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Two quick questions that a friend and I had last night when using the new codex:

1) Can you use the 30" teleport shunt as a scout move?

2) When using the 30" teleport shunt from or into difficult terrain, do you take a dangerous terrain test?

Thanks in advance!

1) yes. the game has started by this point. Ref: you can use smoke launchers during scout moves
2) apparently not, as youre not moving as JI at this point. Weird.

1) What about the argument that shunting is not a normal move, you can only do a normal move as a scout move, therefore no shunt scout move?

2) That's what I thought as well, tbh. BUT, I can see the argument being made for taking tests as they are using their jump packs, just in a special way.

1) Shunting is normal for a teleporter. Same as TB is normal for a bike, and so on.

2) they are not "Moving as JI" - so they dont take the tests, RAW

Actually, per the rulebook the game doesn't start until after Scout moves. All three standard rulebook scenarios:

Deploy any infiltrators and make any scout moves.

Start the game!

If the shunt can be done "instead of moving normally" then any time you are able to move normally you could use your shunt move (don't have the codex to get the exact wording though).

As for DT, the rules don't say anything about "moving as JI" triggering, they actually say that you take the test if they "use their jump packs" to move. This may not have a hard definition, but considering you use the teleporter to do the 30" move, I'd say you have to take DT if triggered.

Yeah as it stands Nos is right on both counts the BA FaQ cleared up that once per game counts for during scout moves. Likewise currently the RaW of the shunt isn't a jump pack move so it wouldn't trigger a DT. However IF that gets FaQ'd I'd suggest the most likely response is that you do take a DT.

FlingitNow wrote:Yeah as it stands Nos is right on both counts the BA FaQ cleared up that once per game counts for during scout moves.

Smoke launchers, right? I dunno, still seems a little iffy to me.

Yep, they allow you to use Smoke Launchers, whcih are also "once per game", during Scout Moves.

just me being possibly ignorant..... but anytime a unit enters moves through or leaves difficult terrain, don't they test? its not dangerous terrain, but i also thought that if you deepstrike/disembark into Diff Terrain a dangerous terrain check was required?

and is the shunt not a teleport/deepstrike like move? (i havent read the dex so i dont know....im just asking)

"Units with personal teleporters are Jump Infantry. Once per game, they unit can elect to make a teleport shunt instead of moving. If making a teleport shunt, the unit immediately makes a move of up to 30" in any direction. This move cannot end on top of another unit or in impassible terrain, but ignores intervening unis, terrain, and so on. A unit that moves via a teleport shunt cannot assault the same turn, although it can shoot or run as normal. The unit counts as having moved."
pg28, Codex: Grey Knights

"Once per game, after completing its move, a vehicle with smoke launchers can trigger them (it doesn't matter how far it moved)."
pg62, BRB

"Q: Can a Baal Predator use smoke launchers during its Scout move?" (p36)
A: Yes."
pg2, Blood Angels FAQ 1.1 (Latest)

So, does this put to bed that argument about Shunt Scouting? The whole "the game starts after Scout moves" is moot thanks to the Blood Angels FAQ. And nowhere does it say what a "normal" move is, but given Turbo-Boosting is not a "normal" move (that being the standard 12" movement for Bikes), I figure that Shunting for a Scout move will be perfectly legal.

Also, I don't see anywhere in the Teleporters that specify it counts as moving like Jump Infantry, just moving. This doesn't seem to indicate one way or another, but I wouldn't think so until a FAQ says otherwise, simply because it doesn't say it does.

Darth - disembarking does not trigger a Dang test, just any difficult test (or dangerous if the ground is actually dangerous, for example dismebarking into a wrecked vehicle), and the shunt is NOT deepstrike.

In a permissive rule set, whenever you don't have a specific rule for something, you fall back on a less specific rule and apply that one. Somehow, ever since the GK codex became available, lots and lots of people seem to be under the impression that rules have to specifcly state whether they do nothing special. The solution offered then is to either panic and run around your gaming table waving your hands in the air, screaming for a FAQ, or pretend the rule crashes and shows a error pop-up telling you there is no way to solve the issue. Both are wrong. You do not need permission for applying less specific rules if there are no specific rules.

In this case, as it does not specify a special way of ending its move, it moves as any infantry/MC would. If he shunts into a mine field he takes a dangerous terrain test, if he ends up in a forest, he doesn't.

Jidmah wrote:
In this case, as it does not specify a special way of ending its move, it moves as any infantry/MC would. If he shunts into a mine field he takes a dangerous terrain test, if he ends up in a forest, he doesn't.

Unless said forest is on fire and infested by daemons.

Genius! Why didn't GW think of that?

Don't make me come over there and stomp all over you:
"Grey Knights threat all demons as dangerous terrain."

somerandomdude wrote:If the shunt can be done "instead of moving normally" then any time you are able to move normally you could use your shunt move (don't have the codex to get the exact wording though).

The whole "before the game starts" argument is a moot argument (and a pretty pedantic one at that).

The real reason shunt scouting can not be done is because it is not a normal move. It is, in fact, done "instead of moving". The "instead of moving" outlines it as a special ability that overrides your ability to move. This makes it a special and, therefore, not normal move. I don't think scout shunting is legal.

Except that is incorrect, as you can turboboost during a scout move. So, youre wrong there.

"normal" means "whatever is normal for that model" == "normal is to be able to shunt onc e per game"

em_en_oh_pee wrote:"Units with personal teleporters are Jump Infantry. Once per game, they unit can elect to make a teleport shunt instead of moving. If making a teleport shunt, the unit immediately makes a move of up to 30" in any direction. This move cannot end on top of another unit or in impassible terrain, but ignores intervening unis, terrain, and so on. A unit that moves via a teleport shunt cannot assault the same turn, although it can shoot or run as normal. The unit counts as having moved."
pg28, Codex: Grey Knights

"Once per game, after completing its move, a vehicle with smoke launchers can trigger them (it doesn't matter how far it moved)."
pg62, BRB

"Q: Can a Baal Predator use smoke launchers during its Scout move?" (p36)
A: Yes."
pg2, Blood Angels FAQ 1.1 (Latest)

So, does this put to bed that argument about Shunt Scouting? The whole "the game starts after Scout moves" is moot thanks to the Blood Angels FAQ. And nowhere does it say what a "normal" move is, but given Turbo-Boosting is not a "normal" move (that being the standard 12" movement for Bikes), I figure that Shunting for a Scout move will be perfectly legal.

Also, I don't see anywhere in the Teleporters that specify it counts as moving like Jump Infantry, just moving. This doesn't seem to indicate one way or another, but I wouldn't think so until a FAQ says otherwise, simply because it doesn't say it does.

That is all fine, but what about the part of "A unit that moves via a teleport shunt cannot assault the same turn, although it can shoot or run as normal. The unit counts as having moved." cause you can normally move and do all your stuff after scout moves. can they shunt and then move and assault on their turn if they start? even when thier own rule says they cant?

The scout move is not the first turn, so that isnt a problem is it?

Scout shunt up, first turn rolls round and it is no longer "the same turn"

Which is exactly the same as turbo-boosting and moving Flat-out in the Scout move, in both of those you may not shoot(or assault, or disembark). First turn rolls around and now you can move, Shoot, assault, Go-to ground, get pinned, etc.

Of course the Cover save for both of those only applies until your first turn, not after it(Scout-turbo-boosting when your enemy goes first grants you the cover save, Scout turbo-boosting when you go first does not; but it dioes allow you to reposition very well).

nosferatu1001 wrote:Except that is incorrect, as you can turboboost during a scout move. So, youre wrong there.

"normal" means "whatever is normal for that model" == "normal is to be able to shunt onc e per game"

Does turboboosting say "instead of moving"?

It is important because you use the shunt "instead of moving". This makes it not a normal move, but a special ability that puts you in a different location on the board with it own special rules (no dangerous terrain tests, can't assault). This makes it not a normal move and then can not be used in a scout move.

"instead of moving normally"

Shunting is still moving.

It doesn't, but scout tells you that the Big Guy "may make a normal move" (BRB pg. 76). If you can not use shunt on a normal move, when are you supposed to use it at all?

Jidmah wrote:It doesn't, but scout tells you that the Big Guy "may make a normal move" (BRB pg. 76). If you can not use shunt on a normal move, when are you supposed to use it at all?

You can use shunt during your movement phase "instead of a [normal] move". Scout rules specifically state that you can only use normal moves. Shunting is not a normal move, so shunting for your scout move is not legal.

edit: More clearly, if shunting was a normal move, there would be no reason to separate it from a normal move by saying you perform the action instead of the normal move. Clearly GW wanted shunting to not be counted as a normal move and not be used in scout moves.

Turboboosting is not a normal move.

You can turboboost in your scout phase. You can shunt in the scout phase.

You lack an actual rules argument.

ObiFett wrote:
edit: More clearly, if shunting was a normal move, there would be no reason to separate it from a normal move by saying you perform the action instead of the normal move. Clearly GW wanted shunting to not be counted as a normal move and not be used in scout moves.

If GW had a tighter rules set, written at the level of precision of language as a technical manual, I'd say you might be on to something.

But they don't, and every other thing that can normally be done in the movement phase can be done in the scout phase (including turbo boosting/SMF saves and smoke launchers) so to say that this one example of another new thing that can normally be done while moving is suddenly taboo seems horribly pedantic, no?

It's not even overpowered. If you take Dreadknights, you're giving up Dreadnoughts, which are one of the most effective selections in the codex.

But Turboboosting is a normal move. It is outlined in the rulebook as a type of move for all bikers. And it is even outlined in the movement section of the rulebook. I don't get how it can be any more normal than that.

However, Shunting is an ability that is done "instead of moving". That right there is a huge red flag. "Instead of" removes the action from the realm of normal moves. It is not an actual "move" by definition of the term in this wargame because it is done INSTEAD of moving.

sourclams wrote:
It's not even overpowered. If you take Dreadknights, you're giving up Dreadnoughts, which are one of the most effective selections in the codex.

Heh, you don't play Tau...

I think you are majorily incorrect Obifett.

Scout moving is for the most part a normal move for the unit. With shunting being able to be used instead of a normal move therefore it would only make sense that you could use shunt/tele during your scout movement phase because it would be replacing the scout normal movement with the shunt. Just makes sense once again, why people are freaking out about this subject and the whole codex in general makes no sense.

AnGeLsOfDeAtH wrote:I think you are majorily incorrect Obifett.

Scout moving is for the most part a normal move for the unit. With shunting being able to be used instead of a normal move therefore it would only make sense that you could use shunt/tele during your scout movement phase because it would be replacing the scout normal movement with the shunt. Just makes sense once again, why people are freaking out about this subject and the whole codex in general makes no sense.

Except that the rules for scout moves say you can only use normal moves. Shunting is not a normal move.

Shunting is not the normal mode of movement for the unit, but it IS a move they can normally make during the course of the game. It is therefore a normal move for them.

Turboboosting is NOT the normal mode of movement for the unit, b ut it IS a move they can normally make during the course of the game

In BOTH cases you can do this alternative move during the Scout movement.

You've made your mind up, and despite being shown the rules you dont seem to want to change it - so I'll bow here.

If you can show a RULE preventing it, do so.