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Whenever a Dakka Discussion degenerates into "cheese/not cheese/OP!/IMBA!"- fights (see: broken armies of 8th edition thread) certain memories from my gaming days keep popping up... and of course, I have a screenname I should better represent, so here's the deal:

Broken or Brilliance? the dirty tricks you never thought of... while your opponent did!
In any Warhammer (fantasy/40k) player's gaming life, there will be a moment of shock, surprise, WTF! and "No effing waaaay!" followed by feelings of remorse, admiration and utter hatred for the guy who pulled that nasty trick on you. A ploy so unconventional and specific that it never would have occurred to you, or anyone you know (but that guy who just did it). It is all perfectly sound within the rules, not hinging on the roll of the dice nor on errors on your part, but a smart, nay, brilliant train of thought that utterly wrecked your battle-plan, best unit, greatest character or even all three!

So, after the ado: what was the Nastiest Ploy in Fantasy or 40k that an opponent used against you?

rules for posting:

- The ploy may involve some luck, but should not be about passing that crucial break-test, rolling that all important 6 to wound etc. The basis of the ploy must be well-conceived.
- No stories on cheaters, the ploy must be legal, but things that bend the rules to breaking point should be told by all means!
- you may post your own dirty tricks as well
- It should be a trick of unimaginable cunning!

As an example, I will, unlike I claimed previously, recount my tale of shock, admiration and deep felt hatred for a guy named Adri... for the very last time and I will make no further references on it from now on.

It was an informal FLGS 1500 points tournament run by and for the regulars (that's about 8 guys). I played my trusted Empire army.
In my first game I faced Adri, with his Lizardmen.
It involved a skink hero with the heart of woe and potion of strength, and a Slann mage priest who happened to get the spell apotheosis with uncanny regularity.

the Heart of Woe
Explodes when the bearer is slain, each model within a radius equal to the bearer's original W value takes an automatic hit at a S equal to the bearer +d6. A wounded model suffers d6 wounds

potion of strength
The same as today: +3 strength

Apotheosis High magic spell-remains in play
A friendly model gets reanimated/resurrected with his original equipment except for mounts and can be used normally while the spell remains in play.

So... The skink hero charges into battle against a unit of halberdiers at the centre of my line and quaffs his potion of strength. He kills a halberdier and is killed by the unit champion and another halberdier-> heart of woe explodes, carnage. but I'm glad it's over with... or is it?

Magic Phase: Slann casts apotheosis with the total power card (irresistible force) and brings back the skink hero who proceeds to my unit of 5 knights+general issuing a undeclinable challenge (no rear ranks to retreat to) after quaffing his potion of strength... On the one hand, I felt it would be stupid to have a skink hero tie up my units, on the other hand... there is a saying about a donkey, a stone and the word "twice"... I decided to -sigh- kill him again and hope that I'd get a chance to dispel further apotheoses... Nope.

To be short, Adri managed to suicide bomb me 3 times in a single game! I think he even managed to destroy my steam tank...

The guy won the tournament with this nasty trick.

so, go ahead, tell your tales of woe and unimaginable cunning... from any edition 40k or fantasy

final edit: extra conditions, see rules for posting

Well, I read an article on BoLS on how to do something that sounds illegal, but is a loophole. It is called "slingshotting", where if your unit (a) wants to assault enemy (c), but is too far away (14"-2 over assault range), you can have them move forward, and have an IC that is 2" in front of them join squad (a) so that they are now in assault range. With defenders react and pile in moves, you can get most of the models into assault. This just seems kind of dirty, and very hard to pull off, so you'd have to plan it in advance and make it a part of your list, which (IMHO) makes you a waac.

OK so it's not really what you'd call a dirty trick, just something I should have seen coming. My ten man company veteran squad got lashed out of cover and then battle-cannoned. Two models remained :(

This was the first time I'd come up against the lash and I won't soon forget it

model_bits_matt wrote:OK so it's not really what you'd call a dirty trick, just something I should have seen coming. My ten man company veteran squad got lashed out of cover and then battle-cannoned. Two models remained :(

This was the first time I'd come up against the lash and I won't soon forget it

enlighten me on this "lash-thing" please

Lash of Submission: It's a CSM psychic power which basically let's an opponent move a unit 2D6". Very, very annoying lol.

Lash of submission (aka fzorgle) is a Slaaneshi psychic power. It allows you to move an enemy unit a random distance.

You can reform, clump string them out, whatever, to get them where you want them.

In this case, clump them up and drop a str8 Battlecannon on them. Nasty.

It is versatile, and a goto for Chaos Space Marine lists.

How did the fzorgle name come about?

model_bits_matt wrote:How did the fzorgle name come about?

It's the noise a LoS makes.

Makes sense to me

model_bits_matt wrote:Lash of Submission: It's a CSM psychic power which basically let's an opponent move a unit 2D6". Very, very annoying lol.

skrulnik wrote:Lash of submission (aka fzorgle) is a Slaaneshi psychic power. It allows you to move an enemy unit a random distance.

You can reform, clump string them out, whatever, to get them where you want them.

In this case, clump them up and drop a str8 Battlecannon on them. Nasty.

It is versatile, and a goto for Chaos Space Marine lists.

Ooh, that's nasty... but if it's an obvious choice it's not a case of unimaginable cunning... only for those in the Dark about the secrets of the CSM dex...

Nah, it's okay, it would have surprised me for sure

i was shown the lash the hard way, i had a squad of twenty-five genetealer initates (conscripts with I4). they got lashed together and then devestator squaded apart.

A grave guard bunker charged my Slave Giant the other day,

Me: "Well, there goes the giant, but at least he'll do something fun."
Opponent: "My Vamp Lord has the Sword of Bloodshed, Eternal Hatred, and Red Fury."

For those not in the know, that means his Vampire Lord had 7 S5 attacks that always re-rolled to hit, and he gets an additional attack for every successful wound he causes.

Needless to say, my Giant fell over pretty quick.

His crazy vamp lord then went on to kill my Tyrant too. After the game(I beat him barely) he said he was surprised how much damage the Vamp Lord caused in CC. Really....

Using deployment to setup a first turn charge for my Savage Orc Warboss on Wyvern, getting the first turn, declare charge, call the Waaagh! Then suddenly, my opponent tells me that in his club, all Scenery is 'infinitely high' thus meaning my Large Target behind the wood it can normally see and indeed charge over (as per 7th Ed Fantasy rulebook) cannot now make his charge, leaving me slap bang in the vision of 3 Repeater Boltthrowers, instead of introducing his general's teeth to his general's ringpiece.

gakker.

Mr Mystery wrote:Using deployment to setup a first turn charge for my Savage Orc Warboss on Wyvern, getting the first turn, declare charge, call the Waaagh! Then suddenly, my opponent tells me that in his club, all Scenery is 'infinitely high' thus meaning my Large Target behind the wood it can normally see and indeed charge over (as per 7th Ed Fantasy rulebook) cannot now make his charge, leaving me slap bang in the vision of 3 Repeater Boltthrowers, instead of introducing his general's teeth to his general's ringpiece.

gakker.

Pretty sure you can't call the Waaagh! on the first turn(and I am not thinking about 40k either).

Oh you can indeed. Trust me on this one.

Mr Mystery wrote:Using deployment to setup a first turn charge for my Savage Orc Warboss on Wyvern, getting the first turn, declare charge, call the Waaagh! Then suddenly, my opponent tells me that in his club, all Scenery is 'infinitely high' thus meaning my Large Target behind the wood it can normally see and indeed charge over (as per 7th Ed Fantasy rulebook) cannot now make his charge, leaving me slap bang in the vision of 3 Repeater Boltthrowers, instead of introducing his general's teeth to his general's ringpiece.

gakker.

It's a cause for argument between you two, it's lame, but no dirty trick of unimaginable cunning neatly within the rules of play. This guy actually "invents" a completely bogus/lame rule on the spot if I take your post at face value.

The whole "how does terrain work" should be discussed before starting the game, heck, even before deployment! If not, then the BRB should be referred to (true LoS isn't it?). Also, it is unclear if you are actually AT the club or some place else, where he shouldn't even have the right to claim this rule to be in effect mid-game. while, if you were actually at the club, he should have informed you on the house rules/you could have inquired on them.

I was playing in a huge Apoc game a while back (back when I played World Eaters). I was fielding Angron and his retinue of seven Bloodthirsters (the formation from the old White Dwarf). It was a 6 on 6 game with 3000 points for each player. One of the players was fielding Daemonhunters.

I had never played against Daemonhunters before, so I did not know what to expect. Apparently, every wound caused by a Nemesis Force Weapon against a Daemon automatically kills it regardless of their immunity to Instant Death. He also told me they don't get saves from them.

I didn't find out he was bullshiting me until after the game. He was a member of our gaming club, and when he was confronted with it he tried to deny it. However, I was (and still am) a veteran of the club. They believed me and he was kicked from the club, and by default, banned from the store. We later found out he had stolen over 300 dollars from the club's funds.

model_bits_matt wrote:How did the fzorgle name come about?

Posted By Triggerbaby on 08/07/2007 1:46 PM

The rules for the Lash aren't entirely clear, but it looks like one might be able to target enemy units in close combat. And naturally, once somebody asks the question, Gav will immediately pipe up and give an enthusiastic albeit unofficial yes. Because he is a goddam sped.


But the possibilities for abuse are both game breaking and amusing!

Charged by my Beserkers? Fzorgle! You will be charged again next turn by my Furious Repeating Charge!
My Oblits are stuck in combat with Scarabs? Fzorgle! Not when the Scarabs love the great taste of leaving combat to jump into dangerous terrain on the lava tables.
I have been charged by your Slugga Boys? Fzorgle! I think you'll find they prefer to stand in a circle front of my Defiler.
And let's not forget that if normal targeting rules are superceded, you can always fzorgle independant characters out of attached units and into harm's way.

Even outside the balance issues, the lash is just a terrible idea. It adds more movement to the round, and movement is the most time-intensive aspect of game. Large units take a couple of minutes to move, particularly for players who are used to moving small units. Like Chaos players. And as mentioned before, it sanctions your opponent to put his greasy sausage fingers on your models. I don't want your Cheetos dust on my Talos, fatty, and I'm assuming the sentiment is mutual.

Oh, and I love how it forces a pinning test on top of the movement. It's like the designers weren't sure if anybody would want it. I envision the following: "All it does is move enemy units? Disgusted snort. Hey, stupid person, we're trying to get rid of the useless, fluffy wargear that so bothered everybody in the last edition. Fix it, post haste. Limpwristed dismissal accompanied by small fart."

Lastly, I vote for calling our new friend the Fzorgle PrinceTM. It sounds stupid and makes absolutely no sense, just like the Lash Of Fzorgling itself.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/179282.page#180065

me----I have this rather big battlewagon for my orks. I put a nasty nob squad and a big mek with a Kff. Not only does my Wagon get a +4 cover save, my 60-90 orks that around the hull get it, and the Kan Wall in front of them do too. See the others players usually say "oh I got 3 large blast templates coming down and loads killing orks hahha" to "what the hell, why does everything get a cover save I hate you wahhhhhhhhhhh"

Also I use the strenguard drop pod trick, that pisses off many people.

The only really dirty trick done to me is lash, man I hate lash.

Ultrafool wrote:

Also I use the strenguard drop pod trick, that pisses off many people..

Oh do tell.

Yea tell it, never seen one before actually

Well you get a ten man sternguard with combi-Meltas, then you combat squad near tanks such as leman russ squads and blow them up first turn. One time one 5 man squad killed a squad of russes and and the other a hell hound.

Or you drop with 5 combi meltas and 5 plasmas, then drop near a land raider, shoot the meltas at raider, then rapid fire guys inside with plasmas (usually terminatiors). killing the scarest thing first turn, or slowing it down.

haha, that infinitely high terrain bit was a really dirty thing to pull! I'll bet if he was the one going over/through the wooded area it would have been TLoS.

There are always those times when someone tells you a rule and you just have to look it up for yourself before continuing, usually when someone is using Necrons, usually when they are using a Lord with wargear

Ultrafool wrote:Well you get a ten man sternguard with combi-Meltas, then you combat squad near tanks such as leman russ squads and blow them up first turn. One time one 5 man squad killed a squad of russes and and the other a hell hound.

Or you drop with 5 combi meltas and 5 plasmas, then drop near a land raider, shoot the meltas at raider, then rapid fire guys inside with plasmas (usually terminatiors). killing the scarest thing first turn, or slowing it down.

Is that legal? I thought that since you all shoot at the same time then you can't shoot troops inside a transport that has been wrecked by previous fire?

40k rulebook P67 says that a squad is taken to fire simultaneously so you can't shoot a tank with a lascannon and then finish off the occupants with the squad's bolters. Since combat squadding counts each 5 man squad as being entirely separate it looks like it's within the rules.

Ah...I didn't think about them deploying by drop pod...hmm, might have to try that one!

One I have pulled in a doubles tournie our army was IG and Eldar

Round One against BA and SM (Dawn of War) they had 1st turn and a Land Raider and Mephiston set up on the halfway line, we had a seer council hidden away.they move everything up full speed and fail to kill anything (nightfight for the win). Our turn one on comes my vendetta 12" and spotlights mephiston, on an angle comes my Psyker Battle Squad in chimera using 'weaken resolve' check for range oh there 31" away out of range for psychic hood shame. Eldar Farseer uses mindwar on mephiston who is now Ld 2 (weaken resolve reduces Ld by number of psykers in squad in this case 9) mephistons psychic hood can't stop mind war (now he's Ld2) and each player rolls a dice adding thier Ld and the difference is the number of wounds without armour saves the opponent has to take (in this case 8!) Mephiston goes pop (no invul save). Nice guys felt really bad pulling this on them.

I have used battlewagons to drive troops off of objectives before. The last time I performed this offense, I won though I only controlled one objective. I was, with my battlewagons contesting the other three. I kind of felt bad, it was my opponent's first time playing his Tyranids. Of course, he had demolished me with the combination of ten wraithguard, a warlock, a farseer and a wraith lord more than once, so it was sweet while it lasted. Next time we played, he'd finished his two Tervigons, so I went back to being his bitch. (It really hurts an Ork player to be outnumbered... )

The last time I applauded my opponent was as he used faithweaver daemons against me.
He used boon of mutation against my executioner (!), then bolt of tzeentch against a chimera and the flaming attack (dont know the english name, can be breath of chaos or something like this) against an infantry squad. After this he charged the executioner.

Well done, mate!

The one with psykers and mind war is nice too

My Favorite is from way back with my Wood Elves. Playing in a tournament, and the scenario has each player assigning up to 1000 pts of victory points on 3 pieces of terrain. You each place your little scraps of paper face down, under/in the piece of terrain. There was a large forest in the middle, so my Orc and Goblins opponent puts one under it, as do I. It was pretty clear by the way the game was going that he had put all 1000 pts on the forest one, and he had shut down my magic phase by early killing of my high lvl mage, leaving a lowly lvl 1. At the end of the game I move a unit up to try and "contest', but was one inch short. Last turn begins, he moves a unit of wolf riders next to the terrain, claiming it. Bottom of last turn? I cast Tree Singing on the forest, moving it towards my guys, for the many thousand point victory!