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what do you think about it?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/a/achilles.pdf

I think it's overpowered. It basically sticks two fingers up at people that rely on lance/meltas to kill tanks (DEldar/Eldar) and forces you to shell out for the horrific cost of mass lascannons if you don't want it riding into your lines, shelling everyone to buggery and melting all your tanks.

Ordanance, Railguns, MCs and high strength CC attacks are the only things now apart from mass-AV that have a chance against it, but I doubt it'll be long beofre you get ordanance immune or MC immune raiders too.

It is awesome I want 5 of them. Now

Asherian Command wrote:It is awesome I want 5 of them. Now

are you actually gonna get 5?!
i'm getting at least 1 (maybe 2)

maybe 3. Not 5.

well, its transport capacity is only 6, so it can't take terminators.

doesnt this make it basically a mobile thunderfire with some melta, for 300pts?

oh and first post. Hey guys.

Almarine wrote:well, its transport capacity is only 6, so it can't take terminators.

doesnt this make it basically a mobile thunderfire with some melta, for 300pts?

oh and first post. Hey guys.

Welcome To Dakka Dakka!

And yes it cannot carry terminators and it is invulnerable to meltas and lances.

For those interested in knowing how tough it is to kill, here's the number of hits required to destroy one, assuming it does not pop smoke or benefit from cover. The numbers in brackets are for if you spend 20 points on a Storm Bolter and a Hunter-Killer Missile, and don't fire the HK.

Working:


Str D, AP 1 - 1.7 hits (1.8 hits)
Str 10, AP 1 - 6.5 hits (7.2 hits)
Str 10, AP 2+ - 11.1 hits (12.7 hits)
Str 9, AP 1 - 12 hits (13.5 hits)
Str 9, AP 2+ - 20.6 hits (24 hits)
Str 8, AP 1 - 72 hits (108 hits)
Str 8, AP 2+ - 144 hits (216 hits)

If you don't have ready access to Str 9+ weapons, killing it at range is next to impossible. And assuming the Subterranian Burst mode counts as a defensive weapon, the Achilles can move 12" and cause its pursuers to take Difficult Terrain tests and still fire one of its twin Multi-Meltas, which should also make it more or less invulnerable to melee.

That is pretty hard to kill.

Why didn't they make it haywire immune as well i wonder

Edit: they felt it needed an achilles' heel perhaps?

Yep. Thats why I want it!

Well it is a Land Raider for +50 points, it has 4 TL Multi-meltas instead of 2 TL las and it has a Thunderfire instead of a Heavy Bolter.

It only has transport capacity of 6, so no termies but you can include a combat squad and an HQ or a command squad and an HQ. You can also use it to reposition a squad in the late game, or just get one of your Combat Squads an extra 6" of movement at the beginning of the game. Terminators of course increase the cost of the tank anyway "all your eggs in one basket" as they say.

I think it is a cool tank for people who prefer melta over las. The Thunderfire seems a little weird tbh but it gives the tank range if it needs it.

Ironically its weakness is actually other assault units, as mentioned. Dreads, Chainfists, Monstrous Creatures, Thunder Hammers.

Nice tank for people who like Imperial Fists although I never thought of them as being "melta" before.

Tacobake wrote:Ironically its weakness is actually other assault units, as mentioned. Dreads, Chainfists, Monstrous Creatures, Thunder Hammers.

No, it's not. It can move 12" and still fire 2 of its 3 main weapons (meaning you need 6s to hit), and one of those weapons forces you to take difficult terrain tests, meaning you're going to have an even harder time getting close.

well, about the no-termie problem- TAGK in a 3-man squad allied!

shrike wrote:well, about the no-termie problem- TAGK in a 3-man squad allied!

Oh god, don't joke about that, that unit could take an army on by itself.

I think overpowered/underpowered is the wrong dichotomy to apply here.

In an all-out ARD BOYZ style environment, players knowing their stuff, playing every angle, relishing the challenge, pulling every trick? There, the Achilles isn't overpowered. Arguably, while tough, it's overpriced.

In a "casual" setting, drop-in game, play-your friends-style 40K. It's a serious killer of fun.

My main gripe with it is, that unless you specifically prepare for it, the best thing most armies can do is simply ignore/avoid it, concentrate on the rest and hope this doesn't cost you the game. You can simply not interact with it reasonably, not "play" against it, just shrug and do something different.

It's worse than overpowered IMO, it's just not fun.

On a slight tangent, I wish you had not put in a "don't care" option. It serves no purpose other then to siphon votes away from other choices for no reason at all - the people who "don't care" already have a vote - not reading or participating in this thread.

what's the deal with the IA books are they pseudo lega for tournaments or what??

Our local FLGS owner said he's not allowing it but I'd rather not run into this kinda silly stuff down the road

AlexHolker wrote:

Tacobake wrote:Ironically its weakness is actually other assault units, as mentioned. Dreads, Chainfists, Monstrous Creatures, Thunder Hammers.

No, it's not. It can move 12" and still fire 2 of its 3 main weapons (meaning you need 6s to hit), and one of those weapons forces you to take difficult terrain tests, meaning you're going to have an even harder time getting close.

The Land Raider Achilles can only fire a single weapon, if it moves 12". A normal vehicle that moves at Cruising Speed cannot fire any weapons, at all. With Power of the Machine Spirit, it may fire one.

personally as its more of an apocalype only kind of tank i think its not that good. shoot it with a destroyer weapon and bang goes 300+ points

I know the game mechanic in Apoc changes significantly. But Being immune to melta & Lance at AV 14, I thought we were done with monolith sillyness.

Also TFC are kind devastating on their own, plop it on a land raider & it's now pretty damn good. I'd say hike the points to 400.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:I know the game mechanic in Apoc changes significantly. But Being immune to melta & Lance at AV 14, I thought we were done with monolith sillyness.

Also TFC are kind devastating on their own, plop it on a land raider & it's now pretty damn good. I'd say hike the points to 400.

+1.

MinMax wrote:The Land Raider Achilles can only fire a single weapon, if it moves 12". A normal vehicle that moves at Cruising Speed cannot fire any weapons, at all. With Power of the Machine Spirit, it may fire one.

The Thunderfire Cannon can be fired as a S4 weapon. Doesn't this mean that Subterranean Blasts count as Defensive Weapons?

AlexHolker wrote:

MinMax wrote:The Land Raider Achilles can only fire a single weapon, if it moves 12". A normal vehicle that moves at Cruising Speed cannot fire any weapons, at all. With Power of the Machine Spirit, it may fire one.

The Thunderfire Cannon can be fired as a S4 weapon. Doesn't this mean that Subterranean Blasts count as Defensive Weapons?

Yes, it does.

However, when you move 12" (cruising speed), you don't get to fire anything per the BRB. Power of the Machine Spirit let's you shoot 1 thing.

However, you can move 6", fire the Multimelta sponson twice (twin-linked) , fire the thunderfire at strength 4, then fire the other multimelta sponson with PotMS.

Looks to me like an AV 14 Thunderfire cannon that can move and shoot. I would take it just for that.

They can be killed, you just need to find their Land Raider Achillies heel.

In a casual game, i think it's quite overpowered, specifically because of the ferromantic invulnerablity. For some armies at least (Eldar, DEldar) Melta and Lances are their only reliable anti tank, and this completely screws it over.

However in a tournament setting, where you should be ready for everything, it's only slightly overpowered, maybe a small price hike.

Well according to the fluff a land raider is supposed to be next to unkillable. Now we have a tank that lives up to the name. I'm for the anti-lance anti-melta rule. subtracting 1 from damage rolls seems like a bit much but I like the way they're thinking. For the biggest baddest tank space marines have, and as expensive as they are, land raiders ought to be tough to kill. In the current meta they're harder than normal to kill but not really a challenge to an opponent who builds with land raiders in mind. That being said its offensive capabilities seem underwhelming to me. Armor 14 and all those special rules are great defensively but the best defense is still to kill them before they kill you, and there are definitely killier things you can do with your 300 points than buy a thunderfire cannon and two twin linked melta guns. I like that the multi meltas short range dovetail with the land raider's assault vehicle rule.

I think Forge World has the right idea here but the price needs to come down 50 points before I'd call it a great tank. As it stands I'd say its ok, maybe even good, but not great or overpowered. AF

I selected "dont care"

Why?

My meta is DEVOID of Apoc matches. The most recent was the Nid invasion of last year, so why should ANYONE here be scared of this questionable cube of power?

Why would anyone buy this kit? its a 95$ land raider .... 2 seconds and plasticard = the track skirts and a thunderfire cannon? ive seen thousands of rotary barreled cannons that size on various 5-10$ toys ....

As much as i love this thing atm with its thunderfire cannon it needs to cost more points.