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http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/StopMattWard/

As a result of the recent GK fluff I started this petition, deciding that enough's enough. I've put up with everything up to and including Necrons having a tea party with Blood Angels, but when he screwed over the Grey Knights I'd had enough, see here for further details on that:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/357650.page

Taking Gorgarak's advise I'm posting it here, we appreciate every signiture and hopefully something will be done about this, this time

It's more that the entire team allows that stuff. He's not the only one writing.

And the best way is to vote with your dollar. Don't buy the books or models.

I have never in my entire life see an internet petition amount to anything. But yes, it's not like Mat is solely responsible for the fluff in his books, I'm sure the codex writers don't work in total isolatement of each other.

Seems... interesting.... I don't support it though.

The Power Cosmic wrote:It's more that the entire team allows that stuff. He's not the only one writing.

And the best way is to vote with your dollar. Don't buy the books or models.

sadly he was the only one the wrote it. and the editor was himself.

The Power Cosmic wrote:

And the best way is to vote with your dollar. Don't buy the books or models.

THIS, THIS, THIS and more THIS. I see far too many people constantly crying about GW, then turning around and continuing to buy their products.

If youve truly had enough then just stop buying and playing their games. There are plenty of other mini games out there, GW is not the end-all be-all of gaming.

I still buy GW minis now and then because I really like some of them. As for actually playing the games...nope.

Mad4Minis wrote:

The Power Cosmic wrote:

And the best way is to vote with your dollar. Don't buy the books or models.

THIS, THIS, THIS and more THIS. I see far too many people constantly crying about GW, then turning around and continuing to buy their products.

If youve truly had enough then just stop buying and playing their games. There are plenty of other mini games out there, GW is not the end-all be-all of gaming.

I still buy GW minis now and then because I really like some of them. As for actually playing the games...nope.

We are moaning because it is a good game ruined by people like matt making rediculous armies and destroying 40k fluff because they are incompitent! we still buy from gw because it is a great game and therefore should get an opinion when someone it up.

As long as Matt Ward does not touch the horus hersey and the Adeptus Custodes I will be happy, and I won't hire a hitman to delete his facebook page.

taylor048 wrote:We are moaning because it is a good game ruined by people like matt making rediculous armies and destroying 40k fluff because they are incompitent!

Yes, how dare GW exercise creative control over their own fictional setting!

I don't think this petition goes far enough, to be honest. It's not enough to stop one writer. Every new piece of fluff GW wants to publish should be run past an approval committee made up of gamers experienced with all 5 editions of Warhammer 40K, and double-checked to ensure that it doesn't contradict previous fluff or in any way expand on anything that has been previously laid out in the background.

Enough of this 'adding depth' to the setting. Everybody knows that keeping everything exactly the same for all time is the only way to grow the hobby!



Or, just an idea... but maybe we could all just accept that it's a totally made up and not particularly serious setting for a game of toy soldiers, and find more important things to get all riled up about?

taylor048 wrote:

We are moaning because it is a good game ruined by people like matt making rediculous armies and destroying 40k fluff because they are incompitent! we still buy from gw because it is a great game and therefore should get an opinion when someone it up.

Really? Really? You are really making a fuss about someone being RIDICULOUS and INCOMPETENT while misspelling these words and not using punctuation? Gamers amaze me...

I love your Sarcasm. Its so beautiful

DAMN NINJA'D!

JHall wrote:

taylor048 wrote:

We are moaning because it is a good game ruined by people like matt making rediculous armies and destroying 40k fluff because they are incompitent! we still buy from gw because it is a great game and therefore should get an opinion when someone it up.

Really? Really? You are really making a fuss about someone being RIDICULOUS and INCOMPETENT while misspelling these words and not using punctuation? Gamers amaze me...

Wow man sorry for being dyslexic!!!

insaniak wrote:

taylor048 wrote:We are moaning because it is a good game ruined by people like matt making rediculous armies and destroying 40k fluff because they are incompitent!

Yes, how dare GW exercise creative control over their own fictional setting!

I don't think this petition goes far enough, to be honest. It's not enough to stop one writer. Every new piece of fluff GW wants to publish should be run past an approval committee made up of gamers experienced with all 5 editions of Warhammer 40K, and double-checked to ensure that it doesn't contradict previous fluff or in any way expand on anything that has been previously laid out in the background.

Enough of this 'adding depth' to the setting. Everybody knows that keeping everything exactly the same for all time is the only way to grow the hobby!



Or, just an idea... but maybe we could all just accept that it's a totally made up and not particularly serious setting for a game of toy soldiers, and find more important things to get all riled up about?

I think its perfectly reasonable to get riled up over his writing
It's terrible
Simple as that
For many of us, the background is what keeps us playing, the rules certainly aren't strong enough on their own to make people stay
Matt Ward not only writes terribly, but a majority of what he writes clashes with the internal cosistency of the universe as a whole

People can add things, look at Dark Eldar, essentially an additon to what was barebones and that was well received across the board
Matt Ward on the other hand writes things like the Blood Tides story or heroes like Draigo, which add nothing to the story and setting and instead cheapen it with acts of such sheer OTT which break the rules of the established setting so completely, that there is no point calling it 40k

You have characters killing hundreds of Orks as if they are no threat, yet Pre Heresy the Emperor nearly got killed by one, just to name a example
Every single character and story he writes cheapens the setting that its based on and its my most ardent hope that he either gets fired, or moved to a area where he can't harm the background anymore than he has

I don't think this petition will get anywhere either, but the guy HAS to be removed from where he is.

Asuron wrote:

insaniak wrote:

taylor048 wrote:We are moaning because it is a good game ruined by people like matt making rediculous armies and destroying 40k fluff because they are incompitent!

Yes, how dare GW exercise creative control over their own fictional setting!

I don't think this petition goes far enough, to be honest. It's not enough to stop one writer. Every new piece of fluff GW wants to publish should be run past an approval committee made up of gamers experienced with all 5 editions of Warhammer 40K, and double-checked to ensure that it doesn't contradict previous fluff or in any way expand on anything that has been previously laid out in the background.

Enough of this 'adding depth' to the setting. Everybody knows that keeping everything exactly the same for all time is the only way to grow the hobby!



Or, just an idea... but maybe we could all just accept that it's a totally made up and not particularly serious setting for a game of toy soldiers, and find more important things to get all riled up about?

I think its perfectly reasonable to get riled up over his writing
It's terrible
Simple as that
For many of us, the background is what keeps us playing, the rules certainly aren't strong enough on their own to make people stay
Matt Ward not only writes terribly, but a majority of what he writes clashes with the internal cosistency of the universe as a whole

People can add things, look at Dark Eldar, essentially an additon to what was barebones and that was well received across the board
Matt Ward on the other hand writes things like the Blood Tides story or heroes like Draigo, which add nothing to the story and setting and instead cheapen it with acts of such sheer OTT which break the rules of the established setting so completely, that there is no point calling it 40k

You have characters killing hundreds of Orks as if they are no threat, yet Pre Heresy the Emperor nearly got killed by one, just to name a example
Every single character and story he writes cheapens the setting that its based on and its my most ardent hope that he either gets fired, or moved to a area where he can't harm the background anymore than he has

I don't think this petition will get anywhere either, but the guy HAS to be removed from where he is.

I believe Auson is the voice of dakkadakka on this. Agreed anyone?

Asuron wrote:Matt Ward not only writes terribly, but a majority of what he writes clashes with the internal cosistency of the universe as a whole

No, it clashes with how certain people view the 'universe as a whole'...

GW have a very different view to their setting to that of some gamers.



This sort of petition seems to ignore the fact that none of GW's writers do their work in a vaccuum. I can just picture the meeting between the head of the design studio and GW's marketing guys, where they're all trying to figure out how this Matt Ward character manages to keep getting codexes published without them being approved...

GW, and more specifically the design studio, are the ones who establish just how the setting of Warhammer 40K fits together. So when it comes down to whether you think that something belongs in that setting, or someone in the design studio feels that it belongs in that setting, it's not really much of a contest. The studio is inherently in the right here, due to being the ones in charge of creating and maintaining that setting that they built.

This petition isn't very well written, personally I hate Matt Ward's work, its utter drivel at best I feel as though he takes an interesting and vast universe but tries to make it adhere more to the plot of an 80's superhero cartoon. However, I simply ignore it, the 40k universe is so vast you can just simply write your own fluff. Have fun with YOUR creations, demanding that an employee be fired for simply writing what he likes (although terrible) sounds a bit facist.

As for rules I am noticing a trend in these new releases and I think the marketing department is more to blame, I have a creeping suspicion that these OOT rules are penned simply to help move product, in 40k there is such a gap between old and new content that some players feel the need to update their armies for fear of dropping off the competitive spectrum, and then there are the bandwagon jumpers, who deserve to die.

/rant

Redemption wrote:I have never in my entire life see an internet petition amount to anything.

depends on the petition. a legally binding petition is a powerful tool in a democratic society. over 500k canadians signed the petition at stopthemeter.ca, and have forced parliament to intervene in the case of usage based billing.

insaniak wrote:I don't think this petition goes far enough, to be honest. It's not enough to stop one writer. Every new piece of fluff GW wants to publish should be run past an approval committee made up of gamers experienced with all 5 editions of Warhammer 40K, and double-checked to ensure that it doesn't contradict previous fluff or in any way expand on anything that has been previously laid out in the background.

Funny you should say that, because that's exactly what they do with BattleTech. They have a cadre of 'fact checkers', made up of play testers and freelance writers, and they specifically ensure consistency with all the products and try to weed out areas where the fluff has fallen down.

insaniak wrote:Enough of this 'adding depth' to the setting. Everybody knows that keeping everything exactly the same for all time is the only way to grow the hobby!

Really? You call the GK Codex fluff "adding depth" to the setting? I call it going from one shallow pool to another slightly different shallow pool.

Online petitions do eff-all. Best bet? Go to Games Day and tell it to his face.

Hit em where it hurts and don't buy the shiny new stuff.
On line petitions will not worry the shareholders.

Of course GW may add to and change the fluff and make new stuff up. But the real creativity and design comes from working within the parameters and being consistent within that framework. This is where I understand the vet GK players frustrations.

Making new stuff up that contradicts the existing concepts is only creative in a limited sense.

Online petition, yeah... that'll work.

Want to make GW listen, hit them in the wallet! Don't buy their stuff!

I love 40k. Hate the new GK fluff. Guess what? I'm not buying the book or the GK models. As a business, they only thing they listen to is either the ka-ching of the cash register getting that gamer money or the crickets of silence as their product gathers dust. Anything else is just the buzzing of gnats in their corporate ears.

Let your money do the talking instead of the "ooooh new SHINY must buy! Here's my money even though you put Matrix-mechs with babycarriers in the fluff and called them dreadknights!"

Only will sales numbers dictate whether Matt Ward is a viable author. If people buy his stuff and GW makes a profit, he'll stay. If the stuff tanks and gathers dust, believe me, they'll make him leave.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Hit em where it hurts and don't buy the shiny new stuff.
On line petitions will not worry the shareholders.

You bet your ass they will, but only if the petition is legitimate and the consequence of ignoring it is represented in dollars and cents by conspicuous financial consequence. That is, the peition has to be backed by conscientious consumers who are willing to talk with thier pocketbooks.

If the shareholders receive a hard copy of a petition with twenty thousand or more signatures on it (real signatures with real names-- not "orckilla83@hotmail.com"--saying "I spend XXX dollars on your product annually, and hereby retract my business until such time as X Y and Z issues are resolved") and see revenue drops commensurate with those numbers, you can bet the farm that they'll sit up and pay attention and Matt Ward will be hitting bricks before the week is out.

Hitting them in the pocketbook is great--but if the beancounters know where their losses are coming from, they'll pay attention and work to remedy the problem from the source indicated by the customers' dismay--don't kid yourself about that. Imagine that you own a restaurant. A considerable amount of customers from the cable company up the street who frequently use your restaurant for business meetings and lunch breaks make a formal written notice to you that unless you deal with Mary the waitress' attitude they will retract their business. Knowing, being a good business owner, that one lost customer is worth 15 lost customers by word of mouth, are you going to keep Mary and lose your best customers, or terminate/discipline/replace her and keep them?

Has anyone ever considered that changes in fluff indicate a grander shift in game as a whole?

I may be giving too much credit to people but what if they have plans, changing a few key bits here and there, allowing them to expand armies, add more fluff from new aliens, etc?

Just q quick question, but do we actually get any visitors to this site from GW that we could ask about why their fluff is filled with spikes and needles and other uncaringly cruel things?

Sign the on line petition by all means, it isn't an either/or option. The two actions are not mutually exclusive. But if people still go out and buy the products what is going to make them sit up and listen?

They already know what people think. Do they give a space orang-utan? Nah.
Because they know the adoring fans will still flock to feed on the new crop of corn.


Edit: actually I retract that about the petition
see post below.

Alternatively, don't buy them if you don't like them, try not to lynch anyone and restrain yourself from having a tantrum because something changed!

Things change. All the time. Some people can't handle it. Most people can.

It doesn't help that so many forum users seem to 'develop' their personal opinions based on what is popularly controversial, hyped-up with a complete lack of consistency in regards to real-life communities.

I'm not saying that everyone who uses forums and agrees with someone else is a bandwagoneer, but it's a disturbing phenomenon that's difficult to ignore. So Mat is the new Jervis. Or Gav. Or Phil. You might as well get over it now because everyone eventually will anyway, save for the usual snivelling basement wargame theorists.

Some of Australia's best tournament players have voiced their opinions to me immediately after reading the GK codex... and they all pretty much agreed that many of the units therein were extremely powerful. I haven't seen anyone in real life actually upset about it - probably because they hadn't played any real games with it. Last week I observed several games against MEQ armies that resulted in complete tablings of the GK's opposition, but on the other hand the players involved tended to do that anyway.

I agree that GKs are powerful - and they should be. I know that they are a hard counter to Daemons and Psykers - as they should also be. I disagree that Mat Ward should be 'stopped' - besides, the meteor already hit. It's like saying tsunamis are totally the suck and should be stopped. A little bit late to put up sandbags now, folks. I'm going to put on some sunglasses, and I recommend that you try to Deal With It, because one way or another you're (presuming you aren't a coward) going to play against GKs if you actually play Warhammer 40K.

Starting tomorrow (since I was at work today) I intend to get as many games in with my Daemons against as many GK players as possible, and I'll be damned if I'm going to blame the author of a wargaming supplement for my potentially losing any games. Besides, I'm of the firm opinion that if you can't enjoy losing a game, then you're only truly experiencing half of what wargaming can be!

...

Please, no one agree with me. You'll just invalidate my opinion.

From what I understand it is not so much any over powered cheese in the codex but more the fluff being screwed that has got up players noses, Arctik.

(Puts on Flame Retardant Suit) I don't mind Matt Ward's work. I like the new BA codex and the GK codex as well. It is nice to see a long time SM player like myself have an advantage after years of fighting Nids and Guard. Sorry, hate all you want, but sales are up at GW and it appears, despite the "fanboy" drama to be hitting thier niche consumer base right in the nose.

Shouldn't you all be blaming Alan Bligh? Isn't it his job to be the big fact checker at GW? I mean they're paying the man to go to work every day and read Black Library novels and codex fluff.

I remember an interview with Dan Abnett that Bligh actually gave him the go ahead for the 2 big twists in Legion (the horus heresy book) even though Dan though they were just to OTT for 40k.

The blame game.

If the petition had not been specifically asking GW to fire someone and been a more carefully thought out protest I would have considered signing.

To ask a company and to sack someone over this issue is at best immature and at worst a malicious personal attack.
Sleep deprivation dulled my thinking and I initially missed the implications. The OP title should be changed as I was under the impression the petition was to ask GW to stop messing with fluff.

I also apologise to Insaniak whose post now makes a lot of sense.
Still think the best way to influence any business is to vote with the wallet. Not my philosophy but that of campaigners of all persuassions, so ther might actually be something in it.

If Matt Ward was a child molestor/rapist/Facist git then by all means get rid.
Since afaik he is none of those things and merely written an army book not to ones' taste, then asking directly to sack him is just plain old not gonna happen.