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Hey folks! I put this together to promote people considering a wych cult as their Dark Eldar army.

To me, a wych cult epitomizes fast assault in 40k. Before the new codex came out, my wych cult looked basically like this at 2,000 points:

HQ: Lelith Hespirax + wych retinue (succubus with agonizer) in a dark lance raider

Troop1: 5x Wyches, succubus with agonizer, 2x Blasters, 5x haywire grenades in a dark lance raider
Troop2: 5x Wyches, succubus with agonizer, 2x Blasters, 5x haywire grenades in a dark lance raider
Troop3: 5x Wyches, succubus with agonizer, 2x Blasters, 5x haywire grenades in a dark lance raider
Troop4: 5x Wyches, succubus with agonizer, 2x Blasters, 5x haywire grenades in a dark lance raider
Troop5: 5x Wyches, succubus with agonizer, 2x Blasters, 5x haywire grenades in a dark lance raider

Elite1: 5x Warriors with a Dark Lance in a Dark Lance Raider (one with a Nightmare Doll)
Elite2: 5x Warriors with a Dark Lance in a Dark Lance Raider (one with a Crucible of Malediction)
Elite3: 5x Warriors with a Dark Lance in a Dark Lance Raider

Heavy1: Ravager with triple disintegrators
Heavy2: Ravager with triple disintegrators
Heavy3: Ravager with triple disintegrators

The army has 12 Dark Lances and 10 blasters for anti-tank, with the ravagers serving as heavy anti-tank duty with triple STR7 AP2 templates per vehicle per turn, and the ability to bang up a rhino coming into play more often than intended due to my personal inadequacy with dice. In addition to being assault units, the wyches all came packing haywire grenades to double up at anti-tank duty – and when rolling for combat drugs (by individual unit), more often than not I was looking for at least one 12” charge and giving Lelith’s unit a 12” charge as well to get in and silence tanks (or long fangs) early.

While most opponents can probably accurately assess that five wyches that are STR3 aren’t particularly threatening to their own assault units, a much smaller percentage of opponents can see past the unit vs. unit comparison to assess the threat of the army’s synergy – because in actuality, it is almost *never* 5 wyches versus a unit of ork boyz, or a grey hunter squad, or a dire avenger unit, or a terminator squad….it is 10-20 wyches bringing 4-8 STR8 AP2 shots before they assault in. 15 wyches vs. 20 boyz is different than 5 wyches vs 20 boyz.

The new codex brings change.

Lelith is no longer a reasonably priced retinue-toting monster. Instead, she’s an underwhelming point sink. Wyches no longer can pack blasters, let alone two per unit of five. They lost wych weapons, which were a critical piece of tying units up both both cutting enemy weapon skill in half and reducing the entire enemy attacks by one most of the time (since most things pack a close combat weapon). Dark Lances went up by 15 points and can no longer be fielded by a unit of 5 warriors. Disintegrators got nerfed into uselessness.

I originally started a kabal in the new codex because my attempts at rebuilding my wych cult always ended up with a much less effective version of what I used to have. I had been running a haemonculi in my army since it was the only way to gain access to the Crucible of Malediction, which I consider to be essential to a TAC list – most heavily impacting games against Eldar and Tyranids and with the advent of Grey Knights, expected to become even more important. The haemonculi initially ran with the beast unit, then jumped into a trueborn venom on the first turn to get up the battlefield to apply his crucible (if applicable) and his Shattershard. When the Black Templar / Dark Angel FAQs hit, I took a close look at what I was running because I didn’t have an answer to Blessed Hull…or Monoliths. With beasts being reduced in effectiveness without PtP and no answer to lance-ignoring armour, the obvious answer was wyches with haywire grenades.

I initially put my haemonculi with the wyches because I didn’t have anywhere better to put him, but after seeing how potent wyches were when they started with FNP (and possibly Furious Charge depending on drugs), this unit combination became one of my favorites, and one I’m glad to see becoming more widely accepted as time goes by and influence spreads. Thus, having broken out of my initial wych cult tendencies, a new variation was born:

Wych Coven

HQ1: 1x Haemonculi with 1x Liquifier and Crucible of Malediction
HQ2: 3x Haemonculi with 3x Liquifiers and 1x Shattershard

Troop1: 9x Wyches with a Hekatrix upgrade packing an agonizer; 9x Haywire Grenades // Raider, Dark Lance, Flickerfield
Troop2: 9x Wyches with a Hekatrix upgrade packing an agonizer; 9x Haywire Grenades // Raider, Dark Lance, Flickerfield
Troop3: 9x Wyches with a Hekatrix upgrade packing an agonizer; 9x Haywire Grenades // Raider, Dark Lance, Flickerfield
Troop4: 9x Wyches with a Hekatrix upgrade packing an agonizer; 9x Haywire Grenades // Raider, Dark Lance, Flickerfield


Elite1: 4x Kabalite Trueborn with 4x Blasters // Venom, Extra Splinter Cannon, Flickerfield
Elite2: 4x Kabalite Trueborn with 4x Blasters // Venom, Extra Splinter Cannon, Flickerfield
Elite3: 4x Kabalite Trueborn with 4x Blasters // Venom, Extra Splinter Cannon, Flickerfield

Heavy Support1: Ravager with 3x Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Heavy Support2: Ravager with 3x Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Heavy Support3: Ravager with 3x Dark Lances, Flickerfield

Trueborn take the place of the old warriors with dark lances. Wyches have lost cheap killing power but gained survivability, Ravagers don’t have access to plasma templates anymore, but there are more wyches that are more survivable now, and volume of fire from Venoms helps to offset the loss of powerful anti-troop fire. In some respects, splinter cannons are more effective anti-troop tools than the old Disintegrators – which scattered 2/3 of the time, and against intelligent opponents only caught 1-2 models on a direct hit anyway.

While opponents can still look at a wych unit and make a unit vs. unit comparison (how will my 10 assault marines fare against your 9 wyches), it will still come down to 18-27 wyches against a dedicated assault unit just to make sure the job gets done – unless they’re not packing power weapons or ork numbers, in which case nine wyches with an agonize and FNP + a drug on the charge should do the trick.

The key to success isn’t in overwhelming your opponent like an IG leafblower list, but in deciding what happens on the battlefield where and when.

*EDIT* This is not the only variation of a wych cult, but it is the template that I've come up with and am sweeping away competition with.

Cool contrebution to the dark eldar sociaty Dash.

I am just wondering why there are no extsra weaponds upgrades on the wytches? I would think that a shardnett would be good (it is my favoret) since it is good vs MC's, characters and dreadnoughts.

so your haemi's run around in transports after they give up their pain token or do they get into CC?

Is that a 1900 point list? How would your trim it to 1750 or 1500. What about upping it to 2000?

That's a 1971 point list actually; I wasn't trying to give a list to copy, but a theme to follow.

In terms of cutting it down point variations, I fiddle with trueborn numbers (units of 3 instead of 4), wargear, wych numbers and haemonculi.

Just remember Dash that your army template is probably going to be different from others.

As it is, your skill level is much higher than almost anyone else around. Your success is going to be skewed higher than your average player.

Either way, this looks like another good DE template to add to Ketara's contributions.

Great write-up! I was actually looking forward to this since the Kabalite guide where you mentioned doing a Wytch Cult tactica. I have recently started Dark Eldar and have moved to a Wytch based list. I initially ran Wracks, but was ultimately disappointed by their lack of effectiveness and how easily they were killed by power units. Wytches on the other hand, don't seem to fear most anything in close combat.

I have been running:

Duke Slicius
Haemonculus with Shattershard
Haemonculus with Liquifier

9 Wytches, 1 Hekatrix with Agonizer, 1 Razorflails, Haywire nades on squad in Raider with flickerfield
9 Wytches, 1 Hekatrix with Agonizer, 1 Razorflails, Haywire nades on squad in Raider with flickerfield
9 Warriors with 1 Blaster in Raider with flickerfield and splinter racks
5 Warriors with Blaster in Venom
5 Warriors with Blaster in Venom
3 Ravagers with flickerfield

Total: 1500

Though it isn't extremely Wytch heavy, they are the big hitters. My questions are:

1. How come you don't try to incorporate the Duke? The two combat drug rolls can be huge. Though almost anything can be good, re-roll wounds seems like the best and two chances at that is pretty nice. 3d6 run is kinda meh and a 17% chance of that is kinda rough.
2. I see you use no Wytch Weapons? Any particular reason? If so, what would you recommend?
3. Have you had that much success with the Crucible that you consider it a must take? It seems like such a low chance.

Any other comments or list advice is welcome. I like the general build and am looking toward making it better. Thanks!

Niiai wrote:Cool contrebution to the dark eldar sociaty Dash.

I am just wondering why there are no extsra weaponds upgrades on the wytches? I would think that a shardnett would be good (it is my favoret) since it is good vs MC's, characters and dreadnoughts.

Shardnets: In my opinion, this is the least valuable piece of wargear that wyches can take for wych weapons.

Depending on point levels, my wyches may run with hydra gauntlets.


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WarOne wrote:Just remember Dash that your army template is probably going to be different from others.

As it is, your skill level is much higher than almost anyone else around. Your success is going to be skewed higher than your average player.

Either way, this looks like another good DE template to add to Ketara's contributions.

Yes, this was written with supplementing the wych cult template that he will probably write in mind.

Dashofpepper wrote:That's a 1971 point list actually; I wasn't trying to give a list to copy, but a theme to follow.

In terms of cutting it down point variations, I fiddle with trueborn numbers (units of 3 instead of 4), wargear, wych numbers and haemonculi.

yeah I see. Themeatically it would be nice to squeeze in a unit of bloodbrides me thinks, too bad you really need those trueborn.

How do you see a Wych cult playing against min. or combat squadded razorback Purifiers en masse, ala Crowe-wing plus Psyflemen behind S6 razorbacks?

Dash, I think your issue here is that while you plan on using 2-3 witch units to beat on the enemy, your witches mobility is very closely tied to 4 raiders. So if your raiders go down, you lose both witches AND mobility.

Sure, the enemy may decide to shoot your venoms or ravagers, but lets be honest... if they shoot the wrong targets you are going to win already.

Since you have nothing other than witches for cc, this list gets relegated to 'fluffy theme' rather than 'competitive tourney.'

sourclams wrote:How do you see a Wych cult playing against min. or combat squadded razorback Purifiers en masse, ala Crowe-wing plus Psyflemen behind S6 razorbacks?

depends a lot on whether wyches get their dodge against clensing flame. I think they do but there are some who are making arguments.

I assume they do, but even so 2 cleansing flames wipes out half the unit before they swing with what should be about a 50/50 of sniping the squad leader and any special weapons. That's pretty devastating whether they charge or get charged.

sourclams wrote:I assume they do, but even so 2 cleansing flames wipes out half the unit before they swing with what should be about a 50/50 of sniping the squad leader and any special weapons. That's pretty devastating whether they charge or get charged.

2 cleansing flames would be coming from 2 units. Its unlikely they would be getting charged or charging 2 units at one time. 1 casting, I think they can deal with it. Purifiers cost a lot more than wyches. The squad leader is the only special model, and she still has a 75% chance to live each casting.

It's hugely likely considering the close-together nature of razorback lists and how many Purifiers could potentially be on the table via combat squadding (12 + Crowe).

Players who make mass purifiers 'their army' are going to become quite adept at geting max usage out of Cleansing Flame via combined assaults and multicharges.

sourclams wrote:It's hugely likely considering the close-together nature of razorback lists and how many Purifiers could potentially be on the table via combat squadding (12 + Crowe).

Players who make mass purifiers 'their army' are going to become quite adept at geting max usage out of Cleansing Flame via combined assaults and multicharges.

to combat squad there has to be 10 men in the squad. To get 12 combat squads you would need 60 purifiers, or 1560 points before any upgrades, razorbacks, HQs or rifleman dreads. 12 razorbacks with heavy bolters 540 points. Quickly getting beyond this army in terms of points. Anyway if the purifiers clump up that is what shattershard and liqifiers are for. AP3 flamers are not something 26point mech like to see when the clump.

Dash, would you recommend your list againts a Nid army?

DaKKaLAnce wrote:Dash, would you recommend your list againts a Nid army?

Almost ant decently put together DE list would work well vs Tyranids. Splinter weapons make MC fall...fast. Wyches are also great tarpit units with just about any wargear.

However, Dash, I like the list, my 1.250K is essentially this minus one squad of wyches and the trueborn.

Would you suggest adding on just trueborn in 1,500 points?

Interesting list. Pretty straight forward. I like it.

Best title for the thread though?

Sounds pretty Dark Eldary to me...

@Exergy: Haemonculi don't belong in close combat. Mine either stay in their transports or get out separately (outside 2" coherency) to put their weaponry to work.

@JGrand: In answer to your questions:
1. I despise the duke. Presuming that every stat and special rule contributes to a model's cost, the Duke is a misuse of points. The ability to deep-strike raiders is something a DE player should never do, and giving better poison weaponry to a squad isn't useful to any DE player who uses "Glass Cannon" or "The best defense is a good offense" strategy because splinter rifles are short range and require stacking in ablative wounds to make worthwhile. Paying the points to get that in a character whose sole real shining attribute is a random possibility to improve drugs (or make them worse) is IMHO a bad investment of points.
2. Wych weapons are give or take depending on point level. If I *do* use any, I use Hydra Gauntlets for the +D6 attacks. Even this list isn't a complete 2,000 point list - again, I'm not trying to provide a list for people to copy and implement, but rather an army theme to consider.
3. Crucible success: No, I haven't had a lot of success with it. Since I've started using it (In January 2009), its killed a Hive Tyrant, a couple of zoanthropes, a Rune Priest, a couple members of a PBS, an Eldar warlock, and it made Eldrad once reroll a failed leadership test. However, 40k is a game of odds, and for 20 points, the ability to potentially insta-gib an HQ or other psyker (in the old codex), or inflict massive damage in a good 3D6 range against multiple psykers is breathtaking. With Grey Knights coming and a HUGE assortment of people about to bandwagon onto them....I consider it a critical piece of wargear in a TAC list now more than ever.

@Sourclams: I don't know enough about GK yet to talk about specific tactics against them. When the codex is released, I'll do the same brainstorming with the same folks I always wargame new codexes out with.

@DevianID: Losing my wych raiders causing me to lose mobility is nothing new. Your misconceptions about what the "wrong targets" are in my army is the kind of tactical genius I like seeing in my opponents at the top tables of big events, and while you're free to relegate my army to whatever fluffy pile you like....my signature at the bottom includes my win record with my Dark Eldar. I think its 61-2. Most of those happened with my wych cult, with a brief intermission while I explored a kabal. There is only one person in the entire country who can say "I beat Dash's Wych cult." Dave Faye from California took me down during game 5 of a tournament, winning by one killpoint. He's an excellent player and tactician, but the fault was also mine. I was so drunk that we only got through 3 turns in 2.5 hours. I remember two weaponless, immobilized rhinos, a plague marine squad of one that was huddling on the ground trying to survive, and time running out. That said, that was one of my most fun experiences ever, and I don't begrudge him. =D

@Exergy/Sourclams: Whether I charge or shoot something depends completely on what's happening on the table. Cleansing Flame wounds any assaulting model on a 4+? In this case, I would weigh how many purifiers there were, how many wyches I had available to assault, how many pain tokens I had, and what my drugs were. As a vanilla scenario, 8 wyches take 4 wounds, make 2 saves, make 1 FNP, and take one casualty. Sure, I'll bite. In the last codex, I didn't even have plasma grenades, and generally was striking last, with smaller units, and without FNP.

@Sourclams: Purifiers aren't fleet, nor do they have open-topped assault vehicles. I don't see them getting a charge. Look through some of my batreps.

@DaKKaLAnce: Almost any themed DE list can terrorize tyranids. So yes, I'd recommend it. Splinter cannons are monstrously potent against tyranids of all sizes, and dark lances and blasters can eat MCs (or provide supporting wounds prior to wyches assaulting to pick up another pain token).




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pretre wrote:Interesting list. Pretty straight forward. I like it.

Best title for the thread though?

Yes. I was going to go with "....Wych Cults to Torture, Enslave, Sodomize, and Feast Upon the Souls of Inferior Races...." but it seemed a bit overlong.

I was more referring to sodomy on the main board, but whatevs.

I like the alternate title you gave better anyways.

Any chance of battle reports?

dashofpepper wrote:
1. I despise the duke. Presuming that every stat and special rule contributes to a model's cost, the Duke is a misuse of points.

I agree with your argument on The Duke's overall usefulness in this list, but this is a terrible argument against him. The real question is 'is the ability to reroll drugs worth xyz points' If it is worth it to you, then the other 'wasted' abilities shouldn't matter.

This is the kind of logic that causes people to take multimeltas in their SM squads when they take Vulkan so as not to 'waste' his ability.

calypso2ts wrote:

dashofpepper wrote:
1. I despise the duke. Presuming that every stat and special rule contributes to a model's cost, the Duke is a misuse of points.

I agree with your argument on The Duke's overall usefulness in this list, but this is a terrible argument against him. The real question is 'is the ability to reroll drugs worth xyz points' If it is worth it to you, then the other 'wasted' abilities shouldn't matter.

This is the kind of logic that causes people to take multimeltas in their SM squads when they take Vulkan so as not to 'waste' his ability.

No....no it is not.

Choosing not to use X because X costs too many points for what it offers is not the same logic as choosing to take Y and Z because you have X.

I might have misinterpreted your argument, I am responding to the idea that not using all a units abilities has an impact on whether you take the unit. (it should not)

If the unit provides enough utility to justify its place in your army, it does not matter what abilities are 'wasted' because their cost is 'built in.' In this case we agree that The Duke is overcosted for what he brings to a Wych Cult army (maybe because of those extra abilities but the why is irrelevant)

Believe it or not...Without ever seeing your list, I created literally the exact same thing, plus or minus a couple upgrads. It works wonders, and is IMO, the only way to go with DE.

Actually... That's not true. There's lots of tech to switch around, like chronoses, and maybe even a unit of Incubi for extra punch.

Haemonculis are probably one of our most valuable resources, and at 50 point each, it's basically a bargain no matter what points value you play at. I never use wyches without one. That first assault is just... awkward without FNP. Sure, they can do it, but FNP minimalizes casualties. Also, if the hammy dies, you can keep his token, which is great

Samus_aran115 wrote:Believe it or not...Without ever seeing your list, I created literally the exact same thing, plus or minus a couple upgrads.

Wait... You made a Wych Cult list with Ravagers? No WAI!

I mean, not to knock Dash, but it's pretty straightforward. Even he said it was just a conversion of his old list to the new codex. Does it look neat and effective? Sure. Breaking new ground in list design? Nope.


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DE should have the ability to sacrifice models for Pain tokens.

"Hello Mr Haemy. Thanks for the pain token... Hey look a Unicorn!"
*Squish*
"Oh, sorry, must have been just a normal horse."

Yeah, I know it's pretty simple. It works though.

I hate to say it, but DE are pretty boring. After a couple years, this is all you're going to see, and they'll end up like poor chaos marines. Yes, they have some fun units and some pretty good stuff, but none of those fun options are really...Effective. I've yet to experiment with Grotesques or taloses, but they don't seem to be worth the slot, when you can have trueborn (one of the best shooty units in the game, IMO) and ravagers (a strong, dirt cheap tank hunter with a 4+ invul).... Incubi are great, but again.... Would I rather have trueborn?

Fun lists are definitely possible with DE, and almost any combination of choices can seem fluffy (unlike Chaos Marines), which leaves plenty of room for less competitive players to build good lists.

So yeah, Pepper's list is straightforward and relatively simple, but it gets the job done, and it's pretty fluffy, so you can feel good playing it too

While I'm on a good DE thread... Is there ever any possible reason to take Bloodbrides? Or a Succubi, for that matter? Succubis can't take WWPs, and they don't add anything significant to assaults without being able to take GP and Clone fields...

Bloodbrides are pretty good, with the ability to take three Wych weapons per nine man unit with space for a hammy to spare... And double the attacks is nice... Plus, if you run a shooty troops section, they offer something nice. But I still don't think taking them over Trueborn is a good idea. I don't know

Samus_aran115 wrote:Yeah, I know it's pretty simple. It works though.

I hate to say it, but DE are pretty boring. After a couple years, this is all you're going to see, and they'll end up like poor chaos marines. Yes, they have some fun units and some pretty good stuff, but none of those fun options are really...Effective. I've yet to experiment with Grotesques or taloses, but they don't seem to be worth the slot, when you can have trueborn (one of the best shooty units in the game, IMO) and ravagers (a strong, dirt cheap tank hunter with a 4+ invul).... Incubi are great, but again.... Would I rather have trueborn?

Fun lists are definitely possible with DE, and almost any combination of choices can seem fluffy (unlike Chaos Marines), which leaves plenty of room for less competitive players to build good lists.

So yeah, Pepper's list is straightforward and relatively simple, but it gets the job done, and it's pretty fluffy, so you can feel good playing it too

While I'm on a good DE thread... Is there ever any possible reason to take Bloodbrides? Or a Succubi, for that matter? Succubis can't take WWPs, and they don't add anything significant to assaults without being able to take GP and Clone fields...

Bloodbrides are pretty good, with the ability to take three Wych weapons per nine man unit with space for a hammy to spare... And double the attacks is nice... Plus, if you run a shooty troops section, they offer something nice. But I still don't think taking them over Trueborn is a good idea. I don't know

Succubi are cheap close combat characters. 105 points gets you a WS 8, I8 wych with 6 agoniser attacks on the charge. Not a bad deal.

4+ invuls on your Ravagers? Was that a mistype or have you been playing it that way?

Also, a Succubus is 85 points with the agonizer. Oh my Succubus, how much do I love thee.