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is it just me or do the latest chaos marine codex rules suck, demon princes used to be probably the hardest characters in the game, now a single squad of marines can take him out with ease. Abbadon has been around since the heresy yet he uses a sword that he has little control over and could kill him. and how is it that in an emperors children army (or any specialised army world eaters etc) that all your noise marines are fearless but a unit of terminators (assuming they were noise marines but got promoted to terminators) are no longer fearless, does having better armour make you more scared of damaging it?

I agree completely with all of those, except the DP. Its still rather good (READ-Not THE BEST!) +1 for the terminators.
"Oh No! I've Scratched my Leg Plate!" All Cult troops should have the option of taking terminator armour. As should Chosen.

I also agre with you , i dont think the DP is that bad but a heavy lack of options and stuff plus that god dammded "crazded" rule.

im sure in one of the Ultramarines books a chaos lord was a dreadnought or someone important, not a crazed lunatic that randomly shot whoever was closest.

idt the chaos codex does the army justice at all and it really needs to be redone since it just lacks so much fluff and interesting aspects which the newer codexs have.

I agree, I dont run dreads no more frenzy is a lame rule. Space Wolfs got the mighty unstopable Logan in a dread suit why can't chaos get fluff like that?

DP's can be kitted out to be ant-MEQ with Psychic Powers (infact they can be customised quite nicely, but not as well as C:CD DP's).

I completely agree with you on the termies, they are supposed to be the Elites of CSM and they aren't even Fearless. Abaddon's Daemonweapon should not 'rebel' and wound him on the roll of a one. I also abhor the Chaos Dreadnought's 'Crazed'/'Fire Frenzy' rule

I also have a huge issue with chaos vehicles and other troops.

First off our landraiders lose all their varients, AND power of the machine spirit (FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)

same goes for preds, rhinos, and we dont even GET some vehicles (drop pods, speeders, medusas, manticores)

We dont get awesome cool magic like Space puppies or blood emos. (JotWW is slowed) hell... he can take FOUR OF THE fething THINGS

Both SW and BA have troops/heavy/elites that make a MOCKERY of chaos stuff.. Longfangs are cheaper.. AND THEY GET TO SPLIT FIRE!? WTF. Thier dreads are 1000x better

DROP PODS. WTF, THEY EXISTED BEFORE THE HERESY, ATLEAST GIVE US THESE!

what else havn't i covered..

oh yea.... Death company. cost less then berzerkers. they have prefered enemy and fleet and furious charge and FNP... and counter attack... HOLY gak WTF

our best melee weapons (pretty much an angry version of wulfen attacks) but a 1 stops us attacking completely. AND we get hurt..

Our daemons are no longer unique, they just suck. and our greater daemons are the same (No more Initiative 10 keeper of secrets raping things D: or very angry flying blood thirster of dooooom)

In the end. Loyalist codexes get it WAY BETTER then us chaos marines.

and they going to update us for another 2-3 years. Im seeing another codex that makes wolves and BA more OP by then out to counter our new codex

Paraphrased:

Dear GW, we would like some cheese to go with our wine.

In order to be more productive, this thread should have more of a suggested rules focus, instead of a complaints focus. Most chaos players are already well aware of what’s wrong with the book.
I’ve personally read lot of good discussions on what’s specifically wrong with the current chaos book and I have also read a lot of fandexes/homebrew rules and none have really come close in capturing that streamlined feel in how a 5th edition Chaos Codex should feel.

I personally would like to discuss how Codex: Chaos Space Marines 5th Edition (Dakka Dakka Version) would look like with Codex: Space Wolves 5th Edition used as a template

candy.man wrote:In order to be more productive, this thread should have more of a suggested rules focus, instead of a complaints focus. Most chaos players are already well aware of what I think wrong with the book.

I’ve personally read lot of good discussions on what’s specifically wrong with the current chaos book and I have also read a lot of fandexes/homebrew rules and none have really come close in capturing that streamlined feel in how I think 5th edition Chaos Codex should feel.

I personally would like to discuss how Codex: Chaos Space Marines 5th Edition (Dakka Dakka Version) would look like copying Codex: Space Wolves 5th Edition

ftfy

Codex built off SW? ok, here's some stuff Ive got;

Chaos Sorcerer:
May be a sorcerer of slaanesh, nurlge or tzeentch for 30pts

Slaanesh: Increases Initiative by 1 and fleet, gives the sorcerer the Lash of Submission spell and Will of The Pleasure Prince.

Will of The Pleasure Prince: The aura of pleasure emanates from the sorcerer at all times. enemies who stray too close are onslaughted with overwhelming emotion and feeling.
Enemy models within 18'' of the sorcerer must take leadership and psyhic tests on a 8, or lower if it already was.

Nurgle: Increases toughness by 1, reduces initiative by 1, gives the sorcerer FNP. Also gives the sorcerer wind of chaos and Aura of Pestilence

Aura of Pestilence: The Sorcerer is a homestead of disease and poxes, the fumes are powerful and the disease spreads quickly. Enemies that are within 6'' on the start of the turn, end of movement phase, end of shooting phase, and end of assault phase take a str 3 hit. Enemies that are within 12'' of the sorcerer have their initiative and balistic skill reduced by 1.

Tzeentch: Grants the sorcerer a 3+ invulnerable save, and able to use two spells at a time. Gives the sorcerer the doom bolt (or warptime) and bolt of tzeentch. Also gives the sorcerer The Unending Change.

The Unending Change: The sorcerer is so well tuned with the warp, the area and its inhabitants around him are under constant change. Enemy psykers within 24'' of the sorcerer must take psychic tests on 3d6. Enemies within 18'' of the sorcerer must re-roll all successful to hit dice.

OR

The sorcerer may be a Blood Speaker of Khorne for 40pts

The Blood Speaker of Khorne loses its force weapon but gains a power weapon that adds +2str and instead of 1 attack while charging, he gains 2. The Blood speaker of khorne is also armed with Necklace of The Blood God, and the psychic spell "Blood Rage".

Necklace of The Blood God: this necklace was bathed in the blood at the base of the skull throne. It emanates an aura of Khorne himself. The Blood speaker may negate any psyker spell on a roll of 3+ if they psyker is within 24'' of the blood speaker. Also If any psyker tries to negate the Blood speaker's Blood Rage Spell, they immediately suffer perils of the warp. The Blood speaker and attached unit gains a 3+invulnerable to psychic attacks.

Blood Rage: This spell MUST be used at the start of the owning players turn. Pick an allied unit within 18'', if the spell is successful the chosen unit has the fleet and furious charge (+1 additional attack if they already have furious charge) special rules for the remainder of the turn. The unit must move towards the closest enemy unit, must run towards them, and assault if possible (these models also ignore difficult terrain). before the unit moves, they must pass a leadership check. if failed they lose one model as the boiling blood causes their head to explode.

The sorcerer may be a Sorcerer of Undivided Chaos for free.

He may take one normal psychic spell (doom bolt, gift of chaos, wind of chaos, warptime) Or Wraith of the Undivided

Wraith of the Undivided: if the spell is successful the sorcerer takes a wound with saves allowed.. then draw a line 18'' away from the sorcerer, any models touched by this are blasted with the power of pure chaos. Take a leadership test with a -2 modifier. If failed the unit will be afflicted by one of three abilities chosen by the caster.

ability1-Betrayal: The afflicted unit has been tempted by chaos.. temporarily, they may not move in the following movement phase, and must fire at the nearest ally. if they are in assault range do not fire, instead they must assault them. This effect ends on the end of the respective turn (if they are in combat, they disengage where they are as they released from the effects.

ability2-Crazed: The afflicted unit goes berzerk! in the following turn they must move towards the closest enemy unit or vehicle, run in the shooting phase, and assault if within range.

ability3-Horror: The afflicted unit has been driven mad by the chaos, they must fall back towards their table edge, on the start of their turn. roll a d6, on a 4+ they snap out of it, if not they continue running. if the enemy unit reaches the end of the board. roll a d6, on a 4+ they become sane again and may act normally.


may take a Chaotic Glyph ( may negate any psychic ability on a 4+ if they are within 24'') for 10 pts.

may take a Runed skull (Sorcerer and attached unit may re-roll to hit OR re-roll to wound. This may be done in the shooting or assault phase, not both) for 25pts

may take a plasma pistol
may have a familiar for 5, or cultist slave for 15 (slave does the same thing as a familiar, but may be sacrificed to cast another spell, even if the spell was used already)

Hows that for sorcerer fun?

sounds pretty cool, I hope we get this kind of variety for our princes and daemons too some time

bucketwalrus wrote:I also have a huge issue with chaos vehicles and other troops.

First off our landraiders lose all their varients, AND power of the machine spirit (FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)

same goes for preds, rhinos, and we dont even GET some vehicles (drop pods, speeders, medusas, manticores)

We dont get awesome cool magic like Space puppies or blood emos. (JotWW is slowed) hell... he can take FOUR OF THE fething THINGS

Both SW and BA have troops/heavy/elites that make a MOCKERY of chaos stuff.. Longfangs are cheaper.. AND THEY GET TO SPLIT FIRE!? WTF. Thier dreads are 1000x better

DROP PODS. WTF, THEY EXISTED BEFORE THE HERESY, ATLEAST GIVE US THESE!

what else havn't i covered..

oh yea.... Death company. cost less then berzerkers. they have prefered enemy and fleet and furious charge and FNP... and counter attack... HOLY gak WTF

our best melee weapons (pretty much an angry version of wulfen attacks) but a 1 stops us attacking completely. AND we get hurt..

Our daemons are no longer unique, they just suck. and our greater daemons are the same (No more Initiative 10 keeper of secrets raping things D: or very angry flying blood thirster of dooooom)

In the end. Loyalist codexes get it WAY BETTER then us chaos marines.

and they going to update us for another 2-3 years. Im seeing another codex that makes wolves and BA more OP by then out to counter our new codex

The Chaos Codex is supposed to represent a pre-heresy army with small elements of post-heresy (The basic Chaos Marines squad).

They only had one form of the Land Raider back then, with only test versions at the very most or other versions, and usually not even that.

Also, Chaos is taken over by Chaos... why should they get Machine Spirits? That's for the Traitor Tech Priests...

By the way, Death Company do not get preferred enemy, nor counter attack, NOR fleet...

I don't know where the heck you heard that from... but you're crazy...

You're lucky that you CAN control your Berzerkers...

Also can you keep the swearing down? ^-^

That all looks very neat for the Sorcerers. However, I am against a sorcerer equivilent follower of Khorne. Khornate models should never have access to spell like powers. I do however think that a generic Khorne specific HQ is needed. So maybe a 'Gladiator of Khorne' which has access to a non-rebelling Daemonweapon, a Psychic negation special rule, Furious Charge and some other Khorne specific things.

Gathering Storm is right about the sorrcerer bit , Khorne hates magic the only near khorne like magic thing is that great cannon thing and the lord of battles titan , and the Khorne gladiator sounds cool.

I was thinking that basic csm could get free icons (maybe only one) or could buy multible marks

Fabius should give free mutations

Blissgiver sucks without +1 str

bikers should be 10 points cheaper

noise marines cost 20 points per model but statline is the same as basic csm (exept +1 iniative which you can get trough icon) so I think free sonic blasters would be in order.

grayspark wrote:

bucketwalrus wrote:I also have a huge issue with chaos vehicles and other troops.

First off our landraiders lose all their varients, AND power of the machine spirit (FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)

same goes for preds, rhinos, and we dont even GET some vehicles (drop pods, speeders, medusas, manticores)

We dont get awesome cool magic like Space puppies or blood emos. (JotWW is slowed) hell... he can take FOUR OF THE fething THINGS

Both SW and BA have troops/heavy/elites that make a MOCKERY of chaos stuff.. Longfangs are cheaper.. AND THEY GET TO SPLIT FIRE!? WTF. Thier dreads are 1000x better

DROP PODS. WTF, THEY EXISTED BEFORE THE HERESY, ATLEAST GIVE US THESE!

what else havn't i covered..

oh yea.... Death company. cost less then berzerkers. they have prefered enemy and fleet and furious charge and FNP... and counter attack... HOLY gak WTF

our best melee weapons (pretty much an angry version of wulfen attacks) but a 1 stops us attacking completely. AND we get hurt..

Our daemons are no longer unique, they just suck. and our greater daemons are the same (No more Initiative 10 keeper of secrets raping things D: or very angry flying blood thirster of dooooom)

In the end. Loyalist codexes get it WAY BETTER then us chaos marines.

and they going to update us for another 2-3 years. Im seeing another codex that makes wolves and BA more OP by then out to counter our new codex

The Chaos Codex is supposed to represent a pre-heresy army with small elements of post-heresy (The basic Chaos Marines squad).

They only had one form of the Land Raider back then, with only test versions at the very most or other versions, and usually not even that.

Also, Chaos is taken over by Chaos... why should they get Machine Spirits? That's for the Traitor Tech Priests...

By the way, Death Company do not get preferred enemy, nor counter attack, NOR fleet...

I don't know where the heck you heard that from... but you're crazy...

You're lucky that you CAN control your Berzerkers...

Also can you keep the swearing down? ^-^

DC do get fleet. PE, and counter attack i have BA codex in hand but good counter argument. however drop pods, plasma cannons, whirlwinds, and land speeders all existed on both sides durring the heresy as per the books and the art books so in all honesty i can't see why chaos wouldn't get them

...Seriously? They're fleet? Lemme check...

Yeah, no they don't...

Relentless isn't fleet you know...

and they still don't have counter attack no matter how many times you say it...

and to have anything like preferred enemy they'd need Lemartes or Astrorath or a Chaplain...

I'm holding the Blood Angels 2010 right infront of me, and there is nothing about Death Company having that.

Death Company don't count as scoring either and you can only take only one unit per army. What has BA to do with chaos?

Khorne Daemon Weapon: Roll 2D6. On any double, one attack is dealt to the wielder and the rest on the opponent(s).

Sorcerer anti-psyker ability - sets them apart from a DP.
24" Mind of Chaos. If any psyker uses a power within 24" of a chaos sorcerer, roll 1d6 and add to the enemy psyker's roll for determining Warp attack. If the total is 12 or more, the enemy psyker is subjected to a warp attack. Their power is successfull or not on their own roll but this means they would also be subject to the Warp. If the enemy roll results in a Warp attack, the chaos psyker causes a second rebound attack. (e.g. Rune priest rolls a 9 and their power goes off but the chaos sorcerer rolls a 3 so the rune priest is also subject to Warp attack. 2nd Example: Eldrad rolls a 1, 1, 6 meaning his attack goes off but he is subject to the warp but the presence of the chaos sorcerer means Eldrad is subject to two attacks.)

Scrap the whole list and start from scratch is what I say!! This codex's main problem is that it ripped out the "flavor" of chaos. Playing this list is just like playing a simplified version of other loyalist lists.

The new codex should have a few similar items to the loyalist such as the bolter, terminator armour, some vehicles but after that it should veer from the path by leagues. It's chaos for warp's sake!!

Chaos dreadnoughts shouldn't crazy they should be twisted and corrupt. They should cause extreme fear in their enemies because they are dreadnoughts AND corrupted by chaos.

Chaos Terminators should have poor armour because of the millenium of disrepair but have amazing speed or power because of their corrupted elevated status.

What I want is the option to put Chosen in Terminator Armour, replacing standard Termies, Possessed replacing Daemons (now there's an exclusive army for them), Cultists for Fast Attack, More vehicles, better Abaddon (kill himself with his own sword?), and an improvement on Huron (just not appreciated because he's only marginally more powerful than a Chosen.) Also, more options on the existing units (LR variants, Dreadnought Sorcerer?)

I also think Sorcerer Dreadnoughts would be a great idea. I mean, c'mon, BA have fething Libby Dreads yet the 1ksons, who have even larger numbers of psykers in their ranks than the BA have ever had, don't have an equivilent...

These days it seems that for certain ascpects the BA codex would have a better flavour for use on a Chaos Space Marine Army.

Dreadnought sorrcerer

WS BS S I A Front armour side armour Rear armour
5 6 6 4 4 13 13 11

Pcychich powers : may take up to 2 pcychich powers from page 93 of codex chaos marines , units of the mark of Tzeentch may take 3.

May take one of the following
Mark of Tzeentch 35pts
Mark of Nurgle 25pts
Mark of Slaanesh 10pts

May take up to two of the following
Twin linkded las cannon 35pts Extra close combat weapon with inbuilt bolter 15pts
Las cannon 15pts Plasma cannon 25pts
Heavy Bolter 15pts Twin linkded plasma cannon 35pts

What do you think?

In Chaos Codex Land Raider should have Daemonic Possession as standard.

blood reaper wrote:
Sorcerer Dreadnought-120 points

WS-BS--S---I---A--F---S---R
5----5--6---4---4--13-13-11

Unit Type:
-Vehicle (Walker)

Number/squad:
-1

Wargear:
-Smoke Launchers
-Dreadnought Force Weapon

Special Rules:
-Psyker
-5+ Invurnerable Save

Options:
-A Sorcerer Dreadnought is a Psyker and must take 1 psychic power from page 93 of Codex Chaos Space Marines.
(models with the mark of Tzeentch may take one additional Psychic Power).

-May take one of the following:
--Mark of Tzeentch 30pts
--Mark of Nurgle 5pts
--Mark of Slaanesh 5pts

-The other arm must be armed with one of the following:
--Twin linked autocannon for 20pts
--Twin linked Lascannon for 35pts
--Twin linked Heavy Bolter for 15pts
--Multi Melta for 10pts
--Plasma cannon for 15pts
--A dreadnought close combat weapon
incorporating a storm bolter for 10 pts
(adds one to the number of attacks)

-May have extra armour for 15pts.
-May take a familiar for 10pts

Designers Note: MoN does not provide a bonus to armour values, it only allows the Sorcerer Dreadnought to take the psychic power Nurgles Rot

Fixed it for you and added more options.

Thank you , its some times difficult to type stats .

Alright - Good with the bad.

Chaos lord with mark qualifies discount on all units with the same mark. Marks upgraded to match the dedicated troops:

MoS: Fearless, +1 I, Can use Noise weapons.
MoK: Fearless, Furious Assault, +1 WS.
MoN: Fearless, +1 T, FnP
MoT: Fearless, 5+ Invul, or +1 Invul for already existing. Aspiring Sorc instead of Aspiring Champion - +25 gets force weapon. May take 1 psyker ability.
MoCU: Reroll Morale.

CAN BE TAKEN FOR ANY UNIT: CSM, Terminator, Biker, etc.

I know this is the old codex but it made the armies fluffy without 25 separate codexes. (e.g. SM, SW, BA, DA, BT...)

Bring back the old vehicle upgrades - (+1 armor) Let demonic possession include a weaker form of machine spirit.
(Alright my BS is reduced to 3 but make it so I can always fire one weapon at a different target.)

+1 armor? No way.. then every army would have to have that to be fair...