Lord of the Rings license aquired by Wizkids/HeroClix (but may not affect GW)

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**Buzzsaw**

Posted to their webpage today.

WIZKIDS TAKES OVER MIDDLE EARTH

WITH NEW “THE LORD OF THE RINGS” GAME RELEASES

(January 18, 2011-Hillside NJ) – Wizkids announced today the addition of “The Lord of the Rings” property to their 2011 HeroClix release schedule through a licensing agreement logowith Warner Bros. Consumer Products. The first products of the new “The Lord of the Rings” line will be a HeroClix miniatures game followed by a HeroClix strategic board game, both of which will release in the back half of 2011.

“The Lord of the Rings” HeroClix miniatures game will be sold in two different packages: a campaign style box set and the traditional booster format. The all-in-one campaign style box set will include everything a player needs, including NEW epic level rules and maps. The booster format includes the figures, similar to other previous HeroClix releases. With whichever format chosen, all of the twenty or more figures will be compatible with other HeroClix miniatures games.

The second release is a unique semi cooperative HeroClix board game, following in the similar format of our other HeroClix board game products. HeroClix figures, a gameboard and several decks of cards provide all the components needed to play this unique take on “The Lord of the Rings” story. The fun twist in the game is that players’ get to play as the Nazgul working with and against other Nazgul trying to capture the One Ring before it reaches Mount Doom.

Find us on the web at www.WizKidsGames.com or friend us on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/wizkids to see the latest developments from WizKids as they happen!

About NECA/WizKids

A wholly owned subsidiary of the National Entertainment Collectibles Association Inc. (NECA), WizKids/NECA is a New Jersey-based game developer and publisher dedicated to creating games driven by imagination. The HeroClix brand is the most successful collectible miniatures games on the market today, with over 250 million miniature game figures sold worldwide. For additional information, visit www.wizkidsgames.com.

About Warner Bros. Consumer Products

Warner Bros. Consumer Products, a Warner Bros. Entertainment Company, is one of the leading licensing and retail merchandising organizations in the world.

© 2011 New Line Productions, Inc. All rights reserved. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King and the names of the characters, items, events and places therein are trademarks of The Saul Zaentz Company d/b/a Middle-earth Enterprises under license to New Line Productions, Inc.

©2011 NECA/WizKids LLC. All rights reserved. HeroClix, the HeroClix Logo, HeroClix, and WizKids are trademark of NECA/WizKids LLC.

What, if any, impact this may have on GW's line of LotR products remains to be seen.

**Mr Mystery**

Interesting.

Bear in mind however, Sabretooth did a Clix style game of LotR, alongside GW's miniatures game. So perhaps that won't effect GW at all.

Time shall tell.

**shealyr**

This shouldn't effect GW at all.

Too bad. When I read the title I was hoping that GW lost the license so they can focus solely on 40k and WHFB.

**puma713**

shealyr wrote:
Too bad. When I read the title I was hoping that GW lost the license so they can focus solely on 40k and WHFB.

QFT.

**Kilkrazy**

Either GW lost the licence to make a tabletop game, or New Line/Warner Bros/Tolkien Estate have been persuaded that Clix isn't a tabletop game in the same definition as LoTR.

Don't forget there have been other LoTR games published simultaneously with the GW version.

**UltraPrime**

Wasn't the licence due to end this year anyway? I'm sure I remember it being a 10 year deal?

**Mr. Burning**

I thought it was a 10 year deal as well.

Lets wait and see if it goes 'specialist'.

**Gibbsey**

I never really got why people hated GW's lotr... might be because i never see anyone play it/ advertising for it?

**BrassScorpion**

Gibbsey wrote:I never really got why people hated GW's lotr... might be because i never see anyone play it/ advertising for it?

My experience with seeing it was that up until a about a year ago it was still doing pretty well in many stores, but the past few months it has really dropped off even in the stores where it was doing quite well. The steady business for it just sort of fizzled. I don't see a lot of effort to revive it either and with fewer and fewer new releases from GW and many existing players suddenly too busy to mess with it, and it not growing a lot of new players to replace those that drop out its future may not be too bright.

**Gibbsey**

BrassScorpion wrote:
Gibbsey wrote:I never really got why people hated GW's lotr... might be because i never see anyone play it/ advertising for it?
My experience with seeing it was that up until a about a year ago it was still doing pretty well in many stores, but the past few months it has really dropped off even in the stores where it was doing quite well. The steady business for it just sort of fizzled. I don't see a lot of effort to revive it either and with fewer and fewer new releases from GW and many existing players suddenly too busy to mess with it, and it not growing a lot of new players to replace those that drop out it's future may not be too bright.

What i was refering to is some people seem offended GW's lotr even exists

**Alpharius**

It mostly stems from LoTR 'stealing' resources from 40K and WFB.

**alphaomega**

I thought GW were licensed to cover The Hobbit when it eventually gets Cinema release.

Shame if it is gone, WoTR is actually quite good...

**puma713**

Alpharius wrote:It mostly stems from LoTR 'stealing' resources from 40K and WFB.

Yeah, that's a huge part of it, but even so - War of the Ring was a bad financial decision (imo). It was trying to capitalize on the popularity of LotR and even when it did catch on, it's my understanding that it didn't stick. No one in my LFGS plays and I've never seen anyone playing at different LFGS that my brother and I frequent to play tournaments (in various states in the US).

Tremors of loss and a bad financial decision can be felt elsewhere in the hobby, though. And I think that has a bit to do with the resentment towards War of the Ring. If GW hadn't ventured out into the realm of Middle Earth, how would their shareholders be doing? Would they be receiving more dividends than they have this year (have they received any?). Would there be as many price hikes as there have been? Would there be more codices out? More supplements? Less filler in White Dwarf?

I'm no financial guru by any means, but I find it hard to believe that the profit/loss of LotR is borne by that gaming system alone. I would imagine that the ebb and flow of different gaming systems use the strongest seller as a crutch from time to time. The thing is, LotR isn't a well-supported game (by the community and, it seems, by the publisher) and it has needed the crutch since its inception, it seems. If WizKids is acquiring it, I, for one, will be happy to see it go.

**brettz123**

Hopefully the stuff put out by wizkids will be cool. Strategic game might be interesting.

Doubt it has anything to do with GW as it is clearly very different and wouldn't necessitate the canceling of the deal with GW. You need to remember these licenses are very specific so unless it was metal miniatures in 28mm scale it wouldn't "technically" conflict with the GW license even thought it is a competing product.

**Kid_Kyoto**

Kilkrazy wrote:Either GW lost the licence to make a tabletop game, or New Line/Warner Bros/Tolkien Estate have been persuaded that Clix isn't a tabletop game in the same definition as LoTR.

Don't forget there have been other LoTR games published simultaneously with the GW version.

This +1,000,000. Until we hear otherwise we should assume this has no effect on GW. Licencing is it's own world and hairs can be split mighty finely.

My favorite story is when DC comics noticed they'd sold the licence for superhero figures taller than 2" and figures shorter than 2". So they immediately sold a licence for figures that are exactly 2" tall.

When the films were out we had GW's game (unpainted tabletop game), Sabertooth (painted collectable game), Mithral Minis (unpainted collectable minis based on the books), board games and action figures.

I would imagine WK got the licence for 'collectable painted games' while GW has 'unpainted wargames'.

Buzzsaw i edited your title to prevent premature celebration/mourning.

**shrike**

Gibbsey wrote:I never really got why people hated GW's lotr... might be because i never see anyone play it/ advertising for it?

It got me into the hobby, but TBH, the rules system? It's

. Every model needs a 6 to wound each other, they all need 4's to hit, and 90% of them have 1 attack. The sales of them have been sloping down since 5th ed. IMO, and most kids want to see robots fighting aliens, not elves fighting orcs. I gave up LOTR about 2 years ago, and haven't looked back since.

UltraPrime wrote:Wasn't the licence due to end this year anyway? I'm sure I remember it being a 10 year deal?

Mr. Burning wrote:I thought it was a 10 year deal as well.

I hope so. Then GW can focus on the ones that the vast majority of people play.

**Kid_Kyoto**

puma713 wrote:Tremors of loss and a bad financial decision can be felt elsewhere in the hobby, though. And I think that has a bit to do with the resentment towards War of the Ring. If GW hadn't ventured out into the realm of Middle Earth, how would their shareholders be doing? Would they be receiving more dividends than they have this year (have they received any?). Would there be as many price hikes as there have been? Would there be more codices out? More supplements? Less filler in White Dwarf?

I've also seen rumors that GW policy of no discounts, no rumors and their ever-stricter IP policies come from the LotR deal.

Many companies with a prestigious licence like LotR was will include a deal you can never put their stuff on clearance. Supposedly this has influnced GW to have a policy against sales which did happen back before LotR (remember Troll Boss Bob's Bargain Basement? I built me an IG armored company out of those sales).

On IP it's even clearer, New Line is very strict about guarding their designs so GW and other licencees have to keep materials under lock and key. They'd write in WD how there were rooms their staff could not enter because of LotR. Even now, 10 years later, in order to get the Hobbit licence GW has to show how good they are keeping their own stuff under wraps.

Or so the rumor mill says.

**puma713**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
puma713 wrote:Tremors of loss and a bad financial decision can be felt elsewhere in the hobby, though. And I think that has a bit to do with the resentment towards War of the Ring. If GW hadn't ventured out into the realm of Middle Earth, how would their shareholders be doing? Would they be receiving more dividends than they have this year (have they received any?). Would there be as many price hikes as there have been? Would there be more codices out? More supplements? Less filler in White Dwarf?

I've also seen rumors that GW policy of no discounts, no rumors and their ever-stricter IP policies come from the LotR deal.

Many companies with a prestigious licence like LotR was will include a deal you can never put their stuff on clearance. Supposedly this has influnced GW to have a policy against sales which did happen back before LotR (remember Troll Boss Bob's Bargain Basement? I built me an IG armored company out of those sales).

On IP it's even clearer, New Line is very strict about guarding their designs so GW and other licencees have to keep materials under lock and key. They'd write in WD how there were rooms their staff could not enter because of LotR. Even now, 10 years later, in order to get the Hobbit licence GW has to show how good they are keeping their own stuff under wraps.

Wow. Never knew that. Very interesting.

**brettz123**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

I've also seen rumors that GW policy of no discounts, no rumors and their ever-stricter IP policies come from the LotR deal.

Many companies with a prestigious licence like LotR was will include a deal you can never put their stuff on clearance. Supposedly this has influnced GW to have a policy against sales which did happen back before LotR (remember Troll Boss Bob's Bargain Basement? I built me an IG armored company out of those sales).

On IP it's even clearer, New Line is very strict about guarding their designs so GW and other licencees have to keep materials under lock and key. They'd write in WD how there were rooms their staff could not enter because of LotR. Even now, 10 years later, in order to get the Hobbit licence GW has to show how good they are keeping their own stuff under wraps.

Or so the rumor mill says.

That is interesting but in the past they did show sneak peaks of LoTR stuff. It would be interesting to see the license agreement though. Suppose that will never happen.

**terribletrygon**

I for one would miss the LotR range if it went. I use the range a lot for models to fit into my Word Bearer zealot army. It is an often untapped source of bits. Most of the male human sized metal models can be easily converted into female characters for 40k and Fantasy due to the scale difference (normally a head and hand swap with a little shoulder filling at the bare minimum), and plastics can be used for alternative troops with a little alteration. All my basic infantry are converted Army of the Dead models. I am also willing to bet there is a use for the troll and fellbeast kits.

**MadCowCrazy**

shealyr wrote:This shouldn't effect GW at all.

Too bad. When I read the title I was hoping that GW lost the license so they can focus solely on 40k and WHFB.

I was hoping for the same thing

They can't keep up with what they have atm so they should focus on their 2 main games until they can sort out a way for all armies to stay up to date at all times (which wont happen until GW goes bust and has to remanage everything and change release strategy).

**Grimstonefire**

Mr Mystery wrote:Interesting.

Bear in mind however, Sabretooth did a Clix style game of LotR, alongside GW's miniatures game. So perhaps that won't effect GW at all.

Time shall tell.

Is this the same Sabertooth that GW owns the majority of? I can see how that wouldn't change anything for GW.

**malfred**

I love the LotR miniatures. I really don't think that losing the
line will mean an increase in 40k releases.

**Mr Mystery**

It is, but as far as I know license aren't transferable, even within your own company. I dunno, not an expert.

Also, trying to remember when GW bought out Sabretooth, and when the Clix style game came in.

**Phototoxin**

But what will go in WD without endless LOTR filler?

Additionally it was to capitalise but also entice new players in. I dont think it did either.

And besides if GW come out wiht 'Swindlybob' a new specialist stand alone game can we really expect them to support it?

They did better when they had i) decent priced minis, ii) semi-dedcent rules - we didn't expect miracles, but now for the price I do. a single £11 28mm minature should be able to make the tea if not cure cancer. It doesn't so the game should be superior. It's not.
iii) more 'specialist' games which encouraged support and sales. WhQuest, Space Hulk (splash release WHY? - moulds cost how much? WHY WHY WHY????!) necromunda, gorkmorka, mordheim, epic and so on...

Now if they released one no one should buy it as there would be no support in 3 to 6 months.....

**Mr Mystery**

What you call 'filler' I call an interesting read.

Take the new models for WotR, the fairly recently released Kings Champion, Floi Stonehand, Gundabad Blackshields and Cave Drake. Rules to use them in the Skirmish game, presented in White Dwarf.

You know, the very article neckbeards are always demanding. Not playing the game is no reason to diss the articles. Hell, I play WotR more often than 40k, yet don't consider the 40k articles 'filler'

**AlexHolker**

Alpharius wrote:It mostly stems from LoTR 'stealing' resources from 40K and WFB.

That and being, IIRC, 25mm scale and not usable for WHFB or 40k conversions upon pain of death.

**terribletrygon**

AlexHolker wrote:
Alpharius wrote:It mostly stems from LoTR 'stealing' resources from 40K and WFB.

That and being, IIRC, 25mm scale and not usable for WHFB or 40k conversions upon pain of death.

As I said, depending upon the model in question and what you want them for, most LotR human sized and large models are fine for conversion.

I would stray away from basic human troop plastic kits for basic infantry, but larger human plastics, like the Army of the Dead (pictured above) and Uraks should be fine.

Though, you probably won't be able to field a army with lots of LotR conversions in a GW store, as with non-GW miniatures. Considering most of us likely play at gaming clubs or else where, this likely isn't a big deal.

**Kid_Kyoto**

Grimstonefire wrote:
Mr Mystery wrote:Interesting.

Bear in mind however, Sabretooth did a Clix style game of LotR, alongside GW's miniatures game. So perhaps that won't effect GW at all.

Time shall tell.

Is this the same Sabertooth that GW owns the majority of? I can see how that wouldn't change anything for GW.

Didn't GW aquire ST after the slidy game came out?

**Kroothawk**

Sabertooth Games http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabertooth_Games , a now defunct subsidiary of Games Workshop, once produced a clix based LOTR game parallel to the LOTR tabletop. The game was discontinued due to being not successful enoughl. Wizkids once nearly crashed for being not successful enough as well. Seems like they still have a soft spot for obviously unsuccessful projects

Maybe we will see a Mutant Chronicles clix-project after that