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I have recently switched to Imperial Fists, fielding Lysander as my HQ choice. After playing just 2 games, I have come to the realisation that there is little this CC beast cannot kill. He can bend most special characters over a barrel, and pop Land Raiders and Moniliths and any lesser vehicle with little effort. Toughness 8? Dreadnoughts? lol.

He needs to be swamped pretty bad to be taken out. Statisticaly you need 48 power weapon attacks assuming Str 4 and WS6 or lower (48 attacks, 24 hit, 12 wound, 8 saved and 4 failed on a 3+ save= dead) or 96 regular attacks assuming Str 4 and WS 6 or lower. His biggest weaknesses are his moblity, lack of range, and initiative 1, and the fact he can only be anywhere once.

Can you think of a list of single model non-apoc MCs/ICs/SCs/walkers that can take him out in 1 on 1 combat? I can think of a few but not many:

Nightbringer/Deciever
Ghazthraka on his special Waaagh maybe
Some other EW ICs might have a chance

Tau's very own Aun'Va. Lysander'd laugh himself to death.

Possibly the Swarmlord after knocking him down to WS BS 1

This is one of the many possible reasons I run a Libby with Null Zone and XXXXX

Grey Knight Grand Master, one unsaved wound and he's gone.

The Swarmlord
Mephiston
Ghazkghull Mag Uruk Thrakka, assuming that he gets to use his Waaagh!
Abaddon the Despoiler, assuming decent rolls for his Daemon Weapon
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver

Swarmlord. If he gets off psychic power its easy. Even without the WS 1 debuff he would win. 6 attacks with rerolls to hit, which hit on 3's, will wound on 2+ and Lysander will have to reroll made saves.

MinMax wrote:The Swarmlord
Mephiston
Ghazkghull Mag Uruk Thrakka, assuming that he gets to use his Waaagh!
Abaddon the Despoiler, assuming decent rolls for his Daemon Weapon
The Nightbringer
The Deceiver

Why Mephiston? Its a 3+ invul save vs no invul save. Both are wounding on 2s, and after the first round of combat, meph is striking at init 1.

Old Zogwort can probably take him if he transforms him to a Squig first

Marneus Calgar in the same codex.
The Avatar of Khaine.
Bloodthirster.
Keeper of Secrets.
Great Unclean One.
Skarbrand.
Kugath.

I don't think Mephiston would do it though. He'd get slapped with a T-hammer and go at I1 next turn

Only the old force weapons pose a threat

Ku'gath SP? maybe 6 wounds $++ and poisoned MC attacks are nice

scubasteve04 wrote:I have recently switched to Imperial Fists, fielding Lysander as my HQ choice. After playing just 2 games, I have come to the realisation that there is little this CC beast cannot kill. He can bend most special characters over a barrel, and pop Land Raiders and Moniliths and any lesser vehicle with little effort. Toughness 8? Dreadnoughts? lol.

He needs to be swamped pretty bad to be taken out. Statisticaly you need 48 power weapon attacks assuming Str 4 and WS6 or lower (48 attacks, 24 hit, 12 wound, 8 saved and 4 failed on a 3+ save= dead) or 96 regular attacks assuming Str 4 and WS 6 or lower. His biggest weaknesses are his moblity, lack of range, and initiative 1, and the fact he can only be anywhere once.

Can you think of a list of single model non-apoc MCs/ICs/SCs/walkers that can take him out in 1 on 1 combat? I can think of a few but not many:

Nightbringer/Deciever
Ghazthraka on his special Waaagh maybe
Some other EW ICs might have a chance

the swarm lord has a pretty good shot at killing lysander. abaddon does too. gazkull charging of course. sisters cannonness provided she doesnt run out of faith points.
cant think of much else. lysander is a beast.
AF


Automatically Appended Next Post:
mephiston will die horribly vs. lysander.

What special rules does Abbadon have to kill Lysander (not familiar with choas)

he hits before lysander and can throw out enough high quality attacks to get past his storm shield. He has 4 wounds, a 4++ save and Eternal Warrior to help him live through lysander's hammer attacks. Its a toss up who would win.
AF

scubasteve04 wrote:What special rules does Abbadon have to kill Lysander (not familiar with choas)

Higher WS, better chance to wound, more attacks. He'll average 1.32 wounds to Lysander per round while taking .625 in return.

I don't think anything beats Abbadon on average.

also a 1/6 chance he won't attack and 1/12 chance he'll take a wound ... go daemon weapons

yeah. there's a high luck factor involved here. it's awful when he gets a 1. but nothing can stand before him when he ges a 6. I've watched him carve through 400 points of blood crushers in one game turn.

the Avatar...really?! He'd be dead by the second round.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:the Avatar...really?! He'd be dead by the second round.

Avatar does .740 wounds to Lysander.

Lysander does .625 to the Avatar.

They both have 4 wounds, so Lysander loses.

avatar with fortune maybe.

No, naked and solo Avatar wins the wound race.

Are you sure he only does .625 wounds per round? Assuming hes hitting on 4+ (dont know avatar stats) with mastercraft reroll thats about 2 hits, probably 2 wounds, 1 saved with I am assuming a 4+ invul.

scubasteve04 wrote:Why Mephiston? Its a 3+ invul save vs no invul save. Both are wounding on 2s, and after the first round of combat, meph is striking at init 1.

Mephiston is hitting on 3s, while Lysander is hitting on 4s. Mephiston also has 5 attacks, and 5 wounds. Lysander has only 3 attacks, and 4 wounds.

Mephiston has better than average odds to be re-rolling both hits and wounds every turn, thanks to his Transfixing Gaze. And even when Lysander does pass the test, Mephiston can still activate his Unleash Rage psychic power.

Lysander will almost certainly kill Mephiston in three turns. With re-rolls, Mephiston will manage to hit Lysander approximately 13.33 times over three turns. If we assume that Lysander failed his leadership test against Transfixing Gaze twice, he's forced to take approximately 12 invulnerable saves. Which is precisely enough to kill him.

Well... Mephiston doesn't beat Lysander into the ground, but he does all right for himself.

DarknessEternal wrote:Marneus Calgar in the same codex.
The Avatar of Khaine.
Bloodthirster.
Keeper of Secrets.
Great Unclean One.
Skarbrand.
Kugath.

These aren't very likely... considering Lysander's amazing Invulnerable save, and re-roll to hit every turn. He won't obliterate them immediately, but at best they'll die together.

Out of this list, Marneus Calgar poses the greatest threat.

Nope, forgot master-crafting. So Lysander does .73 wounds per round. Still dies, probably at the same time.

Vect could do it. 6 attacks, hitting on 3's and re-rolling misses. 3's to wound with a 2++ save. He should put 4 wounds on Lysander before he rolls a "1" on his shadowfield.

DarknessEternal wrote:Nope, forgot master-crafting. So Lysander does .73 wounds per round. Still dies, probably at the same time.

2 attacks /2 *5/6 /2 = .416

1 attack *3/4 *5/6 /2 = .3125
.416+.3125 = ~.73

I think many of you think Lysander has 4 attacks.

I'll have to echo the "ancient Force Weapon of Doom" sentiments, one missed save and you can kiss your Eternal Warrior goodbye...

DarknessEternal wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:Nope, forgot master-crafting. So Lysander does .73 wounds per round. Still dies, probably at the same time.

2 attacks /2 *5/6 /2 = .416

1 attack *3/4 *5/6 /2 = .3125
.416+.3125 = ~.73

I think many of you think Lysander has 4 attacks.

Even with that math, its still a dead-on draw. With Thunderhammer, those killing blows are gonna be done to each other at the same time.

Abaddon, Kharn, Zogwort, Avatar, Asurmen, Karandras, Jain Zar, Ahriman (for gift and his force weapon).

TRISKELION7 wrote:Kharn, Karandras, Jain Zar, Ahriman (for gift and his force weapon).

...No.

No, absolutely not.

Lysander munches these punks in 1-2 turns, tops. He'd barely break a sweat.

scubasteve04 wrote:
Even with that math, its still a dead-on draw. With Thunderhammer, those killing blows are gonna be done to each other at the same time.

Your question:

Can you think of a list of single model non-apoc MCs/ICs/SCs/walkers that can take him out in 1 on 1 combat? I can think of a few but not many:

You did not state anyone had to live, only that Lysander die.

Also, Vect has a 63% chance of being dead 4 rounds into combat (which is how long he needs to kill Lysander). So, maybe.