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America has a long history of war and conflict. From the civil war to WWII, to Korea and Vietnam to Kuwait, We've given the life and limb of our young men and women in the name of freedom and justice (and yes other things). Hell even even the Iraq war was later renamed "Iraq freedom". Saddam was over thrown out of a stable government. So why does a crazed dictator threaten the united states http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/af_libya and nothing is done about it. A people fighting for freedom call to the US and others for aid and nothing. He couldn't be bother to make a statement until every one else did. Then all he said was " come on guys play nice!" I know Everything the USA stands for may be nothing more than talking points for most people. But for me and most vets, young and old. We believe. That vow to protect the freedoms of all men, that every person has rights, that no man has a right to oppress another. That may not be what drives the political leaders. But that's what drove brother against brother for the sake of my great great grandparents. That's what drove American against German for the sake of Poland and France, and that's what drove us in Desert storm. Maybe he's afraid they will tie him to Islam, maybe it would be politically bad, right when he is picking up a little steam. I don't know are care. As an Black American I feel obligated (and proud) to answer a plea for freedom. I hate to think if the Union thought like people do today and Obama was the president instead of Lincoln "it's not our prob". Our cause is Just. Our leader is a weakling.

Moderator note: Although we like sexiest_hero, and recognize that he does not actually hate Obama and is mostly just angry because he feels betrayed, we have edited the thread title to something less inflammatory. While it has been allowed to stand for a while, we have considered that in retrospect, if someone who DOES hate Obama had used this thread title as a trolling post, it would have been locked or edited long ago, and it is inappropriate and inconsistent to let the title stand just because we know sexiest_hero is not actually trying to troll. Thank you. -Mannahnin

sexiest_hero wrote:So why does a crazed dictator threaten the united states http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/af_libya and nothing is done about it.

1. There's no actual threat to the US.

2. No compelling commercial interest.

sexiest_hero wrote:That's what drove American against German for the sake of Poland and France, and that's what drove us in Desert storm.

More for the sake of Pearl Harbour.

They have oil, this conflict is making the price go up.

So did occupying afghanistan and iraq. The US already has its hands full.

The UN should be intervening, not the US in another unilateral invasion.

WARBOSS TZOO wrote:More for the sake of Pearl Harbour.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

Stop driving big cars then.

Everyone else in the developed world managed that back in the 1970s.

biccat wrote:

WARBOSS TZOO wrote:More for the sake of Pearl Harbour.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

"What's he..."
"Just go with it."

WARBOSS TZOO wrote:So did occupying afghanistan and iraq. The US already has its hands full.

The UN should be intervening, not the US in another unilateral invasion.

This. Let the people of Libya determine their own future.

biccat wrote:

WARBOSS TZOO wrote:More for the sake of Pearl Harbour.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

But I thought Japan bombed Perl Harbor...

given the life and limb of our young men

War, on the contrary, has a rather unfortunate tendency to take them away.

wizard12 wrote:

biccat wrote:

WARBOSS TZOO wrote:More for the sake of Pearl Harbour.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

But I thought Japan bombed Perl Harbor...

I'm sensing a horrific imbalance of your humours. My prescription: viewing Animal House, STAT.

They can't when the Government can bombthim back to the stone age. that's why they need help.

To paraphrase General Shepherd.
'We're the best army in the free world, we can't sit one out'

You americans can do what you want just don't drag us in again.

Like its been said before, we're busy as hell with Iraq and Afghanistan. Not to mention the fact that these two wars have caused us to lose income instead of gain like WW2 and WW1.

Then we have people like Hugo Chavez saying that the whole Libyan situation is a front for the US to invade Libya.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Perkustin wrote:
You americans can do what you want just don't drag us in again.

I don't think European nations have the right to say that we drag them into wars.

sexiest_hero wrote:America has a long history of war and conflict. From the civil war to WWII, to Korea and Vietnam to Kuwait, We've given the life and limb of our young men and women in the name of freedom and justice (and yes other things). Hell even even the Iraq war was later renamed "Iraq freedom". Saddam was over thrown out of a stable government. So why does a crazed dictator threaten the united states http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/af_libya and nothing is done about it. A people fighting for freedom call to the US and others for aid and nothing. He couldn't be bother to make a statement until every one else did. Then all he said was " come on guys play nice!" I know Everything the USA stands for may be nothing more than talking points for most people. But for me and most vets, young and old. We believe. That vow to protect the freedoms of all men, that every person has rights, that no man has a right to oppress another. That may not be what drives the political leaders. But that's what drove brother against brother for the sake of my great great grandparents. That's what drove American against German for the sake of Poland and France, and that's what drove us in Desert storm. Maybe he's afraid they will tie him to Islam, maybe it would be politically bad, right when he is picking up a little steam. I don't know are care. As an Black American I feel obligated (and proud) to answer a plea for freedom. I hate to think if the Union thought like people do today and Obama was the president instead of Lincoln "it's not our prob". Our cause is Just. Our leader is a weakling.

umm.

who appointed the US as the arbiter of freedom and stuff? if the US went to "help" every country that had internal turmoil under the name of "freedom", if the US went after every country that "threatened" them, MAD wouldve happened a LOOOONG time ago.

knowing this doesnt make you weak. protecting your country's interest and keeping your nose out of someone elses business isnt weak.

the age of gung ho macho man "we go to war!" shenanigans is over.

funny thing is if Obama actually did help Libya there would be folks complaining "this aint our war! why are our kids dying in other countries?"

sheesh.

Bakerofish wrote:who appointed the US as the arbiter of freedom and stuff?

I'll tell you who: George Mother ing Washington.

USA! USA! USA!

sexiest_hero wrote:They can't when the Government can bombthim back to the stone age. that's why they need help.

They can't though, not really. The highest casualty count I've seen is ~1200, which is really low given air strikes on unarmed protesters.

There's also the fact that the armed forces have split over who they'll support.

The Libyans don't need help.

This is so ridiculous, I don't even know where to start. Are you so completely out of touch with reality that you think the US needs to open another military conflict? We cannot even pay for the ones we're already engaged in, and you think we should go play policeman to the rest of the world? What about the problems at home, the unemployment and underemployment? Real wages for Americans (compared to inflation) have not increased in the last fifty years (Source). And you think we need to go tell some other country what to do?

Wars are expensive. Sending troops overseas is expensive. I think I read something yesterday that said that China actually owns more of our debt than previously thought, though I cannot find a link to it now. Our Government is operating on stop-gap funding (Source) and you want us to go invade Libya out of some misplaced sense of duty? Get a grip.

Grakmar wrote:

Bakerofish wrote:who appointed the US as the arbiter of freedom and stuff?

I'll tell you who: George Mother ing Washington.

USA! USA! USA!

im sure he must be disappointed then

*looks at N. Korea*

dogma wrote:

sexiest_hero wrote:They can't when the Government can bombthim back to the stone age. that's why they need help.

They can't though, not really. The highest casualty count I've seen is ~1200, which is really low given air strikes on unarmed protesters.

There's also the fact that the armed forces have split over who they'll support.

The Libyans don't need help.

Any links to support this claim?

who appointed the US as the arbiter of freedom and stuff?

We did, the free world exists because of the US and her Allies, I'm sure the Russians or Old Nazi Germany would have loved a different say.

The war in Iraq is pretty much over, the troop pull out is going according to plan. The official war ended sometime in July or August. Obama didn't stand on a boat with a big banner so people missed it I guess.

Hugo Chavez, the dictator who has other dictators over for Lunch says something bad About the USA boo hoo.

"funny thing is if Obama actually did help Libya there would be folks complaining "this aint our war! why are our kids dying in other countries?"

Internal troubles and mass murder are two different things. One is a War crime.

"the age of gung ho macho man "we go to war!" shenanigans is over."

and the Age of the "Let them die" era begun?"

Most of Our wars have been fought over seas, People say these things every war. It's their right, Freedom and all.

I know my PoV is in the very tiny minority, and I'm not trying to troll but I am firm in my belief to help others, even if there is no profit for yourself. Sadly It leaves me a Tree hugging lefty advocating war.

biccat wrote:

dogma wrote:

sexiest_hero wrote:They can't when the Government can bombthim back to the stone age. that's why they need help.

They can't though, not really. The highest casualty count I've seen is ~1200, which is really low given air strikes on unarmed protesters.

There's also the fact that the armed forces have split over who they'll support.

The Libyans don't need help.

Any links to support this claim?

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/03/02/libya.conflict/index.html?hpt=T2

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said "The death toll from nearly two weeks of violence is unknown, but likely to exceed 1,000"

Libya's ambassador to the United States estimated Monday that the death toll was about 2,000.

sexiest_hero wrote:who appointed the US as the arbiter of freedom and stuff?

We did, the free world exists because of the US and her Allies, I'm sure the Russians or Old Nazi Germany would have loved a different say.

The war in Iraq is pretty much over, the troop pull out is going according to plan. The official war ended sometime in July or August. Obama didn't stand on a boat with a big banner so people missed it I guess.

Hugo Chavez, the dictator who has other dictators over for Lunch says something bad About the USA boo hoo.

"funny thing is if Obama actually did help Libya there would be folks complaining "this aint our war! why are our kids dying in other countries?"

Internal troubles and mass murder are two different things. One is a War crime.

"the age of gung ho macho man "we go to war!" shenanigans is over."

and the Age of the "Let them die" era begun?"

Most of Our wars have been fought over seas, People say these things every war. It's their right, Freedom and all.

I know my PoV is in the very tiny minority, and I'm not trying to troll but I am firm in my belief to help others, even if there is no profit for yourself. Sadly It leaves me a Tree hugging lefty advocating war.

Please stop giving Americans an even worse image in the international community. It's bad enough as it is.

did i say let them die? im all for the UN getting a hand in this.

im all for getting medical and economic aid to get Libya back on its feet

but really... let the Libyans decide their country's fate.

if you want to help then do so.

war is NOT help.

Grakmar wrote:

Bakerofish wrote:who appointed the US as the arbiter of freedom and stuff?

I'll tell you who: George Mother ing Washington.

USA! USA! USA!

I would say that the Monroe Doctrine kick started everything. Then we started getting involved with the Barbary coast and pirates, then we sent Commodore Perry who blew up some things in Japan to get them away from isolationism. Then the was the Spanish-American war followed by Teddy Roosevelt(best president ever of all times), and then WW1. We did get tired after WW1 and became isolationist, but then Europe decided that they wanted us to come over and made a stink about it. Then Japan got mad at us and we entered WW2, after that we realized that Europe can't hold itself together much less the world so we became the world police. Then we got into a fight with Russia over who was going to be the world police and we lost so we had to be the world police. We also split Germany and Korea into two different countries during that whole situation. North Korea was mad and invaded South Korea so we decided to help them out.

Then France had issues with Vietnam and couldn't hold that together and we stepped in.

Then there was some more invasions in the middle east that we had to help deal with because we said we would.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bakerofish wrote:
war is NOT help.

I would beg to differ, wars have solved more issues than peace and diplomacy.

If my support for a peoples' freedom "gives us a worse image" then times are really bad. Look sorry world I personally wish I could take back the Iraq war (that I was and still am against). It was based on a lie, and you all, being good honest folk, fell for it. I wish it never happened, that said. I don't think we can give up on the concept of what we've been doing for the past 40+ years. Oh and no personal attacks please .

sexiest_hero wrote:America has a long history of war and conflict. From the civil war to WWII, to Korea and Vietnam to Kuwait, We've given the life and limb of our young men and women in the name of freedom and justice (and yes other things). Hell even even the Iraq war was later renamed "Iraq freedom". Saddam was over thrown out of a stable government. So why does a crazed dictator threaten the united states http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/af_libya and nothing is done about it. A people fighting for freedom call to the US and others for aid and nothing. He couldn't be bother to make a statement until every one else did. Then all he said was " come on guys play nice!" I know Everything the USA stands for may be nothing more than talking points for most people. But for me and most vets, young and old. We believe. That vow to protect the freedoms of all men, that every person has rights, that no man has a right to oppress another. That may not be what drives the political leaders. But that's what drove brother against brother for the sake of my great great grandparents. That's what drove American against German for the sake of Poland and France, and that's what drove us in Desert storm. Maybe he's afraid they will tie him to Islam, maybe it would be politically bad, right when he is picking up a little steam. I don't know are care. As an Black American I feel obligated (and proud) to answer a plea for freedom. I hate to think if the Union thought like people do today and Obama was the president instead of Lincoln "it's not our prob". Our cause is Just. Our leader is a weakling.

that .

If someone attacks the US or US citizens, radiate their country. If not leave them alone. The time has long passed for the US to be involved in everyone's fight. They'll still be fighting when the US and the empire that follows us is long dust.

biccat wrote:
Any links to support this claim?

That was a couple days ago, now its apparently cresting 6000, which is still quite low and not exclusive to protesters/opposition.

Actually, it looks like the 1200 might have been my memory of the prison massacre in 2006.

sexiest_hero wrote:If my support for a peoples' freedom "gives us a worse image" then times are really bad. Look sorry world I personally wish I could take back the Iraq war (that I was and still am against). It was based on a lie, and you all, being good honest folk, fell for it.

If we enter Libya, start killing the troops, take out Ghadaffi, and then find out that there never were any orders to attack civilians, what would be your response?

I guess it has to get OVER 9000!!!!!!