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I've been looking at the LRBT and I thought: how can they possibly reload that cannon without getting out of the tank and pushing a shell down the barrel? On a similar note, how small must a Demolisher shell be to fit into the cannon? Please don't go on about how it's the 41st millennium, anything is possible, blah blah blah. Just any thoughts people have please.

Internal reloading mechanisms? How does a real tank reload? I imagine it's much the same for a Leman Russ.

I don't know how a real tank reloads. Thing is, with the LRBT, the cannon is mounted on the turret, in front of the space where the tank commander stands.

Rule of Cool

Try not to think too hard about it.



Actually, there might be an auto-loader system of some sort in place that automatically lifts the shell straight up into the barrel (which would have to start just at the very edge of the turret).

More importantly, the turret is only big enough for one person - which as anyone who knows anything about real-world tanks will tell you is a serious problem. Ideally you want 2-3 guys up there. But then again, we're talking about a vehicle that has almost as many gun turrets as the real world Soviet T-35. Realism doesn't have much to do with the way it looks.

Internal reloading mechanisms? How does a real tank reload? I imagine it's much the same for a Leman Russ.

It depends on the tank. Soviet (now Russian) modern tanks use auto-loaders, iirc. Western tanks tend to have the crew manually reload the gun. The latter method is faster, and it avoids the problems that arise when the loading system jams...

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:Internal reloading mechanisms? How does a real tank reload? I imagine it's much the same for a Leman Russ.

There are two different ways a real tank reloads. Some tanks use an autoloading mechanism, and others use a loader, a big man who puts the selected shell and propellant into the breech.

Both these methods have advantages and disadvantages, but they both need room in the turret which doesn't exist in most GW models.

Never ask how an "ABC in 40K does XYZ" because there is not often a realistic answer.

Rule of Cool is what powers 40K hardware

I had to chuckle at the image of an irate IG tanker,getting out of the tank to load the gun like a musket.As to how they do reload,i had always considered it to be exactly like it is with modern day tanks and iirc they did describe it that way in Gunheads,the IG novel about recovering the Fortress of Arrogance.They hold a certain amount in an armoured casket inside the tank and once they are gone,they withdraw to be rearmed at the regimental ammo dump.

The turret might be small, but there's more space in the body than a normal tank. If the tank has more automated systems, than you might only need one person in the turret as gunner and reloader. The commander might sit down in the body with everyone else.

The main guns on tanks generally are mounted on the turret. A quick glance at wikipedia says that the M1 Abrams stores its ammo in the turret, and reloads with an autoloader.

I imagine the Leman Russ either does that, or more likely uses a manual reload system for MOAR GRIMDARKS.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:The main guns on tanks generally are mounted on the turret. A quick glance at wikipedia says that the M1 Abrams stores its ammo in the turret, and reloads with an autoloader.

I imagine the Leman Russ either does that, or more likely uses a manual reload system for MOAR GRIMDARKS.

Autoloaders aren't that hightech, a slide pops out and you place a charge and shell on the slide. The slide will then pull back into the cannon with the push of a button, nothing too fancy for 40k.

Mr Nobody wrote:The turret might be small, but there's more space in the body than a normal tank. If the tank has more automated systems, than you might only need one person in the turret as gunner and reloader. The commander might sit down in the body with everyone else.

With real-world tanks, you want the commander up top so that he can occasionally poke his head out the top hatch and take a look around. It helps when getting your bearings and figuring out where everything is (particularly the bad guys). But it's possible that the Imperium has good enough 360 degree sensors on its tanks that the commander doesn't get any real advantage from popping out of the top.

CommissarCandlestick wrote:I've been looking at the LRBT and I thought: how can they possibly reload that cannon without getting out of the tank and pushing a shell down the barrel?

They don't. The Russ model that GW puts out is ludicrous. The turret isn't even big enough to be able to mount the gun with enough space for people to get in and out of it, much less enough space to reload.

I mean, just compare the turret:tank ratio of a leman russ to a REAL tank.



>

Leman Russ does have an auto-loader. It also has a crew of 5-6....somehow. They're like clown cars.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Leman Russ does have an auto-loader. It also has a crew of 5-6....somehow. They're like clown cars.

It has (or can have, with sponsons) four separate guns, each of which would likely be handled by a separate crew member, then there's the driver, and possibly a commanding officer sitting up top so he can hit the enemy with his sword.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Leman Russ does have an auto-loader. It also has a crew of 5-6....somehow. They're like clown cars.

It has (or can have, with sponsons) four separate guns, each of which would likely be handled by a separate crew member, then there's the driver, and possibly a commanding officer sitting up top so he can hit the enemy with his sword.

Yes, I know what they're doing just saying I don't know how they fit in there. They must be back-to-back-to-back.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:The main guns on tanks generally are mounted on the turret. A quick glance at wikipedia says that the M1 Abrams stores its ammo in the turret, and reloads with an autoloader.

I imagine the Leman Russ either does that, or more likely uses a manual reload system for MOAR GRIMDARKS.

The M1 doesn't have an autoloader. Like nearly all western tanks there is a human loader.

Human Loaders are faster.

Eumerin wrote:

Mr Nobody wrote:The turret might be small, but there's more space in the body than a normal tank. If the tank has more automated systems, than you might only need one person in the turret as gunner and reloader. The commander might sit down in the body with everyone else.

With real-world tanks, you want the commander up top so that he can occasionally poke his head out the top hatch and take a look around. It helps when getting your bearings and figuring out where everything is (particularly the bad guys). But it's possible that the Imperium has good enough 360 degree sensors on its tanks that the commander doesn't get any real advantage from popping out of the top.

Good rationalisation.

It's also possible that GW design crappy models.

Also you can actually see the little vision slits and periscopes. It's pretty old school stuff in the 41st millenium

Kilkrazy wrote:It's also possible that GW design crappy models.

Well duh! That goes without saying!

But it doesn't change the fact that they print all of the fluff and then people want to try and figure out how it might possibly work. Hence threads like this one.

A realistically proportioned Imperium tank should be about the size of the Baneblade - without all of the extra guns. But you can't fit companies of ten Baneblade-sized tanks on a gaming table. So GW makes smaller tanks, which leaves the players to figure out how and why a Land Raider works even though the crew plus the passengers probably don't leave you with enough remaining hull space for the engine and ammo.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:The main guns on tanks generally are mounted on the turret. A quick glance at wikipedia says that the M1 Abrams stores its ammo in the turret, and reloads with an autoloader.

I imagine the Leman Russ either does that, or more likely uses a manual reload system for MOAR GRIMDARKS.

The M1 doesn't have an autoloader. Like nearly all western tanks there is a human loader.

Yeah, I misread what it was saying there.

"Gunheads" is a IG / tank novel.
A Leman Russ got 4 crew. Commander, driver , gunner , loader.

There is most of the routines of tank crews described, loading too, but can't find it at the moment.

Maybe a "subcompany" source could sed some light. Imperial Armor

IA, first book.

Leman russ vanquisher
- crew 4
- ammo main 28 rounds

Leman russ conqueror
- crew 4
- ammo main 36 rounds

Baneblade
- crew 10
- ammo main 22 rounds

Seems its reloading time after 20-30 shots.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Human Loaders are faster.

Unless they're already tired after loading ten 120 pound 120mm rounds(vs 22-28 ready in autoloaders queue) or (blasphemy, western tanks are not designed for this!) try to reload while tank moves with top speed over rough terrain.

On topic -if that main gun have no recoil compensation mechanism inside turret, postulating that it'is loaded with separate shell and charge like old IS-2 or "modern" british(!!!) Challenger makes reloading possible (shell and charge goes up like in some kind of ammo clip). Oh, and cannon has shockingly small length/calibre ratio... it's giant bolter.
BTW in "gunheads" it was manual reloading , though afair crewmate was augmented or had exo-support.

PS on picture it looks like that commander is standing atop the gun...maybe it's venerated 30Ks cogboy's goof - when more sophisticated and unavailable energy weapon of DAOT was replaced by battle cannon, they're decided to not defile sacred design any futher by moving the hatch backward,thus also improving courage of imperial crews as tank is not so easy to abandon after this.

Yeah, there are some space issues, but it is probably something like this.

All Leman Russ varients don't have autoloaders-that's for the marines- as far as Imperial Armour is concerned. The newer Forge World turrets have rectified the space problem somewhat by repositioning some elements, but really the problem is that the original Russ models was first made decades ago, and little in 40k is true scale. It probably works like Jadebullet posted, its just that GW can't be bothered making a larger kit to represent this-a similar problem to the old "how the hell do ten marines fit into that tichy wittle Rhino problem?" (though Rhinos were of course originally made for normal humans). If the scale issues bother you then just make a new turret. ^^

The scale doesn't bother me, I'm just interested (and I'm likely not capable of making a new turret).

CommissarCandlestick wrote:The scale doesn't bother me, I'm just interested (and I'm likely not capable of making a new turret).

Obviously the scale does bother you which is why you asked the question. Obviously the leman russ, like most of the vehicles is out of scale, not only in comparison to the models on foot but also within the tank.
As mentioned above the Rhino is too small. Yes the original was designed for humans but if it had been too small then the marines would never have adopted it.

40k tanks would be considered poorer designs then late era ww2 tanks.....But they look cooler so who cares =)

For what it's worth, GW has said that none of their tanks are to scale with the miniatures.


Rhino's, at proper scale, would be the size of a Landraider. Lemun Russes would be slightly larger.


the main mistake is GW giving you bits for tank guys to be popping out of the hatches.

CommissarCandlestick wrote:I've been looking at the LRBT and I thought: how can they possibly reload that cannon without getting out of the tank and pushing a shell down the barrel?

Tech-Priest: "Magic" *Cracks neck* "MOTHAF****!"

WHAT IS SEEN CANNOT BE UNSEEN!

Thanks for pretty much killing the awesomeness of a massive armoured fist of russes punching through an enemy's center