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How many typhoon speeders can you have as maximum in a speeder squadron? Is it one since it sasy "a land speeder can be upgraded to a typhoon" or can one have 3 typhoons in a squad?

You can have "A" typhoon, which means 1

If they had meant you to have 3 they would have said "all" or similar.

Yeah, that's what I have been saying as well. Worth mentioning is that it has a separate bullet point as well, something not found in the vanilla codex for instance

This is untrue and has been verified by a variety of TO the wording a speeded does not specify one otherwise it would say limited just as it says for grey hunters 'one model may carry a flamer/meltagun/plasmagun. It is a wording issue not a specific can't do it.

nosferatu1001 wrote:You can have "A" typhoon, which means 1

If they had meant you to have 3 they would have said "all" or similar.

More to the point it is A land speeder may be upgraded to A Typhoon; vs the Tornado which is any.

Although, the "alternatively" might mean that Any Land speeder may be upgraded to a tornado, or alternatively that Land speeder may be upgraded to a typhoon.

But since it is written in the format that it is; it is 1 Typhoon/Land Speeder Squadron. The Alternatively is that any Land Speeder can be upgraded to a Tornado, or A land Speeder may be upgraded to a typhoon; based on Syntax.

P.S. Bodger: While T.O. Word is law for given tournaments; it holds little to no water on actual rules. i have personally suffered at the hands of T.O. rulings that are explicitly against the rules, Case in Point: at one tourney an Eldar Player deployed his Warlocks and Farseer in a Wave Serpent and a unit of Eldar Guardians at the deployment phase of a DoW scenario(for those keeping count that is 2 HQs deployed in a troops DT, and another unit of troops; can anyone guess what all is illegal about this?). Second T.O. ruling was my friends Eldar pathfinders blowing up a LRC with their Sniper rifles(he believed at that time, and the TO allowed it, that the D3 bonus to Penetration for rending was D3 additional D6 leading to something like a 23 for the Armor Penetration)

"Any Land Speeder may be upgraded to a Land Speeder Tornado"
"a Land Speeder may be upgraded to a Land Speeder Typhoon"

There's a big difference between those two.


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Ed_Bodger wrote:This is untrue and has been verified by a variety of TO

Not that's relevant outside of the events in question but I'm curious - exactly which events were these?

"Any Land Speeder may be upgraded to a Land Speeder Tornado"
"a Land Speeder may be upgraded to a Land Speeder Typhoon"

There's a big difference between those two.

Sure, but there's an even bigger difference between the first and: "A single Land Speeder..."

I mean, "an acorn may grow into a mighty oak." That doesn't mean that after one acorn has grown into a might oak that no others may do so.

Phryxis wrote:

"Any Land Speeder may be upgraded to a Land Speeder Tornado"
"a Land Speeder may be upgraded to a Land Speeder Typhoon"

There's a big difference between those two.

Sure, but there's an even bigger difference between the first and: "A single Land Speeder..."

I mean, "an acorn may grow into a mighty oak." That doesn't mean that after one acorn has grown into a might oak that no others may do so.

kind of a bad example that. Mainly because you have not limited the Set, nor the options.

You have 3 Acorns. Any acorn may be used to feed squirrels. Alternatively, an acorn may grow into a mighty oak.

Now, with the above set, how many Acorns may grow into a Mighty oak?

3. I don't see how you expected that to convince him.

Re-reading that now, i formatted that Incorrectly

I am, unfortunately, too full of turkey and beer to format it correctly. At any rate the Format in the SW codex does not lend "any" Land speeder to be upgraded to a typhoon, but only 1.

Are you then saying that if you have a Typhoon, then all other Land Speeders must be stock Land Speeders with no Tornado options?

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Are you then saying that if you have a Typhoon, then all other Land Speeders must be stock Land Speeders with no Tornado options?

no just only 1 can be a typhoon though, the others can be tornado

I'm a little confused as to where you guys are getting the 'A typhoon' argument from. In my dex (And I play vanilla marines, not Space Wolves, so if that's the issue, problem solved), on pg 139, in the entry that describes the upgrades possible, nothing says anything about 'patterns'. The only thing that mentions the launcher at all is the line that says

Any Land Speeder may be upgraded with one of the following:

Typhoon Missile Launcher...................X points

Does this mean that vanilla marines can run squadrons of 3 Typhoons? And if not, please mention the page number that tells you it may not. I'm considering buying two typhoons in the next couple days, and I wanna know if I should spring for the extra typhoon in my army list or no.

Iirc the Vanilla flavored-10ft-tall-Marines are indeed the lucky ones!

Ah, thanks so much. I was getting really confused about that, haha.

Yes, Vanilla and Wolf Marines have a huuuge difference in what they can and cant take, throughout the codex.

Apparently the designers thought Wolves had "enough" missile spam, so they didnt need any more....

In answer to Scott it has been the GT, 5 Nations and then various local tournaments.

To all those who are saying it is clear it isn't as stated previously elsewhere in the same codex where there is the option for only one model to take an upgrade the codex is specific and says 'ONE model' in this case it says 'a model' which is not a restrictive or prohibitive phrase.

"A model" is restrictive, as if you try to upgrade 2 models you have no longer upgraded *A* model.

Having just spent quite a lot of time looking at it and comparing it to the other entries in the codex I think I could well be wrong and you can only take one.

I still don't understand why every where else they are specific and say one model whereas here they just say a landspeeder.

That feths up my list then

The only thing consistent about GW's writing style is it's inconsistency!

Reading their rules expecting consistency is a slow path to madness.....

Or not so slow, depending on which codex you are reading....

It's like an unholy union of Lovecraft and Kafka.

I guess I just wonder why people are so specific about "a" in the typhoon entry, but then ignore the use of "a" in other places. "Against models with a WS value, a model with a
wolftooth necklace always hits in close combat on
the roll of a 3+"


Clearly this is not meant to imply that only one model can actually gain the benefits of a WTN.

Because that has no relevance to unit selections?

Different context. Just because "a" is there doesnt mean the application is the same.

The singular in that sentence is referring to the single model that can be wearing that necklace.

Just like the "a" in the Typhoon option is referring to any particular model that forgos the Tornado upgrade?

No, because one "a" has to do with purchasing options, the other has to do with wargear effects.

Not the same context.

Ed_Bodger wrote:In answer to Scott it has been the GT, 5 Nations and then various local tournaments.

To all those who are saying it is clear it isn't as stated previously elsewhere in the same codex where there is the option for only one model to take an upgrade the codex is specific and says 'ONE model' in this case it says 'a model' which is not a restrictive or prohibitive phrase.

right ... because the diference between a model and models isnt restrictive at all ... if squad numbers 10 models a space marine may replace ... once again ...

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Ed_Bodger wrote:In answer to Scott it has been the GT, 5 Nations and then various local tournaments.

To all those who are saying it is clear it isn't as stated previously elsewhere in the same codex where there is the option for only one model to take an upgrade the codex is specific and says 'ONE model' in this case it says 'a model' which is not a restrictive or prohibitive phrase.

right ... because the diference between a model and models isnt restrictive at all ... if squad numbers 10 models a space marine may replace ... once again ...

Try reading the thread I have already admitted to probably being wrong so keep your sarcasm to yourself.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Just like the "a" in the Typhoon option is referring to any particular model that forgos the Tornado upgrade?

No, it's referring to the singular model that's wearing the necklace, just like the "a" in the Typhoon option refers to the singular model that is allowed to be upgraded.


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jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote: if squad numbers 10 models a space marine may replace ... once again ...

Except that's not what the codex says, actually. "If a squad numbers 10 models, ONE space marine may replace"
Or, in C:SW "One Grey Hunter may replace"..."If the squad numbers 10 models, a second Grey Hunter may replace"