-up to my Master of the Forge with Conversion Beamer.
Artificer armor
Power Sword
Chainsword
Aux Grenade Launcher
Digital weapons.
He is the AOBR Captain with the Bolter shaved off and a Chainsword arm replacing it, and the Aux grenade is a Sentinel Smoke launcher replacing the Left exhaust port on the backpack.

I have been thinking of building an All-Biker army So that Captain would have:
Bike
Thunder Hammer
Storm Shield
Although the model would just look scarier than it would actually be(with the Thunder hammer he may die before ever taking a swing)